Heads up – Massive Black Friday Deals List is Live!!! The Garmin Fenix 8 is $250 off (even the Fenix 8 Pro is $100 off!), the Apple Watch Ultra 3 is on sale, the Garmin inReach Mini 2 is $249, the GoPro Hero 13 Black, DJI NEO, and a ton of other brands/deals, including Wahoo, Oura, Whoop, Polar, Samsung, Google, and more than 100 sports tech deals here!
The Week in Review is a collection of both all the goodness I’ve written during the past week around the internet, as well as a small pile of links I found interesting – generally endurance sports related. I’ve often wondered what to do with all of the coolness that people write, and while I share a lot of it on Twitter and Facebook, this is a better forum for sending it on to y’all. Most times these different streams don’t overlap, so be on the lookout at all these places for good stuff!
So with that, let’s get into the action!
DCRainmaker.com posts in the past week:
Here’s all the goodness that ended up on the main page of DCRainmaker.com this past week.
The fitness companies want you to lose weight. And spend some money. Albeit, less money than you would have had to last week. The non-Garmin ones kicked off today, joining Garmin. Here are all the weight scales
Note that in general for weight scales I recommend you pick whichever one you’re on already from a platform standpoint. Given these prices are all fairly similar, it’s less of a chore to decide. Also, note that normally I wouldn’t recommend the Garmin one (simply because of price) unless you really wanted the additional metrics, but at this price point, it’s probably worth it to not have to deal with the conversion mess of trying to get the Withings and Fitbit data into Garmin Connect.
If you have no loyalties to any of the above brands (meaning, you don’t already have a device from them), then I’d likely get the Withings one given the price point and it has the most connectivity to other platforms than any other brand.
While we’re on the sales front, Garmin has a bunch of other devices on sale, largely activity trackers in various forms:
Product
Sale Price
Amazon
Other site
Sale Notes
Adobe Creative Cloud Pro (12 Months) - $389 off (50% off!)
As a side note, you can cancel and take advantage of this. Which, is precisely what I did when I realized my existing plan was gonna be stupid expensive. In any case, I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Pro suite for a lot of what I do.
We did see lower just back in July, at $199. So I'd probably hold out a bit more here. Assuming that happens, you can't beat this watch at this price point (heck,not even at $226 either).
Perhaps this deal will get better, but right now at $20 off...nah. Given the price of the Garmin Epix Pro has flirted into the $429 range a bit over the past few days (and is a vastly better watch), this needs to drop down closer to $299 to be worth picking up during Black Friday pricing.
⚡ This is an awesome deal. I use my iPad primarily for TrainerRoad as well as Zwift when not with a larger display. I also occasionally use it for other apps, namely Indievelo, Kinomap, Rouvy, and Peloton. But I pretty much test every smart trainer app on it. For all these cycling apps, the graphics capabilities is really pretty irrelevant, so having the absolute top-end/latest model won't make any difference. I prefer the budget options.
These are the just-released AirPod Pro 3, with optical heart rate sensors in them. These are my daily-driver headphones these days, and even more notably, the heart rate accuracy is incredibly good in these.
This is the first major sale for the Apple Watch SE 3, which came out just 2 months ago. It's essentially Apple's 'budget' offering, yet it still has all the same software features as a higher-end Apple Watch Series 11, as long as the hardware permits.
This is the first time we've seen the Apple Watch Ultra 3 on sale, and given it's $100 off, that tends to be the typical sale price for the holidays/Black Friday for the current/just-released version.
This is the singular piece of apparel that's lasted the longest in my collection - some 15-16 years of buying the same socks. Heck, some of them are probably half that old. EIther way, this be the ones I use. Love them (well, except for hiking and trail running, then I use other stuff that goes higher). I'm wearring them as I wrote this post too.
This is a great price for this watch. Note though that technically speaking, this is a price reduction (took effect Nov 14th following the launch of the Pace 4). Most companies would first call it a sale, then make that sale price the new price as a price reduction. But COROS often beats to a different drum. Kudos on being upfront about the reduction though!
This is a great price for this watch. Note though that technically speaking, this is a price reduction (took effect Nov 14th following the launch of the Pace 4). Most companies would first call it a sale, then make that sale price the new price as a price reduction. But COROS often beats to a different drum. Kudos on being upfront about the reduction though!
This is last year's model. And sure, the Action 6 came out 48 hours ago, but honestly, the initial rection hasn't been kind there. I just started testing it, so more to come very shortly.
Look, don't buy this drone. This is the drone that never should have left the napkin at the lunch table at DJI's HQ. The unit breaks easily (as I, and many others found out), and doesn't really do anything super well. Literally, buy any other DJI drone except htis one...you're welcome.
⚡ This is a great little drone as your first drone, especially for sports usage, where it'll do an astonishing job following you (running, cycling, etc...). And, you can crash it a gazillion times without any problem.
NOTE: This is not sold by DJI directly via Amazon. DJI itself is NOT selling the OSMO 360 in the US, and WILL NOT support/repair it in the US. That said, it's a solid deal if you're ok with those risks.
This is Elite's previous-gen trainer, but it's still a reliable workhorse. This bundle is paired with the Zwift Cog/Click, though, you can also buy it without a cassette for the same price.
These is the new model just released this past summer with stronger anti-scratch resistance (I even dragged it down a textured concrete pool desk, lens-down, to show this).
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro MX dual-sided power meter pedals deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing constantly along with the PRO RS pedals. Note for US folks: Favero does include all taxes and tarrifs in the price.
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro RS dual-sided power meter pedals having their first sale yet. This deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing, and will likely pick up another set in this sale. Note for US folks: Favero does include all taxes and tarrifs in the price.
FeedBack Sports Pro Mechanic Bike Repair Stand - $50 Off
We use this stand for both any of the work we do on any of our bikes (well, except the cargo bike). Super quick and easy to take out when we need it. Note: Feedback Sports is a DC Rainmaker Partner
FeedBack Sports Pro Mechanic HD Bike Repair Stand - $55 Off
I've got this setup, andit's basically got almost everything I need for regular/daily bike maintenance across virtually all of my bikes. Plus, in theory I can keep things tidy in that carrying case....I mean, if I were to actually put all the tools back in it. Note: Feedback Sports is a DC Rainmaker Partner
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price we've seen on this watch to date. This is their first full smartwatch focused on kids activity tracking and gamification.
⚡ This is the go-to sale price for the Fitbit Charge 6. It happens often, but it still doesn't take away from the fast that it's argueably the best bang for your buck fitness tracker out there.
If you're looking for a simple and inexpensive activity tracker, you won't go wrong with a Fitbit (or this Inspire 3). It's got literally all the same software features in the Fitbit app as a higher-end Google Pixel Watch or other Fitbit device, except...just tiny.
⚡ This is Garmin's newest kids-focused and LTE connected smart watch. Our three daughters have been using it for about two months now, after using the original Bounce 1 for years. This is a *massive* upgrade over the Bounce 1, both in features/hardware, but frankly also battery life. My review should be up next week, but if you've got any questions drop them in the comments below.
This is the activity tracker that both of our oldest daughters have used for years (age 8 & 9), as well as most of their friends now. They/we all like it. Check out my full in-depth review for all my thoughts. That said, the new Bounce 2 came out two months ago, and while my review isn't out yet, it's a far better product. But, quite a bit more too. The TLDR on that review will be that it's the best kids smartwatch/tracker to date (for both parents and kids), but obviously will cost you $100 more.
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market.
Garmin Descent MK3i (Dive watch with air integration) - $250 off!
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market. The 'i' version (MK3i) means that you can connect it to an air tank monitor transmitter pod.
⚡This is a very solid deal, and is still one of the best bike computers Garmin has ever made, especially when you look at the battery side of things (it lasts far longer than the Edge 1050).
⚡At $249, it's pretty much impossible to beat this deal in terms of bike computers. There's no competitive option that beats it on features/battery/etc at this price, or frankly anywhere near it. Sure, it doesn't have a touchscreen, but it's not as bad as it used to be (I did a stint on it this winter for a week or so, and was fine).
⚡⚡This is the lowest price we've seen on the Garmin Edge 540 Solar to date, which has gained virtually all of the new Garmin Edge 1050 features as well. And notably, lower than the Edge 540 without solar (which is kinda silly, but hey, win for us!).
This is the lowest price we've seen on this to date. The Enduro 3 is simply the Fenix 8 with a MIP/Solar display (but without the scuba or voice calling features). It gets all the Fenix 8 features and updates otherwise.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support. Note: Availability on this deal fluctuates, just keep checking back, I'm sure it'll pop back again (it always does).
⚡⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡⚡ This is very unexpected, and is an Amazon-specific deal, not a Garmin-supported one. Thus, I expect it won't last more than minutes/hours. Grab it while you can! [Update: This keeps fluttering back and forth, just keep checking!]
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
As a general rule, the Fenix E is the watch that literally nobody is buying, and makes no sense at higher prices. The hardware is simply the Epix Gen 2 with Fenix stamped on it. That watch is going for $400, though I expect we'll see it down to $300 over Black Friday. However, one *KEY* difference with the Fenix E, is that it includes all of the software features of the newer Fenix 8, whereas the Epix Gen 2 doesn't get all the new software features. Otherwise, save your $200.
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price on the Forerunner 265, which was recently replaced by the Forerunner 570 (but at nearly twice this price). What's fascinating about this sale price, is it's well beyond the usual sale prices for Garmin for this product. This pricing is 100% an Kansas-themed 'Hello!' to COROS and their just released COROS Pace 4 at $249.
The Foreurnner 55 is a great option if you simply don't want to spend a ton, but still want a super-capable runners watch (and general activity/sleep tracking watch). I've heard a lot of you get it for teenagers that run, as a great/inexpensive way to track their runs, and still be a good everyday watch.
⚡ This is the lowest price to date on the Forerunner 965, which is logical given the Forerunner 970 came out this past spring (which essentialy adds a flashlight and some other running metrics/features).
⚡ This is a very unexpected sale, just launched, on this very new watch, which is Garmin's top of the line Forerunner watch with virtually all the same software features as the Fenix 8 (but in a plastic case and without the diving features).
The Garmin Inded BPM is Garmin's medically certified blood pressure monitor. It integrates directly into your Garmin Connect account. I use it on occasion as a comparison for wearables, and it works just fine (obviously it's already medically certified by the FDA, so I say 'works' here in the sense of usability/functionality/etc...).
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, with both an AMOLED and Solar variants. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, and the Solar edition in particular has 'unlimited' battery life in certain scenarios. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
This is Garmin's radar without the light, so it's a bit smaller as a result. Same radar tech though, and compatible with Garmin/COROS/Hammerhead/Wahoo bike computers.
This is Garmin's standalone radar+taillight option, and $149 is pretty much the standard sale-price. Even despite all the new radars out there, this remains the most accurate option on the market. Now, only if Garmin would just re-release it with USB-C. C'Mon Garmin...maybe next year?
This is the first time this product has been on sale, since launching last spring. I'd argue it could have used a $100 off sale...but hey...they don't consult me.
⚡ The Garmin Venu 4 just came out two months ago, and one of the big ticket features is the LED flashlight built-in. However, it's also got a ton of other new features, as Garmin merged the codebase with the Forerunner/Fenix series, resulting in a boatload of added things like Training Readiness, Acute Load, and more.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen on the newest product in the entire Garmin Holiday 2025 sale lineup. This is basically a blend of a Forerunner 970, Venu 4, and Fenix 8...but super thin. It's argueably one of the best deals here at $599, though, Garmin is still clearly trying to figure out the right pricing to drive purchases.
⚡ This is the first time we've seen the Vivoactive 6 on sale, which is essentially a Venu 4, but without the voice/calling/ECG features (and a few other tidbits). It's probably one of the best deals in Garmin's lineup (sale or otherwise).
⚡ This is the lowest price we've ever seen for this. This is my defacto satellite communicator when out of coverage area, and I've used it on a number of major treks over the past two years when well outside of cellular service, both in a 24x7 tracking mode for friends and family, but also there in case of emergency. Would strongly recommend for anyone doing anything in the wilderness.
This came out last fall, and is the second time this has been discounted, but now to the lowest price to date. The key difference with the new Plus model is that it adds the ability to send photos and voice messenges via satellite. I've used it a bit, and it's pretty cool because it makes it a lot faster to just say something rather than type it out, but the $499 price seemed excessive. $399 makes it slightly more palatable.
This is GoPro's budget option, which includes a full color touchscreen on the back as well. The main benefit is it's super small, but note it's not quite in the same quality ballpark as their higher-end cameras. If you want size and GoPro ecosystem on a budget, this is an option. But with the DJI Action 4 just $20 more than $199, that offers notably better quality.
We have more Nest cam's than I can count. No really, we have half a dozen at the DCR Cave alone, plus more at home. We love them. Nest Cam's really only go on sale about 1-2x per year.
The newer Pixel Watch 4 came out back in October. I see the Pixel Watch 4 as a pretty substantial hardware upgrade over the Pixel Watch 3, notably due to satellite SOS, as well as a user-replaceable battery.
This has become one of my favorite drones, given it's tiny size (fits in my running shorts pockets) and ease of use. Plus, you can crash the crap out of it (hundreds of times for me and my wife) without any issues. This combo includes an extra battery and fast charger.
⚡ This is a solid deal on a solid drone, and one of the two main ones I use when taking videos of myself hiking or running. This includes the two extra batteries as well as the fast charger (so 3 batteries total).
This is one of the other more popular display-laden rowing machines. I haven't tried this, but my sports-tech reviewing buddy DesFit has (linked at side) and liked it.
⚡ This just came out this past August, and is a great little unit. The pod isn't quite as tiny as the Go 3S, but the features and quality are a huge step up (especially the removable MicroSD card).
This is one of the best 360 action cams on the market, alongside the GoPro Max 2 (both have their pros and cons, check out my full comparison guide linked).
This is one of the most popular indoor trainer fan companies out there, which rivals the Wahoo Headwind fan but cost a fraction of the price. Of course, it lacks ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but realistically if you really want that you can add a smart outlet for $10 to toggle it on/off from your phone if need be. It's one of the ones in my rotation.
⚡ Let's be honest: This place runs on Nespresso (or, well, the knock-off pods we buy). But, the machine is Nespresso. Without it, reviews most definitely would not get done (and certainly not on time). This is a pretty sweet deal if you ask me!
Ooni Karu 12 Multi-Fuel Outdoor Pizza Oven - $120 off
I use the Fyra 12 (with wood pellets), and love it. The Karu 12 is essentialyl the newer version of that, and there's both a gas-only version, and a multi-fuel option (gas or wood). Love it!
I use Philips Hue stuff all over the DCR Cave/Studio for lighting, both obviously colorful stuff in the background of shots, but also just for automation of the lights. Same goes at home. Love it (mainly when it's on sale like now). Starter packs are a good place to begin, and then I love the light strips (such as pictured).
⚡The Pixel Watch 4 LTE includes satellite SOS connectivity, even if you don't activate a cellular plan on it. I'd strongly recommend getting the LTE version for $50 more, to future-proof you a bit there (or, to save your bacon in the woods).
This is a great dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart (with two Bluetooth Smart connections) chest strap that you'll often find me using as a reference strap in heart rate sensor testing. We only tend to see deals on it around Black Friday, always topping out around 20%.
If you're looking for a good solid high-quality strap, that does both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, for a reasonable price...look no further than the Polar H9
These are the main gels I use when I don't need the bigger 90g ones. So for example doing something a bit shorter where I don't want to carry the bigger 90g packs (mainly running). Note: Precision Fuel & Hydration is a DC Rainmaker partner
Precision Fuel & Hydration PF90 Energy Gels 10pkg - 15% OFF
I primarily use these 90g packs on all my adventures, roughly doing 90g/hour for cycling/trail running/hiking/etc... Note: Precision Fuel & Hydration is a DC Rainmaker partner
We have a few SONOS speakers around the house and DCR Cave (the Ikea variants at DCR Cave), but by far our favorite is the Roam, which we take outdoors into the garden during the summer, beach vacations, AirBNB's, etc... It has a battery in it, and also connects to both WiFi and Bluetooth. Love, love, love. I think the main reason I love it, is that we heavily use it in summer, so...kinda reminds me of summer.
⚡This is one of the two the high speed drives types I use to store the footage I'm actively video editing. I typically buy the 2TB and 4TB ones, and then eventually offload the footage onto a NAS array when I'm done.
Sony Alpha 7 IV Full-frame Mirrorless Camera w/ 28-70mm Zoom - $400 offThis is the main camera I use for still photography and video b-roll. I semi-recently wrote about all the photography gear I use, linked at side here.
Suunto Aqua Swimming Open-Ear Bluetooth Headphones - 22% off!
This is a very solid deal. It's got virtually all the software features of Suunto's higher-end watches (minus the app store), and just came out this past May.
While the new Suunto Vertical 2 just came out a month ago, if you wanted to stock-up on MIP-based display watches before they disappear, here's your chance. This is also the lowest price we've ever seen on the Vertical 1, which is otherwise still a very soild watch.
I have bigger Synology NAS units at the DCR Studio/Office, but I also have a smaller unit (this one) that I use to keep various piles of data here too. I like the Synology stuff, as it's generally quite dependable.
This is the go-to sales price for the NEO 2T, though has become more frequent over the past year. It's still an incredible trainer, and is the top-end non-moving trainer from Garmin/Tacx.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen to date on the Tacx NEO 3M, and finally takes it down to a semi-logical price (compared to it's competitors). This is a good buy, and obviously, given it's only a year old, I definitely don't expectany sort of new version of this anytime soon (the last NEO series unit was about 5 years between versions).
This is another very popular fan that people use for indoor training/cycling, especially due to inclusion of the remote and remote holder to clasp on your handlebars.
This simulates the up and down motion on Wahoo KICKR trainers moving your bike up and down. Also, there's virtually no product except SNAP, that Wahoo likes to put on sale more. Wouldn't be a sale around here unless this thing was discounted.
⚡ This is a very solid deal for this bike, and the lowest price to date. I actually like the KICKR BIKE SHIFT more than the higher-end KICKR BIKE V2/Pro, mainly because it's both quiter, and seems to be more resillient to issues (less complex design).
⚡ ⚡ This is a very very good deal, for the KICKR CORE 2 that just came out two months ago. My full review was just published last week after an absolute boatlod of riding, and even buying an extra unit to validate things. This model is the one with the Zwift Cog/Click, whereas the 11sp cassette model is also the same price.
⚡ ⚡ This is a very very good deal, for the KICKR CORE 2 that just came out two months ago. My full review was just published last week after an absolute boatlod of riding, and even buying an extra unit to validate things. This model is the one with the Zwift Cog/Click, whereas the 11sp cassette model is also the same price.
⚡This is actually the lowest price we've ever seen on the KICKR V6. Wahoo says we won't see a new top-end KICKR this fall, with them instead focusing on the new KICKR Bike Pro, KICKR CORE 2, and all their new bike computers/radar/etc...
Finally, note that Garmin permanently dropped the price of their Fenix3 series this past week (all models) by $50. Though, not substantially. Given CES is nearly upon us (this week!), I don’t think this barely tangible drop is worth it.
YouTube Videos I Published:
Here’s some YouTube goodness that I published this past week:
Stuff that I found interesting around the interwebs:
Here’s a not-so-small smattering of all the random things that I stumbled on while doing my civic duty to find the end of the Internet.
1) Fitbit has dropped its lawsuit against Jawbone: Not that it really mattered much, Jawbone isn’t actually a player in this game anymore. Sure, they could always announce something this week at CES, but given their current financial predicament, I wouldn’t expect the result to be any different.
4) Training log survey: The folks behind the popular (and free) Golden Cheetah are doing a survey to gather feedback on features. Even if you’re not a user today, they’re looking for how you use your training platforms as a way to make their platform more user-friendly (it’s open-source and free, so no commercial interest here from them). One of my main critiques (ok, my only critique) of the platform has been the user-friendly aspect, so hopefully this will help!
5) US State Department Races Around The World: This was actually more interesting than I expected it to be, and more impressive too, both in numbers of participants in various countries and the diversity of countries that put on races. (via friends at State)
6) Bike Tech Hack Night (for DC folks): Cool stuff, it’s a cycling-focused bike related app/data/gadgets hacking night. It’s being hosted by the annual conference put on by the Transportation Research Board of the National Academies. Details in the link. (via Eli).
7) Apple yanks Withings products from Apple Store: Maybe it’s just me, but this seems like a perfectly reasonable response to getting sued. If I owned a store, and someone sued me, I certainly wouldn’t be keeping their products in there. Too bad though, because Withings makes great stuff. That said, I’m not sure this move hurts their wearables sales too much, but probably does impact their weight scale sales. (via Ian)
8) Training Peaks had 40 million uploads in 2016: I thought this stat was randomly interesting, along with knowing it had 25 million in 2015. Will have to dig around and see if other platforms have shared their total upload stats.
Sports Technology Software/Firmware Updates This Week:
Each week I quickly highlight some of the new firmware, app, software and website service updates that I see go out. If you’re a sports technology company and release an update – shoot me a quick note (just one liners are perfect, or Tweet it at me is even better) and I’ll make mention of it here. If I don’t know about it, I won’t be able to post about it. Sound good? Oh – and if you want to get a head start on things, this page is a great resource for watching Garmin firmware updates.
(I’m not aware of any updates that occurred in the past week for hardware. Seems everyone was – rightly – taking some time off!)
Re: Apple pulling Withings products….. can’t imagine that Nokia (Withings owner) is to happy at Apple (allegedly at the mo) stealing its IP. Then again Steve Jobs had quite a bit to say about stealing…..
Yeah, the whole lawsuit thing itself is interesting.
Though, I think that most in the industry would agree that software patents need an overhaul at this point (along with other patent types). Patents are being given for things that they shouldn’t be given for, and effectively being used to make money(hence the name patent troll).
Maybe TrainingPeaks might be telling porky perhaps, they told me they had 400 paid up coaches using there platform…from Australia, after I complained again to deaf ears of there pricing model over here at the moment it cost me $1-37 AUD for 1 USD making TrainingPeaks premium account a ridiculous price to pay after they more than doubled it last year
Well, 400 paid coaches is really only a fraction of the users. If you did simple math and assumed 10 clients per coach (many have far more), than that’s 4,000 paid users right there. Assuming coached clients likely upload more frequently, I’d say 5 workouts per week is reasonable.
So, 4,000*5*52 = 1 Million-ish right there. All of which ignores all the non-coached athletes (or, at least separate system). Still, I think that 400 number is low.
On the flipside, At 40mil a year, that works out to 110K uploads per day (roughly). Hmm, which, does seem like a lot. tThat implies having at least that many active users to make that work, probably 1.5x that in reality. Which, also seems like a heck of a lot of users.
I wonder if they are counting metrics such as weight and HRV that may be posted every day as an upload. The more connected services and apps could account for an increase, as well as a (slightly) increased user base.
I guess that individual file upload figures don’t mean a great deal in isolation and how you are defining users. Since the ability to automatically push files from Garmin Connect and others into TP it’s a no brainer to do it whether you are an ‘active user’ or not. I know that I’ve recommended to a good number of people to do that in case they decide to use TP in the future. Those uploads may never actually get looked at in TP currently
Likewise there are almost certainly a good number of duplicate uploads – I record rides for example on both an Edge and a Fenix 3 both of which end up on TP. You might be very guilty of that too Ray!
All my files still get pushed to TP despite me letting my Premium subscription lapse a few months ago partly down to the API changes and partly cost related, so am not the active user I used to be.
My use case for TrainingPeaks is also exactly as described by JulianM above. A while ago, I let my Premium subscription lapse, but all my activities are still being uploaded to TP via Garmin Connect – “just in case”. So presumably I am still being counted as a TP user in the numbers, even though I don’t actually make use of it.
So, as pointed out, how you define “user” is pretty important. What you really want to know is how many active users, or more importantly how many paying customers. As someone who regularly invests in early stage companies, I usually make an effort to dig as deeply into numbers as I can.
Ray, when can we expect new product announcements from you? Wednesday?
Also, do you think this will be a down year or bigger year in term of fitness products at CES?
CES officially kicks off on Thursday morning. But you’ll see most major fitness brands announcing on a blend of Wednesday and Thursday morning.
There’s press events starting Tuesday however, so some things from some brands will hit then, likely later in the evening closer to the first of the major semi-public press events that start then. I’ll have stuff trickling out starting Monday, but reaching full blast by Wednesday & Thursday morning.
I think the year will be about average, but with more noise. Meaning, you’ll see the big announcements you expect from the big companies, but will see lots of smaller announcements from smaller companies that you’ll have to sift through more than in the past. Take heart-rate stuff, I’ve got a folder full of companies pitching HR related products at CES this year, lots of HRV/RR type stuff too. Some of it is valid, and some of it is junk/unsupported. My job is to try and do that sifting.
Is the scale table outdated or does the Withings 50 still not support water percent, bone mass and muscle mass? Looking at the descriptions on Clever Training these metrics are supported but I tend to believe the information on this site so was not sure if I was missing something.
No, the older WS-50 doesn’t. My bet is that link is being redirected though on CT to the newer variant, since I think the WS-50 is no longer being made.
I’ve read your original review on both the Garmin and the 2 Withings scales and am still kind of undecided. I have a 630 but the only thing I need weight for in Connect is for the calorie burn and who knows how accurate that is anyway. I think I’d be fine with the Withings app and updating my weight occasionally on the watch or in Connect, I do use MFP but not consistently. Now that the Body Cardio has dropped to $86 I’m seriously thinking about getting that one instead of the Garmin. My main issue is that my bathroom is pretty small so my old Tanita scale sits under the bureau and I pull it out and put in the bathroom when I check my weight and then put it back. Being able to use one on the carpet would be much more convenient and it would get used more often. From the reviews of the Garmin it seems the Withings is much better at more than $40 cheaper. Is the reason for staying with one platform just to avoid having to use more than 1 app?
I’m with you – I have a Garmin watch, but I don’t mind to use two apps for recording activities and monitoring body composition. I don’t think I would even use a 3rd app to sync weight data to Garmin Connect; it just doesn’t matter to me at all. Working on carpet is the #1 reason I chose the Body Cardio over Garmin. With the huge price drop down to $87, I just had to click on the checkout button. Looking forward to getting the new toy!
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Re: Apple pulling Withings products….. can’t imagine that Nokia (Withings owner) is to happy at Apple (allegedly at the mo) stealing its IP. Then again Steve Jobs had quite a bit to say about stealing…..
Yeah, the whole lawsuit thing itself is interesting.
Though, I think that most in the industry would agree that software patents need an overhaul at this point (along with other patent types). Patents are being given for things that they shouldn’t be given for, and effectively being used to make money(hence the name patent troll).
Maybe TrainingPeaks might be telling porky perhaps, they told me they had 400 paid up coaches using there platform…from Australia, after I complained again to deaf ears of there pricing model over here at the moment it cost me $1-37 AUD for 1 USD making TrainingPeaks premium account a ridiculous price to pay after they more than doubled it last year
Well, 400 paid coaches is really only a fraction of the users. If you did simple math and assumed 10 clients per coach (many have far more), than that’s 4,000 paid users right there. Assuming coached clients likely upload more frequently, I’d say 5 workouts per week is reasonable.
So, 4,000*5*52 = 1 Million-ish right there. All of which ignores all the non-coached athletes (or, at least separate system). Still, I think that 400 number is low.
On the flipside, At 40mil a year, that works out to 110K uploads per day (roughly). Hmm, which, does seem like a lot. tThat implies having at least that many active users to make that work, probably 1.5x that in reality. Which, also seems like a heck of a lot of users.
No porky here. Just the cold hard results of a SQL statement testifying to the effort of thousands of athletes training hard all over the world.
I wonder if they are counting metrics such as weight and HRV that may be posted every day as an upload. The more connected services and apps could account for an increase, as well as a (slightly) increased user base.
If only Training Peaks / WKO4 could analyse Garmin multisport workouts properly. And deal with HRM-Swim data, too.
I guess that individual file upload figures don’t mean a great deal in isolation and how you are defining users. Since the ability to automatically push files from Garmin Connect and others into TP it’s a no brainer to do it whether you are an ‘active user’ or not. I know that I’ve recommended to a good number of people to do that in case they decide to use TP in the future. Those uploads may never actually get looked at in TP currently
Likewise there are almost certainly a good number of duplicate uploads – I record rides for example on both an Edge and a Fenix 3 both of which end up on TP. You might be very guilty of that too Ray!
All my files still get pushed to TP despite me letting my Premium subscription lapse a few months ago partly down to the API changes and partly cost related, so am not the active user I used to be.
My use case for TrainingPeaks is also exactly as described by JulianM above. A while ago, I let my Premium subscription lapse, but all my activities are still being uploaded to TP via Garmin Connect – “just in case”. So presumably I am still being counted as a TP user in the numbers, even though I don’t actually make use of it.
So, as pointed out, how you define “user” is pretty important. What you really want to know is how many active users, or more importantly how many paying customers. As someone who regularly invests in early stage companies, I usually make an effort to dig as deeply into numbers as I can.
Ray, when can we expect new product announcements from you? Wednesday?
Also, do you think this will be a down year or bigger year in term of fitness products at CES?
CES officially kicks off on Thursday morning. But you’ll see most major fitness brands announcing on a blend of Wednesday and Thursday morning.
There’s press events starting Tuesday however, so some things from some brands will hit then, likely later in the evening closer to the first of the major semi-public press events that start then. I’ll have stuff trickling out starting Monday, but reaching full blast by Wednesday & Thursday morning.
I think the year will be about average, but with more noise. Meaning, you’ll see the big announcements you expect from the big companies, but will see lots of smaller announcements from smaller companies that you’ll have to sift through more than in the past. Take heart-rate stuff, I’ve got a folder full of companies pitching HR related products at CES this year, lots of HRV/RR type stuff too. Some of it is valid, and some of it is junk/unsupported. My job is to try and do that sifting.
Now there is a DCR giveaway opportunity. 24 hour sports gear tech hacking event with winner take all cred.
Is the scale table outdated or does the Withings 50 still not support water percent, bone mass and muscle mass? Looking at the descriptions on Clever Training these metrics are supported but I tend to believe the information on this site so was not sure if I was missing something.
No, the older WS-50 doesn’t. My bet is that link is being redirected though on CT to the newer variant, since I think the WS-50 is no longer being made.
For some reason the Withings Body Cardio (black) went down to $86.99 on Amazon. Got one in through your link. Thank you!!
Thanks for posting this. Was able to cancel my Body scale purchase and pick up the Cardio for basically the same price.
I’ve read your original review on both the Garmin and the 2 Withings scales and am still kind of undecided. I have a 630 but the only thing I need weight for in Connect is for the calorie burn and who knows how accurate that is anyway. I think I’d be fine with the Withings app and updating my weight occasionally on the watch or in Connect, I do use MFP but not consistently. Now that the Body Cardio has dropped to $86 I’m seriously thinking about getting that one instead of the Garmin. My main issue is that my bathroom is pretty small so my old Tanita scale sits under the bureau and I pull it out and put in the bathroom when I check my weight and then put it back. Being able to use one on the carpet would be much more convenient and it would get used more often. From the reviews of the Garmin it seems the Withings is much better at more than $40 cheaper. Is the reason for staying with one platform just to avoid having to use more than 1 app?
I’m with you – I have a Garmin watch, but I don’t mind to use two apps for recording activities and monitoring body composition. I don’t think I would even use a 3rd app to sync weight data to Garmin Connect; it just doesn’t matter to me at all. Working on carpet is the #1 reason I chose the Body Cardio over Garmin. With the huge price drop down to $87, I just had to click on the checkout button. Looking forward to getting the new toy!
I did read a review on Amazon that said it didn’t work on carpet so we’ll see
Interesting. I’m on Ray’s side, but yes we’ll see. Even if it doesn’t work on carpet, I think I will still keep it.
I’m sure it depends on how thick the carpet is. I would likely keep it also at that price.
Mine was delivered today. It works on my carpet!! Happy, and good luck!
Mine does too! I just finished setting it up. A difference of .1 from tile to carpet. It was really easy to set up too.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for mentioning the survey. We’ve closed it now, its had a stack load of responses since you posted so thank you so much.
A huge spike in multisport athletes right after you posted this in fact. So thanks to all your readers too.
I will make sure you get early sight of the results, they are /really/ interesting (and quite surprising to say the least).
CHEERS!
Mark