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In my case, the workouts Strava suggests are ok both in terms of running pace and biking power. Even the routes Strava selected are fine for executing those workouts. And the bike workouts even have proper distances :)
But unless they push these workouts to my Garmin or TrainingPeaks, I won’t be using the feature.
Something that makes everything even more complicated is that Strava only has 1 HR profile. If you are a triathlete you must chose tom use your running HR zones or your cycling HR zones. For serious training you need other parties like TrainingPeaks that does both.
I don’t normally do “workouts”, so this really isn’t for me. But I looked at it today after seeing your YouTube video. As you say, the route choice is weird. In my case, some are routes that I routinely do, but with a little extra out and back segment attached. (It seems in general to be very fond of out and back.) The one route that looks reasonable and that I’ve actually done before is the gravel bike ride, but I no longer do this ride on a gravel bike because the fire tower road has deteriorated in recent years, so I only use full suspension on it now. In general, it’s not paying attention to the years of rides that I’ve done and uploaded that it has available to notice my patterns. For example, it should notice I don’t do much single track, so it shouldn’t try to suggest I ride my eMTB on the most technical single track in the area. It could simply choose one of my standard routes as the suggested route for a workout.
I think you nailed two key frustrations here: the black box pacing logic and the missing Garmin sync.
It’s frustrating because the tech exists to do this right, if you’re not caught up on IPO and keeping users tied to a platform.
And yes I’m here to pitch, as I actually built a free Connect IQ app (Type to Run) that fixes this:
1. You create the run straight from the watch: pick a duration/type (e.g. 45 min Fartlek) and it generates a custom workout instantly on the device.
2. It uses Daniels/VDOT formulas based on a race time you provided, rather than guessing based on a glitchy Oura run.
3. It creates a native Garmin workout file, so you get the gauges/alerts you are used to while running.
(No routes though!)
Give it a try: link to apps.garmin.com
Staffan, I have just tried your app, it is brilliant. I was always wondering how it is possible that Garmin does not have some kind of workout library or generator (at least on fenix 6, maybe they do on newer watches). E.g. I know I want to do some vo2max intervals, I have 50min but don’t want to spend time making specific workout manually. There are daily suggested workouts but they are usually meh. Your app is executed perfectly, it’s intuitive, fast and provides really good workouts. Thank you! Ps. How it is possible that Fenix 6 allows to have only 25 workouts in its memory is beyond my comprehension…
> How it is possible that Fenix 6 allows to have only 25 workouts in its memory is beyond my comprehension…
Couldn’t agree more. Even on devices that don’t support music or maps, there’s a ton of storage for things like this.
I think Garmin has a lot of legacy code with legacy limits that might have made sense 20 years ago, and they never bothered to change some of the limits, for reasons. (They have changed *some* limits, but not all of them.)
It’s kinda like how activity FIT file recording defaulted to “smart” (instead of once per second) for many years after it ceased to make sense (DCR used to point this out all the time). Only very recently did Garmin switch to once per second, for some devices.
Wow, PK! Really appreciate the kind words. (Fingers crossed Ray gives it a try as well!)
If you have a second, a review/rating on the ConnectIQ store helps a ton to get visibility for a new app like this.
About the 25 workouts limit, it is still there even on Fenix 8 (I’m on 7s myself). Agree Will, legacy code is a likely culprit, as it makes no sense otherwise. Workout FIT files are like 4kB in size, so you could fit 8 million of them on a Fenix 8 storage, haha (not taking OS, maps etc into account obv)
I’m actually looking into an update to bypass this. The idea is to generate the workout ‘just-in-time’ when you press start and just store some meta data on the Garmin until you need it. That would solve the limit and enable some other useful real-time adjustments I have in mind.
“I’m actually looking into an update to bypass this. The idea is to generate the workout ‘just-in-time’ when you press start and just store some meta data on the Garmin until you need it. That would solve the limit and enable some other useful real-time adjustments I have in mind.”
For your workout generation process, isn’t an internet connection required? I am assuming that generation must be done on a server, as I don’t think Connect IQ apps are able to generate workout files offline (correct me if I’m wrong).
As a runner who never brings his phone, that would mean I would have to remember to generate a workout *before* I leave my house. For that matter, I usually have BT disabled on my watch unless I have a specific reason to enable it. I guess it’s not so different from having to create a workout in Connect before leaving my house, but at least those workouts are stored on the watch after syncing. With your suggested change, there would be no persistence of workouts, right?
The app sounds pretty cool tho.
You’re 100% right, Will.
If I end up going for this approach, it has to – and will – include an “offline mode” to allow pre-downloading workouts to the watch and some type of short term persistence for the ones download just in time (so you don’t lose it if you accidentally click away from it).
Let me know what you think if you try the app. And assuming it’s the same Will in all the comments, I was just out testing power targets on the track earlier. Should be available tomorrow at latest!
Haha actually there’s (at least) two Wills and the power targets / Stryd guy isn’t me. (This is the same guy who’s been replying in this thread tho.)
Sorry, I should’ve posted with a different name.
I do own and use a Stryd pod (I was gifted one by Stryd because I made a CIQ app a long time ago), but ironically I don’t really care about running with power. I just use it more as a fancy foot pod which supposedly has better pace on a treadmill than other options.
I did notice that the race prediction feature of the Stryd app is terrible. It shows best predicted efforts that I easily beat during longer training runs (even when pauses are considered).
I also don’t know any runners (fast or slow) who use or care about Stryd. (I did know one slow triathlete who used it.)
Small workaround to at least get the suggested route onto Garmin (even though the workout itself still can’t be pushed): in the Strava app, open the Instant Workout, scroll all the way to the bottom and under the map tap “Save route”. Then in the Strava web version, open that saved route, download the GPX, and upload it to Garmin Connect as a course. Not ideal, but it gets the route onto the watch until Strava adds proper device/workout export.
Would love to see the Strava app directly control a smart trainer. Doesn’t need to be a Zwift replacement, but just some simple way to directly control a smart trainer over bluetooth. Manually and loading simple workouts.
To be fair, I’d prefer them just push the file. Push it to Zwift, push it to whomever, and then let the various trainer apps do the controlling itself (heck, even push it to the Wahoo app).
Unless they used actual Zwift maps the routes, at least, wouldn’t work very well. So far as I know, only 3 Zwift worlds mirror reality (and I’ve never used the Paris map, so I’m not sure about that one). I’d much rather see the Zwift map in Strava than some real island in the South Pacific.
I’m just talking a structured ERG workout (akin to what TrainingPeaks and others push to zwift).
Besides using my Garmin, or something like Golden Cheetah, there are not easy ways to control a smart trainer without paying a monthly subscription.
That’s dumb. Need some simple app that just does manual control and loading erg workouts.
I’ve been told by an ex-employee that none of the Product Owners are athletes and they’re all engineers! This would explain the poorly structured workouts, but doesn’t explain the poorly delivered product! Go home Strava, you’re drunk!
It feels like they treated the AI as the sole subject matter expert, rather than one tool of many. Without proper validation logic and constraints, the risk of ”guessing” and ending up with slop is just too high.
I’ve worked as a Product Manager for 10+ years in complex areas, relying heavily on experts. Not being an athlete/expert yourself shouldn’t necessarily stop them from building a great product (which I think they still do to a large extent!)
> I’ve been told by an ex-employee that none of the Product Owners are athletes and they’re all engineers!
Kind of interesting to hear. 10 years ago, Strava had a page with bios for what seemed like *all* of their employees (including engineers and support people), and every single one was a runner or cyclist, based on the pic and the blurb about their favourite running route or whatever. I used to think it was so cool and it was one of the reasons I kinda fantasized working there, as a guy who had just gotten into running. It looked a place full of cool people who actually use the product they work on.
Idk if things changed since then. (The employee bio page is gone for sure.)
I wouldn’t describe Garmin/Strava users (including myself) as athletes tho, but I get what you mean. (I know Garmin and Strava themselves love to flatter their users by calling them “athletes”.)
I wouldn’t describe *most Garmin/Strava users (including myself) as athletes tho
Or maybe you meant literal athletes (as in elites)?
That would be kinda interesting for sure, but real athletes are surely a tiny fraction of Garmin and Strava’s userbase.
Spending 1h30m at 200W and only riding 6.8km seems like a hard workout to me (especially on your brake pads).
Maybe you have some trainer rides in Strava with wonky distance?
I’m surprised the workout doesn’t distinguish between indoor/outdoor rides. Outside, I live by many miles of stoplights, so outdoor rides are a completely different type of workout for me.
It’s more specifically that it just is creating very short routes for these.
Ultimately, it doesn’t distinguish between indoor and outdoor rides, for the recommendations. All of them that I’ve seen are assumed as outdoor.
That said, Strava literally created a category called ‘Virtual Ride’, and any indoor ride wouldn’t have GPS data, so would be easily ignored.
Except for Zwift, and I assume Rouvy and the others provide phony GPS tracks. But they’re still marked virtual, so the tracks should be easy to ignore. I’ve often wondered why they produce phony tracks in the first place. It doesn’t add anything useful.
> I’ve often wondered why they produce phony tracks in the first place. It doesn’t add anything useful.
I’m not a cyclist, but maybe it’s so they can provide the elevation data that goes with the track, so you can see how you did on those tough hills?
I also saw this explanation (which might be the real reason):
link to reddit.com
> When Zwift first started, Strava requires actual GPS coordinates to allow an activity to be uploaded. In order to be sure they wouldn’t overlap with any real segments or coordinates that people would actually use they chose a small uninhabited island that no one could actually ride on.
“I’ve often wondered why they produce phony tracks in the first place. It doesn’t add anything useful.”
The two core reasons:
1) Way-back-when, the idea for apps (specifically back-then Rouvy and FulGaz) was that you’d have real segments and virtual segments for real-world places. Thus, allowing/having both upload, but with a virtual flag from the app, to not mess up the real-world leaderboard.
2) Likewise, for Zwift, there are virtual Strava Segments for the most popular climbs/etc in Zwift. These are somewhat curated by Zwift/Strava/Zwift Insider. Without a map (even a fake map in the middle of the Pacific Ocean), there’s no way to do this.
Now, I’ve long-argued it’s silly that for that random Pacific Ocean patch there isn’t a Zwift map just superimposed below the ride. Always been a strange omission to me, and even something that both companies have talked about for probably a decade now.
Yeah, if Strava, GC, etc. just showed Zwift maps for Zwift rides, that’d make things much better. Yorkshire, Richmond, Innsbruck and I assume Paris work OK with real maps, but the rest don’t.
You’re probably well aware, but for eveyone else, the VeloViewer dev has added the Zwift layers on his map page. Watopia, London, random Scottish island (not accurate) He was even open to adding the GTAV map to accomodate link to gtbikev.com
If you’re spending £60 (or not on Strava), defo spend £10 on VeloViewer.
Mine recommends ‘endurance’, ‘base’, ‘steady’ and ‘recovery’ rides up the biggest, steepest hills nearby. That’s AI slop for you.
In my case, the « maintain » programme was reasonable. The cycling a bit easy and the swimming a bit more challenging than I am used to but overall it was OK. Some of the suggested running routes were a bit too hilly to maintain the suggested pace but I guess that’s linked to Strava’s insistence to start from home. My home street is very steep.
The instructions are indeed a bit wonky, and it looks like Strava confused seconds with meters in one workout!
I am
Also unsure about the practicality of following a route and a workout at the same time on my watch. I know it is supposed to work (Fenix) but I never tried it and the instructions did not convince me it would be that practical.
The issue you raise with run pacing targets highlights the need for run power targets. But most runners, unlike cyclists, can’t let go of pace.
I’m just starting to explore running with power targets (working on adding support to my app right now).
Do you trust the native readings straight from Garmin during training (I’m on Fenix 7s) or would you say that a Stryd pod is required for it to be useable?
Runners typically don’t do their quality workouts on hills, so pace is far, far more useful. If I tell an athlete to run 400 meter repeats in 72 seconds, and they start at 70, that’s a massive difference. You cannot reliably or accurately distinguish between those two laps with a running power meter. Heck, even a different pair of shoes can produce numbers that are 30 watts apart, and it’s not because different shoes are more efficient. I’ve tested it against oxygen consumption and blood lactate levels.
I’m not hating on Stryd. I’ve used three generations of their product, and I really like it for controlling effort on longer, hilly runs. It’s just not a substitute for a 400 meter track and a stopwatch, which remains the tool of choice for runners all the way up to the highest levels of the sport. Elites aren’t averse to change; they’re willing to adopt anything that works. The reason they haven’t adopted running power is that it isn’t better than what they already have.
I’ve used Stryd for the past 7-8yrs, so only know that world.
I’ve read that Apple and Coros give similar power averages, but are less responsive. I’d guess that Apple/Coros run power is good enough for training purposes.
the wearable companies are in a doom loop, they’ve lost sight of how to expand the market, instead, making what’s already out there ever more inaccesible to a new audience by chasing the dedicated/semi-pro current user base
Cycling only here. The routes it’s giving me are convenient and fine rides, but not at all suitable for the specified workouts. Too much steep up and down.
I feel less worried about AI replacing me at work after this. Workout ‘levels’ seemed fine from my usual weekly hard sessions (so I think that one spurious workout you had did break the formulas for you), but the routes aren’t great at all. One is a fast ride that it’s routed through a hilly gravel trail, but the bigger thing is that it has all the run/rides starting from my house. Yet there are almost no workouts I have in strava over the last 14 years I’ve done from there. Really, I always run from work or on a weekend from one of three ‘run start locations’. I understand why it’s coded that way, but highlights this is coded and very much the A in the AI as opposed the ‘I’ bit.
Although perhaps this is how Strava is finally going to combat these Strava dopers that cheat segments – physically punish them when they upload dodgy FIT files like @ray ;-) What happened to that http://www.dopemystrava or juicemyride site?
For me as an athlete I am not looking forward to stravas plans going public and becoming a public limited company.
I mean, I am a paying user for 13 years and I don’t want to give my money to some investors. They are usually rich enough. I want to give my money to strava and their employees. To pay them for their work. I don’t want to support rich people to become even more rich.
The workout suggestions are just crap and completely useless for me as an athlete. A complete waste of bandwidth and calculating power.
Strava has always been owned by investors who are already rich enough. They have never been a bootstrapped company. Going public does change the relationship they have with investors, but it changes little about the nature of investors.
Where is this located? I don’t know if this option is available on the iPhone app or on the website (EUROPE).
It’s directly at the top of the app, on the main/first page, while logged in. I’m on an iPhone in Europe. It’s rolled out globally, to all subscribers.
I am a Strava subscriber but at the top I only see PROGRESS/ACTIVITES
Never showed for me in the Android app. And now my subscription has expired two days ago (I canceled it after Strava’s fiasco last year), so I guess I will not get to try this.
While clearly still very flawed it does appear to be significantly better than the Strave Athlete Intelligence, which described my interval sprint workout from Garmin as a “steady run at endurance pace).
I only see PROGRESS/ACTIVITES
Sounds like the wrong page. If it looks the same as the Android app, tap Home at the bottom left, then above the list of people’s activities is a band you can swipe sideways, with Instant Workouts at the far left, along with Your Weekly Snapshot, Goals, and Your streak.
I checked that earlier too. I only have three dots. STREAK/GOLAS/YW SNAPSHOT
Definitely not shown in my Strava ios app. I contacted the Strava customer service last week about it. Here is their response:
“We are still in the process of testing this feature with a planned rollout to all users in the coming weeks. Please keep an eye on your app for when you gain access, and thanks for your patience.”
Surprise: even though Strava claims the new feature was rolled out to everyone, it apparently isn’t.
So In contacted Strava customer support again yesterday. I asked whether the instant workout feature did roll out internationally and why I still haven’t got it. Here is their hilarious answer from today:
“Happy holidays and thank you for your message. Members of our team are spending some well-deserved time off celebrating the holidays. You may notice longer wait times over the next few weeks. Thanks for your patience and please be sure to check out our Help Center for additional help: support.strava.com.”
Well, which holidays do they mean? Happy IPO days? It’s end of January – not December nor February. Strava never ceases to amaze.
At my work they introduced these ridiculous HFR (Human Form Recognition) systems on all excavators. They shouted ‘move away’ on the outside and ‘pedestrian detected’ on the inside and the driver would have to listen to both. It would say it for fences, pedestrian barriers, trees, other machines. It was worse than useless.
How is this relevant?
When we complained about it to the Health and Safety officer they assured us it was improving through AI and machine learning.
I can imagine this being Strava’s response.
Not really been looking at thèse for the last couple of weeks, after quickly concluding the same as everyone else that the route planning is terrible for ride and run…
But the strength training stuff doesn’t look too bad…
In the different sections it’s proposing a strength workout with weights, a core workout and an easy full body workout. Exercises, reps and sets seem quite well aligned with what I typically do in a week.
Has anyone noticed how these change each week? Any variety or always the same?
Oh, and don’t click the “let’s go”button… It launches ride recording and you hide all the instructions!
Send to watch now live… half-baked, to… edible?
As of today – almost a month after it went live – instant workout is still not available to me. No updates from customer service. According to them it’s a “phased rollout”. Yet, not a single public announcement by Strava hints at a phased rollout. Nothing in the faqs either.
I didn’t renew my subscription, so a bit curious about what is off with the watch sync?