Wahoo Fitness has announced to members that in less than 30 days – on October 31, 2023, the company will shut down the virtual cycling app RGT in an effort to focus “exclusively [on their] structured training content”.
Wahoo had acquired RGT (previously called Road Grand Tours) just over a year ago in April 2022 – ostensibly saving the platform at the time, when it was looking for buyers. Albeit, while the announcement was officially made in April 2022, the company said at the time that things had been in the works for a while – as proven by announcement-day integration of certain features. One does have to keep in mind that the size of the RGT team at the time was essentially numbered in the single digits, compared to larger platforms with many hundreds of employees.
Shortly after the acquisition, Wahoo did make a number of enhancements to the platform, such as voice chat last fall (which Zwift lacks), and then even bringing out dedicated steering for it with a new piece of hardware that you use your phone to steer with – the Wahoo KICKR STEER. The RGT platform did become favored by a smaller group of race-focused riders, mainly for some of the race tactics aspect of the platform.
However, when it came to volume of riders on the platform – that always lagged considerably behind Zwift. While certain scheduled race series did attract a good crowd, that didn’t really make up for the sheer quantity of races/events/group rides offered by Zwift at literally all hours of the day. And that sets aside the number of actual users. For comparison, while pulling up the list of routes at this very moment, RGT totals a mere 35 riders in total. Whereas Zwift currently shows 3,902 riders. Certainly, it’s a Monday morning at 11AM CET – but that’s beside the point. People ride whenever they have time, and these numbers scaled about the same at different times of day, with RGT really only spiking during pre-scheduled races.
In other words, the writing has been on the wall for quite some time – as none of these user counts are that different to any other time period/day over the last 6-8 months.
Wahoo’s Official Statements
Now, for the purposes of historical context, there’s two statements that Wahoo has put out today. The first is an e-mail to all paid RGT users, which I’ve copied below (free RGT users after this):
RGT Closing October 31st, claim a complimentary Zwift subscription
Wahoo’s mission is to “build the better athlete in all of us” through our world-renowned KICKR smart trainers, ELEMNT bike computers, connected fitness products, and Wahoo X software. Wahoo X includes the structured training app SYSTM (formerly The Sufferfest) and the virtual cycling app RGT. To deliver the very best experience for you, our valued customers, we have made the strategic decision to focus on our long-established strength in structured training content through SYSTM. We will be closing RGT effective October 31, 2023.
This shift in focus means our talented team’s efforts, attention, and innovation will now be dedicated exclusively to our structured training content. Our vision for Wahoo X going forward is clear: to deliver the absolute best training software to help you become stronger, fitter, and faster, both on and off the bike.
There will be continued improvements to functionality and content to give you even better value, plus more immersive, integrated, structured workouts designed by world-class coaches using cutting-edge sports science to use indoors or outdoors – including cycling, yoga, strength & mobility, running, swimming, and mental training.
We deeply appreciate your membership and loyalty, and we understand this news may be inconvenient. To make this transition smoother for you, we’ve arranged an exclusive one-time offer: 3 months of complimentary Zwift membership. With Zwift, you can continue to ride, race, and connect with fellow Wahooligans in the virtual world. This combination offers you the best of both worlds: structured training excellence with Wahoo SYSTM and access to the world’s largest virtual riding community through the Zwift app —an unbeatable combination.
Please take note of the following important dates and terms:
You will continue to have access to RGT as usual until October 31, 2023.
You must redeem your complimentary Zwift membership code below by no later than October 31, 2023. If you do not claim your code before that time, it will be automatically forfeited and can no longer be used.
Your code must be redeemed through zwift.com and requires a Zwift account to use. The 12-month Zwift subscription is fulfilled by Zwift and is governed by Zwift’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
Any workout data associated with your use of Wahoo X, including RGT workouts, will be maintained by Wahoo according to Wahoo’s Privacy Policy. You can exercise your rights to download, delete, or restrict the use of your data at any time by submitting a request here.
Support During Transition: If you have any questions or need assistance during this transition period, our support team is here to help. You can reach out to our support team at any time.
We genuinely appreciate your involvement in our Wahoo X community and eagerly anticipate our ongoing journey to help you achieve your fullest potential as an athlete.
For free (unpaid) RGT users, you’re getting a free month of Wahoo SYSTM instead:
“Wahoo’s mission is to “build the better athlete in all of us” through our world-renowned KICKR smart trainers, ELEMNT bike computers, connected fitness products, and software. Wahoo X includes the structured training app SYSTM (formerly The Sufferfest) and the virtual cycling app RGT.
To deliver the very best experience for Wahooligans – we have made the strategic decision to focus on our long-established strengths around structured training content through SYSTM. We will be closing RGT at the end of October (10/31/2023).
This shift in focus means our talented team’s efforts, attention, and innovation will now be dedicated exclusively to SYSTM. Our vision for SYSTM is clear: to deliver the absolute best training software to help you become stronger, fitter, and faster, both on and off the bike.
We genuinely appreciate your involvement in our Wahoo X community and we understand this news may be inconvenient. To make this transition smoother for you, we’d like to offer you 30 days free of full access to SYSTM to explore the immersive content and effective workouts that we will continue to offer and expand upon.”
And then the second, is a prepared reactive press tidbit that Wahoo is sending to media outlets retroactively, which is also listed below:
A Wahoo spokesperson said: “Wahoo’s mission is to build the better athlete in all of us through our world-renowned KICKR smart trainers, ELEMNT bike computers, connected fitness products and software. To deliver the very best experience for our customers – we have made the strategic decision to focus on Wahoo’s long-established strengths around structured training content, through SYSTM and will be closing virtual cycling app RGT at the end of October (10/31/2023).
This change of focus means that all of Wahoo’s talented software team’s energy, attention and innovation will become solely focused on SYSTM and the company’s long-held vision to create the very best hardware and training software to help athletes get stronger, fitter, faster on and off the bike.
Over the coming month we will be announcing a number of exciting new developments – these will include investment in SYSTM with improved functionality, new content and features, and a significant update to the Wahoo App to simplify the way that users interact with their Wahoo devices.”
Wahoo has acquired easy-to-redeem complimentary Zwift memberships – to give its customers the very best in structured training with Wahoo SYSTM and access to the world’s biggest virtual riding community with the Zwift app.
Beyond that, I’ve included various other small tidbits from a conference call with Wahoo, within this post.
Impact to RGT Users & Staff:
In a nutshell, starting November 1st, RGT will cease to exist. However, Wahoo SYSTM – their structured workout platform will continue to exist, and will actually see a number of improvements and content expansions later this fall. Wahoo isn’t outlining all of those yet today, but they did hint at a few of them in their statement:
“Over the coming month we will be announcing a number of exciting new developments – these will include investment in SYSTM with improved functionality, new content and features, and a significant update to the Wahoo App to simplify the way that users interact with their Wahoo devices.”
However, for those that prefer the RGT-style racing, Wahoo is giving redemption codes for Zwift. These codes come in two forms. For those on monthly subscriptions, you’ll get a 3-month code to Zwift. For those on annual subscriptions, you’ll get a 12-month code to Zwift. These codes are stackable onto your existing Zwift subscription, if you already have one. Thus, if you had a Zwift sub that ended in December 2023, once redeemed, your Zwift subscription will end in December 2024 instead.
For those annual members that don’t want a Zwift subscription, Wahoo says they’ll work with those members on a “case by case basis”, which I presume to mean they’ll manually process refunds.
No portion of the RGT rides/workouts/etc is being ported to Zwift. That magic road ends here. Specifically:
“RGT data will NOT be transferring over to Zwift, any new account with Zwift will start from the beginning with them and accumulate unlocks as any new rider would to their platform.
Any RGT ride data (included in fit files) is already uploaded to the Wahoo Cloud. This would include the athlete profile data. All other data, including event participation, event results, magic roads, workouts – will be deleted with the RGT database.”
Speaking of other roads, Wahoo is also making some changes with their sport science teams. You may have heard back at the end of August that Wahoo closed their Boulder office, including the big sport science lab that created. That meant that well-known sport scientist Neal Henderson also left. Interestingly, Wahoo noted that they’re consolidating their sport and data science teams from a number of locations. Here’s their statements on that:
“We have recently merged our sports science and data science teams to create a Sports and Data Science centre of excellence. This World Class team will be based across locations in Amsterdam, Atlanta and Boulder – it boasts 3 PhDs and 8 Masters of Science degrees, covering Biomedical Engineering, Data Science, Applied Mathematics, Machine Learning, Human Movement Science, and Aerospace Engineering. This state-of-the-art science and coaching knowledge has influenced and informed the development of every single device, sensor, and training application that Wahoo has ever created – from hardware functionality, to higher-level product features like the Summit ELEMNT bike computer feature – through to science-backed cycling workouts in our SYSTM training app. The newly formed team will split their time between both hardware and software.”
One of the challenges that I think Wahoo had with the Boulder facility, was translating that into specific tangible features on Wahoo products that people could point to. Sure, Neal and his team undoubtedly influenced lots of aspects, but a lot of that was kinda fuzzy from an end-consumer standpoint. Not because of something Neal’s team did (or didn’t do), but rather, because Wahoo’s product offerings aren’t heavily tied to physiological metrics like we’d see from Garmin’s (via FirstBeat) or Polar.
Finally, when asked if any RGT employees will be losing their jobs (as Wahoo noted they’re working to find positions within the company), a Wahoo spokesperson says that “We expect that no more than 4 people will be affected”.
Going Forward:
There’s no good way of putting it: Losing a platform (a choice) isn’t good for consumers.
At the same time, losing an entire indoor training company isn’t good either. It was well documented that Wahoo got themselves into a substantial financial pickle last year, partially driven by the structure of their previous private equity ownership situation. One that was recently resolved through them buying themselves away from that.
However, that’d also somewhat sidestep the simple reality that Wahoo had arguably spread themselves too thin with too many products. And it’d also sidestep the reality that Wahoo came dangerously close to going under (whether that be Chapter 11 or otherwise). Wahoo themselves documented this to the judge as part of their lawsuit against Zwift, and debt rating companies documented this to the rest of the world. Or, one could just look at the numerous employees that were let go in numerous round after round of layoffs. Now, the RGT team itself was essentially miniscule in the grand scheme of Wahoo’s operations. Again, even post-acquisition it was single-digits in size of employees. Thus – RGT was never going to be make or break for Wahoo as a company.
Given the user count numbers shown, I can’t see any possible way the RGT platform was coming close to breaking even, let alone being a contributor. In fact, it was likely a substantial financial expense for the company. Given those are smart employees that are focused on cycling, it makes far more sense from a business standpoint to refocus them into other areas of the company. And while there are arguably plenty of online cycling platforms (even if Zwift is massive), there are actually very few indoor trainer companies – and I’d argue we’d rather have more competitors in that space than not. Albeit, the recent hardware partnerships with Zwift does put some wrinkles into that too. As always, most things in life (or business) aren’t black and white.
With that, thanks for reading!
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Goddam, I suppose was my fault for sticking with the free rgt option 😥😥😥😥😥
they should never have sold out to wahoo
I’m not sure they’d have even lasted this long if they hadn’t.
I had only just signed up for a year of Wahoo X, because I found RGT better than Zwift. Now they offer me a year of Zwift instead (at least I get a full year, because I have a full year left), but I had just left Zwift because I didn’t like it as much as the alternatives. This sucks.
Very sad news indeed. I was a big supporter of RGT and enjoyed it’s specific services which Zwift will never be able to provide.
It also leaves a very bad taste in the mouth and losing another competitor isn’t good for any subscribers.
Sort of reminds me of Microsoft’s foray into mobile phone operating systems. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how good your offering is and in what (sometimes niche) ways it’s better than the competition, if you don’t hit that critical mass quickly, you’re never going to and the writing’s on the wall.
The first time I used RGT was just last year and I spent much of the ride trying to work out what I had set up wrong as I couldn’t see any of the other riders. Then when somebody else did actually join I realised that nothing was wrong and I really had been cycling alone. As somebody who doesn’t do online races or team rides, I had never really appreciated how much having other riders in the game contributed to my Zwift experience until that sterile experience of RGT.
I miss my Windows Phone. It was the Beta video tape of phone operating systems.
I never used RGT (paid or otherwise), but hope Rouvy (which I have used as a paid subscriber) doesn’t go the same way. If it does, I’ll dust off my Spinervals VHS tapes.
Sad news indeed, have been a paying customers since 2021 (pre-Wahoo time). I really liked the platform – even though it has been a quite lonely experience recently.
Anyone know if it is possible to use the Wahoo Steer Gizmo on Zwift?
, or is it useless now? There was some reports that it would work on Zwift with the phone rotated(?), but I haven’t figured out how.
Damn, they only gave you 3 month free Zwift? 12 here bay-beee!
But, srsly…why do some people get 3 and some 12? Not that I’M complaining…
I expect the difference might be how long you have paid for already – or maybe just whether you are on monthly or yearly payments? I just paid for an entire year and also get 12 months. (Wonder if I can sell that on? I won’t be using it…)
good point. Was thinking in terms of Zwift accounts (which is dormant for me) but not wahoo…I’m on a yearly.
Now, I have to use my free 30 days of zwift from a promo code but not forget to respond to the Wahoo email before October is over!!! #timingiseverything
Sad to see RGT being shut down. They seem to be sending a different E-mail to some RGT users (possibly only those subscribing through AppleApp Store, as I am) . I’m pretty annoyed they aren’t giving me 3 months of Zwift and instead seem to be offering 1 month of Sufferfest which I already have!!! This is what my E-Mail said –
RGT Closing October 31st
Wahoo’s mission is to “build the better athlete in all of us” through our world-renowned KICKR smart trainers, ELEMNT bike computers, connected fitness products, and software. Wahoo X includes the structured training app SYSTM (formerly The Sufferfest) and the virtual cycling app RGT.
To deliver the very best experience for Wahooligans – we have made the strategic decision to focus on our long-established strengths around structured training content through SYSTM. We will be closing RGT at the end of October (10/31/2023).
This shift in focus means our talented team’s efforts, attention, and innovation will now be dedicated exclusively to SYSTM. Our vision for SYSTM is clear: to deliver the absolute best training software to help you become stronger, fitter, and faster, both on and off the bike.
We genuinely appreciate your involvement in our Wahoo X community and we understand this news may be inconvenient. To make this transition smoother for you, we’d like to offer you 30 days free of full access to SYSTM to explore the immersive content and effective workouts that we will continue to offer and expand upon.
Hm, today I have received the message from Wahoo, but they only suggest me 1-month free membership to SYSTM. Not to Zwift.
What does it mean?
If I re-new my monthly access to Zwift Just now Could I use it 3 month?
Errr, did you mean to include your personal Unique Code in that picture?
I’ve added clarification from Wahoo, if you were a free RGT user, you only get 1-month free to SYSTM, not Zwift. :-/
Thank you for you clarify, as usualy.
I’m afraid that’s not correct – I pay monthly via Apple Store for RGT and SYSTM but have only got a 1 mth free SYSTM offer.
i am on a 12+3 months subscription bought last black friday and still “only” got 3 months of zwift 🙁 On my wahoo account page it says i am on a monthly plan with next billing date in februar 2024.
Should free/lite RGT/X users have received a communication with a link for the 1-month free offer?
for everyone on a 12+3 months plan, just contact wahoo support i got a 12 month zwift code now.
Just got my email, was actually wondering if it was a scam, their website says nothing and is still advertising RGT. That seems pretty underhanded. I assume the pricing will remain the same? Did they mention anything? Just basically dropping 50% of the functionality, or from another perspective raising the price of Systm by 100%? Will it still be called Wahoo X?
I guess they want neither part to survive. I can’t see many indoor cyclists paying that much just for the training content alone, Trainer Road makes more sense if that is all you are into. I’ll cancel mine and go back to Zwift. Which for me is doubly disappointing as I left due to them losing all my workout data through a glitch. Seems like there are no good choices here. I think Wahoo are missing that ‘eco-system’ perspective. People buy into keeping things all in one company. Even if it was making a loss on RGT, it was probably supporting sales elsewhere. I’ll miss magic roads the most. It is a great little tool for training for a specific race.
I think the worst part is they bought it and discarded it rather than maybe open sourcing it instead, or finding someone interested in running it. I suspect they have made a back handed deal with Zwift to eliminate competition, hence the free subs.
“I suspect they have made a back handed deal with Zwift to eliminate competition”
Including SYSTM? This does seem a weird approach by Wahoo, giving a competitor a free bite of their subscriber base. I wonder how many SYSTM users will try Zwift’s structured workouts and decide they actually prefer them?
That is assuming this isn’t reciprocal foul play. If Zwift has offered to scale back structured workouts (which they are not that interested in) in exchange for Wahoo getting out of the open online riding space then this will make sense to both companies. They want you to have to buy both subscriptions by neither operating a full service. Kind of like the streaming companies did by moving stuff off Netflix and then starting their own service. Or Zwift has offered greater preferential support for Wahoo hardware, that would be enticing?
The alternative is they are looking for an excuse to kill both and this is phase 1. RGT goes first, they lose half their subscribers and then can apologetically close Systm too as it is no longer feasible. Maybe doing both at once was considered too much of a hit to the overall Wahoo communities confidence in their products and longevity. I think this might be at least in their minds. If they were serious about keeping it they would have timed their closure alongside releasing these new enhancements DC mentioned they had coming. There seems a complete disregard here for keeping their customer base. No attempt to mollify, no concession on price, no attempt to sell these future updates to encourage people to stay.
Conspiracy theories afoot lol, but businesses do tend to be predictable. They don’t like to fail openly, gently encouraging your users to leave on their own decision before you fully close down reduces the risk of causing outrage and alienating them to your other products. What do you think?
“I suspect they have made a back handed deal with Zwift to eliminate competition, hence the free subs.” A pretty silly conspiracy theory.
If we go by DC’s numbers, RGT has less than 1% of Zwift’s users. That’s not worth a lot to Zwift and is barely noticeable, let alone “competition”. My guess would be that Wahoo decided to shut down RGT around the time of, or soon after the ownership change to save money. The Zwift memberships might have been a way to reduce the amount of money that went to Wahoo as part of the settlement, maybe?
Not sure, I know it can seem like there is a disparity of impact, but companies look ahead and will remove potential future competitors if they can. I was looking at DCs article on the sudden cooperation between Zwift and Wahoo post the legal battle. There definitely seems to be collusion there. It might have been part of the deal to put Wahoo hardware back on Zwift. That seems a deal that might have more parity.
Let me put this another way. If there are only a handful of users the server costs will be minimal and could be severely scaled back for resources. They are under no obligation to enhance RGT. I think it would have cost virtually nothing just to keep it running but state it will no longer be updated, no new content. The choice to force remove it and redirect users to Zwift to save a relatively small amount of server costs doesn’t make any sense. I’m not sure what it is, but there is definitely other factors at work here.
I’ll come back to Wahoo if they develop an Apple TV app for System. I enjoy the structured workouts from sufferfest and the on location videos. I left Zwift last year after having too much trouble with their app. To me, RGT was a more solid platform even if it lacked the routes and community that Zwift offers. Sad to see it go.
yesterday i tried SYSTM on macos (macmini M1) and used ATV as a second Monitor on macmini with mirror screen option, works great
I’d just be happy if Wahoo can sort out their fiasco created by their dodgy firmware updates that they released this past month so that their hardware would actually work.
Ray, anything new you can report on Rolla (link to rolla.app) as a potential RGT Replacement?
When I tried it it was ultra slow with untolerable refresh rates….
RGT was fairly good before Wahoo, thee was a reduced amount ot riders which was nice, the physics needed some improvement but it was good. Wahoo buried a nice option. I hope the original creators retake the idea and develop a new improved platform.
Noooo I need magic roads – I’m wfh now so not commuting and getting fat and Magic Roads let me upload GPX files of previous commutes – hard but short HIT rides that saw me lose 30kg in 8 months – to RGT to “commute” to work and back at home, it was a brilliant idea and they pulled the plug just as I got them uploaded.
Does any other software support uploading GPX? I’ll pay anything!
BKOOL have that since at least 2014, when I joined.
Not any longer
Yes they do. You just press the GENERATE ROUTE IN 3D button on a route you’ve ridder, and if the GPS data are good, it will make a 3D version…
Wahoo took it on, then it simply carried on. No investment, no iteration (steering? What was that about?), no interest.
It died because they didn’t feed it – it starved to death.
Brilliant platform smothered.
Wahoo sending clients to Zwift – thats the most shocking part of this story considering the legal issues not so long ago, it is sad RGT has gone for sure.
Be quite interesting if Zwift suddenly stopped selling the Zwift Hub in the next 12 months. This could be part of an agreement to not compete in each others specialism. Maybe the legal issues were resolved by a bilateral agreement of cooperation. Not sure that is overall good for the consumer. Would make sense. Wahoo keeps the training aspect only as that is kind of the bare minimum for a smart trainer.
The Zwift code is an email? I don’t seem to have gotten mine yet. I’m a SYSTM user (though paying for both with the combined account) – do I get 12 months of Zwift as well?
As a longtime Sufferfest (now SYSTM) user, and occasional RGT user, this is a little frustrating…. although RGT was buggy as hell, at least they had an AppleTV app. Hopefully Wahoo can now focus on getting that long awaited AppleTV app for SYSTM….?
I’d moved away from Zwift and was happy enough with RGT as an (infrequent) replacement, but will now switch back to the SYSTM/Zwift combo.
Is it really worth paying for both? It seems like a lot of money just for the sufferfest content, the training content is not really any better than Zwift. At least Zwift you can build your own workouts. I still have all my original ‘non-smart’ Sufferfest videos lol, maybe that is the option here.
Would love to see them release RGT as open source.
I don’t think that will happen. Zwift and Wahoo seem to be working together. They won’t want another competitor, or the risk that Tacx/Garmin might pick it up and run with it. They are a massive company with a history in software so that would be a possibility. It’ll be dead and buried I suspect, as will Sufferfest I predict within 12 months.
Kind of interested to see where Garmin goes on the software front. I only recently bought a Kickr Core as I had problems with Tacx (the company) with my previous smart trainer. Now it is Garmin I will probably go back on my next upgrade, especially as Wahoo ditched on RGT, it feels like a dick move.
that would require a substantial amount of cash for running the application for a worldwide audience. Do remember that what you see on the app is by no means everything that’s going on. There is a backbone of servers, storage, databases etc that are run behind the scenes to be able to run something like this. – just like any mmo game! Those operational costs can actually be very substantial and might even be the thing that kills it in the end if not being careful.
Depends on how well it is written. I write software for a living and have created numerous high throughput software systems that support 1000s of users at a time but cost less than a Kickr Core to run a month. Intelligent use of cloud computing is a game changer, you only pay for what you use, and if you know what you are doing a lot of those resources are incredibly cheap. What costs is paying for hardware that is drastically underutilized and is sitting there redundant most of the time. Also this sort of app could harness peer processing to the point where the server is actually handling very little of the load.
I get that Wahoo are not a software company and maybe it is so badly written it just can’t be run efficiently but it wouldn’t take much to fix if they really wanted to. It’s why this is all a bit fishy. It’s the modern world, if no one is using it it should have virtually zero costs. If not the answer isn’t to ditch it, the answer is to move it to a model where costs scale with usage. Yes it might have cost $200K in dev costs to reorganize the app, but even with their financial troubles that is peanuts to a company of Wahoos size.
I work in the IT-industry as well, however more on the infrastructure side. Yes cloud computing “was” a gamechanger, however today prices are actually skyrocketing. However i was not aware they used unity. Back when i was talking to their “support” i was left with the impression that it was something else, and couldn’t be changed without a complete rewrite (had they made a deal with the swiss company that helped Microsoft in flight sim 2020, that could have been absolutely amazing for magic roads and a true gamechanger.)
My most used feature of RGT is Magic Roads. If Wahoo open sourced the product I could run it locally for Magic Road sessions. It doesn’t require you to run it for a global audience, even though it would be an option if it was open sourced.
i was trying to work out how I’m classified as not a paying subscriber to RGT given that I have an annual subscription to Wahoo, which lets me do everything on RGT. Apparently I’m a subscriber to “Sufferfest 2020” which does not count.
Looking forward to arguing this point.
Is it not the reason that license cost for the Unity graphics engine, which drives RGT, sky-rocketed recently? So Wahoo would be forced to pay premium (including for freebie users also)
I assume this is the per-install licence cost? Its a good thought, but Unity published a press release after the community was outraged and said they were reconsidering it. Besides, that’s pretty recent, it would be a quick turn around. Either way not sure it was so much that it would make a company ditch their entire product. I’m sure you could port RGT to say Unreal or another engine, from a game perspective it is really basic. All of the graphics assets and geometry would be portable, and the server side would remain intact. You’d just be recreating the menu system and the bikes/riders.
I seriously doubt RGT had enough users/revenue to trigger the fee.
So basically: RGT is a substantially better race simulator than Zwift but nobody uses it because nobody else uses it.
Why is it better? Custom courses, better race dynamics, free to enter events, server-side instead of client side rider positioning (everyone experiences same reality), braking on corners, universal steering for better tactics, no silly power-ups, all riders on same “equipment” (no XP advantage from magic glowing bikes, for example), community event creation.
I’m sorry to see it go. Members of the community invested a lot into RGT.
Thanks for all the hard work you and the NorCal crew did putting on your races. I had a lot of fun in the few I rode in! Best of luck moving on from here – indieVelo might be a good option to check out. It reminds me a bit of RGT.
Just like in life, you work, you have better bikes. I worked for the throne for two years :). But don’t worry, it’s only a few senkund difference on the Alpe. It’s better to invest in your leg muscles to become stronger on a weaker bike in Zwift.
Soooo why did they buy them (RGT) in the first place? Financially struggling company splashes money they didn’t have to buy another struggling company that they did nothing with other than to close them a year later… Either there’s some missing component here or wahoo is an incredibly incompetent organization….
I’ll put a plug in for Bkool for anyone looking for an alternative. I’ve been using it for 3 years and have seen consistent improvement in the platform. You can upload gpx and video files to create your own rides. Worth checking out. I also believe it to be the least expensive (other than free) option out there.
Just had a look at a BKool app review. Seems pretty good so I will give it a go. Feeling resistant to the idea of just going back to Zwift. I feel like that is what the intention is here to force people over to Zwift and hope laziness means they’ll stay there. I don’t like just doing what I am told. I have a rebellious streak lol. I might use the free 3 month subscription though, if it is going to be tricks and games then I can play too. I always just set a reminder of when I need to cancel so I don’t forget.
Thank you! I just want to upload the pre covid daily commute GPX files cos now most of us nerds are working from home now having proved we won’t goof off so I’m getting fat! I’ll check BKOOL asap!
The gpx feature seems pretty important for a wide range of people, Wahoo probably should have pushed that more to non racers.
RGT is amazing. I paid a yearly subscription to wahoo because they had RGT. Now, I will need a refund. I wish Wahoo never purchased RGT because once RGT got into the hands of a big company (Wahoo), this happens. RGT is the very best bicycle app on the planet in my opinion and this is my main indoor app. I use the Magic Roads feature exclusively. I guess Wahoo does care about their customers (me) who uses RGT. Now that Wahoo is planning to drop RGT, I will stop using Wahoo products. I will cancel my subscription to Wahoo and I will be promoting to nee fellow cyclists to avoid using Wahoo products if possible. Wahoo, you people are foolish (idiots) to drop RGT. I guess you don’t care about your customers? RGT was doomed the moment it got into the hands of Wahoo. I was using RGT before Wahoo purchased the platform and I was hoping that the purchase would spell great news for the platform and myself. But, now I can see that was only doom. I hate Wahoo for dropping RGT and I will no longer support Wahoo !!! You can go to hell Wahoo !!!
Agreed. I hate wah0000 too. Get your friends to never give them any money ever again!
Blaming Wahoo for the demise of a dead platform, no matter how novel compared to Zwift, is misguided. I got bored of Zwift and also tried RGT for a couple of years and while I loved the ride physics and racing, I got tired of the tumbleweed feeling every time I logged on. Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall. The people who are to blame are us, the indoor riding community who decided to stay with Zwift.
FYI, Wahoo X members on a monthly plan receive a 3-month membership for Zwift (not the 12 months of Wahoo X subscribers on a yearly plan, and not the 1 months of non-subscribers).
Wahoo RGT was the only way I could use my Zwift Hub trainer without paying some sort of subscription. Now that Wahoo RGT is gone, is there any other free of charge way to use the trainer some way, with or without video output?
Otherwise I am left with a piece of hardware I can not use. I also invested in Apple TV which I have no other use for. 🙁
mywhoosh – the platform is actually quite ok, but the concept behind is very dividing as it is backed by the arab royal family. (just like team UAE – which uses the platform) or more specifically the sports department that has pretty much unlimited funding. Progress is certainly happening.
If you want truly free and can settle with your own videos and a gpx, go for golden cheetah. Apart from the absolute beast of an application (windows/mac/linux only) that has A LOT of useful stuff, but also with huge learning curve if you want to customize it to your liking. You have the option to download structured erg sessions from the “old” ergdb database – impossible to find a needle in a haystack though. You can also ride on previous GPX tracks. OR just download one from one of the global open track databases (i’m slowly trying to progress on the Kona Tri route 🙂 ) Or simply make them yourself as it has a built in workout editor. It can show video in a “window” in the interface as well.
Lots of free options to use your trainer. For something akin to RGT, two come to mind: indieVelo and MyWoosh. IndieVelo has superior physics and race tactics, MyWoosh has better looking graphics. Both are free. If you just want structured training, you could check out TrainerDay, or use a Wahoo/Garmin head unit.
fun fact – trainerday was actually built on the old ergDB database 🙂
Might keep a small eye on the smart bike trainer YT channel. He’s pretty good at looking at the different options available. Maybe not quite on the level like Ray’s attention to detail, but very no frills and honest.
I was suprised others hadn’t mentioned MyWhoosh and IndieVelo. MyWhoosh is growing the quickest with lots of workouts and the racing. My only gripe with both platforms is the number of bot riders trying to look like real people.
MyWhoosh is definitely the most developed of the two platform, I know IndieVelo seems to be focused on racing and social with perhaps a more experienced indoor cycling team behind it, but I do fear it’s hitting the market at a very tough time with MyWhoosh….. as I understand it MyWhoosh has strong funding behind it.
Thank you for the alternative suggestions!
Thank you for suggestions. Unfortunately neither MyWhoosh nor indieVelo run on Apple TV, but at least there is something. MyWhoosh looks good.
Unfortunately, I have no head units/watches that support trainers, either.
MyWhoosh It’s also a major disadvantage for me that there is no this application on AppleTV. On a PC i5 with 2GB graphics I have 12/fps 🙁 where on zwift it runs smoothly on pc.
So I tried MyWhoosh on Android phone. It connected to my Zwif Hub trainer just fine. I will cast it to big screen using Chromecast, or even cast it to Apple TV using some casting app.
So it looks like I have my free RGT replacement.
Animation looks a bit jumpy but I do not care that múch.
I think this will be better in the long run for Wahoo. While I signed up with Wahoo for the Systm workouts I couldn’t care less about RGT, never really liked it when I used it, and although I’m not a Zwift person, felt Zwift had the better platform. I hope this move truly makes Systm all that much better!
I guess I am on the losing end here for switching from yearly to montly payment. When I purchased a Wahoo trainer back in March, I also received, included with the purchase price, a pre-paid 15-month subscription to Wahoo SYSTEM and RGT, which expires on June 27, 2024. However, to avoid being charged a full year membership after June 27, 2024, I switched from yearly to monthly payment. To make a long story short, Wahoo sent me a coupon code for a 3-month membership to Zwift, not a 12-month membership.
Well… the way I see it:
– you have 15 months of SYSTM and a few months of RGT for free
– you have the remainder with Zwift instead of RGT
– you have 3 extra free months of Zwift
I don’t see that as “the losing end” 😉
Hi Seb,
Yes, if it works the way you say in your comment, it would be great. But my concern is that I only get 3 months with Zwift the moment I redeem the code and lose the remainder or RGT at the end of Ocotber (but keep SYSTEM until June 27, 2024). I am not sure the coupon code will give me a Zwift membership until June 27+three months. In any event, I emailed Wahoo to clarify this point.
Hi again Seb,
Wahoo answered my email quickly, and they didn’t answer my question directly, but simply gave me a complimentary 12-month code for Zwift. Which leads me to believe that had I redeemed the 3-month code, I would have only gotten 3 months from the time of redeeming.
If you get a voucher for free Zwift, be aware the free months will not get credited to your Zwift account if you are using the Apple iTunes App Store to pay (common if you installed Zwift on Apple TV). I wasted time figuring this out. See details and a workaround here:
link to support.zwift.com
I’m curious to see if pricing will change in the near future for Wahoo X, since it will only be System.
Considering how much I’m willing to pay for indoor cycling, the choice was between Zwift or System. I prefer System. It was good to know I had a Zwift-like app included but… I never used it.
So arguably, even at the current pricing, it doesn’t change anything in practice, but I guess some users will have (and use) less for the same price and won’t be willing to pay both Zwift and System.
I guess the 3 / 12-months subscriptions to Zwift buy them time to figure out their pricing (or finalise an agreement with Zwift for a combined offer?)
Curious to see what’s ahead on that front. Because System + Zwift for the same price as System + RGT would be a win for users, in my book. Even for a few euros more, actually.
“I’m curious to see if pricing will change in the near future for Wahoo X, since it will only be System.”
SYSTM was US$ 129/yr before RGT acquisition (looking at my 2020 and 2021 subscriptions) so no way the price drops. The current $149 annual is in line with inflation bumps of most other fitness services in the recent past.
One thing I’ve not seen mentioned is that RGT is purported to have run on the Unity engine which, according to ever-trusted, ever-reliable Wikipedia, is slated to begin charging a usage fee (link to en.wikipedia.org). An update indicated that it would apply only to Unity 2024, but it’s certainly plausible that, in order to remain competitive, RGT would have to up the engine.
I know there was an Apple TV app for RGT but it always put me off that I couldn’t use the rest of the SYSTM offerings on the same device. I signed up 2-3 times and always canceled (and went back to Zwift) after a month or so. The idea of having virtual racing, structured training, strength training (and yoga!) is an indoor training holy grail but it seemed so siloed in SYSTM that I always went back to Zwift + TrainerRoad + Sworkit.
I’m not sure if having a single, functional SYSTM app on Apple TV would have saved the future of RGT (and potentially SYSTM, who knows) but I know I won’t consider it again until it is developed.
Are Systm plans and workouts coming to Zwift? That’s what I would like to see.
I’m in the UK and it’s the time of year when I decide which platform to use. Throughout summer I have occasional use of WAHOO lite and 25km of Zwift per month. Last winter was full on SYSTM X, but missed the racing and group workouts on Zwift. RGT just didn’t have enough users to be of any interest. So, just to chuck another one into the mix, I’m currently using MyWhoosh which is free (for now) 🤔
One of the issues with RGT was that most events were driven by the community & Wahoo never promoted them which was a shame as there were some fantastic & well attended events. As a subscriber to RGT for 3 years I’m sad to see it go. MyWhoosh looks interesting graphically for freerides & workouts. No platform gets close to RGT for the physics but indieVelo looks promising.
Going back to Zwift is very much a last resort option for me.
Sucks to see RGT shut down, as it was a pretty good app. My suggestion, and what I personally use, is MyWhoosh :). I find it jisy as good as Zwift and the fact that it is free is mind blowing.
Oil money pays for a lot of “free”
Is anyone convinced by the mealy mouthed PR crap we get fed any more? They must take us for children.
I hate wah00000 for not promoting and growing RGT, the FAR better platform for racing!!! I will NEVER buy another wha00000 product ever again. And I will make sure all my vast influence circle know and does the same. Buh bye, wah00000.
So glad that the lawsuit between Wahoo and Zwift has resulted in higher prices on Zwift trainers and one less competitor for Zwift.
Looks like it was the consumer who lost in this lawsuit.
So that’s how that out-of-court settlement ended: collusion to split the market. Will Zwift only stop aggressively undercutting Kickr pricing, or will they eventually shut down their Jetblack cooperation completely once existing stockpiles are depleted? We’ll see.
The irony is that, as a consumer, I actually prefer them to keep out of each other’s markets: I’d rather see a little less competition than more vertical integration. If only Zwift wasn’t such a dead company walking, never even remotely close to sustainable operation.
So, I contacted Wahoo support and told them that I wasn’t interested in Zwift, so I felt like I was now paying full price for half a product (I had recently paid for an entire year).
They cancelled my subscription and refunded me for the rest of the paid period, no questions asked. So that’s fine for me … except I just thought I had decided on what to do for the winter season. Guess I’m back to shuffling a month here and a month there again between Fulgaz/Systm/Rouvy with some IndieVelo thrown in as well…
The thing for me is they are giving less but charging the same price
I’ve been a seasonal user of sufferfest/systm for years and actually really liked that RGT was available too. Mostly I just used the training but the ability to do a liesure ride was appreciated from time to time
At the current price there’s no way I’ll re-subscribe this winter. It’s a no brainer.
Yeah, that’s a bit odd to me as well – I had a subscription because I got Systm at a good price and RGT at a good price with the combined offer. Now they expect me to pay the same for Systm alone?
sad news indeed, happy to ride on mywhoosh for free !!
I’m absolutely gutted at this news. I loved RGT, which was vastly superior to Zwift. More realistic….a better platform for mature users.
I can’t abide the unrealistic landscapes of Watopia etc.
Just FYI:
From the temperature and nature of comments on RGT FB pages, seems like the biggest chunk of user base will be porting over to IndyVelo.
*Edit*
IndieVelo
MyWhoosh requires a computer monster. I have the same i5 PC and 2GB graphics card, only 12 fps. Slides. Where on the same computer do I have smooth graphics on Zwift? Smoothness is more important to me than the beauty of the surroundings.
however on an ipad with usb-c you can put it on a large screen as well – works very well. i have an ipad air just before the M1 version, and it provides completely smooth graphics – AND in high res as well.
Wahoo tells us about their “mission” and further developement of trainers, bike comuputers, connectet fitness products and software. Nothing mentioned for their watches, or is this a “connected fitnes product”? Long time since new relaese or sw uprgrade for Wahoo watches. Are watches not on the list for further development?
Funny how people rant because « they got less for the same price », but we’re happy to get more for the same price when RGT was integrated to wahoo (If memory serves). And how many of those was paying for RGT, or willing to pay for it was it standalone? Amongst the 35 riders seen by Ray ?
There was no point in keeping RGT artificially alive. It sounds like euthanasia but let’s face it, the app was doomed anyway.
It might also shows that wahoo is confident in SYSTM value vs Zwift. Personally I am, but I still enjoy free rides in zwift. So…I’ll see.
Well, I signed up to Wahoo X only recently and because it included both Systm and RGT. So I am not getting, what I signed up for. Call that a rant if you want 🙄
And so you get a year of zwift instead (priced the same as Wahoo X) to go along SYSTM.
And I’m pretty sure you can ask customer support for your case.
I wasn’t talking about everybody though
But I don’t want Zwift! I already contacted support and got a refund. I was just a bit miffed that you called it a rant, when I find it totally reasonable to expect to get what I pay for, not something else…
Hey Claus, so you have received a refund? Probably a total refund that meens, that your Wahoo SYSTM ends too – right?
I am with Wahoo X for two months now – have an annual contract. Love the possibility to use SYSTEM plans with RGT. But I dont like Swift. So I am thinking about my options right now…
Yes, I cancelled my subscription to get a refund of the remaining period.
I found a code for Rouvy KEEPGOING to get two months for the price of one. Really enjoying it so far.
I will be honest I find Zwift so boring so went to RGT and ok not the people there but it was fine and worked. Then I saw whoosh with the free offer and thought why not.
Got a Bkool sub timing out soon and probably stick with them as well.
Plenty of options out there but some will fail its inevitable really because Zwift is far too big really to beat.
Hi Ray,
With RGT closing soon and leaving some riders looking for a alternative(with the private group event hard to know how many.,)
is the training app review for this 2023-2024 winter is in the work? I always like to know more about all options and innovation.
If you want some irony checkout the article when wahoo acquired RGT just 18 months ago link to dcrainmaker.com
“In talking with Wahoo Founder Chip Hawkins, he says this will mark the start of a substantial growth period for RGT – not just in terms of fueling the company with much-needed cash, but also with new features that compete with Zwift”
Did they add anything besides voice chat last October? link to dcrainmaker.com
“I think things are about to get spicy in the indoor training app realm.”
Unfortunately things did not get spicy. The hardware side had more than enough spice though.
Wahoo is disingenuous and complicit in killing off a great platform because they couldn’t monetize it soon enough. Failure of management. Now they get none of my business and anyone who will listen. Let’s see Wahoo fail!
Sad story but not that much of a surprise given all the facts mentioned also in this article. RGT was not a competitive option and it sucks for its users. I know some that are going to give a try to Rouvy for its selection of real-life routes as that is one of the reasons why people were using RGT as well. It will be an interesting move of users around other platforms in the near future.
Really sad to see RGT being shut down by Wahoo. I guess my time will be spent on MyWhoosh now as I hate the gamey feel of Zwift.
Very sad news. I join from the very beginning as a beta-test. It was a mistake to integrate in wahoo. Very bad idea. Sorry for my simple English