Strava’s multifaceted legal (and social media) attack on Garmin was short-lived. Just 21 days after filing the original patent infringement case, alongside a Reddit post from their executive team attacking Garmin, the company has decided to dismiss the case against Garmin.
Court filings indicate that earlier today (Tuesday, Oct 21st), Strava filed paperwork to voluntarily dismiss the case entirely. The case, which involved two patent infringements (concerning heat map routing pieces and Strava Live Segments), had requested that the court halt the sales of offending Garmin products (effectively all wearable and bike computers).
The filing today by Strava is incredibly brief, just a single line, stating:
“Pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(1)(A)(i), Plaintiff Strava, Inc., by and through its undersigned counsel, voluntarily dismisses the above-captioned action, without prejudice. “
In looking at the case history, there were no filings/responses by Garmin over the 21 days, except for today, when Garmin formally listed their attorneys of record on the case, tied to the then dismissal of the case. Said differently, everything basically happened behind the scenes.
The Details:
The case was baffling to many in the industry, both from a technical and legal standpoint. From a technical standpoint, it didn’t appear to hold very much water, especially on the heat map side. And on the segments side, it was seen as a potentially risky way for Strava to get their patents invalidated.
But more critically, the case brought enormous risks for Strava. Garmin is Strava’s most important partner and the single biggest 3rd-party source of customer revenue (meaning Garmin customers are the most significant slice of paid Strava subscriptions). Further, Garmin’s data (paid subscriber or otherwise) fuels massive portions of Strava’s platform from a route standpoint. If Garmin were to shut off that connection, it would almost immediately spell the end of Strava (in astonishingly quick succession).
There’s much speculation about the reason Strava decided to sue Garmin, with some speculating it was due to Strava’s upcoming IPO (slated for 2026), and trying to assert patent rights, demonstrating they have an intellectual property library to generate revenue from. The problem was that they (bafflingly) chose their single biggest and closest historical partner to test this theory, and then selected questionable patents, on top of all that, and did it in the riskiest way possible.
But Strava somehow ignored the fact that Garmin almost never loses patent battles. It’s actually rather astonishing how well Garmin has defended against patent infringement claims over the last 10-15 years. Further, in this case, Garmin has a massive patent library of its own (dwarfing Strava’s roughly 20 patents), from which to counter-sue. It’s almost certain that Strava would have infringed somewhere there, even if entirely accidentally.
However, beyond all that, Strava miscalculated on how much, as one insider put it, “Garmin isn’t going to blink”. Especially in light of Suunto filing a patent infringement case against Garmin roughly a week prior (that case is much different than Strava’s, and seems to be very much focused on extracting money). Specifically, had Garmin decided to settle, it would send a message that it was open season. But by effectively requiring Strava to file this case as a voluntary dismissal, it essentially tells the rest of the legal world that Garmin came back to the table with Strava and essentially said: ‘We’re now going to outline how we will systematically and legally disembody you in the most painful way possible, as a company, unless you drop this lawsuit’.
What Happens Next:
This is where things get interesting. To begin, from a partnership standpoint, Strava entirely effed itself here. They had the closest possible relationship with Garmin for the better part of 15 years. And they not just burned that bridge, but the entire city around it. We’ve already seen Garmin announce new integrations with Komoot (a Strava competitor) over the past two weeks.
Next, there’s the executive team at Strava. To say they ‘hosed up’ would be the understatement of the year here. While some speculate the plan was always to dismiss, and use it as marketing for the IPO, I don’t buy that. Because while it drew attention to the IPO, it also drew attention to the incredible risks (and now repercussions) of this move. At the end of the day, Strava killed their most important relationship, while driving that partner to their competitors. And that ignores the angry customers (the people actually paying Strava). The only signal this sent was that Strava’s management team is unable to manage this business into the future, let alone a massive IPO.
As to how the relationship between Garmin & Strava goes forward? Who knows. Time does heal most things, but one has to remember that most employees at Garmin are lifers. Literally, the people at Garmin in the executive teams (and down to the partnership teams) have literally been there since before Strava existed, working their way up the chain. They know every bit of history, and certainly don’t forget.
Whether or not Strava can learn from history? That’s a bigger question.
With that, thanks for reading!
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Surprise…. “voluntarily” aka “just realized that it is stupid and we will loose”….
Strava is just… entertaining.
Hi DC,
thanks again for the update and the insight. And a kind hint, that in one paragraph you migut have mixed up Strava and Garmin.
Cheers
Joey
I’d love to have been there just to see the colour drain from Strava’s legal team as their utter destruction was painted in excruciating detail. This was a clown show move and may have doomed their company…even though it’s a company that almost nobody would likely miss very much. I, for one, am stoked by the closer ties to Komoot. Maybe they’ll even address indoor rowing properly (a man can dream).
It’s times like these companies find out who the yes-people are in their executive because anyone in legal, marketing, technical or partner relationships who didn’t strongly advise against the original suit is either very bad at their job or total sycophants…
I agree about the clown show and the total mess of this, I disagree that “nobody would likely miss” Strava if it went away. I’m in the DC Metro area and a large portion of my cycling and running friends are addicted to Strava segments and the tit-for-tat that goes along with it. If Komoot or a competitor could come up with something as addictive in the “passive competition” arena then Strava would face a more existential crisis. But I don’t see Strava going anywhere as most of my paying friends just think “meh” to this whole thing
Fair enough. I live in a rather more chilled country, but as a former NoVA resident I understand the vibe.
Strava has over 150 million users. Komoot is, on the other hand, being stripped for parts, having laid off 80% of its staff after its recent acquisition.
Strava is often poorly managed, but were it to disappear, it certainly would be a loss to the endurance sports communities and certainly be missed.
How many of these 160 million users are paid subscribers, though?
And despite the initial mixed indications, it appears now that Bending Spoons is actually really investing in Komoot – staff have been transferred from HQ/other BS portfolio companies, investments in the technology backend, expanded cooperation with Garmin, partnerships/IP acquisitions for maps, etc.
Strava derive a significant amount of value from their free subscribers as well. As a platform, their value proposition to users is directly proportional to the size of the social network and data provided to them about routes, activities, devices, etc. This is the reason they’ve made the free subscription available and largely un-hobbled. You put everything behind a paywall and all of a sudden you’re down to, what, 10% of your previous user-base, and 10% of the data that is the fuel that drives your platform.
This whole case made me cancel my Strava subscription and I don’t thing I’ll be going back any time soon.
I was the same, cancelled my subscription, I am not about to support frivolous law suites.
Likewise – I cancelled premium, and stopped my Garmin and Apple Watch from uploading. Downloaded all my data and I’m debating just binning the whole thing.
I’m tempted.
I like one app to collect all my disparate activities and keep track of my friends activities. What would be an alternative way to do that?
Me too. Been a paid member for well over ten years. All this noise just made me reassess why i have it.
A few posts Ive then seen about how much better Komoot is for route planning added fuel to the fire.
The final straw was an email from Strava asking me to vote out of ten on how much I’d recommend Strava to a friend. Erm actually…
Now cancelled
Garmin Connect? I
Same here, annual Strava subscription cancelled effective end of Oct. I had been on the fence after some of their earlier API drama … and this one was just the last straw.
Intervals.icu is a great place to collate your activities from across various devices and sports. Although geared toward structured training (as the name suggests), it works great as a centralised repository. It’s free (but well worth supporting – it’s an amazing platform).
Strava just Found Out that it’s not a good idea to antagonise your primary source of data.
All Garmin has to do now is invest heavily in making its Connect app more social-focused and Strava will die a slow death.
That would mean non-Garmin customers being able to sync their data *from other watches* to Garmin Connect, and I don’t see that happening at all.
Garmin can try all they want, they already did over the years, with groups, connections, segments, news feed. It does not matter how much they improve, they will never manage because they are a closed platform for their own devices. A social platform needs broad availability.
No chance of Garmin making any of its software or UIs appealing or easy to use, as that would be counter to everything they’ve done before.
“No chance of Garmin making any of its software or UIs appealing or easy to use, as that would be counter to everything they’ve done before.”
made me laugh.. the Garmin UIs are always comically bad. I also have a Garmin sonar (fish finder) and it’s just as bad as everything else. I had a Garmin GPS for a while, threw it away with a sigh of relief when OnX and phone GPS became available.
Garmin connect obviously has an API (otherwise how do my Zwift rides get there?) if they open up to other devices and add some social aspect they could destroy Strava in a matter of a few months.
I have to disagree with you there.
Garmin UIs are some of the best, just like a lot of Microsoft UIs. You just have different criteria for success.
As a user, you want the product to be pleasant and easy to use. You want to achieve the tasks you set out to.
As a developer, Garmin (like Microsoft) value extensibility. They want to rapidly add features and componentise so they can upgrade parts individually.
It’s a trade off, and Garmin didn’t choose users in their success criteria, it’s why their platform will never ‘win’ and I don’t think they care because they’re a hardware company. If Garmin ever get this right for users I promise a subscription will follow immediately.
I became a paying customer to Strava many years ago to support the Live Tracking safety feature. I run with a Garmin device. This legal stoush was the straw that saw me cancel my recurring Strava subscription.
But why? Garmin has its own Live Track, available on practically any device with BT connectivity to the app…. Why did you bother with Strava??
And the Garmin live track is free where the Strava live track was put behind a subscription paywall.
Because Garmin’s Live Track used to be a horrible mess until a couple years ago.
The Strava beacon hasn’t been behind the paywall for quite some time. I couldn’t tell you when I cancelled my Strava subs, but I’ve been using the beacon for at least the last two years for free.
I imagine the Garmin lawyers were like Beth from Yellowstone in the first episode when she outlines to a business man how she is going to destroy his company. Would’ve loved to see that. Really hope Garmin now take their ball home and leave Strava hanging.
That is a visual picture. One lone Garmin attorney walks into the room, facing a wall of Strava people. Talks for 20 minutes and walks out.
We know it wasn’t like that, but it would be beyond cool if it was.
Garmin sent the intern…
> To begin, at a partnership standpoint, Strava entirely effed itself here. They had the closest possible relationship with Strava, for the better part of 15 years.
Apparently “with Garmin”?
“This is where things get infesting.” = interesting?
I´m not a native speaker, but infesting seems… wrong here.
But on-topic: I dropped my paid Strava subscription years ago… was a good decision
Yeah, and the next sentence has also 2x Strava in it, when the 2nd should be Garmin. Ray is testing if we really read the article ☺
I think I was actually testing writing an article at midnight while jetlagged 9hrs behind my usual timezone on 3.5 hours sleep.
“Voluntarily” ☺ Sure.
Anyway – I deleted my account.
Did you add the picture of the Garmin headquarter twice on purpose?
link to knowyourmeme.com
I was trying to spot a difference in the two, like a “before / afterward” with Strava stuck in a window behind bars or something in the second picture. :-)
“They had the closest possible relationship with Strava, for the better part of 15 years”
Surely you meant Garmin here?
Strava’s executive team are a bunch of fools. As a Garmin Fenix user, I was shocked to see the lawsuit filed. It did nothing more to infuriate me. I’m not a paid Strava subscriber nor will I ever be. Most of my Strava data is generated by my watch. The rest of it is derived from Peloton. I only sync with Strava for the social and educational aspects– meaning I review other users outdoor activity as inspiration for new outdoor rides. That’s it. Heatmaps and segments are great for route building and competition, but these features, while available in Garmin, are not why I’m a user. I hope Strava’s IPO flops. Karma is a b**ch.
I take it as meaning ‘life goes on as usual at garmin’!
Any idea what’s happening with the Suunto case?
It’s been on a burner. Not entirely back burner, not entirely side burner, just a different burner. I think the Polar/Whoop case is more interesting, and been digging into that with lots of people. Almost set there having all my ducks in a row.
Well, this is certainly an anticlimactic ending.
I can’t really see how as an executive team ever thought this was a good idea if it was aimed to push the IP portfolio. If they did push it I would question the viability of the executive team if I was looking at investing in the IPO. The other option is the Executive team weren’t aware what the lawyers were doing and again who is in control of the company? Seems rather amateur. Would it not be a win-win for Garmin if they bought Strava? It can’t be that valuable? They would end up with all the paid subscriptions they’ve been looking to gain.
They have definitely greatly reduced the amount of money an IPO would raise because of this, if it’s even still viable. Any investor would look at what Strava’s management has just done and add it to the risk column, probably in block capitals.
Strava, the gift that keeps on giving
In the meantime, Strava has lost many users.
To be fair, I doubt that… It’s not like they broke something (again), it was just minor news on a stupid move, nobody got actually hurt…
I actually agree. I don’t think they lost many users here. They stood to lose many if they didn’t sort things out by Nov 1st, but I think that largely speaking, people who were angry at Strava already left.
Most people won’t leave Strava without a viable alternative. All of my workout data exists in only two places – Strava and TrainingPeaks. The primary data exists at Polar, Coros, Garmin, Zwift, Suunto and TomTom, all of them walled gardens.
I’m never going to use Strava for analysis and planning, and I’m never going to use TrainingPeaks for the social aspects with my clubmates. I’m paying for TrainingPeaks and I’m not paying for Strava. Unless something else comes along where I can see my aggregated workout data and everyone else’s and interact with them about their training, I’m not leaving. However, it’s not a big part of my athletic life, they’re never getting my money, and if Strava went belly up, I wouldn’t be too bothered about it.
This one needs a major proof read. That aside, although Strava have clearly got this completely wrong, Garmin need a bit of attention. They are forcing users in to their ecosystem and it’s not the ‘open standards’ Garmin of old. They seem immune from criticism even though they are making life very difficult for a lot of 3rd parties and users that don’t want Garmin ‘everything’.
Hi,
What a show. I believe you had a reference error in the sentence: They had the closest possible relationship with Strava, for the better part of 15 years. -> probably should be Garmin?
To me the big question is that how on Earth did Strava end up in this situation? No sensitivity analysis what so ever? In which scenario this would have landed well for them?
I drew my own conclusions and cancelled my subscription when Strava had their API gate and seems like it was the right call.
To begin, at a partnership standpoint, Strava entirely effed itself here. They had the closest possible relationship with Strava, for the better part of 15 years. < Should that second Strava be Garmin?
I think Strava made the right decision to drop the lawsuit against Garmin. It seemed like a short-sighted move that could have hurt their reputation more than anything else. Companies should focus on innovation rather than legal battles. What are your thoughts on the future of their competition?
This really is a hilarious self-own that can’t be overstated.
“This is where things get infesting. To begin, at a partnership standpoint, Strava entirely effed itself here. They had the closest possible relationship with Strava, for the better part of 15 years”
May want to proof that copy a bit.
Entirely surprising – in fairness to Strava, not only did they signal in broad terms that management aren’t fit to manage the business, they also made it very clear that management have zero understanding of their customers, competitors and Strava’s place in the sports tech ecosystem – I say this for several reasons:
1. As you say – most Strava customers are Garmin customers first – and no-one is throwing away a $2000 of hardware to stay on Strava.
2. Strava isn’t competing with Garmin heatmaps or segments. As long as everyone on Garmin can still put their data on Strava and see their Strava segments, no-one is looking at a Garmin segment – I literally don’t think I have seen them referenced anywhere accept on this website and Garmin’s website – I have been with Garmin forever and I wouldn’t know where to find them! The only way Garmin segments are ever going to become a thing is it Strava does something stupid, like you know, shutting off Garmin.
3. As you emphasised on the podcast, they showed an incredible degree of cognitive dissonance/arrogance with the “its customer not Garmin data” vs “its Strava data” – your customers aren’t idiots, don’t treat them that way.
I can only assume that the people responsible for the decision don’t use the products and aren’t active in the space – terrible sign, can’t imagine anyone sensible will invest in Strava – maybe I should short it if it does IPO.
I’ve kept my Strava subscription, but only because it runs until July 2026. I use Garmin watch and Edge. I’ve downloaded Komoot and will upload activities t that & Strava to see how they compare. First glance Komoot doesn’t do any of the fitness stuff that Strava does, and it’s route planning is woeful, so don’t’ see it as a direct competitor for now.
Even if you cancel the subscription, the Premium service will continue to run until the end of the contract period. I did cancel mine and will still have Strava Premium until early next year.
Incidentally, I did the same last year over the API thing, but re-subscribed when offered a signficant discount (something like 1/2 or 2/3 off). Let’s see whether Strava will lure me back again…
I not using Garmin devices (Wahoo for me) but this upsets me anyway by demonstrating the sheer incompetence of Strava management team.
I already cancelled my subscription last year after their infuriating API decision. I kept using it as free tier though, just for the social aspect. It’s clear I need to close my account entirely.
Stop your website from refreshing ads while trying to read an article. The page keeps moving away from the paragraph trying to read. Frustrating. I didn’t event bother to finish reading the article it happened so frequently.
Seconded!
This!
Hmm, that definitely shouldn’t be happening, which browser/platform/country?
Same here. Safari. iOS.
Same here. Safari. iOS.
Thanks, I’ll circle back with the ad partner and see what’s up.
And sorry, which country? (Most times we have ad issues like this, it’s related to a specific country, for reasons I don’t fully understand, but they do, which I suppose is all that matters).
From the US, only using Safari IOS from my phone. It does not happen on my iPad.
Also in the UK. I read the site about once every two weeks and I’ve not observed this before today, so it seems quite new.
On iOS and safari in UK, that is
Same issue. iOS, safari, US. Thanks for looking into it, Ray. I love the content enough to keep reading anyway, but it does make me feel a bit crazy. 🤪
Garmin’s response? “I don’t think about you at all.” 😂
I cancelled my premium Strava membership largely due to this lawsuit, but also as the upcoming IPO would likely lead to further en$hitification of Strava.
However I spin it, it just doesn’t make sense… Shooting yourself in the foot seems like a walk in the park compared to this (my english isnt’ good enough to know whether that was a pun or not…?). I guess we can speculate however we want, but in the end it was either an extreme case of gross incompetence paired with an even greater Napoleon-Complex (more modern: a DJT-Complex) or… well, no, nothing else comes to mind. It was just stupid. I mean, they couldn’t really have thought, that Garmin would even so much as blink at this? (so many Memes coming to mind right now) Well, ok, maybe they did blink. But more in disbelief, like when a 6 foot martial arts master gets “attacked” by a weaponless 16 yo, 5.5 foot skinny nerd with no muscle mass and skill to speak of (“This a joke…? You serious? Or maybe just suicidal?”). Or is there a really an incredibly geniuos and devious master-plan worthy of Dr. No behind all this? I mean, NOONE can be THAT stupid, right…? There must be a “plan”, right…? Or are they just making this up as they go? I mean, I’m used to not try and figure out stupid behaviour, but this…? It just tickles my inner Monk, wanting to figure out which neural pathways in whose brain started to suddenly decide to go full retard.
And what will happen from here on? Will Strava go for Komoot, Ride with GPS, someone else? Reading this post, it sounds like the natural conclusion. But as it sounds, Komoot will get closer to Garmin (another Rabbit Hole I won’t dare venture in, since they got acquired by Bending Spoons). Btw, is this some move from Komoot because a) Garmin is probably miffed at Strava right now and and what better time? and/or b) they want some “backing” before Strava makes a move towards them (though, how that would help them -Komoot-, I don’t know)?
And what if Strava does go against them? Going after Ride with GPS? That will probably cost Strava even more sympathy points. Going after Komoot? I dunno. Before the aquisition, it sure as hell would have cost them sympathy points, now, not so sure.
I’m just sooo confused… Glad I cancelled my membership 3 years ago. Not so happy with Garmin recently, but Strava really knows how to antagonize themselves over and over again.
Looks like Strava learned the hard way that suing your biggest hardware partner — Garmin — might be less about legal wins and more about burning bridges. Smart move to pull back, but this will sting their credibility. 🤔
Zwift could probably have told them that getting into fights with your hardware partners is a dumb idea!
I suppose at least Strava ended their fight faster than Wahoo/Zwift (remember that Wahoo sued Zwift, not Zwift suing Wahoo).
I hope for Strava’s sake, Garmin doesn’t go ahead with their own lawsuit. Sometimes the bear doesn’t wake up when you poke it but sometimes it does.
Exactly, “never poke a sleeping bear”.
Before I retired I was corporate lawyer for 30+ years — albeit in M&A not intellectual property — and I’ve never seen a lawsuit that was so badly misadvised. I can only think that Strava management insisted on filing it against the advice of their outside counsel. Like Ray, I don’t buy the argument that it was in some way linked to the prospect of an IPO. Markets and the investors that create them want certainty, and there is nothing more uncertain than the outcome of litigation, especially when it potentially puts the validity of some of their patent portfolio at risk and thus risks the company’s IPO valuation.
This is quite literally the logical conclusion to Strava’s stupid escapade in suing Garmin. To say that Strava Fu$&ed around and found out is such an understatement!
Like others have already mentioned, they lost thousands if not more users due to this shanagin, these are users/$$ that they likely won’t ever get back..
They brought destruction on themselves….
May Strava continue to be ruined by INFLUENCERS and may Garmin continue to grow their platform for athletes.
I don’t think anyone at Strava expected the thing to blow up in their face like that. Especially the public backlash / ridicule they got in response to their Reddit post. I doubt they thought the majority of users would gather behind them but seeing that close to 100% of people would side with Garmin must hurt.
Regarding their IPO, they might have missed the window. Not only will the market be way tougher next year (probably after February) but now even non-industry insiders know that Garmin could just kill that business if they decided to do that.
This is going to be a business school case study – how NOT to operate. IF they won, they would have lost their largest source of data input & therefore the usefulness for many of their subscribers. They are probably better off folding than if they has somehow managed to win
The only thing I use Strava for that I care about is finding routes when I travel quickly. it is pretty good at that. If there is another solution there that works as quickly, I’d delete Strava without looking back.
I am quite happy with the routes I find in connect or the web application. When traveling there is usually an attractive running or cycling route nearby. Creating a new route from scratch using heat maps usually also leads to the desired outcome. Thus, I don’t need Strava. But each to their own. Cheers!
READ MY LIPS
Strava wanted Garmin to acquire them or at least to be a cornerstone/anchor imvestor if an IPO happens.
And I do not exclude that the latter will happen as part of their agreement made in the shadow.
Strava may have wanted that for years, but Garmin never did.
I talked extensively to Garmin about it over the last 10+ years. And the answer was always a variant of the same: It just didn’t make sense.
Garmin got everything they wanted from the relationship, for free, without any of the baggage of owning Strava. If they bought Strava, Garmin was self-aware enough to know it would hurt Strava, since it would have at last the perception that it was a Garmin-only platform (even if that was never true).
“If they bought Strava, Garmin was self-aware enough to know it would hurt Strava, since it would have at last the perception that it was a Garmin-only platform (even if that was never true).”
The only time I talked to Garmin was when I had a faulty watch and begged for a RMA. :-) So I cannot have superior piece of info than yours.
But I still consider Strava as something like ANT+. It is ours, but you can use it with some condition. And it takes some time to build up a platform which is widespread and popular enough to call it as a true alternative of Strava. Until then Garmin could finetune the situation in a way which is good for everybody, but the best is for themselves.
To be honest it is pretty strange to me that during your talks with them nobody popped up with that sort of strategy I described.
I can be wrong, but I guess there are much much more people who thinks in a way whether they need a Strava account at all or not Strava and not anything similar, then the number of people who are pondering on having a Strava acoount or an account at a similar sort of provider.
But I heard what you said.
How they dismissed the lawsuit may have nothing to do with whose patents are better or worse, and the speed at which it occurred meant that no meaningful discovery was involved. It may be that Garmin decided not to pursue the features that bothered Strava; it may mean that Garmin didn’t relish fighting two battles at the same time, which could both entangle them for years and align Strava and Sunto. The process reveals nothing, and having both sued people and been sued by people for Patent infringement, and having developed about 110 patents, I don’t see how you reached your conclusions. Additionally, the “Heat Map” patent, “Generating user preference activity maps,” has some interesting subtleties in the claims that shouldn’t be overlooked. It’s more than Heatmaps. I don’t know why Strava sued Garmin, why they withdrew, and I’m unsure who blinked or whether there was a settlement of any kind. My point is that based on publicly available knowledge, or even “experts” on the patents you don’t know either and we may never know.
Strava execs now quoting Joe Exotic – “We are never going to financially recover from this”… hahah What a joke.
Any thoughts on Whoop versus Polar lawsuit
Check out his Fit File podcast with DesFit. They have a two-parter on Whoop.
I have been a strava user since I started on my journey 10+ years ago. I upload via Garmin. Strava is my whole fitness diary in that time. Bike, run, walk, swim also zwift and wattbike hub. I use Garmin but not all activities are on Garmin.
Would I be able to download my whole strava activities and upload them to another platform to keep this whole diary active.
Heads will roll.
I am curious your full take on the Suunto lawsuit. Not sure if I missed that in one of your other posts
I’m working on it.
It’s a messier one, because there’s a bunch of hyper-specific claims, and in some areas I’m not quite as deep on (golfing functionality, antenna design, etc…).
That said, I have talked to a number of lawyers on it, and the general gist is that’s a very different lawsuit from the Strava one. The Suunto one has all the hallmarks of a money grab, notably the specific court they filed it in, as well as the law firm they selected.
Like the Strava one, I don’t think it’s going to end well for Suunto (even if Suunto is right). Because, as one lawyer put it to me “all these companies somewhat infringe on everyone else, and by virtue of that, it’s sorta a mutually assured destruction scenario”, which is why we’ve never seen lawsuits. In this case, Garmin has a far greater patent portfolio than Suunto does, as it pertains to GPS watches specifically.
Strava wants to go for an IPO and just made their investors very clear that the company is completely worthless when Garmin (or others) cut off the data connection. Perfectly executed management. Game over.
So what happens with the original dispute? Will Strava be crediting Garmin every time it shows a map that came from Garmin Connect?
Yes, they acknowledge that independently, then later dropped the lawsuit.
Appreciate all the insights and background. This is as perplexing as it seemed.
As a LONG-time Garmin user (and shareholder) I am seriously considering dropping my Strava paid subscription. They have continually degraded the features in the free account to the point it’s not very useful.
But since I mostly want to compare my results to my previous–and not others–that the social aspects of Strava are easily done without.
Any chance Garmin sues for libel? Strava threw some pretty big accusations their way.
You had me at “Strava folds”. I thought they went under.
Enjoyed the article. Your sites ads make this impossible to read on a phone. I kept getting pushed around the page.
Things that customers of Strava DO want:
-Features they requested in the forum, often ignored for years without being implemented, if ever.
-A timeline of upcoming improvements (Like Zwift publishes)
-Simple, logical, value-for-money membership options
-Better use of AI to actually provide value (such as analysis of data and coaching)
-Better policing of strava segments.
-Access to 3rd party apps so they can better analyse their data
Things that customers of Strava DO NOT want:
-Changing the feed to some ridiculous prioritised view
-making no improvements in cheating detection
-Confusing subscription options which don’t provide value
-Glacial cadence of improvements and updates
-On the rare occasion that new features are introduced, they are ones no-one asked for, while actual requests are ignored
-Blocking the API to 3rd parties who do a better job of analysing data than Strava.
-Claiming Strava owns customers data while suing Garmin for claiming exact same reason
-Frivolous lawsuits against partners
So much drama. I’m a Strava subscriber for 10 plus years and not at all bothered by this. The app provides a place to store my data and segment/route info as well as a way to keep in touch with friends. In other words, they give me what I pay for.. I couldn’t care less who they decide to sue/not sue; it’s ‘Merca.
As long as the app is useful to me (and they’re not doing something evil like violating human rights), I have no need to play corporate police and punish Strava for whatever short-lived mistake they happen to make. Overall, they still have a successful business model. But if you feel the need to protest out of principle, good for you.
Thats a fair position.
I actually have paused my subscription at times over the last 10 years, due to sheer frustration. Strava management has taken a great idea with so much potential. Then, time and time again. Just let it wither through lack of attention or go out of their way to anger their paying customers.
I’ve found it bewildering at times to see so much customer goodwill being burnt. People submit exciting feature ideas and no-one from strava bothers replying until actual years later. Features are implemented which add zero value and just make things harder.
There was a particularly bad couple of years during the “prioritised feed” era when Strava seemed to use every opportunity to annoy customers. They got a new CEO and things got better for a while. New features actually were implemented, some of which were even what customers asked for. I restarted my subscription at that point.
But this latest legal escapade seems to be back to the old days.
Reasonable reaction if you take this strava screw up completely in isolation. But their other screwups have significant negative impact directly on users. Their many screwups with the API for example. And the bad judgment shown with this suggests that they will continue to come out with more screwups that do impact users in the future.
This is an interesting take. If you value Strava so much you should care how the company is doing with regard to treating its own partners. As you can see, Strava has hurt itself and has made quite a bit of its userbase upset. This will hurt your experience with Strava in the long run if people unsubscribe or leave Strava.
A slap in the face for Strava is desirable. However, Koomot is not my favourite app. It is a completely different product from Strava.
After all of this, I just really hope they do not f*up Runna – the only training app i really like and stick to for many months already.
(total amateur here who just tries to get back to running)
I only loosely followed this but this was really good work by DCR.
When an industry observer (granted the best industry observer) looks at this suit and swats it down piece by piece very quickly and with supreme confidence….it makes me wonder whether Strava has any actual adult supervision.
I’m surprised no one picked the real lesson here: do not leave home without your stuffed/shirt dumpster fire.
Well said Ray! Brilliant video as ever, and very timely!
I’ve quoted you on linkedin: link to linkedin.com
Strava’s IPO is going to fail just as massively.
Thanks, great information
Strava also forgot that Garmin customers are lifers. Deleted my Strava app & installed Komoot.
RIP Strava IPO
Shocker of the century. Thanks for covering this mini-saga!
I will also say: I doubt that runners like me who use both Strava and Garmin will be cancelling Strava in droves to punish the company or anything like that. Specifically I don’t think the indignant reactions in this comment section are representative of the majority of users.
I don’t think the average Strava-using runner cares about any of this legal (or technical) stuff as long their Garmin activities automatically sync to Strava as per usuge. I run with a lawyer who was vaguely aware of the suit, and she literally had no opinion or emotional reaction to the news except “that’s crazy”. She certainly wasn’t foaming at the mouth and threatening to delete her Strava account. Otoh, she probably would be sad if Strava actually went away, or if her Garmin stopped syncing with Strava, because that would cut her off from her training group and running friends.
I also know a lot of Garmin-using runners who almost never open Connect but almost exclusively use Strava. Seems that the general sentiment is that Connect is too complex and user-unfriendly. Plus obviously they are using Strava for its social features, and they would probably never use the equivalent social features in Connect.
Ofc as you pointed out, Strava may have done a great deal of damage to their relationship with Garmin, and also pushed Garmin to flirt with Strava’s competitors.
But as long as no major negative changes happen that directly affect existing Strava users, I don’t think there’ll be a lot of blowback from users themselves.
I am at the opposite side, as soon as my intervals.icu expires, I’ll subscribe to Strava. All these years I’ve been a mostly Garmin user, so I hadn’t felt the need for a platform to hold all my data. Now I’m back to Amazfit after 10 years and my next device could very well be another Amazfit or Suunto or a Coros (probably never again a Garmin), so I think that a unified platform is not a bad idea.
Strava saw how the USA single-handily soured relations with their closest trade partner, Canada, and decided to try it out for themselves.
What could possibly go wrong?
Ray! I have a question.
What happened to the patent infringement lawsuit CardiacSense filed against Garmin and COROS?
I understand Garmin won the first round, and COROS reached a mutually agreed-upon settlement with CardiacSense.