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Tacx Update: Tacx NEO 2 SE Explainer, and Tacx Smart Bike Tidbits

TacxNEO2

Today’s post is going to combine two totally unrelated Tacx things into a single post, because nothing says Friday better than new consolidation. First up, I’ve got a quick explainer on the mysterious Tacx NEO 2 SE trainer (because no, there’s no special paint scheme here – it’s legit different internals). And then an update on why Garmin/Tacx is showing Q3 for delivery of new Tacx NEO Smart Bikes. Oh – and I’ll throw a freebie in on when Zwift steering might come to the Tacx NEO Smart Bike, as it did in Zwift for the Wahoo KICKR Bike last night.

So let’s begin.

Tacx NEO 2 SE Explainer:

Ok, first – a very brief Tacx NEO series refresher:

Tacx NEO Smart: The OG…the original – launched Aug 2015
Tacx NEO 2 Smart: The second edition (duh), launched Nov 2018
Tacx NEO 2T Smart: They added a T to the name, launched Sept 2019
Tacx NEO 2 SE: What I’m about to explain to you, launched late 2020

All three of these look virtually identical from the outside, save slightly different color and ‘paint’ schemes. Internally there are substantial differences between each edition, each tackling various complaints or features.

The main difference between the NEO 2 and the NEO 2T though is largely getting rid of ‘virtual slip’ when you throw-down a sprint in a low-speed setting (like up a climb). The first two editions would feel like you slipped on a rug, with the resistance emptying out beneath you. Though again, this wasn’t a huge issue for most people, since it only applied in very specific scenarios that frankly weren’t super common in most peoples day to day riding (I still ride the Tacx NEO 2 at home as my main trainer for night/weekends riding – and it simply doesn’t impact me at all). Tacx accomplished this by basically substantially increasing the power of the electromagnet scheme inside the NEO 2T, so much so that upon initial launch it was so powerful that it was like riding an uncontrollable bull. A few months later firmware updates resolved that.

image

In aaannnnny case, that doesn’t matter here.

What matters here is this new fangled NEO 2 SE. Folks started asking me about a month ago what the heck it was. And at first I figured it was just retailers with weird names on their site. However, there is actually a difference – despite the SKU number (the T28##) remaining the same.

image

Turns out, the SE actually stands for ‘Special Edition’. And why is it special? Glad you asked.

Simply put, the Tacx NEO 2 SE is a Tacx NEO 2 internally, except that it has the axle of a Tacx NEO 2T. In talking to Garmin/Tacx about it, they said they had a stockpile of NEO 2-specific (non-2T) components, but that consumers wanted the increased out of box axle compatibility of the NEO 2T (which added native thru-axle compatibility, such as for 142/148 x 12 mm).

But there’s no other internal or external changes beyond that. It’s not hiding a NEO 2T magnet system inside of it, and in fact from the outside looks identical to the Tacx NEO 2. There’s no NEO 2T racing stripe here.

DSC_6099

(Left to right: Tacx NEO 1, Tacx NEO 2/NEO 2SE, Tacx NEO 2T)

The next question then is where is this being sold? Well at present, mostly just in Europe. Garmin/Tacx says that there isn’t a decision on whether this will end up being a long term product or not, or just more of an interim product. Of course, it’s supported just the same, so there are no concerns there. But I had asked whether or not we’d see this become more widely available, to which they said “essentially we’re not going to rule it in or out”.

One notable thing here is that the NEO 2SE is slightly cheaper than the NEO 2T, usually about 100-200EUR in most cases. But it’s also slightly more expensive than the now-impossible-to-find NEO 2 units (also usually 100-200EUR difference in price). Ultimately, the only Tacx trainers anyone is going to find to buy these days are ones coming directly off a truck from Tacx’s manufacturing facilities.

Also, fun fact – the NEO 2SE is produced in their massive new manufacturing facility that recently opened up, whereas the NEO 2T was, in late 2020, produced primarily at their existing manufacturing facility. However, as of 2021 it’s also now being produced in the new factory too, partially why you’ve seen availability increase lately.

For fun, here’s a picture of the new facility from the highway that my wife snapped. The building goes further to the right, and has nifty windows that you can see into the factory area a bit from the highway.

clip_image001

Maybe someday I’ll be able to give an updated behind the scenes of the new factory. Until then, you can check out my older behind the scenes post on the original (and still used) factory here. Umm…errr…on second thought I can’t find me ever actually posting all those behind the scenes factory photos. Though, I did find them on my NAS server – all 513 photos worth in fact – some 22.2GB:

image

But GPLama apparently finished his video on that, so here’s that instead.

Ultimately, I suspect that Tacx may look to test the pricing waters a bit with the NEO 2SE. While at the moment anything that vaguely works as an indoor trainer will sell immediately for just about any price – but eventually that’ll end. And at present Tacx doesn’t really have a great silent competitor to the Wahoo KICKR CORE at the $899 price point (the Tacx Flux 2 is the same rough price but with far more sound). I could see them offering a Tacx NEO Lite (or whatever you want to call it) at $899 by taking a page from Wahoo’s playbook. After all, remember the KICKR CORE is essentially just a 2017 KICKR with new legs.

And unlike most Garmin situations where they have the upper hand, from a branding standpoint, to sell at a premium, they actually don’t have that luxury here competing against Wahoo (again, talking branding). Thus, they’ll have to compete on price and features – just like any other company.

In any case, ponderings for another day.

The Tacx Smart Bike:

TacxNEOBike

This section will be shorter, I promise.

Over the last week I’d gotten a number of people, including some real-life friends, asking if the Tacx NEO Smart Bike had been discontinued, since it was becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to find. Compounding this was Garmin.com was now listing availability as Q3 2021! Which, is basically this summer (or beyond).

image

So, I swung back to Garmin again and asked whether the NEO Bike was still being produced, and here’s their response:

“Just to confirm, we are very much still producing the Neo Bike. But – as I’m sure you can imagine – demand continues to be high, with supply and the new factory trying to keep up.”

He went on to explain that they were being ultra-conservative with the Garmin.com date, because Garmin specifically will prioritize fulfillment from retailers/distributors over Garmin.com fulfillment. In fact, you’ll see you can’t even order it on Garmin.com currently.

To long-time Garmin watchers, you’ll know this is actually nothing new. Garmin has long done this as a way to keep retailers/distributors happy, thus why you’ll often see far-out dates on many new products on Garmin.com – despite it being in a store near you.

In fact, if I look around at some random European retailers, I do see a few cases of upcoming Tacx NEO Bike Smart shipments expected in the near term with very specific dates. And as Garmin noted, they are still producing these, now within the new manufacturing facility.

Ultimately, smart bike availability isn’t much different than trainers these days: It’s tough. And in fact, in many ways it’s way more challenging since the manufacturing process is far more complicated and they simply can’t make the same numbers of units. Right now I’ve heard wait times for the Wattbike ATOM 2020 are measured in multiple months, the Wahoo KICKR Bike is occasionally available (including right now for US folks), and the Stages Bike SB20 seems to fluctuate in and out of availability. And of course the Peloton Bike also has a long waiting list – months in many cases. But those availabilities are highly geographic in nature, what’s available in the US almost never matches availability in Europe for smart bikes right now.

As for new smart bikes this year? Seems unlikely to me. I could see perhaps small in-line changes to existing bikes, such as new handlebar type arrangements or accessories. But realistically speaking, most of these companies are *still* trying to stabilize their factories and fulfillment of the current slate of models. There’s little reason to launch a new model just for the fun of it.

Oh – and one last thing: As for when Zwift steering will come to the Tacx NEO Bike? Garmin/Tacx says “we don’t have anything to announce at this time.” This could be for any number of reasons, though, I suspect Zwift licensing/agreement factors may be at play here. Throwing the way-back machine on for a second, for years Tacx (pre-Garmin) Tacx had talked about using the buttons to steer in Zwift. So this is unlikely to be a purely technical limiter.

As I mentioned in yesterday’s Zwift/KICKR Bike post, there are contractual aspects that Zwift has been requiring trainer/indoor bike companies to agree to prior to accessing the steering spec. This includes, most notably, limitations on these vendors allowing their products to work with other platforms (such as RGT). In other words, Zwift wants steering to only be viable in Zwift. Given Tacx has a training platform of their own, it’s plausible that could be a sticking point. Or, like most trainer companies, they’re probably not terribly keen on having Zwift call the shots on platform compatibility of their own products.

With that – have a good weekend ahead, and thanks for reading!

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89 Comments

  1. Neil

    You have real life friends too??.

    Thanks for the updates .The wait time on these bikes is even more reason to wait for the 2nd Gen’.

  2. James

    Is that new factory a reason why Tacx seems to be getting back in stock here (Canada) faster than most competing brands? I think you’ve made a comment before on how Peloton has the largest manufacturing footprint – but how do the other companies generally compare?

  3. brian

    Isn’t requiring a company to limit compatibility with competitors along the exact same anti-competitive business practice that the EU is going after Google?

    Google – requires Android vendors, among other things, to not fork Android, and if they do they cannot have access to Google Play Services

    Zwift – requiring trainer/indoor bike companies to agree to prior to limitations on allowing their products to work with other platforms (such as RGT)

  4. Andrew Linquist

    Interestingly enough, a Garmin.com online chat representative told me something completely different about the Tacx Bike Smart 3-4 weeks ago. He specifically said they were addressing quality control issues (such as the belt breaking) with the bike and wouldn’t be shipping any until August. Of course you likely have a much better placed source than I did, but we were told 2 totally different things by people working for the same company.

    • Yeah, I’m getting information directly from the division manage of Cycling at Garmin, alongside the person in charge of engineering efforts at Tacx.

      It’s plausible they’re lying, but honestly, I’ve never seen these two lie to me in many…many years. If they can’t comment on something for a public quote, they’ll simply say so (as they did for steering).

    • Garmin support just told me the same, they can’t replace my snapped belt purely because the product is discontinued.

      They offered to replace my Neo Bike with a 2T refurb after 2.5 months of use!

    • This was the RMA they offered me, I further clarified stating I didn’t have a neo direct drive to which they said the bike was discontinued.

      I’m unclear is the ‘Neo 2 type 2’ also new?

  5. Doron

    “Pant” scheme? did you mean Paint?

  6. Erin Kirsten

    Patiently waiting for that tacx bike to finally be available to order again… the wait is never ending…

    • Indeed. I noticed that Mantel has it slated to arrive the first week of Feb. That’s been pretty consistent, and given they’re a pretty substantial retailer in the NL, my guess is their inventory/stock details are probably accurate.

  7. Simon

    Wiggle appeared to have some UK stock of the Tacx bike earlier this week as I had a stock notification on them. They were gone within a few minutes though.

  8. Dave Lusty

    WOW! I was offered this a year ago when my Neo 2 went wrong (cadence sensor “broke” after firmware update). I turned it down because I was worried about resale value of a weird hybrid monster version of Neo and they upgraded me to 2T as they had no standard Neo 2 stock. I guess they must have had a bunch of parts spare to eventually make a real product. Imagine someone a year ago offering you a “Neo 2 but it’s got the new 2t axle, it’s totally legit, trust me bro!”. Needless to say it did not feel legit!

  9. Tommy

    I find the steering update worrying. As a consumer I want a bike that’s cross compatible. Yes I use zwift and clearly that’s the biggest base and priority. But if my tacx bike has functionality locked to zwift, I might as well have a zwift bike when they release it. Why would tacx do that?

    I get it. Its business and it’s how peleton work. Zwift no doubt taking a cue from there.

    Not good news for consumers

  10. jww

    “…Garmin specifically will prioritize fulfillment from retailers/distributors over Garmin.com fulfillment. In fact, you’ll see you can’t even order it on Garmin.com currently.

    To long-time Garmin watchers, you’ll know this is actually nothing new. Garmin has long done this as a way to keep retailers/distributors happy”

    This is one of the biggest reasons to root for Garmin IMO. They just seem to be good people that put their customers and partners first.

    Contrast this partner strategy with a certain action camera manufacturer who actually sells products $50 cheaper on their dotcom than Bestbuys and bike shops can sell under MAP.

    *****

    And while a slight topic pivot, Garmin opens up ANT+ radar support to competitor head units — Because human life is more important than shipping a few more Edge units.

    Contrast THAT with a certain trainer manufacturer that yanked plans for KICKR CLIMB support for Tacx the second Garmin acquired them. No corresponding safety benefit there.

    I’ll always root for Garmin when they do things like this.

  11. Do you know the Zycle bike? 1249€ price.

  12. Zach

    I gave up hope of the steering buttons on my Neo Bike ever working in Zwift when it became clear Zwift was working on their own. Just hoping my Neo Bike lasts until the Zwift Bike. Otherwise, I’ve got a 2T on standby.

  13. James Eastwood

    Are you sure that Zwift have said they will only enable steering if the hardware manufacturer only makes it available for Zwift?

    • Dan

      Wow, that is incredible. What anti-competitive behavior. As a stages bike owner, I hope stages doesn’t give in to this demand.

      I’ve recently been toying with RGT after riding Zwift from the very beginning. (I remember the first time I saw over 25 riders on the course and was amazed!). This news was enough to make me cancel my zwift subscription tonight. RGT needs work, but happy to support some viable competition.

    • beppo

      this is no good indeed.
      more so that they are also acting monopolistically towards other training platforms…
      do you think wahoo accepted not integrating steering ever into SUF?
      and why do you reference specifically RGT, do they see them as their biggest threat?
      (as i would agree they are)

    • “do you think wahoo accepted not integrating steering ever into SUF?”

      Not sure. Some of the agreements had time provisions in them, so maybe they (as others) did the math and figured by time someone else got steering in, the timing would expire.

      Of course, that’s mostly a chicken and the egg thing.

    • usr

      That last paragraph definitely made me start feeling bad about giving Zwift any money. And that behavior doesn’t even seem to me entirely out of character for them, in my eyes (nose?) Zwift always came with a bit of a rotten smell, always felt a little too hungry (all those radical strategy shifts whenever investor money runs out and revenue again hasn’t caught up to ever growing expenses).

      And I desperately wanted to give them a chance, because all that immateriality of virtual cycling absolutely *needs* getting compensated by a shared world. I don’t mind virtual community rides (neither keyboard nor voice chat works well when suffering on the Neo), but recognizing my peers’ Watopia loops on my Strava feed makes my own Watopia loops feel slightly less unreal. This part of making indoor cycling less terrible simply won’t work if there is a multitude of competitors. I wanted to forgive Zwift many things in exchange for having a de-facto standard of indoor cycling worlds, but moves like that steering protocol shit really question wether Zwift should be allowed to be “the one”:

      On to more positive stories: reading of that new Tacx factory made me realize just how much I have become a “Garmin person”. It’s simply nice to see a tech gadget company commit so deeply to not outsourcing manufacturing to faceless “building stuff as a service” suppliers and instead keeping it in-house (in this case even in-country, but that’s not my point at all). Compared to the “Foxconn model” it almost feels like artisanal engineering. When the Garmin/Tacx thing happened they surely must have recognized each other as members of the same endangered species.

      Nimble companies like Hammerhead who follow the model of “small office defining their product as the thinnest possible shell over faceless manufacturing” have their appeal as well, but increasingly I feel like those trying it the hard way with a company structure not too different from 19th century industrial pioneers are deserving my respect (and money) far more.

    • beppo

      “When the Garmin/Tacx thing happened they surely must have recognized each other as members of the same endangered species.”

      agreed there is definitely value in that.
      you must be driving a tesla? and like musk: ” Now let me just break it to the fools out there.
      If you don’t make stuff, there’s no stuff… ” link to rev.com Elon Musk: (01:21:38)

  14. Sorry, I’m going to be “that guy” again. Opening para, “ Tacx NEO Smart Bike’s.” Should be just “Bikes” – no apostrophe.

  15. DLinLV

    Maybe I’m waiting on a N2SE. My N1 died and support is giving me a N2 for 700.00 and trade my dead N1.
    They received my N1 in late December but I’m waiting for replacement to ship.
    They charged my card last week and again this week (pending), so I would have expected something to ship by now. I will give it until early next week before I go postal. Or is it capitol? 🙂

    Hope something ships before it warms here.

    • Wouter

      in the same boat as you. N1 died within warranty period, mid December. Still waiting for a replacement, early March…

  16. Mohamed Nassar

    Well, retailers claim that Neo 2 SE doesn’t need external power, just as the Neo 2T, mine should arrive today *fingers crossed*

  17. Jason

    Very interesting comments about the Neo Smart Bike. Mine went back in December under warranty beginning of December and have now been told the replacement will be end March. (Originally told beg January) Do you think this is actually likely to be end of the summer? Unfortunately Garmin UK customer service is very poor and you get told a different story each time you call.

  18. IanJH

    My Neo 2 just went up in smoke yesterday – as in real smoke coming out of it. Garmin/Tacx agreed to swap it out…..wonder what I’ll get back?

    • Would be interested to hear!

    • RaulV

      Re: Neo storing <>
      Inbox

      product.support@garmin.com
      do 12 nov. 2020 14:44
      aan mij

      Hoi Raul,

      Laten we niet vallen over de inhoud van het vervangen en/of repareren.

      Wij als Garmin/Tacx bieden geen reparaties uit. Zoals aangegeven kunnen wij de NEO omruilen voor een NEO 2.

      Dit voor het genoemde bedrag van € 742,99.

      Wij horen graag of u hier wel of geen gebruik van wilt maken.

      Bij akkoord ontvang u een UPS label met ophaalfunctie die u zelf kunt inplannen. Het omruilen kan tot 3 a 4 weken duren.

      Wij leveren geen tijdelijke toestellen voor de tussenliggende periode.

      If there is anything else I can help you with then please let me know.

      Kind regards,

      Tacx support team

      Bart

      They’re 35 min. !! away from where I live!!!
      I consider this as having to buy a new car when it needs a replacement exhaust pipe.
      The day the warranty expires your device’s value goes down for say 30-40%.
      While its life expectancy is 4-5x longer than the warranty period.

    • RaulV

      That’s the problem I had. Found more on internet.
      Another case is the Neo 2(T?) bearings ‘gate’…..
      And then there’s the extraction or something tool that doubled in price. Which was corrected after heavy protests but then became unavailable within weeks.
      Which shows that not only do they not want to repair themselves they’re also obstructing it being done by others. (fortunately workarounds for that).

    • I think if one actually looks into the details of the so-called bearing-gate, they’ll find just…a lot of smoke.

      As for not having a tool at launch…they’ve never had the removal tools at launch. They’ve also followed later, because frankly there was no need to have tools at launch because bearings are a long-term issue. Anything short-term was being handled via normal warranty swappages. And since that was peak-COVID Wave 1, it was pretty low on their priority list versus getting trainers out the door.

      Sometimes, there’s no conspiracy theories.

    • RaulV

      bearings: I cannot judge. I just watched video’s of someone sounding like knowing what he was talking about….. And I think there was some hard data in it. Even on Tacx admitting they didn’t know a cause… (if I remember correctly)
      tool: not talking about beginning. Necessity: wasn’t it you that posted a problem solving vid where it was used? Then Shane.
      But this were some extra illustrations of Tacx (more Garmin really) service. It’s about the Neo!!!
      Conspiracies? Too fashionable term.
      It’s about clumpsy functioning, always something the matter and outright arrogance of manufacturers !!
      I do notice examples all the time. Not seldom incredible. Am I the only one that is irritated by the fact Fenixes don’t count steps when the wearer connects a strap or footpod and isn’t wearing the watch? How logic is it to let it switch to external sensors automatically? Or have the user determine a preference schedule.
      Or the stupid speed indication by tempo…..it’s 2021!!!! All this mass manipulation, maintaining the vicious circle at least let me choose this once and forever. I’m no sheep, I think for myself!

    • “I cannot judge. I just watched video’s of someone sounding like knowing what he was talking about”

      “I’m no sheep, I think for myself!”

      😉

      But that’s my point. You watched a video about stock bearings supposedly being bad…done by a guy that has a side business selling fancier bearings.

      (To be clear – I think he does great work in many other areas, I simply just disagree with this being a ‘sky is falling’ type of situation of that singular video.)

    • RaulV

      I remember the problem is the bearings are the best around but it’s unclear what makes them wear faster than normal.
      Again, it’s not the problem I have so only listened half while doing something else.. probably training.
      I can only choose to have a €100-150 repair done by paying €750. While my copy is years away from the end of its life cycle. (easily 10 years)|
      Tacx is not making service doc available nor spare parts.
      It seems the service quite differs from place to place. Though might be old situations… I’d advise owners approaching EOW to check their supplier. Or sent the device in with ‘disappearance of resistance, smoke and unpleasant smell’ problem description.

  19. Nuno P.

    shame on zwift

  20. Quick question. Are those rubber feet on the NEO adjustable? My basement concrete slab is not completely flat (old house) and not having adjustable feet makes setting it up quite a pain.

  21. David

    Does the SE version play nicely with a frame having a flat mount rear caliper?

    I fitted a specialized diverge to Neo 2 only to find the rear caliper touches the body of the Neo.

    The “engineering fix”, change a spacer to force open the triangle on the frame ….erm, no.

    Gave up with the diverge and went back to my old litespeed.

  22. Jürg1

    In terms of the steering feature in Zwift and what that would be in the future(2-5years), would you consider buying a smart bike today(if one could get hold of one) to be something to regret?
    Since the price is comparable to a decent real bike it is somewhat of an investment.
    For me living in the nordic region, indoor cycling is important in the winter along with Zwift and racing etc.

    • beppo

      if i’m not mistaken keith wakeham hacked the sterzo: link to titanlab.co so in theory anyone could integrate it if they really wanted

    • “would you consider buying a smart bike today(if one could get hold of one) to be something to regret?”

      I’d say that folks looking at smart bikes today should be folks that are comfortable knowing their smart bikes will probably make them sigh in 2 years, specifically financially.

      Meaning, all of these bike are V1, and all of them are likely to improve dramatically with V2. And I suspect none of these companies will come out with a major revamp until Zwift announces their Zwift bike (probably sometime later this year). When Zwift actually manages to deliver that bike is anyone’s guess (I’d bet no earlier than spring 2022). Invariably, that bike will have unique features in it (Eric Min has said as such). Whether those features prevent wanted value…no idea.

  23. Gareth

    I don’t actually care about steering on my Kickr Bike but that news made me mad and I cancelled and deleted my Zwift subscription and account today. I’m on RGT 14 day trial. I’ll tell you how it goes…

  24. Rich

    Hi Ray, have you done any testing/come across the MagneticDays trainers (eg JARVIS or their bike) – not sure I’ve seen any reviews/posts on your site on them? thanks

    • I saw it about a year or so ago.

      I guess to me it honestly doesn’t pass the industry sniff test. Meaning, that as one that tests trainers day in and day out, year after year – it’s surprisingly difficult for huge companies with tons of resources to get highly accurate trainers. Incredibly challenging, with the smartest people out there.

      So when a relative unknown comes along and say they’ve created this magic perfect trainer, I kinda have my doubts, especially they talk of magic connected clouds and such but don’t mention a single standard trainer protocol.

      Just my two cents…
      (and, as always, more than happy to be proven wrong here

    • Rich

      many thanks – makes sense.

  25. Eoc

    Hi,
    I’ve had the Neo2T for over a year now. It was said at the time that they would have “exciting” features/updates coming and that the new hardware was partially to allow that. I am still waiting with baited breath to see what exciting new features will be coming. Do you know anything about that?
    Thanks

  26. Neo

    I am currently driving the Neo1.
    he runs and runs (3 years)
    Only the comparison values when driving between Garmin Vector3 pedals and the Neo do not match. Deviations up to 8%.
    I am waiting for smart trainers with correct values and a direct USB connection.
    Tacx neo 3 ??

    • It’s exceedingly rate for a NEO series train to be out of whack accuracy-wise, even a Gen1. I’d recommend looking at the calibration of your Vector pedals (as well as ensuring things like crank length are correct).

    • Neorc

      Thank you. Before every ride, I calibrate the pedals on my Edge. I also reset the mounting bracket. The crank length is set correctly. Are there any other solutions?

  27. Hobe Scholz

    Any comment from Garmin as to why the miles logged on the expensive TACX NeoBike through Zwift no longer count towards Garmin Connect Challenges? It’s not like the NeoBike can upload on it’s own.

  28. Jim

    I am looking to purchase a Neo 2T Smart. However, can you comment if the recently manufactured Neo 2T Smart trainers are produced with updated bearings. I see a number of posts related to bad bearings within the Neo 2T Smart trainers. On another note…any idea when a Neo 3 will be released.

  29. João Antunes

    Hi,

    How do I know if I am buying the Tacx Neo 2 SE or the older one Tacx Neo 2? Is there a way to tell the difference?

    Best regards,

  30. RaulV

    What a free publicity for a company that leaves you in the desert if your trainer breaks down outside warranty!!! They don’t even bother about legislation…… Well I’m going to get them….. These Garmin suckers will have to obey local laws.
    ‘getting rid of ‘virtual slip’ when you throw-down a sprint in a low-speed setting (like up a climb)’ maybe this design fault caused my breaking down!!! But they don’t even want to know what your problem is….

    • I don’t follow? Garmin supports all Tacx products, no matter how old. Seriously, this is well discussed before – many times over. If beyond the 2-year Tacx warranty period, then Garmin support will cover you for a flat-rate fee. Just like basically every other company out there.

      Do you have a specific support case ID to the contrary?

    • RaulV

      Re: Neo storing <>
      Inbox

      product.support@garmin.com
      do 12 nov. 2020 14:44
      aan mij

      Hoi Raul,

      Laten we niet vallen over de inhoud van het vervangen en/of repareren.

      Wij als Garmin/Tacx bieden geen reparaties uit. Zoals aangegeven kunnen wij de NEO omruilen voor een NEO 2.

      Dit voor het genoemde bedrag van € 742,99.

      Wij horen graag of u hier wel of geen gebruik van wilt maken.

      Bij akkoord ontvang u een UPS label met ophaalfunctie die u zelf kunt inplannen. Het omruilen kan tot 3 a 4 weken duren.

      Wij leveren geen tijdelijke toestellen voor de tussenliggende periode.

      If there is anything else I can help you with then please let me know.

      Kind regards,

      Tacx support team

      Bart

      They’re 35 min. !! away from where I live!!!
      I consider this as having to buy a new car when it needs a replacement exhaust pipe.
      The day the warranty expires your device’s value goes down for say 30-40%.
      While its life expectancy is 4-5x longer than the warranty period.

    • That does seem excessive. How old was your original NEO and what was wrong with it?

    • RaulV

      It was 3 years or so when it broke down. Didn’t use it for pratically a year. Then I bought a ‘disc’ remover tool so I could open it. Found nothing. Then removed half of the casing. (don’t remember if that will only work with disc removed) Removed dust from the fans. Wasn’t much but cannot exclude I made a stuck fan run again though didn’t feel like that.
      Then it worked again!!
      Great service by Tacx! Gulp…. They wanted me to pay € 740….
      I think there’s been a led warning before it broke down. But these leds (still?!) are on a very stupid place. And the colours mix up so you can have pink which isn’t in the problem list. Don’t remember how I got that. I think it’s very hidden!

  31. Martin

    Its because the activity sub-type “Virtual Cycling” doesn’t count towards the badges or challenges. Indoor Cycling does.

    If you have your Garmin account linked to Zwift, then the automatic uploads will come in as “Virtual Cycling”.

  32. DLinLV

    Looks like my replacement for my dead N1 will be a N2SE. If it ever ships.

    • RaulV

      A refurbished one within warranty? Is that possible, lawwise? What about warranty on it? (they never told me, neither about the r.f.b. aspect, got that from a fellow victim)
      Why sceptical about shipping?
      I wonder how big the r.f.b. stock is…..

  33. Jack

    If Zwift is trying to prevent other companies from making steering compatible on other platforms then #*$&! them. I’m really grateful Garmin is resisting that. I was starting to look into getting a Wahoo bike, but I’ve been a big Garmin user for a long time and now that I read that I’ll definitely lean toward the Garmin bike. I’m a current Garmin Desktop premium subscriber. I was going to try out Zwift, but I think you just convinced me not to. RGT is great, and I’ll be thrilled when steering shows up there. Zwift needs to try to succeed on their own merits, not by kneecapping their competitors.

  34. Marcel

    I would be really interested if Garmin/Tacx are working on making the unit more reliable. My Neo2 burned out end of November and I am waiting for a replacement. I have since seen so many posts describing the same failure on Neo2 and 2T, even repeat failures on replacement units, it really makes me worry that there is a serious design or quality flaw. Garmin’s slogan is “Built to last”, are they keeping up with their product promise when customers have to pay hundreds of £€$ for a repair when their £1000 turbo breaks just after the warranty expired?

  35. James

    Hi Ray,
    Could you clarify something – it seem like you are saying the Neo 2 SE will have the vitual slip issue that was the cause of Tacx to release a Neo 2T.

    Here in Switzerland they are charging the same for a Neo 2 SE as they do for a Neo 2T. When they are both at the same price point it doesn’t seem right to charge the same for an inferior product.

    If you were buying would you pay as much for a Neo 2 SE as the Neo 2T?

    At the moment I can get an in stock Neo 2 SE for 1500 CHF or wait an indeterminate amount of time for a Neo 2T at the same price). Or get a Kickr core for 949 CHF – decisions decisions 🙂

    Thanks for all the hard work you do!

  36. Andrew

    I have owned Tacx trainers from the Fortius, Genius and now on the Neo 1 which I have used for the last 4 years and it’s still going strong. If it ever dies I feel that taking on the latest Neo or Neo bike would be nothing more than a headache.I think now Garmin are in the mix it’s all about $$ and not quality. I will be looking at Stages SB20. Stages customer service is second to none. I had a sb20 on trial for a month and it was a great machine and the service from Stages and my LBS was far better than what Garmin offer

  37. Niels

    Hi
    Is there an update about these trainers? Maybe een Neo 3 for this winter?
    I read a lot about the problems with the axles of the Neo 2T and bearing problems.

    • I wouldn’t expect any trainer announcements till late summer/early fall.

      As for supposed NEO 2T bearing/axle problems, I don’t think we’re seeing anything unusual there. Given there’s virtually no discussion of it (actual consumer issues, not just speculation) on either of my NEO 2/2T in-depth review posts, it’s a pretty good indicator that in a year where more trainers than ever before have sold…that there probably isn’t actually an issue.

    • Darth Lord

      Original Neo Smart Owner here, it is still working but it is beginning to show its age.

      With that said, like many others, I think that Neo 2T does not offer enough of a difference and improvement to warrant an upgrade. Let us hope that the Neo 3 (if that is the name) shows up in a couple of months and offers enough of an improvement for me to buy it.

    • Steph

      It seems like there’s a fix for the bearing issue- at least now they’ve worked out a way to replace them without having to send the unit out for 2 months: link to support.garmin.com

    • Niels

      Still no information about a Neo 3 or something? Next month im gonna buy a direct drive trainer, but if there is a new one in the pipeline, im waiting.

    • CowRob

      Why ask?

      Buy from a vendor that allows you to return it and be happy, just in case. Plus, point to me a new trainer that hasn’t had a ton of issues out of the gate. The 2T had some really serious issues as I remember. I’d get the 2T and be happy that it’s not a ‘3T’, if one ships at all soon…

      Plus there is a lot of 2T stock out there to be had, so they (and their resellers) would take a hit on all that stock at the beginning of ‘Trainer Season’. I’d be surprised at a totally new Neo since there has been no leaks so far. They did release the 2/2T hybrid, but can that be called ‘new’?

      But the beginning of ‘Trainer Season’ would be a perfect time to release a product people wouldn’t be able to get in time to ride during the season, and if they could, would be constantly complaining about all of the new trainer issues.

      Having been the victim once so far of having to have ‘the new hotness’, I wouldn’t be lining up for the next new Neo trainer. Just saying. (Unless you like being a beta tester)

    • Niels

      You’re right Rob

      But in the Netherlands they are giving some discount on a new 2T. So maybe there’s a 3T or something coming.

    • CowRob

      My experience is from the IT world, and reps will ‘lie’ to you about a new gizmo potentially coming out in the near future. They will state there isn’t one coming out soon, or deny features that end up in the gizmo that is released the next week.

      Having a sale isn’t an indication that the units are about to be demoted, but literally anything is possible. They could have a 2T+ ready to ship tomorrow, but likely wouldn’t mention anything about it until the day. Some corporations are different, but many like to play cat and mouse with fans and the media. Apple is possibly an exception. In the 80’a and 90’s, people rarely had proven pre-release information on their products, and those that claimed they did, were occasionally wrong. Now, the rumors are usually dead on. Kinda boring…

      IBM, back in the mainframe days used to pre-announce products and enhancements months, and years in some cases, in advance, but they were in a different industry with a different market. They *had* to lie to keep their customer base. There was a fairly clean joke about an IBM salesperson getting married: He sat in the edge of the bed telling his new wife how great the sex was going to be, in 8 months.

      Who knows, Garmin/Tacx could pop out a 2T+, or a 3T, or a Smart Bike Plus in minutes. (Nope, maybe tomorrow?) If you are basing your sole decision on *if* they release a new one, you are going to be likely waiting a long time.

      I believe that the 2T was shown at EuroBike before it was released. I don’t remember hearing anything about any new trainers from there this year. *shrug* If it’s on sale, GRAB ONE! If they come out with the next model before you can return that, return it. Just stop waiting, and get riding! 🙂

    • Given the huge supply chain constraints, I wouldn’t expect much in the way of new hardware. Typically if companies have confidence for a fall launch, they’ll do so at/by Eurobike or Interbike (and there’s no longer Interbike).

      None did.

      Companies are simply trying to keep the ship together ahead of another busy shift to an indoor training. Given companies can sell basically anything they make right now, there’s little reason to risk that with a new model in the (heavy/big) trainer/bike world that might have issues, especially with container costs 400% higher than a year ago.

    • CowRob

      What he said…

      It sounds like a good time to buy some shipping containers?

  38. Mike

    Have there been any updates (or even rumors) about the Neo Bike availability from Garmin? I checked with support and they couldn’t give me any update beyond the “Q3 2021” that’s been on the product page all year, just saying they’re made overseas and shipping is delayed due to current world events.

    • CowRob

      I got one at REI. It’s the ‘new’ model, at least has the fixes people have talked about.

      DC also has a stock notification system that helped me know who had it.

      Either keep checking your favorite online bike shop, or sign up for the stock tracker. It’s believed that Garmin isn’t selling direct yet to protect their dealer network.