The Wahoo KICKR is probably the most anticipated trainer to hit the market in quite a while, if not one of the most anticipated sports technology products for endurance athletes to hit the market. But, how does it live up to the promises and fanfare? Well, I’ve spent the last two months using it week in and week out. Every aspect of this trainer I’ve poked at or dove into. Heck, I even took parts of it apart (with wire cutters!).
In doing so, I’ve got a pretty good grasp on how the unit works, as well as all the details inside and out. Because I want to be transparent about my reviews, once my evaluation period with the Wahoo KICKR has elapsed, I send it back to them in the Atlanta. Simple as that. Sorta like hiking in wilderness trails – leave only footprints.
Lastly, at the end of the day keep in mind I’m just like any other regular triathlete out there. I write these reviews because I’m inherently a curious person with a technology background (my day job), and thus I try and be as complete as I can. But, if I’ve missed something or if you spot something that doesn’t quite jive – just let me know and I’ll be happy to get it all sorted out. Also, because the technology world constantly changes, I try and go back and update these reviews as new features and functionality are added – or if bugs are fixed.
Unboxing:
First, let’s get this thing unboxed. Twice.
Here’s the outer shipping box that the KICKR comes in. If you buy your KICKR via the interwebs, it’ll likely come in this box.
Inside the heavy-duty cardboard box, you’ll find the KICKR’s inner box.
Thus, if you buy your KICKR at a local bike shop, you’ll likely find it looking more like this:
From there you’ll crack open the outer shell and find the protective cardboard inside. Mine held up pretty well given the travelling it did. It first flew from Taipei to Las Vegas via UPS. Then, I dragged it across the Vegas CES show floor to my hotel (no easy feat for those familiar with Vegas). After that, I took it from Vegas to Houston to Paris via commercial airliner (checked luggage). And then finally, I dragged it again through the subways of Paris to my apartment. I’d imagine it should hold up pretty well in a mini-van ride home from the bike shop.
Below the cardboard is the KICKR, fully packaged up in plastic.
After removing the KICKR, you’ll find another small box and a manual.
Inside the small box is the power block. It’s 100-240v, with a replaceable US cable on it. As I’ll discuss later, the power block itself works just fine in Europe.
Then we’ve got the quick start guide. Though, I highly doubt you’ll need it after this post.
Below is a plastic clip for disc brakes on mountain bikes, to keep them from potentially becoming engaged while riding the trainer.
Thus, with all the pieces taken out of the box, here’s what you’ve got. The trainer, the power cord, a small manual and warranty statement, and then the little plastic doohickey.
All good?
Good.
Let’s take a quick tour of the unit before we dive into it.
First up to note is that you’ll unfold the legs for riding, allowing you to store it in smaller spaces. There’s a handle on the back to pick it up – it says ‘Crank it up’ on it.
The legs that fold out have these all-metal clips on them. They feel strong and I don’t suspect they’ll break.
As I’ll discuss in more detail in the next section, the trainer includes a cassette, which is pre-mounted onto the flywheel. It also includes the training skewer.
Down below, you’ll see a small round knob, along with a blue metal lever. This allows you to control the height of the KICKR. This is of use for different tire sizes, so the rider isn’t so high off the ground (perfect for The Girl with her 650 wheels).
Finally, note on the backside of the unit, the large flywheel isn’t ‘open’ like some trainers, rather closed. The entire flywheel does rotate though, including where you see those silver arrows (it rotates in that direction).
With the high level overview complete, lets start getting detailed.
Weight/Size Comparisons:
When it comes to size, the unit is definitely the heftiest of the bunch…by far. As in, put that kid on a diet and take away the marshmallows! Yes folks, that’s pounds below:
46 pounds in total (about 21kg)!
To put that in perspective, the CompuTrainer weighed in at 22 pounds, and the Tacx Genius at 25 pounds, and the LeMond Revolution at 34 pounds.
Now, I don’t think the weight is really a bad thing. Yes, beastly, but not bad. It’s stable, and that’s one of my most important trainer aspects. I HATE wobbly trainers. The weight likely comes from the components. The thing is made out of steel for all major components. Which means that it will hopefully last a long time. Where it does pose a slight problem is for those folks that may take trainers with them while travelling. Most airlines have a 50-pound weight limit for checked luggage (without additional fees), and this just sorta barely slides in under that.
When people talk about the CompuTrainer, there’s one thing they always say: “It’s build like a rock”, which is immediately followed by “I’ve had mine for 10 years, and it still keeps on ticking”. I think from a materials standpoint, the KICKR is in the same ballpark. Of course, time will be the true test.
From an electronics standpoint, having Bluetooth 4.0 and ANT+ in there should make it relatively future proof for a while. You can still connect modern smart-phones with legacy Bluetooth headsets from years ago, and thus I don’t see backwards compatibility being an issue anytime in the next 6-10 years.
Lastly…one final thing to touch on.
LeMond Revolution Pro this is not. It’s funny, a lot of folks have made observations that the Wahoo KICKR is simply a rip-off of the LeMond Revolution Pro Trainer. To help understand why that isn’t the case, let’s run through the main differences.
A) The LeMond trainer is wind-based, thus wind provides resistance. The Wahoo KICKR is electronic. No wind is used, nor emitted.
B) The LeMond trainer does not have resistance control. The Wahoo KICKR does. In other words, you can’t control the LeMond, you can control the KICKR.
C) The LeMond trainer uses private-ANT to communicate between itself and the PowerPilot head unit. Thus no connecting your ANT+ head unit (i.e. Garmin Edge 500) to the LeMond. The KICKR uses open-ANT+, and provides speed and power (and thus distance).
D) The LeMond does not have Bluetooth Smart (or any Bluetooth in it). The Wahoo KICKR does.
E) The LeMond trainer has no API or development aspects to it for 3rd parties. The Wahoo KICKR does.
F) The LeMond trainer does not have an adjustable height. The Wahoo KICKR does. Same goes for adjustable legs.
The point here isn’t to just be a bulleted list of things the LeMond trainer doesn’t do. Instead, juts to be clear on differences. And certainly, there are things the Wahoo KICKR doesn’t do. For example:
A) The Wahoo KICKR is relatively normal from a loudness standpoint. The LeMond trainer is 100db. Not so quiet.
B) The Wahoo KICKR weighs 46 pounds and eat kittens for breakfast. The LeMond trainer weighs a fraction of that.
C) The Wahoo KICKR has a sorta-mostly-realistic road feel. The LeMond Revolution has a very realistic road feel.
As you can see, the KICKR is no more compatible to the LeMond Revolution Pro than a mountain bike is comparable to a road bike. Yes, they both vaguely look the same from a distance, but that’s about where it ends. If you wanted to add up the things that are similar, it’d look roughly like this:
A) Both trainers use a cassette to attach your bike to them.
B) Both trainers have three legs
C) Both trainers have a big round thing on them.
D) Uhh..both trainers attach bikes to them? Umm, end of list.
The LeMond Revolution was actually based on a Russian Physicist design that Greg LeMond worked with in the 1980’s. He adapted it as part of the Revolution Pro. Again, both trainers have their markets, but it’s important that if you’re comparing the two on looks alone, then you’re likely missing the forest from the trees.
Hardware Setup:
During the next few sections I’m going to walk through using the trainer on a day to day basis, and then after that I’ll dive into some of the 3rd party apps.
Attaching your bicycle to the trainer:
First up, is getting the unit attached to your bicycle. To do so, you’ll be removing your rear wheel. It has no action in this game. Instead, the KICKR comes with a rear cassette that replaces the cassette on your rear wheel. This has both benefits and annoyances. From a benefits side you remove issues around rolling resistance of the wheel itself, as well as wear and tear on the wheel. Trainers are notorious for chewing up wheels (quite literally, leaving fine black dust everywhere). The downside though is that you have to take off your rear wheel and put it back on. Some bikes are easy, and others are a bit of a pain in the butt (such as my P3C). If it were me, I’d probably have preferred not removing my wheel – but that’s just a personal preference.
Once you’ve got your wheel removed, you’re going to go ahead and place it on the skewer that’s provided with the KICKR. I find it easiest to remove the skewer entirely and then thread the skewer in once your bike is on the cassette.
After that’s complete, ensure you tighten up the skewer.
Done, you’re ready to ride.
Now, if you have a smaller bike (or one with a different wheel size), you can also adjust the height of the trainer down along the bottom:
For example, when The Girl rides her bikes, I’ll sometimes remember to adjust it so that it’s lower to the ground for her.
If you haven’t yet plugged the trainer in, be sure to do that. The cable that comes with it plugs into a standard American outlet. But, it’s 100-240v, which means it works anywhere in the world with a simple $1-2 adapter. That’s how I use it over here in France.
In fact, if you want to get all fancy, you can simply change out the actual cable from the power block to the wall. Again, a couple dollars.
Ok, and the power cable plugs into the trainer at the bottom, under it.
With that, let’s start using it.
Software Setup:
Wahoo Fitness provides the Wahoo Fitness App on the iPhone/iPad platform, which is their fitness application that connects to the trainer and records data. This is the same application that also works outdoors while cycling or running. And, the same application that connects to both ANT+ devices (with the ANT+ adapter), as well as Bluetooth Smart devices (for compatible devices). The applications records your workout, as well as exports the data to any number of formats (i.e. CSV/TCX/etc…) and services (Training Peaks, Nike+, Garmin Connect, Strava, etc…).
After downloading the free app, you’ll be brought here:
Next up is pairing to your KICKR trainer. To do this, we’ll dive into the settings. It’s here we can pair any number of devices – from the KICKR to heart rate straps, to speed and cadence sensors. Note that I created a separate ‘profile’ for the trainer. I do this so that I can disable the GPS on it, and then not mess up my running or outdoor cycling settings with GPS on.
At any rate, within settings we’ll have a list of sensors we can pair with:
We’ll click to add a sensor, and then add a power meter sensor:
Once we do this, it’ll start searching for the Bluetooth Smart power meter device profile. In the event you happen to have a Stages Power Meter nearby, note that it would pick it up as well – so just be aware of which one you pair to.
Once that’s done (and it’ll only take a second), you’ll want to pair any other sensors you have. I recommend picking up the Wahoo Blue SC, since at this time the KICKR doesn’t provide cadence information. The Blue SC does, and will then keep everything Bluetooth Smart.
And finally, pair up a heart rate monitor if you have one:
Next is a REALLY important item, especially if you have the Blue SC. You’ll want to change the speed data to pull the speed data back to the KICKR. Otherwise it’ll pull from the BlueSC, which won’t have any speed data since you won’t have a magnet flying past the magnet since your wheel is off the bike.
And, while you’re at it, ensure that the cadence is coming from the combo sensor, and not from the KICKR.
Finally, you’ll want to scroll down in all the data pages that are offered and ensure the KICKR Training Page is enabled:
There are numerous training pages available to you, below is a quick gallery of them. My only complaint though is that at the end of the day I’d really much rather just customize these myself – like on most devices. Pick and choose them. Sorta like how I can do on the RFLKT. Instead, they are pre-canned and I have to live with whatever I was given, and on the pages they were set. Note when it says ‘Tap to Toggle mode’, it means that you can tap the page to then alternate through variations of that data from Current data (instant), to previous and current laps and averages.
Ok, with all the data pages out of the way, let’s get into controlling the KICKR.
Resistance Control:
The KICKR has four user accessible control modes. Each one of these modes controls the trainer in slightly different ways. All of these modes are found when you enabled the KICKR control page, and are just sub-sections of that page.
Level Mode:
In this mode, the KICKR has a simplified resistance level bands. From 0 to 9. These are somewhat abstract, and simply levels that Wahoo has effectively christened. Just like your stationary bike at the gym has random levels on it, these are sorta random too. But, if you just want an easy option for remembering what setting you had it on last – this is it. I prefer the other options.
Resistance Mode:
This mode simply controls the resistance of the brank unit – on a scale from 0 to 100%, with 100% being ‘full stop’. If you’re thinking of incline, that’s later on in a different mode.
Erg Mode:
Erg mode is without question my favorite, and where I spend the vast majority of my time. It’s simple, and potentially brutal. In this mode you simply specify an exact wattage, and the unit holds it. No messing around here. Input wattage, trainer responds, you hurt. Rinse, repeat. It’s how I do most of my workouts – based on set wattages. You utilize the +/- buttons to increase the digits that make-up the watts. In general, I find the KICKR will adjust it within 1-2 seconds. Enough that it doesn’t stop-you dead if you go from 100w to 400w.
As you’re riding, the unit will show you the target power (what it’s putting out) above, and then the actual recorded power below.
Sim Mode:
Last is ‘Sim Mode’ – short for simulation. In this mode, it allows you to simulate different settings based on not only slope and wind speed, but also rolling resistance. First though, you’d define a slope (i.e. hill), and then you’d define the wind speed (i.e. pain).
Then, you click on the ‘Bike Type’ setting and you can define the exact Coefficient of Rolling Resistance and Drag Coefficient of your setup (primarily your wheels).
I haven’t played with this particular setting too much – but the potential is pretty impressive. There’s plenty of apps and data sources out there today that allows you to pull in and specify this information. Which would primarily serve to better simulate the impact of your tires (and body drag) – given that the KICKR doesn’t otherwise include any of those forces in its equations.
General Wahoo Fitness App Items:
After you’re done riding, you’ll want to save your workout. Note that you can press pause at any time to stop recording. Also note that incoming calls/texts do not impact the KICKR from recording, it’ll continue to do so in the background. At the end of the workout after you’ve pressed stop, you’ll get this screen:
Upon saving you’ll get some workout summary details. This includes overall averages, as well as lap averages. I don’t find the lap averages page terribly useful, primarily due to the lack of power information on there.
From there, if you click the little icon in the upper right corner, it’ll allow you to save it out to various destinations that you’ve pre-configured. In my case, I’ve setup the unit to share to Training Peaks and Garmin Connect. Additionally, I can e-mail the workout files. E-mailing is great because it includes the files in a slew of common formats, that virtually any application on the planet can accept.
If you haven’t setup sharing ahead of time, fear not, the workout is still saved locally and you can share it later. You can pre-configure these sharing options though with a number of services. Below are the current services.
With that, you’re data is transmitted off to the service and you’re good to go.
You can see how I often feel that the best application out there for use on the iPhone and flexibility of the data is actually the default Wahoo App. I’m one who just wants the data in the formats I want it in, and care little about putting it in yet another app’s online site. Thus, this allows me to get it to Training Peaks or Garmin Connect (my two main dumping grounds for files), and not worry about it.
Note that the application supports user profile settings such as setting up heart rate zones, power zones, weight, and audio cues as well. You can see some of the zones information in my various screenshots above.
Trainer Feel:
A lot of people ask about ‘feel’ when talking about trainers. I’m a horrible person to ask about that. Perhaps because with the exception of the LeMond Revolution Pro, most trainers for me fall into two categories: Feels fine, or feels sucky. The Wahoo KICKR falls into the ‘feels fine’ category. Admittedly, at the upper end of that. The LeMond revolution is the only trainer that I say ‘Yes, I FEEL that!’.
I train so much in erg-mode, that ‘feel’ isn’t really part of the equation. Rather, providing consistent resistance is of more importance to me. Which isn’t to say I don’t value feel at all. It’s just that I personally don’t rank it high on my list of important items in a trainer. Rather, I prefer accuracy, durability, interoperability, and anything else ending with the letter ‘y’. Touch-feely does not count.
But, others who have ridden KICKR that do rate feel higher, do like the feel more than most trainers…for what it’s worth.
Noise Levels:
Noise levels across trainers are a funny duck. There are many aspects that impact noise, from cassettes to trainer tires to room flooring (i.e. wood vs carpet), to trainer mats and so on. The most important non-environmental factor across trainers is actually speed. Not wattage. I can keep the wattage at a set amount, and simply vary my speed (via gearing or cadence) to change the volume
I previously had done a sound test back in early January, comparing the KICKR to both the LeMond Revolution as well as the Kinetic Road Machine. In that test I used a few different benchmarks, though keeping the gearing and speed levels the same – resistance was the one variable. I generally went from low speed to high speed and just let it be.
This time, I decided to approach it slightly differently. Instead of focusing as much on a high-end speed, I’d just focus on a very common threshold – 200 watts at 20MPH. I kept my gearing exactly the same across all three units (well, you’ll see I had to gear down one ring on the Kinetic because I was too fast).
I then increased the speed to 30MPH, and then to 50MPH on both the KICKR and the CompuTrainer. The sole purpose of this was merely to make it as loud as possible.
Thus, in effect I’ve given you noise levels at ‘normal’ (20MPH), not-so-normal-but-perhaps-occasional (30MPH), and outright silly (50MPH).
Here’s the new video montage:
And, for those that don’t care about video, here’s the simple table.
Trainer
20MPH (200w)
30MPH (200w)
50MPH (200w)
Wahoo KICKR
68.7db
83.5db
86.1db
RacerMate CompuTrainer
69.7db
82.4db
85.8db
Kinetic Road Machine
70.0db
82.6db
N/A
I didn’t include the LeMond Revolution Pro this time, because honestly it’s like bringing a bull into a china shop. I’ve well established it’s incredibly loud at every level, well beyond these other trainers. Not even in the same city, let alone ballpark. And just repeating how much louder it is than the other ones seems silly. You can watch my previous video here on it.
Calibration:
The KICKR supports a calibration spin down method, which enables you to account for any resistance in the system, and/or environmental or manufacturing variations. In order to initiate the spin down, from within the Wahoo Fitness app you’ll simply select the little wheel icon from the upper right corner. You can trigger this at any time during a workout (before starting, during, paused), though I’d recommend you pause the workout so you don’t have a random data blob in the middle that doesn’t match the rest of your workout.
When you do so, you’ll see the button for ‘Calibrate KICKR’ – which will give you instructions to perform the spin down. In short, you’ll be going up to 23MPH, and then coasting until you see a notification (10MPH).
You can see the system will wait until you’ve reached the correct speed:
Then, as you coast down from 23MPH to 10MPH, it’ll
Finally, spin-down complete!
No specific calibration value is outputted during calibration – just a good to go!
3rd party apps also have access to the calibration API’s. And the API’s for 3rd party apps also provide more detailed feedback on the above calibration method (result feedback). And in fact, they have two options. The first is the roll-down like above. Different apps have implemented that different ways. You’ll see for example in Trainer Road that the upper left corner will say ‘Calib Ready’ when it’s prepared for a calibration:
The second method that apps have available to them is a zero-offset. This test is done with the unit at a stand-still (no pedaling). Today, to my knowledge no 3rd party apps have yet taken advantage of this functionality – though it is there. You can see this available in a non-public toolset that Wahoo has for testing, which will give identical results for 3rd party apps.
I’d expect to see this added in an app like Golden Cheetah, which caters to users that may have more desire to tinker. Wahoo believes that the current roll-down method is very accurate, and is their preferred method. In my testing, I’d agree with that assessment. It’s easy and straight-forward.
January 2016 Update Note: In addition to the spin-down type calibration, Wahoo now also offers a physical calibration tool. This is essentially a weight that’s used to calibrate your KICKR if you believe it’s out of whack. You can either buy this tool from them, or you can contact their support desk and they’ll loan it to you (though I think there is sometimes a waiting list).
Firmware Updates:
The Wahoo KICKR can receive over the air firmware updates via Bluetooth Smart. When a new firmware update is available, the Wahoo App will notify you of the update, and then redirect you over to the Wahoo Utility app, which performs the actual update:
The updater will first download the software package from the internet, and then apply the update.
I find the process usually takes a few minutes to complete. So I often just leave it sitting on the flywheel to update. I figure that gives it the best connectivity to the communications pod a few inches away.
Once complete it’ll ask you to unplug the KICKR trainer and then reset any KICKR apps that you may have had open. Overall a very painless process that I’ve done numerous times over the last two months.
January 2016 Notes: In addition to the main production Wahoo firmware updates, you can also get Wahoo KICKR beta firmware updates (such as FE-C), which can sometimes add new features ahead of release. These beta updates may last months. To access the beta updates, you’ll need the Wahoo Utility app, and then you can follow the steps in this short movie clip to access the beta firmware menu.
Power Accuracy:
I’ve spent a LOT of time riding the KICKR over the past two months. Tons of time. And if there’s nothing else that’s impressive, it’s aspects of the accuracy component. Now, I say ‘aspects’ because there are actually two pieces I look at when I’m talking about resistance controlling trainers. The first is how quickly the unit controls the resistance, and how it responds to your output. Remember, the trainer is designed to hold a given wattage in most circumstances – either directly or indirectly. Meaning it’s holding a specific value such as watts, or it’s holding a grade. You want to ensure that if its holding a wattage, that it can do that even when I dramatically change my output.
Take for example the Tacx Genius. This trainer had a very slow response to my sudden changes in wattage. Sometimes 10-15 seconds if I made a sudden jump, before it would pull the resistance unit back in to what it was set out. The CompuTrainer on the other hand, very quick, it doesn’t let you get out of line.
I found the KICKR more in line with the CompuTrainer. It kept the wattage right on-par, despite any fluctuations on my part. And within 1-2 seconds it would adapt to any major shifts. Significant wattage changes saw roughly the same ramp. I saw slightly more ramp when I was talking major shifts. For example, during a TrainerRoad workout that went from 155w to 465w, it took about 4-5 seconds for it to ramp up. This isn’t really a bad thing per se, as it means you don’t have the brick-wall syndrome (where it feels like you’ve just smacked a brick-wall), and thus it allows your legs to adapt to the change.
The second piece is accuracy against other power meters. Anytime I test against other power meters, there’s an aspect of ‘Who’s right?’. And honestly, I’m not here to answer that. And thankfully, in this case, I don’t really think there’s a reason to try and answer that. To put it into perspective, see below:
The two Edge 800’s are paired to the Quarq and Stages PM, while the iPhone is controlling the KICKR. The big iPhone number (200w) is wattage set-point. The small iPhone number (199w) is my current instant-power. On the Edge 800’s you see my 10-second power as the upper number (200w and 206w respectively), and the number directly below that is the 30s average (199w and 205w respectively). Cadence is also displayed, based on those units internal power-meter provided cadence sensors.
With the latest KICKR firmware late last week, they’ve resolved any outstanding beta bugs I was seeing, and things are very stable now – from low speed to high speed, as well as coasting. Previous beta drops (again now solved) had some issues with coasting where it didn’t account for it, thus skewing some of my numbers from those workouts for any time I was coasting (which was pretty rarely).
Here’s a workout I completed on the latest firmware, and you can see just how solid it tracked against both the Quarq:
From a power meter variability standpoint, here’s how things tracked. First, in raw watts. What you see is that post-calibration (at about the 600 marker), things are right on top of each other. Generally within 10w of variability, but often within just a couple watts.
Now where you see differences is those five spikes – or quick accelerations I did. The reason for the differences isn’t actually dramatic differences in power readings. Instead, it’s just inherent lag between data sets albeit synchronized).
That said, here’s what things look like from a percentage standpoint (I cut it off at 60-80% so you’d get more action on the graph):
Again, you’ll see the big jumps during the accelerations just due to tracking. If you look at the point after the calibration, things get remarkably stable. This was mostly a 10-minute relatively steady-state effort. Post-accelerations you see a bit more variability. This is partially the result of just the way that the Quarq reports power back having more variability in it – like most all power meters out there today. For fun, I picked a completely random 15-20 second snip (I really just scrolled a bunch and just stopped and copied a chunk of data. What you see there is that the KICKR has much less variability between data points, and thus you’ll see that more stable line.
You’ll note that all three are within 2.3% of each other. In the above, I went ahead and included the Stages data that I was capturing as well. Just for perspective on data frequency. I have specifically not included it in the other graphs as I’m still working with them on the a follow-up review, and I don’t want this to become another Stages PM review. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ll definitely post an update to that in the future. But I don’t have a timeframe for doing so.
On the KICKR front, obviously, because of a lack of rear-wheel, I cannot compare it with a PowerTap output – which would otherwise be on the rear wheel.
January 2016 Note: While my experience with the KICKR has been very solid on the accuracy front (on both my initial KICKR this review is based on, as well as the one I later purchased). However, some folks have seen power accuracy issues. It appears that early models (i.e. those in the first year), were very solid. Then somewhere along the way accuracy slipped. In early 2015, Wahoo added a person dedicated to accuracy testing of KICKR’s, as well as introduced a number of power accuracy improvements. These appear targeted at later-production KICKR’s that were having accuracy issues.
RFLKT Control:
At present, one cannot control the KICKR trainer using RFLKT. It is coming, but it’s just not there yet today. RFLKT today allows you to view information provided by your iPhone over a Bluetooth channel. Think of it as a remote display. 3rd party applications are being developed by various companies to take advantage of this. Effectively replacing a Garmin on your handlebars. Instead, app makes such as Strava would have connectivity to the RFLKT, and be able to display whatever they pleased on it.
You can and will however get data fields from KICKR presented to RFLKT. For example, I can pipe the wattage to the unit, and stop and start the training effort from the RFLKT.
Down the road, I’d like to see everything from being able to control wattage/resistance (basic) to starting a calibration routine. All this is relatively straightforward from a programming standpoint – it’s just a matter of where it stands on Wahoo’s internal development totem pole. And note that this would be controlled by either the Wahoo App, or another application (Wahoo or 3rd party). Meaning that the RFLKT wouldn’t directly control the Wahoo KICKR, but instead would pair to an phone or computer app, which in turn controls both. All of this control is done over Bluetooth Smart, as the current crop of RFLKT units do not have ANT+ within them.
ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart:
The KICKR is unique in that it’s the only trainer on the market today that is fully Bluetooth and ANT+ enabled. The unit contains the necessary hardware for communication to existing ANT+ devices (such as the Garmin Edge 500 or Forerunners), as well as Bluetooth Smart support for phone and tablet based devices.
Bluetooth Smart integration requires the use of a Bluetooth 4.0 device. Which means you have have an iPhone 4s or newer, or a 3rd generation iPad or newer. Additionally, at this stage the only Bluetooth Smart device support for these device profiles is on the Apple platform.
From the ANT+ side, the unit uses the ANT+ Bike Power Meter device profile to broadcast your current power and speed. This means it’s compatible with all current ANT+ power meter head units. For example, the Garmin FR310XT/FR910XT/Edge 500/Edge 510/Edge 705/Edge 800/Edge 810, all CycleOps Joule units and Joule GPS, Timex Global Trainer, Magellan Switch, and countless other apps. It will not at this time broadcast cadence though, so you’ll need to add an ANT+ cadence meter into the mix in order to get that on an ANT+ enabled device.
On the Bluetooth Smart side, it uses the standardized Bluetooth Smart Power Meter device profile to broadcast the same power and speed information. This means that it’s compatible with devices that support that device profile. At present, that’s only software apps, and no physical head units. The unit utilizes the same standard as the Kinetic inRide and Stages Power Meter, which are both based upon the agreed and ratified spec for Bluetooth Smart PM’s.
Finally, at this time (as of March 5th), Bluetooth Smart is currently the only way to control the resistance in the KICKR trainer. Meaning, you have to have a compatible Apple device (either phone/tablet/Mac) to control the unit. The next step is ANT+ control, which the Wahoo team is working away on. They expect it’ll be released to developers in the coming weeks (which I’ll talk about in a second).
At this point, support for Bluetooth Smart control on Windows simply isn’t on their radar. Instead, they’d leverage ANT+ support for that. On the Android side, Bluetooth Smart control will be coming, but it’s really in the hands of the handset manufactures right now, more than Wahoo (Wahoo is waiting on them). Samsung will be first, and HTC following that. The good news there is that the ANT+ support with a couple dollar OTG cable should largely get Android folks up and running quickly once the Wahoo ANT+ support is finalized.
Finally of note, is that CycleOps has committed to adding in the ANT+ Resistance Control spec to their trainers as well, as soon as it’s finalized by Wahoo Fitness. This is actually pretty significant, as in doing so it completely opens up their platform to the same level of 3rd party development that Wahoo will have (minus the Bluetooth Smart side for the moment). Further, I think it’ll hopefully pressure other companies to do the same (looking at you Tacx).
January 2016 Update: In 2015 many companies adopted the ANT+ FE-C standard for control of trainers from apps such as Zwift, TrainerRoad, and Kinomap (among many others). At this time, Wahoo is currently beta testing this for the KICKR & KICKR SNAP, which can be accessed via the beta firmware option (see the end of the Firmware Updates section above to access it.)
3rd Party Apps:
January 2016 Note: It’s really best to just see my trainer app guide (it’s massive), since everything posted below, while generally still correct, is rather outdated. Whereas my guide is huge and covers some 20 apps!
Perhaps the biggest single reason the KICKR is so different than other trainers is the open nature of it. Thus, I really wanted to dive into what some of the 3rd party apps are doing. Now, this section is a bit unique in that I’m not so much doing a deep-dive review on these apps. More just talking about what they do. Some of these apps are still in development, and some are complete (I’ll note which ones). And realistically, there’s a TON more apps in the pipeline by a lot of folks I’ve talked with. As these companies release apps I’ll add them in here. Sort of a gallery. Well, at least until there’s too many. Many of these companies are waiting for the ANT+ Resistance Control. In talking with Wahoo over the weekend, they hope to have this in developers hands in the next 1-2 weeks. After getting the units into your hands today, that’s their next big-ticket item to knock out.
Once that happens, it really opens the door to all of the PC apps, and apps that don’t have Bluetooth Smart in it. That’s because these apps can use the ANT+ USB adapter, as well as the existing Wahoo Fitness iPhone ANT+ adapter (for pre-iPhone 4s units).
But ultimately, I knew folks really wanted to hear what I had to say – so I wanted to go ahead get the review out the door, even if all the apps weren’t quite finished. As such, a huge thanks to all the developers below who I pestered endlessly to get me pre-release builds to be able to put this all together in time.
3rd Party Apps: Trainer Road:
TrainerRoad is one of the apps that is fully KICKR ready today (if you have a Mac, pending ANT+ support for Windows). In fact, it’s actually supported KICKR since all the way back in August at Eurobike. TrainerRoad is a subscription based app that’s available on Windows and PC’s (not on iPads/iPhones) that has a massive workout library and guides you through completing workouts with your data being recorded on the computer and then uploaded upon completion to a central web platform.
The first step that you’ll complete is to pair the computer to the KICKR. To do so you’ll simply click the ‘Pair’ button next to Wahoo KICKR, and it’ll find the trainer via Bluetooth Smart. This only takes a few seconds. Additionally, I’ve also paired in a Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate Strap as well as Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence sensor. TrainerRoad also lets you use existing ANT+ sensors you may have too. So if you have an ANT+ HR strap or sensor, you can mix and match with KICKR to get all your data.
TrainerRoad has a massive online workout database, and you can also create your own workouts for it as well. In my case, I just cracked open a quick workout and went to town.
TrainerRoad has the concept of target power – which is the power you should be attaining. In the case of KICKR, the software will automatically control the trainer to be that particular resistance/wattage. So in this case ,you can see that it’s currently set for 403w, and I’m achieving 404w. On the right side, you’ll see my heart rate (156bpm), and my cadence (83RPM). In the middle you’ve got my interval time, and time left in the interval.
Looking at the graphs, it’ll track that information as I go along throughout the workout.
Additionally, as you can see below, as I complete intervals it’ll automatically spit out summary information for each set. In this case my precision is at a bit of a disadvantage due to the slight ramp rate from 124w to 465w (in this case), thus it’s a bit lower than you’d probably have for a longer interval.
TrainerRoad has a pretty huge and loyal following, and is currently in their second season in the market.
About the only thing I’d love to see them integrate into this is support for RFLKT – primarily to control the workout resistance as required (and or pause/stop). Today you need access to a keyboard (or, to place your sweaty hands on your laptop/keyboard). This would seem to be a perfect use case for RFLKT.
The again, most every app I talk about here is a perfect use-case for RFLKT.
Note that TrainerRoad also supports videos like Sufferfest, which are synchronized to both the resistance and the video itself. I demo’d one of these in TrainerRoad as part of my Kinetic inRide Review, so you can check it out there.
3rd Party Apps: Kinomap:
Next up is Kinomap. Kinomap is different from the likes of TrainerRoad in that Kinomap’s focus is primarily on recreation of outdoor rides. They do this by providing a subscription service that includes unlimited use of a video library. That video library has GPS courses which are synchronized to it, which in turn control the KICKR trainer to feel like outdoors.
You’ll pair the Kinomap application to the KICKR, as well as any ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart sensors you have:
You can also specify resistance attributes as well as which format to show your speed/distance data in (such as MPH or KPH):
First up is picking out a course to ride.
There are courses on road, as well as off-road. Interestingly, because Kinomap can also be used for running and rowing, there are courses on water as well. I’d suggest you use the video filtering options to focus on cycling courses:
Once you’ve got the video selected you’ll ensure that your sensors are still paired:
At which point you’ll go ahead and start. Within the main Kinomap screen there are a few different views you can use. The video is pretty much always present, but the bottom half of the screen can be configured differently depending on whether you want to view a map, a dashboard of stats, or an elevation profile.
Once the video has started, you’ll be shown how far ahead or behind the video you are. As you can see in the above screenshot, you can select how the software reacts when you fall behind. It can stop and wait for you, or it can change the video rate.
Also of note is that the video can be seperately split out to an external display. You can see some of these options here.
To do so, you’ll need the little adapter if plugging into an HDMI source (like a TV). But this is ideal if you want to display things on a much bigger screen.
At the completion of your workout, you can upload your session details to a variety of sites, including Training Peaks.
If you’re most familiar with entertainment based suites like that of the CompuTrainer Real Course videos, or the Tacx videos, you’ll probably find yourself drawn to Kinomap. It’s a bit pricier than the other options, but the all-you-can-eat aspect of it is hugely appealing. The video quality is generally lower than the perfectly image-stabilized videos you’ll find by Tacx, but at the same price you’re not paying $30-$100US for each one.
Also note that you can indeed create your own videos with GPS data and upload them to the Kinomap service.
3rd Party Apps: iMobileIntervals
Next up is iMobileIntervals. This somewhat lesser known app joins the fray at a cheaper $5.99 – one-time purchase price. The app has long interfaced with Wahoo Fitness devices, and in fact was pretty much one of the very first apps to talk to the original Wahoo Fitness ANT+ adapter.
This app can be used to quickly and easy create and execute workouts with predefined interval times. Additionally, you can control the KICKR in a standard ERG mode as well (meaning, just control wattage on the fly). The first step is pairing to the KICKR trainer, which takes about one button press:
And just like that, you’re ready to begin.
When you first start out, you can load up previously saved workouts of your own, create a new workout, and pull one from a library of workouts.
The library can be sorted by category of workouts, as well as other attributes such as username. You can then publically save your workouts as well for others to use.
I went ahead and created my own workout. You can simply add warm-up and cool-down chunks, and then repeating intervals very quickly and easily.
As you can see from the timestamps, creating the below workout only took me about 1-2 minutes.
Once you’re done creating the workout, it’ll be time to complete the workout (it’ll save it for you as well). While executing the workout you can skip to different parts by simply using the music-style controls. This is useful (and unique) in the event you’re short on time and need to move into the next section. You can also specify a wattage offset in the event that you’re just not holding on anymore.
Last but not least, two items of note. First is that you can define and display TSS/NP/IF information within the app, and that you can pair to other ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart sensors. The app is interestingly enough the only app today to support the Wahoo RFLKT.
If you aren’t sure which apps you want to use with the KICKR today, the iMobileIntervals certainly is a good way to go – especially if you need an interim solution. Obviously, the graphics on it aren’t exactly the most visually stunning, but the functionality is there and works – which is what most folks are looking for. And for the price, it’s hard to beat.
3rd Party Apps: Golden Cheetah:
Next up is Golden Cheetah. Golden Cheetah is an opensource software suite primarily focused on cycling that has historically had its roots in the analytics side. A while back they added a training mode which enabled you to connect to and control some trainers (as well as get virtual power from other trainers with known power curves).
The latest beta builds of Golden Cheetah will shortly allow you to connect to and control the Wahoo KICKR. I got to play with some early previews of it, and will give you the quick rundown. At present, this will require a Mac, since ANT+ control isn’t there yet. But as soon as Wahoo releases ANT+ control, then the Golden Cheetah folks will add it in so that Windows users are also good to go.
First up is adding the Wahoo KICKR Trainer:
It’ll then go off and search for the trainer using the Bluetooth Smart within most recent Mac models. If you have an older Mac, you can simply pickup a $12 Bluetooth Smart USB adapter.
Once the device is found, you’ll go ahead and give it a name:
With the trainer added, we can start to control it.
Instead though, I’m going to create a workout. Golden Cheetah has two options here. The first is to pull workouts from the large online (and free) workout database ErgDB. The second is to simply create your own. In my case, I just created a quick demo one, that you can see below.
For this workout, I used predefined wattage steps – though I could have used % of FTP Wattage or gradient as well. Each chunk in the workout has a specific number of minutes assigned to it (which I supplied). As I’m building this, it’ll create a small graph of the workout as well.
These workouts can be saved locally, or published as well. If you save them locally, you can see how easy they are to edit:
Finally comes time to load up the workout, or to control the unit in a general resistance mode.
While controlling the unit your data will be displayed up on the top. In my case, my current KICKR power, my current KICKR speed, and distance information as well. Additionally, the app would normally display the assigned power level, and the steps within the workout would be overlaid onto the screen. I was running into a bit of a pre-beta bug, so it wasn’t showing up for me.
In addition to the raw data, I can also add in media files (such as movies) that can be display alongside my data – to make the trainer ride slightly more bearable. Once the workout has completed, it’s automatically saved into your workout history within Golden Cheetah. And from there you can easily export it out to numerous formats, or straight to services such as TrainingPeaks, Strava, RideWithGPS and more.
For many folks, the free Golden Cheetah may be the best bet if your looking for one-stop shopping around training and analysis all for the unbeatable price of…free.
3rd Party Apps: Strava Segments by Wahoo
Ok, this one isn’t exactly third party. It’s made by Wahoo. It’s just not released yet. And, there’s no specific timetable to release it. But, it’s cool enough that I wanted to give you a brief tour. I’ve previously shown off bits of it back at Eurobike and Interbike. But this time I had a bit more hands-on time with it.
The Segments app allows you to search out and load up any Strava Segment uploaded anywhere in the world. I simply enter in a city name and/or location, and then off I go.
By doing so, I’ll see the various segments available within that view. I can then zoom around the map (typical pinch/zoom) to look at a given segment. By doing so I’ll pull open the current Leaderboard for that segment, as well as a course profile. You’ll note it also has my best time listed (if I’ve raced that segment). Note that today even if you complete a segment on the KICKR, it’s not uploaded back into Strava. It’s purely separate on your own device.
I went ahead and I changed focus just down the road a few miles to my old neighborhood.
From there I found a suitable course that was short for the purposes of this demo:
The bonus was that it was downhill. 🙂 The second bonus was that my next-door neighbor was on the leaderboard. And thus, I planned to beat him.
You can see prior to me riding the course, if I switch the leaderboard stats over to ‘KICKR Trainer’, it’s empty. Also note that ‘Best time’ is empty too.
I should probably note that this is an iPad app, and does require an iPad that supports Bluetooth Smart (3rd generation and above).
The course takes a few seconds to load up, and then it’s ready to go. Once you start pedaling you’ll get 10 seconds. This is fair since in this particular example most riders would be coming from down a hill, versus a dead stop.
Here you can see me about 12 seconds into this effort. My wattage and current stat information is displayed against the current leader, in real-time. Additionally, it has a small dot showing where he and I are.
Obviously, had I not run a half-marathon 90 minutes prior, I probably would have had slightly more success in this venture.
But my goal was ultimately accomplished, and I beat my neighbor by 5 seconds. Good enough for me!
You’ll note that the KICKR Trainer category for this particular segment now has my best time on it. On a day I’m more fresh I’ll come back and take care of this…
For an unreleased app that was thrown together at the last minute before Eurobike, the functionality is incredibly cool and pretty engrossing. Hopefully Wahoo and Strava can work through any of the remaining items and get it published up to the App Store. Awesome stuff.
My DIY iPad Stand:
In case you’re wondering where that iPad and iPhone stand came from I used throughout the review, it’s actually one I built. I posted about it a while back. The whole thing cost $30 and is quick and easy DIY.
It allows me to mount not only the iPad onto it, but also the iPhone and various cycling units as I need to.
The full parts list (only a few parts) is available below as well:
(Note: There are a slew of mic stands out there, I selected this one primarily because it had a heavy round base that wasn’t shaped like a tripod – but was still small. I figured the tripod style ones would be easy to trip over.)
(Note: There are a gazillion iPhone bike mounts, the one I selected is kinda bulky, but it gets the job done. You can probably pick something more elegant…but it’ll likely cost ya. Similarly, you can use any bike mount that floats your boat for other phone types.)
Buyer’s Guide:
Each year I release a trainer buyers guide, which outlines all of my recommendations by price category. Rather than re-type that here, I’d recommend you hit up that post for all the details. You’ll find it here, full of more detail than you can shake a stick at!
Pros and Cons:
With that, here’s the pros and cons, updated as of January 2016 (most other sections of this review haven’t been updated since then, though, largely still apply).
Pros:
– Open platform, others can develop against it (now some 20+ apps that work with it).
– Just works factor (never have to futz around with it)
– Supports both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+
– Noise levels are compatible to other trainers, lower in some cases
– Pricing is about $500 cheaper than CompuTrainer or TACX Neo
– Pretty cool apps already coming out and available for it
Cons:
– Must remove rear wheel from bike
– Pretty darn heavy
– Some functionality does require 3rd party apps that is typically included (i.e. workout creator)
– While extremely rare, wireless interference can be an issue
– Some users have seen accuracy issues on units (this seems limited to a range of older units, though not the oldest, nor the newest)
Summary:
There’s no question in my mind that the Wahoo KICKR trainer has completely changed the trainer landscape. Partly because of the hardware, but more importantly because of the ability for 3rd party companies to develop software for it. As you’ve seen above, companies and organizations are already doing so (with more than 20 supporting the KICKR as of January 2016) – and at price points significantly lower than the high-priced multi-hundred dollar software suites that the market is currently locked into.
As a platform without 3rd party software, the KICKR is still reasonably strong. Yes, it does lack the massive software suites like that of the Tacx TTS suite. But it also lacks that software price tag of that suite. I believe the ability for you to ride your trainer with any app you want is far stronger than being locked into a given platform (note that Tacx also now allows 3rd party control too).
While my experience with the KICKR has been generally quite good, there are a handful of users over the past few years that have struggled with power accuracy issues. Wahoo says they’ve doubled down on testing efforts for these, and it appears that newer units aren’t having the issues that some units as of a year or two ago did (early units didn’t have issues either). Which, is pretty much the only complaint you’ll find against the Wahoo KICKR (though, certainly a valid one if you’re struggling with accuracy issues).
Lastly, the KICKR does face competition from the TACX NEO trainer as a high-end unit. The main differences between those two are around sound (the KICKR is far louder), as well as some control pieces using ANT+ FE-C (the KICKR currently has that in beta, NEO is released/production). Check out my larger trainer recommendations guide though, for how to decide which trainer might be right for you.
Found This Post Useful? Support The Site!
Hopefully you found this review useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
If you're shopping for the Wahoo Fitness KICKR V1/2013 or any other accessory items, please consider using the affiliate links below! As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. Even more, if you shop with TPC (The Pro's Closet), you'll save $40 on purchases over $200 with coupon code DCRAIN40! The Pro's Closet has been a long-time partner of the site here - including sponsoring videos like my cargo bike race, as well as just being an awesome Colorado-based company full of good humans. Check them out with the links below and the DCRAIN40 coupon!
Since the Wahoo Fitness KICKR V1/2013 is no longer sold, I recommend looking at Wahoo KICKR V5/2020:
The original trainer desk. They're awesome for stacking (more)
The original trainer desk. They're awesome for stacking up nutrition, phones, and extra things you need for that short or long trainer ride. It can hold a tablet up on edge too.
The headwind fan is one of those fans that's probably overpriced, but it's also just a really darn good fan. I know of nobody (including myself) that's bought one that's unhappy with it. Super strong and you can turn it on from your phone if you forget.
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
I use Apple TV for Zwift the vast majority of the time, but also just for watching YouTube/Netflix/etc on the trainer. The Apple TV remote sucks though. This $8 case fixes that, it's a silicone strap that makes it easy to grab, but also has a strap to easily place on the edge of your handlebars. Boom! Note: Not compatible with 2021 Apple TV Edition.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
Hi, I ‘m just looking for a new trainer , the wahoo KICKR would be perfect. The only thing that keeps me from buying one is the compatibility with Android. I have a Nexus 7 with Android 4.3 and really just Android devices. You are about to develop an Android interface . When this is done , I can then use the KICKR as with Apple, or do I have to cut back ?
That is correct, we are close to releasing a beta for Android 4.3 devices with Bluetooth 4.0, which includes the latest Nexus 7 (the older models don’t have BT 4.0). The app will allow full control over the KICKR, just like the Wahoo Fitness app for the iPhone.
Hi Ray,
Love the post and my kickr just arrived! I’m having a problem finding the kickr via GOlden Cheetah. I have the latest version (June 2013, 3.0). WHen I go to “add device wizard” the kicker isn’t there. Am I missing something, or do you have any insights? The other 3 options are there (Robot is also missing)
Will the combination iPad 2 / iPhone 4 plus the wahoo ant+ dongle be able to control the kickr in every aspect ? I.e. resistance etc. if not what is the cheapest solution ?
That setup will work great with the Wahoo Fitness app. The only thing to note is than you will need a device with Bluetooth 4.0 to update the firmware. The process takes about 2-3 minutes and the app for updating is free!
Ray
Another fantastic review, I am trying to purchase the trainer through your link but it seems as they aren’t selling it anymore.
anyway to purchase it and support the site?
In talking with Clever Training tonight they removed the listing due to lack of fulfillment of an outstanding order for KICKR’s from Wahoo Fitness. Clever Training decided to pull future KICKR sales until Wahoo would commit to fulfilling the previously placed order, in order to ensure nobody got in a spot where they couldn’t fulfill the product. Hopefully this will get sorted out in the coming days. Sorry for the trouble – and I greatly appreciate you supporting the site.
After studying the various comments I discover that in order to calibrate, update the firmware and to control the KICKR Bluetooth 4.0 iOS (greater than 4s and iPad 3) is a MUST. Since I have neither one and have just bought a KICKR I am VERY disappointed that I need to buy a phone now to make proper use of the KICKR. It should be clearly stated that BT 4.0 is needed to use the KICKR.
My KICKR came uncalibrated and locks up after 3-5 pedal rotations in order to do a spin down/calibration I need a iOS BT 4.0 device now!!! I hope there is.workaround ?
Sorry for the confusion, we are working on a full feature matrix for the website that should clear some things up.
The only feature you need a iOS BT4.0 device for is Firmware Updates, everything else can be done via a iOS device, Windows, OSX and soon Android.
If you are using a iOS device and a ANT+ dongle the best app to do a calibration/spindown is the WahooFitenss app, you can access the calibration via the quick settings cog on the workout page.
If you are using Windows/OSX then you could use TrainerRoad. You can access calibration from the device screen and from the bottom of the workout screen.
Let me know your setup and I can give you some more details.
I have both an iPhone 4 and an IPad 2 with the Wahoo Gym and Fitness Pack. Furthermore an Edge 500. I would like to control resistance with this setup. Is it possible (using the Wahoo Fitness App).
You can use the full selection of iOS apps to control (and do spindowns). You can check the KICKR website for a updated list, but right now thats the Wahoo Fitness app, iMobileIntervals and Kinomap.
You can use your Garmin to log workouts, but not control.
You will not be able to do firmware updates, firmware doesn’t come out that often, maybe you have a friend with a newer iOS device that you could borrow if we release something new in the future.
I’m now seriously thinking of buying a Kickr.
I’m based in the UK – has anyone bought one from the Apple UK store yet.
Also I have an iphone 3G – will I need to buy a new iphone to control the Kickr or can I do it via laptop and ANT usb stick?
Cheers
Not many iPhone apps still support the iPhone 3G. I think your best bet would be using your laptop with a ANT+ USB Key (Garmin or Suunto are both fine). You get a great selection of software as well.
You should receive an e-mail (if you haven’t yet already) this morning from Clever Training that your order will be fulfilled in the coming days. Yesterday Wahoo agreed to ship out the previously ordered KICKR’s. Thanks for the support!
I am the same boat with you all….looking like they will ship sometime next week.
Thank you Ray for all the great information day in and out. I am happy to support the site…
DC, Thanks for the follow-up. Received the email from Clever this morning with shipping info for next week. Now, if my IPad shows up at the same time, I’m all set. Great info on the site – love the reviews.
I just got a KICKR and am enjoying it. Something I am missing (or maybe don’t see in the existing information) is a way to have the KICKR change resistance based on heart rate. It’s got a great setting for doing that with ergs/watts, but I’m more of a novice biker and right now I’m focusing on building my ergs while maintaining in a heart rate zone. It’d be great if the KICKR had that option. Maybe I missed how to achieve that and if so a heads up would be great. Also, the blog descriptions of setup really helped. Thanks!
I just got my Kickr this week. I’m using an iPod Touch with ANT dongle and Wahoo Fitness app and have successfully paired up power, speed, cadence and heart rate. However, When I click on the wheel icon in workout to do a spindown calibration, there is no CALIBRATE KICKR button so I cannot calibrate. I have no Bluetooth 4 device. Help!
If the gear isn’t showing up, it likely means that the firmware on your KICKR isn’t the latest version. To update the firmware, you’ll need to get hold of an iOS device that has BT40 on it. You can download the Wahoo Utility App and it will walk you through the process, it just takes a couple of minutes. We’re working on adding the ability to update the firmware via BT on Android, but updating with ANT is something that we have not tackled.
DC and Crew, Thanks all for all the information above. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Computrainer and then stumbled across your blog and your spot-on reviews. I am now weighing the options.
One of the features on the Computrainer I liked but did not see mentioned above was the ability to look at left/right power and to be able to see a power curve throughout the pedal stroke. I believe Computrainer calls this “SpinScan.” Is there anything that can give that kind of visual information with any of the Kickr software? I did read all of the comments and didn’t see this question asked, although it was touched on in post #288 above.
No, this doesn’t exist on KICKR. And honestly, it’s really not as valuable as marketing might make it out to be. There’s a lot of talk lately with the introduction of left/right power meters and how much you really want to try and fix either left/right, or balance within the stroke (on a given side) – or, rather, just focus on getting stronger rather than chasing a number. In some cases folks are finding that by chasing something like pedal balance, they actually end up lowering overall wattage.
Wow DC, you are quick with the response! I am a Sufferlandrian, so it is good that the device is built strong so you can obtain optimal suffering. If the device doesn’t work, I’ll just put it in my jersey pocket for interval training.
I followed the above link to Clever Training but get the OOPS screen. Any idea when they will be available and is the coupon code above still valid? Sufferlandria is a poor nation, discounts are always appreciated.
The bearings are mechanically pressed, this makes them not very user serviceable. The nature of the bearing design makes them essentially “lifetime” bearings. They should never need replacing. If an issue arises, the big pulley can be replaced as a unit. We did have a few units with bad bearings in the first batch of KICKR’s. Because they were damaged during installation they failed within a few minutes of riding and became unusable quickly. Give us a shout at support if you think you’ve got an issue.
From reading the comments section, am I correct in understanding that if you don’t have a rear cassette that matches the 10 speed cassette on the KICKR, that you have to replace the cassette on the KICKR with the one on your bike or one that matches it? I have a 9 speed on my road bike and wouldn’t want to have to remove the cassette every time I wanted to ride the trainer.
Correct, if you have a 9 speed bike you would want to replace the cassette that comes with the KICKR with a 9 speed version, about $20 from most online bike shops.
Thanks Wahoo Murray. Before asking, I had looked for a FAQ on your Wahoo KICKR webpage. Even going to the Support link I wasn’t able to find a way to the page you just linked to. You might want to consider adding that link or a link to some sort of FAQ to the KICKR main page.
I should also thank DC Rainmaker for such a great review and recap of the different support software. I hope that someone, either DC Rainmaker, or Wahoo will maintain a page linking to all the future apps that get created for the KICKR. The potential for better and better apps coming out for the KICKR because of the open source nature of the platform is one of things that has me most excited about it.
Doh! Just checked again and I see that on the link you provided you have a section titled “What software and apps are available for the KICKR? ” so it looks like you are already maintaining a list of compatible software. Great!
I now have my IPad 2 connected via the Wahoo Ant+ dongle. I can see theKICKR. But using Fitness App it does not react to changes from ERG to SIM etc. it feels like it cannot receive control from the App. After a view rotations resistance gets higher like if were on the default level 2 setting. What could be the problem ? Firmware ?
It sounds like you need to update your firmware. This requires a Bluetooth 4.0 compatible device (iPhone 4S, 5, 5S, 5c; iPad 3rd gen, 4th gen, mini; iPod Touch 5th gen) and the Wahoo Utility app (free in the app store). Once you have the latest firmware version, you should have no issues controlling the KICKR via your iPad 2!
This is really an annoyance as I now need an IPhone to make the KICKR work at all. I need a workaround as I am not going to buy a new IPhone. People just don’t lend you their latest IPhone to download apps and do whatever …
Really sorry about the need to borrow an iDevice to get the firmware updated. We’re working hard on similar capability with Android, but it isn’t quite ready and it will initially be limited to a small subset of newer Android phones that have Bluetooth 4.0 and the latest Android v4.3 running on them.
The beta app does not have this ability. The firmware update will actually be done through a separate app called Wahoo Utility. Wahoo Utility, similar to the iOS version, will be an app that assesses basic sensor functionality pushes over-the-air firmware updates.
Those people who have bought the Kickr would you recommend it after owning it for a while? I’m based in the UK and it’s priced at roughly $1520 equivalent – good value for money?
cheers
It hooks up to the Windows8 computer via Bluetooth 4,0
Trainer Road and Peripedal both work nicely.
Trainer road seems to have more video integration.
Finally Cycleops has announced that subscriptions to their virtual training software are launching October 7th.
Taking the rear wheel off is a little annoying because of the rear derailleur fine tuning required when switching.
So, although I will be able to more accurately give an opinion in the springtime, right now it is thumbs up. Get one.
On Clever training, they were great, their shipping department did not know that UPS charges huge brokerage fees to collect sales tax at the Canadian border. Once they were told, they refunded me in the amount of the brokerage UPS charged me. Excellent customer service isn’t having no problems at all, it IS dealing with inevitable problems in an exceptional way. Clever training was exceptional.
Wahoo Fitness does not authorize discounts for the sale of any of its
products, and is no longer available on Clever Training. Wahoo
Fitness firmly believes that our products should be offered to all
customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers
and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly
with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail
customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as
product support from their local dealer.
You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.
We believe in supporting a great site like this – it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site.
thanks,
Chip
Edit from Ray as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!
I wanted to quickly catch folks up on a bit of a change going forward. As noted above, unfortunately Clever Training will no longer be carrying the Wahoo KICKR, or any other Wahoo Fitness products. This is due to an impasse with Wahoo Fitness regarding the DCR subscribers 10% coupon code that Clever Training offers to DCR subscribers (the 10% discount to you comes out of Clever Training’s profits, not Wahoo’s). Wahoo Fitness does not want to continue to permit Clever Training the offer for DCR readers and as such Clever Training will no longer carry Wahoo Fitness products.
As you all know I run this blog on reader support and appreciate all of you who purchase your products from my partners Amazon.com and Clever Training. Please note that Wahoo Fitness is the only organization that imposes such restrictions and thus hopefully Wahoo Fitness can reach an agreement in the future that enables KICKR’s and other products to once again be purchased through Clever Training.
Thanks for the support of the site, I appreciate it.
-Ray
Edit as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!
It was a tough choice for me between the kickr and the cycleops trainer. I picked the kickr based on how it felt when I tried it in person, as well as the perception of openness that wahoo used to have. This practice of minimum price fixing is not particularly legal in Canada. I also wonder what the dealer cost is to apple vs. the local bike shop they claim to be protecting. They have effectively shafted the guy that I would say put them on the map for credibility by refusing to supply clever training. I have a bad taste in my mouth about wahoo right now.
With this current price fixing strategy, it is much harder for me to forgive their growing pains regarding support when they rely on others for effective training software and only support hardware and firmware. (Other than the very basic wahoo software they have)
Even though I have paranoid suspicions that apple may be behind this, it is still ultimately wahoos choice.
I would respectfully suggest to other potential customers that they keep this unethical practice in mind when they decide upon which trainer to spend their hard earned cash.
I’ve been somewhat critical here of Wahoo at times, and believe in giving credit where credit is due. They’ve addressed every issue I’ve put in front of them, and seem to be making a solid effort on the service side.
As it comes to the “no discounting” policy, I think was need to put this in perspective. This is very, very common in the industry. Oakley, Cervelo, Garmin, CycleOps, Zipp and many other manufacturers do not allow coupons / discounts on their products (just see the bottom of any TriSports coupon email). This is hardly ‘unethical’, and simply represents a company’s philosophy about the pricing to their end customer.
I would not recommend considering that as a factor in deciding on the KICKR. It’s a great product.
So they expect effectively free advertising and product support through this site but don’t want to give anything back? They certainly have the right to do this but it definitely isn’t going to create good will with the site that has given them probably more support than any other. Yea, it leaves a bad taste. This isn’t the way to grow a company.
Just as a heads up, I’m happy to report that effective about an hour ago, Clever Training and Wahoo Fitness came to an agreement and the KICKR (and all other Wahoo Fitness items) are once again available for purchase through Clever Training. This not only supports the site, but you get all the benefits that comes with the Clever Training/DCR deal as well.
The applicable links/etc are hanging out at the bottom of this post in the usual place.
First of all, all of us from Wahoo want to apologize to Ray’s readers about the Clever Training communication. The KICKR is not available on Clever Training at this time. We apologize for any confusion around this matter and Wahoo is 100% responsible the communication surrounding Ray’s post above.
Second, Wahoo *really* wants to support this great site by providing’s Ray’s readers the opportunity to purchase from Clever Training. We have an open offer to Clever to purchase from us. Unfortunately, Clever will not sell Wahoo’s products unless they can discount and sell under the established retail price of $1099.
Given our need as a small company to build a network of independent bike dealers and local fitness shops, we need to maintain price stability in the market. We believe that Wahoo products should be offered to all customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as product support from their local dealer.
Wahoo is made up of 30 honest and hardworking people that are passionate about the products we make and the people who use them. We just celebrated our 4th anniversary as a company. We are just like you – tech and gear junkies – and we would read Ray’s blog regardless of making Wahoo products.
Our goal in life is to make more cool products for you to workout with. We need to grow to be a sustainable business in the long term and bring new products to market. Building an effective retail distribution network – both online and offline – is critical to the growth of Wahoo and achieving the ultimate goal of developing great new products.
Again, we believe in supporting a great site like this – it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site
Thanks,
The Wahoo Team
Note: You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.
I had to wait for 3 days for my bank to transfer funds so that I could buy a Kickr and now Clever Training is out of stock… again. Hey Wahoo Murray, can you send more their way?
I have to say I absolutely love the Wahoo Kickr. Go it working with Trainerroad which could not have been simpler and the workouts are amazing – there’s no room or time for slacking and you really get 100% out of the workouts. As someone who has been a great advocate for indoor training for almost 30 years this is by far and away the best platform I have found. Really looking forward to next season even though winter is still a few months away here in Canada.
For anyone who is in two minds whether to go with this product, it really is a simple decision – do you want to get the very most out of your workouts or not?
Wow–now I know why my order from Clever of the KICKR was delayed! It’s funny/sad to think that I might have gotten one of the last ones from Clever with the discount….
BTW, Clever did a good job of keeping me informed about the delay (even though I didn’t know why until now). Will definitely use them again for non-Wahoo products.
I’ve been debating with myself over ordering a Kickr for a while now. The price is high in the UK and sets it on a par with the Powerbeam pro plus Joule GPS. Like John Smith above, says, I was attracted as much by their philosophy of openness as by the product itself. Whilst a lot of companies do engage in establishing minimum prices and only selling through authorised dealers, it does reduce price competition. Whether it is legally anti-competitive or not is another matter, but I do know that Colnago have been challenged over this practice in Europe with reference to the Competition Act, and have effectively turned a blind eye to their frames/bikes being sold below their “minimum price.” Certainly it feels that a company I was previously attracted to through a perceived desire to shake up the market, is now operating in a similar manner to many of the bigger players.
Makes it a lot easier for me to decide on a purchase – now I will buy/or not buy solely on the product being offered and the price set, rather than buying into any particular business image/philosophy.
Anybody out there using the KICKR together with an Edge 810, ANT+ USB stick and PerfPro Studio? Having this setup I’m continuously receiving a “Power Sensor Error xxxx” on my 810 display. When switching over to my good old Edge 500 I don’t have such an error.
I had the same issue when I upgraded the Edge 810 firmware from 2.6 to 2.8. I downgraded to firmware 2.6 and I had no issue anymore. I can use my KICKR with TrainerRoad or veloreality on a Windows 7 & ant + system. I haven’t tried the firmware 2.7 but maybe the vector feature added in recent firmware could be the origin of the issue
I just got my Kickr in and am trying to figure out the most efficient way to gather the data. I have a Suunto Ambit 2 and a Garmin ANT+ HR strap. If I want to get HR data into the Wahoo app, will I have to get an ANT+ adapter for my iphone? Or is there some way to route in the HR data via the Kickr? Also, should my Ambit be able to get the speed data from the Kickr? In my first test it seemed like it did not. So right now I have figured out how to have either HR data (using Ambit) or speed (using Wahoo) but not both.
I don’t have a Suunto Ambit, but checked Ray’s handy review and it says that the Ambit does not currently support the power profile. The KICKR transmits Power and speed using the power profile, so you won’t be able to pick them up on the Ambit. We don’t currently read ANT HR with the KICKR, so you’ll need either an ANT dongle or a BT HRM to get HR into our App.
Just as one minor update – if you have the Ambit 2/2s, in that case it does support power from the KICKR via ANT+. It’s the Ambit 1 (aka just ‘Ambit’) that doesn’t support ANT+ power.
In other words, with your Ambit 2, you’ll be able to get power data and speed data from the KICKR.
And yes, if you want to get HR data, as Chip noted you’ll need the adapter or a Bluetooth Smart strap (which won’t work with your Ambit, as it’s only ANT+). Though, you could pickup the 4iiii’s Viiiiva strap – which broadcasts both concurrently. 🙂
Hi guys, thanks for the responses. I do, in fact, have the Ambit 2, not the original Ambit; so my watch does support the power profile. I will give it another try to see if it picks up the speed properly from the KICKR (my first test ride was brief and hurried). As long as I can get that to work then I wouldn’t see any need to go out and buy another strap or an ANT dongle. Will report back.
I am having Trainerroad and Kickr connectivity issues (old Mac laptop, so Ant+).
I originally had a Garmin USB1 stick and was advised to upgrade to a Suunto Movestick Mini USB2 stick due to TR/Kickr issues with USB1.
I used the Suunto USB stick yesterday and it worked somewhat seamlessly with TR (during the middle of the workout it stopped controlling load once, but a refresh of device connections mid ride fixed this). It then worked perfectly (erg mode) for the balance of the workout.
However when I came to use TR and Kickr this morning (exact same set-up), TR is advising ‘Kickr set load failed’. The erg mode is not engaging and the Kickr power is not matching the TR workouts.
I have the latest TR software and I believe my Kickr firmware is up to date. I cannot get TR to now control load in erg mode.
Hi Guys,
First off, thanks Ray for all your work. Best reviewer on the web without doubt.
Secondly, having soaked up all the reviews and comments on the kickr I still have the option of using Stages with an old Tacx Grand Excel I currently train on. As I don’t have a bike based power meter yet I just wonder whether the flexibility, ride quality and development potential of the Kickr is worth an extra £350 and no power outside?
Would much appreciate all and any opinions.
Cheers,
Martyn
In general I usually recommend a power meter over any resistance-controlled trainer – all other things being equal. No doubt the KICKR can assist greatly in improving performance, but ultimately I think having power for racing and outdoor training is more important – since ultimately (especially if you’re a long-course triathlete), being able to pace by power is a huge advantage.
Having troubles with signal dropping from the Kickr while using the Wahoo Fitness app on Ipad 4.
Anybody experiences similar issues and have some advice on what to do?
For example during recent ride the signal dropped on and off after about 15 minutes riding, and then disappeared completely.
Checked that firmware is updated and also calibrated the Kicker using the Wahoo app. Works fine with the Garmin Ant+ stick to the laptop, so only experiencing this while connected on Bluetooth.
Many thanks in advance.
Alf
You might reach out to the support.wahoofitness.com team to dig deep into what might be going on. The BT link to iPhone/iPads is usually rock solid. If you really tax the radio on the iPad it can be problematic, like streaming a Netflix movie into the Ipad on Wifi and using Airplay to send it to a TV while using BT to control the KICKR. The only other thing that I’ve seen is cheap BT headphones can cause pretty nasty interference sometimes. Hope that helps. The support guys may have other clues.
I have successfully updated with a loaner IPhone 4S.
A) which app is used best for doing the spindown calibration ?
B) I am using segments – but during a 16 min ride the grade drops consistently to 0% every 30-40 seconds or so. after that it has the the normale grade. The segemt I am riding against does not have the drop outs ? What could be the problem ?
C) I am using the KICKR with an SRAM X-O 9 speed derailleur. What is the best gear in order to avoid chain skipping ? Or should I get a 9 speed cassette .? If so which one ?
D) what is the difference btw segments and the strava app ?
E) how do I know which firmware I have and how can I find out when there are new firmware updates so I need to use the loaner 4S from my friend again..
A) Wahoo Utility is the easiest for just completing a spindown calibration (via the bluetooth connection), but if you’re using ANT+, you can simply use the Wahoo Fitness app. Pair to the KICKR just like you normally would and start a workout. In the upper right hand corner you should see a settings button that will drop down a menu with the spindown calibration button.
B) I’m not certain about this. Perhaps Wahoo Murray can chime in with some possible recommendations?
C) A 9-speed cassette is definitely the best option. The 9-speed chain will not work well on the 10-speed cassette and you won’t have the ability to shift! A cheap 9-speed cassette is all you need.
D) The Strava app is for uploading workout data (typically outdoor rides) and analyzing and comparing your performance on various “segments” that were included in your ride. The Segments app allows you to repeat those same “segments” indoors on your KICKR. You can race against your best time or against the KOM (king of the mountain) for each individual segment.
E) We will make a post on our facebook page and also the Wahoo Fitness blog. If you connect with a Bluetooth 4.0 device, both the Wahoo Fitness and Wahoo Utility apps will automatically check for any available updates and alert you if your KICKR is out of date. We will also likely post in the comments section of this blog.
Thanks to the rain in the midwest over the past week, I’ve had a good chance to get to know the trainer. I’m not certain, but I think I’ve run into a app issue running iOS7. I opened kinomaps, the segments app and the wahoo app on my ipad. I maybe had the iphone wahoo app running too. When I started riding, the power numbers felt way off. Like off in sweating like a pig to put out <100 watts. The resistance seemed to cycle up and down but it was never easy. After about 5 minutes, I had the idea to force close the apps that were running. After this, the power curve felt right and all was well. I'll see if this issue is repeatable, but I suspect that it will be.
As for the discount issue, life goes on. I would have bought from Clever without the discount. I would encourage them to keep the product and skip the discount. If they wanted to throw in a nominal gift instead of a discount, that would be a nice, but perhaps unnecessary, touch.
Since the Wahoo Fitness (and likely the others as well) is designed to run in the background, it does not “release” the connection to the KICKR. So it is likely that the apps are all competing for the same KICKR. The best way to avoid this, which you already discovered, is to just shut down the apps you are not using at that moment.
Great review. Many thanks. Interested in answer to Jared’s question as well. I have just got a Kickr and but havent yet got a speed/ cadence sensor. On the road I use my Suunto Ambit 1 for HR, speed etc. Should I get an ANT+ speed/cadence so I can use it outside as well? Also, I have the Suunto HR strap. Do I need a new one if HR info is going to feed into any devices or apps used with the Kickr?
Depending on the head unit you have, you can use either a Bluetooth 4.0 or ANT+ speed/cadence sensors outside. If you’re using a Garmin then an ANT+ sensor will work but you will need an ANT+ Key to pick it up on your iDevice (and possibly a lightning-to-30-pin adapter if you have a iPhone 5 or newer). If you’re planning on using your iPhone as a display outside, then a Bluetooth 4.0 Speed/Cadence sensor would be ideal (for iPhone 4s or newer).
If you have any questions about compatibility, our support team is the best! Let them know what sensors you are looking for and what devices you want it to be compatible with and they can get you straightened out!
Sorry that you are disappointed, the quality of elevation is one of the main reason the app was delayed nearly 12 months. GPS and even online lookup databases have VERY poor elevation data.
Strava has corrected many of popular Segments using data from Altimeters (Garmin 800′s) and these segments are very good. Popular climbs over mile are really good and Strava is continuing to scan and update the elevation data. Strava now has the best elevation database on the internet.
We also use 2 different types of filters on the elevation data, but unfortunately, like many before us have found these algorithms not always to be perfect and mostly work well in mountain environments.
We are continuing to work on improving the data and future version should give some greater control over the filter parameters so they can be manually tweaked for different use cases.
Thanks
Murray”
Hi Murray,
I ride long mountains all the time. The segments are nothing like the real thing. The problem with GPS data from Garmins and the like is that they are always correcting themselves and so a steady 5% gradient in the Maurienne Valley becomes a series of 8% ramps between flats. Unfortunately in Segments these seem to happen every few seconds requiring huge power variations – nothing like one needs when riding the real deal.
I’ve tried a number now, longer 10km climbs as well as short ones like Box Hill over here. Box Hill does not start out at 10% then go flat. If anything the KICKR seems to be too good at responding. Can I make a suggestion? A simple smoothing of the climbs to making gradient changes every 500m – or limited to 1% every 2 seconds would cure the problem and I wonder if this could be built into the Segments app and applied after the data has been downloaded from Strava.
This would make these long climbs more closely resemble the real thing in terms of ride feel. As it stands, most segments are fairly useless for training or for pleasure and I would caution buyers against getting a KICKR because Segments will form a large part of their training time.
On the plus side, the KICKR itself seems to be an excellent trainer and the feel is far more lifelike than the Tacx I have replaced. I just miss the accuracy of the Tacx RLV’s at the moment but hopefully you can think of a global fix for the Segments issues. I have to report that what you are saying in the quoted reply is certainly not my experience to date.
I experience the switch btw what seem to be correct gradients and 0%s in Segments. Is there any way to select/filter for good rides ? Ie. the ones that use barometric elevation data or have been corrected ? Or is there a list of the ones that work 🙂 ? It’s very relaxing to get a break every 20 sec. but realistic and negates the whole virtual training purpose…
THANK YOU DC for your incredible reviews. In awe of the depth and detail.
Quick question. Are you able to execute Critical Power testing (CP20) on the KICKR like one can using the CompuTrainer 3D Software? Assuming you can by uploading a Strava based course that is flat (0% grade) and throw down for 20 min and extrapolate from this ride, but needed to ask.
I am poised to get a KICKR if that is a possibility.
Thanks for your feedback as I am determined to create a fool proof system for my athletes when I test them. My CompuTrainer has failed me one too many times.
Lots of different ways you could execute a Critical Power / FTP test and it depends on your choice of software.
Most of the software packages have a build in FTP testing workout, they normally set the KICKR into a level mode (higher resistance at higher speeds) and record and calculate your FTP value.
For example, Trainer Road have 20min, 2x20min and 8min tests as well, you could also run a custom test if you like to do a particular type.
Question on ease or flexibility for two. My wife and I both take turns on a trainer. This includes swapping bikes pretty much every other day during the winter months on our old Cyclops. Want to upgrade this year to something nicer, more realistic and cooler.
– With Wahoo – when we swap bikes, is there a lot of recalibration that needs to occur? Is there any major ‘hassle’ that we should know about in doing this?
– Does the trainer have the ability to sync to 2 different I phone or devices easily – so that we can differentiate between one another?
– Any other concerns we should be wary of when buying for this type of application?
– The beauty of the wheel-off design means that the calibration holds true regardless of the bike you put on the KICKR. It’s not affected by tire pressure or roller tightness. Just throw the other bike on and ride!
– Yes! You can easily pair with two different phones, just be sure to shut down the app on one phone before opening the app on the other. The Bluetooth connection only allows for one phone at a time, but unless you’re using the KICKR with a tandem bike, that shouldn’t be an issue! If you are trying to sync two device at the same time, you can use the Wahoo ANT+ Key. Unlinke Bluetooth 4.0, ANT+ allows multiple devices to connect to the same sensor at once.
– Something to look out for is the drivetrain compatibility. Be sure that both of your bikes have the same number of gears on the cassette. It is relatively easy to swap out the cassette on the KICKR to match your bike, but would be a bit of a pain if this had to be done every time you were making the switch.
DC,
Do you know of any apps in the pipe that will allow us to ride any GPX file.
eg: grab the file of any ride you or anyone has ever ridden from my Garmin etc then upload it into an app to create the ride with the elevation data then just go ride it onthe KICKR.
A bit like the Segments app but for full rides rather than just the odd mile or 2 blast?
Yes, you can use the CycleOps Virtual Training suite to do that. It’s a bit clunky right now, but they’ve told me they’re working to close that gap. Right now you’ll need to use the desktop suite to upload the files, and then pull it down from the iPad app (or, the desktop suite). You can use the trial version of the desktop app, so you don’t have to pay to do that function.
I have a few issues going with the Wahoo/Trainer Road right now and not quite sure why. Randomly during a workout with TR the wattage will go to zero, the resistance will still be there, but overall still a bit irritating. This typically last anywhere from a few seconds up to 15 or so. My connection between my MacBook Pro and Wahoo is excellent/good during these instances. Any suggestion would be appreciated.
I suggest you contact TrainerRoad support directly, they will include us if they think we can help. This forum is not the best place for general tech support.
Include details about your computer, OS, ANT+ or BT, if using a USB stick, include what type and model version.
Also include any information of other devices in the system, eg Garmins
1. Cassette.
I read somewhere that the cassette delivered with the KICKR is 11-25, 10-speed.
The two bikes I have which I could use with the KICKR also have 10-speed, but one has a 11-28 Cassette and the other 12-32 cassette, obviously both with the appropriate chain length. Any problems to expect when I am going to use one of these bikes on the 11-25 cassette, e.g. with chain length? I don’t want to change the cassette each time or change the chain when I use the KICKR.
2. Mac/OSX
There are a number of IOS applications which support the KICKR but I haven’t seen a WAHOO iMac/OSX application yet for controlling the KICKR – e.g. for firmware updates. Is there one already available; if not when is it expected?
1) You shouldn’t have any issues at all. The only time you’d need to watch out for chain length issues would be if you’re bike has a cassette smaller than the KICKR’s (an 11-23 for example). There’s a slight possibility that your chain is a hair too long from the bike with the 12-32 but I doubt that will be the case. Even if the chain is too long, it will only be on the 11 tooth gear in your small ring up front and isn’t really worth worrying about.
2) TrainerRoad runs on a Mac or PC and you can also run some other PC software, like PerfPro Studio and PeriPedal, by running Parallels. However, at this point the only way to update the firmware on the KICKR is via an iOS device with Bluetooth 4.0. The capabilities for frimware updates via OSX are only available on the very latest machines and we have found that the connection is not as stable as it is on compatible iOS devices. We are working on Android support for the KICKR which will eventually include the ability to update the firmware.
Hi Kristof,
I am not DC, but would like to ask you a question as I am in the decision process of buying a new trainer – apart from the KICKR, the Bushido with TTS 4.0 is on my shortlist.
My question is: what are you missing in your current Bushido trainer or what problems are you facing which is making you think of replacing it with the KICKR?
Thank you, rgds
Dirk
‘Switching’ is a tough thing. I’m not sure I’d switch unless I could get a good resale rate on the Bushido.
But, if you’re starting fresh, then absolutely, go with KICKR.
The primary reason as Kristof noted is the buginess of the software (TTS). Then there’s the secondary aspects of dual ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart that the KICKR has.
Hi,
Further on the KICKR vs TACX Bushido – I have been looking into the software available for the trainers.
As a recreational cyclist I find virtual reality video/cycling important – I’d like to climb mountains as realistic as possible; I am living in NL, which is as flat as a pancake, except for some bridges and some irregularities in the pancake which some people designate as hills. Realistic climbing for me is an important selection criteria.
TACX – Based on what I’ve read on this and other forums, its fair to conclude that TTS3 is quite buggy, but I am under the impression that TTS4 has improved compared to its previous version if it comes to stability. Correct me if you feel I am wrong. Also local resellers in NL are confirming this asking them on this topic (they are not hiding that there were and are massive connection problems between the software and the trainer.)
If it is working, the VR video’s are of great quality, and those video’s available seem to have (quite) accurate elevation information in it, which I consider a plus.
The video’s are expensive (about 50 Euro each) – but if you have two or three, you can start climbing.
KICKR – the only VR solution for the KICKR I am aware of is the Kinomap trainer. I have been looking into this software by installing it on my iPad4, and looking at some video’s – I am very disappointed. I am not talking about the video quality (HD or not, or vibrations, but about aspects determining realistic climbing on the trainer as well as stability.)
1. The number of video’s is very limited. When I apply a bike filter on video > 5KM & “Approved” by Kinomap I got 18 video. Without approved 41. Am I missing something?
2. The application crashed 2 times during my 60 minutes (about) usage.
3. It happened 4 times that the video image froze just a few seconds after starting it up. Restarting the video “solved” it
4. Is the indicated speed realistic compared to the video?. Example video “sortie velo dans les alpes”: at 01:13 speed 20 KM/h, at 03:16 18 KM/h; doesn’t look realistic to me.
5. Elevation info in the video – AFAIK, this is very important for realistic climbing as this info is used for resistance control to the trainer. Example movie “Alpe d’Huez – Part 2”; (non-approved video). Elevation levels I noticed:
from 00:00 – 01:18 2,7%
from 01:18 – 01:50 10,0%
from 01:50 – 02:25 -8,5% (!!)
from 02:25 – 03:33 0,9%
from 03:33 – 03:50 10,0%
from 03:50 – 04:24 -6,1%
This is far from realistic.
Personally, I found kinomap very disappointing so far and kinomap is not really an alternative to TACX TTS4 despite the issues TACX may have as well. (only talking VR here).
In Netherlands there is quite a price gap between these two trainers. I am not sure if this is different elsewhere.
Bushido + TTS4 as a bundle about 800 – 850 euro.
KICKR 1199 euro.
This is minimum. Both solutions need some additional investments such as software for KICKR and a tube for TACX and..
Still doubting. Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Cheers.
Just a minor note based on your note. The second option is the CycleOps Virtual Trainer suite, which added KICKR support about two weeks ago. Details from my Eurobike post: link to dcrainmaker.com
I think you are going to see a lot more innovation in this area with the KICKR over the next 1-2 seasons. Just remember, you are looking for a longer term investment and with the KICKR you are getting a very open platform.
You also have a few other video options with Trainer Road, they support videos from EpicRIDE, 3LC, Sufferfest, EnduranceFilms and are also adding support for new videos.
Hi Dirk,
I read your comment and would like to react about the comparison you do between the Tacx software and our Kinomap Trainer application. Using the same order list you used:
1. We actually have hundreds of video recorded by the community. When you start the app, you arrive in the “Featured” videos: this is the default view with around 50 videos that we pick and update frequently. The filters you chose were applied to that selection only: if you want to search the whole DB, please select the other lists (Most viewed, popular, most recents,…) which are progressively picking in the whole DB. We just updated a few days ago the UI and your remark points out that we need to improve this particular point.
2. I understand your frustration while being on a ride to have the app crash: sorry about that… We receive Crittercism reports each time the app crashes though and we’re looking at them. Would you mind opening a ticket at support.kinomap.com to give us a few details about it (username and approx date/time of crash)?
3. We’ve never experienced this issue: maybe you can give details as well in the ticket about your setup (device, iOS version, etc). Thanks.
4. The speed displayed on the website is the actual one sent by the video maker which depends on the GPS accuracy of his camera or GPS logger. Sometimes the speed is not given by this device and is just recalculated based on the distance between 2 locations=> see 5 about GPS accuracy
5. That’s the “big problem” of GPS accuracy. The best videos for indoor training are of course the ones recorded in the mountain, where unfortunately, you can experience the “Canyon effect” and get inaccurate longitude/latitude/elevation. We already use geocoding services to use data from 3rd party companies given a location but still, if the GPS thinks you’re somewhere that is not where you actually are, the elevation service won’t help… That’s why we launched a few days ago the concept of “Approved videos”, which are videos whom we manually ckeck elevation data. Ray Maker made a post during Interbike about this. We currently have around 50 videos that we’ve processed and are opening the tool as a beta to our most active contributors (please apply!) and we’ll give this ability to any contributor eventually of course. We’ve processed the video you mention a few minutes ago.
We really suffer when comparing our user-generated videos with professional videos: that’s a completely different approach. Talking about price, in our case, you basically subscribe for 1 year of “all-you-can eat videos” for the price of 2 videos which makes a significant difference. And remember that you pay nothing at all if you just replay your own recorded videos.
Thanks a lot for the feedback and we’re working everyday to make our system better.
Hi, I have a small question. I bought a kickr with two sensors of wahoo (Blue HR and Blue SC). I use the software TrainerRoad THEREFORE with a PC and can not use the sensor. TR does not yet support Bluetooth 4.0 for Windows.
Can I use in addition to TrainerRoad the Wahoo Fitness app? Then I could use the sensor. Does it work or are there any problems with the power control of the Kickr?
You cannot pair a Bluetooth Smart sensor to two devices concurrently (streaming at same time). So you can’t stream the BT Smart to both apps at once. But then, Windows doesn’t support these standardized BT device profiles (Windows 8.1 does, but TR doesn’t there), so that’s a bit of a moot point. With the Wahoo app, you can absolutely use those sensors.
So, you could control the KICKR with either TR or Wahoo, and then those sensors can be sent to Wahoo.
I mean is it possible to control the kickr with trainer Road and make additional a record with the Wahoo app? Or are there problems because TrainerRoad and Wahoo app want to control the Power of the kickr same time? The kickr should be in lvlmode when TR starts.
First i Start TrainerRoad and begin to ride, Second i Start the Wahoo Fitness App on the Ipad and let record the run. I do that because of den Sensors which i only can use with wahoo app.
That does work just fine. I do exactly that because I keep up with my workouts in our App. When using the Wahoo App and TrainerRoad at the same time you do want to avoid going to the KICKR workout page in the Wahoo App because it will also send control commands at the same time and Trainer Road won’t be able to properly control the workout.
I just got a Kickr
I own IPAD 2 + Wahoo ANT Dongle
IPAD mini
MACBOOK AIR with BT4
Kickr detected via ANT and BT4
no update for my device
testing with Wahoo fitness app, Wahoo Utlity and traineroad (and some other):
i was able to connect device, but no power or speed is gained from kickr
(resistance mode inside app effectively control resistance of kickr (BT4 and ant), but no other signal from device)
I understand why you tell people to go to support as that is the best place to get issues resolved. Here is what I’d like to see…..after they go to support come back and lets us know what was resolved and how. Why?
In my case, and for others in my tri club, we are considering a purchase of Kickr and when we see the problems that are listed here with no reply/resolution it makes me wonder whether I should be a buyer. I realize it is extra work but it may make sense since DC’s website is usually the first place we all go to get the inside story on products we buy. Just one mans opinion but from a marketing point of view it makes sense.
Thanks for the feedback. We make it a goal to reply to any customer that post an issue or a question on this blog; however, we prefer to handle any issues directly through our support system to better track and stay on top of them. While the resolution may not have been posted publicly on Ray’s blog, we definitely take care of anyone who has a problem with their KICKR!
device is broken and I get a substitution from reseller (one call and problem is solved)
support from wahoo was present but not as fast as I Hope
substitution was faster the a replay from support!!! 🙁
I’m really interested in getting the Kickr primarily to use it in the ERG mode. When using the Kickr in the ERG mode, is there any good reason to shift gears on the bike? Since you can dial in the amount of resistance you want, could the bike be left in one gear for the entire workout?
I ask this because I’m considering just getting a dedicated bike/frame to put on a trainer that lacks anything I wouldn’t need while riding on the Kickr. So could I put a bike on it with a single front chainring, no front shifters, brakes, etc….
I took a Computrainer class last winter and they instructed us not to shift gears once the unit had been warm-up and calibrated and I thought the same might apply to the Kickr while in ERG mode.
There is not need to shift gears while using erg mode but there is no harm either. The difference between a high gear and a low gear is the amount of inertia stored in the flywheel. This results in a slightly different feeling (think climbing a hill at 300W vs riding on a flat road at 300W) but still the same power output!
You could certainly create a bike like that for the KICKR but this would loose a bit of the functionality in terms of riding courses.
Once the KICKR is calibrated, you can change gears, change riders, or change bikes without needing to re calibrate again. We only recommend recalibrating once every 2-3 weeks or after the trainer is transported.
Thanks Brad, that makes sense. I’m just trying to minimize transition time between riding on the road or getting set up to ride on the trainer. So I may think about getting a used, cheap bike to put on the trainer just for that purpose. I think as long as my contact points are set up the same way it shouldn’t make any difference.
Hi, I looked into the Wahoo Fitness app and noticed that this is an iPhone app and not an iPad app – I can run it on the iPad, however it is not optimized for iPad: it does not support (auto) rotate, nor does it take advantage of the bigger screen. Will there be an iPad optimized version in the near future?
Kind regards, Dirk
Apologies for a really stupid question,but I don’t understand how these units hold a specified wattage. Does ithe resistance adjust to your cadence/gearing?
Just a quick but BIG thank you for an incredibly helpful review and reference. I read your review both before and after I bought my KICKR. It helped me decide to buy it and also has helped me use it. I doubt I will ever be able to put up the kind of numbers you do, but it’s all an inspiration, nontheless! Thanks again!!
Hi, Today I bought a KICKR and am trying to get it running. I have a problem with the spindown procedure and am hoping that one of you can help me. The first procedure is to perform a spindown. The maximum speed I am able to reach is 12 – 13 mp/h on gear 50/12 – no way I cant get it to 22mp/h – In the shop on the demo trainer we did this several times and there it went flawlessly and it was way easier to get the desired speed.
I reinstalled all KICKR related iPad apps on my iPad4 (just to be sure). Power recycled the KICKR. no solution.
Please help. Thanks. Dick.
(I also submitted this to the Wahoo support forum a few hours ago).
Hi, just to let you know that I went back to the dealer, they confirmed it is a problem with the KICKR, classified it as a DOA and took it back in. Cheers. Dick
Ray, thanks for the great review. After originally having been interested in the Tacx Genius, I ended up buying the Kickr due in large part to your reviews of both machines and of course all the comments from users (good and bad). (Cycle Ops Pro-beam was a serious contender as well by the way.) The main factors that swayed me towards the Kickr though, were the open app platform (future potential), the “non-buggy” software for Ant+ and Bluetooth and all the commentary regarding the solid build quality of the Wahoo product. So now, after logging some serious miles on it, I have to say it’s an awesome machine! It has indeed lived up to the hype – my wife and I are truly loving it. However having said that, the reason we were originally interested in the Tacx platform was the idea of a fully immersive virtual experience, so as to keep us motivated throughout the winter months, and generally to make workouts more interesting and enjoyable. For now we’ve mainly been using Cycle Ops Virtual Training software which is pretty cool, (much like Strava, but you can upload your rides and post times against other riders.) But I think Tacx is on to something with the computerized virtual environment with steering control. The thing that really turned me off of it was the fact that there was no consequence for not steering, (as you referenced in your article). What’s the point really if you hit a wall, and the computer just self-corrects and keeps you going in the same direction and at the same speed? Why steer at all then? What I was picturing was a scenario where you could steer wherever you’d like within the virtual world, (a la Grand Theft Auto without the violence), turning down streets as you please or even venturing off-road if you wanted to, but with real consequences to whatever you decide to do. (i.e. if you hit a tree, you actually stop and have to deal with it – get yourself back on the road – or if you go off the road onto grass you’d have to pedal harder as the resistance would go up accordingly etc.). Also, the prospect of training with other riders from different places around the globe in say a “virtual peloton”, (where you would get actual (real) benefit from drafting behind other riders), via the net seems very appealing. So because of this, it would seem that a steering accessory would be a really cool adder to the Wahoo portfolio as long as the right software was there to support it. With an open platform for developers to dabble in, do you see Wahoo adding something like this to their product line? I would think though that it’s a case of, “if you build it, they will come” type-scenario, in that the steering mechanism would have to exist before a savvy developer could write the code for it. What are your thoughts on this? Have you had any comments/feedback/discussion with Wahoo Fitness on this potential?
I bought the KICKR this week. It’s fantastic. Really stable, and the weight (21kg) is massive which is a pro for me because that makes it stable. The inertia on the flywheel is just awesome, it feels like you’re riding a real bike. When you let the pressure go, it feels the same like on the road. When you run on a flat surface, it just keeps on running for a minute and when you’re going 300W uphill, it will stop in seconds. It’s just a fantastic product.
I made a connection with a ANT+ USB stick from Suunto on my laptop with Windows 8. It works without a hickup. Installation without CD or drivers, it just installs. Connection with KICKR, Garmin HR-strap en Garmin705 cadance/speed sensor without problems.
The only issue is that you can’t update the KICKR via PC. The reason for this is that you can’t make a bluetooth connection with the PC. I don’t no why because my laptop sees the KICKR. But there is no software yet to connect to the KICKR. Trainerroad can only connect via ANT+. It is not a problem, but it’s strange. Problem is that you can’t use your HR-strap and cadance from Wahoo with Bluetooth. Updates still to come I guess, not a no-buyer.
I use Trainerroad, the training options are really good. Measuring your threshold made me have a heartrate I didn’t have for 2 years. Guess I was cycling the past two years instead of training. With the 8 week training programs of Trainerroad I hope to give my threshold a boost into the next outdoor season.
I tried Virtual Trainer as well. It has potential, but I have some problems with the video quality. It’s just not really well and the graph on the bottom is the same resolution as the video, which makes it sometimes unreadable. Problems with codecs on the PC with video playback (those were video’s that weren’t checked yet by Cycleops but some tracks that were there for a year weren’t checked…… needs some attention) and some problems with tracks that didn’t smooth the gradient, resulting in 0% to 16% in a second and back to 0% again. So you have to edit those tracks again for yourself. Needs attention. The great thing about Virtual Trainer is that you can import your own .tcx files. That is great in my case. I’ve ridden a lot of mountains and hills in France, and it is really cool to ride those again with the support of Google Earth. So I will be back with Virtual Trainer. The cost of it is just rediculous for PC, it charges about 15 dollars a month, and I don’t want a year subscription with the issues it has now….
.
Overall, great trainer, great build quality. Still waiting for better connection between PC and trainer. Still waiting for better VR video’s with good height and grade measurement in Virtual Trainer. But the beginning is there and I am confident that third parties will create great software.
I’m in the market for a training and I’m seriously considering the KICKR. I have a Garmin head unit with ANT+ speed/cadence sensor, ANT+ HR monitor and will be adding a Garmin Vector power meter in the next week. Will the KICKR be able to provide speed, cadence, power and heart rate to my Garmin 510 given the current setup? Or will I need to but a WAHOO bluetooth device?
I’m in the market for a trainer and am considering the KICKR. I noticed that Wahoo monitors this forum closely. I have tried to call Wahoo several times at the phone number posted on the website 404-939-2447. I get a message saying “the voicemail has not been set-up”. I have also tried to email Wahoo several times and have not received a response?
Thanks for pointing this out. We’re troubleshooting the voice mail issue right now. Currently, our phone hours are limited to Tuesday 2-5, Thursday 10-2, and Friday 10-2 (EST). Also, if you were emailing over the weekend it is very possible that we have not caught up on our emails and had the chance to get back to you. If you give us a call now, you should be able to reach Megan until 5:00!
Ray et al. I recieved my kickr today and it doesn’t seem to be working correctly ;((. In erg mode after 1 or 2 revolutions it feels like the brake is 95-100% on. Has anyone had this happen? I can only get it to spin in Resistance mode and even then it feels like the power numbers are way too low for the effort/rpe. Feels like it should be 200w or higher and only reads like 100w. thanks in advance. I will be in contact with wahoo in the morning. Maybe i got a dud;(
Thanks for the detailed articles and comment follow-up Ray. I took the plunge on Wahoo’s website last night (even though I was not happy with how they nixed their relationship with Clever Training while other company’s are giving back 10% as store credit and that seems to be ok). Amazon is out of stock and Wahoo is currently throwing in a free cadence censor. My unit shipped this morning from Wahoo.
I received my KICKR yesterday and took immediate a spin on it. Setting it up it’s real simple and I must admit, it comes close riding a real bike on the road.
When comparing to my bushido, it makes more noise. It’s more a high whistle when reaching a speed of 30 kmh and above. On the bushido I never had that even when reaching speeds of 55 kmh.
Do someone have any advice in lowering that whistle sounds, since I have two kids that are sleeping above when I’m training in the garage.
If you are using it in ERG mode, put your bike in the granny gear. This will reduce the speed of the flywheel and thus reduce the noise. You can’t do much in the other modes.
Also the noise should reduce a little after you use it for a while.
Kristof did you get this fixed? After about a month of use mine just started acting similarly. In fact it fluctuates so much it is nearly impossible to ride depending on the training program. I have a support ticket submitted and I’m hoping to hear back tomorrow from Wahoo.
I bought a KICKR via the Apple store in Switzerland for 1,110 chf (900 EUR) with free delivery. Direct from Wahoo its priced at 1,200 EUR + postage and I would probably have had to pay importy duty. Probably saved 400 EUR or 45%. Probably the only example of Switzerland ever being cheaper for anything.
Have to say I was lucky enough to purchase one of the first KICKRs available and I’ve been delighted with it.
I’ve been using it ‘manually’ for months now but only just got around to linking it up with trainer road.com and The Sufferfest videos today. This evening I completed “The Hunted” with trainer road controlling my power output and keeping me in the correct power zones, perfectly synched with the video. Absolutely brilliant!!! I loved every sweat drenched second of it.
Thanks again to Ray for his brilliant reviews and advice 😉
Wahoo Mike – not trying to get into a debate because I understand the intent regarding baseline pricing and how that works. However, is Clever actually offering a lower price? I thought it was simply a discount akin to a 10% off coupon one can use. In other words, the price is set at the $1099 but they simply apply the coupon code against the product?
Secondly – if a local shop hands out 10% off discount coupons viable for a set of products in their store – would that be against the rules?
That’s the hard life of a early adopter. I also buyed the KICKR in Europe for 1199 euro’s. That’s about 1.600 dollars at this moment. They made a lot of money on me. But hey, I got the awesome KICKR.
I guess you can wait for half a year or a year and it will be priced about 900-1000 dollars. But life is short, and I wanted it now, just before the winter….. So I accepted it.
So it is OK for Performance Bicycle’s online store to give a 10% kickback on future orders and for Amazon to give a 5% rebate to Amazon or Chase card users, but not OK for Clever Training to give a 10% discount. Got it.
@Matthijs – I already own the KICKR, I did not get a discount and frankly I am not complaining or asking for myself. It is something called principle and I genuinely would like to understand. As @Shannon states below – policing it when there are coupons, 10% future discounts, 10% credit, 5% credit card cash back etc. when the Clever Training pricing is not different is something I do not understand. Let’s be clear – Wahoo has a legitimate concern about setting a base price and that is a common practice. What is not common is to somehow attempt to police things like coupon codes that can be used on multiple products.
Consider it this way – after some purchases from a store like Best Buy or Amazon, I receive a certificate or code that entitles me to $100 off a purchase of $500 or more. That has no impact on the actual price. If I purchase the KICKR for $1099, I am simply using that. The same is said for using a credit card with 5% cash back. I am paying the price and getting it back. The Clever Training is like a coupon code.
We have not even gotten into associates/ link marketing type accounts like the links on DCR to NewEgg or Amazon where the site gets a % back. Why? Because they drove the traffic. There is nearly no way it makes sense to police it or thwart it where even sites that sell Apple products (where there are very strict base line prices) do the same thing. It is marketing they do for their business.
Ok, I read your comment. But it looks like this business with coupons, 10% future discounts, 10% credit, 5% credit card cash back is way WAY ahead in the US compared to the EU. We don’t have these things. I don’t no why. But I understand your questions to Wahoo now in your situation.
I’m having a real issue with my new kickr. Can anyone help.
I’ve contacted wahoo and not yet received a response.
I’ve done all of the spin downs etc, and am synced to an iPad 3
I am using the segments app and have also tried kinomap
My problem is that whenever I push any strong power through the pedals ( anything over 250 watts) the drive belt, or something internally is causing the pedals to slip and jump.
It is not the fitting to the frame, nor is the chain slipping
There is something going on internally .
Has anyone else had a similar issue ? And if so is there anything I can do to fix it or is it a warranty return issue.
It does sound like something is up, When did you send the support ticket? We don’t have anyone available to handle requests like this over the weekend, its a question for our specialist support. Brad will probably get back to you Monday.
Hey Russ.
I had the same issue but it was over 500 watts.
Easily fixed with a couple of hex keys.
On the drive side there is a triangular plastic cover which has a hole in it, if you look through the hole you will see a hex bolt just loosen it a touch. the on the top of the same cover just below where the belt comes out to go over the main pulley you will see another hole very small. Inside is a small hex bolt tighten this a touch which tensions the belt then tighten the large hex bolt on the side to hold the tensioner job done.
I’d suggest doing this with the Wahoo app open on erg mode 1/4 turn at a time until it no longer slips and you can produce no more power. I’m good now up to 700 watts with no slippage and I cant push any harder so Im happy.
I am having the same issue. It has taken me a while to get my whole setup complete. Today while trying the San Francisco tour, with Cycleops Virtual training I was getting what felt like belt slippage going up the steepish hills at the start. It does not feel like chain slippage. It feels a bit softer. I am wondering if Wahoo could comment on how to adjust the belt in the event this occurs. Should we just gradually increase the tension as mentioned above? We all end up tinkering with our bikes and I suspect this not very different.
Also, my LBS whats to know who the Canadian distributor is and how he can resell these. (At my urging.) Once my slipping is fixed I plan to bring the whole setup to his training studio so he and a few others can check it out.
You are correct. Just slowly increase belt tension and test. We have since tightened up our allowable tolerances for belt tension after seeing a few that were a bit loose. Here’s a video showing the process for adjusting belt tension: link to dropbox.com
Your LBS can reach out to Norco (Live to Play Sports) for the KICKR.
I see that strava have added indoor training videos to their premium service. I’m thinking of paying for premium but wonder if my kickr is compatible with it ? Can I link my kickr to strava , watch the training videos and then upload the ride to strava. It would be great if I could as I use strava all the time when out on my road bike. Thanks
I’m getting a Wahoo KICKR, and want to make sure I have the required accessories. I already have a Garmin Edge 800, and I’m assuming I can use the Garmin Ant+ heart rate chest strap and the Garmin speed/cadence sensor (for cadence) with the Wahoo? I also plan to use either an iPad 1 or 2 with Kinomap Trainer. Do I need to have the Wahoo Ant+ Key to use the iPads? Thanks –
For the iPad 1 or 2 you will need the ANT+ key to connect to the KICKR as well as your Garmin Speed/Cadence and HR Monitor. Please be aware that in order to do a firmware update you will need to have a device with Bluetooth 4.0 (the iPad 1 and 2 don’t have this). The update takes a few minutes and can be done on any BT4.0 iDevice via our free Wahoo Utility app so it’s as easy as borrowing a friends iPad 3 or newer or iPhone 4s or newer!
Loving the look of the Kickr and about convinced its worth the outlay for what I need.
Question I have relates to my bike. Do folks recommend using your race bike or a second/winter bike. I guess the question is does use on the Kickr in anyway damage my lovely new carbon steed??
You won’t do any damage to your baby on the KICKR. I believe its important to use the trainer with your primary bike, this ensures you are doing your workouts in the same position that you will be cycling outside.
Just started using the kickr and was wondering if anyone had to adjust their rear derailer? My gears are not jumping but i feel like something is grinding. (It doesn’t sound right) I did the calibration spin down and everything worked but it just doesn’t seem fulid.
I have sram red groupo and wouldn’t think the shimano cassette would make a difference.
Sometimes a slight adjustment of the barrel adjuster can help quiet things down. It’s likely that your shifting is just slightly out of line compared to your wheels. While Sram and Shimano cassettes can be interchanged just fine in terms of performance, it has been reported that the Shimano cassette running a Sram chain can be a little bit louder.
I’ve just taken delivery of my Kickr and on first use I’m very concerned about the amount of stress placed on the frame. Murray, I’d like to see some detail on the testing carried out if possible? I’m on the cusp of sending the thing back and going for the roller option as this will better mimic the forces experienced during road riding.
I really wouldn’t worry about it. There’s never been any legit/real issue with frame stress and trainers. There’s been a few random magazine articles worrying about frame stress from trainers – but none of which have ever substantiated anything, nor ever given a single example of a frame issue where a manuf came back and said that’s a bad idea. It’s a bit of the rumor that won’t die.
If this was indeed an issue that bike companies were worried about – you’d certainly not see Pro teams riding outside their trailers with sponsored bikes on sponsored trainers.
They say to avoid out of the saddle rides. Which honestly has more to do with you falling off the trainer (raising center of balance significantly) than it does anything else.
I too had my carbon baby on it for a while but got so concerned about the frame flex that I went out and bought a cheap bike with a shimano compact chainset to put on it. Now I can proper hit it without fear of damaging my carbon (whether it would or wouldn’t) I now have piece of mind.
The down side is my roadie is a compact 50/34 – 11/28 10spd
My cheapie is 50/34 – 25/12 8spd can be a little hard trying to get up Alpe d’Huez in 34/25 On VirtualTraining!!! In fact its a killer!! lol
All good fun though … loving it big style 🙂
Hi Ray – Great review! Now that I have read all of your reviews of the different trainers, I think I am sold on the KICKR. However, I’m dizzy from all the different apps listed, so not sure which direction to go for my personal needs.
I’m doing IM Lake Placid July 2014 and looking for an app that will allow me to download either the course and do it on the KICKR, or do some interactive 3d’ish type ride on the KICKR. If possible, can you answer some of the questions i have below:
* Is the KICKR strong enough to handle a 6 hours continuous spin without killing the device or overheating?
* Which software app do you recommend for IM training that follows the ascent and decent of the course?
*Placid is hilly, I would love to train on the course without having to leave my place.
* Out of the several app platforms listed in your review, which has an interactive ride or 3D or street level of the course that I can follow.
1) There’s no problems in using it for 6hrs.
2) Your best bets for that type of training would be the CycleOps Virtual Trainer App (check out my 2013 trainer recommendations post for details on that), or, Kinomap. But, I’m not sure if Kinomap has IMLP in it or not.
3) Both VirtualTrainer and Kinomap do (real-course style video). Neither however has Google Street View at this point.
Greg,
Go with the Ipad Cycleops VirtualTraining app (Its awesome), If you have ridden this course before or know somebody who has ask them for their gpx file and recreate it within VT and ride away.
I haven’t checked but the course may already be there if its a popular event.
.
Hi.
I have managed to reserve a budget for the KICKR, but before the purchase I need an answer to some questions (I already asked one question in the past but here I will be more precise):
1) I use GNU Linux, and, since I’m a programmer, I’m writing my own application with ANT+ support.
I need the ANT+ profile documentation for the messages used by the KICKR. I was unable to find it on the
wahoo web site. Note that I *do not* need the iOS or Android wahoo framework documentation
2) I don’t have an iPhone, and I do not plan to buy a smartphone with Bluetooth 4.0.
I need firmware upgrade support via ANT, and the documentation about the ANT message used, so that
I can implement a firmware update application for Linux.
I will not buy the KICKR until this is not available in stock.
3) This is the question I asked some time ago.
I plan to do some sprint workout on the KICKR, in simulation mode.
I don’t care about the frame (I use an old alloy frame, and should it broke, I may buy a steel frame).
My doubt is the following: assume I do a sprint from 0km/ to 40km/h in 30 seconds.
There is some delay in the KICKR, since it first needs to read the current velocity, then do some
computation and finally update the magnetic resistence. Surely this will not happen in real time.
Will the “feel” be the same as when doing the workout on the road?
If this is not true, I may prefer the Kinetic Road Machine trainer, for these workouts.
Regarding linux support, we don’t include the source code and raw ANT message documentation in the general API, but if you contact support we can send it to you.
Regarding firmware updates, we only support doing this with BT40. In order to update a KICKR, you’ll need to use an Apple product with BT40 or very soon an Android device with 4.3 or newer. We don’t plan to add support for ANT firmware updates at this time. We really need to manage this process closely to avoid any possibility of damaging a KICKR with the upgrade.
Regarding simulation mode and sprints, the KICKR control loop operates updates 64 times per second, it works great for simulating and practicing sprints in either standard mode or sim mode.
Hi, Sorry to ask this question again I am sure that this has been answered so many times,however I am sure that there is some new product every few weeks.
I am a very visual person so I like to see routes to ride on.
Can you please list me all the apps or software makers for the kickr that will give me the best and accurate visuals (like the Kinomap ect. )? Can u please list them by best in quality to the lowest. I don’t really care about price however would be nice to know as well.
Thank u very much.
Keep an eye on the wahoo site, specifically the KICKR product page. We’ve got a few documents nearly complete that we are going to use to try and keep up with all the great software that is released and in development.
So I have performed the spin down and everything seemed to work. So I jump off and decide to adjust the rear derailer but I can barely turn the crank with my hand. Is there resistance on the trainer at all times? Past trainers I have used such as the computrainer have no resistance until you add it.
I had my iPad set to erg mode with 0 watts.
So I jumped back on and once I started peddling the watts displayed jump almost to 200 while the target power was still set at 0.
I did another spin down and again it said it was successful but still had the same issues.
Thanks
It’s really unfortunate that ANT firmware update will not be available in the near future. My smartphone does not support USB host mode, so I can’t even use an Bluetooth 4.0 USB stick. I’ll have to use my laptop with the USB stick.
I was assuming that firmware update was a more simple operation; as an example with Garmin Edge 500 I can upgrade the firmware manually, by copying the new firmware in the Garmin device directory, using USB. When the Garmin boots, it checks for the file, and if available and the firmware is more recent, it starts the upgrade process.
Thanks for your reply, can you please give me the list for the current 3th party Apps thats available now with visual routes.
thanks really looking forward to get lots of use from the kickr.
Wahoo is currently selling the Kickr with a free cadence sensor. Would I need a separate sensor for speed data or does the Kickr provide that information on its own? It’s not clear to me if the cadence sensor is all I need or if it would be better to get a speed/cadence sensor.
Thanks for the quick response! I have a couple more questions.
The bike I will be using on the Kickr has a 9-speed 11-32 Deore rear cassette. That means I will need to switch out the cassette on the Kickr to a 9-speed, right? Is there any point in upgrading to a higher level cassette for use with the Kickr (e.g. SLX) or should I stick with the same type of cassette I have on the bike (Deore)? I will not be upgrading any of the other parts on the bike.
Also, does it matter if the bike has a steel frame?
No need to pay more for a fancy cassette on the KICKR. As long as it’s 9 speed Sram/Shimano it will be compatible! You will be good with a Deore cassette. Also, there is no problem using a steel frame on the KICKR whatsoever.
I wasn’t really concerned about the compatibility of the cassette; I was just wondering if an upgraded cassette would give me a better experience on the Kickr, even though I’m not upgrading any other parts.
The Wahoo site is telling me that “shipping options are currently unavailable for this order.” Is there some reason the Kickr can’t be shipped to California?
Upgrading the cassette won’t have much affect without upgrading the entire drive train. Even still, the effects will be negligible while riding on the KICKR.
Wahoo Sean is taking a look at the shipping issue. It is definitely available in California!
Received my Kickr yesterday & it doesn’t work. I followed the instructions to pair it and it did this fine. Then I tried pedalling and the resistance starts easy but gets too hard to pedal after about 10 seconds. I read the support page on Wahoo advising to perform a spin down. I tried this and even with maximum force and the Kickr whizzing around like crazy I am unable to register a speed of more than 3mph or 5kmph so it can’t complete the calibration. I tried it using the Wahoo Fitness App & then the Wahoo Utility App on my iPhone 4s. I then tried using the Trainer Road app on my MacBook Pro which gave the same results. Did I do something wrong or is it faulty?
My bike is set up with a Stages Power meter but I made sure this was not paired. I also have no speed cadence sensor as the Stages / Garmin does this but I doubt this is related as the Kickr provides the speed reading itself as I understand it. The Garmin is off. I closed down all the other Apps when testing it. I have tried powering on and off the Kickr and also turning on and off the bluetooth on my phone. Still no luck.
Hi Jason, this looks exactly as what I experienced, although I managed to get it to 12KM/h (see #590 of this thread). I did (and most likely you) nothing wrong. It was a DOA and I returned it to shop. Rgds.
Thanks so much Dirk! I suspected as much. Based on what you said I called the Apple Store just now and they immediately arranged for a replacement to be shipped to me (no questions asked) which should arrive in 48 hours so look forward to trying it again.
Received the replacement Kickr from Apple before I received the response from Wahoo support. Plugged it in and it worked instantly as it was supposed to. Guess the first one was faulty then…
Hi DC/Group,
Today I downloaded the cycleops VirtualTraining app for iPad for a first impression on how it works.
Connected the KICKR to it with BT4.0
Also used my Garmin800 to connect my HR and Cadence sensor with ANT+ (I don’t have a ANT+ dongle for iPad yet) as well as the KICKR.
I run into these problems/questions
1. The SPEED in Cycleops is always 3-6 KM/h higher then the speed displayed on my Garmin. The POWER has been always the same on both Garmin and Cycleops. Where is this speed coming from? I always thought that speed is send by the KICKR. If it is from the KICKR, I would suspect seeing the same speed in the cycleops app and the Garmin?!. Or is it calculated?, and if it is calculated what could be a reason for such a difference?
See picture: link to dropbox.com
In this picture the speed on Garmin is 28.5; in the Cycleops app its 34.9
2. The video (I did “kapellen V1”) in the app was not smooth at all. In fact it was almost never. The longest period I noticed it was smooth was about 10 seconds, but most of the time it was freezing, falter; very annoying. Anyone else experienced same problem and what to do to resolve?
FYI: I stopped all running apps on iPad just to be sure; Cycleops was the only running application. But it was the same all the time.
1. I believe Virtual Training calculates the speed based on power instead of displaying actual speed. You can check that your wheel circumference is correct in the bike settings. Also make sure you have the latest release of the software. I understand they just released an updated desktop software that improved the accuracy a good bit.
2. I am not sure of this. I have not used the app, only the desktop software nor have I done that particular ride. The ride I did seemed smooth and accurate. I would suggest reaching out to the Virtual Training support team to see if they have any suggestions.
1. That’s right Brad, the speed in Virtual Trainer is based on your power output combined with the gradient. For example, when you ride -2% and riding with 200 Watts, you will ride something like 45km/h. When riding 200W with 6% gradient, you will ride about 15km/h. But when you are heavier or lighter, you will see other numbers.
@Dirk
Stick with it as this app is awesome.
Took me a while to get my head around the speed thing too as well as a conversation with their support.
Once you understand it it is great and pretty acurate.
The difference between Virtual Training and say Segments is VT simulates an outdoor ride where Segments doesnt and have to pedal every mile with no relief.
Thank you @Kevin! Appreciate your feedback. I have read your post on the VT forum and the explanation from VT support. Makes sense. Need to do more rides and thinking it over again. I’ll now focus on the video issue on my iPad as this makes it almost unusable. Thanks again. Cheers.
@Dirk.
If the problem is that your internet connection is not fast enough to stream the video as you ride download the video to your ipad first and then ride. If you need to reclaim the space on the pad afterwards delete the video.
I personally like to view my ride in map (satellite view) you spot loads of stuff that you don’t usually see from the road.
One more point on the speed issue,
If you are using the same bike or trying to emulate your road going bike using an old frame be sure to put in the weight of the bike you are trying to copy as well as your body weight including everything you would have with you on a real world ride (water bottle, shoes, lid etc) this increased my overall weight by 6lbs and the speed numbers were even better. Don’t forget the wheel size too (though not sure if this really affects anything when on a KICKR)
My limited experience with this product is very positive. However, I believe there is a safety issue with this product. I was performing power jumps on a Wahoo Kickr in a high gear (large chain ring, small cog) whereby I start out pedaling slowly then accelerate to the maximum speed/rpm I can attain. At that point, my bike came off the Kickr, and I fell to the floor. Checking my power numbers later, I saw that I was at 1085 watts when I fell. The only explanation for this mishap I can think of is that I did not clamp the skewer on tightly enough. Anyone else have this problem?
I noticed that the LeMond Revolution that uses the same mechanism for attaching a bike has very explicit warnings about this:
WARNING: SECURELY CLAMPING THE BIKE TO THE REVOLUTION WITH THE CAM ACTION RETENTION DEVICE [AKA, skewer] TAKES CONSIDERABLE FORCE. IF YOU CAN FULLY CLOSE THE CAM LEVERAGE WITHOUT WRAPPING YOUR FINGERS AROUND THE SEAT STAY OR CHAIN STAY FOR LEVERAGE, THE LEVER DOES NOT LEAVE A CLEAR IMPRINT IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND, AND THE SERRATIONS ON THE WHEEL FASTENER DO NOT EMBOSS THE SURFACES OF THE DROPOUT, THE TENSION IS INSUFFICIENT. OPEN THE LEVER TURN THE TENSION ADJUSTING NUT CLOCKWISE A QUARTER TURN; THEN TRY AGAIN.
I cannot find anything in the Kickr documentation about how tight to clamp the skewer.
I hope you and your bike are unharmed! You are correct. It is very important that your bike is properly installed on the KICKR and that the quick release lever is properly tightened down. We have the following warning in the Quick Start guide included with all KICKRs:
Warning: Be sure that the quick release skewer is completely tightened before riding the KICKR PowerTrainer. The lever should require significant effort to close and should leave a defined imprint on your hand. Failure to properly tighten the quick release may result in property damage or personal injury. If you are unsure of the proper tension please consult your local bike shop or contact Wahoo Fitness for assistance. DO NOT ride the KICKR PowerTrainer if you believe your quick release skewer is not properly installed.
If you believe your unit did not come with the quick start guide, please let us know so we can ensure this does not occur again.
Thanks for the quick response, Brad. The only bad things that happened was a scratch on my knee, bent derailer hanger and skewer, and a bruised ego. Allow me to explain the circumstances a little further. I was using a Kickr as part of a spin class for which I recently signed up. We have 11 Kickrs in the room. I had no access to the quick start you mention, and the coach did not say anything about how much to tighten the skewer that I recall. I’ve put rear wheels on bikes hundreds of times and never had a problem, and I’m sure I just followed my instincts this time, too. I do remember not being able to close the skewer at all and having to untighten several times, but I’m guessing that I untightened too much but that it was well within the range I normally use for my rear wheel. This is the first time I’ve ever used a trainer that uses this type of mechanism for attaching a bike
Ooooops! I forgot to add: my reference to your documentation was only to what I could find on the support page of your website. As a former tech writer and an avid consumer of user documentation, we always said RTFM!
I’m sure we are all guilty of not reading the manual sometime or another! There used to be a link to the quick start guide online but it must have gotten lost in an update. Thanks for pointing this out! I’ll get that added back in and make sure we put more emphasis on the importance of a tight QR skewer.
I just want to verify that I have understood the 664 posts correctly:
– My existing Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor will continue to transmit data to my Garmin Edge 705 as if I was riding outdoors?
– the Kickrs will transmit Power and Speed to my Garmin Edge 705. At the moment Speed is transmitted via the size of my wheels and a magnet, and I don’t have a power meter. So the power meter is a real benefit of the Kickrs and embedded?
– I can use my iPhone 4S or iPad (don’t know the exact version but has Retina and is one year old) to control the Kickrs (resistance etc.) and upgrade the firmware
– I can than use 3rd party software via my Apple devices together with the wahoo app to do all sorts of cool things (ride virtual courses with video, develop training schemes etc.)?
Thanks for the support, this site is very helpful.
PS Given the price difference I am inclined to pick one up when back in the US, but I reckon it doesn’t fit my suitcase coming back to Europe?
It will actually ship just fine on virtually every carrier (airline). I’ve brought a few of them back and forth no problem. The box shipping weight is just barely under 50lbs, which is pretty much the standard for free bag allowances.
I also contacted the Wahoo support, but maybe someone here can help me…
I got my Kickr a couple of hours ago and just set it up. I’ve got a couple of problems with it and it seems that the resistance is broken in some way.
I connected everything with the Wahoo Fitness App on my iPad (3rd Generation) [and later with my iPhone 5s]. I set the circumference to my wheel size [is this right? even if the wheel is not in place?]. If I start to pedal it shows always under 30 wattage and a speed of lower than 30km/h. In the power settings, only the “resistance screen” works, meaning if I tap on the “erg screen” and the wattages is shown at 000, the resistance increases and I can’t continue paddling. Only if I return to the “resistance screen” I can paddle again.
I can’t even perform the spindown calibration because I can’t reach the specified speed, and I paddle with a cadence of 130rpm!!!
Here you find a video which shows my edge 800 (with the power of the Kickr and the cadence of my garmin cadence sensor) as well as the Fitness App. link to dl.dropboxusercontent.com
Hi Dirk, thanks for your reply! I got through a couple of posts and used the search function, but it was quite hard to find. I’ll contact Apple (same as Jason, I used Apple for shipping) and hopefully they’ll replace my Kickr. I’ll come back and report. Thanks again and have a nice day, Martin
I just wanted to tell you that my problem is solved right now.
I received my new Kickr yesterday from apple and it works perfect.
First I had to do an update (did they change something over the weekend), but after that the spindown calibration worked fine, as well as my first 1,5h workout.
I’m looking right now for an app (and/or online service), where I can create a trip and then ride the elevation profile. Strava segments isn’t too bad, but there I can only ride short segments. Trips, getting up L’Alp d’Huez or Col du Tourmalet or any other trips near my hometown, would be nice. I don’t really need a video (as for example Kinomaps), just the elevation profile would be nice.
Any suggestions?
Hi ,
Sorry to ask this again ,how do i get my Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor to work on Wahoo Fitness or 3th’ party apps while using the Kickr.
i have the Garmin 810.
Hi Josef – I am also using Garmin HR and Cadence sensor and I am connecting these to my computer and iPad. For this I bought the Suunto ministick USB (about Eur 40) for ANT+ support under OSX and Win7 and I have bought the Wahoo ANT+ key (about Eur 65) for support under iOS (iPad/iPhone). Works fine. If you have a new iOS device (with the new style connector) you also need the Lightning to 30-pin adapter from Apple (or alike) to connect the Wahoo ANT+ key to your iOS device. Once you have the HR and Cadence info available in your application (TrainerRoad, Virtualtraining, Kinomap, etc) you don’t need the Garmin 810 device, although you still will be able to also collect the ANT+ information broadcasted by your sensors (including the KICKR) into your Garmin head unit. Happy cycling, cheers.
If you want to display data from your Garmin sensors for now you need to use an ANT Key for the Apple device to get that data into an iPhone or iPad. We’re working on an update that will allow the KICKR to pick up your ANT sensors and rebroadcast them as BT, but it likely won’t be for a couple more months.
Thanks for your reply.
However I did purchase the Wahoo ant+ key ,and it shows up in the wahoo utility app and got the :-),but still cannot get my cadence to connect even after peddling and trying to get out of the sleep mode.
Please help I rely so much on the cadence data
Thanks
Did you pair the speed/cadence sensor in the app settings (just like the KICKR)? After you do that, scroll down to “Data Sources” and make sure Cadence is set to Speed/Cadence sensor instead of KICKR/Power Meter.
Just received a Kickr and I’m confused about Erg mode… which I’m using through TrainerRoad. It seems that TrainerRoad sets a certain resistance for the Kickr depending on the wattage that the course calls for; and I can adjust my cadence/speed as that wattage varies. If I do that though, I find that I have to ride really fast/slow throughout the ride and not at a constant cadence of 90 rpm which is where I like it. This becomes a bit awkward. Is the alternative to change gears, (i.e. switch to a higher cadence gear when the target wattage is higher)? Or does changing gears somehow lead to a change in the resistance that the Kickr sets itself at? I know it’s a silly question but I’m very new to this! Thanks for any help.
Erg mode is used to set the KICKR to a given wattage regardless of your speed or cadence. If you like to ride at 90 cadence, you can maintain 90 cadence throughout your workout and the energy in Watts will match the profile that the workout calls for. How hard you have to pedal at 90 cadence will change depending on the set wattage. Remember that Power(Watts) = Torque(How hard it is to pedal) * Cadence. So for a given power you can increase your cadence and pedal easier, or decrease your cadence and pedal harder. Beware as you get tired you naturally want to decrease your cadence, in Erg mode this is not a good idea, because it will get harder to pedal as you slow your cadence. You’ll learn not to daydream and slow your cadence using Erg mode pretty quick!
It’s a little confusing at first. If anything, keep it in the small ring to reduce noise. From what I understand “speed” is simply the result of what gear you have it in. Kind of meaningless in this case…
That will definitely work. Keep in mind that lower gears and lower speed are quieter, but with the flywheel spinning slow it doesn’t feel quite as realistic. I usually use low gears when I’m not putting out a lot of power because it is quieter and go a little faster when I am doing really tough efforts. The momentum of the flywheel will even out the pedal stroke and feel more natural when you are going faster.
Yes that works for me the best as well. I’m putting the chain on 39T front and about 14-15T on the back in ERG mode. That makes for about 30km/h in real life and has the best ride feeling and almost no noise. When you put your gear on 30T front and 28T on the back it makes the least noise, but the mass of the flywheel doesn’t compensate the dead spots enough between pushing your left en right leg. When climbing 11% without ERG mode it feels realistic though, because in real life you come almost directy to a standstill as well.
So when it doesn’t feel real/fluid, just adjust gears.
I also experienced that you can train in ERG mode hills or long flat tracks. When you push 240 Watt in ERG mode, turning to a cadence of 75 really trains your main muscles in your upper leg and bottom. When riding 220W and having a cadance of 95, you train for long flat pieces of road. It really makes a lot difference and it’s great! No more pedalling at 75 RPM on flat roads in real life at full power to train my mountain muscles. I love it!
I have currently the issue that I have to calibrate it every time I use the KICKR.
when I start, the first 10 min the power is not real fixed. I meant that it fluctuates constant, even when in ERG mode i put it to 100 watt.
After 10min I try to calibrate it and then after a while the KICKR can maintain the power.
Sorry for the duplicate post. I was on my tablet and replied to the wrong/previous post of yours (Kristof) for a similar problem.
Kristof, did you get this fixed? After about a month of use mine just started acting similarly. In fact it fluctuates so much it is nearly impossible to ride depending on the training program. I have a support ticket submitted and I’m hoping to hear back tomorrow from Wahoo.
My new Kickr arrived on Saturday, very soon after ordering. I was very much looking forward to using it, set it up, mostly using this review as the instructions are pretty vague on the piece of paper provided.
I paired the device with my iphone using the app, but no power and no speed readings, and no control over the brake, so no resistance. I have logged an email with Wahoo, how long do you typically need to wait for a reply? Very strange support not to have any phone number whatsoever to contact them. I’m hoping it can be solved quickly…
I have exactly the same problem with mine (see #695), have you received any reply from wahoo?
I sent an e-mail 18.11.2013, but still no answer. Have you found a solution by yourself?
Wait and see…
It normally takes 24 hours for a response, sometimes longer for KICKR support tickets over the weekend as we don’t have anyone specialised doing support over the weekend. We do have limited phone support, check the contact page for details (link to wahoofitness.com).
Still nothing back from Wahoo after 2 working days since I emailed my issue, and I haven’t managed to fix it myself. Thanks for the link to the phone Murray, I left a message today, but no call back. I see that the phone line is manned only at certain times (see copy of link below), I tried calling in the time slot today. Have mild worries now over my purchase, and don’t want to have to go through the whole hassle of returning etc. Not great, but at least I have not sold my fluid trainer or rollers, this is why I have been reluctant to switch to an electronic trainer….
Phone Support
(404) 939-2447
Phone Hours:
Tuesday: 2pm – 5pm EST
Thursday: 10am – 12pm EST
Friday: 10am – 12pm EST
I just responded via the support and gave you my email. Not sure how you were missed. I think if you update the ticket it gets marked as new and goes to the bottom of the queue… We’ll get it sorted.
I just purchased a new KICKR from Wahoo. Oddly the sticker on the box that you typically have to remove to open was already cut open with a blunt object. Everything seemed to be in the box and set up fine. However, there is a metal on metal grinding noise in the flywheel.
It does not seem ridable the way that it is which is a real bummer because I just got rid of my old trainer this weekend to make space for the KICKR.
Is there some adjustment that needs to be done? I connected the Wahoo fitness app to the KICKR and made sure the resistance was at 0. What could this be? Has anyone had this issue?
Hello,
I’m really desapointed. I just received my Kickr, and tried to do my first workout, but power data or speed isn’t displayed.
– I downloaded the Wahoo Fitnes on my Iphone 5
– I have paired the kickr adding the sensor “powermeter/Kickr”, which has been detected (also Garmin 910xt detected it)
-“Control your Kickr power trainer”, “bike power”, etc. enabled
– the power data is not displayed, even on the Garmin
– The only resistance control mode working is “resistance”, the others don’t
– I downloaded Wahoo utility, tested bluetooth-KICKR: Kickr is connected, but no display of power or speed
hi, whats the bike block (for the front wheel) you are using in the photo with the girls bike? its nice and small and looks like doesn’t take up too much space. tks. Alan
Hi DC/Group,
yesterday I rode the San Francisco tour with the desktop/Win7 version of CycleOps VirtualTraining. I did the whole ride (about 22km). There were two things drawing my attention.
1. There is a delay in the KICKR control of about 3-5 seconds. You can notice this clearly in the SF tour – in this ride you have many changes from flat to climb or the other way around because of the hills in San Francisco. Only after 5 seconds you feel the difference in the KICKR after the change on the screen (either in video, or in the data on the screen). The video and the data on the screen is consistent and the video is smooth. This delay was ALWAYS there, not sometimes.
2. In total three or four times (in total ride of 22 KM), suddenly the resistance on the KICKR disappeared. After some seconds (5 – 15) it came back to normal.
Platform: Win7 on iMac 2011 Intel (Bootcamp). All devices, including the KICKR, connected through ANT+ via the Suunto mini USB adapter.
Any idea what this can be? Anyone in the group having the same experience?. If you are using the VirtualTraining Win7 desktop application – what kind of delay, if any, are you seeing? Thanks! rgds.
Hi, re.1 this is reply from CycleOps VT:
“Ad 1) 3-5 seconds is standard time of full respond of KICKR (the resistance is set up). Believe me, KICKR is really fast in comparison with some other trainers! This is HW limitation and we are not able to change it.”
@Wahoo: is this to be compared with post #740 and #741? Are you also working with Cycleops to increase response?
Thanks. Cheers.
+1 for a DOA I think with my new Kickr. Wahoo ticket taken Sunday so I guess I’ll wait for them to confirm but otherwise will just request a replacement from Apple. Unusual but I really like the look of what the Kickr will do – even if it doesn’t work.
Be sure and check in with support If you are seeing no speed reading or erratic speed readings on a brand new KICKR. Brad’s scrambling trying to confirm precisely what is going on and come up with a quick solution. It seems that the latest batch some of the units speed sensors are a bit too far from the optical pickup causing the speed to not be detected reliably. We’ll post more details on our support FAQ shortly. We have a few workable fixes, trying to determine the easiest field update so that it isn’t necessary to ship them back.
The problem is with the speed sensor but it shows up in power and other functionality also. Power is calculated by taking torque * speed, so when speed is wrong it also makes power wrong. We’re working on an update on the support site with some more details.
Read your reviews on indoor cycle training– Wahoo, Tacx, etc. These are definitely made for younger bike competitors. I’m in my 60’s and definitely don’t race. I’m looking for something that will interface with video games for either PlayStation or Xbox. The software that comes with the products you reviewed just look like a bunch of street views and I think after awhile, for a non-cyclist like me, I’d get tired of just seeing another street somewhere in the world. I saw Cyberbike– it looks old and only made for the Wii (no longer made) and bad reviews and I can’t find any current video games that interface with a true bicycle– well, the Fisher Price perhaps but I’m a little big for that. My question— would any of the products you have reviewed interface with PlayStation 4 or the new XBox?
No, none of them do. The challenge with developing for those platform is the extremely high cost of entry from a software standpoint, compared to no cost of entry for Desktop/Tablet platforms. Thus, unlikely for most of the trainer companies.
Gary
Not sure what you want to get out of a ride. This evening I hopped on my KICKR with my old Specialized 07 Transition bike, using Kinomap Trainer, along with Pink Floyd “Dark Side of the Moon” and took a 21 mile ride in Rigaud Canada. All from the comfort of my basement in Missouri! It’s a great machine with lots of software options. (Sure they are still working out some kinks) I’m not a racer like a lot of these other folks, just an old guy trying to have a little fun while staying in shape for out door rides and burning off a little fat in the process. And YES I’m over 60!
Dave
At what point do you change your recommendation based on the product quality, customer support and Wahoo’s ability to scale?
I doubt you would recommend hardware and software to your IT clients with these issues. I know the trainer is cool and I love the tech. However, Wahoo and the KICKR product is unreliable.
Any industry analyst in your profession weighs viability, support and quality criteria seriously. If you were using a quadrant, Wahoo would be a challenger, not a leader. For the good of your credibility and the trust you build with us, I ask you to consider this.
It’s challenging, because while I certainly see folks here with issues – one has to also remember that this is the single place where folks do go and post issues. So the comments section is sorta like forums, it often only attracts people with troubleshooting problems. And, from what I’m seeing, Wahoo is sorting them out when they pop up. I can e-mails every day with quite happy KICKR users.
While I would like to see Wahoo respond within a few hours, I’m also realistic that in some cases people are upset because they sent an e-mail on Tuesday afternoon and haven’t received an e-mail Wednesday morning.
In other cases, Wahoo has dropped the ball on support cases, and they’ve generally been upfront about that here in the comments too.
There’s also the reality that in some cases it really is the persons problem for not reading instructions, or, posting here without ever even trying to contact support. In fact, it’s a bit of a challenge for Wahoo because if there is a problem with a batch of units – people come here and expect Wahoo support. Wahoo can’t easily track that to understand if there’s a random one-off issue, or something in a batch. And yet (as you’ve seen), Wahoo is still helping folks resolve support queries here.
Looking at the trainer industry across the board, the only area where Wahoo isn’t 1st place in every category I can think of is support. And in this case, they’re in 2nd place (beyond CycleOps). But if I look at every other company in that category, the others support practices are less ideal. Take for example Tacx, I did actually include that in my review on their recent trainer because their support is such a mess and frustrates so many people. If I look at Kinetic, it’s behind Wahoo – people were having problems for weeks or months without Kinetic solving them.
Just an update on my experience with the Kickr. I too had trouble out of the box with my unit. It was returned and I had a new Kickr before my old one was out the door. I didn’t like the hassle either but it has turned out to be easily worth the trouble. I am now using as the weather here in Illinois turns to “expletive deleted”! Anyway I would council all to have a little patience, it will be worth it.
I do not have any monetary involvement with Kickr just a satisfied user.
Jerry
I should have said I am using it all the time now that the weather has turned. I received the machine last spring and road outside for the previous 6 months.
Jerry
I received my KICKR as part of the RFLKT+ Kickstarter reward, had it now for a month or so and its great.
I did have a problem with it when it arrived as the cassette was buckled but Wahoo were straight on it and shipped a replacement cassette out within a week to me in the UK. Fitted it and haven’t looked back.
Total awesomeness!!!!
Don’t hesitate if you are thinking of a KICKR as your next trainer, as with all forums its generally only problems that are posted, this piece of kit is the mutts nuts!!!
If you do run into a problem the support from Wahoo is top dollar too.
OK,
Could somebody give me an idiots guide on how to perform a 20min FTP test on my KICKR.
Apps I have are ,,
Wahoo Fitness – iphone
Cyclemeter – iphone
VirtualTraining – ipad
intervals iMi – iphone.
iMi seems to be the one that would be most appropriate but I dont really understand it,
I found a workout ’20 Minute FTP Test’ self explainitary added it and start it then confusion?
’15:00 of warmup’ – watts endurance?
‘5:00 of Intense Warmup’ – watts VO2-MAX
‘5:00 of Spin down’ – Watts recovery
’20:00 of Test Interval’
’20:00 of cooldown’ watts recovery
The part I dont follow is the watts?
what are –
‘watts endurance’ what should I be doing aiming at?
also watts VO2-MAX and watts recovery?
HELP
also in the description on completion is says upload to iMi and find the avg for the 20mins and subtract 5% etc?
Is there not a way of just performing the test and getting a result which is my FTP? I dont mind subtracting 5% but I just need it to display the avg of the 20mins at the end none of the rest?
I would just like a simple way of doing this approx once a month.
@Kevin K -FTP test
you need the value form the 2 min Test interval, the rest is warm up/cool down which you should also do. For the Watts listed in iM:
’15:00 of warmup’ – watts endurance? -> Zone 2: steady riding, you can still talk, legs are not “burning”. Do a good warm up, maybe you more than 15+5 min..! ’5:00 of Intense Warmup’ – watts VO2-MAX -> Zone 5: You can turn the Watts up and down to produce “spikes”. This is where your body is put to work! Don’t waste it all, but get some serious watts in. Try high spinning while increasing watts and lower the intensity when the candence drops – repeat! ’5:00 of Spin down’ – Watts recovery -> Zone 1: Easy rolling/sweet music after 5 hectic minutes. Pulse drops real low. ’20:00 of Test Interval’ -> Zone 4: This is it! Focus, start off at a watt level you find ok hard. 20 min can be long, som do not be too optimistic! Concentrate and adjust the power so you end up with the highest possible average for all 20 minutes, maybe even start conservative and raise it after 10 min.
’20:00 of cooldown’ watts recovery -> Zone 1: Easy rolling/sweet music, pulse should come all the way down – or maybe you are ready for another “sample” 😉
Now calculate your FTP (Functional Threshold Power). If your average power for the 20 min. Test interval was 260W then multiply by 0.95 to get your FTP: 260*0.95 = 247
From now on you have a number to go for in all future rides. These rides contain intervals that are below and above you FTP. Everybody has their own personal FTP, but training programs/intervals can be generalised with this value as your reference point. Repeat the test every 4-6 weeks or when you feel a change in overall form.
Read the book that has it all covered for real humans:
iMobileIntervals is my app and as you found iMobileIntervals provides this workout in our online public workouts library.
To answer your questions as best I can:
* There are lots of ways to get your FTP, some harder, some easier, some more accurate and some less so. This workout is provided as a “quick and simple” way to test it. The workout description link to imobileintervals.com makes note of some other ways to do it, which either involve longer efforts or studying race or ride data graphs.
* iMi doesn’t have a built in test, in the sense that there is a special workout where it runs the calculation on your effort and spits back the numeric FTP. It also doesn’t have the ability to look at each split of your workout result and display your average watts for that interval. You’d need that feature to be able to get a value from the 20min ftp test without uploading the workout result to a cloud service (e.g. Garmin Connect or TrainingPeaks. where you can analyze the result.
* Garmin Connect and IMobileIntervals websites are both free, as is TrainingPeaks basic, so there are easy solutions to checking your data to get the watts average you need for the calculation
* watts recovery/watts endurance/watts VOMAX refer to prescribed intensity zones for the interval. If you are using the KICKR and have ALREADY entered an FTP value in your account or app setting, the app will control the KICKR in ERG mode, targeting the average watts for that zone (e.g. 113% of FTP in zone VOMAX). Otherwise, its nothing but informational for you to judge your effort.
* This workout uses five minutes of VOMAX to pre-stress the system, giving a more accurate FTP measurement using the following 20 minute interval.
An update of the app in in progress. I’ll look into ways to generate an ftp measurement right within the app, so as to eliminate the need to look at the data online.
I’ve had mine for about a week. I had it set up within minutes. I’m using it in conjunction with Trainer Road and Sufferfest and it’s pure awesomeness!!!
I like JohnD and Daniel received my Kickr Tuesday after paying $190 to have it overnighted to make sure that I didn’t miss my workout last night. Big mistake. It picks up the sensor but doesn’t display speed or power. I filled out a ticket immediately, Called repeatedly today, even in the 10-12 time period they said they have customer service and no response at all. It is a little hard to believe that I need to get answers for the issue through this web site which is the reason I bought the thing to begin with. Looking for answers and a refund of the overnight charge for the paperweight.
Based upon the little bit of information found on this website I was able to fix my problem with the Kickr myself. Don’t try yourself as it might void your warrantee, but I cut two new slots for the optical eye and moved it closer to the black and white disk. It now works flawlessly. I am not suggesting you do the same and if you do so you do so at your own risk. I’ve been enjoying Kinomap and this is fun and what I expected to begin with. Other than the initial problems, this is a nice product.
Well the deed is done, 1st FTP complete :0
In the end I used Wahoo fitness on LEVEL 3 in the KICKR options then pressed lap on the RFLKT+ every interval.
Uploaded to Garmin for the results and got an average power over the 20 minutes of 259W.
So therefore 259×0.95=246.05…
There’s a starting point for me.
Thanks guys for your help…absolutely fooked now!
Kevin 🙂
If you want a “Fun” way of doing the FTP in the future, I would recommend “Rubber Glove” from the Sufferfest. link to thesufferfest.com I use that in conjunction with Trainer Road and could not be happier with the results. I do have some minor issues and a wish list. You can see them in my post on 24 November 2013.
I am a Sufferlandrian, ride all the videos and plan to do the Tour of Sufferlandria in January 2014. Give it a go and you will be hooked.
A followup to my posts. The folks at Wahoo were trying to figure out the problem with a new shipment, one of which I received, when I was trying to contact them. They did contact me late last night, did everything they could to help me out, offered to send another unit overnight and definately understood my concerns and responded appropriately. I now have used he Kickr extensively, and I love this thing. I was using a Real Power Wireless Elite, and it was buggy as you could get and with the upgrade to Windows 8.1, and unsigned drivers, I gave up trying to get it to work and bought the kickr. Entirely worth the effort and about as real an outside experience as i could hope for. It was again well worth the effort to get this thing and the folks at Wahoo, while a small company, are passionate about what they do and believe in the product.
I just started cycling during July 2013 here in the states and knew I needed a trainer come winter. I only learned of the kickr in early November. I went and bought it, didn’t think twice and actually found this site after the purchase. Ultimately I too have the optical sensor flaw. I contacted wahoo tech support on November 21, 2013 and they were up front and honest in admitting a production flaw. “Working in an engineering department myself I greatly appreciate the honesty”. I just received an email reply with support and repair information, one day later after discovering the issue. I am thrilled at the response from them, though I did reply to my initial post as I was 15 hours into the ticket without assignment. Bravo, Wahoo fitness as I may have sold an IT and software engineer on this item due to the response they have shown with taking care of a customer. Thanks and keep cycling!
Question for one of the Wahoo team – have you narrowed down the sensor issue now so that the faulty batch can be pulled from your suppliers? I’m in the UK and ordering through Apple (slightly cheaper). Don’t want to get yet another and have to return this.
Respectfully at this price I’d rather not be performing the field repair 😉
Reading the success stories only makes me more frustrated to get training, especially now our weather is cooling down!
Can you contact me at chip at wahoofitness.com. I believe we have it sorted, but would be good to get some more information from you. Also can get you a replacement if necessary straight from our warehouse.
I have connected my Kickr to TrainerRoad (TR) on my MacBook Pro which has the Garmin ANT+ dongle or collect HR & Cadence. My bike has a Stages Power meter and no cadence sensor as the Stages normally provides this data to the Garmin on the road.
With this set up I am getting:
Power / speed / distance on TR from the Kickr.
Heart rate displayed on TR from the Garmin strap
However I get no Cadence from the Stages. Do you know if it’s possible to pick this up on TR or do I need to attach a Garmin candence sensor?
Also another question is on the speed / distance I am getting when doing Sufferfest videos on TR seems very low. Like 20km/h for an hour at 230 watts? I have it set to km/h but am now wondering if it’s reading mp/h?
You’re in a pickle there as both the KICKR and the Stages are seen as power meters, and thus, you can only actively use one – even if they contain different sensor channels (i.e. cadence vs speed).
On the Macbook you could go with either the BlueSC (Wahoo BLE sensor), or the ANT+ sensor (with ANT+ USB adapter). Generally speaking you’ll find something like the GSC-10 from Garmin cheaper, but not always.
Ray is right, a lot of software and hardware products won’t let you connect multiple power meters (stages and KICKR) so its a little difficult.
We are working on some new KICKR firmware that will re-broadcast the cadence data from the Stages via the KICKR… although I am not 100% sure when this will be released.
Thanks Rainmaker. I have the Garmin sensor already but do not have it fitted to my bike as I use the Garmin GPS for speed and Stages for cadence so was hoping to avoid fitting it just for use on the Kickr.
Thanks Wahoo Murray. Sounds fantastic that you guys are working on a solution already! Great idea 🙂
In the meantime I have all the data on Trainer Road except for the cadence and to use that information for the training programs I am turning on my Garmin and set a screen for just cadence so read this from there which works fine. Just means my files are missing the additional data at the moment.
I am very interested in buying a Kickr, but as I live in the UK, I do have concerns about the warranty and support. The Wahoo website would seem to intimate that a faulty unit would need to be shipped at the purchaser’s expense to Wahoo; I would suggest that it isn’t feasible for a purchaser in the UK to ship a 46Ib Kickr to the USA. Also, with regards to the Distance Selling Regulations in the UK, it is the seller who must pay return carriage costs for a faulty item.
I was initially thinking of purchasing a Tacx i-Genius Multiplayer VR Trainer due to the fall in price to £800-850. However, the ongoing comments on reliability and (lack of) support for the Tacx unit put me off. As there would now seem to be production issues with the Kickr, is anybody able to comment on the warranty and support offered to a UK purchaser? I have asked this question on the Wahoo website, but I am waiting for a reply.
Mark I’m pretty sure the Wahoo guys will give you reassurance regards their site and service but as a UK buyer I can definitely confirm Apple will ship, and handle returns/refunds, at no expense, so that might be another option for you.
Mark I’m pretty sure the Wahoo guys will give you reassurance regards their site and service but as a UK buyer I can definitely confirm Apple will ship, and handle returns/refunds, at no expense.
We have a warehouse and support center in the Netherlands, so we can take care of things in the UK fairly efficiently. If you received something that didn’t work out of the box, we wouldn’t expect you to pay for return shipping, that’s more for things into the warranty period.
Mark, I live in Dubai and ordered my Kickr via the Apple store online as they are the only retailer. I received one of the faulty ones so feared the worst sending back a 28kg package from here. One call to Apple to report the issue and they sent a courier within 48 hours to bring me a new Kickr free of charge and took away the faulty one. Fantastic customer service 🙂
After six weeks, here are my observations using a Wahoo Kickr with Trainer Road, Windows XP and a Suunto ANT+ adaptor.
The Kickr seems to delay the commands sent from Trainer Road by about 2 seconds and then keeps the target power in for about 3 – 5 seconds after the interval is over. No matter how hard I try, I am always short on average watts on an interval due to this delay. At the end of an interval, it will say goal power is 250 your power 248, 98% accuracy. You can see that there is a delay if you zoom into the first 4 intervals on my “Ebbetts” workout. Looking at the individual sprints, the power curve shifts right of the target power. Target power is 228 but because of the delay, my power is 223. I wish there was a delay adjustment in the settings. If there is, I couldn’t find it.
The delay is not a big deal on the longer intervals. However, on the short burst sprint intervals like on my “Clark” workout, the goal power might be 536 but my power will only be 117 even tho I observed my power spike up to 600 watts on my Garmin. The delay makes these short sprints impossible.
I also made the mistake of pausing during one of these high power sprints. That pauses the program with the target resistance set really high. Because I have to pedal for five seconds to start the program back up, and due to the low cadence, it is impossible to apply enough force to actually un-pause the program (Power = Force x Cadence). I was standing full force on one pedal and using my hands on the ceiling to push down, but still could barely overcome the resistance. (and I weight 225 pounds). If you can get your pedals to move for the five seconds, you have to hope that the target power and Kickr power adjusts back to normal levels. I ended up starting the whole workout over.
I have learned that during a high cadence interval, I should slow my cadence down while there is still a higher resistance on the Kickr. If you wait to slow down after the interval is over, the flywheel will be spinning too fast with little resistance to slow it down. You have to stop peddling for some time before you feel some resistance on the pedals (which may pause the program). I wish the program was smart enough to realize that I’m not peddling, and the resistance is to low to slow the freewheel, so it should add a little breaking until things get back to normal.
Another issue I have noticed is that sometimes the program will not adjust the resistance on the Kickr at the end of an interval. It’s like the Kickr has ADHD and doesn’t always pay attention to the TR commands. I will be doing an interval at 254 watts and then a rest of 107. The goal on the screen is 107 but the resistance on the Kickr will stay at 240 watts. See my “Thunder” workout between interval two and three. I have discovered that I can adjust the power on my iPhone, using the Wahoo app and then, the TR program will adjust the resistance on the start of the next interval. Maybe the TR app should send multiple commands to the Kickr to adjust the resistance, even if it is the same resistance level?
You can see another example of this on my first” 8 Minute Test.” During the first test interval the Kickr’s resistance did not released to Standard mode (it did say Standard on the screen). The resistance stayed at 107 which negated the test results. I stopped peddling and paused the program but that did not reset the resistance on the Kickr. Everything seemed to work on the second eight minute interval (except for me messing with gearing and cadence half way through). I moved my Windows laptop closer to my bike and have turned Wi-Fi off during the training sessions but that doesn’t seem to help.
When the Kickr is on, it’s really spot on, but every once in a while it will throw me a curve.
Thanks for the feedback Patrick. It’s a bit on us and a bit on Trainer Road. We’re working with them to get things working a little cleaner. They need a bit more feedback from the KICKR to make sure things are where they think they are. We’re also putting in a separate channel for commands so they can send them to the KICKR at up to 16 times per second without interfering with the power data we’re sending back. Still have a bit of debugging to do before it’s ready to release to them, but it’s looking good.
Rainmaker,
I have a question about your progress on the watt variation from your crank based power meter to the Kickr trainer that changed dramatically with speed. I am interested in getting a wahoo Kickr but if this problem is unresolved I would like to know because I have no other means of power measurement to test my Kickr against. I would never know about the incorrect power. I saw this problem on a Slowtwitch post but never found a resolution.
Thanks,
I think you are talking about some early firmware that seemed to drift compared to a Quarq at high speed, if you look at Ray’s review he commented about how solidly it tracked. When I say new, I mean firmware release 9 months ago.
Here is the quote from the review:
Ray: “Here’s a workout I completed on the latest firmware, and you can see just how solid it tracked against both the Quarq”
Rainmaker, Wahoo Murray,
I was referring to a Slowtwitch post at the end of August where you showed data that displayed a drop in watts (in comparison to your srm) when your speed increased. It sounded like as the tire speed increased the power dropped. Maybe this is no longer an issue which I hope is the case. Thanks for the input. I hope this helps. I am in the market for the best trainer and any input to sway my choice one way or the other would be appreciated. I am wanting to make sure power accuracy remains accurate within reason across all tire speeds.
Thanks again,
Chris
To be honest I think the most important thing is to have consistent and repeatable results. Something that KICKR does very well. If you don’t have another power meter, then you aren’t comparing it to anything, even if you did, I believe indoor power and outdoor power are two very different things. I personally keep 2 different FTP values for indoor and outdoor as they are two very different training environments.
Power isn’t a competition to get the highest numbers between your mates, its about being able to repeatedly quantify your own progress using a reliable metric that can be used in a variety of ways.
Rainmaker, wahoo Murray,
Sorry about the confusion I wasn’t paying enough attention to who posted the comments. I agree with Wahoo Murray about having a consistent means of tracking power however my concern about losing true power with an increase in speed makes me worried about not getting the amount of resistance your thinking your getting. Not trying to be sarcastic but of course it’s a competition about who has the higher FTP. That’s why we race.
Rainmaker, wahoo Murray,
Sorry about the confusion I wasn’t paying enough attention to who posted the comments. I agree with Wahoo Murray about having a consistent means of tracking power however my concern about losing true power with an increase in speed makes me worried about not getting the amount of resistance your thinking your getting. Not trying to be sarcastic but of course it’s a competition about who has the higher FTP. That’s why we race.
I am sure Ray will agree, any power meter is going to give you +/- 5-10 watts… SOOOO many other things come into play. Where the power is read?, Does it have any damping effects?, has it been calibrated?, is calibration important?….
From our testing we do not see any drift at any speed. We have tuned the KICKR to a high precision dyno and compared it to many top of the class power meters with outstanding results
If anyone in the UK is debating whether on getting this. The UK Apple store has it at £101 off today. So its *only* £848. Ordered mine earlier. Should be here on Monday.
I will buy a kickr. But I’m in doubt about where I buy it: Wahoo site or Apple store?
I will stay on US only 11 days. So, I will need to receive and test it before I leave the US.
If I have problem and I will need to send it back, What will be the best option? Reading the posts here, the Apple store is very fast in changing it.
Another thing, what I will need to test the wahoo in a hotel room? 😀 I will rent a bike in Orlando and try to connect it in the laptop or ipad or iphone. What would be the things that I will need to test?
Just purchased a Kickr and cannot do a successful spindown test. Speed seems to be measuring accurately up to a certain point but then becomes erratic and after many attempts have been only able to get to the required speed once. The one time that the target speed was obtained and stopped pedaling, the unit seemed to be coasting down properly but after a few seconds abruptly stops. What are we doing wrong? Have a proper ipad and Bluetooth. Wahoo fitness app has not directed the firmware to be updated so using whatever was already installed.
We’ve seen a few units with an issue reading the speed sensor out of the box lately. It sounds like that is what you are experiencing. Really sorry about that! I checked the support site but didn’t see a ticket. If you contact us there, we can help you get it sorted quickly. If you email me also(chip at wahoo fitness), I’ll make sure we get right back to you. The support guys are crazy busy with the holiday sales rush.
After all the reading I did to help my buddy avoid mistakes, just now saw instruction on Wahoo Fitness App to ride for 10 minutes before calibrating! Have not seen that mentioned by anyone in any comments. Seems like this would be important! Was well aware that a warmup period is required for a Computrainer to let the tire warm up so is it the belt on the Kickr that warms up?
If Wahoo Fitness app does not indicate that the firmware needs to be updated would still like to confirm this? Is there a way to request a firmware update verification?
If you connect to the KICKR with the Wahoo App or the Wahoo Utility it will definitely prompt you if you need to update. Most of the units being shipped now have the latest firmware on them already and don’t need to be updated out of the box. The next version of the Utility will have a bit more information about the KICKR available.
I want to use this product mostly in the ERG. mode. So I’m still confused about the Android version. It looks like the only way to Control the unit is with the Iphone. But if i don’t have an Iphone?
We have a beta App for android that will control the KICKR in Erg mode if you have an Android device that supports Bluetooth 4.0 and is running Android 4.3 or newer. You can get a copy from here: link to wahoofitness.com You can also use a PC or Mac if you don’t have an iPhone.
Hi,
i have a Garmin cadence censer on the bike and got a ant+ key from Wahoo, and i still cannot get my Cadence.
Am i doing anything wrong, do i need to do anything more then plugging the Ant key in to my iPad?
Thanks rainmaker for ur reply,i have tried adding it however it still does not pickup the Garmin cadence censor even tried getting out of sleep mode by peddling.
Purchased the kicker trainer and love it. The only issue I have is that my husband just tried it this weekend and likes it. Now I have to share. It was a huge investment and totally worth it. DCR, thank you for all the time you put into your reviews.
This may be useful to some riders who pair Garmin Edge with the KICKR as it took me a while to get it right.
Problem – For bikes which already have power meters, Garmin is not recording speed / cadence data during KICKR workouts
Why is this a problem – No speed data equals no distance data, which some people use to manage training load
Reason – As Ray rightly pointed out in the “really important bit”, as the back wheel is taken off, you wouldn’t have a magnet flying past the sensor to give you speed data from the bike’s speed/cadence sensor
Solution – Here are the steps you need to go through:
1) Take the bike to one side, so your Garmin can’t pick up any Ant+ feed from the bike
2) Turn on Wahoo KICKR and Garmin Edge, and create a new bike profile in Garmin (it’s under bike settings)
3) Search for a power meter sensor, this should then pick up the feed from KICKR which, VERY IMPORTANTLY, gives both power and speed data
4) Now bring over the bike and search for the speed/cadence sensor, which should be coming from the bike because KICKR can’t tell you about cadence
You are then good to go. So basically, Power Meter sensor should be linked to KICKR which gives you both speed and power, and speed/cadence sensor should point to the bike which gives you cadence.
I have used my kicker since last May and now it just started making a loud ringing noise while in use. Anyone else heard this?
I turned in a ticket so hope I get a response. When I get it solved I post again!
Jerry
How is the Wahoo Kickr for standing up on the pedals action? And simulate climbing? I have not used a trainer before, but when on the road i’m best at climbs, and I stand up a lot. Somewhere on this page I read that it is not recommended to do full power stand up action, cause of stress to the bike frame. Is this so?
I don’t see a major problem here. As long as don’t try to throw your bike to the left and right (like in a sprint) it should be fine. Hold your upper body in steady position and just work with your legs.
Does anyone else have problems doing short intervals in erg mode on trainer road? The kickr seems to take way too long to increase resistance and once it gets there lowers resistance too quickly if you increase cadence a bit and go over the set power.
Well this is the third day with support not solving my noise issue. This thing sounds like its falling apart inside. This is the second Kickr I’ve had. The first one would not work at all. I hope I’m not headed for #3. I have a ticket in and only one followup question to send a video, my follow up was did you get the video? No response.
While waiting for Wahoo Support, maybe some of you have comments:
I have used the KICKR for a month or so now. The first time I rode I was shocked by the noise it produced – it was jet-plane-level and I had to pedal 120 rpm to keep the watts at target. After this I have updated firmware and tried different apps.
By now the noise (and rpm) has gone down from airport-at-take-off to standard inside-some-factory.
I have noticed that when riding in ERG-mode in TrainerRoad I ride in e.g. Resistance-mode for a while -> shift to ERG and start the ride. In the first 30 seconds, it feels good and at a comfortable rpm, but hereafter I can not hold it (as in, the cadence is increasing). So I end up spinning high rpm trying to hold the watt target, even if it’s only 150W, and the noise goes way up!
Is it because I may push too hard in the beginning? Maybe the KICKR is not designed to let me go beyond the target, but if this is the case it should be on page one in every guide to riding it, as everybody must see this during their rides… How do you guys do the ERG-rides ?
Except for ERG-mode the KICKR is good and robust. But the main reason to replace my old Tacx was to ride intervals through apps like TrainerRoad. I had hoped I could be guided through the rides without manually adjusting the levels, which is also not possible at high watt numbers
The noise is bad, as it goes straight to my wife’s tinnitus. It is also bad in the sense that on my real bike I would locate the squeeking source and lubricate or replace. In this case: Where can I lubricate ?
So please help save my wife’s ears (and mine) and tell me if there is a solution for the noise levels I experience ?
Can I lubricate ? Any tips on how “to hit ERG-mode” ?
It’s hard to say without hearing it in person if the noise is non-normal. In general trainers are loud things, and as noted with the noise comparisons above, the KICKR isn’t exactly any different than others (different tones, but ultimately in the same range). There’s no method or way to reduce the noise of the trainer (applying lubrication would be bad!).
For ERG mode, it’s designed to maintain the same wattage. Assuming you’ve calibrated at some point, it’ll maintain that wattage quite well. Even without calibration, it would only be a small variance.
If you’re increasing cadence, that’s more a function of you/your body trying to compensate for fatigue (though, most people slow down cadence).
Finally, in looking at the latest workout you had listed, I might suggest that the workout structure (doing a light warm-up at 200w and then going straight to 300w) may be contributing to some of that inability to hold it later on. A more gradual warm-up might help.
Hopefully someone from support will contact you soon to sort out your issue, just wanted to add a few comments here.
1. ERG Mode – If you set KICKR to 200W in ERG mode, it will hold that value regardless off your cadence. You should never need to “spin out” to try and hold the wattage value, thats the point of ERG mode.
2. Noise – When in ERG mode, keep your bike in the granny gear, since ERG mode will hold the wattage regardless of the speed and/or cadence this will keep the noise at the minimum. The KICKR really shouldn’t be that loud, If you think its abnormal, do a video or sound recording and send it to our support.
Hi Ray
Regarding the noise – believe me, this is different than it should be. I will replay your sound comparisons later, but it is pain! For lubricating I meant inside the hub, not the belt of course.
ERG: I calibrate often, now that I feel there is a problem, but no change.
My ride that I link to : Epic Vermont – I start out in ERG and after 5:30 I can not stand it any more (noise/crazy cadence), so I shift into Resistance mode (spikes) and return to ERG again at 15 min (also shortly at 8:30). But again it does not feel natural (and wife comes by to complain: DANGER!!!) so at 18 min I switch to Resistance and put some variation in, now that I here anyway.
After this ride I started over again from the start at around 150W in ERG to test if KICKR was “warmed up” as you mention as potential problem: after 30 secs of genuine ERG riding it spin out and went loud…
I have had a TACX Cosmos for years. This can simulate ERG rides (but the watts are not high enough, and it is outdated technically), so I know an ERG when I “see one” 🙂
Is there some set amount of time one must cycle to “warm up” the KICKR (my basement is 60 degrees)? ERG mode is very erratic for around 8-10 minutes when I start up in the morning. I set the power to 100-130 and it bounces all over, from the 50’s up into the 200’s on occasion, and is rarely anywhere near the assigned power.
At first I thought it might be because I minimized the app to start a podcast but starting the podcast first today made no difference. Changing between modes and increasing/decreasing power has no effect either.
60F isn’t really that cold, i’m not sure what could cause it to be erratic for the first 10minutes.
Can you submit a ticket at our support site and someone will be able to walk you through some checks. Let them know your purchase date and location as well.
Shannon,
Did you ever sort this as my KICKR is now suffering the same effects.
It is in its 4th year and I have an open ticket with Wahoo but they have gone cold on me.
My KICKR in a garage and here in the UK its still above freezing but causing me issues.
I am running a beta software (KICKR16) on an original KICKR as instructed by Wahoo as this cuts out the strain gauge but found the only way to get it to work is warm it up for at least 10 minutes before I use it properly.
Something inside obviously no longer likes the cold. Once warm the strain gauge works fine
This is my second go around with Wahoo on support of my Kickr. This one email every couple of days is BS. I have voiced this before. I don’t care how covered up you folks are with the holidays lets take of the sales you have already made. I have left messages and used the ticket number response page on your web site and asked to call me. I know this site is not Wahoo but response time seems to be hurried along by posting here.
thanks for listening
Jerry
Well I must say Wahoo support is a disaster. I have been patient through two Kickrs and two attempts at support. The first last summer and now the present problem. I got a bunch of freebies the first time as an attempt at saying “sorry”. That doesn’t cut it. I have emailed, called and have got one response saying they want a video? and then another saying they haven’t received the email. Call me up and lets talk, how hard is that, I can crank the damn thing up let you hear it over the phone and we can then discuss it. WoW they really don’t have a handle on support do you think?
And I suppose just providing them with a video as they have requested so that they can study it to try and resolve your problem is just too much also – expecting them to be able to determine the issue over the phone where they have no idea what it is you are actually doing. Being reasonable works two ways!
Number one I did provide them with the video. Second it was a listening issue not a visual issue. Third they finally did hook up with me and I will be on my third Kickr. So your response is what, they have a great product.
What Wahoo has is a great concept, the products longevity and quality is questionable.
Wahoo has issues with support and quality control. Both have been recorded here. To reiterate the need for a telephone help line has been stated before as their email support isn’t working. If you email them to ask whats up please reply, your request is sent to the back of the line. This from supports own statement to me.
To comment further on my particular issue with the Kickr, I did have to call them on the help line to get satisfaction. The first thought was my noise was from a bad bearing in the larger diameter belt pulley. After discussing it with them it was determined that it was not. I had removed the belt and hand turned both the drum on the left side of the unit and the large belt pulley. The noise comes from inside the drum shaped unit on the left side,(standing behind the unit looking forward). Wahoo is not sure where its coming from. The solution is sending me my Third Kickr.
Could be a bad speed sensor. Get in line on the Wahoo support site and get a ticket number. Don’t email more than once as each email will send your request to the back of the line. In the meantime Hook your Kickr up and use the utility app and check your Kickr for connecting to your phone. You can also carefully remove the top of the angled upright and see if the sensor is plugged in. The sensor sees the black and white revolving round sticker on the large belt pulley.
I’ve had my KICKR for a month or so now and struggles with the simulation part and would like to hear your thoughts on how realistic the slope simulations are. ERG mode seems fine and I have done several calibrations etc. so I don’t think that the KICKR is faulty but feels the simulation needs some tweaking..
I have tried all the apps (Wahoo segments, Kinomap, VirtualTraining and Wahoo Fitness) and they all seems to give me too much resistance at any given slope (guess they use the same API logic for the simulation?). If I compare a Strava segment which I have ridden in real many times I constantly has to use several gears higher when riding the same segment on my KICKR. A slope above 6-7* forces me to use my highest/easiest gear which I wouldn’t need to in real.
Oscar, I just received my KICKR and feel the same way. It seems like all resistances are high compared to the wattage output. I’m having a hard time holding wattage levels that are usually no problem.
HI Ray, I did contact support. the only thing that changed recently is that i downloaded a cycling video from cyclefilms that i was trying to use with trainer road. I was never able to get it to work, but could not get power to display at all after. I can connect to the speed/cadence sensor as well as the kickr but when i attempt to do a spindown calibration no speed is shown.
On a separate note, I cannot fold the leg all the way in as it wont slide past the main wheel. Any thoughts? thanks–pat
Ray, I did ;). Thanks for your quick response. I just spoke to Megan at wahoo who thinks it may be due to an optical sensor that might have “popped” out of alignment (as Jerry diagnosed above). Have you ever heard of this? Makes me wonder if the fact that i can’t close the leg is related to the this. thanks–pat
Im a little confused about what leg you are talking about and what is stopping you from closing it, everything should have lots of clearance and don’t see how it could be related to the optical sensor.
Can you please send me some photos or video? murray @ our wahoo domain.
I’m having an issue with my KICKR where is locks up after a few seconds of riding. I have tried recalibrating through initiating a spin down but it doesn’t seem to fix the problem.
Did you ever find a solution to this? I’m having the same problem, calibration doesn’t work. The only way I can get this damn thing spinning is to be in the kickr screen of a workout. Once I can’t get power above 110 watts but can get up to 35kph in granny gear!
Please reach out to our customer support team at support.wahoofitness.com Be sure to include your KICKR serial number (located on the sticker under the flywheel) and any pertinent information about the issues you’re having. They will help trouble shoot the issue and get you up and running!
Thanks. Yeah I did, was just hoping for a quick fix. Looks like I just have one of the dud units which is a same because it was a REALLY costly (taxes and import fees) and time consuming exercise to import it into New Zealand so was actually hoping I could use it. I’m sure it will get sorted eventually though.
Wahoo Murray, Re the leg not fitting under the drum. It was definitely “user error” ;). I had my 700 bike set up on the 650 mark.
BIG SHOUT out to your colleagues Megan and Brad at wahoo fitness. They went over and above in “face timing” me to diagnose my optical sensor problem and shipped a replacement right out soo i wouldn’t miss my long bike workout on sunday.
Their exceptional customer service makes a GREAT product even BETTER. thanks–pat
Just throwing a note up here as I haven’t really seen it anywhere else, but I have the Kickr and have been using the virtual training software and have had problems with it. The software loses connection with the trainer pretty frequently. It also took 20-25 seconds for it to actually change the power on a workout I created. Not sure if it is something with the Kickr slow to change or the software slow to command, but it gets annoying. I am going to try other software suites, but I really love the ability to create virtual courses.
I’m training with both Trainerroad as Virtual Training. My experience is that the connection between de PC and de KICKR is great with Trainerroad, and it reacts very fast. I lost my connection just 1 time for a few seconds in the last three months.
.
but like all of us, we want to use video’s and TCX files from my own Garmin, so that’s why I use Virtual Training as well. It looks like the ANT+ connection disturbs the Wifi signal on Virtual Training, my internet connection lacks of signal when using Virtual Training (I want to turn on radio-player) so I went to bluetooth now and it is better a lot. But this is strange, because Trainerroad has no problems with Ant+ connection.
Virtual Training connection is lost frequently with my KICKR as well I can’t figure out why. I think there is a flaw in the software. Maybe the last update solved things for the better, I didn’t test it yet.
Overall I think that the hardware (KICKR) is fine but that the Virtual Training software being developed at this moment needs attention and it has some issues.
A thing that irritates me is that the video’s offered by Virtual Training are promised to be checked for quality. In the last months I didn’t see any video being checked anymore… This suprises me because I downloaded several video’s with a poor quality and poor height profile. Alp d’Huez has for example a really bad height profile. A kilometer 7% and then a kilometer about 14%, that just isn’t right! The lack of checking the video’s and providing good video’s and the loss of connection irritates me more and more.
Back to Trainerroad for me the coming months. It works flawless. I hope Virtual Training will concentrate on offering good quality riding video’s the next months and will fix the connection issue.
Hope they will pick it up from here. I can provide data from earlier training sessions when the connection drops.
had problems with quality of videos/profile in Virtual Training too…
Check out link to veloreality.com for really nice real life videos !
Though I don’t have my kickr yet (in the mail 🙂 ), I use it with e-motion rollers and my powertap and love it… I’ve done the Stelvio, tourmalet, Izoard, Ventoux etc… but with the kickr the resistance will adjust with the grade.
@Matthijs,
I have been using VirtualTraining a couple of times (different vid’s) and I noticed unexpected drops in resistance as well as trainer disconnects. Everything connected via ANT+ (Trainer, HR and Cadence). About a week ago I did SF Tour from VT: 2 disconnect, 5 resistance drops. I have asked support at VT and today he sent me a message with a ANT+ test version (basically generating a log file with all ANT+ communication). this is the link, I am not sure though if this thread is accessable by others. You might want run a test with this version and send back the logfile to developer. link to support.virtualtraining.eu
Mazzel, cheers, Dick
Wonder if anyone is having this issue with the Wahoo fitness app and controlling the KICKR…
When I go to the “Control the KICKR” page, it does not resemble the above images, and I can not manipulate any of the control features. My control page has a “Preview” icon, where the review images (so I’ve been told) does not. I am using VoiceOver, but even with this turned off a sighted individual can not work the page either, and I’ve been told by tech support that they can work the page with VoiceOver enabled. I do have the display page turned on in the workout settings, and toggling this switch on or off does not change the usability of the page. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the great review. Have a new kicker and really am impressed with the accurate power and cadence readings. However the speed indication is definitely off. Riding thousands of miles a year I know exactly what 15-16mph feels like, for example, and the Wahoo Fitness app tells me I’m doing 11-12. Have tried the spin down calibration several times before workout, after workout, etc. Am I missing something…is there a way to tweak this setting?
If you are running in ERG mode, just select a higher gear. It may take a little trial and error with different ratios, however, I find that the 39 x 17 gives me a pretty close approximation of my road miles. I’m pretty sure the integral speed sensor is intended to calculate output watts and I’d assume not necessarily for reporting an accurate real-world speed.
In ERG mode the goal of the trainer is to maintain the same power output at and cadence and gear (on your bike). For this reason the speed of the rear wheel will not match your outdoor speed. I personally keep my bike in the granny gear when in ERG mode as this reduces the speed of the flywheel and reduces noise. We do have some new firmware coming out that will simulate speed in ERG mode, but generally when training in ERG mode you don’t worry about speed / distance.
In simulation mode, your speed should match your outside experience.
Thanks, that might just be the ticket. Can’t find a gear selection toggle in Wahoo Fitness or Wahoo Utility apps though…are you using a different app to control your kickr?
I’m using TrainerRoad, however, the gear selection I was referring to is your actual gear selected on the bike. In ERG mode it will adjust watts independent of your gear selection or cadence, i.e. if it is set to 300 watts it doesn’t matter if you are in the 39 x 21 or any gear up to the 53 x 12, it will immediately readjust so you are always working at the prescribed setting of 300 watts.
Wahoo tends to recommend running in the big chainring to get the most realistic road feel. Since I’m uploading my rides to my Strava log it was making my hour rides look like I was cranking out a distance of 28 miles so I have found a smaller gear works better for keeping my logs honest. I think mileage is really unimportant when training with power on the KICKR but having an entry in log gives me a higher level of satisfaction as I toil away the winter in my basement.
Got my kickr today and wonder what would be the signs of a bad sensor alignement ?
My kickr seems to underestimate watts by more than 60-70 watts from my powertap…
I have trouble keeping 170w in erg mode on trainerroad (my ftp is 220-230w with powertap) and also got a couple of connection loss…
watts are also very erratics with veloreality software going form 50w to 124w while I keep a steady effort that seems more like a 180w to me….
Download the Wahoo Utility app and perform a spindown calibration. While doing this, watch the speed numbers displayed in the app. If they appear unstable and are jumping up and down then that is a good sign you might have an issue with your speed sensor. Reach out to our support team and they can help you troubleshoot and fix any issues!
@ Brad : Yes ! it is exactly what it does… up and down when coasting…
I’already open a ticket yesterday on the support site waiting for a reply.
Thanks !
hope that is something I can fix myself and not ship back…
Ok super fast service for sending me the replacement sensor cap. (great !)
easy installation. Calibration now normal, BUT when I try to ride the damn thing after that (either on wahoo fitness, trainerroad, veloreality) the kikcr just hardens up after 8-9 seconds to max resistance and I can’t do anything after that…
what am I missing here ??????????????
Really-really-really pissed-off with this….
Simon – I had the same problem with my KICKR. The resistance would increase to 100% after about 6 seconds. Wahoo sent me a replacement and everything works okay.
Ok got this sorted out with the help of the guya at wahoo (very fast to answer, even on christmas day !)
The new sensor cap was not programmed correctly. I was able to download an iphone app to reprogram it correctly and now it works great !
Did the mortirolo on veloreality and legs are burning for sure 😉
Love the feeling of the kickr !
After reading (and rereading) the review, and all of the comments, I have decided to try the Wahoo Kickr as my indoor trainer. The main reasons are it will support my Alpha MIO (only HR appliance that works for me) and the Kickr doesn’t chew up tires.
I plan to stick — for now — with my Garmin Edge 810/Vector pedals for my outdoor rides. True, I won’t be able to record my HR for outdoor rides (although I will be able to monitor it on my wrist). I am more interested in HR for the training session.
With that as my sole use case (for now) I *think* all I need to order is the Kickr Power Trainer. Is that correct? I’ll get power from the Kickr, cadence from my Vector pedals, HR from my Alpha MIO.
Let me know if I am missing something. Like, perhaps I cannot use the Vector pedals for cadence in this situation?
To this I will add the cool stand Ray references for the iPad, and choose a 3rd-party training app (like Training Road).
I am all ears — let me know if I am making any mistaken assumptions here.
I’m not familiar with your HR monitor or the Vector pedals but I can comment on TrainerRoad. They currently do not have an iOS application so you’ll need to run it on a MacBook or PC with either BlueTooth 4 Smart or the ANT+ dongle. TrainerRoad reports that they are or will be working on an iOS version in the early part of 2014. You can use your iOS device to run the Wahoo Fitness app or Kinomap (there are probably others to add).
Cadence from Vector won’t end up in apps like Kinomap or the Wahoo Fitness app without the iPhone ANT+ adapter (since the cadence is ANT+). However, if you take the USB ANT+ adatper from your Vector set and add it to your computer (PC/MAC), it will work with TrainerRoad.
Correct, there’s no regular apps I’m available out there today that can do multiple power meter stream recordings. I use some special tools to do it for reviews. Someday…
ipWatts & my old xperia mini Android phone do the job. Works fine, pairs multiple powermeters and outputs everything into a CSV file. But wouldn’t recommend it as everyday headunit. Am using it only for comparisons.
We have some new firmware for the KICKR about to come out that will “borrow” the cadence from a crank based power meter if it is seen, this way you will get Power, Speed and Cadence all from the KICKR connection.
A question for any of the Wahoo guys as have had no luck with your support. I ordered a Kickr from Wahoo Australia to ship to NZ 2 weeks ago and have had no contact or shipping info sent since I paid through Paypal at the time (Order #400000466). It seems a bit odd to take 2 weeks to ship from the warehouse if you have them in stock. All I want is some indication of when this may ship. Are you are having supply difficulties? It would be good to know but support has been somewhat unhelpful. Just emailing ‘your order is being processed’ tells me nothing…
The item is in NZ customs (since Tuesday), You didn’t get the tracking number because we process NZ orders manually, I just sent you the tracking number via your support ticket.
Hi!! , I´ve just bought the kickr to use it with trainerroad and windows xp, after installing trainer road on my pc it seems like it does not find the wahoo kickr via bluetotth I can only search it using ant + as a powermeter. So I can use trainerroad using ant + but I can not connect to the kicker via bluetooth. Could you please help me out?
I´m thinking about getting an air pad air to use it with the kickr, but it is not compatible with trainerroad, so the question is wich is the idela platform the use bot the trainer road and the kickr???
Your Windows computer may not have Bluetooth 4.0 (BT Smart). For TrainerRoad I would recommend using the ANT+ key on your Windows machine regardless. As long as you have the latest KICKR firmware, you will have all the same functionality as you would with a Bluetooth 4.0 connection. I’m not certain if the guys at TR have integrated BT4.0 on Windows at this point. Perhaps someone could chime in who knows this?
I don’t use a Windows machine so I can’t confirm that it works but it looks like the latest TrainerRoad beta release is attempting to add Bluetooth on Windows presumably would still require the NetGear BT4 USB stick. link to facebook.com
Hoping someone can clarify this for me: I’m using TrainerRoad with The Sufferfest – Cycling Training Videos loaded up, in conjunction with a Wahoo KICKR. It almost works like I was hoping. I’ve just completed the Angels workout, and was disappointed to find that resistance of the KICKR was not automatically adjusted…ever. Is that normal? What am I missing?
1. Is that Wahoo Kicker paired in the TrainerRoad config.
2. Can you do a spin down?
3. When you started the video with TR, check the bottom left to make sure it says ERG mode and not Level
Thanks, Murray. Yes, paired AOK. I was able to do two FTP tests with the TR software no problem. Spindown was AOK as well. Mode? That very well could be the culprit. I started in ERG mode, but switched to resistance and standard at some point. Is ERG a requirement for the entire workout?
For something like a Sufferfest video you would normally leave it in ERG mode all the time. The resistance will only change automatically when in ERG mode. If you do switch it to Level mode of a effort, you just need to make sure you switch it back to ERG mode. You would also switch it to level mode if you are doing a 5/10/30min test, TR does this automatically for any of the test workouts.
I just received my Wahoo Kickr, placed my Trek Speed Concept 9.9 with DI2 onto the trainer, and the Kickr is making an excessive chain/cassette noise on 80% of the cogs.
FYI, my bike is fully tuned up and not making any noise with the wheel. Shouldn’t the shifting and 11×25 cassette alignment (on my Trek wheel) be identical to the Kickr cassette?
The skewer is tight and the bike is fully on the drop downs. I’ve put it on and off several times. The Kickr fit is proper and snug. Help
I experienced that the cassette on the KICKR is just out of line with my cassette on my road wheel. A few turns on the plastic adjustment knob on the back of your derailer should fix the problem. Don’t turn the screws on your derailer because that adjust how far the derailer goes to either side! About 2-3 clicks did it for me. (can’t remember how much)
Many thanks for your feedback and advice. I’m not sure my DI2 derailer system on the Trek Speed Concept 9.9 has a “plastic adjustment knob.” As you said, I definitely don’t want to turn the screws because my road wheel is perfectly in tune with my bike. Do you have the DI2 derailer system? It’s a bit different to make adjustments.
Ah ok, I didn’t notice the DI2 in your post. Then this solution doesn’t work. but adjustment is needed so I found this video. Maybe it helps, although it doesn’t help you with not wanting to make adjustments.
I don’t know why the setting on the KICKR is different. Maybe when placing the same cassette as it has on your bike will solve the problem, but I am not sure. I know that the shimano Ultegra cassette has an additional ring between the hub and the largest cog. If they let it out on the KICKR (because you don’t have to bother hitting spokes with your derailer), the difference may appear. Otherwise I don’t know what is causing the difference.
Check out the park tool di2 installation instructions at the link below and do a search for ‘Figure 30’. This will instruct you on how to make micro-adjustments to align your rear derailleur with the sprockets on the Kickr (equivalent of using a barrel adjuster). It’s pretty quick and easy, but it would still be nice if I didn’t have to do it every time I switched from the road to the Kickr. The best way to fix this would be some sort of micro-spacer to go behind the cassette (kind of like the .25mm spacers you can get for a headset), however, no such spacer seems to exist.
Thanks so much for your research, and for the link to parktool figure 30. It was very helpful. Yes, micro spacers would be great! The other alternative is to simply buy an 11 cog Shimano cassette and take of the 10 speed cassette from Kickr. Candidly, Kickr should ask its customers upon checking out what type of cassette they want/prefer.
If you are running a 11-Spd system you will want to swap the cassette, the 10-spd cassette that comes with the KICKR will not be compatible with your gearing or chain.
You can buy any 11-spd SRAM or Shimano cassette and it will be compatible with the KICKR, here is some more information on replacing the cassette.
Hi Ray, Thanks for the great review. I’m ordering one of these as soon as I can convince my wife that it will be able to be stored in the space I have earmarked for it. With this in mind any idea what the folded dimensions are?
Cheers
Rob
I just got the kickr and set it up. but after a few pedalstrokes the resistance jumps up to infinite. I don’t have any Cadence connected (I want to use my SRM Crank and PC7 which has it’s own Cadence).
Is it possible, that the kickr doesn’t work without cadence feedback?
Just picked up a Kickr. Debating between Cyclops and Kinomap virtual training software. Does anyone have experience with these and can give a recommendation? Does Kinomap support ERG mode with power when riding a course or is it just speed/cadence based?
Hi Ray and all the guys, great rewiew. I read all and i have some question to be sure i’ve understand. I have a tacx fortius and i don’t use it anymore because of the spin of the tyre , simply impossible when you push or train hard. I need to find a trainer that
1) can give a great effort, not like a spin bike but similar ( how about the kickr in the manual mode with the whaoo app? You can really stop the wheel?) to do interval training and train the force.
2) can simulate a track , imported by a Garmin or created, with a maximum of real effort on the climbing , also if you run a 15% climb or like that ( i read your rewiew of the cycle ops virtual trainer and i think it’s quinte good, segments maybe not so good again) for the day when you stay home.
Before reading your rewiew i ve been thinking about a real power elite that could simulate , if it is true, a 20% of slope, but i ‘mi scared about the tyre, maybe you know something about the spin in that trainer. Anyway it’s too similar at the fortius, closed software, no feeling with a rear tyre. Now i think i Will buy a kickr if you or Whaoo Brad or Murray can confirme that kickr can do now or in few month what i’m searching.
If i buy the kickr at the apple store online in italy , i can buy other whaoo sensors at amazon to support the site?
Thanks
Hi,
I’m using a SRM Powermeter and would therefore like to know, if the SRM headunit (PC7) is able to use the speed output of the kickr and moreover the other way around, if the kickr is able to use the SRM cadence signal.
I don’t want to install another cadence sensor, so if the SRM signal is not useable, will the kickr work anyway?
Concerning the training, how can you change the power in the erg-mode? Is it possible with sweaty fingers on the iPad or can you even use Siri? Is it possible to do 45s intervals with 500W and in between 5min intervals with 150W or will the change take too long and will just set me up during the training session?
And my last question: In which mode can I perform a max sprint training which would include 10s all out sprints, as I could do it outside on the road?
Thank you very much in advance for your help and for providing this really cool side!
iMobileIntervals has the following features SRM users (and Quarq and Stages users) will like:
* iMobileIntervals is the only app that supports connecting to BOTH the KICKR and a power meter, which is what you need in order to use the cadence from the SRM.
* You can set the app to use the power coming from the powermeter for display and recording.
* You can set a global offset watts value for the KICKR, allowing you to align your powermeter with the KICKR. i.e. you may find that the SRM consistently reads 10 watts more than the KICKR. Consequently your ERG workouts, if they are adjusted correctly for your SRM, are being run 10 watts TOO HARD. You can adjust up the KiCKR by 10 watts and not touch your workout. This also aligns the data you receive from the KICKR with your SRM, so that you have consistency across indoor and outdoor workouts.
To help with your non-SRM-specific needs, iMobileIntervals lets you configure complicated ERG workouts based on Coggan zone, watts or % FTP and have the app change the intervals for you, with voice prompting if you like. This is similar to how Computrainer has always worked, and its vastly superior to manually changing your erg watts (though the app allows you to do that as well).
You can also do mixed ERG and fixed resistance intervals (e.g. 10 sec with the intensity zone set to “Max”, which uses a predefined fixed resistance), or open-ended intervals that terminate with +- N heart rate or a lap button press.
The iMobileInterval.com website also has an ERG/MRC file importer that will take Computrainer workouts and easily convert them to native iMobileIntervals workouts.
Thanks iMobileIntervals for your help and quick answer!
That really sounds interesting. Is there also the possibility, that the SRM takes over actively the control of the KICKR? In a way that it will directly use the Poweroutput of the SRM to calibrate the brake of the KICKR to it?
No, the ERG resistance adjustment is internal to the WahooFitness API; The app tells the KICKR via the API “I want to stick to 200 watts”, then the API handles that, and independently its also reporting back the power just like a regular power meter. Its not our app saying, “Oh, you are making too few watts, I’m going to increase resistance.” That’s how it would have to be for the app to use the SRM power to make the adjustment.
first of all, I am very happy with my wahoo kicker and in the past 3 months since I own it, Id did not have any issues with it. However, after my training today I noticed that one of the small screws on the rotor was almost falling out. The rest of the screws were quite loose. some questions to this:
– could you tell me how to fix this? can i fix them myself and if yes, with which NM to use?
– did this issue influence the wattage measurements?
thanks in advance for your help. in following link you see the issue:
With the Wahoo Kickr not available on Amazon or through Clever Training, where is the best place to pick one up? Anywhere offer discounts we can use or that support the site?
I’m moving forward this week in purchasing the Kickr. I’ve thought this over for the past 3 months, and weighed the pro’s and con’s thoroughly. What i need now is the “extra’s” to make this thing work.
If someone can comment on what i need, based what i have that would be great.
1. I have an Ipad2 – I don’t want to spend 400-500 on a new Ipad3. If I read DC Rainmakers review correctly, all i need is an ANT adapter for the ipad2 and i’ll be able to have full capabilities. Is that correct?
2. I have a garmin 310XT, do i need this or a new garmin head since i can use one of the several apps?
3. I have a garmin speed cadence sensor attached to my bike. Since the kicker replaces the back wheel, does/will the garmin cadence sensor still track cadence and speed on the kickr? If so how. Is there a way of calculating speed in MPH with this garmin cadence speed through the kickr? What device would i need in order to do this?
1. You just need the “Wahoo ANT+ Key” and you will have full control with the iPad2. You will not have firmware update function so you might need to have a friend with a new iOS device to keep up to date on firmware.
2. You can use the Garmin 310XT to view the power/speed from the KICKR. You cannot control the KICKR from a Garmin.
3. You can setup your Garmin and iPad only to use the Cadence from the Speed/Cadence sensor and your Speed/Power will come from the KICKR.
I’ve just bought the KICKR, and have looked at all these fee for subscription services and apps…but I’ve not found one that simply lets you upload your already painstakingly paired video/gps files. I have many HD videos already linked up to the gpx data from my garmin (using dashware). Is there an app or software that will just let me control the KICKR with those, because that would be awesome and less cumbersome than the alternatives.
I dont mind subscribing to a service to get videos of places I havent been and such, I just dont want to have to reinvent the wheel for the ones I have, especially considering my upcoming training rides I’ve mapped/video’d, edited, and mixed already.
Hi again,
my KICKR arrived today and at the moment I’m struggling to get it paired with my SRM PC 7. I just need to get out an ANT+ speed signal out of it to be able to calibrate my SRM powermeter.
But the KICKR does not seem to send a speed signal. Also my Suunto Ambit 1 does not find anything.
What am I doing wrong?Could someone please help me?
The KICKR broadcasts as an ANT+ power meter, not an ANT+ speed sensor. Within the ANT+ power meter stream, it broadcasts speed. It doesn’t broadcast speed by itself.
Then I understood the comment #860 wrongly.
So in this case I have to use an additional sensor to attach it for example near the rim wheel am glue a magnet to the wheel?
Now, could someone of Wahoo make a guess when the software change is going to be performed?
It would really be a great feature, if the Kickr would broadcast a ANT+ Speed signal.
Thanks in advance for implementing it!
I got a Kickr for X-mas and was so excited to get it up set up after being gone on vacation. Ok so here I am…. Kickr and free cadence sensor set up flawless with wahoo app….. I do question the power a lil…. when I’m about 70 plus RPM and boost the wattage, just to see what the wattage does I purposely backed off to see if the wattage drops but it actually stay close to the same wattage with much less effort for sustained time.
I cannot for the life of me get Wahoo to respond with any customer support…I even have a case file #. Is anyone else having this issue both with Kickr wattage discrepancy and lack of response from Wahoo? Ive even threatened so send it back and still no response. Its unfortunate because I believe it just needs some fine tuning but don’t know how to do that. Ive already done a couple of spin down test with the utilities app.
Also one last thing… I purchased Wahoo Segments app. I can beat anyones KOM anywhere around the world… I didn’t think I was that good. Can someone honestly tell me that app is even the slightest accurate. Also another question I had for wahoo with no response….
Anyway Im not trying to complain…. I’m just looking for help.
Thanks,
Brian
Ray, thanks a lot for all of your efforts with the blog. You help to make the sport much more accessible for all of us newcomers!
I have decided to go ahead and get the KICKR.
I currently do not have an iDevice, however. From reading the blog, I know that all of the information from my Garmin devices (HR Strap, Speed/cadence sensor, …) will be combined with the speed/power information from the KICKR and sent to my my Garmin Edge. I know also that I can control the KICKR with my pc with ANT+ USB and now through beta version of the Wahoo Android app (since I have an Android phone). Since it’s now been about 10 months since the initial piece, some of the information is understandably dated, because there has been so much change over that time period. I’m just wondering, as it stands today, do I miss out on any features of the unit or 3rd party apps if I do not have an iPad.
Thanks.
Sean
Good day Sean, No – you don’t miss anything as far as I am concerned. I do have an iPad but am never using it with the KICKR. Personally I prefer TrainerRoad for OSX (for training/workouts based on power) and VeloReality (Win7) for HiRes Virtual Reality training – awesome videos from alpe d’Huez, Mont Ventoux, Majorca and more. Also VirtualTraining (Win7) is definitely worth to take a look at. Cheers. Dick
Wahoo called me back to help answer the questions I needed answered in reguards to my KICKR trainer… Everything is good and look forward to trying some other software like Trainer rode etc.
BEWARE OF WAHOO
I called Wahoo twice after problems with my kickr, never a call back! How’s that for a $1000+ product? Then I noticed that there’s a Wahoo rep on this site and DC is active in selling this product…OH, and he’s on their web site, too…
Then I started looking up REAL reviews and had to read things like this (slowtwitch triathon forum):
My experience. I’m a CT Lab & 2 SRM owner as well as a recent (last 3 weeks) Kickr owner.
1st Kickr would increase the resistance to the point that I could not pedal and power numbers that I did get to compare were off. I think the increasing resistance was due to the kickr reporting falling wattage (I could see the wattage dropping in the software as the resistance kept going up) so the software kept increasing the resistance. Funny thing is I could almost always make this happen by bumping the wattage just over 150 watts. So they sent me a new one. 🙂
2nd Kickr DOA. Didn’t report speed or power. So they sent me a new one. 🙂
3rd Kickr. Seems to work much better than the first two. Haven’t had enough time to really test everything but I have been testing the accuracy and precision. What I’m finding is not good IMHO. My SRM on my CT Lab normally reads about 8 watts higher than the CT setting and that’s simply due to drive train losses. Nothing unusual there. In fact they seem to be in very good agreement. In a nutshell I’ve seen up to 28 watts less power from my Kickr than what it was set for. So at 160 watts the Kickr was actually only producing 132 watts.
I want to make it clear that I’m not finished testing, I’ve only performed very limited testing and there is always the possibility that my SRM even though it tracks very well with my CT Lab may be off. I will be attempting to verify the accuracy and precision of my SRM over the next week or so.
In addition to seeing the Kickr under produce (I’ve never seen it over produce) power it also appears to get worse the faster you are going. If speed is low the difference is less. As speed increases the difference get worse. I personally don’t like the feel of the Kickr when I’m in my big chain ring and lowest gear. Speed is typically around 13-14mph. Just feels strange or a little choppy. I don’t feel that at faster speeds. Even on my CT I typically try to ride at 18-20 mph. Should be noted that I very rarely use anything but ERG mode so speed and power should not be related.
DCRainmaker posted his power data and everything looked pretty good. Not sure why mine doesn’t. ”
Then I tried to contact dealers in my area (the ones according to Wahoo’s list), not a single one was carrying the kickr)…
Oh, I scanned their QR code in, too, in hopes to get to a nice online manual (would be appropriate for such a product, wouldn’t it?). It sends you to their public Wahoo kickr sales page. Their kickr support page is a JOKE.
WTF WAHOO?????????????
So, if you are interested in headaches, and would like to lose some money, time and nerves, then I highly recommend this product! Otherwise I would stay far far away from it, faaaaaaaaar away from it and the crooks who produce this POS!
Pardon my french…
I don’t have any affiliation with Wahoo. Like all products I review here, I go out and get them through normal retail channels afterward I review and send back said product. If they quote a portion of whatever I write here, that’s fine – many companies do. I don’t care one way or another, and certainly don’t get paid for it.
As for Wahoo folks reading and responding to comments here, they do that here and other places where users congregate. Seems like a good thing that Wahoo hangs out on various forums, doesn’t it? Or am I missing some evil conspiracy theory?
Actually, hold on. I just realized you copied and pasted nearly an entire post from a Slowtwitch post of someone else’s from back 7 months ago into the above.
Then, you added the little snippet at the beginning going all conspiracy theory, as well as a little snippet at the end because you were upset that when you scanned the QR code on the box it went to the Wahoo Sales site instead of the PDF manual.
And then you were upset because your local bike shops made a decision (for whatever reason) to not stock the KICKR.
Sorry, I just had to make sure I had that all clear in my head.
In any case, I’m sure if you were to drop your Wahoo ticket # here, they’d probably track down why you haven’t had a call back. Though, I could see how even that that might upset you since you were upset Wahoo was trying to be proactive in other forums and help folks out.
First, sorry you seem to be having issue. We don’t have 24h/7 phone support, so the best way is to submit a support ticket and then try and ring. If its urgent you can post your problem here and someone might be able to help out. I suggest only posting your own problems and not copy/pasting from other peoples posts, it makes it very hard to work out what your problem is. I’m still not actually sure what is wrong.
You will notice the main people that post here and slowtwitch are Myself and Chip, we are not customer service or marketing, just 2 engineers that enjoy helping people out when we have some spare time. I am sure most people enjoy the interaction they have with us, you don’t normally get a chance to interact with the inventors and engineers of products. I’m sorry that you seem offended by this.
Second, Wahoo Fitness does not have any affiliation with Ray. Ray is one of very few reviewers that actually reviews products and if you look at his site he some some of the most detailed and honest reviews in the world. Alot of blog sites just re-write media releases. While we do have a very good relationship with Ray its because we make awesome products that he loves, although no matter how friendly we are, if Ray didn’t like something we did, he would tell the world, read some of his reviews, he isn’t scared to tell it how it is.
I’m not really sure what your beef is with our support site, that link does does you to a getting started page and we also have lots of other KICKR topics in our Knowledge Base, link to support.wahoofitness.com
So Markus, please submit a support ticket and post you problem and someone might be able to help, accusing and insulting everyone that is trying to help isn’t going to get you very far.
The whole post is written by me except one snipplet from another forum. There are many more, but obviously I cannot post them all here.
The fact is that I bought this POS for more than $1000, it’s faulty and I have received ZERO support! I posted this snipplet,too , because I have the exact same problem (besides some others with this product)
Btw, this is where the QR code leads to:link to wahoofitness.com
Now you show me where the PDF manual is
If you are independent the why are you so defensive? And btw, the fact that Wahoo lists stores (in my case Boulder/Denver area) that don’t even stock the product shows that they don’t even maintain their web site. Just look at the main order button “preorder”…Really?
I wasted my time calling these stores because I thought they might help me…
As a general rule, I’m going to defend against things that are incorrect. In this case, you started off implying some sort of relationship with Wahoo – which I don’t.
As for local stores not stocking products, there’s a difference between having in stock, and being a distributor. Most local bike shops can’t afford to stock everything (since they pay upfront), and thus, stock on demand.
Again, I’d suggest if you have an issue to file a support ticket. I’d agree calling and getting an answer should have been simple enough, but having a support ticket is trackable. If you open up a support case with them, and don’t see a reasonable response – then, feel free to come back here and post your case # here and I’m sure someone will follow-up.
Problem: KICKR connects but no speed or watt and therefore no resistance.
After 14 weeks this happened to me in the middle of an interval. Tried everything but nothing worked. After reading all the above comments it looked like the optical speed sensor. Wahoo support got back to me in 18 hrs and said to try and push the speed sensor cap down see link
So I took a look at the non drive side and noticed a black white disc that had a circle of dust on it. I cleaned the dust off, did a spin down and no more problem.
For me the ability to set watts in erg mode and use any cadence make this the best tool out there for doing intervals. You can do power intervals at high resistance and low cadence or tempo intervals at lower watts and higher cadence. I do recovery and spin ups (no resistance, high as possible cadence) on e-motion rollers.
Bought the KICKR on your recommendation Ray. Thanks!
Group – if you are looking for Virtual Reality cycling indoors, have a look at link to veloreality.com
The videos are HD and of great quality, they have about 40 now, among them Alpe d’Huez, Mont Ventoux, Stelvio. I have done a couple of them now, and its pretty cool, no – its awesome.
The software is Win7 and is free – you pay per movie (10 Euro)
Apologies for being enthusiastic – just sharing my experience. Tomorrow the Stelvio 🙂
Thanks Simon Villeneuve for the hint. Cheers
Wahoo, I posted a slightly combative comment back in September(?) regarding the quality of the Kickr. I asked that Wahoo note the solutions to posted questions so that potential buyers could see how the product is progressing with those issues. I wanted to buy the Kickr but was concerned about some of the comments on this site. Wahoo stated that this is not really the place to address those solutions and I guess I agree since there are just to many variables as to why a product may have issues.
Needing a trainer I finally bought the KICKR in late November and figured I should post a comment as a follow up to my September post. So far I love it. I use it with both Trainerroad and my Iphone. For me it worked fine out of the box, which was my main concern, and has every day since. I plan to start using videos and really looking forward to them for the long New England Winter. As most have said the Erg mod is what I use the majority of the time and compared to standard trainer it is worth every single penny I paid for it. I am a numbers guy and the feedback on each workout forces me to work harder and harder.
Hi.
Can anybody explain me the spindown calibration funktion.
Does the calibration follow the Kickr or the tablet/phone?
Said another Way. Can I do the spindown using my phone, and Then use kinomap on my ipad?
Hi.
Can anybody explain me the spindown calibration funktion.
Does the calibration follow the Kickr or the tablet/phone?
Said another Way. Can I do the spindown using my phone, and Then use kinomap on my ipad?
Hey Murray.
Thanks for the Quick answer and allso Thanks for a great produkt. I love the Kickr.
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Hi, I ‘m just looking for a new trainer , the wahoo KICKR would be perfect. The only thing that keeps me from buying one is the compatibility with Android. I have a Nexus 7 with Android 4.3 and really just Android devices. You are about to develop an Android interface . When this is done , I can then use the KICKR as with Apple, or do I have to cut back ?
Hey Werner,
That is correct, we are close to releasing a beta for Android 4.3 devices with Bluetooth 4.0, which includes the latest Nexus 7 (the older models don’t have BT 4.0). The app will allow full control over the KICKR, just like the Wahoo Fitness app for the iPhone.
Hi Ray,
Love the post and my kickr just arrived! I’m having a problem finding the kickr via GOlden Cheetah. I have the latest version (June 2013, 3.0). WHen I go to “add device wizard” the kicker isn’t there. Am I missing something, or do you have any insights? The other 3 options are there (Robot is also missing)
THanks in advance
Hi
Will the combination iPad 2 / iPhone 4 plus the wahoo ant+ dongle be able to control the kickr in every aspect ? I.e. resistance etc. if not what is the cheapest solution ?
Thanks
Dana
Hi Dana,
That setup will work great with the Wahoo Fitness app. The only thing to note is than you will need a device with Bluetooth 4.0 to update the firmware. The process takes about 2-3 minutes and the app for updating is free!
Best regards,
Brad
Ray
Another fantastic review, I am trying to purchase the trainer through your link but it seems as they aren’t selling it anymore.
anyway to purchase it and support the site?
Vernon
Hi Vernon-
In talking with Clever Training tonight they removed the listing due to lack of fulfillment of an outstanding order for KICKR’s from Wahoo Fitness. Clever Training decided to pull future KICKR sales until Wahoo would commit to fulfilling the previously placed order, in order to ensure nobody got in a spot where they couldn’t fulfill the product. Hopefully this will get sorted out in the coming days. Sorry for the trouble – and I greatly appreciate you supporting the site.
Thanks!
I just purchased through clever training last week. Kickr already arrived! Try contacting them directly, great service.
Hi
After studying the various comments I discover that in order to calibrate, update the firmware and to control the KICKR Bluetooth 4.0 iOS (greater than 4s and iPad 3) is a MUST. Since I have neither one and have just bought a KICKR I am VERY disappointed that I need to buy a phone now to make proper use of the KICKR. It should be clearly stated that BT 4.0 is needed to use the KICKR.
My KICKR came uncalibrated and locks up after 3-5 pedal rotations in order to do a spin down/calibration I need a iOS BT 4.0 device now!!! I hope there is.workaround ?
Hi Dana,
Sorry for the confusion, we are working on a full feature matrix for the website that should clear some things up.
The only feature you need a iOS BT4.0 device for is Firmware Updates, everything else can be done via a iOS device, Windows, OSX and soon Android.
If you are using a iOS device and a ANT+ dongle the best app to do a calibration/spindown is the WahooFitenss app, you can access the calibration via the quick settings cog on the workout page.
If you are using Windows/OSX then you could use TrainerRoad. You can access calibration from the device screen and from the bottom of the workout screen.
Let me know your setup and I can give you some more details.
Regards
Hi Mike
I have both an iPhone 4 and an IPad 2 with the Wahoo Gym and Fitness Pack. Furthermore an Edge 500. I would like to control resistance with this setup. Is it possible (using the Wahoo Fitness App).
Thanks.
Dana,
You can use the full selection of iOS apps to control (and do spindowns). You can check the KICKR website for a updated list, but right now thats the Wahoo Fitness app, iMobileIntervals and Kinomap.
You can use your Garmin to log workouts, but not control.
You will not be able to do firmware updates, firmware doesn’t come out that often, maybe you have a friend with a newer iOS device that you could borrow if we release something new in the future.
Hope that helps.
I’m now seriously thinking of buying a Kickr.
I’m based in the UK – has anyone bought one from the Apple UK store yet.
Also I have an iphone 3G – will I need to buy a new iphone to control the Kickr or can I do it via laptop and ANT usb stick?
Cheers
Hi Earl,
Not many iPhone apps still support the iPhone 3G. I think your best bet would be using your laptop with a ANT+ USB Key (Garmin or Suunto are both fine). You get a great selection of software as well.
Thanks
Dear Murray
Thanks!
Ordered from Clever Training last week…now they say they don’t have any units and don’t know when they’ll get them. Quite frustrating…
Ordered one last week as well. They charged my CC and said there is no projected ship date.
I’m giving them through today to give me a reasonable fulfill date, and if not I’m cancelling the order.
You should receive an e-mail (if you haven’t yet already) this morning from Clever Training that your order will be fulfilled in the coming days. Yesterday Wahoo agreed to ship out the previously ordered KICKR’s. Thanks for the support!
I am the same boat with you all….looking like they will ship sometime next week.
Thank you Ray for all the great information day in and out. I am happy to support the site…
DC, Thanks for the follow-up. Received the email from Clever this morning with shipping info for next week. Now, if my IPad shows up at the same time, I’m all set. Great info on the site – love the reviews.
Just spoke with Clever and my Kickr shipped on the 24th and am awaiting my tracking number email.
I just got a KICKR and am enjoying it. Something I am missing (or maybe don’t see in the existing information) is a way to have the KICKR change resistance based on heart rate. It’s got a great setting for doing that with ergs/watts, but I’m more of a novice biker and right now I’m focusing on building my ergs while maintaining in a heart rate zone. It’d be great if the KICKR had that option. Maybe I missed how to achieve that and if so a heads up would be great. Also, the blog descriptions of setup really helped. Thanks!
Might be a stupid question, but do you guys unplug the trainer when not in use?
I leave mine plugged in most of the time, won’t do any harm. If I remember I like to switch it off at the wall to save a little power. (Very little)
Doesn’t look like Clever Training has Kickr on site right now? Still catching up to orders?
They’re waiting until shipment confirmation and tracking numbers from Wahoo has occurred prior to moving forward again. Thanks again for the support!
I just got my Kickr this week. I’m using an iPod Touch with ANT dongle and Wahoo Fitness app and have successfully paired up power, speed, cadence and heart rate. However, When I click on the wheel icon in workout to do a spindown calibration, there is no CALIBRATE KICKR button so I cannot calibrate. I have no Bluetooth 4 device. Help!
Steve
Hi Steve,
If the gear isn’t showing up, it likely means that the firmware on your KICKR isn’t the latest version. To update the firmware, you’ll need to get hold of an iOS device that has BT40 on it. You can download the Wahoo Utility App and it will walk you through the process, it just takes a couple of minutes. We’re working on adding the ability to update the firmware via BT on Android, but updating with ANT is something that we have not tackled.
thanks,
Chip
DC and Crew, Thanks all for all the information above. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Computrainer and then stumbled across your blog and your spot-on reviews. I am now weighing the options.
One of the features on the Computrainer I liked but did not see mentioned above was the ability to look at left/right power and to be able to see a power curve throughout the pedal stroke. I believe Computrainer calls this “SpinScan.” Is there anything that can give that kind of visual information with any of the Kickr software? I did read all of the comments and didn’t see this question asked, although it was touched on in post #288 above.
Merci beaucoup
Thanks Patrick-
No, this doesn’t exist on KICKR. And honestly, it’s really not as valuable as marketing might make it out to be. There’s a lot of talk lately with the introduction of left/right power meters and how much you really want to try and fix either left/right, or balance within the stroke (on a given side) – or, rather, just focus on getting stronger rather than chasing a number. In some cases folks are finding that by chasing something like pedal balance, they actually end up lowering overall wattage.
Good luck!
Wow DC, you are quick with the response! I am a Sufferlandrian, so it is good that the device is built strong so you can obtain optimal suffering. If the device doesn’t work, I’ll just put it in my jersey pocket for interval training.
I followed the above link to Clever Training but get the OOPS screen. Any idea when they will be available and is the coupon code above still valid? Sufferlandria is a poor nation, discounts are always appreciated.
Just wondering if somebody had to change the bearing in the wheel that the freehub is attached to.
Hi Stéphane,
The bearings are mechanically pressed, this makes them not very user serviceable. The nature of the bearing design makes them essentially “lifetime” bearings. They should never need replacing. If an issue arises, the big pulley can be replaced as a unit. We did have a few units with bad bearings in the first batch of KICKR’s. Because they were damaged during installation they failed within a few minutes of riding and became unusable quickly. Give us a shout at support if you think you’ve got an issue.
thanks,
Chip
Sorry if this is obvious to everyone but me.
From reading the comments section, am I correct in understanding that if you don’t have a rear cassette that matches the 10 speed cassette on the KICKR, that you have to replace the cassette on the KICKR with the one on your bike or one that matches it? I have a 9 speed on my road bike and wouldn’t want to have to remove the cassette every time I wanted to ride the trainer.
Hi Mike,
Correct, if you have a 9 speed bike you would want to replace the cassette that comes with the KICKR with a 9 speed version, about $20 from most online bike shops.
Is that an easy change?
Yeah super easy but you would need a tool, its the same as changing a cassette on a regular bike wheel.
link to support.wahoofitness.com
Your local bike shop could also replace it for you.
For anyone reading through the comments and has questions, we have answered many of them here:
link to support.wahoofitness.com
If you have specific issues, your best contacting our support.
Ray, maybe you can pin that link at the bottom of the article.
Thanks
Thanks Wahoo Murray. Before asking, I had looked for a FAQ on your Wahoo KICKR webpage. Even going to the Support link I wasn’t able to find a way to the page you just linked to. You might want to consider adding that link or a link to some sort of FAQ to the KICKR main page.
I should also thank DC Rainmaker for such a great review and recap of the different support software. I hope that someone, either DC Rainmaker, or Wahoo will maintain a page linking to all the future apps that get created for the KICKR. The potential for better and better apps coming out for the KICKR because of the open source nature of the platform is one of things that has me most excited about it.
Doh! Just checked again and I see that on the link you provided you have a section titled “What software and apps are available for the KICKR? ” so it looks like you are already maintaining a list of compatible software. Great!
We are doing a bunch of work on our site at the moment, so hopefully this information will become a lot easier to find.
Hi
I now have my IPad 2 connected via the Wahoo Ant+ dongle. I can see theKICKR. But using Fitness App it does not react to changes from ERG to SIM etc. it feels like it cannot receive control from the App. After a view rotations resistance gets higher like if were on the default level 2 setting. What could be the problem ? Firmware ?
Thanks Dana
Hey Dana,
It sounds like you need to update your firmware. This requires a Bluetooth 4.0 compatible device (iPhone 4S, 5, 5S, 5c; iPad 3rd gen, 4th gen, mini; iPod Touch 5th gen) and the Wahoo Utility app (free in the app store). Once you have the latest firmware version, you should have no issues controlling the KICKR via your iPad 2!
Hi Mike
This is really an annoyance as I now need an IPhone to make the KICKR work at all. I need a workaround as I am not going to buy a new IPhone. People just don’t lend you their latest IPhone to download apps and do whatever …
Thanks Dana
Hi Dana,
Really sorry about the need to borrow an iDevice to get the firmware updated. We’re working hard on similar capability with Android, but it isn’t quite ready and it will initially be limited to a small subset of newer Android phones that have Bluetooth 4.0 and the latest Android v4.3 running on them.
Best regards,
Brad
Hi Brad
Would the beta already be able to update the firmware (given its a android 4.3/BT 4.0 device) ?
Thanks
Dana
Hi Dana,
The beta app does not have this ability. The firmware update will actually be done through a separate app called Wahoo Utility. Wahoo Utility, similar to the iOS version, will be an app that assesses basic sensor functionality pushes over-the-air firmware updates.
Best regards,
Brad
Isn’t a iPad 3rd gen an iPad 3? I didn’t think KICKR would work with an iPad 2.
MikeE,
The iPad 3rd the (they didn’t use the iPad 3 name, but yes its the same) has Bluetooth 4.0 and can work directly with the KICKR.
The iPad 2 can be used with the KICKR via the ANT+ Wahoo Key.
Murray
Those people who have bought the Kickr would you recommend it after owning it for a while? I’m based in the UK and it’s priced at roughly $1520 equivalent – good value for money?
cheers
All told I am happy with the kicker.
It seems to work as promised.
It hooks up to the Iphone 5.
It hooks up to the Windows8 computer via Bluetooth 4,0
Trainer Road and Peripedal both work nicely.
Trainer road seems to have more video integration.
Finally Cycleops has announced that subscriptions to their virtual training software are launching October 7th.
Taking the rear wheel off is a little annoying because of the rear derailleur fine tuning required when switching.
So, although I will be able to more accurately give an opinion in the springtime, right now it is thumbs up. Get one.
On Clever training, they were great, their shipping department did not know that UPS charges huge brokerage fees to collect sales tax at the Canadian border. Once they were told, they refunded me in the amount of the brokerage UPS charged me. Excellent customer service isn’t having no problems at all, it IS dealing with inevitable problems in an exceptional way. Clever training was exceptional.
Rick
I pray for Android drivers every day. I can not wait. I think this will be a good winter. 🙂
Any news on when clevertraining will resume taking orders for the kickr? Or should I just order one from wahoofitness.com?
Hi Nick,
Wahoo Fitness does not authorize discounts for the sale of any of its
products, and is no longer available on Clever Training. Wahoo
Fitness firmly believes that our products should be offered to all
customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers
and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly
with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail
customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as
product support from their local dealer.
You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.
We believe in supporting a great site like this – it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site.
thanks,
Chip
Edit from Ray as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!
Hi All-
I wanted to quickly catch folks up on a bit of a change going forward. As noted above, unfortunately Clever Training will no longer be carrying the Wahoo KICKR, or any other Wahoo Fitness products. This is due to an impasse with Wahoo Fitness regarding the DCR subscribers 10% coupon code that Clever Training offers to DCR subscribers (the 10% discount to you comes out of Clever Training’s profits, not Wahoo’s). Wahoo Fitness does not want to continue to permit Clever Training the offer for DCR readers and as such Clever Training will no longer carry Wahoo Fitness products.
As you all know I run this blog on reader support and appreciate all of you who purchase your products from my partners Amazon.com and Clever Training. Please note that Wahoo Fitness is the only organization that imposes such restrictions and thus hopefully Wahoo Fitness can reach an agreement in the future that enables KICKR’s and other products to once again be purchased through Clever Training.
Thanks for the support of the site, I appreciate it.
-Ray
Edit as of Oct 29th 2013: Wahoo Fitness and Clever Training have reached an agreement restoring the old terms and conditions. You can now both support the site and have your cake (KICKR) too. The usual links are at the bottom of the review. Thanks for the support!
It was a tough choice for me between the kickr and the cycleops trainer. I picked the kickr based on how it felt when I tried it in person, as well as the perception of openness that wahoo used to have. This practice of minimum price fixing is not particularly legal in Canada. I also wonder what the dealer cost is to apple vs. the local bike shop they claim to be protecting. They have effectively shafted the guy that I would say put them on the map for credibility by refusing to supply clever training. I have a bad taste in my mouth about wahoo right now.
With this current price fixing strategy, it is much harder for me to forgive their growing pains regarding support when they rely on others for effective training software and only support hardware and firmware. (Other than the very basic wahoo software they have)
Even though I have paranoid suspicions that apple may be behind this, it is still ultimately wahoos choice.
I would respectfully suggest to other potential customers that they keep this unethical practice in mind when they decide upon which trainer to spend their hard earned cash.
Regards
I’ve been somewhat critical here of Wahoo at times, and believe in giving credit where credit is due. They’ve addressed every issue I’ve put in front of them, and seem to be making a solid effort on the service side.
As it comes to the “no discounting” policy, I think was need to put this in perspective. This is very, very common in the industry. Oakley, Cervelo, Garmin, CycleOps, Zipp and many other manufacturers do not allow coupons / discounts on their products (just see the bottom of any TriSports coupon email). This is hardly ‘unethical’, and simply represents a company’s philosophy about the pricing to their end customer.
I would not recommend considering that as a factor in deciding on the KICKR. It’s a great product.
So they expect effectively free advertising and product support through this site but don’t want to give anything back? They certainly have the right to do this but it definitely isn’t going to create good will with the site that has given them probably more support than any other. Yea, it leaves a bad taste. This isn’t the way to grow a company.
Hi All-
Just as a heads up, I’m happy to report that effective about an hour ago, Clever Training and Wahoo Fitness came to an agreement and the KICKR (and all other Wahoo Fitness items) are once again available for purchase through Clever Training. This not only supports the site, but you get all the benefits that comes with the Clever Training/DCR deal as well.
The applicable links/etc are hanging out at the bottom of this post in the usual place.
Thanks for the support!
First of all, all of us from Wahoo want to apologize to Ray’s readers about the Clever Training communication. The KICKR is not available on Clever Training at this time. We apologize for any confusion around this matter and Wahoo is 100% responsible the communication surrounding Ray’s post above.
Second, Wahoo *really* wants to support this great site by providing’s Ray’s readers the opportunity to purchase from Clever Training. We have an open offer to Clever to purchase from us. Unfortunately, Clever will not sell Wahoo’s products unless they can discount and sell under the established retail price of $1099.
Given our need as a small company to build a network of independent bike dealers and local fitness shops, we need to maintain price stability in the market. We believe that Wahoo products should be offered to all customers at the same price. This gives the independent bike dealers and local fitness shops the assurance that they can compete fairly with large retailers and online sellers. And it gives retail customer the assurance that they will receive level pricing as well as product support from their local dealer.
Wahoo is made up of 30 honest and hardworking people that are passionate about the products we make and the people who use them. We just celebrated our 4th anniversary as a company. We are just like you – tech and gear junkies – and we would read Ray’s blog regardless of making Wahoo products.
Our goal in life is to make more cool products for you to workout with. We need to grow to be a sustainable business in the long term and bring new products to market. Building an effective retail distribution network – both online and offline – is critical to the growth of Wahoo and achieving the ultimate goal of developing great new products.
Again, we believe in supporting a great site like this – it is awesome. We hope we can work with Clever Training in the future to continue to support this site
Thanks,
The Wahoo Team
Note: You can buy a KICKR at your local independent bike dealer or order it from wahoofitness.com. WahooFitness.com has worldwide distribution and ships KICKRs to over 50 countries in Europe, Australia, and North/South America, many with with free shipping.
I had to wait for 3 days for my bank to transfer funds so that I could buy a Kickr and now Clever Training is out of stock… again. Hey Wahoo Murray, can you send more their way?
Patrick
I have to say I absolutely love the Wahoo Kickr. Go it working with Trainerroad which could not have been simpler and the workouts are amazing – there’s no room or time for slacking and you really get 100% out of the workouts. As someone who has been a great advocate for indoor training for almost 30 years this is by far and away the best platform I have found. Really looking forward to next season even though winter is still a few months away here in Canada.
For anyone who is in two minds whether to go with this product, it really is a simple decision – do you want to get the very most out of your workouts or not?
Alan
Wow–now I know why my order from Clever of the KICKR was delayed! It’s funny/sad to think that I might have gotten one of the last ones from Clever with the discount….
BTW, Clever did a good job of keeping me informed about the delay (even though I didn’t know why until now). Will definitely use them again for non-Wahoo products.
I’ve been debating with myself over ordering a Kickr for a while now. The price is high in the UK and sets it on a par with the Powerbeam pro plus Joule GPS. Like John Smith above, says, I was attracted as much by their philosophy of openness as by the product itself. Whilst a lot of companies do engage in establishing minimum prices and only selling through authorised dealers, it does reduce price competition. Whether it is legally anti-competitive or not is another matter, but I do know that Colnago have been challenged over this practice in Europe with reference to the Competition Act, and have effectively turned a blind eye to their frames/bikes being sold below their “minimum price.” Certainly it feels that a company I was previously attracted to through a perceived desire to shake up the market, is now operating in a similar manner to many of the bigger players.
Makes it a lot easier for me to decide on a purchase – now I will buy/or not buy solely on the product being offered and the price set, rather than buying into any particular business image/philosophy.
Did not place my order on time when it was still available… Too bad…
Hi!
Anybody out there using the KICKR together with an Edge 810, ANT+ USB stick and PerfPro Studio? Having this setup I’m continuously receiving a “Power Sensor Error xxxx” on my 810 display. When switching over to my good old Edge 500 I don’t have such an error.
Thanks,
Christian.
Hi,
I had the same issue when I upgraded the Edge 810 firmware from 2.6 to 2.8. I downgraded to firmware 2.6 and I had no issue anymore. I can use my KICKR with TrainerRoad or veloreality on a Windows 7 & ant + system. I haven’t tried the firmware 2.7 but maybe the vector feature added in recent firmware could be the origin of the issue
Olivier
I just got my Kickr in and am trying to figure out the most efficient way to gather the data. I have a Suunto Ambit 2 and a Garmin ANT+ HR strap. If I want to get HR data into the Wahoo app, will I have to get an ANT+ adapter for my iphone? Or is there some way to route in the HR data via the Kickr? Also, should my Ambit be able to get the speed data from the Kickr? In my first test it seemed like it did not. So right now I have figured out how to have either HR data (using Ambit) or speed (using Wahoo) but not both.
Thoughts/suggestions?
Hi BQ,
I don’t have a Suunto Ambit, but checked Ray’s handy review and it says that the Ambit does not currently support the power profile. The KICKR transmits Power and speed using the power profile, so you won’t be able to pick them up on the Ambit. We don’t currently read ANT HR with the KICKR, so you’ll need either an ANT dongle or a BT HRM to get HR into our App.
thanks,
Chip
Just as one minor update – if you have the Ambit 2/2s, in that case it does support power from the KICKR via ANT+. It’s the Ambit 1 (aka just ‘Ambit’) that doesn’t support ANT+ power.
In other words, with your Ambit 2, you’ll be able to get power data and speed data from the KICKR.
And yes, if you want to get HR data, as Chip noted you’ll need the adapter or a Bluetooth Smart strap (which won’t work with your Ambit, as it’s only ANT+). Though, you could pickup the 4iiii’s Viiiiva strap – which broadcasts both concurrently. 🙂
Hi guys, thanks for the responses. I do, in fact, have the Ambit 2, not the original Ambit; so my watch does support the power profile. I will give it another try to see if it picks up the speed properly from the KICKR (my first test ride was brief and hurried). As long as I can get that to work then I wouldn’t see any need to go out and buy another strap or an ANT dongle. Will report back.
Hi All,
I am having Trainerroad and Kickr connectivity issues (old Mac laptop, so Ant+).
I originally had a Garmin USB1 stick and was advised to upgrade to a Suunto Movestick Mini USB2 stick due to TR/Kickr issues with USB1.
I used the Suunto USB stick yesterday and it worked somewhat seamlessly with TR (during the middle of the workout it stopped controlling load once, but a refresh of device connections mid ride fixed this). It then worked perfectly (erg mode) for the balance of the workout.
However when I came to use TR and Kickr this morning (exact same set-up), TR is advising ‘Kickr set load failed’. The erg mode is not engaging and the Kickr power is not matching the TR workouts.
I have the latest TR software and I believe my Kickr firmware is up to date. I cannot get TR to now control load in erg mode.
Anyone experienced this? What’s the solution?
Hi Guys,
First off, thanks Ray for all your work. Best reviewer on the web without doubt.
Secondly, having soaked up all the reviews and comments on the kickr I still have the option of using Stages with an old Tacx Grand Excel I currently train on. As I don’t have a bike based power meter yet I just wonder whether the flexibility, ride quality and development potential of the Kickr is worth an extra £350 and no power outside?
Would much appreciate all and any opinions.
Cheers,
Martyn
In general I usually recommend a power meter over any resistance-controlled trainer – all other things being equal. No doubt the KICKR can assist greatly in improving performance, but ultimately I think having power for racing and outdoor training is more important – since ultimately (especially if you’re a long-course triathlete), being able to pace by power is a huge advantage.
Having troubles with signal dropping from the Kickr while using the Wahoo Fitness app on Ipad 4.
Anybody experiences similar issues and have some advice on what to do?
For example during recent ride the signal dropped on and off after about 15 minutes riding, and then disappeared completely.
Checked that firmware is updated and also calibrated the Kicker using the Wahoo app. Works fine with the Garmin Ant+ stick to the laptop, so only experiencing this while connected on Bluetooth.
Many thanks in advance.
Alf
Hi Alf,
You might reach out to the support.wahoofitness.com team to dig deep into what might be going on. The BT link to iPhone/iPads is usually rock solid. If you really tax the radio on the iPad it can be problematic, like streaming a Netflix movie into the Ipad on Wifi and using Airplay to send it to a TV while using BT to control the KICKR. The only other thing that I’ve seen is cheap BT headphones can cause pretty nasty interference sometimes. Hope that helps. The support guys may have other clues.
thanks,
Chip
Many thanks for your reply Ray. Inclined to agree. Stages it is.
Hi Mike
I have successfully updated with a loaner IPhone 4S.
A) which app is used best for doing the spindown calibration ?
B) I am using segments – but during a 16 min ride the grade drops consistently to 0% every 30-40 seconds or so. after that it has the the normale grade. The segemt I am riding against does not have the drop outs ? What could be the problem ?
C) I am using the KICKR with an SRAM X-O 9 speed derailleur. What is the best gear in order to avoid chain skipping ? Or should I get a 9 speed cassette .? If so which one ?
D) what is the difference btw segments and the strava app ?
E) how do I know which firmware I have and how can I find out when there are new firmware updates so I need to use the loaner 4S from my friend again..
Thanks Dana
Hey Dana,
Glad to hear you got things updated.
A) Wahoo Utility is the easiest for just completing a spindown calibration (via the bluetooth connection), but if you’re using ANT+, you can simply use the Wahoo Fitness app. Pair to the KICKR just like you normally would and start a workout. In the upper right hand corner you should see a settings button that will drop down a menu with the spindown calibration button.
B) I’m not certain about this. Perhaps Wahoo Murray can chime in with some possible recommendations?
C) A 9-speed cassette is definitely the best option. The 9-speed chain will not work well on the 10-speed cassette and you won’t have the ability to shift! A cheap 9-speed cassette is all you need.
D) The Strava app is for uploading workout data (typically outdoor rides) and analyzing and comparing your performance on various “segments” that were included in your ride. The Segments app allows you to repeat those same “segments” indoors on your KICKR. You can race against your best time or against the KOM (king of the mountain) for each individual segment.
E) We will make a post on our facebook page and also the Wahoo Fitness blog. If you connect with a Bluetooth 4.0 device, both the Wahoo Fitness and Wahoo Utility apps will automatically check for any available updates and alert you if your KICKR is out of date. We will also likely post in the comments section of this blog.
Regards,
Brad
Thanks to the rain in the midwest over the past week, I’ve had a good chance to get to know the trainer. I’m not certain, but I think I’ve run into a app issue running iOS7. I opened kinomaps, the segments app and the wahoo app on my ipad. I maybe had the iphone wahoo app running too. When I started riding, the power numbers felt way off. Like off in sweating like a pig to put out <100 watts. The resistance seemed to cycle up and down but it was never easy. After about 5 minutes, I had the idea to force close the apps that were running. After this, the power curve felt right and all was well. I'll see if this issue is repeatable, but I suspect that it will be.
As for the discount issue, life goes on. I would have bought from Clever without the discount. I would encourage them to keep the product and skip the discount. If they wanted to throw in a nominal gift instead of a discount, that would be a nice, but perhaps unnecessary, touch.
Hey Rickey,
Since the Wahoo Fitness (and likely the others as well) is designed to run in the background, it does not “release” the connection to the KICKR. So it is likely that the apps are all competing for the same KICKR. The best way to avoid this, which you already discovered, is to just shut down the apps you are not using at that moment.
Best regards,
Brad
Can the Kickr receive ant+ cadence from speed/cadence sensors and transmit it out to bluetooth?
Hi Jared,
The KICKR does not read other sensors at the moment. The simplest way to get your ANT+ data to your iDevice would be with an ANT+ key.
Great review. Many thanks. Interested in answer to Jared’s question as well. I have just got a Kickr and but havent yet got a speed/ cadence sensor. On the road I use my Suunto Ambit 1 for HR, speed etc. Should I get an ANT+ speed/cadence so I can use it outside as well? Also, I have the Suunto HR strap. Do I need a new one if HR info is going to feed into any devices or apps used with the Kickr?
Hi Ron,
Depending on the head unit you have, you can use either a Bluetooth 4.0 or ANT+ speed/cadence sensors outside. If you’re using a Garmin then an ANT+ sensor will work but you will need an ANT+ Key to pick it up on your iDevice (and possibly a lightning-to-30-pin adapter if you have a iPhone 5 or newer). If you’re planning on using your iPhone as a display outside, then a Bluetooth 4.0 Speed/Cadence sensor would be ideal (for iPhone 4s or newer).
If you have any questions about compatibility, our support team is the best! Let them know what sensors you are looking for and what devices you want it to be compatible with and they can get you straightened out!
Wahoo Murray wrote
“Michael P,
Sorry that you are disappointed, the quality of elevation is one of the main reason the app was delayed nearly 12 months. GPS and even online lookup databases have VERY poor elevation data.
Strava has corrected many of popular Segments using data from Altimeters (Garmin 800′s) and these segments are very good. Popular climbs over mile are really good and Strava is continuing to scan and update the elevation data. Strava now has the best elevation database on the internet.
We also use 2 different types of filters on the elevation data, but unfortunately, like many before us have found these algorithms not always to be perfect and mostly work well in mountain environments.
We are continuing to work on improving the data and future version should give some greater control over the filter parameters so they can be manually tweaked for different use cases.
Thanks
Murray”
Hi Murray,
I ride long mountains all the time. The segments are nothing like the real thing. The problem with GPS data from Garmins and the like is that they are always correcting themselves and so a steady 5% gradient in the Maurienne Valley becomes a series of 8% ramps between flats. Unfortunately in Segments these seem to happen every few seconds requiring huge power variations – nothing like one needs when riding the real deal.
I’ve tried a number now, longer 10km climbs as well as short ones like Box Hill over here. Box Hill does not start out at 10% then go flat. If anything the KICKR seems to be too good at responding. Can I make a suggestion? A simple smoothing of the climbs to making gradient changes every 500m – or limited to 1% every 2 seconds would cure the problem and I wonder if this could be built into the Segments app and applied after the data has been downloaded from Strava.
This would make these long climbs more closely resemble the real thing in terms of ride feel. As it stands, most segments are fairly useless for training or for pleasure and I would caution buyers against getting a KICKR because Segments will form a large part of their training time.
On the plus side, the KICKR itself seems to be an excellent trainer and the feel is far more lifelike than the Tacx I have replaced. I just miss the accuracy of the Tacx RLV’s at the moment but hopefully you can think of a global fix for the Segments issues. I have to report that what you are saying in the quoted reply is certainly not my experience to date.
Hi Wahoo Murray
I experience the switch btw what seem to be correct gradients and 0%s in Segments. Is there any way to select/filter for good rides ? Ie. the ones that use barometric elevation data or have been corrected ? Or is there a list of the ones that work 🙂 ? It’s very relaxing to get a break every 20 sec. but realistic and negates the whole virtual training purpose…
Thanks
Dana
THANK YOU DC for your incredible reviews. In awe of the depth and detail.
Quick question. Are you able to execute Critical Power testing (CP20) on the KICKR like one can using the CompuTrainer 3D Software? Assuming you can by uploading a Strava based course that is flat (0% grade) and throw down for 20 min and extrapolate from this ride, but needed to ask.
I am poised to get a KICKR if that is a possibility.
Thanks for your feedback as I am determined to create a fool proof system for my athletes when I test them. My CompuTrainer has failed me one too many times.
Sincerely,
Coach L
Hi Lance,
Lots of different ways you could execute a Critical Power / FTP test and it depends on your choice of software.
Most of the software packages have a build in FTP testing workout, they normally set the KICKR into a level mode (higher resistance at higher speeds) and record and calculate your FTP value.
For example, Trainer Road have 20min, 2x20min and 8min tests as well, you could also run a custom test if you like to do a particular type.
Thanks
Question on ease or flexibility for two. My wife and I both take turns on a trainer. This includes swapping bikes pretty much every other day during the winter months on our old Cyclops. Want to upgrade this year to something nicer, more realistic and cooler.
– With Wahoo – when we swap bikes, is there a lot of recalibration that needs to occur? Is there any major ‘hassle’ that we should know about in doing this?
– Does the trainer have the ability to sync to 2 different I phone or devices easily – so that we can differentiate between one another?
– Any other concerns we should be wary of when buying for this type of application?
Thanks.
Hey Barry,
– The beauty of the wheel-off design means that the calibration holds true regardless of the bike you put on the KICKR. It’s not affected by tire pressure or roller tightness. Just throw the other bike on and ride!
– Yes! You can easily pair with two different phones, just be sure to shut down the app on one phone before opening the app on the other. The Bluetooth connection only allows for one phone at a time, but unless you’re using the KICKR with a tandem bike, that shouldn’t be an issue! If you are trying to sync two device at the same time, you can use the Wahoo ANT+ Key. Unlinke Bluetooth 4.0, ANT+ allows multiple devices to connect to the same sensor at once.
– Something to look out for is the drivetrain compatibility. Be sure that both of your bikes have the same number of gears on the cassette. It is relatively easy to swap out the cassette on the KICKR to match your bike, but would be a bit of a pain if this had to be done every time you were making the switch.
Best regards,
Brad
DC,
Do you know of any apps in the pipe that will allow us to ride any GPX file.
eg: grab the file of any ride you or anyone has ever ridden from my Garmin etc then upload it into an app to create the ride with the elevation data then just go ride it onthe KICKR.
A bit like the Segments app but for full rides rather than just the odd mile or 2 blast?
Cheers
Kevin
Yes, you can use the CycleOps Virtual Training suite to do that. It’s a bit clunky right now, but they’ve told me they’re working to close that gap. Right now you’ll need to use the desktop suite to upload the files, and then pull it down from the iPad app (or, the desktop suite). You can use the trial version of the desktop app, so you don’t have to pay to do that function.
I have a few issues going with the Wahoo/Trainer Road right now and not quite sure why. Randomly during a workout with TR the wattage will go to zero, the resistance will still be there, but overall still a bit irritating. This typically last anywhere from a few seconds up to 15 or so. My connection between my MacBook Pro and Wahoo is excellent/good during these instances. Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Alan
Alan,
I suggest you contact TrainerRoad support directly, they will include us if they think we can help. This forum is not the best place for general tech support.
Include details about your computer, OS, ANT+ or BT, if using a USB stick, include what type and model version.
Also include any information of other devices in the system, eg Garmins
Thanks
Hi, some questions please.
1. Cassette.
I read somewhere that the cassette delivered with the KICKR is 11-25, 10-speed.
The two bikes I have which I could use with the KICKR also have 10-speed, but one has a 11-28 Cassette and the other 12-32 cassette, obviously both with the appropriate chain length. Any problems to expect when I am going to use one of these bikes on the 11-25 cassette, e.g. with chain length? I don’t want to change the cassette each time or change the chain when I use the KICKR.
2. Mac/OSX
There are a number of IOS applications which support the KICKR but I haven’t seen a WAHOO iMac/OSX application yet for controlling the KICKR – e.g. for firmware updates. Is there one already available; if not when is it expected?
Thank you, kind regards
Dirk
Hey Dirk,
1) You shouldn’t have any issues at all. The only time you’d need to watch out for chain length issues would be if you’re bike has a cassette smaller than the KICKR’s (an 11-23 for example). There’s a slight possibility that your chain is a hair too long from the bike with the 12-32 but I doubt that will be the case. Even if the chain is too long, it will only be on the 11 tooth gear in your small ring up front and isn’t really worth worrying about.
2) TrainerRoad runs on a Mac or PC and you can also run some other PC software, like PerfPro Studio and PeriPedal, by running Parallels. However, at this point the only way to update the firmware on the KICKR is via an iOS device with Bluetooth 4.0. The capabilities for frimware updates via OSX are only available on the very latest machines and we have found that the connection is not as stable as it is on compatible iOS devices. We are working on Android support for the KICKR which will eventually include the ability to update the firmware.
Best regards,
Brad
DC
I own a tacx bushido for the moment.
Would you personally advice to switch to a wahoo kickr?
Or is there not much added value in switching?
Thanks for your advice
Kristof
Hi Kristof,
I am not DC, but would like to ask you a question as I am in the decision process of buying a new trainer – apart from the KICKR, the Bushido with TTS 4.0 is on my shortlist.
My question is: what are you missing in your current Bushido trainer or what problems are you facing which is making you think of replacing it with the KICKR?
Thank you, rgds
Dirk
Hi Dirk
Well, the whole set-up with the TTS is a lot of work.I have the TTS3 and still it’s buggy.
I barely use the functionality.
Would be much interesting by using the Ipad to connect to the KICKR and control the Watt.
I also sometimes uses the Tacx app, but it’s still not working 100%. Difficulties with the brake resistance…
‘Switching’ is a tough thing. I’m not sure I’d switch unless I could get a good resale rate on the Bushido.
But, if you’re starting fresh, then absolutely, go with KICKR.
The primary reason as Kristof noted is the buginess of the software (TTS). Then there’s the secondary aspects of dual ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart that the KICKR has.
Hi,
Further on the KICKR vs TACX Bushido – I have been looking into the software available for the trainers.
As a recreational cyclist I find virtual reality video/cycling important – I’d like to climb mountains as realistic as possible; I am living in NL, which is as flat as a pancake, except for some bridges and some irregularities in the pancake which some people designate as hills. Realistic climbing for me is an important selection criteria.
TACX – Based on what I’ve read on this and other forums, its fair to conclude that TTS3 is quite buggy, but I am under the impression that TTS4 has improved compared to its previous version if it comes to stability. Correct me if you feel I am wrong. Also local resellers in NL are confirming this asking them on this topic (they are not hiding that there were and are massive connection problems between the software and the trainer.)
If it is working, the VR video’s are of great quality, and those video’s available seem to have (quite) accurate elevation information in it, which I consider a plus.
The video’s are expensive (about 50 Euro each) – but if you have two or three, you can start climbing.
KICKR – the only VR solution for the KICKR I am aware of is the Kinomap trainer. I have been looking into this software by installing it on my iPad4, and looking at some video’s – I am very disappointed. I am not talking about the video quality (HD or not, or vibrations, but about aspects determining realistic climbing on the trainer as well as stability.)
1. The number of video’s is very limited. When I apply a bike filter on video > 5KM & “Approved” by Kinomap I got 18 video. Without approved 41. Am I missing something?
2. The application crashed 2 times during my 60 minutes (about) usage.
3. It happened 4 times that the video image froze just a few seconds after starting it up. Restarting the video “solved” it
4. Is the indicated speed realistic compared to the video?. Example video “sortie velo dans les alpes”: at 01:13 speed 20 KM/h, at 03:16 18 KM/h; doesn’t look realistic to me.
5. Elevation info in the video – AFAIK, this is very important for realistic climbing as this info is used for resistance control to the trainer. Example movie “Alpe d’Huez – Part 2”; (non-approved video). Elevation levels I noticed:
from 00:00 – 01:18 2,7%
from 01:18 – 01:50 10,0%
from 01:50 – 02:25 -8,5% (!!)
from 02:25 – 03:33 0,9%
from 03:33 – 03:50 10,0%
from 03:50 – 04:24 -6,1%
This is far from realistic.
Personally, I found kinomap very disappointing so far and kinomap is not really an alternative to TACX TTS4 despite the issues TACX may have as well. (only talking VR here).
In Netherlands there is quite a price gap between these two trainers. I am not sure if this is different elsewhere.
Bushido + TTS4 as a bundle about 800 – 850 euro.
KICKR 1199 euro.
This is minimum. Both solutions need some additional investments such as software for KICKR and a tube for TACX and..
Still doubting. Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Cheers.
Dirk.
Just a minor note based on your note. The second option is the CycleOps Virtual Trainer suite, which added KICKR support about two weeks ago. Details from my Eurobike post: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Dirk,
I think you are going to see a lot more innovation in this area with the KICKR over the next 1-2 seasons. Just remember, you are looking for a longer term investment and with the KICKR you are getting a very open platform.
You also have a few other video options with Trainer Road, they support videos from EpicRIDE, 3LC, Sufferfest, EnduranceFilms and are also adding support for new videos.
Hi Dirk,
I read your comment and would like to react about the comparison you do between the Tacx software and our Kinomap Trainer application. Using the same order list you used:
1. We actually have hundreds of video recorded by the community. When you start the app, you arrive in the “Featured” videos: this is the default view with around 50 videos that we pick and update frequently. The filters you chose were applied to that selection only: if you want to search the whole DB, please select the other lists (Most viewed, popular, most recents,…) which are progressively picking in the whole DB. We just updated a few days ago the UI and your remark points out that we need to improve this particular point.
2. I understand your frustration while being on a ride to have the app crash: sorry about that… We receive Crittercism reports each time the app crashes though and we’re looking at them. Would you mind opening a ticket at support.kinomap.com to give us a few details about it (username and approx date/time of crash)?
3. We’ve never experienced this issue: maybe you can give details as well in the ticket about your setup (device, iOS version, etc). Thanks.
4. The speed displayed on the website is the actual one sent by the video maker which depends on the GPS accuracy of his camera or GPS logger. Sometimes the speed is not given by this device and is just recalculated based on the distance between 2 locations=> see 5 about GPS accuracy
5. That’s the “big problem” of GPS accuracy. The best videos for indoor training are of course the ones recorded in the mountain, where unfortunately, you can experience the “Canyon effect” and get inaccurate longitude/latitude/elevation. We already use geocoding services to use data from 3rd party companies given a location but still, if the GPS thinks you’re somewhere that is not where you actually are, the elevation service won’t help… That’s why we launched a few days ago the concept of “Approved videos”, which are videos whom we manually ckeck elevation data. Ray Maker made a post during Interbike about this. We currently have around 50 videos that we’ve processed and are opening the tool as a beta to our most active contributors (please apply!) and we’ll give this ability to any contributor eventually of course. We’ve processed the video you mention a few minutes ago.
We really suffer when comparing our user-generated videos with professional videos: that’s a completely different approach. Talking about price, in our case, you basically subscribe for 1 year of “all-you-can eat videos” for the price of 2 videos which makes a significant difference. And remember that you pay nothing at all if you just replay your own recorded videos.
Thanks a lot for the feedback and we’re working everyday to make our system better.
Laurent Desmons
Hi, I have a small question. I bought a kickr with two sensors of wahoo (Blue HR and Blue SC). I use the software TrainerRoad THEREFORE with a PC and can not use the sensor. TR does not yet support Bluetooth 4.0 for Windows.
Can I use in addition to TrainerRoad the Wahoo Fitness app? Then I could use the sensor. Does it work or are there any problems with the power control of the Kickr?
Thank you!
Mark
You cannot pair a Bluetooth Smart sensor to two devices concurrently (streaming at same time). So you can’t stream the BT Smart to both apps at once. But then, Windows doesn’t support these standardized BT device profiles (Windows 8.1 does, but TR doesn’t there), so that’s a bit of a moot point. With the Wahoo app, you can absolutely use those sensors.
So, you could control the KICKR with either TR or Wahoo, and then those sensors can be sent to Wahoo.
Thank you Ray for your response,
I mean is it possible to control the kickr with trainer Road and make additional a record with the Wahoo app? Or are there problems because TrainerRoad and Wahoo app want to control the Power of the kickr same time? The kickr should be in lvlmode when TR starts.
First i Start TrainerRoad and begin to ride, Second i Start the Wahoo Fitness App on the Ipad and let record the run. I do that because of den Sensors which i only can use with wahoo app.
Sorry for my englisch 🙂
Mark
Hi Mark,
That does work just fine. I do exactly that because I keep up with my workouts in our App. When using the Wahoo App and TrainerRoad at the same time you do want to avoid going to the KICKR workout page in the Wahoo App because it will also send control commands at the same time and Trainer Road won’t be able to properly control the workout.
thanks,
Chip
I just got a Kickr
I own IPAD 2 + Wahoo ANT Dongle
IPAD mini
MACBOOK AIR with BT4
Kickr detected via ANT and BT4
no update for my device
testing with Wahoo fitness app, Wahoo Utlity and traineroad (and some other):
i was able to connect device, but no power or speed is gained from kickr
(resistance mode inside app effectively control resistance of kickr (BT4 and ant), but no other signal from device)
🙁
something wrong or kickr is broken ?
Hey Riccardo,
Reach out to our support team, they can determine what the issue is and get everything taken care of!
Best regards,
Brad
Wahoo Brad,
I understand why you tell people to go to support as that is the best place to get issues resolved. Here is what I’d like to see…..after they go to support come back and lets us know what was resolved and how. Why?
In my case, and for others in my tri club, we are considering a purchase of Kickr and when we see the problems that are listed here with no reply/resolution it makes me wonder whether I should be a buyer. I realize it is extra work but it may make sense since DC’s website is usually the first place we all go to get the inside story on products we buy. Just one mans opinion but from a marketing point of view it makes sense.
Hey Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. We make it a goal to reply to any customer that post an issue or a question on this blog; however, we prefer to handle any issues directly through our support system to better track and stay on top of them. While the resolution may not have been posted publicly on Ray’s blog, we definitely take care of anyone who has a problem with their KICKR!
Best regards,
Brad
device is broken and I get a substitution from reseller (one call and problem is solved)
support from wahoo was present but not as fast as I Hope
substitution was faster the a replay from support!!! 🙁
new device is perfect!!
I’m really interested in getting the Kickr primarily to use it in the ERG mode. When using the Kickr in the ERG mode, is there any good reason to shift gears on the bike? Since you can dial in the amount of resistance you want, could the bike be left in one gear for the entire workout?
I ask this because I’m considering just getting a dedicated bike/frame to put on a trainer that lacks anything I wouldn’t need while riding on the Kickr. So could I put a bike on it with a single front chainring, no front shifters, brakes, etc….
I took a Computrainer class last winter and they instructed us not to shift gears once the unit had been warm-up and calibrated and I thought the same might apply to the Kickr while in ERG mode.
You can but would it help as much as using your regular bike?
Hey Dan,
There is not need to shift gears while using erg mode but there is no harm either. The difference between a high gear and a low gear is the amount of inertia stored in the flywheel. This results in a slightly different feeling (think climbing a hill at 300W vs riding on a flat road at 300W) but still the same power output!
You could certainly create a bike like that for the KICKR but this would loose a bit of the functionality in terms of riding courses.
Once the KICKR is calibrated, you can change gears, change riders, or change bikes without needing to re calibrate again. We only recommend recalibrating once every 2-3 weeks or after the trainer is transported.
Best regards,
Brad
Whoops! The difference between a high gear and a low gear is the amount of ENERGY stored in the flywheel.
Thanks Brad, that makes sense. I’m just trying to minimize transition time between riding on the road or getting set up to ride on the trainer. So I may think about getting a used, cheap bike to put on the trainer just for that purpose. I think as long as my contact points are set up the same way it shouldn’t make any difference.
Hi, I looked into the Wahoo Fitness app and noticed that this is an iPhone app and not an iPad app – I can run it on the iPad, however it is not optimized for iPad: it does not support (auto) rotate, nor does it take advantage of the bigger screen. Will there be an iPad optimized version in the near future?
Kind regards, Dirk
Hi Dirk,
We have started working on a iPad optimised version, although i will be a few more months before it can come to market.
Thanks
Apologies for a really stupid question,but I don’t understand how these units hold a specified wattage. Does ithe resistance adjust to your cadence/gearing?
I am sorry, an earlier comment addressed this. That is pretty amazing.
Just a quick but BIG thank you for an incredibly helpful review and reference. I read your review both before and after I bought my KICKR. It helped me decide to buy it and also has helped me use it. I doubt I will ever be able to put up the kind of numbers you do, but it’s all an inspiration, nontheless! Thanks again!!
Hi, Today I bought a KICKR and am trying to get it running. I have a problem with the spindown procedure and am hoping that one of you can help me. The first procedure is to perform a spindown. The maximum speed I am able to reach is 12 – 13 mp/h on gear 50/12 – no way I cant get it to 22mp/h – In the shop on the demo trainer we did this several times and there it went flawlessly and it was way easier to get the desired speed.
I reinstalled all KICKR related iPad apps on my iPad4 (just to be sure). Power recycled the KICKR. no solution.
Please help. Thanks. Dick.
(I also submitted this to the Wahoo support forum a few hours ago).
Hi, just to let you know that I went back to the dealer, they confirmed it is a problem with the KICKR, classified it as a DOA and took it back in. Cheers. Dick
Ray, thanks for the great review. After originally having been interested in the Tacx Genius, I ended up buying the Kickr due in large part to your reviews of both machines and of course all the comments from users (good and bad). (Cycle Ops Pro-beam was a serious contender as well by the way.) The main factors that swayed me towards the Kickr though, were the open app platform (future potential), the “non-buggy” software for Ant+ and Bluetooth and all the commentary regarding the solid build quality of the Wahoo product. So now, after logging some serious miles on it, I have to say it’s an awesome machine! It has indeed lived up to the hype – my wife and I are truly loving it. However having said that, the reason we were originally interested in the Tacx platform was the idea of a fully immersive virtual experience, so as to keep us motivated throughout the winter months, and generally to make workouts more interesting and enjoyable. For now we’ve mainly been using Cycle Ops Virtual Training software which is pretty cool, (much like Strava, but you can upload your rides and post times against other riders.) But I think Tacx is on to something with the computerized virtual environment with steering control. The thing that really turned me off of it was the fact that there was no consequence for not steering, (as you referenced in your article). What’s the point really if you hit a wall, and the computer just self-corrects and keeps you going in the same direction and at the same speed? Why steer at all then? What I was picturing was a scenario where you could steer wherever you’d like within the virtual world, (a la Grand Theft Auto without the violence), turning down streets as you please or even venturing off-road if you wanted to, but with real consequences to whatever you decide to do. (i.e. if you hit a tree, you actually stop and have to deal with it – get yourself back on the road – or if you go off the road onto grass you’d have to pedal harder as the resistance would go up accordingly etc.). Also, the prospect of training with other riders from different places around the globe in say a “virtual peloton”, (where you would get actual (real) benefit from drafting behind other riders), via the net seems very appealing. So because of this, it would seem that a steering accessory would be a really cool adder to the Wahoo portfolio as long as the right software was there to support it. With an open platform for developers to dabble in, do you see Wahoo adding something like this to their product line? I would think though that it’s a case of, “if you build it, they will come” type-scenario, in that the steering mechanism would have to exist before a savvy developer could write the code for it. What are your thoughts on this? Have you had any comments/feedback/discussion with Wahoo Fitness on this potential?
I bought the KICKR this week. It’s fantastic. Really stable, and the weight (21kg) is massive which is a pro for me because that makes it stable. The inertia on the flywheel is just awesome, it feels like you’re riding a real bike. When you let the pressure go, it feels the same like on the road. When you run on a flat surface, it just keeps on running for a minute and when you’re going 300W uphill, it will stop in seconds. It’s just a fantastic product.
I made a connection with a ANT+ USB stick from Suunto on my laptop with Windows 8. It works without a hickup. Installation without CD or drivers, it just installs. Connection with KICKR, Garmin HR-strap en Garmin705 cadance/speed sensor without problems.
The only issue is that you can’t update the KICKR via PC. The reason for this is that you can’t make a bluetooth connection with the PC. I don’t no why because my laptop sees the KICKR. But there is no software yet to connect to the KICKR. Trainerroad can only connect via ANT+. It is not a problem, but it’s strange. Problem is that you can’t use your HR-strap and cadance from Wahoo with Bluetooth. Updates still to come I guess, not a no-buyer.
I use Trainerroad, the training options are really good. Measuring your threshold made me have a heartrate I didn’t have for 2 years. Guess I was cycling the past two years instead of training. With the 8 week training programs of Trainerroad I hope to give my threshold a boost into the next outdoor season.
I tried Virtual Trainer as well. It has potential, but I have some problems with the video quality. It’s just not really well and the graph on the bottom is the same resolution as the video, which makes it sometimes unreadable. Problems with codecs on the PC with video playback (those were video’s that weren’t checked yet by Cycleops but some tracks that were there for a year weren’t checked…… needs some attention) and some problems with tracks that didn’t smooth the gradient, resulting in 0% to 16% in a second and back to 0% again. So you have to edit those tracks again for yourself. Needs attention. The great thing about Virtual Trainer is that you can import your own .tcx files. That is great in my case. I’ve ridden a lot of mountains and hills in France, and it is really cool to ride those again with the support of Google Earth. So I will be back with Virtual Trainer. The cost of it is just rediculous for PC, it charges about 15 dollars a month, and I don’t want a year subscription with the issues it has now….
.
Overall, great trainer, great build quality. Still waiting for better connection between PC and trainer. Still waiting for better VR video’s with good height and grade measurement in Virtual Trainer. But the beginning is there and I am confident that third parties will create great software.
I’m in the market for a training and I’m seriously considering the KICKR. I have a Garmin head unit with ANT+ speed/cadence sensor, ANT+ HR monitor and will be adding a Garmin Vector power meter in the next week. Will the KICKR be able to provide speed, cadence, power and heart rate to my Garmin 510 given the current setup? Or will I need to but a WAHOO bluetooth device?
Your 510 will receive cadence from your existing ANT+ Speed/Cadence sensor, while the KICKR will provide Power.
I’m in the market for a trainer and am considering the KICKR. I noticed that Wahoo monitors this forum closely. I have tried to call Wahoo several times at the phone number posted on the website 404-939-2447. I get a message saying “the voicemail has not been set-up”. I have also tried to email Wahoo several times and have not received a response?
I’m not sure what happening at Wahoo?
Thanks
Hey mtnrunner,
Thanks for pointing this out. We’re troubleshooting the voice mail issue right now. Currently, our phone hours are limited to Tuesday 2-5, Thursday 10-2, and Friday 10-2 (EST). Also, if you were emailing over the weekend it is very possible that we have not caught up on our emails and had the chance to get back to you. If you give us a call now, you should be able to reach Megan until 5:00!
Best regards,
Brad
Ray et al. I recieved my kickr today and it doesn’t seem to be working correctly ;((. In erg mode after 1 or 2 revolutions it feels like the brake is 95-100% on. Has anyone had this happen? I can only get it to spin in Resistance mode and even then it feels like the power numbers are way too low for the effort/rpe. Feels like it should be 200w or higher and only reads like 100w. thanks in advance. I will be in contact with wahoo in the morning. Maybe i got a dud;(
Hi Pat,
Normally it just means you KICKR needs a spin-down.
link to support.wahoofitness.com
Check here for some other FAQ”s
link to support.wahoofitness.com
If you still have any trouble, let us know or send a email over to Wahoo Support and one of our KICKR guru’s can help you out.
Thanks for the detailed articles and comment follow-up Ray. I took the plunge on Wahoo’s website last night (even though I was not happy with how they nixed their relationship with Clever Training while other company’s are giving back 10% as store credit and that seems to be ok). Amazon is out of stock and Wahoo is currently throwing in a free cadence censor. My unit shipped this morning from Wahoo.
I received my KICKR yesterday and took immediate a spin on it. Setting it up it’s real simple and I must admit, it comes close riding a real bike on the road.
When comparing to my bushido, it makes more noise. It’s more a high whistle when reaching a speed of 30 kmh and above. On the bushido I never had that even when reaching speeds of 55 kmh.
Do someone have any advice in lowering that whistle sounds, since I have two kids that are sleeping above when I’m training in the garage.
Hi Kristof,
If you are using it in ERG mode, put your bike in the granny gear. This will reduce the speed of the flywheel and thus reduce the noise. You can’t do much in the other modes.
Also the noise should reduce a little after you use it for a while.
Murray
Kristof did you get this fixed? After about a month of use mine just started acting similarly. In fact it fluctuates so much it is nearly impossible to ride depending on the training program. I have a support ticket submitted and I’m hoping to hear back tomorrow from Wahoo.
I bought a KICKR via the Apple store in Switzerland for 1,110 chf (900 EUR) with free delivery. Direct from Wahoo its priced at 1,200 EUR + postage and I would probably have had to pay importy duty. Probably saved 400 EUR or 45%. Probably the only example of Switzerland ever being cheaper for anything.
Wahoo Murray- Thanks, for your quick response. I ill try that today.–pat
Is Trainer Road able to control the Kickr by ANT+ Control?
Yes, as long as the firmware is updated.
Have to say I was lucky enough to purchase one of the first KICKRs available and I’ve been delighted with it.
I’ve been using it ‘manually’ for months now but only just got around to linking it up with trainer road.com and The Sufferfest videos today. This evening I completed “The Hunted” with trainer road controlling my power output and keeping me in the correct power zones, perfectly synched with the video. Absolutely brilliant!!! I loved every sweat drenched second of it.
Thanks again to Ray for his brilliant reviews and advice 😉
Wahoo Mike – not trying to get into a debate because I understand the intent regarding baseline pricing and how that works. However, is Clever actually offering a lower price? I thought it was simply a discount akin to a 10% off coupon one can use. In other words, the price is set at the $1099 but they simply apply the coupon code against the product?
Secondly – if a local shop hands out 10% off discount coupons viable for a set of products in their store – would that be against the rules?
That’s the hard life of a early adopter. I also buyed the KICKR in Europe for 1199 euro’s. That’s about 1.600 dollars at this moment. They made a lot of money on me. But hey, I got the awesome KICKR.
I guess you can wait for half a year or a year and it will be priced about 900-1000 dollars. But life is short, and I wanted it now, just before the winter….. So I accepted it.
So it is OK for Performance Bicycle’s online store to give a 10% kickback on future orders and for Amazon to give a 5% rebate to Amazon or Chase card users, but not OK for Clever Training to give a 10% discount. Got it.
@Matthijs – I already own the KICKR, I did not get a discount and frankly I am not complaining or asking for myself. It is something called principle and I genuinely would like to understand. As @Shannon states below – policing it when there are coupons, 10% future discounts, 10% credit, 5% credit card cash back etc. when the Clever Training pricing is not different is something I do not understand. Let’s be clear – Wahoo has a legitimate concern about setting a base price and that is a common practice. What is not common is to somehow attempt to police things like coupon codes that can be used on multiple products.
Consider it this way – after some purchases from a store like Best Buy or Amazon, I receive a certificate or code that entitles me to $100 off a purchase of $500 or more. That has no impact on the actual price. If I purchase the KICKR for $1099, I am simply using that. The same is said for using a credit card with 5% cash back. I am paying the price and getting it back. The Clever Training is like a coupon code.
We have not even gotten into associates/ link marketing type accounts like the links on DCR to NewEgg or Amazon where the site gets a % back. Why? Because they drove the traffic. There is nearly no way it makes sense to police it or thwart it where even sites that sell Apple products (where there are very strict base line prices) do the same thing. It is marketing they do for their business.
Ok, I read your comment. But it looks like this business with coupons, 10% future discounts, 10% credit, 5% credit card cash back is way WAY ahead in the US compared to the EU. We don’t have these things. I don’t no why. But I understand your questions to Wahoo now in your situation.
I’m having a real issue with my new kickr. Can anyone help.
I’ve contacted wahoo and not yet received a response.
I’ve done all of the spin downs etc, and am synced to an iPad 3
I am using the segments app and have also tried kinomap
My problem is that whenever I push any strong power through the pedals ( anything over 250 watts) the drive belt, or something internally is causing the pedals to slip and jump.
It is not the fitting to the frame, nor is the chain slipping
There is something going on internally .
Has anyone else had a similar issue ? And if so is there anything I can do to fix it or is it a warranty return issue.
Thanks
Russ
Hey Russ,
It does sound like something is up, When did you send the support ticket? We don’t have anyone available to handle requests like this over the weekend, its a question for our specialist support. Brad will probably get back to you Monday.
Hey Russ.
I had the same issue but it was over 500 watts.
Easily fixed with a couple of hex keys.
On the drive side there is a triangular plastic cover which has a hole in it, if you look through the hole you will see a hex bolt just loosen it a touch. the on the top of the same cover just below where the belt comes out to go over the main pulley you will see another hole very small. Inside is a small hex bolt tighten this a touch which tensions the belt then tighten the large hex bolt on the side to hold the tensioner job done.
I’d suggest doing this with the Wahoo app open on erg mode 1/4 turn at a time until it no longer slips and you can produce no more power. I’m good now up to 700 watts with no slippage and I cant push any harder so Im happy.
I am having the same issue. It has taken me a while to get my whole setup complete. Today while trying the San Francisco tour, with Cycleops Virtual training I was getting what felt like belt slippage going up the steepish hills at the start. It does not feel like chain slippage. It feels a bit softer. I am wondering if Wahoo could comment on how to adjust the belt in the event this occurs. Should we just gradually increase the tension as mentioned above? We all end up tinkering with our bikes and I suspect this not very different.
Also, my LBS whats to know who the Canadian distributor is and how he can resell these. (At my urging.) Once my slipping is fixed I plan to bring the whole setup to his training studio so he and a few others can check it out.
Thanks,
Rick
Hey Rick,
You are correct. Just slowly increase belt tension and test. We have since tightened up our allowable tolerances for belt tension after seeing a few that were a bit loose. Here’s a video showing the process for adjusting belt tension: link to dropbox.com
Your LBS can reach out to Norco (Live to Play Sports) for the KICKR.
Cheers,
Brad
I see that strava have added indoor training videos to their premium service. I’m thinking of paying for premium but wonder if my kickr is compatible with it ? Can I link my kickr to strava , watch the training videos and then upload the ride to strava. It would be great if I could as I use strava all the time when out on my road bike. Thanks
Hi Russ,
You can use the Strava App to record the workout but it cannot control the KICKR.
I just ordered a KICKR and I need a find a floor mat. What size floor mat would you recommend for the KICKR and a 56cm bike?
t.
Hey T,
We use a standard sized trainer mat. They are approximately 36″ x 80″.
I’m getting a Wahoo KICKR, and want to make sure I have the required accessories. I already have a Garmin Edge 800, and I’m assuming I can use the Garmin Ant+ heart rate chest strap and the Garmin speed/cadence sensor (for cadence) with the Wahoo? I also plan to use either an iPad 1 or 2 with Kinomap Trainer. Do I need to have the Wahoo Ant+ Key to use the iPads? Thanks –
Scott
Hey Scott,
For the iPad 1 or 2 you will need the ANT+ key to connect to the KICKR as well as your Garmin Speed/Cadence and HR Monitor. Please be aware that in order to do a firmware update you will need to have a device with Bluetooth 4.0 (the iPad 1 and 2 don’t have this). The update takes a few minutes and can be done on any BT4.0 iDevice via our free Wahoo Utility app so it’s as easy as borrowing a friends iPad 3 or newer or iPhone 4s or newer!
Best,
Brad
Hey all
Loving the look of the Kickr and about convinced its worth the outlay for what I need.
Question I have relates to my bike. Do folks recommend using your race bike or a second/winter bike. I guess the question is does use on the Kickr in anyway damage my lovely new carbon steed??
Any views would be appreciated.
Keep up the good work Ray.
Thanks
Hi Frankie,
You won’t do any damage to your baby on the KICKR. I believe its important to use the trainer with your primary bike, this ensures you are doing your workouts in the same position that you will be cycling outside.
Murray
Just started using the kickr and was wondering if anyone had to adjust their rear derailer? My gears are not jumping but i feel like something is grinding. (It doesn’t sound right) I did the calibration spin down and everything worked but it just doesn’t seem fulid.
I have sram red groupo and wouldn’t think the shimano cassette would make a difference.
Thanks
Hey Kenny,
Sometimes a slight adjustment of the barrel adjuster can help quiet things down. It’s likely that your shifting is just slightly out of line compared to your wheels. While Sram and Shimano cassettes can be interchanged just fine in terms of performance, it has been reported that the Shimano cassette running a Sram chain can be a little bit louder.
Best regards,
Brad
I’ve just taken delivery of my Kickr and on first use I’m very concerned about the amount of stress placed on the frame. Murray, I’d like to see some detail on the testing carried out if possible? I’m on the cusp of sending the thing back and going for the roller option as this will better mimic the forces experienced during road riding.
I really wouldn’t worry about it. There’s never been any legit/real issue with frame stress and trainers. There’s been a few random magazine articles worrying about frame stress from trainers – but none of which have ever substantiated anything, nor ever given a single example of a frame issue where a manuf came back and said that’s a bad idea. It’s a bit of the rumor that won’t die.
If this was indeed an issue that bike companies were worried about – you’d certainly not see Pro teams riding outside their trailers with sponsored bikes on sponsored trainers.
In fact, Felt says it’s perfectly fine: link to 2012.feltracing.com
They say to avoid out of the saddle rides. Which honestly has more to do with you falling off the trainer (raising center of balance significantly) than it does anything else.
Cervelo says the same here as well: link to forums.cervelo.com
I too had my carbon baby on it for a while but got so concerned about the frame flex that I went out and bought a cheap bike with a shimano compact chainset to put on it. Now I can proper hit it without fear of damaging my carbon (whether it would or wouldn’t) I now have piece of mind.
The down side is my roadie is a compact 50/34 – 11/28 10spd
My cheapie is 50/34 – 25/12 8spd can be a little hard trying to get up Alpe d’Huez in 34/25 On VirtualTraining!!! In fact its a killer!! lol
All good fun though … loving it big style 🙂
Hi Ray – Great review! Now that I have read all of your reviews of the different trainers, I think I am sold on the KICKR. However, I’m dizzy from all the different apps listed, so not sure which direction to go for my personal needs.
I’m doing IM Lake Placid July 2014 and looking for an app that will allow me to download either the course and do it on the KICKR, or do some interactive 3d’ish type ride on the KICKR. If possible, can you answer some of the questions i have below:
* Is the KICKR strong enough to handle a 6 hours continuous spin without killing the device or overheating?
* Which software app do you recommend for IM training that follows the ascent and decent of the course?
*Placid is hilly, I would love to train on the course without having to leave my place.
* Out of the several app platforms listed in your review, which has an interactive ride or 3D or street level of the course that I can follow.
Greg
Hi Greg-
1) There’s no problems in using it for 6hrs.
2) Your best bets for that type of training would be the CycleOps Virtual Trainer App (check out my 2013 trainer recommendations post for details on that), or, Kinomap. But, I’m not sure if Kinomap has IMLP in it or not.
3) Both VirtualTrainer and Kinomap do (real-course style video). Neither however has Google Street View at this point.
Greg,
Go with the Ipad Cycleops VirtualTraining app (Its awesome), If you have ridden this course before or know somebody who has ask them for their gpx file and recreate it within VT and ride away.
I haven’t checked but the course may already be there if its a popular event.
.
The route is there created by ‘hawk’ 55mile 3531ft
Hi.
I have managed to reserve a budget for the KICKR, but before the purchase I need an answer to some questions (I already asked one question in the past but here I will be more precise):
1) I use GNU Linux, and, since I’m a programmer, I’m writing my own application with ANT+ support.
I need the ANT+ profile documentation for the messages used by the KICKR. I was unable to find it on the
wahoo web site. Note that I *do not* need the iOS or Android wahoo framework documentation
2) I don’t have an iPhone, and I do not plan to buy a smartphone with Bluetooth 4.0.
I need firmware upgrade support via ANT, and the documentation about the ANT message used, so that
I can implement a firmware update application for Linux.
I will not buy the KICKR until this is not available in stock.
3) This is the question I asked some time ago.
I plan to do some sprint workout on the KICKR, in simulation mode.
I don’t care about the frame (I use an old alloy frame, and should it broke, I may buy a steel frame).
My doubt is the following: assume I do a sprint from 0km/ to 40km/h in 30 seconds.
There is some delay in the KICKR, since it first needs to read the current velocity, then do some
computation and finally update the magnetic resistence. Surely this will not happen in real time.
Will the “feel” be the same as when doing the workout on the road?
If this is not true, I may prefer the Kinetic Road Machine trainer, for these workouts.
Thanks Manlio Perillo
Hi Manlio,
Regarding linux support, we don’t include the source code and raw ANT message documentation in the general API, but if you contact support we can send it to you.
Regarding firmware updates, we only support doing this with BT40. In order to update a KICKR, you’ll need to use an Apple product with BT40 or very soon an Android device with 4.3 or newer. We don’t plan to add support for ANT firmware updates at this time. We really need to manage this process closely to avoid any possibility of damaging a KICKR with the upgrade.
Regarding simulation mode and sprints, the KICKR control loop operates updates 64 times per second, it works great for simulating and practicing sprints in either standard mode or sim mode.
thanks,
Chip
Hi, Sorry to ask this question again I am sure that this has been answered so many times,however I am sure that there is some new product every few weeks.
I am a very visual person so I like to see routes to ride on.
Can you please list me all the apps or software makers for the kickr that will give me the best and accurate visuals (like the Kinomap ect. )? Can u please list them by best in quality to the lowest. I don’t really care about price however would be nice to know as well.
Thank u very much.
Hi Josef,
Keep an eye on the wahoo site, specifically the KICKR product page. We’ve got a few documents nearly complete that we are going to use to try and keep up with all the great software that is released and in development.
thanks,
Chip
So I have performed the spin down and everything seemed to work. So I jump off and decide to adjust the rear derailer but I can barely turn the crank with my hand. Is there resistance on the trainer at all times? Past trainers I have used such as the computrainer have no resistance until you add it.
I had my iPad set to erg mode with 0 watts.
So I jumped back on and once I started peddling the watts displayed jump almost to 200 while the target power was still set at 0.
I did another spin down and again it said it was successful but still had the same issues.
Thanks
Hey Kenny,
Reach out to our support team (support.wahoofitness.com) and we will help get things taken care of!
Best regards,
Brad
Hi Chip Hawkins.
It’s really unfortunate that ANT firmware update will not be available in the near future. My smartphone does not support USB host mode, so I can’t even use an Bluetooth 4.0 USB stick. I’ll have to use my laptop with the USB stick.
I was assuming that firmware update was a more simple operation; as an example with Garmin Edge 500 I can upgrade the firmware manually, by copying the new firmware in the Garmin device directory, using USB. When the Garmin boots, it checks for the file, and if available and the firmware is more recent, it starts the upgrade process.
Thanks Manlio Perillo
Hi chip,
Thanks for your reply, can you please give me the list for the current 3th party Apps thats available now with visual routes.
thanks really looking forward to get lots of use from the kickr.
Hey Josef,
Here are the ones I’m currently aware of:
Kinomap Trainer
Virtual Trainer
BKOOL
Velo Reality
Check out their respective websites for more information and details about what videos are available and pricing options!
Wahoo is currently selling the Kickr with a free cadence sensor. Would I need a separate sensor for speed data or does the Kickr provide that information on its own? It’s not clear to me if the cadence sensor is all I need or if it would be better to get a speed/cadence sensor.
Hey Ilan,
The KICKR broadcasts speed/distance and power. No need for a separate speed sensor!
Best regards,
Brad
Thanks for the quick response! I have a couple more questions.
The bike I will be using on the Kickr has a 9-speed 11-32 Deore rear cassette. That means I will need to switch out the cassette on the Kickr to a 9-speed, right? Is there any point in upgrading to a higher level cassette for use with the Kickr (e.g. SLX) or should I stick with the same type of cassette I have on the bike (Deore)? I will not be upgrading any of the other parts on the bike.
Also, does it matter if the bike has a steel frame?
No need to pay more for a fancy cassette on the KICKR. As long as it’s 9 speed Sram/Shimano it will be compatible! You will be good with a Deore cassette. Also, there is no problem using a steel frame on the KICKR whatsoever.
Best regards,
Brad
I wasn’t really concerned about the compatibility of the cassette; I was just wondering if an upgraded cassette would give me a better experience on the Kickr, even though I’m not upgrading any other parts.
The Wahoo site is telling me that “shipping options are currently unavailable for this order.” Is there some reason the Kickr can’t be shipped to California?
Upgrading the cassette won’t have much affect without upgrading the entire drive train. Even still, the effects will be negligible while riding on the KICKR.
Wahoo Sean is taking a look at the shipping issue. It is definitely available in California!
Thanks,
Brad
Hi Ilan, please send your address info to support@wahoofitness.com so that we can further troubleshoot the issue that you are having with the site.
Thanks!
Sean
Received my Kickr yesterday & it doesn’t work. I followed the instructions to pair it and it did this fine. Then I tried pedalling and the resistance starts easy but gets too hard to pedal after about 10 seconds. I read the support page on Wahoo advising to perform a spin down. I tried this and even with maximum force and the Kickr whizzing around like crazy I am unable to register a speed of more than 3mph or 5kmph so it can’t complete the calibration. I tried it using the Wahoo Fitness App & then the Wahoo Utility App on my iPhone 4s. I then tried using the Trainer Road app on my MacBook Pro which gave the same results. Did I do something wrong or is it faulty?
My bike is set up with a Stages Power meter but I made sure this was not paired. I also have no speed cadence sensor as the Stages / Garmin does this but I doubt this is related as the Kickr provides the speed reading itself as I understand it. The Garmin is off. I closed down all the other Apps when testing it. I have tried powering on and off the Kickr and also turning on and off the bluetooth on my phone. Still no luck.
Hi Jason, this looks exactly as what I experienced, although I managed to get it to 12KM/h (see #590 of this thread). I did (and most likely you) nothing wrong. It was a DOA and I returned it to shop. Rgds.
Thanks so much Dirk! I suspected as much. Based on what you said I called the Apple Store just now and they immediately arranged for a replacement to be shipped to me (no questions asked) which should arrive in 48 hours so look forward to trying it again.
Received the replacement Kickr from Apple before I received the response from Wahoo support. Plugged it in and it worked instantly as it was supposed to. Guess the first one was faulty then…
Hi DC/Group,
Today I downloaded the cycleops VirtualTraining app for iPad for a first impression on how it works.
Connected the KICKR to it with BT4.0
Also used my Garmin800 to connect my HR and Cadence sensor with ANT+ (I don’t have a ANT+ dongle for iPad yet) as well as the KICKR.
I run into these problems/questions
1. The SPEED in Cycleops is always 3-6 KM/h higher then the speed displayed on my Garmin. The POWER has been always the same on both Garmin and Cycleops. Where is this speed coming from? I always thought that speed is send by the KICKR. If it is from the KICKR, I would suspect seeing the same speed in the cycleops app and the Garmin?!. Or is it calculated?, and if it is calculated what could be a reason for such a difference?
See picture: link to dropbox.com
In this picture the speed on Garmin is 28.5; in the Cycleops app its 34.9
2. The video (I did “kapellen V1”) in the app was not smooth at all. In fact it was almost never. The longest period I noticed it was smooth was about 10 seconds, but most of the time it was freezing, falter; very annoying. Anyone else experienced same problem and what to do to resolve?
FYI: I stopped all running apps on iPad just to be sure; Cycleops was the only running application. But it was the same all the time.
Appreciate any thought you may have. Cheers.
Hey Dirk,
1. I believe Virtual Training calculates the speed based on power instead of displaying actual speed. You can check that your wheel circumference is correct in the bike settings. Also make sure you have the latest release of the software. I understand they just released an updated desktop software that improved the accuracy a good bit.
2. I am not sure of this. I have not used the app, only the desktop software nor have I done that particular ride. The ride I did seemed smooth and accurate. I would suggest reaching out to the Virtual Training support team to see if they have any suggestions.
Best regards,
Brad
1. That’s right Brad, the speed in Virtual Trainer is based on your power output combined with the gradient. For example, when you ride -2% and riding with 200 Watts, you will ride something like 45km/h. When riding 200W with 6% gradient, you will ride about 15km/h. But when you are heavier or lighter, you will see other numbers.
2.
No idea.
@Dirk
Stick with it as this app is awesome.
Took me a while to get my head around the speed thing too as well as a conversation with their support.
Once you understand it it is great and pretty acurate.
The difference between Virtual Training and say Segments is VT simulates an outdoor ride where Segments doesnt and have to pedal every mile with no relief.
link to support.virtualtraining.eu
link to support.virtualtraining.eu
Thank you @Kevin! Appreciate your feedback. I have read your post on the VT forum and the explanation from VT support. Makes sense. Need to do more rides and thinking it over again. I’ll now focus on the video issue on my iPad as this makes it almost unusable. Thanks again. Cheers.
@Dirk.
If the problem is that your internet connection is not fast enough to stream the video as you ride download the video to your ipad first and then ride. If you need to reclaim the space on the pad afterwards delete the video.
I personally like to view my ride in map (satellite view) you spot loads of stuff that you don’t usually see from the road.
One more point on the speed issue,
If you are using the same bike or trying to emulate your road going bike using an old frame be sure to put in the weight of the bike you are trying to copy as well as your body weight including everything you would have with you on a real world ride (water bottle, shoes, lid etc) this increased my overall weight by 6lbs and the speed numbers were even better. Don’t forget the wheel size too (though not sure if this really affects anything when on a KICKR)
My limited experience with this product is very positive. However, I believe there is a safety issue with this product. I was performing power jumps on a Wahoo Kickr in a high gear (large chain ring, small cog) whereby I start out pedaling slowly then accelerate to the maximum speed/rpm I can attain. At that point, my bike came off the Kickr, and I fell to the floor. Checking my power numbers later, I saw that I was at 1085 watts when I fell. The only explanation for this mishap I can think of is that I did not clamp the skewer on tightly enough. Anyone else have this problem?
I noticed that the LeMond Revolution that uses the same mechanism for attaching a bike has very explicit warnings about this:
WARNING: SECURELY CLAMPING THE BIKE TO THE REVOLUTION WITH THE CAM ACTION RETENTION DEVICE [AKA, skewer] TAKES CONSIDERABLE FORCE. IF YOU CAN FULLY CLOSE THE CAM LEVERAGE WITHOUT WRAPPING YOUR FINGERS AROUND THE SEAT STAY OR CHAIN STAY FOR LEVERAGE, THE LEVER DOES NOT LEAVE A CLEAR IMPRINT IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND, AND THE SERRATIONS ON THE WHEEL FASTENER DO NOT EMBOSS THE SURFACES OF THE DROPOUT, THE TENSION IS INSUFFICIENT. OPEN THE LEVER TURN THE TENSION ADJUSTING NUT CLOCKWISE A QUARTER TURN; THEN TRY AGAIN.
I cannot find anything in the Kickr documentation about how tight to clamp the skewer.
Hello D. Trousdale,
I hope you and your bike are unharmed! You are correct. It is very important that your bike is properly installed on the KICKR and that the quick release lever is properly tightened down. We have the following warning in the Quick Start guide included with all KICKRs:
Warning: Be sure that the quick release skewer is completely tightened before riding the KICKR PowerTrainer. The lever should require significant effort to close and should leave a defined imprint on your hand. Failure to properly tighten the quick release may result in property damage or personal injury. If you are unsure of the proper tension please consult your local bike shop or contact Wahoo Fitness for assistance. DO NOT ride the KICKR PowerTrainer if you believe your quick release skewer is not properly installed.
If you believe your unit did not come with the quick start guide, please let us know so we can ensure this does not occur again.
Best regards,
Brad
Thanks for the quick response, Brad. The only bad things that happened was a scratch on my knee, bent derailer hanger and skewer, and a bruised ego. Allow me to explain the circumstances a little further. I was using a Kickr as part of a spin class for which I recently signed up. We have 11 Kickrs in the room. I had no access to the quick start you mention, and the coach did not say anything about how much to tighten the skewer that I recall. I’ve put rear wheels on bikes hundreds of times and never had a problem, and I’m sure I just followed my instincts this time, too. I do remember not being able to close the skewer at all and having to untighten several times, but I’m guessing that I untightened too much but that it was well within the range I normally use for my rear wheel. This is the first time I’ve ever used a trainer that uses this type of mechanism for attaching a bike
Ooooops! I forgot to add: my reference to your documentation was only to what I could find on the support page of your website. As a former tech writer and an avid consumer of user documentation, we always said RTFM!
I’m sure we are all guilty of not reading the manual sometime or another! There used to be a link to the quick start guide online but it must have gotten lost in an update. Thanks for pointing this out! I’ll get that added back in and make sure we put more emphasis on the importance of a tight QR skewer.
Best regards,
Brad
I just want to verify that I have understood the 664 posts correctly:
– My existing Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor will continue to transmit data to my Garmin Edge 705 as if I was riding outdoors?
– the Kickrs will transmit Power and Speed to my Garmin Edge 705. At the moment Speed is transmitted via the size of my wheels and a magnet, and I don’t have a power meter. So the power meter is a real benefit of the Kickrs and embedded?
– I can use my iPhone 4S or iPad (don’t know the exact version but has Retina and is one year old) to control the Kickrs (resistance etc.) and upgrade the firmware
– I can than use 3rd party software via my Apple devices together with the wahoo app to do all sorts of cool things (ride virtual courses with video, develop training schemes etc.)?
Thanks for the support, this site is very helpful.
PS Given the price difference I am inclined to pick one up when back in the US, but I reckon it doesn’t fit my suitcase coming back to Europe?
1) HR Strap: Correct
2) Transmission: Correct
3) 4s/new iPad: Correct
4) 3rd party: Correct
It will actually ship just fine on virtually every carrier (airline). I’ve brought a few of them back and forth no problem. The box shipping weight is just barely under 50lbs, which is pretty much the standard for free bag allowances.
Thanks for confirming!
I also realize that there is no-one that ships to Switzerland… So will have to do the US thing but that means I cannot use it until January.
Matt, You can buy it through the Swiss Apple store. link to store.apple.com
hi, are you able to tell me the dimensions of the box that it came in please. trying to work out shiping costs. . many thanks.
25.5″x12″x21.5″
how do i get my Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor to work on Wahoo Fitness or 3th’ party while using the Kickr.
i have the Garmin 810.
Thanks
Hi,
I also contacted the Wahoo support, but maybe someone here can help me…
I got my Kickr a couple of hours ago and just set it up. I’ve got a couple of problems with it and it seems that the resistance is broken in some way.
I connected everything with the Wahoo Fitness App on my iPad (3rd Generation) [and later with my iPhone 5s]. I set the circumference to my wheel size [is this right? even if the wheel is not in place?]. If I start to pedal it shows always under 30 wattage and a speed of lower than 30km/h. In the power settings, only the “resistance screen” works, meaning if I tap on the “erg screen” and the wattages is shown at 000, the resistance increases and I can’t continue paddling. Only if I return to the “resistance screen” I can paddle again.
I can’t even perform the spindown calibration because I can’t reach the specified speed, and I paddle with a cadence of 130rpm!!!
Here you find a video which shows my edge 800 (with the power of the Kickr and the cadence of my garmin cadence sensor) as well as the Fitness App. link to dl.dropboxusercontent.com
Any suggestions what’s wrong?
Thanks in advance.
Martin
Hi Martin, looks the same as the problem I faced as well as Jason. Check #651 and #590.
Looks like a DOA. rgds.
Hi Dirk, thanks for your reply! I got through a couple of posts and used the search function, but it was quite hard to find. I’ll contact Apple (same as Jason, I used Apple for shipping) and hopefully they’ll replace my Kickr. I’ll come back and report. Thanks again and have a nice day, Martin
Hey Martin,
If you reached out to Wahoo Support, we should be able to take care of at no cost to you!
Best regards,
Brad
Hey,
I just wanted to tell you that my problem is solved right now.
I received my new Kickr yesterday from apple and it works perfect.
First I had to do an update (did they change something over the weekend), but after that the spindown calibration worked fine, as well as my first 1,5h workout.
I’m looking right now for an app (and/or online service), where I can create a trip and then ride the elevation profile. Strava segments isn’t too bad, but there I can only ride short segments. Trips, getting up L’Alp d’Huez or Col du Tourmalet or any other trips near my hometown, would be nice. I don’t really need a video (as for example Kinomaps), just the elevation profile would be nice.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Martin
Hi ,
Sorry to ask this again ,how do i get my Garmin HR strap and cadence sensor to work on Wahoo Fitness or 3th’ party apps while using the Kickr.
i have the Garmin 810.
Hi Josef – I am also using Garmin HR and Cadence sensor and I am connecting these to my computer and iPad. For this I bought the Suunto ministick USB (about Eur 40) for ANT+ support under OSX and Win7 and I have bought the Wahoo ANT+ key (about Eur 65) for support under iOS (iPad/iPhone). Works fine. If you have a new iOS device (with the new style connector) you also need the Lightning to 30-pin adapter from Apple (or alike) to connect the Wahoo ANT+ key to your iOS device. Once you have the HR and Cadence info available in your application (TrainerRoad, Virtualtraining, Kinomap, etc) you don’t need the Garmin 810 device, although you still will be able to also collect the ANT+ information broadcasted by your sensors (including the KICKR) into your Garmin head unit. Happy cycling, cheers.
If you want to display data from your Garmin sensors for now you need to use an ANT Key for the Apple device to get that data into an iPhone or iPad. We’re working on an update that will allow the KICKR to pick up your ANT sensors and rebroadcast them as BT, but it likely won’t be for a couple more months.
thanks
Chip
Dirk,Chip,
Thanks for your reply.
However I did purchase the Wahoo ant+ key ,and it shows up in the wahoo utility app and got the :-),but still cannot get my cadence to connect even after peddling and trying to get out of the sleep mode.
Please help I rely so much on the cadence data
Thanks
Hey Josef,
Did you pair the speed/cadence sensor in the app settings (just like the KICKR)? After you do that, scroll down to “Data Sources” and make sure Cadence is set to Speed/Cadence sensor instead of KICKR/Power Meter.
Best regards,
Brad
Hi,
Just received a Kickr and I’m confused about Erg mode… which I’m using through TrainerRoad. It seems that TrainerRoad sets a certain resistance for the Kickr depending on the wattage that the course calls for; and I can adjust my cadence/speed as that wattage varies. If I do that though, I find that I have to ride really fast/slow throughout the ride and not at a constant cadence of 90 rpm which is where I like it. This becomes a bit awkward. Is the alternative to change gears, (i.e. switch to a higher cadence gear when the target wattage is higher)? Or does changing gears somehow lead to a change in the resistance that the Kickr sets itself at? I know it’s a silly question but I’m very new to this! Thanks for any help.
Erg mode is used to set the KICKR to a given wattage regardless of your speed or cadence. If you like to ride at 90 cadence, you can maintain 90 cadence throughout your workout and the energy in Watts will match the profile that the workout calls for. How hard you have to pedal at 90 cadence will change depending on the set wattage. Remember that Power(Watts) = Torque(How hard it is to pedal) * Cadence. So for a given power you can increase your cadence and pedal easier, or decrease your cadence and pedal harder. Beware as you get tired you naturally want to decrease your cadence, in Erg mode this is not a good idea, because it will get harder to pedal as you slow your cadence. You’ll learn not to daydream and slow your cadence using Erg mode pretty quick!
Thanks for your help! So bottom line is just keep the same cadence and don’t worry about changing gears?
yes
It’s a little confusing at first. If anything, keep it in the small ring to reduce noise. From what I understand “speed” is simply the result of what gear you have it in. Kind of meaningless in this case…
That will definitely work. Keep in mind that lower gears and lower speed are quieter, but with the flywheel spinning slow it doesn’t feel quite as realistic. I usually use low gears when I’m not putting out a lot of power because it is quieter and go a little faster when I am doing really tough efforts. The momentum of the flywheel will even out the pedal stroke and feel more natural when you are going faster.
-Chip
Yes that works for me the best as well. I’m putting the chain on 39T front and about 14-15T on the back in ERG mode. That makes for about 30km/h in real life and has the best ride feeling and almost no noise. When you put your gear on 30T front and 28T on the back it makes the least noise, but the mass of the flywheel doesn’t compensate the dead spots enough between pushing your left en right leg. When climbing 11% without ERG mode it feels realistic though, because in real life you come almost directy to a standstill as well.
So when it doesn’t feel real/fluid, just adjust gears.
I also experienced that you can train in ERG mode hills or long flat tracks. When you push 240 Watt in ERG mode, turning to a cadence of 75 really trains your main muscles in your upper leg and bottom. When riding 220W and having a cadance of 95, you train for long flat pieces of road. It really makes a lot difference and it’s great! No more pedalling at 75 RPM on flat roads in real life at full power to train my mountain muscles. I love it!
Hi
I have currently the issue that I have to calibrate it every time I use the KICKR.
when I start, the first 10 min the power is not real fixed. I meant that it fluctuates constant, even when in ERG mode i put it to 100 watt.
After 10min I try to calibrate it and then after a while the KICKR can maintain the power.
I do not move the KICKR.
Is this normal?
Sorry for the duplicate post. I was on my tablet and replied to the wrong/previous post of yours (Kristof) for a similar problem.
Kristof, did you get this fixed? After about a month of use mine just started acting similarly. In fact it fluctuates so much it is nearly impossible to ride depending on the training program. I have a support ticket submitted and I’m hoping to hear back tomorrow from Wahoo.
Hi Kristof,
Check in with our support folks and they can get it sorted for you. Definitely sounds like something odd is going on.
thanks,
Chip
My new Kickr arrived on Saturday, very soon after ordering. I was very much looking forward to using it, set it up, mostly using this review as the instructions are pretty vague on the piece of paper provided.
I paired the device with my iphone using the app, but no power and no speed readings, and no control over the brake, so no resistance. I have logged an email with Wahoo, how long do you typically need to wait for a reply? Very strange support not to have any phone number whatsoever to contact them. I’m hoping it can be solved quickly…
Hi John,
I have exactly the same problem with mine (see #695), have you received any reply from wahoo?
I sent an e-mail 18.11.2013, but still no answer. Have you found a solution by yourself?
Wait and see…
John,
It normally takes 24 hours for a response, sometimes longer for KICKR support tickets over the weekend as we don’t have anyone specialised doing support over the weekend. We do have limited phone support, check the contact page for details (link to wahoofitness.com).
I can also suggest that you follow any FAQ on our KICKR support page. (link to support.wahoofitness.com)
Daniel/Murray,
Still nothing back from Wahoo after 2 working days since I emailed my issue, and I haven’t managed to fix it myself. Thanks for the link to the phone Murray, I left a message today, but no call back. I see that the phone line is manned only at certain times (see copy of link below), I tried calling in the time slot today. Have mild worries now over my purchase, and don’t want to have to go through the whole hassle of returning etc. Not great, but at least I have not sold my fluid trainer or rollers, this is why I have been reluctant to switch to an electronic trainer….
Phone Support
(404) 939-2447
Phone Hours:
Tuesday: 2pm – 5pm EST
Thursday: 10am – 12pm EST
Friday: 10am – 12pm EST
Hi John,
I just responded via the support and gave you my email. Not sure how you were missed. I think if you update the ticket it gets marked as new and goes to the bottom of the queue… We’ll get it sorted.
thanks,
Chip
I just purchased a new KICKR from Wahoo. Oddly the sticker on the box that you typically have to remove to open was already cut open with a blunt object. Everything seemed to be in the box and set up fine. However, there is a metal on metal grinding noise in the flywheel.
It does not seem ridable the way that it is which is a real bummer because I just got rid of my old trainer this weekend to make space for the KICKR.
Is there some adjustment that needs to be done? I connected the Wahoo fitness app to the KICKR and made sure the resistance was at 0. What could this be? Has anyone had this issue?
Hi,
Dmatteazz
Nov 18 03:03 pm (EST)
Hello,
I’m really desapointed. I just received my Kickr, and tried to do my first workout, but power data or speed isn’t displayed.
– I downloaded the Wahoo Fitnes on my Iphone 5
– I have paired the kickr adding the sensor “powermeter/Kickr”, which has been detected (also Garmin 910xt detected it)
-“Control your Kickr power trainer”, “bike power”, etc. enabled
– the power data is not displayed, even on the Garmin
– The only resistance control mode working is “resistance”, the others don’t
– I downloaded Wahoo utility, tested bluetooth-KICKR: Kickr is connected, but no display of power or speed
Any ideas?
Thanks!
hi, whats the bike block (for the front wheel) you are using in the photo with the girls bike? its nice and small and looks like doesn’t take up too much space. tks. Alan
There’s a few of them here. It’s just a generic one, like the Elite one shown in this Amazon list but without branding: link to amazon.com
Hi DC/Group,
yesterday I rode the San Francisco tour with the desktop/Win7 version of CycleOps VirtualTraining. I did the whole ride (about 22km). There were two things drawing my attention.
1. There is a delay in the KICKR control of about 3-5 seconds. You can notice this clearly in the SF tour – in this ride you have many changes from flat to climb or the other way around because of the hills in San Francisco. Only after 5 seconds you feel the difference in the KICKR after the change on the screen (either in video, or in the data on the screen). The video and the data on the screen is consistent and the video is smooth. This delay was ALWAYS there, not sometimes.
2. In total three or four times (in total ride of 22 KM), suddenly the resistance on the KICKR disappeared. After some seconds (5 – 15) it came back to normal.
Platform: Win7 on iMac 2011 Intel (Bootcamp). All devices, including the KICKR, connected through ANT+ via the Suunto mini USB adapter.
Any idea what this can be? Anyone in the group having the same experience?. If you are using the VirtualTraining Win7 desktop application – what kind of delay, if any, are you seeing? Thanks! rgds.
Hi, re.1 this is reply from CycleOps VT:
“Ad 1) 3-5 seconds is standard time of full respond of KICKR (the resistance is set up). Believe me, KICKR is really fast in comparison with some other trainers! This is HW limitation and we are not able to change it.”
@Wahoo: is this to be compared with post #740 and #741? Are you also working with Cycleops to increase response?
Thanks. Cheers.
+1 for a DOA I think with my new Kickr. Wahoo ticket taken Sunday so I guess I’ll wait for them to confirm but otherwise will just request a replacement from Apple. Unusual but I really like the look of what the Kickr will do – even if it doesn’t work.
Hey Guys,
Be sure and check in with support If you are seeing no speed reading or erratic speed readings on a brand new KICKR. Brad’s scrambling trying to confirm precisely what is going on and come up with a quick solution. It seems that the latest batch some of the units speed sensors are a bit too far from the optical pickup causing the speed to not be detected reliably. We’ll post more details on our support FAQ shortly. We have a few workable fixes, trying to determine the easiest field update so that it isn’t necessary to ship them back.
thanks,
Chip
Hi Chip,
neither SPEED nor POWER reading in my case…
Hi Daniel,
The problem is with the speed sensor but it shows up in power and other functionality also. Power is calculated by taking torque * speed, so when speed is wrong it also makes power wrong. We’re working on an update on the support site with some more details.
thanks,
Chip
Read your reviews on indoor cycle training– Wahoo, Tacx, etc. These are definitely made for younger bike competitors. I’m in my 60’s and definitely don’t race. I’m looking for something that will interface with video games for either PlayStation or Xbox. The software that comes with the products you reviewed just look like a bunch of street views and I think after awhile, for a non-cyclist like me, I’d get tired of just seeing another street somewhere in the world. I saw Cyberbike– it looks old and only made for the Wii (no longer made) and bad reviews and I can’t find any current video games that interface with a true bicycle– well, the Fisher Price perhaps but I’m a little big for that. My question— would any of the products you have reviewed interface with PlayStation 4 or the new XBox?
Hi Gary-
No, none of them do. The challenge with developing for those platform is the extremely high cost of entry from a software standpoint, compared to no cost of entry for Desktop/Tablet platforms. Thus, unlikely for most of the trainer companies.
Gary
Not sure what you want to get out of a ride. This evening I hopped on my KICKR with my old Specialized 07 Transition bike, using Kinomap Trainer, along with Pink Floyd “Dark Side of the Moon” and took a 21 mile ride in Rigaud Canada. All from the comfort of my basement in Missouri! It’s a great machine with lots of software options. (Sure they are still working out some kinks) I’m not a racer like a lot of these other folks, just an old guy trying to have a little fun while staying in shape for out door rides and burning off a little fat in the process. And YES I’m over 60!
Dave
Rainmaker,
At what point do you change your recommendation based on the product quality, customer support and Wahoo’s ability to scale?
I doubt you would recommend hardware and software to your IT clients with these issues. I know the trainer is cool and I love the tech. However, Wahoo and the KICKR product is unreliable.
Any industry analyst in your profession weighs viability, support and quality criteria seriously. If you were using a quadrant, Wahoo would be a challenger, not a leader. For the good of your credibility and the trust you build with us, I ask you to consider this.
Thanks,
Jesse
It’s challenging, because while I certainly see folks here with issues – one has to also remember that this is the single place where folks do go and post issues. So the comments section is sorta like forums, it often only attracts people with troubleshooting problems. And, from what I’m seeing, Wahoo is sorting them out when they pop up. I can e-mails every day with quite happy KICKR users.
While I would like to see Wahoo respond within a few hours, I’m also realistic that in some cases people are upset because they sent an e-mail on Tuesday afternoon and haven’t received an e-mail Wednesday morning.
In other cases, Wahoo has dropped the ball on support cases, and they’ve generally been upfront about that here in the comments too.
There’s also the reality that in some cases it really is the persons problem for not reading instructions, or, posting here without ever even trying to contact support. In fact, it’s a bit of a challenge for Wahoo because if there is a problem with a batch of units – people come here and expect Wahoo support. Wahoo can’t easily track that to understand if there’s a random one-off issue, or something in a batch. And yet (as you’ve seen), Wahoo is still helping folks resolve support queries here.
Looking at the trainer industry across the board, the only area where Wahoo isn’t 1st place in every category I can think of is support. And in this case, they’re in 2nd place (beyond CycleOps). But if I look at every other company in that category, the others support practices are less ideal. Take for example Tacx, I did actually include that in my review on their recent trainer because their support is such a mess and frustrates so many people. If I look at Kinetic, it’s behind Wahoo – people were having problems for weeks or months without Kinetic solving them.
I have my Kickr since 2 days, made one ride and it worked without problems.
It’s like Ray said, people without problems aren’t writing here.
Just an update on my experience with the Kickr. I too had trouble out of the box with my unit. It was returned and I had a new Kickr before my old one was out the door. I didn’t like the hassle either but it has turned out to be easily worth the trouble. I am now using as the weather here in Illinois turns to “expletive deleted”! Anyway I would council all to have a little patience, it will be worth it.
I do not have any monetary involvement with Kickr just a satisfied user.
Jerry
I should have said I am using it all the time now that the weather has turned. I received the machine last spring and road outside for the previous 6 months.
Jerry
No problems here with the trainer, just fun and hard training!
I received my KICKR as part of the RFLKT+ Kickstarter reward, had it now for a month or so and its great.
I did have a problem with it when it arrived as the cassette was buckled but Wahoo were straight on it and shipped a replacement cassette out within a week to me in the UK. Fitted it and haven’t looked back.
Total awesomeness!!!!
Don’t hesitate if you are thinking of a KICKR as your next trainer, as with all forums its generally only problems that are posted, this piece of kit is the mutts nuts!!!
If you do run into a problem the support from Wahoo is top dollar too.
OK,
Could somebody give me an idiots guide on how to perform a 20min FTP test on my KICKR.
Apps I have are ,,
Wahoo Fitness – iphone
Cyclemeter – iphone
VirtualTraining – ipad
intervals iMi – iphone.
iMi seems to be the one that would be most appropriate but I dont really understand it,
I found a workout ’20 Minute FTP Test’ self explainitary added it and start it then confusion?
’15:00 of warmup’ – watts endurance?
‘5:00 of Intense Warmup’ – watts VO2-MAX
‘5:00 of Spin down’ – Watts recovery
’20:00 of Test Interval’
’20:00 of cooldown’ watts recovery
The part I dont follow is the watts?
what are –
‘watts endurance’ what should I be doing aiming at?
also watts VO2-MAX and watts recovery?
HELP
also in the description on completion is says upload to iMi and find the avg for the 20mins and subtract 5% etc?
Is there not a way of just performing the test and getting a result which is my FTP? I dont mind subtracting 5% but I just need it to display the avg of the 20mins at the end none of the rest?
I would just like a simple way of doing this approx once a month.
Many thanks
@Kevin K -FTP test
you need the value form the 2 min Test interval, the rest is warm up/cool down which you should also do. For the Watts listed in iM:
’15:00 of warmup’ – watts endurance? -> Zone 2: steady riding, you can still talk, legs are not “burning”. Do a good warm up, maybe you more than 15+5 min..!
’5:00 of Intense Warmup’ – watts VO2-MAX -> Zone 5: You can turn the Watts up and down to produce “spikes”. This is where your body is put to work! Don’t waste it all, but get some serious watts in. Try high spinning while increasing watts and lower the intensity when the candence drops – repeat!
’5:00 of Spin down’ – Watts recovery -> Zone 1: Easy rolling/sweet music after 5 hectic minutes. Pulse drops real low.
’20:00 of Test Interval’ -> Zone 4: This is it! Focus, start off at a watt level you find ok hard. 20 min can be long, som do not be too optimistic! Concentrate and adjust the power so you end up with the highest possible average for all 20 minutes, maybe even start conservative and raise it after 10 min.
’20:00 of cooldown’ watts recovery -> Zone 1: Easy rolling/sweet music, pulse should come all the way down – or maybe you are ready for another “sample” 😉
Now calculate your FTP (Functional Threshold Power). If your average power for the 20 min. Test interval was 260W then multiply by 0.95 to get your FTP: 260*0.95 = 247
From now on you have a number to go for in all future rides. These rides contain intervals that are below and above you FTP. Everybody has their own personal FTP, but training programs/intervals can be generalised with this value as your reference point. Repeat the test every 4-6 weeks or when you feel a change in overall form.
Read the book that has it all covered for real humans:
/Lars
To my post above regarding @Kevin K .FTP test:
All links messed up. They should be as Link1/2 just after first sentence:
Link 1:
link to blog.trainingpeaks.com
Link2:
link to home.trainingpeaks.com
Last link, the book:
The Power Meter Handbook, link to amazon.com
🙂 Lars
Hi Kevin,
iMobileIntervals is my app and as you found iMobileIntervals provides this workout in our online public workouts library.
To answer your questions as best I can:
* There are lots of ways to get your FTP, some harder, some easier, some more accurate and some less so. This workout is provided as a “quick and simple” way to test it. The workout description link to imobileintervals.com makes note of some other ways to do it, which either involve longer efforts or studying race or ride data graphs.
* iMi doesn’t have a built in test, in the sense that there is a special workout where it runs the calculation on your effort and spits back the numeric FTP. It also doesn’t have the ability to look at each split of your workout result and display your average watts for that interval. You’d need that feature to be able to get a value from the 20min ftp test without uploading the workout result to a cloud service (e.g. Garmin Connect or TrainingPeaks. where you can analyze the result.
* Garmin Connect and IMobileIntervals websites are both free, as is TrainingPeaks basic, so there are easy solutions to checking your data to get the watts average you need for the calculation
* watts recovery/watts endurance/watts VOMAX refer to prescribed intensity zones for the interval. If you are using the KICKR and have ALREADY entered an FTP value in your account or app setting, the app will control the KICKR in ERG mode, targeting the average watts for that zone (e.g. 113% of FTP in zone VOMAX). Otherwise, its nothing but informational for you to judge your effort.
* This workout uses five minutes of VOMAX to pre-stress the system, giving a more accurate FTP measurement using the following 20 minute interval.
An update of the app in in progress. I’ll look into ways to generate an ftp measurement right within the app, so as to eliminate the need to look at the data online.
I’ve had mine for about a week. I had it set up within minutes. I’m using it in conjunction with Trainer Road and Sufferfest and it’s pure awesomeness!!!
I like JohnD and Daniel received my Kickr Tuesday after paying $190 to have it overnighted to make sure that I didn’t miss my workout last night. Big mistake. It picks up the sensor but doesn’t display speed or power. I filled out a ticket immediately, Called repeatedly today, even in the 10-12 time period they said they have customer service and no response at all. It is a little hard to believe that I need to get answers for the issue through this web site which is the reason I bought the thing to begin with. Looking for answers and a refund of the overnight charge for the paperweight.
Based upon the little bit of information found on this website I was able to fix my problem with the Kickr myself. Don’t try yourself as it might void your warrantee, but I cut two new slots for the optical eye and moved it closer to the black and white disk. It now works flawlessly. I am not suggesting you do the same and if you do so you do so at your own risk. I’ve been enjoying Kinomap and this is fun and what I expected to begin with. Other than the initial problems, this is a nice product.
Well the deed is done, 1st FTP complete :0
In the end I used Wahoo fitness on LEVEL 3 in the KICKR options then pressed lap on the RFLKT+ every interval.
Uploaded to Garmin for the results and got an average power over the 20 minutes of 259W.
So therefore 259×0.95=246.05…
There’s a starting point for me.
Thanks guys for your help…absolutely fooked now!
Kevin 🙂
Hey Kevin,
If you want a “Fun” way of doing the FTP in the future, I would recommend “Rubber Glove” from the Sufferfest. link to thesufferfest.com I use that in conjunction with Trainer Road and could not be happier with the results. I do have some minor issues and a wish list. You can see them in my post on 24 November 2013.
I am a Sufferlandrian, ride all the videos and plan to do the Tour of Sufferlandria in January 2014. Give it a go and you will be hooked.
IWBMATTKYT
A followup to my posts. The folks at Wahoo were trying to figure out the problem with a new shipment, one of which I received, when I was trying to contact them. They did contact me late last night, did everything they could to help me out, offered to send another unit overnight and definately understood my concerns and responded appropriately. I now have used he Kickr extensively, and I love this thing. I was using a Real Power Wireless Elite, and it was buggy as you could get and with the upgrade to Windows 8.1, and unsigned drivers, I gave up trying to get it to work and bought the kickr. Entirely worth the effort and about as real an outside experience as i could hope for. It was again well worth the effort to get this thing and the folks at Wahoo, while a small company, are passionate about what they do and believe in the product.
I just started cycling during July 2013 here in the states and knew I needed a trainer come winter. I only learned of the kickr in early November. I went and bought it, didn’t think twice and actually found this site after the purchase. Ultimately I too have the optical sensor flaw. I contacted wahoo tech support on November 21, 2013 and they were up front and honest in admitting a production flaw. “Working in an engineering department myself I greatly appreciate the honesty”. I just received an email reply with support and repair information, one day later after discovering the issue. I am thrilled at the response from them, though I did reply to my initial post as I was 15 hours into the ticket without assignment. Bravo, Wahoo fitness as I may have sold an IT and software engineer on this item due to the response they have shown with taking care of a customer. Thanks and keep cycling!
2 for 2 on DOAs…..
Question for one of the Wahoo team – have you narrowed down the sensor issue now so that the faulty batch can be pulled from your suppliers? I’m in the UK and ordering through Apple (slightly cheaper). Don’t want to get yet another and have to return this.
Respectfully at this price I’d rather not be performing the field repair 😉
Reading the success stories only makes me more frustrated to get training, especially now our weather is cooling down!
Thanks
Hey Frankie,
Can you contact me at chip at wahoofitness.com. I believe we have it sorted, but would be good to get some more information from you. Also can get you a replacement if necessary straight from our warehouse.
thanks,
Chip
Cheers Chip. I’ve got ticket 75052 open in your support system if you want to check that out.
I have connected my Kickr to TrainerRoad (TR) on my MacBook Pro which has the Garmin ANT+ dongle or collect HR & Cadence. My bike has a Stages Power meter and no cadence sensor as the Stages normally provides this data to the Garmin on the road.
With this set up I am getting:
Power / speed / distance on TR from the Kickr.
Heart rate displayed on TR from the Garmin strap
However I get no Cadence from the Stages. Do you know if it’s possible to pick this up on TR or do I need to attach a Garmin candence sensor?
Also another question is on the speed / distance I am getting when doing Sufferfest videos on TR seems very low. Like 20km/h for an hour at 230 watts? I have it set to km/h but am now wondering if it’s reading mp/h?
You’re in a pickle there as both the KICKR and the Stages are seen as power meters, and thus, you can only actively use one – even if they contain different sensor channels (i.e. cadence vs speed).
On the Macbook you could go with either the BlueSC (Wahoo BLE sensor), or the ANT+ sensor (with ANT+ USB adapter). Generally speaking you’ll find something like the GSC-10 from Garmin cheaper, but not always.
Jason,
Ray is right, a lot of software and hardware products won’t let you connect multiple power meters (stages and KICKR) so its a little difficult.
We are working on some new KICKR firmware that will re-broadcast the cadence data from the Stages via the KICKR… although I am not 100% sure when this will be released.
Thanks Rainmaker. I have the Garmin sensor already but do not have it fitted to my bike as I use the Garmin GPS for speed and Stages for cadence so was hoping to avoid fitting it just for use on the Kickr.
Thanks Wahoo Murray. Sounds fantastic that you guys are working on a solution already! Great idea 🙂
In the meantime I have all the data on Trainer Road except for the cadence and to use that information for the training programs I am turning on my Garmin and set a screen for just cadence so read this from there which works fine. Just means my files are missing the additional data at the moment.
Wahoo Murray,
Is there any update on the new firmware to re-broadcast cadence data from the Stages via the KICKR?
thanks
I am very interested in buying a Kickr, but as I live in the UK, I do have concerns about the warranty and support. The Wahoo website would seem to intimate that a faulty unit would need to be shipped at the purchaser’s expense to Wahoo; I would suggest that it isn’t feasible for a purchaser in the UK to ship a 46Ib Kickr to the USA. Also, with regards to the Distance Selling Regulations in the UK, it is the seller who must pay return carriage costs for a faulty item.
I was initially thinking of purchasing a Tacx i-Genius Multiplayer VR Trainer due to the fall in price to £800-850. However, the ongoing comments on reliability and (lack of) support for the Tacx unit put me off. As there would now seem to be production issues with the Kickr, is anybody able to comment on the warranty and support offered to a UK purchaser? I have asked this question on the Wahoo website, but I am waiting for a reply.
Cheers,
Mark
Mark I’m pretty sure the Wahoo guys will give you reassurance regards their site and service but as a UK buyer I can definitely confirm Apple will ship, and handle returns/refunds, at no expense, so that might be another option for you.
Mark I’m pretty sure the Wahoo guys will give you reassurance regards their site and service but as a UK buyer I can definitely confirm Apple will ship, and handle returns/refunds, at no expense.
Hi Mark,
We have a warehouse and support center in the Netherlands, so we can take care of things in the UK fairly efficiently. If you received something that didn’t work out of the box, we wouldn’t expect you to pay for return shipping, that’s more for things into the warranty period.
thanks,
Chip
Mark, I live in Dubai and ordered my Kickr via the Apple store online as they are the only retailer. I received one of the faulty ones so feared the worst sending back a 28kg package from here. One call to Apple to report the issue and they sent a courier within 48 hours to bring me a new Kickr free of charge and took away the faulty one. Fantastic customer service 🙂
After six weeks, here are my observations using a Wahoo Kickr with Trainer Road, Windows XP and a Suunto ANT+ adaptor.
The Kickr seems to delay the commands sent from Trainer Road by about 2 seconds and then keeps the target power in for about 3 – 5 seconds after the interval is over. No matter how hard I try, I am always short on average watts on an interval due to this delay. At the end of an interval, it will say goal power is 250 your power 248, 98% accuracy. You can see that there is a delay if you zoom into the first 4 intervals on my “Ebbetts” workout. Looking at the individual sprints, the power curve shifts right of the target power. Target power is 228 but because of the delay, my power is 223. I wish there was a delay adjustment in the settings. If there is, I couldn’t find it.
The delay is not a big deal on the longer intervals. However, on the short burst sprint intervals like on my “Clark” workout, the goal power might be 536 but my power will only be 117 even tho I observed my power spike up to 600 watts on my Garmin. The delay makes these short sprints impossible.
I also made the mistake of pausing during one of these high power sprints. That pauses the program with the target resistance set really high. Because I have to pedal for five seconds to start the program back up, and due to the low cadence, it is impossible to apply enough force to actually un-pause the program (Power = Force x Cadence). I was standing full force on one pedal and using my hands on the ceiling to push down, but still could barely overcome the resistance. (and I weight 225 pounds). If you can get your pedals to move for the five seconds, you have to hope that the target power and Kickr power adjusts back to normal levels. I ended up starting the whole workout over.
I have learned that during a high cadence interval, I should slow my cadence down while there is still a higher resistance on the Kickr. If you wait to slow down after the interval is over, the flywheel will be spinning too fast with little resistance to slow it down. You have to stop peddling for some time before you feel some resistance on the pedals (which may pause the program). I wish the program was smart enough to realize that I’m not peddling, and the resistance is to low to slow the freewheel, so it should add a little breaking until things get back to normal.
Another issue I have noticed is that sometimes the program will not adjust the resistance on the Kickr at the end of an interval. It’s like the Kickr has ADHD and doesn’t always pay attention to the TR commands. I will be doing an interval at 254 watts and then a rest of 107. The goal on the screen is 107 but the resistance on the Kickr will stay at 240 watts. See my “Thunder” workout between interval two and three. I have discovered that I can adjust the power on my iPhone, using the Wahoo app and then, the TR program will adjust the resistance on the start of the next interval. Maybe the TR app should send multiple commands to the Kickr to adjust the resistance, even if it is the same resistance level?
You can see another example of this on my first” 8 Minute Test.” During the first test interval the Kickr’s resistance did not released to Standard mode (it did say Standard on the screen). The resistance stayed at 107 which negated the test results. I stopped peddling and paused the program but that did not reset the resistance on the Kickr. Everything seemed to work on the second eight minute interval (except for me messing with gearing and cadence half way through). I moved my Windows laptop closer to my bike and have turned Wi-Fi off during the training sessions but that doesn’t seem to help.
When the Kickr is on, it’s really spot on, but every once in a while it will throw me a curve.
Thanks for the feedback Patrick. It’s a bit on us and a bit on Trainer Road. We’re working with them to get things working a little cleaner. They need a bit more feedback from the KICKR to make sure things are where they think they are. We’re also putting in a separate channel for commands so they can send them to the KICKR at up to 16 times per second without interfering with the power data we’re sending back. Still have a bit of debugging to do before it’s ready to release to them, but it’s looking good.
-Chip
Frankie, Chip and Jason,
Many thanks for the replies. Chip, I also received your e-mail via Wahoo – a very quick reply and much appreciated.
Cheers,
Mark
Rainmaker,
I have a question about your progress on the watt variation from your crank based power meter to the Kickr trainer that changed dramatically with speed. I am interested in getting a wahoo Kickr but if this problem is unresolved I would like to know because I have no other means of power measurement to test my Kickr against. I would never know about the incorrect power. I saw this problem on a Slowtwitch post but never found a resolution.
Thanks,
Chris
Sorry, I’m not entirely sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?
Chris,
I think you are talking about some early firmware that seemed to drift compared to a Quarq at high speed, if you look at Ray’s review he commented about how solidly it tracked. When I say new, I mean firmware release 9 months ago.
Here is the quote from the review:
Ray: “Here’s a workout I completed on the latest firmware, and you can see just how solid it tracked against both the Quarq”
I hope that answers your question.
Rainmaker, Wahoo Murray,
I was referring to a Slowtwitch post at the end of August where you showed data that displayed a drop in watts (in comparison to your srm) when your speed increased. It sounded like as the tire speed increased the power dropped. Maybe this is no longer an issue which I hope is the case. Thanks for the input. I hope this helps. I am in the market for the best trainer and any input to sway my choice one way or the other would be appreciated. I am wanting to make sure power accuracy remains accurate within reason across all tire speeds.
Thanks again,
Chris
That wasn’t me. I don’t have an SRM.
Chris,
To be honest I think the most important thing is to have consistent and repeatable results. Something that KICKR does very well. If you don’t have another power meter, then you aren’t comparing it to anything, even if you did, I believe indoor power and outdoor power are two very different things. I personally keep 2 different FTP values for indoor and outdoor as they are two very different training environments.
Power isn’t a competition to get the highest numbers between your mates, its about being able to repeatedly quantify your own progress using a reliable metric that can be used in a variety of ways.
Rainmaker, wahoo Murray,
Sorry about the confusion I wasn’t paying enough attention to who posted the comments. I agree with Wahoo Murray about having a consistent means of tracking power however my concern about losing true power with an increase in speed makes me worried about not getting the amount of resistance your thinking your getting. Not trying to be sarcastic but of course it’s a competition about who has the higher FTP. That’s why we race.
Rainmaker, wahoo Murray,
Sorry about the confusion I wasn’t paying enough attention to who posted the comments. I agree with Wahoo Murray about having a consistent means of tracking power however my concern about losing true power with an increase in speed makes me worried about not getting the amount of resistance your thinking your getting. Not trying to be sarcastic but of course it’s a competition about who has the higher FTP. That’s why we race.
I am sure Ray will agree, any power meter is going to give you +/- 5-10 watts… SOOOO many other things come into play. Where the power is read?, Does it have any damping effects?, has it been calibrated?, is calibration important?….
From our testing we do not see any drift at any speed. We have tuned the KICKR to a high precision dyno and compared it to many top of the class power meters with outstanding results
If anyone in the UK is debating whether on getting this. The UK Apple store has it at £101 off today. So its *only* £848. Ordered mine earlier. Should be here on Monday.
Thank you for the review. What is your opinion on muscle development on trainers that utilize the bikes rear wheel vs the rear wheel being removed?
Thank you.
Hmm, I’ve never thought about it, nor, ever heard anyone in the industry mention it.
Hi guys,
I will buy a kickr. But I’m in doubt about where I buy it: Wahoo site or Apple store?
I will stay on US only 11 days. So, I will need to receive and test it before I leave the US.
If I have problem and I will need to send it back, What will be the best option? Reading the posts here, the Apple store is very fast in changing it.
Another thing, what I will need to test the wahoo in a hotel room? 😀 I will rent a bike in Orlando and try to connect it in the laptop or ipad or iphone. What would be the things that I will need to test?
thanks
Just purchased a Kickr and cannot do a successful spindown test. Speed seems to be measuring accurately up to a certain point but then becomes erratic and after many attempts have been only able to get to the required speed once. The one time that the target speed was obtained and stopped pedaling, the unit seemed to be coasting down properly but after a few seconds abruptly stops. What are we doing wrong? Have a proper ipad and Bluetooth. Wahoo fitness app has not directed the firmware to be updated so using whatever was already installed.
Hi Dwight,
We’ve seen a few units with an issue reading the speed sensor out of the box lately. It sounds like that is what you are experiencing. Really sorry about that! I checked the support site but didn’t see a ticket. If you contact us there, we can help you get it sorted quickly. If you email me also(chip at wahoo fitness), I’ll make sure we get right back to you. The support guys are crazy busy with the holiday sales rush.
thanks,
Chip
After all the reading I did to help my buddy avoid mistakes, just now saw instruction on Wahoo Fitness App to ride for 10 minutes before calibrating! Have not seen that mentioned by anyone in any comments. Seems like this would be important! Was well aware that a warmup period is required for a Computrainer to let the tire warm up so is it the belt on the Kickr that warms up?
If Wahoo Fitness app does not indicate that the firmware needs to be updated would still like to confirm this? Is there a way to request a firmware update verification?
Hi Dwight,
If you connect to the KICKR with the Wahoo App or the Wahoo Utility it will definitely prompt you if you need to update. Most of the units being shipped now have the latest firmware on them already and don’t need to be updated out of the box. The next version of the Utility will have a bit more information about the KICKR available.
thanks,
Chip
I want to use this product mostly in the ERG. mode. So I’m still confused about the Android version. It looks like the only way to Control the unit is with the Iphone. But if i don’t have an Iphone?
Hi Steven,
We have a beta App for android that will control the KICKR in Erg mode if you have an Android device that supports Bluetooth 4.0 and is running Android 4.3 or newer. You can get a copy from here: link to wahoofitness.com You can also use a PC or Mac if you don’t have an iPhone.
thanks,
Chip
Hi,
i have a Garmin cadence censer on the bike and got a ant+ key from Wahoo, and i still cannot get my Cadence.
Am i doing anything wrong, do i need to do anything more then plugging the Ant key in to my iPad?
Thanks
Yup, you’ll need to add the sensor within the sensor menu. Then you’ll be good to go.
Thanks rainmaker for ur reply,i have tried adding it however it still does not pickup the Garmin cadence censor even tried getting out of sleep mode by peddling.
Purchased the kicker trainer and love it. The only issue I have is that my husband just tried it this weekend and likes it. Now I have to share. It was a huge investment and totally worth it. DCR, thank you for all the time you put into your reviews.
This may be useful to some riders who pair Garmin Edge with the KICKR as it took me a while to get it right.
Problem – For bikes which already have power meters, Garmin is not recording speed / cadence data during KICKR workouts
Why is this a problem – No speed data equals no distance data, which some people use to manage training load
Reason – As Ray rightly pointed out in the “really important bit”, as the back wheel is taken off, you wouldn’t have a magnet flying past the sensor to give you speed data from the bike’s speed/cadence sensor
Solution – Here are the steps you need to go through:
1) Take the bike to one side, so your Garmin can’t pick up any Ant+ feed from the bike
2) Turn on Wahoo KICKR and Garmin Edge, and create a new bike profile in Garmin (it’s under bike settings)
3) Search for a power meter sensor, this should then pick up the feed from KICKR which, VERY IMPORTANTLY, gives both power and speed data
4) Now bring over the bike and search for the speed/cadence sensor, which should be coming from the bike because KICKR can’t tell you about cadence
You are then good to go. So basically, Power Meter sensor should be linked to KICKR which gives you both speed and power, and speed/cadence sensor should point to the bike which gives you cadence.
Hope this is useful to some.
Hey Steve, thanks for this. I was having problems setting this up.
I have used my kicker since last May and now it just started making a loud ringing noise while in use. Anyone else heard this?
I turned in a ticket so hope I get a response. When I get it solved I post again!
Jerry
How is the Wahoo Kickr for standing up on the pedals action? And simulate climbing? I have not used a trainer before, but when on the road i’m best at climbs, and I stand up a lot. Somewhere on this page I read that it is not recommended to do full power stand up action, cause of stress to the bike frame. Is this so?
I don’t see a major problem here. As long as don’t try to throw your bike to the left and right (like in a sprint) it should be fine. Hold your upper body in steady position and just work with your legs.
Does anyone else have problems doing short intervals in erg mode on trainer road? The kickr seems to take way too long to increase resistance and once it gets there lowers resistance too quickly if you increase cadence a bit and go over the set power.
It should take about 2 (maybe 3) seconds for the KICKR to reach the target watts depending on the delta.
Not sure what you mean that it lowers the resistance too quickly if you increase your cadence.
Well this is the third day with support not solving my noise issue. This thing sounds like its falling apart inside. This is the second Kickr I’ve had. The first one would not work at all. I hope I’m not headed for #3. I have a ticket in and only one followup question to send a video, my follow up was did you get the video? No response.
While waiting for Wahoo Support, maybe some of you have comments:
I have used the KICKR for a month or so now. The first time I rode I was shocked by the noise it produced – it was jet-plane-level and I had to pedal 120 rpm to keep the watts at target. After this I have updated firmware and tried different apps.
By now the noise (and rpm) has gone down from airport-at-take-off to standard inside-some-factory.
I have noticed that when riding in ERG-mode in TrainerRoad I ride in e.g. Resistance-mode for a while -> shift to ERG and start the ride. In the first 30 seconds, it feels good and at a comfortable rpm, but hereafter I can not hold it (as in, the cadence is increasing). So I end up spinning high rpm trying to hold the watt target, even if it’s only 150W, and the noise goes way up!
Is it because I may push too hard in the beginning? Maybe the KICKR is not designed to let me go beyond the target, but if this is the case it should be on page one in every guide to riding it, as everybody must see this during their rides… How do you guys do the ERG-rides ?
Except for ERG-mode the KICKR is good and robust. But the main reason to replace my old Tacx was to ride intervals through apps like TrainerRoad. I had hoped I could be guided through the rides without manually adjusting the levels, which is also not possible at high watt numbers
The noise is bad, as it goes straight to my wife’s tinnitus. It is also bad in the sense that on my real bike I would locate the squeeking source and lubricate or replace. In this case: Where can I lubricate ?
So please help save my wife’s ears (and mine) and tell me if there is a solution for the noise levels I experience ?
Can I lubricate ? Any tips on how “to hit ERG-mode” ?
TrainerRoad rides: link to trainerroad.com
/Lars Storm
It’s hard to say without hearing it in person if the noise is non-normal. In general trainers are loud things, and as noted with the noise comparisons above, the KICKR isn’t exactly any different than others (different tones, but ultimately in the same range). There’s no method or way to reduce the noise of the trainer (applying lubrication would be bad!).
For ERG mode, it’s designed to maintain the same wattage. Assuming you’ve calibrated at some point, it’ll maintain that wattage quite well. Even without calibration, it would only be a small variance.
If you’re increasing cadence, that’s more a function of you/your body trying to compensate for fatigue (though, most people slow down cadence).
Finally, in looking at the latest workout you had listed, I might suggest that the workout structure (doing a light warm-up at 200w and then going straight to 300w) may be contributing to some of that inability to hold it later on. A more gradual warm-up might help.
Cheers.
Hi Lars,
Hopefully someone from support will contact you soon to sort out your issue, just wanted to add a few comments here.
1. ERG Mode – If you set KICKR to 200W in ERG mode, it will hold that value regardless off your cadence. You should never need to “spin out” to try and hold the wattage value, thats the point of ERG mode.
2. Noise – When in ERG mode, keep your bike in the granny gear, since ERG mode will hold the wattage regardless of the speed and/or cadence this will keep the noise at the minimum. The KICKR really shouldn’t be that loud, If you think its abnormal, do a video or sound recording and send it to our support.
Thanks
if I am getting $300 off of a computrainer is the wahoo still recommended? is there any way to operate the wahoo without an apple product?
$300 off the CT is still $300 more than the KICKR, and even more than it’s worth used.
You can use Windows or Mac to control the KICKR. Some options here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Ray
Regarding the noise – believe me, this is different than it should be. I will replay your sound comparisons later, but it is pain! For lubricating I meant inside the hub, not the belt of course.
ERG: I calibrate often, now that I feel there is a problem, but no change.
My ride that I link to : Epic Vermont – I start out in ERG and after 5:30 I can not stand it any more (noise/crazy cadence), so I shift into Resistance mode (spikes) and return to ERG again at 15 min (also shortly at 8:30). But again it does not feel natural (and wife comes by to complain: DANGER!!!) so at 18 min I switch to Resistance and put some variation in, now that I here anyway.
After this ride I started over again from the start at around 150W in ERG to test if KICKR was “warmed up” as you mention as potential problem: after 30 secs of genuine ERG riding it spin out and went loud…
I have had a TACX Cosmos for years. This can simulate ERG rides (but the watts are not high enough, and it is outdated technically), so I know an ERG when I “see one” 🙂
/Lars
Is there some set amount of time one must cycle to “warm up” the KICKR (my basement is 60 degrees)? ERG mode is very erratic for around 8-10 minutes when I start up in the morning. I set the power to 100-130 and it bounces all over, from the 50’s up into the 200’s on occasion, and is rarely anywhere near the assigned power.
At first I thought it might be because I minimized the app to start a podcast but starting the podcast first today made no difference. Changing between modes and increasing/decreasing power has no effect either.
Hi Shannon,
60F isn’t really that cold, i’m not sure what could cause it to be erratic for the first 10minutes.
Can you submit a ticket at our support site and someone will be able to walk you through some checks. Let them know your purchase date and location as well.
Regards,
Murray
Shannon,
Did you ever sort this as my KICKR is now suffering the same effects.
It is in its 4th year and I have an open ticket with Wahoo but they have gone cold on me.
My KICKR in a garage and here in the UK its still above freezing but causing me issues.
I am running a beta software (KICKR16) on an original KICKR as instructed by Wahoo as this cuts out the strain gauge but found the only way to get it to work is warm it up for at least 10 minutes before I use it properly.
Something inside obviously no longer likes the cold. Once warm the strain gauge works fine
This is my second go around with Wahoo on support of my Kickr. This one email every couple of days is BS. I have voiced this before. I don’t care how covered up you folks are with the holidays lets take of the sales you have already made. I have left messages and used the ticket number response page on your web site and asked to call me. I know this site is not Wahoo but response time seems to be hurried along by posting here.
thanks for listening
Jerry
Well I must say Wahoo support is a disaster. I have been patient through two Kickrs and two attempts at support. The first last summer and now the present problem. I got a bunch of freebies the first time as an attempt at saying “sorry”. That doesn’t cut it. I have emailed, called and have got one response saying they want a video? and then another saying they haven’t received the email. Call me up and lets talk, how hard is that, I can crank the damn thing up let you hear it over the phone and we can then discuss it. WoW they really don’t have a handle on support do you think?
And I suppose just providing them with a video as they have requested so that they can study it to try and resolve your problem is just too much also – expecting them to be able to determine the issue over the phone where they have no idea what it is you are actually doing. Being reasonable works two ways!
…just sayin’…………….
Number one I did provide them with the video. Second it was a listening issue not a visual issue. Third they finally did hook up with me and I will be on my third Kickr. So your response is what, they have a great product.
What Wahoo has is a great concept, the products longevity and quality is questionable.
Wahoo has issues with support and quality control. Both have been recorded here. To reiterate the need for a telephone help line has been stated before as their email support isn’t working. If you email them to ask whats up please reply, your request is sent to the back of the line. This from supports own statement to me.
To comment further on my particular issue with the Kickr, I did have to call them on the help line to get satisfaction. The first thought was my noise was from a bad bearing in the larger diameter belt pulley. After discussing it with them it was determined that it was not. I had removed the belt and hand turned both the drum on the left side of the unit and the large belt pulley. The noise comes from inside the drum shaped unit on the left side,(standing behind the unit looking forward). Wahoo is not sure where its coming from. The solution is sending me my Third Kickr.
I cannot get my wahoo kickr to display power. It is connectted but will not calibrate. please advise asap.
Hi Pat-
Have you tried contacting support?
Could be a bad speed sensor. Get in line on the Wahoo support site and get a ticket number. Don’t email more than once as each email will send your request to the back of the line. In the meantime Hook your Kickr up and use the utility app and check your Kickr for connecting to your phone. You can also carefully remove the top of the angled upright and see if the sensor is plugged in. The sensor sees the black and white revolving round sticker on the large belt pulley.
I’ve had my KICKR for a month or so now and struggles with the simulation part and would like to hear your thoughts on how realistic the slope simulations are. ERG mode seems fine and I have done several calibrations etc. so I don’t think that the KICKR is faulty but feels the simulation needs some tweaking..
I have tried all the apps (Wahoo segments, Kinomap, VirtualTraining and Wahoo Fitness) and they all seems to give me too much resistance at any given slope (guess they use the same API logic for the simulation?). If I compare a Strava segment which I have ridden in real many times I constantly has to use several gears higher when riding the same segment on my KICKR. A slope above 6-7* forces me to use my highest/easiest gear which I wouldn’t need to in real.
Oscar, I just received my KICKR and feel the same way. It seems like all resistances are high compared to the wattage output. I’m having a hard time holding wattage levels that are usually no problem.
HI Ray, I did contact support. the only thing that changed recently is that i downloaded a cycling video from cyclefilms that i was trying to use with trainer road. I was never able to get it to work, but could not get power to display at all after. I can connect to the speed/cadence sensor as well as the kickr but when i attempt to do a spindown calibration no speed is shown.
On a separate note, I cannot fold the leg all the way in as it wont slide past the main wheel. Any thoughts? thanks–pat
I assume on the leg you’ve pulled the little doohicky lock thing up so unlock the leg?
(Sorry, had to ask the obvious answer)
Ray, I did ;). Thanks for your quick response. I just spoke to Megan at wahoo who thinks it may be due to an optical sensor that might have “popped” out of alignment (as Jerry diagnosed above). Have you ever heard of this? Makes me wonder if the fact that i can’t close the leg is related to the this. thanks–pat
Hi Pat,
Im a little confused about what leg you are talking about and what is stopping you from closing it, everything should have lots of clearance and don’t see how it could be related to the optical sensor.
Can you please send me some photos or video? murray @ our wahoo domain.
Thanks
I’m having an issue with my KICKR where is locks up after a few seconds of riding. I have tried recalibrating through initiating a spin down but it doesn’t seem to fix the problem.
Any advise for fixing this issue?
Tommy
Did you ever find a solution to this? I’m having the same problem, calibration doesn’t work. The only way I can get this damn thing spinning is to be in the kickr screen of a workout. Once I can’t get power above 110 watts but can get up to 35kph in granny gear!
Hi Shayde,
Please reach out to our customer support team at support.wahoofitness.com Be sure to include your KICKR serial number (located on the sticker under the flywheel) and any pertinent information about the issues you’re having. They will help trouble shoot the issue and get you up and running!
Thanks. Yeah I did, was just hoping for a quick fix. Looks like I just have one of the dud units which is a same because it was a REALLY costly (taxes and import fees) and time consuming exercise to import it into New Zealand so was actually hoping I could use it. I’m sure it will get sorted eventually though.
Shayde, did this ever get resolved for you? I am having the same problem with my Kickr.
Wahoo Murray, Re the leg not fitting under the drum. It was definitely “user error” ;). I had my 700 bike set up on the 650 mark.
BIG SHOUT out to your colleagues Megan and Brad at wahoo fitness. They went over and above in “face timing” me to diagnose my optical sensor problem and shipped a replacement right out soo i wouldn’t miss my long bike workout on sunday.
Their exceptional customer service makes a GREAT product even BETTER. thanks–pat
Just throwing a note up here as I haven’t really seen it anywhere else, but I have the Kickr and have been using the virtual training software and have had problems with it. The software loses connection with the trainer pretty frequently. It also took 20-25 seconds for it to actually change the power on a workout I created. Not sure if it is something with the Kickr slow to change or the software slow to command, but it gets annoying. I am going to try other software suites, but I really love the ability to create virtual courses.
If it’s taking 20-25 seconds, that probably falls into the camp of a VT issue more than a KICKR issue. I’d reach out to their support desk.
I’m training with both Trainerroad as Virtual Training. My experience is that the connection between de PC and de KICKR is great with Trainerroad, and it reacts very fast. I lost my connection just 1 time for a few seconds in the last three months.
.
but like all of us, we want to use video’s and TCX files from my own Garmin, so that’s why I use Virtual Training as well. It looks like the ANT+ connection disturbs the Wifi signal on Virtual Training, my internet connection lacks of signal when using Virtual Training (I want to turn on radio-player) so I went to bluetooth now and it is better a lot. But this is strange, because Trainerroad has no problems with Ant+ connection.
Virtual Training connection is lost frequently with my KICKR as well I can’t figure out why. I think there is a flaw in the software. Maybe the last update solved things for the better, I didn’t test it yet.
Overall I think that the hardware (KICKR) is fine but that the Virtual Training software being developed at this moment needs attention and it has some issues.
A thing that irritates me is that the video’s offered by Virtual Training are promised to be checked for quality. In the last months I didn’t see any video being checked anymore… This suprises me because I downloaded several video’s with a poor quality and poor height profile. Alp d’Huez has for example a really bad height profile. A kilometer 7% and then a kilometer about 14%, that just isn’t right! The lack of checking the video’s and providing good video’s and the loss of connection irritates me more and more.
Back to Trainerroad for me the coming months. It works flawless. I hope Virtual Training will concentrate on offering good quality riding video’s the next months and will fix the connection issue.
Hope they will pick it up from here. I can provide data from earlier training sessions when the connection drops.
@Matthijs (Netherlands)
had problems with quality of videos/profile in Virtual Training too…
Check out link to veloreality.com for really nice real life videos !
Though I don’t have my kickr yet (in the mail 🙂 ), I use it with e-motion rollers and my powertap and love it… I’ve done the Stelvio, tourmalet, Izoard, Ventoux etc… but with the kickr the resistance will adjust with the grade.
Hi Matthijs, good detail.
Have you had a chance to open up a support ticket with the VT guys so they can investigate and improve?
Cheers!
@Matthijs,
I have been using VirtualTraining a couple of times (different vid’s) and I noticed unexpected drops in resistance as well as trainer disconnects. Everything connected via ANT+ (Trainer, HR and Cadence). About a week ago I did SF Tour from VT: 2 disconnect, 5 resistance drops. I have asked support at VT and today he sent me a message with a ANT+ test version (basically generating a log file with all ANT+ communication). this is the link, I am not sure though if this thread is accessable by others. You might want run a test with this version and send back the logfile to developer. link to support.virtualtraining.eu
Mazzel, cheers, Dick
Wonder if anyone is having this issue with the Wahoo fitness app and controlling the KICKR…
When I go to the “Control the KICKR” page, it does not resemble the above images, and I can not manipulate any of the control features. My control page has a “Preview” icon, where the review images (so I’ve been told) does not. I am using VoiceOver, but even with this turned off a sighted individual can not work the page either, and I’ve been told by tech support that they can work the page with VoiceOver enabled. I do have the display page turned on in the workout settings, and toggling this switch on or off does not change the usability of the page. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Thanks for the great review. Have a new kicker and really am impressed with the accurate power and cadence readings. However the speed indication is definitely off. Riding thousands of miles a year I know exactly what 15-16mph feels like, for example, and the Wahoo Fitness app tells me I’m doing 11-12. Have tried the spin down calibration several times before workout, after workout, etc. Am I missing something…is there a way to tweak this setting?
If you are running in ERG mode, just select a higher gear. It may take a little trial and error with different ratios, however, I find that the 39 x 17 gives me a pretty close approximation of my road miles. I’m pretty sure the integral speed sensor is intended to calculate output watts and I’d assume not necessarily for reporting an accurate real-world speed.
Murg,
In ERG mode the goal of the trainer is to maintain the same power output at and cadence and gear (on your bike). For this reason the speed of the rear wheel will not match your outdoor speed. I personally keep my bike in the granny gear when in ERG mode as this reduces the speed of the flywheel and reduces noise. We do have some new firmware coming out that will simulate speed in ERG mode, but generally when training in ERG mode you don’t worry about speed / distance.
In simulation mode, your speed should match your outside experience.
Thanks, that might just be the ticket. Can’t find a gear selection toggle in Wahoo Fitness or Wahoo Utility apps though…are you using a different app to control your kickr?
I’m using TrainerRoad, however, the gear selection I was referring to is your actual gear selected on the bike. In ERG mode it will adjust watts independent of your gear selection or cadence, i.e. if it is set to 300 watts it doesn’t matter if you are in the 39 x 21 or any gear up to the 53 x 12, it will immediately readjust so you are always working at the prescribed setting of 300 watts.
Wahoo tends to recommend running in the big chainring to get the most realistic road feel. Since I’m uploading my rides to my Strava log it was making my hour rides look like I was cranking out a distance of 28 miles so I have found a smaller gear works better for keeping my logs honest. I think mileage is really unimportant when training with power on the KICKR but having an entry in log gives me a higher level of satisfaction as I toil away the winter in my basement.
Got my kickr today and wonder what would be the signs of a bad sensor alignement ?
My kickr seems to underestimate watts by more than 60-70 watts from my powertap…
I have trouble keeping 170w in erg mode on trainerroad (my ftp is 220-230w with powertap) and also got a couple of connection loss…
watts are also very erratics with veloreality software going form 50w to 124w while I keep a steady effort that seems more like a 180w to me….
Hi Simon,
Download the Wahoo Utility app and perform a spindown calibration. While doing this, watch the speed numbers displayed in the app. If they appear unstable and are jumping up and down then that is a good sign you might have an issue with your speed sensor. Reach out to our support team and they can help you troubleshoot and fix any issues!
support.wahoofitness.com
Best regards,
Brad
@ Brad : Yes ! it is exactly what it does… up and down when coasting…
I’already open a ticket yesterday on the support site waiting for a reply.
Thanks !
hope that is something I can fix myself and not ship back…
Ok super fast service for sending me the replacement sensor cap. (great !)
easy installation. Calibration now normal, BUT when I try to ride the damn thing after that (either on wahoo fitness, trainerroad, veloreality) the kikcr just hardens up after 8-9 seconds to max resistance and I can’t do anything after that…
what am I missing here ??????????????
Really-really-really pissed-off with this….
Simon – I had the same problem with my KICKR. The resistance would increase to 100% after about 6 seconds. Wahoo sent me a replacement and everything works okay.
Ok got this sorted out with the help of the guya at wahoo (very fast to answer, even on christmas day !)
The new sensor cap was not programmed correctly. I was able to download an iphone app to reprogram it correctly and now it works great !
Did the mortirolo on veloreality and legs are burning for sure 😉
Love the feeling of the kickr !
After reading (and rereading) the review, and all of the comments, I have decided to try the Wahoo Kickr as my indoor trainer. The main reasons are it will support my Alpha MIO (only HR appliance that works for me) and the Kickr doesn’t chew up tires.
I plan to stick — for now — with my Garmin Edge 810/Vector pedals for my outdoor rides. True, I won’t be able to record my HR for outdoor rides (although I will be able to monitor it on my wrist). I am more interested in HR for the training session.
With that as my sole use case (for now) I *think* all I need to order is the Kickr Power Trainer. Is that correct? I’ll get power from the Kickr, cadence from my Vector pedals, HR from my Alpha MIO.
Let me know if I am missing something. Like, perhaps I cannot use the Vector pedals for cadence in this situation?
To this I will add the cool stand Ray references for the iPad, and choose a 3rd-party training app (like Training Road).
I am all ears — let me know if I am making any mistaken assumptions here.
Thanks!
I’m not familiar with your HR monitor or the Vector pedals but I can comment on TrainerRoad. They currently do not have an iOS application so you’ll need to run it on a MacBook or PC with either BlueTooth 4 Smart or the ANT+ dongle. TrainerRoad reports that they are or will be working on an iOS version in the early part of 2014. You can use your iOS device to run the Wahoo Fitness app or Kinomap (there are probably others to add).
Cadence from Vector won’t end up in apps like Kinomap or the Wahoo Fitness app without the iPhone ANT+ adapter (since the cadence is ANT+). However, if you take the USB ANT+ adatper from your Vector set and add it to your computer (PC/MAC), it will work with TrainerRoad.
Otherwise, you’re good to go.
Don’t know about trainerroad, but at least the WahooFitness App does not support to pair two powermeters at the same time.
I’m using Vector& a modified GSC-10&Garmin ANT+ HR belt&Edge800 (or WahooApp&Rflkt+) to record my rides and Perfpro&KICKR to control them.
modified GSC-10: link to distilleryimage5.ak.instagram.com
Correct, there’s no regular apps I’m available out there today that can do multiple power meter stream recordings. I use some special tools to do it for reviews. Someday…
ipWatts & my old xperia mini Android phone do the job. Works fine, pairs multiple powermeters and outputs everything into a CSV file. But wouldn’t recommend it as everyday headunit. Am using it only for comparisons.
We have some new firmware for the KICKR about to come out that will “borrow” the cadence from a crank based power meter if it is seen, this way you will get Power, Speed and Cadence all from the KICKR connection.
Has this firmware been released yet?
A question for any of the Wahoo guys as have had no luck with your support. I ordered a Kickr from Wahoo Australia to ship to NZ 2 weeks ago and have had no contact or shipping info sent since I paid through Paypal at the time (Order #400000466). It seems a bit odd to take 2 weeks to ship from the warehouse if you have them in stock. All I want is some indication of when this may ship. Are you are having supply difficulties? It would be good to know but support has been somewhat unhelpful. Just emailing ‘your order is being processed’ tells me nothing…
Hey Tim,
I will check it out with our Aussie warehouse, NZ orders don’t get process automatically as we need to manually arrange a different courier.
Hey Tim,
The item is in NZ customs (since Tuesday), You didn’t get the tracking number because we process NZ orders manually, I just sent you the tracking number via your support ticket.
Murray
Hi Murray,
Thanks for getting that sorted so quickly, great service.
Cheers
Tim
Hi!! , I´ve just bought the kickr to use it with trainerroad and windows xp, after installing trainer road on my pc it seems like it does not find the wahoo kickr via bluetotth I can only search it using ant + as a powermeter. So I can use trainerroad using ant + but I can not connect to the kicker via bluetooth. Could you please help me out?
I´m thinking about getting an air pad air to use it with the kickr, but it is not compatible with trainerroad, so the question is wich is the idela platform the use bot the trainer road and the kickr???
Thanks a lot for your help
Windows XP does not support Bluetooth Low Energy.
Hi Eduardo,
Your Windows computer may not have Bluetooth 4.0 (BT Smart). For TrainerRoad I would recommend using the ANT+ key on your Windows machine regardless. As long as you have the latest KICKR firmware, you will have all the same functionality as you would with a Bluetooth 4.0 connection. I’m not certain if the guys at TR have integrated BT4.0 on Windows at this point. Perhaps someone could chime in who knows this?
Best regards,
Brad
Best regards,
Brad
I don’t use a Windows machine so I can’t confirm that it works but it looks like the latest TrainerRoad beta release is attempting to add Bluetooth on Windows presumably would still require the NetGear BT4 USB stick. link to facebook.com
Thanks a lot!! I have use the KICKR via ANT + with trainer road without any trouble. Thanks a lot for your help….
I´ll anyway get a newer pc soon
Can someone from Wahoo confirm current availability and lead times for shipping in Australia please?
We have stock in our Sydney warehouse ready to ship.
Great news, thanks.
Great news, thanks Murray.
Hoping someone can clarify this for me: I’m using TrainerRoad with The Sufferfest – Cycling Training Videos loaded up, in conjunction with a Wahoo KICKR. It almost works like I was hoping. I’ve just completed the Angels workout, and was disappointed to find that resistance of the KICKR was not automatically adjusted…ever. Is that normal? What am I missing?
Hi Noah,
Not normal. A few things to check,
1. Is that Wahoo Kicker paired in the TrainerRoad config.
2. Can you do a spin down?
3. When you started the video with TR, check the bottom left to make sure it says ERG mode and not Level
Thanks, Murray. Yes, paired AOK. I was able to do two FTP tests with the TR software no problem. Spindown was AOK as well. Mode? That very well could be the culprit. I started in ERG mode, but switched to resistance and standard at some point. Is ERG a requirement for the entire workout?
For something like a Sufferfest video you would normally leave it in ERG mode all the time. The resistance will only change automatically when in ERG mode. If you do switch it to Level mode of a effort, you just need to make sure you switch it back to ERG mode. You would also switch it to level mode if you are doing a 5/10/30min test, TR does this automatically for any of the test workouts.
I just received my Wahoo Kickr, placed my Trek Speed Concept 9.9 with DI2 onto the trainer, and the Kickr is making an excessive chain/cassette noise on 80% of the cogs.
FYI, my bike is fully tuned up and not making any noise with the wheel. Shouldn’t the shifting and 11×25 cassette alignment (on my Trek wheel) be identical to the Kickr cassette?
The skewer is tight and the bike is fully on the drop downs. I’ve put it on and off several times. The Kickr fit is proper and snug. Help
I experienced that the cassette on the KICKR is just out of line with my cassette on my road wheel. A few turns on the plastic adjustment knob on the back of your derailer should fix the problem. Don’t turn the screws on your derailer because that adjust how far the derailer goes to either side! About 2-3 clicks did it for me. (can’t remember how much)
Matthijs,
Many thanks for your feedback and advice. I’m not sure my DI2 derailer system on the Trek Speed Concept 9.9 has a “plastic adjustment knob.” As you said, I definitely don’t want to turn the screws because my road wheel is perfectly in tune with my bike. Do you have the DI2 derailer system? It’s a bit different to make adjustments.
Ah ok, I didn’t notice the DI2 in your post. Then this solution doesn’t work. but adjustment is needed so I found this video. Maybe it helps, although it doesn’t help you with not wanting to make adjustments.
link to youtube.com
I don’t know why the setting on the KICKR is different. Maybe when placing the same cassette as it has on your bike will solve the problem, but I am not sure. I know that the shimano Ultegra cassette has an additional ring between the hub and the largest cog. If they let it out on the KICKR (because you don’t have to bother hitting spokes with your derailer), the difference may appear. Otherwise I don’t know what is causing the difference.
Duncan,
Check out the park tool di2 installation instructions at the link below and do a search for ‘Figure 30’. This will instruct you on how to make micro-adjustments to align your rear derailleur with the sprockets on the Kickr (equivalent of using a barrel adjuster). It’s pretty quick and easy, but it would still be nice if I didn’t have to do it every time I switched from the road to the Kickr. The best way to fix this would be some sort of micro-spacer to go behind the cassette (kind of like the .25mm spacers you can get for a headset), however, no such spacer seems to exist.
link to parktool.com
Corey,
Thanks so much for your research, and for the link to parktool figure 30. It was very helpful. Yes, micro spacers would be great! The other alternative is to simply buy an 11 cog Shimano cassette and take of the 10 speed cassette from Kickr. Candidly, Kickr should ask its customers upon checking out what type of cassette they want/prefer.
Happy New Year!
Duncan,
If you are running a 11-Spd system you will want to swap the cassette, the 10-spd cassette that comes with the KICKR will not be compatible with your gearing or chain.
You can buy any 11-spd SRAM or Shimano cassette and it will be compatible with the KICKR, here is some more information on replacing the cassette.
link to support.wahoofitness.com
Hi Ray, Thanks for the great review. I’m ordering one of these as soon as I can convince my wife that it will be able to be stored in the space I have earmarked for it. With this in mind any idea what the folded dimensions are?
Cheers
Rob
I just got the kickr and set it up. but after a few pedalstrokes the resistance jumps up to infinite. I don’t have any Cadence connected (I want to use my SRM Crank and PC7 which has it’s own Cadence).
Is it possible, that the kickr doesn’t work without cadence feedback?
Guido,
It sounds as if you may need to perform a spindown calibration on your KICKR.
Please follow this link for instructions on performing a spindown calibration:
How to Perform a Spindown
If you have any further questions, please contact our Wahoo Support Team.
Just picked up a Kickr. Debating between Cyclops and Kinomap virtual training software. Does anyone have experience with these and can give a recommendation? Does Kinomap support ERG mode with power when riding a course or is it just speed/cadence based?
I’ve placed some thoughts on the different trainer apps in my 2013 roundup, here: link to dcrainmaker.com
At some point I’ll go a bit deeper in a roundup, but time is my limiting factor right now. :-/
Hi Ray and all the guys, great rewiew. I read all and i have some question to be sure i’ve understand. I have a tacx fortius and i don’t use it anymore because of the spin of the tyre , simply impossible when you push or train hard. I need to find a trainer that
1) can give a great effort, not like a spin bike but similar ( how about the kickr in the manual mode with the whaoo app? You can really stop the wheel?) to do interval training and train the force.
2) can simulate a track , imported by a Garmin or created, with a maximum of real effort on the climbing , also if you run a 15% climb or like that ( i read your rewiew of the cycle ops virtual trainer and i think it’s quinte good, segments maybe not so good again) for the day when you stay home.
Before reading your rewiew i ve been thinking about a real power elite that could simulate , if it is true, a 20% of slope, but i ‘mi scared about the tyre, maybe you know something about the spin in that trainer. Anyway it’s too similar at the fortius, closed software, no feeling with a rear tyre. Now i think i Will buy a kickr if you or Whaoo Brad or Murray can confirme that kickr can do now or in few month what i’m searching.
If i buy the kickr at the apple store online in italy , i can buy other whaoo sensors at amazon to support the site?
Thanks
Hi,
I’m using a SRM Powermeter and would therefore like to know, if the SRM headunit (PC7) is able to use the speed output of the kickr and moreover the other way around, if the kickr is able to use the SRM cadence signal.
I don’t want to install another cadence sensor, so if the SRM signal is not useable, will the kickr work anyway?
Concerning the training, how can you change the power in the erg-mode? Is it possible with sweaty fingers on the iPad or can you even use Siri? Is it possible to do 45s intervals with 500W and in between 5min intervals with 150W or will the change take too long and will just set me up during the training session?
And my last question: In which mode can I perform a max sprint training which would include 10s all out sprints, as I could do it outside on the road?
Thank you very much in advance for your help and for providing this really cool side!
Regards
Jens
The PC7, being ANT+, will be able to connect to the KICKR as a power meter, even while you use it as a BTLE sensor with an app.
For your other questions, I think you should look at our app: link to imobileintervals.com
iMobileIntervals has the following features SRM users (and Quarq and Stages users) will like:
* iMobileIntervals is the only app that supports connecting to BOTH the KICKR and a power meter, which is what you need in order to use the cadence from the SRM.
* You can set the app to use the power coming from the powermeter for display and recording.
* You can set a global offset watts value for the KICKR, allowing you to align your powermeter with the KICKR. i.e. you may find that the SRM consistently reads 10 watts more than the KICKR. Consequently your ERG workouts, if they are adjusted correctly for your SRM, are being run 10 watts TOO HARD. You can adjust up the KiCKR by 10 watts and not touch your workout. This also aligns the data you receive from the KICKR with your SRM, so that you have consistency across indoor and outdoor workouts.
To help with your non-SRM-specific needs, iMobileIntervals lets you configure complicated ERG workouts based on Coggan zone, watts or % FTP and have the app change the intervals for you, with voice prompting if you like. This is similar to how Computrainer has always worked, and its vastly superior to manually changing your erg watts (though the app allows you to do that as well).
You can also do mixed ERG and fixed resistance intervals (e.g. 10 sec with the intensity zone set to “Max”, which uses a predefined fixed resistance), or open-ended intervals that terminate with +- N heart rate or a lap button press.
The iMobileInterval.com website also has an ERG/MRC file importer that will take Computrainer workouts and easily convert them to native iMobileIntervals workouts.
Thanks iMobileIntervals for your help and quick answer!
That really sounds interesting. Is there also the possibility, that the SRM takes over actively the control of the KICKR? In a way that it will directly use the Poweroutput of the SRM to calibrate the brake of the KICKR to it?
Thanks again and regards
Jens
No, the ERG resistance adjustment is internal to the WahooFitness API; The app tells the KICKR via the API “I want to stick to 200 watts”, then the API handles that, and independently its also reporting back the power just like a regular power meter. Its not our app saying, “Oh, you are making too few watts, I’m going to increase resistance.” That’s how it would have to be for the app to use the SRM power to make the adjustment.
dear all
first of all, I am very happy with my wahoo kicker and in the past 3 months since I own it, Id did not have any issues with it. However, after my training today I noticed that one of the small screws on the rotor was almost falling out. The rest of the screws were quite loose. some questions to this:
– could you tell me how to fix this? can i fix them myself and if yes, with which NM to use?
– did this issue influence the wattage measurements?
thanks in advance for your help. in following link you see the issue:
link to s24.postimg.org
thanks
dreale
With the Wahoo Kickr not available on Amazon or through Clever Training, where is the best place to pick one up? Anywhere offer discounts we can use or that support the site?
Unfortunately, no other places to support the site and pickup a KICKR. Thanks for thinking of me though!
I’m moving forward this week in purchasing the Kickr. I’ve thought this over for the past 3 months, and weighed the pro’s and con’s thoroughly. What i need now is the “extra’s” to make this thing work.
If someone can comment on what i need, based what i have that would be great.
1. I have an Ipad2 – I don’t want to spend 400-500 on a new Ipad3. If I read DC Rainmakers review correctly, all i need is an ANT adapter for the ipad2 and i’ll be able to have full capabilities. Is that correct?
2. I have a garmin 310XT, do i need this or a new garmin head since i can use one of the several apps?
3. I have a garmin speed cadence sensor attached to my bike. Since the kicker replaces the back wheel, does/will the garmin cadence sensor still track cadence and speed on the kickr? If so how. Is there a way of calculating speed in MPH with this garmin cadence speed through the kickr? What device would i need in order to do this?
Hi Greg,
1. You just need the “Wahoo ANT+ Key” and you will have full control with the iPad2. You will not have firmware update function so you might need to have a friend with a new iOS device to keep up to date on firmware.
2. You can use the Garmin 310XT to view the power/speed from the KICKR. You cannot control the KICKR from a Garmin.
3. You can setup your Garmin and iPad only to use the Cadence from the Speed/Cadence sensor and your Speed/Power will come from the KICKR.
I’ve just bought the KICKR, and have looked at all these fee for subscription services and apps…but I’ve not found one that simply lets you upload your already painstakingly paired video/gps files. I have many HD videos already linked up to the gpx data from my garmin (using dashware). Is there an app or software that will just let me control the KICKR with those, because that would be awesome and less cumbersome than the alternatives.
I dont mind subscribing to a service to get videos of places I havent been and such, I just dont want to have to reinvent the wheel for the ones I have, especially considering my upcoming training rides I’ve mapped/video’d, edited, and mixed already.
Try Ipad Cycleops VirtualTraining app. I havent used it personally since i’m waiting for my kickr, but others have said this is one of the best.
Hi again,
my KICKR arrived today and at the moment I’m struggling to get it paired with my SRM PC 7. I just need to get out an ANT+ speed signal out of it to be able to calibrate my SRM powermeter.
But the KICKR does not seem to send a speed signal. Also my Suunto Ambit 1 does not find anything.
What am I doing wrong?Could someone please help me?
Thanks in advance
Jens
The KICKR broadcasts as an ANT+ power meter, not an ANT+ speed sensor. Within the ANT+ power meter stream, it broadcasts speed. It doesn’t broadcast speed by itself.
Then I understood the comment #860 wrongly.
So in this case I have to use an additional sensor to attach it for example near the rim wheel am glue a magnet to the wheel?
Jens
I wouldn’t. Wahoo has said that they’ll be doing a firmware update at some point to broadcast speed separately.
Thanks for your really quick answers!
Now, could someone of Wahoo make a guess when the software change is going to be performed?
It would really be a great feature, if the Kickr would broadcast a ANT+ Speed signal.
Thanks in advance for implementing it!
Jens
Hi, does anybody know when the wahoo android app will be avalaible???
You can download the beta here: link to support.wahoofitness.com
Hi guys, I´ve tried to install the android beta on my phone but it won´t work….
As noted at the bottom of that page, if you’re having bugs or issues, you’ll want to post on their beta bugs forum: link to support.wahoofitness.com
android 4.1.2 that is the reason it does not work, is there anyway to update my android to higher version
it is a lg mobile phone
I got a Kickr for X-mas and was so excited to get it up set up after being gone on vacation. Ok so here I am…. Kickr and free cadence sensor set up flawless with wahoo app….. I do question the power a lil…. when I’m about 70 plus RPM and boost the wattage, just to see what the wattage does I purposely backed off to see if the wattage drops but it actually stay close to the same wattage with much less effort for sustained time.
I cannot for the life of me get Wahoo to respond with any customer support…I even have a case file #. Is anyone else having this issue both with Kickr wattage discrepancy and lack of response from Wahoo? Ive even threatened so send it back and still no response. Its unfortunate because I believe it just needs some fine tuning but don’t know how to do that. Ive already done a couple of spin down test with the utilities app.
Also one last thing… I purchased Wahoo Segments app. I can beat anyones KOM anywhere around the world… I didn’t think I was that good. Can someone honestly tell me that app is even the slightest accurate. Also another question I had for wahoo with no response….
Anyway Im not trying to complain…. I’m just looking for help.
Thanks,
Brian
Hey Brian,
Please tell me your support ticket number and I will look into this matter.
Thank you,
Kyle
Ray, thanks a lot for all of your efforts with the blog. You help to make the sport much more accessible for all of us newcomers!
I have decided to go ahead and get the KICKR.
I currently do not have an iDevice, however. From reading the blog, I know that all of the information from my Garmin devices (HR Strap, Speed/cadence sensor, …) will be combined with the speed/power information from the KICKR and sent to my my Garmin Edge. I know also that I can control the KICKR with my pc with ANT+ USB and now through beta version of the Wahoo Android app (since I have an Android phone). Since it’s now been about 10 months since the initial piece, some of the information is understandably dated, because there has been so much change over that time period. I’m just wondering, as it stands today, do I miss out on any features of the unit or 3rd party apps if I do not have an iPad.
Thanks.
Sean
Once you update the unit once via someone’s iDevice, then you’ll be good to go for 3rd party apps and functionality.
Of course, there will certainly be 3rd party apps only offered on iDevices (i.e. Kinomap or Bulltrainer), but there’s plenty that are on PC today.
Good day Sean, No – you don’t miss anything as far as I am concerned. I do have an iPad but am never using it with the KICKR. Personally I prefer TrainerRoad for OSX (for training/workouts based on power) and VeloReality (Win7) for HiRes Virtual Reality training – awesome videos from alpe d’Huez, Mont Ventoux, Majorca and more. Also VirtualTraining (Win7) is definitely worth to take a look at. Cheers. Dick
Thank you, this was attached to one response that I did receive on friday.
Your request (#78101) has been updated. Reply to this email or click the link below:
link to support.wahoofitness.com
Wahoo called me back to help answer the questions I needed answered in reguards to my KICKR trainer… Everything is good and look forward to trying some other software like Trainer rode etc.
Thank you,
Brian
BEWARE OF WAHOO
I called Wahoo twice after problems with my kickr, never a call back! How’s that for a $1000+ product? Then I noticed that there’s a Wahoo rep on this site and DC is active in selling this product…OH, and he’s on their web site, too…
Then I started looking up REAL reviews and had to read things like this (slowtwitch triathon forum):
My experience. I’m a CT Lab & 2 SRM owner as well as a recent (last 3 weeks) Kickr owner.
1st Kickr would increase the resistance to the point that I could not pedal and power numbers that I did get to compare were off. I think the increasing resistance was due to the kickr reporting falling wattage (I could see the wattage dropping in the software as the resistance kept going up) so the software kept increasing the resistance. Funny thing is I could almost always make this happen by bumping the wattage just over 150 watts. So they sent me a new one. 🙂
2nd Kickr DOA. Didn’t report speed or power. So they sent me a new one. 🙂
3rd Kickr. Seems to work much better than the first two. Haven’t had enough time to really test everything but I have been testing the accuracy and precision. What I’m finding is not good IMHO. My SRM on my CT Lab normally reads about 8 watts higher than the CT setting and that’s simply due to drive train losses. Nothing unusual there. In fact they seem to be in very good agreement. In a nutshell I’ve seen up to 28 watts less power from my Kickr than what it was set for. So at 160 watts the Kickr was actually only producing 132 watts.
I want to make it clear that I’m not finished testing, I’ve only performed very limited testing and there is always the possibility that my SRM even though it tracks very well with my CT Lab may be off. I will be attempting to verify the accuracy and precision of my SRM over the next week or so.
In addition to seeing the Kickr under produce (I’ve never seen it over produce) power it also appears to get worse the faster you are going. If speed is low the difference is less. As speed increases the difference get worse. I personally don’t like the feel of the Kickr when I’m in my big chain ring and lowest gear. Speed is typically around 13-14mph. Just feels strange or a little choppy. I don’t feel that at faster speeds. Even on my CT I typically try to ride at 18-20 mph. Should be noted that I very rarely use anything but ERG mode so speed and power should not be related.
DCRainmaker posted his power data and everything looked pretty good. Not sure why mine doesn’t. ”
Then I tried to contact dealers in my area (the ones according to Wahoo’s list), not a single one was carrying the kickr)…
Oh, I scanned their QR code in, too, in hopes to get to a nice online manual (would be appropriate for such a product, wouldn’t it?). It sends you to their public Wahoo kickr sales page. Their kickr support page is a JOKE.
WTF WAHOO?????????????
So, if you are interested in headaches, and would like to lose some money, time and nerves, then I highly recommend this product! Otherwise I would stay far far away from it, faaaaaaaaar away from it and the crooks who produce this POS!
Pardon my french…
I don’t have any affiliation with Wahoo. Like all products I review here, I go out and get them through normal retail channels afterward I review and send back said product. If they quote a portion of whatever I write here, that’s fine – many companies do. I don’t care one way or another, and certainly don’t get paid for it.
As for Wahoo folks reading and responding to comments here, they do that here and other places where users congregate. Seems like a good thing that Wahoo hangs out on various forums, doesn’t it? Or am I missing some evil conspiracy theory?
Actually, hold on. I just realized you copied and pasted nearly an entire post from a Slowtwitch post of someone else’s from back 7 months ago into the above.
Then, you added the little snippet at the beginning going all conspiracy theory, as well as a little snippet at the end because you were upset that when you scanned the QR code on the box it went to the Wahoo Sales site instead of the PDF manual.
And then you were upset because your local bike shops made a decision (for whatever reason) to not stock the KICKR.
Sorry, I just had to make sure I had that all clear in my head.
In any case, I’m sure if you were to drop your Wahoo ticket # here, they’d probably track down why you haven’t had a call back. Though, I could see how even that that might upset you since you were upset Wahoo was trying to be proactive in other forums and help folks out.
Good luck!
Markus is indeed posting double posts at other forums months ago. I don’t recognize any of his problems… I* guess he’s a troll.
Hi Markus,
First, sorry you seem to be having issue. We don’t have 24h/7 phone support, so the best way is to submit a support ticket and then try and ring. If its urgent you can post your problem here and someone might be able to help out. I suggest only posting your own problems and not copy/pasting from other peoples posts, it makes it very hard to work out what your problem is. I’m still not actually sure what is wrong.
You will notice the main people that post here and slowtwitch are Myself and Chip, we are not customer service or marketing, just 2 engineers that enjoy helping people out when we have some spare time. I am sure most people enjoy the interaction they have with us, you don’t normally get a chance to interact with the inventors and engineers of products. I’m sorry that you seem offended by this.
Second, Wahoo Fitness does not have any affiliation with Ray. Ray is one of very few reviewers that actually reviews products and if you look at his site he some some of the most detailed and honest reviews in the world. Alot of blog sites just re-write media releases. While we do have a very good relationship with Ray its because we make awesome products that he loves, although no matter how friendly we are, if Ray didn’t like something we did, he would tell the world, read some of his reviews, he isn’t scared to tell it how it is.
I’m not really sure what your beef is with our support site, that link does does you to a getting started page and we also have lots of other KICKR topics in our Knowledge Base, link to support.wahoofitness.com
So Markus, please submit a support ticket and post you problem and someone might be able to help, accusing and insulting everyone that is trying to help isn’t going to get you very far.
Regards,
Murray
The whole post is written by me except one snipplet from another forum. There are many more, but obviously I cannot post them all here.
The fact is that I bought this POS for more than $1000, it’s faulty and I have received ZERO support! I posted this snipplet,too , because I have the exact same problem (besides some others with this product)
Btw, this is where the QR code leads to:link to wahoofitness.com
Now you show me where the PDF manual is
If you are independent the why are you so defensive? And btw, the fact that Wahoo lists stores (in my case Boulder/Denver area) that don’t even stock the product shows that they don’t even maintain their web site. Just look at the main order button “preorder”…Really?
I wasted my time calling these stores because I thought they might help me…
As a general rule, I’m going to defend against things that are incorrect. In this case, you started off implying some sort of relationship with Wahoo – which I don’t.
As for local stores not stocking products, there’s a difference between having in stock, and being a distributor. Most local bike shops can’t afford to stock everything (since they pay upfront), and thus, stock on demand.
Again, I’d suggest if you have an issue to file a support ticket. I’d agree calling and getting an answer should have been simple enough, but having a support ticket is trackable. If you open up a support case with them, and don’t see a reasonable response – then, feel free to come back here and post your case # here and I’m sure someone will follow-up.
btw, this was my first post, I never posted in any other forum, Matthijs
Problem: KICKR connects but no speed or watt and therefore no resistance.
After 14 weeks this happened to me in the middle of an interval. Tried everything but nothing worked. After reading all the above comments it looked like the optical speed sensor. Wahoo support got back to me in 18 hrs and said to try and push the speed sensor cap down see link
So I took a look at the non drive side and noticed a black white disc that had a circle of dust on it. I cleaned the dust off, did a spin down and no more problem.
For me the ability to set watts in erg mode and use any cadence make this the best tool out there for doing intervals. You can do power intervals at high resistance and low cadence or tempo intervals at lower watts and higher cadence. I do recovery and spin ups (no resistance, high as possible cadence) on e-motion rollers.
Bought the KICKR on your recommendation Ray. Thanks!
Group – if you are looking for Virtual Reality cycling indoors, have a look at link to veloreality.com
The videos are HD and of great quality, they have about 40 now, among them Alpe d’Huez, Mont Ventoux, Stelvio. I have done a couple of them now, and its pretty cool, no – its awesome.
The software is Win7 and is free – you pay per movie (10 Euro)
Apologies for being enthusiastic – just sharing my experience. Tomorrow the Stelvio 🙂
Thanks Simon Villeneuve for the hint. Cheers
Wahoo, I posted a slightly combative comment back in September(?) regarding the quality of the Kickr. I asked that Wahoo note the solutions to posted questions so that potential buyers could see how the product is progressing with those issues. I wanted to buy the Kickr but was concerned about some of the comments on this site. Wahoo stated that this is not really the place to address those solutions and I guess I agree since there are just to many variables as to why a product may have issues.
Needing a trainer I finally bought the KICKR in late November and figured I should post a comment as a follow up to my September post. So far I love it. I use it with both Trainerroad and my Iphone. For me it worked fine out of the box, which was my main concern, and has every day since. I plan to start using videos and really looking forward to them for the long New England Winter. As most have said the Erg mod is what I use the majority of the time and compared to standard trainer it is worth every single penny I paid for it. I am a numbers guy and the feedback on each workout forces me to work harder and harder.
Hi.
Can anybody explain me the spindown calibration funktion.
Does the calibration follow the Kickr or the tablet/phone?
Said another Way. Can I do the spindown using my phone, and Then use kinomap on my ipad?
Kind regards and sorry for my pour english.
Kenni
Hi.
Can anybody explain me the spindown calibration funktion.
Does the calibration follow the Kickr or the tablet/phone?
Said another Way. Can I do the spindown using my phone, and Then use kinomap on my ipad?
Kind regards and sorry for my pour english.
Kenni
Hi,
Yes the calibration is stored in the KICKR. You only need to do a calibration if you move the KICKR or every 3-4 weeks
Hey Murray.
Thanks for the Quick answer and allso Thanks for a great produkt. I love the Kickr.
And Ray: Thanks for a great site. I visit it every Day.