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This product has been discontinued by the manufacturer. It's been replaced by the Wahoo KICKR V5/2020, you may want to check out that review instead.
The Wahoo KICKR is probably the most anticipated trainer to hit the market in quite a while, if not one of the most anticipated sports technology products for endurance athletes to hit the market. But, how does it live up to the promises and fanfare? Well, I’ve spent the last two months using it week in and week out. Every aspect of this trainer I’ve poked at or dove into. Heck, I even took parts of it apart (with wire cutters!).
In doing so, I’ve got a pretty good grasp on how the unit works, as well as all the details inside and out. Because I want to be transparent about my reviews, once my evaluation period with the Wahoo KICKR has elapsed, I send it back to them in the Atlanta. Simple as that. Sorta like hiking in wilderness trails – leave only footprints.
Lastly, at the end of the day keep in mind I’m just like any other regular triathlete out there. I write these reviews because I’m inherently a curious person with a technology background (my day job), and thus I try and be as complete as I can. But, if I’ve missed something or if you spot something that doesn’t quite jive – just let me know and I’ll be happy to get it all sorted out. Also, because the technology world constantly changes, I try and go back and update these reviews as new features and functionality are added – or if bugs are fixed.
Unboxing:
First, let’s get this thing unboxed. Twice.
Here’s the outer shipping box that the KICKR comes in. If you buy your KICKR via the interwebs, it’ll likely come in this box.
Inside the heavy-duty cardboard box, you’ll find the KICKR’s inner box.
Thus, if you buy your KICKR at a local bike shop, you’ll likely find it looking more like this:
From there you’ll crack open the outer shell and find the protective cardboard inside. Mine held up pretty well given the travelling it did. It first flew from Taipei to Las Vegas via UPS. Then, I dragged it across the Vegas CES show floor to my hotel (no easy feat for those familiar with Vegas). After that, I took it from Vegas to Houston to Paris via commercial airliner (checked luggage). And then finally, I dragged it again through the subways of Paris to my apartment. I’d imagine it should hold up pretty well in a mini-van ride home from the bike shop.
Below the cardboard is the KICKR, fully packaged up in plastic.
After removing the KICKR, you’ll find another small box and a manual.
Inside the small box is the power block. It’s 100-240v, with a replaceable US cable on it. As I’ll discuss later, the power block itself works just fine in Europe.
Then we’ve got the quick start guide. Though, I highly doubt you’ll need it after this post.
Below is a plastic clip for disc brakes on mountain bikes, to keep them from potentially becoming engaged while riding the trainer.
Thus, with all the pieces taken out of the box, here’s what you’ve got. The trainer, the power cord, a small manual and warranty statement, and then the little plastic doohickey.
All good?
Good.
Let’s take a quick tour of the unit before we dive into it.
First up to note is that you’ll unfold the legs for riding, allowing you to store it in smaller spaces. There’s a handle on the back to pick it up – it says ‘Crank it up’ on it.
The legs that fold out have these all-metal clips on them. They feel strong and I don’t suspect they’ll break.
As I’ll discuss in more detail in the next section, the trainer includes a cassette, which is pre-mounted onto the flywheel. It also includes the training skewer.
Down below, you’ll see a small round knob, along with a blue metal lever. This allows you to control the height of the KICKR. This is of use for different tire sizes, so the rider isn’t so high off the ground (perfect for The Girl with her 650 wheels).
Finally, note on the backside of the unit, the large flywheel isn’t ‘open’ like some trainers, rather closed. The entire flywheel does rotate though, including where you see those silver arrows (it rotates in that direction).
With the high level overview complete, lets start getting detailed.
Weight/Size Comparisons:
When it comes to size, the unit is definitely the heftiest of the bunch…by far. As in, put that kid on a diet and take away the marshmallows! Yes folks, that’s pounds below:
46 pounds in total (about 21kg)!
To put that in perspective, the CompuTrainer weighed in at 22 pounds, and the Tacx Genius at 25 pounds, and the LeMond Revolution at 34 pounds.
Now, I don’t think the weight is really a bad thing. Yes, beastly, but not bad. It’s stable, and that’s one of my most important trainer aspects. I HATE wobbly trainers. The weight likely comes from the components. The thing is made out of steel for all major components. Which means that it will hopefully last a long time. Where it does pose a slight problem is for those folks that may take trainers with them while travelling. Most airlines have a 50-pound weight limit for checked luggage (without additional fees), and this just sorta barely slides in under that.
When people talk about the CompuTrainer, there’s one thing they always say: “It’s build like a rock”, which is immediately followed by “I’ve had mine for 10 years, and it still keeps on ticking”. I think from a materials standpoint, the KICKR is in the same ballpark. Of course, time will be the true test.
From an electronics standpoint, having Bluetooth 4.0 and ANT+ in there should make it relatively future proof for a while. You can still connect modern smart-phones with legacy Bluetooth headsets from years ago, and thus I don’t see backwards compatibility being an issue anytime in the next 6-10 years.
Lastly…one final thing to touch on.
LeMond Revolution Pro this is not. It’s funny, a lot of folks have made observations that the Wahoo KICKR is simply a rip-off of the LeMond Revolution Pro Trainer. To help understand why that isn’t the case, let’s run through the main differences.
A) The LeMond trainer is wind-based, thus wind provides resistance. The Wahoo KICKR is electronic. No wind is used, nor emitted.
B) The LeMond trainer does not have resistance control. The Wahoo KICKR does. In other words, you can’t control the LeMond, you can control the KICKR.
C) The LeMond trainer uses private-ANT to communicate between itself and the PowerPilot head unit. Thus no connecting your ANT+ head unit (i.e. Garmin Edge 500) to the LeMond. The KICKR uses open-ANT+, and provides speed and power (and thus distance).
D) The LeMond does not have Bluetooth Smart (or any Bluetooth in it). The Wahoo KICKR does.
E) The LeMond trainer has no API or development aspects to it for 3rd parties. The Wahoo KICKR does.
F) The LeMond trainer does not have an adjustable height. The Wahoo KICKR does. Same goes for adjustable legs.
The point here isn’t to just be a bulleted list of things the LeMond trainer doesn’t do. Instead, juts to be clear on differences. And certainly, there are things the Wahoo KICKR doesn’t do. For example:
A) The Wahoo KICKR is relatively normal from a loudness standpoint. The LeMond trainer is 100db. Not so quiet.
B) The Wahoo KICKR weighs 46 pounds and eat kittens for breakfast. The LeMond trainer weighs a fraction of that.
C) The Wahoo KICKR has a sorta-mostly-realistic road feel. The LeMond Revolution has a very realistic road feel.
As you can see, the KICKR is no more compatible to the LeMond Revolution Pro than a mountain bike is comparable to a road bike. Yes, they both vaguely look the same from a distance, but that’s about where it ends. If you wanted to add up the things that are similar, it’d look roughly like this:
A) Both trainers use a cassette to attach your bike to them.
B) Both trainers have three legs
C) Both trainers have a big round thing on them.
D) Uhh..both trainers attach bikes to them? Umm, end of list.
The LeMond Revolution was actually based on a Russian Physicist design that Greg LeMond worked with in the 1980’s. He adapted it as part of the Revolution Pro. Again, both trainers have their markets, but it’s important that if you’re comparing the two on looks alone, then you’re likely missing the forest from the trees.
Hardware Setup:
During the next few sections I’m going to walk through using the trainer on a day to day basis, and then after that I’ll dive into some of the 3rd party apps.
Attaching your bicycle to the trainer:
First up, is getting the unit attached to your bicycle. To do so, you’ll be removing your rear wheel. It has no action in this game. Instead, the KICKR comes with a rear cassette that replaces the cassette on your rear wheel. This has both benefits and annoyances. From a benefits side you remove issues around rolling resistance of the wheel itself, as well as wear and tear on the wheel. Trainers are notorious for chewing up wheels (quite literally, leaving fine black dust everywhere). The downside though is that you have to take off your rear wheel and put it back on. Some bikes are easy, and others are a bit of a pain in the butt (such as my P3C). If it were me, I’d probably have preferred not removing my wheel – but that’s just a personal preference.
Once you’ve got your wheel removed, you’re going to go ahead and place it on the skewer that’s provided with the KICKR. I find it easiest to remove the skewer entirely and then thread the skewer in once your bike is on the cassette.
After that’s complete, ensure you tighten up the skewer.
Done, you’re ready to ride.
Now, if you have a smaller bike (or one with a different wheel size), you can also adjust the height of the trainer down along the bottom:
For example, when The Girl rides her bikes, I’ll sometimes remember to adjust it so that it’s lower to the ground for her.
If you haven’t yet plugged the trainer in, be sure to do that. The cable that comes with it plugs into a standard American outlet. But, it’s 100-240v, which means it works anywhere in the world with a simple $1-2 adapter. That’s how I use it over here in France.
In fact, if you want to get all fancy, you can simply change out the actual cable from the power block to the wall. Again, a couple dollars.
Ok, and the power cable plugs into the trainer at the bottom, under it.
With that, let’s start using it.
Software Setup:
Wahoo Fitness provides the Wahoo Fitness App on the iPhone/iPad platform, which is their fitness application that connects to the trainer and records data. This is the same application that also works outdoors while cycling or running. And, the same application that connects to both ANT+ devices (with the ANT+ adapter), as well as Bluetooth Smart devices (for compatible devices). The applications records your workout, as well as exports the data to any number of formats (i.e. CSV/TCX/etc…) and services (Training Peaks, Nike+, Garmin Connect, Strava, etc…).
After downloading the free app, you’ll be brought here:
Next up is pairing to your KICKR trainer. To do this, we’ll dive into the settings. It’s here we can pair any number of devices – from the KICKR to heart rate straps, to speed and cadence sensors. Note that I created a separate ‘profile’ for the trainer. I do this so that I can disable the GPS on it, and then not mess up my running or outdoor cycling settings with GPS on.
At any rate, within settings we’ll have a list of sensors we can pair with:
We’ll click to add a sensor, and then add a power meter sensor:
Once we do this, it’ll start searching for the Bluetooth Smart power meter device profile. In the event you happen to have a Stages Power Meter nearby, note that it would pick it up as well – so just be aware of which one you pair to.
Once that’s done (and it’ll only take a second), you’ll want to pair any other sensors you have. I recommend picking up the Wahoo Blue SC, since at this time the KICKR doesn’t provide cadence information. The Blue SC does, and will then keep everything Bluetooth Smart.
And finally, pair up a heart rate monitor if you have one:
Next is a REALLY important item, especially if you have the Blue SC. You’ll want to change the speed data to pull the speed data back to the KICKR. Otherwise it’ll pull from the BlueSC, which won’t have any speed data since you won’t have a magnet flying past the magnet since your wheel is off the bike.
And, while you’re at it, ensure that the cadence is coming from the combo sensor, and not from the KICKR.
Finally, you’ll want to scroll down in all the data pages that are offered and ensure the KICKR Training Page is enabled:
There are numerous training pages available to you, below is a quick gallery of them. My only complaint though is that at the end of the day I’d really much rather just customize these myself – like on most devices. Pick and choose them. Sorta like how I can do on the RFLKT. Instead, they are pre-canned and I have to live with whatever I was given, and on the pages they were set. Note when it says ‘Tap to Toggle mode’, it means that you can tap the page to then alternate through variations of that data from Current data (instant), to previous and current laps and averages.
Ok, with all the data pages out of the way, let’s get into controlling the KICKR.
Resistance Control:
The KICKR has four user accessible control modes. Each one of these modes controls the trainer in slightly different ways. All of these modes are found when you enabled the KICKR control page, and are just sub-sections of that page.
Level Mode:
In this mode, the KICKR has a simplified resistance level bands. From 0 to 9. These are somewhat abstract, and simply levels that Wahoo has effectively christened. Just like your stationary bike at the gym has random levels on it, these are sorta random too. But, if you just want an easy option for remembering what setting you had it on last – this is it. I prefer the other options.
Resistance Mode:
This mode simply controls the resistance of the brank unit – on a scale from 0 to 100%, with 100% being ‘full stop’. If you’re thinking of incline, that’s later on in a different mode.
Erg Mode:
Erg mode is without question my favorite, and where I spend the vast majority of my time. It’s simple, and potentially brutal. In this mode you simply specify an exact wattage, and the unit holds it. No messing around here. Input wattage, trainer responds, you hurt. Rinse, repeat. It’s how I do most of my workouts – based on set wattages. You utilize the +/- buttons to increase the digits that make-up the watts. In general, I find the KICKR will adjust it within 1-2 seconds. Enough that it doesn’t stop-you dead if you go from 100w to 400w.
As you’re riding, the unit will show you the target power (what it’s putting out) above, and then the actual recorded power below.
Sim Mode:
Last is ‘Sim Mode’ – short for simulation. In this mode, it allows you to simulate different settings based on not only slope and wind speed, but also rolling resistance. First though, you’d define a slope (i.e. hill), and then you’d define the wind speed (i.e. pain).
Then, you click on the ‘Bike Type’ setting and you can define the exact Coefficient of Rolling Resistance and Drag Coefficient of your setup (primarily your wheels).
I haven’t played with this particular setting too much – but the potential is pretty impressive. There’s plenty of apps and data sources out there today that allows you to pull in and specify this information. Which would primarily serve to better simulate the impact of your tires (and body drag) – given that the KICKR doesn’t otherwise include any of those forces in its equations.
General Wahoo Fitness App Items:
After you’re done riding, you’ll want to save your workout. Note that you can press pause at any time to stop recording. Also note that incoming calls/texts do not impact the KICKR from recording, it’ll continue to do so in the background. At the end of the workout after you’ve pressed stop, you’ll get this screen:
Upon saving you’ll get some workout summary details. This includes overall averages, as well as lap averages. I don’t find the lap averages page terribly useful, primarily due to the lack of power information on there.
From there, if you click the little icon in the upper right corner, it’ll allow you to save it out to various destinations that you’ve pre-configured. In my case, I’ve setup the unit to share to Training Peaks and Garmin Connect. Additionally, I can e-mail the workout files. E-mailing is great because it includes the files in a slew of common formats, that virtually any application on the planet can accept.
If you haven’t setup sharing ahead of time, fear not, the workout is still saved locally and you can share it later. You can pre-configure these sharing options though with a number of services. Below are the current services.
With that, you’re data is transmitted off to the service and you’re good to go.
You can see how I often feel that the best application out there for use on the iPhone and flexibility of the data is actually the default Wahoo App. I’m one who just wants the data in the formats I want it in, and care little about putting it in yet another app’s online site. Thus, this allows me to get it to Training Peaks or Garmin Connect (my two main dumping grounds for files), and not worry about it.
Note that the application supports user profile settings such as setting up heart rate zones, power zones, weight, and audio cues as well. You can see some of the zones information in my various screenshots above.
Trainer Feel:
A lot of people ask about ‘feel’ when talking about trainers. I’m a horrible person to ask about that. Perhaps because with the exception of the LeMond Revolution Pro, most trainers for me fall into two categories: Feels fine, or feels sucky. The Wahoo KICKR falls into the ‘feels fine’ category. Admittedly, at the upper end of that. The LeMond revolution is the only trainer that I say ‘Yes, I FEEL that!’.
I train so much in erg-mode, that ‘feel’ isn’t really part of the equation. Rather, providing consistent resistance is of more importance to me. Which isn’t to say I don’t value feel at all. It’s just that I personally don’t rank it high on my list of important items in a trainer. Rather, I prefer accuracy, durability, interoperability, and anything else ending with the letter ‘y’. Touch-feely does not count.
But, others who have ridden KICKR that do rate feel higher, do like the feel more than most trainers…for what it’s worth.
Noise Levels:
Noise levels across trainers are a funny duck. There are many aspects that impact noise, from cassettes to trainer tires to room flooring (i.e. wood vs carpet), to trainer mats and so on. The most important non-environmental factor across trainers is actually speed. Not wattage. I can keep the wattage at a set amount, and simply vary my speed (via gearing or cadence) to change the volume
I previously had done a sound test back in early January, comparing the KICKR to both the LeMond Revolution as well as the Kinetic Road Machine. In that test I used a few different benchmarks, though keeping the gearing and speed levels the same – resistance was the one variable. I generally went from low speed to high speed and just let it be.
This time, I decided to approach it slightly differently. Instead of focusing as much on a high-end speed, I’d just focus on a very common threshold – 200 watts at 20MPH. I kept my gearing exactly the same across all three units (well, you’ll see I had to gear down one ring on the Kinetic because I was too fast).
I then increased the speed to 30MPH, and then to 50MPH on both the KICKR and the CompuTrainer. The sole purpose of this was merely to make it as loud as possible.
Thus, in effect I’ve given you noise levels at ‘normal’ (20MPH), not-so-normal-but-perhaps-occasional (30MPH), and outright silly (50MPH).
Here’s the new video montage:
And, for those that don’t care about video, here’s the simple table.
Trainer
20MPH (200w)
30MPH (200w)
50MPH (200w)
Wahoo KICKR
68.7db
83.5db
86.1db
RacerMate CompuTrainer
69.7db
82.4db
85.8db
Kinetic Road Machine
70.0db
82.6db
N/A
I didn’t include the LeMond Revolution Pro this time, because honestly it’s like bringing a bull into a china shop. I’ve well established it’s incredibly loud at every level, well beyond these other trainers. Not even in the same city, let alone ballpark. And just repeating how much louder it is than the other ones seems silly. You can watch my previous video here on it.
Calibration:
The KICKR supports a calibration spin down method, which enables you to account for any resistance in the system, and/or environmental or manufacturing variations. In order to initiate the spin down, from within the Wahoo Fitness app you’ll simply select the little wheel icon from the upper right corner. You can trigger this at any time during a workout (before starting, during, paused), though I’d recommend you pause the workout so you don’t have a random data blob in the middle that doesn’t match the rest of your workout.
When you do so, you’ll see the button for ‘Calibrate KICKR’ – which will give you instructions to perform the spin down. In short, you’ll be going up to 23MPH, and then coasting until you see a notification (10MPH).
You can see the system will wait until you’ve reached the correct speed:
Then, as you coast down from 23MPH to 10MPH, it’ll
Finally, spin-down complete!
No specific calibration value is outputted during calibration – just a good to go!
3rd party apps also have access to the calibration API’s. And the API’s for 3rd party apps also provide more detailed feedback on the above calibration method (result feedback). And in fact, they have two options. The first is the roll-down like above. Different apps have implemented that different ways. You’ll see for example in Trainer Road that the upper left corner will say ‘Calib Ready’ when it’s prepared for a calibration:
The second method that apps have available to them is a zero-offset. This test is done with the unit at a stand-still (no pedaling). Today, to my knowledge no 3rd party apps have yet taken advantage of this functionality – though it is there. You can see this available in a non-public toolset that Wahoo has for testing, which will give identical results for 3rd party apps.
I’d expect to see this added in an app like Golden Cheetah, which caters to users that may have more desire to tinker. Wahoo believes that the current roll-down method is very accurate, and is their preferred method. In my testing, I’d agree with that assessment. It’s easy and straight-forward.
January 2016 Update Note: In addition to the spin-down type calibration, Wahoo now also offers a physical calibration tool. This is essentially a weight that’s used to calibrate your KICKR if you believe it’s out of whack. You can either buy this tool from them, or you can contact their support desk and they’ll loan it to you (though I think there is sometimes a waiting list).
Firmware Updates:
The Wahoo KICKR can receive over the air firmware updates via Bluetooth Smart. When a new firmware update is available, the Wahoo App will notify you of the update, and then redirect you over to the Wahoo Utility app, which performs the actual update:
The updater will first download the software package from the internet, and then apply the update.
I find the process usually takes a few minutes to complete. So I often just leave it sitting on the flywheel to update. I figure that gives it the best connectivity to the communications pod a few inches away.
Once complete it’ll ask you to unplug the KICKR trainer and then reset any KICKR apps that you may have had open. Overall a very painless process that I’ve done numerous times over the last two months.
January 2016 Notes: In addition to the main production Wahoo firmware updates, you can also get Wahoo KICKR beta firmware updates (such as FE-C), which can sometimes add new features ahead of release. These beta updates may last months. To access the beta updates, you’ll need the Wahoo Utility app, and then you can follow the steps in this short movie clip to access the beta firmware menu.
Power Accuracy:
I’ve spent a LOT of time riding the KICKR over the past two months. Tons of time. And if there’s nothing else that’s impressive, it’s aspects of the accuracy component. Now, I say ‘aspects’ because there are actually two pieces I look at when I’m talking about resistance controlling trainers. The first is how quickly the unit controls the resistance, and how it responds to your output. Remember, the trainer is designed to hold a given wattage in most circumstances – either directly or indirectly. Meaning it’s holding a specific value such as watts, or it’s holding a grade. You want to ensure that if its holding a wattage, that it can do that even when I dramatically change my output.
Take for example the Tacx Genius. This trainer had a very slow response to my sudden changes in wattage. Sometimes 10-15 seconds if I made a sudden jump, before it would pull the resistance unit back in to what it was set out. The CompuTrainer on the other hand, very quick, it doesn’t let you get out of line.
I found the KICKR more in line with the CompuTrainer. It kept the wattage right on-par, despite any fluctuations on my part. And within 1-2 seconds it would adapt to any major shifts. Significant wattage changes saw roughly the same ramp. I saw slightly more ramp when I was talking major shifts. For example, during a TrainerRoad workout that went from 155w to 465w, it took about 4-5 seconds for it to ramp up. This isn’t really a bad thing per se, as it means you don’t have the brick-wall syndrome (where it feels like you’ve just smacked a brick-wall), and thus it allows your legs to adapt to the change.
The second piece is accuracy against other power meters. Anytime I test against other power meters, there’s an aspect of ‘Who’s right?’. And honestly, I’m not here to answer that. And thankfully, in this case, I don’t really think there’s a reason to try and answer that. To put it into perspective, see below:
The two Edge 800’s are paired to the Quarq and Stages PM, while the iPhone is controlling the KICKR. The big iPhone number (200w) is wattage set-point. The small iPhone number (199w) is my current instant-power. On the Edge 800’s you see my 10-second power as the upper number (200w and 206w respectively), and the number directly below that is the 30s average (199w and 205w respectively). Cadence is also displayed, based on those units internal power-meter provided cadence sensors.
With the latest KICKR firmware late last week, they’ve resolved any outstanding beta bugs I was seeing, and things are very stable now – from low speed to high speed, as well as coasting. Previous beta drops (again now solved) had some issues with coasting where it didn’t account for it, thus skewing some of my numbers from those workouts for any time I was coasting (which was pretty rarely).
Here’s a workout I completed on the latest firmware, and you can see just how solid it tracked against both the Quarq:
From a power meter variability standpoint, here’s how things tracked. First, in raw watts. What you see is that post-calibration (at about the 600 marker), things are right on top of each other. Generally within 10w of variability, but often within just a couple watts.
Now where you see differences is those five spikes – or quick accelerations I did. The reason for the differences isn’t actually dramatic differences in power readings. Instead, it’s just inherent lag between data sets albeit synchronized).
That said, here’s what things look like from a percentage standpoint (I cut it off at 60-80% so you’d get more action on the graph):
Again, you’ll see the big jumps during the accelerations just due to tracking. If you look at the point after the calibration, things get remarkably stable. This was mostly a 10-minute relatively steady-state effort. Post-accelerations you see a bit more variability. This is partially the result of just the way that the Quarq reports power back having more variability in it – like most all power meters out there today. For fun, I picked a completely random 15-20 second snip (I really just scrolled a bunch and just stopped and copied a chunk of data. What you see there is that the KICKR has much less variability between data points, and thus you’ll see that more stable line.
You’ll note that all three are within 2.3% of each other. In the above, I went ahead and included the Stages data that I was capturing as well. Just for perspective on data frequency. I have specifically not included it in the other graphs as I’m still working with them on the a follow-up review, and I don’t want this to become another Stages PM review. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ll definitely post an update to that in the future. But I don’t have a timeframe for doing so.
On the KICKR front, obviously, because of a lack of rear-wheel, I cannot compare it with a PowerTap output – which would otherwise be on the rear wheel.
January 2016 Note: While my experience with the KICKR has been very solid on the accuracy front (on both my initial KICKR this review is based on, as well as the one I later purchased). However, some folks have seen power accuracy issues. It appears that early models (i.e. those in the first year), were very solid. Then somewhere along the way accuracy slipped. In early 2015, Wahoo added a person dedicated to accuracy testing of KICKR’s, as well as introduced a number of power accuracy improvements. These appear targeted at later-production KICKR’s that were having accuracy issues.
RFLKT Control:
At present, one cannot control the KICKR trainer using RFLKT. It is coming, but it’s just not there yet today. RFLKT today allows you to view information provided by your iPhone over a Bluetooth channel. Think of it as a remote display. 3rd party applications are being developed by various companies to take advantage of this. Effectively replacing a Garmin on your handlebars. Instead, app makes such as Strava would have connectivity to the RFLKT, and be able to display whatever they pleased on it.
You can and will however get data fields from KICKR presented to RFLKT. For example, I can pipe the wattage to the unit, and stop and start the training effort from the RFLKT.
Down the road, I’d like to see everything from being able to control wattage/resistance (basic) to starting a calibration routine. All this is relatively straightforward from a programming standpoint – it’s just a matter of where it stands on Wahoo’s internal development totem pole. And note that this would be controlled by either the Wahoo App, or another application (Wahoo or 3rd party). Meaning that the RFLKT wouldn’t directly control the Wahoo KICKR, but instead would pair to an phone or computer app, which in turn controls both. All of this control is done over Bluetooth Smart, as the current crop of RFLKT units do not have ANT+ within them.
ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart:
The KICKR is unique in that it’s the only trainer on the market today that is fully Bluetooth and ANT+ enabled. The unit contains the necessary hardware for communication to existing ANT+ devices (such as the Garmin Edge 500 or Forerunners), as well as Bluetooth Smart support for phone and tablet based devices.
Bluetooth Smart integration requires the use of a Bluetooth 4.0 device. Which means you have have an iPhone 4s or newer, or a 3rd generation iPad or newer. Additionally, at this stage the only Bluetooth Smart device support for these device profiles is on the Apple platform.
From the ANT+ side, the unit uses the ANT+ Bike Power Meter device profile to broadcast your current power and speed. This means it’s compatible with all current ANT+ power meter head units. For example, the Garmin FR310XT/FR910XT/Edge 500/Edge 510/Edge 705/Edge 800/Edge 810, all CycleOps Joule units and Joule GPS, Timex Global Trainer, Magellan Switch, and countless other apps. It will not at this time broadcast cadence though, so you’ll need to add an ANT+ cadence meter into the mix in order to get that on an ANT+ enabled device.
On the Bluetooth Smart side, it uses the standardized Bluetooth Smart Power Meter device profile to broadcast the same power and speed information. This means that it’s compatible with devices that support that device profile. At present, that’s only software apps, and no physical head units. The unit utilizes the same standard as the Kinetic inRide and Stages Power Meter, which are both based upon the agreed and ratified spec for Bluetooth Smart PM’s.
Finally, at this time (as of March 5th), Bluetooth Smart is currently the only way to control the resistance in the KICKR trainer. Meaning, you have to have a compatible Apple device (either phone/tablet/Mac) to control the unit. The next step is ANT+ control, which the Wahoo team is working away on. They expect it’ll be released to developers in the coming weeks (which I’ll talk about in a second).
At this point, support for Bluetooth Smart control on Windows simply isn’t on their radar. Instead, they’d leverage ANT+ support for that. On the Android side, Bluetooth Smart control will be coming, but it’s really in the hands of the handset manufactures right now, more than Wahoo (Wahoo is waiting on them). Samsung will be first, and HTC following that. The good news there is that the ANT+ support with a couple dollar OTG cable should largely get Android folks up and running quickly once the Wahoo ANT+ support is finalized.
Finally of note, is that CycleOps has committed to adding in the ANT+ Resistance Control spec to their trainers as well, as soon as it’s finalized by Wahoo Fitness. This is actually pretty significant, as in doing so it completely opens up their platform to the same level of 3rd party development that Wahoo will have (minus the Bluetooth Smart side for the moment). Further, I think it’ll hopefully pressure other companies to do the same (looking at you Tacx).
January 2016 Update: In 2015 many companies adopted the ANT+ FE-C standard for control of trainers from apps such as Zwift, TrainerRoad, and Kinomap (among many others). At this time, Wahoo is currently beta testing this for the KICKR & KICKR SNAP, which can be accessed via the beta firmware option (see the end of the Firmware Updates section above to access it.)
3rd Party Apps:
January 2016 Note: It’s really best to just see my trainer app guide (it’s massive), since everything posted below, while generally still correct, is rather outdated. Whereas my guide is huge and covers some 20 apps!
Perhaps the biggest single reason the KICKR is so different than other trainers is the open nature of it. Thus, I really wanted to dive into what some of the 3rd party apps are doing. Now, this section is a bit unique in that I’m not so much doing a deep-dive review on these apps. More just talking about what they do. Some of these apps are still in development, and some are complete (I’ll note which ones). And realistically, there’s a TON more apps in the pipeline by a lot of folks I’ve talked with. As these companies release apps I’ll add them in here. Sort of a gallery. Well, at least until there’s too many. Many of these companies are waiting for the ANT+ Resistance Control. In talking with Wahoo over the weekend, they hope to have this in developers hands in the next 1-2 weeks. After getting the units into your hands today, that’s their next big-ticket item to knock out.
Once that happens, it really opens the door to all of the PC apps, and apps that don’t have Bluetooth Smart in it. That’s because these apps can use the ANT+ USB adapter, as well as the existing Wahoo Fitness iPhone ANT+ adapter (for pre-iPhone 4s units).
But ultimately, I knew folks really wanted to hear what I had to say – so I wanted to go ahead get the review out the door, even if all the apps weren’t quite finished. As such, a huge thanks to all the developers below who I pestered endlessly to get me pre-release builds to be able to put this all together in time.
3rd Party Apps: Trainer Road:
TrainerRoad is one of the apps that is fully KICKR ready today (if you have a Mac, pending ANT+ support for Windows). In fact, it’s actually supported KICKR since all the way back in August at Eurobike. TrainerRoad is a subscription based app that’s available on Windows and PC’s (not on iPads/iPhones) that has a massive workout library and guides you through completing workouts with your data being recorded on the computer and then uploaded upon completion to a central web platform.
The first step that you’ll complete is to pair the computer to the KICKR. To do so you’ll simply click the ‘Pair’ button next to Wahoo KICKR, and it’ll find the trainer via Bluetooth Smart. This only takes a few seconds. Additionally, I’ve also paired in a Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate Strap as well as Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence sensor. TrainerRoad also lets you use existing ANT+ sensors you may have too. So if you have an ANT+ HR strap or sensor, you can mix and match with KICKR to get all your data.
TrainerRoad has a massive online workout database, and you can also create your own workouts for it as well. In my case, I just cracked open a quick workout and went to town.
TrainerRoad has the concept of target power – which is the power you should be attaining. In the case of KICKR, the software will automatically control the trainer to be that particular resistance/wattage. So in this case ,you can see that it’s currently set for 403w, and I’m achieving 404w. On the right side, you’ll see my heart rate (156bpm), and my cadence (83RPM). In the middle you’ve got my interval time, and time left in the interval.
Looking at the graphs, it’ll track that information as I go along throughout the workout.
Additionally, as you can see below, as I complete intervals it’ll automatically spit out summary information for each set. In this case my precision is at a bit of a disadvantage due to the slight ramp rate from 124w to 465w (in this case), thus it’s a bit lower than you’d probably have for a longer interval.
TrainerRoad has a pretty huge and loyal following, and is currently in their second season in the market.
About the only thing I’d love to see them integrate into this is support for RFLKT – primarily to control the workout resistance as required (and or pause/stop). Today you need access to a keyboard (or, to place your sweaty hands on your laptop/keyboard). This would seem to be a perfect use case for RFLKT.
The again, most every app I talk about here is a perfect use-case for RFLKT.
Note that TrainerRoad also supports videos like Sufferfest, which are synchronized to both the resistance and the video itself. I demo’d one of these in TrainerRoad as part of my Kinetic inRide Review, so you can check it out there.
3rd Party Apps: Kinomap:
Next up is Kinomap. Kinomap is different from the likes of TrainerRoad in that Kinomap’s focus is primarily on recreation of outdoor rides. They do this by providing a subscription service that includes unlimited use of a video library. That video library has GPS courses which are synchronized to it, which in turn control the KICKR trainer to feel like outdoors.
You’ll pair the Kinomap application to the KICKR, as well as any ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart sensors you have:
You can also specify resistance attributes as well as which format to show your speed/distance data in (such as MPH or KPH):
First up is picking out a course to ride.
There are courses on road, as well as off-road. Interestingly, because Kinomap can also be used for running and rowing, there are courses on water as well. I’d suggest you use the video filtering options to focus on cycling courses:
Once you’ve got the video selected you’ll ensure that your sensors are still paired:
At which point you’ll go ahead and start. Within the main Kinomap screen there are a few different views you can use. The video is pretty much always present, but the bottom half of the screen can be configured differently depending on whether you want to view a map, a dashboard of stats, or an elevation profile.
Once the video has started, you’ll be shown how far ahead or behind the video you are. As you can see in the above screenshot, you can select how the software reacts when you fall behind. It can stop and wait for you, or it can change the video rate.
Also of note is that the video can be seperately split out to an external display. You can see some of these options here.
To do so, you’ll need the little adapter if plugging into an HDMI source (like a TV). But this is ideal if you want to display things on a much bigger screen.
At the completion of your workout, you can upload your session details to a variety of sites, including Training Peaks.
If you’re most familiar with entertainment based suites like that of the CompuTrainer Real Course videos, or the Tacx videos, you’ll probably find yourself drawn to Kinomap. It’s a bit pricier than the other options, but the all-you-can-eat aspect of it is hugely appealing. The video quality is generally lower than the perfectly image-stabilized videos you’ll find by Tacx, but at the same price you’re not paying $30-$100US for each one.
Also note that you can indeed create your own videos with GPS data and upload them to the Kinomap service.
3rd Party Apps: iMobileIntervals
Next up is iMobileIntervals. This somewhat lesser known app joins the fray at a cheaper $5.99 – one-time purchase price. The app has long interfaced with Wahoo Fitness devices, and in fact was pretty much one of the very first apps to talk to the original Wahoo Fitness ANT+ adapter.
This app can be used to quickly and easy create and execute workouts with predefined interval times. Additionally, you can control the KICKR in a standard ERG mode as well (meaning, just control wattage on the fly). The first step is pairing to the KICKR trainer, which takes about one button press:
And just like that, you’re ready to begin.
When you first start out, you can load up previously saved workouts of your own, create a new workout, and pull one from a library of workouts.
The library can be sorted by category of workouts, as well as other attributes such as username. You can then publically save your workouts as well for others to use.
I went ahead and created my own workout. You can simply add warm-up and cool-down chunks, and then repeating intervals very quickly and easily.
As you can see from the timestamps, creating the below workout only took me about 1-2 minutes.
Once you’re done creating the workout, it’ll be time to complete the workout (it’ll save it for you as well). While executing the workout you can skip to different parts by simply using the music-style controls. This is useful (and unique) in the event you’re short on time and need to move into the next section. You can also specify a wattage offset in the event that you’re just not holding on anymore.
Last but not least, two items of note. First is that you can define and display TSS/NP/IF information within the app, and that you can pair to other ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart sensors. The app is interestingly enough the only app today to support the Wahoo RFLKT.
If you aren’t sure which apps you want to use with the KICKR today, the iMobileIntervals certainly is a good way to go – especially if you need an interim solution. Obviously, the graphics on it aren’t exactly the most visually stunning, but the functionality is there and works – which is what most folks are looking for. And for the price, it’s hard to beat.
3rd Party Apps: Golden Cheetah:
Next up is Golden Cheetah. Golden Cheetah is an opensource software suite primarily focused on cycling that has historically had its roots in the analytics side. A while back they added a training mode which enabled you to connect to and control some trainers (as well as get virtual power from other trainers with known power curves).
The latest beta builds of Golden Cheetah will shortly allow you to connect to and control the Wahoo KICKR. I got to play with some early previews of it, and will give you the quick rundown. At present, this will require a Mac, since ANT+ control isn’t there yet. But as soon as Wahoo releases ANT+ control, then the Golden Cheetah folks will add it in so that Windows users are also good to go.
First up is adding the Wahoo KICKR Trainer:
It’ll then go off and search for the trainer using the Bluetooth Smart within most recent Mac models. If you have an older Mac, you can simply pickup a $12 Bluetooth Smart USB adapter.
Once the device is found, you’ll go ahead and give it a name:
With the trainer added, we can start to control it.
Instead though, I’m going to create a workout. Golden Cheetah has two options here. The first is to pull workouts from the large online (and free) workout database ErgDB. The second is to simply create your own. In my case, I just created a quick demo one, that you can see below.
For this workout, I used predefined wattage steps – though I could have used % of FTP Wattage or gradient as well. Each chunk in the workout has a specific number of minutes assigned to it (which I supplied). As I’m building this, it’ll create a small graph of the workout as well.
These workouts can be saved locally, or published as well. If you save them locally, you can see how easy they are to edit:
Finally comes time to load up the workout, or to control the unit in a general resistance mode.
While controlling the unit your data will be displayed up on the top. In my case, my current KICKR power, my current KICKR speed, and distance information as well. Additionally, the app would normally display the assigned power level, and the steps within the workout would be overlaid onto the screen. I was running into a bit of a pre-beta bug, so it wasn’t showing up for me.
In addition to the raw data, I can also add in media files (such as movies) that can be display alongside my data – to make the trainer ride slightly more bearable. Once the workout has completed, it’s automatically saved into your workout history within Golden Cheetah. And from there you can easily export it out to numerous formats, or straight to services such as TrainingPeaks, Strava, RideWithGPS and more.
For many folks, the free Golden Cheetah may be the best bet if your looking for one-stop shopping around training and analysis all for the unbeatable price of…free.
3rd Party Apps: Strava Segments by Wahoo
Ok, this one isn’t exactly third party. It’s made by Wahoo. It’s just not released yet. And, there’s no specific timetable to release it. But, it’s cool enough that I wanted to give you a brief tour. I’ve previously shown off bits of it back at Eurobike and Interbike. But this time I had a bit more hands-on time with it.
The Segments app allows you to search out and load up any Strava Segment uploaded anywhere in the world. I simply enter in a city name and/or location, and then off I go.
By doing so, I’ll see the various segments available within that view. I can then zoom around the map (typical pinch/zoom) to look at a given segment. By doing so I’ll pull open the current Leaderboard for that segment, as well as a course profile. You’ll note it also has my best time listed (if I’ve raced that segment). Note that today even if you complete a segment on the KICKR, it’s not uploaded back into Strava. It’s purely separate on your own device.
I went ahead and I changed focus just down the road a few miles to my old neighborhood.
From there I found a suitable course that was short for the purposes of this demo:
The bonus was that it was downhill. :) The second bonus was that my next-door neighbor was on the leaderboard. And thus, I planned to beat him.
You can see prior to me riding the course, if I switch the leaderboard stats over to ‘KICKR Trainer’, it’s empty. Also note that ‘Best time’ is empty too.
I should probably note that this is an iPad app, and does require an iPad that supports Bluetooth Smart (3rd generation and above).
The course takes a few seconds to load up, and then it’s ready to go. Once you start pedaling you’ll get 10 seconds. This is fair since in this particular example most riders would be coming from down a hill, versus a dead stop.
Here you can see me about 12 seconds into this effort. My wattage and current stat information is displayed against the current leader, in real-time. Additionally, it has a small dot showing where he and I are.
Obviously, had I not run a half-marathon 90 minutes prior, I probably would have had slightly more success in this venture.
But my goal was ultimately accomplished, and I beat my neighbor by 5 seconds. Good enough for me!
You’ll note that the KICKR Trainer category for this particular segment now has my best time on it. On a day I’m more fresh I’ll come back and take care of this…
For an unreleased app that was thrown together at the last minute before Eurobike, the functionality is incredibly cool and pretty engrossing. Hopefully Wahoo and Strava can work through any of the remaining items and get it published up to the App Store. Awesome stuff.
My DIY iPad Stand:
In case you’re wondering where that iPad and iPhone stand came from I used throughout the review, it’s actually one I built. I posted about it a while back. The whole thing cost $30 and is quick and easy DIY.
It allows me to mount not only the iPad onto it, but also the iPhone and various cycling units as I need to.
The full parts list (only a few parts) is available below as well:
(Note: There are a slew of mic stands out there, I selected this one primarily because it had a heavy round base that wasn’t shaped like a tripod – but was still small. I figured the tripod style ones would be easy to trip over.)
(Note: There are a gazillion iPhone bike mounts, the one I selected is kinda bulky, but it gets the job done. You can probably pick something more elegant…but it’ll likely cost ya. Similarly, you can use any bike mount that floats your boat for other phone types.)
Buyer’s Guide:
Each year I release a trainer buyers guide, which outlines all of my recommendations by price category. Rather than re-type that here, I’d recommend you hit up that post for all the details. You’ll find it here, full of more detail than you can shake a stick at!
Pros and Cons:
With that, here’s the pros and cons, updated as of January 2016 (most other sections of this review haven’t been updated since then, though, largely still apply).
Pros:
– Open platform, others can develop against it (now some 20+ apps that work with it).
– Just works factor (never have to futz around with it)
– Supports both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+
– Noise levels are compatible to other trainers, lower in some cases
– Pricing is about $500 cheaper than CompuTrainer or TACX Neo
– Pretty cool apps already coming out and available for it
Cons:
– Must remove rear wheel from bike
– Pretty darn heavy
– Some functionality does require 3rd party apps that is typically included (i.e. workout creator)
– While extremely rare, wireless interference can be an issue
– Some users have seen accuracy issues on units (this seems limited to a range of older units, though not the oldest, nor the newest)
Summary:
There’s no question in my mind that the Wahoo KICKR trainer has completely changed the trainer landscape. Partly because of the hardware, but more importantly because of the ability for 3rd party companies to develop software for it. As you’ve seen above, companies and organizations are already doing so (with more than 20 supporting the KICKR as of January 2016) – and at price points significantly lower than the high-priced multi-hundred dollar software suites that the market is currently locked into.
As a platform without 3rd party software, the KICKR is still reasonably strong. Yes, it does lack the massive software suites like that of the Tacx TTS suite. But it also lacks that software price tag of that suite. I believe the ability for you to ride your trainer with any app you want is far stronger than being locked into a given platform (note that Tacx also now allows 3rd party control too).
While my experience with the KICKR has been generally quite good, there are a handful of users over the past few years that have struggled with power accuracy issues. Wahoo says they’ve doubled down on testing efforts for these, and it appears that newer units aren’t having the issues that some units as of a year or two ago did (early units didn’t have issues either). Which, is pretty much the only complaint you’ll find against the Wahoo KICKR (though, certainly a valid one if you’re struggling with accuracy issues).
Lastly, the KICKR does face competition from the TACX NEO trainer as a high-end unit. The main differences between those two are around sound (the KICKR is far louder), as well as some control pieces using ANT+ FE-C (the KICKR currently has that in beta, NEO is released/production). Check out my larger trainer recommendations guide though, for how to decide which trainer might be right for you.
Found This Post Useful? Support The Site!
Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
If you're shopping for the Wahoo Fitness KICKR V1/2013 or any other accessory items, please consider using the affiliate links below! As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot.
Since the Wahoo Fitness KICKR V1/2013 is no longer sold, I recommend looking at Wahoo KICKR V5/2020:
The original trainer desk. They're awesome for stacking (more)
The original trainer desk. They're awesome for stacking up nutrition, phones, and extra things you need for that short or long trainer ride. It can hold a tablet up on edge too.
The headwind fan is one of those fans that's probably overpriced, but it's also just a really darn good fan. I know of nobody (including myself) that's bought one that's unhappy with it. Super strong and you can turn it on from your phone if you forget.
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
I use Apple TV for Zwift the vast majority of the time, but also just for watching YouTube/Netflix/etc on the trainer. The Apple TV remote sucks though. This $8 case fixes that, it's a silicone strap that makes it easy to grab, but also has a strap to easily place on the edge of your handlebars. Boom! Note: Not compatible with 2021 Apple TV Edition.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three $15 fans floating around the DCR Cave (previously Honeywell ones, but seems to be rebranded as Amazon Basics now), and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Shed Talkin' video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
So far, I’ve used my Kickr mostly in ERG mode and I really like it.
If I wanted to simply simulate a 20 mile time trial ride on a flat road with no wind, (Yeah, I know, not terribly realistic), what mode and settings are the best to use?
I like the erg mode too but I find it to be more useful (along with the cadence sensor) as a school ‘marm to make sure I’m hitting the numbers.
For what you describe, I’ve been playing around with the resistance setting. It appears as if 20 or 25% seems to be the spot where the “feel” (as well as the speed and power indication) mimics a flat ride. A spindown calc once a week or so is a good idea to keep things equal for future comparisons.
The positive with this method is that I can work off heart rate, which matches a little better with my objectives during this “base period” time of the year.
We have a kickr but experience issues adding a second user. Instead of connecting automatically, the wahoo fitness app asks for a wahoo key (which was not needed or the first bike/user). How did you add the second user?
Received my Kickr from Wahoo last week. So far I’m very happy with it. After setting it up with my bike, it did make some intermittent grinding noise from the flywheel but that quickly disappeared after the calibration and with continued use. Now it is very quiet, within the limits of its mechanical nature. Have the fork of my bike attached to a Kreitler Dyno-Myte forkstand, with the wheel adjustment set to 29″, which gives great solidity of support. Am using Kinomap Trainer, Virtual Training, as well as the Wahoo Fitness app through my iPad mini with good results. Will be setting up my PC/Windows to run Veloreality videos soon. Very addictive and enjoyable.
Using kicker since November no issues until my ride this morning. Stopped showing power and the resistance is 0. Unit still shows connected to apps but no power.
Thanks.
I just popped mine off blew on the senor to remove some dust and on the white and black disk. After I put the sensor back on It is working. Hopefully thats all it was was a little dust build up.
Exactly same situation as Kenny’s !!!! Riding 2 months and suddenly power goes up and down , then to 0 , then oscillate. Open Service Request with Wahoo Support but waiting days for response.
If there is anybody from Wahoo monitoring this site please help me , my request# is 79114 .
Check out Brian’s post from the 16. I watched the video from the link that was posted. I didn’t install a new speed sensor but I did pop mine off and blow some dust build up off and on the white and black disk.
Popped it back on and it is now reading speed and power. Hopefully that’s all it was. We’ll see how things go when I ride in the morning.
Very similar issue to the last couple (#898, #910 etc.) only mid intervals on Traineroad the app was on a rest interval and detailing 92 watts however the resistance on the Kickr was still recording (and was still set to) 231 watts. Paused the session, blew off any dust on the optical sensor (per 898 above) and recalibrated – all was well for the rest of the session.
My question is this, has anyone else had this issue – I performed a spindown only last week. Its not too inconvenient to perform a spindown before starting each training session as it only takes a minute or two, but would obviously prefer not to. I’ll monitor this and see how I get on, and if it happens again I’ll raise a ticket with Wahoo – as it worked after the above I don’t feel the need to open a ticket as yet. Just looking for any feedback from other users who may have experienced the same thing.
Its an amazing piece of kit and hopefully this is just a quick glitch!
Third call and still no response from Wahoo. I finally emailed them. No one told me that I’m being forced to email Wahoo in case my product doesn’t work. Makes sense though, this way the responsible people can hide and let the support guys take the heat.
I’m wondering why no one of the Wahoo tech guys, who obviously monitor this site, have responded?
As per my response on the 15th January, I instructed you to submit a support ticket, this allows our support team to track and have the correct person respond. While I and a few of the other engineers do monitor this site we are not always the best people to help. Wahoo has a specialist support team trained to assist with KICKR support, while I consider myself a power user, I personally don’t know how to diagnose all KICKR hardware issues.
When you first posted here our team tried to find information on your issue but you have not given any details of your problem so no one has been able to help. Please submit a support ticket with details of your issue and someone will contact you. Once you have a ticket number, feel free to post it here or quote it when leaving a voice mail message, we do not have full-time phone support but someone will get back to you.
btw, this is a big flaw of most product reviews…unboxing, setting up, testing..all good. But customer service is a huge part of how good a product performs (or not), and it’s rarely getting tested by reviews.
almost a week on a support ticket 79114 , I have received only one advice , to clean dust like some helpful people here are suggesting, but this is not working for me. Can you “push” work on this ticket ?
I just bought the Wahoo on the 23rd, logged a support ticket (#79151) with them on the 25th and got a response that they wanted video of my issue. The issue being a loud scraping noise from the spin drum when in use. I provided a link to a YouTube video (link to youtube.com) that I took of the issue on the 27th and have yet to hear a response. Just tried calling the phone support number and it says that no voice mailbox has been set up so I couldn’t even leave a voicemail.
While I applaud them for responding to me on a Sunday to get more information on my issue, going 3 days with no response is more than a little troubling for a product I paid $1000 for.
I look forward to a resolution to my issue, if anyone else has experienced similar let me know if you found a solution that worked.
First let me comment on your noise, I had a similar noise in one Kickr I’ve had and it was similar although not identical to yours. It required a return of the unit.
Second the way I understand support, use the Wahoo web pages and get a ticket number. Don’t email again until they contact you. Support will contact you be patient. I had similar frustrations as yours.
HTH
Jerry
Wahoo Megan here! I just wanted to quickly apologize for the recent delay in responding to customer service issues. Wahoo Fitness is located in Atlanta, GA and if you’ve been following the news you’ve probably seen that the entire city is shut down. We’re running on a skeleton crew today (mostly from home) but hopefully we’ll be back full force tomorrow. We still have a few Wahooligans on the road trying to make it home from yesterday, so please be patient with us for the next day or so. We’ll be working overtime to make sure everyone gets taken care of!
Thanks for the update, at least I know why it’s taking so long now. :) Coming from a city that is used to snow and ice (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) I’m used to the conditions down there, but I know they don’t get that kind of weather often. I hope everyone is OK.
Finally after much procrastination, I got the kickr, and is setup. I love it!! It’s an amazing tool. I want to start using other apps such as Kinomap or TR (these are just onese that i have learned about on this site).
I want to upload rides that i have stored in Garmin Connect into any app that is free. Does one exist or is that wishful thinking?
My preference would be to not have to pay for anything else since i just spent $1100. If the only way is to pony up more $$ i guess i’ll happily spend more.
I’ve had some good luck with Virtual Training when it comes up uploading GC rides. It’s a pretty simple uploader and allows you to adjust the elevation smoothing a bit. Only used it a couple times but seemed to work smooth for me!
Greg – Consider trying Veloreality. Run from a Windows computer via an ANT+ connection to the Kickr, the software has superb videos, the best available.
Rainmaker and Brad – Thanks for the reply. Yes, I should have explained myself better. I am looking to get an app that will allow me to ride previous rides. I looked at the Cyclops Trainer Road app, but was a bit confusing in that it appeared that I needed the $10 workstation app along with the $5 app on my ipad. It looked like I had to use the workstation to download from Garmin Connect, then upload into my account. Then from there I could use the Ipad app from there. Does that sound right?
Ideally it would be a free app, but if I have to pay a small monthly fee, then I guess i’ll have to do it.
By the way I think the kickr is amazing! I purchased it based on your review and the remarks of the followers on this post. I’ve never had a power meter before so this is an amazing tool which I hope will help better my overall bike times.
I’ve been using Virtual Training on a PC so I can’t attest to the capabilities of the app itself. The PC software is a small monthly charge but it gives me everything I need to ride existing courses or upload my own Garmin Connect files (I have to export them first but it’s a relatively easy process). I would imagine that you could upload the files on a PC and then save them for later use on the iPad but I am not 100% about this. Even though the app costs a few bucks, it’s only a one-time fee and you will get all future updates for free so it’s kind of a no-brainer! If I get some spare time, I’ll try downloading the app and examining the features a little closer but I can’t promise that’s going to happen any time soon, we’re pretty swamped here and the weather hasn’t helped things!
As Kenni mentioned, Strava Segments could also work but you’d have to create a “segment” out of the entire ride and then search for that segment each time.
Brad from Wahoo called me yesterday. I think it was even after hours. Very nice and helpful. Unit worked with Wahoo’s app, not with the Virtual apps and he’s looking into it.
I got my Kickr recently and so far everything works flawlessly. I didn’t ride any other trainer before, but I am very satisfied how the Kickr feels like. As a pure outdoor rider so far, the main feature which convinced me to get the Kickr was the possibility to control its resistance by importing GPX files or any other GPS data into a program. Doing so, I am able to ride my favorite outdoor courses or ambitious future courses directly at home. I got PerfPro Studio and a Suunto Movestick (ANT+ USB dongle) to control the Kickr. With this combination, you could also use your heart rate or cadence sensor from you bike computer, if these are also ANT+ compatible. PerfPro can detect them and display the data. Then you just import any GPX file or other GPS data into PerfPro and you are directly able to ride the corresponding height profile.
I know that GPS data is often poor in precision (which has been discussed in this thread quiet frequently), but I found in my opinion a good way to correct GPS data for the usage with the Kickr. There is a free program called GPS-track-analyse, which you can download from
Unfortunately it seems like German is the only interface language, but it has a quiet intuitive user interface. This tool allows you to open a GPX file for ex. and to manually edit it. It will give you an overview of total meters of climbing and all other infos you could get. This number is often far of from values I got for rides I recorded with my bike computer (barometrical). To correct the values and to get a realistic road feeling for the Kickr, the program allows you to flatten the height profile by applying some sort of polynomial function to fit the overall profile. You can only chose a few factors for the fitting (number of interpolation intervals, number of repeated calculations and to approximate the height values to full numbers), but you can repeat it several times till you get a value for the total meters climbing, which corresponds closely to the correct value. You also have the possibility to show you the distribution of all values of incline and decline, where you can directly delete unrealistic values (when the gradient would be for example 30% even though you know that the maximum for your ride is only 12% for example). I kick out all extreme and unrealistic values beforehand and the do the smoothing, like this I get very nice GPX files to ride with the Kickr. Like this, you don’t get into trouble that you suddenly have extreme values of gradients when you climb or a surprising descent in a mountain stage where normally there is none.
To ride a stage where I don’t have personal informations about the profile from my bike computer, you can nicely design your own route for free on
It’s very easy to use and you have a very good database for rides (at least in Europe). I like it much more than the Strava website (most segments are just way to short). You can export from bikemap your own designed route or an already predefined course as GPX file and load it into PerfPro (after editing it with the GPS analysis tool) and then enjoy your ride. Bikemap.net gives very good values for the total meters climbing when you design your own profile and also for the preexisting routes. Remember this number when you open the exported GPX file into the analysis tool, the value there will be totally different. Do the described editing steps to get a smooth profile and the realistic amount of meters you have to climb. I don’t use the Strava app for the iPad, but I guess you could also upload you edited GPX file to the Strava website and then ride it by controlling the Kickr with the iPad instead of controlling it via ANT+, but I am not sure if Strava will reedit the course when you upload your file. Maybe someone with the iPad app could try…
Overall I really love the Kickr, it seems very well built and it works exactly the way I imagined and out of the box. Nevertheless I would like to point out as well some things for improvement.
I noticed a week spot in the overall good quality of material, because one of the blue bolts to keep the stands in place came off while I was riding. Here are the links to pictures I took.
The problem is, that the bolt is only held in its place by a tiny horseshoe shaped metal ring, which is very thin and doesn’t correspond to the solidness of the rest of the machine. For 1000$ I would expect a better mechanism to keep the bolts in place. Fortunately I was able to reattach it with a nipper and I hope it is going to stay where it should be and I don’t need to contact the support for it.
The other thing I think should be improved is the manual and the general knowledgebase for the Kickr. The manual which is delivered with the machine itself doesn’t give any information other than a quick setup tutorial and important things how to troubleshoot the Kickr are widespread over the internet. You should really gather all these helpful informations you find in this forum and also some of the infos from the Wahoo website and write a proper pdf manual, which should be then updated from time to time. Furthermore, I can’t find anywhere informations on how to maintain the Kickr (how to keep it clean, which products can be used to keep it clean, is there anything to lube or to retighten after a certain amount of riding, which parts of the Kickr should never be opened or modified by oneself, etc.). It would be very good to get this kind of input to enjoy the Kickr as long as possible.
Anyway, in total I am very happy with the machine and I definitely can recommend it to others who are looking out for a good home trainer. Enjoy your ride!
I quite the like the unit. It took less than 30 minutes to unpack, download a few apps and mount the bike. I really recommend the TACX ipad handlebar mount.
Note: I have calibrated the unit several times (tried at the start of the ride, ten minutes into the ride, etc).
The watts reported by the Kickr (in both the Wahoo and the Virtual Training apps) is 20-30W more than the watts shown on my Quark SRAM Red Power Meter. For example, when Kickr reports 180W actual watts are less than 160, when Kickr reports 250W actual watts are around 220W.
I have tested the quark power meter against my computrainer and they are within 2-5W apart.
In addition, I can see that my heart rate is too low for the kickr reported watts. For example, on the computrainer my pulse is about 165 at 300W but on the kickr I required 330W to get to 165HR.
I have found several similar complaints on the web of the same issue. In some cases, it appears that a new Kickr is required???
I have noticed the same discrepancy in power between my Quarq and the Wahoo Kickr (Quarq = 20 Watts lower). Both are new to me (as is training with power) so I’m at a loss to know which is correct. I found this blog post link to slowroadie.com in which the author had a similar difference in power between his Quarq and PowerTap. His eventual solution was to re-torque the chainring bolts on the Quarq which appeared to drastically reduce the difference between the Quarq and PT.
I have the Quarq on my new road bike and use an older bike on my Kickr. I just re-torqued my chainring bolts on the Quarq equipped bike and after the weekend (riding outside with temps finally over 30°F), I’ll put it on the Kickr to compare them again. I wish I had a third power meter available to me to see one provides the most accurate results.
No matter if its the Quarq or the KICKR that is most accurate, its important that you have consistency across your indoor and outdoor workouts. If you are using the iMobileIntervals app you can offset the KICKR by the difference to align it with your power meter. I believe no other app offers this feature.
Jeff (or others) – After you’ve re-torqued the bolts on the Quarq, ensure you do a handful (3-4) hard standing starts/sprints to ‘set’ the unit. On the KICKR, simply do some all-out 20″ sprints. Outdoors, basically do the same thing. Then re-calibrate. Having done a lot of testing, there’s a substantial difference on units post-sprints than pre-sprints after installation (both on Quarq, but also other PM’s).
Now, the good news is that if you went out for a ride post-torque, you probably took care of that along the way.
I’ve checked KICKR against my Powertap few times and it stays within +/- 5W during steady site at 200W average and can deviate +/- 15-20W during hard sprints. Frankly I consider it quite normal. Too many factors are involved during measuring power. The companies whose business is making power meters of course put enough resources to perfect their contraptions. Companies making trainers on the other hands probably can not afford it. However the average power on KICKR is VERY consistent between the rides once calibrated. So if I was that much concerned about “perfect” watts I’d just simply rescale whatever workout you are people using to match whatever is needed.
Now. Computrainer in my measurements was not not any better. I tested it extensively (Pro model) and it behaves exactly the same. Very accurate/consistent during steady riding and not that much during hard sprints.
I would be *very* happy +/- 5W during a steady ride at 240W however, I am seeing deviations of 30W at that level. I am not concerned about hard sprints or bursts.
I didn’t see this variation on the computrainer or cycleops i400. Btw, only reason for switching was that the CT continually ate tubes and tires. Kickr solves that nicely.
Update: The watts difference problem seems to have solved itself. On my last two rides, the Quark power meter and Kickr watt readings have been withing 1-3 Watts.
Items I did do – not sure if any or all helped solved the issue:
1. I used the Wahoo Utility to calibrate the Kickr (rather than the Cycelops Virtual Training)
2. Before each ride, I calibrated the Quark power meter using my Garmin 810 (as recommended by quark)
Or Perhaps – it takes time for the kickr to get “worked-in?”
Either way – the Kickr appears to be giving me consistent readings to the Quark power meter.
However, one item for the Wahoo software team It looks like the algorithm used to control the brake is lopsided. If I set the power to 250W – the pattern is 245, 247, 249, 251… 243, 246, 248, 252 .. 245, … it seems that there are always 2-3X as many under numbers and as soon as there is one over number the brake immediately cuts the resistance (and then builds up to the set point and then cuts immediately.) As such, the average will always be a few watts under the set amount. So – when I set watts to 250 I land up with an average always under the 250 (usually by 2-3W). Suggest they equalize the algorithm so that their is a set point overage differential equal to the amount resistance cut-amount.
Thanks for the follow-up. I’ll try calibrating the Kickr with the Wahoo app rather than using the TrainerRoad in-app calibration and see if that changes my results. I have logged about 110 hours on my Kickr so I’m not sure it’s an issue of needing to be “worked-in”.
“The watts difference problem seems to have solved itself”
You got me curious. In case you have PC is there any chance you can try calibration with our software and see if there are any difference? http://veloreality.com
Hi! So far I love my Wahoo Kickr and have been using TrainerRoad. My questions is how you used your Garmin 810 to pick up your Quarq power meter. With the bike being on the Kickr, I have no speed pick-up, and can’t seem to get my Garmin to pick-up power from the Quarq. Just wanted to compare the power readings if possible.
Thanks, Jen
You can switch back and forth between bikes on the 810, so you setup a ‘bike’ for the KICKR, and a ‘bike’ for the Quarq.
If you use the Quarq, you won’t get speed from the KICKR. This is because today in the ANT+ stream the speed channel comes from the power meter device profile (KICKR). And you can’t concurrently pair two power meters on the Edge.
Wahoo has stated they’re looking to do some work in that area so that folks could use their own PM + the KICKR speed. And variations thereof with repeating. They haven’t identified a timeline for that though.
I do have a pc w/ant+ (use it w/cycleops virtual training and a cycleops 400) i will download veloreality (I think you are in Toronto as well?) and give it a try this weekend. I looked at some of your quick start guides and screen shots and your software definitely looks best in class. Do you have any plans to port to iPad (much easier form factor for riding than booting up windows and hoping everything connects.)
Hi David. Are you in Toronto? If yes then any chance you give me a call (416) 888-4314. I would want to take an opportunity and arrange a training session on Lynx for you. Try it and see what you say ;)
As for iPad:
1) At some point we definitely will do something about mobile market but straight port is not possible. Our desktop software relies on high performance hardware. iPad simply does not have enough juice to do what we do now. Our software is evolving fast and we have some very exciting interactive and augmented 3D features coming which in combination with large very high quality videos will easily choke any mobile device. Well over the time the power of those devices will grow so we’ll se what happens. One of our customers reported that the software ran fine his Window Surface Pro tablet.
2). Hope that everything connects. Well frankly this is not the experience we have. It is the easiest to use software on a market that is portable and requires no installation and unless you have hardware problem you can be up and running mere seconds after downloading our software and hooking it up to KICKR.
3) Form factor. I think that you’re right and you are wrong at the same time, If you consider iPhone/iPad as a glorified bike computer that shows you some real time numbers and graphs then you are 100% correct. And because of that everyone and a dog now makes some sport/cycling software that shows some numbers for mobiles. Is there any point for us to make another app like that? We are targeting premium market instead. People who appreciate quality. Look at our video offerings and the Lynx trainer. But playing VERY high quality panoramic videos soon with 3D content on tiny screen makes very little sense.
Yes – in toronto. I will reach out to you via your website (I registered earlier). Not sure that I need another trainer (have three at the moment – computrainer, cycleops 400, and a kickr).
1. Yes – I too am in software and understand well the differences between a PC and a iPad. However, the market is shifting very quickly towards tablets. Most users are prepared for a lighter experience and the iPad’s 64 bit A7 is quite a powerful chip and the device has been designed for HD media. Obviously, you have to design the UX differently and have to less on the screen.
2. Connectivity – I haven’t tried the ant+ key for the ipad yet but the iPad’s bluetooth connectivity w/the kickr is 100X better than my notebook’s ant+ connectivity to the my cycleops. I suspect that BT is a more reliable and richer protocol.
3. Form factor / target market … i train w/a bunch of buddies. All in your target market (three of us just got kickrs) – and we all only use iPads. Reality is if you are doing a hill climb after a few minutes the only thing you focus on is the elevation profile particularly the next few hundred meters. The videos are nice but I would encourage you to do a control test of observing users are a survey monkey poll. Me personally – i would forgo the video and be happy w/a google map course w/gradients that don’t fluctuate widely (4% to 18% in five meters.)
4. iPad vs PC – the advantages again to me are (1) time to get going, (2) ability to interact w/the application easily (using a mouse or a keyboard while pushing 300W is somewhat of a challenge), (3) setup – don’t need a screen, table, etc – just a tacx tablet mount for your bars, etc.
5. Software market in general. Apps are becoming somewhat commodity. Too easy to create/clone ideas. However, I see real value in your video content and quality of your rides. Your catalogue seems to be ahead of the cycleops, kinomaps, etc. I would gladly pay a subscription for quality rides.
Happy to chat – you can also do a quick web search on me. I have been in the s/w industry for a long time ..
1) As I said I am watching it closely (mobile market) and will do something about it when the time is right. But for now even with that “wonderful” 64bit chip and ability to play HD video it still does not cut what I want to do. There is a big difference between simply playing HD video and doing what I do/want to do in a nearest future but I do not want to bore readers with low level techie stuff.
3) There is no market for me in Google Earth. As I said everyone and my dog makes apps for that. We will offer it as an option in our software though.
4) Try riding our videos not just to waste some joules but with the big TV or projector. In combination with Lynx, good fan and music blasting you’re just there. You’ve god beautiful panoramic view and Lynx does proper physics of cycling down to a fraction of pedal stroke. As I said I am not really pushing you to buy it but I definitely want you to try it. That 15% hill feels exactly like 15% hill in real life on Lynx and on KICKR it is totally different feeling. There is no trainer on the market that can accurately model all forces the way Lynx does. So basically I do in my cave what I do in a summer and have lots of fun.
5) It depends on one’s setup. Time to get going on PC for me personally is zero. I have trainer behind my work chair and big 30″ monitor, fan and speakers right in front of me. All I have to do is push that chair away put on my cycling clothes on and off I go. link to exsotron.com
6) I somewhat agree to this statement but I will definitely try to make our offerings a bit above commodity. See I do not want to serve burgers but will try to make nice meal instead. May be we will succeed may be not but at least we are doing what we love. We have barely started and with no real advertising but already have good deal of customers (the majority are being KICKR owners ;) ).
Kostya – I have to agree with you. Working out on an indoor trainer (Kickr for me) is so much better watching your fantastic Veloreality videos on a wide screen monitor. Much more enjoyable than just watching numbers on a small iPad screen. The Veloreality videos are the best available, hands down. Consistently beautiful weather in famous locations makes the riding breathtaking and the time fly by. Very addictive. Thank you!
Hey you all.
I have now had my Kickr for two month and I love it. I have been using it with my iPad and kinomap. At first I had some problems with the Kickr not changing the resistance when the kinomap route changed the slope. After talking to wahoo I updated my dongle and turned my iPad upside down in my tacx holder (so the dongle is pointing up) for better reception, and so far it seems to work.
One thing that annoys me though, is the upload from kinomap. I have direct upload to runkeeper but then the distance gets all wrong. Then I have tried to email my self and upload the gpx to RK. Still no success.
Now I email my self and upload to Strava, either the gpx or the tcx file and then sync via tapirik to RK. Then the distance is ok but the elevations getting way to high. Finally I have to make my route private on Strava, so the segments dossent interfear with those who did their ride in real life.
Now please tell me. Do I upload my activity all wrong or do I just need another setup?
On the close I can tell that I have plans on trying the Virtualtraining next.
As I posted here before , I had problems with constant drop of power and also fluctuation of power readings. I have received new Kickr and issue is not present any more.
Many thanks to Jonathan Vejjajiva (Wahoo Fitness Support) and also Megan Powers (Customer Service Manager).
So , this post is to give big PLUS to Wahoo support.
I was lucky enough to get one of the original batch back in March 2013 through Clever Training. Unfortunately after months of solid use it developed a bearing issue manifested as a loud graunching noise whenever it was used. Wahoo very quickly sent me a replacement part and a link to a very helpful video and I was back up and running in a few days. A few months later and the noise was back but Wahoo had no hesitation in swapping the KICKR for a brand new machine. Problem solved and it has worked perfectly ever since.
The KICKR is so good my wife bought hers from Apple in the UK but her first unit was DOA – impossible to calibrate as the resistance was so high. Again within a couple of days this had been replaced and this time all appeared well. She controlled her device through Wahoo Fitness app (Bluetooth) but I noticed her power data was very noisy when viewed on Trainerroad.com or Garmin (i.e. looking at data through ANT+). Jonathan at Wahoo very quickly sent out a replacement part but this didn’t sort out the ‘spiky’ data. We’ve just received the replacement KICKR and it works perfectly.
So, we’ve had a few problems with our units but I would still, wholeheartedly and without hesitation, recommend this device. The KICKR is absolutely brilliant to use especially with trainerroad.com and The Sufferfest videos – it turns what could be a potentially boring session into a fun-filled sweat-fest!
The service has been exemplary. Sure, we’ve had issues but the team at Wahoo (Jonathan Vejjajiva and Brad – top guys!) have been brilliant. Sometimes s**t happens but Wahoo have dealt with this very professionally and sorted us out as quickly as they could.
If you are still pondering the purchase of a KICKR and are a little concerned, I would honestly say just do it – the unit is so good you can forgive any teething problems you may encounter and I have rarely dealt with a company who has such good customer service – they are obviously passionate about their products and it shows.
Many thanks to all those at Wahoo and to DC Rainmaker for an absolutely amazing site!
drgav2005 – What was the part you had to replace in your Kickr? How did the defective part make noise? I am curious to know what is considered a normal amount of noise for the Kickr and what is considered abnormal. Thanks for your comments.
Here is a video highlighting the noise the bearings were making: link to youtube.com
Wahoo sent me a new bearing and a link to a video for the repair. Once swapped over, the KICKR was pretty much silky smooth and very quiet – none of the cracking noises you hear on my video! I think this was an issue with the daly batch of KICKRs – I haven’t experienced any noise issues on any of the replacement devices.
Here is a video highlighting the noise the bearings were making: link to youtube.com
Wahoo very quickly sent me a new bearing (i.e. the big black disc with Wahoo on it) and a link to a video for the repair. Once swapped over, the KICKR was pretty much silky smooth and very quiet – none of the cracking noises you hear on my video! I think this was an issue with the early batch of KICKRs – I haven’t experienced any noise issues on any of the replacement devices… well, apart from me when I’m suffering!
If the Kickr is set up on mats where there is some give (I’m imagining getting out of the saddle and the base sinking slightly into the mat) will the power readings be off?
Bought the Kickr some months ago, and love it so far. But yesterday after a while, the wahoo Fitness app stoped reciving siganls from the Garmin Cadence and the Garmin HR. The batteries in both Devices are New. Do somebody have an solution?
Purchased the Kickr based on your recommendation!
Couple of things I noticed:
– The flywheel seems to make a high pitched hum while spinning – not sure if this is normal?
– My Blue SC does not pick up using trainerroad, so it doesnt register cadence- have you seen any issues like this?
You’ll have a slightly higher pitched noise with the KICKR, that’s a bit normal. You can lower your speed by changing gears, which will reduce the high-pitch a bit (of course, that’s in ERG mode, it depends on what mode you’re in).
For the Blue SC, assuming the lights are flashing, TR should pick it up depending on the operating system and whether or not it supports Bluetooth Smart.
So which trainer is recommended if what i need is the following:
1. Be able to mark a route on google earth and see the movement on the marked route on a big TV screen while I train.
2. Realistic feel while training especially on downhills.
3. Reliable with ability to use iPhone or android devices to monitor training data.
then read the whole thread above this post and you will find many answers.
1: A trainer that can use e.g. CylceOps Virtual Training software – think ahaed and get one using an open ANT+ profile
2: …downhill on a trainer is saving legs/wasting time/watching a movie like Google Earth. Fast forward!
3: TrainingPeaks.com/GarminConnect data can be seen on Iphone and Android after training data has been uploaded. Maybe you are asking for a trainer that has controling software that runs on both platforms…
I am using Wahoo/TrainerRoad/GoldenCheeta for my purpose.
Good luck hunting :-)
Welcome to DCRainmaker.com
The plug would ideally have a 5a fuse. The majority of plugs we’ve found are rated at 1a. Here’s one of the few that we have found rated for the proper amperage: link to grainger.com
I found out the plug is 5.5mm OD x 2.5mm ID. Found one at Radio Shack. Now just need to solder it to about 20′ of 16awg 2 conductor wire and then solder the other end to a cigarette lighter adapter.
Just check that the adapter doesn’t have its own fuse. You also need to check the cars fuse box and make sure it is fitted with a 5A fuse for the cigarette lighter.
Alternatively, a small SLA battery can work well. I build a few of these setups for Team Sky.
I bought the Kickr for myself with a Black Friday discount (thank you DC for the heads up) and love it. “It just works”. I use it with trainer road/sufferfest workouts and couldn’t be happier. The erg mode takes all the thinking out of the equation and allows me to dial in my cadence and suffer. I also use the virtual trainer software for zone 2/3 rides and long climbs. The strava app needs some work in my opinion so I haven’t used it that much even though I payed the $30 for the app. DC’s review was spot on and I’m glad I went with the Kickr versus the cyclops.
I purchased my Kickr in August 2013 and it’s been terrific out of the box, not a single issue. Currently I use Trainer Road and Virtual Training and couldn’t be happier with both. Recently I tried using Veloreality, but had issues with varying power and cutting out. I would assume it was the software since there were no issues with either TR or Virtual Training.
At times I wish the accuracy and repeatability could be verified. I calibrate once every 2 weeks using a 10 minute warmup cycle followed by the spin down using Wahoo Utility app. Just curious if these calibration numbers fall into the same spec as other users.
Kicker Calibration
Spindown time: 26.261
Temperature: 27.87
Offset: 450
Overall I highly recommend the Kickr. So far I’ve used KK Road Machine, Cycle Ops Powerbeam, and currently still use Emotion rollers. Kickr is by far the one that gets the most usage.
1) We reduced rate of transmissions from ANT+ stick to KICKR following recommendation from Wahoo since it was interfering with reception of signals from sensors. You can try latest version and see if it works for you.
2) We had another customer with the same problem (signal drops on KICKR). There is acknowledged bug in KICKR’s firmware which might show up when another ANT+ receiver (Garmin Edge for example) is running in parallel with ANT+ stick. The advice from Wahoo was not to turn on any extra ANT+ receivers. Personally I do not have this problem even though I run Edge 705 in parallel.
Also between 2 sticks ANT+ USB2 and ANT USB-m stick the last one handles transmission/reception way better. Basically the customer turned off his Garmin 800 he was running in parallel and replaced ANT USB2 stick with ANT USB-m. Now he says there are no more problems.
1. If the download you have on your site is the most recent update, that’s the one I have.
2.Currently I don’t run my Garmin when using TR. I have both the Garmin and Suunto USB sticks, and neither one will work. Maybe I’ll look into the USB-m and see if that resolved any of my issues.
Veloreality has some of the most scenic HD videos. Hopefully I could resolve the issues and purchase the videos. BTW, I used both Demo 1 and 2 videos.
Regarding spindown offset in TrainerRoad, what values do you have, if somebody want to share please ?
On my first malfunctioned Kickr , I had around 500 (only sporadically I can execute spindown due to problems fluctuating power) and now on my new one I constantly receive value around 1300 and Kickr is working fine.
This is definately not a silly question, for now it is just a wish for the future.
12X142mm has become THE standard for mountain bikes, so I also wish the KICKR hub could have replaceable end caps. Replaceable end caps are seen on most hub manufactors now, and in this way all types of bikes would be supported.
Thanks for pointing this out. I believe the adapters are in stock in Europe but they must not be live on the website yet. I will work with our IT team to get this resolved ASAP. Once available, you will be able to find the kit on the “Accessories” page: link to eu.wahoofitness.com
Had my first KICKR sent back to Wahoo because it never measured speed and power correctly even after I made a tricky “repair” with parts sent by Wahoo…
Now I have a new device. Same thing: No speed measurement with any App. I’m frustrated. Did anybody experience the same?
Not exactly the same but my first unit was a dud, tried everything to get it displaying speed and power correctly but nothing worked. Sounds like you have a second bad unit because once you get a good one they just work out of the box. (My replacement unit was a good one). Get yourself another unit, it’s worth the wait.
Unless it’s a shipping issue, it surprises me that these units are not quality tested at the factory as reading around the web dud units ‘seem’ quite common. I guess that ratio depends on how many units they actually ship though so it could just be a very small percentage.
I am having trouble getting speed data as well. My kickr shows it’s paired but when pedaling no speed data shown. Just got my kickr a few weeks ago and was trying it out for the first time today and very disappointed that it didn’t work out after following step by step instructions how to properly install and pair up devices.
I have contacted the Wahoo support several times. The guys at Wahoo are very friendly, competent and the response times are fast. Actually I tried everything they suggested – but it’s of no use. There seem to be some units with misplaced / misaligned sensors.
This is what the Wahoo support told me:
»We have identified a manufacturing issue with the spacing of the KICKR’s optical speed sensor that affects speed/power readings. We have developed a fairly simple fix. We will express ship the kit to you.«
I installed the kit. But it did not solve the problem. The speed measurement was still not accurate enough for even do a spin down…
Would it be a reasonable assumption to make that the power data from the Kickr would most resemble a Powertap, because they are both read at the same point (versus a crank or pedal based reading)?
Wahoo Brad or Murray – Could you please explain the meaning of the spindown time and the offset. These numbers seem to vary, especially the offset. Is a higher or lower value better? Do these numbers change over time with more use of the Kickr? Thanks.
The offset is just a factory setting, its basically a mid-point. Any value is fine.
The spin down is the time it takes for the flywheel to slow down from one speed to another without any additional input. In other words its the natural resistance on the KICKR with the electric break turned off. Things like bearing, bolts and tension on the belt can alter this value. Its normally around 25 seconds, but neither higher or lower is better.
Your time might change over time, we normally recommend a spin down every 2 weeks or if you move the KICKR.
Just wanted to add a little to what Murray said about the offset. When we get an offset value we’re essentially “zeroing” the KICKR strain gauge. Just like you would do on a scale or set of calipers. The specific number you get is irrelevant.
I used a trainer many years ago and couldn’t stand it for all kinds of reasons, but come December in England I knew if I wanted to ride La Marmotte well I would have to train through the winter months and remain motivated. Came on here and I read the reviews and the comments. The Wahoo Kickr seemed to be what I always wanted, but I was nervous at the expense, and also the problems people had with it. In the end I decided that it was what I needed and surely I wouldn’t get one that didn’t work. Unfortunately I was; couldn’t get it to work at all, couldn’t get any power measurements, etc. Contacted Wahoo who were were very good and made a few suggestions and sent me some new parts. Unfortunately they didn’t solve the problem, so sent it back to Apple for a replacement. Fast forward two and a half months and its been perfect, seen the leap in fitness, remain highly motivated, and enjoyed Trainerroad, Sufferfest, etc. Its a great product and despite the hefty price I think worth every penny.
Hi everyone. Can anyone guide me to the correct/optimal setup. Currently I am running: 1. Garmin vector pedals, 2. Trainerroad, 3. Garmin 510 head unit, 4. Garmin HR monitor and 5. KICKR. I have the KICKR being paired to trainer road via BT, power from ‘use power from electronic trainer’, HR monitor ANT+, Cadence ANT+ (i.e. comes from my vector pedals), and speed comes from KICKR (although I don’t place much stock in the value given I am training with power. So far the trainer road workouts (on ERG) have been smooth and without problems (after swapping in a new sensor) however, my Edge 510 is turned of as is the WAHOO app as they were mixing each other up previously. Because I am not using my vector pedals as the power source I am also not get the left right balance data or total pedal strokes during a workout when I upload my data to garmin connect (from trainer road). Does KICKR operate in ERG mode best when using its own power versus using pedal and can anyone recommend a better/optimal setup? Thanks
The Kickr cannot be controlled by external power meters at this time, but they’ve told me they are working on adding this functionality in a future firmware update. If you deselect “use power from electronic trainer” you should be able to pair your Vectors to Trainer Road using ANT+ (I’m able to do this with my SRM meter). The power displayed and recorded in TrainerRoad will then be from your Vectors and not the Kickr. The Kickr, however, will still “follow” its own internal power measurements. If TrainerRoad is set at 250 watts in erg mode, the Kickr will make you produce 250 watts based on what the Kickr says is 250 watts, not what your Vectors consider 250 watts to be. If you’re lucky, those two measurements won’t be too far off. In my case, my Kickr reads 15-30 watts higher than my SRM or Stages power meters after calibration.
I’m not certain if TrainerRoad will the record left/right balance from your Vectors. My guess is no, but I could be wrong. In that case, you would want to also enable your Garmin to record that data via ANT+. I’ve been able to use my Garmin in a similar setup without any interference problems (keep the Wahoo App off and don’t have any other devices trying to connect to the Kickr). I haven’t been able to get the Kickr to broadcast its speed to the Garmin this way, though, which makes the ride data from the Garmin unsuitable for uploading to Strava. This may because Wahoo are still working on getting the newest ANT+ specification into the firmware that would allow this. If anyone has any further insight about all this, I’d also like to hear from them here.
Thanks for this. I have been using my Trainerroad data to upload to strava and garmin connect. The speed is still useless as I am spinning in the granny gear (to keep the noise level to a minimum)…i.e. I did a Z2 ride on Sunday at 160 watts which translated into only 20km/h.
No problem. Also, if you’re in erg mode, you can change your gearing to get a more accurate speed. The lower the gear, the slower the speed. The higher, the faster. Since you don’t need to shift in erg mode, pick a gear that seems right speed-wise and keep it there throughout the workout. The Kickr will keep the wattage at the correct level regardless of your cadence/speed. Sounds like you may need to go to a higher gear which will also give the Kickr a more realistic and smoother feel as the flywheel will spin faster.
Yeah, I could do that however, with a family usually sleeping when I do my workouts (either pm during week or early-am on weekends), keeping it in the granny gears really cuts down on the noise (I was able to almost hear 100% a movie completely on my laptop with weak speakers).
We’re working on adding a “virtual speed” which will back-calculate your speed for a given power output. This will allow you to better track your erg workouts and compare to real world rides.
That would be awesome and a great way to record approximate kms. Key when living in Montreal as we have yet been able to get on the road yet due to late spring.
It would be quite simple to use TrainerRaod and still have the ability to analyze the L/R from your Vector pedals. Just pair your Vectors to your Edge 510. Then have TrainerRoad pair with HR and KICKR only. That’s it.
I run a similar set up:
Power2Max power meter paired to Garmin 500 via ANT +. Then have Garmin HR, GSC-10, and KICKR paired to TrainerRoad via ANT + on laptop via Suunto Movestick Mini…technically both the GSC-10 and HR are paired to both the Edge 500 and TrainerRoad with no interference issues.
KICKR displays power in TrainerRoad and controls the entire workout in ERG mode. The Edge 500 displays power from Power2Max and can upload to Garmin Connect for L/R balance viewing etc.
The best part is this setup allows you to compare your power meter to the KICKR….after the 10 minute warm-up and re-calibration during any given workout.…my 2 devices are within 1-2 watts for the remainder of the workout.
I think key in this instance is keeping the WAHOO app off which seems to run interference with my setup. Over the weekend I was setting up for a ride on my KICKR and TR. I had my head unit paired to my vector pedals and HRM and KIKCR paired to TR via Ant+. I was in ERG mode, everything working great…until I turned on the wahoo app (to record the ride as well)…I know I know there are too many recording devices (but TR is good for only indoor rides and I like my Garmin to so that I can analyze my pedal stroke metrics etc which I cannot do via the KICKR etc.). Once the wahoo app turned on…it’s like the KICKR went from ERG mode to Level 0. From now on it looks like the wahoo app will remain off, not sure of its benefits yet (very simple data, can’t save rides on cloud so if delete app you loose all your info)
Derek, you can do this now with the equipment you have. Set up TrainerRoad to connect to the Kickr, but to read the power from your Vectors as I explained above. Create or find a workout in TrainerRoad that keeps the power consistent over several minutes and your final graph from TrainerRoad will show the difference between your target power and actual power. Target power will represent the Kickr power and actual power will represent the Vectors. I would do a 10-15 minute warmup, calibrate the Kickr and Vector and then do a workout similar to the following for the test: 5 minutes @ 125 watts, 5 minutes @ 150 watts, 5 minutes @ 200 watts and continue that way until you reach a power you can’t hold.
Just to briefly comment on the original question about doing Vector vs KICKR power tests….
I have a ton of tests with comparison data, and I’m guessing somewhere in the Garmin Vector test data set I published (about 15-20 rides worth) there might be a KICKR one in there.
That said, I generally don’t use the KICKR for power meter testing. Not because there’s anything wrong with it, rather, simply a logistical item. With the KICKR I effectively lose a rear wheel hub, which is where I have a PowerTap. Thus, the number of concurrent power meters I can test with is minimized. I always try and have at least three power meters when doing comparison tests, in hopes that at least 2 out of 3 agree.
So, a typical test would be:
CompuTrainer with TrainerRoad for ANT+ broadcasting of power
Quarq Elsa spider-based power meter
Garmin Vector pedal-based power meter
Stages crank-arm based power meter
PowerTap rear wheel based power meter
Right now, one of my bikes is:
CompuTrainer with TrainerRoad for ANT+ broadcasting of power
ROTOR Power crank-arm based power meter
Garmin Vector pedal-based power meter
PowerTap rear wheel based power meter
Just to give a bit of insight on why I do what I do…
Thanks Rainmaker, what I was getting at was I was wondering how accurate the KICKR power output is relative to my Garmin Vector. I just wanted to make sure that I was 1. Training at the right FTP and 2. Hopefully when springs arrives (there’s still snow on the ground here in Montreal) my power #’s I am getting on my KICKR will be relatively close to the ones I get once I am on the road.
I got the Vector 2 weeks ago and have had the Kickr since last summer. Taking me a little time to nail down the calibration, but I think I finally got it after I bought a torque wrench and the crowbar adaptor. I did a 30 min ERG only workout going from 120, 140, 160, 180, 200 watts. My Vector measured 5 watts or less in all cases. However, I forgot to do a spindown on the Kickr so not a perfect test. I’ll try again next week.
Is there a recommendation regarding the use of a Bluetooth heart monitor versus Ant+?
I have a garmin with a HR monitor but I would need to buy an Ant+ adaptor and a 30 pin to light speed adapters for my IPad Air. I don’t see enough upside given the added cost for the 2 adapters. I am interested in any advice on this issue.
TICKR has an estimated 1200 hour “active” run time (connected to an app and broadcasting heart rate). The sleep current for the TICKR is insanely low. It’s likely the battery will naturally degrade faster than the TICKR can drain it while the TICKR is “asleep”.
Ray – thanks so much for this. I got a KICKR, and basically knew just what to do thanks to all the work you put into this. I am settling on TrainerRoad.com, and so far am really happy with it. Just need to get used to the whole erg approach, which I totally get your point on about being a great (if not the best) way to train.
One thing to share – I have a 2013 Madone 4.5, and the skewer that came with the KICKR just wouldn’t work for me. I don’t know if I’m just a moron, but I couldn’t get the bike to stay locked in. I used the skewer from my bike, and it works fine on the first try. Just curious if you or others had any issues with the Wahoo-supplied skewer, and if you have any tips.
I think I’ll go buy a second skewer rather than risk my only one unless there’s some trick to the Wahoo skewer.
I’m definitely curious to learn more about your issues with the quick release. Would you mind shooting our support team an email? I’d like to get your QR skewer back to the office so we can make sure there are no issues and also offer to send a replacement if you’d like.
Can you comment on this excerpt form a review you did? Wahoo has said there is no such capability. Is it on the near term horizon? I can’t get a response,,
As an interesting aside, on the Wahoo KICKR front, they will be releasing a firmware update to the KICKR that will enable it to act like a ANT+ to BLE bridge (like the RFLKT+). This will allow you to use existing ANT+ cadence sensors (or even ANT+ HR straps) with Bluetooth Smart devices (such as iPads or iPhones) without a separate adapter. Wahoo doesn’t yet have a timeframe for when this update will occur, but it sounded like the target was by summer at the latest.
Sorry about the confusion. There may have been a little disconnect between our customer service team and our development team. Ray usually talks with Murray or Chip and sometimes hears things before the rest of our crew knows about it! While the KICKR may not act exactly the same as the RFLKT+ ANT Bridge, we do hope to have it rebroadcast your ANT+ cadence data.
No hard date on that firmware release. Still a bit of testing and refining to do but we are shooting for a summer release date.
Ray does has the Kickr firmware being updated yet so it can be used as a ant+ BLE bridge. I can’t find any detailed info anywhere about what is included in the firmware updates. I expect a prompt reply now you’re doing this full-time ;-). Keep up the good work.
Wahoo Brad, when can we expect a firmware update to add the ability for the Kickr to be controlled by an external power meter? Or, how about a simple trim adjustment to increase or decrease the Kickr’s power response? I’ve actually figured out a way to do this now, but it takes a bit of fussing to get just right.
Here’s what I do. My Kickr always reads about 25 watts higher than my SRM or Stages meters. I figured that if I could manipulate the spindown, I could fix the discrepancy. So, when the Kickr is spinning down I pedal a bit to increase the spindown time to about 33 seconds (from its usual 20 or so seconds). The result is a Kickr that matches my power meters very closely. I’ve used the Kickr for a few rides this way and it works great. Wish I had figured this out sooner.
Naturally, though, my preference would be to have the Kickr just use the external power meter. Or, at least, a simpler, more direct way to increase or decrease the Kickr’s power response. I hear the former is in the works, but when will it be available to us?
Chris are you still using the KICKR in ERG mode after doing the spindown? I may give this a try as it would solve my issues with not getting all the power data/spin analysis (i.e. L/R balance etc.) available to me through my vector pedals (which is the reason i bought them in the first place). Loving the KICKR beside that when paired to TR
Derek, I’m using the Kickr in erg mode for TrainerRoad workouts. I also use it in slope mode when using VirtualTrainer for less structured VR rides. Either way, once I do the spindown this way, the Kickr will hold the adjusted spindown number until I do another one, regardless of what software or mode I use.
My plan is to leave it as is and not do another spindown w/pedaling unless the Kickr starts to drift from my SRM. Right now, I’m getting average power numbers that are only -2 from the target power in TrainerRoad when reading from the SRM meter. So the Kickr is tracking the SRM very well with the manipulated spindown and now my indoor and outdoor power numbers are “apples to apples.”
Also Derek, have you established through testing that your Vectors and Kickr don’t closely match power-wise? If not, I wouldn’t suggest you do the manipulated spindown or try to match my numbers. That’s something I had to do for my setup, but it’s unlikely the same will work for yours. Every Kickr’s spindown numbers are likely to be different for one, and secondly, some Kickr’s seem to be very accurate. DC’s tests, for example, show that his Kickr matches his power meters very well using the standard spindown.
After last night’s ride, I am pretty convinced however that the power issue does not lie with the KICKR but with the Vector Pedals. I am beginning to think my mechanic didn’t torque them sufficiently after bring my bike in for its yearly stripdown.
Fwiw…the vast majority of shops don’t do it correctly. The number of times folks e-mail and their shop said “We tightened them enough and didn’t need a torque wrench”, I want to take the torque and use it for something else…
I had the same issue w/Kickr reading 20W higher than my Quark. I was able to solve by doing the calibration using the Wahoo App instead of using VirtualTraining spin down. My watts are now within 2-3 of the powermeter. I suspect something might be off in either the API for calibration or the software vendors implementation of the API.
Hi,
Trying to use my KICKR via Golden Cheetah and it isn’t showing on the Add device wizard (has add ANT+, computrainer and tacx). I thought that with Bluetooth 4.0 on my near new iMac (<1 year old) this would be the right form of bluetooth. Is that not the case and if so do I need to buy the dongle as per above? (don't want to buy to only find it is some setting I haven't configured.
Cheers.
Hey Emlyn,
I thought the same (that it should work out of the box) but as it turns out, the Golden Cheetah developers had some issues with Bluetooth 4.1 support, canceled it and are now focusing to release versions with ANT+ support in the next months: link to groups.google.com|sort:date|spell:false/golden-cheetah-users/CoTfMGqQIIk/AzKa714FqCoJ
So in short: no, there is no Kickr support on OS X with Bluetooth only. There are some links of old developer versions with built-in Kickr support floating around the internet, but so far all I found are dead links. I use Trainerroad now for training, Golden Cheetah for analysis only.
hello ray , i jave a quick question do you have a good contact a wahho i orderd yesterday a wahoo kickr with 24 h shipping, because i live in brazil and have someone in the us this week and he is willing to bring it with him. so bought payed the extra 150 us for shipmemt, and guess what today i got an email saying they will ship in about 4 weeks , no message at all on the website when i bought it, i realy would like to have it but i need it by friday at the expected adress…if not its to late, and even if they decide to refound me it stIl wil cost me 6% of the total value , this is what brazilian goverment charge you if you pay outside of brazil something with your credit crad..
There is something I don’t get about the robustness of the KICKR: most people say that it is a sturdy device, however when I look at it I see that the whole weight is supported by that thin blue “arm” used to adapt the trainer to the size of the bike/wheel. Is that blue thingy that robust ?
I’ve noticed strange “speed” data from my Kickr. TrainerRoad controls my Kickr beautifully via ANT+. And I capture power, cadence, HR on my Garmin 910XT and via TrainerRoad.
On an easy recovery ride on my new Kickr (calibrated just before), I was at 150 watts at 90rpm. And it was reporting 28mph. This is too fast. Is there a CdA or other setting that would adjust speed at a given power?
Then, just for fun, I slowed to 80rpm, staying at 150W. The reported speed fell to about 25mph. Why would that be? Same wattage.
Then for the last 10 mins, I was at a silly wattage of just 102 watts, at 85 rpm. And the speed was reported to be 32 mph! What the heck.
I’m a new Kickr user, so I must have something misconfigured.
You should not be looking at speed as the KICKR is applying the same resistance no matter what your gearing. For example, I always put it on the granny gear (makes the KICKR extremely quiet) and even when I am pushing out 300 watts/95-100 rpms my speed registers no higher than 23-25km/h. I believe wahoo said they are working on a firmware update that will give you a better approximate speed. For now I would suggest that you put it on a gear that best represents your speed/wattage. But again, for example I was riding outside on the weekend extremely windy conditions, at times I was pushing 250ish watts and traveling 25 km/h, but then with a little tail wind, wattage drops way down and I was going 40km/h. So the power is only there to tell you how hard you are working, not how fast you are going. Hope this helps. I am a newbies (2 years) to the sport so if anyone notices some inaccuracies, please correct me so I also know in the future.
Is it possible to perform a RAMP test using this system? So… for the unit to automatically increase the required wattage by 10w each min for a given cadence? Looking at the info posted here it would seem that in theory this would be done using the ‘erg’ mode.
Anyone got any experiences using a stages power meter and Garmin Edge 510 to measure heart, speed, cadence and power as opposed to using anything from the Kickr itself?
I’d rather have my usual setup for recording this data so it’s consistent when on the road.
At present, the KICKR doesn’t broadcast the speed independently as an ANT+ speed source. So while you can definitely pair to the Stages PM and use it indoors, you won’t get any speed from the trainer (which, honestly, doesn’t much matter from a training standpoint indoors).
Is there anything new to know about the kickr, any new updates coming down the pipeline I should wait for before I buy one? I broke my fluid 2 this morning after 8 years, so sad.
Nothing new noted. I would expect that like other Wahoo products, you’ll see software updates to add new functionality (such as the long talked about ‘bridge’ mode, like the RFLKT+).
Very helpful article Ray thanks. Any new apps released where you can load a gpx file, for example an IM course and ride it on the Kickr whilst it adjusts to the course profile. Just ordered one.
Has anyone sourced a suitable lead to use from a car cigarette lighter to power the unit? I’ve seen references to them but cannot find them on wahoo site and i’m not sure of the exact size of the piece that plugs into the trainer.
Wahoo Fitness recommends the adapter have an in-line fuse of at least 3 amperes. The Bell Automotive 22-1-39063-8 Universal Radar Detector Power Cord Adapter Kit has the correct plug and a 5 ampere in-line fuse.
Stoked that my wife bought me this for my birthday!
Set it up and ready to go…. ALAS it does not connect to any of my devices using any software. Wahoo Fitness app – nothing. Wahoo Utility – nothing. Trainerroad – nothing.
Neither ANT+ or Bluetooth seems to connect.
Have emailed support and company purchased off, but considering the potential time for a response, ANYONE have any suggestions?
Have you resolved this problem? I’m experiencing the same thing. My KICKR was working just the other day and now it cannot be detected at all by any of my devices.
Please can you help us. We are a couple of friends who bought this trainer. We also bought new I-pads and also the sufferfest vids and the cadence and HR monitors. This project has cost us a lot of money.
The problem now is that we do not have a working app for the I-pads in which we can combine the ERG files and the sufferfest vids. We have to adjust manually which kind of sucks and defies the whole point of spending so much money.
Is there any existing I-pad application that I can import the sufferfest ERG files into that will allow me to ride and also plan training like trainerroad does for android?
We have limited bandwidth so kinomaps etc is out. We live in South Africa.
I was using very heavily this particular carbon Specialized Tarmac on Lynx trainer for more than 3 years. No problems so far. Of course during summer bike rides outside ;) Granted the mount type is different than the one used for KICKR. Here is the pic:
No issues. There’s some comments far above about it as well, and I’ve confirmed it with a handful of major frame manufacturers as well.
Finally, keep in mind that every Pro Team is riding trainers outside their RV’s at every race. Given the bike companies are sponsors, if this was an issue it would have been stopped long ago…
Hi Ray
You confirmed with these manufacturers about Carbon frames only, or did you confirm that also the Aluminium frames are not endangered when ridden on trainers ? Because for instance there is Felt who says something about this (although they mention Carbon seatstays with Alu dropouts, not 100% Alu frames. Also, the Lynx trainer picture that Kostya posted above shows a type of trainer which does not seem to put stress on the seatstays (where most of the bodyweight falls because of push on the pedals), but on the fork, and even there a large part of the stress seems diminished because the body of the frame can “flap” sideways (the seatstays not being held by the trainer).
Best regards,
Mihai
I recently purchased the Wahoo Kickr trainer and I have a question about how the ERG mode works (especially with TrainerRoad). It seems when a certain power level is set I have to pedal at a very high cadence to keep it. The issue I am seeing is that once I hit a certain speed and cadence there is no pressure being applied to the chain since its moving too fast. Is it correct to then slow down a little so more pressure can be applied to the chain? I would figure that the Kickr would adjust the resistance of the trainer so it would be harder for me to pedal therefore keeping pressure on the chain. It may be that I need to get used to how the trainer works, im just trying to better understand how its supposed to work.
I am not exactly sure, my cadence usually comes from my PowerTap. I know its the highest cadence I have ever done, I start to shift from side to side to keep up to pedaling. I have a cadence sensor on its way so I can measure it. The bike is in the hardest gear and the Wahoo Kickr is reporting that I am going 35 MPH, that seems like a really high speed, but since I am new to the Kickr that could be a normal speed.
It depends a bit on how high a cadence we’re talking. i.e. if we’re looking at 150RPM or higher, sometimes the slight surges in power you’ll see trainers ‘slack’ for a sub-second or so.
It sounds to me it might just need a spin down. When in ERG Mode it will hold the same power output at and cadence/speed, you just pedal and the KICKR does all the work. If you find your are needing to spin faster to keep the power up then its not working correctly. Try a spin down and if not please email our support and one of our team will help you sort it out.
I have done alot of research regarding bike trainers and I came to a conclusion that the Wahoo Kickr is what I want most.
HOWEVER, it is still NOT available outside US/EU. I live in Hong Kong and see that Wahoo has a warehouse here also but I cannot find a dealer or anywhere that I can buy one.
Summer is here and I really need a trainer. Can you please tell me where I can buy one with the Campy Kit also? Otherwise I may have to revert to bkool which looks second best to me.
Do I need to buy a wahoo blue SC to be able to see my cadence whilst using wahoo kickr?
I’m no techo geek but as there will be wheel on the back therefore no magnet will it still show cadence?
As I have also seen the CADENCE ONLY sensor with no magnets, when will this be back in stock?
I ended up buying the BKOOL Trainer from a local dealer. So Far I am loving it. Great Package for the Great Price! Easy to Setup and Cadence/Speed Sensor all Included.
Good Luck Wahoo. Great work on global distribution like we never existed. *thumbs down*
As a newy to Kickr having changed from 10 years with CompuTrainer, two disappointments have registered straight away. I’m using it with PerfPro studio and have found that short interval sessions of 15 thru 30 seconds are now pretty ineffective as the load application is too slow and not instantaneous like the CT. The Kickr load is still on the way up when the interval has finished. So it seems to me it has training limitations unless there is a setting that can change this that I haven’t found yet..
Secondly the noise is very much louder than a CT and akin to a police siren in the not too far distance. Most unpleasant.
Do you use the small chainring or the big chainring ? I noticed if I use the big one I have more noise than of the small one and more vibration too. Otherwise on the small chainring, the noise is very low. I also put my kickr on EVA mat like this one :
Thank you both for that. The noise issue is on both chain rings but I have it mounted on an ex CT base board and wonder if it’s resonance from the vibes in that causing amplification. I will try it on concrete and see if that works.
Re the short internal matter tech support have told me that they are addressing the issue and it could be fixed in the next FW upgrade. So will have to make do until then.
I’m not too familiar with PerfPro, but in trainerroad you can choose the level of power smoothing you want (none, 3 sec, 5 sec, and 7 sec). I keep mine set to 3 seconds to smooth out a lot of the noise. What I’m not sure of is if this has some effect on how long it takes the trainer to react to intervals. With power smoothing set to 3 sec, my trainer takes 3 to 5 seconds to ramp up power. It’s not a problem, however, as you get the same lag on the back end of the interval, so it’s not like the interval is any shorter. I do 15 to 30 second micro-burst workouts all the time and it’s not a problem.
Just noticed that Wahoo now provides an option to calibrate the Kickr ($100) by using a precision weight and mounting bar. Has anyone used this accessory? Included is an iPad calibration instruction video to walk you through the process.
If the spin down test is a valid way of calibrating the Kickr, would this additional piece of hardware need to be added for increased accuracy? Since I use a Powertap G3 wheel set outside, I have no way of comparing the two. Some have suggested using 2 FTP numbers, or purchasing a Stages or SRM crank. I’m not in favor of either option.
Alan
I am curious about the calibration kit as well.
I just received my kickr and paired it with trainer road in erg mode in hopes of some accurate interval workouts. I immediately felt my cadence too high and my efforts too easy despite the power numbers. I ran spin down tests several times including when the kikr was well warmed up.
So I ran it against my srm (which had been recently calibrated) and indeed my kickr watts were reading 50-60 watts above my srm.
Wahoo support suggested I buy a calibration kit to “validate” my calibration. grrrrr!
If I do calibrate it using the bar and weight can I be certain that I will get accurate numbers? Any help?
Thinking this trainer is not for me
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So far, I’ve used my Kickr mostly in ERG mode and I really like it.
If I wanted to simply simulate a 20 mile time trial ride on a flat road with no wind, (Yeah, I know, not terribly realistic), what mode and settings are the best to use?
Thanks,
MikeE
I like the erg mode too but I find it to be more useful (along with the cadence sensor) as a school ‘marm to make sure I’m hitting the numbers.
For what you describe, I’ve been playing around with the resistance setting. It appears as if 20 or 25% seems to be the spot where the “feel” (as well as the speed and power indication) mimics a flat ride. A spindown calc once a week or so is a good idea to keep things equal for future comparisons.
The positive with this method is that I can work off heart rate, which matches a little better with my objectives during this “base period” time of the year.
Check out Sim (simulation) mode. It will allow you to set the grade, wind speed, and bike type.
Yep, I tried that before I saw your post. It works great. Love it!
We have a kickr but experience issues adding a second user. Instead of connecting automatically, the wahoo fitness app asks for a wahoo key (which was not needed or the first bike/user). How did you add the second user?
Received my Kickr from Wahoo last week. So far I’m very happy with it. After setting it up with my bike, it did make some intermittent grinding noise from the flywheel but that quickly disappeared after the calibration and with continued use. Now it is very quiet, within the limits of its mechanical nature. Have the fork of my bike attached to a Kreitler Dyno-Myte forkstand, with the wheel adjustment set to 29″, which gives great solidity of support. Am using Kinomap Trainer, Virtual Training, as well as the Wahoo Fitness app through my iPad mini with good results. Will be setting up my PC/Windows to run Veloreality videos soon. Very addictive and enjoyable.
Using kicker since November no issues until my ride this morning. Stopped showing power and the resistance is 0. Unit still shows connected to apps but no power.
What Can I try to fix it?
See comment from Brian from the 16. January.
I Think it is the same problem.
Kind ragards
Kenni
Thanks.
I just popped mine off blew on the senor to remove some dust and on the white and black disk. After I put the sensor back on It is working. Hopefully thats all it was was a little dust build up.
Thanks again
Exactly same situation as Kenny’s !!!! Riding 2 months and suddenly power goes up and down , then to 0 , then oscillate. Open Service Request with Wahoo Support but waiting days for response.
If there is anybody from Wahoo monitoring this site please help me , my request# is 79114 .
Thanks,
Alex
Check out Brian’s post from the 16. I watched the video from the link that was posted. I didn’t install a new speed sensor but I did pop mine off and blow some dust build up off and on the white and black disk.
Popped it back on and it is now reading speed and power. Hopefully that’s all it was. We’ll see how things go when I ride in the morning.
Good Luck
Kenny
Very similar issue to the last couple (#898, #910 etc.) only mid intervals on Traineroad the app was on a rest interval and detailing 92 watts however the resistance on the Kickr was still recording (and was still set to) 231 watts. Paused the session, blew off any dust on the optical sensor (per 898 above) and recalibrated – all was well for the rest of the session.
My question is this, has anyone else had this issue – I performed a spindown only last week. Its not too inconvenient to perform a spindown before starting each training session as it only takes a minute or two, but would obviously prefer not to. I’ll monitor this and see how I get on, and if it happens again I’ll raise a ticket with Wahoo – as it worked after the above I don’t feel the need to open a ticket as yet. Just looking for any feedback from other users who may have experienced the same thing.
Its an amazing piece of kit and hopefully this is just a quick glitch!
Third call and still no response from Wahoo. I finally emailed them. No one told me that I’m being forced to email Wahoo in case my product doesn’t work. Makes sense though, this way the responsible people can hide and let the support guys take the heat.
I’m wondering why no one of the Wahoo tech guys, who obviously monitor this site, have responded?
Hi Markus,
As per my response on the 15th January, I instructed you to submit a support ticket, this allows our support team to track and have the correct person respond. While I and a few of the other engineers do monitor this site we are not always the best people to help. Wahoo has a specialist support team trained to assist with KICKR support, while I consider myself a power user, I personally don’t know how to diagnose all KICKR hardware issues.
When you first posted here our team tried to find information on your issue but you have not given any details of your problem so no one has been able to help. Please submit a support ticket with details of your issue and someone will contact you. Once you have a ticket number, feel free to post it here or quote it when leaving a voice mail message, we do not have full-time phone support but someone will get back to you.
Regards
Murray
btw, this is a big flaw of most product reviews…unboxing, setting up, testing..all good. But customer service is a huge part of how good a product performs (or not), and it’s rarely getting tested by reviews.
Hi Wahoo Murray,
almost a week on a support ticket 79114 , I have received only one advice , to clean dust like some helpful people here are suggesting, but this is not working for me. Can you “push” work on this ticket ?
Regards,
Alex
I just bought the Wahoo on the 23rd, logged a support ticket (#79151) with them on the 25th and got a response that they wanted video of my issue. The issue being a loud scraping noise from the spin drum when in use. I provided a link to a YouTube video (link to youtube.com) that I took of the issue on the 27th and have yet to hear a response. Just tried calling the phone support number and it says that no voice mailbox has been set up so I couldn’t even leave a voicemail.
While I applaud them for responding to me on a Sunday to get more information on my issue, going 3 days with no response is more than a little troubling for a product I paid $1000 for.
I look forward to a resolution to my issue, if anyone else has experienced similar let me know if you found a solution that worked.
JT
First let me comment on your noise, I had a similar noise in one Kickr I’ve had and it was similar although not identical to yours. It required a return of the unit.
Second the way I understand support, use the Wahoo web pages and get a ticket number. Don’t email again until they contact you. Support will contact you be patient. I had similar frustrations as yours.
HTH
Jerry
My replacement KICKR is on the way! Thanks Wahoo for the support! I look forward to setting up the unit when it arrives!
Hey Everyone,
Wahoo Megan here! I just wanted to quickly apologize for the recent delay in responding to customer service issues. Wahoo Fitness is located in Atlanta, GA and if you’ve been following the news you’ve probably seen that the entire city is shut down. We’re running on a skeleton crew today (mostly from home) but hopefully we’ll be back full force tomorrow. We still have a few Wahooligans on the road trying to make it home from yesterday, so please be patient with us for the next day or so. We’ll be working overtime to make sure everyone gets taken care of!
Cheers,
Megan
Thanks for the update, at least I know why it’s taking so long now. :) Coming from a city that is used to snow and ice (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) I’m used to the conditions down there, but I know they don’t get that kind of weather often. I hope everyone is OK.
JT
Finally after much procrastination, I got the kickr, and is setup. I love it!! It’s an amazing tool. I want to start using other apps such as Kinomap or TR (these are just onese that i have learned about on this site).
I want to upload rides that i have stored in Garmin Connect into any app that is free. Does one exist or is that wishful thinking?
My preference would be to not have to pay for anything else since i just spent $1100. If the only way is to pony up more $$ i guess i’ll happily spend more.
Greg
When you say you’re looking to upload GC rides into any app that is free – do you mean to ride? Or to store for analysis?
To ride is still a bit tricky. For analysis, you can use these to pull from GC to other sites: link to dcrainmaker.com
I’ve had some good luck with Virtual Training when it comes up uploading GC rides. It’s a pretty simple uploader and allows you to adjust the elevation smoothing a bit. Only used it a couple times but seemed to work smooth for me!
Greg – Consider trying Veloreality. Run from a Windows computer via an ANT+ connection to the Kickr, the software has superb videos, the best available.
Rainmaker and Brad – Thanks for the reply. Yes, I should have explained myself better. I am looking to get an app that will allow me to ride previous rides. I looked at the Cyclops Trainer Road app, but was a bit confusing in that it appeared that I needed the $10 workstation app along with the $5 app on my ipad. It looked like I had to use the workstation to download from Garmin Connect, then upload into my account. Then from there I could use the Ipad app from there. Does that sound right?
Ideally it would be a free app, but if I have to pay a small monthly fee, then I guess i’ll have to do it.
By the way I think the kickr is amazing! I purchased it based on your review and the remarks of the followers on this post. I’ve never had a power meter before so this is an amazing tool which I hope will help better my overall bike times.
You should look at the strava segment app.
Greg,
I’ve been using Virtual Training on a PC so I can’t attest to the capabilities of the app itself. The PC software is a small monthly charge but it gives me everything I need to ride existing courses or upload my own Garmin Connect files (I have to export them first but it’s a relatively easy process). I would imagine that you could upload the files on a PC and then save them for later use on the iPad but I am not 100% about this. Even though the app costs a few bucks, it’s only a one-time fee and you will get all future updates for free so it’s kind of a no-brainer! If I get some spare time, I’ll try downloading the app and examining the features a little closer but I can’t promise that’s going to happen any time soon, we’re pretty swamped here and the weather hasn’t helped things!
As Kenni mentioned, Strava Segments could also work but you’d have to create a “segment” out of the entire ride and then search for that segment each time.
Cheers,
Brad
Brad from Wahoo called me yesterday. I think it was even after hours. Very nice and helpful. Unit worked with Wahoo’s app, not with the Virtual apps and he’s looking into it.
Hello folks,
I got my Kickr recently and so far everything works flawlessly. I didn’t ride any other trainer before, but I am very satisfied how the Kickr feels like. As a pure outdoor rider so far, the main feature which convinced me to get the Kickr was the possibility to control its resistance by importing GPX files or any other GPS data into a program. Doing so, I am able to ride my favorite outdoor courses or ambitious future courses directly at home. I got PerfPro Studio and a Suunto Movestick (ANT+ USB dongle) to control the Kickr. With this combination, you could also use your heart rate or cadence sensor from you bike computer, if these are also ANT+ compatible. PerfPro can detect them and display the data. Then you just import any GPX file or other GPS data into PerfPro and you are directly able to ride the corresponding height profile.
I know that GPS data is often poor in precision (which has been discussed in this thread quiet frequently), but I found in my opinion a good way to correct GPS data for the usage with the Kickr. There is a free program called GPS-track-analyse, which you can download from
link to gps-track-analyse.de
Unfortunately it seems like German is the only interface language, but it has a quiet intuitive user interface. This tool allows you to open a GPX file for ex. and to manually edit it. It will give you an overview of total meters of climbing and all other infos you could get. This number is often far of from values I got for rides I recorded with my bike computer (barometrical). To correct the values and to get a realistic road feeling for the Kickr, the program allows you to flatten the height profile by applying some sort of polynomial function to fit the overall profile. You can only chose a few factors for the fitting (number of interpolation intervals, number of repeated calculations and to approximate the height values to full numbers), but you can repeat it several times till you get a value for the total meters climbing, which corresponds closely to the correct value. You also have the possibility to show you the distribution of all values of incline and decline, where you can directly delete unrealistic values (when the gradient would be for example 30% even though you know that the maximum for your ride is only 12% for example). I kick out all extreme and unrealistic values beforehand and the do the smoothing, like this I get very nice GPX files to ride with the Kickr. Like this, you don’t get into trouble that you suddenly have extreme values of gradients when you climb or a surprising descent in a mountain stage where normally there is none.
To ride a stage where I don’t have personal informations about the profile from my bike computer, you can nicely design your own route for free on
link to bikemap.net
It’s very easy to use and you have a very good database for rides (at least in Europe). I like it much more than the Strava website (most segments are just way to short). You can export from bikemap your own designed route or an already predefined course as GPX file and load it into PerfPro (after editing it with the GPS analysis tool) and then enjoy your ride. Bikemap.net gives very good values for the total meters climbing when you design your own profile and also for the preexisting routes. Remember this number when you open the exported GPX file into the analysis tool, the value there will be totally different. Do the described editing steps to get a smooth profile and the realistic amount of meters you have to climb. I don’t use the Strava app for the iPad, but I guess you could also upload you edited GPX file to the Strava website and then ride it by controlling the Kickr with the iPad instead of controlling it via ANT+, but I am not sure if Strava will reedit the course when you upload your file. Maybe someone with the iPad app could try…
Overall I really love the Kickr, it seems very well built and it works exactly the way I imagined and out of the box. Nevertheless I would like to point out as well some things for improvement.
I noticed a week spot in the overall good quality of material, because one of the blue bolts to keep the stands in place came off while I was riding. Here are the links to pictures I took.
link to dropbox.com
The problem is, that the bolt is only held in its place by a tiny horseshoe shaped metal ring, which is very thin and doesn’t correspond to the solidness of the rest of the machine. For 1000$ I would expect a better mechanism to keep the bolts in place. Fortunately I was able to reattach it with a nipper and I hope it is going to stay where it should be and I don’t need to contact the support for it.
The other thing I think should be improved is the manual and the general knowledgebase for the Kickr. The manual which is delivered with the machine itself doesn’t give any information other than a quick setup tutorial and important things how to troubleshoot the Kickr are widespread over the internet. You should really gather all these helpful informations you find in this forum and also some of the infos from the Wahoo website and write a proper pdf manual, which should be then updated from time to time. Furthermore, I can’t find anywhere informations on how to maintain the Kickr (how to keep it clean, which products can be used to keep it clean, is there anything to lube or to retighten after a certain amount of riding, which parts of the Kickr should never be opened or modified by oneself, etc.). It would be very good to get this kind of input to enjoy the Kickr as long as possible.
Anyway, in total I am very happy with the machine and I definitely can recommend it to others who are looking out for a good home trainer. Enjoy your ride!
Subject: Watts on kickr are > 20W too high
I purchased a Kickr a week ago.
I quite the like the unit. It took less than 30 minutes to unpack, download a few apps and mount the bike. I really recommend the TACX ipad handlebar mount.
Note: I have calibrated the unit several times (tried at the start of the ride, ten minutes into the ride, etc).
The watts reported by the Kickr (in both the Wahoo and the Virtual Training apps) is 20-30W more than the watts shown on my Quark SRAM Red Power Meter. For example, when Kickr reports 180W actual watts are less than 160, when Kickr reports 250W actual watts are around 220W.
I have tested the quark power meter against my computrainer and they are within 2-5W apart.
In addition, I can see that my heart rate is too low for the kickr reported watts. For example, on the computrainer my pulse is about 165 at 300W but on the kickr I required 330W to get to 165HR.
I have found several similar complaints on the web of the same issue. In some cases, it appears that a new Kickr is required???
Has anyone been able to resolve this issue?
Thanks,
David
I have noticed the same discrepancy in power between my Quarq and the Wahoo Kickr (Quarq = 20 Watts lower). Both are new to me (as is training with power) so I’m at a loss to know which is correct. I found this blog post link to slowroadie.com in which the author had a similar difference in power between his Quarq and PowerTap. His eventual solution was to re-torque the chainring bolts on the Quarq which appeared to drastically reduce the difference between the Quarq and PT.
I have the Quarq on my new road bike and use an older bike on my Kickr. I just re-torqued my chainring bolts on the Quarq equipped bike and after the weekend (riding outside with temps finally over 30°F), I’ll put it on the Kickr to compare them again. I wish I had a third power meter available to me to see one provides the most accurate results.
No matter if its the Quarq or the KICKR that is most accurate, its important that you have consistency across your indoor and outdoor workouts. If you are using the iMobileIntervals app you can offset the KICKR by the difference to align it with your power meter. I believe no other app offers this feature.
Jeff (or others) – After you’ve re-torqued the bolts on the Quarq, ensure you do a handful (3-4) hard standing starts/sprints to ‘set’ the unit. On the KICKR, simply do some all-out 20″ sprints. Outdoors, basically do the same thing. Then re-calibrate. Having done a lot of testing, there’s a substantial difference on units post-sprints than pre-sprints after installation (both on Quarq, but also other PM’s).
Now, the good news is that if you went out for a ride post-torque, you probably took care of that along the way.
Jeff et al –
I don’t believe the issue is the Quark power meter but rather the Kickr watts are 20-30W too high. I have done multiple calibrations on the Kickr.
D
I’ve checked KICKR against my Powertap few times and it stays within +/- 5W during steady site at 200W average and can deviate +/- 15-20W during hard sprints. Frankly I consider it quite normal. Too many factors are involved during measuring power. The companies whose business is making power meters of course put enough resources to perfect their contraptions. Companies making trainers on the other hands probably can not afford it. However the average power on KICKR is VERY consistent between the rides once calibrated. So if I was that much concerned about “perfect” watts I’d just simply rescale whatever workout you are people using to match whatever is needed.
Now. Computrainer in my measurements was not not any better. I tested it extensively (Pro model) and it behaves exactly the same. Very accurate/consistent during steady riding and not that much during hard sprints.
Kostya –
I would be *very* happy +/- 5W during a steady ride at 240W however, I am seeing deviations of 30W at that level. I am not concerned about hard sprints or bursts.
I didn’t see this variation on the computrainer or cycleops i400. Btw, only reason for switching was that the CT continually ate tubes and tires. Kickr solves that nicely.
D
Cyclops i400 has buit in Powertap. It’s got to be good ;) But I agree if yure going that much off during steady ride on KICKR something is wrong.
Update: The watts difference problem seems to have solved itself. On my last two rides, the Quark power meter and Kickr watt readings have been withing 1-3 Watts.
Items I did do – not sure if any or all helped solved the issue:
1. I used the Wahoo Utility to calibrate the Kickr (rather than the Cycelops Virtual Training)
2. Before each ride, I calibrated the Quark power meter using my Garmin 810 (as recommended by quark)
Or Perhaps – it takes time for the kickr to get “worked-in?”
Either way – the Kickr appears to be giving me consistent readings to the Quark power meter.
However, one item for the Wahoo software team It looks like the algorithm used to control the brake is lopsided. If I set the power to 250W – the pattern is 245, 247, 249, 251… 243, 246, 248, 252 .. 245, … it seems that there are always 2-3X as many under numbers and as soon as there is one over number the brake immediately cuts the resistance (and then builds up to the set point and then cuts immediately.) As such, the average will always be a few watts under the set amount. So – when I set watts to 250 I land up with an average always under the 250 (usually by 2-3W). Suggest they equalize the algorithm so that their is a set point overage differential equal to the amount resistance cut-amount.
Regards,
David
Thanks for the follow-up. I’ll try calibrating the Kickr with the Wahoo app rather than using the TrainerRoad in-app calibration and see if that changes my results. I have logged about 110 hours on my Kickr so I’m not sure it’s an issue of needing to be “worked-in”.
Hi David.
“The watts difference problem seems to have solved itself”
You got me curious. In case you have PC is there any chance you can try calibration with our software and see if there are any difference? http://veloreality.com
Hi! So far I love my Wahoo Kickr and have been using TrainerRoad. My questions is how you used your Garmin 810 to pick up your Quarq power meter. With the bike being on the Kickr, I have no speed pick-up, and can’t seem to get my Garmin to pick-up power from the Quarq. Just wanted to compare the power readings if possible.
Thanks, Jen
You can switch back and forth between bikes on the 810, so you setup a ‘bike’ for the KICKR, and a ‘bike’ for the Quarq.
If you use the Quarq, you won’t get speed from the KICKR. This is because today in the ANT+ stream the speed channel comes from the power meter device profile (KICKR). And you can’t concurrently pair two power meters on the Edge.
Wahoo has stated they’re looking to do some work in that area so that folks could use their own PM + the KICKR speed. And variations thereof with repeating. They haven’t identified a timeline for that though.
Hi Kostya –
I do have a pc w/ant+ (use it w/cycleops virtual training and a cycleops 400) i will download veloreality (I think you are in Toronto as well?) and give it a try this weekend. I looked at some of your quick start guides and screen shots and your software definitely looks best in class. Do you have any plans to port to iPad (much easier form factor for riding than booting up windows and hoping everything connects.)
D.
Hi David. Are you in Toronto? If yes then any chance you give me a call (416) 888-4314. I would want to take an opportunity and arrange a training session on Lynx for you. Try it and see what you say ;)
As for iPad:
1) At some point we definitely will do something about mobile market but straight port is not possible. Our desktop software relies on high performance hardware. iPad simply does not have enough juice to do what we do now. Our software is evolving fast and we have some very exciting interactive and augmented 3D features coming which in combination with large very high quality videos will easily choke any mobile device. Well over the time the power of those devices will grow so we’ll se what happens. One of our customers reported that the software ran fine his Window Surface Pro tablet.
2). Hope that everything connects. Well frankly this is not the experience we have. It is the easiest to use software on a market that is portable and requires no installation and unless you have hardware problem you can be up and running mere seconds after downloading our software and hooking it up to KICKR.
3) Form factor. I think that you’re right and you are wrong at the same time, If you consider iPhone/iPad as a glorified bike computer that shows you some real time numbers and graphs then you are 100% correct. And because of that everyone and a dog now makes some sport/cycling software that shows some numbers for mobiles. Is there any point for us to make another app like that? We are targeting premium market instead. People who appreciate quality. Look at our video offerings and the Lynx trainer. But playing VERY high quality panoramic videos soon with 3D content on tiny screen makes very little sense.
Thanks, I’ll do that a today. Makes sense in that it (810) didn’t know which power meter to read.
Hi Kostya –
Yes – in toronto. I will reach out to you via your website (I registered earlier). Not sure that I need another trainer (have three at the moment – computrainer, cycleops 400, and a kickr).
1. Yes – I too am in software and understand well the differences between a PC and a iPad. However, the market is shifting very quickly towards tablets. Most users are prepared for a lighter experience and the iPad’s 64 bit A7 is quite a powerful chip and the device has been designed for HD media. Obviously, you have to design the UX differently and have to less on the screen.
2. Connectivity – I haven’t tried the ant+ key for the ipad yet but the iPad’s bluetooth connectivity w/the kickr is 100X better than my notebook’s ant+ connectivity to the my cycleops. I suspect that BT is a more reliable and richer protocol.
3. Form factor / target market … i train w/a bunch of buddies. All in your target market (three of us just got kickrs) – and we all only use iPads. Reality is if you are doing a hill climb after a few minutes the only thing you focus on is the elevation profile particularly the next few hundred meters. The videos are nice but I would encourage you to do a control test of observing users are a survey monkey poll. Me personally – i would forgo the video and be happy w/a google map course w/gradients that don’t fluctuate widely (4% to 18% in five meters.)
4. iPad vs PC – the advantages again to me are (1) time to get going, (2) ability to interact w/the application easily (using a mouse or a keyboard while pushing 300W is somewhat of a challenge), (3) setup – don’t need a screen, table, etc – just a tacx tablet mount for your bars, etc.
5. Software market in general. Apps are becoming somewhat commodity. Too easy to create/clone ideas. However, I see real value in your video content and quality of your rides. Your catalogue seems to be ahead of the cycleops, kinomaps, etc. I would gladly pay a subscription for quality rides.
Happy to chat – you can also do a quick web search on me. I have been in the s/w industry for a long time ..
D.
1) As I said I am watching it closely (mobile market) and will do something about it when the time is right. But for now even with that “wonderful” 64bit chip and ability to play HD video it still does not cut what I want to do. There is a big difference between simply playing HD video and doing what I do/want to do in a nearest future but I do not want to bore readers with low level techie stuff.
3) There is no market for me in Google Earth. As I said everyone and my dog makes apps for that. We will offer it as an option in our software though.
4) Try riding our videos not just to waste some joules but with the big TV or projector. In combination with Lynx, good fan and music blasting you’re just there. You’ve god beautiful panoramic view and Lynx does proper physics of cycling down to a fraction of pedal stroke. As I said I am not really pushing you to buy it but I definitely want you to try it. That 15% hill feels exactly like 15% hill in real life on Lynx and on KICKR it is totally different feeling. There is no trainer on the market that can accurately model all forces the way Lynx does. So basically I do in my cave what I do in a summer and have lots of fun.
5) It depends on one’s setup. Time to get going on PC for me personally is zero. I have trainer behind my work chair and big 30″ monitor, fan and speakers right in front of me. All I have to do is push that chair away put on my cycling clothes on and off I go. link to exsotron.com
6) I somewhat agree to this statement but I will definitely try to make our offerings a bit above commodity. See I do not want to serve burgers but will try to make nice meal instead. May be we will succeed may be not but at least we are doing what we love. We have barely started and with no real advertising but already have good deal of customers (the majority are being KICKR owners ;) ).
I like the cave – but you need a better chair. I will give your s/w a try this weekend.
Kostya – I have to agree with you. Working out on an indoor trainer (Kickr for me) is so much better watching your fantastic Veloreality videos on a wide screen monitor. Much more enjoyable than just watching numbers on a small iPad screen. The Veloreality videos are the best available, hands down. Consistently beautiful weather in famous locations makes the riding breathtaking and the time fly by. Very addictive. Thank you!
Hey you all.
I have now had my Kickr for two month and I love it. I have been using it with my iPad and kinomap. At first I had some problems with the Kickr not changing the resistance when the kinomap route changed the slope. After talking to wahoo I updated my dongle and turned my iPad upside down in my tacx holder (so the dongle is pointing up) for better reception, and so far it seems to work.
One thing that annoys me though, is the upload from kinomap. I have direct upload to runkeeper but then the distance gets all wrong. Then I have tried to email my self and upload the gpx to RK. Still no success.
Now I email my self and upload to Strava, either the gpx or the tcx file and then sync via tapirik to RK. Then the distance is ok but the elevations getting way to high. Finally I have to make my route private on Strava, so the segments dossent interfear with those who did their ride in real life.
Now please tell me. Do I upload my activity all wrong or do I just need another setup?
On the close I can tell that I have plans on trying the Virtualtraining next.
Kind regards
Kenni, DK
As I posted here before , I had problems with constant drop of power and also fluctuation of power readings. I have received new Kickr and issue is not present any more.
Many thanks to Jonathan Vejjajiva (Wahoo Fitness Support) and also Megan Powers (Customer Service Manager).
So , this post is to give big PLUS to Wahoo support.
I’ve probably had more KICKRs than most!
I was lucky enough to get one of the original batch back in March 2013 through Clever Training. Unfortunately after months of solid use it developed a bearing issue manifested as a loud graunching noise whenever it was used. Wahoo very quickly sent me a replacement part and a link to a very helpful video and I was back up and running in a few days. A few months later and the noise was back but Wahoo had no hesitation in swapping the KICKR for a brand new machine. Problem solved and it has worked perfectly ever since.
The KICKR is so good my wife bought hers from Apple in the UK but her first unit was DOA – impossible to calibrate as the resistance was so high. Again within a couple of days this had been replaced and this time all appeared well. She controlled her device through Wahoo Fitness app (Bluetooth) but I noticed her power data was very noisy when viewed on Trainerroad.com or Garmin (i.e. looking at data through ANT+). Jonathan at Wahoo very quickly sent out a replacement part but this didn’t sort out the ‘spiky’ data. We’ve just received the replacement KICKR and it works perfectly.
So, we’ve had a few problems with our units but I would still, wholeheartedly and without hesitation, recommend this device. The KICKR is absolutely brilliant to use especially with trainerroad.com and The Sufferfest videos – it turns what could be a potentially boring session into a fun-filled sweat-fest!
The service has been exemplary. Sure, we’ve had issues but the team at Wahoo (Jonathan Vejjajiva and Brad – top guys!) have been brilliant. Sometimes s**t happens but Wahoo have dealt with this very professionally and sorted us out as quickly as they could.
If you are still pondering the purchase of a KICKR and are a little concerned, I would honestly say just do it – the unit is so good you can forgive any teething problems you may encounter and I have rarely dealt with a company who has such good customer service – they are obviously passionate about their products and it shows.
Many thanks to all those at Wahoo and to DC Rainmaker for an absolutely amazing site!
drgav2005 – What was the part you had to replace in your Kickr? How did the defective part make noise? I am curious to know what is considered a normal amount of noise for the Kickr and what is considered abnormal. Thanks for your comments.
RG
Hi Ron,
Here is a video highlighting the noise the bearings were making: link to youtube.com
Wahoo sent me a new bearing and a link to a video for the repair. Once swapped over, the KICKR was pretty much silky smooth and very quiet – none of the cracking noises you hear on my video! I think this was an issue with the daly batch of KICKRs – I haven’t experienced any noise issues on any of the replacement devices.
Hope this helps!
Hi Ron,
Here is a video highlighting the noise the bearings were making: link to youtube.com
Wahoo very quickly sent me a new bearing (i.e. the big black disc with Wahoo on it) and a link to a video for the repair. Once swapped over, the KICKR was pretty much silky smooth and very quiet – none of the cracking noises you hear on my video! I think this was an issue with the early batch of KICKRs – I haven’t experienced any noise issues on any of the replacement devices… well, apart from me when I’m suffering!
Hope this helps!
If the Kickr is set up on mats where there is some give (I’m imagining getting out of the saddle and the base sinking slightly into the mat) will the power readings be off?
Thanks, and sorry for the odd question!
Steve
Hi Steve,
Power readings will be just fine!
Best regards,
Brad
Bought the Kickr some months ago, and love it so far. But yesterday after a while, the wahoo Fitness app stoped reciving siganls from the Garmin Cadence and the Garmin HR. The batteries in both Devices are New. Do somebody have an solution?
Check to make sure your Wahoo Key is inserted correctly and that your 30-pin port is not dirty (use canned air to remove any dust).
Is this product made in the USA? if not, where?
Designed in Atlanta, GA and manufactured in Taiwan.
Hi Ray,
Purchased the Kickr based on your recommendation!
Couple of things I noticed:
– The flywheel seems to make a high pitched hum while spinning – not sure if this is normal?
– My Blue SC does not pick up using trainerroad, so it doesnt register cadence- have you seen any issues like this?
Thanks Ray – always look forward to your reviews!
Rgds,
Michael
You’ll have a slightly higher pitched noise with the KICKR, that’s a bit normal. You can lower your speed by changing gears, which will reduce the high-pitch a bit (of course, that’s in ERG mode, it depends on what mode you’re in).
For the Blue SC, assuming the lights are flashing, TR should pick it up depending on the operating system and whether or not it supports Bluetooth Smart.
Hi Michael,
If you think it sounds abnormal, record a short video/audio of the noise and send it over to our support team and they can help you out.
Thanks
So which trainer is recommended if what i need is the following:
1. Be able to mark a route on google earth and see the movement on the marked route on a big TV screen while I train.
2. Realistic feel while training especially on downhills.
3. Reliable with ability to use iPhone or android devices to monitor training data.
Dear Ziad
Start reading THE post you are looking for:
link to dcrainmaker.com
then read the whole thread above this post and you will find many answers.
1: A trainer that can use e.g. CylceOps Virtual Training software – think ahaed and get one using an open ANT+ profile
2: …downhill on a trainer is saving legs/wasting time/watching a movie like Google Earth. Fast forward!
3: TrainingPeaks.com/GarminConnect data can be seen on Iphone and Android after training data has been uploaded. Maybe you are asking for a trainer that has controling software that runs on both platforms…
I am using Wahoo/TrainerRoad/GoldenCheeta for my purpose.
Good luck hunting :-)
Welcome to DCRainmaker.com
I apologize if this was already answered, but did we ever receive any confirmation of what 12v cigarette plugs work with the Kickr?
This one was suggested above, but never confirmed: link to amazon.com
Hey Corey,
The plug would ideally have a 5a fuse. The majority of plugs we’ve found are rated at 1a. Here’s one of the few that we have found rated for the proper amperage: link to grainger.com
I started making my own actually…
I found out the plug is 5.5mm OD x 2.5mm ID. Found one at Radio Shack. Now just need to solder it to about 20′ of 16awg 2 conductor wire and then solder the other end to a cigarette lighter adapter.
I meant to add that I got into that and realized a battery might be a much cleaner solution. Did I see correctly that Team Sky is using a 12v battery?
Corey,
Just check that the adapter doesn’t have its own fuse. You also need to check the cars fuse box and make sure it is fitted with a 5A fuse for the cigarette lighter.
Alternatively, a small SLA battery can work well. I build a few of these setups for Team Sky.
link to amazon.com
Corey,
Here is a couple photos of some batteries I made (in a rush) for Team Sky at the Tour Down Under.
link to dropbox.com
link to dropbox.com
Murray,
How long can I expect the battery you linked from Amazon to last?
I bought the Kickr for myself with a Black Friday discount (thank you DC for the heads up) and love it. “It just works”. I use it with trainer road/sufferfest workouts and couldn’t be happier. The erg mode takes all the thinking out of the equation and allows me to dial in my cadence and suffer. I also use the virtual trainer software for zone 2/3 rides and long climbs. The strava app needs some work in my opinion so I haven’t used it that much even though I payed the $30 for the app. DC’s review was spot on and I’m glad I went with the Kickr versus the cyclops.
I purchased my Kickr in August 2013 and it’s been terrific out of the box, not a single issue. Currently I use Trainer Road and Virtual Training and couldn’t be happier with both. Recently I tried using Veloreality, but had issues with varying power and cutting out. I would assume it was the software since there were no issues with either TR or Virtual Training.
At times I wish the accuracy and repeatability could be verified. I calibrate once every 2 weeks using a 10 minute warmup cycle followed by the spin down using Wahoo Utility app. Just curious if these calibration numbers fall into the same spec as other users.
Kicker Calibration
Spindown time: 26.261
Temperature: 27.87
Offset: 450
Overall I highly recommend the Kickr. So far I’ve used KK Road Machine, Cycle Ops Powerbeam, and currently still use Emotion rollers. Kickr is by far the one that gets the most usage.
2 possible reasons for that:
1) We reduced rate of transmissions from ANT+ stick to KICKR following recommendation from Wahoo since it was interfering with reception of signals from sensors. You can try latest version and see if it works for you.
2) We had another customer with the same problem (signal drops on KICKR). There is acknowledged bug in KICKR’s firmware which might show up when another ANT+ receiver (Garmin Edge for example) is running in parallel with ANT+ stick. The advice from Wahoo was not to turn on any extra ANT+ receivers. Personally I do not have this problem even though I run Edge 705 in parallel.
Also between 2 sticks ANT+ USB2 and ANT USB-m stick the last one handles transmission/reception way better. Basically the customer turned off his Garmin 800 he was running in parallel and replaced ANT USB2 stick with ANT USB-m. Now he says there are no more problems.
1. If the download you have on your site is the most recent update, that’s the one I have.
2.Currently I don’t run my Garmin when using TR. I have both the Garmin and Suunto USB sticks, and neither one will work. Maybe I’ll look into the USB-m and see if that resolved any of my issues.
Veloreality has some of the most scenic HD videos. Hopefully I could resolve the issues and purchase the videos. BTW, I used both Demo 1 and 2 videos.
Regarding spindown offset in TrainerRoad, what values do you have, if somebody want to share please ?
On my first malfunctioned Kickr , I had around 500 (only sporadically I can execute spindown due to problems fluctuating power) and now on my new one I constantly receive value around 1300 and Kickr is working fine.
Thanks.
The offset isn’t worth comparing between units, it doesn’t mean anything when comparing units.
The fluctuating power would have been caused by a miss-aligned optical sensor.
Thanks Wahoo Murray, now I am more confident that my FTP is correct !!!!
Perhaps a silly question, but what are the chances I can mount a bike on the KICKR that uses a 12mmX142mm through axle?
We have a full list of supported bikes here:
link to support.wahoofitness.com
Sorry, We do not currently support through Axle.
This is definately not a silly question, for now it is just a wish for the future.
12X142mm has become THE standard for mountain bikes, so I also wish the KICKR hub could have replaceable end caps. Replaceable end caps are seen on most hub manufactors now, and in this way all types of bikes would be supported.
So Wahoo Murray: To the lab! :-)
Hey Joe,
Actually, we have just released an adapter kit that allows most 12x142mm bikes to be mounted on the KICKR! You can find the kit here: http://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/kickr-142×12-mountain-bike-adapter.html
I’ll make sure to update the link Wahoo Murray provided!
Best regards,
Brad
…. and Update Wahoo Murray with new information, This is what happens when I go away snowboarding for 3 weeks. :-)
Hey Brad
Link to 12×142 adapter does not work from eu.wahoo site – can you please update?
/Lars
Hi Lars,
Thanks for pointing this out. I believe the adapters are in stock in Europe but they must not be live on the website yet. I will work with our IT team to get this resolved ASAP. Once available, you will be able to find the kit on the “Accessories” page: link to eu.wahoofitness.com
Best regards,
Brad
Quick update: The 12×142 Adapters should now be available on your EU webpage!
Had my first KICKR sent back to Wahoo because it never measured speed and power correctly even after I made a tricky “repair” with parts sent by Wahoo…
Now I have a new device. Same thing: No speed measurement with any App. I’m frustrated. Did anybody experience the same?
Not exactly the same but my first unit was a dud, tried everything to get it displaying speed and power correctly but nothing worked. Sounds like you have a second bad unit because once you get a good one they just work out of the box. (My replacement unit was a good one). Get yourself another unit, it’s worth the wait.
Unless it’s a shipping issue, it surprises me that these units are not quality tested at the factory as reading around the web dud units ‘seem’ quite common. I guess that ratio depends on how many units they actually ship though so it could just be a very small percentage.
Thanks mate. I’ll give them another chance. But – it really sucks…
I am having trouble getting speed data as well. My kickr shows it’s paired but when pedaling no speed data shown. Just got my kickr a few weeks ago and was trying it out for the first time today and very disappointed that it didn’t work out after following step by step instructions how to properly install and pair up devices.
Hi Ivy-
Have you tried contacting Wahoo support?
Hello Ivy,
I have contacted the Wahoo support several times. The guys at Wahoo are very friendly, competent and the response times are fast. Actually I tried everything they suggested – but it’s of no use. There seem to be some units with misplaced / misaligned sensors.
This is what the Wahoo support told me:
»We have identified a manufacturing issue with the spacing of the KICKR’s optical speed sensor that affects speed/power readings. We have developed a fairly simple fix. We will express ship the kit to you.«
I installed the kit. But it did not solve the problem. The speed measurement was still not accurate enough for even do a spin down…
WAHOO sent me a replacement of the sensors.
The following link provides instructions on how to replace the sensor on the KICKR.
link to dropbox.com
Works just fine now. Thanks!
Would it be a reasonable assumption to make that the power data from the Kickr would most resemble a Powertap, because they are both read at the same point (versus a crank or pedal based reading)?
Yup, reasonable assumption.
Wahoo Brad or Murray – Could you please explain the meaning of the spindown time and the offset. These numbers seem to vary, especially the offset. Is a higher or lower value better? Do these numbers change over time with more use of the Kickr? Thanks.
Hi Ron,
The offset is just a factory setting, its basically a mid-point. Any value is fine.
The spin down is the time it takes for the flywheel to slow down from one speed to another without any additional input. In other words its the natural resistance on the KICKR with the electric break turned off. Things like bearing, bolts and tension on the belt can alter this value. Its normally around 25 seconds, but neither higher or lower is better.
Your time might change over time, we normally recommend a spin down every 2 weeks or if you move the KICKR.
Just wanted to add a little to what Murray said about the offset. When we get an offset value we’re essentially “zeroing” the KICKR strain gauge. Just like you would do on a scale or set of calipers. The specific number you get is irrelevant.
Would anyone be able to share what the current Firmware version is for the Kickr?
Hey BlinkyPete,
The current KICKR firmware is v.1.2.2.
I used a trainer many years ago and couldn’t stand it for all kinds of reasons, but come December in England I knew if I wanted to ride La Marmotte well I would have to train through the winter months and remain motivated. Came on here and I read the reviews and the comments. The Wahoo Kickr seemed to be what I always wanted, but I was nervous at the expense, and also the problems people had with it. In the end I decided that it was what I needed and surely I wouldn’t get one that didn’t work. Unfortunately I was; couldn’t get it to work at all, couldn’t get any power measurements, etc. Contacted Wahoo who were were very good and made a few suggestions and sent me some new parts. Unfortunately they didn’t solve the problem, so sent it back to Apple for a replacement. Fast forward two and a half months and its been perfect, seen the leap in fitness, remain highly motivated, and enjoyed Trainerroad, Sufferfest, etc. Its a great product and despite the hefty price I think worth every penny.
Hi everyone. Can anyone guide me to the correct/optimal setup. Currently I am running: 1. Garmin vector pedals, 2. Trainerroad, 3. Garmin 510 head unit, 4. Garmin HR monitor and 5. KICKR. I have the KICKR being paired to trainer road via BT, power from ‘use power from electronic trainer’, HR monitor ANT+, Cadence ANT+ (i.e. comes from my vector pedals), and speed comes from KICKR (although I don’t place much stock in the value given I am training with power. So far the trainer road workouts (on ERG) have been smooth and without problems (after swapping in a new sensor) however, my Edge 510 is turned of as is the WAHOO app as they were mixing each other up previously. Because I am not using my vector pedals as the power source I am also not get the left right balance data or total pedal strokes during a workout when I upload my data to garmin connect (from trainer road). Does KICKR operate in ERG mode best when using its own power versus using pedal and can anyone recommend a better/optimal setup? Thanks
The Kickr cannot be controlled by external power meters at this time, but they’ve told me they are working on adding this functionality in a future firmware update. If you deselect “use power from electronic trainer” you should be able to pair your Vectors to Trainer Road using ANT+ (I’m able to do this with my SRM meter). The power displayed and recorded in TrainerRoad will then be from your Vectors and not the Kickr. The Kickr, however, will still “follow” its own internal power measurements. If TrainerRoad is set at 250 watts in erg mode, the Kickr will make you produce 250 watts based on what the Kickr says is 250 watts, not what your Vectors consider 250 watts to be. If you’re lucky, those two measurements won’t be too far off. In my case, my Kickr reads 15-30 watts higher than my SRM or Stages power meters after calibration.
I’m not certain if TrainerRoad will the record left/right balance from your Vectors. My guess is no, but I could be wrong. In that case, you would want to also enable your Garmin to record that data via ANT+. I’ve been able to use my Garmin in a similar setup without any interference problems (keep the Wahoo App off and don’t have any other devices trying to connect to the Kickr). I haven’t been able to get the Kickr to broadcast its speed to the Garmin this way, though, which makes the ride data from the Garmin unsuitable for uploading to Strava. This may because Wahoo are still working on getting the newest ANT+ specification into the firmware that would allow this. If anyone has any further insight about all this, I’d also like to hear from them here.
Thanks for this. I have been using my Trainerroad data to upload to strava and garmin connect. The speed is still useless as I am spinning in the granny gear (to keep the noise level to a minimum)…i.e. I did a Z2 ride on Sunday at 160 watts which translated into only 20km/h.
No problem. Also, if you’re in erg mode, you can change your gearing to get a more accurate speed. The lower the gear, the slower the speed. The higher, the faster. Since you don’t need to shift in erg mode, pick a gear that seems right speed-wise and keep it there throughout the workout. The Kickr will keep the wattage at the correct level regardless of your cadence/speed. Sounds like you may need to go to a higher gear which will also give the Kickr a more realistic and smoother feel as the flywheel will spin faster.
Yeah, I could do that however, with a family usually sleeping when I do my workouts (either pm during week or early-am on weekends), keeping it in the granny gears really cuts down on the noise (I was able to almost hear 100% a movie completely on my laptop with weak speakers).
Hey Derek,
We’re working on adding a “virtual speed” which will back-calculate your speed for a given power output. This will allow you to better track your erg workouts and compare to real world rides.
Regards,
Brad
That would be awesome and a great way to record approximate kms. Key when living in Montreal as we have yet been able to get on the road yet due to late spring.
I assume it would take cadence into account (i.e. slower cadence/same power = hill climb?)?
Hey Derek,
Virtual speed will be an estimate of your speed, given your power output, on a flat course. It will not take cadence into account.
It would be quite simple to use TrainerRaod and still have the ability to analyze the L/R from your Vector pedals. Just pair your Vectors to your Edge 510. Then have TrainerRoad pair with HR and KICKR only. That’s it.
I run a similar set up:
Power2Max power meter paired to Garmin 500 via ANT +. Then have Garmin HR, GSC-10, and KICKR paired to TrainerRoad via ANT + on laptop via Suunto Movestick Mini…technically both the GSC-10 and HR are paired to both the Edge 500 and TrainerRoad with no interference issues.
KICKR displays power in TrainerRoad and controls the entire workout in ERG mode. The Edge 500 displays power from Power2Max and can upload to Garmin Connect for L/R balance viewing etc.
The best part is this setup allows you to compare your power meter to the KICKR….after the 10 minute warm-up and re-calibration during any given workout.…my 2 devices are within 1-2 watts for the remainder of the workout.
I think key in this instance is keeping the WAHOO app off which seems to run interference with my setup. Over the weekend I was setting up for a ride on my KICKR and TR. I had my head unit paired to my vector pedals and HRM and KIKCR paired to TR via Ant+. I was in ERG mode, everything working great…until I turned on the wahoo app (to record the ride as well)…I know I know there are too many recording devices (but TR is good for only indoor rides and I like my Garmin to so that I can analyze my pedal stroke metrics etc which I cannot do via the KICKR etc.). Once the wahoo app turned on…it’s like the KICKR went from ERG mode to Level 0. From now on it looks like the wahoo app will remain off, not sure of its benefits yet (very simple data, can’t save rides on cloud so if delete app you loose all your info)
Any update on this Brad?
Hi Rainmaker,
Would love to see a power comparison between the KICKR and Garmin Vector power pedals.
Derek, you can do this now with the equipment you have. Set up TrainerRoad to connect to the Kickr, but to read the power from your Vectors as I explained above. Create or find a workout in TrainerRoad that keeps the power consistent over several minutes and your final graph from TrainerRoad will show the difference between your target power and actual power. Target power will represent the Kickr power and actual power will represent the Vectors. I would do a 10-15 minute warmup, calibrate the Kickr and Vector and then do a workout similar to the following for the test: 5 minutes @ 125 watts, 5 minutes @ 150 watts, 5 minutes @ 200 watts and continue that way until you reach a power you can’t hold.
Just to briefly comment on the original question about doing Vector vs KICKR power tests….
I have a ton of tests with comparison data, and I’m guessing somewhere in the Garmin Vector test data set I published (about 15-20 rides worth) there might be a KICKR one in there.
That said, I generally don’t use the KICKR for power meter testing. Not because there’s anything wrong with it, rather, simply a logistical item. With the KICKR I effectively lose a rear wheel hub, which is where I have a PowerTap. Thus, the number of concurrent power meters I can test with is minimized. I always try and have at least three power meters when doing comparison tests, in hopes that at least 2 out of 3 agree.
So, a typical test would be:
CompuTrainer with TrainerRoad for ANT+ broadcasting of power
Quarq Elsa spider-based power meter
Garmin Vector pedal-based power meter
Stages crank-arm based power meter
PowerTap rear wheel based power meter
Right now, one of my bikes is:
CompuTrainer with TrainerRoad for ANT+ broadcasting of power
ROTOR Power crank-arm based power meter
Garmin Vector pedal-based power meter
PowerTap rear wheel based power meter
Just to give a bit of insight on why I do what I do…
Thanks Rainmaker, what I was getting at was I was wondering how accurate the KICKR power output is relative to my Garmin Vector. I just wanted to make sure that I was 1. Training at the right FTP and 2. Hopefully when springs arrives (there’s still snow on the ground here in Montreal) my power #’s I am getting on my KICKR will be relatively close to the ones I get once I am on the road.
I got the Vector 2 weeks ago and have had the Kickr since last summer. Taking me a little time to nail down the calibration, but I think I finally got it after I bought a torque wrench and the crowbar adaptor. I did a 30 min ERG only workout going from 120, 140, 160, 180, 200 watts. My Vector measured 5 watts or less in all cases. However, I forgot to do a spindown on the Kickr so not a perfect test. I’ll try again next week.
Is there a recommendation regarding the use of a Bluetooth heart monitor versus Ant+?
I have a garmin with a HR monitor but I would need to buy an Ant+ adaptor and a 30 pin to light speed adapters for my IPad Air. I don’t see enough upside given the added cost for the 2 adapters. I am interested in any advice on this issue.
Check out the new Wahoo Fitness TICKR. It broadcasts in both Bluetooth 4.0 and ANT+ so you can use it with your iPad Air or your GPS head unit!
link to wahoofitness.com
When will the TICKR X be available?
Hey Derek,
We’re aiming for end of 2nd quarter.
Best regards,
Brad
Hi, what is exactly the TICKR X?
is it a new trainer model??
Here ya go, this should help explain it: link to dcrainmaker.com
Any data on battery life for the tickr
Hey Paul,
TICKR has an estimated 1200 hour “active” run time (connected to an app and broadcasting heart rate). The sleep current for the TICKR is insanely low. It’s likely the battery will naturally degrade faster than the TICKR can drain it while the TICKR is “asleep”.
Best regards,
Brad
Ray – thanks so much for this. I got a KICKR, and basically knew just what to do thanks to all the work you put into this. I am settling on TrainerRoad.com, and so far am really happy with it. Just need to get used to the whole erg approach, which I totally get your point on about being a great (if not the best) way to train.
One thing to share – I have a 2013 Madone 4.5, and the skewer that came with the KICKR just wouldn’t work for me. I don’t know if I’m just a moron, but I couldn’t get the bike to stay locked in. I used the skewer from my bike, and it works fine on the first try. Just curious if you or others had any issues with the Wahoo-supplied skewer, and if you have any tips.
I think I’ll go buy a second skewer rather than risk my only one unless there’s some trick to the Wahoo skewer.
Thanks Bryan, glad I could help!
I’ll defer to the Wahoo guys, who usually drop by every day or so (even earlier this morning), as I’m sure they have some common suggestions.
Hey Bryan,
I’m definitely curious to learn more about your issues with the quick release. Would you mind shooting our support team an email? I’d like to get your QR skewer back to the office so we can make sure there are no issues and also offer to send a replacement if you’d like.
Thanks so much,
Brad
Ray
Can you comment on this excerpt form a review you did? Wahoo has said there is no such capability. Is it on the near term horizon? I can’t get a response,,
As an interesting aside, on the Wahoo KICKR front, they will be releasing a firmware update to the KICKR that will enable it to act like a ANT+ to BLE bridge (like the RFLKT+). This will allow you to use existing ANT+ cadence sensors (or even ANT+ HR straps) with Bluetooth Smart devices (such as iPads or iPhones) without a separate adapter. Wahoo doesn’t yet have a timeframe for when this update will occur, but it sounded like the target was by summer at the latest.
Thanks
Last I checked a month ago, it was still being worked on, but a specific time-frame wasn’t yet decided.
Hey Paul,
Sorry about the confusion. There may have been a little disconnect between our customer service team and our development team. Ray usually talks with Murray or Chip and sometimes hears things before the rest of our crew knows about it! While the KICKR may not act exactly the same as the RFLKT+ ANT Bridge, we do hope to have it rebroadcast your ANT+ cadence data.
No hard date on that firmware release. Still a bit of testing and refining to do but we are shooting for a summer release date.
Best regards,
Brad
Ray does has the Kickr firmware being updated yet so it can be used as a ant+ BLE bridge. I can’t find any detailed info anywhere about what is included in the firmware updates. I expect a prompt reply now you’re doing this full-time ;-). Keep up the good work.
No, it doesn’t yet. I’ve kinda given up on it for now.
I guess it’s not in there interest to do so, now need to buy the RPM they do ipad use. Thanks for the reply.
I assume there is still no information on this feature?
I think it’s safe to say it’s dead.
Wahoo Brad, when can we expect a firmware update to add the ability for the Kickr to be controlled by an external power meter? Or, how about a simple trim adjustment to increase or decrease the Kickr’s power response? I’ve actually figured out a way to do this now, but it takes a bit of fussing to get just right.
Here’s what I do. My Kickr always reads about 25 watts higher than my SRM or Stages meters. I figured that if I could manipulate the spindown, I could fix the discrepancy. So, when the Kickr is spinning down I pedal a bit to increase the spindown time to about 33 seconds (from its usual 20 or so seconds). The result is a Kickr that matches my power meters very closely. I’ve used the Kickr for a few rides this way and it works great. Wish I had figured this out sooner.
Naturally, though, my preference would be to have the Kickr just use the external power meter. Or, at least, a simpler, more direct way to increase or decrease the Kickr’s power response. I hear the former is in the works, but when will it be available to us?
Chris are you still using the KICKR in ERG mode after doing the spindown? I may give this a try as it would solve my issues with not getting all the power data/spin analysis (i.e. L/R balance etc.) available to me through my vector pedals (which is the reason i bought them in the first place). Loving the KICKR beside that when paired to TR
Derek, I’m using the Kickr in erg mode for TrainerRoad workouts. I also use it in slope mode when using VirtualTrainer for less structured VR rides. Either way, once I do the spindown this way, the Kickr will hold the adjusted spindown number until I do another one, regardless of what software or mode I use.
My plan is to leave it as is and not do another spindown w/pedaling unless the Kickr starts to drift from my SRM. Right now, I’m getting average power numbers that are only -2 from the target power in TrainerRoad when reading from the SRM meter. So the Kickr is tracking the SRM very well with the manipulated spindown and now my indoor and outdoor power numbers are “apples to apples.”
Also Derek, have you established through testing that your Vectors and Kickr don’t closely match power-wise? If not, I wouldn’t suggest you do the manipulated spindown or try to match my numbers. That’s something I had to do for my setup, but it’s unlikely the same will work for yours. Every Kickr’s spindown numbers are likely to be different for one, and secondly, some Kickr’s seem to be very accurate. DC’s tests, for example, show that his Kickr matches his power meters very well using the standard spindown.
Not yet…I can feel it though. I will try to find some time on the weekend to test (in between workouts). For now just using the KICKRs stated power.
After last night’s ride, I am pretty convinced however that the power issue does not lie with the KICKR but with the Vector Pedals. I am beginning to think my mechanic didn’t torque them sufficiently after bring my bike in for its yearly stripdown.
Fwiw…the vast majority of shops don’t do it correctly. The number of times folks e-mail and their shop said “We tightened them enough and didn’t need a torque wrench”, I want to take the torque and use it for something else…
Chris –
I had the same issue w/Kickr reading 20W higher than my Quark. I was able to solve by doing the calibration using the Wahoo App instead of using VirtualTraining spin down. My watts are now within 2-3 of the powermeter. I suspect something might be off in either the API for calibration or the software vendors implementation of the API.
D.
David, I get the same results whether I calibrate it with the Wahoo app or Trainer Road.
Hi,
Trying to use my KICKR via Golden Cheetah and it isn’t showing on the Add device wizard (has add ANT+, computrainer and tacx). I thought that with Bluetooth 4.0 on my near new iMac (<1 year old) this would be the right form of bluetooth. Is that not the case and if so do I need to buy the dongle as per above? (don't want to buy to only find it is some setting I haven't configured.
Cheers.
Your iMac should have BTLE but as Shion mentioned below, Golden Cheeta is not currently supporting BTLE. An ANT+ USB stick should do the trick!
Hey Emlyn,
I thought the same (that it should work out of the box) but as it turns out, the Golden Cheetah developers had some issues with Bluetooth 4.1 support, canceled it and are now focusing to release versions with ANT+ support in the next months:
link to groups.google.com|sort:date|spell:false/golden-cheetah-users/CoTfMGqQIIk/AzKa714FqCoJ
So in short: no, there is no Kickr support on OS X with Bluetooth only. There are some links of old developer versions with built-in Kickr support floating around the internet, but so far all I found are dead links. I use Trainerroad now for training, Golden Cheetah for analysis only.
hello ray , i jave a quick question do you have a good contact a wahho i orderd yesterday a wahoo kickr with 24 h shipping, because i live in brazil and have someone in the us this week and he is willing to bring it with him. so bought payed the extra 150 us for shipmemt, and guess what today i got an email saying they will ship in about 4 weeks , no message at all on the website when i bought it, i realy would like to have it but i need it by friday at the expected adress…if not its to late, and even if they decide to refound me it stIl wil cost me 6% of the total value , this is what brazilian goverment charge you if you pay outside of brazil something with your credit crad..
so thanks for your help
marc@steingrand.com
Hi Marc,
You should be able to reply to the email from Wahoo. This will put you in touch with Cris who can help get you sorted out!
Best regards,
Brad
Hi
There is something I don’t get about the robustness of the KICKR: most people say that it is a sturdy device, however when I look at it I see that the whole weight is supported by that thin blue “arm” used to adapt the trainer to the size of the bike/wheel. Is that blue thingy that robust ?
Thanks and regards,
Mihai
The blue thing is a giant hunk of steel (or, some other heavy metal), definitely not going to easily break/bend.
Good luck trying to brake it ;)
I’ve noticed strange “speed” data from my Kickr. TrainerRoad controls my Kickr beautifully via ANT+. And I capture power, cadence, HR on my Garmin 910XT and via TrainerRoad.
On an easy recovery ride on my new Kickr (calibrated just before), I was at 150 watts at 90rpm. And it was reporting 28mph. This is too fast. Is there a CdA or other setting that would adjust speed at a given power?
Then, just for fun, I slowed to 80rpm, staying at 150W. The reported speed fell to about 25mph. Why would that be? Same wattage.
Then for the last 10 mins, I was at a silly wattage of just 102 watts, at 85 rpm. And the speed was reported to be 32 mph! What the heck.
I’m a new Kickr user, so I must have something misconfigured.
Hi Dave,
You should not be looking at speed as the KICKR is applying the same resistance no matter what your gearing. For example, I always put it on the granny gear (makes the KICKR extremely quiet) and even when I am pushing out 300 watts/95-100 rpms my speed registers no higher than 23-25km/h. I believe wahoo said they are working on a firmware update that will give you a better approximate speed. For now I would suggest that you put it on a gear that best represents your speed/wattage. But again, for example I was riding outside on the weekend extremely windy conditions, at times I was pushing 250ish watts and traveling 25 km/h, but then with a little tail wind, wattage drops way down and I was going 40km/h. So the power is only there to tell you how hard you are working, not how fast you are going. Hope this helps. I am a newbies (2 years) to the sport so if anyone notices some inaccuracies, please correct me so I also know in the future.
Is it possible to perform a RAMP test using this system? So… for the unit to automatically increase the required wattage by 10w each min for a given cadence? Looking at the info posted here it would seem that in theory this would be done using the ‘erg’ mode.
Yes, you can do it in ERG mode.
Hi
Anyone got any experiences using a stages power meter and Garmin Edge 510 to measure heart, speed, cadence and power as opposed to using anything from the Kickr itself?
I’d rather have my usual setup for recording this data so it’s consistent when on the road.
Is this possible?
At present, the KICKR doesn’t broadcast the speed independently as an ANT+ speed source. So while you can definitely pair to the Stages PM and use it indoors, you won’t get any speed from the trainer (which, honestly, doesn’t much matter from a training standpoint indoors).
Is there anything new to know about the kickr, any new updates coming down the pipeline I should wait for before I buy one? I broke my fluid 2 this morning after 8 years, so sad.
Nothing new noted. I would expect that like other Wahoo products, you’ll see software updates to add new functionality (such as the long talked about ‘bridge’ mode, like the RFLKT+).
Very helpful article Ray thanks. Any new apps released where you can load a gpx file, for example an IM course and ride it on the Kickr whilst it adjusts to the course profile. Just ordered one.
I believe with Kinomap, you can create a blank video with just the GPX file that will do the trick. Don’t have it handy at the moment though.
Has anyone sourced a suitable lead to use from a car cigarette lighter to power the unit? I’ve seen references to them but cannot find them on wahoo site and i’m not sure of the exact size of the piece that plugs into the trainer.
Hi Scott,
Wahoo Fitness recommends the adapter have an in-line fuse of at least 3 amperes. The Bell Automotive 22-1-39063-8 Universal Radar Detector Power Cord Adapter Kit has the correct plug and a 5 ampere in-line fuse.
Best regards,
Kyle
Stoked that my wife bought me this for my birthday!
Set it up and ready to go…. ALAS it does not connect to any of my devices using any software. Wahoo Fitness app – nothing. Wahoo Utility – nothing. Trainerroad – nothing.
Neither ANT+ or Bluetooth seems to connect.
Have emailed support and company purchased off, but considering the potential time for a response, ANYONE have any suggestions?
Cheers…
Hi Dave,
Plugged in to power? Make sure the green light is on the power brick.
What device are you trying?
Wahoo Support should get back to you today, or you could try calling the phone support if you want it sorted ASAP.
Hi Murray
Thanks for the speedy reply.
The green light is on. The power cord is correctly inserted.
I’ve tried iPhone 5. iPad Air. MacBook Air. The MacBook with ant and Bluetooth.
Nothing coming up for any of them.
Pretty disappointed at present but no doubt we can work it out!
Cheers.
Hi Dave,
Have you resolved this problem? I’m experiencing the same thing. My KICKR was working just the other day and now it cannot be detected at all by any of my devices.
Regards
Hi guys
Please can you help us. We are a couple of friends who bought this trainer. We also bought new I-pads and also the sufferfest vids and the cadence and HR monitors. This project has cost us a lot of money.
The problem now is that we do not have a working app for the I-pads in which we can combine the ERG files and the sufferfest vids. We have to adjust manually which kind of sucks and defies the whole point of spending so much money.
Is there any existing I-pad application that I can import the sufferfest ERG files into that will allow me to ride and also plan training like trainerroad does for android?
We have limited bandwidth so kinomaps etc is out. We live in South Africa.
Thx
Ray – Now that you have a Wahoo Kickr, do you still use your Lemond Revolution?
No, though, I rarely did anyway.
Hi
I noticed a small angular play at the Kickr’s disk (the disk which contains many holes in it) – please see the following video
I wonder if other Kickr owners have noticed this angular play on their trainer.
Thanks and regards,
Mihai
Totally normal, its designed like that.
Hi
I have a question. Is it safe to use a carbon bike on the trainer. Does it cause fatigue/harm the bike. What is your advise based in your experience.
Thanks
Cheers
Hugo
I was using very heavily this particular carbon Specialized Tarmac on Lynx trainer for more than 3 years. No problems so far. Of course during summer bike rides outside ;) Granted the mount type is different than the one used for KICKR. Here is the pic:
link to s3.amazonaws.com
No issues. There’s some comments far above about it as well, and I’ve confirmed it with a handful of major frame manufacturers as well.
Finally, keep in mind that every Pro Team is riding trainers outside their RV’s at every race. Given the bike companies are sponsors, if this was an issue it would have been stopped long ago…
Hi Ray
You confirmed with these manufacturers about Carbon frames only, or did you confirm that also the Aluminium frames are not endangered when ridden on trainers ? Because for instance there is Felt who says something about this (although they mention Carbon seatstays with Alu dropouts, not 100% Alu frames. Also, the Lynx trainer picture that Kostya posted above shows a type of trainer which does not seem to put stress on the seatstays (where most of the bodyweight falls because of push on the pedals), but on the fork, and even there a large part of the stress seems diminished because the body of the frame can “flap” sideways (the seatstays not being held by the trainer).
Best regards,
Mihai
I recently purchased the Wahoo Kickr trainer and I have a question about how the ERG mode works (especially with TrainerRoad). It seems when a certain power level is set I have to pedal at a very high cadence to keep it. The issue I am seeing is that once I hit a certain speed and cadence there is no pressure being applied to the chain since its moving too fast. Is it correct to then slow down a little so more pressure can be applied to the chain? I would figure that the Kickr would adjust the resistance of the trainer so it would be harder for me to pedal therefore keeping pressure on the chain. It may be that I need to get used to how the trainer works, im just trying to better understand how its supposed to work.
Thank you,
Jon
How high an RPM are you talking?
I am not exactly sure, my cadence usually comes from my PowerTap. I know its the highest cadence I have ever done, I start to shift from side to side to keep up to pedaling. I have a cadence sensor on its way so I can measure it. The bike is in the hardest gear and the Wahoo Kickr is reporting that I am going 35 MPH, that seems like a really high speed, but since I am new to the Kickr that could be a normal speed.
Jon
It depends a bit on how high a cadence we’re talking. i.e. if we’re looking at 150RPM or higher, sometimes the slight surges in power you’ll see trainers ‘slack’ for a sub-second or so.
Hi Jonathan,
It sounds to me it might just need a spin down. When in ERG Mode it will hold the same power output at and cadence/speed, you just pedal and the KICKR does all the work. If you find your are needing to spin faster to keep the power up then its not working correctly. Try a spin down and if not please email our support and one of our team will help you sort it out.
I have done alot of research regarding bike trainers and I came to a conclusion that the Wahoo Kickr is what I want most.
HOWEVER, it is still NOT available outside US/EU. I live in Hong Kong and see that Wahoo has a warehouse here also but I cannot find a dealer or anywhere that I can buy one.
Summer is here and I really need a trainer. Can you please tell me where I can buy one with the Campy Kit also? Otherwise I may have to revert to bkool which looks second best to me.
Hi,
I bought mine on the apple store. I don’t know if the apple store is available in HK but you can try.
link to tinyurl.com
Olivier
The HK apple store does not carry this item unfortunately. I checked :(
Hi, reference the cadence
Do I need to buy a wahoo blue SC to be able to see my cadence whilst using wahoo kickr?
I’m no techo geek but as there will be wheel on the back therefore no magnet will it still show cadence?
As I have also seen the CADENCE ONLY sensor with no magnets, when will this be back in stock?
Thanks
Mike
Yes, you still need the Blue SC. The magnet on the wheel was/is for speed (not cadence), whereas the magnet on your crank arm is for cadence. :)
I ended up buying the BKOOL Trainer from a local dealer. So Far I am loving it. Great Package for the Great Price! Easy to Setup and Cadence/Speed Sensor all Included.
Good Luck Wahoo. Great work on global distribution like we never existed. *thumbs down*
As a newy to Kickr having changed from 10 years with CompuTrainer, two disappointments have registered straight away. I’m using it with PerfPro studio and have found that short interval sessions of 15 thru 30 seconds are now pretty ineffective as the load application is too slow and not instantaneous like the CT. The Kickr load is still on the way up when the interval has finished. So it seems to me it has training limitations unless there is a setting that can change this that I haven’t found yet..
Secondly the noise is very much louder than a CT and akin to a police siren in the not too far distance. Most unpleasant.
You may want to try the default Wahoo App and see how quickly it changes the resistance, as it shouldn’t take quite that long.
Do you use the small chainring or the big chainring ? I noticed if I use the big one I have more noise than of the small one and more vibration too. Otherwise on the small chainring, the noise is very low. I also put my kickr on EVA mat like this one :
link to amazon.com
Olivier
Thank you both for that. The noise issue is on both chain rings but I have it mounted on an ex CT base board and wonder if it’s resonance from the vibes in that causing amplification. I will try it on concrete and see if that works.
Re the short internal matter tech support have told me that they are addressing the issue and it could be fixed in the next FW upgrade. So will have to make do until then.
I’m not too familiar with PerfPro, but in trainerroad you can choose the level of power smoothing you want (none, 3 sec, 5 sec, and 7 sec). I keep mine set to 3 seconds to smooth out a lot of the noise. What I’m not sure of is if this has some effect on how long it takes the trainer to react to intervals. With power smoothing set to 3 sec, my trainer takes 3 to 5 seconds to ramp up power. It’s not a problem, however, as you get the same lag on the back end of the interval, so it’s not like the interval is any shorter. I do 15 to 30 second micro-burst workouts all the time and it’s not a problem.
Just noticed that Wahoo now provides an option to calibrate the Kickr ($100) by using a precision weight and mounting bar. Has anyone used this accessory? Included is an iPad calibration instruction video to walk you through the process.
If the spin down test is a valid way of calibrating the Kickr, would this additional piece of hardware need to be added for increased accuracy? Since I use a Powertap G3 wheel set outside, I have no way of comparing the two. Some have suggested using 2 FTP numbers, or purchasing a Stages or SRM crank. I’m not in favor of either option.
Alan
I am curious about the calibration kit as well.
I just received my kickr and paired it with trainer road in erg mode in hopes of some accurate interval workouts. I immediately felt my cadence too high and my efforts too easy despite the power numbers. I ran spin down tests several times including when the kikr was well warmed up.
So I ran it against my srm (which had been recently calibrated) and indeed my kickr watts were reading 50-60 watts above my srm.
Wahoo support suggested I buy a calibration kit to “validate” my calibration. grrrrr!
If I do calibrate it using the bar and weight can I be certain that I will get accurate numbers? Any help?
Thinking this trainer is not for me