Every once in a while there’s a run of a few days where a handful of sports tech items are worthy of discussion in more detail than a passing ‘Week in Review’ mention, but less detail than a full standalone post. Today is one of those times.
Usually of course, this is just my excuse to chat/spout about a few things I thought notable. And often so in response to a small avalanche of questions/comments/tweets/etc from you. And thus, begins today’s post.
Stryd Live Hardware Announced:
I briefly mentioned this last week as part of my Zwift Run launch post, but Stryd actually has a new device. The announcement wasn’t exactly very broad, so I figured I’d detail it a tiny bit more.
In short, Stryd (the maker of one of the main running power meters out there) has come out with a new lower-priced iteration of their footpod. This new $99 footpod does away with the advanced running metrics (including power), but retains the accurate pace/distance/cadence calculations they’re known for (Update: As well as vertical oscillation & ground contact time, metrics that weren’t initially listed when it launched last week). It still broadcasts on both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart concurrently.
This new pod, called Stryd Live, sells for $99 instead of $199. They’ve done away with wireless charging, instead going for micro-USB charging. Also, it has an orange clip instead of a black clip – ostensibly to match Zwift, since it was launched in partnership with Zwift.
Now the company says on their site that this is a limited edition sort of thing, but of course that’s silly. There’s no way any company (be it Garmin, Stryd, or Apple) creates a limited edition piece of consumer tech hardware, for a market this size. The tooling and related manufacturing costs are simply too high, especially since they went from wireless charging to micro-USB. It’s one thing to do a production run with a different color scheme, but beyond that – no way.
So this is definitely something here to stay. My guess is the limited edition part is the Zwift-colored orange tag.
What’s interesting though in all this is that you can actually upgrade from the $99 Stryd Live to the full Stryd version with all the advanced running metrics (the upgrade cost $100). It’s simply a software update. This makes total sense as an upsell for those that want to start with one thing and then dig more deeper into running metrics later on.
My only real concern is the price. $99 is about double what footpods typically cost these days. For example, Garmin is at $49 for theirs (widely available), and Milestone is at $29 for theirs (though a bit hard to source right now). While I agree that Stryd’s accuracy is solid, almost everybody up till now has also said Garmin’s footpod accuracy for years is perfectly fine and accurate too (assuming you do a simple 1-2 lap around the track calibration). On the flipside, Garmin’s footpod doesn’t have Bluetooth Smart, though Milestone does (but that lacks ANT+). So Stryd is currently unique in the dual ANT+/BLE footpod department, but I’m not certain that’s worth double the cost by itself. I think Stryd would sell a crapton of devices at $49, but still a boatload at $59 or even $69. Far more than they’ll sell now at $99 once the initial excitement and running geek interest dies down. It’d be far better positioned for retail running shops too. They’d then have volume momentum going into the spring, when undoubtedly we’ll see more competitors in the dual-ANT+/BLE space (Wahoo has long talked about just rebranding the Wahoo RPM as a footpod, since they already have the running pace/cadence code in the TICKR straps).
In any event, I ordered one on Friday, so my guess is it’ll arrive sometime this week to my US forwarding box, and then sometime next week or so to Australia. Look for my thoughts thus later in the month.
BSX Insight Discontinued:
BSX finally put a nail in the coffin this weekend of their BSX Insight device, which did lactate threshold testing. This announcement though was more of a formality than anything, since this had long been known (since last fall). What was nice though was to see BSX follow through on their discussion of open-sourcing their Connect IQ app code, which would enable the devices to keep operating once BSX shuts down its service.
That won’t address the backend service piece (so you won’t get test reports, etc… anymore), but at least you can use it for SMO2 monitoring. They’ve also promised to make one final update to the currently listed Connect IQ app on the existing Garmin app store, to enable this functionality there too.
Here’s the full e-mail sent to all owners:
February 9, 2018
We’re writing to you as a valued customer and owner of a BSXinsight device.
It’s hard to believe that the second generation of BSXinsight devices are already two years old. During that time we’ve been able to accomplish so much together. But as with all consumer electronic devices, the cost and complexity of continuing to ship and maintain a technology as it matures through its product life cycle keeps increasing. As a result, we have made the difficult decision to stop marketing and producing the BSXinsight effective as of the date of this letter. This includes the following BSXinsight models: XM, XC, XR, XM2, XC2 and XR2.
While the company will continue to maintain servers and offer email technical support for one year, the product will not be enhanced or improved in any way including adding support for new operating systems and platforms. All valid warranty claims will continue to be honored as per the manufacturer warranty agreement.
We understand that for many of you, the BSXinsight has become an integral part of your training and race preparation. BSXinsight will continue to represent a transformative technology, for the first time ever bringing lactate threshold training technology out of the lab and into your own living room.
It has been our pleasure helping you to achieve each of your own personal records. For some, those were private personal bests and others they were Olympic medals – to us each were equally thrilling.
As part of the end of life process, we have decided to release the code of our BSXinsight Garmin Connect IQ app to the open source community. This can be found at https://github.com/bsx-opensource/insight-app. Additionally, we will be publishing an updated app to the Connect IQ store with SmO2 start/stop functionality and FIT file support enabled from supported Garmin products.
While this has been a difficult decision for each team member, we view product end of life as a part of the product life cycle that drives new technology and innovation. Our team continues to be passionately focused on developing revolutionary technologies that improve lives and individual well-being. As such, the end of this chapter in our company’s story marks the beginning of a new exciting one that we hope you will join in with us.
We sincerely appreciate your support.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
The BSX Team
Note though that somewhat like the pattern we’ve seen – BSX plays a bit loose with the facts here. In reality, this wasn’t a recent decision. They sent a discontinuation letter last summer to all retailers. It’s just that they finally got around to telling consumers about it now.
Speaking of BSX, as for their LVL project (the one that BSX stopped BSX Insight for)…well…who knows. As I posted before, I’m pretty sure that project is about as dead-ended as you can get. And the company hasn’t updated their Kickstarter backers since last year either on that one. But I suppose that’s an entirely different post…
PowerTap C1 Scale-Back:
Speaking of discontinuations, we’ve got a slightly different twist on things at PowerTap. It’d been rumored recently in a variety of places that PowerTap was discontinuing their C1 chainring power meters.
But in reality, that’s not entirely true. The product line isn’t being discontinued, but rather scaled back to just PowerTap.com. PowerTap confirmed this morning this:
“The C1 will not be available in some channels after March 1st….So, we are focusing sales efforts of the C1 direct through PowerTap.com to riders who have compatible cranks. We want to be a solution for those that have the older standards and want a crank based powermeter. This will be a direct to consumer solution only, however. P1 Pedals, G3 rim and disc brake hubs, and PowerTap accessories will continue to be available through your favorite retailer.”
As has been seen lately, they are currently clearancing C1 units for $349 (with chainrings). Quite frankly, that’s a pretty awesome deal. By and large the C1 has been a pretty solid power meter, even if the sales numbers haven’t been spectacular. While I’ve seen some people with waterproofing related issues, most seem pretty happy. I suspect PowerTap on the C1 was probably dealing with some of the same waterproofing battery cap challenges that both Quarq and Stages dealt with in their early years, in that region of the bike.
The company noted the primary reason was basically compatibility:
“When we rolled out the C1, symmetrical 110 bcd cranks were more common on new bikes. Since then, nearly every drivetrain and crank manufacturer has gone to a unique or proprietary standards that are incompatible with the C1.”
And while that was definitely true, I think there were also two other aspects at play:
A) Most people don’t even realize PowerTap made a C1 chainring power meter: The vast majority of focus is on the P1 pedals and G3 hubs. Whereas if PowerTap was a company that only made the C1, then people probably would have talked about it more.
B) Power2Max and Quarq powerhouse: When you look at the first above, many people/reviews/media/whatever, seem to align to showing Quarq and Power2Max for spider-based options in that price range, and often skip out on the PowerTap C1 option. Never really sure why that is, but no doubt, that too doesn’t help much.
I don’t think pricing was to this point a big deal per se, since they were competitive with Power2Max, and usually cheaper than Quarq. Both of those being their primary competitors. However, I think as the number of power meter companies increased, the number of models that could sustain life spread thinner.
As for the P1? There’s no truth to the rumors of its discontinuation. Of course, it has had its sales evaporated by the 1-2 punch of Garmin Vector 3 and Favero Assioma. Vector 3 being more full-featured and slimmer hardware at the same price, and Favero Assioma being roughly equal in features at $250-$300 less. No matter which side your preference was, for the vast majority of buyers it doesn’t end up with a P1 unit.
Typically we see power meter companies look to make pricing shifts between January and March, it wouldn’t surprise me if PowerTap does the same. Pioneer for example actually just made one a few weeks ago, reducing $200-$300 off their top-end options.
I’ll probably do another power meter pricing-specific round-up in March or so.
Oh, and of course – the PowerTap G3 hub keeps on chugging.
With that – thanks for reading!
I just notice you say that : This new $99 footpod does away with the advanced running metrics (including power)…
on the live website they say it doesn’t do power …
STRYD LIVE METRICS : PACE, DISTANCE, CADENCE, VERTICAL OSCILLATION, GROUND TIME
STRYD METRICS : POWER, FORM POWER, LEG STIFFNESS, PACE, DISTANCE, CADENCE, VERTICAL OSCILLATION, GROUND TIME
could you rectify that ?
all the best
It does away with all the more advanced things they’re known for, as noted above.
That said, their feature/comparison original chart on their site over the weekend did NOT list Vertical Oscillation and Ground Contact time. So something was just updated in the last little bit to show those two additional metrics. Previously it was just cadence/pace/distance. Neither did their press materials that came from Zwift. Their site doesn’t specify if they’ll transmit those over the ANT+ RD profile or not, so I’ll check with them, as that’d be quite notable (and make it more appealing at that price point).
Odd. In any case, updated with their newly updated information. Thanks!
Is there a certain irony that the Stryd Live appears to compute the things needed for Garmin running power if you had a suitable watch (with a barometer and CIQ support) but were not using the HRM-Run/Tri or the RD pod.
So many question!
I can’t recall from your article on the ANT+ RD spec whether it was just a matter of the Garmin RD becoming the spec or if it was a separate development?
If they are different which does Garmin use for their Running Power IQ app?
If Stryd isn’t using the ANT+ RD spec will the Stryd Live pod work with their own IQ app/datafield to get the Live pods RD stats into the FIT file of a Garmin watch?
The ANT+ RD spec is out, so any company can use it (though, for whatever reason the public ANT+ profiles page is currently missing it, but the spec is there for members: link to thisisant.com)
For Garmin’s own app, they leverage their own specific metrics, tied to a Garmin branded strap/pod.
Note sure on the last one. I shot them over an e-mail late last night their time, and if my timezone math is right, they’re probably just walking into the office now.
Is there already a price for the Stryd upgrade?
$100 to upgrade from Stryd Live to regular Stryd (metric-wise).
I’m considering buying Power2Max NGeco FSA (490 Eur + FSA bb) but PowerTap C1 for $350 is like a half of the price!! There is the hack?
Where is a hack?
The hack is the ‘350$’ offer is for US market. As an EU resident you’ll have to pay import taxes and VAT, considering shipping it to Europe is even the option (probably it isn’t).
Unfortunately (and I understand it’s for engineering reasons), Powertap’s smallest crank is 50/36. I could then switch from a Shimano 12-30 to a SRAM PG-1070 12-32 cassette and hope that old Ultegra-6700 derailleur can handle that. Or I wait out and hope that a cleat-based version for SPD comes on the market. More generally asking… is it going to be a quiet or a more busy year in terms of new power meters entering the field?
I’d have to agree, the fact that the C1 isn’t available in the popular compact crank size weighs against it, especially when most of the other crank based power meters do support that size.
At $349 it’s definitely a steal, although the only bike I have without a power meter right now is my gravel grinder, and no way I’m losing my granny gear on that!
This: “a cleat-based version for SPD comes on the market”
Would love to have a SPD (not SPD-SL) cleat version power meter. Even if it had to forego the cleat on one side it would be okay. Whether that’s PowerTap or Garmin, who will be first to market with it and how soon? Long overdue. While the mtb market for power meters will always be small, the growing number of serious riders who’ve headed to gravel is only increasing (at least in the US).
@Garmin @PowerTap Either of you listening?
I posted in your Zwift running post that the Milestone is available on Holabirdsports.com.
However I also found that portlandrunningcompany.com is selling one for $15 with $5 shipping. Snapped that up as soon as I saw the lower price.
But the sold version there looks a bit weird/different, or?
As far as I know, the v2 pod pictured does not transmit live data
yeah afraid the v2 is no good for Zwift – see link to milestonepod.com
So I would cancel that order if you can…
Uh, not that one. This one.
Ah wait. That’s from the Holabirdsports.com website. Be sure to search for the right one.
Wonder why Stryd went USB charging on the Stryd Live. Kind of assume cheaper to make but then the cost price plus the upgrade price is same as the full Stryd. Although I had to source a generic Qi charger when my bag with my Stryd charger in it got stolen the fact it was a sealed unit made it fine for outdoor use. I kind of assume you could still use the Stryd Live outdoors as a “normal” foot pod but wonder if it is waterproof enough if say you take it through some water – perhaps due to flooding which is far from unknown for me.
Doing micro-USB at IPX7 is pretty easy for the most part. Though admittedly, less so on a footpod which comes in regular contact with dirt/etc (compared to a bike computer or even a watch). But perhaps the clip part blocks the port nicely, in which case it’d be less concerning.
You’ve probably discovered this already by now but the micro usb port is part of a clip you put on when charging. So when the Stryd Live is on your foot there’s no usb port on it.
I have a Garmin footpod and Stryd running PM and the Stryd is much more accurate on pace and distance. The Garmin works well at the calibrated pace, but varies quite a bit outside of that. Somehow the Stryd varies very little with pace. I do agree that $99 is just a bit high for that extra accuracy.
“This new $99 footpod does away with the advanced running metrics (including power), but retains the accurate pace/distance/cadence calculations they’re known for (Update: As well as vertical oscillation & ground contact time, metrics that weren’t initially listed when it launched last week).”
Does that mean that the footpod doesn’t collect those metrics, or that the software doesn’t calculate / analyze those metrics?
What a great deal on the C1 for double-sided power. I was excited until I realized my new Shimamo road cranks and older MTB cranks are incompatible. At least the G3 hub is still reliably keeping my training honest and on-track.
Interesting news about the c1 being sold direct/online only. One of those ‘sensible-in-hindsight’ things when thinking about sales channels.
I thought the P1 was still chugging on, on the sales front, albeit at lower levels. Hoping for innovation in a P2.
Yeah, it’s tricky with bike components like that because consumers (largely speaking) can’t install something like the C1 by themselves. They’d look to a bike shop to stock and install it. Obviously, 99.96% of bike shops won’t recommend a product they don’t make money on…so it’s a bit of a never ending spiral.
As for P1, once Vector 3 was announced, P1 sales evaporated. Like, overnight evaporated (somewhat fascinating from a data geek standpoint to watch). The price simply isn’t fit for the product market/competition at this point. If they adjusted price significantly, it’d (rightfully) come back in style.
Just curious, do you have a source for sales data or do you get a more “word on the street”? Also, can you say how many units they will sell a year? Over 5k?
It’s a blend of data I see from CT/Amazon purchases, as well as directly talking to manufs. The CT/Amazon purchases aren’t a perfect indicator since they’re somewhat driven by what I post about, but when all those things are even, they tend to trend incredibly well with what I hear from manufs.
So BSX is over for muscle oxygen but Humon just started shipping their sensor.
Interesting how BSX decides to update the connectIQ app now when they could have done it awhile ago
Have you used the Humon sensor? I’ve been waiting on Moxy to come down to a reasonable price – and Humon nailed the price target!!
I would LOVE to see a review of their product!
I’d like a C1, but it’s not compatible with either my road bike or my tri bike. And I’d like a 50/34.
Same, doesn’t work with my silly offset Campy cranks.
In order for BSX to take advantage of the new update (eg. enable broadcasting) you have to update the devices firmware. I haven’t been able to update my Unit as it keeps hitting an error.
Also, if Garmin nativiley supports the SMO₂ standard channel why does it require a ConnectIQ app in order to write the data to the fit fie?
Magnus, where have you received the informaiton that it needs a new firmware update?
It wasn´t mentioned in the email that was sent out and not on Github either.
Exactly, there’s was no mention in the email update, but it does mention it on the ConnectIQ page.
1. Open source!!
2. Now can start and stop the BSXinsight if it is running the latest firmware!
3. Depending on your Garmin device you can also store the MO2 data to the FIT file.
Ive been trying to update the device but no luck on any machine.
The firmware is still the “old one”. The ciq-app does nothing more, than connecting to the device and sending the bitcode to start, stop recording and then displays and writes the data to the file.
The SmO2 capable watches (935, fenix 5 Series and xt735 I’ m not sure on this one) write the data in the Fit-1-format. So you can see them not in garmin connect, sporttracks and trainingpeaks can display them.
If you use one of the above watches, it would make more sense to use the built in SmO2-feature and start/stop the bsx with your cellphone and nrf-app and use the 2/3 ciq-fields for something else.
The humon is a complete different thing. Humon gives a value that considers SmO2 and tHb to one Value and interprets this Value with their Zonesystem as trainingrecommendation.
Moxy gives you their testresult of their 5-1-5 or steptest to interpret, while BSX tries to interpret their step-test. The new thing in humon is the calibration and recommendation.
As someone who has contemplated buying the stryd just to get the improved accuracy, I might be tempted to buy this if the accuracy is as high as people claim it is. I have the polar footpod and the milestone and while they are good at the pace and terrain they are calibrated at, they aren’t so good at other paces. I’d be interested know if the stryd live is only a real-time thing or will it record data on its own. Also will it include elevation changes?
Stryd Live will record data on its own. And the data will include the elevation change. You won’t get meaningful elevation change running on treadmill, but if you use Stryd Live in the outside, you will get it.
Good to know! thanks!
I think it’s mostly marketing fluff. The quantitative difference between Stryd and others is hardly enough to justify the price tag. But people believe marketing hype all the time.
Also, why is Stryd offering an upgrade to an inferior product at the same price point. This is where I think the people of Stryd have absolutely no business sense. They love to pat themselves on the back and talk about how smart they are and then screw over the customer. Remember their first product wasn’t a footbed or clip on. The chest strap actually cut up people’s chests. They were slow to offer replacements and had to practically beg them to get you to send one…instead of just sending out replacement straps.
I never bought into the whole “power” thing so I couldn’t justify spending $200 to just get an accurate footpod. But for $99, a footpod that some people have found to be super accurate and doesn’t need calibration, that is rechargable and also is able to measure changes in elevation is of some interest to me and I could justify the $30-$40 premium over a regular bluetooth footpod.
Hi Mr T.
Disclaimer: I am with Stryd
Thanks for your comment.
“The quantitative difference between Stryd and others is hardly enough to justify the price tag.”
Stryd accurately tracks your pace and distance regardless of shoe type, road condition, treadmill type, fatigue, running form, incline, and speed. All of this happens without calibration. We put a lot of time into this and we think it is great technology. The quantitative studies are available: link to fellrnr.com Plus, there are plenty of first-hand experiences from users available online.
“Also, why is Stryd offering an upgrade to an inferior product at the same price point.”
Could you explain what you mean here?
“They were slow to offer replacements and had to practically beg them to get you to send one”
We are sorry for the pain caused by the first batch of straps. They were bad. Early mistakes guided us to do a lot of the great stuff we do today. That being said, we did send out replacement straps, for free. Customers just inputted their address and received a new strap via mail.
Angus & the Stryd Team
“Also, why is Stryd offering an upgrade to an inferior product at the same price point”
I think he is referring to the fact that the regular Stryd is $199, but that the Stryd Live is $99 but with the upgrade of $100 is also $199. But the Stryd live with upgrade is an “inferior” product since it doesn’t have wireless charging.
Doesn’t the whole idea a pace accuracy undercut the whole idea of “running with power”. When stryd first came on to the scene it seemed the whole idea of power was to eliminate the reliance on pace since pace is variable over terrain/weather/etc.
The same pace is not the same depending on the variables. Isn’t that the whole idea of power?
So why suddenly start advertising pace accuracy as it just goes back to the problems runners have had for years no matter how accurate the pace is. Are you backing out on pace.
As for your last point. My experience with Stryd was they were not proactive about the straps but reactive. In fact I was never sent a replacement strap. Not once. I ended up swapping out another strap.
Timfr is correct. You are charging the same price for a unit with less features.
Power is calculated based on pace. More accurate pace means more accurate power. Instantaneous pace on GPS device is notoriously bad and on existing footpods, doesn’t work that well if you’re running at a pace very different from what it was calibrated at. Power calculations based on improper speed measurements is not useful.
I never bought into the power thing because I know when I’m running uphill or downhill that I have to adjust my pace accordingly. The lvl doesn’t factor in wind speed or direction so to me it isn’t particularly useful. I find that the garmin’s technique of factoring in weather conditions and wind direction might be interesting, but I don’t know how that will work out in practice.
Well I did end up purchasing the Stryd Live and contrary to what the Stryd representative states above, it DOES NOT store information. All information can only be transferred in real time to a compatible watch or smart phone. There’s no way to transfer any information stored in the device to the Stryd web platform. I’m really disappointed with this device as the only two reasons I wanted to buy this was because it stored information on its own and would provide elevation data, neither of which it actually is capable of doing.
Ray, I know myself and about 7,500 Kickstarter backers would love to see you do another article updating the situation on the LVL Hydration Monitor. The whole situation is such a gong show… They claim they’ll have another update soon… might be the right time to dig into the reality of the situation after that update appears? I mean, if it appears… hard to tell with all of the undelivered promises with those jokers.
Call me cynical if you want, but… what is there to update?
The last comments by Ray basically said “it’s dead. Don’t hold your breath.”
BSX has done absolutely nothing to rebut that accusation, beyond a few fluff pieces that side-step the issue and which careful (or even rudimentary) analysis will show don’t actually say anything meaningful.
People keep asking them the same questions that haven’t received substantial answers, and they keep getting back silence.
So, in all sincerity, what is there out there to suggest that the situation might have changed, or become more apparent? (Whether for better or worse, I don’t really care. Either way – what is out there?)
I’m hoping that they’ll pull out a miracle and release the hydration meter that we were promised, all those months ago. But I’m not holding my breath for it. Anybody who genuinely thinks that BSX is making an honest effort to develop the technology, in light of all the criticism that they haven’t addressed, is – at best – hopelessly naive.
In my opinion, anyway. If anybody disagrees, please, by all means, give me chapter and verse on what’s going on that we’re not seeing…
I’m very cynical also. I’ve accepted that the pledge money is pretty much gone.
They are almost halfway between the postponement announcement and the end of summer 2018. Has what they have shown us been indicative of a product that will be shipped in the next 7 months? For me, no it isn’t.
Since the Samsung announcement, I only foresaw two possibilities. EIther the tech would work which means it would be sold to Samsung and we wouldn’t get the product or it wouldn’t work and we’d get nothing anyways. I see no possibility of us receiving the LVL device as advertised.
Ehh… I’m not quite that cynical. Samsung isn’t stupid. They’d likely look at the pledges as a commitment to BSX that BSX is honour bound to respect, and provide units to backers in due course. If the tech works, and if it can be miniaturised to the extent required, I think backers will get the product eventually. By my count, backers ‘paid’ for a total of about 9000 LVLs; for a product that would have a very broad and large market, I think the goodwill generated by treating backers with honesty and respect would be well worth it.
But those two “if”s are the burning questions. There are serious and genuine doubts over both of them, in the light of Ray’s earlier article, and none of BSX’s updates since then have done anything to quell those doubts. If anything, the vagueness and lack of transparency in responding to that article have exacerbated them.
How about just a bit more press, coverage and awareness about this shitty company (and leadership – we’re looking at you, Dustin and Nithin) – so that no one ever supports them again?
Ray, I just got my new Outside magazine and read the article on you. Now that you and Alex Hutchinson are both Outside affiliates, I understand why it’s my favorite mag.
I think subscribers get the new edition before it hits newsstands, so e-mail me if you want a copy.
-Dewey (former almost-neighbor on RdGD)
Unfortunately the UK version of the C1 is retailing for £499. I’ve emailed them to see if this will be lowered anytime soon.
They replied to say the Winter sale is US only, boooooo.
But the Wahoo RPM should change its design to something more similar to the Garmin Cadence sensor. I preferred the Garmin one because it is more portable with the industrial grade rubber instead of the zipties (cable ties) of the Wahoo one.
I don’t own a power meter or an aero wheel set. I know you like the G3 hub. What do you think about your PowerTap wheels for use in training/triathlons?
It’s a great option, but for triathletes you may want to think longer term about things a bit. Specifically because if you end up with a PowerTap wheel, but then decide to get aero wheels for races – that leaves you without power for racing. And in triathlon specifically, power while racing is incredibly important.
Of course, you could get aero wheels with a PowerTap built into it.
Has anyone gotten the BSX Connect IQ to actually record information to a FIT file? Tried with an Edge 1030 and was unsuccessful though it does show the info on screen.
Were you able to update the device’s firmware? I’ve been trying for a week without luck. I submitted a support ticket, though tbh I didnt think I’d get a response, and the response I got was to remove and reinstall the desktop app. I’ve done this on both Mac/Windows but the update fails every time at 41%.
Per the recent ConnectIQ update, it states the update is required in order to leverage the ‘new’ Start/Stop feature.
1. Open source!!
2. Now can start and stop the BSXinsight if it is running the latest firmware!
3. Depending on your Garmin device you can also store the MO2 data to the FIT file.
Ive been trying to update the device but no luck on any machine.
Didn’t think that was necessary for FIT file saving. Thought that was part of the Connect IQ App update. Will try to update and try another ride.
Firmware seems to be up to date now. I reset to factory and then updated using the Mac app. Up to 2.4.1 XC now – not sure what it was before. Will try a ride over the weekend.
Finally got my unit to update firmware…
I recorded an activity sitting at my desk and it looks like it DOES ‘start’ broadcasting but IT IS NOT displayed on GC.com the way it does when using the Moxy app.
A bit of quark, in my testing I also used the standard SMO1/TBH data fields, though the data did not display on these fields even though it was displaying in the BSX data field. However, as soon as I stopped the activity, the device would connect to my watch through the standard ant+ channels and would then display values.
It’s as if it can only have one connection (tried manually connecting via the sensor menu) as well as a lag from the time the activity is stopped for the device to actually ‘stop’ broadcasting.
I suppose it sort of works but I woudl have expected to be able to see the graphs within GC as I dont use SportsTracks and I dont see the data in TrainingPeaks.
What Garmin device are you using? Remember that it’s only some devices (presumably with enough internal memory) that save the data to the FIT. Hadn’t thought of recording an activity at my desk. Will give that a try and report back.
Nope, still nothing on Garmin Connect. We must be missing something.
I’ve tried on both a 935 as well as Fenix5. Same behavior on both watches.
I’ve tried on both a 935 as well as Fenix5. Same behavior on both watches.
Firmware 2.4.1 XX seems to be the acutal one.
There was a big discussion in the Garmin-forums about BSX and SmO2 recording.
The Fenix 5 Series and the 935 have the SmO2 channel, but record, as Roger from Moxy stated, in the V.1 of the Fitfile, while Stryd and Moxy-App record it in the V.2, which is a custom-Data-stream and so displayed in connect, while SmO2 is a native-datastream and not displayed, that is quirk from Garmin. So only the watches with native SmO2-Channel will record with the BSX-App and only Programms like Sporttracks can show the data (I think WKO can display it also, but I don’ t know it, as I don’ t use it).
I prefer the start-stop-Routie with cellphone and nrf-app, this way, I don’ t have to sacrifice a ciq-field for something that my watch (F5x) can show and record by it self.
BJRDM showed in the commets, how to start-stop bsx with nrf-app and smartphone (works on Android, IOs and windows-pc with BLE e. g. most tablets): link to dcrainmaker.com
So, long story short (personal summary), I don’ t need the BSX-CIQ-App on any watch, as I can start-stop the BSX with my Smartphone and use other ciq-apps or native watch-support to show and record the data.
Thanks for the details Chris. So by reading your comment is it your belief that the BSX ConnectIQ App is recording a V.1 stream that can only be read by Sporttracks?
Also, I have used the Moxy CIQ app before but I believe you had to start recording with the BSX app on my phone. Maybe the nrf-app on phone in combination with the Moxy CIQ app would allow us to start recording and see the data on Garmin Connect (which is the end result I am looking for).
@Norm C, I gave the BSX-CIQ-App only a short look.
What the BSX-CIQ-App records, depends on your BSX and Settings. The App is made for the older Watches like F3, that had no dedicated SmO2 channel from beginning. Normaly the App searches for the BSX’ s secondary Protocols and try’ s to pair them (Cadende Sensor for bikes and Footpod for running) and write the values in the corresponding Fit-V.1 channel.
You can watch this behavior by starting your BSX with your Smartphone and then search for for ANT-sensors or by unpairing your BSX and starting a Workout with your the BSX-datafield.
I don’ t know if the datafield is able to react to a specific Watch-model (F5 or 935) and write the data then in the correct channels, as I handle the BSX with NRF-App and the native SmO2-Field from my Watch. And analyse the data with Sporttracks.
I did another test run on both the FR935 and Fenix5 with the following configuration.
Fenix 5 – activity with BSX data field without pairing BSX as SmO2 sensor
FR935 – activity with ‘standard’ SmO2/tbH data fields with BSX paired as SmO2 sensor
The Fenix 5 enabled broadcasting of the BSX which the FR935 was then able to connect/read. Once the activities were uploaded to GC.com neither were graphed in the way that Moxy data fields are graphed.
I loaded both FIT files in Golden Cheetah and it appears that both watches recorded data in the ‘Standard’ fields.
One oddity I did notice when I look at the FR935 file in the DCAnalyzer tool, it recorded a secondary stream of both the SmO2/tbH with extremely high numbers. The values displayed during the run, as well as those recorded in the Standard fields seen in Golden Cheetah, are however corrent. Not sure why/where these were recorded.
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
@CHRIS data is graphed on GC.com when using the Moxy data field. It’s not graphed when using BSX or Standard channels.
@Magnus, that is the proof, that the BSX-App creates a new SmO2 and thb Stream in the V.1 and writes that. So the Datafield doesn ‘ t react to the Watch, it just starts a BSX and displays the Data and writes these if there is a SmO2 stream. 102% is the default (no data) value for SmO2, maybe there was a another Datafield for SmO2 open or a Bug?
The Moxy-Datafield is know to write a Fit V.2 (custom) Data-stream.
Hi, I asked Humon about details and I received below details:
Just want to clarify one quick thing- in the Muscle Ox ANT+ profile, we record SmO2 and thb data. Our Garmin datafield and app just show SmO2, but when you sync your activities with the connect IQ dashboard, you’ll get both the SmO2 and thb graphs.
Please let me know if you have any other questions!
The C1 is sort of a kluge-fest on basic design though. It basically uses the nice stiff spider that modern cranks are built with to attach a second spider that then has long spindly arms that flex more and attaches the chainrings via those. I’m sure the increased flex makes it easier to measure power accurately, but I wonder how much stiffness you give up? The hoopla on every new crank release seems to be on how much stiffer it is, and this basically takes the stiffness back to 1970’s levels. The price is enticing, but I think any mechanical engineer that looks at it and is a cyclist and is interested in performance and efficiency is going to be like “WTF?” I know I was. It’s like the Rube Goldberg machine of power meters.
What service do you use for in US as forwarding box?
US Global: link to usglobalmail.com
I would like a Bluetooth foot pod to pair with my iPhone and to my Suunto Ambit 3 peak. However, there are very few choices on the market $29-69 (Polar BT Smart, Milestone, Adidas BT Smart, and Stryd Live at $99). Arguably the best choice right now, Stryd Live, is overpriced. I might argue that all of them are overpriced, except maybe Milestone. Is this level of technology really that pricey? I don’t think it should be, but I’m no expert. We’re talking accelerometers, a chipset, and an API, right? Am I missing a major ingredient? It seems like they should all hover in the $30-40 range…
After reading you descriptions and subsequent discussion on Stryd Live, I gathered that the main difference is only the wireless charger, is this correct?
I have just ordered my Stryd Live and it is being cleared in the custom and cross my finger that I can use it to measure power of my running.
Super important difference: Stryd Live doesn’t broadcast power.
You are absolutely right that Stryde Live doesn’t produce Power ? which I did not catch it when I press the purchased button.
I have tried it a couple of times and the accuracy is really good with the treadmill.
However, IMHO, this is just an expensive foot pod, not worth buying without POWER output. Unless, you are really Zwift addict or only treadmill runners.
Are you planning to do a Running Power Meter comparison? Stryd, Garmin, Runscribe and I am sure you can add another 5 to the list which shows the need for such a test with your critical and sophisticated approach.
I started diving into it about a year ago – but it’s definitely due for something more specifically power-focused. link to dcrainmaker.com
Just got off the phone with PowerTap CS. They are no longer producing new C1s but are selling through the current stock. They have not “discontinued” the power meter and will continue to honor the warranty even if they do discontinue it and will support the C1 “for the foreseeable future”. Sounds like they plan on supporting it for a while. I hope at least 2 years as I plan on getting one SOON. If you want specifics I would ring their CS department. They were very friendly.
This would explain repeated issues seen with the PM as, if there were production issues there are also no new corrected models. But just a theory.
Ray was right about the Stryd. Current Stryd foot pods come standard with the charging dock like the Stryd Live instead of the wireless charger although the wireless charger can still be purchased as an option. I think a lot of people will be surprised/disappointed by this change since all the older reviews talked about the cool wireless charger and Stryd’s website doesn’t explicitly mention this change.