(**Update: The Tacx NEO has been superseded by the Tacx Neo 2T. Check out that link for the latest In-Depth Review on the Smart Trainer**)
Over the past few weeks Tacx has released two new trainers, the Tacx NEO and the Tacx Genius Smart. While both of these trainers have similar technical capabilities, the actual hardware aspects of them are dramatically different. One (the Genius Smart) looks like most traditional trainers that Tacx has built prior, and has similar specs. Meanwhile, the Tacx NEO is unlike anything that Tacx has previously done. It goes in the direction of direct drive (versus a rear wheel), while also claiming to be virtually silent.
But is it really silent? And at $1,599/€1,399 is it worth the substantial premium over other trainers on the market, including offerings from Tacx themselves? This post is a first look at everything you might need to know to make that decision. It’s not a full in-depth review, as I just haven’t had enough time yet on the final production unit to make that determination and to be able to have really dug into every last detail – so do keep that in mind.
The Executive Overview:
Short on time? No problem – here’s the low-down…with a tiny bit of relevant history. Tacx has effectively gone for gold over the last year when it comes to trainers. They started their train last year at Eurobike (one year ago) with the release of the Smart Trainer series. This was really their first attempt at getting away from locked in software and hardware. That line-up included broadcasting on both open ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart channels of power, speed, and cadence. They did this not just at the higher end products, but rather starting at the cheaper Satori Smart unit, costing $469.
Next, fast forward to this June when Tacx became the first to announce and (in the same day) implement the ANT+ FE-C trainer control protocol. This allowed 3rd party apps to fully control the Tacx line using ANT+. Within days the vast majority of ANT+ capable trainer apps announced adoption too. Then, followed the rest of the higher end trainer industry – now with Bkool, Elite, and Wahoo.
Where we get to now is the Tacx NEO. Previous to this Tacx had higher end trainers, but they never really felt higher end. They just felt…cumbersome. They relied upon software from the company that had a history of being buggy (albeit has improved over the last 12-18 months). With the NEO though, they’ve made something that’s anything but cumbersome. A beast perhaps, but a really pretty looking beast. And one that feels more like the road than any past Tacx trainers.
The NEO weighs in at 48lbs/21kg, the heaviest trainer that I’m aware of to date. With that weight also comes features; it’s ANT+ FE-C capable and then also broadcasts on ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart for Speed, Power, and Cadence. This means it’ll work with any apps or devices that are compliant with those standards.
What differentiates the NEO though from something like the Wahoo KICKR are two main aspects: Downhill drive, and noise. Or rather, lack thereof. First, the noise from the unit is pretty close to silent. At least the NEO itself – your bike is still going to make some noise, namely the chain.
Then you’ve got downhill drive – this means the unit will actually simulate downhill sections more accurately than a trainer that will just coast to a stop when you stop pedaling going ‘downhill’. This same functionality is also found on their new Tacx Genius Smart. Of course, it’s not quite perfect – but it’s better than instantly stopping.
Now, all of this goodness does come at a price. Literally – some $1,600USD (or €1,400). That’s super pricey for a trainer, and about $500 more than the Wahoo KICKR is today (depending on cassette version that’s included). And the Tacx NEO doesn’t even include a cassette, so that’ll set you back another $50-70USD (for a basic Ultegra variant).
There are also some short-term app compatibility differences, where the KICKR has the edge in most cases (though not all), that I discuss later in the post. I think the road feel is largely the same, though some with more refined trainer palates might have different opinions. So really, the main thing you’re going to want to weigh is how valuable the noise aspect is to you. Do you need silence? Or is your standard trainer noise levels acceptable?
Availability for the NEO will be roughly mid to late September for the European markets, and the US following about 4-6 weeks later in mid-late October. The reason for the difference is simple: The trainer is made in the Netherlands (Europe) and thus it takes about a month for the shipping containers to make it to the US via boat.
Inside the Box:
I picked up one of the first production units from the Tacx folks while at Eurobike last week. Actually, production unit #6 to be precise. Like any other product I test, it’ll eventually go back to them. I ended up unboxing it at the DCR Eurobike RV, simply because that’s what I had available. But since it had silly-few parts, I actually put it back together nicely and unboxed it again in the DCR Cave – so I’ll give you those pictures since they a little less redneck.
Thus, this unit comes in this well structured box. I found it travels reasonably well. First, I had to drag the thing across the massive Eurobike show floor. Then, we actually chucked it over an 8’ tall fence (seriously, we looked highly sketchy) since it was less work than going all the way around the perimeter. Then I hauled it across down the road a few hundred more meters. Then it bumped around the RV for a long weekend, before I did another fiasco of a dance getting it a thousand more kilometers on the train/uber/etc back home. And yet, it still looks pretty.
Once you remove the box you’ll see the unit folded up just like one of those space movie fighter jets:
There’s also a small pile of boxed parts, which include the power adapter, manual, trainer skewer, and then some cassette end caps.
The power supply is dual voltage, so you can use it anywhere in the world.
To complete your install, you’ll first just unfold the wings down. As you do so you’ll see it’ll change from red to blue, indicating they’re locked in place. Little buttons on the backside allow you to fold it back up.
Then, you’ll go find a cassette for the unit and install it like installing any other bike cassette. This piece is a bit of a pain in the ass, because most consumers won’t have the right tools to do this. And because it’s yet one more thing you need to buy. I’d really like to see Tacx offer models with the cassettes included for a tiny bit more.
Once the cassette is installed you’ll slide through the included skewer. Then, you’ll go ahead and plug it into a wall:
With that, you’re ready to ride.
Features & Functionality:
With setup complete we’ll walk through some basic features, first on the hardware side and then on the software side. You’ll have noticed that the unit sits up off the ground in the center. It’s kinda neat – and feels like it’s built like a tank. So despite effectively ‘hovering’ in the middle, I’ve got no concerns of breakage.
As you’ll have noticed, there’s no rear wheel here. This is a direct drive trainer, which means that you remove your rear wheel on your bike to attach to the trainer. This reduces wear and tear on your bike’s wheel, as well as virtually eliminates slippage issues that can sometimes happen at steep grades on conventional trainers.
However the downside to this is that it can be a bit finicky to connect the bike to the trainer, especially if you have a bike (such as my triathlon bike) that has rear-facing dropouts. Hardly impossible or difficult, but like the KICKR it can be a bit cumbersome at times. In general though, most folks would agree that direct drive trainers are usually preferred, but especially for harder efforts.
Next, at the front of the trainer there’s actually a light system that illuminates below the bike. This changes based on the intensity that you’re putting out.
Blue for less intensity, red for lots of power (and purple somewhere in the middle). It’s perhaps a bit cheesy, but it’s also kinda sorta really geeky cool.
Next, on the side of the trainer it has three lights showing you the state of three different features: ANT+, Bluetooth Smart, and whether it’s got power.
When you establish a Bluetooth Smart connection, the BLE light should illuminate. Whereas ANT+ is always broadcasting, so that’s sorta always on. And of course, if you don’t have power connected, you won’t get that turned on. You can actually use the trainer without power.
Now you’ll notice there’s no level or other way to manually control resistance – that all requires software and an app of some sort. That app could be a phone app, a desktop app, or even a bike computer like the Garmin Edge 520.
The Tacx NEO supports trainer control in one of three ways:
ANT+ FE-C: This is the ANT+ Fitness Equipment Control protocol, and is the new standard for the way ANT+ devices can control fitness equipment, namely trainers. Read up on that here. This is mainly for 3rd party apps and devices to control the trainer. You’ll see this mostly leveraged in desktop apps, some Android apps, and then some hardware devices like the Garmin Edge lineup.
Bluetooth Smart: This enables the trainer to be controlled using Bluetooth Smart. Today this isn’t yet open to 3rd parties widely, so most of this is to allow the native Tacx applications to talk to the trainer directly, mainly from iOS and Android mobile devices. Down the road, 3rd parties will start having access to this too (but there isn’t an open/agreed upon standard yet there for trainer control).
Tacx Existing Private-ANT Control: This is for existing Tacx applications to control the device, such as their Tacx Training Suite (TTS). That suite costs extra money though, so it’s not really something I’m going to focus on here.
All of the above methods are actually supported on all Tacx ‘Smart’ series trainers (except the Satori, since it doesn’t allow electronic control). Now when it comes broadcasting your information, that’s also accomplished via a few different methods:
ANT+ Speed, Power, and Cadence: The unit will broadcast your speed, power, and cadence as both a combined and separate channel for compatible devices to read and record. Devices include the entire Garmin lineup, PowerTap products, Suunto Ambit2 series, and many other ANT+ compatible devices. The appeal here is that you can record data onto devices you already have.
Bluetooth Smart Speed, Power, and Cadence: Just like ANT+, but with Bluetooth Smart instead. This makes it easy to connect devices from Polar, Suunto (Ambit3), and many iOS & Android apps that support Bluetooth Smart connectivity. Note that there can be some kinks still here due to the industry still settling a bit – especially with BLE power meters, but thus far things look pretty good on the Tacx front.
Tacx Existing Private-ANT: Like before, Tacx also broadcasts to its desktop apps using a different channel. This is mostly because those apps aren’t yet fully converted to ANT+ FE-C, but I suspect in time you’ll see that. If you aren’t using these Tacx desktop apps, this won’t really matter.
Again, the appeal to the above three options is that it basically completely covers you for any modern app/device you’ll use to connect to the Tacx Smart Trainers (i.e. the NEO). Plus, they’re totally open and easy for 3rd parties to support.
At this point you may wonder how this differs from something like the Wahoo KICKR. In short, it’s not much different. The one item of note is that the KICKR doesn’t communicate yet on ANT+ FE-C, but rather a fairly similar version that they’ve had for years (before ANT+ FE-C was released). It doesn’t matter yet much for 3rd party apps because virtually all of them support the KICKR using the Wahoo ANT variant, but it does matter for products like the Garmin Edge 520/1000, which only supports ANT+ FE-C and not the Wahoo variant.
Speaking of control, let’s talk about some of the basics. First is controlling the unit. By default you can just use some of the basic (free) Tacx apps, available on iOS or Android. For example, here’s their phone iOS app, which allows you basic power and resistance control, by setting the slope and power levels. While their iPad app expands that and allows purchasing videos at a reasonable price (about $10 per video), as well as a deeper interval/workout creator. Not too shabby.
But I really think the strength of the Tacx Smart trainer lineup (and any other trainers that embrace openness) is the 3rd party app compatibility. Out of the box it works with Zwift. It works with TrainerRoad, and it works with the Edge 520. And for that matter, any other app that’s implemented the ANT+ FE-C.
Astute followers will remember last week when I did a live Zwift session on Periscope for about 20 minutes at night during Eurobike from the DCR RV. In fact, you can even do this without any power at all to the trainer.
But I needn’t be in a parking lot to do that, Zwift connects right up instantly as long as you have an ANT+ USB stick plugged into your computer:
And TrainerRoad does much the same, again, just needing an ANT+ USB stick for the PC version, or the ANT+ adapter for the iOS platform.
With FE-C support on the Garmin Edge 520 (and soon the Edge 1000), you can also use that to control the trainer. During both sound test videos that I did, I used the Garmin Edge 520 to control the trainer directly from the head unit.
This allows you to do anything from re-riding a ride you’ve done outdoors, a ride you’ve downloaded, or just setting a wattage to follow a specific structured workout.
Now the Bluetooth Smart 3rd party app side, which would be leveraged by apps such as those on iOS or Android is a bit less clear. Major 3rd party trainer app developers have been working with Tacx to get support covered, and Tacx says they’re working on getting something more formal in place as well. But neither have firmly put a date on things.
I suspect the reason is that there isn’t yet an official Bluetooth Smart control standard for trainers. Wahoo does it one way, PowerTap another, and Tacx yet something else. Today, apps like Kinomap and Trainer Road simply work with these manufacturers to bake-in support for each trainer company’s variants. I expect to see that occur here as well, and find it hard to believe that won’t be in place prior to shipping units to consumers.
(Just to be really clear here, you can still use Bluetooth Smart to control the trainer with the default Tacx apps. And, you can use Bluetooth Smart to connect to the trainer and read power/speed/cadence from any 3rd party app today. It’s only control via Bluetooth Smart by 3rd party apps that’s lacking today.)
So what about trainer feel? Well the unit feels cleaner and more smooth than any other past Tacx trainer I’ve used (and I’ve got a boatload of them). Because there’s no rear wheel, there’s no slippage. Plus, the unit will simulate descents. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than nothing as the rear ‘wheel’ won’t just stop when you stop pedaling. This is obviously most notable when descending down steeper hills, such as on a real course video or on Zwift.
It feels as close to riding on a road as other products aimed at replicating that (Wahoo KICKR, Elite Real Turbo Muin, Lemond Revolution). I’m not sure I’d declare one a winner over the other. I think one minor thing the NEO has going for it though is a slight bit more lateral movement than the others. You can actually just tilt it a tiny bit side to side (perhaps 1cm), whereas the KICKR is more locked down.
This allows you a little bit more realistic feel when sprinting or climbing, as the bike sways that little bit. But I wouldn’t really let that be a deciding factor. It’s still not riding outside. There’s no wind in your hair, nor squirrels to dodge. Perhaps I’m a bit more cynical there when folks talk about true road feel on trainers, as for me…it’s still a trainer. Just, a really nice trainer (albeit one that can sorta simulate downhill).
Noise, Weight, and Size:
Next we’ll look at the noise. There’s of course immense interest in this, given the claims of near silence of the trainer. Sure, Tacx produced an emotional ad showing you out in cow fields – complete with an elegant British voice to make it sound smarter and lots of fancy manufacturing imagery. But at the end of the day – is it really silent?
Well, mostly.
About the only thing you’re going to hear on the trainer is your bike parts moving and a very slight electronic hum. For your bike, the chain and its interaction with your front chainring and rear cassette on the trainer will make noise. Not much, and not enough to be heard in the apartment next door.
But rather than try to explain it in text, I’ve put together two videos showing it. The first is a sound comparison against the Wahoo KICKR – simply because that’s what most folks are interested in. In this video I’m in about as non-noise friendly environment as I can think of. No trainer mats, no carpeting, just the echo-chamber of the DCR Cave:
Next, we shift over to the DCR Eurobike RV rental, where I filmed this inside to again cover noise and volumes:
As you can see – it’s pretty darn quiet. It’d be hard to be upset with those volume levels.
About the only thing you could potentially be upset about is the weight. It’s a beast. It tops in at 48 pounds (22 kilograms). You really don’t want to be moving this thing very far very often.
It’s a bit awkward to move because it lacks a handle like the KICKR has. Though once you get the right hold on it, it’s not too bad for short trips:
Next, there’s the size. The unit has precisely two positions: Folded and unfolded. The clasps keep it firmly locked in either position, so there’s no worries about snapping your fingers in the unit. Here’s the folded up position:
And here’s the unfolded (trainer mode) position:
And here’s a nifty animated GIF of everything:
Changing the position is pretty easy and only takes a few seconds. Finally, to compare it against the Wahoo KICKR in size, you’ll see that it dwarfs it. Which is quite an accomplishment, since the Wahoo KICKR always felt kinda big previously (in a good way). Now it looks sorta tiny.
Now of course one of the things with trainers is that weight and materials are important to both stability and long term reliability. I can’t at this point speak to how well it’ll hold up in 5 or 8 years. But it (like the KICKR) is built like a tank. It’s built to take a beating. Which is what you want. You don’t want a tipsy trainer, so you want something that can have a wide base (even if it folds up like the NEO and KICKR). Similarly, you don’t want something with cheap materials that will break after years of placing your bike on and off (and the usual banging that comes with it). So you want to be leery of thinner plastics or moving parts made out of thin plastic (i.e. some levers). I’m not seeing any obvious breakpoints at this stage with the NEO.
Comparing the Tacx NEO:
As you can see above, the Tacx lineup of Smart branded trainers has certainly grown (though, it’s got nothing on the quantity of 16 trainers that Elite has in their 2015-2016 lineup). But I think Tacx has done a better job at creating products at different price points. Here’s the basic levels – note that all of these trainers broadcast in dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart:
Tacx Satori Smart ($469): Basic trainer that has manual lever to control resistance, but still broadcasts ANT+/BLE and can be calibrated for accuracy.
Tacx Vortex Smart ($629): Least expensive trainer they offer that includes electronic resistance control, and support of ANT+ FE-C (plus the same ANT+/BLE broadcasting).
Tacx Bushido Smart ($959): Same as Vortex, except that it can push a quite a bit more watts and a steeper incline and doesn’t require a power cable, it’s self powered by your pedaling
Tacx Genius Smart ($1,099): Can pump out more resistance again, but most importantly is able to drive the wheel forward to simulate downhill descents on the trainer.
Tacx NEO ($1,599USD): Their top of the line direct drive trainer, the only one they have that you remove the rear wheel. Highest levels of resistance offered by them.
Now I’m sure if you read a bunch of marketing materials they’ll sell you on slight resistance/max wattage levels of each trainer. But realistically you’re not going to need that. Unless you’re pumping out 1,000w+ on a regular basis, it’s just not likely to matter. If you are pumping out 1,000w – then you already know that. The incline differences can matter if you’re replicating Alpe d’Huez on a regular basis (for slippage), but otherwise you’ll likely not often notice.
In many ways I feel like aside from the NEO, the sweet spot in the Tacx lineup is at the Satori/Vortex levels. If you don’t need trainer control – the Satori is an excellent value. Whereas if you want trainer control, the Vortex is very solid and well priced. I don’t find all that much value in not having to plug in my trainer, nor do I find a ton of value in simulating downhill sections. But that may be because much of my trainer time is with wattage-focused workouts. Perhaps as I do more and more Zwift sessions that’d change.
So what about comparing it to the Wahoo KICKR or the Elite Real Turbo Muin? Well, that’s tricky. The KICKR and Elite Turbo Muin are roughly in the same ballpark price-wise, in the $1,100-$1,200 range. Whereas the Tacx NEO is at $1,600USD. Note that Euro prices are a bit different, so keep that in mind – but generally the Tacx NEO is more competitively priced in Europe to the Elite units.
The biggest short-term challenge the NEO has is 3rd party iOS apps (without adapters). They haven’t yet published a way for those apps to talk to the NEO, whereas Wahoo has. And there’s 20+ apps today that support the KICKR, many on iOS. You can see my massive trainer app post from last year. Long term though, I think both Tacx and Elite will offer ways for apps to add support for Bluetooth Smart control, it’s just that’ll lag behind the KICKR which already has apps using it.
When it comes to the Elite Turbo Muin, it’s sorta in the same camp as the NEO for apps. Both have FE-C, so you’ll see all of the FE-C apps support both at the same time (i.e. Zwift, TrainerRoad, Kinomap, and others already). That list of ANT+ FE-C apps will only grow over the next few weeks. I’d be blown away if there’s any apps not supporting it by October, given the number of trainers that’ll support it.
So then it really comes down to noise. How much do you want near-silence? Is it worth $500? That’s up to you to decide (or perhaps, more accurately – your house mates and neighbors).
Frequently Asked Questions:
Here’s a round-up of what I expect will be frequently asked questions. I’ll update/add as I see repeat questions.
How much does it cost, and when it’s available?
The trainer is priced at $1,599USD, and €1,399. This does not include the cost of a cassette, which you’ll need to get elsewhere. Availability is planned for later this month (September) for Europe, and about 4-6 weeks later for North America. The delay in timelines is due to the product being shipped (via boat) from Europe to the US.
What is the weight of the unit?
48 pounds, or 22 kilograms.
What does power accuracy look like on the Tacx NEO?
I’m working to collect all that data, but it’s going to take a few more rides. After getting back to the DCR studio things look good thus far based on just glancing at multiple units, but I haven’t dug into the power files yet and most of the time I wasn’t recording all units yet at once. Expect to see me update this post with more data soon. It’ll include multiple power meters to better understand how things line up. Look for that by early next week.
Meanwhile, Tacx is initially claiming 2% accuracy, but is working to increase that claim to a higher accuracy level with 3rd party validation/testing.
Do you recommend the Tacx NEO or Wahoo KICKR?
I think it’s still too soon there, but see my comments in the previous section on things that might help you decide between them.
Which Garmin units can control the Tacx Smart trainers via ANT+ FE-C?
Today it’s the Edge 520, but Garmin has stated the Edge 1000 will get the update as well. However, the Edge 510 & Edge 810 will not be updated for ANT+ FE-C control. No other devices have been announced either.
So wait, are you saying my Garmin can’t connect to the Tacx NEO?
No, that’s NOT what I’m saying. Rather, only the Edge 520 & Edge 1000 can control it. All other Garmin devices can READ the data from it. So for example, the Edge 510 & Edge 810 can pair to the Tacx NEO’s ANT+ power/cadence/speed streams and display and record that data, just like any other ANT+ sensor.
What apps can control the Tacx NEO?
Any app that supports the ANT+ FE-C. Down the road, it sounds like Tacx will be working with 3rd party apps to get Bluetooth Smart control as well, but that’s not yet here today. You can check out my massive trainer app guide here from last year. I’ll be updating that later this fall.
To be clear, the apps made by Tacx today for iOS/Android can control the units directly using Bluetooth Smart.
What the heck is the Tacx “Upgrade Smart”? And should I buy it?
The Tacx ‘Upgrade Smart’ is basically just a bundle they’ve created with the TTS4 desktop suite (Windows), a small handlebar controller, and then an ANT+ USB adapter. The handlebar controller is specifically for the Tacx desktop suite, not 3rd party apps. The TTS4 software includes a more advanced interval function, 3D worlds, Google Earth option (with more licenses), and the ability to buy videos.
Now normally at €180, I’d so no, it’s not worth it. But for buyers of the Tacx NEO Smart, it’s discounted down to €80 – which makes it slightly more interesting. I’m not a huge fan of the desktop suite in general, but at that price you’re also getting the ANT+ USB adapter and wireless remote. So essentially you’re software cost is in the €30-40 range. If you already have a USB stick though, it’s of less value.
After you get the trainer, look at 3rd party app options first. Then go from there. While the Tacx software suite has improved considerably over the years, I think there’s some solid 3rd party options out there. If those apps don’t fill the gap, then look at Tacx TTS software.
When will an in-depth review be out?
I’m not sure exactly. Likely early to mid October is a safe bet. With full weeks of Interbike and the ANT+ Symposium between now and then, along with every other week containing work travel, it’s going to be challenging to get as much trainer time as I’d like. Still, I’ll be answering questions as I go along here in the comments. So there shouldn’t be really any question as to my thoughts on the unit.
What cassettes is it compatible with?
You can use Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo. Both 10 & 11 speed.
How does the trainer work when there’s no power connected?
Exactly like the Bushido Smart – which is to say that you power the electronic components of the trainer. So you can be setup in the middle of the cow pastures in their add and pedal away just fine, even controlling the resistance with your mobile phone.
How do you calibrate the trainer?
Interestingly – it doesn’t actually support any calibration feature (unlike all their past trainers). It remains to be seen how over time that’ll work. The theory here being that there’s no moving parts and thus nothing to get out of alignment, nor to warm-up such as a fluid trainer.
Is there a ride weight limit on NEO?
Yes, 125 kilograms /275 pounds.
What is the max resistance power and incline/decline?
On the NEO it’s 2,200w and 25% incline. Meanwhile it can simulate 5% declines (downhill).
Where’s the Tacx NEO built?
It’s built fully in the Netherlands. It’s a small European country that has taken cycling to a potentially unhealthy national addiction and cult-like level. But because they’re usually pretty polite about it, it’s OK. Plus, everyone loves their waffles Stroopwafels.
Summary:
There’s no doubt the Tacx NEO is shaping up to be a solid entrant in the higher end trainer world. The lack of massive trainer noise levels alone will be a huge appeal to many, as well as the direct drive aspect. There would be no issues using this trainer in any sort of noise-restricted setting, such as an apartment, or significant other who is desperately trying to watch Grey’s Anatomy re-runs in the same room.
But at the same time, there’s also no reason you need to spend that much money for a very functional electronically controlled trainer. Tacx themselves makes some great models at almost 1/3rd the price that still do FE-C and all of the other technology focused items I discussed here (except simulating descents). Similarly, other competitors such as Bkool, Elite, and Wahoo all are making strong competitive options at lower prices. So definitely do your research.
I think one of the biggest strengths though of any of these trainers, especially the NEO, is the 3rd party compatibility. While Tacx may have a rocky road on the software apps front, it’s somewhat of a non-issue here – since the trainer is being controlled by these 3rd party apps. I do suspect we’ll continue to see some very slight teething items over the next month or two with apps, head unit, and trainer companies implementing these specs. But I think a lot of that’s already been occurring over the summer and by and large things are cleaning up nicely.
I’ll continue to update this post as I get more time on the unit, as well as answer questions below in the comments. Thanks for reading!
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Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
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Since the Tacx NEO Smart is no longer sold, I recommend looking at Tacx NEO 2T Smart:
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
There are *many* variations of cassette removal tools, this is the best bang for your buck. Don't overthink this. You'll likely only use this tool once every 2-3 years.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
This is a Shimano 105 cassette (thus, slightly more budget compared to the Ultegra), in most cases, you probably won't notice the difference. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
This is a Ultegra cassette, you can save about $10-$15 by picking up a Shimano 105 instead. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
I did indeed.
The end cup that you screw on clamps the bearing so I’d thought about just putting a bit of tape on the shaft to help centre it before clamping it with cap; not ideal but better than not
It’s pretty poor that on a £1k product simple schoolboy stuff like clearances, grease etc are awry.
Is there a howto on how to check and preload the disc bearing?
As the cause of the sawbone noise/vibration has now been identified as being a manufacturing fault, has anybody heard if Tacx are going to be doing a product recall or do we just return our faulty units to where we purchased them fromand hope the current stock is OK.
It seems the single biggest problem with the Neo is the fact they didn’t just include a cassette.
I plan to buy a Neo to allow me to get a good cardio workout at home… In a way that I will be entertained enough to extend my workouts to the 1+ hour length, on a daily basis.
I have no chain whip… No spare cassette or cassette nut. While mechanically inclined, I have no real desire to be a bike mechanic. While I have a lot of tools, I actually do not have a torque wrench for the proper tightening of the cassette nut. (I realize I can get away without that, but still) Aside from the multi-hub problem(s), I just really would rather not bother – I’d prefer, like it’s competitors, to just take it into my living room, and pop the bike on in a few minutes and be done.
I think it’s a massive fail by the product management team at Tacx to not just do what other manufacturers have done. And now with the problems of the multi-hub, they are living with their poor product requirement decisions. (They could have handled a different # speed configuration via special order if it was really important to some people)
But since I live in a flat, trainer noise is a big concern for me… So in the end I’ll likely buy a Neo. I’d like to wait until they get their next revision out. While I realize their next generation might be 1-2 years away (or more), it is possible in 6 months they have an interim revision that addresses the uncommon (but very painful considering these aren’t readily available at most LBS’s) problems.
well, in general you are right – there should be an option to order the NEO with a cassette … but which one? Campa? Shimano? 12-28? 11-29? 10 speed? 11 speed? hmmm … so many choices …
And really the Edco multi cassette body is not bad – it works perfectly with my Shimano 10 speed cassette.
The thing is though – the “trainer to buy” before the Neo came out was what, the Kickr? Which of course, comes with a cassette, right?
The problems from the (granted more mature product at this point) Kickr, are a lot less, are they not?
I’d love to have the Neo already – really I would. But as someone said just below, the place I would have bought it from (Clever Training)… Brand new unit one would think as they just arrived… And it still has problems. (Although likely unrelated to the multihub)
Have to say I’m shocked by the people that don’t have chain whips and tools required to change cassettes. What do you all do every year when chain and cassette wear requires replacements?
Lbs? If so then I don’t see what the fuss is all about getting lbs to fit the trainer cassette.
You do realise one cassette won’t last forever on the neo, right? Unless you want the cassette to wear the chain to wear the chainrings costs even more money ?
Update on Neo experience.
bought from Clever training.. Arrived clearly opened an retaped.
After riding a few short test rides that seemed fine, it has begun an extremely pronounced clunking (bonesawing??) vibration. Sounds like what others have experienced. totally not rideable.
Worse yet, Tacx support has not responded in 3 days.
I would second the other’s advice NOT to buy this at this time..
Hey Mattv- how many miles did you end up riding? I have completed 5 laps in zwift, two over an hour RLV rides with the Tacx TTS software, and a few VR rides also in the Tacx TTS software. No issues so far, still whisper quiet and the only weird noise is a very faint hum when the Neo is sitting idle. I talked to Tacx and they said to unplug the Neo from the rear plug or unplug it from the outlet. I have it on a powerstrip and just turn it off after each ride. Let us know what clever training with the return. As stated earlier you should be able to deal directly with them and not Tacx. I asked about any returns before mine arrived and they stated they would cover the return shipping if your unit had problems. Best of luck and sorry to hear of your Neo’s fault. What was your serial number on the Neo? Thanks
Hi Tony,
I probably rode 40k on zwift. It was fine on zwift, but it bucked once in the ride. Got on today and it was fine for a few minutes, then it started riding poorly. When I first got it, I noticed I could not turn the axle by hand without it being very hard to turn and very rough, but once I plugged it in it seemed to ride fine. I called clever today but the very rude woman said I’d have to call back on Monday (((
Matt- I really hope she was just having a bad day- so far my communications with them have been pleasant- Your Neo problems sounds like it is a malfunctioning magnet situation. Especially if you describe it has notching or feeling resistance then no resistance? choppy feeling? Also what is your SR# on the Neo? mine is 00828. Trevor looks like his is 00818. Just want to keep note of SR# to see if there are any batch correlations.
Tony- I think it might have been the answering service… still not the best experience.
Strangely, my iphone or ipad apps do not report the serial number., i could see where it gets displayed, but there was no number…
I really liked this trainer when it was working. i think this type of device is the future of trainers. Always risky buying 1st generation equipment..
3 laps in on zwift with my neo and issue free. 10 speed shimano hub installed with the provided spacer and no issues. Caad10 plenty of clearance on the chainstay and seatstays. As mentioned above the unit would not turn when it first arrived. I plugged it in, heard a loud magnetic click, and the thing has been perfect ever since. I dont put out a big wattage so its possible i need to stress it sone more but so far its perfect.
Mine behaved the same way when I first got it and plugged it, as if the magnets retracted and allowed the disc to spin. After a bit of riding, it “locked down” again and not it not only has high resistance that is fixed, it has pronounced “notchy” feel and is completely unrideable..
After playing around with my unit a bit more, I’m not sure my unit is actually experiencing the same “bonesaw” issue as other have reported. Mine is more of stair stepping kind of feeling (very pronounced.) The unit is recognized by Zwift (and the Tacx App), but it does not output any information to the software and the colored lights don’t flash underneath when I (attempt) to pedal….
I was able to update the unit to the latest firmware before it locked up.
Interesting our numbers are so close. I did a lap (10 Miles) on the richmond course yesterday and I actually though I had the sawbone issue. Vibrations coming up all through the bike in the last two rings of the rear cassette. So I took a look at my chainline and discovered that my front derailleur was rubbing when I was in the big ring. It was not rubbing enough that I would have even noticed outdoor, but it was creating horrible vibes on the NEO. So after resolving that, my 12 ring is buttery smooth and my 11 ring still has a really mild vibe to it with some increased noise. I attribute that to the fact that the cassette is set further out than on a typical wheel because I have a 10 speed instead of the 11. So, I can live with that because I am almost never in the 11 ring, and best of all, I dont believe there is anything wrong with my neo at this time other than maybe a slight alignment issue. I have never been a fan of FSA cranks which is what came stock on my CADD10 and could be causing some of the issues, so unless the sawbone effect comes back, I think I am still good to go. You guys have me closely monitoring it though!
Oh and I got my serial number from the sticker on the bottom of the neo leg. Probably why I came up with more numbers.
well, I noticed that the setup and adjustment of the drivetrain system requires more thoroughness with the NEO compared to my real bike … maybe it is just because you notice the chain / cassette noises more when riding indoors compared to riding on the road.
And when I ride outdoors climbing / grinding up steep hills in the Alps the chain / cassette does make noises, too. Not all (I do not dare to make a guess how many…) problems described here are TACX`s fault …
My Neo produces the metallic clunking sound when the flywheel is rotated by hand. I didn’t even bother trying it with my bike because. Tacx Support posted a message here saying that this problem was limited to early units. Mine has serial number 801501128 in case anyone is interested in getting an idea of how many units are included in the “early units” batch.
Emmanuel, you may be making a big mistake here. You need to put a minimum amount of force on the unit for it to work properly. Its not designed to be rotated by hand without a bike hooked to it. I can tell you that with my bike connected if I rotate my crank arm by hand I hear the same clunking, but as soon as I apply a minimum ammount of effort, it properly engages and there are Zero problems. I’m not trying to say your unit isnt bad, but I dont know how you could possibly determine that without connecting a bike and giving it a try.
i do believe something is wrong here. If that sounds like metal it means there is a metal residue in it. Yes your model is in that batch as mentioned before
Tacx Support, Thanks for the confirmation about the batch. The trainer is on its way back to my online retailer after confirmation from support@tacx.com that it is defective.
Is there a cut-off serial # that I can tell me retailer not to ship back to me? I fear that their stock might consist only of early units and don’t want to risk having to do another return cycle given the long delays and high shipping costs.
Trevor, Nice idea but I get the noise when I pedal too. Sounds like metal hitting and scraping inside. I had decided to mount the bike to the trainer to confirm that it fit properly before returning it for exchange. For those interested:
Bike: Argon 18 Krypton (2012 model year)
Groupset: Campy Record – short cage
Cassette: Edco 11-27 with the Edco-supplied sliver spacer ring installed as per Tacx instructions
Result: No interference even when in the 27T cog.
So the lower portion of your rear derailleur blackplate does not touch the bottom bulge of the neo frame at all? Post a pic.. Id like to see this… put it in your 27 cog and take a close up pic of your rear derailleur from thw back.. the only way I could get my actual campy 11s cassette to work was to place a small piece of foam with double sided tape to the neo so when I shift to the top cog, it stops the rd from hitting the neo… works great now…
I don’t have my trainer out now because I’m preparing to return it (it’s my second one and I think it is afflicted by the sawbone problem) but I do remember that the bottom of my cage came within about 1.5mm of the bump-out in the Neo frame when in the 27T cog.
I wonder if it is because I’m using the Edco cogs that I don’t have a problem. Or maybe it is a derailleur hanger issue – I check my hanger alignment early this past summer and it was bang on.
Oops. I was wrong. I dragged out my Neo again to try to convince myself that I don’t have a bonesaw issue and my derailleur DOES rub. I must have been in 25T instead of 27T.
Indeed, the upper jockey-wheel screw on the inner plate rubs against the silver disk when in the largest cog. And the bottom part of the plate is either just touching or a small fraction of a mm away from the plastic frame of the Neo. I am using the silver spacer that came with the Edco cogs (11sp Campy Record short-cage).
Sorry for the false report that the Neo was actually working properly :)
I’ve reported to Tacx Support to see what they say but I guess there’s nothing to do about it other than returning the Neo to the store and buying a Kickr or just not using the smallest gear.
Am thinking of pulling the trigger on one, but the failure rate, is off putting. Just the faffing around with tacx and the lbs, when I could be riding my bike.
Would tacx be good enough to publish the number of units with issues? If less than 2% I can live with those odds
Ian, for me its about the silence of this unit. If anyone can get a lemon it is me and mine is working fine. It’s so quiet, you will be very happy with your purchase. You need a cassette, campy lockring tool and chain whip, and you need to read the instructions to get the proper spacers installed for the multisys hub. By design this unit is 1000 times more simple than others so although some folks are having issues, in the long run I expect this to be one of the most reliable units on the market. YOLO my friend, nobody has been denied warranty to date so get what you want.
Hi,
I know most people on this forum are receiving issues with the Neo unit itself however for anyone has got past this stage as far as saving an activity on the cycling app (tablet) and loading it into garmin connect?
I’m getting wildly inaccurate calorie and ascent figures. I have tried loading the exports directly into strava yet.
I am using three different softwares for recording my training and ride (Garmin, Strava and another program on my MacBook … and when it comes to calories values I get three different values because every software uses it’s own algorithm for calculation.
Same with the altitude meters … I know that for example the Garmin Edge firmware does level out small climbs so that this value is in general lower as for the same ride as in Strava for example. Especially when I ride here in Northern Germany where we have mostly smaller climbs, When I ride in the Alps with longer climbs for example this is not the case … maybe this might be with you, too
Just an update. Ps if you send a mail to support@tacx.com you always receive a ticket ID number within a couple of minutes. If not something went wrong (had some reports of barricuda blockers) You can als DM on FB or send a tweet that you did not receive any.
Some info on the “bonesaw” issue reported by Lee in the beginning. We received nit from a german customer who had this issue so we could investigate it. It is related to a bearing not being locked up correct. There is a simple fix, but can only be performed by a Distributor (bearing is behind the metal disc). In case you hear that sound that lee has, please send a sound recording to support@tacx.com, so we can tell you if this is the case or it s Edco related (which is greasing). Our FAQ site on our website will also be updated.
Tacx Support Wrote: “Our FAQ site on our website will also be updated”
That would be nice seeing as currently, the Home > Analyse > Solutions link does not even list the Neo:
Does anyone know if many (most?) TT bikes will _not_ fit the Tacx Neo? I’m looking to get a Scott Plasma 20 TT at a decent price in a couple of days. It has integrated rear brakes and, although I haven’t checked to be sure, I doubt it will fit the Neo. Ideally I would of course want a TT bike that I can use on the trainer, but if it would prove difficult to find one that actually fits then I’m thinking it might not be worth looking for something else when I can get a good deal on the Plasma 20.
From your picture it seems your Cervelo P3 is a 2010 model? When it comes to compatability with the Neo, do you know of any reason it shouldn’t fit my P3 (58″) 2009 model too?
From the Tacx Neo compatability stencil it looks very tight. Most so on the left (non-cassette) side, where the edge of the metal “wheel” (not-rotating?) seems very close, right?
Did you have to set the axle exceptionally far back (by using extra long dropout screws)? I assume one could do the trick by adding the extra 135mm axle spacer, but guess you didn’t do that :)
You haven’t experienced any problems with the frame twisting and making contact with the Neo at heavy load?
I fitted a 51cm 2008 P3C on a Neo without any problems. I assume you will have more clearance on a 58cm frame, but the template should give you the definitive answer.
Hey, i just got a Cervelo P3 frame and it seems very tight from the non cassette side, is that the norm on a 2017/18 Neo (not sure which one i have bough it during black Friday last year)
The clearance is around 1-2 mm only which is kinda worrying, is it the same case for your P3? do you think its ok to use the bike on the Neo?
To be fair, since the sawbone resolution has only just been found, surely any UK stock will already be “in doubt” anyway ??
Whilst its a bit of a logistical nightmare you’d think the best thing to do would be to get everything sent back, all issues resolved and ensure any stock supplied now has grease and washers ;-)
cancelled my order, ordering the kickr instead. Love the concept of the Neo but not willing to stress test it for them and pretty disappointed that they havent allocated a reserve for repairs/restock as companies generally do when launching a new product (I thought?) will revisit in a year or so and maybe take the plunge then.
So even units not making noise now are basically ticking time bombs without a bearing washer that Can only be replaced by sending the unit in? Will this be covered by warranty? Super disappointing considering we’ll probably all have to pay that shipping ourselves! If my unit just shipped from trisports in the USA will it already have this washer? Or the units from the newest batch still don’t angry the fix of new washer and adequate greasing?
Cause I’d rather replace a silly washer myself than send it in even if it requires specialized tools. What tools would I need? Will you be sending detailed instructions on how to do it for those of us confident and handy enough to take the job on ourselves?
From the posts so far it appears that solving the “sawing” issue involves access to the insides. Therefore I’d assume that due to possible injury (and in the USA that means a law suit) you’d not be allowed to complete this yourself.
Hopefully I should get an update on mine later this week with this new knowledge out there. Also my 2nd Neo should now be back at HQ and under investigation to help further with diagnosis.
I can’t see how any Neo’s have this fix yet, but the $1m question is whether some units were faulty or this is a fault waiting to happen on all.
Exactly what is that tool used for? Most indicate that once the end cap is removed, the freehub comes off fairly easily, so not sure what that bearing puller would be used for.
My new just arrived. Ordered from Trisports with 20% discount for the halloween sale. I debated long and hard about cancelling this order and going with kickr– GLAD I WAITED IT OUT!!!
This is a great specimen so far. Minimal chunky vibration at low speeds, disappears at normal medium speed tempo. The loudest thing in the room by far is my drivetrain. Connection to zwift took all of 5 minutes including updating to latest Neo firmware via iPad. No issues running with cheap ant+ dongle to macbook pro and using HDMI cable to mirror onto my 55″ TV. Love this thing. Can’t wait to do an FTP test as I have never had a power meter and want to structure some good workouts to come out stronger than ever this Spring. Will be putting many hours on this over the next few weeks. Will report back if any issues develop but so far so good.
Oh and also, Cannondale Super six (non evo) 2013 size 52cm fits no problem in case anyone wondered since someone above had issues with a similar bike.
Joe. Glad to hear that your Neo is working well. I got mine from TriSport also (serial # 801501772). Started out nicely but second time on it it vibrated like crazy and made quite a racket.
Took the cassette/hub assembly off and found the little round thing to be bone dry. Greased the doohickey and reinstalled it (very simple to do). Didn’t seem to do much at first but after riding for about 20 minutes the vibrations and noise just about disappeared. Amazing what a little grease can do!
Hoping that things will be even quieter tomorrow but I suspect the rest of the noise may be my drive train.
The one negative thing I will add is that I also cannot go into my largest cog on rear cassette without the deraileur hangar rubbing the metal flywheel. Not a big deal to me, I just will try not to use the granny gear in back– not much use for it during training anyway– but worth mentioning.
Are you running Campagnolo or Shimano.. I have now succesfully got a full 11s Campagnolo 11-27 block to work… I am using a .55mm spacer behind the cassette which is what Mavic wanted Campy users to do on older wheelsets.. I then cut a small square of packing foam , about 1/4 inch thick and put double sided tape on it… Campag rear derailleur touches the bottom frame of the neo… now I have the foam piece there so the back of the rd plate touches the foam and not the neo frame, this keeps the top pulley away from the flywheel as well. not the best solution, but its working fine for me! I am using mechanical drivetrain so there is probably some flex ad forgiveness… Im not sure how something like that would react with electronic with the servo…
If you run Tacx RLV or Veloreality at the actual gradient you will probably appreciate that small cog.. grab Veloreality’s free Paterberg loop and run full 18% grade!!
“grab Veloreality’s free Paterberg loop and run full 18% grade”
Lol – No thanks. I’m happy with Zwifts 8-12% slopes that are in fact only simulated at 50% (by default). My knees don’t do 18% even in the real world, let alone on a trainer.
I’ve now noticed that the rubbing / sawing does occur on the small cassette cogs using the small FD too, just that I never noticed due to changing up to the Big FD before I’d normally use those gears.
Still trying to just ride around the issue at the moment until support come back with a way forward.
You can knock veloreality down to whatever level you want too for slope as well…. have you greased the sleeve under the cassette? Takes 2 minutes, 3 minutes if you don’t know how to use an allan key :)
My second Neo has the sawbone issue. When I ride, there is a vibration/noise that transmits through the bike and floor of my house.
I sent a recording to tacx support and they said they couldn’t help me and that I needed to contact the dealer. I fear this is going to be a protracted process of convincing my dealer that the unit is actually defective.
With my first Neo and with my Genius before it (replaced twice in 3 years), Tacx Support had always confirmed that the unit needed to be exchanged which I then provided to my dealer. In fact, the first time I had a problem with my Genius, the dealer said he wouldn’t get it exchanged unless Tacx said it was defective.
I am worried now that, in the face of many complaints, Tacx is pushing this issue to the dealers to sort out and that customers who bought lemons will be at the mercy of these dealers.
That’s too bad. I think this is pretty well understood to be a failed product launch at this point. Hopefully they will get the manufacturing issues ironed out at some point and it’s not a fundamental design issue. I think the basic concept is great and the way most trainers will work in the future…
I’ve got a second one on order. Hope springs eternal in the human breast….
Well there does seem to be design issue with respect to clearances for Campy 11sp derailleurs. I can’t believe Tacx didn’t know about this before releasing – they probably decided to release anyways and hope that most customers would just accept that they cannot use their largest cog.
If there is really a problem with Campy 11speed I don’t think that TACX did it with intention…
and usually for any warranty issues your dealer is responsible. If somethings wrong with the new bike you bought you wouldn’t go directly to, for example, Cannondale.
I have Campy 11spd. I can confirm that it does not have clearance for the inner cog. My Kickr has the same problem. The chainline is good and consistent with my bike (I don’t have adjust anything going from wheels to Neo), but the problem is that the metal disc is just too close to the inner cog….
I have Campy 11s and its working perfect… here’s what I did..
First its an 11-27 block, where the bottom of the rear derailleur would touch the neo frame , I took a piece of 1/4 inch stiff foam with double sided tape.. where the lower back rear derailleur touches the Neo frame in the 27 cog, I placed this piece of foam.. the foam then draws the upper pulley away from the flywheel and I can dial in my 27 cog to make it work.. I am also using a mavic .55mm spacer behind the cassette to make it work…
I can’t seem to find the answers to the following questions. How much side-to-side movement (preferably in degrees of tilt) does it have? How quickly does it respond to changes in power for intervals? And is there software control that allows one to shape the rise and fall of the power curve, or is there only a square wave option? Thanks
I don’t know the exact amount, but it seems like a couple of degrees. I find it to be distracting. It does not feel natural at all.
Perhaps if it had a rubber bumper or spring to give it a little dampening it would be better.
Get rollers if you want to simulate sprinting……
Jim- I find the slight side to side motion kind of cool and realistic enough. I ride Zwift, and Tacx TTS4 so far and I think the changes in resistance respective of the grade changes are good. I really like how smooth and quiet my Neo is and so far no problems other than my Camp 10 speed rubbing in the largest rear cog on the metal disc on the Neo.
In actual fact I believe you will find the main body has practically 0 movement. Its the fact that the axle housing bends down on the drive side that creates the effect of tilt. Just look and any videos, or behind yourself if you own one, and you can see this happening.
Heres the pic of foam for the 11s guys… on the 39×27 now the bottom rd back plate just rests on the foam… as for the 10s setup.. i still put a .55 spacer i used on mavic wheels behind the block.. just like i did for 11s
For any users (like me) who borrowed a friend apple device to update the firmware, the 2 versions are the same.. so android users if you updated the firmware from an apple device.. this is NOT a newer firmware version than what we have already..
“…or significant other who is desperately trying to watch Grey’s Anatomy re-runs in the same room.”
HAHAHA! Funny you should mention that. What about significant others who use the training bike WHILE watching Grey’s Anatomy re-runs? Which is what my significant other is actually doing.
I guess the NEO is a must-have then, because apparently it reduces the need for using headphones (or at least the volume needed to overcome the trainer’s noise) to much more manageable levels…
“Honey, I HAD to buy that new trainer just so you can watch Grey’s Anatomy in a much more comfortable way! Oh yes, we, er, you DO need that!”
Just a follow up on how things are going. I went over to a friends house who has a Kickr and am reminded how loud that is in comparison.
I started hearing the gumball/cracking noise so I will be greasing my hub. This is at about 300k into riding it.
I have had it happen twice now where if I try to go from 50w to ~800w input in slope/sim mode it flashes red and pretty much locks up..
My BB creaking (stupid pressfit) is usually louder than any noise it makes.
Downside: it does vibrate, and I do hope the neighbors don’t feel/hear the vibrations through the floor. I am considering if during an ERG mode workout if the neo or a kickr in the easiest gear is actually quieter as perceived by neighbors/my wife. In any other gear than 36f 25r the NEO is definitely quieter, but on the KICKR I could cheat during sufferfest workouts and just use the easiest gear to keep the belt/resistance unit moving as slowly as possible. I think with the NEO using the small front ring is good to keep the chain moving more slowly (avoiding chain noise) and then using a cog in the middle of the casette to keep the unit spinning a little faster so it is smoother.
I rode my Neo for the first time this weekend on Zwift and TTS and so far I am VERY impressed. The first thing I did after taking the unit out of the box was to grease the cassette axle and teeth thoroughly, all I needed was a 5mm allen key to remove the cassette body. I then updated the unit to the latest firmware using an android tablet, the procedure worked perfectly.
I chose the Neo over the Kickr due to the fact that I already own many Tacx TTS videos, I wanted a trainer that would support the Tacx software as well as all other software such as Zwift, trainer Road etc. This trainer makes the Zwift experience extremely realistic, changes in gradient were almost instant while descents give you a realistic feel and much needed rest. Sprints were very realistic and ramping up was very hard just like real outdoor riding. The Tacx TTS software worked perfectly, just as my Tacx Genius trainer however things felt a lot smoother. From grade changes and soft pedaling things felt much more realistic.
During the three hours of riding I ran into zero issues, no weird sounds, no overheating. The top of the trainer was hot to the touch after my ride but I could feel an internal fan moving the air out the vents.
I understand that forgetting to grease parts is almost unforgivable for a trainer of this price but it is very simple to do and most of us already have the tools and grease to get this done easily. It is probably something I will do before each trainer season anyway just to be sure this trainer lasts me a long time.
And of course after about 4 hours of riding my Neo started to get the sawbone effect. The trainer seems to still work perfectly but the noise is annoying and the vibrations can be clearly felt through the bike. When coasting the sound is like a whomp-whomp-whomp and it seems that some parts are running inside the unit. Holding the metal disc does not make the sound go away.
Has there been any details posted about the cause or a potential fix for the sawbone sound?
I’ve a Neo, it will never be as ‘smooth’ as the kickr in erg mode as the flywheel on the kickr basically smoothes the power output. That doesn’t mean that the power is being applied any differently, it means the kickr probably masks the reality. I find the Neo great in erg mode on both TR and zwift with the new firmware.
I did an erg mode session the other day with TrainerRoad:
base level 150 W
30s intervals with 450W
multiple intervals with 1min to 5min duration, 1-2 min break in between.
No issues whatsoever, resistance came on quickly but not too quickly! I noticed the resistance ramping up about 1s before the actual interval started and I guess maybe around 0.5s after the start it was full on.
I liked it! (Don’t have a direct comparison to the kickr though!)
No problems pairing my Neo with TTS4. Make sure you are on the latest firmware for the Neo using the smart phone App and also unfair any other trainer you might have paired up to TTS4. I have a Fortius, Genius, Vortex, and Neo so each time I ride each trainer I have to unfair that device then rescan for the trainer I want to ride. Hope this helps.
No problems pairing the Neo with TTS4 either. I installed TTS4 yesterday and it found the Neo straight away. I used my regular ANT+ dongle (used for Zwift) to do so.
Btw – A tip seems to be to avoid riding the Villagio course as there are some bugs. So pick one of the others. Trust me to pick the bugged one as a demo, hope to try another at the weekend.
Also intend to have a go at a film as soon as I can this week. Thanks to TACX Support for helping out here.
Fingers crossed I’ll soon be able to get my Neo sawing issue resolved. At least it seems as if the common Neo issues are known and the fixes are too. TACX support have been very good so far and hopefully I’ll be reporting a fully working Neo in the near future.
Have to admit that the wealth of software out there to go with the Neo is great. I’m hoping I’ll be able to combine rides in TTS4 with TACX Films and regular use of Zwift ALL linking into and updating Strava. It’s not all working yet, but the future looks pretty bright.!
I have TrainerRoad workouts going straight into Strava. Zwift rides straight into Strava. TTS4 RLV rides straight into Strava. Don’t need a Neo for any of that ;-)
Does look like all issues are out of the closet now, so once you’ve got rid of the bonesaw you’ll be sorted :)
Interestingly I get what people are on about with the KICKR and noise. Up until recently I’ve only ever used it in ERG mode with little ring, so its rotational speed and thus noise has been low. In Zwift now, always in the big ring with the KICKR flying around and it does whine somewhat. I think the whining is due to one of the smaller pulley wheels inside spinning at speed, not the main flywheel. Certainly the KICKR Snap is silent.
@Lee — “I have TrainerRoad workouts going straight into Strava. Zwift rides straight into Strava. TTS4 RLV rides straight into Strava. Don’t need a Neo for any of that”
I find a Neo helps greatly for all the above. When I take the Neo away the bike is much lower down at the back, very unbalanced, the pedals no longer go around and I get an oily chain all over the nice carpet. Zwift, TR and TTS4 all refuse to talk to my front wheel too :-(
A theory proffered by someone claiming to know about this sort of stuff claimed that it is because of the type of belt that has been selected. He said the whine on the Kickr at high revs may well be coming from the air escaping as the belt mates with the teeth. If that is the case then I suspect if you put a small cut at the bottom of each indent for the air to escape you might be able to silence it somewhat.
Andrew- Glad issues are being sorted for you so you can enjoy your Neo as much as the rest that are reporting no problems. Mine is still spot on perfect and quiet. I only ride TTS4 VR and RLV, Zwift, and Veloreality. I also found out the hard way that VR Villagio was not responding correctly but all the RLV’s I have done so far are great.
Even located in the garage, my trusty old Tacx Grand Excel is so noisy it wakes up the rest of the household, so a silent trainer is a very attractive proposition, and I have been following this discussion with some interest.
Unless I have missed something in the thread, there seem to be 3 known issues reported so far; weld fragments contaminating the rotor, ungreased hub components, and a problem with the axle bearing assembly.
A question for Tacx, if they are reading this, please – are there still units out in the marketplace that have one or more of these defects, and am I taking pot luck on getting a fully functioning Neo if I buy at the moment?
Just an update to my own question:
I contacted the UK distributor to ask about this, and they informed me that they believe Tacx are applying the fixes during manufacturing, so everything now being imported should be OK (as far as the known issues are concerned). They think that most of the UK stock that was imported before the known issues were identified has probably now been sold, but obviously can’t guarantee this.
So if you can get new stock, you should be OK (assuming there are no new issues to be uncovered) but I guess there could still be some lemons out there!
Just got my Neo and after a test run using Kinomap everything seems fine. Sound from drivetrain and my breathing drowned out any noise from the trainer! Looks like I can finally make the move in from the garage this winter..
Now I just need a iOS app to control it, any suggestions? I’ve used ismoothrun and imobileinterval to build structured sessions for watt targeting in the past with a KICKR but they doesn’t support the Neo (for now at least). Is there any other apps to try that supports the Neo?
Question for people who use both PC and iPad to run their training software – which is best? I’ve finally pushed the button on a Neo. I plan to use it with some kind of structured training software and/or something with video (real or computer generated). I don’t want to go overboard on the dongles yet, so
Question for the experienced Neo users (any smart trainer user actually) – am I better using my laptop or ipad?
PC, without a doubt. On a PC you’ve access to ANT+ and then FE-C or basic power/cadence.
On an iPad, using bluetooth, you’re stuck with apps which support the Neo over bluetooth, which AFAIK is only the Tacx training apps.
I haven’t included the option of running ANT+ from an iPad as I can’t believe anyone would want to torture themselves that much. Even then you’d need an iPad app which “knows” ANT+ and then supports FE-C. Unicorn shite rare :)
Thanks Lee, very interesting. I thought (maybe wrongly) that I could stick a dongle into the ipad and run, say, Trainerroad/Sufferfest or something? Just thought it might be easier to use ipad than laptop.
So out of the box, the iPad is bluetooth. TrainerRoad supports bluetooth BUT NOT FOR RESISTANCE CONTROL OF A NEO !! It would however, work if you were happy to use your gears/cadence to achieve the TR power targets.
You can put an ANT+ dongle in your iPad and then apparently TrainerRoad on iOS does indeed support FE-C over ANT+. So not rare as I originally thought, kudos for TR guys for supporting FE-C on iOS/ANT+ which I suspect not many people use. There is of course the question of whether a Neo, using FE-C over iOS ANT+ with TR actually works ;-)
It looks like (assuming your iPad is new) you need a Wahoo ANT+ dongle plus a 30-pin to lightning adapter. PC with garmin ANT+ USB seems the simpler option here by far and is what the maintstream users would run i think.
Concerning TR-Neo combination, OS X has been working excellently for me (details in some post way above…) but in iOS it just doesn’t seem to track fast/accurately enough to be useful at this moment; haven’t checked though whether this is just me and whether this is being addressed by either Tacx or TR. Agree though that iPad is way more convenient, so that’s what I always used with the KICKR.
The PC certainly gives you more options and hooked up via HDMI to a big screen will give a better experience too. I’m using Zwift this way and have had brief flirts with TTS4. Zwift + Neo + TV = Very Happy Cyclists..!
I also have the ANT+ dongle for the iPad but haven’t tried it yet. Will look forward to your feedback.
I use TR on an iPad with an Ant dongle (I use the wahoo one). It works absolutely fine on the Neo, I can’t detect any difference in response compared to using the PC (mac in my case). I prefer the iPad as it’s faster and easier, plus it lets me run Zwift at the same time which is a useful distraction when the intervals ramp up.
That’s great to hear as I prefer iPad or iPod touch over PC, just easier to have within reach. Checked again and yes, iOS seems to work for me too now. (Same versions and settings as the several times it didn’t work before, not sure what changed?)
iOS doesn’t seem to have the ancipatory change in resistance implemented in the PC versions for trainers that are slower to respond than the Neo, so that feels actually nicer on iOS. Did have one sudden increase in resistance though with power matched to P1 that seemed due to lost power meter, and one that I can’t explain yet.
Wait, you use an iPad with a dongle and it can make auto resistance changes to the Neo from trainer road? I thought this didn’t work with iPads or iPhones and you needed a full fledged computer (mac or PC)? Am I wrong? That would be nice if I could run trainer road from ipad, and zwift from macbook at same time!
Everyone..any help appreciated, I have an issue with the Neo and FTP testing. I have tried TrainerRoad, TrainerRoad Beta (with Sufferfest – Rubber Glove) TTS4 and Zwift and they all show roughly the same problem,. They all work fine during the warm-up phase (assume in ERG mode) and as soon as they get to the 20mins of the actually FTP (pain) they all just lockup the Neo. It seems like they switch to resistance mode at 100%, on TR Beta I can jump off and knock it down to 20% on the laptop. I’m running Win10/Ant+ dongle and all the latest software. I can try it on the Mac on Zwift and TR. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this, or is it just me and I have something configured incorrectly. Thanks.
I have read somewhere that during an FTP test on any platform the programme is designed to switch from ERG to resistance. This allows you to get a more accurate reading due to the fact that if you stay in ERG no matter how much power you output the trainer will adjust the resistance to its target. Regarding the lock up sorry I cant help.
This is a known issue in trainerroad.
******************
Hey Marvin,
We are aware of this issue with the Tacx Neo when completing a FTP test. We actually just received our own Neo today! We should be able to fix the issue now very soon.
In the mean time, instead of switching to erg mode during the intervals, just lower the resistance. You can do this by using the left and right arrow keys on your keyboard.
*************
So lower the resistance mode with the keys and you are fine.
I’ve done the FTP test in Zwift and it did switch from ERG to Resistance (slope) I believe during the test window. However the Neo did not lockup and I was able to “enjoy” 20 minutes of the anticipated pain without technical issues.
Yes, I followed up my earlier question about outstanding problems by contacting the UK distributor. They also told me that the fixes are being applied at the factory, so anything now being imported to the UK should be OK as far as known issues are concerned.
The UK distributor thought that most of the original stock supplied before the issues were identified has probably now been sold (and not all of the original stock had problems anyway) but they obviously couldn’t guarantee that, and there could still be a few lemons out there with retailers.
Update on my neo, greased my hub and still having vibes and grinding in the last two gears. Tacx is air mailing me a new edco and has been very responsive and helpful. I think the problem is alignment because it just seems that the cassette (shimano 10 spd) is spaced really far out compared to a real wheel. Not sure if i will be able to replace the edco myself. Anyone done this yet? Hoping this will fix my vibes, otherwise very happy with my neo.
@Trevor. Sounds like the same issue as me. I get the rubbing / grinding in the last 4/5 gears when riding the big cog and the last 2/3 when on the smaller. This rubbing has apparently been diagnosed to be a bearing issue that cannot be resolved by a user. For reference I use an 11-Speed Shimano 105.
Replacing the EDCO is simple. You will be fine. Hopefully this solves your issue.
Thats what it feels like. Willing to try the edco, but after that it is going to get returned. Will probably replace with another neo though. I love this thing.
Could someone post a pic of their chainline from the rear when you are in the big ring up front and 11 ring in the rear with the neo? Do u get any vibes or grinding in the last gear?
Yup, it’ll work fine. I use a small fleet of random ANT+ USB sticks, including the Suunto one. In fact, it was the ‘original’ mini one, before Garmin released theirs.
The following article makes me wonder what this next product by Tacx will be. It’s an article written in Dutch about the visit of a Dutch politician to the Tacx factory in Wassenaar, The Netherlands. After showing him the new Tacx Neo Smart, they also showed him a future product. Let me try to translate that part of the article: “… a future project: a “climb trainer” that can be used to simulate mountain stages in a very natural way. This trainer that, apart from cyclist is also meant for runners, we hope to bring to market in half a year from now”. So, that would be around March 2015 if I have the math right.
HI all I know this is a Neo thread but hoping the many Kickr owners can provide some insight. I bought a kickr due to the Neo’s teething issues. Generally pleased with it but have noticed that at higher speeds (c. 30mph or 300 wheel revolutions) it goes from silky smooth to quite buzzy through the pedals even when coasting. I have tried a couple of bikes (used and brand new) but vibrations are still present. I was expecting the loud whine on the Kickr but not this heaving vibration so think it may be the flywheel.
So the question is whether other users experience the same thing? Hoping someone can help…..
Doesn’t sound normal. Obviously anything mechanical will start to vibrate a bit more at high speed but your description sounds like it needs looking at. Possibly the belt is too tight.
Definitely get a strong buzzing when free wheeling after hitting high speed. Its brand new so would have expected the factory to get it right. My spin down takes about 17 seconds if that means anything. I have also noticed that the pedal stroke is quite grinding/ juddery when using 50/12 or 50/11 present on both old and new bikes but silky smooth in the shorter gears.
After reading all the posts about noise with the neo, i greased the EDCO par – so the metal noise was gonet. but i still think that my NEO is not silent. Compared to an normal one it is, but compared with your videos it is loud. see under: link to dropbox.com
when you look a little bit up here in the forum you’ll find more infos for your problem and how it can be fixed.
If you can get an appointment directly with Tacx this would be the best and fastest way to get your NEO fixed. I’ve been there at the factory, too a couple of weeks ago to swap my first NEO which had a problem to a new one… no problem and they are very nice and kind people there …
I was hoping Tacx could comment… Now that everything i apparently understood with respect to the problems people have been experiencing… I do plan to purchase one.
However if I’m paying $1600 (or whatever the price is when I buy it)… I want a new one, not one that has been ridden for 50km and then repaired after it was shipped back.
I assume you guys will be selling off refurbished (repaired) units separately, and that you’re tracking those units closely?
I will likely still wait a month or two, just in case other manufacturing or design improvements (tweaks) are made – so when I buy, I really want something new.
I would be extremely surprised if the don’t resell the fixed ones. I just hope that they actually thoroughly TEST the ones they repair, and not just have the distributor make the required fixed, then blindly send it out…
It doesn’t matter to me, as long as it works. Seems like every time I get a warranty replacement for anything, they send me something obviously refurbished. Not all manufacturers, but many.
Over at the Tacx User forums, someone has started a poll regarding abnormal noises (link to forum.tacx.com). Interesting to note that estimates in this thread seem to indicate a less than 2% defect rate and while it is a very small sample rate with only 16 votes, but thus far, the poll results are not very favorable at 44% (7 of 16) with abnormal noises!
The hoopla about the quietness of the Neo has raised the bar so high that even reasonable noises are now considered abnormal. The ‘noisy’ KICKR never had to deliver so much……….
Pulled the trigger. Bought one from Wiggle and it arrived today.
So far so good. Had a quick 5 minutes on Zwift but no time until tomorrow evening.
Mine seems to lean to the right. There is no way to adjust the feet height so I’ve propped up the right leg with 2 magazines.
My rear mech (near the bottom jockey wheel) touches the plastic cover in the lowest gear, but it does shift into the lowest gear. Same cannot be said of my Kickr where I disabled the lowest gear. Doubt I’ll use it anyway.
One thing: Tacx manual says don’t use a spacer for an 11 speed Shimano cassette. I have a brand new 105 cassette and the cassette is “loose” and is moving, causing additional noise. I’ve tightened the lock nut as far as I’m prepared to without breaking it.
I ended up using the thinnest of the 2 spacers and this solves the issue.
Shifting from 11t to 12t is really bad (actually does not work, need to go up 2 gears). I suspect I need to rotate the 11t as the ramps are not aligned. Will do it another time.
Despite that, I found the cassette goes on quite easily.
My unit seems quiet, but it’s way too early to say until I’ve used it.
@Lee C — Not sure if it helps, but I’m using an 11-speed Shimano 105 cassette (11-32) and it fitted correctly without a spacer. I would have assumed that using a spacer would mean all the gears were out of line and needed a serious adjustment.
The rear mech on mine is VERY close to the Neo on the 32, but doesn’t quite touch. Like you I avoid using it though and there’s no need on Zwift which only simulates hills at 50% by default.
If you have a 10sp cassette you must use the thicker of the spacers. With 11sp cassette the thick spacer is not required.
if your cassette has an indent at the back (tacx call this a “pocket”) then you must use the thin spacer. Its down to your cassette.
This is exactly the same as the situation with the cassette on a normal freehub wheel.
The bottom line is that the locknut should be tightened to the correct torque and if the gears on the cassette can be jingled around, fit the bloody spacer :)
The spacer does not affect the gears. I didn’t even need to adjust them. Gears are Ultegra Di2. It justs moves the cassette outwards by around 0.5mm.
Gears have not been adjusted at all since taking off the Kickr and putting on the Neo.
Regarding shifting from 11t to 12t, it is not possible to align the cogs as they would be on a Shimano only body.
The Edco body requires the 11t to be rotated slightly in reference to the rest of the cogs, which are all aligned.
I’ve only found 2 positions in which it will go. One is terrible for shifting (need to shift up 2 gears then down 1), the other shifts but takes ages by Di2 standards.
Wonder if Tacx will sell a Shimano only body? I would buy one.
I don’t think we realise just how dependent we are on those shifting ramps on the cassette.
Did 20 minutes on TrainerRoad (beta) tonight.
Resistance changes immediately on intervals. In fact quicker than my Kickr – by feel and by studying the workout graph later.
The Neo also seems to track a Stages power meter much more accurately than my Kickr. I don’t have access to anything else to compare the power meter on the Neo.
If you go from a Kickr to a Neo then what you will notice is how “spiky” the power is on TrainerRoad. Looks like the Kickr smooths the power a LOT.
Personally I feel the power output is more realistic (i.e. not smoothed) on the Neo. But I just don’t have enough experience with power meters to say for sure.
Strange. My 11t cog slots in exactly the same as all the other cogs, when I lower it on to the hub there’s only ever seemed to be one way it would fit.
I have Di2 on my main bike and did once manage to knock the RD whilst I had the rear wheel off. Everything seemed ok, but when the wheel was refitted it wouldn’t change gear to the next cog up. To resolve I needed to put the Di2 into micro-adjust mode, adjust it 1 tiny notch (very tiny movement) and then everything sprung back to life again. Not sure if this may be related.
Good to hear that the Neo fairs well on TR compared to the Kickr. Recently I’ve noticed that when riding Zwift (my main choice of App) the Neo reacts almost a second after you’d expect it to. Go over a hill, hit the start of a hill and the resistance seems to be 0.5-1 second late. It’s a small thing and I only really notice it because there’s not much else to do when riding round the same track over and over :-)
I took the 11t cog off. It *is* possible to align it correctly.
Not sure how I managed to get it out of alignment. This would explain why I needed the thin spacer. No longer need this on 11s cassette.
Shifting is now back to normal from 11t to 12t.
My tip: don’t do what I did and install the cassette with the Neo sitting in it’s normal upright position. Rather lower one of the legs, like it shows in the manual, so the cassette is pointing upwards, at a ceiling light. MUCH easier.
I waited as long as I could, to guarantee getting one before the New Year. Since Wiggle are now out of stock, it looks like I bought it at the right time.
I really wanted to avoid the initial batch and all the issues reported.
Did some tests tonight to compare against a Stages power meter.
The Neo seems to be pretty accurate. I have “on the road” goals I want to achieve based on power. I’m not interested if a stationary trainer is merely consistant – I want it to be close to the power I put out in the road.
That – and the reduced noise – is the reason why I switched from Kickr to Neo.
Personally – when it comes down to power output, I would rather be “devastated by the truth” than “comforted by a lie”.
Don’t let that put you off buying a Kickr. It has been one of the best health related purchased I’ve ever bought and I’ve used it solid over 13 months.
I can feel vibration in the pedals when using the Neo. I have this on the Kickr as well. I don’t think this is an issue but rather a limitation of the current technology.
One thing the Kickr has over the Neo: inertia. The fly wheel on the Kickr improves the feel, and higher intensity intervals in a bigger gear feel better.
My Kickr has various issues on Zwift, specifically the first hill on the Richmond course. The wattage I would need to pedal at would increase up to 600W+. That’s a big increase for a non-sprint wattage. At times my cadence drops sharply and I need to change gear quickly.
The Neo does not seem to be affected by this problem, but I have only done a single climb on Zwift on the same hill. Going to do a longer test on Zwift tomorrow night.
@Lee C — “My Kickr has various issues on Zwift, specifically the first hill on the Richmond course. The wattage I would need to pedal at would increase up to 600W+. That’s a big increase for a non-sprint wattage. At times my cadence drops sharply and I need to change gear quickly.”
It would be nice to have a little context around this statement. You can pedal up that hill @ 60w, so you are doing something interesting to “need” to generate 600.
I can’t pedal up the hill at 60w. That’s my point.
On my Kickr I have to generate a LOT of power on sections of the cobbled hill in Richmond.
The power on screen is showing over 600w and this absolutely corresponds with what my legs feel.
That is the *minimum* force I need to pedal at. My cadences drops to 40-ish and I’m really struggling to turn over the pedals. This happens briefly for a few seconds.
Definitely a software issue rather than a Kickr hardware issue.
I did 2 laps of Zwift tonight on the Neo. This is definitely THE trainer for Zwift.
I have zero issues using a KICKR on Zwift, whether it be RIchmond or Wattopia. Given that there are far more kickr users on Zwift, plus the fact that kickr tends to be the trainer most developers use when developing / enhancing software, I would be surprised if there was kickr specific bugs in there.
There’s just so many variables with all this stuff, even down to the amount of interference a household might have, its very difficult to debug and diagnose from the end of an internet post :)
In my setup I have a new (both hardware and software – fresh windows install) PC, wired ethernet on a fast/stable home broadband connection, high quality ANT dongle with small distance between dongle and trainer and I have no issues with dropouts or resistance control (on either kickr, kickr snap or Neo). I know from the past, and others, that signal dropouts don’t necessarily mean a lack of feedback to the screen, but can invoke a huge resistance change on the trainer. I also know that its possible for Zwift to “lose” ERG mode (although since a recent update I see zwift flashes a line like “re-establishing ERG mode” or something). Just soooo many things which can go wrong :)
Hi Andrew
I printed out the template it fits nicely between the frame but when i turn it up it touches the disc brake. but this might be diffrent on the trainer since the template is more made for seing if the neo smart will fit between the frame and not for the disc brake comming out of the frame right ?
Corecct me if im wrong i just realy want too use this trainer
Regards Melvin
If concerned still, do you have a LBS which sells TACX hardware you could take in and test on ?
My main bike has disc’s but I can’t use it on the Neo due to it using Thru Axles. Therefore I purchased a an Alum Framed Felt in the sales specifically for use on the Neo. I appreciate it’s a further investment, but I didn’t really have a choice. It also means I don’t have to keep taking a bike on and off the Neo when I want to train.
I have contacted the tacx support and they replied saying that with 135mm hub spacing there is an adapter for disc brakes to ensure that the bike fits without any problems
Hi Melvin
I think that you can use Caadx disc 2015 if the template fits between the frame. I also was wondering if the Rose DX Cross (disc brakes: Avid bb7 Road) will fit and tested it with the template. I also noticed that if I turn the template upwards it can touch disc brake. When the Neo came I installed Rose DX Cross to the Neo and it fits perfectly and disc brake is not touching Neo.
Short feedback concerning my Neo with the sawbone issue: I’ve returned it to my retailer (Fahrrad.de) on the 16th of November. After they’ve done their paperwork they send it to Tacx on the 24th, arrived there on the 25th. Today I called Fahrrad.de for a status update and they told me, that my order is already raising red flags in their system because they haven’t heard back from Tacx yet (they actually had set a deadline for the 5th of december for a response).
Long story short: meanwhile more than 3 weeks have past when I couldn’t use my 1400€ trainier (officially 1600) when the solution would be a simple replacement (as the problem is known meanwhile) and the end is still open. Very disappointing.
p.s. I had my printet out my emails and attached to the Neo in order to speed up the process – apparantly in vain.
I used the Tacx Utility all to update the firmware for my Neo, and it died halfway through. Now the app won’t connect to the Neo. It works with Zwift, so I know the Neo isn’t completely dead, but it won’t work with the utility app or the other Tacx app, and I’m stuck with old firmware. Any advice??
Hi Scott- here is a youtube video I just found. It is kind of crappy but you get the basic idea of how you are supposed to update the firmware. A little like a poodle doing circus tricks jumping through hoops but once you do it it is not so bad. The guy in the video does not wait long enough between each time that he is witching off and switching on his bluetooth settings. Every 25% Tacx will ask you to turn this off and then back on again. I found it best to wait a good 15 to 20 seconds between doing this step but again- it will do this every 25% as it updates.
Thank you Ray. Mission accomplished. The user experience with the Tacx app isn’t exactly refined, but once I understood that I had to baby it through the update process by turning on and off the bluetooth periodically, it worked. Keep up the great work. Seriously impressed with how quickly you respond to people. Thanks!!
Just a short recap for those more recent to this thread. I’ve had my share of fun and games with the Neo and certainly learned a few things about bike mechanics along the way. My first Neo had the gumball issue which TACX released a fix for, but then a nagging sawing sensation / noise still prevented it from being as good as it could be.
TACX though leaped in to the rescue and sent me another unit. Unfortunately this was Dead On Arrival. It was sent back and TACX diagnosed a bearing issue. In the meantime I carried on using Neo #1.
Earlier this week TACX shipped a second replacement, confident that all issues were fixed. They even tested it before sending, great service.
I’m now glad to report that this is fully setup and working well. It did require a little gear re-alignment as it wasn’t quite happy in the small cogs (not a Neo issue) and I got that sorted at the LBS to be sure it was done properly. Most people would do this themselves in minute / two.
I’d just like to say a big Thanks to Ray for hosting this great place to discuss these issues & for personally responding to many questions. Plus a huge Thankyou to Hilko from TACX for helping resolve these issues, keeping in touch and providing such a good service. What could have been a very difficult situation has been resolved as well as it could have.
I’m now looking forward to a good ride / two over the weekend.
Yes, I’ll second that thanks to Ray: What a great service to us all and your input is really balanced and informative.
I have bought a Neo and the device I have is pretty damn quiet: getting a bt of Christmassy feeling with a bit of a jingle bells sound at times, but it is minimal.
My bike leans to the right unaided as another user said, so I have to bias the skewer into the frame to have it upright: an easy fix.
I’m on Campag Athena which initially worked fine and dandy but may need some gear tuning; As my LBA supplied a sprocket set which is too big anyway (lowest is 25, too big for col practice; and the biggest is 11: I mean, when do you need gears THAT big? Merckx didn’t, nor did Lord Voldemore for that matter. Otherwise LBS brilliant (Zweirad Stadler for those in Germany).
I haven’t figured out what the cursor control is supposed to do, apart from crash the Tacx software. If it just controls/crashes the Tacx software, then I guess the answer is not much, soon to be followed by nothing.
Following Ray’s review of trainer software I have started with Veloreality. Wow! Pretty cool combination of hardware and software.
And yes, I agree with other posters: Tacx sofware sucks like a toothless pitbull terrier. The Neo, however, is a really cool piece of kit.
See y’all in Mallorca/Corsica/Vetoux/the Alpe etc etc :)
Has anyone done the “latest” formware upgrade to the neo.. is there one? There is nothing for android, nothing comes up on my TTS4 saying there is an update, but some people say a week ago their trainer was locked up and not working on zwift , but worked on everything else.. someone else commented on the tacx form a problem with firmware for trainers below serial #1000… can anyone comment on any of this.. IS there a current firmware update for the NEO in the last week or so.. what does it do? Someone also posted a 20-30 watt difference between their onboard PM and the neo, but the firmware version is never stated…
OK, then since you and I are android users we probably have the same update installed.. I think there was an update that got released on the IOS though in the last week that we android users won’t have for a while…
I bought my Tacx Neo Smart about a week ago and updated it today using the Tacx Utility on an Android phone (Galaxy S4). It went from version “0.3.1 / something / something” (don’t remember) to “0.3.2 / 0.2.1 / 0.4.2”. At the end of the process, the utility did confirm that the updated had completed.
By the way, using the utility I can see my Neo has number “03817”.
@ Lee can you post what version you have like Eddy..I have the same as Eddy (Im also an android user, but did the initial flash on an IOS from a friend).. Im almost positive a new IOS version was released a week ago…???
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On another note regarding bearings, the inner diameter of the outer bearing of the freehub is too big for the shaft by a few thou.
You noticed that too? I saw the movement there when I was greasing the freehub.
I did indeed.
The end cup that you screw on clamps the bearing so I’d thought about just putting a bit of tape on the shaft to help centre it before clamping it with cap; not ideal but better than not
It’s pretty poor that on a £1k product simple schoolboy stuff like clearances, grease etc are awry.
Is there a howto on how to check and preload the disc bearing?
If you read post #947 I mention how it appears there is no way to preload the bearing with the original setup.
As the cause of the sawbone noise/vibration has now been identified as being a manufacturing fault, has anybody heard if Tacx are going to be doing a product recall or do we just return our faulty units to where we purchased them fromand hope the current stock is OK.
most ideal situation would be that the LBS do this and swap the units that have a problem. New units will be ok.
It seems the single biggest problem with the Neo is the fact they didn’t just include a cassette.
I plan to buy a Neo to allow me to get a good cardio workout at home… In a way that I will be entertained enough to extend my workouts to the 1+ hour length, on a daily basis.
I have no chain whip… No spare cassette or cassette nut. While mechanically inclined, I have no real desire to be a bike mechanic. While I have a lot of tools, I actually do not have a torque wrench for the proper tightening of the cassette nut. (I realize I can get away without that, but still) Aside from the multi-hub problem(s), I just really would rather not bother – I’d prefer, like it’s competitors, to just take it into my living room, and pop the bike on in a few minutes and be done.
I think it’s a massive fail by the product management team at Tacx to not just do what other manufacturers have done. And now with the problems of the multi-hub, they are living with their poor product requirement decisions. (They could have handled a different # speed configuration via special order if it was really important to some people)
But since I live in a flat, trainer noise is a big concern for me… So in the end I’ll likely buy a Neo. I’d like to wait until they get their next revision out. While I realize their next generation might be 1-2 years away (or more), it is possible in 6 months they have an interim revision that addresses the uncommon (but very painful considering these aren’t readily available at most LBS’s) problems.
well, in general you are right – there should be an option to order the NEO with a cassette … but which one? Campa? Shimano? 12-28? 11-29? 10 speed? 11 speed? hmmm … so many choices …
And really the Edco multi cassette body is not bad – it works perfectly with my Shimano 10 speed cassette.
I think the Edco solution (when installed correctly) is fine, and I agree that supplying a cassette is a can of worms. Too many variables.
They should supply a Campag tool though. I had a choice of cassettes, but no campy tool when my Neo arrived.
I know guys – you do bring up valid points.
The thing is though – the “trainer to buy” before the Neo came out was what, the Kickr? Which of course, comes with a cassette, right?
The problems from the (granted more mature product at this point) Kickr, are a lot less, are they not?
I’d love to have the Neo already – really I would. But as someone said just below, the place I would have bought it from (Clever Training)… Brand new unit one would think as they just arrived… And it still has problems. (Although likely unrelated to the multihub)
Have to say I’m shocked by the people that don’t have chain whips and tools required to change cassettes. What do you all do every year when chain and cassette wear requires replacements?
Lbs? If so then I don’t see what the fuss is all about getting lbs to fit the trainer cassette.
You do realise one cassette won’t last forever on the neo, right? Unless you want the cassette to wear the chain to wear the chainrings costs even more money ?
“They should supply a Campag tool though. I had a choice of cassettes, but no campy tool when my Neo arrived.”
yes, a Campy tool is not very expensiv if you have to buy it, but if you are not aware that you need one when you buy your NEO it is annoying.
And if I can order a Campy tool for 7 Euro I can imagine for what a price TACX could get a few thousands for the delivery with the NEOs…
Not me. I know a guy who has over a dozen ironmans under his belt including overseas ones and all he can do is change tires.
Update on Neo experience.
bought from Clever training.. Arrived clearly opened an retaped.
After riding a few short test rides that seemed fine, it has begun an extremely pronounced clunking (bonesawing??) vibration. Sounds like what others have experienced. totally not rideable.
Worse yet, Tacx support has not responded in 3 days.
I would second the other’s advice NOT to buy this at this time..
Why doesn’t Clever Training take it back, exchange it for a good one, and make it right? You bought it from them, not Tacx.
Hey Mattv- how many miles did you end up riding? I have completed 5 laps in zwift, two over an hour RLV rides with the Tacx TTS software, and a few VR rides also in the Tacx TTS software. No issues so far, still whisper quiet and the only weird noise is a very faint hum when the Neo is sitting idle. I talked to Tacx and they said to unplug the Neo from the rear plug or unplug it from the outlet. I have it on a powerstrip and just turn it off after each ride. Let us know what clever training with the return. As stated earlier you should be able to deal directly with them and not Tacx. I asked about any returns before mine arrived and they stated they would cover the return shipping if your unit had problems. Best of luck and sorry to hear of your Neo’s fault. What was your serial number on the Neo? Thanks
Hi Mattv, is this not the Edco issue
link to tacxdata.com
If that is not the case you do need to return i, but it does not looks like it. Sound recordigs are the best in these cases
Hi Tony,
I probably rode 40k on zwift. It was fine on zwift, but it bucked once in the ride. Got on today and it was fine for a few minutes, then it started riding poorly. When I first got it, I noticed I could not turn the axle by hand without it being very hard to turn and very rough, but once I plugged it in it seemed to ride fine. I called clever today but the very rude woman said I’d have to call back on Monday (((
Good thing I have a Kickr…
Matt- I really hope she was just having a bad day- so far my communications with them have been pleasant- Your Neo problems sounds like it is a malfunctioning magnet situation. Especially if you describe it has notching or feeling resistance then no resistance? choppy feeling? Also what is your SR# on the Neo? mine is 00828. Trevor looks like his is 00818. Just want to keep note of SR# to see if there are any batch correlations.
Tony- I think it might have been the answering service… still not the best experience.
Strangely, my iphone or ipad apps do not report the serial number., i could see where it gets displayed, but there was no number…
I really liked this trainer when it was working. i think this type of device is the future of trainers. Always risky buying 1st generation equipment..
3 laps in on zwift with my neo and issue free. 10 speed shimano hub installed with the provided spacer and no issues. Caad10 plenty of clearance on the chainstay and seatstays. As mentioned above the unit would not turn when it first arrived. I plugged it in, heard a loud magnetic click, and the thing has been perfect ever since. I dont put out a big wattage so its possible i need to stress it sone more but so far its perfect.
My serial number is 801500818
Mine behaved the same way when I first got it and plugged it, as if the magnets retracted and allowed the disc to spin. After a bit of riding, it “locked down” again and not it not only has high resistance that is fixed, it has pronounced “notchy” feel and is completely unrideable..
After playing around with my unit a bit more, I’m not sure my unit is actually experiencing the same “bonesaw” issue as other have reported. Mine is more of stair stepping kind of feeling (very pronounced.) The unit is recognized by Zwift (and the Tacx App), but it does not output any information to the software and the colored lights don’t flash underneath when I (attempt) to pedal….
I was able to update the unit to the latest firmware before it locked up.
Hey Trevor- I only noticed 5 numbers on my iPhone ap when it showed my SR#. Mine is 00828- I think our units are 10 apart from the assembly line lol-
Interesting our numbers are so close. I did a lap (10 Miles) on the richmond course yesterday and I actually though I had the sawbone issue. Vibrations coming up all through the bike in the last two rings of the rear cassette. So I took a look at my chainline and discovered that my front derailleur was rubbing when I was in the big ring. It was not rubbing enough that I would have even noticed outdoor, but it was creating horrible vibes on the NEO. So after resolving that, my 12 ring is buttery smooth and my 11 ring still has a really mild vibe to it with some increased noise. I attribute that to the fact that the cassette is set further out than on a typical wheel because I have a 10 speed instead of the 11. So, I can live with that because I am almost never in the 11 ring, and best of all, I dont believe there is anything wrong with my neo at this time other than maybe a slight alignment issue. I have never been a fan of FSA cranks which is what came stock on my CADD10 and could be causing some of the issues, so unless the sawbone effect comes back, I think I am still good to go. You guys have me closely monitoring it though!
Oh and I got my serial number from the sticker on the bottom of the neo leg. Probably why I came up with more numbers.
well, I noticed that the setup and adjustment of the drivetrain system requires more thoroughness with the NEO compared to my real bike … maybe it is just because you notice the chain / cassette noises more when riding indoors compared to riding on the road.
And when I ride outdoors climbing / grinding up steep hills in the Alps the chain / cassette does make noises, too. Not all (I do not dare to make a guess how many…) problems described here are TACX`s fault …
My Neo produces the metallic clunking sound when the flywheel is rotated by hand. I didn’t even bother trying it with my bike because. Tacx Support posted a message here saying that this problem was limited to early units. Mine has serial number 801501128 in case anyone is interested in getting an idea of how many units are included in the “early units” batch.
Emmanuel, you may be making a big mistake here. You need to put a minimum amount of force on the unit for it to work properly. Its not designed to be rotated by hand without a bike hooked to it. I can tell you that with my bike connected if I rotate my crank arm by hand I hear the same clunking, but as soon as I apply a minimum ammount of effort, it properly engages and there are Zero problems. I’m not trying to say your unit isnt bad, but I dont know how you could possibly determine that without connecting a bike and giving it a try.
i do believe something is wrong here. If that sounds like metal it means there is a metal residue in it. Yes your model is in that batch as mentioned before
Tacx Support, Thanks for the confirmation about the batch. The trainer is on its way back to my online retailer after confirmation from support@tacx.com that it is defective.
Is there a cut-off serial # that I can tell me retailer not to ship back to me? I fear that their stock might consist only of early units and don’t want to risk having to do another return cycle given the long delays and high shipping costs.
Trevor, Nice idea but I get the noise when I pedal too. Sounds like metal hitting and scraping inside. I had decided to mount the bike to the trainer to confirm that it fit properly before returning it for exchange. For those interested:
Bike: Argon 18 Krypton (2012 model year)
Groupset: Campy Record – short cage
Cassette: Edco 11-27 with the Edco-supplied sliver spacer ring installed as per Tacx instructions
Result: No interference even when in the 27T cog.
So the lower portion of your rear derailleur blackplate does not touch the bottom bulge of the neo frame at all? Post a pic.. Id like to see this… put it in your 27 cog and take a close up pic of your rear derailleur from thw back.. the only way I could get my actual campy 11s cassette to work was to place a small piece of foam with double sided tape to the neo so when I shift to the top cog, it stops the rd from hitting the neo… works great now…
Chris,
I don’t have my trainer out now because I’m preparing to return it (it’s my second one and I think it is afflicted by the sawbone problem) but I do remember that the bottom of my cage came within about 1.5mm of the bump-out in the Neo frame when in the 27T cog.
I wonder if it is because I’m using the Edco cogs that I don’t have a problem. Or maybe it is a derailleur hanger issue – I check my hanger alignment early this past summer and it was bang on.
Oops. I was wrong. I dragged out my Neo again to try to convince myself that I don’t have a bonesaw issue and my derailleur DOES rub. I must have been in 25T instead of 27T.
Indeed, the upper jockey-wheel screw on the inner plate rubs against the silver disk when in the largest cog. And the bottom part of the plate is either just touching or a small fraction of a mm away from the plastic frame of the Neo. I am using the silver spacer that came with the Edco cogs (11sp Campy Record short-cage).
Sorry for the false report that the Neo was actually working properly :)
I’ve reported to Tacx Support to see what they say but I guess there’s nothing to do about it other than returning the Neo to the store and buying a Kickr or just not using the smallest gear.
Emmanuel, not so fast.
I have a Kickr and I cannot use the lowest gear.
This applies to:
10 year old bike which last year was upgraded to 11 speed Shimano 105
1 year old BMC GF01 with Shimano Ultegra Di2
Both are medium cage mechs.
In the lowest gear the mech touches the Kickr housing.
Am thinking of pulling the trigger on one, but the failure rate, is off putting. Just the faffing around with tacx and the lbs, when I could be riding my bike.
Would tacx be good enough to publish the number of units with issues? If less than 2% I can live with those odds
Ian, for me its about the silence of this unit. If anyone can get a lemon it is me and mine is working fine. It’s so quiet, you will be very happy with your purchase. You need a cassette, campy lockring tool and chain whip, and you need to read the instructions to get the proper spacers installed for the multisys hub. By design this unit is 1000 times more simple than others so although some folks are having issues, in the long run I expect this to be one of the most reliable units on the market. YOLO my friend, nobody has been denied warranty to date so get what you want.
Hi,
I know most people on this forum are receiving issues with the Neo unit itself however for anyone has got past this stage as far as saving an activity on the cycling app (tablet) and loading it into garmin connect?
I’m getting wildly inaccurate calorie and ascent figures. I have tried loading the exports directly into strava yet.
Thanks
I am using three different softwares for recording my training and ride (Garmin, Strava and another program on my MacBook … and when it comes to calories values I get three different values because every software uses it’s own algorithm for calculation.
Same with the altitude meters … I know that for example the Garmin Edge firmware does level out small climbs so that this value is in general lower as for the same ride as in Strava for example. Especially when I ride here in Northern Germany where we have mostly smaller climbs, When I ride in the Alps with longer climbs for example this is not the case … maybe this might be with you, too
Just an update. Ps if you send a mail to support@tacx.com you always receive a ticket ID number within a couple of minutes. If not something went wrong (had some reports of barricuda blockers) You can als DM on FB or send a tweet that you did not receive any.
Some info on the “bonesaw” issue reported by Lee in the beginning. We received nit from a german customer who had this issue so we could investigate it. It is related to a bearing not being locked up correct. There is a simple fix, but can only be performed by a Distributor (bearing is behind the metal disc). In case you hear that sound that lee has, please send a sound recording to support@tacx.com, so we can tell you if this is the case or it s Edco related (which is greasing). Our FAQ site on our website will also be updated.
Interesting news. Have you been able to test the unit I returned yet ?
“german customer”
That was me I think ;-)
The new one is still quiet as it should be. Hopefuly it stays that way.
Tacx Support Wrote: “Our FAQ site on our website will also be updated”
That would be nice seeing as currently, the Home > Analyse > Solutions link does not even list the Neo:
Does anyone know if many (most?) TT bikes will _not_ fit the Tacx Neo? I’m looking to get a Scott Plasma 20 TT at a decent price in a couple of days. It has integrated rear brakes and, although I haven’t checked to be sure, I doubt it will fit the Neo. Ideally I would of course want a TT bike that I can use on the trainer, but if it would prove difficult to find one that actually fits then I’m thinking it might not be worth looking for something else when I can get a good deal on the Plasma 20.
Fwiw, it fits my Cervelo P3C.
I’m pretty sure the Scott Plasma 20 TT will not fit. See post #1181.
From your picture it seems your Cervelo P3 is a 2010 model? When it comes to compatability with the Neo, do you know of any reason it shouldn’t fit my P3 (58″) 2009 model too?
From the Tacx Neo compatability stencil it looks very tight. Most so on the left (non-cassette) side, where the edge of the metal “wheel” (not-rotating?) seems very close, right?
Did you have to set the axle exceptionally far back (by using extra long dropout screws)? I assume one could do the trick by adding the extra 135mm axle spacer, but guess you didn’t do that :)
You haven’t experienced any problems with the frame twisting and making contact with the Neo at heavy load?
I fitted a 51cm 2008 P3C on a Neo without any problems. I assume you will have more clearance on a 58cm frame, but the template should give you the definitive answer.
Thanks for feedback. Can now confirm that my 58cm 2010 P3 fitted as well.
Hey, i just got a Cervelo P3 frame and it seems very tight from the non cassette side, is that the norm on a 2017/18 Neo (not sure which one i have bough it during black Friday last year)
The clearance is around 1-2 mm only which is kinda worrying, is it the same case for your P3? do you think its ok to use the bike on the Neo?
Pretty annoyed now – my Neo went back to the UK distributors who confirmed it was broken and would need to be replaced.
Current wait time on more stock? 1 month. :/
I think all Neo owners are annoyed now, or soon about to be……
To be fair, since the sawbone resolution has only just been found, surely any UK stock will already be “in doubt” anyway ??
Whilst its a bit of a logistical nightmare you’d think the best thing to do would be to get everything sent back, all issues resolved and ensure any stock supplied now has grease and washers ;-)
cancelled my order, ordering the kickr instead. Love the concept of the Neo but not willing to stress test it for them and pretty disappointed that they havent allocated a reserve for repairs/restock as companies generally do when launching a new product (I thought?) will revisit in a year or so and maybe take the plunge then.
So even units not making noise now are basically ticking time bombs without a bearing washer that Can only be replaced by sending the unit in? Will this be covered by warranty? Super disappointing considering we’ll probably all have to pay that shipping ourselves! If my unit just shipped from trisports in the USA will it already have this washer? Or the units from the newest batch still don’t angry the fix of new washer and adequate greasing?
Cause I’d rather replace a silly washer myself than send it in even if it requires specialized tools. What tools would I need? Will you be sending detailed instructions on how to do it for those of us confident and handy enough to take the job on ourselves?
From the posts so far it appears that solving the “sawing” issue involves access to the insides. Therefore I’d assume that due to possible injury (and in the USA that means a law suit) you’d not be allowed to complete this yourself.
Hopefully I should get an update on mine later this week with this new knowledge out there. Also my 2nd Neo should now be back at HQ and under investigation to help further with diagnosis.
I can’t see how any Neo’s have this fix yet, but the $1m question is whether some units were faulty or this is a fault waiting to happen on all.
I doubt you have the right tool for that… ;-) And if you like to know, I does not have this either!
Exactly what is that tool used for? Most indicate that once the end cap is removed, the freehub comes off fairly easily, so not sure what that bearing puller would be used for.
Therefor!
My new just arrived. Ordered from Trisports with 20% discount for the halloween sale. I debated long and hard about cancelling this order and going with kickr– GLAD I WAITED IT OUT!!!
This is a great specimen so far. Minimal chunky vibration at low speeds, disappears at normal medium speed tempo. The loudest thing in the room by far is my drivetrain. Connection to zwift took all of 5 minutes including updating to latest Neo firmware via iPad. No issues running with cheap ant+ dongle to macbook pro and using HDMI cable to mirror onto my 55″ TV. Love this thing. Can’t wait to do an FTP test as I have never had a power meter and want to structure some good workouts to come out stronger than ever this Spring. Will be putting many hours on this over the next few weeks. Will report back if any issues develop but so far so good.
Oh and also, Cannondale Super six (non evo) 2013 size 52cm fits no problem in case anyone wondered since someone above had issues with a similar bike.
typo, oops. My new Neo arrived. Not my ‘new’ arrived. Too excited to do any spell checking haha!
Joe. Glad to hear that your Neo is working well. I got mine from TriSport also (serial # 801501772). Started out nicely but second time on it it vibrated like crazy and made quite a racket.
Took the cassette/hub assembly off and found the little round thing to be bone dry. Greased the doohickey and reinstalled it (very simple to do). Didn’t seem to do much at first but after riding for about 20 minutes the vibrations and noise just about disappeared. Amazing what a little grease can do!
Hoping that things will be even quieter tomorrow but I suspect the rest of the noise may be my drive train.
The one negative thing I will add is that I also cannot go into my largest cog on rear cassette without the deraileur hangar rubbing the metal flywheel. Not a big deal to me, I just will try not to use the granny gear in back– not much use for it during training anyway– but worth mentioning.
Are you running Campagnolo or Shimano.. I have now succesfully got a full 11s Campagnolo 11-27 block to work… I am using a .55mm spacer behind the cassette which is what Mavic wanted Campy users to do on older wheelsets.. I then cut a small square of packing foam , about 1/4 inch thick and put double sided tape on it… Campag rear derailleur touches the bottom frame of the neo… now I have the foam piece there so the back of the rd plate touches the foam and not the neo frame, this keeps the top pulley away from the flywheel as well. not the best solution, but its working fine for me! I am using mechanical drivetrain so there is probably some flex ad forgiveness… Im not sure how something like that would react with electronic with the servo…
If you run Tacx RLV or Veloreality at the actual gradient you will probably appreciate that small cog.. grab Veloreality’s free Paterberg loop and run full 18% grade!!
“grab Veloreality’s free Paterberg loop and run full 18% grade”
Lol – No thanks. I’m happy with Zwifts 8-12% slopes that are in fact only simulated at 50% (by default). My knees don’t do 18% even in the real world, let alone on a trainer.
I’ve now noticed that the rubbing / sawing does occur on the small cassette cogs using the small FD too, just that I never noticed due to changing up to the Big FD before I’d normally use those gears.
Still trying to just ride around the issue at the moment until support come back with a way forward.
You can knock veloreality down to whatever level you want too for slope as well…. have you greased the sleeve under the cassette? Takes 2 minutes, 3 minutes if you don’t know how to use an allan key :)
My second Neo has the sawbone issue. When I ride, there is a vibration/noise that transmits through the bike and floor of my house.
I sent a recording to tacx support and they said they couldn’t help me and that I needed to contact the dealer. I fear this is going to be a protracted process of convincing my dealer that the unit is actually defective.
With my first Neo and with my Genius before it (replaced twice in 3 years), Tacx Support had always confirmed that the unit needed to be exchanged which I then provided to my dealer. In fact, the first time I had a problem with my Genius, the dealer said he wouldn’t get it exchanged unless Tacx said it was defective.
I am worried now that, in the face of many complaints, Tacx is pushing this issue to the dealers to sort out and that customers who bought lemons will be at the mercy of these dealers.
That’s too bad. I think this is pretty well understood to be a failed product launch at this point. Hopefully they will get the manufacturing issues ironed out at some point and it’s not a fundamental design issue. I think the basic concept is great and the way most trainers will work in the future…
I’ve got a second one on order. Hope springs eternal in the human breast….
Well there does seem to be design issue with respect to clearances for Campy 11sp derailleurs. I can’t believe Tacx didn’t know about this before releasing – they probably decided to release anyways and hope that most customers would just accept that they cannot use their largest cog.
If there is really a problem with Campy 11speed I don’t think that TACX did it with intention…
and usually for any warranty issues your dealer is responsible. If somethings wrong with the new bike you bought you wouldn’t go directly to, for example, Cannondale.
I have Campy 11spd. I can confirm that it does not have clearance for the inner cog. My Kickr has the same problem. The chainline is good and consistent with my bike (I don’t have adjust anything going from wheels to Neo), but the problem is that the metal disc is just too close to the inner cog….
I have Campy 11s and its working perfect… here’s what I did..
First its an 11-27 block, where the bottom of the rear derailleur would touch the neo frame , I took a piece of 1/4 inch stiff foam with double sided tape.. where the lower back rear derailleur touches the Neo frame in the 27 cog, I placed this piece of foam.. the foam then draws the upper pulley away from the flywheel and I can dial in my 27 cog to make it work.. I am also using a mavic .55mm spacer behind the cassette to make it work…
Chris is there a chance you could post a picture of how you did your fix? Thanks
I can’t seem to find the answers to the following questions. How much side-to-side movement (preferably in degrees of tilt) does it have? How quickly does it respond to changes in power for intervals? And is there software control that allows one to shape the rise and fall of the power curve, or is there only a square wave option? Thanks
I don’t know the exact amount, but it seems like a couple of degrees. I find it to be distracting. It does not feel natural at all.
Perhaps if it had a rubber bumper or spring to give it a little dampening it would be better.
Get rollers if you want to simulate sprinting……
Jim- I find the slight side to side motion kind of cool and realistic enough. I ride Zwift, and Tacx TTS4 so far and I think the changes in resistance respective of the grade changes are good. I really like how smooth and quiet my Neo is and so far no problems other than my Camp 10 speed rubbing in the largest rear cog on the metal disc on the Neo.
In some previous post from Tacx support, is a link to a PDF!
link to tacxdata.com
In actual fact I believe you will find the main body has practically 0 movement. Its the fact that the axle housing bends down on the drive side that creates the effect of tilt. Just look and any videos, or behind yourself if you own one, and you can see this happening.
Heres the pic of foam for the 11s guys… on the 39×27 now the bottom rd back plate just rests on the foam… as for the 10s setup.. i still put a .55 spacer i used on mavic wheels behind the block.. just like i did for 11s
.
Utility app for Android!!!
link to play.google.com
For any users (like me) who borrowed a friend apple device to update the firmware, the 2 versions are the same.. so android users if you updated the firmware from an apple device.. this is NOT a newer firmware version than what we have already..
“…or significant other who is desperately trying to watch Grey’s Anatomy re-runs in the same room.”
HAHAHA! Funny you should mention that. What about significant others who use the training bike WHILE watching Grey’s Anatomy re-runs? Which is what my significant other is actually doing.
I guess the NEO is a must-have then, because apparently it reduces the need for using headphones (or at least the volume needed to overcome the trainer’s noise) to much more manageable levels…
“Honey, I HAD to buy that new trainer just so you can watch Grey’s Anatomy in a much more comfortable way! Oh yes, we, er, you DO need that!”
:D :D :D
Cheers,
– Volker
Just a follow up on how things are going. I went over to a friends house who has a Kickr and am reminded how loud that is in comparison.
I started hearing the gumball/cracking noise so I will be greasing my hub. This is at about 300k into riding it.
I have had it happen twice now where if I try to go from 50w to ~800w input in slope/sim mode it flashes red and pretty much locks up..
My BB creaking (stupid pressfit) is usually louder than any noise it makes.
Downside: it does vibrate, and I do hope the neighbors don’t feel/hear the vibrations through the floor. I am considering if during an ERG mode workout if the neo or a kickr in the easiest gear is actually quieter as perceived by neighbors/my wife. In any other gear than 36f 25r the NEO is definitely quieter, but on the KICKR I could cheat during sufferfest workouts and just use the easiest gear to keep the belt/resistance unit moving as slowly as possible. I think with the NEO using the small front ring is good to keep the chain moving more slowly (avoiding chain noise) and then using a cog in the middle of the casette to keep the unit spinning a little faster so it is smoother.
I rode my Neo for the first time this weekend on Zwift and TTS and so far I am VERY impressed. The first thing I did after taking the unit out of the box was to grease the cassette axle and teeth thoroughly, all I needed was a 5mm allen key to remove the cassette body. I then updated the unit to the latest firmware using an android tablet, the procedure worked perfectly.
I chose the Neo over the Kickr due to the fact that I already own many Tacx TTS videos, I wanted a trainer that would support the Tacx software as well as all other software such as Zwift, trainer Road etc. This trainer makes the Zwift experience extremely realistic, changes in gradient were almost instant while descents give you a realistic feel and much needed rest. Sprints were very realistic and ramping up was very hard just like real outdoor riding. The Tacx TTS software worked perfectly, just as my Tacx Genius trainer however things felt a lot smoother. From grade changes and soft pedaling things felt much more realistic.
During the three hours of riding I ran into zero issues, no weird sounds, no overheating. The top of the trainer was hot to the touch after my ride but I could feel an internal fan moving the air out the vents.
I understand that forgetting to grease parts is almost unforgivable for a trainer of this price but it is very simple to do and most of us already have the tools and grease to get this done easily. It is probably something I will do before each trainer season anyway just to be sure this trainer lasts me a long time.
And of course after about 4 hours of riding my Neo started to get the sawbone effect. The trainer seems to still work perfectly but the noise is annoying and the vibrations can be clearly felt through the bike. When coasting the sound is like a whomp-whomp-whomp and it seems that some parts are running inside the unit. Holding the metal disc does not make the sound go away.
Has there been any details posted about the cause or a potential fix for the sawbone sound?
Thanks, Mauro.
Any update on Neo’s erg mode smoothness?
I’ve a Neo, it will never be as ‘smooth’ as the kickr in erg mode as the flywheel on the kickr basically smoothes the power output. That doesn’t mean that the power is being applied any differently, it means the kickr probably masks the reality. I find the Neo great in erg mode on both TR and zwift with the new firmware.
I did an erg mode session the other day with TrainerRoad:
base level 150 W
30s intervals with 450W
multiple intervals with 1min to 5min duration, 1-2 min break in between.
No issues whatsoever, resistance came on quickly but not too quickly! I noticed the resistance ramping up about 1s before the actual interval started and I guess maybe around 0.5s after the start it was full on.
I liked it! (Don’t have a direct comparison to the kickr though!)
Anyone had problems pairing the Neo with TTS4?
When I scan for device it doesn’t appear!
No problems pairing my Neo with TTS4. Make sure you are on the latest firmware for the Neo using the smart phone App and also unfair any other trainer you might have paired up to TTS4. I have a Fortius, Genius, Vortex, and Neo so each time I ride each trainer I have to unfair that device then rescan for the trainer I want to ride. Hope this helps.
No problems pairing the Neo with TTS4 either. I installed TTS4 yesterday and it found the Neo straight away. I used my regular ANT+ dongle (used for Zwift) to do so.
Btw – A tip seems to be to avoid riding the Villagio course as there are some bugs. So pick one of the others. Trust me to pick the bugged one as a demo, hope to try another at the weekend.
Also intend to have a go at a film as soon as I can this week. Thanks to TACX Support for helping out here.
Fingers crossed I’ll soon be able to get my Neo sawing issue resolved. At least it seems as if the common Neo issues are known and the fixes are too. TACX support have been very good so far and hopefully I’ll be reporting a fully working Neo in the near future.
Have to admit that the wealth of software out there to go with the Neo is great. I’m hoping I’ll be able to combine rides in TTS4 with TACX Films and regular use of Zwift ALL linking into and updating Strava. It’s not all working yet, but the future looks pretty bright.!
I have TrainerRoad workouts going straight into Strava. Zwift rides straight into Strava. TTS4 RLV rides straight into Strava. Don’t need a Neo for any of that ;-)
Does look like all issues are out of the closet now, so once you’ve got rid of the bonesaw you’ll be sorted :)
Interestingly I get what people are on about with the KICKR and noise. Up until recently I’ve only ever used it in ERG mode with little ring, so its rotational speed and thus noise has been low. In Zwift now, always in the big ring with the KICKR flying around and it does whine somewhat. I think the whining is due to one of the smaller pulley wheels inside spinning at speed, not the main flywheel. Certainly the KICKR Snap is silent.
@Lee — “I have TrainerRoad workouts going straight into Strava. Zwift rides straight into Strava. TTS4 RLV rides straight into Strava. Don’t need a Neo for any of that”
I find a Neo helps greatly for all the above. When I take the Neo away the bike is much lower down at the back, very unbalanced, the pedals no longer go around and I get an oily chain all over the nice carpet. Zwift, TR and TTS4 all refuse to talk to my front wheel too :-(
A theory proffered by someone claiming to know about this sort of stuff claimed that it is because of the type of belt that has been selected. He said the whine on the Kickr at high revs may well be coming from the air escaping as the belt mates with the teeth. If that is the case then I suspect if you put a small cut at the bottom of each indent for the air to escape you might be able to silence it somewhat.
Not a sound idea. How much of a cut? Would only serve to weaken the belt. You wouldn’t do that with a fan belt in a car, would you?
Andrew- Glad issues are being sorted for you so you can enjoy your Neo as much as the rest that are reporting no problems. Mine is still spot on perfect and quiet. I only ride TTS4 VR and RLV, Zwift, and Veloreality. I also found out the hard way that VR Villagio was not responding correctly but all the RLV’s I have done so far are great.
Cut in the bottom of the indent on the wheels, not the belt. Just a small gap for air to escape, kind of like tread on a tire.
Even located in the garage, my trusty old Tacx Grand Excel is so noisy it wakes up the rest of the household, so a silent trainer is a very attractive proposition, and I have been following this discussion with some interest.
Unless I have missed something in the thread, there seem to be 3 known issues reported so far; weld fragments contaminating the rotor, ungreased hub components, and a problem with the axle bearing assembly.
A question for Tacx, if they are reading this, please – are there still units out in the marketplace that have one or more of these defects, and am I taking pot luck on getting a fully functioning Neo if I buy at the moment?
your LBS has to do the adjustments so it’s best you ask them if it they greased everything etc.
OK, so a retailer should be able to do all the mods necessary to fix units now?
As I understand it the distributer has to make the fixes. Your LBS cannot.
Just an update to my own question:
I contacted the UK distributor to ask about this, and they informed me that they believe Tacx are applying the fixes during manufacturing, so everything now being imported should be OK (as far as the known issues are concerned). They think that most of the UK stock that was imported before the known issues were identified has probably now been sold, but obviously can’t guarantee this.
So if you can get new stock, you should be OK (assuming there are no new issues to be uncovered) but I guess there could still be some lemons out there!
Just got my Neo and after a test run using Kinomap everything seems fine. Sound from drivetrain and my breathing drowned out any noise from the trainer! Looks like I can finally make the move in from the garage this winter..
Now I just need a iOS app to control it, any suggestions? I’ve used ismoothrun and imobileinterval to build structured sessions for watt targeting in the past with a KICKR but they doesn’t support the Neo (for now at least). Is there any other apps to try that supports the Neo?
Thanks!
Trainerroad
Question for people who use both PC and iPad to run their training software – which is best? I’ve finally pushed the button on a Neo. I plan to use it with some kind of structured training software and/or something with video (real or computer generated). I don’t want to go overboard on the dongles yet, so
Question for the experienced Neo users (any smart trainer user actually) – am I better using my laptop or ipad?
PC, without a doubt. On a PC you’ve access to ANT+ and then FE-C or basic power/cadence.
On an iPad, using bluetooth, you’re stuck with apps which support the Neo over bluetooth, which AFAIK is only the Tacx training apps.
I haven’t included the option of running ANT+ from an iPad as I can’t believe anyone would want to torture themselves that much. Even then you’d need an iPad app which “knows” ANT+ and then supports FE-C. Unicorn shite rare :)
Thanks Lee, very interesting. I thought (maybe wrongly) that I could stick a dongle into the ipad and run, say, Trainerroad/Sufferfest or something? Just thought it might be easier to use ipad than laptop.
So out of the box, the iPad is bluetooth. TrainerRoad supports bluetooth BUT NOT FOR RESISTANCE CONTROL OF A NEO !! It would however, work if you were happy to use your gears/cadence to achieve the TR power targets.
You can put an ANT+ dongle in your iPad and then apparently TrainerRoad on iOS does indeed support FE-C over ANT+. So not rare as I originally thought, kudos for TR guys for supporting FE-C on iOS/ANT+ which I suspect not many people use. There is of course the question of whether a Neo, using FE-C over iOS ANT+ with TR actually works ;-)
It looks like (assuming your iPad is new) you need a Wahoo ANT+ dongle plus a 30-pin to lightning adapter. PC with garmin ANT+ USB seems the simpler option here by far and is what the maintstream users would run i think.
Concerning TR-Neo combination, OS X has been working excellently for me (details in some post way above…) but in iOS it just doesn’t seem to track fast/accurately enough to be useful at this moment; haven’t checked though whether this is just me and whether this is being addressed by either Tacx or TR. Agree though that iPad is way more convenient, so that’s what I always used with the KICKR.
Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound as they say. I’m going to give the ipad route a go. Ordered a PC dongle just in case…
And I meant to say Thanks Lee for investigating!
The PC certainly gives you more options and hooked up via HDMI to a big screen will give a better experience too. I’m using Zwift this way and have had brief flirts with TTS4. Zwift + Neo + TV = Very Happy Cyclists..!
I also have the ANT+ dongle for the iPad but haven’t tried it yet. Will look forward to your feedback.
I use TR on an iPad with an Ant dongle (I use the wahoo one). It works absolutely fine on the Neo, I can’t detect any difference in response compared to using the PC (mac in my case). I prefer the iPad as it’s faster and easier, plus it lets me run Zwift at the same time which is a useful distraction when the intervals ramp up.
That’s great to hear as I prefer iPad or iPod touch over PC, just easier to have within reach. Checked again and yes, iOS seems to work for me too now. (Same versions and settings as the several times it didn’t work before, not sure what changed?)
iOS doesn’t seem to have the ancipatory change in resistance implemented in the PC versions for trainers that are slower to respond than the Neo, so that feels actually nicer on iOS. Did have one sudden increase in resistance though with power matched to P1 that seemed due to lost power meter, and one that I can’t explain yet.
Wait, you use an iPad with a dongle and it can make auto resistance changes to the Neo from trainer road? I thought this didn’t work with iPads or iPhones and you needed a full fledged computer (mac or PC)? Am I wrong? That would be nice if I could run trainer road from ipad, and zwift from macbook at same time!
Everyone..any help appreciated, I have an issue with the Neo and FTP testing. I have tried TrainerRoad, TrainerRoad Beta (with Sufferfest – Rubber Glove) TTS4 and Zwift and they all show roughly the same problem,. They all work fine during the warm-up phase (assume in ERG mode) and as soon as they get to the 20mins of the actually FTP (pain) they all just lockup the Neo. It seems like they switch to resistance mode at 100%, on TR Beta I can jump off and knock it down to 20% on the laptop. I’m running Win10/Ant+ dongle and all the latest software. I can try it on the Mac on Zwift and TR. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this, or is it just me and I have something configured incorrectly. Thanks.
Is your firmware current on the neo?
Yes firmware updated.. :o(
I have read somewhere that during an FTP test on any platform the programme is designed to switch from ERG to resistance. This allows you to get a more accurate reading due to the fact that if you stay in ERG no matter how much power you output the trainer will adjust the resistance to its target. Regarding the lock up sorry I cant help.
Hi Martin,
This is a known issue in trainerroad.
******************
Hey Marvin,
We are aware of this issue with the Tacx Neo when completing a FTP test. We actually just received our own Neo today! We should be able to fix the issue now very soon.
In the mean time, instead of switching to erg mode during the intervals, just lower the resistance. You can do this by using the left and right arrow keys on your keyboard.
*************
So lower the resistance mode with the keys and you are fine.
I’ve done the FTP test in Zwift and it did switch from ERG to Resistance (slope) I believe during the test window. However the Neo did not lockup and I was able to “enjoy” 20 minutes of the anticipated pain without technical issues.
a message I received from support(at)tacx:
“All the known issues we have are solved.
This means that the NEO’s which now come from the factory, are improved with respect to the first batch”.
Yes, I followed up my earlier question about outstanding problems by contacting the UK distributor. They also told me that the fixes are being applied at the factory, so anything now being imported to the UK should be OK as far as known issues are concerned.
The UK distributor thought that most of the original stock supplied before the issues were identified has probably now been sold (and not all of the original stock had problems anyway) but they obviously couldn’t guarantee that, and there could still be a few lemons out there with retailers.
Update on my neo, greased my hub and still having vibes and grinding in the last two gears. Tacx is air mailing me a new edco and has been very responsive and helpful. I think the problem is alignment because it just seems that the cassette (shimano 10 spd) is spaced really far out compared to a real wheel. Not sure if i will be able to replace the edco myself. Anyone done this yet? Hoping this will fix my vibes, otherwise very happy with my neo.
@Trevor. Sounds like the same issue as me. I get the rubbing / grinding in the last 4/5 gears when riding the big cog and the last 2/3 when on the smaller. This rubbing has apparently been diagnosed to be a bearing issue that cannot be resolved by a user. For reference I use an 11-Speed Shimano 105.
Replacing the EDCO is simple. You will be fine. Hopefully this solves your issue.
Thats what it feels like. Willing to try the edco, but after that it is going to get returned. Will probably replace with another neo though. I love this thing.
Could someone post a pic of their chainline from the rear when you are in the big ring up front and 11 ring in the rear with the neo? Do u get any vibes or grinding in the last gear?
Campy 11 53×39 11-27 block..dont notice anuthing crazy on mine…
Campy 11 53×39 11-27 block..dont notice anything crazy on mine…
Thanks for this. Looks about mine as far as the chainline is concerned. Good to know you dont have any grinding.
Is anyone using a Suunto Movestick Mini with the Neo?
I use one with a Kikcr for TrainerRoad and Zwift.
Is it compatible with the Neo?
I’m on a Windows 8 PC.
Think you are better served with the Garmin ANT+ Stick (ANTUSB-m).
Works perfect with my neo.
Yup, it’ll work fine. I use a small fleet of random ANT+ USB sticks, including the Suunto one. In fact, it was the ‘original’ mini one, before Garmin released theirs.
I use one too. No issues.
The following article makes me wonder what this next product by Tacx will be. It’s an article written in Dutch about the visit of a Dutch politician to the Tacx factory in Wassenaar, The Netherlands. After showing him the new Tacx Neo Smart, they also showed him a future product. Let me try to translate that part of the article: “… a future project: a “climb trainer” that can be used to simulate mountain stages in a very natural way. This trainer that, apart from cyclist is also meant for runners, we hope to bring to market in half a year from now”. So, that would be around March 2015 if I have the math right.
Forgot to include the actual link to the article: link to wassenaarders.nl
Well, I had no idea, but such a Tacx trainer for climbing already exists for a while:
link to youtube.com and link to youtube.com.
HI all I know this is a Neo thread but hoping the many Kickr owners can provide some insight. I bought a kickr due to the Neo’s teething issues. Generally pleased with it but have noticed that at higher speeds (c. 30mph or 300 wheel revolutions) it goes from silky smooth to quite buzzy through the pedals even when coasting. I have tried a couple of bikes (used and brand new) but vibrations are still present. I was expecting the loud whine on the Kickr but not this heaving vibration so think it may be the flywheel.
So the question is whether other users experience the same thing? Hoping someone can help…..
Doesn’t sound normal. Obviously anything mechanical will start to vibrate a bit more at high speed but your description sounds like it needs looking at. Possibly the belt is too tight.
Thanks Lee
Definitely get a strong buzzing when free wheeling after hitting high speed. Its brand new so would have expected the factory to get it right. My spin down takes about 17 seconds if that means anything. I have also noticed that the pedal stroke is quite grinding/ juddery when using 50/12 or 50/11 present on both old and new bikes but silky smooth in the shorter gears.
Searching a bit more seems wahoo recommend a spin down if 15seconds so belt is only marginally loose. I must have bought a minger…:-(
Under the following link you find a video how to tighten the belt.
link to dropbox.com
After reading all the posts about noise with the neo, i greased the EDCO par – so the metal noise was gonet. but i still think that my NEO is not silent. Compared to an normal one it is, but compared with your videos it is loud. see under:
link to dropbox.com
what do you think
Hi Christian, sounds like you got the so called “sawbone” fault…
This can only be fixed by Tacx or a distributer so far…
Where are you from?
Hi Einundsiebzig,
i am from germany, purchased at bike24. but i am each week near to the tax factory. i have a ticket now, will try to drive direct to tacx.
or ist there any other quick chance to fix it.
when you look a little bit up here in the forum you’ll find more infos for your problem and how it can be fixed.
If you can get an appointment directly with Tacx this would be the best and fastest way to get your NEO fixed. I’ve been there at the factory, too a couple of weeks ago to swap my first NEO which had a problem to a new one… no problem and they are very nice and kind people there …
i was today in the factory of tacx and my neo was changed. for me it is solved. super support from tacx – thanks to Heiko from tacx.
Hi all,
can I put my Cyclocross bike Focus Mares Ax 2016 with the new Rapid AXIE 12mm ?
Rear: 142x12mm 63,8g
link to focus-bikes.com
need some feedback.
best regards,
Filipe
I was hoping Tacx could comment… Now that everything i apparently understood with respect to the problems people have been experiencing… I do plan to purchase one.
However if I’m paying $1600 (or whatever the price is when I buy it)… I want a new one, not one that has been ridden for 50km and then repaired after it was shipped back.
I assume you guys will be selling off refurbished (repaired) units separately, and that you’re tracking those units closely?
I will likely still wait a month or two, just in case other manufacturing or design improvements (tweaks) are made – so when I buy, I really want something new.
Thank you.
I would be extremely surprised if the don’t resell the fixed ones. I just hope that they actually thoroughly TEST the ones they repair, and not just have the distributor make the required fixed, then blindly send it out…
My guess is that refurbs would be used for providing support replacements, that’s pretty common.
It doesn’t matter to me, as long as it works. Seems like every time I get a warranty replacement for anything, they send me something obviously refurbished. Not all manufacturers, but many.
Over at the Tacx User forums, someone has started a poll regarding abnormal noises (link to forum.tacx.com). Interesting to note that estimates in this thread seem to indicate a less than 2% defect rate and while it is a very small sample rate with only 16 votes, but thus far, the poll results are not very favorable at 44% (7 of 16) with abnormal noises!
The hoopla about the quietness of the Neo has raised the bar so high that even reasonable noises are now considered abnormal. The ‘noisy’ KICKR never had to deliver so much……….
this and very high expectations, I think… which maybe cannot be fulfilled sometimes.
Pulled the trigger. Bought one from Wiggle and it arrived today.
So far so good. Had a quick 5 minutes on Zwift but no time until tomorrow evening.
Mine seems to lean to the right. There is no way to adjust the feet height so I’ve propped up the right leg with 2 magazines.
My rear mech (near the bottom jockey wheel) touches the plastic cover in the lowest gear, but it does shift into the lowest gear. Same cannot be said of my Kickr where I disabled the lowest gear. Doubt I’ll use it anyway.
One thing: Tacx manual says don’t use a spacer for an 11 speed Shimano cassette. I have a brand new 105 cassette and the cassette is “loose” and is moving, causing additional noise. I’ve tightened the lock nut as far as I’m prepared to without breaking it.
I ended up using the thinnest of the 2 spacers and this solves the issue.
Shifting from 11t to 12t is really bad (actually does not work, need to go up 2 gears). I suspect I need to rotate the 11t as the ramps are not aligned. Will do it another time.
Despite that, I found the cassette goes on quite easily.
My unit seems quiet, but it’s way too early to say until I’ve used it.
@Lee C — Not sure if it helps, but I’m using an 11-speed Shimano 105 cassette (11-32) and it fitted correctly without a spacer. I would have assumed that using a spacer would mean all the gears were out of line and needed a serious adjustment.
The rear mech on mine is VERY close to the Neo on the 32, but doesn’t quite touch. Like you I avoid using it though and there’s no need on Zwift which only simulates hills at 50% by default.
I can change from 11 to 12 and visa-versa.
If you have a 10sp cassette you must use the thicker of the spacers. With 11sp cassette the thick spacer is not required.
if your cassette has an indent at the back (tacx call this a “pocket”) then you must use the thin spacer. Its down to your cassette.
This is exactly the same as the situation with the cassette on a normal freehub wheel.
The bottom line is that the locknut should be tightened to the correct torque and if the gears on the cassette can be jingled around, fit the bloody spacer :)
@ Andrew
The spacer does not affect the gears. I didn’t even need to adjust them. Gears are Ultegra Di2. It justs moves the cassette outwards by around 0.5mm.
Gears have not been adjusted at all since taking off the Kickr and putting on the Neo.
Regarding shifting from 11t to 12t, it is not possible to align the cogs as they would be on a Shimano only body.
The Edco body requires the 11t to be rotated slightly in reference to the rest of the cogs, which are all aligned.
I’ve only found 2 positions in which it will go. One is terrible for shifting (need to shift up 2 gears then down 1), the other shifts but takes ages by Di2 standards.
Wonder if Tacx will sell a Shimano only body? I would buy one.
I don’t think we realise just how dependent we are on those shifting ramps on the cassette.
Did 20 minutes on TrainerRoad (beta) tonight.
Resistance changes immediately on intervals. In fact quicker than my Kickr – by feel and by studying the workout graph later.
The Neo also seems to track a Stages power meter much more accurately than my Kickr. I don’t have access to anything else to compare the power meter on the Neo.
If you go from a Kickr to a Neo then what you will notice is how “spiky” the power is on TrainerRoad. Looks like the Kickr smooths the power a LOT.
Personally I feel the power output is more realistic (i.e. not smoothed) on the Neo. But I just don’t have enough experience with power meters to say for sure.
Strange. My 11t cog slots in exactly the same as all the other cogs, when I lower it on to the hub there’s only ever seemed to be one way it would fit.
I have Di2 on my main bike and did once manage to knock the RD whilst I had the rear wheel off. Everything seemed ok, but when the wheel was refitted it wouldn’t change gear to the next cog up. To resolve I needed to put the Di2 into micro-adjust mode, adjust it 1 tiny notch (very tiny movement) and then everything sprung back to life again. Not sure if this may be related.
Good to hear that the Neo fairs well on TR compared to the Kickr. Recently I’ve noticed that when riding Zwift (my main choice of App) the Neo reacts almost a second after you’d expect it to. Go over a hill, hit the start of a hill and the resistance seems to be 0.5-1 second late. It’s a small thing and I only really notice it because there’s not much else to do when riding round the same track over and over :-)
Good luck.
@ Andrew
Have a look at the image.
If you cannot see it, go here:
link to cdn.coresites.factorymedia.com
See the “SHIM place here”.
That is where the largest “key” of each cog goes for gears 1-10 on an 11 speed cassette.
Last gear – 11t – is rotated slightly clockwise. You can see the slot to the right of “SHIM place here”.
i.e. it is not aligned with the other 10 cogs.
There is another place you can install it as well.
I have it as aligned as possible with the other 10 cogs. Shifting is not great but I can live with it.
Cassette is a new 105.
CORRECTION.
I took the 11t cog off. It *is* possible to align it correctly.
Not sure how I managed to get it out of alignment. This would explain why I needed the thin spacer. No longer need this on 11s cassette.
Shifting is now back to normal from 11t to 12t.
My tip: don’t do what I did and install the cassette with the Neo sitting in it’s normal upright position. Rather lower one of the legs, like it shows in the manual, so the cassette is pointing upwards, at a ceiling light. MUCH easier.
Do I get a prize for this stupidity or what?
@Lee C — Glad to see you worked it out. Indeed it’s much easier to fit the cassette when the EDCO is pointing upwards.
So do we think that the hardware issues are resolved and future units should be ok ?
@ Bob
I waited as long as I could, to guarantee getting one before the New Year. Since Wiggle are now out of stock, it looks like I bought it at the right time.
I really wanted to avoid the initial batch and all the issues reported.
Did some tests tonight to compare against a Stages power meter.
The Neo seems to be pretty accurate. I have “on the road” goals I want to achieve based on power. I’m not interested if a stationary trainer is merely consistant – I want it to be close to the power I put out in the road.
That – and the reduced noise – is the reason why I switched from Kickr to Neo.
Personally – when it comes down to power output, I would rather be “devastated by the truth” than “comforted by a lie”.
Don’t let that put you off buying a Kickr. It has been one of the best health related purchased I’ve ever bought and I’ve used it solid over 13 months.
I can feel vibration in the pedals when using the Neo. I have this on the Kickr as well. I don’t think this is an issue but rather a limitation of the current technology.
One thing the Kickr has over the Neo: inertia. The fly wheel on the Kickr improves the feel, and higher intensity intervals in a bigger gear feel better.
My Kickr has various issues on Zwift, specifically the first hill on the Richmond course. The wattage I would need to pedal at would increase up to 600W+. That’s a big increase for a non-sprint wattage. At times my cadence drops sharply and I need to change gear quickly.
The Neo does not seem to be affected by this problem, but I have only done a single climb on Zwift on the same hill. Going to do a longer test on Zwift tomorrow night.
@Lee C — “My Kickr has various issues on Zwift, specifically the first hill on the Richmond course. The wattage I would need to pedal at would increase up to 600W+. That’s a big increase for a non-sprint wattage. At times my cadence drops sharply and I need to change gear quickly.”
It would be nice to have a little context around this statement. You can pedal up that hill @ 60w, so you are doing something interesting to “need” to generate 600.
@ Andrew (UK)
I can’t pedal up the hill at 60w. That’s my point.
On my Kickr I have to generate a LOT of power on sections of the cobbled hill in Richmond.
The power on screen is showing over 600w and this absolutely corresponds with what my legs feel.
That is the *minimum* force I need to pedal at. My cadences drops to 40-ish and I’m really struggling to turn over the pedals. This happens briefly for a few seconds.
Definitely a software issue rather than a Kickr hardware issue.
I did 2 laps of Zwift tonight on the Neo. This is definitely THE trainer for Zwift.
I have zero issues using a KICKR on Zwift, whether it be RIchmond or Wattopia. Given that there are far more kickr users on Zwift, plus the fact that kickr tends to be the trainer most developers use when developing / enhancing software, I would be surprised if there was kickr specific bugs in there.
There’s just so many variables with all this stuff, even down to the amount of interference a household might have, its very difficult to debug and diagnose from the end of an internet post :)
In my setup I have a new (both hardware and software – fresh windows install) PC, wired ethernet on a fast/stable home broadband connection, high quality ANT dongle with small distance between dongle and trainer and I have no issues with dropouts or resistance control (on either kickr, kickr snap or Neo). I know from the past, and others, that signal dropouts don’t necessarily mean a lack of feedback to the screen, but can invoke a huge resistance change on the trainer. I also know that its possible for Zwift to “lose” ERG mode (although since a recent update I see zwift flashes a line like “re-establishing ERG mode” or something). Just soooo many things which can go wrong :)
Does anyone know if a M size Shiv will fit? Is there a list or somewhere to see what will NOT fit?
Hello.
I was wondering if this will fit a Cannondale Caadx disc 2015
ON TACX’s website there’s an explaination and PDF templates you can print to measure.
Hi Andrew
I printed out the template it fits nicely between the frame but when i turn it up it touches the disc brake. but this might be diffrent on the trainer since the template is more made for seing if the neo smart will fit between the frame and not for the disc brake comming out of the frame right ?
Corecct me if im wrong i just realy want too use this trainer
Regards Melvin
Hi Melvin,
If concerned still, do you have a LBS which sells TACX hardware you could take in and test on ?
My main bike has disc’s but I can’t use it on the Neo due to it using Thru Axles. Therefore I purchased a an Alum Framed Felt in the sales specifically for use on the Neo. I appreciate it’s a further investment, but I didn’t really have a choice. It also means I don’t have to keep taking a bike on and off the Neo when I want to train.
I have contacted the tacx support and they replied saying that with 135mm hub spacing there is an adapter for disc brakes to ensure that the bike fits without any problems
Hi Melvin
I think that you can use Caadx disc 2015 if the template fits between the frame. I also was wondering if the Rose DX Cross (disc brakes: Avid bb7 Road) will fit and tested it with the template. I also noticed that if I turn the template upwards it can touch disc brake. When the Neo came I installed Rose DX Cross to the Neo and it fits perfectly and disc brake is not touching Neo.
Hi Tero
do you have 135mm hub spacing?
and if so how much space do you have left between the disc brake and the trainer?
Hi Melvin
I do have 135mm hub spacing.
I haven’t actually measured the clearance between Neo and Disc Brake but I think it is about 3-4mm.
Short feedback concerning my Neo with the sawbone issue: I’ve returned it to my retailer (Fahrrad.de) on the 16th of November. After they’ve done their paperwork they send it to Tacx on the 24th, arrived there on the 25th. Today I called Fahrrad.de for a status update and they told me, that my order is already raising red flags in their system because they haven’t heard back from Tacx yet (they actually had set a deadline for the 5th of december for a response).
Long story short: meanwhile more than 3 weeks have past when I couldn’t use my 1400€ trainier (officially 1600) when the solution would be a simple replacement (as the problem is known meanwhile) and the end is still open. Very disappointing.
p.s. I had my printet out my emails and attached to the Neo in order to speed up the process – apparantly in vain.
Does anybody has a list of metrics the NEO output? (RPM/Cadence, Power, etc)
I used the Tacx Utility all to update the firmware for my Neo, and it died halfway through. Now the app won’t connect to the Neo. It works with Zwift, so I know the Neo isn’t completely dead, but it won’t work with the utility app or the other Tacx app, and I’m stuck with old firmware. Any advice??
Try unplugging the NEO, as well as airplane-mode’ing your phone and closing the Tacx app out. Then re-try the connection.
Hi Scott- here is a youtube video I just found. It is kind of crappy but you get the basic idea of how you are supposed to update the firmware. A little like a poodle doing circus tricks jumping through hoops but once you do it it is not so bad. The guy in the video does not wait long enough between each time that he is witching off and switching on his bluetooth settings. Every 25% Tacx will ask you to turn this off and then back on again. I found it best to wait a good 15 to 20 seconds between doing this step but again- it will do this every 25% as it updates.
Thank you Ray. Mission accomplished. The user experience with the Tacx app isn’t exactly refined, but once I understood that I had to baby it through the update process by turning on and off the bluetooth periodically, it worked. Keep up the great work. Seriously impressed with how quickly you respond to people. Thanks!!
Tony, I meant to thank you in that comment as well. Thanks for your input! Neo is up and running.
Update
-=-=-=-=
Just a short recap for those more recent to this thread. I’ve had my share of fun and games with the Neo and certainly learned a few things about bike mechanics along the way. My first Neo had the gumball issue which TACX released a fix for, but then a nagging sawing sensation / noise still prevented it from being as good as it could be.
TACX though leaped in to the rescue and sent me another unit. Unfortunately this was Dead On Arrival. It was sent back and TACX diagnosed a bearing issue. In the meantime I carried on using Neo #1.
Earlier this week TACX shipped a second replacement, confident that all issues were fixed. They even tested it before sending, great service.
I’m now glad to report that this is fully setup and working well. It did require a little gear re-alignment as it wasn’t quite happy in the small cogs (not a Neo issue) and I got that sorted at the LBS to be sure it was done properly. Most people would do this themselves in minute / two.
I’d just like to say a big Thanks to Ray for hosting this great place to discuss these issues & for personally responding to many questions. Plus a huge Thankyou to Hilko from TACX for helping resolve these issues, keeping in touch and providing such a good service. What could have been a very difficult situation has been resolved as well as it could have.
I’m now looking forward to a good ride / two over the weekend.
Good news.
Yes, I’ll second that thanks to Ray: What a great service to us all and your input is really balanced and informative.
I have bought a Neo and the device I have is pretty damn quiet: getting a bt of Christmassy feeling with a bit of a jingle bells sound at times, but it is minimal.
My bike leans to the right unaided as another user said, so I have to bias the skewer into the frame to have it upright: an easy fix.
I’m on Campag Athena which initially worked fine and dandy but may need some gear tuning; As my LBA supplied a sprocket set which is too big anyway (lowest is 25, too big for col practice; and the biggest is 11: I mean, when do you need gears THAT big? Merckx didn’t, nor did Lord Voldemore for that matter. Otherwise LBS brilliant (Zweirad Stadler for those in Germany).
I haven’t figured out what the cursor control is supposed to do, apart from crash the Tacx software. If it just controls/crashes the Tacx software, then I guess the answer is not much, soon to be followed by nothing.
Following Ray’s review of trainer software I have started with Veloreality. Wow! Pretty cool combination of hardware and software.
And yes, I agree with other posters: Tacx sofware sucks like a toothless pitbull terrier. The Neo, however, is a really cool piece of kit.
See y’all in Mallorca/Corsica/Vetoux/the Alpe etc etc :)
hmmm …. I really don’t understand why everyone`s having such huge problems with the Tacx software … it works well with me since a long time …
Which powermeter is integrated, powertap? Thanks.
Has anyone done the “latest” formware upgrade to the neo.. is there one? There is nothing for android, nothing comes up on my TTS4 saying there is an update, but some people say a week ago their trainer was locked up and not working on zwift , but worked on everything else.. someone else commented on the tacx form a problem with firmware for trainers below serial #1000… can anyone comment on any of this.. IS there a current firmware update for the NEO in the last week or so.. what does it do? Someone also posted a 20-30 watt difference between their onboard PM and the neo, but the firmware version is never stated…
@ Chris
I updated the firmware on my Neo as soon as it arrived.
I used a Sony Xperia phone running Android.
The process never fully completed on the phone, but it did update the Neo firmware OK.
Seems to track a Stages power meter pretty well.
I would say the power is accurate.
Hey Lee,
OK, then since you and I are android users we probably have the same update installed.. I think there was an update that got released on the IOS though in the last week that we android users won’t have for a while…
Chris
@ Chris
Just checked it now with an iPad.
It says I’m up to date. Nothing newer out.
So the Android & iOS utils are in sync with firmware.
I bought my Tacx Neo Smart about a week ago and updated it today using the Tacx Utility on an Android phone (Galaxy S4). It went from version “0.3.1 / something / something” (don’t remember) to “0.3.2 / 0.2.1 / 0.4.2”. At the end of the process, the utility did confirm that the updated had completed.
By the way, using the utility I can see my Neo has number “03817”.
@ Lee can you post what version you have like Eddy..I have the same as Eddy (Im also an android user, but did the initial flash on an IOS from a friend).. Im almost positive a new IOS version was released a week ago…???