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Wahoo’s new GPS bike computer–ELEMNT: Hands-on first look

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Heads up April 2016 – Update!  My Wahoo ELEMNT In-Depth review post is now available and published over here.  Definitely swing over for all the details!

Wahoo has made their first entrant into the GPS bike computer world, with ELEMNT (it’s like the word element, but missing one ‘e’).  You’ll remember their past bike computers (RFLKT & RFLKT+) which were driven by a connected phone and utilized the phone for GPS and control of the screens.  With ELEMNT, it’s fully self-sustaining during a ride (no phone needed).  Yet at the same time, it’s got much stronger phone integration than most other units out there.

I had a chance at Eurobike to go out for a ride with the unit, as well as poke at it a few other times this summer (and now have a beta unit to test).  Of course all these units are/were prototypes/beta, and thus things are subject to change.  Like any other pre-release product it may get better…or worse.  As such, this isn’t an in-depth review but rather a look at the features and functionality.  So…let’s dive into it!

Features and Functionality:

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While the ELEMNT is first and foremost a GPS bike computer, it does more than just display data metrics.  For example, the unit can display maps and routes, which are pulled from OpenStreetMap and 3rd party services like Strava.  Additionally, it has a bit of a higher level of integration on the phone than most competitive units – allowing for features such as friend location display and complete configuration via the phone app.  Plus, the pairing process is pretty cool and much cleaner than any other bike computer out there.  Not to mention the sweet LED scheme on the unit for displaying intensity information.

When it comes to data display, Wahoo obviously displays your ride data.  It can connect to both ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart sensors, such as heart rate straps, power meters, and speed/cadence sensors.  As well as trainers and soon the GoPro action cam.  But the ELEMNT arranges the data fields a little bit differently.  For starters, you don’t configure each data page separately.  Rather, you configure what is sorta a ‘list’ of prioritized data metrics.  You can then increase or decrease the number of metrics during the ride on the fly.  Higher priority metrics get displayed, and then lower priority metrics disappear.  So you can see this below as I change from 1 field to 10 fields:

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In the case of sensor-driven data, such as a power meter, the unit will automatically hide fields for non-connected data.  So if I had a power meter connected normally, but on this one ride I didn’t, then it’ll hide those data fields.

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You can create a number of custom data pages, it’s just that you can’t specify exactly where things will fit on that given page without doing a bit of a sizing Jenga puzzle.  It’s certainly a different approach.  I’m sorta half and half on it. I like the flexibility of increasing/decreasing data pages, and hiding non-connected sensors.  But at the same time, sometimes I just want my data pages a certain way and don’t want an app thinking it’s smarter than me (even if it is).

When it comes to control, the unit has 6 buttons.  Starting with two buttons on the right side.  These are for increasing/decreasing the number of data fields, as well as changing options (like up/down).

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On the face there are three buttons, these are context-focused in the menus, but during a ride they control the lap, pause, and page change functions:

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And on the left there’s one button.  This is for getting to the settings, and turning on/off the unit.

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Speaking of settings, when you pair the unit to your iOS or Android phone it pairs very similar to an Apple Watch.  This being that you point your camera at the QR code and instantly it’s paired.  No funky relations with the Bluetooth control panel required:

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Next in settings you can pair sensors – either ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart.  For example, here I am paired to a Wahoo BlueSC cadence sensor via Bluetooth Smart, a power meter for ANT+, and a HR strap:

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If indoors, you can rely purely on sensors for speed/distance, and turn off the GPS functionality.  The unit is rated at 17 hours of GPS battery life – and will pre-cache satellite information to speed satellite acquisition times.

Within ELEMNT, almost all of the configuration is done via your phone with the ELEMNT companion app.  This app acts as your hub for interaction with the unit.  It stores your rides, allows you to configure settings on the device, and also allows you to setup Live Tracking and integration with 3rd parties like Strava.

Starting with the customization of screens, you’ve got the following main pages you can enable/disable:

– Lap Data
– Workout Data
– Climbing
– Map
– KICKR Control (when connected)

Then you’ve got custom pages you can add, each with their own data sets.

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The data sets you prioritize from 1-10, thus allowing you to increase/decrease the data fields per page with a simple up/down on the unit.  Any metric you like you can change:

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Next, you can create ‘Profiles’.  These profiles simply allow you to enable/disable various data pages in a predefined set.  This is useful if you have different screens for racing vs training vs touring.  For example, you may not care about a map screen during a race.

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Moving to other app-controlled functions, you’ve got the ability to automatically upload to various 3rd party sites. This is done via either your phone (meaning, the ELEMNT is paired to your phone), or, via WiFi when in range.  The unit actually makes the direct connection straight to the 3rd party service – such as Strava or Training Peaks.  The full list is seen below, but it’s easy for Wahoo to expand as other sites add integration points.

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The unit also displays smartphone notifications.  You can enable or disable these in three categories: Phone Calls, Messages, and E-Mail, as well as simply activate a ‘Do not disturb’ function so that you aren’t annoyed by texts from your boss wondering why you’re not back from your lunch break yet….again.

The ELEMNT also has the rather unique ability to leverage LED’s for zone/intensity information on the top and bottom.  These are like gauges that can show you current intensity for speed, power, and heart rate zones.  The side ones are for showing intensity, while the top ones are for more status-oriented options:

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Here’s how it looks on the unit – it’s very sharp and pretty bright.

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It’s a really cool idea that doesn’t take up data field real estate on the display itself.

Finally, the unit can control the Wahoo KICKR directly.  It can either specify a resistance/wattage level, or can re-ride past activities or downloaded rides.  I didn’t have a chance to poke at this feature yet, so here’s a few screenshots from Wahoo on how it works:

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For now, it’ll just control the KICKR/KICKR SNAP, but in the future they’ll implement FE-C trainer control for 3rd party trainers.

Mapping:

The Wahoo ELEMNT includes the ability to display maps, routes, and even where your friends are currently riding.  The mapping uses OpenStreetMap (OSM), and the unit comes pre-loaded with the entire world.

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The ELEMNT has routing capabilities, based on either past routes you’ve ridden, or routes that you’ve created with 3rd party services.  It’ll automatically download any routes you’ve created with Strava, RideWithGPS, and MapMyFitness.  Or, you can open .GPX file routes (via opening an e-mail, from iTunes, or even a Dropbox share).  Pretty cool integration.

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These sites are pretty easy to create routes, so the process is rather straightforward.

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Once you head to your unit, you can see it listed in the routes section:

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Then while riding, it’ll show you the route on the screen:

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As you can see, the screen is black and white – but looks surprisingly crisp, likely due to the high contrast.  With the ELEMNT you do have to plan ahead a bit on where you’re going, as you can’t just do it on the fly – such as entering an address.  The ELEMNT gives you a breadcrumb trail to follow, and then notifies you if you’re off-course.  It also will give you turn by turn navigation for apps/routes that support it.

The unit includes Live Tracking as well.  By leveraging your phone it’ll broadcast your position automatically to a predefined contact list of friends and family.  You just pick and choose which people you want to add.

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Then when you start your ride they’ll get a link to view your current location.  Tied into that is the ability to see other riders that you’re friends with that are out and about.  This is shown directly on the unit itself, which is very cool.  Especially useful in group-ride situations where your little peloton may have broken apart.  It’s not yet enabled on the beta unit I have, so here’s what it should look like once ready:

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Pretty neat stuff.

Size & Mounting Comparisons:

When it comes to size, the ELEMNT isn’t exactly the smallest kid on the block.  But it’s also not the largest either.  Its somewhere in the middle.  For example, it’s a bit smaller in length/width than the Edge 1000:

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Yet, it’s also a tiny bit thicker (depth) than the Edge 1000.

It’s basically the same height as the Edge 810, but has more bulk around the edges making it a touch bit wider:

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And thus of course, it’s larger than the Edge 520:

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It is smaller than the Polar V650, but larger than the Polar M450.

When it comes to mount, it unfortunately does not use the ubiquitous Garmin quarter-turn mount system.  Rather, uses something very similar but not compatible.  That means you won’t be able to use the numerous 3rd party mounts out there for the Garmin units.

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To try and soften that blow, Wahoo is including a flotilla of mounts in the box.  This includes an out-front mount, a triathlon/TT bike aerobar mount, and a handlebar/stem mount:

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They’re also working with 3rd parties like K-Edge and others to get insets made to allow you to easily adapt your existing mounts for these 3rd party products.

Product Comparison Tables:

I’ve added the Wahoo ELEMNT into the product comparison tool/calculator, which allows you to compare features of the ELEMNT to all other products I’ve tested.  For the purposes of below, I’ve compared it against the Garmin Edge 810 and the Polar V650 (simply because both have mapping) – but you can customize which products to compare against here in the full tool.

Function/FeatureWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated August 1st, 2017 @ 11:03 amNew Window
Price$329$399$253/€220
Product Announcement DateSept 15th, 2015Jan 7, 2013January 26, 2014
Actual Availability/Shipping DateMarch 1st, 2016Jan 2013March 2015
GPS Recording FunctionalityYesYesYes
Data TransferBluetooth Smart, WiFi, USBUSB & BluetoothUSB
WaterproofingIPX7IPX7IPX7
Battery Life (GPS)17 Hours17 hours10 Hours
Recording Interval1-Second1-Second or Smart1-second
Satellite Pre-Loading via ComputerYesNoYes - 3 Days
Quick Satellite ReceptionYesYesYes
AlertsSound/Visual/LED'sSound/VisualSound/Visual
Backlight GreatnessGreatGreatGreat
Ability to download custom apps to unit/deviceNoNoNo
Acts as daily activity monitor (steps, etc...)N/ANoNo
Can control phone musicNo
Has music storage and playbackNo
ConnectivityWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Bluetooth Legacy (pre-4.0) to PhoneNoYesNo
Bluetooth Smart (4.0+) to Phone UploadingYesNoNot yet
Phone Notifications to unit (i.e. texts/calls/etc...)YesNoTBA
Live Tracking (streaming location to website)YesYesNo
Group trackingYes
Emergency/SOS Message Notification (from watch to contacts)NoNoNo
Built-in cellular chip (no phone required)NoNoNo
CyclingWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Designed for cyclingYesYesYes
Power Meter CapableYesYesYes
Power Meter Configuration/Calibration OptionsYesYesYes
Power Meter TSS/NP/IFYesYesYes
Speed/Cadence Sensor CapableYesYesYes
Strava segments live on deviceYesQ3 2015No
Crash detectionNo
RunningWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Designed for runningN/ANoNo
SwimmingWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Designed for swimmingN/ANoNo
TriathlonWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Designed for triathlonN/ANoNo
WorkoutsWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Create/Follow custom workoutsPlanned Fall 2017YesYes
On-unit interval FeatureNoYesNo
Training Calendar FunctionalityNoYesNo
FunctionsWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Auto Start/StopYesYesYes
Virtual Partner FeatureNoYesNo
Virtual Racer FeatureNoYesNo
Records PR's - Personal Records (diff than history)NoYesNo
Day to day watch abilityShows date/timeNoNo
Hunting/Fishing/Ocean DataN/ANoNo
Tidal Tables (Tide Information)N/ANoNo
Jumpmaster mode (Parachuting)N/ANoNo
GeocachingN/ANoNo
Weather Display (live data)NoYesNo
NavigateWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Follow GPS Track (Courses/Waypoints)YesYesPlanned
Markers/Waypoint DirectionNoYesNo
Routable/Visual Maps (like car GPS)YesYesYes
Back to startYesYesYes
Impromptu Round Trip Route CreationNO (BUT CAN CREATE ONE-WAY ROUTES FROM PHONE APP)NoNo
Download courses/routes from phone to unitYesYesPlanned
SensorsWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Altimeter TypeBarometricBarometricBarometric
Compass TypeMagneticGPSGPS
Heart Rate Strap CompatibleYesYesYes
ANT+ Heart Rate Strap CapableYesYesNo
ANT+ Speed/Cadence CapableYesYesNo
ANT+ Footpod CapableNoNoNo
ANT+ Power Meter CapableYesYesNo
ANT+ Weight Scale CapableNoYesNo
ANT+ Fitness Equipment (Gym)NoNoNo
ANT+ Lighting ControlNoQ3 2015No
ANT+ Bike Radar IntegrationNoQ3 2015No
ANT+ Trainer Control (FE-C)KICKR/KICKR Snap Only (FE-C Fall 2017)NoNo
ANT+ Remote ControlNoYesNo
ANT+ eBike CompatibilityNoNoNo
ANT+ Muscle Oxygen (i.e. Moxy/BSX)Yes
ANT+ Gear Shifting (i.e. SRAM ETAP)Yes
Shimano Di2 ShiftingYesYesNo
Bluetooth Smart HR Strap CapableYesNoYes
Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence CapableYesNoYes
Bluetooth Smart Footpod CapableNoNoNo
Bluetooth Smart Power Meter CapableYesNoYes
Temp Recording (internal sensor)YesYesYes
Temp Recording (external sensor)NoNoNo
Compatible with Firstbeat HR tools-NoTBA
SoftwareWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
PC ApplicationN/AGarmin ExpressPolar Flowsync
Web ApplicationN/AGarmin ConnectPolar Flow
Phone AppiOS/AndroidGarmin Connect (iOS/Android)-
Ability to Export SettingsNoNoNo
PurchaseWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Amazon LinkLinkLinkLink
Clever Training - Save a bunch with Clever Training VIP programLinkLinkLink
Clever Training - Save a bunch with Clever Training VIP programLinkLink
DCRainmakerWahoo ELEMNTGarmin Edge 810Polar V650
Review LinkLinkLinkLink

Again, you can make your own product comparison table here, using the full tool.

Availability & Pricing:

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The ELEMNT is slated to be available by Black Friday (the day after Thanksgiving in the US, so November 27th), but could also ship earlier.  Meanwhile, ordering will open up tomorrow (Wednesday, September 16th) for the unit.

It’s priced at $329US, so more expensive than the Polar V650, but cheaper than the Edge 810. Note that this does include all three mounts I listed above, within the box.

[Update note: Nov 20, 2015 – Wahoo has announced delayed shipping until January 2016]

Summary:

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Overall the unit certainly looks very promising – and it’s great to see more competition in the GPS bike computer space.  Wahoo obviously has a history of disturbing various athletic segments they’ve entered, starting with sensors, then trainers, and now GPS bike computers.

The ELEMNT has some new and unique features not found elsewhere, such as the LED bars and friend tracking (on device), as well as far more comprehensive integration with 3rd parties around saved routes.  On the flip-side, it currently lacks a lot of the structured workout capabilities of its competitors, or the more advanced on-the-fly destination input that other companies have as well.  There are also some areas, such as Strava Live Segments, that are on the roadmap for enabling in Q1 2016.

Once the unit starts shipping I’ll do a full in-depth review.  But obviously at this point it’s in the beta stage (though fairly stable in most areas), so it’ll be a bit of time until their expected shipping timeframe in November January.  Nonetheless, expect to see me using it here and there over the next few months within various posts.  So keeping an eye on the weekly ‘5 Random Things I Did This Weekend’ posts is probably a good idea.

With that, thanks for reading!  If you’re looking to burn a bit of time, here’s all my Interbike 2015 posts!

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946 Comments

  1. The mount looks quarter-turn-compatible, like the RFLKT was (well, with a tiny extra housing). How is it different?

    What about android support at launch?

  2. Bart

    Do you know if it is possible to move (converted?) Garmin Topo maps to the device?
    During summer holidays the gravel/forest roads are not available in OpenStreetMap so the map function would be useless when i need it at most.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Bart,

      We don’t have support for user maps, we do store and display ALL roads/tracks/paths from OpenStreetMap data, its not a subset of the data like a lot of places. OSM is improving all the time and we will ship regular updates, if the demand is there we would definitely be open to supporting other map sources.

    • Bart

      Thanks for the quick reply.
      In the Netherlands it looks like OSM has all the roads so that wouldn’t be a problem.
      However Sweden and Norway is totally different. All the main roads are in OSM but a very large amount of roads (>75%?) is gravel car roads and that part is not (yet) covered in any OSM layer. These roads aren’t the best for racing bikes, but for normal bikes and MTB’s they are great.
      All these roads (and even smaller)) are covered in the Garmin Topo maps (mine are almost 10 years old) so thats why i asked the question.
      Before all these roads are covered within OSM will take some time.
      Great product however, can’t wait for Ray’s complete review.

    • Wahoo Murray

      I would be very interested in where/who provides the core data for Sweden and Norway, normally its a single company in each country that then licence the data, OSM data is obviously different. Have you seen the data on any other sites? (Google/Microsoft)

      Can you provide me with a couple sample GPS locations? Maybe even some photos of the data on your Garmin? I would love to look deeper. You can email me, murray@wahoofitness

    • Bart

      I will contact you by mail with screenshots from Garmin Topo themself.
      But online both Google maps and Microsoft Bing seem to have the roads covered.
      Garmin had the maps online in the past (for preview) but not anymore.
      (Garmin is superior in any case but both Google and Bing maps would satisfy)

      For others interested i will post 2 examples where the huge difference can been seen.

      Example 1 (border Norway/Sweden near Charlottenberg):
      Google: link to google.nl
      Bing: link to bing.com
      OSM: link to openstreetmap.org

      Example 2 (Zweden near lake Storsjön)
      Google: link to google.nl
      Bing: link to bing.com
      OSM: link to openstreetmap.org

    • Andre

      I think that it would be a bonus to have them accept Garmin maps. I have their Topo map for Canada as well as the Backroad Mapbooks BC maps which have more information than the OSM. Being able to use those maps would make transitioning from Garmin to Wahoo much more appealing.

    • dave cochrane

      This unit just sold itself to me hard, and is the final decider in my Neo / Kickr decision matrix too. Psyched. My Edge 800 is done and over with!

  3. Ben Mills

    Instant reaction is that is looks hideous compared to a Garmin 520, but the features look really interesting and I do trust that Wahoo make a quality product.

    The screen also looks blocky compared to the Garmin units.

    This is a really different product for Wahoo and it will be interesting to see how well they maintain/upgrade the software.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Ben,

      It really does look awesome in real life, something Batman might have on his utility belt. ELEMNT has automatic updates over WiFi and we have a lots of cool features planned over the next year, you will see it be updated more like a mobile app than a traditional GPS computer.

      The screen is black and white and has amazing contrast, we think it has the best visibility in full sunlight compared to any other computer on the market.

    • Andrew Donnan

      I hope a few features will trickle down to owners of RFLKT(+). Mainly notifications from texts and phone calls, so we can decide if it’s important enough to stop and respond.

    • +1 on this – I’m seeing many other devices (from Garmin, Polar et al) obviously having smart notifications) and I was hoping a firmware update to the RFLKT+ would also receive this….any thought there Mister Wahoo Murray Man….?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Its something we are looking at, RFLKT hardware precedes Apple’s notification technology, so its a little more difficult to implement. We working on it right now, but we are not positive everything is going to work. We will see what we can do.

    • eli

      Black and white with no grey scale? (Thinking more for map purposes)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Black and White, but I use several Half-Tone techniques to get some additional tectures.

    • David E.

      I was really hoping that free/Wahoo-app based turn-by-turn directions would make their way to the RFLKT+.

      Any chance we’ll still see that?

    • Israel

      Just as a follow-up to your question. This is January 2016. I have the wahoo RFLKT+ and it does have the smart notification. Also if you have a Ride with GPS account, you can sync your route on your phone to the Wahoo RFLKT+ and it will give you turn by turn directions just like any of the high end computers will.

  4. SuperQ

    Any idea what GPS chip is used? GLONASS support?

    • Wahoo Murray

      The GPS Receiver supports GPS,GLONASS,GALILEO, and BEIDOU. We also use several Assisted GPS techniques to improve performance

    • David

      Will the Wahoo Elemnt eventually support the new L2C GPS channel? I believe they have launched more than enough L2C-capable satellites; it’s just a matter of testing and approval before they start transmitting position data.

    • David

      Wahoo Murray, please see my following question about L2C. Sorry for the double-post; I replied to the original question, not to your reply.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry my knowledge isn’t great about the GPS sub-systems, but its my understanding that the ELEMNT supports the L1 frequency,. I will double check and let you know if the answer is any different.

  5. Michael

    Regarding hardware only, it looks like something that would have been introduced 10 years ago.

  6. across

    “Meanwhile, ordering will open up tomorrow (Wednesday, October 16th) for the unit.”, DCR, you mean September, right?

  7. Tyler B

    What’s the screen resolution? Seems to be in the neighborhood of the Garmins but eyeballing that off screenshots isn’t very precise.

    I’ve had an Edge 1000 for ~6 months and while it gets the job done I’m still not over the moon with it. Route navigation / mapping globally + non-crappy power meter support are my main use cases. I don’t expect the ELEMNT to displace it for me out of the box but I’m tempted to buy it just to support the alternative. I’ve owned a RFLKT & + so I’m not expecting Wahoo to nail it on their first release, and probably have a lot of growing pains but I also think they’ll do a better job being a Garmin alternative than Polar and Magellan.

    • Wahoo Murray

      The screen is 240×400, the visibility is awesome and looks really crisp.

      We learnt a lot from the RFLKT and the ELEMNT is a totally new and re-invented experience designed from the ground up.

  8. Robert

    Do you mean preorder opens tomorrow September 16th?

  9. Simon Sheehan

    Visually it sort of reminds me of my old garmin edge 305 that I got rid of in 2011. The leds are a good idea though

    • The shape doesn’t bother me. Some of the modern garmins have an “inflated” look like the iMac.

      Also notice we aren’t talking about hacking maps to fit 50mb of available space..

    • Wahoo Murray

      Thanks!

      I’ve worked endlessly to fit WORLD maps onto ELEMNT, I have every Road, Track, Bike Path and even every Footpath in the WORLD build directly into the ELEMNT. Its taken over 50 versions and a custom map format to get 30 GB’s of OSM data into a GPS Bike Computer!

    • Mike Robinson

      How long does an update take if there are 30G of maps…?

    • Wahoo Murray

      The raw maps is 30G, the compressed maps on the device is much smaller (2.5GB). When we update maps we only update data that has changed, so the actual required download is much much smaller.

  10. Colin

    I was kind of excited about it until I saw the lack of support for quarter-turn mounting. My new bike uses a proprietary computer mounting system that only accepts quarter-turn and a few other established standards; wonder why they went a different direction.

    Another question: was total output (in joules) available as a metric? I know it’s not on the RFLKT+, so I was wondering if it was added. Also, what types of file output can you get out of it?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We use kCal for energy by default until you pair a Power Meter, after that the system defaults to using Joules as the energy unit. Right now we support GPX, TCX, PWX and CSV file formats, FIT will be added before release. As noted in the review, we also directly upload to a host of 3rd party sites.

    • Colin

      (Meant to reply to the above comment, apologies for the double-post)
      I love the RFLKT+, so I’m pleased to see an upgraded version being released, but I’m concerned about the lack of quarter-turn support; my Madone 9 has a somewhat unique computer mounting solution that uses an extender that only accommodates a couple of mount types. How would I attach this thing to it?

    • Rhindle

      Is there any way to manually pull the activity files directly off the ELEMNT via USB or similar? The matrix in the review only shows Bluetooth and Wifi. I like to have the files for archiving and whatever workflow I choose for uploading or analyzing. Having to download them from some web portal would be a deal breaker (think MotoActv… shudder). I know for a lot of people, automatic uploading will suit them best, but I personally want the raw data files with minimal fuss.

    • Kevin Booth

      Colin,
      You may have a solution by now for your Madone 9, but if not, I designed a low mount and a straight mount for my Madone 9, and am sharing the designs with other Blendr mount users. The 3D printed mounts are available at cost from Shapeways.

      Straight mount: link to goo.gl

      Low mount: link to goo.gl

      Regards, Kevin

  11. Colin

    I love the RFLKT+, so I’m pleased to see an upgraded version being released, but I’m concerned about the lack of quarter-turn support; my Madone 9 has a somewhat unique computer mounting solution that uses an extender that only accommodates a couple of mount types. How would I attach this thing to it?

  12. Axel

    Very nice product with some nice intelligent features. The Bluetooth and Strava integration looks very nice, Wifi too. But the only thing which looks a little bit outdated is the display.

    • Wahoo Murray

      We went for visibility over color/pixel count, just look at the photos Ray took, the ELEMNT display is substantially more visible, Thats the important thing right?

    • eli

      For mapping resolution is important so you can fit the road names on the screen

    • Wahoo Murray

      True but I think you will be surprised what we can achieve with what we have, we have specific goals with a mapping application on a GPS Bike Computer and these goals are very different to the goals that you might have a smartphone. We don’t try and replace the mapping power of your smartphone but instead complement it.

    • Dave Lusty

      I’d say that for mapping, the ability to follow a route is key so if Wahoo manage this without getting lost then Garmin can have all the colours and pixels they like, many of us will ditch them in a heartbeat. The TBT function on the 810 and I’m told the 1000 is hopeless which makes the integrated mapping essentially view only and therefore almost pointless. Sadly, being based on OSM, the address search will be broken on the Wahoo unit as the address data on OSM is borked at the moment, at least in the UK.

    • Axel

      Hi Murrey, I totally understand, I think I have to take a look to a real device to see if it fits. Thanks!

    • Say you are on a ride with a cue sheet (no one created a route on the computer. Its very useful to see road names so you can see where the turn is coming up. The demo image above with road names is ~280×450 so higher then the screens real resolution and doesn’t really show the names in clarity to be readable. Maybe its better in person?

  13. Wahoo Mike

    Wahoo Mike here. Thanks for the positive comments. As far as the industrial design goes, Ray has a unit that has zero paint on the face of the product. They are just samples and look relatively flat. The production units will be much more polished.

  14. ekutter

    I may get one just to support competition to Garmin. Garmin has great hardware but their software stinks and quality control is abysmal. I keep going back to Garmin because I haven’t found anything better that meets my needs. From my experience, Wahoo Fitness is much more responsive to customer issues.

    I’ll take a more readable B/W screen over washed out color any day.

  15. Wahoo Murray

    Mounts:

    Just a couple things about our mounting system, Ray feel free to update the original post if you think its worth while.

    Unfortunately, while widely availably, the quarter turn system used by Garmin is not a open standard and isn’t freely available for use by manufactures, especially other GPS Bike Computers.

    We have done our best to design a modern, robust mount that we feel is stronger and more secure than other mounts on the marke. We are working with several 3rd party manufactures on supplying and retro fitting mounts for compatibility. For those who have niche requirement and happy to do a little modification its also possible to “massage” a Garmin female mount into accepting our mounting system.

    • Bruno Moraes

      Perhaps a better way would be if it were possible to “massage” the ELEMNT male mount to fit a standard quarter turn mount. This way one could still use existing Garmin units. Is that possible?

      Perhaps someone will also quickly develop a “converter” but that will only add more bulk to the unit.

    • Dave Lusty

      So I take it the Wahoo mount IS an open standard that you’re sharing for free to resolve the situation? Presumably Polar were not willing to share theirs either?

    • Steve

      Here you go: http://www.dogearsgps.com
      It adds a few mm to the stack height.

  16. Don

    What do your friends need to be using to show up on the display? The same device?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Initially it will be other ELEMNT devices but we will quickly roll it out to our iOS and Android apps. We may even push out dedicated apps just for people wanting to keep in the loop but don’t need the full workout tracking that our smart phone apps provide.

    • Claude

      Unit looks great, glad to see a nice alternative to Garmin. The Friends feature looks nice too but will need to include fb or strava friends because if limited to my friends who share the same unit I may have to change my current friends for a while…
      Claude

    • Tyler B

      Since y’all are keen on dropping vowels, will this feature be named “STRV NTGRTN”? :-P

  17. Donnie Barnes

    How will it compare in terms of durability for mountain bikers? Glass type?

    I see they have the same waterproof level as the 810, but in my experience dirt can easily lodge in the 810 buttons keeping a path open to let moisture in, ultimately killing the unit. I’ve opened mine out of warranty to find this is what happened. Thoughts here? Has it been tested much in that environment?

    One thing I REALLY like about Garmin’s quarter turn mount is the one held on by rubber bands. In an MTB crash it gives instead of breaking things. Is there a mount like that? And Wahoo would garner SERIOUS cool points if they’d publish 3D CAD files of the mount so folks could easily experiment with their own mounts using a 3D printer. Lofty dream, I know.

    Garmin’s software is so bad that these questions almost don’t matter…I’ll try it anyway. My 810 has refused to sync via the phone for weeks now even though my Fenix3 works fine. Driving me crazy.

    –Donnie

    • Wahoo Murray

      I will need to get back to you on the Glass type, I’m not sure.

      The buttons are sealed, no change of dirt getting stuck under them, I don’t know the IP rating but I will find out and let Ray know.

      One of the mounts included is intended for cable ties… not rubber bands, but might work. You have a lot of questions that I don’t know the full answer, I hope you understand…. :)

      I don’t see any problem in us providing the 3D cad files of the mount, I will see if I can get them published on our website or at least swing us a email at support and we can provide them.

    • Donnie Barnes

      This is the main reason I’m willing to “just buy one” and try it…Wahoo responds to customers so very well.

      I’ll hit up support for those files. Would love to have both male and female sides…then I could create my own compatible stuff and use it for other things, too (like the random time you’d rather have your phone visible instead…could print a male side and mate it to a phone case).

      Also a happy KICKR, RFLKT, BlueSC and BlueHRM user!

      Getting stoked…often have trouble seeing the 810 screen on trail.

      –Donnie

    • Dave Lusty

      I agree, being a Garmin customer it’s weird to see the vendor responding to individual comments. Garmin don’t even respond when hundreds of people complain and create a thousand pages of forum posts about a product, their usual response is to release 5 new products each with new problems to ignore :)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Donnie,

      The kens is polycarbonate with a vinyl screen protector.

  18. Walter Cahall

    I see in the comparison chart that you state now that the Polar v650 has power meter metrics (TSS/IF/NP) or perhaps the equivalent of them. This was listed in the V650 as TBA for a while now. Is this a typo or has Polar added the TP or TP-style power meter metrics? If they are on the V650, are they also on the V800?

  19. Sean

    I think it looks great. Very little glare and sharp contrast. I’m eager to see the final product.

  20. alien8

    I love the look of it. I’ve had so many garmin crashes during rides that I was looking for a reliable alternative.

    If you need another tester please please let me know! :-)
    (wahoo kickr, HR belt owner and more!)

  21. Every time some company decides to be hipster and drop vowels, I will now assign whatever vowels / emphasis made the expression funniest in my mind.

    ELEMNT is short for ELEM-NUT.

  22. I’m a confirmed Wahooligan (RFLKT I & II, Wahoo 7-Min App, TickrX – and ALSO the Wahoo full kit from Voler – I mean I am MISTER WAHOO!!) and I can’t wait for this. So awesome it’ll be. Take my money, Chip H and team there at Wahoo!!

  23. Wahoo Murray

    OK, Just a update on mounts.

    I just got the OK from Chip that we can open source the mount design, we are still doing a few tweaks but we will publish the mount design for anyone to use freely. Email our support if you want early access but otherwise I will arrange both the male and female CAD designs to be published before the release, lets make a new more robust and truly open mount standard.

    • Donnie Barnes

      I knew you guys “got it” a lot more than other companies, but this is a game changing level of “getting it.”

      Thank you so much for realizing the value in open sourcing things like this. I know a thing or two about this having been on the forefront of the open source movement back in the day, and it’s amazing how many companies miss huge opportunities like this.

      –Donnie

    • SurlyWill

      Thanks for going open. I do wish Garmin would have done that. Now if we can only get the rear blinkie guys to do an open mount standard. In the end open mount standards are in everyone’s best interest.

      As evidence … 10 years ago everyone had their own phone charging standards. Then people got forward thinking and decided to go to Mini and Micro USB. Everyone benefited as companies are unlikely to make that much in licensing connector standards. Better to increase overall adoption by making things easier.

    • They got forward thinking because the EU told industry to agree on a common standard, which would then become a requirement to meet electronics regulations. The industry agreed on USB (which left a little wiggle room for some less scrupulous vendors to take advantage of).

  24. Boy that’s one ugly unit!

  25. Bruce

    When following a route loaded from RideWithGPS, Strava, MapMyRide etc… will the ELEMNT display an elevation profile (i.e. show me what hills are are in front of me and behind me).. similar to what the Garmin’s do?

    I

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yep, We have a dedicated climbing page with this information. Right now Strava doesn’t provide elevation data with Routes, but others do and we are looking at options to fill in the gaps when 3rd party providers don’t provide elevation data.

    • Bruce

      It would be great if you had more screenshots on your website.. I’d love to see what the climbing page looks like as well as greater detail on the turn-by-turn capabilities.

      Does the turn-by-turn guidance include street names? (The DC Rainmaker screenshots make it look like just a breadcrumb trail.. a bit like the old Edge 500)

    • Hey Murray, excited to see the release! Hit me up for details on using the Ride With GPS elevations service, no need to roll your own as ours is fast, redundant and covers the entire world. Cheers!

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Bruce,

      The UI for Routes and Navigation has happened only in the last 7 days and we are still tweaking and refreshing the UI based on feedback from our testers, We will release more details in the coming weeks.

    • Steven

      Please make this integration happen with RWGPS — knowing what hills I still have left on my route are the reasons I stick with my buggy garmin…

    • Bruce

      Thank you Wahoo.. I see there are new screenshots on the ELEMNT web page

      link to wahoofitness.com

  26. Mike B

    For pairing, that’s actually a QR Code, not a bar code.

    Personally, the overall size of the unit versus the screen size makes it look a little bulky and awkward and the screen customization is weird, but otherwise great review and looks like a solid product.

  27. daniel sekera

    anyone want to buy a slightly used month old 810? i am seriously thinking or switching and i just switched from cycleops to the 810. The only deal breaker that I really have to think about after i re-read the review is the screen customization. I like my data the way I like it.

    however, I have NEVER seen a company as responsive over a product as Wahoo seems to be. Garmin cab give two __its about their customer base after they buy a product. Wahoo actually gives me the impression they really care.

    Christmas is coming maybe ebay is going to have a 810 for say soon…..

    • Wahoo Murray

      The screen customisation might seem strange, its different and we have spent a lot of time designing it, but it REALLY does work!

      You can still configure it exactly how you want, if you want 8 pages each with a different number of data fields, thats fine, you can, but we also allow you to quickly zoom in/out on additional fields on each of those pages while you are on the road. Not only that, you can open the iOS/Android app and change data fields in real time, mid ride!

    • SurlyWill

      I’m holding out for an 820 that I suspect is coming.

  28. Bruce

    Looks like pre-ordering is open already on the Wahoo website

  29. S Kay

    The Garmin 520 seems to well positioned – the leader + plus compatibility with all sorts of add ons at $299 instead of $329.

    That said the Garmin don’t support bluetooth smart – I wonder if there is more battery drag with the bluetooth.

    I suspect the wahoo Elemnt will come down in price or throw heart rates monitors…etc.

    I personally am a fan of Garmin’s on going millions of $$ support for a American Cycling team.

    • The Garmin 520 doesn’t offer nearly the mapping/routing ability. And the assumption is they don’t do bluetooth because they are a big booster of the proprietary ANT standard.

    • I think you’d find the ELEMNT and 520 are actually fairly similar in overall mapping ‘grades’, if you will. But just different. So if you were awarding features for points in map-related functions, they’d probably end up with similar totals, just different features.

      For example, Garmin has a color screen and can (today) support various types of maps. Wahho doesn’t. On the flip-side, Garmin’s maps basically have to be funneled through using either their site to create, or a 3rd party site with USB access. So it’s more cumbersome.

      Next, both have psuedo turn-by-turn (520 vs ELEMNT), but not to the level of something like the Edge 810/1000/Touring, with ability to specify a random destination/etc…

      Then, if you look at something like ‘Back to start’, that’s on the Edge 520, but not on the ELEMNT. But on the flip-side, you’ve got LED’s which can be used for left/right directions on the ELEMNT. Again, different options.

      As for ANT+, it’s pretty open. While BT connectivity is far better on phones, I think you’ll find that the communication standards on ANT+ for interoperability between devices/companies is far better. The power meter standard on BT is a perfect example of that.

    • Sebastien Gagne

      I too saw the similarities with the Edge 520. I was planning on buying a 520, but now I’m torn between the two. The Garmin does look much better (we are getting used to those bezel-to-screen ratios), but the phone integration with the Elemnt seems very interesting. Then you have little quircks like B&W screen and incompatible mounts, but their UI seem very interesting.

      It’s going to be tought decision. I just wish Wahoo would have made it easier ;~)

    • DAN SEKERA

      turn by turn not to the level of the 810/100/touring……..oh well there is the deal breaker. I guess I have to keep living with garmin where garmin = contrast? what is contrast? you people actually try to read these things when you ride?

  30. Yancey arrington

    Awesome entry into the Garmin dominated market. Hopefully this can move Garmin to start focusing on features which improve the user experience versus padding the marketing feature list.

    Looks like this unit uses the same 240×400 Sharp memory lcd display as the SRM PC8. Having used a Pc8 for about a month now I can’t imagine going back to the poor contast garmin screens. The Pc8 screen is visible in all light conditions and easily in the dark with the backlight on. Kudos on Wahoo for selecting a similar great looking display.

  31. Tyler B

    The big wahoo on the front is a smart touch. I’m going to assume they’re planning on getting good logo placement when this starts showing up on pro bikes in races?

  32. Laurens Bloem

    I like it, and I welcome more competition (especially since my Edge 800 is getting on a bit).
    Two thoughts:
    I’ll have to wait for the final look, but I’m not totally on board with the way this looks. A bit bulky/clunky IMHO.
    And though I like the priority of data fields, I would also like the ability to have ‘fixed’ screens. The reason is that while riding I just look ‘bottom left’ (for example) because I know a certain field is there. If you reduce fields with this the position of everything lower in the order will change if I’m right. And I can imagine the frustration of getting tired and then at a glance look at the wrong field first every time.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Its no problem to configure any number of pages with fixed data fields, the zoom in/out just allows you to quickly add/remove visible fields on each of those pages. The ELEMNT remembers the zoom level for each page so if you don’t touch the buttons you have ‘fixed’ screens.

    • SurlyWill

      I also welcome the competition. Garmin devices have been market leading in the bike GPS field. Unfortunately, that has probably lead Garmin to it’s less than stellar software quality control.

      I’ve never had LOTS of problems with my Edge 510 … just a few. At the same time Garmin Connect still has some kinks and I still can just plot a route in Connect and have it come up on my phone. Nor can I plan a route at all in my phone.

  33. Scott

    After 2 1/2 years of fighting Garmin devices and their bugs, primarily relating to the *consistent and reliable* pairing and syncing with Android & Apple smartphones, I pray this might be a product that will finally free me from that hegemony.

  34. Scott E

    Any ETA on when the thisisant.com compatibility directory will be update with the Elemnt information?

    Given the existing investment in sensors and devices, it would be good to know how robust compatibility will be upon shipping. This is a lesson learned from purchasing a Magellan/Mio 505, only to find out that implied sensor device updates never came.

  35. Andri

    Guess this explains why Ray had been so quiet on his podcast whenever the RFLKT+ was brought up, and why he stopped comparing new products to it.

    Can you elaborate on the auto-update (is it automatic and mandatory?–e.g., I would hate forced updates just before a ride).

    And also, can you elaborate on the roadmap of features — especially custom training sessions.

    Look forward to mounting the ELEMNT on my bike.

    • ekutter

      I too would like to hear the plans for automatic updates. Garmin, with Garmin Express, is automatically doing this with no way to disable the updates, at least with the Edge 810. It would be a shame if Wahoo followed this behavior. If you have a unit working perfectly fine for your needs, it’s often not worth the risk of an update.

  36. Bruce Burkhalter

    Was planning on getting the 520 but now I’m not so sure! Long time Wahoo fan and really like their attitude and support.

    Congrats, Chip, Murray and the rest of the Wahoo team on challenging the standard with interesting new features and functionality. Hope ELEMNT lives up to the expectations.

  37. Chris Bainbridge

    Hi
    Looks really nice. Does it support Strava segments like the 520?

  38. Alex

    2 Wahoo Murray:

    Do you plan to work with other developers, so they can add support for ELEMNT in their apps? Such as Ride with GPS, for example.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Right now we are working directly with Strava and RideWithGPS on tight integration to there services, we wanted to make sure the user experience was consistent and the best it could be. We may open up some parts of the API to selected 3rd party developers over time if we feel that they have something to add to the experience.

  39. HK

    I really like the features and it seems like a well thought out device. I’d have already placed a pre-order were it not for the mount. I am using Canyon’s H11 aero handlebar/stem, and there is no way to mount the elem-nut on it (yet). Here’s hoping that Raceware fixes that dilemma :)

  40. Dave Lusty

    What I find really interesting here isn’t so much the unit itself, or the features, but rather the massive number of comments from people who desperately want a device not from Garmin. Ray, you really need to sit Garmin down and make them read this stuff (after all, you’re very influential now!). If Garmin had the quality and testing in place it would be impossible to even try entering this market, but right now people are considering buying this just to support an alternative ecosystem and that should be coming through loud and clear at Garmin that people are willing to drop features for stability and a responsive modern thinking vendor. As you noted at the end, Wahoo are disruptive in every market they choose to enter so lets hope that happens here too.
    Personally I’d pay Wahoo to write a replacement firmware for my Edge810 that doesn’t randomly switch off mid-ride (bug in the Strava enabled firmware), no need for new hardware :)

    • Donnie Barnes

      Garmin doesn’t deserve to be “helped” in that way with how they’ve treated customers for THIS LONG. All you have to do is go read the product specific forums on GARMIN’S OWN SITE. So many “does anyone from Garmin EVER read these posts?!?” comments from people bugs that NEVER get addressed. It’s crazy.

      Let Wahoo and any other competitor that wants to come take their lunch. I welcome it.

      –Donnie

    • Jim in Colorado

      I’ve always received great support from Garmin. A human answers the phone, usually pretty quickly, and they’ve helped me out several times. I have a Forerunner 910XT that would not fit around my winter running/cycling jacket and Garmin shipped a longer wrist strap same day for free. Not at all their “fault”, but they took care of me. And I had a problem with it early on and they replaced it immediately after asking just a few questions and without a long verification process (I had registered it when I bought it, so that probably helped). I have experienced great support from Garmin. I am intrigued by the flexibility and iPhone-enabled customization of the ELEMNT — screens, profiles, zooming in and out on the fly, etc.

  41. GO

    Lot of races I do happen in night. Is it possible to setup back light to switch on for 5sec every 2min ? Otherwise battery wouldn’t last.

  42. Robert

    Now they (Wahoo) have gotten a gps chipset in their mitts, Do you think they’ll have a go at launching a running watch too? Having sampled a few previous products that just work, I’d be up for pre ordering blindly.

  43. Sterke-Jerke

    Also looking forward for this new WaHoo ELEMNT. Price is a but of a disappointment, but untill now I’ve not been disappointed by Wahoo. It takes some time, but support is great.

    Most curious about the real battery life…

    Still a happy user of a kickstarter rflkt+

  44. Mat Porter

    Really looking forward to this… The number of responses from Wahoo in this comments section is enough to make me want to buy one already. If the unit is even close to being as good as Ray’s initial thoughts suggest, then I am in.
    I really like their idea of prioritising data fields – and that power (for example) disappear when the sensors are not there is a great idea (means you don’t have to set up alternative pages for different bikes etc.).
    The only feature I will miss initially is Strava Live Segments – but that is coming anyway. Excellent news!

  45. Casey Shanks

    I see that you mounted yours on a K-Edge. Did you “massage” it as described by Wahoo in the comments? I am interested to know if you can still mount a Garmin after the trip to the masseuse.

  46. Wow – that’s a very interesting device there and a serious competitor for Garmin.

    I particularly enjoy the Live Friends feature. That’s just brilliant when out riding with friends and doing a ‘Mini race’, which is something I reguarly do. This way you get a live view on the gaps and if it’s growing or shrinking. Sort of your own ‘yellow moto showing you the time gaps to the guys behind’ or your own audio-connection to the teamcar :-)

    I usually ride with the ‘breadcrumb’ path on a Garmin Edge 705 and think Wahoo did a good job here.

    Good price proposition, too!

    Questions:
    1) Is it possible to easily zoom in and out of the map while riding? That’s something you often need to do when following a breadcrumb on unknown roads.
    2) Are the OSM maps updatable by the user?

    • Wahoo Murray

      1) The buttons on the side of the ELEMNT zoom in and out on the map, If you are in navigation mode the unit positions the user at the bottom of the screen and tracks your heading, as you zoom out we adjust the styling of the map to show the user in the middle and the map facing north so its easy to work out where you are and where you need to go.

      2) The OSM maps will be updated over WiFi periodically.

    • Great – thanks for that swift reply!

  47. Laura

    The inevitable (paid) use by Team Sky will ensure these will be very successful with their fanboy market, even if seen to be a lesser product (e.g. stages)

  48. Axel

    OK, I have three questions:

    1. Does it display WhatsApp messages or other notification center items from the iPhone?
    2. How do I configure a wifi network, inside the mobile phone app?
    3. Is it a micro USB port?

    Thanks!

    Axel

    • Wahoo Murray

      1. Today we only show native messages (iMessage / SMS), Calls and Emails (Native App). This is only because we wanted to reduce the noise, but we are open to allowing users to enable other types of notifications and I think WhatsApp is a great example.

      2. Yes you configure the WiFi through the mobile app on iOS or Android.

      3. Correct, Micro USB.

    • Axel

      Thanks Murray! I would love to see if users can select the apps which will send out notifications.

  49. Maksim

    LED Settings -> Play sound for… -> SUPER MARIO??? What is it?
    I waited for Edge 520, but now it is hard decision between ELEMNT and Edge.
    B/W screen and no touch for bike computer these days are fantastic, and i really appreciate this.
    And price confuses me, Ray says it is $329, but on the website €379, what is a bit too much. (For this price i can buy Bundle 520).
    By the way, is it planned to sell some kind of bundles? HR + Speed/Cadence would be nice.

    • Patrick

      In Australia the Edge 520 is $399AUD, the ELEMNT i is $499AUD on the Wahoo website. I’m keen to use something other than an Edge, but a $100AUD/25% difference makes it hard to justify.

  50. Great, I am done spending money on another company making GPS devices :)
    I am happy with my FRLKT+ device so I am looking forward to this.
    It would be great if it somehow supported garmin maps as well, even though I guess it will be impossible.

  51. Einundsiebzig

    Nice Review! hat it is not Garmin Mount compatible thus a knock out criteria for me….

  52. Matt

    “Matt
    August 26, 2015 at 3:42 pm
    On a side note… Will watch/bike computer manufacturers ever allow for BLE AND ANT+ sensor connections on one unit??? Is it really that hard to do?”

    Haha, nice one Wahoo, leading the way!

    Let’s hope other device manufacturers wake up to this.

  53. Questions/requests to Wahoo:

    Any possibility you might support multiple sensors of the same type, like multiple power meters, for comparison? From looking at the comments to the P1 review, there’s actually demand for recording and comparing multiple sensors of the same type! Currently you either have to have multiple head units, or the WASP and their iOS app, or (most elegant yet) an android phone with built-in ANT and the IpWatts app; this would be another chance to get ahead of what other head units can do. :-)

    Any possibility you might support the Moxy SmO2 sensor in its native (not speed-cadence sensor emulation) mode? If possible, many of that one too, since it’s really useful when placing several of them over different muscles.

    Any possibility you migh add graphs of data other than altitude, like heart rate or power?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We have a powerful Sensor Manager that does indeed support multiple sensors of the same type, however right now we don’t export that data, our primary goal is to provide the best data possible for normal use cases, exporting data from multiple power meters isn’t really a normal use case but maybe something we would look at.

      We are working with several custom ANT sensor manufactures and we hope over time we will start adding direct support for these sensors, we will release more information about this over time.

      We feel HR and Power graphs are not that useful on device with a screen this size, data is Synced to the iOS and Android app in real time and allows the user to view the full dataset mid-ride. However, if we do get enough demand and think it will improve the user experience than we could definitely look at adding graphs for other time series data.

    • Thanks. Great you’re answering questions here.

    • Sorry about the late reply but wanted to add +1 to Takura’s excellent suggestion for simultaneous recordings of the same device type. I usually ride with at least two power meters and I can’t overstate how many times one of those power meters starts going wonky at the most critical moment (typically in a last half of a TT or doing a long interval set). It would be very nice to be able to switch which power meter to look at mid-ride– and to be able to analyze the two data streams after the race. No other head units on the market come close to that kind of functionality.

  54. Tim

    With a barometric altimeter on board, will the unit display temperature? I can’t see any indication of this, but I really do hope so. I was literally about to buy a 520 today – I’m inclined to wait for this instead.

  55. Maxis

    Hi, quick question for Wahoo. Can you use it with multiple bikes? Different wheel szes? I have two MTB’s (27.5/29er) and two road bikes.

    Can you set different profiles for each? That way I can keep track how many miles I have on each. So far it looks promising! Thank you.

    • Maxis

      I’ll ask again….

      Hi, quick question for Wahoo. Can you use it with multiple bikes? Different wheel szes? I have two MTB’s (27.5/29er) and two road bikes.

      Can you set different profiles for each? That way I can keep track how many miles I have on each. So far it looks promising! Thank you.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Maxis,

      I am still finding out exactly how that will work. I will keep you posted.

    • Merlin

      Just wondering if you ever found out the information about multiple bikes and the tracking of mileage on each. Actually, I keep track of mileage on Strava so as long as you allocate your ride to certain gear, it shouldn’t be any different. But, question remains on how many sensors you can connect to the ELEMNT.

  56. Frederic

    Gosh! Waht happend to yout Edge 810? The display looks like run over by a tank.

  57. Luke

    Looks awesome to me. Once the Strava live segments arrive I can see me getting rid of the edge 1000 and moving over. The ability to ride courses that I have ridden before in real life on my KICKR is a huge plus. Will we be able to load courses that others have ridden and ride those on the KICKR as well, would be awesome for race preparation?

    And another massive factor is that you just know with Wahoo you are going to get top class support as is evident from your guys presence here. Good job :)

  58. David

    RFLKT+ user here, happy with support but still waiting for development to fix the crashing app (iOS & WahooFitness app) after 3-4 hour rides… it’s been broken since April. That said, my other problem with the RFLKT+ is the battery. I’d rather it be rechargeable but if it’s coin cell, it needs some form of battery life indicator. Yesterday, I was running out the door a bit late for a group ride, just to find that the RFLKT+ was dead.

    So battery life has been mentioned, but what about battery type. Is it rechargeable or a coin?

    • Nathan

      Says it’s USB rechargeable on the website.

      “Includes a USB rechargeable battery with up to 17 hours of battery life.”

    • James

      Interesting. I had problems with the RFLKT+ crashing on long rides as well, when I contacted Wahoo Support they told me I was the only person who had reported the problem. Reported it end of July.

      My suggestion for this new product; don’t be a beta tester for them, wait for it to be out a year and see how the product looks then.

    • David

      James, I contacted them in May and again in July that the latest update didn’t fix the problem. Both times they were aware of the issue and confirmed my suspicion that at it was a memory leak in the app. To get around it, I shut down the app around mile 50, and then restart it. Afterwards, I combine the activities before uploading to Strava using GoldenCheetah.

    • I’ve had similar problems with the Android app. I’ve even written code to merge my Garmin Touring and (multiple) Wahoo ride files before uploading to Strava, which helps prevent agains gaps and such.

      More of a daily hassle is how long the Android app takes to ‘boot up’ since it loads all of my recent rides. I was told the only workaround is to clear the app data, which means setting up sensors, config, and RFLKT+ screens again.

    • Heath

      David, you may have solved it by now, but the solution for the Wahoo Fitness app crashing on long rides is to set the app to auto-lap. It has something to do with the maximum iPhone cache. I have mine auto-lap at 1 hour, and it will now go forever without crashing.

  59. Mike H

    Honestly the first time I’ve raised an eyebrow since I bought my Edge 500 ~3 years ago. I don’t think Garmin’s software has improved in that time. The ability to make device changes on the fly using an app is a seriously nice feature.

  60. FrankJ

    How many data fields are possible on the map screen? (With Garmin, only 2 which is really a shame).

    • Wahoo Murray

      Today its 2 fields, but its something i’ve flagged to review so it might change before release.

    • Bruce

      Even if it makes the map nearly useless while more than 2 fields are displayed, having the ability to just add a couple fields to get a quick look at them, then drop them back off sounds like it would be useful.

  61. Maksim

    On Wahoo website under Specs battery life declared to be 16 hours (in Features: 17).
    Is satellite app already available for features preview?
    And what means Super Mario under “LED Settings” on app screenshot? :D
    BTW, LEDs on the device is really nice feature!

  62. I was so in the Wahoo camp for years, but got sick of how flaky the sensors were. After spending countless hours with their support I invested heavily in Garmin equipment and have been extremely happy. What a disappointing announcement from Wahooo, really happy I made the switch.

  63. Mike Robinson

    Great to see Wahoo here answering questions in person.

    Any comments about the possibility of the ELEMNT supporting the Garmin Edge Remote to switch between screens?

    I believe the Edge Remote is an ANT+ device.

    Generally speaking, I find that Garmin software sucks but I do find the Edge Remote handy to switch between map, elevation and stats screens without needing to take my hands off the bars.

  64. Walter

    Looks like a great addition to the market! One question: any possibility that the Garmin Varia lights can be integrated into this? Would that require Garmin’s cooperation, or is that an open ANT+ kind of thing? Thanks!

  65. Duane

    Really glad to see Wahoo joining in the conversation and providing real engagement with people’s questions and concerns. I’m really happy with my Rflkt+ and I’ve turned several people onto using them as well. It seems to me that a lot of the functionality in the Elemnt could be ported over to that platform as well. It has been a while since I’ve seen updates for the Rflkt and I was beginning to wonder if the commitment was waning.

    So my question here is whether Wahoo sees Elemnt as part of the line up or whether it is a replacement for Rflkt. I’m sort of hoping for the former but I would understand if the Rflkt didn’t yield as much as expected in the market.

  66. David

    1) Any plans for integration with Trainer Road? It’d be cool if I could upload my TR workout for my KICKR to the ELEMNT and just run it from there.

    2) Can a Wahoo watch be far behind? ;)

  67. Scott E

    With respect to Di2 integration, can a user set up the Elemnt to change pages via the DuraAce Hood Buttons?

    This is an available setting in some of the newer Garmin units, and of course requires changes in the Shimano eTube settings.

    Ray does a great pre-product launch summary, yet the fact that many of these types of questions are getting answered early sure brings a lot more confidence over other units already in the market.

  68. Mayhem

    Will the unit support Shimano Di2 D-Fly integration? Not that I care all that much about displaying/logging gear information, but being able to switch data screens using the hidden buttons on the Dura-Ace hoods is super nice and the low battery warning has more than once helped me remember to put the bike on recharge!

  69. Nick L

    Looks really, really interesting! Any view on windows phone compatibility, either 8.1 or 10?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry, No plans for Windows support at this stage.

    • Nick L

      Ah, shame. Given that Garmin doesn’t, it could give you yet another unique… Might be worth investigating as it’s possible to run Android stuff on W10, and you can take advantage of the platform’s unique features with minor changes.

  70. Ian S

    Awesome, a competitor to garmin. Functionality wise it looks as if it covers all the bases, priced ok, so if Wahoo actually test the product and all the features work (are you listening Garmin….) then we can all switch over to a bug free world…

  71. Maksim

    Is it planned to sell bundles? HR + Speed/Cadence? As combo for easy and a bit less pricey start?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We will let you know a little bit further down the line, but we have done combos in the past and you will see them again in the future.

  72. Attached is the official render of the ELEMNT, showing colors, logos, page view, etc.

    And here’s a brochure, good information on mounts, screens (map, elevation, live track, alerts), KICKR control: link to assets.brandfolder.com

    Their presentation says it supports “multiple profiles”, that’s a hint on the multiple bike support, I’d think.

  73. Bob

    Looks very promising Wahoo, really looking forward to more detailed review/info!

    In the meantime, regarding the mount(s), what about those of us who have aero, non-round handlebars? The round mount won’t fit on ovalized bars/stem. Do you have an “rubber bands” mount option, similar to Garmin without the quarter turn? More and more bikes don’t have traditional round bars and a suitable/easy way to mount would be greatly appreciated!

  74. Zom

    I know a lot of people are bashing the aesthetic, but the display looks e-inkish, and looks like it is very easy to read in direct sunlight (side by side with the garmin seems to confirm this). The maps are a bit on the uglier side, but i will take function over form all day when it comes to a device like this. I’ll wait for it to come out to make a verdict.

  75. Jeffrey Miesemer

    I’ve been not so patiently waiting for a worthy Garmin competitor… I’m on my 4th Edge 510 in two years. The ELEMNT has definitely made my short list and I’m glad Leyzine has been dragging their feet on releasing the Super GPS in the USA. If nothing else pops up at InterBike I will be making my preorder on the ELEMNT.

    Is there a rough draft of the user manual available yet?

  76. Andre

    I didn’t see any information on the amount of memory available for maps and whether it will accept a micro SD card.

    • Maksim

      Andre, just in MAPPING section:
      The mapping uses OpenStreetMap (OSM), and the unit comes pre-loaded with the entire world.
      And in comments somewhere – maps would be periodically updated via WiFi.
      So, here is simply no need in micro SD.

    • Andre

      Thanks. That will teach me to do a quick search for the words memory and micro Sd.

  77. Greg

    I’m a 510 user and have had issues with BlueTooth connectivity with my unit. It just seems to get finnicky here and there. Even with all of Garmin’s firmware updates it just goes in and out at times. I love using the live tracking feature on the 510, but the most annoying thing is when it disconnects the data on the live tracking page my followers see is distorted. Very annoying. They find it annoying too. Is the Element going to have reliable BT connection? Will data get distorted on live tracking? Will it work well with my iPhone? Just want reassurance that phone to bike computer connection is very reliable!

  78. Happy Runner

    With the current KICKR iPhone app, you can not have the ability control the KICKR and also display power and HR all on the same page. Often promised by Wahoo, but never implemented.

    It sounds like this could be configured to have KICKR control, HR and Power all on the same page?

    Will Wahoo ever update the iPhone app to have KICKR control, HR and Power all on the same page? In EGR mode, HR and Power are probably the data fields most athletes want to monitor, in addition to being able to control the KICKR

    • Wahoo Murray

      We have big plans for our iOS and Android apps over the next 12 months, I can’t talk about anything specific yet but we have plenty of great stuff in the pipeline.

    • peter

      What about a Windows Phone app? If that is not on the roadmap, it’s a no-go for me…

  79. JB

    I currently use a Garmin Edge 800 and while it’s been working flawless for 3.5 yrs now, I think I’m due for an upgrade. I use the maps often and I’m wondering: would this be a good “upgrade”?

    Ray mentioned the word “breadcrumbs” which kinda turned me off. It reminded me of the breadcrumb trail of the Edge 500 which is useless in my opinion.

    If Murray or Ray can provide a feedback I’d appreciate it.

    • Wahoo Murray

      ELEMNT supports following a pre-planned route path with on-route/off-route detection (and alerts). ELEMNT will not do any route calculation its self, only follow a route you have already pre-planned. With a smart phone connection there is lots of things possible, but this is how it will work at launch.

      Keep your eye out and I will try and put together a blog on our website with a few more details on the Maps and Route support.

    • Rich Jones

      Having had an awful ride trying to use TBT on a Garmin 500, definitely interested in the mapping/routing options on the new ELEMNT…

      …If one thing, letting me know *before* I’m at a junction that I need to turn, rather than alerting me when I’ve overshot it.

    • Michael

      Hi Murray-

      Wow, this sounds GREAT and thank you for following up with some answers. FWIW, I’m in the same boat as JB and so I wonder about the devil you know vs the one you don’t. I currently use a “long in the tooth (but dependable)” Garmin 800. I like to ride new routes and rely heavily on the Garmin 800 mapping functions. I create my course in advance using RideWithGPS and follow it (or cancel it). As long as I stay on the course, I’ve never gotten lost. While riding, I use the following mapping features:

      * If I am unfamiliar with the route, I like to use the map to get a perspective of where I am on the course (cross streets/landmarks/etc).
      * I always use turn-by-turn notifications. The “getting close” and “turn now” visual/audible alarms are very important.
      * I like to see the name of the street I will be turning onto.
      * If I’m familiar with the area, I hide the map and use a “distance to next turn“ field on the data screen (and use the map popups to direct me through the turns).
      * The cue sheet is helpful when I want to preview the course (or see what’s coming after a rest stop).

      I never use the Garmin to reroute the course (my phone is much better at that).
      I do rely on the Garmin to notify me when I’m off course and when I’ve returned.

      IMO, a video of the ELEMNT performing these functions would be invaluable to my decision to purchase.

      Thanks for listening.

    • DAN SEKERA

      exactly!!! perfect saved me a great deal of typing. This is the deal maker for me. should it work this way I’m sold. if it cannot I’ll stick with the garmin

    • Michael

      Dan-

      Sounds like we use the Garmin the same way.

      For my old eyes, I think the increased contrast and higher resolution screen of the ELEMNT will be exactly what I’m looking for. Of course IMO, the achilles heel for these TBT GPS units these days seems to be battery life. Get those numbers up and they’ll have a winner.

    • David

      It would be cool if the ‘Mario’ lights started flickering in a turn pattern as you approached the turn with speed of the flicker intensifying until the actual turn time when it turned solid, solid on the appropriate side of the next turn.

  80. Rob S

    Encouraging that the Kickr control is in there. Does this mean that the FE-C standards will be in the Kickr soon to allow control from Garmin Edge 1000/520 ?

  81. Kelly

    It sounds like the IOS apps are not “finished” yet, and here’s my STRONG request that the apps be VoiceOver tested before release. My initial KICKR apps were mostly VoiceOver compatable, but subsequent updates lost this accessibility… Luckily I kept the older version and now I’m afraid of updating and losing my KICKR controls.

    Question regarding GPS routes controlling the KICKR, Could I track the route by car and get the same KICKR control quality for the terrain?

    Thanks.

    • Wahoo Murray

      I’ve added a ticket in our system to test for VoiceOver so hopefully we can make sure we have that covered.

      There shouldn’t be any problem recording the route by car.

  82. Harold Overman

    I think I am sold on this device, great job Wahoo! I was on the verge of purchasing a Garmin 520 and saw the announcement on it, and like others have said in this thread I felt like I was in a corner with the Garmin platform, even with all the horrible software support it has. I can hold out a few more weeks since the season is over for me.

    Quick question on the Wi-Fi… does it support both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands? For dense living environments (apartments / townhomes), all the neighbors are running 2.4 GHz which leads to a lot of interference on Wi-Fi (not mention they run on channels between 1,6, or 11 making things even worse). I only run 5 GHz as hardly anyone uses that band. This is not a showstopper for me, but I would need to turn on my 2.4 GHz radio in my access point if it only supports 2.4 GHz.

  83. Steve

    This looks very good. About time someone produced a bike computer with everything on it.

    When is it available in the UK? I want one.

  84. Kevin K

    Reference to Michael #171
    TBT is an absolute must but must work from the metrics screen with a popup ‘X’ amount of yards from the turn.
    So that we don’t have to constantly watch the map to see where we are going.

    Another question when pulling planned routes from either Strava or Ride with GPS remotely will we need premium accounts with either of these services for this to work?

  85. Chris Rider

    I always want to love Wahoo products, but the RFLCT+ let me down extremely badly, as the app crashed any time I went for a long ride – this was especially frustrating when I did my first ever long (240Km) race and it crashed about 4 or 5 times. They knew it was an issue at the start of the summer, but never got it fixed.

    I’m glad to see that this is no longer dependent on the app, so hopefully it will work a lot better. Looking forward to giving it a try!

  86. pavlinux

    COMPATIBLE WITH FIRSTBEAT HR TOOLS – TBD

    What is TBD and which tools? Athlete/Sports? or Bodyguard2/HRM strap

  87. pavlinux

    > COMPATIBLE WITH FIRSTBEAT HR TOOLS – TBD

    What is TBD and which tools? Athlete/Sports? or Bodyguard2/HRM strap

  88. Marco Soldano

    Props for going open standard on the quarter turn.
    Hopefully you took care of your firmware, better than you did on the RFLKT, great idea, very sucky user experience.
    It’s time somebody kicks Garmin in the arse.

  89. Keith Duco

    Will it be able to accept a tcx file from RWGPS that has custom cues? I like using the cuesheet screen on my 520. It shows the turn direction and distance/time to next cue point. Will there be a similar feature on the ELEMNT?

  90. Santo

    So a device that plays with Garmin Connect that isn’t from Garmin? Someone needs to shut up and take my money.

  91. Robert L

    For longer races a 17 hour battery life is too short. Is it possible to plug in an auxiliary battery to extend the battery life while it’s being used?

  92. Tom Peach

    I, like others, have a Garmin 810 due to lack of other viable options, it’s a truly terrible device, very unstable.

    I really hope the elemnt is
    – Stable, my Garmin frequently crashes under normal use, it’s just not good enough in this day and age
    – Actually able to last 17 hours on battery, the 810 lasts less then 12 with backlight off etc
    – Able to run when connected to an external power source (USB battery pack) for longer rides

    I hope Wahoo also keep their great level of support as they grow, I had an issue with my Kickr that was diagnosed remotely and a spare sent by post to fix, 10 out of 10.

    I’m likely to sell my 810 on ebay if first reports of the elemnt are good.

  93. Richard Kelly

    Looks like a potentially great unit.

    Will the ELEMNT have a W’ (W ‘prime’) indication?

  94. Maksim

    Wahoo Murray, you have mentioned in comment, what it is possible to get notifications from other apps (WhatsApp, etc). Is it possible, that one day here comes notifications from Google Maps navigation?

  95. Rich Jones

    One thing I’ve been thinking about – would there be any possibility of a demo unit to ‘try’, much like how I can borrow a saddle from a cycle shop (a nice, bright purple Fizik) to get to know it over a course of rides (real world situation).

    I, as a potential customer, put down credit card details, or deposit (or some way of guaranteeing the return of the unit to Wahoo) – I then get a couple of weeks/month to use the unit in anger with my set-up. If I don’t like it, I return, Wahoo refund and I walk away – if I do, Wahoo takes the money, I return the demo unit on receipt, Wahoo sends me out a retail version.

    As a customer:
    – I get to trial the unit in a real world situation, riding (not a video, not stuck in a shop)
    – I get to be an ambassador (riding with friends “What’s that purple thing?” “Oh, it’s a Wahoo Head Unit”
    – I get to try before I buy (it’s not an inexpensive purchase)

    For me this says so much more about the belief the company has in its product (and totally get the way Wahoo have been commenting on this thread), and also lines up ‘being’ customer centric.

    Anyway – just a thought.

    • Maksim

      Rich, on the Wahoo website:
      no hassle returns within 30 days
      So, you can always try unit for 30 days without problems :)

    • Rich Jones

      Ah, good point Maksim thanks – though personally I’d still be concerned that I wouldn’t get my money back if the unit wasn’t pristine (but if the good people at Wahoo honour this, ‘ie. no hassle’ then that’s very cool).

  96. Rich Jones

    Oh, and if I could set the side LEDs to ‘matches burnt’ in a race = take my money now!

  97. Bruce Burkhalter

    Murray –

    Just curious. Why was it important to get the entire world OSM to fit on the device? Assuming that 99% of the people are going to be doing 99% of their rides in the same town/area, wouldn’t it have been easier to just split it up into various regions or continents to load as needed?

    Bruce

    • Wahoo Murray

      Because I actually move my office every 4 weeks, So I need world maps :)

      Its for Simplicity, we wanted to make the out of box experience the best we could and that meant having USA, Europe, Aus and NZ (our biggest markets) pre-installed. Since maps are relatively large its not possible to send over bluetooth so WiFi becomes a requirement before you could use maps. We would then need some way to manage maps, while not a huge task its something we identified as a problem with current bike computers. Once we decided we wanted those markets pre-installed we realised thats 90% of the world (in storage size) so we decided to go the whole hog.

  98. Mike Robinson

    I asked a previous question about the possibility of supporting a handlebar mounted remote to switch between screens, start/stop laps and the like. (I don’t have Di2 so this isn’t an option for me!)

    If would be great if Wahoo could give an indication if this is being considered at all as part of your roadmap.

    This is something that would definitely persuade me to jump ship from Garmin as on paper anyway, the ELEMNT seems to tick a lot of boxes.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yes its definitely on the roadmap, I don’t exactly know when yet but since the foundation will be already in place due to the Di2 support, its only a matter of supporting the correct ANT+ profile as well.

  99. I’m liking the mapping. Above all, I’m liking the clarity of it: All I want to see is roads. No street names, no clutter, just high-contrast roads. Get this right, and get the turn/off-course notifications right, and you might just have my money. IME, Garmin’s maps lack clarity and the navigation is buggy.

    I see two flaws with the unit, though:

    First, the position of the USB port is a problem for me. I mount my Garmin on my stem (I often have other things mounted on the bar) and I need the ability to charge while riding. That’s not possible with this unit, which is a real shame.

    Second, I don’t find zip ties anything like as good as rubber O-rings for the mount. I guess not everyone agrees, though.

    Good to see someone finally offering decent competition for the Edge 8-series, though.

    • Maksim

      I think, if unit mounted on the stem, it is still possible to charge with 90° angled USB cable. And do you really can ride 17 hours non-stop???

    • Mike Robinson

      90 degree micro USB cables need about 10mm space to fit so a stem mount would still need to provide at least that amount of clearance from the back of the ELEMNT.

    • If there’s enough space to get some sort of cable in there then that would be good. It looks unlikely, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

      And, yes :)

      I guess for the infrequent occasions that I do need more than 17 hours it’d just be a matter of using the out-front mount, though…

    • Steve

      No one rides for 17hours, stop being an arse and pretending youre some kind of cycling god.

    • John

      “There are more things in heaven and earth, Steve,
      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

    • Robert L

      See the Race Across America Challenge 400 mile races. It’s sad but true, we couldn’t hold up a 23.53+ mph average speed for 400 miles so it ran over 17 hours.

      Wahoo answered my question saying that plugging in an auxiliary battery to extend battery life is possible so it’s all good.

  100. Johnny

    I’d be really interested to know if this could function as a bridge for the powermatch function in Trainerroad. As an SRM and Kickr owner it would be a real boost for me.

  101. Carl

    Feature request- It would be great if the unit could be used in a horizontal “landscape” mode.

  102. Pit

    Hi,
    Looks like an awesome device. I think of would be really nice for us to have something like an efficiency factor (Power divided by Heart Rate) and customizable Workouts and Training zones for heart rate as well as power.

  103. Troy

    Wow
    Looks promising. In the market for dedicated unit..Just about went w/ the 520 – can catch this on sale through very sites too. and CT of course

    At $329, not sure why this would not be set at $299 price point as the Garmin 520?

    Please offer a bundle offer:)

  104. Hilltopper

    I returned my Garmin 510 bundle because the heart rate never worked — even after 3 replacement straps. I was advised I could “fix” the straps or use different brands. I never felt like I should have to “fix” a brand new device.

    So, I then bought a RFLKT+ with HR strap and speed cadence sensors. Everything paired and worked fine except altitude and temperature. I contacted support and they sent a new RFLKT+, same thing, temperature and altitude flat don’t work. This is very aggravating to me, I bought this unit because I was dissatisfied with Garmin. These functions are not essential I suppose, but I spent $30 extra to get them.

    So all this ranting boils down to this. Does the thing work? Do all of the functions really work?

    • The majority of features (on the beta unit) seem to work and are stable. There’s still some stuff of course that’s being implemented (for example, I couldn’t demo the friend feature, as noted) – as that’s underway.

      And things that were oddities I saw back in Eurobike that are already cleaned up now, just two weeks later.

      But ultimately, that’s what the in-depth review is about.

  105. Jono H

    Wifi:

    Does it support 802.11N?
    Does it support 802.11AC?
    Does it support multiple access ports with the same SSID (EG one for the front of the house and one for the back)?
    Does it support a login screen (EG like at McDonalds)?
    Does it support passwords less than 8 characters?

    (Just asking, because the answers are ‘no’ for my FR920XT)

    and in my experience, the FR920XT can’t do AES encryption either.

  106. Greg

    Ray,

    Any idea what the live tracking feature will show to someone who is following? I know I have had friends want to watch me in a TT and others who have done the same. Since we like the numbers I wasn’t sure if it’ll display basic metric on live tracking like Garmin’s does.

    Thanks!

  107. Bob

    My Garmin 810 freezes randomly and is hard to see when navigating. Its about time someone blew Garmin out of the market with their over priced sub standard products.

  108. Peter T

    Will be interesting to see how accurate the battery life is? One weclomed feature that would be good is to plan a route on your phone and send it to the device. Looks like you could do this now with Locus maps app and dropbox or email.

  109. Rob Montgomery

    Any chance it will become compatible with Suunto’s Movescount? I prefer their watches to Garmin simply because they have less “bugs” or so it seems. But one thing Suunto is lacking itself is a dedicated bike GPS. I’m not a fan of just attaching a watch to my bike.

  110. Mike Hensen

    Holy comment section batman! This is a longer read than an in depth Ray review

  111. Kevin Dwyer

    My wife has a Garmin Edge touring with Open Cycle Maps installed, the Garmin will display ” Riding on Route 25 ” when she is on the National Cycle route number 25 ( in the UK )
    Just wondered if Wahoo had considered Open Cycle Map ?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Kevin,

      OpenStreetMap and OpenCycleMaps are the same thing, the latter simply styles the map towards things that are of interest to Cyclists but the data is the same.

    • Kevin Dwyer

      Hi Murray,
      Open Cycle Map will display a legend alongside the route ( Route 25 ) for example.
      It will also pop up ” Riding on Route 25 ” onto the Garmin screen.
      This didn’t happen with OSM so perhaps there is extra data in Open Cycle Map ?
      Can other Garmin users verify this please, perhaps i’m missing something ?

    • Kevin Dwyer

      Just to add, this is easier to see in Viewranger, where the OSM just shows a dotted line, Open Cycle Map shows a highlighted dotted line with the Route number showing at intervals.

    • Wahoo Murray

      The underlying data is the same, its only a different in presentation.

      I guess the answer to your question is No, ELEMNT won’t currently give you a indication of the road you are on but its something on our roadmap.

  112. Maksim

    Hi Murray,

    Is it possible to get notifications from Google Maps navigation on ELEMNT?

  113. Yemble

    Good luck with this, wahoo folks. Seems quite ambitious based on comments here, but sounds like you’re doing a lot of things right. Garmin devices have always been disappointing in serious ways.. but no real competition.

    I especially like:

    – complete maps preloaded and updatable
    – sync routes from ridewithgps
    – bluetooth + ant

    Question: is it possible to pan around the map, or only zoom in/out?

  114. ThomasR

    Nice! Was thinking of a 520 to replace my 510, but this looks so much better. A couple of things though:
    1. Ray says “If indoors, you can rely purely on sensors for speed/distance, and turn off the GPS functionality.” I would like to do this within profile configuration, having an Indoor profile with GPS off, makes no sense having to manually turn off GPS every single time indoors. Possible on the 520 but not on the 510. Highly annoying. What about the Elemnt?
    2. I would really want to send the link for Live tracking using iMessage instead of email. It’s a more direct way of telling family when I leave. People will notice a message immediately, with email I would need to tell/message them separately, “Check your email for the link”.

    • Wahoo Murray

      1. In most cases you need to turn GPS off, We have made it the first item in the settings so it only takes 2 button presses to do so. The exception is KICKR where the GPS will be turned off automatically. Profiles are for page setups.

      2. The best we can do is present a pre-compiled iMessage, we can’t automatically send it due to iOS restrictions. In this case you would need to unlock the phone and send it.

    • ThomasR

      1. Two button presses is not bad, but still unnecessary. Would you consider doing it automatically for other trainers, i.e. when trainer is present -> disable GPS? As part of FE-C trainer control, maybe?
      2. Ok, given the restrictions.
      Came to think of another issue I have with other units:
      3. I would really like to have control of what is sent to Strava, is it or could it be possible to tie uploads to profiles, eg. upload races to Strava and TP, but regular rides to TP only, using separate profiles? I got my hopes up seeing it under the Profile tab, but maybe it’s just the same name for two different things.

    • Wahoo Murray

      1. Definitely would be the same for other trainers that we support.

      2. I’ve added a feature request for sending a SMS (not a iMessage) using a 3rd party service, this would allow us to send a regular SMS to a standard mobile number.

      3. Right now we are trying to keep things simple with profiles and not cover every possible combination a user might want, not to say we are not listening, we will add what we need. I think in this case you would disable automatic upload and manually upload each file. Either way I’ve added the feature to our backlog and it will get reviewed at our next planning meeting.

    • ThomasR

      1. Was thinking of general support, including other manufacturers, was hoping it would be possible to recognise a trainer as such, using ANT+/BLE, but maybe it’s not.
      2. Cool!
      3. Really appreciate this, even just considering it. For me, it would be kind of a privacy setting, wanting to share sessions with others, but not everything. Manual upload, well, not interested :-) Your list of supported sites, on day one, is impressive, btw.

    • John

      3. Agree. The problem with logging rides to the cloud is the all-or-nothing nature of the privacy settings.

      For example, I probably log less than 5% of my rides to Strava but connect.garmin.com wants to send over every ride, or none.

    • You don’t have to log to a 3rd party service, but can simply shoot out the files via e-mail to yourself.

    • Wahoo Murray

      When I say “Manual” I don’t mean getting the file and manually going to each site to upload, Its super simple to just open the workout in our phone app and quickly tap on the services you wish to upload to, takes seconds.

    • ThomasR

      Aah ok, that’s better. I still think that this is just the kind of thing that a computer/phone should take care of though. Set and forget.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      How? My released firmware seems to be missing a share-via-email option in the ride summary page.

  115. DAN SEKERA

    since yours will not do the car-like navigation how about i just send my garmin 810 to wahoo and wahoo takes it and puts their screen on it. Then I have the best of both worlds :)

  116. Maksim

    Murray, is it possible to use ELEMNT on some bikes (with saved wheel diameter for each, for example)?

  117. Steve

    Murray, is it possible for the screen to be half map and half information? So have maybe 4 data fields on the top half and the map filling the bottom half?

  118. Steve

    Also, is it possible to use the LED indicators as turn signals for the map? Like a visual alert to trun left or right?

  119. Eli

    For those interested in the display something tells me this is the LCD panel used: link to sharpmemorylcd.com

  120. Greg

    Any plans for Ant+ remote (Garmin) connectivity?

  121. Steve

    This looks promising, but having been an early adopter with previous Garmin units, I’m still going to wait to see if it performs as stated. It seems like the Wahoo folks are at least listening to consumers, but execution will be where the proof is – and I’ll wait to see. It is unfortunate that Garmin’s awful product performance has jaded me, but perhaps the good folks at Wahoo will release a product that performs just as they say it will. I certainly hope so!

    For those concerned about the mount compatibility, there is this:
    http://www.dogearsgps.com
    If the Wahoo folks have a look at it and design the case so that the 2 little screws can be safely and securely inserted, then all the newly happy ex-Garmin users can continue to use their existing mounts. It only adds a few mm to the stack height.

    Steve

  122. Hammer

    Is Garmin’s Varia rear radar system all in house through private Ant? Or is it open where Wahoo has the ability to connect with it? If it is open any plans for the future connecting with Varia? I think the system is great and practical for many riders. Love to be able to use this with Element!

    • My understanding is that it’s a mixture. The light portion is open ANT+, using the lighting control profile. Whereas the radar piece is private-ANT.

      So Wahoo could implement support for the open ANT+ piece, and that’d be compatible with at a minimum the light portions of both Garmin and Bontrager’s products. And then depending on how much trouble Wahoo wanted to go to, they could also implement the private-ANT piece.

  123. Joe C

    Does anyone know if it supports the metric Kilojoules? It’s missing from the RFLKT+.

  124. Bob

    Thank you Wahoo for coming out with anything that competes with Garmin, AND being as receptive and open with us on this forum. Order placed! can’t wait to kick Garmin to the curb.

  125. Stephen Thomas

    Sweet!. I’ve finally found the upgrade to my Edge 800. Since Wahoo has so much experience with ANT+ and BTLE sensors, I wonder if they have anything planned that could solve one of my pet peeves for BTLE and triathlons: the one-to-one pairing limitation. I understand the BTLE spec now permits one-to-many pairing, but no one seems to have implemented it. This is a bit of a problem in triathlons since most folks are going to have both a watch (for the swim and the run) and a bike computer (so they can see bike data easily.) I guess Polar tried to address that with the heart-rate rebroadcast feature in the V800, but AFAIK that still doesn’t work. And Suunto lets you mirror the watch display in the Movescount iOS app, but no one’s going to mount their iPhone in a transition area. Seems like Polar’s approach might be the best compromise, but, of course, someone’s got to actually do it. Maybe the ELEMNT could add BTLE re-broadcast but actually make it work.

  126. Henk

    The only thing, that I need, to know: can use the device (or my phone)
    To a certain point, when, i diced to go home halfway a route?
    (Navigation)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Henk,

      I’m not sure I understand. You want to be able to Navigate home from any point along your ride? Like the Strava “Route back to Start” function?

      If that is the case, then not right now, we are not doing any route calculations, only pre-planned routes. (for launch)

  127. Maksim

    Murray, you just wrote:
    If that is the case, then not right now, we are not doing any route calculations, only pre-planned routes. (for launch)
    Is it means, what route calculations in ELEMNT can be added someday? And maybe it is already in the backlog or even roadmap? But.. this is really cool!

    • Wahoo Murray

      Lets try not to speculate on features that might or might not be included at some unknown date, I prefer to keep the discussion about the features it has now and features that we know 100% will be added before launch (or shortly after). Hope you understand.

    • Maksim

      Yes, right. Thank you, Murray!

    • Joe

      Murray,

      Can you comment on if Kilojoules will be a metric with this new computer… and if not whats the reason for leaving such an important metric off?

      Joe

    • Sterke-Jerke

      The reason I want to be able to Navigate home from any point along my ride? or something like the Strava “Route back to Start” function, is that sometimes, I get tired, and decide to call my mountainbike ride off. And take the shortest way home….

  128. John

    Wahoo Murray: Any chance you can update your Wahoo Utility app for iOS 9? It crashes the instant I hit the button to test a BT sensor (as in, completely, all the way back to the springboard). Worked fine in iOS 8.4.1. Thanks!

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry John is been stuck “In Review” with Apple for over a week! (Plus it was waiting for review for a week before that). Apple is normally really quick to review stuff around iOS releases, we have tried to reach out to Apple and just waiting for a response. We also have Segments stuck In Review. :(

    • John

      Thanks, Murray!

    • John

      Version 3.0 indeed fixed the problem with iOS 9! Thanks again, Murray!

  129. JU

    Hello Murray,

    I’m considering to buy KICKR and ELEMNT from Japan.

    1. Can map display Double Byte Character Set (DBCS) or Multiple Byte Character Set (MBCS) or Universal multi-octet Character Set 4(UCS-4) ?
    Japanese character (Kanji/Hiragana/Katakana) normally use DBCS. I would like to know whether the ELEMNT map can avoid character corruption by supporting that. OSM displays many Japanese in Japan area map.

    2. Does GPS receiver support Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS) ?
    QZSS increase the availability and performance of GPS in Japan.

    3. Will Wahoo Fitness app for iOS recognize the value of cadence and speed via 4iiii Viiiiva?
    Currently Wahoo Fitness app for iOS recognizes only heart rate and doesn’t recognize cadence (by using Garmin GSC-10 sensor. Other apps can recognize it). Wahoo Fitness app for Android recognizes heart rate, cadence and speed (I heard it from my friend).

  130. Mike

    I saw the comment earlier about no plans for support for mobile Windows devices. Will the ELEMNT be at all usable without an android or iOS product? If, by chance, I was able to temporarily use a proper mobile device for set up will it be usable as a stand alone bike computer when I no longer have access to that mobile device?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yes, All the core settings can still be done from the device, You will need a iOS/Android device to configure pages (the defaults are dynamic based on sensors) and to setup wifi/sharing.

  131. bww

    Looks good, nice screen res, I really hope this works well so I can throw my garbagmin 810 where it belongs, AND tell them to shove it. (seems a common sentiment)

  132. Ventura

    Looks really good! Will I be able to pair my Garming HR and Garming cadence sensor with it?

  133. Mark Hewitt

    I know with Kickr support you are all about supporting your own products which is understandable. However in the spirit of the openness which your company has pioneered in this space are you going to support ANT+FE/C trainers such as those made by Tacx too?

    PS. I bought a Garmin 520 and while initially impressed I’ve found it clunky. This device has a much more ‘modern’ approach.

    • Wahoo Murray

      I can’t promise ANT+ FE/C for launch, BUT its currently been worked on and we hope to have it ready for launch. Openness and support for as many devices/services are high on our list.

    • Mark Hewitt

      Now see. 5 minutes to answer that question. Keep up that level of support. This is what we like.

  134. Mark Hewitt

    I’m interested in this because although I have a Garmin 520, I find it fiddly and awkward to use, the user interface is poor and the connection to my phone is flakey to say the least. Plus Garmin hasn’t entirely given up their obsession to having to plug the thing into a USB cable to a PC, they still require that for firmware updates, which is crazy.

    This unit looks good in terms of what it does, not crazy about the styling, it looks a bit 1st gen and cheap to me, for what is quite an expensive product I would have expected better. Mind you it’s still better looking than the RFKLT which always looked like a university science project that was released by accident.

  135. Does it track odometer for multi-bike functionality? Does it use the detestable “sensor pool” functionality? Or does it know which sensor belong to which bike? Or does it not have multi-bike functionality at all?

  136. Aaron C

    Ok, so I’m looking for some advice. I am fairly new to the cadence sensor/cyclocomputer scene. For the past 3 or 4 years, I’ve been using Strava on my Samsung GS5 paired with a BLE/Ant+ HRM. I’ve been fine with this setup, and have enjoyed logging my rides and tracking progress. I’ve been interested more recently in adding cadence tracking to my logs. In my research, I determined that I wanted to be able to see live HRM/Cadence/Speed data on my handlebar while riding… I know my phone could possibly do this but it would definitely drain the battery much more quickly. So began the search for a basic computer to display the data I wanted as well as continue to retain the data on my phone to upload to strava. So, I’ve been reading and reading about cadence/speed sensors and cyclocomputers – mostly on this website. I think I narrow it down to what I want, then I come across a new technology or conflicting opinions. :) I guess my first question would be, what cadence/speed sensor would you recommend at this time for my situation (Mostly road cycling in summer and MTB in the winter – all for fitness/training)? I’m currently leaning towards the Garmin speed and cadence sensors that you reviewed recently or the Wahoo Blue SC with BLE/Ant+ capability. Ant+ seems the way to go, as they can broadcast data to 2 separate devices (phone and cyclocomputer). Thanks for your help!

    • Aaron C

      Oh, and with my current setup, I do have a wireless speed sensor on the bike that displays speed, distance and current time…

    • Adding ANT+ or BLE sensors to your S5 setup will have a very marginal impact on battery life. The big things for the phone batter life are the display which you presumably already have on. The gps which you also already have on. Any real – time data usage e.g. real time downloading of maps. Your S5 with suitable software is probably good for 10+ hours screen and gps on all the time. Modern phones have moved on a lot in this regard in the last few years. The technology is better and the phones getting bigger means the battery is bigger.

  137. Colin

    Why not design it so it can be set up without a smartphone? I realize that smartphone attached is kind of wahoo’s gig, but it would at least bridge the gap a little for Windows phone users.

  138. Ceann

    Pre-ordered! I’m looking forward to receiving my first ever bike computer. I’ve enjoyed the Wahoo tickr and tickr x. I am hoping that Wahoo continues its excellent customer support and products even as gains in marketshare.

  139. Putting this here since Murray seems to still be following the thread, even though it isn’t about the ELEMNT. I’m an Android user of the RFLKT+, which means I must use the Wahoo app. In the last week I’ve had the most tragic thing happen twice: the phone battery died. To add insult to injury, the last thing I hear is the Wahoo lady announcing my (three) sensors have disconnected.

    There’s no time between that and the phone shutting off. I wish the Android app, since it obviously supports voice notifications, had a low battery warning or two. That way I could connect a booster battery.

  140. wuqingwei

    I just care about when can I bought this awsome device from China with a proper price

  141. Marco Soldano

    So today I returned my Garmin Edge 520 after 1 month of frustrating use, dropping my Bluetooth sensors, firmware updating issues and phone sync basically not working ever, in addition to the the usual clunkiness in the ui that Garmin is so good at.
    Looking forward to get this puppy, i played with it at InterBike and i have to say it has potential.
    Hopefully Wahoo SQA will do a good job of clearing bugs before release.
    Any update on the release date?
    Any coupons for early adopters?
    Ciao

  142. Troy

    yes

    What @marcosoldano said

    “Any coupons for early adopters “:) ???

    ” Hopefully Wahoo SQA will do a good job of clearing bugs before release.
    Any update on the release date?
    Any coupons for early adopters? “

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry we don’t have any coupons for early adopters,

      No update on release, we will let everyone know via Ray once we have a solid shipping date from the manufacture. Everything is tracking well and our entire team is currently focused 100% of software quality.

    • Steve

      > our entire team is currently focused 100% of software quality.

      This is good to hear; G****n lost it for me with the poor quality; I’ve just sent back my device for a full refund thanks to Amazon, I’m never buying their computers again, so I can’t wait to try the Elemnt.

  143. Troy

    Never hurts to ask

    Thanks Wahoo Murray

  144. Kirk

    Does it have a backlight for the display for riding in the dark? Some of my rides occur after I get off work and will often end just before dark.

  145. Bill B

    Will it be possible to control wireless lights like the Bontrager Transmitr Ant+ ones?

  146. Mark Hewitt

    Any plans to make the out front mount compatible with other devices? I’m thinking in particular that on outside rides I want to be using a computer, but a lot of my rides are indoor on Zwift where I want to mount my phone, for which I usually use a quadlock but that would get in the way of the Wahoo mount? So some way to use the computer mount to put on an iphone would be very useful!

  147. Mark Hewitt

    It said release in November, it’s now November, so can we be more specific? Also is it going to be available in the UK then too? In some fashion which doesn’t involve having to get it shipped from the USA?

  148. Mike Robinson

    The article says availability by Black Friday (27 November)

    It seems this date is become an event for UK retailers as well.

    Clearly Wahoo will be missing out on business if the product isn’t available and ready to ship in volumes by then.

    • Mark Hewitt

      Ah right, cheers! That’s a way off but not too bad, as it’s not a Christmas present – except perhaps to myself!

      Although it does make me despair that Black Friday is a thing in the UK now :(

  149. Kai

    Hi Murray,

    does the unit Provide a reading of outside temperature? I know the garmins has this option, and it does come in handy sometimes.

    cheers

  150. Scott L

    Hi Murray,

    Apologies if this is a bit off thread but does Wahoo have any plans for a multisports watch? I, like a number of people here, are keen to move away from Garmin if possible but up until now there have been few viable alternatives. As a potential Kickr/Elemnt user I was wondering if there is a Fenix 3 / 920XT alternative in the pipeline? Any words Ray?

    • Stephen Thomas

      Well, I think a lot of folks would consider the Polar V800 and the Suunto Ambit3 to be viable alternatives. Although I wouldn’t complain at all if Wahoo added some more competition in the market.

      (Disclosure: I returned my Fenix 3 to REI after getting fed up with its horrible GPS performance for trail running. Couldn’t be happier with my Ambit3 sport.)

  151. Cranky Minion

    I’m interested but the lack of standard mount is a major blow to me. I have the Giant SLR aero handle bar with a non-circular cross section. It’s a major pain to find an out front mount already which I did find eventually. Stem mount is no go. Now I have to find another mount that’s also unique to the bike computer. Why the “lightning” mount?

    • Wahoo Murray

      What you you mean by “lightning” mount? I’m not sure what the question is.

      The Garmin mount isn’t a standard mount, it’s a Garmin mount, owned and licensed by Garmin, this makes it unavailable for it to be used by other companies.

      We are shipping the device with 3 mounts and working with several 3rd party mount manufactures for additional options.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Who makes the one you have now?

      Also, as mentioned above its not that hard to modify them to work with the ELEMNT, Ray did this for one of his photos.

    • Cranky Minion

      You are correct about the Garmin 1/4 turn. It is proprietary but it’s been so popular that it’s now practically a standard at consumer’s level. Wahoo didn’t use it on the RFLKT for no reason I assume. Why deviate from it unless there is some technical difficulties? If Garmin is the one stopping Wahoo from using it then that answers my question. How did you guys get permission to use it for the RFLKT? I’m using a mount similar to the one made by Fourier at the moment. link to fouriers-bike.com
      I have to see if I can switch out the pad.
      The lighning mount is just my Apple joke.
      I’m a loyal Wahoo fan. I have the BlueSC, Tickr, RFLKT, RFLKT+, Kickr, the elemnt could be the new member. Make it easy for me please.

    • “it’s proprietary” == “garmin can choose to license it or not”. Probably not in Garmin’s best interest to license it to a company that is becoming a direct competitor.

    • Cranky Minion

      Like I said if Garmin is using its right on the patent to stop Wahoo from using a compatible mount, so be it. My struggle is not so much to have a mount that works with Garmin. I don’t even own one product made by Garmin. I have both the RFLKT and the RFLKT+. I have aftermarket mounts that work the way I want them. It just happened that they are all Garmin compatible mount. So what’s with the flip flopping design by the same company? If Garmin is letting Wahoo use it before and now they change their mind, then I guess both Wahoo and myself got screwed. To summerize, it appears that the elemnt is not compatible to mounts that work with RFLKT or the RFLKT+, that’s a problem for me as a customer.

    • A few random points/thoughts:

      A) In the case of the RFLKT/RFLKT+, Wahoo technically included a back plate mount that was user swappable. That essentially made it easy in the event Garmin ever had heartburn, you just swapp out a plastic part that costs a few cents and doesn’t hose up your production line or existing units.

      B) I’ve heard differing things on the legality of the mount, but nobody actually licenses it today. They just use it. From a few people I’ve talked to Garmin has not filed any legal documentation with PTO or others concerning the mount itself. Of course, those people may or may not be correct. Someone with more time might be able to validate this claim on PTO’s website.

      C) On one hand, it’s clear that Wahoo is doing everything possible to make it easy for folks by including every type of mount you could need in the box. That’s appreciated.

      D) On the other hand, there are many 3rd party mounts that folks have already bought that can cost a fair bit (i.e. K-Edge & Barfly). Lack of compatibility with those mounts would personally be a blocker for me for use (i.e. the GoPro combo mount that K-Edge offers).

  152. Wahoo Murray

    For those interested, we have published the 3D drawings for both our male and female mounts. If you have any issues or questions please raise a issue on github and I will get back to you.

    link to github.com

  153. Erik

    When released will there be a bundle discount option on eu.wahoofitness.com?
    Meaning the ELEMNT, the Tickr and the blue sc cycling sensor

  154. George

    Will it be able to control Tacx Neo?

    • Steve

      Or any other ANT+ FE-C smart trainer?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yes ELEMNT will support all FE-C trainers.

    • Steve

      Great news, thanks for keeping us up to date Murray!

      Over the last couple of days I’ve had technical questions for TrainerRoad and now Wahoo and got a straight answer in no time at all. Clearly these are companies that care about their customers and employ smart and motivated people. Compare that to my difficulties of getting a straight answer at another cycle GPS company… I’m very much looking forward to getting my hands on an Elemnt now.

  155. George Nathanael

    Is it compatible with Shimano Di2 shifter buttons?

  156. Dan Kothlow

    When will the companion app be released? I’d like to check that out, to see some more of the options available for items to display on the screen of the unit.
    Or is it going to be the already released Wahoo Fitness app, and more options show when it’s paired?

    • Wahoo Murray

      It’s a new app and won’t be available until we start shipping. You won’t be able to do much without pairing a unit. I will put together some screen shots and post a link tomorrow if you like.

    • Dan Kothlow

      Thanks, Wahoo Murray!
      That would be great.
      I purchased one yesterday, but still am anxious to see what the app has in store for the ELEMNT

  157. Troy

    Thanks Wahoo Murray

    Will the ELEMNT be offered at Performance Bike?

    If so, when?

    It is not on their website ” yet ”

    Thanks

    • Wahoo Murray

      Performance Bike stock all our other products so I would assume they would also looking at stocking ELEMNT . I suggest that you email them as ask, its not something we control directly.

  158. Rob

    Looks very tempting, I may sell my Garmin 500 – one question. I have a road and MTB bike, both have ANT+ sensors and are programmed in the Garmin with different wheel circumference for speeds calculation. It also keeps an odometer for each bike. Can I do that with ELEMNT? It’s a pain to switch on the Garmin- hopefully I could do this with the app?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Wheel circumference is associated with a sensor, so if the ELEMNT is connected to that sensor then thats the wheel circumference it will use for the speed and distance calculations. No need to switch anything.

      We don’t keep odometer readings for bikes.

  159. Dan Kothlow

    I just received an email that it’s not shipping until January 2016.

    Still looking forward to a link with more screenshots of the app.

  160. Daniel Pass

    FYI – ELEMNT is delayed until about January 2016. :-( Just got an email update from Wahoo. I suspect it is still worth waiting for, although they did offer a full refund for those of us who pre-ordered.

    Me? I’ll wait. Another month or so, in the doldrums of winter aren’t much of a problem.

    • Jeff

      I am willing to wait as well. I am disappointed, but the #1 reason for me moving to the Wahoo Elemnt is due to the low quality Garmin firmware. I would rather wait and have it work as intended, then to receive it but then be disappointed with the firmware quality.

      Wahoo – take the time you need (but not too much time).

    • Wahoo Murray

      Don’t worry Jeff, None of us are getting much sleep these days. Totally bummed that we missed our thanksgiving release, but we will get it released as soon as possible!

    • Theodore T.

      Yeah, I would’ve preferred to have it now, but 90% of my recreational riding is in the summer, so I’m not complaining, assuming it ships by March or so.

    • Daniel Pass

      Product launches can be tough – new technologies, global manufacturing, demanding customer base…. I’ve been there too, and it’ll all be worthwhile the the *right* product is released.

      No worry, Murray (hey, I rhyme). We’ll all keep pedaling in the meantime!

    • alien8

      That’s great Murray..

      if it just displayed power zone, speed and recorded without crashing and transferred off ok it’d be better than my g*rmin at the moment. Poss a limited release version that we can upgrade to poor people suffering like me? :)

      go on.. ;)

    • Steve Haigh

      Echoing what others are saying, don’t be like Garmin!

      My advice as a jaded software developer: Get it stable, cut features that are not absolutely essential get the basics right and release it when it’s ready.

  161. rjdennis

    interesting to see different company strategy to product delay in light of the limits power meter approach

  162. Andy

    Hi,

    I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini which I dont believe has Bluetooth 4.0, will I be able to pair it with the Elemnt?.

  163. jim

    @Wahoo Murray – would be cool if the software could connect to non-standard bluetooth devices, such as microsoft band HR sensor

  164. George Nathanael

    @Wahoo Murray is it compatible with BSXInsight broadcast of SmO2? (more info on bsxinsight at link to dcrainmaker.com)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry for the delay… It looks like I stopped getting notifications of new posts!

      We add support with the Oxy profile but not yet storing or displaying the data, we have it scheduled for soon after post launch. We are trying to work with 3rd party sites so this information can be more useful.

    • Would that include support for multiple SmO2 sensors (thinking of the Moxy) or just one?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Multiple.

    • Can I put in a request for recording multiple power meters as well…I’ve got a friend of a friend that’s interested in that sorta thing.

    • Wahoo Murray

      For you, Request denied.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Just kidding, We do actually collect and store all sample data from all connected sensors (you can connect multiple seniors of all types). However, we would need to add support for exporting this data, I will see what strings I can pull.

    • Robert

      Hallo Murray

      Has the Elemnt Profiles for more Bikes?

      Bye Robert

    • Wahoo Murray

      We don’t really have the concept of “bike profile”

      Can you explain what you want? We allow pairing many different sensors and select the best data while you are riding. So if you have multiple bikes you just pair all the sensors.

    • Rob

      It wasn’t my question originally but I’ll add my thoughts.
      I have a road bike and MTB bike, each with their own ANT+ speed/cadence sensors. From your earlier posts it sounds like the computer will automatically pick up the correct sensor without user input- and I can store a different circumference for each wheel.

      But when I’m on my MTB I use different data than when I’m on my Road bike- it would be nice to have a different profile- one for MTB and one for road. I’m sure there are folks who would want other profiles as well. Let’s say the Road profile would display Speed/Avg Speed/Cadence/Distance/HR in that order, the MTB would preferably have Distance/Elapsed Time/Time of day/HR. I usually don’t care as much about my current speed or cadence on my MTB. Either I pick the profile with the app or even better the computer recognizes which sensor/bike is being used and it correctly picks the profile for that bike.

      That would be cool.

    • George

      So, you have to go through the “Pairing” process every time you switch to a different bike?

    • Merlin

      Or, here’s a scenario. You have 2 bikes – a road bike and MTB with separate sensors on each bike. Normally, you ride one bike or the other so the ELEMNT would just select the sensor on the bike your riding. BUT, what happens if I decide to go for a short ride around town with my road bike and my son rides my MTB? What does it do then seeing that all my sensors are going at the same time?

    • Merlin I have a similar two bikes and two sets of wheels for my road bike. I use strava to track and when ever i save a ride use the app to record the mileage on each item. If as you say your son goes out it depends who has the elemnt attached as the distance with bluetooth is not that far. If you are together then that would be interesting to see depending on the software. I was able to record a ride on strava on my phone and on the elemnt. Strava even thought I went out with another rider.
      I have not tried a two bike scenario at teh same time though.

    • Merlin

      Well, yes, I’m concerned if we are riding side by side. Which sensors is it taking the data from because all sensors could in theory be with 10 ft of the ELEMNT. If that has NOT been tested, it should be. Plus, what would happen if he wears my heart rate monitor while we’re riding? Would his heart rate be recorded on my ride? These are the questions you have to ask…..

    • Merlin I agree that you have to ask those questions but most people buy the device for one bike or person? Are you saying that you want it for two or do not want to turn off devices if they are being used by someone else?

    • Merlin

      I’m just basically asking, “What is it going to record in this particular scenario?” And if they see that an enhancement or fix needs to be done, so be it. The heart rate thing probably will never happen but I know that both of my bikes might be riding side by side at some point in time this summer. Just want a reply from Murray for his view.

    • Rob

      Think about how these work. The HR monitor sends out a signal indicating your HR. The ELEMNT pairs up with that unique radio signal. It has no way of knowing who is wearing it. If the HR strap is in range it’s going to pick up. Bluetooth range is 30′. Not sure about ANT.

      I’m guessing the ELEMNT (or any computer) will be confused if it sees two speed data sets at the same time. I have mine paired with a different speed/cadence for two bikes but I’m not riding them simultaneously. I use on HR strap and it works no matter what bike I’m on.

      Your best bet, I’m guessing, would be to unpair the sensors you don’t want recorded. Fortunately with the app it’s super easy to pair and unpair sensors.

    • remtard

      From TFM:
      link to support.wahoofitness.com

      “In the event that multiple same-information sensors are being employed (e.g. two speed sensors), the ELEMNT uses a quality of data hierarchy to determine which sensors will be used to gather data during your workout. In this scenario, if one sensor should fail, the ELEMNT will automatically switch to the next data source and continue data gathering. Manual selection of a duplicated data source is not available.”

    • Merlin

      Thanks Rob, ok- forget that I mentioned the HRM. Yes, obviously it would track the other person’s heart beat if the monitor was within range. I get that. Once again, probably a far-fetched scenario. So, let’s just go back with 2 speed sensors (and 2 cadence sensors) that are within range – what does it do? I agree, the fix for this is to unpair the one set of sensors BUT………..what if you don’t???? That’s what I want to know. What kind of data will be recorded? Will it track the info from the first sensor it detects? Will it record an average of the 2 sensors? Will it not use the sensors at all and just use GPS? (in the case of the speed sensors) This is what I was wondering about and hoping to get an answer on.

    • Merlin

      Thank you for the answer TFM! That’s what I was looking for! So it picks up the data from the strongest sensor, and if that sensor dies, it picks it up from the other one immediately, and if that one dies, I assume it would use GPS for speed. And I guess if you lose GPS signal, you’re SOL! Thanks for the info!

  165. I would really like to see, a video how GPX tracback works, for mountainbiking….
    (Also when you take wrong turn etc, how do you get back on track, direction etc.
    Cause I ‘m not impressed with most devices I’v seen so far….

  166. Rob

    One more question: during winter I use my Garmin 500 on the trainer. I have interval workouts setup that it takes me through (5 min at a specific cadence/speed, then 3 min at a specific cadence/speed etc). I don’t see that kind of functionality listed anywhere- will the ELEMNT support custom workouts? If it doesn’t, it looks like I can setup a workout in Cyclemeter- as long as the ELEMNT will work as an ANT+ bridge and will send my ANT+ speed/cadence data to the phone I can use Cyclemeter for my trainer sessions. Not all of us can afford a KICKR.

    Otherwise I think it’s time to sell my Garmin. Thanks for the replies here.

    • Dan Kothlow

      I currently use Runmeter (Cyclemeter’s twin) and have it set up to do distance remaining for an interval, displayed on my RFLKT+. I asked the Wahoo folks if that could be done shortly after the ELEMNT was announced. I would love it if the ELEMNT would have that feature.
      They said “The ELEMNT will use Live Segments, which will give you a distance remaining alert. This feature is not scheduled to go live on the ELEMNT until 1/2016.” They also said a premium subscription for Strava would be required.

      I’m asked to see some additional information of the items available in the app, and Wahoo Murray said he’d put together some screenshots, but have not seen that yet.

    • The reason they (along with others) couldn’t do Strava Live Segments pre Jan 1st, 2016, is because Garmin has an exclusive with Strava prior to that. Further, Premium is required for such feature enablement, per Strava ‘rules’.

      (I actually don’t have a problem with Strava drawing that line in the sand, I think it’s good that any business finds a way to make their operational long-term financially sustainable, since it certainly wasn’t trending that way before.)

    • Dan Kothlow

      Thanks for the insight, Ray.
      However, that still doesn’t answer the question posted by Rob –
      Can you use the app to setup custom workouts / intervals?
      It sounds like he and I are looking to simply have it show a “distance remaining”, or “time remaining” for intervals.

    • I’ll defer to Murray for that one for now.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Pre-planned workouts are scheduled for Q1 2016.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry Dan, Its just been insane here. Most of the screenshots are covered in Ray’s post or on our blog.

    • Dan Kothlow

      Thank you, Murray.

    • Rob

      Thanks. Is it safe to assume ANT+ bridging? (i.e. My frame mounted ANT+ speed/cadence info gets sent to my phone app in real time). Or is that data sent at the end of the ride?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Not really ANT+ bridging. ELEMNT is in charge of the entire workout, its a 100% standalone bike computer that syncs the workout to the phone in real time. Think of the phone app as just a viewer.

    • Rob

      Thanks. However it works- sounds like I can get it to do what I need it to do.

    • So if the device updates to phone in real time, will that kill phone battery?
      Or if your phone dies whilst doing a ride, does that affect data recording?
      And will device work if you forget your phone?

    • Wahoo Murray

      It will have very little impact on your battery, I don’t have exact number for you but it’s in the order of 1-3% per hour.

      You only need the phone connection for Live tracking and configuring some settings, otherwise the ELEMNT will operate 100% independently of the phone being connected.

    • Cheers for the remarkably prompt response Murray.
      Like many on here I’ve been looking for a decent alternative to garmin’s flakey offerenings.
      May recommend this to girlfriend as she’s in market for a computer that can tell her where to go and I’ve been loathe to recommend a Garmin to her. The follow friend thing would be awesome as she could see where I am if I’m ahead or behind her though not sure if you’ve made an app for that yet if someone doesn’t have an Elemnt too. I want an Elemnt too, but already have a GPS device and a very long list of other things to buy before I can justify a replacement for the Garmin.

    • Though a return home ability if she navigates off route or cuts ride short may be essential as she has zero sense of direction. Will that be possible? It didn’t seem like it from other posts I read.

    • Wahoo Murray

      We are looking at options for people without ELEMNTs, we need to balance the battery usage (from GPS) on the phone.

      We currently have no on-demand navigation features, but “Get me home” is on our list and its something we see as a popular feature request.

    • how does that 1-3% per hour compare to the battery usage on the RFLKT? I mean, would you say the RFLKT was in the range of 10% per hour?

    • Wahoo Murray

      RFLKT is a lot different, in that case the phone is recording the workout and thus using the GPS that consumes most of the power. 10-15% depending on you phone sounds about right.

      ELEMNT only needs the phone to use low power Bluetooth so is significantly less. I would say most people wouldn’t even notice the difference compared with normal phone use.

    • Thanks. I know it’s totally different, but it’s also something that is a great comparison between the two. I had assumed it was perhaps an order of magnitude difference.

    • A ‘get me home option’ should be a high priority for those who use GPS devices for navigation. Firstly because if you need it, you really do need it. Secondly, it seems that reliance on GPS makes you even less capable of route finding, map reading etc. I have a really good memory for locations and can guess my way back or work out new routes quite easily, but most people I know are either not very good at that or completely useless at doing it themselves.

      A possible simple [like anything ever is in reality] way would be to leverage the phone to find a route via whatever mapping app that can plot a route, which could then be uploaded to phone. Would it be possible to access say Google or Apple Maps to do this?

      On a similar level, one of the features that Mio introduced and is one that is ideal for those who are not good with maps or if you are in a new area is the smart route creation facility. Which is a major selling point of that device over the Elemnt.
      Again this could be done via the phone app.

    • Robin

      Not only the Mio, also some of the Garmins, and my good old Bryton Rider 60. And when riding in unknown territory you really need it, no uses for “a good memory for locations”.

      They can plot a route without the need for the phone (whose battery is quickly emptied by navigating), find home, etc. So not just riding a preplanned and uploaded route, but entering a new address while riding if needed (and I have needed this).
      That’s why I decided for the Garmin 1000 for now, I will seriously consider the Elemnt when it can do the same thing or better!

    • I know other companies now use the feature and why I said *introduced* by Mio.
      I also said handy for for those who are not good with maps OR if you in a location new to you.
      I should point out that if like me you have a good memory for locations, that this applies to new ones too. I can always retrace any new route without problem and can happily simply ride out and take roads/trails at random without worrying about getting lost.
      The Surprise Me feature is handy even so because it can do a circular route of a predetermined length, whereas it you head out randomnly in a new area and want to do a circular route of a certain length/time, the device can suggest some for you.

  167. Rob

    One question for DC Rainmaker- mind sharing the ‘message’ needed to make the Garmin mount accept the ELEMNT? I have a couple of nice aluminum mounts I’d like to keep using.

  168. Wahoo Murray

    Hi,

    I just thought I would give everyone here a bit of inside information on the release of ELEMNT. Production has/is going well and we are currently working through the last couple items before we are happy to update the units and start shipping. Our iOS app was just approved by Apple, however we will need to submit an update before shipping starts.

    We are working towards a release as soon as possible, I can’t give you any dates yet as we really just don’t know yet.

    Thanks

    • Peter B

      Good to hear. Right now the ELMNT is on top of my “New bicycle computer for next season”-list. Just get it released before the 2016 road season starts (Which we all know starts with Omloop Het Nieuwsblad on the 27th of February) and you’ve got my business.

  169. Kevin D.

    Hi Murray,
    Up at the top of the thread you say

    We don’t have support for user maps, we do store and display ALL roads/tracks/paths from OpenStreetMap data, its not a subset of the data like a lot of places. OSM is improving all the time and we will ship regular updates, if the demand is there we would definitely be open to supporting other map sources.

    Can you look at supporting Open Cycle Map? I believe it is the same data source as Open Cycle Map but with the UK National Cycle Network highlighted in orange.

    My wife has an Edge Touring which is both challenging and frustrating to use though she perseveres as we have managed to load OCM onto it. We would welcome an alternative and the ELEMNT looks promising.

  170. nol p

    Will the unit be able to display Pedal Smoothness and/or Torque Effectiveness?

  171. solarhobo

    Wahoo Murray, great looking product with lots of promise. As has been said before, thank you for putting in all this effort to be responsive to your existing customer base and potential new customers.

    Pricing feedback:
    Would you please look into re-examining Australian pricing for your products so they are closer to equivalent US pricing? I have paid for all your KICKR, TickerX and RPM product at full retail prices yet don’t understand why supplying me a product like the ELEMNT costs $29 (that’s $40 Australian dollars today) more. For information, a leading competitor product in a bundle (speed, cadence, HR) would cost me AUD$489 (that’s net of postage) versus your price point of $499 for the head unit alone.

    Thank you.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Happy to help. Did you know majority of the ELEMNT software development team is actually based in Australia/NZ. Cool stuff :-)

      Pricing, its a difficult area and there is lots of things at play.
      – Import Duties (most counties have these, so we will exclude this as a fact of life)
      – Unstable exchange rates. Australia has had a diving exchange rate the last 12 months.
      – Additional warehousing and distribution costs
      – Sales Tax. This is the big one that everyone outside the USA forgets. All US prices include NO tax (added at checkout), but just about every other country in the world include the sales tax in the listed price.

      $329 USD = $457 AUD (Today)
      + 10% GST = $502

      So today, the ELEMNT is actually cheaper in Australia than in the USA. We always do our best to keep the impact as low as possible. Hope that information helps.

    • Matt

      Any update on shipping or production?

  172. George Nathanael

    I just received an email from Wahoo saying they will not include shipping to my country (Cyprus) which is in EU. Too bad….

  173. Brett

    Hey Wahoo Murray – I have been using a Polar CS500 for 3 years with HR strap and Speed Sensors. The CS500 came with two speed sensors for different bikes and has the ability to remember 3 different bikes which is a great feature.

    Will the new Elemnt computer be compatible with the Polar WIND speed sensors? If No does the Elemnt have the ability to have multiple bike settings in the setup menu eg: Bike 1, Bike 2 and Bike 3 ?
    Unfortunately Polar uses proprietary BT I think (WIND) as I have not found any other HR straps that will work with the Polar CS500 unit.
    This is a key feature for those of us who may ride a 29er and 27.5 or other bike wheel size. I assume I will need to buy multiple speed sensors (one for each bike) or is there any alternative to doing so?
    I bought the Tickr HR monitor and have had great success paired with Strava and MapMyRide. The missing link will hopefully be your new Elemnt unit.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Correct, the CS500 uses WIND and isn’t compatible with any other units.

      The reason I ask why do you need bike profiles is because different people have different ideas why they need it.

      – Just pair all sensors with the ELEMNT, no need to assign them into any groups, ELEMNT will connect to any saved seniors

      – Wheel size is associated directly with a sensor so different bikes are no problem.

      – We have planned for Q1 the ability to setup display profiles, this will allow you to configure different display setup for different reasons. Bike 1, MTB, Road, Race, Intervals etc.

  174. Chuck

    Several reviews of this product claim “turn by turn” navigation yet there are no screen shots. I called Wahoo and the employee stated he didn’t believe they offered “turn by turn” and would check into it for me. Didn’t receive any communication back from him. Did you actually see this feature?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Chuck,

      We won’t be launching with turn by turn, the ELEMNT currently has On-Route / Off-Route detection and “distance to go”. We will be enabling Turn by Turn in Q1 for RideWithGPS routes but unsure about when we can support turn by turn from Strava as they don’t currently provide the cue sheets.

    • Matt

      Would that require a RWGPS subscription as well like the rflkt? This would be getting expensive.

    • raine

      Hey there. So I’m a pretty casual rider and one of the reasons I’m interested in ELEMNT (aside from not being a huge fan of garmin) is that I want a device to help me ride routes that I’ve created on Strava’s route builder. How do you see ELEMNT being helpful in that regard? Thank you.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Matt, no you won’t need a premium account.

      Raine, the ELEMNT will download all routes you make on Strava and let you get on-route / off-route notifications using the LEDs. You will also be able to see the route drawn on the map.

    • Matt

      Thanks for the response. I am eagerly awaiting the shipment of my order!

    • Dan Kothlow

      Is the “distance to go” for the overall route, or can you set up intervals along that route, like planned rest stops (SAG), and have distance to go to SAG1, SAG2, etc.

    • Mike Robinson

      Just to ask a related question about routes created with RwGPS – will the ELEMNT be able to show the distance to the next control point and display what the control point is?

      Will it support custom control points added manually to the RwGPS cue sheet as well as the auto generated control points?

      Also, if a POI has been added to the RwGPS route, will the ELEMNT display this as well?

  175. George

    I’m not sure if some of these questions have been answered.

    I have been using Garmin for many years, for running and for cycling. The past few years, I have been less and less enamoured of them. In fact, my EDGE 1000 is currently in service and will be replaced by a refurbished unit.

    I’ve been using a Tickr HRM and very happy with it. We all know the issues with the Garmin HRM Straps.

    I just purchased the BlueSC Speed and Cadence Sensor, and that has not worked well. I can’t get the Wahoo App to find the sensors. Worked once and then hasn’t worked since. I see lights flashing when I turn the pedals (fixed gear track bike) but it’s not displaying the data on the Wahoo App. I removed my Garmin Sensor to mount the SC Sensor, so not happy about that.

    How easy is it to go from bike to bike with the Elemnt?
    Will it work with TrainerRoad?
    I use a GoPro to film my rides, then use the .Garmin .FIT file to overlay the video which I edit in VIRB Edit (Yes, I have to use the Garmin Camera Software to edit GoPro videos because GoPro Studio can’t do it, and Dashware is Windows only)
    Will ELEMNT generate the kind of file I can use with the GoPro? I saw something in the article about GoPro integration.

    Thanks

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi George,

      Sorry that you are having issues with the BlueSC, does it not detect with your Garmin as well? Have you tried switching the battery out? Give our support a call or email and they will get it sorted ASAP.

      ELEMNT comes with a collection of mounts and can be paired to multiple sensors so switching bikes is easy.

      TrainerRoad: Their isn’t any direct integration with TrainerRoad but you can use it at the same time with no problems.

      GoPro: You will be able todo the same thing with FIT files from the ELEMNT and we do have plans for some direction integration (Camera control/status) with GoPro in the future.

  176. mspeas

    I appreciate that Wahoo monitors this site. It is getting quite close to January now so is there any update on probable shipping date??

  177. Helmut

    Some questions:

    1. Can I export/import my saved trainings to/from a Storage Provider App (Readdle Documents) on iOS or directly from/to a WebDAV server (every NAS supports WebDAV)?
    Any Cloud is a No-Go!! I plan my trainings with Graphhopper on my Mac. Graphhopper doesn’t need any registration to plan routes and export them as a GPX file.
    link to graphhopper.com

    Also I use Garmin Training Center even for now to view my trainings, because I can easily backup my files to a USB drive and my NAS. My trainings belongs to me :-)

    2. What export file format do I get? Fit? TCX? GPX? What file formats can be imported?

    3. Can I use Elemnt completely without my iPhone? Saving my training sessions, GPS, Maps, Barometer…? Most of the time I drive w/o my iPhone.

    4. Can I use map feature as a simple map? Is my position placed in the middle of screen to have an overview of the streets, even backward? Do I recognize the type of the street? Riding my road bike offroad is a No-Go, even some light Gravel streets are a No-Go.
    Routing is ok for longer trips, but for training sessions a simple Map feature is enough. Sometimes I look for dry streets (not through a forest) or turn into a street I never ride before because it looks nice. Then I only want to know which options do I have to come back to a well known street :-)

    Thanks! :-)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Helmut

      1. We don’t export directly to WebDAV but you can open any of our support files using the “Open In”, allowing you to copy the data anywhere you want.

      1.b. You can import routes form anywhere but they do go via our cloud. We do have plans of sending routes over BT but it isn’t quite ready yet.

      2. TCX, GPX, FIT, CSV, RAW and PWX

      3. Yes, you can do all those things. Routes are automatically saved for offline use, Maps are stored on the device and all sensors are controlled by the ELEMNT. The iPhone provides you with connected features like live tracking and find my friends. Its also heavily used for configuration and review.

      4. Yes you can see the map all the time, either pointing north or the direction of travel. We do render roads, trails and bike paths differently much like you see on OpenCycleMaps. (but in B+W)

      Hope that helps.

    • Helmut

      Hi Murray,

      thanks!

      Hope there are some videos soon available about the map quality (different street types for/not for a road bike) and some informations about handling and how to import/export (and viewing) training sessions in batch mode. I don’t save every training session when at home.

      Now I connect my Edge 1000 to my Mac and Garmin Training Center only imports the new training sessions.

      Best regards!

      Helmut

  178. Looks like a great product. Nice to see some competition for Garmin.

    But what would be even better is if Wahoo fixed the issues around the RFLKT+. Initial connections from Android take forever (if they happen at all) and ANT+ support for Android would also be appreciated.

    Not sure the market really needs another expensive GPS bike computer when our Smartphones do the trick quite well. All that was really needed was a display unit that could go on the handlebars. That, was the RFLKT. So how about Wahoo ? How about putting some resources into fixing the issues ?

    • I haven’t had connection troubles with the Android/RFLKT world, and I’ve used it quite a bit. Certainly the more modern RFLKT firmware reduces battery consumption, which is nice. The biggest problem I’ve had is (a) no notification that my phone battery is about to die (via audio, the last thing I hear is the sensors disconnecting) and (b) the app crashing.

      I use a Garmin as a backup source, and have written code that merges various files together so I can recover GPS and HRM/cadence type data.

    • Are you on Android ?

      With the firmware 1.8.28, either it connects right away or it just hangs and I have to try again.

      There is also a lag of 2-3 seconds when hitting the lap button..

      The newest firmware is better then the old (minus the connection issue). The older firmware I’d get drops several times a ride.

      My fear is that with the Elemnt, Wahoo will put their resources to the new device and leave The RFLKT+ out.. especially in regards to ANT+ support for Android.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi

      We had some issues with the latest firmware and some Android devices and had to roll back the firmware update for Android users. We are working on another release.

      Unfortunately the lag with the lap is due to latency in the BT connection on some devices and is one of the one of reasons we cannot support the ANT+ bridge on Android. We don’t have any plans to add support for the ANT+ bridge on Android due to compatibility issues not resources, sorry about that.

      ELEMNT and RFLKT are targeted for 2 very different markets and we work hard to support all our products.

      If you have any other specific problems I suggest you contact our support as they are much better at helping with customer support than me (i’m just a engineer)

      Happy Holidays :)

    • raine

      The fact that an engineer in replying to questions on a random blog (albeit one that seems quite popular) is truly exceptional and the reason I’d prefer to give my money to wahoo instead of garmin.

  179. Brett

    Wahoo Murray – what are your primary target markets for each? I can’t decide what the beat unit for my needs is….Reflekt or Elemnt. I don’t really need the readily viewable GPS info. I typically use Strava on my iPhone 6 with Wahoo Tickr for MTB on my local trails that I know well. Key needs are large screen with Speed, HR, time or Lap Time / Lap # and cadence. I have any different MTBs so is there any limit to number of speed sensors either Reflekt or Elemnt can remember? What does avg Wahoo user do? Buy one speed sensor per bike or move / reattach to each bike when needed? I a beginning to think your Reflekt unit + speed sensor(s) and Tickr is the best data solution for my needs.
    Thanks,
    Brett in Michigan with cabin fever.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Brett,

      Well RFLKT and ELEMNT are 2 very different units. There is a long list of different features. Basically, ELEMNT is a standalone bike computer with GPS, Maps and a high visibility screen thats enhanced by a phone connection. RFLKT is simply a extended screen for your iPhone that always needs the phone connection to function. Thats a fairly simplistic view and feel free to call our support staff as they can discuss whats right for you in better detail than me.

  180. Hi Murray,

    Not sure you can answer this but I’ll give it a go anyhow. MEC in Canada (http://www.mec.ca) carries the RFLKT and another Wahoo item.. Any idea if they will be carrying the Elemnt?

    The shipping to Canada is 35 USD and I know UPS will ding me with brokerage fees making it a very expensive GPS head unit..

    Thanks.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yeah not really something I know anything about, but if they are already stocking RFLKT I would guess they would stock ELEMNT. The best thing here is to contact MEC directly and ask them to stock it.

  181. Jay Batson

    I hope Wahoo Murray is still watching this thread.

    I manually upload all my ride performance data to Golden Cheetah by plugging my Garmin into my laptop, and importing the .tcx file from the mounted filesystem.

    Will I be able to directly access the original .tcx file to do the same with the Elemnt, or will I only be able to re-download the file from some service (e.g. strava), which might “dumb-down” the file, or …?

    I received a Garmin 810 for Christmas, and am considering returning it, and buying an Elemnt. But this is a must-have feature.

    Hope Murray RSVP’s!
    -jb

    • Wahoo Murray

      Always watching Jay.

      You will be able to grab the FIT files over USB an import them into Golden Cheetah. FIT is a much better format and contains more data.

    • David

      But still have support for autoupload to Dropbox, right? That’s what I do and then when I get home, I suck my Dropbox folder into GoldenCheetah.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Today, we don’t have auto-upload to Dropbox available. It’s currently disabled because we don’t have support on the ELEMNT to upload directly, only via the iOS app.

    • Jay Batson

      Thanks, Murray. And I think I *was* referring to .fit files (not .tcx). I just remembered incorrectly when I was posting my comment.

      This tips it for me; I think I’ll return the Garmin 810 and get an Elemnt. Placing order today!

      But really, the way I made my decision is this: Wahoo (you) seems committed to a more aggressive software plan than Garmin. Garmin has long made great hardware, but sub-par software. Part of this is because it must make software that works across dozens of devices. I believe this both slows down, and eliminates feature development. OTOH, Wahoo is making 1-2 bike computer devices, which makes it much easier to maintain a continuous feature deployment pace. I also think Wahoo’s (your) underlying assumption of leveraging the phone aggressively is smart.

      Murray, your participation here is another great reason to jump on the Wahoo computer bandwagon. Garmin has never shown any interest in being interactive…. (BTW – instead of making DCR’s blog be your forum, why not get Wahoo to set up a Wahoo community site? Drupal Commons is a modern – and free – community platform: link to drupal.org )

      There remain two features the 810 has that I’m going to lament not having on the Elemnt: Strava segment stuff (showing upcoming segment start, and “interesting” times associated with it), and “Take me home” navigation. I don’t know of there are device limitations that will keep these from being possible in the future.

      Either way, an Elemnt purchase is a bet that software will emerge faster on it than on Garmin (about whose software I regularly complain…).

      Thanks for the reply.

  182. George Nathanael

    Any update on SmO2?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry George, I missed your comments. We have one of our developers working on Sm02 at the moment, we should have it ready soon.

  183. Harry

    Will the ELEMNT be able to give turn-by-turn directions as well as Strava Live Segment updates simultaneously? It’s my understanding this is something Garmin currently cannot do.

  184. Henk-Jan

    I wanted to preorder one… Not possible any more, on the wahoo site? Reason: Would need it by the 14th of februari….

    Lets wait and see…

    • Wahoo Murray

      We took down the pre-order and offered refunds once we knew we would miss the initial target date. We are getting VERY close and should have enough stock to meet demand once we start shipping. I will make sure everyone knows the minute I know.

    • Ewo

      Can Wahoo Elemnt run with ipodtouch 5? Wahoo cadence and speed sensor works fine with my ipodtouch 5. I hope that elemnt can work with ipodtouch 5.

    • Ewo

      As an owner of a sport blue-tooth headsets, I like the audio announcement feature of the wahoo app. I am curious about if the new elemnt unit supports audio announcement of turn by turn navigation to headsets, so that I don’t have to look at the screen of the unit.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Ewo, yes it will work find with any iOS device made in the last 4 years, they all have Bluetooth 4.0.

      We have no plans to add support for BT audio at this stage.

  185. Kwen

    Just got mine pre-ordered, very happy to say goodbye to my Garmin. Just one question at the moment: will there be any implementation of weather related information? Especially wind direction would be great to have.

    • Ewo

      As an owner of a sport blue-tooth headsets, I like the audio announcement feature of the wahoo app. I am curious about if the new elemnt unit supports audio announcement of turn by turn navigation to headsets, so that I don’t have to look at the screen of the unit.

  186. John B.

    Many thanks to @Wahoo Murray for his many detailed replies in this comments section. Like many here, I have suffered mental harmin’ from my Garmin (a first world problem, I know) and eagerly await what sounds to be an extremely well thought out device.

    I have one quick question from a long distance cyclist’s perspective – will the ELEMNT run when connected to an external power supply (e.g. a USB phone charger)? I saw that someone else asked the same question, but I don’t think it was ever answered.

    • Wahoo Murray

      My pleasure John.

      Yes, you can charge and use the ELEMNT while using it. The USB in on the bottom so you just need to use a mount/setup that gives you enough clearance, some other guys have been using 90deg USB connectors as well.

    • John B.

      Much obliged for another quick reply!

  187. Peter

    I just noticed on the Wahoo website that the Elemnt will be shipping in early March (on the pre-order page). I’m one of many who have been holding out for this while my current Garmin 510 is dying a slow death (freezing, turning off mid ride etc). I wonder if the early March date will be met. I was willing to hold out until January but another 2 months may be stretching it. I can probably wait but will it definitely ship in March?

    • Thomas

      Where do you see that, link or screenshot? The EU sites still say “Coming soon” and Murray “VERY soon” above, a week ago.

    • Dan Kothlow

      This is what I see if you attempt to buy.
      To me, it sounds as if the first round of pre-orders are still slated to ship this month.
      If you had not already pre-ordered, it would be a March shipment.
      But, I could be wrong.

    • ThomasR

      Ok, thanks. I get redirected to eu.wahoofitness.com, where there’s no option for preorder at all. I assume you’re located in the US then. Not in a hurry though, I’m ok with my 510 at the moment, but will switch later this year.

    • mspeas

      Wahoo confirmed to me that March delivery is for new orders, not existing orders.

    • Peter

      OK thanks, I have ordered through the LBS. Hopefully still on track for later this month then.

    • Dave

      I’m in NZ and all I can see in the Australia store page is “coming soon”. Disappointing given that we are at the start of summer and could get a lot of use out of the unit in the next three to four months.

  188. John D.

    Any word on ELEMNT mounting options for the Madone 9, given its unique bar/stem setup? I’ve checked with K-Edge and a few others in November/December, but no one had anything yet. I was wondering if anyone might know of something.

  189. Ventura

    Hi, any update on release date? Ta

    • Wahoo Murray

      None yet. I will be sure to post here the second I know.

    • Jeppe Buk

      Hi Murray

      Appreciate the replies to all the technical questions, but please relay back to the sales team that the delays in any updated information on when the ELEMNT will ship is frustrating a lot of existing customers waiting to add to their Wahoo collection (or maybe that is just me?).

      Has anyone at all received the unit? When can we expect to be able to order and get one in Europe?

      Jeppe

    • Wahoo Murray

      Jeppe, Our entire team is doing our best to keep people updated, its difficult as the delays we are having do not have any finite time to be resolved. We don’t like to keep giving new dates until we are 100% sure they units are on the way to the warehouse.

      Production is in full swing and once the first units start shipping in the USA we will be able to give dates for other markets.

      I promise as soon as we have solid dates our sales/marketing team will publish them, for now the best I can do is keep answering any technical questions people have.

      Thanks

    • Jeppe Buk

      Thanks, Murray, I do to some degree understand, but still would expect to have an indication of timeline. I guess my impatience is also a recognition to your team, that you have put together a unit that people are very interested in getting their hands on, which is nice :)

  190. jjarz

    Hi Murray – thanks for all the great feedback and can’t wait for the release. Scrolling back i cannot locate the comment but i thought there was some discussion on pedal power meters & left/right differential?

    I am also in the market for PowerTap P1’s – will the Elemnt work with that feature? If not is it a A,B, or C priority?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yes, ELEMNT has full support for the P1 pedals.

    • Dang it Murray… your post just cost me $1100, I’m afraid.

      Can’t wait for my ELEMNT to arrive :)

    • Kirk Foster

      Hi Murray,

      Will the ELEMNT support metrics like FTP Estimation, Recovery Time Estimation and VO2 estimates?

      Thanks,
      Kirk.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Kirk,

      These values are not support yet but are on the wanted list.

    • ray

      just got my element today but its only picking up one of the 2 power tap p1 power. my garmin 520 is picking up both so its’ not a pedal problem. do you have a solution for this?

    • The Edge 520 should only show a single PowerTap P1 system, not both pedals as seperate ANT power meters. Are you sure you see two?

    • ray

      sorry let me clarify. the 520 is picking up both pedals as a single ant+ entry at 100w. when the element is picking up only a single side at 50w.

    • Wahoo Murray

      There is a known problem with BT Left/Right power meters, please pair ELEMNT with the ANT+ data, it will show you the ANT+ ID when trying to pair. You might need to select “More” when on the sensor pairing page. The name of the sensor will be generic “Power Meter” rather than the Polar name.

    • ray

      thanks! exactly like you said, it was picking up a single side bluetooth. got it working by switching to the ant+ id.

    • Steve Haigh

      Thanks for the tip! Is the issue only with the Elemnt or is it a more general BT problem?

  191. Jim in Colorado

    Looks very interesting! UI appears to be very intuitive, being able to focus in on one or a few metrics during one part of the ride and then “zoom out” to include more during other parts of the ride is very cool. Phone-based set-up is likely much easier than my current Garmin 910XT.

    How does the find-my-friend feature work? Do the friends have to have ELEMNT head units? Or is it part of a phone app?

    My primary focus is power. Can metrics like 3 second and 30 second average power be displayed? Can NP be displayed? NP for an interval? I very much like the way the SRM PC7 handles intervals – push the button to start an interval, and the average/max power/HR/speed displayed is for the interval. When the interval is over, push the button, and it goes back to showing data for the whole ride. My Garmin 910XT does not work that way – they are all separate fields on separate screens which is difficult, but not impossible, to use for my training purposes. How does the ELEMENT deal with intervals?

    I use WKO on my laptop. Does the ELEMNT download a file to my laptop that can be opened by WKO? Synching to Strava is nice, I don’t care about synching to all those other sites, but my primary requirement is loading into WKO for interval analysis, CTL and ATL tracking, etc.

    Thanks!

    • Jim in Colorado

      Apologies, my last question was answered in a post above by Murray — it will download FIT files to my laptop which is what my Garmin does. Thanks!

    • Wahoo Murray

      Hi Jim,

      “Find my Friends” – Right now its only for people using the ELEMNT but we have plans to roll it out as iOS and Android apps as well. So for now, your friends will just need to buy a ELEMNT :)

      Power Fields – We have a wide range of power fields including those listed. We should have a full list posted sometime in the next week.

      Intervals – We don’t have anything like that, it is a interesting idea but ELEMNT using the idea of “Laps” rather than intervals. I’ve made a note and it might be something we consider when we start working on structured workouts.

      Export – Correct, You can grab the FIT files via USB.

      Enjoy!

    • Ewo Lam

      Hi. Wahoo Murray. May I add bluetooth audio of turn-by-turn navigation to the wanted list. That would make easier to navigate at night.

    • Peter

      Will you be able to upload workouts to the Elemnt? I have recently started using this with my 510 (when it works properly) uploading my workouts for the week from Today’s Plan and find this useful. The lights indicating intensity on the Elemnt could work really well with this showing where my power is in relation to the the required intensity for the effort in each step of the workout. I currently get a message when I drift out of the desired zone (under or over).

    • Jim in Colorado

      Wahoo Murray – Thanks for the rapid and helpful response.

      The SRM PowerControl does exactly what I want/expect when training. On the main screen, it shows power/HR/cadence/speed/time. Push one button and it shows average values for those fields, push again and it shows max values. The very, very cool thing is that when I start an interval, pushing the same button shows average values for the interval and pushing it again shows the max values for the interval. I guess they are dynamically set based on what mode the PC is in.

      When I’m doing 1 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute, 20 minute intervals, it is very cool to see current/average/max values for the interval without those having to be separate “Lap” fields that aren’t useful when not doing an interval and require a crowded screen when doing an interval. The Garmin 910XT implementation of “Laps” is interesting for the casual rider, but very cumbersome for actually training with power.

      If you haven’t seen how the SRM PC handles intervals, I’d highly encourage you to take a look. It is also possible to scroll through up to 7 or 8 completed intervals during the ride (I’ve forgotten, I just scroll to see how my average power compares to see if I’m getting over-cooked and it’s time to quit).

      The SRM PC screens/functionality do a great job of supporting power-based training. The Garmin “Lap” function does not. It would be well worth reviewing the SRM PC functionality for the ELMENT if your goal is to support training with power. That is my goal in buying a new head unit for my new Powertap P1 pedals. I’m temporarily using the Garmin 910XT, but will be replacing it.

    • Jim in Colorado

      Upon re-reading DC’s review, it appears the “Profile” function would be helpful for the interval training I posted about. Not quite the same — requires picking menus which is less intuitive than just having the head unit change on the fly — but looks like it would work.

      The use of the word “profiles” caused another question — what is required to swap from one bike to another? Will the ELEMNT keep track of multiple bikes so the rider doesn’t have to pair the speed/power sensors when swapping bikes? Or will switching from my road bike to my CX or TT bike required pairing to the different bike’s power and speed units? Not a huge hassle, but it would be cool to be able to just choose “Bike 1” or “Bike 2” or “Bike 3” like Garmin and SRM PC8 (not the PC7 which I own, so I currently have to re-pair).

    • Dan Kothlow

      Which app would have the “find my friends” feature in the future?
      The reason I ask is because to even start using the Elemnt app, you have to pair it with an Elemnt. I was excited to see the app on the Apple App Store, but disappointed I could not even explore the features of the app without the Elemnt.

  192. mufflon

    Hi,
    this device looks awesome! Thinking about buying it. Is there an integration for komoot routes planned?
    Thanks!

    • Wahoo Murray

      I haven’t seen Komoot before but I just had a quick play and it looks like a great website. I can’t see any public API and I am not sure if we would add direct support but it easy to import routes from Komoot from the iOS/Android app to ELEMNT or by importing the GPX file via USB.

  193. Paul

    Ive pretty much given up on this product in the UK. I held off last September from buying a Garmin when i saw this but release dates were November…then December..then January..now its March. Im not actually convinced this product will get to full production this year and ive given up waiting.

    Theres no reviews of it anywhere apart from here, no videos on YouTube from users, it doesnt fill me with confidence so its a Garmin for me im afraid, i cant lose another 6 months waiting for this.

    • Declan Mc Glone

      I pre-ordered one in the UK on 19th December expecting January deliver.

      But shortly afterwards the website changed to show a March delivery. I emailed Wahoo Support who told me that was only for new orders at that point and I should receive mine in January. So thats what I’m expecting. Doesn’t sound like you’ve ordered one? I guess if you are waiting for production to ramp up enough so that retailers have stock, it might still be a few months.

      Dex.

    • Dave

      Very keen on Elemnt, but on the Aus/NZ site there’s no mention of when the device will be available or an option to pre-order. What is on my mind however is that my Strava Premium is up for renewal next month and they’re offering a very attractive price on a Garmin 520 if you renew and buy the unit together. I’d really like to see Wahoo get this sorted out as I want their unit to go with my Kickr over NZ autumn/winter.

    • David (frostbyteva)

      I’m in the same boat. After cursing out my RFLKT+ for the last time this weekend, I’m going to order a Garmin 520 this week. First, my Ticker X was supposed to have swim support but it doesn’t even work under water for HR and they never released swim metrics. Then the RFLKT+ started crashing in the middle of long rides with the May update. They seem to have got that squared away by November but it crashed this weekend after 3 hours. Plus, the battery randomly dies… Support has helped me to get it re-paired with the phone when it will not boot up right, but this is ridiculous. Murry, feel free to reach out to me at my username @gmail.com if you would like to discuss further. I was really looking forward to the better mapping (than Garmin 520’s measly 24MB) and email notifications from work when I’m on-call, but I’ve had too many problems to be able to A) wait any longer or B) trust that they will keep the software stack functional through the life of the product.

  194. raine

    How cold temperatures can one expect ELEMNT to survive for extended periods?

    Would a ride in -10°C quickly kill the battery?

    • Wahoo Murray

      ELEMNT is tested for operation for -20C to +60C. I’m just waiting for some specific figures, but typically at -20C you are looking at 50-70% of the original battery life.

  195. Simon

    Shipping date now estimated at early march ? Will there be anybother features added for this date e.g Strava live segments ?

  196. Robin

    Any news about European /Dutch delivery?
    I am considering a Garmin 1000, but wanting to try this one if it arrives soon!

    • rein

      I’m very curious as wel. In the same position to take te shot for the edge or go for the wahoo to be ready for the start of the european season.

    • Nicolas Christin

      Here’s their response to my question on their Facebook page: “It will likely be March/April for the euro site. Make sure you sign up for notifications to be the first to know when it’s in stock!”

    • Robin

      March / April….? By then the season has already started here!
      Feels like they are losing precious momemtum here. Too bad because I very much sympathize with their products. Can’t they send me a test-unit for bridging the gap? ;-)

  197. Paul

    Quick question: Being cursed with a windows phone are the screens configurable through the unit itself? Or does one have to creatively borrow a IOS/Android phone for setup?

  198. Does it support controlling music on the iPhone like the RFLKT?

  199. Jonathan Baker

    Two very specific questions that I need answered to decide if I buy this or the Garmin:(I will need to pre-order)
    1. When will structured workouts/on unit interval features/training calendar be available on this product
    2. In the US, if i have not yet ordered when will the product ship to me if I order today (assuming I hear that question #1 functionality is already available)

  200. Daniel

    I assume everyone just got the same email about another delay/uncertain delivery on the ELEMNT? 28 JAN 2016.

    I think I’m done waiting… Garmin 1000 is likely my target. :(

    So disappointed.

    • Robin

      Got no email, but nevertheless just decided for the Edge 1000!
      Partly not wanting to wait, partly not certain about the navigation capabilities.

    • Daniel

      Just cancelled my order, and purchased a Garmin. Something just ain’t right here. This might *become* the greatest cycling computer ever…. but if there are so many problems in production, I can only imagine what the first batch of deliveries/customers might face. :(

    • Jeffrey Miesemer

      Add me to the pissed off column. The vague updates leave a lot of doubt in my mind.

    • Declan Mc Glone

      Very disappointing indeed, but I’m hanging in there as I want the device.

      What’s most disappointing is the lack of indication of the new anticipated delivery date, beyond some vague reference to “old man winter”. The $20 voucher to spend with Wahoo really doesn’t float my boat much :-/

      Dex

    • Peter

      I’m disappointed with the delays from Wahoo and may end up having to purchase something else but at least Wahoo are holding off the release until they get it right (unlike some Garmin releases). I think I would prefer that they hold off until it is right rather than release it with known problems that only get fixed months down the track with firmware updates. Imagine the complaints if they had released on time but full of bugs.

    • Jeffrey Miesemer

      “The $20 voucher to spend with Wahoo really doesn’t float my boat much :-/”

      Exactly! I already own two KICKRs and a bucket full of Wahoo sensors… I’m not looking for anything else. I’m also not thrilled they charged my credit card back in October for the two units that I ordered. I think the right thing to do is charge the card when it ships. This is starting to feel like KickStarter.

    • raine

      I agree with this sentiment. It’s much better for this product’s future if they deliver a solid, bug-free piece of equipment than come out with something half-assed that gathers poor reviews and sets a bad first impression, even if those issues could theoretically fixed with firmware updates.

    • Got the email. I’m disappointed but not surprised0 these things happen when you announce a product before it’s ready to ship.

      I’m willing to wait for it. For those who aren’t, buy my garmin touring plus instead so I can get rid of my only piece of Garmin.

    • Dan Kothlow

      I will continue to wait. I’ve never owned a Garmin, and never plan to.
      For those that are also content to wait, and if you need something now, use the 20 buck coupon and get a RFLKT to use with your smart phone.
      I’ve done that for years, and am extremely happy with that.
      I plan on using both the RFLKT and the ELEMNT once it ships.

  201. Wahoo Murray

    Hi,

    As one of the lead developers on this project and a active participant in this forum I wanted to personally reach out about the latest delay. There isn’t anything in the world I would love more than to start shipping units out to customers. We had hoped to start shipping units this week but had to make the difficult call to delay until everything is 100%.

    I understand it might be frustrating that the updates might be a little vague, its really hard for us to give you facts and dates when we our self don’t know. I/We are working really hard to fix the remaining issue and once that is resolved, things should happen fast.

    So personally, I apologize, it’s really exciting to see so much interest in what we are making and I am sure those of you who can wait will be very happy with the end product.

    Sincerely,

    Wahoo Murray

    • Robin

      Hi Murray,

      We admire your work in creating a real Garmin competitor. I have seen how difficult it is (former Bryton user).
      Personally, I think you can do better by:
      – not giving a date which cannot be met: only communicate a date when you are really ready (including production & logistics). People can decide on that, and it makes you trustworthy.
      – not being secretive about why things are postponed. The world is full of examples where openness pays.

      Keep up the good work!

    • Wahoo Fitness

      Hi Robin,

      The hardware game is a hard business, while it would be great to wait until we have stock in the warehouse before announcements its just not possible with all the work that goes into marketing and distribution of hardware devices. We do our best to make best estimates but sometimes the stars just don’t align.

      Sorry that you think we are being secretive, thats not our intention, I though I have been extremely open here on this forum, i’m by fair the most active engineers from any company on Ray’s blog.

      Thanks for the feedback and I will definitely pass it along to the team and I will see if we can get some more information in our notices.

      Thanks for your support

  202. Steve

    Hi

    When the first delay was announced in November one of the things I found disappointing was only being told at the last minute, when I was looking forward to it arriving. For a while after the first delay we got progress reports but these petered out and once again we are only given an update more or less on the day when we were told they would ship. Murray – I appreciate your contributions to this forum but please could you (either here or via an email update) give some info on what the problem is, how difficult it is to solve and the best case / worst case timescales for solving it?

    The $20 voucher is not much of a gesture! Surely there are few enough pre-orders that you could look after us a bit better? At least with $50 I could get close to a tickr or a Reflkt.

    Thanks

    • David Ivory

      I agree a $20 voucher is useless for someone one like me who already has a KICKR, KICKR Mat, TICKR, RFLKT and Blue SC. I’m left wondering when it will eventually arrive as in the last email there was no mention of a revised date. It doesn’t help when Wahoo get you to pay in full when you order the ELEMNT rather than debit your account when they despatch it. Over promising and under delivering!

    • Wahoo Fitness

      Hi Steve,

      We have left the announcements until the last minute because we were very optimistic we would be able to ship this week. As for whats wrong, its related to sensor connectivity, something we want to ensure is rock solid. I really can’t give dates, we have all our resources working on it but for cases like this its like asking how long is a piece of string, we could have it resolved tomorrow or it might take longer… its the hardest thing about hardware development. We hope the wait won’t be much longer.

      Muz

  203. Jay Batson

    I’ve held my tongue, but decided I shouldn’t.

    I am NOT in the same camp as all the complainers about shipping delays. I’ve built hardware before. The startup I founded built some of the first Ethernet-attached phones on the market. (Google “pingtel xpressa”, and look at the images.) We used contract manufacturing to build our stuff.

    Building electronics products is NOT easy, as Murray has said. And as a vendor, you do NOT always know what you and cannot, predict. Examples:
    – Containers can be left behind on a dock in China for random reasons, and it may not be predictable when the next ship will leave that has room to take the container – so you simply don’t KNOW when they’ll leave China. Once they leave, it’s a 30-day trip dock-dock.
    – Palettes of your parts might end up sitting in USA customs for days (weeks!) for no explainable reason.
    – A full run of printed circuit boards may come off the line, and fail electronics tests. The manufacturer may not have parts to do a new run, and be unable to obtain them for an unpredictable amount of time. (Or, the parts themselves simply might be flawed, and you need to source a second vendor)
    – A shipment of displays may fail cold-chamber tests, even though the *spec* says they shouldn’t (forcing you to find a vendor who can scramble & build to spec fast)
    – etc., etc.

    NONE of these things would be predictable – either in happening in the first place, or in predicting how fast you can adapt / recover from the delay.

    And I would *NOT* want Wahoo giving us the blow-by-blow. I can tell you (from painful experience) that a) telling your customers makes you sound like your manufacturing is out-of-control (particularly if more than one kind of delay appears), **despite** the fact that b) though *unpredictable*, these are *commonly-experienced* delays.

    So, shut the f*** up, cut Wahoo a break, and let them do their job. They’ll tell us what they can when they can. They’ve proven to be a reliable, fantastic vendor. If you need a computer before they ship, then just go ask for a refund and buy a (crappy) Garmin. Otherwise, stop complaining.

    And IMO, even though I’m not sure I can use the $20, the proactive gesture by the company is even more evidence that they’re the vendor you want to hang your hat on. (Can you imagine Garmin doing this?? Never.)

    • Robin

      Dear Jay,

      I have not been in hardware development, but have owned several Brytons, so I know how hard it is to build good and reliable hardware (they did) and gain enough marketshare, acceptance and compatibility (they managed this less well). And I fully sympathize with Wahoo (owning a REFLKT+), so I am mainly disappointment – not angry – with them for not making their own date.

      As for the ‘blow-by-blow’; no need for that, but you are not helping them either by trying to make up excuses for them, I think they are capable enough to tell the customers what is needed. And experienced enough to not just throw a date at us.

      Personally I needed something now with full navigation, so I bought the Edge 1000 and will use it until the ELEMNT proves to be as good or better (hoping it eventually will manage to do full navigation as well, meaning to (re)calculate a new destination while on the road).

      As I said, keep up the good work, WAHOO!

    • Dave

      Well said Robin. I think it’ll be worth the wait…and when did we all get so spoiled and prone to tantrums over consumer electronics??

    • Andy

      The thing is Jay, all you are doing is proving why people are upset about the delays. You say delays can be down to containers being left, palettes laying around blah blah blah…well if thats the case then why, as in Wahoo’s case, would you market a product well over 6 months before you’ve even built the thing for testing? thats what people are fed up with.

      I have no doubt that some of the reasons you give are valid, but thats not the point. If a product developer knows these things can happen then don’t build the buyers hopes up for over 6 months giving them release dates. Its not rocket science. Its fine if a product slips by a month because of some of the things you mentioned but over 6 months is taking the piss. If you booked a flight and it was late by 6 months would you be happy, despite being told its leaving on a set date and having bought your ticket?

      The other gripe people have is that its ok to promote a product for the future, but don’t show whizzy 3D graphics and images with what looks like a fully built up system. That gives the impression its all done and dusted.

      Telling us to shut-the-f*ck up doesn’t make you right either. You may know something about building things but you certainly know sweet-f*ck-all about buyers. Its no wonder your hardware products never sold, nobodies heard of them. Prick.

    • Let’s keep it civil folks.

      As for marketing things months in advance, I’d point out that many brands do that – including companies like Apple (the Apple Watch, was announced roughly 8 months prior to shifting). Heck, and even they cut features out of the unit in order to make that ship date.

  204. Paul

    Telling people to STFU and stop complaining doesn’t cut it and is wahooasslickerish.

    It is different when money has changed hands.

    If a company can’t bring their product to market as promised, that is not the customers problem. The company shouldn’t have put a date to when it was going to be released, and they shouldn’t have taken people’s money. Many people would not have been as bent out of shape if they were charging them when the unit shipped verses up front.

    Many of us want an alternative to Garmin products, but at the same time Wahoo Fitness kind of put their own foot in it as well. That’s on Wahoo Fitness for how they run their business. The same as their representatives coming here and talking is also representative of their customer service.

    Many of us have probably dealt with newly released products and understand delays. Again the delay really isn’t the issue as much as that money has changed hands. Kudos to Wahoo Fitness for the offerings on 20 rebate/certificate. It would be nice to add that on to anyone who has prepaid the Elemnt and made the price that much better for them.

    That would have went further in my view.

  205. Victor

    I think cc merchant rules typically prohibit pre-charging credit cards for preorders, only for out of stock items.

    As someone who has preordered, I saw my cc statement charge back in December. It’s more a disappointing business practice than anything. Don’t take money unless you can deliver on a written promise. It says to me that either wahoo is greedy or having cash flow issues.

    • Jay Batson

      Um, can you say “Kickstarter”? Vendors commonly use paid pre-sales (pre-orders).

    • Victor

      A Kickstarter is NOT a preorder. It’s a payment to back a project with no expressed guarantee of product, just that a delivered product as a target. That’s how they get around these merchant rules. That’s also why project failure and loss rates are ridiculous.

    • I suspect the actual reason is less nefarious than you think. It’s simply that the pre-auth on the credit card expires. So either they have to go back to you for a credit card prior to shipping, or, they have to charge in advance (or, they permanently store your CC info, which very few companies want, and even fewer people want companies to do).

    • Dan Kothlow

      I imagine that there could be some irate customers if Wahoo didn’t charge until it shipped, and those customers might have forgotten about ordering, and didn’t have room on their card for the purchase, and it was declined, or the customer incurred an overage fee on their card.

    • Andy

      Or here’s a thought, how about not offering a ‘Pre-Order’ on something that hasn’t been built yet?

      It’s like buying baby clothes for someone who isn’t pregnant.

    • Every consumer can choose whether or not to buy something that’s on pre-order. But, the very nature of the name implies it’s before – inclusion of ‘pre’.

      Pre-orders are good for lots of reasons. Both consumer and company.

      It offers the consumer the opportunity to hold a place in line without getting into bidding-war type purchases that you see on eBay.

      Meanwhile, for companies it allows them to better judge manufacturing requirements as they approach shipping. Thus ensuring units available for the market.

    • Daniel

      Ray,

      I agree with your comments — but in this case, it feels like the product was *not* close to shipping when the initial pre-orders were accepted. Certainly hindsight is 20:20, and maybe unexpected things occurred. Nevertheless, Wahoo was very quick about my order cancellation and refund. I now have a Garmin 1000 fitted, and am happy.

      I wish Wahoo the best of luck with this product and will continue to purchase their (commercially available!) cycling gadgets.

  206. Victor

    True, probably not nefarious; but not good consumer-facing practice either to charge if the product has to line of sight with release. (I’ve worked at a few of these companies)

  207. Drew Eckhardt

    1. Is the map screen customizable? I’d like to have heart rate and/or power visible for pacing while navigating on long rides in unfamiliar surroundings. The Joule GPS will do that on its navigation screen, but only does bread crumbs without maps.

    2. If so can I get two fields there?

    The ridewithgps android app does a lot of data fields plus a map, but battery life is insufficient for long rides in unfamiliar surroundings where navigation is necessary

    After 20,000 miles the buttons are starting to separate from my Garmin Edge 500 and I need a replacement.

  208. Luis

    Will the unit display power as a 3 second moving average? Thanks.

  209. I am curious if you would be willing to open yourself up to more mis-directed anger by commenting on if the nature of the remaining issue(s) are hardware or software related? Meaning, do you need to get the sensor issue solved before units can roll of the assembly line and then float over from Asia for 10 days, or are you be able to ship to customers a day after you lock down the code?

    Also, can you give me a ballpark release date for the upcoming Wahoo ENRGY™ Power Meter?

    • Wahoo Murray

      It’s just software, we have production running at full capacity. Once we verify the software we will start shipping units within a couple days. (we have stock in our warehouse)

      To be honest, I doubt you will ever see any power meters from Wahoo.

    • Dan Kothlow

      “Start shipping in a few days” – as in a few days from NOW, or a few days after verifying the software?

    • NY Giant

      Hi Wahoo Murray,

      I noticed the Android app isn’t available just yet? Any word on that? I was assured that I wouldn’t be left out in the cold. You guys released yet another YouTubr video, but still no update via email to customers who have pre-ordered after not just one but two delays.

    • Wahoo Murray

      A few days after we verify the software.. I will keep everyone posted.

      Android App is ready but since we don’t have the same review issues like we do on the Apple App store we are just holding it until we start shipping units.

    • NY Giant

      Thanks for the reply. In that case, you guys can ship mine being I’m rocking on the Android platform, hehehehe (only half-joking)

    • Stephen

      Funny….! If they ever did develop one with the crank-arm design, they’d have to put the crank arm mounted speed/cadence sensor somewhere else though.

      I really like what I’ve read about the ELEMNT so far. I was going to upgrade my 500 to a 520, but am seriously considering this one now. I really think Garmin could use some stiff competition and this might be a good start.

      STP

    • What KR15 says, but with Campagnolo (Chorus) logo’s!

  210. Mark Hewitt

    I’ve downloaded the ELEMNT iPhone app but can’t do anything with it because I haven’t got a unit to pair with. But the quality of the app is a major selling point in it’s own right and I would like to have a play with it to see if it’s any good before purchase.

    • Dan Kothlow

      I noted that as well, in post #486. I’d really like to see some of the capabilities of the app without having to pair it to an ELEMNT.
      I could understand someone thinking that the app itself is a GPS tracker, but hopefully Wahoo will change it so that pairing is not the first thing that happens when you open the app.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Even if we let you past the fist setup there isn’t anything in the app that you can play with. It really needs a ELEMNT connected as all the settings and configuration are done in real-time. The best you could do is sign in to the accounts you have setup.

      I will discuss the in our next meeting about maybe having a option to have a demo mode, but right now its not something the app supports.

    • Dan Kothlow

      Not to be snippy, but does that mean that anytime you want to make a configuration change in the app, the ELEMNT has to be nearby and powered on?
      Once it’s paired, does the app need to be connected / in communication with the ELEMNT to be used? If not, I can’t see a reason why the app can’t be used without being paired.
      I understand if you want to SEND the configuration to the ELEMNT, that’s perfectly logical.

    • Wahoo Murray

      You can browse your workouts but configurations are done on when connected. Some settings are be configured on both the ELEMNT and the phone, it makes it very hard to send the configuration changes “later” as the user might have already made changes on both sides. While it may be possible to resolve these conflicts, in order to simply this interaction we have only allowed for configurations to be changed while the device is connected.

    • Mark Hewitt

      Thanks Murray,
      I’ve put an order in. Now don’t let me down ;)

  211. The iOS app was just updated. I see this as a good omen.

    • Oops… Maybe I spoke too soon It crashes my iPhone 6s on launch. I tried restarting my phone. no luck. It crashes 100% of the time. I guess I will buy the SHAKR instead.

    • MDK

      here the updaded app works, now it’s possible to edit some settings and add your accounts (strava etc.)

    • Wahoo Murray

      Its designed to crash on your phone.

    • Dan Kothlow

      It auto-updated on my iPhone6. I was able to get into some areas of the app. When I went to the profile section, and created a Wahoo Cloud account, it crashed. When I opened it up again, it was the same as before – can’t see or do anything unless it’s paired.

    • Mark

      Kind of figure they are letting folks register an account then booting out since there is nothing else to do until Elemnts ship.

      BTW Wahoo was letting folks upgrade their Kickrs to FE-C compliant beta firmware. Now that has been disabled. Just reading tea leaves and rune sticks.

    • Wahoo Murray

      We are just waiting for QA to finish testing the latest release and we also needed a new Android update to handle some other new features, once they have done we should be going live with the FE-C firmware.

    • I deleted the app and re-downloaded it from Apple and now I can watch a sweet intro video. Crisis averted. Does the SHAKR just count reps, or is there a heart-rate monitor in the handle?

  212. Declan

    I see BSX have added support for the Elemnt :-) C’mon Wahoo, get my pre-ordered Elemnt to me please :-) link to bit.ly

  213. This is fun… I tried to pair my app with the ELEMNT in this video when it shows the code: link to youtube.com

    Can somebody at wahoo find the device used in the video and click “pair” for me to complete the process?

    Thanks.

  214. Anne

    Hi,
    I was wondering which sensors are included with the elemnt?
    – speed sensor?
    – cadence sensor?
    – heart rate?

    Do you have the purchase them separetely?

    BW
    Anne

  215. crg

    Looks like the screen is 2.7 in!
    What is with such small screens?

    Is it that expensive to add a 4 to 5″ screen? Useful, esp with maps.

    Primary reason for inclining towards smartphones.

    • I think most cyclists actually don’t want a gigantic thing on their handlebars. If they did, they’d just buy a case for their phone.

    • Michael Robinson

      IIRC screens are a big drain on the battery as well so big screen plus always on (which is needed on a bike GPS) will probably add up to lousy battery life.

    • Mark Hewitt

      Last thing I’d want is a 5″ screen on my bars! You want it small and unobtrusive. 2.7″ seems a nice size but what you need to so is minimise the overall size of the device vs the screen. Which isn’t something Wahoo have done at all here, the thing is huge.

    • Luis

      Oh jeez. It’s smaller than the edge 1000. When you’re out on the road, especially when you’re doing a big effort, the last thing you want is have to struggle to read the data on your computer. Wahoo have done a very good job at making it easy to read. Both in terms of screen size and the high contrast. Also the screen to overall unit size ratio is very comparable to the Garmin Edge units. The 520 may be small, but it has a lot of bezel around the screen.

    • Mark Hewitt

      The Edge 1000 and 520 are also rather large in comparison to the size of their screen.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      I’d be happy with my 142mm x 72.5mm phone atop my 120mm long stem.

      Unfortunately, battery life can renders my Samsung Galaxy S5 Sport useless as a bike computer and almost non-functional for navigation. I can’t get through a long ride (8+ hours) keeping it in a pocket and only pulling it out to turn on GPS and fire up ridewithgps when things get ambiguous enough printed cue sheets become insufficient. With Google Maps I got down to 5% driving less than 2 hours to a ride, and only had my phone available for potential emergency use because I charged it at a coffee shop.

      Reviews evaluating how phones and apps work with bikes could be very useful – if others aren’t that bad I’d have happily settled for a smaller screen or slower CPU when I spent $600 on mine.

      A dynamo front wheel is an imperfect workaround few cyclists accept. You pickup at least 200g if you’re not running lights (although with you can come out ahead, swapping 200-400g of battery pack for 200-400g of hub), have to integrate one into a wheel, and need a separate power supply on longer rides because lights with built-in USB ports make you chose between illumination and charging.

      I pre-ordered an ELEMNT so I could power and heart rate for pacing on the same screen as maps without dealing with those phone problems. The Joule GPS was the closest I otherwise found to meeting those requirements, providing two fields plus navigation by bread crumbs. Garmin should also be able to do that with simple software changes, although their bike GPS group doesn’t seem to include a product manager who rides enough to make that happen.

    • Robin

      My Garmin Edge 1000 does just that: I can configure a screen which shows a navigational map, with for instance heart rate and speed on the bottom.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      I missed that perusing the manual. Ray’s review notes

      “With the Edge 1000 you can have five data screens, with each screen (page) containing up to 10 data fields (1-10). Further, you have a map page, a compass page, an elevation chart page, the lap summary page, and the virtual partner page. Each of those ‘special’ pages allows you to specify two additional data fields on them.”

  216. DDD

    wondering if someone with experience with their wahoo’s previous products can give an educated guess on what the actual “street price” might be based on the msrp? Just grabbed a lezyne super but may return it and wait for this one.

  217. @Murray, wondering whether multiple sensor support (mainly for SmO2 but also power; functions should include pairing, display, storing and export) has made it into the product? If yes, would you be able to provide some information (screenshots, export format)? If not, would you be able to say whether it is planned or not? Thanks.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Right now we support only a single Sm02.

      We do support multiple sensors of the same type but due to restrictions with The FIT file support you cannot view/export this data.

      We are considering additional file support to store/share the raw data from all sensors but currently do not have any confirmation that this will go ahead.

  218. Mark Hewitt

    Will there be any updates in the future to allow us to further customise how the LEDs are used?

    It occurs to me that using them for the ‘above average’ , ‘below average’ function is about as useless a function as they could possibly be put to (no offence!). Whereas configuring them to show an LED to for each heart rate or power zone would seem an ideal usage, so while you’re giving it everything you can just glance at the LEDs to make sure you’re in the right zone rather than trying to decode the numbers.

    Also the top ones could be used for navigation, blinking indication on the left or right to show which way you’re going to need to turn at the next junction, so that you can navigate without having to lose your data fields in the process.

    • Wahoo Murray

      100% yes. We already support zones on the left LED’s.

      Once we enable turn by turn (with RideWithGPS) the top LEDs will be for Left/Right (one of the original reasons why we added LEDs).

      We have several other ideas and features for the LEDs in the future.

    • mark

      LED flexibility looks good. I do climbs based on power so such is useful for me.

    • Daniel

      Will you be able to add waypoints that are off-route? i.e., if I have a campsite or resupply store that is not exactly on the route, will I still be able to upload that and use it on the map screen? I’m eagerly waiting for this device… but need it to replace a Garmin eTrex in functionality as well as be a great cycling computer

    • Wahoo Murray

      We don’t right now but I do like this feature on RideWithGPS. I’ve added it to the list, we are planning a bit of a feature update to maps in the next couple months. Thanks

    • Michael Robinson

      Cool. I had thought of this myself but was going to wait until I had actually used ELEMNT with RideWithGPS maps before asking!

      Some other questions:
      – Are RideWithGPS custom cue sheet entries supported? This is different from off-route POI in that these are on-route custom cues and RideWithGPS supports a list of Types such as “Water”, “Food” with Notes and Description.
      – Is it possible to set a regular alert (beep, LEDs..) based upon time or distance? Such as beep every mile travelled, or every 30 mins, for example.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Custom cue sheets for RWGPS will happen at the same time.

      Nothing for just regular alerts, you could configure auto-laps for this.

  219. KilkennY

    Looks great.
    Any timeline on release date and on a in dept review?

    • In-depth review would likely be a few weeks or so after final software release. Depends a bit on travel/etc…

    • Jason

      Wahoo told me shipping in 2-3 weeks in a Facebook message yesterday

    • Mark Hewitt

      2-3 weeks is fine by me if that’s what it’s likely to be. Weather and fitness means I probably won’t be doing any long outside rides before then anyway.

      Will I have to wait longer if it’s being shipped to the UK?

    • Rob

      So the November release that got pushed back to January is now pushed back to March…

    • Michael Robinson

      Will pre-orders for the ELEMNT take up all of the initial shipment, so new orders will need to wait longer?

      (Not that I have a problem with people who pre-ordered being first in the queue, just trying to understand if the wait for people who haven’t pre-ordered may be quite a bit longer than 2-3 weeks…)

    • Michael Robinson

      … and forgot to add, the reason why I haven’t pre-ordered is I want to read Ray’s in-depth review first, naturally ;)

  220. Luis

    I would like to be able to configure the LEDs on the side to show 7 power zones, and the top ones to show 5 heart rate zones.

    Will the unit help riders calculate their FTP? Having a feature that guides riders to complete the testing of their FTP would be great. For example telling riders when to start their warm up, and when to start their big 20 min effort, etc.

    Also will it estimate VO2 Max like the Garmin units?

    • Wahoo Murray

      I have added your LED request to the list, its not something we had planned.

      No automated FTP tests or other pre-planned workouts yet.

  221. Alan

    Any update (since Sept) on Varia radar integration? Looking to upgrade by 510 to a 1000 for radar and mapping. This would be a nice change if it supported. Even willing to wait a little if it’s in the planning.

    Any word from the Wahoo team?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We don’t have anything scheduled in the near future but it is not too far down the list of niche ANT+ profiles we want to add.

  222. [1] This thread is amazing (606!).
    [2] I am starting to worry about my “early-March” ship date. Does this make me a pessimist?

  223. NY Giant

    Wahoo Murray, to heck with all the advanced features, let’s just get this thing shipping!! A lot of us who pre-ordered, and PRE-PAID might I add, back in NOVEMBER 2015 have been patiently waiting for months. Let’s get cracking!! If it can connect to my sensors, then it’s functionally sound as far as I’m concerned

    • Wahoo Murray

      Trust me it’s our primary focus, we have 3 teams around the world making it happen. Different people do different things so while we are 100% focused on shipping it doesn’t mean everything else stops. The wait is nearly over!

    • NY Giant

      It’s “early” March. No email updates from Wahoo since that last one at the 25th hour in January begging us pre-orderers to hang in there. What’s up?

  224. vent

    link to dcrainmaker.com

    Hi Wahoo Murray,
    does this mean that you have started shipping?
    cheers
    V

  225. Ray says there’s “one last bug” you (Wahoo) are trying to fix. Have you mentioned in public what it is? I’m really curious.

    • NY Giant

      Is it the Android app being its not available for download like the iOS app? And no, I’m not just gonna “get an iPhone”. I have the right to enjoy this product like anyone else. In actually rumor has it the issue is with the iOS app as opposed to the Android. Wahoo should just go ahead & ship mine!!

    • Mark Hewitt

      Calm yourself nobody is saying that. Murray has already said that the iOS app is only out because of the Appple approval process Android doesn’t have that so they will wait until they start shipping.

    • NY Giant

      Mark – don’t talk to me like that, I’m not your son. Real easy to talk tough tapping keys, but believe me – you wouldn’t face to face!

    • Mark Hewitt

      Like what. You were the one throwing unfounded accusations around. Again, calm down, it’s all good.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Our iOS and Android apps are both ready and 100% feature for feature the same. The iOS app is ready available and the Android app will be live next week.

    • Jeff Miesemer

      The Wahoo Elemnt Android app just popped up on Google Play. I’m hoping that’s a positive sign.

    • Here’s a link to the Android app:

      link to play.google.com

      Looks like the ELEMNT was (code)named Bolt during development.

  226. NY Giant

    As in calm down, Mark. I’m an adult so don’t talk to me like that, save that for your sons! And I wasn’t throwing accusations around. I clearly said rumor has it aka it may not be the truth aka I’m not absolutely sure aka I could be wrong aka it’s just what I heard, but you’re the know-it-all so I should just shut up, right? I think NOT! And not that I’m following your orders, but I’m perfectly calm. However, I think I’d be well within my rights being somewhat impatiently waiting for a product where I’ve pre-paid & two delivery dates haven’t been met.

  227. Rutger L

    So my RFLKT just died, so this would be a fantastic time to start shipping the ELEMNT (in Europe) :-)
    Been holding off from buying a Garmin 520 or 810 instead, I’m checking the Wahoo website everyday for status updates…

  228. Dan Kothlow

    A post on slowtwitch.com on Feb 24 said that they would be shipping preorders within the next week.
    link to slowtwitch.com

  229. Paul

    Wahoo Murray,

    Is there any truth to the slowtwitch article that pre orders will be shipping next week or is that the article’s author just translating early March?

    Thanks

    • Rob

      Looks like they’re still taking payments at the Wahoo website but the March release date is nowhere to be found. The catch is that some of us who pre-ordered might be out of the 60 day window to dispute the charges with our credit card vendor if this doesn’t ever ship.

      I’m guessing this was just a way to avoid the 10% Kickstarter fees. Take payment up front while you’re still in the R&D phase. Well played.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      “will ship early March” is still there on the pre-order screen.

    • JMG

      I wouldn’t worry about them running off with your funds. Whatever you may think of Wahoo charging your card right away (I think its BS but I they clearly stated they would do it), they’re not that kind of business in my experience and Ive been buying stuff form them for a long time. Frankly, I decided to go with the Garmin 1000 so I asked Wahoo for my money back on my ELMNT order a week or so ago and they took care of it. No deals, no complaints…just good customer service.

    • Daniel Pass

      I did the same, and simply went to a Garmin 1000. Refund came quickly from Wahoo without any drama.

      Very pleased with my new Garmin 1000, but do wish Wahoo the best of luck with this product when it eventually launches.

    • Mark MK

      None of us doubt that they would give us a refund if we asked for one, it’s the lack of clarity that is slightly irksome. I’m a Wahoo fanboy so am OK with holding out… but the silence with regard to even an estimated shipping date (i.e. second week of March) is the worrying thing.

    • Victor

      I’ve worked in the sports industry as well as my core competency of Electronics. Delays are inevitable. It’s really the charge-ahead part that is irritating and actually a bit out of the norm. I preordered the Fre power case for my iPhone 6 Plus, and that thing ships April 29th. They only charge when it ships. Same thing happened with a Yamaha soundbar I preordered a few weeks ago from Crutchfield.

      My guess is that wahoo is a small sub-100 person operation so in the best case, the logistics of charging when shipping is hard. In the worst case, this cash on hand is helping them pay for units without needing to float short term cash for their on hand inventory. Financially conservative on their part, but not very customer friendly if the product ends up being not shippable or keeps on slipping.

      I’ll still wait for the unit and keep my preorder, but I purchased a replacement Edge 1000 again (lost last one somewhere in the house).

      My expectations on this unit on low.

    • JMG

      Agreed, more communication can be better than less but think about what other vendors share when things are delayed…I feel the fact they shared *anything* puts them in a better position than most. They announced delays, they’ve offered discounts for folks that preordered and generally kept folks in the loop directly via email and through this forum, one of the more read bicycle blogs WW. If I had a vote, I would have suggested refunding that discount on the actual order instead of offering discounts on more items but again, they did offer something and my experience was a nearly immediate total refund when I asked. Charging at the time of the order with an expected ship date may also seem bush league but they were crystal clear on my order that a) they would charge immediately and b) they were working on an as yet unreleased product and I should be prepared for production delays. I’m not in the bike industry but I do develop software and despite our best efforts, sometimes you run into something that keeps you from shipping.

      It may sound like I’m defending them blindly but remember, I’m doing so from the position of having gone with the G1000 after having preordered the ELMNT. My original post was simply to let someone know that IMHO, Wahoo wasn’t going to walk away with their cash. My reason for changing is that I simply wanted to get on with a cyclocomputer instead of using my phone and a remote display (RFLKT) for my now longer training rides and I didn’t want to be changing head units after I got my personal road season underway. I suspect I’ll miss the LEDs (great idea) and KCKR control but I get something of the former with alerts on the Garmin and the latter isn’t a must have because I figure I’ll still keep stationary training with my iPad anyway.

      Like Mr. Pass said, I wish Wahoo nothing but the best and I’d love to see the ELMNT succeed as competition makes the entire marketplace better for all.

    • Victor

      Let me clarify one thing. My core competency is supply chain. I work with electronics OEM/CM/Suppliers all the time.

  230. James Lombardo

    Two questions: will the element be able to control music and will turn by turn directions cost a monthly fee like the reflect?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We haven’t added music control, we found with RFLKT it wasn’t really used, it’s very popular with watches like the Echo but we didn’t think it was worth it for ELEMNT. I’ve added it to our feature request list and if we get more interest then its definitely something we can look at adding.

      We are getting the Turn by Turn instructions from 3rd party vendors so its really up to them, however RideWithGPS will be available free of charge and we hope any other venders will come to the same arrangement.

    • Wahoo Murray

      I should add, as of today (2nd March) Turn by Turn is currently disabled, but it should be enabled sometime this month.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      Presumably that implies turn-by-turn does not yet work for routes uploaded as .TCX (or .GPX) files, or just via direct integration with ride-with-gps / etc.?

  231. Paul

    Still waiting for anything from the wahoo team.

    I wasn’t looking for a “Yes we are going to ship on Wednesday” answer.

    The article was posted from Slowtwitch that made a claim they would ship this week. Even if the answer is this week, early next would be great, or the article in question was taking the early march projections and they aren’t right kind of answer.

    Love the fact the Wahoo Team has answered questions here. But hate the fact they haven’t communicated very well the date. Taking peoples money they could do a hell of a better job in keeping people informed as to the release.

  232. It is now “Early March” and somewhere a project manager is drinking heavily. Meanwhile, a team of programers wearily codes on; the end of the critical path on their gantt chart fading away like a mirage.

  233. Mark

    Just texted with a Greg Gaffney at Wahoo Fitness. Per him the first batch of Elemnts are in hand and receiving latest firmware. Per him shipment within 10 days

    • Roadscrape88

      Per acquaintances via friends here in Atlanta, Wahoo has had a shipment of units in hand for several weeks. Those units (one can only assume the first round of pre-orders) have to be updated with the latest software version once Wahoo feels it is stable for both iPhone and Android. Hopefully they don’t want to do a release with known bugs such as Garmin typically does.

      Garmin is the 800 pound gorilla and knows they can get away with it. Wahoo is a small company that knows a buggy release could be their downfall. Personally, such marketing tactics drive me nuts about pre-orders with no hard release date, but I understand the psychology of it. It reminds me of when the Miata first came out – people put hard money down without knowing how many weeks/months before they could drive one off the lot. What people will pay for the latest and greatest…..

      Wahoo Murray deserves a round of applause for taking the public’s heat and maintaining updates on a number of sites/blogs.

  234. MaterD4l

    From Wahoo’s account on Facebook after asking if there was any update this morning. 030216

    “These will be shipping out very soon. All of our pre-ordered units will be shipping in the next 10 days. Some of our early orders will be even sooner. If you’re trying to order now, we are expecting these to be available at the middle of this month. Please let me know if you have any further questions.”

    • Dan Kothlow

      I received an email that it would be shipping today.
      No tracking email, but I have it shipping to a USPS Post Office Box.
      I ordered on 16 November.

  235. Jason

    just got fedex shipping confirmation, should be delivered Friday
    w00t!

  236. Nicolas

    I just got an email from Wahoo saying that the ELEMNT will be shipping in 7 days. I preordered it last week.

  237. I received an email saying it would be shipping out to me in the next 7 DAYS. I ordered on Feb 3.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      I ordered on February 5th and got a 7-day shipping notie.

    • Rob

      Ordered first week of Dec. I got the generic ‘your Elemnt shipped’ email today but no tracking. I’m close to Wahoo, though, so maybe it went USPS. Either way should be here soon!

    • Drew Eckhardt

      My 02-05-2016 order just shipped on 03-04-2016, in 2 of the promised 7 days.

      I hope that’s a good omen.

  238. mark

    I received a email notifying me that my Elemnt bundle shipped today. No tracking information.

    The important info is that it shipped. If it is unlike Garmins and is bug free the delay is worth it.

    As life is never a smooth path it is best to not sweat the small stuff.

  239. Using my companies VPN I landed on the US wahoo page, and was able to preorder. (Did not do it, as I am in the netherlands) the eu,wahoo site, still has o option to preorder….

    Really looking forward to owning this device, and also do my own review…

    Just waiting….

  240. Paul

    Received my email yesterday that it shipped, still no tracking information. But I have faith it will be here soon enough :)

    • Rob

      Wahoo Elemnt in hand!

    • Rob

      Didn’t realize I could attach pics. I’ll setup a shared album somewhere and link to it.

    • Dan Kothlow

      I received a message from FedEx, I’ll go pick mine up later today.

    • mark

      Where r u located. GA? I’m NC so just anticipating

    • mark

      Where r u located. GA? I’m NC so just anticipating

    • Dan Kothlow

      I’m in SE Alabama.

    • Rob

      Okay. Elemnt arrives, it starts hailing outside. No ride today.

      Setup was easy. Almost too easy. I’m sure there’s a catch somewhere. It did update itself right away.

      Messed around a bit. Wifi didn’t want to stick at first but after a reboot it’s working. It didn’t want to download any of my RWGPS routes, I hopped over to strava and made two routes, those sync. I don’t pay for RWGPS, I am in my free trial of Strava so I don’t know how that will work down the road. Can’t try out the maps yet.

      I really like the pages. I customized one for road rides, one for MTB, and I like how you can zoom in or out. I’m sure I will tweak this more.

      Connected to my two ANT+ speed sensors easily. Renamed them after each bike, but I don’t see a place to setup wheel diameter… Is speed only off GPS? Surely not. I’ll have to look into this more.

      Wahoo Tickr paired as expected.

      Mounts- the square tabs are just a hair wider than my Garmin. I had my old plastic Garmin stem mounts around- a quick trim where the tabs slide into the mount and it works. It’s 90 degrees off though, so my plastic one piece out front mount won’t work. No worries, the included mount is even better. My only puzzle here is I have a K-edge stem top mount on my MTB, I hit trees sometimes and having the computer out front doesn’t work. I trimmed the plastic insert and it drops in but won’t positively lock, it just keeps spinning. I can’t figure out why. I’ll use the included wahoo zip tie mount until I can get a new k-edge insert.

      Charging it up now. The screen goes blank so to check progress you have to hit the power button- a quick tap and you get a battery icon with 4 bars.

      Hopefully I’ll ride tomorrow. I loaded up my usual training routes on Strava, so I don’t need GPS but I’ll see how it works.

    • Rob

      One more observation. Doesn’t seem to work with Cyclemeter. It’s odd because their other computers do. Maybe that’s coming down the road?

    • Dan Kothlow

      I picked up my Elemnt from Fedex this afternoon. No ride yet.
      RideWithGPS routes synced up for me, and I do not have a paid account. Strava routes also synced up, and I do not have a paid account there either. It would not sync them until I had setup the Wi-Fi.
      It’s done 2 updates now, I think. Not sure what the last one was, but it was a bigger one than the first, if it was in fact an update. When powering up the Elemnt, it said at the bottom “Updating”.
      It takes about 30 seconds from powering on until the data is shown on the screen. It calls the boot process “warming up”.
      I’m sure as I get used to it, I’ll find some things that I find quirky. But, so far, so good.

    • Kwen

      The Elemnt product page is also available now: link to wahoofitness.com

      I pre-ordered mine in the Netherlands, the shop has not yet informed to the delivery date, though. Fingers crossed it will arrive soon, so I can take it to Mallorca shortly, together with my BePro.

    • Hi Rob,

      You should be able to pull routes from RideWithGPS with a free account. Does the companion app show a check mark under linked accounts with RideWithGPS? Will you navigate to the map page -> routes and let the ELEMNT connect to WiFi again. Does it now pull in the routes from RideWithGPS?

      Tyler

    • Mark Hewitt

      Hi Wahoo Tyler,
      Is there an easy way to get my order cancelled and get a refund? I tried emailing support and got a case number #192443 but I’ve heard nothing back, I don’t want to have it shipped and then return it.

      BTW it’s nothing to do with the shipping delays, just changed money priorities!

    • Rob

      Yea, yesterday when I setup the accounts it listed RWGPS on the Elemnt, but once it finally did a sync it’s not there anymore. On my app, it has a check mark next to it. I’ve unchecked it and logged in again and the elemnt doesn’t respond. If I uncheck strava the elemnt immediately responds, and when I log back into strava it responds.

      I’ll try a few reboots and see, I can contact wahoo support directly as that’s a little easier for back and forth here.

      Just messing with it for a few minutes this morning the battery dropped 5%, I guess the wifi pulls a bit of battery.

      I figured out wheel circumference. Not sure how I missed that before. Very user friendly. I’ll set it to auto and see what the elemnt says compared to what the gamin said. I need to measure my new tires anyways.

    • Hi Mark,

      I’ve contacted our CS team. They will be in touch very soon. Sorry to see you go :(.

      Tyler

    • Rob

      Okay. Deleted all connected accounts. Rebooted E (short for ELEMNT- I’m tired of fighting autocorrect) and the app. Added RWGPS only. Sync. Success. Added Strava. Sync. Success.
      I have all my routes. I still have to type in the wifi password on the app to get it to sync, it seems to forget the password on reboot. I’m using an AirPort Extreme with WPA2 password security right now.

      Otherwise, Looks like I’m good to go. Hoping to ride in a bit.

    • Dan Kothlow

      Rob,
      Where is wheel circumference? I’ve been all over the app, and have not seen that. Is it even necessary?

    • Rob

      On the sensor screen, once you pair the sensor tap on the name. I think at first it just let me rename it. Maybe the little gray chevron by the name could help indicate there are more settings there?

      You can rename it or setup the circumference. Your options are auto/manual/or they have a pretty extensive list of nominal wheel sizes. Much nicer than flipping through a paper manual or googling wheel sizes.

      Probably not totally necessary for road riding, but for training indoors, MTB, anywhere with unreliable GPS it needs the circumference.

    • Dan Kothlow

      I have not setup any sensors yet, that might be why I have not seen that.
      Thanks, Rob.

    • Aaron Lesko

      it appears that the elemnt will only upload data via wifi? so if im on a camping trip without wifi but with good cell service I cant upload my rides?

    • Jay Batson

      Use your “Personal Hotspot” on phone as your WiFi connection while camping in good cell reception area.

    • Aaron Lesko

      i dont have personal hotspot capabilities im on sprint.

    • matt

      that kind of sucks if you can’t upload from bluetooth. I would find that hard to believe. maybe that’s getting pushed out in a software update you may need to run?

      I just got my shipping notice…ordered 2/19 so looks like they are getting caught up for everyone else pretty quick.

    • Aaron Lesko

      ^ its going to be a deal breaker for me if I cant upload my rides to strava using a cellular connection. I dont recall seeing any information about the Elemnt being limited to wifi for uploads until today. I ordered my back in October my order status is still on processing.

    • matt

      if you do a search for wifi on this page you will see that it notes bluetooth data transfers are indeed possible. it looks like you need wifi connection for bigger transfers such as a map update or other things like that.

      hopefully wahoo or another device-in-hand user can confirm that you can upload your ride via bluetooth connection to phone and aren’t restricted to wifi only.

    • Rob

      I just finished my first ride, and the ride is on my phone in the wahoo Elemnt app. I’m guessing it was sent via Bluetooth. From the phone you can upload it anywhere.

      I think I’m having wifi issues. The ride isn’t on Strava yet, I’m guessing it didn’t get pushed by the elemnt, and I kept it turned on for 10 min after I got home. I just pushed it from the phone app and there it is on Strava.

      I’ll keep tinkering with it. A bit of a learning curve with any new toy.

    • Wahoo Murray

      All rides are synced to your phone over Bluetooth, you can then upload them to any share site over cell, you don’t need wifi.

    • NY Giant

      Wahoo Murray,

      This may have been covered already – does the unit have an auto-shut off?

    • Wahoo Murray

      Yep.

    • For RideWithGPS, is there any method to sync those routes without WiFi (just via phone instead)?

      I’m at a hotel that has a sign-in page, so I can’t sync it that way. And in this country my phone doesn’t support a MiFi access point.

    • Wahoo Murray

      Sorry Ray, Routes only sync over WiFi.

    • Michael Robinson

      No support of syncing routes over Bluetooth will be a hassle when travelling, particularly internationally.

      Most hotel WiFi networks have some sort of login web page that means the ELEMNT can’t use them.

      I could use my iPhone Personal Hotspot to connect to the ELEMNT but then I’m paying expensive international roaming charges for the Internet connection and the whole point of hotel WiFi is to avoid this.

      Maybe I could connect my phone to the hotel WiFi, the phone to my computer using a USB cable or Bluetooth and the ELEMNT to the computer using an ad hoc WiFi network on the computer but this is getting complicated and I don’t even know if it will work.

      Is there a good reason why the ELEMNT won’t support syncing routes over Bluetooth ?

    • Wahoo Murray

      We understand the issue, It hasn’t been excluded as a option, just not available at this time.

      You will be able to load routes via USB via an update in the next few weeks.

  241. Jeff Miesemer

    After having a Garmin 510 mount break and my Garmin go bouncing down the road after hitting a pothole hidden in the shadows under a bridge (also two flats with one tube but that’s another issue), I became a fan of the leash on the 510. I was concerned about a similar situation with my new ELEMNT and without a case attachment point my paranoid solution is a camera lens cap keeper.

  242. mark

    Mine arrived and I paired up sensors etc. I run three power tap wheel sets and do not see any way to auto zero the hubs. Need t odd that in order to ensure accuracy. Does anyone know how?

    • mark

      t odd= to do

    • Wahoo Murray

      You don’t need todo anything, auto zero means just that, it’s automatically calibrated, it’s the great thing about PT

    • Drew Eckhardt

      Is manual calibration displaying what the manufacturer returns still possible?

      That guarantees a zero, suggests the unit is working correctly, and allows slope verification.

      For example, PowerTaps have a zero offset in inch-pounds which must be 512 +/- 12 outside which the unit is probably getting flaky.

      With the torque display you can sanity that reported torque is correct based on gear and weight hanging (or standing) on a horizontal pedal arm, with spot checks in several gears showing the unit’s slope.

      My Garmin Edge 500 and CycleOps Cervo both allow that.

    • Wahoo Murray

      We don’t currently display the value. I’ve just added it to our todo list, we have an update coming to show some additional sensor information and we can include it with this information. Thanks!

  243. jarz

    Any feel if there will be a stem mount with elastic bands (3rd party?) I try to do a rent & ride when i travel and it would be better than zip ties

  244. Jeff Miesemer

    My first ride impressions with the ELEMNT (keep in mind I’m a totally newbie user that didn’t spend a lot of time reading the online user’s guide):

    1. I can see it. I’m over 50 and had trouble reading my Garmin 510 even with progressive lens Oakleys. I had no issue seeing the display fully filled with 10 fields but really like the 8 and 6 field displays.

    2. The ELEMNT was fully charged overnight, and after 3:45:00 total on time / 3:23:00 ride time the battery was down to 60% with the backlight off. (Power meter, HR, SC sensors attached).

    3. I like to track TSS during my rides and found that the displayed TSS on the ELEMNT was greater than 2x my actual TSS. I did accurately set my FTP in the Android phone app along with other personal information and HR zones.

    4. My Samsung Galaxy S6 was not able to remain connected during the ride. It lost connection within minutes after starting the ride and then again after reconnecting it during the ride. My wife was unable to see my current location with the Live Tracking application, nor did I received phone or text message notifications (due to the phone being disconnected). I was able to received messages when my wife and I were testing our units last night when sitting in the living room with phones actively connected. My wife is currently out for a ride and I am able to follow her progress and appears her iPhone 6+ is staying connected to the ELEMNT. This makes me believe the my connection issue could be Android hardware related or Wahoo Android App related.

    5. I loaded a route through Strava, however, I like using plotaroute.com and looked for a way to manually upload the route (TCX or GPX) to the ELEMNT. It doesn’t appear there is a way to do that yet. I ended up importing the GPX into Strava and then syncing my ELEMNT.

    6. I would like to see a scale legend on the map and elevation screens. I could not find a way to turn it on or determine the scale of distance or elevation like I could in the Garmin. I like knowing how far until the next climb, how big it is, and how close I am to the top.

    7. In the Android app I found if I tap the ELEMNT version number under the INFO section of the settings page multiple times it tells me that “you are now ‘n’ steps away from ELEMNT BETA Firmware”. I have not continued with the taps to install the beta software as I don’t know what fixes or potential issues come along with the beta.

    8. Once completing my ride and reconnecting my phone (and/or connecting to my home wifi) my ride data was uploaded to my Strava and Training Peaks accounts. I did notice that the ride was duplicated in Training Peaks but that could have been caused by my tapiriik.com syncing service.

    9. I really like my new ELEMNT and feel confident that the items above, if actual issues, will be addressed in future software/firmware updates. Even if they aren’t, for me, this thing right now is miles ahead of Garmin 510, however, one ride does not make a good review.

    • Stephen

      @Jeff Misemer….. Thanks for taking the time to post your first impressions. I’m looking forward to seeing how this performs. My biggest “want” item for my next bike computer is easy loading of rides put together by my local club and getting turn-by-turn directions. It seems that the Edge 1000 is still the best at this (???) but I would *really* like to avoid getting another Garmin.

      STP

    • Dan Kothlow

      My first ride with the ELEMNT was pretty good.
      Very, very readable in full sunlight.
      The side LEDs did wash out a bit.
      Somehow, the fields I selected in the companion app were not the ones I had selected. It reverted to show calories. Not sure how that happened.
      I paired my TICRx for heart rate.
      I had not paired the Bontrager DuoTrap speed and cadence sensor, but I was still getting cadence. Took me a while to figure out that the TICKRx was providing cadence.
      The TICKRx dropped out about 1/2 of the way through my ride.
      For a 1 1/4 hour ride, the ELEMNT went from 90% battery to 73% battery. That seems like a lot of battery used. Not sure if it’s because it was trying to reach the TICKRx, or my iPhone. I did not have the companion app running in the background on my iPhone 6. I did have the phone with me, using Cyclemeter and the RFLKT+ as a comparison.
      I would like to see some clearer explanation of the elevation graphing. Some dark shading that doesn’t match up with the elevation profile. Not sure what that means.
      All in all, for my first dedicated GPS cycle computer, I’m very impressed.

    • Dan Kothlow

      One thing I forgot to add, and maybe it’s just me.
      I would like to see the speed to 2 decimal places. Or at least an option to make it show 2 decimal places.

    • Mark Miller

      I’m having the exact same issue as you with my Galaxy Note Edge. It keeps disconnecting during the ride. Hopefully they can fix this with an update. I also had issues paring the bar code with the ELEMNT app, but when using the Google Goggles app it worked instantly.

      Other than that, I’m loving the ELEMNT!!!

  245. Jay Batson

    Hey, Wahoo Murray –

    With end user experiences starting, I’m betting this is going to generate a flood of stuff that may make it into your roadmap.

    It’s arguable that having these dialogs here (at DCR’s site) isn’t the right thing to do.

    Do you have another customer forum, or place you’d rather get this feedback? I know at places I’ve been, we have had direct links between our Forums & our product backlog (using the Agile / Scrum meaning of the word “backlog”).

    RSVP
    -jb

    PS – apologies to DCR if this reduces desired traffic on his site. OTOH, he may be tired of this thread flooding his inbox. ;-)

    • Stephen

      @Jay Batson….

      I’m with you on the point that DCR’s blog isn’t the best tool for these discussions, if only because the software itself isn’t really suited to hosting threaded discussions as well as most others. As much as I don’t like dealing with Garmin, I do have to give them credit for hosting user forums that help users sort out problems. I’m not certain whether Wahoo does the same, but I hope they do or will look at it.

      STP

    • Rob

      I agree, we need an ELEMNT users forum. There’s certainly going to be lots of questions/tips/tricks with a totally new device on the market.

    • Tim

      You could do worse than go to http://cyclogps.com
      I’ve been posting on there for a while and there is a thread on the Elemnt.

    • Drew Eckhardt

      link to groups.google.com

      Just about the ELEMNT.