This past weekend I spent time riding on PowerTap’s latest products that were announced about two months ago (much more background in that post), all of which are in various non-final forms, but nearing release. They’ve got a full suite of new things out, so here’s the quick reference chart:
PowerTap P1 Pedals: Full left/right sensing power meter pedals
PowerTap C1 Chainring: Chainring based power meter (captures total power)
PowerTap G3: Existing G3 power meter wheel hub, but now have dual ANT+/BLE cap for it
PowerTap Joule GPS+: New bike head unit with smartphone connectivity/uploading
It’s the P1 and C1 that are likely of most interest to folks here, but I also make mention of the updated G3 cap (which can be purchased separately), as well as the Joule GPS+.
My test time period included two full rides (one about 3hrs and 40mins, another about 1hr 50mins), as well as one 22 minute ride trying to find my hotel room’s address/location (don’t ask). PowerTap provided a bike, which we then attached products to. Here’s a quick overview video of what I’ll be covering and my test setup:
Also, this is not a full review. Nor really a review of any sort actually. These are beta devices on only two rides. I view this post merely as a ‘check-in’ of where things stand. An update of sorts per se. Finally, as is always the case for media related events, I pay all my own travel expenses.
PowerTap P1 Pedals:
First up we’ve got the PowerTap P1 pedals, which are priced at $1,199. The pedals are unique compared to other pedal offerings on the market (by Garmin and Polar) in that everything is self-contained in the pedal itself, so there are no additional pods hanging off the pedal.
Installation is also more straightforward than those other units, notably Garmin Vector, as a torque wrench is not required here. To demonstrate the installation process I went ahead and installed a new set of pedals on the 2nd day to the bike. I did this due to some right-pedal drop-outs I was seeing during my ride the first day. Below you can see the full installation/pairing/calibration process:
As noted, prior to heading out for a ride you’ll zero-offset the units – similar to other power meters on the market. Though, it’ll also auto-zero for you as you ride as well (also similar to other products).
On the torque side, they’ll assume the same torque specifications of the crank arm itself, which is roughly translated to ‘reasonably snug’ (no different than any other pedals you’d install). The pedal will of course further tighten itself as you ride, and the P1 pedals will automatically account for that dynamically, as it tracks the position of the pedal itself.
Before we get on the road, note that PowerTap does include a slightly different set of cleats. These cleats have some very minor tweaks to the standard Keo compatible cleats. This ensures a more secure fit. For this weekend, I did NOT use said cleats, but just used the regular ones I had (I believe from Garmin Vector). I experienced no problems. However, another media member also used his own cleats and did pop-out once (hence why PowerTap recommends using the included cleats instead).
When it comes to riding, you’ll get left/right balance information from the pedals. In watching these numbers they were roughly in-line with what I normally see for my pedal balance. Of course, there’s no way for me to 100% validate that. However by virtue of the design of such systems the individual power contributions are added together – so if one were to incorrectly calculate one side, it would give incorrect total power numbers.
You can see this at the top right (51/49), which shows left/right balance (of the 329w to the left of that). These fields are all configurable of course.
Next, looking at some power accuracy comparisons, we’re going to focus on the 2nd day – since the first day had a wide range of things that seemed to hinder comparison testing – from an oddball crank length being set on one unit to dropouts of one of the pedals. The second day things were much cleaner and thus making for a simplistic and likely more realistic comparison.
Here’s the data for the three units overlaid together:
As you can see the data tracks very closely between the P1 and G3, which is good. The C1 is reading low (that’s in orange), which was expected. I don’t see any random separations between them where one or more power meters diverges significantly.
Next, to simplify things a bit, I took a 10-minute chunk (from 1900s to 2500s). It was just a random piece of the ride where things were relatively non-stop. I removed the C1 data from the below to make it easier to see the comparison between the hub and the pedals.
Finally, what about cadence? Here’s the same section. This time I swapped out the hub for the chainring. Mostly because the PowerTap hub cadence isn’t something I’d normally use as a ‘baseline’ (since it’s estimated) versus the chainring that I’d trust more. Note that the ‘drop’ you see in there is simply when I stopped pedaling for a second (so, it’s logical).
From a production standpoint, the company will be producing their first production batch next week, which they’ll then do internal testing on to validate everything is good to go. They’re expecting to start delivering pedals to consumers by around the 1st week of June, so about 30 days away.
PowerTap C1 Chainring
Next we get to the C1 Chainring unit, priced at $699US. They had warned upon arrival to the island that this unit would read about 10% low. This was due to them having hand-built the units used for the week on-site, but not having run them through their automated calibration machine back in Madison, WI which is part of the normal production process. They noted that it should be consistently low, which in fairness is what both myself and the other members of the media saw on our rides. I much prefer consistency inaccurate at a given known percentage, than inconsistently inaccurate.
In any case, from a usage standpoint things here are pretty simple in that there’s nothing for you to do other than jump onboard and ride. You can perform a zero offset, though there’s no specific need to as it’ll auto-zero when not pedaling (roughly similar in concept to how PowerTap’s hub works).
In my testing I saw things low on the PowerTap C1, as expected. Though, I saw them generally a bit lower – around 20%. You can see that below in the 10-minute slice (or up earlier in the larger shots). I also included the cadence data in the earlier section as well.
I’m not really worried about the chainring lowness right now. From a product development standpoint this unit is pretty ‘easy’ compared to that of the pedals. So if re-calibrating these hand-made units by machine as normally planned solves the issue as they say it will, then I don’t really have much reason to doubt them.
Now in talking to PowerTap the focus for product releases is first on getting the P1 pedals out the door. There’s only about 20 folks within the PowerTap product group, and the order of release is pedals first, then chainring units. So they’re looking at late June or early July for the C1’s to start making them to consumers.
Additionally, it was clear they are listening to the many requests for expanding component compatibility of the C1 – but at the same time their goal is simply getting the first variants out the door first (which is logical). Trying to boil the ocean rarely works, and as you’ll see throughout the post PowerTap appears to be taking a fairly serial approach to their upcoming product releases, with them ordered one after another much like planes waiting to take off.
(Note: I’ve provided the 2nd days’ worth of data within this zip file. See readme.txt notes inside.)
The Joule GPS+ with Smartphone Connectivity:
Next, we’ve got the Joule GPS+. I previewed this back in January when it was first announced. And I’ve been using it since then on many of my rides, though mostly in the mode where it’s capturing high speed data from one of the newer high-speed data PowerTap caps that they’re trialing.
So this was actually the first time I’d used it with the smartphone app. And I was pleasantly surprised – it worked really well in terms of downloading data. And I loved that I could easily transmit that data to tons of 3rd party platforms, or just shoot myself the .FIT files.
For the purpose of this post, I’ve put together a short video showing me ‘pairing’ the Joule GPS+ to my phone, and then downloading the data. Here ya go:
As you can see, super easy to use, albeit the app user interface might be a little bit clunky. But it gets the job done, so that’s OK for now.
The new dual ANT+/BLE PowerTap cap:
Last but definitely not least, PowerTap slyly pulled out a new PowerTap dual-capable cap for the existing PowerTap hubs. This cap will concurrently transmit on both ANT+ as well as Bluetooth Smart, from your PowerTap hub. Basically it combines their two existing ANT+ only and Bluetooth Smart only caps into a single unit. Which…is awesome. In doing so they join the growing number of companies that simply dual transmit on both protocols and give consumers choice. This includes Stages, 4iiii’s, and Wattteam.
From the outside, it looks identical to any other PowerCap – aside from the two logos being there. Inside it simply has a dual capable chipset.
I’m personally looking forward to this quite a bit (and now have a test cap to use) since I often do testing on both protocols. For example, if testing out any of the most recent Suunto or Polar products, they’re Bluetooth Smart only. Whereas on the flip side, the Garmin products are ANT+ capable only. So this enables me to test multiple products at once when I’m trying to connect to the same hub that’s transmitting full power (as opposed to Stages or 4iiii’s, which currently only do left-only power).
The exact release date and price for the cap is still being finalized, but the thinking is it’ll be available by the end of summer, and for somewhere in the ballpark of $150US. Right now the focus from the company is on the pedals first, then the chainring unit, and then finally getting this out the door.
As for my product review plans – I’ll likely be reviewing the P1 pedals first, probably timed to a mid-June release, depending on when exactly I’m sent a production unit/firmware. Following that the C1 chainring unit. I’ll likely include coverage of the Joule GPS+ unit within both of those.
Thanks for reading!
—
Update June 25th, 2015: You can now pre-order the PowerTap P1 pedals and PowerTap C1 chainring units from Clever Training. In doing so you’ll save 10% with DCR Reader Coupon Code DCR10BTF. In addition, you’ll get free US shipping. Note that I have also recently received final production units of the P1 and C1 that I’m now testing for my in-depth review. I expect the P1 in-depth review in mid-July.
Thanks Ray! Great preview, and I’m really looking forward to your in-depth reviews. One quick question: Are you also expecting to publish a full review of the Pioneer PM, and any idea when that might come out?
I don’t think he’s going to post a review of the Pioneer PM. From previous articles he’s had experience with the 1st and 2nd generation units but he consistently skips questions in the comments about Pioneer.
I do have a review underway (as I’ve alluded to in numerous posts in the last month). Potentially tomorrow, but that’s dependent on my work travel getting back home tomorrow morning (TBD).
Hi, i need to make a decision between stages and the powertap chainring C1. As per your test the C1 under reads by 20%? And stages underreads by 10% versus the powertap wheel? Can you please assist with some advise.
Thanks
Note that it was on the beta unit, and as noted they had a known offset they said before the weekend. I do not see that issue in more recent prototype/production units – you’ll actually see some of those more recent tests in my bePRO Power Meter tests.
Just today, PowerTap finalized the C1, and started shipping. So you’ll see my follow with an in-depth review here shortly as I get the final firmware updated.
Thank You Ray! Any worried on the P1 availability?
Nah, things are pretty stable there (unless they discover some odd production issue). They’ve been working on it so long that unlike others they announced at pretty much the finish line (I first saw it two years ago). I’d expect they’ll hit June in some form.
I haven’t followed all the C1 developments, so apologies in advance if there is an obvious answer to this question. Chainrings wear out relatively quickly. Is there an easy way for users to replace the chainrings themselves? Or would they have to be replaced by PowerTap or a mechanic?
Yes, the chain rings are seperate to the power meter and are the FSA all in one units, the power meter offsets the mounting points, but is not part of the chain ring
link to dcrainmaker.com
I think the p1 will be ther power meter for me it ticks all the boxes, so I am just waiting for your in-depth review. However I really would like a single pedal offering (I really don’t see the benefit of left/right for day to day usage) even if that meant I need to sit tight for 12 or so months.
My concern with a chainring based power meter is a compromise in shift quality. How was the front shifting? What technology do they incorporate to compete with Shimano’s front shifting capabilities (stemming from Shimano’s chainring stiffness, ramps, pins)?
Beard! Was that what you were doing on your vacation?
I was on an isolated tropical island before this trip…it seemed appropriate.
suits you!
Will the pedals or chainrings be Bluetooth capable?
Yes, both dual transmit on ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart.
This makes me happy: “They’re expecting to start delivering pedals to consumers by around the 1st week of June, so about 30 days away”
*sits in a corner counting his money*
Any noted change shifting between the big and small chainring?
Compatible with oval chainrings?
Offset data ?
I’m not sure I understand the question?
They missed an opportunity here. If you’re going to give incorrect readings, make them too high instead of too low. That makes the user feel awesome. 🙂
Ray have you testet to connect the Polar V800 with the P1’s. Will they work together?
Hey Ray, do you know if the cleats that are included with the P1 will work with normal Keo pedals?
Will new hubs made going forward transmit both Bluetooth and ANT+?
Will there only be the one high-speed data cap or is that functionality going into all three?
How did the pedals compare to the Vector in:
1. Tracking against the hub power meter?
2. Jumpiness in power readings? (I find Vectors jump very high when clipping in and pedaling after a stop)
3. Connection to headset and possible dropouts?
I can’t put Vector/PowerTap P1 on at the same time of course, because they take up the same spot. That said, I find both of them track well against the hub. I continue to see no problems with Vector accuracy (and very very rarely hear of issues with others having Vector accuracy issues either).
As for jumpiness, I didn’t see anything that differed from other power meters.
On the first day I saw a right-pedal drop issue, but putting on a new set resolved that. Nobody else had that issue.
Ray, how about Vector (left pedal) and P1 (right pedal) for some interesting data comparison?
Unfortunately you really can’t use a single right pedal from any system.
Your first ride with the P1 pedals looks promising. I’m anxiously awaiting 2 pairs of the Powertap P1 pedals (that I’ve pre-ordered) for my new Calfee tandem that is being built (and should also be ready in June). We’ve been riding a tandem for 2 years and always miss getting power data (since we ride with power on our other bikes). Since pedals seem to be the only real option for getting power data for both riders on a tandem, I’ve considered the Garmin Vector pedals, but have been scared off due to the issues I’ve heard with them. I’m hoping these P1 pedals turn out to be good…
That looks like one shyte display to me.
“Yo PowerTap, 1984 called…they want their display back”
Will left/right balance be available for older version of Joule GPS?
I can’t quite seem to find the complete firmware history, but I thought it was updated about 2 years ago to have power balance.
How quick is GPS acquisition on new Joule GPS+ compared to old one and Garmin devices?
It generally seems pretty quick to me. On part with current generation Garmin devices.
Hi Ray (and Justin if you’re around),
I am also interested in finding out compatibility with the Polar V800:
1. Will the P1s work with the V800?
2. If so, what data fields will be reliably displayed (e.g. total power, left/right, force?)
I think there’ll be lots of people having the same questions.
Cheers,
B
Ray, why haven’t you tested any iBike products like the Newton?
A lot of reasons. First, I just don’t see much demand. I get at most 1 e-mail/question about it every 1-2 months. So many other products get 30-50x that a month, so naturally, I focus on those. I only have so many hours in the day.
Second, I just don’t get the value of it. With other shipping power meters starting at $629, that’s basically $129 more than the Newton, and the accuracy is generally more known. While one can argue the iBike is a head unit, it’s really a horrible head unit by today’s standards. No part of using the device is enjoyable from an interface standpoint (yes, I bought one). I’m not actually as concerned about accuracy of the iBike, though I think it’s finicky in terms of setup and validating weights/etc…
I think there’s some really interesting potential if they separated out the head unit from the power/aerodynamics piece. Meaning, if they just sold it as a small dual ANT+/BLE power meter for $199 that transmitted over those standards, that could be very appealing. Many reviews have noted the same.
So essentially it can be summed up as with so many other cooler products that readers request reviews on, I don’t want to spend so much time on a product review for a product I already know I dislike on many levels.
Understood, thanks for the reply.
Just wondering if you have seen this:
link to store.ibikesports.com
Not quite $199, but close to what you described separating head unit from sensors.
That’s definitely in the right direction. I’d think it needs to be smaller/cheaper. I’d like to see it have no screen, no bigger than the Edge 500. It could be fully configurable via Bluetooth Smart over a phone app.
Agreed. They are probably just trying to leverage a single hardware platform as is their general model (adding features through software), although this model cannot be upgraded to actually use the screen.
I used to have a powertap hub but when I moved to a bike with disc brakes I got a Stages crank instead. I was surprised that I noticed the reduction in weight of the back wheel and the bike seemed nicer to ride and quicker to pick up speed (before I got the new bike I had a period on teh old bike with no powertap hub).
Ray – how much do you take the weight of the powertap hub into account when evaluating different power meters? Doesn’t it invalidate any weight saving on fancy race wheels? (I know weight is at center of the wheel so less effect but still…)
Will the weight of the C1 have a similar noticable effect as the powertap hub?
I like my Stages but it is much “laggier” than the power tap. It takes a few pedal strokes to show a value when moving away from lights (most of my riding is commuting) which is expected as it only measures one side…
Thanks
I haven’t looked into too many aspects of weight gains/benefits. I generally take the approach that I can save the extra grams (as it’s usually just a couple) by simply eating fewer cupcakes.
Yes, I completely agree agree about cup cakes. I am over 100KG (twitter name @BigBlokeOnABike) so generally I do not bother about weight of components.
The only reason I bring it up is because I could feel the difference when I removed the powerTap and the bike felt nicer to ride.
I know it’s only a few grams but I think that as it’s rotational mass it makes a difference.
Perhaps I imagined it…
You are imagining it. “Rotating mass makes a difference” is one of cycling’s perpetual myths. But let’s not distract by going OT.
Any suggestions where to pre-order P1?
My understanding is it’s only available on PowerTap.com right now.
If in France (like DC), you can order here:
link to capteurdepuissance.fr
Re the fitting of the pedals and no tension wrench(Installation is also more straightforward than those other units, notably Garmin Vector, as a torque wrench is not required here)
As I understand Vector 2 is the same as the pod clamps on, so no need for tensioning pedal fitment.
I currently have the polar V800 which i saw from an earlier review had support for third party Bluetooth smart power meters and was due 1st quarter for further upgrades to support. Has these upgrades occurred. Can the P1 be paired with the V800 and what sort of power metrics will be provided.
Did Powertap provide details of the metrics available on release and a road-map for future updates.
Polar did release that update, however it’s still somewhat house to house fire fighting. So they test/validate each BLE power meter and confirm supportability.
PowerTap has noted they plan to ensure it works with the V800 (or ask Polar to fix things). I didn’t think to bring one to test with me last weekend.
The pedals look really similar to the Xpedo ones which were due to be released. I wonder did Powertap buy the rights off Xpedo?
No, they didn’t. I commented on it up above, but in short, PowerTap has been working on this for quite some time. I first saw earlier versions about 2 years ago.
Xpedo is still…well…telling folks they’ll be releasing in 4-6 weeks.
Sorry, didn’t see your comment on it.
Ray I really want to like the powertap P1, but have to say my experience with Powertap has been rubbish, My hub has had 2 set’s of internals with the last 20 months and I did a manual zero onThursday and once again it’s out of the calibration parameters. Simply cant afford to be without a wheel at this stage of my season. How do you feel the reliability of the P1 will be??
It’s probably too soon to say on the P1.
That said, I just don’t hear of many reliability issues with PowerTap. I wish I had a better explanation for you, but it’s not normal. :-/
Hey Ray,
Thanks again for another excellent preview. Really looking forwrd to the full review of the P1’s.
I had a significant leg injury and want to move to a pedal based power system to track rehab.
Any sense yet if the P1’s would report the same metrics as the Vectors? e.g. Left and right offset, etc. And if the Edge 1000 will collect this data?
Initially no, they won’t transmit/support those metrics. In talking with them, they aren’t opposed to doing it, but they also want to ensure there’s actually value in the metrics.
Ray,
What is that mount clip you use to mount the Sony action cam to your handlebar? I’ve been looking for something like this to mount my Sony for safety reasons as number of cyclist accidents saw a dramatic rise this year.
Thanks!
K-Edge mounts, they have ones for tripod units (the Sony basically). Both for the front and under the seatpost too.
I think I’ve bought 6-8 K-Edge mounts by now for all my bikes. Love them.
When did you start riding a BMC? How do you like it?
It was just a loaner they gave for the few days. But…it was nice!
How standardized is the metrics data (L/R etc)? For example if I ride with the P1 using my Edge 1000, then upload to Garmin Connect. With all the metrics display?
Yup, no problems there.
Fingers crossed for a C1 compatible with SRAM CX1 narrow wide ings….
is this crank from fsa carbon?
Hi, anyone knows the release date, yet ?
I just called Powertap support, and they said it would be released some time in June, but they wouldn’t say exactly when in June.
Just as a super-quick heads up…
Update June 25th, 2015: You can now pre-order the PowerTap P1 pedals and PowerTap C1 chainring units from Clever Training. In doing so you’ll save 10% with DCR Reader Coupon Code DCR10BTF. In addition, you’ll get free US shipping. Note that I have also recently received final production units of the P1 and C1 that I’m now testing for my in-depth review. I expect the P1 in-depth review in mid-July.
PowerTap P1: link to clevertraining.com
PowerTap C1: link to clevertraining.com
Thanks for the support of the site via Clever Training!
Ok, so I love the site and the fact that you’re now doing a podcast with the real Starky. I do have a question for you on Power Meter choice though. I read your recommends and have tried out many different types of power solutions for on the bike and off the bike, but I am looking for something that I can use on my commuter/trainer/cyclocross bike. My concerns include beating the power meter up in all types of varied conditions, cost of possible replacement, and need for replacing wheels, switching up pedals, and overall cost benefit. I’ll ride standard road cleats and shoes for most of the year, but switch to SPD or Crank Brothers for Cross. I have 3 – 4 sets of wheels that I may use for a weekend depending on course conditions. Lastly, I currently use the PowerCal, but it can’t keep up with types of acceleration bursts that happen in Cross races. I would like to think the C1 would be a good fit, but I’m worried about durability and getting mud jammed up in the rings, or worse yet possibly hitting the rings while hopping a barrier. Any and all help in direction would be great. Thanks!
Hi Ray,
Like BobJ I’ve gone and wrecked a leg. I’ve started rehab and I’ve got the green light to get on the bike (trainer) and just let the injured leg go along for the ride.
In a month I’ll be starting to put a load on the left (injured) side. My questions are in regards to measurement and analysis:
1. Do the P1 pedals measure upstroke as well as the down stroke?
2. Is there an analysis tool (SW) to measure where the power in the stroke is? If I’m working specifically on upstroke would it be reflected in the data? I know when I’m doing extended max effort intervals I exhaust my down stroke and then I upstroke until that is also exhausted. Sometimes I can outperform my usual stroke by switching up for short periods like going up small hills. This data would be useful to any rider.
3. I already have the G3 and see that the data from the P1 tracks very closely to it. Based on the analysys SW that is available today, other than left/right balance by a percentage reading, does the P1 offer any more data than my G3?
I suspect over time left/right data will change how we look at power profiles, when the analysis sw catches up. It won’t just be a profile with your max, but a max with a percentage of L/R input and a slew of other analytic possibilities that I can’t conceive of….
Thanks for the great reviews.
Don
I assume the C1 chainring would be compatible with any cleat system, including speedplay?
Thanks!
Yes, correct.
Hi Ray, ive always had this burning question about pedal based power meters… are they really a good idea? i notice that the pedals are one of the bike parts that are always trashed. eg. when your bike tips over the pedals gets hit. when you lean you bike to a wall its usually the pedals that support it etc. is it really ok to spend more than $1000 for something that is this susceptible to damage? thanks.
Hi, using the PT supplied cleats, will they clip into regular Look KEO pedals? I don’t mind using their cleats rather than the regular KEO cleats, but would not like losing the abilty to use my shoes on other bikes that have, for example, a hub power meter already.
Thanks,
Mark
I’m (somewhat) patiently awaiting the full review on the P1. Any chance that’s going to be ready soon?
My current plan is to do my last test ride tomorrow on it (data-wise). Though, I leave early in the morning the next day for a week on a small boat – so unsure if I’ll be able to knock something out while on said boat.
At this point, though, very happy with it. As I’ve noted above and to others, unless I see something in the detailed data analysis that I haven’t caught while having 3-4 head units concurrently running – I suspect it’ll become my go-to power meter (replacing Vector).
Recently received Powertap P1 pedals and have taken for several test rides. Paied them wirh both my garmin 810 and Fenix 2. Have experienced some issues; (1). During ride the computers lose connedtion to pedals. (2). The domputers will indicate they lost connection to eight pedal. (3). Computers give inaccurate measuements. Contacted Powertap and they indicate the issue is with Garmin becasue the Garmin pedals: (1) update every 10 seconds vesus every second with Powertap. (2). Garmin pedals operate master/master to domputer versus Powertap master/slave. Powettap did two yhings: (1). Suggested I contact Garmin which I did. (2). Offered to sale me a GPS+ for $50. Problem is that I still have issues with my fenix 2 for triathlon and not sure I can pair my garmin heart rate monitor with the GPS+. A little concerned to that I’m throwing away money buying new bike computer when I just purchased the 810. What are your thoughts? How does GPS+ compare to 810? Will Garmin heart rate monitor pair with GPS+?
Thanks
Recently received Powertap P1 pedals and have taken for several test rides. Paired them with both my Garmin Edge 810 and Fenix 2 and experienced some issues; (1). During ride the computers lose connection to pedals. (2). Computers will indicate they lost connection to right pedal (will only show 50% of power). (3). Computers give inaccurate measurements. Contacted Powertap and they indicate the issue is with Garmin because the Garmin pedals: (1) update every 10 seconds versus every second with Powertap. (2). Garmin pedals operate master/master (left/right separately) to computer versus Powertap master/slave (left reports both pedals). Powetap did two things: (1). Suggested I contact Garmin which I did and am working with them. (2). Offered to sale me a GPS+ for $50. The problem is that I still have issues with my Fenix 2 for triathlon and not sure I can pair my Garmin heart rate monitor with the GPS+. A little concerned to that I’m throwing away money buying new bike computer when I just purchased the 810. What are your thoughts? How does GPS+ compare to Edge 810? Will Garmin heart rate monitor pair with GPS+?
Hello.Any update regarding the Joule GPS+ App compatibility for Android ( that could be a game changer for me) .Also,would the Garmin Edge 520 be able to read out/display “left and right” pedal data from the C1 pedals in real time ? Thank you.
I am using the pedals with a cheap Android phone running Ipbike software. After a few initial bugs that were fixed by the developer, very smooth sailing. Able to dynamically display left, right ratio as well. By adjusting crank length, you can correct for drivetrain loss and compare to your old powertap wheel data. I am actually still using both for comparison. If anyone interested, Powercranks are no issue, that’s what I use.
I’m confused on the Powertap C1 chain ring power meter… is there a sensor on each of the chain rings? Or just the large chain ring?
thanks….
Ray,
I just got mine today and in look at the cleats I noticed the RC7 model number. So I did a quick search and the cleats appear to be Ryder RC7 cleats and are available for $10 a pair on Amazon.
Hopefully saves people some money!
Will those cleats clip into regular keo pedals?
According to the amazon listing and review the answer is yes.
Thanks, that answers my question about using same cleat system for the PT pedals and look keo pedals.
Just a heads up. I have a Garmin edge 1000 and just got my P1 pedals. They sync up fine and report power, but on edge 1000 there is no way to set crank length. Bike profiles are gone on the 1000 and the sensor info under settings when paired has no input field for crank length. Very disappointing. Garmin flagship product not working with PowerTap p1. So far no word from Garmin or PowerTap. Anyone else know what Garmin head units allow crank length input for p1’s ?
Hi DC,
I have a Garmin 920XT. If I get the pedals conected to my watch, will get accurate information?
Thanks!
Yup, all good!
Hello
any news if the Powertap P1 work with Polar V800?
kind regards
klaus
I can confirm – it works- even L/Rbalance. Trust me
Forces are not displayed.
But, unfortunately I have technical issues with P1 (but that’s another thing, my bad luck or….)
thanks,
that are good news for Polar Users 🙂
and also Polar confirms that it will work
link to facebook.com
can I also calibrate the pedals with the watch (V800)?
there is posibility, but i havent try, jule have manual zero and auto zero, power numbers are the same
Hi Ivan,
Thanks for letting us know. Much appreciated. Hope you got your technical issues with the P1s sorted out.
Could you please let us know what exact V800/Polar Flow power data fields work with the P1s? The power data fields listed in Polar Flow are:
Power
L/R balance
Max force of pedal revolution
Power limits
Average power
Maximum power
L/R balance average
Lap power
Lap maximum power
Lap average power
Lap L/R balance average
Time in power zone
Lap power average
Lap power max (btw, I don’t see how this is different from ‘Lap maximum power’ from above…)
Automatic lap power avg
Automatic lap power max
Automatic lap L/R balance avg
Lap L/R balance avg (again, I don’t see how this is different from ‘Lap L/R balance average’ from above…)
To make it simple for you, just copy the data fields above and paste the ones that work into your reply. Saves you some typing.
Would be great if you could illuminate the way for the rest of us.
Bo
Bo, please understand , I have technical issues and don’t have opportunity to check. For one I’m sure – forces are not displayed, power (and L/R – yes). That’s all from me now.
Thanks…
Hi Ray
You mentioned some release issues with OEM Keo cleats…I wondered if the P1s have a mechanism to increase spring tension which might resolve this?
Thx
Hello Ray, do you have any news about P1 compatibility with suunto ambit 3? I’m anxious to buy P1 but I really need this info! Thanks a lot!
Hello Ray,
Did you test the Power tap C1 chainrings, I just installed mine this week and after the break in period and manual Zero in, I´m consistently getting readings about 25 to 30 Watts lower than my Wahoo Kickr, today after a 75 mins workout I got 165 NP vs 137 NP in the C1´s, and 158 AvgP vs 132 AvgP in the C1´s.
Powertap customer service tells me that Wahoo Kickr does not use torque power, it estimates it so that can explain the difference in the readings, what do you think about it?
Thanks
I haven’t put the final production unit on, it’s on my list for tomorrow. But I did run the prototype ones and never saw anything like what you’re showing. Odd.
Hi Ray,
I have been riding my first ride with my production unit C1. I was riding it with my coach on his Wahoo Kickr to determine my powerzones. Unfortunately I experienced serious offsets in comparison to the just calibrated Wahoo Kickr. The values on the Kickr seemed more appropiate (and not only because they were the higher numbers). I made a graph of the ride showing both the Wahoo and the C1 data. I have also included a graph showing the offset. As you can see the offset is different depending on the intensity. Any thoughts on how this happens and what I can do about it? Sander
And the offset
First ride, right?
What I found is that it’s taking 1-2 rides after install to settle. My first ride was a bit more off-set, then it settled in (same as a Quarq). If looks like you got a few nice sprints in there, which should help – maybe just jump on the KICKR and just do 4x10s hard (no warm-up required, just nail them), then re-zero.
I was just told by the Chat Line on the Powertap website that the C1 will not fit the Cervelo p2 frame? Can you confirm this?
Can you confirm if you have gotten an answer on this? All compatibility charts looked like it would fit my 2012 cervelo p2..?
Any word re compatibility with Cervelo p2? The compatibility chart suggests it should work!
Hey Ray. Bought the P1 pedals back in March and love them. Once my basic trainer died, after 5 years – pretty good value there, I went out and bought the Wahoo Kickr. I’ve ridden quite a bit on it now and I have noticed my power readouts (1 sec and 3 sec avg) to be anywhere from 10-20 watts higher on the Kickr than P1 pedals. I have also noticed that when my cadence is 95+rpm the P1 pedals drop another 3-5 watts compared to the Kickr maintaining the set watts. This happens whether watts set at 150, 180, 200, 220, 240.
Any idea on how to narrow the gap or if i should even worry about 15-20 watt difference?
If you use Wahoo Fitness app on ios, you can config your kickr to use external power meter (your p1) via ant+, so power will match perfectly…
This is the best way when you have a power meter… Your exterior ride and trainer session will use your power meter…
But not many app are able to use this config with kickr, ask developer of the app !
I understand the standard Keo cleats don´t fit properly the P1 pedals, but do the cleats that come with the P1 fit on Look Keo pedals? I have two bikes and not sure I like the idea of having to swap shoes.
Bruno, I bought the P1 in order to swap the power capability over to another bike easily while using the same shoes.
Indeed, I’ve had no issues using the P1 cleats on regular KEO pedals here and there (not a ton, but occasionally on one of my lesser used bikes).