Okey doke. Before we dive into Interbike next week, I figured I’d round up some loose ends with Eurobike’s minor power meter updates and announcements. Or rather, by popular demand as it were – you decided on Twitter last night that you wanted to hear about power meters! Don’t worry Magnum and Lezyne, you’ll get your day in the spotlight shortly.
This post is somewhat of an ‘odds and ends’ pile of power meter related news. Typically for major announcements I’ll put them into dedicated posts. This year, that was the following lineup:
A look at the new Power2Max NG power meters
PowerPod rolls out ANT+/Bluetooth Smart version, improved road surface algorithms
First Ride: Quarq’s New DZero Power Meter Series
A Look at Luck’s Cycling Shoe Power Meter
However, sometimes announcements that were more probably major announcements (like the P1S left-only pedals below) end up in the round-up as the week goes on, sleep disappears, and my level of enthusiasm for more writing posts wanes. Such is life.
PowerTap P1S Left-Only Pedals:
It’s been about 18 months since PowerTap first announced the PowerTap P1 pedals. It wasn’t until about a year ago (fall 2015) that distribution started flowing, and really wasn’t until this past spring (2016) that orders fully caught up with demand. However, with the company on top of demand now, they’ve introduced a left-only variant of the popular P1 pedals – the P1S.
This is essentially the same thing that Garmin, Polar, and who knows how many others have done in terms of taking what was a dual-leg offering and making a single-leg offering.
The P1S is $699USD, and will be available later this year (2016). If you want to later upgrade that to a dual-sensing (left/right pedals) system you can do so. The exact price of that upgrade hasn’t been determined yet, but it sounds like it’ll basically be a wash vs buying the full set up front (meaning, it won’t cost you any extra than it would have to buy dual initially). But again, that’s the initial plans. Below with the orange cap is the one with the power meter goodness, while the black cap has no goodness.
Within the box, you’ll find both a left and right pedal – so everything will look nice and tidy. It’s just that the right side will be empty in terms of power meter goodness. Again, this is identical to what Garmin and Polar have done with their pedal solutions.
In addition, PowerTap rolled out their Advanced Pedal Metrics that they hinted at last spring. I actually spent a bit of time with this over the summer from time to time. These metrics give you additional pedal stroke data in roughly the same vein as what Garmin, Verve Pioneer, and Rotor have done. Below are some screenshots:
Now the one catch here is that these metrics are only displayable with an iOS app, and it’s essentially something you’d do in real-time. There isn’t an option to display the data afterwards. The functionality at this time is more focused on bike fit than post-ride analysis. The app update is free though, and the firmware needed is already in the pedals you have today.
Side Note: You can now pre-order the PowerTap P1S from Clever Training. Like almost everything else you buy there, you’ll save 10% using the DCR Coupon Code DCR10BTF, plus you’ll get free US shipping. And of course, it supports the site here and makes you awesome.
SRM’s New Crank Arms:
Next, we’ve got some new crank arms out by SRM. Previously SRM has focused on putting together a package that’s compatible with a given crank arm type (i.e. Shimano, SRAM, ROTOR, etc…). But now they’ve introduced their own lineup for crank arms. This is inline with what we saw Stages do a few years ago actually.
The reason? Greater bike frame compatibility.
As more and more of the major crank-arm/set manufacturers are now also power meter companies (SRAM, Rotor, Shimano, and probably soon others too) – there’s little incentive for these companies to make it easier for other power meter companies to offer greater bike compatibility. Rather, these companies will simply do it themselves and cut the power meter middleman. That’s all combined with aero-focused bikes becoming more and more complex for component makers to adapt 3rd party parts to.
These first sets of carbon cranks are made by THM, and are integrated with their existing spider product. They didn’t have prices for their carbon ones, though they did have a €1,728 price point for their aluminum ones.
In addition, I did ask about where the rechargeable unit they touted from a few years ago stood – and it sounds like there are no immediate plans at this point, which echoes what they said last year at Eurobike/Interbike.
At Interbike, I’ll cover more of the software announcements they’ve had – so stay tuned there!
Shimano’s Updated Prototypes:
This next one’s a quickie! I just wanted to point out that Shimano did indeed have their previously announced power meter not only on display at Eurobike, but also a single bike was quietly floating around the outdoor demo area. That version can be seen below:
You’ll remember they announced this back in late June just prior to the Tour de France, but at the time didn’t actually have any samples on-hand at the event. So this is a solid improvement on that.
The timelines from multiple people I’ve talked to still sound like next spring sometime (assuming nothing goes wrong), so it’s definitely not a near-term option if you’re in the market.
Stages & Campy Plans:
Another quickie here – which is merely to note that Stages has suspended timelines for their Campagnolo power meter offerings, which they initially announced last year at Eurobike.
Officially there isn’t any specific reason given here, but multiple people in the power meter industry I’ve talked to have noted how ‘challenging’ the carbon is on the Campy crank arms, specifically noting that the variability is throwing many power meter attempts for a loop. I suspect Stages is in that same loop-de-loop. Stages seemed to have validated that to a DCR Reader when he asked back in August, getting an answer via Facebook of:
“Unfortunately, that information was released when we had several working prototype units. When it came time to start production, some serious issues were uncovered, and we currently have no plans to release Campy based power meters. We will only release product when we can be sure that we are producing reliable, accurate, and durable power meters.”
On the bright side for them, they announced a pretty cool head unit – so check that out here.
Who was silent?
Of course, there are a number of players that weren’t officially at Eurobike, or didn’t announce anything at Eurobike. Just to let ya know that I haven’t forgotten about them, let’s round them up here:
Pioneer: I’d look ahead to next week at Interbike, where they traditionally have made announcements.
4iiii: They announced a bunch of stuff back at Sea Otter in April, they’re still working to get dual-sided out the door. They will be at Interbike though.
ROTOR: They also made their announcements this past spring, so nothing new there other than shipping.
WatTeam: They were not at Eurobike, and aren’t officially slated to be at Interbike. But, it does sound like they’ll be floating around – so I’ll be looking to catch-up with them there.
LIMITS: They started shipping some units since Eurobike, though the jury seems to be rather variable on accuracy. You can see the comments section on my LIMITS accuracy post for more details.
Garmin: Nothing new at Eurobike on the Vector power meter front, and I don’t really expect anything new at Interbike either.
Look: They announced their dual ANT+/BLE units last year, and were demo’ing them at Eurobike this year. Nothing new otherwise though.
Polar: While Polar is still technically selling their Look partnership created power meters, I think it’s pretty clear that collaboration is dead since Look has done their own thing now – leaving Polar with an outdated and overpriced offering.
Of course, again, remember the list of companies at the beginning of the post that I already covered in dedicated posts.
With that – thanks for reading and have a good weekend! Next week will kickoff Interbike, plus things like GoPro’s announcements on Monday. Good times for sure!
P.S. – Looking for the annual power meter recommendation post? It’ll come out Tuesday, Sept 26th. Basically following the Interbike show to take into account any new announcements there. Enjoy!
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Looks good.
On the Powertap single pedal, am I right in thinking that the price you quote is more than the Garmin vector single sided one ?
What sense does that make ?
Correct. Garmin Vector 2S is $599 for that one-leg option. I think a $100 premium for the P1S is fair, given that it’s dual ANT+/BLE (so somewhat future proof), and is also pod-less and you don’t need a torque wrench to install it.
Practically salivating waiting for your 2016 Power Meter Review. Did I read correctly that you speculated there could be such a thing as a dual sided pedal based power meter in the next 12-18 months in the $500 range??? Now I’m conflicted. Been crazy busy so nothing installed, and I still have an unopened Garmin Vector 2S in the box that I snagged for $450 on sale earlier this month. Based on the P1 original reviews, I would have preferred the single sided Powertap P1s, but it didn’t exist at the time, and now that it does it is still going for $250 more than what I paid for Vector. I don’t really NEED a power meter at this moment, but jumped on the Vector 2s when I saw the price thinking it was too good to pass up. Now debating on sending it back and holding out for a year. I’m correct that your 2016 Power Meter review is going to suddenly clarify my decision and make the right choice crystal clear, right???? :-)
$700 power meter with 50 cent batteries = Profit
Ray any word if Powertap may create their own Connect app to record the above pedal stroke data for ANT+ devices like the 520/820/1000?
I asked them this question on a Facebook post they made and they came back to me and said that they would look into it.
It’s scheduled to come out after the Power Tap Android app, so I would look for it around the 12th of never.
As an android guy that has to borrow his wife’s phone to update his $1200 pedals, I’m not bitter at all. :-)
When you track down the Watteam folks, please remind them that the STILL have my (and I suspect many other folks) money. I have been patient, but come on and give us a working power meter.
Definitely noted!
Hi Ray,
As we’ve just discussed, we have finished our R&D of the new sensor, and are currently BETA testing it. We’ve figured out the temperature issue we were having, things look great at the lab and we feel ready to deliver the most attractive product in the industry. Dual sided measurement, accurate and consistent at a really fair price.
We are planning on shipping to all of our first batch customers our new sensors around Christmas time. Only then, we will start our pre-order list.
There will be lots of new and exciting surprises, including an MTB version!!
It’s really worth waiting, and we are always here for you, for any question you may have.
I said Watteam were f*cked a few months ago the minute i heard they were looking into things.
I got shot down in flames but I’m happy i was right now.
And at the time, I and others explained how you were wrong then too: link to dcrainmaker.com
Not sure how anything has changed since then – they’re still working on addressing the issues. Or did you want them to release a defective power meter? I’m confused.
Ray, will you be giving the new Power2Max NG power meter a go? Will this new power meter drive prices down on the S models?
Yup. It looks like that’ll happen later this fall once they get close to shipping.
Ray – whatever became of Brim Bros?
^ Sore subject. They are *still* struggling with production. I’m pretty chuffed about it. Checkout out their Project Updates on: link to kickstarter.com.
Daniel about summed it up.
Interested in the p1s (and eventually upgrading to p1). It’d be good if instead of having an upgrade kit they released left and right varieties so that if you had both and 2 bikes you had more options for those times you didn’t want to change pedals (eg sometimes you might be happy to have one power meter on each bike rather than a dual meter that you have to move or you would have non-power pedals for the other bike that worked well with your cleats)
Didn’t Garmin announce once, working on a MTB-version? Did they cancel work on it?
They had loosely talked about that likely being the next interest area for them back a few years ago, but never really saw that pan out. I’ve gotta believe a pod-less Vector will come next, since they’ve been slaughtered on Vector sales since the pod-less P1’s came out (not to mention dual ANT+/BLE).
Any word if PowerTap is going to release an Android App? The website used to have a blurb saying it was being worked on but it has been many months and I stopped looking. Some of us do not ride with an iPhone. I realize not a big deal but iOS app on my iPad sucks.
Anyone have a link to the new Powertap app of iOS? I can’t find it.
Here ya go: link to powertap.com
But it isnt the new version yet, isnt it?
Hmm, valid point, not yet.
Pretty mean trick Ray posting like the software was live. Any info when it actually goes from Rainbow Unicorn to in the App Store? Thanks
I´m betting sooner tha android users are getting the “regular” app
Yeah, i´m an android user.
The link for the iOS app is for the older version (may) with no advanced metrics. Or am I missing something?
Also not sure if this was addressed but will powertap or some Savy developer build an app/widget to take advantage of the advanced metrics in the pedals with garmin connect IQ?
Thanks
Should be available on Friday.
The new app dowloaded on my iPhone today, version 2.0.0 build 11. Thanks PowerTap!
Anything about Favero? Any updates, new version of their BePro
Nothing new from them, but I did chat with them leading into Eurobike – more just of a catch-up call than anything.
I’m looking forward to any news from Pioneer with Shimano entering the dual leg space and Stages announcing the Dash and Link. Stages will offer a very competitive offering to the market as Pioneer.
For the Dura Ace PM crank, do you know if what they are showing now is essentially what it’s going to look like on the production model? I’m concerned about clearance on my frame. Kind of looks like a Stages, but man it’s set pretty close to the pedal spindle on that left crank arm. My Emonda frame has very little clearance on the left chainstay, most of which is near the middle of the crank arm. I hope when the final production model is released, clearance issues for the majority of frames is addressed…
Any new on when/if 4iii will be launching a 105-version of their dual sided power meter?
Joel
I have undergone an ACL reconstruction ten months ago (so probably this leg is weaker) and I am looking for a powermeter on my Cannondale Supersix all-Garmin Ultegra (no BB30 on my midel!) for training purposes only to get stronger. I find all the different options very confusing. My budget is limited to roughly USD750 max. Any suggestions which one to go for?
Any News about the possibility upgrade from polar/LOOK Keo power pedals to LOOK keo power with ANT+ transmission?
They’re first on my list for Wednesday to bonk and ask that very question (since e-mails have since gone unanswered). I saw them at Eurobike, but they were busy each time.
Of the subject, but, can anyone tell me what the model number of the Shimano SPD pedal is in the pictures with the Shimano power meter?
Those are the Shimano PD-A530. I have them on my bike and they are great if you prefer 2 bolt recessed cleats to 3 bolt cleats on a road bike (I like being able to walk normally in my cycling shoes). They also have platforms on one side for rides without cycling shoes.
Anything on the Rotor 2Inpower powermeter? Curious to see if a review is in the works.
Nothing new at Eurobike, but I am sitting down with them at Interbike to finally finish filling out this media order form so I can get a unit in to test. Should have it in my hands next week.
Dear Ray.
Please answer in one word. No “it depends…..” Statements.
Powertap or Garmin single-sided.
Challenge laid down. Lol!!!!!
Seriously though…..
P1, because:
A) It has dual ANT+/BLE
B) It’s more portable than Vector
C) No torque wrench required
So does that mean that if you have no need for BLE (I don’t), and you generally always use a torque wrench for pedal installation (I do), it’s otherwise a wash?
Aesthetics aside, basically.
Well fiddlesticks Ray! (Please excuse my strong language) Despite having a Vector in hand, I find myself wanting the P1s! But why the wonky/proprietary cleat Powertap? Why not add some future proofing and go with a cleat that we know will be around forever (SP-DL or Look)? Something about the Garmin pods is bothering me. Will we see the P1s reach the $500 mark anytime soon?
I doubt we’ll see the P1S at $500 until WatTeam starts shipping and establishes itself as reliable.
(If I can fix my fan on my laptop today so it boots up, I’ve got a post sitting in drafts about just that…)
Cool, look forward to reading it.
Good news, I fixed my fan this evening after tearing apart my laptop. Better news: I wrote three posts after it, set to publish every four hours (the first one just published).
Hi Ray,
You may want to consider adding the P1S to your 2016 Buyers’ Guide – including the affiliate link. Took me a while to find this.
Andrew
I recently bought the P1S PowerTap left only product and note that both the Strava and Wahoo mobile apps do not work correctly. They both record exactly double the power when compared to PowerTap’s own mobile app which is now the only app / device I could find to work with the P1S product. Now I am looking for a bike computer (Edge 820, 100 etc.) and face the same concerns when a quick pairing experiment with a friends 1000 yielded an error from the Garmin. What can I do to ensure compatibility before buying??
Strava and Wahoo both do weird things with dual BLE power meters. :-/ For example, 4iiii even has a special mode for it that you can toggle in the app.
As for the Edge series, I’ve heard of nobody having doubling issues like that.
Hi DCR
I have gone with powertap P1s single side pedal,am using polar V650 computer,Bluetooth, get consistent power readings on all rides,only problem is reading to high coach tells me I am producing elite rider wattage 3.5-4.5wkg l am only 65 yrs age he is trying to find out from ptap and polar re issues no progress yet can you throw any light on issue cheers?
Have you done a zero offset with it (while not clipped in)?