This past July at Eurobike, Wahoo announced their two latest trainers – the near-annual update of their mainstay, the Wahoo KICKR (2018 Edition), as well as a new lower priced trainer – the KICKR CORE. Wahoo has always had an even lower priced option, the KICKR SNAP, but that trainer isn’t quite as powerful and requires your wheel be left on the bike. The KICKR CORE aimed to essentially sit in the middle-ground of those two trainers from a budget standpoint, as well as lower the price of Wahoo’s direct drive trainer option.
Except, a funny thing happened – Wahoo probably just gutted sales of its higher end KICKR 2018 trainer. After all, they essentially just took an existing KICKR 2017 trainer (that almost everyone loved), made it silent, slapped less fancy legs on it, and called it the KICKR CORE for $300 less. Donezo.
But is it really that simple? Well, that’s what I set to find out. It’s been about a month and a half since I started riding the KICKR CORE as my main trainer, so I’ve got plenty of miles on it. Structured workouts, free-form Zwifting, and just dorking around. All on plenty of apps too – Zwift, Fulgaz, TrainerRoad, and more. I’ve been capturing all that data and have it here for you to dig into.
First though, the usual note that a loaner unit was sent to me, which I’ll shortly be packing up – along with the KICKR CLIMB and a few other gizmos from the summer Wahoo releases. I’ll summon the DHL man and he’ll hate me for the massive pile of heavy stuff. But ultimately, it’ll go back to Wahoo and that’s that. Just the way I work. If you found this review useful – hit up the links at the bottom of the review – I appreciate it!
What’s in the box:
First up is getting this thing out of the box and built. Unlike past KICKR series products, this does actually require some assembly. Also, it’s in a really tall box compared to past KICKR products.
Now in my case, I did an entire unboxing video which I’ve yet to edit and publish, so I’m taking some screen captures from said video. Once you manage to get the inside of the box detached from the outer shell, you’ll find the trainer sitting there. About 2 seconds later the power cords will fall from the foam and clunk down onto the trainer.
Meanwhile, if you get rid of the foam you’ll find the two legs in there – each wrapped in plastic. You’ll also find a small tool for attaching the legs and some bolts. Along with the quick release skewer and thru-axle adapters
Here’s both of those sets of small parts:
Back on the installation front, you’ll study the manual 18 times over trying to figure out which leg is considered the front leg and which leg is considered the back leg. Eventually you’ll give up on the manual and simply look at the front of the box and try and match the two together.
Then you can start building it. It’s really just a case of attaching those two legs. You’ve essentially got a 25% chance of getting it right. That’s because you could (try) attaching the leg to the wrong side. But you could also try attaching the leg in the wrong orientation on the right side. Again, just look at the outside of the box.
A few minutes later you’ll be all set:
And you’ll have your proud trainer looking back at you:
The power cords are off to the side. However, you’ll notice you’re missing a cassette on it. Fear not, we’ll get to that in just a moment. After all, this is called the ‘What’s in the box’’ section, not the ‘Get it working’ section.
The Basics:
The basic concept of the KICKR CORE is to follow what both Tacx and Elite did with their respective $899 trainers in the last two years. Both were huge successes for them, and in doing so they took away sales from Wahoo’s higher end and lower end units. Essentially, Wahoo had a gap in their lineup.
So to create the KICKR CORE they took what is essentially a 2017 KICKR, made it quiet, and gave it a different pair of legs. Roughly. It’s not quite that simple, but in a lot of ways it sorta is.
But before we get too far, let’s do a quick dive into the core (get it?) tech specs in a bulleted fashion:
– Direct drive trainer: This means you remove your rear wheel just like a regular KICKR
– Flywheel: It has a 12lb flywheel, which is slightly less than the 12.5lb KICKR 2017 flywheel and the 16lb KICKR 2018 flywheel
– Legs: The unit can’t adjust height like a full KICKR can for different bike sizes, it is what it is
– Cassette: Unlike a regular KICKR, this unit doesn’t include a cassette, which will set you back $50-$60, plus $10-$20 in tools to install
– Sound: This uses the new KICKR 2018’s belt system, so it’s silent as well – a huge difference to competitors
– Handle: This unit lacks a handle compared to newer KICKR units, still, it’s not too bad to move around as I found out for taking photos
– Protocol Compatibility: ANT+ FE-C, ANT+ Power, Bluetooth Smart Trainer Control, Bluetooth Smart Power
– App Compatibility: Every app out there basically (Zwift, TrainerRoad, Rouvy, Road Grand Tours, SufferFest, Kinomap, etc…)
– Compatibility: 130/135 QR, 12×142 & 12×148 Thru-Axle
– Max Incline: 16% simulated grade
– Max Wattage: 1,800 watts resistance
– Stated Accuracy: +/- 2%
– Wahoo CLIMB Compatibility: Yes. Simply yes.
For comparison, here’s the price points of Wahoo’s trainer lineup (I dive into all the details in the comparison section down further below):
Wahoo KICKR 2018: $1,199 direct drive trainer with larger flywheel, includes cassette
Wahoo KICKR CORE: $899 direct drive trainer with medium flywheel, no cassette included
Wahoo KICKR SNAP 2017: $599 wheel-on trainer with good but not great road-feel
Oh, with that out of the way let’s get into the details of setup and configuration…which won’t take too long. Unlike similarly priced trainers from Tacx and Elite, there’s virtually no assembly required here. Minus adding in the cassette – which is the same for all trainers at this price point (Wahoo’s higher end full-KICKR includes a cassette).
You’re looking at about $65 for a Shimano Ultegra 11-speed cassette. Of course, you can go SRAM if you have SRAM. You will need a lockring tool though to install the cassette, and ideally a chain whip. Those will set you back about $10-$25 for the tools. The process is super simple though and shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes.
The legs fold-out in a manner fairly similar to that of the Gravat trainer. It’s a bit wonky to close when lifting it up, kinda like the Gravat, though it has slightly more (barely) protection than the Gravat for closing your fingers in there. Either way, it’s different than the full KICKR which allows you to adjust the height as well. Honestly, you won’t notice. There are times I’ve gotten a new KICKR and totally forgot to change the height for weeks – didn’t notice.
You’ll then plug it in using the included 110-240v power block/plug. This cable connects via a small flexible quick-disconnect option on the back of the trainer, in case you trip over the cable (it won’t hurt anything then).
Once powered up you’ll get status lights for power, as well as ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart control/connections on the back:
Being a direct-drive trainer, that means you’ll remove your rear wheel and affix your bike to the trainer directly using the quick release (or thru-axle if your bike is of that variant):
Of course, one of the biggest features of the KICKR CORE (as well as the new KICKR 2018) is the silence. Gone is the sound of the whining belt, and it’s replaced with…well…nothing. Basically just your drivetrain. You can hear it here in this video I’ve shot:
This change in volume comes from a change to the belt itself, going to a v-shaped belt. Of course, you can’t retrofit this back onto older trainers because the belt grooves would also be different on the parts under the covers as well. A bit of a domino effect unfortunately.
In the event you’re connecting up a KICKR CLIMB, that’s compatible too. Simply bring the CLIMB’s little cabled remote down next to the KICKR and hold it down for pairing mode. Quick and simple.
Do ensure that you set the wheel size on the combination using the Wahoo App, that way it knows how much it can descend properly. It only takes a second to do:
Speaking of the Wahoo app, it’s here that you can turn on or off a handful of settings. One most notable setting I like to turn off is ERG mode smoothing. While this sounds great (and pretty, and it is), it essentially falsifies data from an accuracy standpoint and makes everything look perfect. So I always turn it off. But for most people (that aren’t doing accuracy testing), you can leave it on without any impact.
Given the KICKR CORE is a smart trainer, it’ll change resistance automatically in a few different ways, primarily driven by different applications/methods. But most of this all boils down to two core methods:
ERG Mode: Setting a specific power level – i.e. 225w. In this mode, no matter what gearing you use, the trainer will simply stay at 225w (or whatever you set it to).
Simulation Mode: Simulating a specific outdoor grade – i.e. 5% incline. In this mode, it’s just like outdoors in that you can change your gearing to make it easier or harder. Wattage is not hard-set, only incline levels.
There is also a level mode (set levels 1-20ish), but frankly you are never going to use this. In the case of simulation (aka slope) mode, the KICKR CORE can simulate from 0% to 16% incline – which is pretty darn high. Sure, some trainers can go over 20%, but realistically, if you’ve ever tried riding up 16% inclines on a road bike, you’ll either nearly fall over or just want to anyway. Not to mention that by default Zwift halves the incline anyway (though, you can change that easily if you want).
The second mode the trainer has is ERG mode. In that case, the company claims up to 1,800w of resistance at 40KPH. Although, realistically, you don’t care about that. I can only barely break 1,000w for a second or two, and even most front of the non-pro pack cyclists aren’t going to top 1,800w. The pros would only be just a bit beyond that. Said differently: Peak numbers don’t matter. Instead, what matters is actually a harder metric to make clear – which is the ability to simulate high grades and lower speeds (especially if you’re a heavier cyclist).
And this is where the KICKR CORE has an advantage over the Elite Direto and Tacx Flux. First of all: being based on the 2017 full KICKR, it just doesn’t have those issues. I did some steep incline testing and didn’t see any issues.
Another area that does matter is whether there’s a delay or not in changes to resistance, and with the KICKR CORE I test that in my 30×30 test down below in the power accuracy section. So check that out.
Next, a lot of folks will ask about road-like feel, and I always say pretty much the same thing:
When it comes to road-like feel, I put the KICKR CORE in roughly the same category as the other high-end trainers I mentioned. Much of that is driven by the flywheel, and be it physical or virtual, flywheel sizes tend to be measured in weight. This impacts inertia and how it feels – primarily when you accelerate or otherwise change acceleration (such as briefly coasting). It’s got a 12lb/5.45kg flywheel, which is almost exactly the same as the KICKR 2017 (and all previous KICKR’s), as well as the high-end Elite Drivo II.
The exact flywheel weight isn’t everything though, because companies can use differing methods to significantly enhance the effective flywheel weight (or simulated weight in other lingo). For example, Elite’s Drivo has two listed sizes, one is the actual flywheel size (6KG/13.2LBS), while the second is the replicated flywheel size. This is because with its two-belt system, it actually doubles-down on that replicated feeling in the same way pulleys or levers make it easier to move a heavier load. Other companies use similar methods, and it’s not about smoke and mirrors, but rather very simple physics here.
Either way, for me personally, it’s hard to separate the fact that I’m riding indoors from outdoors. It’s still a trainer, and I’m still looking at a wall in front of me. My brain can only turn off so much of that. Overall I think the unit’s got a pretty good road-like feel. I’m not sure if it’s the absolute best out there (trying to compare them all over time is near impossible), but it’s pretty solid. When it comes to that feel, I find the road-like feel of the KICKR CORE and the KICKR 2018 indistinguishable. That’s despite the fact that the KICKR 2018 has a 16lb flywheel versus the 12lb one on the KICKR CORE. Others that have ridden both say the same – you just can’t tell.
Finally, when it comes to calibration (roll-down) you can do so via both the Wahoo Fitness app or most 3rd party apps like Zwift or TrainerRoad. You’ll spin up to about 23MPH and then stop pedaling. The trainer will slowly coast down and it’ll measure the time it takes to determine any required offset.
Generally speaking, you’ll want to do this anytime there’s significant temperature shifts, or if you move the trainer. I found that as long as things remained stable there was no impact on not doing so week to week.
App Compatibility:
The Wahoo KICKR CORE follows the industry norms as you’d expect from most trainers these days. As you probably know, apps like Zwift, TrainerRoad, SufferFest, Rouvy, Kinomap and many more all support most of these industry standards, making it easy to use whatever app you’d like. If trainers or apps don’t support these standards, then it makes it far more difficult for you as the end user. Given the KICKR CORE is essentially of the same firmware lineage as the full-blown KICKR trainers, it’s no surprise everything here is as expected.
The KICKR CORE transmits data on both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart as well, allowing interactive resistance control across both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart. By applying resistance control apps can simulate climbs as well as set specific wattage targets.
In any case, the Wahoo KICKR 2018 supports the following protocol transmission standards:
ANT+ FE-C Control: This is for controlling the trainer via ANT+ from apps and head units. Read tons about it here.
ANT+ Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard ANT+ power meter, with speed and cadence baked in as well.
ANT+ Legacy Wahoo Trainer Control: Some older apps might still use this to control the Wahoo KICKR CORE, it’s what Wahoo first started out on, but today most apps would use the FE-C variant.
Bluetooth Smart Wahoo Trainer Control: This is Wahoo’s private method of controlling trainers, inclusive of cadence/power data.
Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard BLE power meter with speed as well, including cadence.
It DOES NOT, however, support these protocols (which trainers from Tacx, Magene, and Elite do support to varying degrees):
ANT+ Speed/Cadence Profile: This broadcasts your speed and cadence as a standard ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo sensor. Wahoo doesn’t do this for any trainers.
Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Profile: This broadcasts your speed and cadence as a standard BLE combo Speed/Cadence sensor. Wahoo doesn’t do this for any trainers.
Bluetooth Smart FTMS: This follows the industry standard Bluetooth Smart FTMS control, which is basically the Bluetooth variant of ANT+ FE-C for controlling trainers. Wahoo doesn’t do this yet.
Note that after this review originally published, Wahoo released a firmware update to include cadence data within the existing ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart channels. That’s ideal for Apple TV users (for Zwift or such), because they are limited to 2 concurrent Bluetooth Smart channels. So now within a single channel you get power/control/cadence, leaving you an extra channel for heart rate.
Finally, It’s these same standards that also allow you to connect via head units too. For example the Wahoo ELEMNT/BOLT as well as Garmin Edge series support ANT+ FE-C for trainer control, so you can re-ride outdoor rides straight from your bike head unit to your trainer. For example, for my accuracy testing section, I recorded the data on a Garmin Edge 520 as well as the trainer apps. From there I’m able to save the file and upload it to whatever platform I like.
For me, in my testing, I used Zwift and TrainerRoad as my two main apps (which are the two main apps I use personally). In the case of Zwift, I used it in regular riding mode (non-workout mode) and workout mode, whereas in the case of TrainerRoad I used it in a structured workout mode. I dig into the nuances of these both within the power accuracy section. Here you can see TrainerRoad paired as an ANT+ FE-C trainer with Windows:
And one last time, here’s said trainer in both Zwift and TrainerRoad, this time on my iPad via Bluetooth Smart:
All of this worked without issues for me. Oh, and Apple TV worked too – where I actually spent the majority of my time with the trainer. Again, this is really no surprise here. The only issue is that Wahoo has yet to implement FTMS. While that annoys me from the ‘Wahoo just can’t follow standards’ standpoint, practically speaking it has almost no impact on you. Because Wahoo is a giant in this space, all apps support their legacy/private Bluetooth Smart control protocol anyway. I suspect we’ll see Wahoo add it at some point, but I don’t expect that point to be near-term.
Power Accuracy Analysis:
As usual, I put the trainer up against a number of power meters to see how well it handled everything from resistance control accuracy, to speed of change, to any other weird quirks along the way.
In my case I used three different bike setups, though the majority of time was spent on setups #1 and #2 below:
Canyon Bike Setup #1: Garmin Vector 3 (Dual), Stages R (Single), Avio Power Meter (Left-only)
Canyon Bike Setup #2: SRM EXAKT (Dual), Stages LR (Dual)
Canyon Bike Setup #3: PowerTap P1 (Dual), Stages LR (Dual)
This is all in addition to the trainer itself. Note that because you remove the rear wheel I can’t use something like a PowerTap hub to compare as well (which I would use in power meter testing normally). Also, I did some brief testing with a pair of Favero Assioma pedals too – but I didn’t collect a meaningful amount of data on that configuration.
In my case, I was looking to see how it reacted in two core apps: Zwift and TrainerRoad. The actual apps don’t typically much matter, but rather the use cases are different. In Zwift you get variability by having the road incline change and by being able to instantly sprint. This reaction time and accuracy are both tested here. Whereas in TrainerRoad I’m looking at its ability to hold a specific wattage very precisely, and to then change wattages instantly in a repeatable way. There’s no better test of that than 30×30 repeats (30-seconds at a high resistance, followed by 30-seconds at an easy resistance).
There’s two ways to look at this. First is how quickly it responds to the commands of the application. So for that, we need to actually look at the overlay from TrainerRoad showing when it sent the command followed by when the KICKR CORE achieved that level. Here’s the levels being sent by TrainerRoad (in this case via ANT+ FE-C on Windows) and how quickly the KICKR CORE responded to it:
In general this is pretty good. Not the best ever (an award Elite with their Drivo 1 still hold), but solid. You’ll notice slight variations from interval to interval, which is mostly based on me getting into a better gear. In fact, TrainerRoad gives you a little warning before a workout that putting the bike into the small ring up front will produce better results for most trainers. And that’s true. You can see the middle intervals were much more smooth than the first few, as I shifted for those. The last two I was just simply getting tired as this was the second workout in a row I had done.
But what about accuracy within that? After all – the above is just showing how quickly it responds, not actually whether or not it’s accurate. For that, we’ll compare it against the Stages LR and SRM EXAKT. Here’s that data set:
As you can see, these are pretty darn close – at least to the Stages LR (which is the dual-sided Stages that’s been proven pretty reliable compared to many other power meters I’ve tested). The SRM EXAKT seems oddly a bit low (usually if/when I see it err, it goes high).
Still, what you’ll notice is that the power shifts from approximately 150w to 440w pretty equally among all three. There’s no delay from the KICKR CORE (occasionally an issue on trainers), nor any weirdness coming back to the recovery bits. It really nails it in line with the power meters. Again, the slight variability on the first couple were mostly me having it in too ‘fast’ a gear (which is why TrainerRoad recommends a smaller ring up front).
From a timing standpoint, it seemed to take about 2-4 seconds to stabilize between those two wattages, which is what I’d expect/want. If something only takes under a second to shift between those two it’ll feel like hitting a brick wall. Inversely, if something takes 8-10 seconds, that’s a third of the interval itself. But this timing was good:
And the power curve between the Stages LR and Wahoo KICKR CORE was very close as well:
Next, let’s look at a structured workout over on Zwift. Like TrainerRoad, this too is in ERG mode. So same made on the CORE from a technology standpoint, but just different app. Also, in this case I changed it up and used Bluetooth Smart to control it from the Apple TV. The specific workout is called ‘Jon’s Mix’ in Zwift, and it’s what Zwift uses for development testing – and also what I tend to use as well as it’s a great blend of differing wattages and responsiveness. Here’s the set details:
As you can see, overall things are very close – at least for most of the steady-state sections. The three big spikes you see in the middle there are supposed to be 800w efforts held for 10-seconds per the workout. I failed to achieve that, so I ended up around 700w. I know full well I can’t hold 800w for 10-seconds except on the bestest of awesome days. This was not one of those days.
To make it a bit easier to read I’ll add a 5-second smoothing and zoom in for the first 9 minutes or so:
You can see that the Stages LR and CORE match very well, with the SRM pedals tracking a bit below it. The SRM briefly drops out at the 5-minute marker – that could just be some transient signal thing or a Garmin Edge 1030 thing or magic pickles. I have no idea, I’m not concerned with it for this particular chart (instead I’d be concerned that from one interval to the next a mere 30 seconds later the power is different on the SRM).
Oh, and here’s the unsmoothed variant:
There’s a couple of things of note in there. First is the part where I peak upwards of about 700w. For that, the KICKR CORE and Stages LR agree nicely. As I noted, I can’t hold 800w steady for that long, but I can hold about 700w. So the nearly 900w of the EXAKT simply isn’t real. So the unit does a nice job of responding to my attempt to hold that wattage.
However, one thing you’ll notice across all three sets is that purple line as I spin back down. That’s a tell-tale sign that I out-spun the trainer (it’s also a tell-tale sign that my legs couldn’t pull it off). This happens when you sprint really hard, and then soft-pedal briefly. Lots of trainers show this symptom, including Wahoo’s own KICKR SNAP. Though I don’t typically see it on the full-sized KICKR models, nor on others of that price range. In this case, it only lasts a few seconds – but it doesn’t quite capture the recovery as accurately as it should.
Finally, the last third of the workout which is essentially two steady-state sections. Again you can see some transient droppages occurring here for both the SRM and Stages power meters for a second or two each. That’s actually a first for me in the new DCR Cave, but I’ve also got a pretty funky temporary mobile hotspot and cellular signal thingy close by that may be impacting stuff. Either way, doesn’t matter here. Instead, focus on the closeness of the Stages LR and KICKR CORE here.
Now one could make the argument that once you account for drivetrain losses that either the KICKR CORE should be about 1-2% lower or the Stages LR about 1-2% higher. And that’s probably true. But, it would also be true within the accuracy ranges of both. Note that the KICKR CORE had a calibration done prior to this workout after about 10 minutes of pedaling on it, and then the SRM and Stages both had zero offsets done too.
Next, let’s go into regular Zwift mode for a non-ERG workout. In other words, where the trainer is set on a specific grade (i.e. 4%) and then you change gears however you see fit to accomplish riding that profile. Here’s a look at a ride around Zwift’s Innsbruck course (data files here):
In general, things look pretty darn close between the units for the vast majority of the workout. So let’s zoom in on the two sprints in there. Note, I’ve smoothed the above at 3-seconds, but the below has zero seconds of smoothing on it (showing original data). Here’s the first of those two sprints. This one is sorta a two-parter. I went up to about 700w, and then backed off slightly, and then went back up again.
You can see on the first sprint that the KICKR CORE seems to be the same as the others. The Stages LR undercuts slightly, but SRM and the CORE match. However, on the second half of that, the KICKR CORE overshoots a fair bit – about 80w or so for one second, and then backs down to just barely 40w or so overages. It’s super subtle, but is notable.
If we go to the next sprint at about the 28-minute marker, you can see this happen again – also looking at about a 75-80w gap. Once again, only for about 1 second before getting back a bit closer. If I were to smooth this, it’d look like it was lasting slightly longer than it is.
I’m not the only one to see this – Shane Miller also noticed the same thing, but in his case he’s able to output more power. And the problem appears to happen the most at much higher outputs – like 1,000w+. For me, I can’t attain those wattages, so it’s somewhat of a moot point.
In my case, if we look at the mean/max graph of this ride, it becomes more clear:
You can see the peak 1-second power here about 75w over the next nearest value from the SRM pedals. Now differences at peak sprint power are normal amongst any power meter or trainer test – you’ll usually see say 10-40w differences for 1-second recording. Some of that is really just timing aspects, in terms of transmission and head unit recording. Just the way it is. But 100w? Well, that’s a wee bit much.
For fun, here’s another quick graph showing the same thing from another ride:
And zoomed into the sprint:
You can ignore the lower Stages LR value on the sprint, as I was using it in a single-sided Stages-R configuration for an unrelated test (though, it does show you the impact of left/right balance differences in sprints). As you can see, the KICKR CORE rises about 60-80w above Vector 3. Also, secondary fun tidbit about those last two graphs: You can see the normal differences when it comes to recording the same source on two devices. One of the two upper CORE lines was recorded on an Edge 520, while the other by Zwift. Very similar, but not exactly the same.
Now whether this sprint overage is a big deal probably depends on a lot of factors. For most people (myself included), I just don’t sprint enough and at high enough intensities for this to matter significantly. Especially as I am more of a triathlete than a roadie. For example, a sprint at 600w just manifests itself as anything. It takes about 700-800w for you to start seeing it.
Of course, some people may even like this ‘feature’ – it’s free wattage. Though, most days I try to at least pretend not to like it. And then there’s the simple reality that it’s something Wahoo can probably fix in a firmware update. There’s a long line of trainers that in early firmware versions will overshoot sprints. A really long line of trainers – even some of Wahoo’s past trainers did initially. So put this in the camp of we’ll see. And again, for me this doesn’t show up in workout/ERG modes, only in non-workout modes for me.
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy portions were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)
Trainer Comparisons:
I’ve added the Wahoo KICKR CORE 2018 into the product comparison database. This allows you to compare it against other trainers I’ve reviewed. In a rare move for this section, I’m actually going to show two comparison tables. The first is Wahoo specific, showing you the differences between the three Wahoo price points (KICKR, KICKR CORE, KICKR SNAP), along with the 2017 KICKR (since that’ basically what this trainer is). Then after that I’ll show you the differences for trainers in this price range from other companies.
| Function/Feature | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated November 13th, 2023 @ 9:39 am New Window | |||||
| Price for trainer | $1,199USD | $1,199 | $1,369 | $899 | $1,198 |
| Trainer Type | Direct Drive (no wheel) | Direct Drive (no wheel) | Direct Drive (no wheel) | Direct Drive (No Wheel) | Direct Drive (No Wheel) |
| Available today (for sale) | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Availability regions | Global | Global | Global | Global | Global |
| Wired or Wireless data transmission/control | Wireless | Wireless | Wireless | Wireless | Wireless |
| Power cord required | Yes | Yes for broadcast, no for general use | No | Yes | Yes |
| Flywheel weight | 20lb/9kg | 13.2lbs/6kg | SIMULATED/VIRTUAL 125KG | 12.0lbs/5.44kgs | 16lbs/7.25kgs |
| Includes cassette | No | No | No | No | Yes (11 Speed SRAM/Shimano) | Resistance | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Can electronically control resistance (i.e. 200w) | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Includes motor to drive speed (simulate downhill) | No | No | Yes | No | No |
| Maximum wattage capability | 2,000w | 2,296w @ 40KPH / 3,600w @ 60KPH | 2,200w @ 40KPH | 1800w | 2,200w @ 40KPH |
| Maximum simulated hill incline | 20% | 24% | 25% | 16% | 20% | Features | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Ability to update unit firmware | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Measures/Estimates Left/Right Power | No | 9EUR one-time fee | No | No | No |
| Can directionally steer trainer (left/right) | No | No | With accessory | No | No |
| Can simulate road patterns/shaking (i.e. cobblestones) | No | No | Yes | No | No | Motion | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Whole-bike physical gradient simulation | No | No | With KICKR CLIMB accessory | With KICKR CLIMB accessory | |
| Can slide forward/back with movement | With Tacx NEO Motion Plate (Accessory) | ||||
| Can rock/tilt side to side (significantly) | No | No | No | No | Accuracy | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Includes temperature compensation | Yes | N/A | N/A | Yes | Yes |
| Support rolldown procedure (for wheel based) | Yes | Yes | N/A | Yes | Yes |
| Supported accuracy level | +/- 3% | +/- 0.5% | +/- 1% | +/- 2% | +/- 2% | Trainer Control | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Allows 3rd party trainer control | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Supports ANT+ FE-C (Trainer Control Standard) | Yes | Yes | Yes | YEs | YEs |
| Supports Bluetooth Smart FTMS (Trainer Control Standard) | Yes | Yes | Yes | YEs | No, but supports most apps |
| WiFi or Ethernet | No | No | Data Broadcast | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Transmits power via ANT+ | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Transmits power via Bluetooth Smart | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Supports Multiple Concurrent Bluetooth connections | No, just one | No, just one | No, just one | Yes, 3 Concurrent | Yes, 3 Concurrent |
| Transmits cadence data | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | |
| Bridging or re-transmission | No | No | Purchase | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Amazon | Link | Link | Link | Link | |
| Backcountry.com | Link | ||||
| Competitive Cyclist | Link | ||||
| REI | Link | Link | Link | Link | Link |
| TPC | Link | DCRainmaker | CycleOps Hammer | Elite Drivo II | Tacx NEO Smart | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Wahoo KICKR V4/2018 |
| Review Link | Link | Link | Link | Link | Link |
Next, here’s a look at the competitors in this price point. The KICKR CORE is at $899, which is at the same price point that the Elite Direto was at. It’s currently down to $799, where it matches the Tacx Flux 1. Those are basically what you’re competing against. Personally, I’d spend the extra $100 to get a silent trainer with a bigger flywheel (even ignoring the flywheel, I’d spend that for silence). But one has to balance that with the fact that once you add in a fan, most of these trainers would produce the same ‘training room’ net sound anyway.
| Function/Feature | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated November 13th, 2023 @ 9:39 am New Window | |||
| Price for trainer | $899 | $849 ($799 for 2017 models) | $799USD/€799 |
| Trainer Type | Direct Drive (No Wheel) | Direct Drive (No Wheel) | Direct Drive (no wheel) |
| Available today (for sale) | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| Availability regions | Global | Global | Global |
| Wired or Wireless data transmission/control | Wireless | Wireless | Wireless |
| Power cord required | Yes | Yes (no control w/o) | Yes |
| Flywheel weight | 12.0lbs/5.44kgs | 4.2KG/9.2LBS | 6.7kg (simulated 25kg) |
| Includes cassette | No | No | No | Resistance | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Can electronically control resistance (i.e. 200w) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Includes motor to drive speed (simulate downhill) | No | No | No |
| Maximum wattage capability | 1800w | 1,400w @ 40KPH / 2,200w @ 60KPH | 1,500w @ 40KPH |
| Maximum simulated hill incline | 16% | 14% | 10% | Features | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Ability to update unit firmware | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Measures/Estimates Left/Right Power | No | 9EUR one-time fee | No |
| Can directionally steer trainer (left/right) | No | No | No |
| Can simulate road patterns/shaking (i.e. cobblestones) | No | No | No | Motion | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Whole-bike physical gradient simulation | With KICKR CLIMB accessory | No | No |
| Can rock/tilt side to side (significantly) | No | No | No | Accuracy | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Includes temperature compensation | Yes | N/A | Yes |
| Support rolldown procedure (for wheel based) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Supported accuracy level | +/- 2% | +/- 2% (Sept 2018 models, +/- 2.5% for earlier models) | +/-3% | Trainer Control | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Allows 3rd party trainer control | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Supports ANT+ FE-C (Trainer Control Standard) | YEs | Yes | Yes |
| Supports Bluetooth Smart FTMS (Trainer Control Standard) | YEs | Yes | Yes |
| WiFi or Ethernet | No | Data Broadcast | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Transmits power via ANT+ | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Transmits power via Bluetooth Smart | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Supports Multiple Concurrent Bluetooth connections | Yes, 3 Concurrent | No, just one | No, just one |
| Transmits cadence data | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Bridging or re-transmission | No | Purchase | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Amazon | Link | Link | Link |
| Backcountry.com | Link | ||
| Competitive Cyclist | Link | ||
| REI | Link | ||
| TPC | Link | DCRainmaker | Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE | Elite Direto (2018) | Tacx Flux 1 |
| Review Link | Link | Link | Link |
Again, you can mix and match the products in the comparison database as you see fit here.
Summary:
I suspect it won’t take long for the KICKR CORE to become Wahoo’s most popular trainer, and for largely good reason. You can save $300 with almost negligible ‘loss’ compared to the full KICKR 2018. Plus, you could ‘re-invest’ that $300 into the cost of a KICKR CLIMB. At least, that’s the proposition I’d make if I was trying to justify the purchase of both devices.
From an overall ease of use and durability standpoint, it’s just like any other Wahoo product: It just works, and works well. It’s clearly well built, just like the beastly KICKR was before it. Probably overbuilt really for the price point – but I suppose that’s Wahoo’s problem to own.
The only downside is the very slight over-shooting that both Shane Miller and I are seeing on some sprints (not all sprints in my case). For me and my power output, the impact is very minor (only a few dozen watts in the most extreme cases, at sprints of 800w). Whereas for Shane he’s a bit more of a powerful cyclist and can get upwards of 1,200+ watts, so the gap is slightly more for him. Of course, some people might actually like this ‘bug’, which in software parlance would then be a ‘design feature’. I suspect Wahoo will be able to reign this in, as this type of overshooting on early firmware of trainers is actually fairly common (from many companies). Either way, for my riding it doesn’t bother me, and for most people I’d easily recommend this over the full KICKR based primarily on the cost savings.
With that – thanks for reading and feel free to drop any questions down below!
Update – Nov 2018: Some folks have reported having issues on the KICKR CORE. Specifically the stickers flying off, in some cases the unit not being silent, and related noise-type things. It sounds like Wahoo is going through some growing pains with the new manufacturing facilities for both the KICKR and KICKR CORE. Wahoo has been swapping out units (and stickers) for those that have had the issue. I suspect this is impacting between 3-8% of people, based on the unit volumes being shipped. But it’s hard to guess. Wahoo has said they’ve increased QA at the manufacturing facility, but ultimately time will tell. Given Wahoo is quickly assisting those that have issues, I wouldn’t make this a major driver in your purchasing decisions.
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Hopefully you found this review useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
If you're shopping for the Wahoo Fitness KICKR CORE or any other accessory items, please consider using the affiliate links below! As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. Even more, if you shop with TPC (The Pro's Closet), you'll save $40 on purchases over $200 with coupon code DCRAIN40! The Pro's Closet has been a long-time partner of the site here - including sponsoring videos like my cargo bike race, as well as just being an awesome Colorado-based company full of good humans. Check them out with the links below and the DCRAIN40 coupon!
Here's a few other variants or sibling products that are worth considering:
And finally, here’s a handy list of trainer accessories that most folks getting a smart trainer for the first time might not have already:
There's no better bang for your buck in getting Zwift (or FulGaz/etc) on your big screen TV than Apple TV - it's the primary way I Zwift.
Basic Trainer Mat
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
Cassette Installation/Removal Tools
There are *many* variations of cassette removal tools, this is the best bang for your buck. Don't overthink this. You'll likely only use this tool once every 2-3 years.
Front Wheel Riser Block
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
Honeywell HT-900 Fan
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
Lasko High Velocity Pro-Performance Fan (U15617)
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
Shimano R7000 105 Cassette (11-speed)
This is a Shimano 105 cassette (thus, slightly more budget compared to the Ultegra), in most cases, you probably won't notice the difference. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
Shimano R8000 Ultegra Cassette (11-speed)
This is a Ultegra cassette, you can save about $10-$15 by picking up a Shimano 105 instead. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
Hi DCR
Thanks for another nice review.
How stable did you feel the Kickr CORE? As the legs are static, I don’t see floor adjusters like the other Kickrs, and this is kind of important for me as the laminate floor of my cave is not completely flat.
Also Shane mentioned the bike weight is more on the right size instead of being in the center.
No problems with stability for me. Heck, I even put it on a rocker plate (without tying it down) the last few weeks. I’m still standing (and no issues for The Girl in the same config).
As far as center of balance goes, I didn’t pickup on that directly, but indirectly I likely adjusted for it on the rocker plate in terms of positioning.
Ray, would love to see some rocker plate reviews. My butt hurts a lot more after an hour on the trainer than 3 hours on the bike, so a good rocker is probably worth it.
Great review, as always. Which rocker plate are you using, and do you prefer that setup to the floor? Looks like an interesting way to add a Kurt Kinetic rock n roll action to the workout. Thanks.
Damn.. they just keep making this stuff more and more tempting… Thanks again for the insanely in-depth and awesome review. Just the best!
Kinda saying what I said on Shane’s video. Definitely worth bringing up the sprint power issues, especially for those who don’t have another power meter to pair with Zwift or what have you. As for me, I’ve got a power2max Eco that I’ve adored this year so I see it as a minor inconvenience (and one that is likely to be fixed with firmware as you mentioned).
For an interactive direct drive trainer at this price point that is also quiet? I had to pull the trigger on it. I had been saving all summer long to grab one of these middle range ones (Direto was on the shortlist, too), and this just sounds like the best option for what I’m looking for: simulated hills on Zwift for a U.S. Illinois plainslander who just wants some long steady hills to ride.
I should also note that it has already shipped for me and will arrive later this week (if UPS is to believed). I know that fulfillment was something you had mentioned in previous posts as being weird with Wahoo, but in this case, it seems to have worked out for me. I’ll attribute that to purchasing it the same day it was made available. In any case, I’ll update in the comments on my experience once I have it in hand, especially if I notice anything really wonky.
Thanks for all your content, Ray! Looking forward to the hi-jinks you and Shane are likely to get up to at Interbike. 🙂
Ok. Honest, silly question: why don’t you just pay Wahoo the retail price for the Core and keep it? I assume you’re likely going to buy one to have it around (or maybe not?), so why not save yourself the shipping hassle?
I did that with the Wahoo desk actually. They just sent me an invoice and I paid it and it was easier for everyone.
With the trainers, they have a shipping distribution center in the Netherlands – so basically around the corner. And then Clever Training carries them out of the UK/EU operation. So that’s a bit better option for me there.
It’s kinda a rule and tradition for him, and I suspect he keeps that rule to help maintain journalistic integrity for himself.
If he didn’t do that and they had manufacturing/quality assurance problems, a company could try to guarantee that he got a “good” one while most of the rest of us got “bad” ones.
If he buys one as a normal customer instead, then suddenly even a “celebrity” like Ray is in the same pool as the rest of us, throwing the same dice and (hopefully) seeing the same problems (or lack thereof) so he can speak on that more genuine experience.
Would Wahoo have done that? I think not. But Ray doing it this way encourages companies to not START doing that in the first place.
Hi Ray,
I’ve just noticed Wiggle have released a Wahoo clone table under their lifeline brand for £89.99 – not sure if it has been mentioned in the comments before.
Very tempted to pull the trigger as the official Wahoo table always struck me as grossly overpriced.
Thanks for the top tip on the wiggle desk. Ordered 2 for the price of the Wahoo one!
Ha ha! Good work!
Still waiting to pull the trigger myself – might consider it as an early christmas present! 🙂
Yeah, I think it’s the same Amazon clone that’s been out there for a while as well. Some minor nuances in differences, but I can’t imagine most people will care.
Ultimately, I think Wahoo could spend like 7 minutes of time on adding a power strip and USB ports to the thing along with wheel locks and a water bottle holder and I’d buy another. I don’t even care if it’s ziptied to it.
Nice one, thanks for the heads up Ryan
$10-$25 for the tools? Well if we don’t use Park, those three combines seem to be ~$67 on Amazon. They look nice though. You just need a cheap adjustable wrench (the main limitation is how wide it gets) and a cheap $10 chain whip. Ok, being picky….
The chain whip actually isn’t needed. You can use an old rag. However, the lockring is – which is the first one I linked to for $10….on Amazon. An adjustable wrench is handy, but again, you can also get away with all sorts of random tools to hold that in place.
I’ve got both Park and non-Park ones in my collection. No difference. Just whatever I happened to pull out of the box first that day.
I think you will probably want that chain whip if you torque to the recommended 40 Nm marked on the lockring (as I recall). And I would recommend using a torque wrench.
It is also good to have the lockring tool with the pin in the middle like the Park FR-5.2G (quick-release) or the Park FR-5.2GT (12mm thru-axle). Without the pin the tool may lose alignment and damage the ring. Don’t ask me how I know.
Yeah, the torque wrench is kinda pricey. Maybe your local bike shop can torque it for you, especially if you buy the cassette from them. 🙂
Does anyone know if there’s clearance in the kickr core to use the thru axle lock ring tool?
I don’t think I’ve ever used a chainwhip to tighten the lockring. the pawls in the freehub will naturally stop the cassette from turning when you hold the rim.
In fact I don’t think I’ve ever used a torque wrench to tighten the lockring either. Once you’ve been shown how tight to tighten the lockring — firm but not gorilla tight — it’s not really necessary. (Carbon seatposts and handlebars are another matter entirely.)
The Kickr is a slightly different beast to a wheel, though. There isn’t an obvious rim to grab and hold; I used the flywheel, but that’s not immediately obvious. So I can understand why someone might grab the chainwhip to get the job done.
I have the Kickr18 and quite happy with it… I purchased/preordered the Climb a year ago so no considered the Core/Climb combo for roughly same costs. I am however intrigued by the Wind and thinking perhaps I should return the Kickr18 and go for the Core/Wind combo.
I was worried at first about the road feel/inertia of the smaller flywheel but that appears to be a moot point.
Decisions, decisions.
As a track racer the sprint element does factor into my decision, but am hoping as you suggested this can be corrected with a firmware correction. I am excited about the price point and ability to use this when I need some rain/snow/freezing training. Most of my real training is indoors but need something to keep me focussed when not doing specific interval efforts.
Does the Kicker also have a sprinting lag or just the Core?
I decided that the Snap and similar would not work for me as there are too many pre-effort syncing to be done and wheel slippage or low max wattage limits the product for me.
In the sound comparison video you’re using the Kickr Climb with all 3 trainers. Does the Neo now allow the bike to pivot at the rear dropouts, or was that for wheel block continuity?
It was just because I was too lazy to change that out. 🙂
That said, I don’t have any issues using the CLIMB in manual mode with the Neo. Kinda lame that way…but shrug.
“so they took away sales from Wahoo’s higher end and lower rend units…”
So Wahoo now has units that will tear cyclists into pieces? Whilst I’m sure there are some people that would approve of such devices, I rather doubt that this is the case… 😉
As for the question of incline, there are a few climbs in my general area (Victoria, Australia) that reach 20% at points. Baw Baw is a lovely little ride, hitting and holding an 11+% average for a good 6km, reaching 20% at the notorious Winch Corner; and Inverness Road is another nice short ride, hitting a 20% grade near the top. So I guess this won’t simulate those rides all that well. But then, let’s be honest… you’re not going to be riding grades like that very often…
The burning question for me: the original Kickr (which I have) has a nice ability to adjust the height of the thing to match the standard height of the axle on your bike. Means I can set up the bike just by putting it on the trainer. Boom. Done. This obviously doesn’t have that… so I’m guessing I’d need to get a block for the wheel, unless I decide to get the Climb (not bloody likely, I don’t have that much money to burn)?
Cordial saludo,
Una consulta técnica, el wahoo kickr core simula pendientes hasta del 16% y el wahoo kickr snap simula ascensos hasta del 12%; que ocurre si en un software simulador (zwift, bkool, etc..) se esta ascendiendo por ejemplo el Angliru, que tiene rampas superiores al 20%, no supone una ventaja sobre otros entrenadores que simulan mayor pendiente, en el caso de una competencia virtual? realmente no se siente la dureza de las rampas superiores al 20% en estos entrenadores ya sea el Core o el Snap?
I see exactly this kind of power separation on my CycleOps Hammer too at high flywheel speeds. At 1200W on my Vector 2s and Stages, my Hammer will read 1350W.
hi Ray, thanks for review ^^
we have a half a year winter here (and i mean real winter, with meters of snow -_-)
so i really need a home trainer.
I thought about core (or direto+), but find tacx flux1 for 200eur less (-250 vs direto+).
as i seen in your comment to another article if i don’t care for some more noise, i can go for flux1.
this opinion still valid? 🙂
so i checked review of flux1 and find that there was some accuracy and manufacturing issues.
i suppose 2018 models free from manufacturing problems, but how about accuracy?
lastly. you don’t check this of course, so it’s more question to community:
flux1 have a problem with long cage rear derailleur. and i only own a 29 mtb with definitely long xt derailleur.
can i resolve it by use a road 11-28 cassette?
*11-23 cassette i mean..
was think too long, flux sold out 🙁
Hi Ray,
How is the behavior of the Core simulating higher grades in lower speed? I remember reading that the Flux 2 will have that in account.
Is that aspect is the core comparable more to the elite directo or to that “new feature” of Flux 2?
Thanks
+1
Would like to know too. Thanks.
But the real question is, when will the darn thing show up on retailer websites and start shipping? It’s been on one or two in the UK for a little while, but nothing on the retailers I shop with since the “release date” yesterday. #shutupandtakemymoney
I had the same problem in Canada. So, I bought it direct from Wahoo (Clever Training wouldn’t ship it here). It shipped yesterday and should arrive Tuesday.
I get a 10% discount with a particular retailer so I’m (not to patiently) waiting for them to stock it. 🙁
Retailers got units to start shipping as of yesterday (Sept 12th). Of course, demand is more than supply, so, I know for example the massive pile of units Clever got already sold out by midnight or so yesterday (and shipped yesterday as well).
Any idea how accurate the restock time are? I ordered from clever training yesterday, but I’m not enthused about waiting a month and Wahoo says they have it in stock directly
I’ve got a chat with them here in a few hours, so will let you know on that one.
Generally/historically speaking CT is incredibly conservative when it comes to stock dates. If there’s even an ounce of uncertainty that a manuf can’t hit a date – then they’ll push the availability date quite a ways out.
Hang tight, and appreciate the supprt!
I’ve been a freeloader on the blog long enough, I feel like I owe. The weather here doesn’t turn until after the ship date they’re giving now, I just don’t want to get into a situation where the date inches back as time goes on. If the October date they gave is conservative the arrival time would be perfect
But even CT don’t allow you to order one as it just says pre order begins September. It’s a case of checking daily right now until they allow you to add it to the cart and pay. I expected them to open up to orders again yesterday and start to build a queue.
You can actually place a backorder now: link to clevertraining.com
I just added one to the cart without issue.
Sorry, I should have stated I’m looking at the EU/UK site as I’m in the UK.
How much duty did you end up paying, I tried ordering directly from Wahoo but their site wouldn’t add duty or taxes.
How much did you pay duty? I’m trying to order from Canada and tried ordering directly from Wahoo but their system doesn’t add duty (VAT) or taxes. Hate to just order blindly without knowing a total.
I paid $141 in taxes. It was calculated at checkout. Most of that would be the HST. It shipped UPS, but I didn’t have to pay any brokerage fees on delivery.
I like to store my trainer inside to avoid humidity, but use it outside on the porch where it is cooler and I sweat less. I wonder when/if the calibration should take place, since (i) you mention it should only be calibrated at temperature changes, and (ii) in the table you mention that it does have temperature compensation.
Personally I’d calibrate it each time once it’s had time to acclimatise to the outdoor temperature. The temperature indoors will rarely fluctuate more than a few degrees, but outside it could of course change significantly over the course of a couple of days. I would imagine the greater the temperature fluctuation, the less effective the temperature compensation will be.
Hi,
Thanks for that review. I’m currently making my decision regarding buying new trainer and was decided for Elite Direto. What I can see new Wahoo Kickr Core is something to consider. Can you compare those two regarding the sound and volume? That is most critical in my case so if you can add any comment to this I would be grateful.
Regards,
Cris
link to youtu.be – core vs kickr 2018 vs tacx neo
link to youtu.be – kickr2 vs flux vs neo vs direto
core most quiet as i understand..
Correct, the CORE/KICKR18 are quieter than anything from Elite. And they’re quieter than anything from Tacx except the Neo .
alibi, Ray,
Thanks for your answers. In that case I have a winner.
How does it compare to the Stac Zero trainer? I’m guessing it’s noisier than that but noticeable or perhaps marginal?
It’s noisier to a very slight degree. You’ve got drivechain on both, but there’s just ‘air’ on the Stac, versus a bit of minor whirring on the Core.
A fan will easily cover either, as will just drinking from your water bottle.
Interesting review as ever. I have a Neo which am pleased with and don’t really need two trainers (unlike bikes)! When I was choosing between the two last year the fact that the Neo did not need calibration and had inbuilt cadence was largely the reason I went that way. Nothing has changed here it seems with any Wahoo offering. Is it just me but is the ability to just get on and ride not actually that important to most people?
I think it’s becoming more and more important. I don’t think at this point most people need to recalibrate their KICKR trainers every ride. I can’t say that was the case a few years ago.
I think these days as long as the environment isn’t changing, it’s pretty stable.
But yeah – I love my Neo for that reason.
Well, here is my take. Cadence is irrelevant for me on the trainer as I’ve already got those sensors on my bike. Same with power. For me, all I need is the trainer with interactivity, pop on the bike, pair sensors to my PC and away I go. That’s “get on and ride” when talking interactive trainers as far as I’m concerned.
I see that you’re sending the climb back…. Are you going to purchase one (the ultimate DCR review)?
Yeah, I kinda like it. Sigh…toys!
Funny, it only took this simple comment to push me over the edge and click the “Place Order” button.
The economy thanks you, Ray 😉
Haha…sorry!
Yeah, I think I even convinced The Girl too. It’s funny, back a few weeks ago she was like ‘Don’t even think of putting my bike on that’, and then I did it anyway. Now she’s transitioned to ‘Well…my bike can stay on it.’
That’s awesome. 😛 Way to be sneaky and not giving the choice.
I was most likely going to get the Climb anyway, but yours and other recent comments just made it easier to pull the trigger. It seems to be worthwhile and also working working pretty much flawlessly (compared to some of the Kickr ’18 issues), so there’s no time like the present 🙂
Adding that to my rocker plate and other gear should just about complete the training toys.
The only thing to think of on the rocker-plate is simply finding a way to attach climb so that when you take off your bike you don’t tip it off the plate if the plate tilts too much and also you happen to knock it with the front fork.. I think I’ve done it about 2-3 times at least now. Tower of power goes down.
On the bright side, it’s still alive. 🙂
Hi Ray, thanks for the if you could get for a similar price, would you go for the Kickr Core or Cycleops Hammer?
Cheers
Honestly it’s a bit of a wash there. There’s minor nuances to each. Some will prefer Hammer, some probably Core because it’s silent.
Hello Ray, thanks for the review. I’ve been using the Tacx Vortex Smart for 2 years now (it was a really good deal!). I can say I’m very content with it so far and I use Trainer Road 99% of the time. Two questions. 1) In regards of noise levels, is the Kickr Core with its direct drive quieter, much quieter or not quieter at all compared to the Tacx Vortex Smart? 2) In terms of “feeling”, is the upgrade totally worth it? I’m mainly a triathlete and my current FTP is around 263 (up from 220 when I first measured). Thanks.
I just saw your comment above about “CORE/KICKR18 are quieter than anything from Elite. And they’re quieter than anything from Tacx except the Neo.”. That answers my first question.
The second question still lingers. If I could sell my current Vortex Smart for $500 (Brazil!!), I’d still have to put another $400. I don’t know if I can justify spending an extra $400. What are your thoughts?
1) Much quieter
2) Yes, definitely much better feeling than the Vortex Smart. Essentially you’re looking at the feel of a full/real KICKR, so in that context it’s huge
3) That’s tough to justify. Of course, keep in mind that Interbike is next week, and some companies couldn’t get quite their products ready for Eurobike, but are now ready to talk at Interbike. But, I don’t know if those brands are more readily available in Brazil, I know that’s a tough market price-wise for gadgets for you and others living there.
Nice! Thanks! I will think about it. 😉
Does the CORE’s freehub work with a Campagnolo cassette?
The support site says:
Drivetrain: Cassette not included. Requires Purchase and Installation of New 8/9/10/11 Speed SRAM/Shimano Cassette
Still unsure or have a Campagnolo drivetrain? Contact support to further check compatibility for your bike.
That said, I’m sure I read that the 11-speed Campagnolo has the exact same spacing as Shimano/SRAM so you can simply use a Shimano/SRAM cassette.
Wahoo support says that you can’t put a Campagnolo cassette on the CORE’s freehub, but an 11-speed Shimano/SRAM cassette should work fine with the rest of the Campagnolo drivetrain. Some Googling says the same for that second part.
Yes, a shimano/sram 11-speed cassette works fine with an 11speed campagnolo drivetrain although the spacing is not 100% identical. I use it like that on my road bike. But if you have/want to upgrade to a 12-speed campagnolo then you are out of luck.
How about Campy 10? I’ve tried Shimano 10 cassette/wheel on a Campy 10 bike and it sorta/kinda worked, but I wouldn’t want to ride outside with it for long. I guess indoors it won’t be as much an issue, especially in ERG mode? Just find a quiet gear and stay in it?
This is the answer i received from wahoo support regarding campagnolo.
“Hello-
Thanks for your interest in the KICKR! Please be aware, the optional KICKR Campy freehub Body is not compatible with the 17 and 18 KICKR and KICKR Core (only the 2 previous models of KICKR’s will be compatible with the KICKR Campy FHB). Since the spacing is the same, 11 speed Campy users can use the standard KICKR 11 speed cassette. However, a Campy cassette cannot be added to the standard KICKR freehub body (since the splines are different). For 10 speed Campy users (with the 17, 18 KICKR and KICKR Core), you would need to purchase a 3rd party cassette, such as the following example (this cassette will fit the standard 17 and 18 KICKR along with Core freehub body).
link to rsicycles.co.uk
To summarize, unlike the original KICKR and the 2016 KICKR, the 17, 18 KICKR and KICKR Core will not have a Campy freehub body option.”
As I stated in comments below, a workable solution for Campy 10 is to insert 0.2mm spacers between all the loose cogs on an Ultegra 10sp cassette, and use only the 1mm spacer that comes with the cassette at the hub. This will line up pretty well and the shifts work without noise. Getting a spacer between the first and second cog is difficult and I left that one out but it doesn’t really matter. Remember, you’re on a trainer, not riding the TdF.
what has been your experience with any risk of frame damage with indoor trainers?
I rode the computrainer for years and no problem. Now I have my race bike (TM01) mounted on the wahoo and I get a bit nervous. Just interested in your thoughts.
thanks
Zero real risk.
If there was, then companies like Specialized wouldn’t sponsor Zwift events and have their Pro Tour riders on trainers visibly at the start of Tour de France stages.
For what it’s worth, Shimano 11 speed cassettes are completely interchangeable. I believe a 105 5800 cassette is the cheapest that’s currently available. I find it a little ironic that you mention the price of an Ultegra cassette that’s $20 more expensive and a few dozen grams lighter than a 105, then go on to talk about flywheel weight. I figured it’s probably just a holdover from maybe 2013-2014 when Dura Ace and Ultegra were 11-speed and 105 was 10-speed?
Just wanted to say thanks for this tip. First time buying a trainer and only got into cycling last year!
Ray, would you mind throwing your Zwift log.txt into the Zwiftalizer tool ? I keep losing 10% on my Elite Direto ANT+ signal. Would like to know if this a general issue with all trainers ?
Thanks.
I don’t tend to use the laptop I’m travelling with right now for Zwift, so the last ride on Zwift I have on this laptop was from early August (I tend to use iOS and Apple TV the most, with my 5K Mac for recording stuff in higher detail).
In any event, I can’t seem to find a way to share a link to my uploaded file, but here’s the important bits. This was on CORE along with Stages for cadence. It’s from a Windows PC using whatever ANT+ stick I found first that day.
Question about how the Clever Training discount works for this.
I tried both the regular DCRay discount code, and also signing up for the VIP discount, but in neither case did it reflect a 10% discount.
The VIP option seems to offer ‘points’ toward a future purchase, but not on this order.
Is that correct?
I’m not a frequent big ticket purchaser, so the points is less appealing to me.
Clever Training can’t give discounts on Wahoo stuff. I had the same questions when I ordered my Snap. The points, however, work really well in getting the Wahoo mat.
Correct, unfortunately it’s a Wahoo-specific limitation that they impose on CT. 🙁
In this case you could get the VIP for the $5 (using the DCR link), get 10% back in points on $899 (so $89 worth of points), which is enough for about 1.5 Wahoo sensors free (you get the points immediately after purchase). I think Wahoo even has a small sensor bundle too that might be under that threshold.
Or, a mat as Steve noted. Thanks for the support!
Thanks for the clarification.
Its a limit on all US retailers. Can’t give any discount except for a set small number of sales during the year. The country that loves to proclaim capitalism and free market loves to allow companies to be able to enforce minimum resale price link to ftc.gov
How certain are you that the sprint overshoot is going to be addressed? Have you heard anything from Wahoo on this front?
I have a Gen1 Kickr that I want to upgrade to a Core for the silence and climb compatibility. I just can’t justify spending for the full blown Kickr. My only hold out is accuracy in sprints as I do like Zwift racing and don’t want a power overshoot.
Any insight? I know Wahoo has made good on firmware for older Kickr’s and their GPS’, but it’s a lot of faith to pre-invest.
Oh yeah, any idea why they stopped allowing Kickr’s to rebroadcast Cadence from ANT+ like the Gen1 did?
FYI – I reached out to Wahoo and answered my own question. Here was their reply:
“Thank you for writing in to us! We were actually just discussing this with the project manager yesterday. The firmware engineers are currently working on a solution for the overstatement of power in high power intervals. This means a firmware update with a fix will indeed be released but I don’t have the ETA on when it’ll be complete. I can say it’s high priority so it won’t be rolled out in a long timeframe like 6 months! We appreciate you reaching out to us about this. Hope this information helps!”
Nice, that’s good to hear!
I don’t remember it re-broadcasting cadence from ANT+, hmm…it’s been a while. I know they oft talked about doing it, but I don’t remember them ever doing it.
Yeah, the Gen1 has the option. It’s in firmware 1.5.68. I have a screenshot of it from the App before I sold my Gen1.
It wasn’t great – it would often under report by 5-10 RPM vs the cadence from my P2Max. I guess I’ll just get a CABLE to make this all play nice with the ATV.
What’s the name of the song at the end of the noise comparison video?
Thanks for the review!
Hi Ray, can you please add a photo of trainer with closed legs? Possibly with dimensions?
I have no mancave and my daily routine is to bring the bike from cabinet, get the trainer (vortex smart) from another cabinet, set it up in the living room, connect to tv, notebook and ride. And decompose everything after ride.
I am stoked about the Kickr Core, but not sure if it will fit to the cabinet. According to my wife having it elsewhere is a big no-no.
Yeah, I meant to take one before I left for Interbike. I’ll either grab a photo at Interibke, or when I return next week grab one. Had a ‘Awww crap’ moment on the plane when I went to find the photo.
As silent, louder or more silent than Stac Zero Halcyon ?
Answering my own question, as I had missed Ray’s Stac Zero comments from above. Real world levels seem to be the same, when considering the external fan noise.
Assuming the core has the same guts as the normal 2018 kickr, it suffers from two very annoying problems:
1) it’ll happily let you Bluetooth pair the trainer with multiple devices, but if you do spindowns won’t work (they’ll time out). The wahoo explanation is that the trainer then gets “confused” as to which device it’s talking to. Which is bizarre, because they write the firmware, they’re talking to the Bluetooth radio, and should easily be able to keep the devices straight. Or if not, to at least be able to detect the problem and tell you about it.
2) the trainer comes with a shoddy power supply brick that shouldn’t be left connected to the wall 24×7. With most power bricks, you can get away without using a surge protector, but I guess not with this one. Either it died on its own, or saw some surge that it couldn’t handle (but somehow every other device in my home could handle). Anyway, $70 for a replacement from wahoo. Or just write off their power bricks as crap and buy a quality replacement from Amazon for half the price (or less).
Hiya: Great review and it’s now #1 on the hit parade for a new trainer. I see the trainer doesn’t have the dual speed/cadence signal. Will a separate cadence sensor (e.g. the Wahoo wireless I have on my bikes) be able to pair with 3rd party apps like Zwift, Trainer Road, etc.? I’m using a simple PC/External monitor setup currently, so the 2 sensor limit doesn’t apply….I think.
Keep’em coming Rain Man…
(BTW — are you still planning on a review of the two new Lezyne Mega computers?)
Yup, you can use seperate sensors, no problem there at all!
And yup, Lezyne is finally handing over units on Tuesday at Interbike that I can start the review on. They didn’t want to give them over due to the whole Strava debacle, but it sounds like they’ve reached an agreement there with Strava and are moving forward.
Was surprised to see you’ve had issues with the companion app with the ATV. I’ve been using it for almost two years and it was a little flaky at first but it’s been solid for a long time. One trick that may help is to use an older iphone for this. I dedicated my iphone 6 to this when i got my 7. Did a reset on it, cleaned off all but podcast app basically so that there is nothing that can cause interruptions. Works great.
That’s an interesting option. I have plenty of older phones sitting around. Good call!
Wahoo Megan here! After looking into the reports of power overshoots our engineers we able to get to the root of the issue. We are still doing some additional testing but will be releasing a firmware update soon.
Impressive response. Thanks for sharing info here as well.
Ray, can your comment on whether the Core can really simulate 16% under realistic conditions? I have a Magnus that claims it can simulate 15% but at my 190lbs and say 80rpm it caps out at maybe 9.5% which I find very frustrating. I’d consider the Core but it it can’t really handle 16% I’d reconsider
Hey DCR,
Thanks for another great review, but I have a question as to the noise. They say silent, but what about the vibrations? I currently have the 2016 Kickr Snap and my downstairs neighbors say that when I’m on it, it sounds like a helicopter is outside their window. Any chance you tested this unit in an upstairs environment and people downstairs being able to comment on how loud the vibrations are?
I have exactly the same question!
Unfortunately I don’t have a good way to test that one at this point. We live on the bottom floor, and while the studio does have two floors, it’s 6-8″ thick concrete built atop crazy steel beams. It’s like a fortress.
Does the STAC-ZERO HALCYON at $799 compare to any of these sub-$900 direct drives, or is just a gimmick?
Thanks for this, Ray!
Do you foresee cadence ever being added with a firmware update? I have the same frustration. Why no cadence?!?!
I’m not sure – but it’s stop of my list to ask tomorrow at Interbike.
Interested in the outcome of this. I would like to use the KICKR Core with iOS and mirror on a large screen. Am I correct in thinking that all this data would need to be transmitted over Bluetooth, therefore my Garmin cadence sensor will not work on this platform with out purchasing an adaptor for my iOS device.
I currently Zwift with my laptop and a ANT+ USB.
Thanks
Hi
Thanks for an in-depth review.
They are a trusted source of information.
In the video you are in something rather than the turbo being on the floor. What is it and why are you using it? Does it have an a impact on absorbing noise / vibration? We live in a semi next door to someone who is highly sound sensitive
Thanks
First off, I appreciate the geek quality of your reviews. And that brings me to my question, admittedly having done no homework, so I may be way off base, in which case, smack me down, BUT it strikes me that weight is only part of the equation when it comes to flywheels–it’s moment of inertia that is the true point of a flywheel. Have you seen the flywheels on an old 2-stroke John Deere, or a steam driven sewer pumping station? In those, the weight is maybe 10feet away from the center of rotation, because that keeps things running smoothly–for a long time. Now if everyone uses the same flywheel geometry and varies only the amount of weight they place at the same distance from the center of rotation, then weight is all that matters. However, it seems unlikely that every flywheel has exactly the same geometry, in which case, it is the moment of inertia that will matter to the user. If Maker 1 located all of their weight 6″ from the center of rotation, and Maker 2 located the same amount of weight 12″ from the axis, you would probably write two very different reviews, because the difference in the moment of inertia (spin-up effort) would be a factor of 4.
That’s why a STAC zero can get away with lighter weights. The rear wheel becomes the flywheel and the rear wheel has a greater radius.
Following…I currently use Zwift via Bluetooth with speed, cadence and heart rate on my MacBook Pro. I am guessing the lack of the new BT protocol will me no factor for me. This is looking like the perfect upgrade from my JetFluid Pro.
Thanks!!
Coming from a Tacx Flow Smart I’m impressed with mine. Only a minor point, but has any one else had half their chevron stickers fly off with the first use? i guess as the fly wheel warms up it also warms up the glue on the stickers.
Hi!
Yesterday I received my Kickr Core and immediately was dissapointed.
It’s not working with my Canyon Ultimate.
The housing of the Kickr is touching the chainstay (incl. chipping the paint – thanks..)
Don’t know if it’s only a problem of this certain bike model or more bikes are affected, but that’s really not cool and should be mentioned.
Which Canyon model do you have? CF SL/ SLX, with discs or rim brakes?
Looks like the same issue exists on the Kickr2 (and later models?),
link to dcrainmaker.com
I have just checked and have the same problem with a Cervelo R2. Swapping the adaptor around to give 135 spacing fixes the issue. Virtually no force was required to splay the dropouts to fit the 135 dimensions, so I hope this will be ok.
I wasn’t very happy with reversing the adaptor to 135 spacing, so have made a 1.5mm thick washer to give just enough clearance. Looking at the design Wahoo could have easily allowed for a better clearance, and once out of warranty I may grind down the offending area to give clearance without using a spacer.
Hi, considering this or an Elite Direto as an upgrade to my Tacx Vortex Smart.
I don’t have much space for storage. It has dimensions on the Wahoo website for the Kickr Core with legs folded down and I can see it mentioned in the review. How easy is it to fold down though – is it a case of unscrewing the legs each time? I’ve combed the interweb for this but can’t find the answer and thought you might be able to help!
I echo the thanks of others on here for your brilliant reviews.
I’m interested in this info as well – in a small apartment and need to store trainer in closet. Looks like the Kickr 2018 legs fold inward, not sure if there is any foldability of the Core? DCR could you do a folding comparison?
I wrote wahoo re the Core foldability and they sent this response: “The tool is included so this means you could remove the feet for storage. This means you’ll be left with just that center support arm with the flywheel and pulley, which means it’ll actually be more compact for storage than the standard KICKR! ”
Not sure if they misunderstood my response or that is in fact the only means of folding the Core?
What they should have said is “It doesn’t fold – the simplified frame design is the main reason it is cheaper than the standard Kickr. The only way to make it smaller for storage is to unscrew the base bars it sits on. This is not a big job, but probably a bit of a pain if you need to do it every time”.
OK thanks. I thought the same, as it needs to be less convenient than the normal Kickr, yet their website has dimensions for it with legs folded and unfolded.
Hi
Wahoo helpfully sent me a picture of the Kickr Core with legs fully folded. Hope helpful for the similarly space challenged to work out if you can store it! I think I can and it’s now the front runner.
Thanks Steve J! – extremely helpful. This may change the equation for me now, as I’d already been set on and close to ordering a Kickr 2018.
Yes I was the same but have now pulled the trigger on a Kickr Core instead. UK stock not due until mid-October, looking forward to it landing!
It’s not actually fair to call it a $899 trainer though, is it?
It doesn’t come with a cassette, without which it’s really just a giant big paperweight, and a $10 tool is needed too. In addition I see it no longer comes with a cadence sensor (which the previous versions came with) so that’s another outlay if one wants to get a cadence reading (and doing any proper training requires cadence awareness).
Seems to me Wahoo are pulling a fast one by advertising at this price point.
At present, the only trainer that includes a cassette is the top line Kickr. Nothing included with Tacx, Elite, CycleOps or upcoming Kinetic R1 trainers. So you have the same “additional” cost on all of them EXCEPT the Kickr.
Point being that the Kickr including one is the exception, not the rule. Therefore, you can just about ignore it in the grand scheme of things. Yup, you gotta install one, and that requires the cassette and tools (or getting a friend or bike shop to do the install).
A parallel is that most mid to high level bike come without pedals (except possibly cheap plastic test ride pedals) and you have to add them to use it. But how many people actually include the price for a good set of road pedals or a pedal wrench in the “budgeting” when they look at bike?
As to cadence, your claim “…it no longer comes with a cadence sensor…” is really untrue since the Core never existed until right now. You are comparing that cadence sensor to the higher level Kickr that still includes a cadence sensor. So I feel that is false to claim that it was removed.
It is very true that the Core does not include cadence despite other trainers in that price range including cadence via an internal measurement of the trainer or a separate sensor. This may not be a problem as it is fairly common for riders to already have a cadence sensor installed.
Either way, we are talking about small percentages of cost involved when compared to the trainer price.
Yeah, I would bet most people buying a trainer in this price bracket are the kind of person that already has one (or several) cadence sensors. Those same people are getting cadence out on the road most likely.
Ray, what is the rocking platform you were using to put trainers on, in the video?
Really great and detailed review and convinced me to order this as my first ever smart trainer.
Wondering if there is a way to have it mimic a GPX file or such like. So, can you download a file from Strava, for example, and upload it to some free software that can control the smart trainer and mimic the route?
Can you do this with the Wahoo software?
Or do you pretty much have to subscribe to something like Zwift or TrainingRoad to get the most out of these smart trainers?
Hi Rich,
Have not tested it myself so how/if it works I cannot say.
Hopfully I don’t break any rules here by posting links?
Check this out:
link to whatsonzwift.com
Hi Marko
Thanks for the reply.
Seems like it might do the job. Although still relies on paying a subscription to Zwift, presumably?
I was wondering if there was anything free out there or maybe the Wahoo app itself allows this. Seems like you can set it to do a very simple ride (fixed power etc.) but nothing to mimic a real-life ride.
Just wondered if anyone had a easy, cheap way of doing it.
Search and find Shane Miller (GP Lama) on YouTube. He has a video on just this topic. You can do it for free by using a Garmin or Wahoo head unit. He did a separate video for each one.
1) Re-Riding a Route Indoors on a Smart Trainer – Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt
2) Re-Riding a Route Indoors on a Smart Trainer – Garmin Edge 520
Hi Chader
Ahh, OK. Thanks. I’ve seen a couple of his videos.
Unfortunately, I use a different head unit to those (Sigma Sport Rox 11). Although that does have Ant+ & Bluetooth connectivity, I don’t think it has the function to control a trainer.
I’ll have a look at the videos though as that might give me an idea. Either that or I write a “simple” app that can do it! 🙂
Looks like I’ll probably have to bite the bullet and subscribe to one of the training portals though.
Thanks for the input.
Actually, searching on Youtube for those videos provided one on Skuga, which apparently lets you re-ride your Strava rides and is free to premium Strava account holders.
Now Strava have changed their premium offering, I’m guessing you’d just need the Training pack.
I might give that a try and see how it goes. If not I can just sign up for a Zwift or TrainerRoad account.
Very cool. I think I heard about Skuga, but didn’t realize it could possibly work too.
Glad it sounds like you have a solution either way. Enjoy 😀
Yeah, I’ll give it a go once the unit turns up and see how I get on….
Hopefully it’ll do what I want…
I wasn’t able to connect my KICKR Core to Skuga and when I contacted their support, it seems Skuga is no longer being developed. They are concentrating on developing Kinomap instead.
Interesting but once you have the Tacx Neo you wouldn’t change it for anything else IMHO
I would certainly hope so since the Neo costs nearly double the price for the Core.
That is really an incorrect comparison since the Neo is closer to the full Kickr 2018 in price and specs.
(But the Kickr is still notably less expensive in many areas, including the US.)
The Kickr Core (discussed in this review) is a closer match to the Tacx Flux (pending Flux 2) in price and specs.
For you guys looking at software to re ride routes but dont want to have that monthly subscription then i can highly recommend PerfPro. An absolutely brilliant piece of software that you purchase once and can pretty much do anything with it
yes Chader. Very true. They are in different leagues. I find DC reviews interesting but everything is always good so at the end of any review you think you are buying the best piece of kit. It would be good to have reviews that actually say this is the best for this or this is the best for that rather than this is a great piece of kit and so are the other 10 i reviewed. Along the lines of money no object you cant go past a Neo or for the budget conscious a bkool or whatever. For us consumers we want to really know what is the best at certain price points rather than read a huge review just to be left still scratching your head. I now have 10 watches, 6 trainers lol,,,nt really but you get my drift
The problem with the idea of “the best” is that what “the best” is will depend, very heavily, upon the end use case.
If you’re living in a small apartment, you might favour something that folds up and packs away into a small space, and which is quiet. If you’re on a budget, maybe you’ll accept something that’s a bit more cumbersome to set up to shave a few dollars off the purchase price. Maybe you’re running Campagnolo, and you need/want something that will take a Campie cassette rather than having to accept a Shimano cassette.
There will always be compromises inherent in the design and construction of a trainer. Weight, cost, portability, compactness, noise, etc. That means that, once you get past certain fundamentals, what’s “best” is going to depend upon where and how the trainer will be used, and that’s getting into matters that Ray can’t really speculate on. I think it’s more honest for Ray to put the information out there so that the end user can decide, based on that, what’s going to work for them, rather than dictating. (not to mention that doing it this way also means he’s not inherently putting a manufacturer offside for no particularly good reason…)
i hear you Stuart and what you say makes full sense but somewhere amongst all reviews there is bias and not wanting to put a manufacturer offside can be misleading to the audience (not that i am saying this is how Ray operates). For my thinking i would rather say dont buy this heap of &^&^% than have 500 people knock on your door saying you said this was a good piece of kit. But i fully agree with what you say and i suppose its up to the consumer at the end of the day to make our own decisions, There are a lot of products but in reality only a few really do the job properly
I guess I’m confused Drew. I actually put together a very specific buyers guide at each price point every year. I’m close to releasing the 2018 variant, but here’s the trainer one for 2017: link to dcrainmaker.com
I’m pretty clear in trainer reviews that suck as to why they suck. For example, read this from this spring: link to dcrainmaker.com
Many years ago I used to give ratings, but I quickly found that ratings weren’t really appropriate for these types of products. As Stuart noted – everyone values features at different price points. For example, if you don’t care about silence and are less interested in the nuances of road feel, you can basically pickup the Tacx Flux S for $749 instead of the CORE for $899. And heck, at present it’ll even be more accurate. Rating those two on a 1-10 or x to y scale of anything would be misleading at best.
I’d rather gives folks clear information about what works and doesn’t work, and let them decide.
Ray, I prefer you approach which is based on good testing procedures and provides information I can use to make my own decision based on factors important to me. For tainers separating by type and price point is about right (for me). Your testing techniques usually surpass those ratings-based reviews. My only quibble with your product tests is that you return the sample to the manufacturer instead of me.
Hi Ray, do you have any date estimation for the release of the 2018 Trainer guide?
Thanks
To be fair, he does do cost comparisons. Have also read some reviews where he calls out big and little companies. In in-depth reviews he reviews one thing and have some others there as comparison. The yearly all in reviews do the comparison on budgets. If he said whatever thing is definitely best (when they all have their little problems and good bits) people would complain.
Not too certain why you want him to make your choice for you, ultimately it is let the buyer beware.
16% Hills !!! you need to come to Yorkshire in the UK for a few rides, 20% are common…. very common…. in fact too common…. man I hate those hills 🙂
Thanks Ray as always for your reviews!
I just the kickr core, and absolutely love it! For me, soud was very important, living in an appartment. Build up is easy, and also I dont have the clearance issue described above by other users. Anyway, keep up the good work!
Brilliant review as always Ray!
Been really wanting to upgrade my Elite Rampa which I got last year and have had a few issues with but struggling! If you had to choose (and putting cost to one side) would you go for a KICKR CORE and CLIMB setup or a Tacx Neo? I can’t decide!! I tend to do a lot of workout sessions using ERG mode but I do love hitting the climbs on Zwift too.
Brilliant detailed review as always Ray!
Quick question. Been really wanting to upgrade my Elite Rampa which I got last year and have had a few issues with but struggling! If you had to choose (and putting cost to one side) would you go for a KICKR CORE and CLIMB setup or a Tacx Neo? I can’t decide!! I tend to do a lot of workout sessions using ERG mode and accuracy is important to me but I do love hitting the climbs on Zwift too. All advice gratefully received!
Now I sit and wait for the 2018 trainer review post and then hopefully the Clever Training VIP sale to make my drivetrain trainer purchase this year…..Leaning towards Kickr Core currently but we’ll see…
Hopefully you are now winning, Todd. Just ordered my CORE at a $180 CT-VIP discount.
How good is it at simulating low-speed climbs, like the Flux 2?
I haven’t had any issues. The thing to keep in mind is that inertia-wise, it’s just the same as the 2017 KICKR, which everyone was happy with.
Does the Kickr Core come with the adapter for thru axle like the Direto or is that sold separately?
The adapter is included.
The Kickr Core and Climb are the best simulation of an outdoor ride I have found. With Zwift Trainer Difficulty set to Max, 14% feels like 14% and absolutely requires that I stand up. In ERG, there is virtually no fluctuation in the power level like there was with my 2015 model Kickr and stability is not a problem. I don’t agree that the Kickr Core is completely silent but it is a vast improvement over the old model. Thanks, DCR for the rationale that if I buy the Kickr Core instead of Kickr 2018, it’s like getting the Climb for $300!
Glad it’s working out – thanks John!
Hi DCR
i’m a new user with KICKR core and my first test was a training with a road recorded on my wahoo elemnt bold.
In this road there is a small 6KM climb at 6,5% but the resistance never change it was the same as a 0% road.
Do i make a mistake with this functionnality?
Thanks by advance for your help
regards
Hmm, any chance it was paired as a power meter instead? Or were there any other phone/tablet/etc apps paired that might have held the connection open for control?
Hi DCR,
You might want to mention that if you run Campy 10 speed you are out of luck as there is no longer a supplier of convertible Shimano/Campy 10 speed cassettes.
I’m going to put 0.2mm polystyrene spacers between all the loose cogs on an Ultegra cassette to get back to the Campy 10 spacing. It won’t be perfect but it’ll be close enough for trainer use. The only thing I’m not sure of is whether I’ll need a spacer behind the whole stack. After trying to find something years ago, the difference today is that an 11 speed freehub has room for it all where the old 8/9/10 did not.
I got my Core the other day and put 6 of the 0.2 spacers into the Ultegra cassette, and left the 1mm spacer behind the cassette as normal, but not the 1.8mm spacer that comes with the Kickr. Everything works well this way, no chatter in all but the smallest cog, and not enough there to worry about, and this is probably because I left the last spacer off because it didn’t fit between the 2 smallest cogs.
Hi everyone,
Heads-up for all the Core owners, Wahoo appear to have released a firmware update (today) that addresses the power overshoot issue.
link to support.wahoofitness.com
All the best
Can anyone confirm if the recent firmware update has fixed the issue with power accuracy during high wattage sprints?
I bought a Flux earlier this year and it started having mechanical issues after ~24 hours of riding. Luckily I’ll be getting a refund on it. Bought the Kickr Core and am impressed by how smooth and quiet it is. No regrets!
Thanks for the review. Ordered a new one from clever training. I’m hoping Wahoo is able to continue to support application and hardware. That lack of support, in my humble opinion opinion, is what killed Computrainer. :-). I hope, for my pocketbook, that Wahoo, is a sustainable platform..,something DCR I think you should start to consider in your evaluations.
Thanks for the support!
We haven’t seen any issues with support to date with Wahoo in terms of them not supporting a product. Even really old products you can still get support on (Note: That’s different than being upset that support doesn’t give you a new product/feature on your 5+ year old product).
Ray, do you ever test trainers on really steep simulated gradients?
Not sure what the max swift grade is ?17% or something, I ride most on BigRing VR which has some Italian passes around 20%, and where I live in the UK we have quite a few roads around 25%+ (steepest near me is 33%!).
Anyway I’m wondering how some of the trainers cope at steep stuff and low speed, can they really replicate the 16% or whatever they state in the specifications when riding at a ‘real life’ slow speed?
If they don’t produce a realistic max resistance at these low speeds or you want to train on 20% plus stuff, does just shifting a couple of gears higher give a more realistic feel. (Sorry if that last bit is a really stupid question, I can never get my head around resistance and gradients on trainers! Just wanting to be able to try replicate some really steep stuff )
I do, but typically not above 20% (I simply have little desire to do such suffering).
Generally speaking once you get beyond the capabilities of a trainer you just don’t feel much else. But it really comes down to the app in terms of how it handles speed.
In my experience though, they can definitely replicate what their specs say – but it does depend a bit on the rider weight too. But that’s an entirely different discussion for another day.
If I set it for 16%, it legit feels like 16%. The one caveat is in Zwift the *default* trainer difficulty setting is 50% – which means that it halves all climbs from a feel standpoint. So a 16% climb becomes 8%, and 8% comes 4%, and so on. This is Zwift-specific.
Thanks for review DCR ! That is the turbo I think about buying, so really appreciate thorough review.
Any idea (or memory from previous years) if Wahoo trainers were/will be available cheaper around black friday?
Historically speaking there’s always been solid deals on Wahoo trainers in November from a variety of sources. I don’t expect that to change this year.
Hi Ray – thanks for the detailed review. Can I just check what your comment about the lack of ant+ speed/cadence protocol actually means? I note in the datasets you link to for your test rides, there does appear to be speed data shown in the analyzer. I’m less interested in cadence, as my power meter has inbuilt cadence, but I do like to track speed/distance if only for some crude year on year comparisons in terms of total training volume. With my existing dumb trainer, I just have a speed sensor on the rear wheel.
So if I got the KICKR Core, would I still be able to record an approximation of distance ridden within a trainerroad workout, or would it just show up as 0km ridden?
Thanks!
It’s specifically missing the cadence channel, not speed/distance.
So you’ll get speed/distance from the trainer in all cases.
Enjoy!
Fab, thanks for the quick reply!
Hi Ray
Is there an know issue with the Edge 1030 as its not displaying speed from the Core?
Thanks
Adrian
Nope, i haven’t heard of any issues there. Should display speed easily when paired as a trainer or power meter.
The only exception I can think of is if you have a speed/cadence combo sensor, when mounted on a KICKR that speed will read zero, which will likely override the KICKR’s speed channel.
Trying to get a CORE, I have the Campag freehub waiting for it, just want for the trainer. Ordered in August from a large UK retailer, the delivery date keeps slipping, today’s email states 21/11/18. Anyone know a quicker supplier?
I’m not sure the Campy freehub will work with it. The folks at CleverTraining weren’t sure either. Wahoo does not say one way or the other. I will have mine tomorrow and I will check to see if the freehub is removable, although I won’t actually do it. I already bought an Ultegra cassette and cut out additional spacers so that it should be Campy spaced.
You should consider too if you are Campy 11 that Shimano 11 is pretty much the same spacing and they generally inter-operate with each other. With 10 speed that was not the case.
Following on from your comments on the price drop of the Tacx Flux and Elite Direto. The Flux is now selling here in the UK for £450 ($580).
It looks as though you are basically waving foldable legs and a silent trainer on the Kickr for ~$300. Is it worth it?
Sorry if this is a daft question, I have an ELMNT which obviously comes with the companion app. I´m looking at buying this trainer but just a bit confused about what apps to use. Can I use/control the KICKR Core through the ELEMNT app or will I need to also download the Wahoo Fitness app?
Thanks
You would use the Wahoo Fitness app to control it (which is free), as the companion app is just for the bike computers.
Alternatively, you can also use any of the 3rd party apps here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Ah ok! Thanks for the quick reply and as always the great review. I replaced my Garmin Edge 800 with the ELEMNT in July and so far I’m loving it, looking forward to getting my hands on this trainer too!!
Hi Ray,
ready to buy the kickr core however it’s a pity your DCR coupon code isn’t accepted on the european CT site.
regards
Frank
Hi Frank-
Indeed, currently a Wahoo restriction. 🙁
Sorry!
I have my kickr core for a week now and I am actually disappointing about the noise. It started with the clicking noise. But then during the workout the noise increases to screaming noise level. From high to low to high low level. The noise is so random and I am either thinking that I am having a defect product. Searching on the internet I have noticed other people also have it they are also not sure if this is normal.. Anyone here have the same experience?
That definitely sounds like a defective unit. Reach out to Wahoo support so they can get it swapped out.
HAving the same issue, spinning up to 20mph and there is a large audible hum/whine, for a totally silent trainer it doesn’t sound normal at all.
That is definitely not the info and feedback I wanted to hear… I am planning on buying Kickr Core during black friday time, but if I keep hearing about issues with them, not sure if that is the best direction to go :/ Especially that the lack of noise is the biggest selling point for me
My Kickr Core also starting making this very weird noise. It turns out the noise came from one of the chevron sticker on the flywheel. As it starts to unglue, the sticker flaps until it flies off. I’ve lost 3 stickers so far.
I returned my Kickr Core to the retailer and received money refund. I also contacted Wahoo support and they said the recorded noise was definitely not normal and they would like to exchange the broken for a new one.
Yeah, I know Shane (GPLAMA) got a few reports of stickers fleeing as well. Duct tape stickers anyone?
I returned mine for noise too – a whine/hum noise (oscillating in time with flywheel rotation) started up every time and I went over 20 mph and I got loud clicky noises when sprinting. Below 20 it worked fine and was smooth and very quiet. Disappointing. Are the full on kickrs like this too or is it just a Core thing?
Neither should be having that kinda noise.
The only thing to note on sprinting noises, is to validate it’s coming from the trainer and not the bottom bracket.
Update: ive sent the video to wahoo who claim they cannot hear anything unusal…. Ive attached a link for any of you to view, Ray i would appreciate some feedback if possible, is this normal?
link to drive.google.com
Hi,
Same wierd noise on my Core, also came from stickers flapping until they fly off, lost 2 pieces so far.., no other unusual noise that I know of.
Yeah, I agree, mine doesn’t sound that loud.
Thanks Ray. It was def the trainer as it’s fine on the road and another trainer I have. Hopefully if they have an issue with the first batch released they can sort it soon. I’ll be waiting and watching (well, listening) before trying another.
Wahoo must be missing out on a load of sales at the moment as everyone is out of stock going into peak new turbo season.
Same experience on my Core :
– whine sound at high speeds from first use (don’t know if it comes from the belt or the flywheel) -> link to youtu.be
– stickers flying off after 2nd use (I removed all)
– clicking sound after 200km (solved by tigthening the bottow pulley bolt)
But still very pleasant to ride. I’m waiting Wahoo to definitly fix the issue before asking replacement. (Some people were sent 3 default units)
same here. My core just arrived. It starts with a clicking noise and transform in a nasty grinding noise. Back in the box. Back to the retailer.
Do you know that you can actually very easily correct it on your own? – my buddy had the same issue – it started after about 30 minutes of rather easy spin. He mailed wahoo the sound and they sent him short instruction how to deal with it. 20 minutes of work and few drops of loctite later it was solved. He got 100Euro in voucher for dealing with the issue. Core did about 10 hours since – silent as DCR showed on his vids.
I have seen 2017 Kickrs on sale for $1000.00, would you recommend the $900.00 Kickr Core over the 2017 Kickr? Looking at your reviews they seem very similar I only worry about availability of replacement parts as they seem to have changed the belt design.
The 2017 KICKR isn’t silent, this is. I wouldn’t worry about replacement parts though, that hasn’t really been an issue historically.
The 2017 has height adjustability (which, you’ll probably never use after initially setting it), the CORE doesn’t.
If you had the choice between a very slightly used 2017 Kickr for $800 or a Kickr Core… what would you suggest?
Planning to buy a kickr core but having uncertainty with Casette choice.
I own a Cannondale Slate with Sram Apex 1 which has a Sram PG 1130 NX 11-42. Now my LBS tells me to biy the same casette, they claim road casettes are not compatible then orhers say they are. Anybody has a definitive answer?
SRAM and Shimano use the same freehub design; you can put either brand of cassette on a freehub from either manufacturer. And the chain spacing is identical. Campagnolo cassettes use a different freehub, and won’t fit.
Ray, I noticed that a lot of retailers (at least in the Netherlands) are postponing delivery. Initially the Kickr Core would be available early October but now it seems to be early November. Could this be due to popular demand or the fact that Wahoo noticed some early users reporting strange noise and they put delivery on-hold until they fix the issue? I cancelled my order for the moment and are waiting for the first reviews of the Tacx Flux 2 and then decide which one it is going to be.
The dates you see listed on sites are for new orders, not existing orders.
There was an initial allotment of units that came in around early September, and then not a ton until I believe last week was the next major shipment.
I think you’ll probably continue to see a random smattering of issues, like most new trainers, but it doesn’t seem to be super widespread.
Current demand/orders right now is about twice the production capacity. I’d caution I don’t expect a Flux 2 near-term for review.
+1
Thank you for the quick reply
Thanks Ray for the usual great review. Following your review and already having an Elment Bolt and being very happy with Wahoo’s service I decided to order the Core on Sep 18th and placed order with your recommended Clever Training UK. As of today the 15th of October I have not received delivery despite CT despatching unit on Sep 18. I emailed several times and called CT to chase up. On the 5th of Oct they offered a replacement or refund. As the replacement would take two weeks I asked them to again chase up delivery of the original unit as I badly needed it. On the 11th I called them again to say as I hadn’t had any further response I would like a refund. They refused, saying they couldn’t refund as their courier DPD hadn’t come back to them. I now find that I have to go through my credit card company, a process which will take two weeks to claim this back before I can purchase elsewhere!
Hi Ray,
if you test the SRM exalt soon, check the repeatability of the measurement after each assembly / disassembly. To verify the impact of a small shift of the reference (ex : +/ – 0.5 mm ..) ideally would be to test vs a SRM crankset. Thank you !
SRM test out very very shortly.
That said, your comment highlights the single biggest issue of the EXAKT – installation. It produces significantly different results each time if you don’t nail installation (which can be finicky).
Hi,
how about minimum speed to get 16% (e.g. compared to the new Flux 2)? I know it’s quite important.
I’ll be grateful for any info regarding that.
Aleksander
Ray my concern with CORE is the legs. Looks like it would be easy to fall forward when doing out of the saddle sprints. Unlike kicks that has the legs out front. Did have you had any issues with tilting forward?
Physically impossible.
The CORE legs do fold open forwards, but there’s no way that with a bike on there they’d fold up, since your weight keeps them open (and honestly, you don’t even need your weight to keep them open, they stay open/in position without).
Thanks for the review! I’m new to this so sorry if it’s a dumb question…
My roadbike has a 10-speed Tiagra drive train. I assume that I should get a 10-speed cassette to install on the Kickr Core? Is the installation the same as an 11-speed cassette, or is there a compatibility issue?
Yes, the installation is the same but you will have to use the (supplied with the trainer for sure and with most 10speed cassettes as well) 1.8mm spacer.
Note that 10 speed Shimano cassettes come with another, thinner washer. You need to put both the 1.8mm, and the supplied-with-the-cassette washer, on the freehub body before the cassette proper to get the spacing right. (When I was doing a ten- to eleven-speed upgrade, the first thing I got was a set of eleven-speed-compatible wheels to replace the old ten-speed only wheels. It took me a while – and a few rounds of pulling off the cassette and putting it back on – to figure that one out.)
Hi, what are the dimensions of the Kickr when open and closed and the Kickr core please?
Have a few basic questions:
1) Can I use a Garmin EDGE 1000 to do the Spindown? There is a “Calibration” choice on it that allows it, but Wahoo support says I should only do Spindown thru their App on Android/Ios device. I like to use the EDGE to record all the data, even when I used TR.
2) I was trying to use the Wahoo App on Android for the Spindown, and it popped up suddenly with a choice of doing a one time “Factory Spindown” which it recommended. I started this, but at “Spindown #2” I was trying to allow ten minutes, and it bailed at 5 minutes in. I did a retry, but long story short, I eventually cancelled out of this. When talking to Wahoo tech later, they said I should never do this “Factory Spindown” unless requested by Wahoo to do so. I unplugged Kickr, turned bluetooth off/on on Android, restarted App. Then did a normal Spindown. Have I damaged anything or thrown calibration off?
3) I have PowerTap P1 pedals on bike and also a cadence sensor. I may want to now permanently keep the P1s on my outdoor bike. At any rate, I know I can disable the P1s in the Garmin…but how do I know which power readings are reported on the Garmin screen when P1s are active with Kickr Core? And can I read both power readings on the Garmin or at least switch between the two power readings somehow?
Jim
I’ve had the Core for about a week now and has anyone else had any issues connecting the Core to the Elemnt via the Elemnt app?? It just takes ages, it reads that the sensor is there but just keeps saying “connecting…..” instead of “connected”, and for no apparent reason boom it connects. My core connects fine to the other Wahoo apps, although occasionally it can take a while, I just tried to connect my core to the Elemnt but without the app and it did it almost immediately. I have an Android mobile so I’m assuming there’s some issue with connectivity and Android? I have noticed that the Core is trying to connect to the app via ANT+ not sure if that’s an issue?
In terms of size when folded out, how does the Core compare to the Kickr 1?
re: Clicking noises
Been reading plenty of issues about the Kickr Core making excessive clicking noises. No idea if the issue is widespread (I suspect not), or just that I’ve been hearing a lot about it due to specifically paying attention to it.
The one I received either did it from the beginning, or at least after one hour of use. I didn’t notice it until I got off an initial ride, but it’s clicking on every rotation and gets pretty loud at speed.
Some various discussion about the issue:
link to old.reddit.com
link to cyclechat.net
Interesting, search youtube for ‘Kickr’ and sort by latest uploads and you’ll see that the same issue is being reported about all of the Kickr Core, Kickr, and the Kickr Snap.
I’m waiting on a replacement from Wahoo. Hopefully they’ve got it sorted properly.
I saw this post today on the UK TT Facebook Group dated 30.10.18 – sounds like progress is being made to sort this out and a fault with the new belt assembly acknowledged. This fits with the experience I had before returning – out of balance flywheel noise/feeling and clicky/clunky noises.
“Clunking noise out of the box, due to common fault. The small pulley wheel is attached using a “woodruff key assembly”. The small pulley wheel rotates at high RPM, so any movement/play here is immediately noticeable. Wahoo confirmed that the “woodruff key assembly” was originally out of spec. Their UK/EU team have been working hard to apply a fix to their current warehouse stock. They offered me one of these units as a replacement, but the flywheel on my (current) unit also seems out of balance and it’s not clear whether this is caused by the same problem. I found one other customer who has so far been sent 3 replacements. He said that only the 4th unit had the “woodruff key fix” applied but the flywheel still seems out of balance. I’m therefore not sure whether to accept Wahoo’s offer of a replacement, or send it back to Sigmasport for a refund.”
……..
That sucks. I’ve just had my 2017 model replaced under warranty and I’d been hoping they may send me the 2018 version. Perhaps glad they didn’t now!
………
Some other people have experienced quickly worn out bearings, possibly caused by very high belt tension. All of the issues seem to stem from the new (silent) micro V belt design. I’m still hoping that wahoo can solve all the issues.
Hi Ray,
thanks for the review!
In the Power Accuracy Analysis you did the 30/30 test on TrainerRoad to show the reaction time, etc.. What I don’t get here is, that some of your intervals were smoother because you ‘shifted’ for those…I thought that’s the point of erg mode, that you don’t have to shift for e.g. intervals…!?
Or am I thinking wrong here?
Best,
Marcus
Essentially different trainers have different speed to power floors. So in some cases by shifting you can increase speeds which causes more responsiveness in the trainer.
For example, some trainers can only provide a given wattage level with increased speeds. Like for my Tacx Flux S review you’ll see shortly, it was unable to provide 400w of resistance when I was in the smallest ring in the front. But once I shifted to the larger ring (and thus increased speeds), it was easily able to provide 400+ watts of resistance.
Does the Core come with a cadence sensor for the crankarm?
no it doesn’t
Hi Ray,
I want to change my Direto with something less louder while zwifting and more capable for low rpm climb, so I have to say thanks for your review…but…..
I can’t understand how is it possible that apart the problem with the power you saw, you didn’t had the issue with clicking noises and belt tensioning causing the premature breaking of the bearing.
I mean or you really “jump” in and out in some hours or if you have really ridden it for some days, how is possible you didn’t notice nothing?
I can’t even think of a your fault, so they have delivered to you a “special” version? maybe it will better if you change the address of your shipment so they don’t know who are and send a “normal” version?
I don’t know but speak for your credibility and our interest with out any kind of polemics.
Andrea
They’re likely shipping a couple thousand units a week right now. If everyone was having the problem, then all you’d see is problems – thousands of upset people since Sept 12th. The reality is, they aren’t. Some unknown people are having problems – and those folks should contact Wahoo to get the issue either solved or replaced. It’s honestly as simple as that.
Maybe I’m not understanding – but do you have a KICKR CORE at this point and having issues, or just looking at others? Keep in mind that people that don’t have issues generally doing go back to product review posts and forums and say “I don’t have issues”. Instead, that’s what people that do have issues do.
I rode the unit from late July till early September when this review was published. The Girl also rode it as well. And Shane Miller (GPLama rode his too that long).
Finally, I’ve also got another unit from normal retail as well sitting here. I haven’t had a chance to crack it open (just came yesterday), but it’s on my to-do list. Still, the simple numbers of the situation indicate it’s unlikely to have issues.
Hey Andrea,
I’m one of the commenters who has mentioned the clicking issue here previously. As DCR said, people who are happy generally don’t get involved in discussions about their devices. So although we hear a lot about the issue once we’re aware of it, it’s not clear how many units are truly at fault and how many are out there without issue.
Wahoo support immediately acknowledge the issue and has recently sent a tested trainer in replacement. I can’t fault their support except for being slightly slower than I would have wished.
The issue does seem like a potentially big one (out of spec internals), but I’ve heard a totally unverified claim that Wahoo is applying a fix to all their inventory. Seems like it should be a fixed issue going forward, and if not support will take care of you.
Whoops, forgot to mention what I thought was an interesting note as well, and seems there is no edit button.
I imagine in some circumstances they do (I really wouldn’t be surprised to hear that reviewer units get extra QC/QA), but in general I don’t believe reviewers get special units at all.
I can’t recall if it was a DCR or GPLama video, but at least once I’ve seen that they have received a fault unit and, much like us, have to wait a week or so for a replacement until actually being able to review it.
Hi, I recently bought the Kickr Core.
Experiencing a very squeaky belt. I reported to the Wahoo customer service and am awaiting response.
However, I was wondering if anyone else had a lot of a ‘zooming’/electrical noise seemingly coming from the flywheel..? Not a constant stream, but rather intermittent.
Hi, I’ve noticed this as well, almost like a hum as the device spins down. I’ve had my core now for 5 weeks and it has always clicked, but the last 2 rides the clicking is very audible and almost a grinding noise as the unit has got warmer . I’ll be contacting Wahoo support tomorrow.
Xavier,
I have the same problem, the belt is whining just like the older KICKR. Contacted Wahoo, they replied very quickly and asked me to provide a video of the sound. They are replacing my unit completely and it has already shipped. They told me I could continue using the current unit while waiting for the new one.
Also have a electrical hum intermittent from the flywheel, but really not the biggest issue.
They are prompt on dealing with the issue, however it feels to me they made the mistake of changing the factory or something like that and the quality has gone south. Sad for a product that had the best track record of reliability in the last years.
I’m thinking about buying the Kickr Core and share it with my girlfriend. Does anyone know how much work it is to change bikes on a direct drive trainer like the Core (we both have the same cassette on our bikes)? Is it feasible or would I have to adjust the shifting mechanism every time?
Thanks for your help!
To take a bike off is 15-30 seconds, and to put it on is about the same. So pretty quick and easy.
No need to adjust shifting in most cases, but if for some reason each bike is slightly different you may need to tune one to match the other.
I don’t really understand the cadence-sensor topic??? Do i need the extra sensor for full function of the Core? Can i train e.g. in ERG-mode or can i use my existing cadence data from my powermeter???
The trainer itself does not report cadance. You must use another source to record cadance. It works fine in ERG mode sans cadance.
But how can the Core adjust the resitence without cadence to keep the power contant?
I don’t know, but it does. I’ve used mine with no cadence attached and it is perfectly fine.
The Core (and all other smart control trainers) don’t need your pedaling cadence to operate ERG mode properly.
They do use rpm, but it’s based on the trainer itself, not you. The ERG mode and its power control is a function of it’s own speed and resistance level control.
They measure rpm at the flywheel and resistance unit, not the input pulley (connected to the cassette). That way the have reliable info direct to the components they need to use in the power calculation.
that makes sense. Also, a Kickr includes a crank arm cadence sensor so you can record cadence.
Just a comment on Kickr reliability. I had a Neo that arrived with a bad bearing. Returned it to the seller and bought a full blown Kickr 18. It is flawless.
The point is that all products can have problems. The key is whether the dealer/manufacturer is responsive. In this instance Clever Training was easy to work with. Moreover, once I had to send a earlier generation Kickr back to Wahoo and they were responsive as well. They cross shipped the replacement Kickr and charged my credit card. Once they received the defective one they reversed the charge which worked well for me.
Is easy to swap between bikes using different drive trains with this trainer? My Tri bike is 11 speed and Road bike is 10 speed. Seems I only need to swap the cassette out when I switch bikes..
I have a 2016 wahoo snap. Tried zwift with vector and snap. Had varying results and some inconsistencies. Thinking of upgrading to Core or Kickr. Do you think I can make things work with Vector 3 and Snap or need to upgrade. Any recommendation would be appreciated.
It’s hard to say. I’ve found many of the $599 trainers (including the SNAP) to be a bit finicky on power accuracy. Sort of an is what it is type of thing.
I’d honestly doubt power accuracy issues are Vector-specific in this case, unless you’re seeing dropouts.
I’d say any trainer power accuracy issues would evaporate if you went to the CORE or KICKR.
Thanks. If I use Vector 3 for as my power source in zwift and snap as smart trainer, do you think I will get the consistency I would get with Kicked?
I meant Kickr not Kicked :)… Damn Spell check!
I think I’m losing faith in these types of comments. I’ve had two Kickrs and one Core, one of the Kickrs and the Core are both 35w lower than my stages power meter, the other Kickr was in the ballpark with regards to accuracy.
I have two other power meters so I’m pretty sure it’s the Wahoo products that are at fault here, I just don’t understand how reviewers manage to get such a small discrepancy between power sources?!
It’s not to say that the results from the Wahoo products are inconsistent in themselves (and yes the firmware and spindowns have all been performed as recommended) just against other sources. I contacted Wahoo and they recommended reducing the belt tension so if that’s true it seems like mis-calibration is still the same with direct drive trainers just that they originate from the manufacturer or rather than the user.
Maybe it’s time to try a Tacx Neo instead.
James
If you’ve done a full calibration/etc on the KICKR and your power meters, and whatever else Wahoo is recommending, and it’s not accurate – then I’d push back on Wahoo.
While there are certainly some (likely small) number of folks getting wonky issues on the CORE, I don’t think accuracy has actually been one of them. It’s either been sound or stickers. Accuracy sounds more like perhaps just a unit that got damaged in transit.
That said, do ensure you’re comparing Apples to Apples. In the case of Stages to a KICKR, the KICKR shoudl be about 1-4% less, depending on drivetrain cleanliness. If that 35w is at say, 800w, then I think that’s the wrong tree to bark up, as making to identical is very tough at those wattages. Whereas, if it’s at 200w, then that’s a more legit issue.
Next, if you’re talking a single-sided Stages, then that really does complicate things significantly. If you have three KICKR’s, then definitely you know the nuances there. It’s frankly hard to meaningfully compare power numbers with left-only units. There’s simply too many variables that you can get caught up in to make any definitive statements.
Finally – note that the original commentor here was *NOT* talking about a CORE, bur rather the SNAP, which is two years older and with a *lower* accuracy spec than the CORE (or the KICKR). My point again being I don’t think I’ve seen any accuracy-specific issues on the CORE (aside from the sprint related items already covered in this review).
Anyone else having issue updating to Kickr core firmware 1.06? Sprint fix.
Mine isn’t loading on my replacement Kickr. Don’t even want to think about contacting support after a month hassle of returning based on ticking bearing daily.
What about the work without power cord? is there any table osf power/speed?
Thanks!
Hi,
I’ve bought the Kickr Core just 10 days ago and really enjoyed it, working soundless and flawlessly on Zwift, both in ERG mode or regular.
Unfortunately, today, as I started my workout on Zwift, I got a message that it lost ERG mode, and then, no more power or speed reading. Same on the Wahoo App, no more speed or power reading.
Anyone had this issue? I followed all the steps to resolve it on Wahoo support website to no avail.
Just sent them a message, hoping to get a solution!
Thank you all!
Marko
Same problem.
Power stopped while riding and didnt came back.
Still hasnt come back after 2 more rides.
Sorry to hear you got the same problem.
I’m returning mine, I don’t really want to be a beta-tester for 799euros.
It’s a pity, it was great!
Right now I’m contemplating getting the Tacx Neo 1, its price is beginning to drop since the version 2 is coming, and at least, with the Neo 1, it has already been thoroughly tested!
Excellent review thankyou!
I have one quick question which I wouldn’t trust anyone else to answer. If I use an existing 2017 Kickr and plan on investing on the Kickr Core for my partner to use in the same room – do you foresee any issues when trying to use at the same time on Zwift using separate hardware? ie one connected to Apple TV and the other using iPad. I personally don’t think there should be any connection issues as both should be standalone, but just seeking your input. Thanks
Hi,
If I want to operate the Kickr Core with Macbook/iPad/iPhone via Bluetooth I need a total a 4 connections (Trainer control “to” + speed/power “from” + cadence + heart-rate). Did anybody face any issue in using so many BT links?
It is not clear to me whether Mac/iPad/iPhone has the same limitation of Apple TV that DCR in his review was mentioning.
@DCR: brilliant job, as usual!
Thanks & Regards
I use my iPhone with the Kickr Core through BT, for controlling it and get back speed and power. I also have a BT heart rate monitor and cadence sensor connected to the phone. Not had any problems with it. Just have to turn the phone BT off and on to get them all to connect.
I imagine it eats more power from the phone but I’ve never used it long enough to completely drain it and not an issue for me to just plug the phone in.
I don’t have an iPad or Mac, just the iPhone, so can’t comment on those.
No limitation on anything but Apple TV. I use Mac, iPad, iPhone, PC, etc.. No problems.
Brilliant! Thanks.
I couldn’t resist the 20% off deal and bought this yesterday from Clever Training.
Any idea when these will be shipping?
I believe when you ordered it would have said a specific timeframe. Earlier in the day it was set for ‘Early November’ (which in talking to CT numerous times over the last 24 hours is still accurate). Whereas later in the day it was later November (the site updated based on expected inbound inventory).
CT is waiting their next shipment any day now. Once they have the tracking numbers from Wahoo inhand, alongside the exact quantities receiving, they’ll be more specific for new orders coming in. Said differently, if Wahoo is able to send them more units earlier, those later November dates will slide earlier.
For the quantities for the sale, CT forecast these back this summer actually and had orders placed then. Just to put in perspective how big the CORE backorder is in general.
Thanks for the update. Yeah I ordered in the early November window…fingers crossed on shipping. Looking forward to ditching the dumb trainer for good.
I ordered 11/8. Tomorrow becomes mid-November…
Excited to train in the winter months with my first smart trainer.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for a great review,
I am trying to decide between the direto and the kickr core. They can be found for $849, and $899 , which is essentially the same price. Assuming the extra $50 is not a big deal, which one would you recommend?
Also, you mentioned the kickr core being more responsive during power changes and also during climbs on zwift. Would you choose the kicker core over the direto based in that?
Thanks a lot,
Manuel
I’d personally go CORE between the two. The thing is the CORE simply has a bigger flywheel (because it’s basically a silent version of a 2017 KICKR), and also has better road-like feel. Not to mention, it’s quiet.
Thanks a lot
So if I have a Garmin Vector 1 (ANT+ only), am I able to connect the cadence from that to the Core, which can then go over BT to my device (eg. iPad)? Or do I have to have an ANT+ receiver on whatever device I am using? Thanks.
No, there’s no re-broadcasting unfortunately of cadence from any Wahoo devices. You’d need something like a NPE CABLE to do the trick.
Just finished first ride. My impression:
PROS
– Great upgrade from Tacx Vortex. Power of the unit is incredible, no need to adjust speed to get the right resistance at steep Zwift hills.
– Absolutely silent even at very high speeds.
CONS
– Center of the bike gravity is not in the center of legs. I am heavy and tall with the biggest bike frame available, CORE tends to rock to the right side during stand up efforts.
– One of the flywheel stickers flew off.
– When legs fold, it bends and squeezes the plastic flywheel cover, which can cause some troubles longterm.
– Even if folded it takes quite some storage space (compared to Kickr 2018)
APPLE TV CADENCE TRANSMISSION IDEA
I see I can pair CORE with my ant+ powermeter so it uses and rebroadcasts the powermeter power via bluetooth. What if it could read and rebroadcast the ant+ cadence from the cadence sensor as well? Apple TV limitation problem solved?
Hi guys!
Quick question. I use the core with Trainerroad on my iphone. If I buy a wahoo heart rate monitor, will the heart rate data show up during my rides via blue tooth? Or can it only pick up from 1 device??
Was also thinking of buying the cadence sensor as well if it looks like wahoo won’t do an upgrade to include cadence. Kind of annoying seeing the cadence blank on trainerroad. Again, can you use multiple bluetooth devices simultaneously to trainerroad to an iphone? Hope the question makes sense. Didn’t want to buy them if it won’t work. I’m so not techy.
Thanks.
Marty
Yes, TrainerRoad can connect to the Wahoo HR strap via bLE. No limitation there.
You can use multiple devices to an iPhone, but generally speaking you can’t have multiple devices connecting to a single Bluetooth Smart sensor. Meaning, you couldn’t have two iPhone’s concurrently connecting to a Wahoo HR strap.
Hi all,
It would be nice if wahoo, that was reading our discussion here some weeks ago, could give us a better picture of the noise problem on the units. Some statistic numbers on this particular issue or just a word like : guys we understood the problem and we are fixing it. Starting frim this weeks our products will be fixed.
They did it with the spike issue of the first firmware. Megan are you there?
Why not manage hardware issue in the same way?
I would love a company that admit a problem on a new unit and explain the efform to fix it to the customers.
This unit is so much interesting that its name ahould not be ruined by initial issues.
Think about the first gen of flux…
Thanks Ray!
Always a reference for anything where I can spend my well earn money
Hi
Thanks for the comprehensive review, i’m thinking of buying a Kickr Core. I’ll be using it in the UK winter in a garage where the temperature can range from -5 °C to +12°C in a 24 hour period. Will this cause significant power accuracy issues with the Core? The Core is £699 but I could get a Tacx Neo for £879, would the Neo provide more accurate results in these conditions?
Thanks
The actual temperature isn’t really an issue, rather, it’s consistency from ride to ride. I’d just simply aim to do a calibration/roll-down about 10 minutes into the ride, if the temp between the current ride and the previous ride is significant.
Alternatively, I believe space heaters have made it to the UK. 🙂
Really a great review! I’ve been trying to understand the difference between the Kickr and the Kickr Core and you were the only reviewer (including my LBS!) who could properly explain it. I was stuck on the importance of max wattage (yea, I wish I could hit 1800W!!) and max incline (I’m puking above 16%). So the Kickr Core is completely fine for me, and I save $300! Thanks!!!
Thanks, glad it helped!
Yah Wayne 2004 Pan-Mass Challenge. Represent!
Thanks for the review!
I’m waiting for a deal on next black friday on any Wahoo smart trainer, in a hipotetic deal of a new Kickr 2017 at the same price of the Kickr Core, which one would you go for?
Thanks again!
Fran
It depends. The KICKR 2017 isn’t silent, whereas the CORE is. Both have almost identical flywheel aspects. It seems like some CORE shipments have gone through some new manufacturer growing pains, but that seems to only impact a small percentage of people.
Compatibility/etc wise it’s all the same, though the 2017 KICKR does allow you to go up/down and it has a handle.
For anyone interested here is Clever’s shipping update as of yesterday. Looks like my early November window is now late November:
Dear Clever Training Customer
Thank you for your recent order for the Wahoo KICKR CORE. Due to overwhelming popularity for this item, during our VIP promotion, this item has been slightly delayed.
We will be receiving weekly shipments from the manufacturer and fulfilling majority of the existing orders before the end of November. Orders that were placed on or after November 13th are scheduled to be fulfilled the very beginning of December.
Regrettably, we are unable to guarantee a fulfillment date based on your specific order date or place in the queue. We will, however, keep you up to date with any changes through our weekly Wednesday email until your order is processed, and tracking provided to you directly.
Thank you for your continued patience. We look forward to fulfilling your order as soon as possible!
If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact the Customer Service Team at 1-800-577-8538 Monday through Friday 10 AM to 6 PM Eastern Time, or you can simply email us at sales@clevertraining.com.
I was one of those supposedly small group of early Core adopters who have had problems. I raised a call with Wahoo support (who have been excellent) and today they have shipped a replacement, all within 10 days of opening the call. I think a lot of new units off the production line may actually being sent out as warranty replacements, hence the shortage for first time buyers.
Hard to say, but as of mid-September, they were producing units half as many units each week as they were taking orders for. Meaning, for every 100 units made, 200 were sold.
While they’re bringing additional manufacturing facilities online for the CORE specifically, it’s a 90-day startup process for that.
Thank you so much Ray/DC Rainmaker for all of your great work that you have been sharing with us for all those years. Here in Canada, when a friend is looking to purchase a bicycle related item, we all ask the same question: Have you looked at the DC Rainmaker site to see what he has to say about such and such an item.
Now for my question: Based on your Wahoo analysis, I am now convinced about the Kickr Core model. But before I press the Buy button, can you please reassure me/other readers re Cadence. I have a left crank arm Power Stages on my bike. I understand that my Garmin Edge 810 will continue to pick up and display the cadence (very important when I wish to measure my wife and my own MAP (Maximum Aerobic Power), but do I read right that I will not see it on my PC/tablet/TV screen when hooked up to Kinomap/Zwift or other such apps?
Thanks.
Actually, that’s a tough tidbit.
See, when Garmin’s pair to either the CORE or Stages, it’s doing so as a power meter. The power meter spec allows you to concurrently broadcast cadence with it. So if you were to connect to the KICKR CORE, it’ll essentially broadcast a null cadence with it. Either way, no Garmin device can *concurrently* connect to two power sensors at the same time.
So you’re stuck with the pickle of choosing one or the other.
But, if you just leave your Edge 810 connected to Stages it’ll get cadence, and then connect whatever app your using to the CORE, and it’ll get power. Some apps, such as Zwift do allow you to seperately pull the cadence from a different device. In fact, that’s what I often do myself with the CORE. I’ll tell Zwift to connect to the CORE for power and trainer control, and then tell it to connect to my Stages power meter for cadence. works great!
Had the Kickr core for about 2 weeks now and it is consistently reading about 30-35watts too low. This is compared to my boyfriends garmin vector pedals but also the feel compared to the tacx vortex we upgraded from and also the watt-bikes in the gym.
Is there anything I can do about this? For me, as a not brilliant cyclist, 35watts is a big difference and basically means that going on Zwift would be totally pointless for me.
Wahoo have been useless, essentially saying it’s the difference between a power device measuring from the pedals and measuring from the machine itself. I do not buy this, firstly due to reviews like this which clearly don’t have this problem, but secondly because why would people spend £700 on a device where the power is essentially arbitary!
That’s a tricky one. Any chance you have two files from the same ride you can overlay together? And I presume you’ve done a zero offset/calibrate on the Vector as well as the Core (spindown)?
Generally speaking, accuracy issues are super rare with the CORE (I think I’ve only seen one other). So just trying to see what else could be up.
Wahoo is correct about some difference there, but 35w it shouldn’t be (unless you’re talking like 1,000w). But assuming something like 200w, I’d expect Vector 3 to be about 5-8w higher, depending on things like how clean your drivetrain is and such.
Just to add to this I am having a very similar experience with the Core reading significantly lower (20-50w) than my Vector 3s pedal. I’ve been calibrating pedals and trainer before each ride and still encountering a discrepancy.
What’s interesting is that I did a ride yesterday and what was apparent was the difference in reading is more significant in low resistance high cadence situations. But in high resistance, low cadence, such as a simulated climb of over 12%, the difference is less. In fact, when the gradient goes close to or over the Core’s stated max gradient (16%) the Core starts to read higher than the Vectors. (This might be because the belt on the Core is starting to slip at this level, but I don’t know enough about the mechanics to say if that is the case.)
I’ve also got a vague feeling that in the low resistance, high cadence situations the Vectors might be over-reading. But that’s a really subjective observation.
Anyway, it’s frustrating and although there are work arounds such as using the pedal power output in the trainer software these aren’t ideal. (Also, as far as I can see Sufferfest doesn’t have that capability)
To also comment I am having the exact same experience. The Core was reading 40W less than the Stages power meter on my bike. When I did the factory spin down on the Core as recommended it still read around 20W less. The discrepancy does become less when riding at higher wattage. I have a powertap meter also and generally the powertap and stages meters read similar wattage. It seems that the Core reading is definitely less than expected.
20w difference on what wattage?
As I noted to Annie, drivetrain efficencies are very real, and depending on how clean things are, there’s an aspect there.
You have to slightly take the differences between a PowerTap hub with a bit of a grain of salt. It’s well known in industry circles that they’ve always ‘bumped up’ slightly their wattages by a percent or so – mostly so years ago when people were testing against the SRM units, that they’d match.
Finally, when comparing against a left-only Stages, that introduces yet one more variability into the mix.
I’m also seeing 30-50+w too low from a core even on lower wattages like 200w. My stages L read 266w avg over 2minutes with the core in erg at 230w (and my left leg is much weaker than my right) Both calibrated, every possible calibration and adjustment were done. I also know my power zones and ability and have used many different trainers and power meters. I can tell when something isn’t right. I tried to do a ride at 250w on the core. I can pedal 250w for 2 hours with an aerobic decoupling of 0. 250w on this trainer and I was in z3 HR on the way to z4.
I’m going to guess Wahoo has a bigger issue with this trainer they may not know about. With the rise of Zwift I’d guess a lot of buyers have never had a power meter or smart trainer before and just assume one of these low reading trainers is correct.
I have also used a core I believe to be correct wattage, I didn’t test it but it seemed right. So this is probably some type of manufacturing issue. The number of components in the Kickr is pretty low, I’m having a hard time thinking about what could cause a mis reported wattage.
After, belt adjustments, and some more tinkering. A 3rd advanced spindown. I think I got the wattage correct.
Thanks for the in-depth review. I wasn’t even done reading, when I already had the Core in my shopping cart. I was also able to save a good chunk of cash thanks to the code on your newsletter. the only down side? now I have to find a home for my old snap.
Thanks for the support! And yup, I’d find a way to get rid of the SNAP before more people realize there’s gonna be more trainers on eBay soon. 🙂
Does CABLE resolve the heart rate sensor cadence pairing to the appletv ?
Hi, I seem to understand that for Campy user they say to use a Shimano cassette, but what about 12 speed? Is there a way to fit a 12s Campagnolo cassette on the Kickr Core? Or is there an other recommendation?
Thanks
You might want to touch on this issue, seems to be affecting a lot of folks and just happened for me this evening
link to reddit.com
Waiting on hopefully a replacement from Wahoo support.
Pretty disappointing for 800 euro piece of kit but wahoo seem to be responding well so far in that they are offering no quibble replacements.
Hopefully I get the same ?
My Kickr Core finally shipped from Clever. Should arrive 11/24.
Put the trainer together last night. I had issues upgrading the firmware until I disconnected all other Bluetooth devices form my iPhone. After that, firmware upgraded properly.
I do not have a bike mounted at this point, but I started spinning the flywheel to hear how silent it was. To my surprise there is a rubbing/scraping noise coming from the flywheel. I don’t seem to have any loose stickers like others have mentioned.
I have submitted my concern to Wahoo. Has anyone else experienced this?
See my post from November 20th … Search for Paul Griffin ..you likely need to open a support ticket and look for replacement. Wahoo do offer a 100 euro credit if you want to attempt a self repair and they provide instructions to fix it but for an 800 euro precision device that wasn’t acceptable for me. A side bonus was finding a great youtube video on how to carry out the fix however i would only do that if the warranty was expired.
Thanks Paul. I posted below (post #316) — I guess I should have read past the first 100 posts to see my problem! I’m sure I have the same issue, I just contacted Wahoo support so we’ll see. Do you have a link to the youtube video that you mentioned? Thanks.
Just wanted to provide an update. I opened a ticket with Wahoo, they asked for a little more info and a video.
As I prepared to make a video I noticed it was the flywheel rubbing against the plastic cover that was creating the noise I heard. I pulled the cover back and the noise went away.
Wahoo then wanted me to verify that the flywheel was spinning true and I verified that it was. So my ticket with them is closed for now.
I have the exact same problem. There is a portion of the belt (between the 2 stickers with numbers on the belt) that on the side shows clearly signs of being rubbing in the plastic cover.
Also on the plastic cover there is a zone that shows where the belt as been rubbing, and there’s a lot of “black dirt”, probably coming from the belt.
Hello, there,
I wanted to use the discount code for the Kickr Core at Clevertraining EU yesterday. Unfortunately an error message appears here. Unfortunately, I have not received any feedback on my e-mail request. Did it work for you with the code? What are your experiences with the EU version of Clevertraining?
Hello, there,
I wanted to use the discount code for the Kickr Core at Clevertraining EU yesterday. Unfortunately an error message appears here. Unfortunately, I have not received any feedback on my e-mail request. Did it work for you with the code? What are your experiences with the EU version of Clevertraining?
Unfortunately Wahoo is currently blocking CT EU/UK from using the coupon code on their products. 🙁
I recently got the kickr core and love it except didnt realize it doesnt have an internal cadence sensor (should have read this review more carefully). I have a watteam powerbeat on my bike but would rather use the kickr core to measure power. Any way that I can get the cadence from the powerbeat to show up on zwift or do I need to buy a different cadence sensor? I am using zwift with apple TV. Thanks so much for all of your information and happy thanksgiving!
Looks like my “early November” order has now turned into “early December”…..
Dear Clever Training Customer
Thank you for your recent order for the Wahoo KICKR CORE. We are receiving regular shipments and processing orders as quickly as possible. Our next shipment is scheduled to arrive the end of next week with the following shipment right behind it, the first week of December. Based on incoming shipment details, all existing orders will be fulfilled by early December.
Regrettably, we are unable to guarantee a fulfillment date based on your specific order date or place in the queue. We will, however, keep you up to date with any changes through our weekly Wednesday email until your order is processed, and tracking provided to you directly.
Thank you for your continued patience. We look forward to fulfilling your order as soon as possible!
If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact the Customer Service Team at 1-800-577-8538 Monday through Friday 10 AM to 6 PM Eastern Time, or you can simply email us at sales@clevertraining.com.
Hi DC
Would you opt for the 2017 Kickr or the new Kickr Core for the same price??
Scratch that, read properly above comments
Hey, odd question for you. To use this trainer, do you HAVE to have it hooked up to electronics? I.e. can you simply hook your bike up to it and get a workout in without having to log onto a computer, get an app running, etc.? Sometimes I just want to spin the legs out and not hassle with technology… Thank you…
Sorta. You can just leave it in non-app connected mode, in which case it just acts like a 0% grade (as long as its plugged in).
Any recommendations or specs to look for in a sub $1500 road bike that will easily and reliably integrate with the Kickr Core but that can still be used for occasional outside riding without a ton of adjustment needed each time? I’m mostly all thumbs when it comes to bicycle repair/maintenance and want something that is as close to plug n play as possible.
I own the Kickr Core and have it set up with a used hybrid, but needed to take it to a bike shop to make it work, and the setup is not great either – it’s louder than I expected and the chain rubs on the highest gears, which did not happen when riding the bike outside. I’m not sure if it’s a problem with the bike, the Core, the setup, or a little of each.
Awesome review as always, thanks! I just received my KICKR Core last week and set it up with both Trainerroad (iOS) and Zwift (Apple TV). I’m seeing a pretty consistent 30-40 watt difference between the Core and my Quarq Dzero crank PM. While I can certainly “powermatch” in software with both apps and slave the Core power to the Quarq power, this is annoying on a $900 trainer and also not anywhere close to the accuracy that both DCRainmaker and Shane have measured. Plus it requires an extra Bluetooth channel that I don’t have on the Apple TV if I also want bluetooth heart rate. I’ve done the Spindown (after warming up the Core) and also calibrated (zeroed) the Quarq and still consistently see a 30-40 watt difference. Any ideas?
I also got a kickr core recently and it is consistently reading 20 watts lower than my p1 pedals even at low powers, 100 watts. I have tried normal and advanced spindowns, my p1 are calibrated and I cleaned my drivetrain which is ultegra with an 105 cassette on the kickr.
I also checked my p1s against my old kinetic inRide and they are in much better agreement.
Wahoo was quick to reply saying that this is normal and should be blamed on the drivetrain + errors on the power meters, but that would mean I am getting 10% to 20 % off which would be the worst case scenario for accuracy, it is just not what I was expecting considering the price and reviews from Ray and Shane Miller
you can look at the graphs here:
p1 vs kickr
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
p1 vs kinetic inRide
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Mine is reading way low too. Unboxed and did first ride yesterday (thanks for the 20% discount). Just by perceived exertion it felt at least 20 watts low on the first ride. Then today I compared to my Stages and sure enough at any given time during the ride it was reading 20ish watts lower, with some spikes up to 50 lower (this was mostly in the 190-275w range, no sprints). Final avg power was 24 watts lower. My stages is extremely close to my Powertaps before that (which I also found to be quite accurate), so I have a good feel for power/PE and this is the first power meter I’ve used that reads way low. BTW I did the spindown as instructed and drivetrain is clean.
I guess it’s a feature and not a bug if you want to handicap yourself at Zwift…
Just an update on this, Wahoo customer support is really good, they replaced my unit and the new one is working great so far, although I have done only 3 rides, the power numbers are pretty good so far, really good agreement with my p1 pedals. You can check out my last workout.
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
The unit itself is great, so I will keep it and work with wahoo if there are more issues. From my readings it seems that making these smart trainers is tricky and most are going to have issues, so having good customer support seems to be as important as the trainer itself.
Wow reading this all it sounds like a nightmare !!! I have the trainer back ordered.
Ray any word from wahoo?
Seems there are lots of issues with this generation of Wahoo trainers. Mine worked well for 10 days then failed to register speed.
Quick search flagged up other problems. Concerned about the replacement’s reliability.
Since no cadence what if you have a Stages arm. ?
Yes, you can pull that in no problem.
Just got a new Kickr core. Flywheel extremely stiff, very reluctant to move. Moved it through about 180 degrees and it sounded like something fell off internally! Freewheel now rotates without grinding noise.
Very reluctant to use it. just spoke to the UK retailer and they’ve asked me to file a support ticket with Wahoo.
Will let you know how I get on.
Rather disappointed 🙁
Quick update – I just moved the trainer to get the serial number and a screw fell out!
Anyone NOT having issues with the Kikr Core?
Wahoo have just authorised a replacement unit. Hopefully the new unit will be okay.
My Wahoo Core is also reading ~50 lower as compared to my Quarq Dzero. I have warmup the trainer and did the spindown with no improvement. From my initial test, it looks like a fairly consistent offset at 100/150/200 watts.
For a small size guy like me, 50 watts is a huge different and not acceptable for something that cost this much. I have raised a ticket with Wahoo and they gave me the option to change out for a tested replacement unit or sending me a repair kit. However I don’t think the repair kit is the answer to the huge power difference.
I hope the replacement unit will track closer to my quarq…
I’m still working with Customer Support and haven’t yet been offered a “kit” for repairing. For those who have — what does the repair kit actually consist of?
In my case there was no kit, just some instructions in pdf on how to open it up, remove the belt tensioner, the belt, remove the screw holding the axle of the flywheel, recess the Woodruff key in there and reassemble everything. I did get a 100EUR voucher for this, but unfortunately it only fixed the clicking noise and not the whining noise I also had – so now I have to send it back in and get a replacement. Hopefully the replacement will not have the same issues.
I know that some other units (mostly the high level 2018 kickrs?) get a kit consisting of a slightly bigger Woodruff key that they have to then replace.
Many customers are describing problems with the Kickr Core. I am wondering if there are trainers out there which work flawlessly as I recently order a trainer myself. As the trainer is not yet sent to me I might cancel the order. And wait some months until these problems are solved by Wahoo. THis would mean to train this winter with my old trainer. But maybe this is the better way than to get a new trainer which does not work as expected.
Well – i’m waiting for someone to chime in that they’re riding and having no issues.
I’m ready to cancel the order and just go with the kickr 2018.
We have the climb, fan, and mat sitting here.
From what I understand, the issues that affects the Wahoo Core applies to the Kickr too as the internal mechanism is fairly similar between them.
I received my kickr core about 2 weeks ago based on Dcrainmker’s recommendations and it worked great. Now the unit won’t show any power at all. I see many are having this same issue. Very frustrating for a new unit. I know they will likely send me a new one but this does not show confidence in the unit for the future. Ray have you discussed this issue with Wahoo?
What app are you using, and does it show power in the default Wahoo app after pairing and shutting off all other apps?
Thanks for the reply. Using zwift on my apple TV. However, its also not showing any power reading on the wahoo app despite being connected. It seems like many people are having this issue with the unit.
So Wahoo customer service has been great but they admitted that some of the units are defective with this regard. They are going to send me a replacement that has been thoroughly tested before sending it out. Hopefully I wont get another dud. Its a bit of an inconvenience.
Had the same powerfail issue with my first Core within 2 weeks. I got a replacement unit (a new one), Which had the same problem after just one week! I’ve send this one back and asked my money back. No Whahoo for me anymore, terrible quality control they have.
Just curious if anyone else has seen this. Kickr Core seems to connect to everything ok except in the Wahoo Fitness app when selecting ‘Workout’.
The app sees the core and reports power ok when I go into sensors to check firmware/calibrate..etc but when you select workout you can see the core listed and green bars but the spinning wheel looking for it. It never finds it and so never reports a power number. All other apps closed so shouldn’t be any conflict and it is the latest version of the fitness app.
As I say no major problem as everything else ok including Trainer Road/Sufferfest… just seemed odd seeing this one issue with the Wahoo app that I never saw with the Snap previously.
No offence buy I have a strong feeling that the units that the manufacturers sent to the very known and populair testers ( like you and Lama) are not the off the shelf units. Tot boost sales up I think they are very well triple checked to make shure they last long in the tests.
I know a lot of people (inclusief myself) who had 3 OR 4 units replaced with issues in a month.
The Wahoo units I have now are normal off the shelf units from a retailer. Nothing special or marked. Also of funny note is that while Lama and Von where here this week they rode that KICKR daily as well.
No issues.
Not only that, but to the claim they are ‘triple checked’ is laughable. Only because as noted by both Lama and I, our KICKR units were not checked because they forgot to grease the units they sent to us. Once again demonstrating that generally speaking we get a crappier experience than the general public.
I see a lot of comments about problems with the Core. Got mine about 3 weeks ago. Worked perfectly for 2 weeks. Last week started making a clicking sound at a certain point in rotation of the flywheel. Does it when coasting or riding. When it gets going the noise is almost too loud for my in-ear headphones to drown out. Have taken back to the LBS and started a ticket with Wahoo. Will update with outcome. Have read eslewhere this is a known issue. Anyone else experienced this (apologies I have not read every comment here).
The clicking is easy to fix. I expect that they’ll offer you to send it back in, or fix it yourself and get a $100 voucher. None voids warranty and they provide detailed instructions for the second option, essentially you need to seat the Woodruff key properly.
The difficult thing to fix seems to be squeaking noises, rubbing noises, or loss of power…
The point is that people who buy big money for a trainer expect is to be plug an play. They expect a certain quality not a do it yourself Walmart piece of crab.
And a $ 100 voucher? Just to buy more Wahoo crab?
you probably mean crap?
It is only an option, you can also send it back and get it replaced with another unit without doing anything yourself.
I’m not entirely sure how crabs from Walmart got pulled into this, though, I do prefer Dungeness ones if someone is buying (given I’m from Washington and all that).
That aside, the factual reality of this trainer season is all companies are having issues with new manufacturing. Pretending one brand isn’t is just as silly as pretending all units coming off the like are broken.
Wahoo: Primarily sound issues with CORE and KICKR 18
Tacx: Primarily sound issues with Neo 2 and Flux S
Elite: Issues with BT control on Drivo 2 and Zumo dropouts
Kinetic: Issues with calibration and control, on inRide 3 and Smart Control ’18
I suppose CycleOps isn’t having an issues, but then again, they just re-painted the shell and called it a new version. The reality is we’re hearing more on Wahoo trainers for the really simple fact that they produce far more trainers than everyone else (probably everyone else combined). Though you can easily browse the comments of the other reviews to see it’s not all roses for everyone else.
I’m one of the 3% who have had a problem with the Kickr Core – in my case a scraping noise from the drum. I sent Wahoo support a video demonstrating the noise and they got straight back to me with instructions for a DIY repair (with an offer of $100 discount in the Wahoo US store) or alternatively a replacement with a new and tested unit. Living in the UK, and not needing anything else made by Wahoo, I chose the replacement. They explained that there would be a delay before they could ship it but that they would send the replacement before requesting return of the original unit.
I took that to mean that I could use the original trainer while waiting for the replacement to arrive, and did so without encountering any problems, though it was slightly noisier than I had hoped for (still nothing like as noisy as the wheel on rollers is was replacing).
The replacement shipped 19 days after I contacted Wahoo support and arrived the next day. I’m pleased to say that it worked perfectly and has continued to do so for the two weeks I have had it. It arrived on a Friday, I packed up the original trainer and Wahoo arranged for it to be picked up on the Monday.
Clearly it was a quality control issue but I have to commend Wahoo for their handling of my case, particularly for not requiring me to send back the original unit before replacing it, and for their swift response to my emails.
Over two weeks on, I can report that the replacement Kickr Core has been working perfectly, and is very quiet, the main sound coming from the drivetrain. It doesn’t feel exactly the same as cycling on the road – it feels a lot more sluggish when accelerating – but at steady speeds the effort feels about the same and the figures on the same sort of ride match up with the real thing.
I can recommend the Kickr Core!
Had 3 Kickr Core broken in 2 months. Same issues eg. suddenly loss of power.
Have the Idea that this unit was to quickly put in the market just becauce Wahoo was losing a piece of the midrange market to Tacx with there Flux.
If they want beta testers I’ll do it for free not for to pay al lot of money first.
If people ask me about the Kickr Core I just say: “Don’t buy it, the are to crappy”.
Just my 2 cents.
I’m currently waiting on my replacement Kickr Core from Wahoo. I received the unit last week on Tuesday. My first ride was 20 miles on Zwift on Wednesday. On Thursday, I was 10 miles into a ride on Zwift when the unit stopped registering speed and power. This is the first trainer I’ve ever bought. It really sucks to be part of the 3% who got a faulty unit.
I purchased a Kickr 18 in early October. It works perfectly. I suspect tht is the case with the vast majority of units.
Hey Ray and All Kickr Core owners..
I’m looking to get the CORE but have a question about bike compatibility and non-smart usage…
Basically, myself my wife and my son all intend to use the Kickr. My son and myself will use it with Zwift but my wife will just want to jump on and pedal following some random youtube training videos. Will the core still work for here like this? ie not connected to anything?
Secondly, my son and I both have bikes with quick release wheels, but my wife’s is a thru axle (Specialized Ruby Disc).. Are we just going to be able to swap the bikes over easily between the QR and thru axle bikes, all 3 are 11 speed.
Thanks!
It will work not connected to anything, as long as there is power. She’ll probably want to just use the free Wahoo app to at least set the incline (such as to replicate 0%, 1%, etc…), or a given wattage. But it’s not really required.
For swapping between thru-axle ot quick release it’s just a simple part that only takes a few seconds. Once everyone has done it a few times you’ll be good at it.
Brilliant – thank you!!
Hello,
Great review. I just received mine.
I also have the favero assioma. Which I guess are accurate.. I performed calibration for the kickr then the assioma. And I made a small test in ERG mode :
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
What do you think ? For me I can’t understand this 30 W offset between both power. I guess the kickr core have a power issue ? I send a message to wahoo and they told me it’s normal because +/-2 and the wahoo and on the assioma… but 30W is huge. Even more at 200W.
Also, is it normal that the power on assioma are inconstant like that in Erg mode ? I know that there is power smoothing on kickr curve but it seems a bit too much no ?
Thank you 🙂
Arthur
Well its simple math really. 2% of 200w is 4 watts, if both power meters were reading to opposite ends of their error margins that would make for a 8 watt difference at 200w. Assuming your bike drivetrain is not halfway broken losses are small. When friction facts became all the rage I think the highest losses ever found were pretty much at 93% of original power (thats 14 watts at 200w).
So if you had the most inefficient (while not broken) drivetrain ever, and both power meters were reading to opposite ends of their error margins the sum of acceptable difference would be 4+4+14=22 watts.
This is totally a worst case scenario because the odds of all those factors coming into play at the same time (and contantly) seem very unlikely.
So I would say something is broken on your part. Also that seems like a really smooth power reading on your kickr. No idea if thats normal.
I have a Tacx Neo 1 and a P2M NG and they read identical within 0-5 watts difference under all circumstances that I have seen so far.
My core has been good. Got mine early October and done nearly 1200km without a problem…compared the wattage with my p1 pedals and they generally read between 1-3 watts higher than those but good enough that I keep my p1 on my outside bike and use the core as my power source indoors.
So there is one happy customer anyway.
Hi Arthur-
The first/main thing you’ll need to do is to turn off the default KICKR ERG smoothing. This is in the Wahoo app under settings of the KICKR/CORE. Basically, it fakes the data you see. Wahoo keeps it on, as it makes prettier charts like yours, but in reality, it’s not showing what the KICKR is actually doing.
I don’t disagree there’s a bit too much variance there, but it’s hard to tell if you’re actually on the edge of acceptability, or simply not acceptable.
Also, I assume you’ve:
A) Done a KICKR CORE Spindown (preferably after about 10-15 minutes of warmup)
B) Done a Favero Assioma zero offset (without anything on the pedals)
C) Sacrificed something of value (i.e. cookies) to the power accuracy gods
Cheers!
Hi Ray,
not sure if it’s been asked before, but is the Kickr Core able to transmit ANT+ and Bluetooth signals simultaneously?
Regards
Simon
Well, for what it’s worth, I have an original model Kickr, and it can do it. Given that Ray says that the Core is basically the 2017 Kickr minus the adjustable height and foldable legs, I’d be EXTREMELY surprised if it can’t – it makes no sense for Wahoo to maintain two completely different firmwares. (I train with the iPhone driving the Kickr, and a Garmin 520 tracking my heart rate and other stats; as long as I don’t have the FE-C control connected at the same time as the Bluetooth control channel, it all works just fine. Having two control channels running at the same time causes Strange Things to happen.)
Good day
I ordered the Kicker Core three weeks ago and I have not received it yet. Mean while, I am reading a lot about all the trainers and I was not sure any more if I had made the good choice but after I read your review, I pretty sure I made the good choice. I have two questions :
1. Some people on the net were saying that the stability of the Core’s stand was so so. I even read that a person almost fell on the side when standing up. What is your opinion about it?
2. I will be using Apple TV as well and I bought an ANT+ to Bluetooth signal, CABLE, for my Garmin cadence and HR sensor. For the speed and power, does the Core provide them?
Thank you!!!!
1. If someone fell off it was user error…it’s super stable.
2. The Core provides power.
1. Thank you!
2. Speed too???
1) Totally agree. Anyone can tip over any trainer (especially if tall and they mount the bike is a less then optimal manner). The CORE isn’t really any different here.
2) Yes, it includes power+speed. No cadence.
I am also having trouble with the CORE. My first unit’s power readings were very low compared to my 4iiii power meter and the disparity increased as the power increased. Wahoo support did quickly respond to my issue and had me do some testing of the unit in ERG mode, but the unit wouldn’t even let me complete the test. The flywheel also had scuffs on it like it had been used. After support reviewed the test’s .fit file I sent them, they promptly sent me a new unit. This unit is working better but it still reads about 10% low compared to the 4iiii even after the proper spindowns and calibration of the power meter. Support said up to 10% variation in power is within the “normal” range and that many people just use their power meter for the power readings but I’m not happy with that as I will need the trainer to be used with my other bike that doesn’t have a power meter and that disparity make a meaningful difference with results in Zwift. I don’t feel I’m getting the functionality I paid for and now my confidence in the unit is low, so will likely seek a refund, unfortunately.
I’m having similar issues with the power reading much lower than my 4iiii, at lower wattages it’s as much as 30% different. Support have told me that as cadence isn’t measured it’s more difficult to measure power as cadence is apparently 1/2 of the power calculations..!? Similarly, they don’t see an issue with my consistently repeatable power differences, which makes me question what the +-2% power accuracy they advertise is actually measuring against. If Ray’s (and others) Core is a few watts different from his pedal based meter, how is 30W difference (at 80W) from my crank PM just as accurate within +- 2%?
If their support can’t offer me any reasonable explanation or resolution, I too will be seeking a refund.
I would start here first: link to dcrainmaker.com
That’s a very useful post, and I had read it and commented there on this a few days ago: link to dcrainmaker.com
If the readings were out by a consistent percentage, say 10%, I could live with that as I would just need to drop my FTP in zwift / TR by 10% and the rest of my zones will re-adjust. The problem is that I’m always out by 25-30W, so I can’t just drop my FTP by 25W and expect the rest of my training zones to match up.
Wahoo have sent me a replacement Core, because as well as my power reading issues I was getting a large number of failures while doing Spindowns.
I’m happy to report that the replacement Core appears to be tracking much closer to my 4iiii, within a few W at any point. I’ll be doing some more testing over the next couple of days, but I’ve included a comparison during the initial part of Jon’s short mix (stopped in fear at the mega 10sec intervals). You can see the difference on my previous Core in the comment above this. 4iiii in pink.
My request is pending. Did you do all the erg testing they asked for? I’ve done it 2X. The results were abysmal
They didn’t ask me to do any erg testing, they just wanted to see the results of the spindowns I did via the Wahoo Fitness app (not the Utility app). I guess the combination of seeing those results as well as the fact that the spindowns errored out half the time was enough for them to be happy to replace.
Hello All,
is the Core able to control a power of about 80W with a pedaling frequency of 90 and a gear ratio with the big ring in the front and some middle ring in the back (e.g. 50/23). With my Neo I have no problems to control this, but I tested e.g. the Flux S and this trainer was not able to control a value of below 150W with this setup.
Maybe someone has already tested this or is so kind to do this test for me
I want to purchase a second trainer for my girlfriend and this issue is very import for the trainer decision.
BR Rainer
Received the core yesterday and set it all up with the Kickr climb & headwind.
I’m slow – it took about 2 hours
Here is a time lapse.
link to youtu.be
3 rides and now no power. Seen many reports of this on the Swift forums as well. Definitely some quality control issues. I guess I’ll be sending mine back for replacement. Right before holiday break. #sigh
What did support say?
This just happened last evening so I don’t know yet. Based on forums, customers service has been very responsive and very accommodating for all issues. I get what you are saying that you can’t quantify a problem by forum posts without knowing how many units are in use. But there are a LOT of people on forums that are on their 3rd or 4th unit and its not just for this problem. Major issues with the pulley system it seems.
I’m leaning towards returning and buying one next fall once these issues are all worked out. We will be half way through winter by the time I will get a replacement and then soon after it will just sit in my basement. I can’t have it break when I start indoor training again next winter, especially once the warranty has expired. Its a shame cause its a wonderful unit to ride.
Totally get that yet, but I guess I’d just wait to see what support says.
“We will be half way through winter by the time I will get a replacement and then soon after it will just sit in my basement.”
To me though, this implies this has been holding you up all winter. Most folks are getting replacements in 1-3 days. So if one had the issue last night, reports it this morning, you’ll have a trainer within a few business days (obviously, Christmas might dork that up an extra day).
Same power loss issue (after working for 15 minutes during the first workout last night) with a new Core unit just bought from CT through this site. Wahoo support responded immediately this morning asking for receipt to ship replacement. I had a lot of concerns about all the issues and was considering Neo 1 now on sale as an alternative – temptation of potential future Climb addition and hope that it’s just 3% got the better of me. Hard to say with a sample size of 1, but sure seems like it’s worse than 3%. I just hope the replacement unit will be fine including longer term and I don’t have to go through the experience of multiple bad units some people report.
Hi DCRainmaker,
Tack Flux S, Elite Direto or Wahoo Kickr Core?
Which is the best option?
The CORE is the best of those three in terms of functionality/features. But it’s also the most expensive. I think most people are perfectly happy with any of those three.
Compra o CORE. Eu comprei um e estou contente. Experimentei o NeO e tive problemas com bikes com disco. O Elite é ruidoso. boas pedaladas.
Hi There,
Have been reading tests and posts on Kickr Core and Tacx Flux S, not sure if I even dare buy a smart trainer ?. Well, I am debating on buying a Kickr Core or a Tacx Flux 2. Would be happy to hear some advice. My top priorities: as low noise as possible, able to havdle watts at low speeds, and reliability.
Chees
Per
My replacement KICKR Core that was supposed to be thoroughly tested just broke with the same exact issue. The power output won’t register. If it’s truly a small percentage of these trainers with this issue what are the chances? I have honestly never experienced this with any product that I have bought. I think it’s unacceptable for such an expensive product. I would return it for a refund but already invested in the KICKR climb which I love.
I’ve had my replacement Kickr Core for two weeks now and it seems fine. Have done 12 hours on it so far. Hopefully I won’t have any more issues. Looking forward to trying it with my Kickr Climb Christmas present 🙂
Fair warning to potential buyers…
The fact that these wahoo devices do not support cadence right out of the box is absolutely aggravating.
It’s 2018 and the fact that Wahoo hasn’t incorroporated cadence is a goddamn shame.
We have a tacx vortex that’s a few years ago and this new Wahoo Core is already a pain in the ass with having to pair the cadence sensor every time.
LETS not even get into the fact that adding a cadence sensor takes away a valuable Bluetooth sensor slot from the Apple TV for say heart rate! ..
SO BE WARNED – and it should not be understated – cadence doesn’t not always work – it drops out – during rides.
SO i don’t have issues yet with the kickr core but i do have issues with the Wahoo.
Ray is there a reason behind this? Sell a few more sensors? Just doesn’t make sense when most new trainers have cadence out of the box.
No reason I’m aware of.
New Kickr Core….right out of the box the power readings fluctuated so wildly that Wahoo support is sending a new unit (maybe mid January).
Tried the usual suspects…BT interference, Operator error in set up…pretty much exhausted the available troubleshooting. Had zero issues setting up, pairing sensors via ANT+ (cadence is sort of a pain, but hey I knew that going in). Tried Wahoo erg workout….power went from 40 W to 450 W in same gearing and cadence. Tried a Zwift workout….same. Tried a Zwift race and bailed after watching my power output abruptly drop from 350 W to 50…several times. Seems a shame because I really like the unit versus my current BKOOL.
Hey this is something I am experiencing. I will pedal at a constant cadence and I try to maintain a constant power output through my legs and the power readings seem to fluctuate up and down so much on Zwift. I’ll do group rides with friends and they’ll hold steady watts of around 2.5 W/kg that fluctuate marginally whereas my readings are constantly up and down from 1.5-3.5 and possibly more (the final results of a ride prove this with much more significant variation on my trainer compared to the power pedals that my friends are using). In addition to that my external Giant RideSense cadence sensor keeps dropping when pairing it through BLE to the Android Companion App (I ride using Apple TV which has the limited BLE connections so I need to use the companion app to connect the HRM and Cadence to the game). Not sure if I should replace the Giant RideSense cadence sensor with the Wahoo cadence sensor that came with the Kickr to see if this helps with the problem, but this is another story in itself.
Just wanted to know whether you got a replacement unit and whether the unit improved your power readings so that they were more steady rather than fluctuating so much?
“It sounds like Wahoo is going through some growing pains with the new manufacturing facilities…Given Wahoo is quickly assisting those that have issues, I wouldn’t make this a major driver in your purchasing decisions.”
From my own experience I’ll have to disagree. Wahoo support told me “we are currently experiencing an influx of KICKR warranty claims needing replacements.” I’ve been through 3 Cores. The first and second had the clicking issue, the third had a bit of a rough belt noise and the watts were 15-20% higher than the previous two. Wahoo support was great and quickly replaced the first two units once I sent a video of the issue. The third unit was returned for a refund. Paying good money to have this many issues was too much for me.
I think DC is a little too dismissive of the Core issues. When he mentions the stickers are flying off as the first concern it belittles the problems plaguing the Core. These manufacturing problems are not uncommon to Wahoo. I purchased a Snap in early 2017, which ended up being right before Wahoo shifted to the newer Snap model. Many people were having issues at that time as well, supposedly from a poor manufacturing tolerance on the roller cylinder. My Snap had excessive vibration and was replaced by Wahoo with a seemingly refurbished unit (box opened and missing block).
Obviously this is just my own experience and could be really bad luck. I would recommend waiting a bit before buying a Core and hoping Wahoo works out its kinks. Also, TONS of props to Wahoo for making an affordable quiet direct drive trainer. I wish good things for them but will likely be trying to get my hands on a Tacx Neo 2.
I purchased 2 Kickr Cores. The first unit failed after about 5 minutes. The second failed after about 100KM. I haven’t put any miles on the replacement for the first unit, but it is working so far. They haven’t responded about what they are doing about the second failed unit. They are taking care of me, but it is still very annoying. I wonder if issues are limited to a certain range of serial numbers?
Hey there,
just one question: Does anybody know if it is technically possible to add features like this “road feel thing of the Neo” to the kickr and if wahoo announced any additional features to come for the next month?
Thanks Jan
Not possible. Massive hardware differences between the two in terms of the electromagnetic aspects of the NEO that allows it to do it.
Thanks! That helps very much!
My second replacement KICKR core just broke with the same power broadcasting issue. That’s 3 units in a row. I really love using the KICKR climb so I would ideally stay with Wahoo despite the annoyance. Ray, what do you think I should do? Should I hedge my bets on a 4rth core? Ask them to send me a KICKR 2017 instead (is there any downside versus the core)? Or try to upgrade to the KICKR 2018 (are there the same issues with that unit)? Thanks in advance.
Get a refund and buy a Tacx Neo 1.
After my 3rd Kickr Core broke down and I was tired of riding to and from the shop with broken Kickrs instead of training, the shop offered me a Kickr 2018 without additional paying. I refused it and bought a Tacx Neo 1 instead.
So far I’ve been riding without any issues on the Tacx, it’s quiet and the road simulation is dope.
Thanks. I would but I already invested in the climb and I can’t return it anymore…
Sell it second hand 🙂
Just bought a new Core. Straight out of the box and it doesnt transmit power. Then I read that lots of others have had the same problem, or problems with noise/accuracy. A little bit surprised that Ray still says that 3-8% units are affected, given that it appears to be just a guess. Besides, when around 1 in 10 units are not performing the job it is supposed to be is shocking QA from Wahoo – imagine if 10% of Zipp’s wheel couldnt even turn?!? It’d be great to see Wahoo being held to account more firmly on this.
I’ll be chatting with them next week at CES in person to see if we can get a bit more clarity on either what’s going on or the numbers.
To be fair, most people comment here and elsewhere when they have problems. Few people sing praise when all is well. Ray, I’d be interested in Wahoo’s response. I do agree with Gareth that at first blush, the reports are appalling given the reviews and hype for the Core. Wahoo is delivering a replacement for my original unit after all of the troubleshooting could not address massive power fluctuations.
Thanks. As an owner of a Kickr v1 that never missed a beat over the 3yrs I had it, Im just a little shocked by the number of people reporting problems with the Core.
Bought my CORE mid December 2018, have used it for not more than 10h. So far so good.
The noise level is great, never realized how loud the bike transmission was. Power readings are stable, the brake power is insane and the wahoo cadence sensor is working like a charm. I guess I am a lucky costumer.
An additional factor is that it works with all my 4 bikes, a mix of road, mtb, with thru-axle and quick release, without buying any additional adapter.
To help address the complaint that satisfied customers don’t leave positive reviews…
I’ve had a KICKR CORE from CT just over a month, logging approximately 32h and 600 “miles” in the saddle. So far I’m delighted with it.
I’ve experienced no clicking noises. No belt noises. No power drop-outs or fluctuations. And (a bit sadly) no chevron decals loosening up and flying around the room.
The absence of cadence data was remedied by a cheap ANT+ dongle. I can’t speak to accuracy, since I have no other devices to compare it with, but it has given me consistent readings.
The only issue I’ve experienced is minor; the provided quick release skewer doesn’t close very securely and has flipped itself open a couple times.
I’m not denying there have been issues with the CORE, but there are numerous people like me who haven’t experienced any problems at all (thus far). And now a couple of us have posted.
Here’s some interesting self-reported data.
Someone posted the following poll in the Zwift Riders F*c*book community: “Lets see if wahoo really has production and manufacturing problems since switching factory? HOW MANY OF YOU DID OR DIDN’T HAVE VIBRATIONS, NOISES AND CONNECTING TO ZWIFT OR WAHOO APP WITH KICKR18, KICKR CORE OR 2017 KICKR SNAP?”
After two days the results so far are:
2017 Kickr Snap: 95% report “smooth and quiet”, 5% report “vibrations, noises, and/or connection problems” (58 to 3).
Kickr Core: 89% report “smooth and quiet”, 11% report “vibrations, noises, and/or connection problems” (42 to 5).
And the real “kicker”…
Kickr 18: 52% report “smooth and quiet”, 48% report “vibrations, noises, and/or connection problems” (26 to 24)!
Updating with final tally from the survey I mentioned above:
2017 Kickr Snap: 95.3% “smooth and quiet” (81 to 4).
Kickr Core: 88.7% “smooth and quiet” (55 to 7).
Kickr 18: 57.6% “smooth and quiet” (49 to 36).
Outstanding review DC. Considering the CORE for my wife and she has an 8 spd cassette on her desired indoor ride. How large does the spacer need to be to compensate for this gap? Appreciate your insight DC!
I, too, have had problems with my core. Purchased back in early October. It has worked fine, but has a loud whine/whistle that definitely means it isn’t “silent.”
Just talked with Wahoo. Told them about the sound, they immediately said they’d replace with new unit, though they are “currently experiencing an influx of KICKR warranty claims needing replacements.”
Just got notification of shipment of a brand-new replacement; I will send mine back in the packaging I saved from original one. So, a 10 on customer service attentiveness.
Given I work in the auto industry, and see plenty of early build and first-year headaches with vehicles, it isn’t surprising to see problems with the first units.
Add me into the group of frustrated CORE customers. My first unit produced an annoying loud grinding noise while pedaling. Sent that one back only to receive a 2nd unit that doesn’t transmit speed/power. Customer service wants to send me a 3rd unit, but I pushed back because I’m not convinced the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. will be any better.
This is indicative of a broader, systemic quality control problem at Wahoo and despite what you’ve heard, a 3% defective rate is in no way even close to accurate, simply based on the sheer volume of customers (in this forum and others) who have been shipped consecutive lemons.
I’m debating asking for the free KICKR18 upgrade, but again, not convinced that’ll make a difference, especially if this is an issue with electronics that might be used in both models. I will more likely than not pursue a refund and take my business over to Tacx.
Ray – please keep us posted on whatever you find out at CES. Thanks
I did indeed get a chance to to chat with the CEO, Chip Hawkins, about the issues with the KICKR 18 and KICKR CORE.
While I had hoped to film a short interview/explainer bit with him, that didn’t quite happen. Instead, he’s committed to posting a detailed response here on the issues they’ve had from a technical/etc standpoint. For those that have followed past Chip postings, you know they tend to be pretty straight shooting.
I believe he flew back last night from CES, so I’ll give him a day or two.
However, the 3% figure is pretty much correct. What’s incorrect is everybody’s assumption (including mine) on just how many units are out there (I was waaaaay under, but obviously can’t detail the exact units shipped). Also incorrect was that it was a manufacturing facilities error, instead, a design error (well, two errors). I’ll let him detail it all out (mostly, since that’ll sorta force his hand on posting, rather than me doing it). And I suspect once he details the specific issues they’ve had from a technical standpoint, the light bulb will click a bit as to why it seems kinda random and why it could all of a sudden happen (and what they’ve done/doing about it).
Again, not trying to sidestep the technical explainers, but really just trying to bend Wahoo’s hand a bit on posting in their own voice, rather than mine.
WAITING ?. I want to buy a Kickr but I’m waiting for them to figure out the “issues” before I do. I refuse to buy the 2018 model. Did Wahoo or the CEO indicate when the 2019 model was coming out? I’m praying that the 2019 model will have all the problems resolved and will be consistent as the 2017 model.
Add me to the list of people having issues with their Kickr Core’s.
I bought one in October and by November I was needing to have a replacement sent. The unit turned on & connected but I had zero power & speed output. Wahoo replaced this under warranty with another Core. This unit worked from December to today and is no longer working with the same exact problem.
My initial thought was it being in a garage space with no heat, but after reading all these reports I’m beginning to think it’s just not that. Especially because my Kickr Snap worked without any issues for 2 years in cold temperatures (sometimes as low as 28/30F).
After reading the Zwift forum I’m thinking of just not even bothering with Wahoo trainers anymore. A few users reported continued problems even with the Kickr ’18.
Long-time reader, first-time commentator. I bought a KICKR Core for myself for Christmas and got three rides in before it stopped registering power. I toggled bluetooth on and off, deleted the app, tried it on IOS and Android, etc.. Nothing works. Very frustrating to spend two hours futzing with technical issues rather than 90 minutes on a ride. 🙁
Hi,
Very new to smart trainers….if I have a workout (from training peaks I can export .FIT, .ZWO, .ERG and .MRC), can I load that into an app (a free one?) which this turbo looks at and will alter resistance to follow watts set in that session (ERG)?
Thanks and sorry if a silly question
So I am just finding this thread after having my third Kickr Core in 35 days go down.
Kickr Core #1 – Same issue, as posters above in this thread say, worked great for several rides, then all of a sudden dropped any communication with TrainerRoad or Wahoo App. It still shows up, but does not show speed or power, nor does it follow erg commands from anything, tried all the stops, called Wahoo and had it replaced because it was a “known issue”
Kickr Core #2 – worked, but power was way high. Trainer Road would say 200 watts, the Core put out 226.
Replaced with a new one after asking Wahoo. They did this quickly.
Kickr Core #3 – same pattern as #1. Dead on accurate with my Power 2 Max crank based meter, then after 2-3 rides it ghosts the same as my first one. The lights are on but no one is home. Actually it had the same original 1.0.4 firmware, so my sense is that they sent me an older untested unit.
Wahoos customer service has been responsive and has handled this well but that is not giving me any confidence in the Core at this point. I have wasted so much time and frustration over this I think I will probably punt on Wahoo.
If it’s really 3% then the chances of my 3 cores in a row breaking would be 0.0027%. Maybe I should try my luck in Vegas.
P.S. After my 3rd core broke Wahoo sent me a KICKR 2018 which has been working great. Wahoo customer service has been easy to work with.
Dan – I see how you got that figure, but I actually think the odds are even lower….
Your math assumes that the 3 purchases of Cores are all independent of each other. In other words, it would be as though you bought units 1, 2, and 3 from different retailers around the world at different times to ensure that #1 had absolutely no influence on #2, and #2 on #3.
However, because you only received #2 given #1 was defective, and #3 due to a busted #2, presumably the subsequent units were run through more rigorous factory testing prior to shipping, which is consistent with what we’ve heard from other posters. Therefore, the probability that the second unit is defective based on already having received a previous defective unit should be much less than 3%.
This is why, irrespective of what Wahoo has told Ray and others, I really struggle to believe their numbers. I look forward to more clarity from management here soon.
Wahoo says they’ll be circling by shortly. I think once they explain how the problem manifests, it’ll be a bit of a ‘Oh, that makes total sense as to why it would keep happening to the same person’.
I’m about to return my replacement unit because of massive vibration and noise at high power. I’m no Froome, but the wobble and whine at higher output is louder than my first unit, which had wildly fluctuating output readings but was silent and smooth. I am hoping that whatever replaces this second unit is silent and smooth…
I agree Wahoo CS has been easy to work with (so far), but I am frankly shocked that so many folks have had multiple failures. Even with Wahoo’s estimates, one has to say that Kickr Core mfg quality is on par with the old Yugo car….
I’m waiting on some public Wahoo comments.
(PS Take care Ray…great site)
Great to see that some people have good experiences with Wahoo customer support.
On the other hand, Im still waiting for my faulty Core to be picked up after two weeks.
The courier failed to even turn up yesterday.
Wahoo email says their turnaround time (in the UK) is currently 1-2 weeks which isnt so great.
Hi Ray, any more news on when Wahoo will make comment on this issue?
I have a support ticket in with no reply as of yet because of no power or speed readings.
We traded e-mails last night, and they’re still trying to finalizing the post or something. I stressed to them again last night that the pressure is only growing.
I can tell you your trainers dead though. If you’re getting the zero power issue, the communications chipset is fried, and you’ll need a new trainer. So unfortunately you’re waiting on Wahoo there. 🙁
I’m going to give them to the end of today to sort things out post-wise somewhere.
My Kickr Core is in the same boat — no power or speed on the second ride. Am still within the Clever Training return window (in part because of the shipment delays in the fall). My question: is the issue of such a nature that you’d avoid these units until they’re redesigned?
HI Ray, any news on this? your deadline for Wahoo has passed.
Echoing prior comments on the solid work done here by customer service. I heard back within 2 business days on my support ticket after my 2nd Core failed, and they have proactively shipped out a KICKR 18 with express shipping at no charge. I am obviously aware of the potential risk of running into the same problem with the 18 as I had with the 2 Cores, but fingers crossed Wahoo has identified and corrected the manufacturing/design flaw that has plagued so many prior units.
While we await comments from Wahoo, one interesting thing to share is that the email from CS emphasizes that I must not use the power block from the old unit on the new one. It might be as simple as the switch from the Core to the 18 requires a different power distribution, but perhaps the old blocks were defective and fried some of the internal circuits? Who knows, just speculating here…
Well… Just bought mine yesterday, and now reading this thread… A bit like Russian Roulette. Hope mine will hold, had one ride in and didn’t notice anything (well… in one ERG session, watts didn’t drop to 280 and kept on 340 for 3min, that did hurt…)
After 8 weeks of waiting on my first order in one Germany shop, i couldnt wait anymore to get a kickr, not really having any idea about the problems with the kickr core. I ordered on on amazon and received the kickr yesterday. Guess what. its DOA. no powerdata no speedreading. I tried everything i could find on the net with no luck. i just have a noiceless flyweel nothing else. i startet a ticket at wahoo page. Im a bit unsure if i stay with wahoo. i have 1400 EUR outstanding. 1 order isnt fullfilled as it looks like no kickr core availble anytime close, even the shops supplyer dont have any idea when they have numbers to sell. and now the second is DOA. As for all the advertisment and lots of blog posts and all the hey kickr core is so good u cant beat it.
i learned one thing in my economic studies. if u buy cheap u buy twice. i cant say the kickr core is cheap. but i think they have to rethink their approach. if u try to make things cheaper and get under a certain amount of money u need for quality u propebly destroy ur whole brand and business with it. I hope for us that wahoo is doing something fast.
Just got my replacement core last night. Unboxed and set up. Curiously, received EVER possible power cable to use worldwide.
Used new U.S. power brick; kept the old legs and skewer rather than have to repack those. Figure Wahoo can use them again.
Install was fine. Used app – both utility and fitness app found the new unit. Registered new unit; installed firmwear. Says that it makes power (watts) and recorded speed. Spindown worked fine.
There is an audible buzz now when coasting/not under pedaling. Like a Chris King-ish hub. Also, definitely some rubbing-like sound. Not grinding, just a whir-whir-whir. Took a movie of it. Hope it uploads.
@ Jon
That was my experience as well. New unit came with an array of worldwide power plugs to attach to the block. My replacement unit had the whirring you experienced, including a noticeable vibration.
@jim –
I see you are going to contact/have contacted them (?) about the second unit. What did they say?
I’m actually considering UNBOXING my old one and using it and returning this unit. I’ll use it tonight with my scheduled Sufferfest workout, and see how it is.
I’m considering asking for a full Kicker 18 and splitting the difference with them. This is getting frustrating.
@Jon
Nothing so far from Wahoo on Unit 2. I rode the second unit for about 15 hours. Speed and power readings solid, but the noise and vibration make me nervous. First unit had wildly fluctuating power readings — it did not work in Wahoo app Erg mode correctly. First unit is definitely a non-starter, and the second unit needs tech support evaluation.
I have no idea what Wahoo will do at this point. I hope the company will respond publicly about these issues….be nice to get some answers.
i think they just grew to fast and pushed something not ready.
imagine bringing a new unit and updating the old one is a bit more work then just 1 unit development and downstripping the old one with didnt work either.
so i looks to me we have 2 complete new products and both dont work very well.
A friend just had his unit sh*t the bed and a new one is on the way. Not sure if he is here, but his quote:
“Mine sounded like a plane taking off combined with someone eating potato chips with their mouth open.”
🙂
Hi Ray!
When in Zwift, Wahoo or Vector3 as power source?
Thanks!
Totally depends if you want to maintain complete continuity from indoors to outdoors. But personally, I generally just use the trainers power source.
At this point maybe a twitter storm to @wahoofitness will guilt their CEO/rep/PR flack into replying to Ray. Interesting to see that, re-reading the comments here, this has been a problem that is going on 3 months.
It does make one wonder if Wahoo pulled a fast one on reviewers-send out a perfect unit all boxed up and prettty, but one that was totally tested and checked over and over.
No offense to Ray—you do an incredible job and have incredible detail. And doing this on donations and subscriptions and funding from CleverTtaining is likely a financial challenge (maybe I I have more $$ sources too).
But I it certainly highlights the POTENTIAL for companiesntongame the system. And their lack of public response (Wahoos customer service has so far been great in my situation) leads to even more questioning on what they have done.
Maybe YOU have more $$ resource. Sorry for typo
One of the things most people forget is that I actually go back out and re-purchase/etc units via normal retail afterwards. So even if companies attempt to send me good units, it usually doesn’t work out very long.
In this case, I’m really trying to get Wahoo to make the post, since there’s a bit of nuance on some of the problems that I don’t want to mistake and then introduce more confusion. Some problems (like the power transmission bit) are super clear-cut in terms of cause. But how Wahoo plans to address the resolution for unmodified customers is the piece I want them to commit to.
Oh, and less one thinks I’m immune…I just broke my KICKR18 about 20 minutes ago…while in the middle of filming a sound comparison video. Sound/lock-key problem. They’re going to love me this morning.
Glad you posted this Ray…I was going to reply to the earlier comment.
One of your strengths is that you obtain test units via “normal” channels. This lessens the possibility of reviewing a unit pretested for functionality/reliability.
As far as Wahoo is concerned, an observation from the LBS is that they’ve grown so big so fast they may not have QC down for high demand products. I will be interested in a corporate response because the Kickr Core/Kickr 2018 situation could really damage the company if not addressed ASAP.
Rock on with your bad self Ray
Thanks for your reply Ray; like I said, not pointing a finger at you. And, mea culpa – while I knew before and you posted in this thread, you do buy units at your expense too. So, again, mea culpa. I will certainly be giving you the $$ to help support your endeavors. Your work is top notch. Again, mea culpa.
My comments come because I work at a company (which will remain nameless) that tests products. It may rent samples from manufacturers to get early impressions, but it only tests samples bought at retail. I’ve seen PLENTY of automotive products that are not only the top .05% of the sales of a version, but they populate press fleets as if they are the common version. And these press cars often have INCREDIBLE performance. Huh. This is why I take reviews of bikes and products from many sites (other than yours) with a tiny grain of salt. A $15,000+ bike review in an exotic location (like a car review) makes me wonder how the normal, $3,500-$5,000 version works — the bread-and-butter product.
That said…Wahoo’s silence is deafening, as the saying goes. I’m one who will give them one more chance…then I’ll move on (back) to CycleOps. Haven’t had any problems with them, and they warrantied a nearly 10 year old product ASAP…and it worked flawlessly.
Whatever Wahoo’s excuse/reason/answer is…it needs to be conveyed to customers. I can’t imagine people going back to them.
I have owned a first & second gen Kickr (both sold) and was considering either a Core or even a Concept2 Bikeerg (I now live in central LA where road riding isn’t in the cards). I’m holding off until there’s more info from the company, but as someone who works in the hedge fund/private equity fields I would imagine management is not only working on resolving the technical aspect of the issue but also has to coordinate with their investors on how and when to communicate the solution.
So the fact that nothing has come out yet is understandable as the company has received private equity funding and I’m sure their staff and legal advisors has to sign off on things. Several years ago the CEO’s response probably would have been “mea culpa and we’ll make it right for everyone affected.” This will probably be the same result, but there are just more hoops for the company to jump through.
Kudos to Ray for balancing the right of consumers to know what’s going on and giving the company space to formulate a fix and how to communicate it.
@jason u really thing a private equity investor should have more rights then a customer?`
if thats the case then something is really wrong here.
Right now its fact that they know they have a problem and they just sit trough it without a statement. Which is a f*cking no GO !
For me they destroyed any trust they worked so hard for.
I had a short call with a wahoo customer service and he clearly told me they know they have a charge of defective powersupplys which when used can and do kill the internal circuts of the kickr. which in result is a no power no speed transmission, as i see in my DOA Kickr. On the other hand he woesnt the clear with his statement on Flywheel issues. What he did say they have tausends of outstanding kickr which might have a problem, not now but maybe later, on top it sounds like they changed production and should have a solution.
But and here comes the point for me. i lost any trust in their F*cing secrects about all of it.
I just orderd a tacx Neo for 929 EUR, as the Neo 1 is outdated and so supplyer clear their stocks right now.
One thing the was a no brainer for me to change is the clear situation of the neo that u dont have a bellt and u have less bearíng which could brake as tension of the belt is at it looks like a key for a long living kickr. i dont know how they think they can make sure that this bearings arent overstressed with wrong tension. so i dont see the kickr as i very good long term product. this i all just my view and my understanding. and also this answer from customer service was just once saying not any offical statement from wahoo.
Im very disappointed with the actual wahoo situation right now.
@Rene
I never said that their ownership structure has more “rights” than a customer. No company can last very long with that mentality. And that’s assuming we know the detail of how things are run there.
Rather, like any good company, they are presumably assessing the nature of the problem, its scope, and the best way to make things right. Think of it as a “ready aim fire” approach rather than a “fire ready aim.” So this may take a little extra time to figure out and communicate but I’m sure they’d rather get it right the first time comprehensively rather than having to fix things on an ad hoc basis.
And whatever the fix is, they’re probably trying to coordinate with suppliers so that the communication isn’t “we have a solution, but if you have a defective unit we’re so backlogged that it will take months to fix yours.” If that’s the case there will be a crap-ton of refurb’d Cores available soon as customers like you return theirs and purchase a competing product.
Admittedly, I don’t have a fried Kickr gathering dust while I’m out $900USD. Maybe my reaction would be different if that were the case, but by many accounts their customer service is trying to keep on top of things.
One thing we can all agree on is that “all companies make mistakes, it’s how they handle and communicate them that separates the good from the bad.”
@ Jason
Clear on that, but they dont Communicate at all. Which Looks for me as a Strategie.
And What would or could they say not risking all Xmas Sale Go in returnmode.
Looks Like they have checked kickr Stocks for replacement, but their is not a big or None supply for new customer.
If this is the case i dont think we will See any big Statement from Them.
They keep replacing which is good but dont think they do themself a favor for the Future.
I mean dont get me wrong a Lot of Corps use their customer as Beta Tester and develop their production over the time. But Here ITS frustrating it is a recreational Tool where Lots of ppl spend hours or days of traoibleshooting or wait for replacment and cant use the Trainer and have to figure Out in their own that something is wrong. I spend hours figuring Out i got a. DOA kickr. No information on their Website gave me any Help. And they knew that U could destroy Ur kickr with broken powersupplys. IT Just lost time for Lots of customer.
Well, another 24 hours and nada from Wahoo. Threw in the towel and ordered a Tacx Neo (v1) from CT — $1080 with the VIP discount. Thank goodness CT is so good about returns — will definitely keep doing business with them!
Minor morning update: I’m shooting a technical walk-through video with the CEO (Chip) today. Back to the original concept from CES. Part interview, but mostly just letting him walk through (with trainers in front) the technical details of the issue/resolutions/impacts/etc… Similar to what I did a few years ago at Eurobike with an earlier KICKR issue.
My guess is it’ll be a one-shot wonder, so shouldn’t take more than a few minutes to edit and put online.
Looking forward to this. I’ve been using my Kickr 18 almost daily since mid-November and it has been flawless. Hoping it stays that way.
Any update on this?
We shot it last night. Just have to find a spare hour or two to get it all cleaned-up/edited. With four recording devices and 4,400mi between us, there’s a little bit more clean-up work than I anticipated to get everything to match quality/color/volume-wise. Got 12-14 hours of flying tonight, so if the kids cooperate and sleep, I should be able to edit it then.
Cheers!
Looking forward to this, as my second core just fried itself. First one was DOA, second lasted a month. I definitely have the old power brick, as opposed to the new ones that Wahoo is saying should be used. Really annoying as I was set to ride stage 6 of the TdZ, now there is no way I can finish all the stages if I am to be without a trainer for a week +.
@Dan
Where did you get this picture from?
I pulled it from the Zwift forum, it is being sent to warranty customers who are being sent replacement kickr cores, so they don’t re-use their old power brick.
The silence from Wahoo on the issue is deafening. I returned my second core to my LBS, will call wahoo and see if I can order one direct, and get a guarantee of a refund if they cannot send me a new unit without defects.
Hi,
after 4 short rides my kickr core broke… No power and speed readings anymore.
It’s so sad. I hope the Wahoo support does react soon.
lucky u could at least do 4. i never got a chance.
Update: Received my KICKR 18 free upgrade last night. Upon opening the box, I could definitely tell that this was a refurbished unit, just based on the fact that the packaging was all disheveled and some of the parts were just casually folded into an unlabeled, padded manila envelope. Obvious evidence that they are running around with their hair on fire down in Atlanta if you ask me… Anyway, I can’t really complain too much because of the free upgrade.
The unit itself connected via Bluetooth to both my smartphone and MacBook with no issues. Well, that’s not entirely true. I had to jump through some hoops to get Zwift working (they have a Bluetooth-specific troubleshooting section on their website for Mac users that involved deleting some Bluetooth files), but eventually I got everything working.
Regarding the ride quality, it’s definitely not silent like we see/hear on Ray’s YouTube video, primarily for 2 reasons: 1.) there’s an audible whirling sound when pedaling with steady cadence; and 2.) the two smallest cogs in the rear produce a clicking sound/feeling, almost like riding over gravel. My hope is that the 2nd problem is related to a new cassette vs. not a new chain (maybe ~1k miles on the chain), and not the trainer itself. Regardless, neither issue is bad enough at this point for me to reengage customer service, at least not until other dissatisfied customers are dealt with first.
Looking forward to more detail from Ray’s interview.
Not sure about the whirring – maybe my 2018 does have some minor sound separate from drivetrain? In any case for 2) Yeah mine was super noisy with 1 season worn Ultegra chain a new chain quieted things down a lot and I had to tweak gear indexing a little. The first two cogs 11-12 still are noisy and vibrate a bit – but I’ve seen this issue before on other Ultegra equipped bikes that weren’t mounted to a Kickr, so normal. It improves as the cassette/chain wear in together over time.
Like Ray mentions, the Kickr design can magnify some drivetrain sound.
Went back the first flawed unit this am. Second ride on the replacement one was weird—Sufferfest said watts on Kickr were controlled properly but it seemed off and VERY hard to do the workout. I thought I was just tired. This am it was all over the place. Sfest said to do 125 to warm up, Kickr Said I was doing 250+ and effort was high. I took the newer one down and put the cassette on the old one and boxed the newer on up to send back. Troubling quality control.
Greetings Ray!
I’m considering the KICKR CORE or Flux 2 Smart as my first smart trainer for use by both my wife and me, but I’m unclear (not super well-versed in tech/protocols) whether we will have issues getting all of our sensors to work together with the trainer and Zwift (will be new members). We both use Garmin sensors (HRM-Run, crank cadence, wheel speed – separate units, not the combo) and computers (Forerunner 920XT).
1. What I am understanding is that IF I use Apple TV to transmit from trainer & sensors to Zwift or other interactive format, we will have issues because Apple TV limits to 2 “feeds” (trainer + one other sensor) and we have 3 additional “feeds” (HR, CAD, & SPD) and possibly 4 if I use my Powertap hub as well. Am I correct? Can I get around this by using my Macbook Pro as the recieving unit instead of the Apple TV? Other factors to consider?
2. Are our computers (Forerunner 920XT) capable of controlling the trainer? Meaning, can I ride one of my previous outdoor rides on the trainer with my Garmin controlling the resistance/grade/etc? Also, are there other limitations that my 920XT has in interfacing and “controlling” the trainer?
3. Given my perameters (multiple users, various sensors, and Forerunner as a computer), would you suggest a different trainer/manufacturer? We are blessed to have some financial freedom in choosing a trainer, but if we can go middle of the pack we can invest in a CLIMB or powermeter for the road for my wife instead of shelling out for a top-tier trainer.
Thank you for all that you do to inform and help this community! Your reviews and tidbits have been most helpful over the years.
Just thought I should put my KICKR Core experience out there since it is interesting to see what other people are experiencing with their Cores. I had ordered my KICKR Core from CT the first day they were available and received it Sept 15th. The belt seemed really tight when I got it, but it worked great the first few short 30 minute rides. Unfortunately, on my 4th ride I did a long 2 hr zwift session and afterward, it sort of squeaked a bit each flywheel revolution. I could loosen the belt tension screw 10 or so turns to make the sound mostly go away, but when the trainer was warm the sound still was quite audible. The Road.cc thread about KICKR issues seemed to point to damage of the flywheel bearing races being the issue and those were unfixable. The noise never did get worse, and I never did get the clicking sound from this unit, so I rode it a couple of times per week for a month and a half. Around then the sound finally annoyed me enough to send a video of the unit in action to Wahoo on Nov 2nd.
Wahoo support responded on Sunday, Nov 4th, and gave me the choice to try to fix the problem or do a replacement. Since the instructions for the fix they gave seemed to be for the key problem, which caused clicks in the road.cc thread and my problem was a creak, I went with the replacement option. They shipped it out on the 6th and I had it by the 9th of November. Faster customer service than I was expecting.
Trainer2 seemed like a new unit in the box. It had the same packaging as Trainer1. Also, like anyone would do when getting a replacement device, I ended up keeping the first trainer’s power block and axle bits and not unwrapping the new ones when I switched out the trainers in the new box. Interestingly, the belt of Trainer2 seemed about as tight as Trainer1, so I opened it up and backed the tension screw off by a turn, so the drive wheel was a little easier to move, and so far Trainer2 has worked well since I received it. There is a small issue where the plastic cowling rubs on the flywheel, but I can bend the plastic away from the flywheel before riding on the trainer which stops the rubbing. I do have to bend the plastic cowling before every ride since the cowling’s natural position rubs, which is slightly annoying, but not annoying enough for me to contact support again.
I do wonder if in keeping my original power block, I avoided the bad power block problem some people have been experiencing recently. My first trainer was from the very first batch of trainers to go out, and it seems only some newer trainers have had the communication issue and possible bad power blocks? I look forward to Wahoo’s video to see what they have to say about what is going on.
To review the trainer’s actual use. They have been great on Zwift and using Erg mode during training sessions with only a little bit of flywheel vibration. The vibration can be damped pretty well by a couple of rubber exercise flooring mats. Also, both trainers seem to have pretty repeatable power readings. They are within +/- 2 watts on average when compared to my Gen2 Stages Left side power meter, which is good enough I guess. Trainer1 did read high in sprints on the original firmware like was shown in the initial reviews, but the latest firmware shows pretty good agreement between my power meter and the trainers even at 1000 W. My only recent noise issues have been with trying to quiet my drive train. R8000 does not like having its rear derailleur hanger even a little bit out of alignment. All in all, I am happy with the actual use of both my Cores, but I do hope no other issues crop up.
Some stats for on the trainer. Since Sept. 15th.
32 hours (27 different days) of riding on Trainer1 (9/15 to 11/7)
43 hours (31 different days) of riding on Trainer2 (11/8 to 1/19)
I have had creaking on 1 and scraping on 2, but no clicking or communication problems.
@ned
Thx for Sharing.
I Wonder after ur exp with belt tension If the Kind of blet used vs the one from earlier Versions of the kickr is one core Problem? Its quieter yes if tension ist right but with tmep Change tension Changes which can cause bearing Problems. That why i really See a big Advantage on tacx neo Style Trainer with a direct flywheel Trainer. I wonder If a Chain would Help Here as u could better Work with tension. Because the actually, belt needs a kind of tight tension to not Slip.
Hard to say If this can Work in the Long Run.
link to de-eu.wahoofitness.com
Lol after reading this. I dont Wonder about anything anymore and this is the old kickr belt
I really do not really know if adjusting the belt tension on my second trainer has actually helped or not. I was mostly trying to be prudent, since the bearing race damage seemed most likely to be caused by an over-tensioned belt, and the first trainer worked with a loose belt. Also, from what I could feel using my first trainer even after I loosened the belt, it did not slip even at 1000W. I can’t really do much more than that, so I have no idea if it would have slipped at the maximum power on the spec sheet.
I also wonder how the belt tension changes with Temp. The noise on my first trainer changed quite a bit with temperature. Sometimes quieter, sometimes louder. And changing the belt tension also changed the noise quite a bit, and it wasn’t just a simple looser belt=quieter. Sometimes a looser belt was noisier. Part of the reason I returned that trainer.
As to the change in belt type between earlier kickrs and ’18 versions or other drive possibilities … Noise is the single most important issue for me using a trainer, so I definitely like the new belt setup. As long as max power is over 1000W and it is reasonably accurate.
Drive belts typically lose 20 to 30% of tension after the initial period of use, so I can understand they would tension them high at assembly, knowing that it would relax a bit in use. I doubt this would be the reason for problems. This is a pretty standard application.
@bob
Are u Sure?
We have 3 Bikes with Gates belts at Home their is No way this belt is losening. I never Had to Touch it !
And one is a E-Bike which i Ride with full Power Plus my own wattage so i guess its around 300-600 Watt allways and their is not a single Bit of slack after multi 1000 km !
Unless you have a belt tension measuring device you wouldn’t even know. I’m not talking about a slack belt. It would feel the same, but a device that applies a fixed force and reads deflection would show a tension decrease that would not be detected by touch. A slack belt that is felt is completely detensioned.
Also a bike belt is different than the power transfer application that I think the kickr is using.
Bought a Kickr 18 in early October. It needed replacement in early January. Now the replacement needs to go back as it clicks and groans as well.
I may Ebay the second replacement and move on to Tacx.
Glad I held on to my old, faithful Computrainer. I can ride it as things get sorted.
on a tacx flow dump trainer till my tacx neo arrives.
not happy with all that wahoo secrets.
i know DC is doing a awesome job, because he is in the shit himself, after such good reviews. I imagine that this isnt feeling good either. but very interesting that their is no offical comment just from wahoo. instead they use a blog plattform to please at least dc’s follower.
for my cx event today i just used my tacx antares roller. best with cx tires as u can easy go from 150 watt -> 650 watt just with 2 bar on the tires and easy to use just jump on and of no tires change nothing.
On my second kickr Core and waiting/hoping for the Kickr response!
I bought a Kickr Core after Thanksgiving, but after remodeling my basement, I finally had a chance to set it up today. I chose the Core partially based on this review.
The Core paired with both the Wahoo and the Zwift app easily. Hopped on the bike and tried Zwift, but no matter what I did, I didn’t move. Figured out that I wasn’t getting any speed or power on the Zwift or the Wahoo app. Two hours of troubleshooting later, no progress, so I turn to google and find that the internet is full of people with this problem.
Pretty disappointing that this happened after I spent $900. Fortunately, REI has a good return policy, so I’ll take it back tomorrow. In the meantime, Wahoo really needs to get their act together and take care of the customer.
@dave:
thats exactly what happend to me. worst is they know it and let people search the internet for the f*cking fail . i wouldnt be surprised if u could sue them for knowing better and not telling anyone.
i mean how many people waisted time. at least they could swap out all powersupply’s if the know they are defective.
Anyway im out of this convo. looks like nothing changes their strategy to stay put and wait.
Personally, I wouldn’t but this trainer. The known QA issues have not been sorted and bad units are still being shipped. Additionally, the longevity of the unit is seriously in doubt as the internal bearings are known now to be of very cheap quality and will likely fail due to a heavy belt load. I just received a bad unit and am working with Wahoo to have it replaced. Many users have reported being on their 3rd or even 4th unit….
AS funny as it Sounds.
The snap is wahoo’s best trainer i guess 🙂
No belt and no bearings that get heavy load from single sided belt tension.
Personally I think you should stop recommending this trainer DC and remove it or at the very least make it clear in your trainer rec. guide that there are serious known issues with the units. There are other, better quality units being made that have no known issues, think CycleOps H2 which is made in USA, that should be on the list instead. Disappointing that Wahoo continues to sell a bad product and that DC seems to be fine with promoting that product.
I’m not sure why a product made in the USA would have anything to do with it. Especially one that’s an inferior product to every other trainer out there in that price category (or below it). Still…
I think you’ll see why in the video I’m not super concerned with past issues and specifically recommending this unit for new purchasers. The video edit is done, and it’s just doing it’s slow rendering thing right now. Plus whatever time it takes to upload. I’d recommend watching the video to understand the technical issues they’ve had, and what they’ve done to fix them.
As for this ‘internal bearings are known now to be of very cheap quality’ issue before. Not sure what you’re referring to. Perhaps you’re referring to the key problem…which is also discussed in-depth in the upcoming video.
Hi Ray …
Appreciate your hard work on this. Waiting with bated breath to see the Wahoo side of the story.
Curious…did their PR department ask to review the statement/walk-through video before you posted it? I’m always interested in how companies try to control their messaging.
No, nobody has seen the video except me.
I shot an intro solo before we got on the Skype call together. Then we shot the Skype call portion together. Then after we hung-up I shot the closer portion solo again.
I haven’t written a text post to accompany it (yet). Though, once I do (sometime after I hit publish on the video), they won’t see that either till it publishes.
Thanks for the video, Ray. It sheds light on the two issues that are most prevalent out there and good explanations. I think Wahoo might consider the use of Loctite 660, which is a product specifically designed for these types of key/keyway fitment issues. I assume that the people who are doing the self repair, might have slightly enlarged keyways, and even with an oversized key that wahoo is shipping them for the self repair, there still might be some play. That’s where Loctite 660 comes in.
As well, there have been a lot of second guessing on the belt tension and whether it is excessive and could cause bearing failures. I see some people are reducing the tension themselves. I think Wahoo should comment on this as well, since reducing belt tension may cause more harm than good.
Here’s the reference for Loctite 660 if anyone is interested:
link to henkel-adhesives.com
And a video:
link to youtu.be
If you want to read more on the “key” issue but also read about folks having bearings fail due to a heavy tension load read this thread: link to cyclechat.net
Clear to me that corners were cut in producing this $900 trainer. I’d not buy it and I’d think it irresponsible to recommend it. Also, and this is just my opinion, is the core rear axle height set to low to the ground for others? I have to boost the rear about 1.5cm just to get my bike level. Seems strange that the height would be optimized for something others than a 700c road bike. Maybe I’m missing something here?
More reading as well: link to reddit.com
Is the video up? One post implies it is, but I don’t see a link.
link to youtu.be
Thank you. This helps to Understand.
But i have to admit i build my own Computer and play alot with anykind of eletronic devices ans i killed non in 30 years without taking Care of anything that could reduce esd. But my kickr core didnt Had any Power and speed Out of the Box.
Actually i dont realy belief in this,Not that it isnt the Problem nur rather its not a small percentage broken.
And secondly did anyone try buy a kickr core in Germany or europe. Their arent alot available. Please dont Tell me that their is no supply because some other country buy millions so their is None for Europe.
They have a backlog Like weeks. I dont Understand this. I would rather say their is more in that.
Maybe im wrong. Could anyone tell how easy or fast they could get a kickr core!?
“But my kickr core didnt Had any Power and speed Out of the Box.”
As noted in the video, this could happen during removal from the box, due to the foam. That’s the reason they want to add the secondary ESD protection on the unit itself that they talked about, to keep that occurrence from happening. Whereas the first bit of approach is the power brick, since that’s the path most easily accomplished.
“And secondly did anyone try buy a kickr core in Germany or europe. Their arent alot available. Please dont Tell me that their is no supply because some other country buy millions so their is None for Europe. They have a backlog Like weeks.”
Since announcement the CORE has been backlogged – in most cases for 4-6 weeks. Only recently did it mostly catch-up (in many places). However, in most retailers backlog will actually be a function of the retailer ordering properly ahead of time. For example, orders for CORE now for retailers, are those from back this past fall they’ve placed ahead of time. Meaning, someone like Clever Training was placing their December orders in August. No kidding. Same goes for most retailers that wanted KICKR products in any significant quantities.
Did wahoo share a timeline for the introduction of ESD protection in the Core? I just returned my second Core, first was DOA, second lasted a month. Both lost speed/power. I’d like to get another, will order directly from Wahoo, but I’d like not to go through the don’t and dance of ordering a unit I know will die. It is dry where I live, I have an old house, the static issue sounds like a good explanation for my problems with the core.
They didn’t provide a timeline for that.
I’ll circle back tomorrow morning their time with any outstanding questions to them.
Awesome. Thanks for talking with them and doing the video. Transparency from a company goes a long way in my book. They should have done this a long time ago.
I really liked the core when it was working, just hate that I am without a trainer at the moment. I’ve already invested hundreds of dollars in accessories (cadence and hr sensors, mat, Apple TV, cassette, zwift) and I’m about to buy another to to dedicate to trainer setup. If only I had a trainer to use and finish the TdZ…
Another tv that is…
Ray – thanks for the video.
When Wahoo come up with a fix for the ESD issue (apart from the power block), will this be able to be retrofitted to all existing COREs? Either through recall or by the user?
If not, I can imagine a lot of angry owners when the warranty runs out and the ESD curse strikes. Or a glut of second hand units on ebay this time next year before warranties run out, or more returns to Wahoo before the warranty ends.
Thanks for the video Ray! Chip’s explanation was very helpful and I’m pleased that, while it took some time to get the logistics worked out, the company was willing to step up and provide some much needed transparency around the issue.
Much appreciated for making this happen!
Thanks for making this possible, Ray. And thanks to Wahoo for being so transparent.
The response leaves me kinda unsatisfied though. I sent the second Core back due to the now power issue just yesterday. The office room I train in is heated and pretty dry. I was hoping that a different power supply is all that is necessary to deal with that. But if a changed ESD circuit is the only thing that might finally make the Core „dryness proof“ it makes no sense to wait for a third Core in my case. In the end it’s easier for me to change trainers (Neo?) than to move to some other environment.
I took the neo 1 and IT Just arrived and tested in m Frist Ride. It works straight Out of Box No calibration no Power supply need.
Bring’s alot of fun and m Sprint toped Out at 1090 Watt and IT woesnt loud at all. In Same gearing and cadence i have some Vibration which goes over the Floor so i need something to put between Trainer and Floor , but im Happy with IT and Roadfeeling is a crazy experience 🙂 it actually feels Like Bad cobbles If U Ride in cobbles 🙂
Followup – I decided to give the Core another chance and contacted Wahoo to get my DOA unit replaced. I’m supposedly in the queue to get a new one. Not sure when that will happen. Meanwhile, they have my money.
Today I watched the video with the Wahoo CEO. Everybody praises him for acknowledging the problems, but I’m not so sure. I’m an engineer and understand that mistakes happen, but they’ve known about the no-speed, no-power issue, yet they still shipped units to unsuspecting customers. That’s poor policy and is fraudulent.
And a slight bit of static electricity fries the electronics? That’s weak. I live in the DC area, not Albuquerque. Sure, we have some cold, dry days in the winter, but I’ve never fried any of my other electronics with a little bit of static electricity. My TVs, iPhones, laptops, bluetooth speakers, bike computers, running watches, and coffee maker have survived many years here without getting zapped. I’m not really buying the CEO’s explanation. He also said that they’ve always had this problem, but they had so many other problems that this one was buried. That is nothing to be proud of. I wish I had never read this review and I wish I had never bought a Core.
I’m not sure what kind of engineer you are, but it doesn’t seem that you don’t understand what ESD is. ESD is electrostatic discharge, caused by unshielded components being damaged when they meet a difference in potential. In Wahoo’s case, it was likely caused during the unpacking process. So it can’t be undone. 5eV can be enough to damage a piece of electronics. By comparison, if you generate enough of a charge to create a spark when you touch a light switch, it’s likely closer to 20,000 eV (but low amperage). You can’t feel 5eV.
So the issue is not just shielding, it’s shielding combined with people who don’t think about ESD (that is 99% of normal consumers) and unpack their new trainer wearing one of the most electrostatic substances: Lycra bicycle shorts. We get our trainers shipped to us, get them in the mail, and immediately change into our bicycle shorts, athletic shirts and socks eager to check it out and start riding as soon as we get our bike attached to it. And in doing so, we set up our devices for ESDisaster. Our shorts create a charge, and discharge it to the (admittingly poorly) shielded device while we’re setting it up. And usually, the immediate result will be: nothing. ES Damage doesn’t show for days, even weeks, depending on the components damaged and the extent. Eventually the damaged component causes another component, and another.
You don’t (I hope) open the packaging to your Tvs, Iphones, laptops, bluetooth speakers, and coffee makers in bicycle shorts.
So why aren’t we seeing this problem reported for other brands of trainers?
i’m not a techy but. If i look at my tacx neo its allmost all plastic outside.
if i look at the kickr they have a very heavy metal base construction. Maybe this helps not so much vs ESD.
a friend said. wahoo is a great company with nice tools with awesome features but they need to work on hardware reliabilty 🙂
Well, to answer that in any way other than a hypothetical, I’d have to buy a TacX and tear it down to find out.
But I’ll wager a guess. 2 actually.
1. The Wahoo Kickr Core is made of metal, and metal allows for a charge to be conducted from the legs and frame.
2. The packaging is Styrofoam, versus cardboard with the rest of them.
Now, neither of these SHOULD be a concern, however they are. And the reason has to be improper shielding/grounding of a critical component, presumably in the logic board. Can we mitigate the risk of damage ? Of course. We can wear clothes that don’t carry static charge when we unpackage our new trainers, avoid shuffling across carpeted floors, and even ground ourselves out when we unpack it with either a grounding strip or a touching a piece of metal to prevent a buildup. My point above was that we cannot REPAIR ESD once it’s happened, but we can prevent it from occurring in the first place.
But this does not solve the original issue which is apparently, improper shielding or grounding.
Anyone else have issues with the Kickr Core connecting to a Wahoo Bolt? The initial pairing would take ~30 seconds, then the connection would drop for awhile. After 15 to 30 minutes of spinning with a bad connection, drops would be minimal.
I originally thought it was my set up but after wasting 15-30 minutes every time I tried using the Core, I thought I would do some investigating. I don’t see anyone else complain about this here. Just a lot of fried boards, clicking and bad bearings.
@all
Just a Little follow Up.
Trying to get m Money Back from Shops, where i ordered a kickr core and it isnt available for Month, and the second Order which was fullfilled with a defective core.
So im a happ tacx neo owner now.
It works flawless. Change to a new Chain and now its allmost noiseless. I would even consider doing a workout in the middle of the night.
Actually, one Thing which is really nice ist the Roadfeeling in Zwift. It is netter then i ever thought.
Btw. To even get it more quit i Put the whole Setup in a wooden Plate with half Cut tennis balls underneath this helps reduce any Vibration to Zero.
Im not very much surprised that their arent any core available because wahoo is Killing their kickr 18 Sales with it.
Another followup –
I picked up the replacement Kickr Core on Friday night and set it up today. When I started to spin, it makes a rubbing, scraping, or grinding noise whenever the flywheel is turning. That can’t be normal, so it looks like I got another defective unit.
I made a video and sent it to Wahoo support. I hope their solution isn’t to send me yet another one. It’s a bit of a hassle to take the cassette off and on, box up the defective unit, take it to FedEx for return shipping, pick up the new unit at a different UPS location, blah blah. So unless there is an extremely easy fix to this problem, I’m giving up on Wahoo. Fortunately, I have not sent the original unit back, so I’ll return that to REI and get my money back and return the defective replacement unit to Wahoo.
Many thanks for this great review.
Do you know if the Kickr Core has a temperature range for normal operation? I’ve looked on the Wahoo site, but can’t find anything. I use my trainer in the garage and, occasionally here in the UK, the temperature in the garage can drop to around 2 degrees Centigrade and I’m wondering if this would be a problem?
Sorry, just seen another post that asks a similar question that you answered.
Update on my multi-Core saga…
Got Kicker Core #3 on Friday. I was still using my original Core (#1) b/c the first replacement (Core #2) had issues immediately upon using (odd sound of two stones rubbing against each other), so I sent it back.
Core #3 seems to be working fine. I’ve done three rides so far. It has a freewheel sound that the other two did not have..think of a Chris King-like buzz. I’m still keeping Core #1 JUUUUSSST to be sure Core #3 is ok. When I get another bike back from the shop (long story) I may run them together to make sure that power is correctly being sent on Core #3. At times it feels easier than I expect.
Hello Ray and Readers, I am about to order the Kickr Core. Considering the issues described above, should I consider to postpone my order and to wait 6/8 weeks until problems are fixed? I had the dealer on the phone last week and he told me that there is no issue with the core second generation … I am a little bit puzzled. Thank you for your response
I don’t think anyone can honestly give you a usable answer there.
Wahoo says that 97% of people this year are just fine. And honestly, I think I believe them. I also think people are vastly underestimating just how many units Wahoo is shipping.
But, I also believe that some people are killing 2-3 units because of the static electricity. I don’t have a good feeling on whether or not the power supply bits has really solved it (I’d guess it’s mostly solved it, but not entirely).
Put it this way, if my Dad wanted to get a trainer, he’d probably be in this price point and I’d probably recommend the CORE – but…I’d also tell him not to put it on a carpeted room and shuffle his way to it in just socks. 🙂
Seems to me that the obvious thing to do is to put a grounding strap on the bike or the trainer itself if this is a concern. While it shouldn’t be required, it should reduce any risk of failure due to static electricity.
Louis
Ray,
Does the ESD issue affect solely the Core or is it present in the Kickr 18 as well?
After seeing Ray’s video with Wahoo CEO I asked my Wahoo Support contact if my THIRD Kickr Core was susceptible to ESD. His response was that unless the trainer was in a super dry location on carpet, I “should” be OK. Like Ray says..probably don’t want to adjust the trainer after walking on carpet with fuzzy socks. Additionally, a grounding strap is also a decent preventative measure — I do that with any costly electronic equipment.
All said and done, I am enjoying the Kickr Core. I wish I didn’t have to go through the hassle of getting new units and shipping the old units back, but at least Wahoo didn’t stonewall me
Thank you Ray for your quick response.
Originaly I was waiting for a Taxc neo bike. After the new release date (end of february for the moment) , I changed my mind … the wahoo core could be a good alternative and why not buying the neo bike in 1 year when all the issues/problem due to early release will be solved.
I ordered my Kickr Core in Nov and finally just got it set up (I had a bike problem that had to be worked out with the manufacturer). I have 700c x 38 tires on my gravel bike and am finding the rear axle around 2 cm lower than the front axle on the wheel. Has anyone else seen this?
Hi!
Will the Kickr have the same bluetooth limitation when connecting with the Apple TV as the Core? In other words, does the Kickr require multiple connections to transmit power, speed and cadence, or is it somehow integrated into one signal?
Yes, The all Kickr models only transmit Power. The Cadence is a separate device to connect. So you have 2 devices used with any Wahoo trainer.
If you plan to connect Heart Rate as a 3rd metric, you must use the Zwift Companion app to add it (and get past the direct device count limitation within the ATV).
Can anyone comment if im experiencing a Zwift or Kickr issue?
When doing a workout and doing intervals- say pushing 450watts for 45 seconds – then it drops down to a recovery – which is 130 watts – the kickr sometimes won’t spin easy into the recovery.
I am unable to move the damn crank and i can only get out of it by getting out of ERG mode.
Doesn’t always happen but it does.
This happens to me occasionally with Sufferfest (using ANT+). Most of the time it’s just a delay in “not letting go” but I have had it “lock up” on rare occasion. I just chalk it up to technology gremlins and move on.
Hi!
Thanks for the great work!
Regarding the power meter comparisons, isn’t there likely to be a drivetrain efficiency loss of around15-20 W? So even if you consider a stated 1-2% accuracy, wouldn’t pedal or crank arm power meter results be expected to show consistently higher numbers (unless Wahoo apply some kind of default value of drivetrain loss to their power numbers to compensate)?
I have Vector 3 and a Kick Core, and the values on e.g. 20 minute power is usually only about 1-2 W off. Just seems a bit odd to me, considering the expected 15-20 W drivetrain losses…
Any thoughts that could make more sense of this too good matching of data?
Thanks,
Jonathan
same here.
tacx neo with favero assioma around 2-3watt on 200watt average difference. so no way their is a 20 watt loss in drivetrain or the tacx is having this included.
bye
I have done around 200km on my new Wahoo Core in ERG mode it has locked up once or twice which is very annoying. But on the noise it’s not silent it’s hard to tell how loud it’s met to be but I have a new chain and a new cassette and chain is lined in the middle in the top chain ring and around 150watts to 200watts I would get around 70-80Db noise what does everyone else get?
I know it’s not much but was thinking it was silent 🙂
If you’re getting 70-80db, something is amiss.
You should be in the low 60’s at best, depending on how clean your drivetrain is. There may be something wrong with your CORE, or, perhaps it’s just the drivetrain – again, hard to know from the text.
Do check out this: link to dcrainmaker.com
So, for about the same money, I can get either a TacX 2 Neo, or the Kickr Core and Kickr Climb, and then the CT points back to cover 2/3 of a Kickr Headwind.
I was going to get the TacX Neo 1st gen, but just as I was ready to pull the trigger, CT stopped selling them. So, the question is:
Is the experience of the TacX Neo 2 THAT much better than the Kickr Core/Climb/Headwind combo ?
As from my Tacx Experience.
The Neo 1 is just fine. really quiet and with new chain and well set allmost not disturbing at all.
Roadfeeling is a very nice Feature but also a disadvantage in racing so i turned it of.
i think the climb is a very cool feature which is missing with the neo. While racing zwift u will earlier know when to get out of the saddle and push a bigger gear. i think this is a big help in feeling the hills and training different muscles.
i hope for u the wahoo stuff works. i didnt had the luck to get a working core 🙁
Btw. any FAN is must have i will sonn buy a second FAN 🙂
I really wanted the TacX Neo 1, but unfortunately CT stopped selling it. And given that the new Neo 2 is almost $400 more expensive than the original, it’s just not the deal that the Kickr/Climb/Headwind is…
I found the Climb to be kind of jerky as it moved. it was not smooth enough to even pretend to be climbing so I returned it.
I like the Climb mostly for the ability to change the angle when I want and less for the auto change that occurs in Zwift.
Interesting. Can you tell me how long ago you purchased it ? I’m curious if that’s something that could’ve been smoothed out with a firmware update.
It’s actually more of an app thing to be honest.
I talk about it within the CLIMB review. For example, FulGaz does some awesome work here and it feels amazing. Other apps? Less so.
I USED to be a hardcore climber (lived in CA, did Palomar every weekend that I could (almost identical specs to L’Alpe d’Huez) but then I got transferred to NC and ended up retiring here and there are NO hills. (my last ride from home to Myrtle beach and back had less than 100 feet in elevation change over almost 100 miles) so I thought that maybe the Climb would be effective for simulating that workload. But I also prefer Sufferfest over Zwift as I like their multidisciplined training program. Do you or anyone else around here have any experience using Sufferfest and the Climb ?
Appreciate the reply Ray. I’ll go check that out.
So I know this is almost off topic – but in your mind , if you had $1500 US to spend on a trainer setup, would you go new TacX or Kickr Core/Climb combo for a ‘do it once and forget it’ kind of purchase ?
That’s tough. I think the NEO (1 or 2) is a better overall trainer, but not by much. Whereas I think the combo is a better and more entertaining deal for 95% of cyclists.
If someone banished me to a shed with only one trainer, I’d probably spend 5 hours deciding, but would likely end up with the combo over just the NEO, purely due to entertainment factor.
I use the Climb with Sufferfest. It does not appear to have any ability to control the Climb but I’m okay with that. I mostly use the Climb manually to adjust position on longer training sessions. It is much more useful for this purpose than some might think. Even when I ride on Zwift, I’ll frequently put it in manual mode.
I also prefer Sufferfest for the same reasons.
I forgot to mention that I know I’ve seen a posting or email from Sufferfest indicating their intent to support the Climb. However, TrainerRoad supports the Climb and I just don’t see a whole lot of advantage in having it automatically change when the power changes. It makes a lot of sense on Zwift but less so with a structured workout. YMMV.
Move to either Boone or Asheville. Both beautiful and good cycling
Move to either Boone or Asheville. Both beautiful and good cycling
Sufferfest with the climb:
link to support.thesufferfest.com
When the quality control factor is added in for both Wahoo and TacX (and my body weight for the climb which is about 200 lbs) does the combo still make sense, or go with the TacX
(Side note: A company called ‘competitivecyclist’ is selling the TacX Neo 1stgen for $1050 , but I’ve never heard of them. Anyone have any experience with them, particularly towards their customer service ?)
Thanks for the info Eli! Glad to see I can suffer at multiple angles now!
Just a heads up, Kickr Climb works perfectly well with Sufferfest climbing & base videos. Have a look at link to support.thesufferfest.com for more info. I got a Climb a few weeks ago and am loving it. Make sure your in ERG mode and suffering with one of the supported videos.
Competitive Cyclist is legit. Clever Training had NEO1’s too for about that same price, but eventually sold through them all (and Tacx isn’t making them anymore).
As for quality control factor – honestly, there’s no absolute answer there. Would I personally be concerned about for a new purchase? No. Might you still get bit? Maybe. Will Wahoo sort things out quickly and at no-cost? Yes. Will it suck for a few days or a week? Only if you have lots of snow.
I wish I had a better answer there. :-/
There it is. And explains why I’m not seeing it since I’m usually ANT+ on my PC. I’ll have to give it a go on my iPad.
Thanks DC for your reply I have cleaned my drive train I don’t think I will get in the 60db but it’s not too bad just extra crank of the PC volume it does seem to be working well for me.
Hope there is not an issue I don’t really want to return it having too much fun 🙂
Awesome review, going to purchase the core Kickr based on this review thanks.
For what it’s worth, if possible, maybe check which batch a Kickr came from before purchasing one. After two rides, mine had the loose screw issue which caused a grinding noise (bike shop fixed that within a couple of days) and now, after a couple of months, has the circuit board issue where it’s not registering any power or giving any resistance (happened while I was on the bike). I’m starting to think Wahoo should have recalled some units if they know which batches are prone to failing. Maybe then I wouldn’t be looking at more than a week without riding.
Hey Ray, REI started their spring members sale today (20% off one full item). I also have $110 in dividends.. so that means I can get the Kicker Core for less than $650. But I’m afraid I’m getting a lemon considering people are still having problems with it. I’m coming from a 3 year old Tacx Vortex (so far so good, but the noise……..). What do you think?
I just took advantage of the REI 20% on a CycleOps H2. All things being equal, I would have gotten a Core but all things aren’t equal. I bought a Tacx Flux a year & a half ago. The problems with the Core remind me of my experience with the Flux. I’m not putting myself through that again. I don’t want to be another beta tester for a trainer company.
Hi,
Have u compared the Core with the Flux 2, which is quieter and does the larger flywheel of the Flux 2 make a big difference? I’m totally torn between the two.
Regards
Marc
Does the Kickr Core comes with a crank arm cadence sensor? Do you need to have anything to record cadence then? I’m pretty annoyed that cadence isn’t recorded on the Core, it’s not exactly cheap, but if it does/can then I’m sold!
No, the Core does not include any cadence sensor. That is one place they saved money. You will need to provide one of your own if you plan to have and use cadence.
Thanks for the review. Quick question: is the KICKR CORE compatible with 12 speed cassettes? I have the SRAM Force etap AXS on my bike. If not, any adapters that might do the trick?
I don’t believe they’re shipping them (adapters) yet, still. I vaguely thought they were targeting June.
Been using a new Kickr Core with Zwift for a few weeks now. Last night for the first time I chose a course that had some serious for me inclines. Occasionally hitting 14-16% and I managed to get my power up to 531 watts peak.
My question is how is this suppose to feel when on the core putting out this kind of effort? I noticed what felt like a bit of slipping during the pedal strokes. It kinda felt like the resistance was pulsing with each stroke.
Hard to explain but since this is my first smart trainer, I have no idea what is normal.
Hi,
Currently I am using a Elite Direto trainer and want to shift to Kickr Core. Is it a wise decision to change the trainer?
Please guide.
Cheers,
Himanshu
Excellent and thorough review.
I have a suggestion/request for a detailed comparison that you could do brilliantly. I know there was rumor that Zwift maybe coming out with their own bike (closely resembling a spin bike) and it seems some of the bigger spin bike manufacturers are getting into the virtual training game as well. With this, I think there is an increasing need to know if spin bikes and trainers are on equal ground as far as power goes. For instance, does it require the same effort to put out 300 watts on each, or is one harder than the other.
The Keiser M3i spin bike comes with a converter that allows uploading power and cadence to Zwift and other programs. This is what I’m currently using, however I recently tested a Wahoo Kickr in a local bike shop and it seemed easier to maintain a higher wattage on the trainer than the spin bike. Obviously, this is my opinion on one very short test, so I could be totally wrong. I will say that the Keiser is a great ride, very stable and produces consistent, steady wattage.
I’d love to see you do a comparison between spin bikes and trainers to see if they are similar as far as power output. Would you consider doing a comparison between a Keiser spin bike and the Wahoo Kickr?
Thanks for the great reviews and the information you are sharing here.