Squeaking in just under the wire for the 2018 Trainer Guide is the just announced Tacx NEO 2 Smart Trainer, the successor to the top of the line and now three-year-old Tacx NEO Trainer. This new model brings a handful of improvements, including new pedal stroke analysis, left/right balance transmission, and better internals, including components that are supposed to open the door to new features in the future.
Albeit, unspecified new features. But like seeing unknown wrapped presents under a Christmas tree, it’s still a present nonetheless. Or feature(s), as it may be.
The unit maintains all the things folks have loved about the NEO in the past including the virtually silent operation and the beast of a virtual flywheel to be able to replicate just about any wattage or incline. Though, as you likely visually noted by now – the color scheme has changed slightly to adopt the usual Tacx blue as the underside of the TIE-fighter trainer.
If you want the one-stop shop video, then look no further than my first test ride on it. From unboxing to riding with pumpkins, it’s all here:
With that, let’s dive into all the differences.
What’s different:
In many ways, as is the theme of most new trainers the last few years – the changes are more evolutionary than revolutionary. In fact, it’s somewhat difficult to show any of the major changes visually at this point. A lot of them are setting the stage for future features/changes, some of which are unannounced.
To start, let’s recap what the NEO is – since none of these things change:
– Direct drive trainer: This means you remove your rear wheel – Flywheel: It has a virtual flywheel up to 125kg, the largest of any trainer on the market. – Cassette: No Tacx trainers include a cassette, which will set you back $50-$60, plus $10-$20 in tools to install. – Sound: Identical to the original NEO, essentially silent. Only the sound of your drivetrain is heard, and a very faint hum of internal fans/electronics. – Handle and Folding: This unit lacks a handle, which continues to make it slightly awkward to move around. It does have foldable legs though for easy storage. – Protocol Compatibility: ANT+ FE-C, ANT+ Power, Bluetooth Smart Trainer Control, Bluetooth Smart Power – App Compatibility: Every app out there basically (Zwift, TrainerRoad, Rouvy, Road Grand Tours, SufferFest, Kinomap, etc…) – Skewer Compatibility: All the skewers and adapters you could ask for: Road 130mm, MTB 135mm, 142x12mm, 148x12mm – Max Incline: 25% simulated grade, the highest of any trainer out there – Max Wattage: 2,200 watts resistance – Stated Accuracy: < +/-1% – Power Cable Required: No, it can operate powered or standalone sans-power. – Pricing and Availability: $1,399/€1,299/£1,199 Shipping next week.
Ok, so as seen above, that’s the baseline and basically the same as the NEO 1. However, here’s what’s new/unique on the new NEO 2:
– Added pedal stroke analysis: Will plot out full pedal stroke, akin to some power meters. This was added to a degree last December in a firmware update for NEO 1 users, however, the internal changes for NEO 2 makes this more accurate. Additionally, this will also be broadcast to 3rd party apps for NEO 2.
– Added left/right balance information: Will show distribution of power between legs, as well as broadcast this to 3rd party apps.
– Increased cadence accuracy: Uses new magnetless object detection (more on that in a second)
– New microcontroller and additional memory: This will improve ERG control Tacx says, and reduce vibrations
– New communications controller: This will improve firmware update, and allows faster communication with apps (which would likely be used for real-time pedaling analysis)
– Added extra axle adapters: A full bag of them as seen in video
– New underside color: Blue versus previously black, also changed frontside text logo color to blue
– Added internals for future features: None of which have been announced
As you can see, most of the changes are internal. Kinda like this year’s new iPhone’s, the changes aren’t really in new or exciting features, but mostly updating internal tech. The one big notable change is around the new pedal and stroke analysis features. The aim for this is to be able to create the various stroke analysis plots that you may have seen with certain power meters as well as some older trainers like the CompuTrainer.
To do so the company has created a magnetless cadence detection system inside the NEO that can detect objects passing by both sides of it. While it can detect all sorts of objects, the strongest object that passes by each pedal stroke is the spindle of the pedal, which allows them to start tracking the stroke and exact angle measurements. See the right side below of this screenshot from Tacx.
Above is a screenshot of how it looks in the Tacx Desktop Software, though the company says other 3rd party apps will support it soon, and some of the metrics will also show up in protocols that support it (like the ANT+ power specification, likely including the new cycling dynamics specification). That means it’d work on your normal head units as well. Both Garmin and Wahoo have plans to support that updated specification once released.
Finally, there are features which aren’t yet announced (I don’t know them either) that Tacx plans to implement using the updated technology inside the NEO 2. If you remember, Tacx actually rolled out pretty substantial features to the NEO 1 over the course of the years. First was the road feel components about a year later, and then quite a ways after that was the Isokinetic modes. So the company does have a history of interesting new features later down the road.
First Ride:
Now, I just got this trainer. Like…yesterday dinner-time type “just got”. It’s breakfast time now. So my time is limited to a single ride since then. And Tacx also noted before they dropped it off that there’s some final software bits coming in the next few days that’ll improve accuracy in certain high power scenarios. Also, they noted the fan gets its software updated to reduce the noise and run-time length.
Still, with that out of the way, I got things all hooked up and plugged into Zwift…for what would be my fourth trainer ride of the day.
Within Zwift, I went ahead and paired up the trainer. Quick and easy via Bluetooth Smart since I was on a Mac. If I was on a PC or with a bike computer I could have used ANT+ easily as well, via ANT+ FE-C.
Once that was done, off I went. Watopia was the course du jour. Pumpkins included.
From there it was riding time. And to be honest, it basically just felt the same as any other ride on a Tacx NEO 1, except now it’s called NEO 2.
Like with the original NEO you get the road feels as well. So when I hit the wooden planks I got the feeling and slight sound of wooden planks. As with before, it’s super cool.
There is a small software bug where the road terrain for ‘dirt’ doesn’t do its thing correctly, so the sound/feeling is off. In talking with Tacx, that’s simply a software timing item that they’ll be correcting shortly. The way the NEO’s work to simulate various road terrains (cobblestones, wood planks, concrete sidewalks, etc…) is by ever so slightly stuttering the flywheel by a few milliseconds. When done correctly, it’s fantastically cool. But timing is everything, so a minor software bug simply just sounds weird if the timing is off. Again, I’m definitely not worried about this.
Anyways, moving along I threw in a few sprints, to the best of my legs’ abilities. No issues there from a feel standpoint. However, later on in the ride, I did notice the usual NEO slip if you go from a complete stop to sprinting. Meaning, when I was sitting on the side of the road and applied a crapton of force, you feel a tiny bit of slip. That seems the same as previous. But normal, on the road, sprinting is fine.
Essentially, this is the NEO you know and love, just with some new internals and features that aren’t yet available or announced.
Sound-wise, it’s just as quiet as before as well. The only nuance is that Tacx warned the fans wouldn’t turn off as fast as they should, and I noticed that after I stopped pedaling. They said the next firmware update (which sounds like a few days away) already fixes that. Thus, the only sound you hear while pedaling is the drivetrain sound and then a very low barely audible sound of the internal fans like before. Again, it’s why people have flocked to the NEO prior to other quiet trainers coming on the market.
Overall though, from a road feel and riding standpoint – it’s basically just like the previous NEO.
Looking very briefly at the accuracy, I slotted it up against the SRM EXAKT power meter pedals, and the Stages LR dual-sided crankset. Here’s the data from that quick initial test ride (again, this isn’t a full review, just a quick first look):
As expected, there’s a bit of variance in the high end sprints. They warned me about this firmware version doing that prior to sending the unit over (and interestingly, the variance is really only seen on the Bluetooth Smart side rather than the ANT+ side – both are shown below, with BLE recorded via Zwift). They say it should be fixed in the next version in the next few days. But otherwise, things are pretty darn close:
Remember, the NEO line doesn’t do or support calibration. It’s designed to ‘just work’, and beta spikes aside, it does exactly that. In my mind, that’s ultimately where all trainers should be at.
Looking at the new cadence sensor bits, that’s also very very close. You see a couple minor spots where it varies by 1-3RPM’s for a few seconds, but not too shabby.
When I asked the company about those variances, they said they believe they’re actually showing the true cadence since they’re doing it at a higher refresh rate than their competitors. I don’t actually have a good way to test/validate this at the moment that I can think of (with respect to nuanced changes like this). So I’ll have to take their word for it.
And to be fair – I’ve seen cases like this in the past when technology advanced forward and the bar gets raised. I don’t know if that’s the case yet, but I don’t have anything that says it’s not.
Overall though, aside from the known beta bugs, accuracy seems like before – solid. Obviously, I want to see the beta power surge thing fixed – but given they’ve done that for the past NEO 1 units, I don’t expect that to be a stopper here. I’ll update this post once I’ve got a firmware version that shows that corrected.
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)
Trainer Comparisons:
I’ve added the Tacx NEO 2 into the product comparison tool, though honestly, you won’t see much differences here compared to the NEO 1, since for the fields I track, they don’t cover more of the nuanced changes.
Nonetheless, here’s how it stacks up against the Wahoo KICKR 2018 and Elite Drivo II, which are the two trainers I’d mainly compare it against. For fun, I also tossed in the CycleOps H2, though I don’t really view that in the same league as the KICKR 2018 and Drivo II from an accuracy or quietness standpoint.
And remember, you can mix and match against all trainers I’ve poked at within the product comparison database here.
Wrap Up:
Many of you know that I’ve long used the first generation Tacx NEO as my go-to trainer, mainly due to the silence aspects combined with the lack of needing calibration. I like the idea of just jumping on and going (and getting accurate data), and it appears the NEO 2 will likely deliver on that as well. Oh, and I know it’s silly, but I like the road feel bits in Zwift. Hitting the wooden planks on the piers just adds to the realism.
For the most part, the new features as released today won’t likely impact me too much as a major driver, at least until head units and 3rd party apps support them. And not knowing what new magical features will come down the road via firmware update means it’s harder to assign value to them in choosing a trainer.
Therefore I really see this more as a minor update that removes doubt in people’s minds about choosing the NEO only to have it replaced by a new NEO days/months later. Many people have asked about a NEO refresh going into this summer, so this resolves that. Ultimately, the conversation is pretty much back to NEO with road feel or KICKR+CLIMB. Both are silent, and both deliver unique in-ride realism features to keep you distracted from the fact that you’re pedaling facing a wall going nowhere.
Like comparing iOS to Android, folks have their favorites between the two. Some prefer road feel of one versus the other. I suspect most wouldn’t be able to tell which one they were riding if they were blindfolded. Ultimately, you won’t go wrong with either. And I’d be happy to ride either as my main trainer this winter.
With that – thanks for reading, and feel free to drop any questions below.
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Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
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This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
There are *many* variations of cassette removal tools, this is the best bang for your buck. Don't overthink this. You'll likely only use this tool once every 2-3 years.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
This is a Shimano 105 cassette (thus, slightly more budget compared to the Ultegra), in most cases, you probably won't notice the difference. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
This is a Ultegra cassette, you can save about $10-$15 by picking up a Shimano 105 instead. Ensure that the number of speeds matches your bike (e.g. 11-speed, 10-speed, 9-speed, etc...).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
Tacx says the NEO 2 will replace the NEO 1, until that happens (stock-wise), the pricing will remain the same. Once stocks do come online in various countries, the NEO 1 will see a price reduction to get rid of inventory.
Correct. In Europe the prices were dropped, but not in the US (note that the price drop that occurred back a few months ago isn’t what we’re talking about here).
Hi Ray, thanks for the multi-trainer-rides day! I guess the Neo 1 will be heavily discounted now that the 2 is (almost) out until they empty their stocks… From what I understand of your review the difference is not huge, at least for the main features. Do you think the bet on the “unknown future features” is worth the price difference?
Thanks! See above comment about the same time as yours on pricing plans.
In terms of benefits, it honestly depends on how much you’re saving. Also worthwhile keeping in mind Black Friday type sales are just around the corner, so that could impact things (on either new or old unit).
Ultimately, the Neo 1 is still a really solid trainer that easily keeps up with all other top-end 2018 introduced trainers this year. So I see the Neo 2 more as future proofing yourself for unknown newness than anything else.
Thanks for the writeup! Is there any word of whether any of the features introduced will be available in any capacity on the original NEO, or do they all require the new hardware?
Everything is all about new hardware here. Basically, things inside were physically changed with new hardware, new chipsets, new etc…For things like pedaling metrics, those are dependent on new sensors inside the body of the Tacx to detect passing objects.
Given I don’t know what other unannounced new features are coming, I can’t say for certain if any of them would apply to the Neo 1. My guess is most/all wouldn’t, since Tacx made a point of saying that said new electronic internals were driving whatever new features they’ve got coming.
Maybe a stupid question. But I wonder if an upgrade kit could/would be made avail?? In form of a new “CPU” pcb and a pcb with the new sensor….
I’m mainly interested in :
– New microcontroller and additional memory: This will improve ERG control Tacx says, and reduce vibrations
and the vibration part in particular.
Thing is, I don’t see the NEO as all so quited. I live in a multi-story apartment complex with 100 year old wooden floor construction. It’s pretty sturdy with 8″ beams and sand in the middle, but the vibration from the 32 magnets setup, is enough to make the whole floor vibrate… And this to a level, where I don’t dare to ride my NEO in the evening, out of consideration for the folks below.
Eli, I like the suggestion, though I’m a bit biased. Yes, the three primary applications for which I developed VeloAngle out of frustration with what was available for capturing and transferring setup are:
A. To/from fit bike
B. New bike setup based on old bike
C. Swapping or new purchase of the “touch” components
One aspect I think DCR readers will find interesting is the use of point-to-point polar measurement (length and angle vs. X-Y). The accuracy benefits of a single direct measurement rather two (horiz, vert) are nice, and the the digital inclinometer can adjust the zero plane so the bike doesn’t need to be leveled. However I think the real conceptual benefit is thinking of the bike setup as we do fitting and even frame geometry. That is, using angles as the primary parameter to convey efficiency/performance/handling. The angles of the BB/Saddle/Cockpit triangle should be able to convey a setup more succinctly than a number of coordinates that are size dependent. For example, conventionally one might talk about a 100 mm handlebar drop. The meaning is strongly influenced by the size of the rider, whereas a 10 deg. drop is more informative.
However just as we grey-hair engineers that spent a career working in units that were archaic but familiar, it will take a while to evolve from the gravity-based measurement language of the bubble level and plumb bob. In recognition the VeloAngle App converts between polar and X-Y coordinates.
Dave
Is the clearance any better on the left side? The Neo is really tight for some disc frames. It looks as if the flywheel has a bit of a ridge on it in the new version to push the cassette farther out (avoiding derailleur rub in the largest cog).
Also, do you have a sense of any structural changes? The Neo can get a little creaky.
The most fascinating thing about the new update is the improved memory or performance with ERG mode. I have had the Neo1 for over 2 years now and occasionally the trainer will have delayed changes in resistance for ERG mode or road feel on Zwift. I’m not sure if this is an issue with Zwift or with the trainer messing up the ERG mode/road-feel queue. Any insight on that? The Neo seems to hit resistance targets in ERG mode between 3-5 seconds which is reasonable and from what I understand, typical.
I think the road feel update for the Neo was a game changer – it’s pretty cool. The isotonic mode was also really useful, however I have yet to find software aside from the Tacx phone app that I can use it for trainer workouts (ie. set my ERG intervals to do isotonic – I realize isotonic gets rid of the flywheel but setting it at a percentage resistance and modifying cadence to target a wattage would work).
Looking forward to see if there are any new killer features they release down the road that compels me to upgrade. The pedaling metrics are cool just like the isotonic resistance, however there isn’t a good way to utilize it outside of Tacx software…
Can a long cage RD be used on the new unit? NEO 1 has a plastic ridge in the housing that blocks the largest cog. Hard to say from your pictures, but it looks like the housing is the same aside from the new colors.
Hi, was worried too about long cage, ordered Neo 2 for my Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0, Sram Force 22 and a long cage Sram RDR. Everything fine for the largest cog. It‘s just my left pedal that hits the plastic hood at every stroke that I‘m worried about. Why the hell Tacx‘s engineers couldn‘t place the electronics on the other side? Have they got classes in sabotage before conceiving this nice piece?
neo cadence refresh rate far higher then many apps creates what i call super cadence spikes, dont have the issue on tacx training or trainerroad but common on zwift sufferfest.
Do you think it would’ve been cool if Tacx added the rotating dropouts that would’ve made it compatible with the Wahoo Kickr Climb?
Or even adjustable feet, to allow centering on sloping floors.
None of the new features are interesting, …or anything to write home about. :D
Thoughts yet on the pedal stroke analysis? I assume any strain gauges must be in the body of the trainer… so there is no way that they can be true L-R is there?
In essence are we looking at a form of reverse engineering, so single figure + position in pedal stroke + clever algorithm = some kind of disaggregated read out.
Don’t know much about these things, but can that really be any more that an approximation, and poor cousin to strain gauges in the cranks?
They’re using a blend of known position plus speed (and power of course).
I haven’t ridden that piece yet, nor had a chance to compare it. I’m interested in perhaps comparing it against a duo of the Pioneer power pedaling metrics with either Garmin or PowerTap atop it. I suspect all those pieces will come together later this month.
As far as I know strain gauges always need calibration. (neo can’t be calibrated so no strain gauge)
For pedal stroke analysis, it wouldn’t know about the forces on the pedal that aren’t in the direction of movement. So wouldn’t know if one leg is pushing and one leg is pulling, or if any force is not going in a tangent to the circle of the cranks. I do wonder if it processes the data fast enough to get data similar to the Dead Stop Score Leomo captures (see: link to leomo.zendesk.com)
Of course the question that immediately follows is for this kind of analysis (the WattBike peanut), does the algorithm give any less USEFUL info for training purposes, even if the scientists can show the absolute values are 3.852663% out
I bought and returned a NEO 1 last year because of slippage during climbing. You mentioned the same thing when going from a complete stop to sprinting. There is no such slippage with the Kickr I use. Is there any improvement with the NEO 2 regarding climbing?
I did some climbing last night, though no massive sprints during climbing (which is where that slippage can happen). In my case the slippage I was was from stand-still to sprint.
I’ll put it on the to-do list tomorrow, as well as see if there’s any planned improvements there from Tacx.
I wonder if a deciding factor between Kickr and Neo is that those residing in the U.S. should go with the Kickr and vice versa for those in Europe because of the possibly better support from a “local” manufacturer respectively?
These days both companies have warehouses and in-continent support/replacements (assuming it’s bought within that continent), so I don’t think it’s a factor anymore.
I wonder how the trainer will know between left and right legs since, as far as the trainer knows, it is just power applied to the cassette though the chain.
When I ride, I dont have a preference on what leg starts pedaling when I am start to move or start to pedal after coasting for a bit. I just use the leg that is in the best position.
If the trainer is detecting mass passing it to tell cadence I’m guessing that same sensor can tell which side of the neo it is detecting that cadence (notice how the cranks overlap the trainer and the feet will overlap it even more)
Given the semi flexible nature of the Neo itself, which tilts by a few degrees, they could probably ascertain which side is being pedaled from high speed tilt sensors.
Something which is never talked about on these new product reviews is the build quality and life expectancy of the units. There is a lot of mechanical force and manipulation of mechanical forces utilized on these devices. How long should you reasonably expect one to last?
My understanding is the differences here are accuracy changes as well as being able to integrate with 3rd parties, plus transmission of that information for left/right balance.
When the bike is in the trainer can you lift it and pivot it like it would need to to use a “Climb” type unit? I mean doing this without machining your dropouts away. Just kind of interested in seeing if they are interested in making their own unit eventually.
On my specific bike, it does pivot without issue on the Neo 2. Of course, that was also true of my bikes and the earlier KICKR’s that weren’t compatible with CLIMB.
Does the neo allow the bike to move up and down while clamped in like the kickr? I know it doesn’t support the climb as the climb is controlled by the kickr but allowing rotation instead of there being friction and wear on the frame where it clamps to the trainer could speak to future functionality (assuming there isn’t some patent that prevents them from creating their own version of the climb)
As to cadence, wouldn’t any magnet based cadence sensor be good enough to use as a baseline? The original cadence sensors from garmin or a pioneer power meter with magnets on the frame and configured to use the magnets.
As far as cadence sensors go, sure, though it doesn’t sound like there’s any need for the magnets. They were talking about even being able to detect the changes going past with your feet or hands.
I know they are claiming the neo sensors don’t need a magnet, I’m talking about what to compare the neo sensors too as they seem to be claiming their sensor with its much higher refresh rate is more sensitive then accelerometer sensors which is what you were comparing to above. But guessing you have access to magnet sensors to compare to
I asked that CLIMB feature couple of weeks ago from Tacx Support and atleast then they told me that they have not working with CLIMB or any similar system to Neo trainer. But maybe they not just told me the truth. :)
While I didn’t hook up a CLIMB today to it, I did validate it goes up/down without any issue. So now it’s just up to Tacx/Wahoo to work it out.
Of course, it’s more complex than than in reality. There’s validation of more frames than my sample size of one, as well as longer term wear items. Plus things like implementing in software.
The good news is the Neo hub system is super modular, so that gives a lot of leeway for flexibility if needed.
I am in turmoil over Kickr v Core v Neo v Flux v Cycleops H2.
I was all set to buy Neo after being spooked by bad reports about Core / Kickr 2018. Now put off Neo by fear of missing out if Neo 2 does something fancy that would transform my riding experience…..maybe not. Apart from pedal dynamics that I can get from my Assioma pedals so I am struggling to see what this new functionality could be.
Ray – will the winter 2018 trainer summary be out soon to put me out my misery?!
Hey Paul, just wondering if you could expand on the issues with the KICKR core you were concerned about. I’m on the cusp of picking up a core vs a STAC zero in the next few days.
That link is full of incorrect information. Wahoo is on top of the situation and is shipping updated, tested units that do not have issues. The problem was an improperly machined “key” that allowed for some play (and a lot of noise) in the drivetrain internals. I have spoken to Wahoo’s support manager directly.
Have you noticed any improvement in the latency between power applied (or cadence) and readings getting update on Zwift? There seems to be latency between road surface changes and effects being felt on the trainer.
I did not find in this article any information regarding the rigidity of this NEO 2. When you stand up on the bike and push the watts, does the trainer bend right and left, does it squeak, as the previous version NEO 1 does ?
Is the Bluetooth control for the NEO2 the Tacx specific type or FTMS?
I realise it’s a niche case but I use Xert and would love to use their IOS app to control my Neo. Apparently FTMS is coming soon, but it has been doing so for a good 6 months now so don’t have much hope considering the Neo1 will be phased out.
It’s currently the Tacx type, but all Tacx products will soon be FTMS, including both NEO1 and NEO2 (and virtually all other current/recent Tacx ‘Smart’ products). They’ve got beta builds already circling around for testing, so it’s not far away.
OK. Now that’s a trainer I might actually enjoy! Was hoping for a better carrying handle at a minimum and smaller/lighter if at all possible. It’s now on my wish list. Looking forward to the full review with comparison to Pioneer for stroke analysis and L/R balance. Really intrigued about the upcoming new features.
Cool to see you also rode the “Halloween” bike with the “skeleton” frame/wheel upgrade on Wednesday. Think maybe tacx/Zwift should enable the Neo to make bone creaking sounds when riding on Halloween … ;-)
On cadence and spinning things, wouldn’t a portable tachometer work? might also work on drone propellers too? Not sure how much $$$ to be more accurate than sensors attached to bike parts, especially for slower revolutions.
Is there a difference between Neo 1 and 2 on the stand-alone mode? I mean, I like to trainer unplugged and the Neo automatically add more resistance without changing bike gears. Is the Neo 2 better (more realistic) in that way?
How do you rate the Kickr Core up to this? Im on a slight of a budget, and is the Core a better deal for me then? I am also a Star Wars fan and the looks of the NEO is pretty damn awesome. And which of the three trainers, kicker, Kicker core and NEO vibrates the least end is the quietest?
I don’t think you’ll be upset (at all) with a KICKR CORE. No question there.
Insofar as sound, here’s a comparison I did between exactly those three: link to youtube.com
Vibration-wise, I haven’t done a test there, though, I suspect the Neo 1 would produce the most vibrations. I know Tacx did some stuff in the Neo 2 to reduce vibrations, but I haven’t figure out a good way to test that yet. Unfortunately, the exact flooring surfaces in your apartment/etc tend to dictate how things vary in terms of vibrations.
Unfortunately the new DCR Cave is just a concrete beast (almost a foot thick concrete floors), and our home is on the ground floor. :(
Thanks for the great feedback. In my paincave I had concrete before, but now i have a laminate floor. The reason for my question was that my neighbour (the person living above us) has complained about noise from my tacx sartori trainer. You say that the core is a great match-up then? being on a budget? :) Keep up the good work, love your channel and site.
I took delivery of the NEO2 yesterday (Glasgow) Yay, or so I thought, as the packaging had previously been opened and resealed along with a number of scuffs and a couple of chips on the outer metal flywheel casing? Emailed an enquiry and awaiting a reply to confirm if this is ‘normal’ for a brand new premium product. Ordered direct from Tacx too so I’m feeling fairly deflated on the customer experience side of getting a brand new thing. On the plus side everything else looked fine but haven’t used it yet just in case. And I’m champing at the bit to try it out so I’m currently stuck between the preverbials.
As for availability, Tacx show limited Euro stock with all other areas weeks away. There’s a few UK sites now showing pre-orders for early next month.
Hi, I ordered a NEO2 from Mantel and received the home trainer 2 days ago. I had the same experience as you. When I opened the parcel, I noticed that, although the parcel wasnt not damaged on the outside, the polystyrene inside was broken … Strange … also some of the polystyrene was inside the machine. I was told to hoover it …
And finnaly when I started using it, an odd metallic sound came up …
It is quite a shame when you spend 1300€ (+ all accessories !) on a “brand” new product. I am now waiting for Mantel (and tacx) to confirm what they will do about it …
I have serious doubts about neo 2 reliability and feel like being the “Beta customer” for this new machine …
A) Did you check that your rear derailluer isn’t touching it in certain gears?
B) Any chance it was on Zwift while riding on ‘off-road’ terrain (dirt)? There appears to be a bug in the algorithm that makes a wonky sound there (road feel bug), the second you hit pavement it goes away.
I forget to update my moan!
Don’t get too down about it. Although they were a bit over their own deadline for answering queries, their turnaround for a replacement was fast, even with their limited availability. From dropping the original unit at the courier depot, to getting a replacement only took about a week. So double thumbs for their customer support. Since then though I’ve had some minor issues to overcome. As this was my first trainer and a total noob to using them I found myself struggling on finding the correct combination of adapters to fit my bike (2016 Canyon Spectral mtb). After finally getting it all put together I had to dial in the rear derailleur and after a trial run of two minutes, found part of the inner brake mech was scoring into the neo housing so I’ve had to jam in a bit of rubber to stop it from wearing though until I find a better solution. Really hoping there’s nothing internal the casing can be pressed against. And yes the occasional metallic rubbing/ticking sound too but that has been intermittent and not enough to have me worried (yet). All in all though I’m enjoying it when I can and currently trying to decide on which app to subscribe (Trainerroad- untested, and Zwift- still trialing, and will start their own premium trial once I’m happy with my setup. Looking forward to cycling along using actual video footage :) My biggest concern at the moment is how to mitigate the low frequency noise levels generated on carpeted wooden flooring. Resonates more than I’m comfortable with so will need to experiment on soundproofing. Any and all suggestions much appreciated.
Best of luck.
A) Yes, it was not touching
B) I have not used any aplication yet. The noise came up while cycling (not even used nluetooth).
I ahave to admit that MANTEL wasvery quick to sort this out. I sent them a video and they received an answer from tacx in the same day. My new home trainer is already on the way. I’ll let you know about it if you want to.
Is this so ? Isn’t it a bit more noisy ? Some cogs go perfectly fine, others make a bit more noise, no ?
I drive an older Elite Real Turbo Muin B+, but on that trainer I started with a Shimano cassette (ultegra), but that didn’t shift very well IMO. Changed the hub, and ended up as a happy man again. Seemed like (for that trainer) there is a reason why another hub exists…
But curious for your experience in combination with the Neo
Ready to buy a new trainer. Difficult to decide between Neo 2, Kickr 18 and Core … I use ERG mode quite a bit. How would you rate Neo and the Kickr in terms of ERG mode operation?
The idea of having a really accurate trainer with no calibration is attractive. However, having to spin down the Kickr every few weeks is not a big deal to me.
Pretty darn similiar between those for ERG mode. I’m sure there’s 1% type edge cases where one might be better than the other, but for the ERG workouts I’ve tried (including things like 30×30’s and such), there’s no tangible difference for ERG mode.
Wondering as well about clearance on the non-driveaide. Comparing pictures between the original Nep and the Neo 2, it looks like the “cutout” on the non-driveside is angled downward more on the Neo 2 and provides more clearance. On the original neo, the left chainstay on the non-driveside contacts the plastic on my P5. Hoping the Neo 2 can solve that.
How fast can the Neo 2 change resistance for the purposes of ERG intervals? With my OG Wahoo KICKR it’s 2 seconds behind what’s shown on the screen but ends up to be the same time.
How high can I set the ERG for a given interval? OG KICKR is 999W. Personal record was 20 seconds at that value but would like to see if I can extract higher wattages if I had an ERG trainer that could put on some serious wattage (for reference I’m 100kg so w/kg is still terrible).
I can try it tomorrow, but I can’t do more than 1,000w on my legs. Also, the KICKR 999 limit was just within the default app, you can set it higher for 3rd party apps like TrainerRoad.
The trick is to setup a workout with a mostly very low wattage. After a bit of warmup you spin your legs 120-150rpm right before the 1000 watts + interval happens. Try to hold the cadence as the pain happens.
Did you do any more testing regarding the slippage?
I use the virtual mountain routes on Rouvy so often get out of the saddle (around 240w), drop a gear and put in a short effort (very quickly up to 550w). Is it likely to slip then?
I started it because I had similar questions. Bottom line is, I think, you should not have any issues unless you go up a climb, let speed drop and then hammer it. IRL you might wheelie the bike with such an effort … ;)
I just want to share my experience with the Neo 2 so far.
I exchanged my Neo 1 for a Neo 2 hopping to get some pedal efficiency and/or L/R balance being transmitted via ANT+ or Bluetooth to my Garmin Edge 1030. As far as I can tell the Neo 2 does not send it.
Next thing is the cadence, which supposed to be improved. But actually it has not. I tested on Tuesday my brand new Neo 2 and it failed to register a cadence. Only when I move my feet inward (they hit the chain stay) it starts tracking the cadence.
I contacted Tacx support and they told me sometimes the sensor gets disturbed/disconnected after transportation (I live in The Netherlands where the factory of Tacx is located). So they suggested to exchange the unit. Today I picked up another unit, but same problem :(
I do have an old full suspension MTB mounted to the Neo 2 with a chain stay that is lower then normal. I now suspect this chain stay to interfere with the cadence sensor.
So please be warned that the cadence sensor does not always work with every bike!
Cadence issue is still there. I replaced the MTB frame by a Cube cross frame with normal chain stays, but the problem is still there.
Tacx support is aware of this issue and the told me that more MTB frames might have the same issue. They hope to fix it with a firmware upgrade or else they will use my ‘fix’ as basis for a more permanent/professional fix.
I also tested the new Garmin Edge 1030 6.45 beta (which includes cycling dynamics metrics) but this does not work with the Neo 2. So far I have not been able to get L/R or pedal dynamics from the Neo 2 to show on any device/app :(. I tested using their desktop app on Mac and the app on Android.
Firmware 0.0.18 seems to have solved my cadence issue in most cases. Only doing standing stomps < 60 RPM (via Stages PM) cadence on the Neo goes back to 0 most of the times.
Gentlemen,
I just returned a NEO 1 after verifing that it does not work with my road bike and mtb, both disk brake.
Does anyone know about disk brake compatibility with NEO 2 ?
What about Wahoo… by looking at pictures it seems better.
I would love to know if the new Neo would work with disk brakes too. I have a 2017 Lynskey Helix Pro with TA and Disks that I would like to run on this trainer.
I noticed that you went right to Zwift for ease of use for video demo. My question is how easy/user friendly is the TACX platform? I currently have the TACX T2050 Ironman Virtual Reality Trainer…..and it is not easy to work with, importing and exporting workouts/real ride data etc.
As always, thanks for your reviews, input, and valuable data the community relies on! You rock.
Where are you looking? In the US, Amazon shows 2 dealers offering the Neo 2 – Brands Cycle and Ride With Us, both $100 more than Clever’s price of $1399. Clever does show the Neo 2, expected due date at the end of December. Am I missing something?
To confirm I’m looking an Clever’s European site which as of 5 minutes ago still has no mention whatsoever of the Neo 2 and is still hopefully/desperately? trying to sell the original Neo at full price….. am wondering if the 2 facts are connected. Tried to contact Clever but getting anything meaningful out of them was like pulling teeth. At the end of the day it’s like…. “Whatever” life is too short. Google showed me 5 retailers that will bite my hand off for a £1200 sale and deliver free on next day delivery.
Question: The Wahoo Fitness app has a wonderful ERG mode through which you can simply state the watts you want to ride at and change that wattage quickly. The Neo 2 is not compatible with the app. I cannot identify another app which has a simple absolute power interface – everything seems to be done off % FTP which is starting to bug me. Any suggestions?
Thanks. It is a fantastic list but I don’t think the Wahoo Fitness can be bettered for simplicity and function. I’ll just have to go on punching the +5w button on Tacx/Hurts etc!
Here in the Netherlands there are some interesting deals with the old Neo and taking into account the need for a cassette for the Kickr Core, the difference in price is not so big, relatively speaking.
Regarding the folding, I had the impression that the Neo folded much smaller but it was maybe just an optical illusion.
Note that the Neo needs a cassette as well, so that bits a wash (yes, seriously, somehow Tacx doesn’t include a cassette with the most expensive direct drive trainer on the market).
For the folding, it’s sorta like comparing a banana to a largeish pear. Different shapes, but ultimately about the same volume. Ok, my analogy is horrible, but you get the point.
My Elite Drivo-I control board died and I didn’t want to be without a trainer for the approx 2 weeks it will take for the replacement board to come from Italy. So I pickup a Neo2 a couple days ago. When I moved my aluminum frame Cannondale Synapse training bike to the Neo2 I used the quick-release that came in the Neo box and didn’t know I needed to install the spacer under the left side mount. This resulted in some chain line shifting problems. So it took me a while to figure out that I need the spacer. Here is a picture of it installed. Hope this helps other folks.
I think the Neo is the better trainer. I find it smoother, quieter, and more stable than the Drivo-1. The Neo’s motor driven flywheel on descents is a big diff in feel between the Drivo-1 and the Neo. The Neo’s road surface vibrations don’t do much for me though.
I was looking at the Kicker Core also but I am using an Apple 4K TV for Zwift. I didn’t want to deal with the having to use the Zwift companion app for Heart rate, Apple TV only has 3 Bluetooth channels.
Has anyone received Neo 2 from Clever Training? It seems everybody else in the US has them available for shipping but not Clever. I emailed them and got the generic “we’re expecting them soon.” I’ve had mine on order since 11/17. Local shops around here even have them.
I ordered mine from them on November 8, and it shipped yesterday. Should have it tomorrow. I saw a post on the Neo Owners Facebook group from someone who also ordered on the 8th and theirs shipped last week. I’m guessing they must just now be getting them in batches and fulfilling the pre-orders.
Travis, I ordered mine at same time as you. The Neo 2 from CT came in today via FedEx. Hope you get yours soon as it’s the bees knees! I have had an Elite Direto for 6 weeks (900 virtual mikes on Zwift) now and from just doing a short test ride on Zwift, I am impressed with the Neo 2! Needless to say, this is going to be my main Zwift rig and the Direto will be used by the wife while ride together.
ray You meantioned that you don’t need a power cable but than you are using one?
Could you elaborate a bit on this? Can I use the neo with Zwift or TrainerRoad without power cable does it generate it own power ? Does it connect to computer even without power cable
How does this works
It makes it easier to pair to apps since it’s always powered on. Allows me to know before jumping on the bike that everything is happy, versus jumping on and finding something is amiss.
It doesn’t need a cable though, it generates it’s own power once pedaling. But if not pedaling, it’ll shut off.
Ray, just to clarify, without the power cable it has full functionality when pedalling? I assume therefore no “assisted drive” on descents? That needs the cable yes?
Sorry for the delay on the warranty piece – no change there. For US buyers it’s actually handled by the exact same distributor no matter who you buy it from in the US.
Obviously with CT you get the 10% discount, and it helps the site. But I won’t call you too many bad names if you buy direct. :)
Hi,
I have one question about Tacx Neo 2 trainer. I,ve just started to use this great mashine, but something seems to be wrong – my bike is not in straight axis with trainer. Bike is turned right and it’s mostly visible from the back. I know, that Neo 2 left side is little bit wider and it could be optical illusion, but it’s not the case ;)
Did you recognise same same issue with your trainer?
Plese check a photo.
Regarding axle-compatibility the Neo is not compatible with Cervelo and Focus R.A.T axles. Tacx does not have a 12mm hole through the hub like most other trainers do, so a 9 mm skewer and cap adapters need to be used. This does not work very well with R.A.T.
You also might have to take the rear disc brake caliper off the frame on bikes with Flat mount brake mounts – like Focus Paralane.
Flatmount are the standard for disc roadbikes right now and the whole roadbike market change to disc. So Tacx release a new trainer without support for the most sold roadbikes at this time?
Can believe this, that would be really bad product management.
Have been having a lot of problems solving for the Cervelo S3 R.A.T. Axel with my TACX. I have a Flux 2 which is the same set up as Neo, but my Flux 2 came with the 12mm through adapter kit, however, it only has included in the set an end piece with a 1mm threading and 1.5mm threading but no 1.75mm threading.
I was able to find the Cervélo OEM rear derailleur hanger that is threaded (you will have remove your RAT style rear derailleur hanger and switch your through axle to quick release threaded, not RAT) but the Cervelo rear derailleur hanger threads with 1.75mm spacing.
The instructions show a 1.75mm is available — yet it just doesn’t appear to available anywhere! Does anyone have the third 1.75mm threaded version?
I’ve been looking at Wahoo KickR’s and got one recently. Only to be disappointed with its reliability (dead optical sensor out of the box). Doesn’t inspire much confidence getting another one long term.
Since I’m new to looking at the Neo or Neo 2, how would you all rate the reliability of the Neos?
Thanks in advance
Did they fix/address the low RPM vibration issue with the Neo2?
I have a Neo 1 that has always felt “notchy” at low RPM and lower power levels (through the pedals/bike). It’s like a low-grade version of road feel. I can feel it at higher power levels, but lactic acid usually becomes the dominant thing on my mind…
I’ve read that some people do not experience it and the pedaling is smooth.
Yes i have a wahoo kicker that has never been a problem, it has been great probably have 10,000 plus miles on it. It’s starting to get a little loud could be in my head too. Lol. I was wondering if you were buying a new one which one would you buy, the neo2 or another new wahoo kicker? DO all of my riding on Zwift also
The tilt on the Neo2 is excessive! It feels unnatural, unstable and power robbing. I don’t ever flop all over the place like on the Neo2 when I ride on the road. The worst part is that the flopping robs from the pedaling power and reduces the power going to the drive chain. My average wattage reduces by more than 20% when I went from the rigid Tacx Vortex trainer to the Neo2. It feels more like a downgrade!
If you’re seeing differences of 20% between your Vortex and NEO, it’s because one of them is wrong. Simple as that. And I’d bet a pretty substantial sum of money you’re Vortex was the wrong one.
As for the slight bit of tilting side to side – most people actually like that. It’s a feature, since it allows a little bit of give, akin to out on the real road where you bike moves and tilts. Slight bit of movement in trainers/platforms also increases comfort for longer trainer rides, but it means your body ever so subtly moves to different muscles/parts of your butt. Trek showed this with Saris last year in a study (and of course, is something everyone already know).
As for tilting, it’s unlikely to reduce drivetrain power since that’s not how power transfer works. Your legs output the power to the crank arms, which drive the train, which in turn drive the cassette that’s connected to the NEO. No part of that cares at all that you’ve tilted 1-2*.
Your core could however require extra work to maintain stability, but I think it’s probably more likely just a case of getting used to it. In all the years the NEO has been out, this is the first complaint of this nature I’ve seen.
The tilt issue on the NEO is the permanent tilt to the right. It is not the slight movement from side to side which is a nice feature. Adjusting trainer with e.g. cardboard underneath or krepning your bars turned lleft is not a good feature
Mist people mix tiltning and rocking. I would still like to hear from Tacx regarding the permanent tilting
I’d love it for my Vortex to be wrong. Unfortunately, I don’t think so. My average wattage on the Neo2 is about the same as my average on my road rides. The difference is that my road rides have a lot of obstructions to cause my average wattage to be lower such as drafting, slowing down for stop signs/lights, slowing down for curves, slowing down for traffic, … My average wattage on the Neo2 should be a lot higher given that I don’t have any of those obstructions to force me to ease up on my pedaling. BTW, I ride about 7000 miles a year so I am acutely aware of these differences.
The Neo2 tilting is unnatural and unstable. On a road ride, the law of physic says the faster the forward motion the higher the resistence to the change in motion to swaying left or right. In other words, I am a lot more stable on a road ride despite my hard pedaling. The Neo2 feels unnatural because the faster you go, the harder you pedal, and the more unstable and the more tilting left/right you get.
I am looking into building a custom brace to reduce the excessive titl.
I have the same issue for my new neo 2. it always slightly leans to the right. Just wondering it’s a defect for the one I received or it’s a common/design issue for all neo 2? Is it necessary to exchange or contact the tacx support?
Hello deare
Am facing a mismatch between my Cerve´lo Bike fitted with Cerve´lo R.A.T Quick Release (PAT . 20 2013 009 812 0), and my Tacx NEO2 Indoor trainer. The supplied from TACX Universal quick release for placing your bike in the trainer is not suitable. What is your advice? Which parts would matches my Bike?
I’m a little late to the party here, having only just purchased a Tacx Neo 2. Like Ahmed I found that my bike does not fit the trainer using any of the various parts supplied.
I use a GT Grade (gravel bike) as my main trainer, and if I try to use the QR supplied, the rear forks are just too wide to fit, plus the disc brake is pushed hard up against the side of the trainer.
I’ve purchased a couple of different conversion spindles to allow the QR to be fitted through the middle and haven’t yet found the correct length (148mm was too long – now waiting for 142 and 135 to test).
Does anybody know if it’s worth contacting Tacx/Garmin about this, in case they are able to supply a part that will resolve the issue?
Due to an accident i need to look for my right knee and therefore i bought a tacx neo 2 se last week.
As you showed in the tacx software there is a nice L/R power and smothness graph.
But there is nothing to analyse afterwards, or?
Do you know how to use (get) these L/R Data into Zwift or so?
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Hi Ray!… any news on the price of the Neo 1 officially dropping? Or it’s gonna be discontinued? Thanks!
Tacx says the NEO 2 will replace the NEO 1, until that happens (stock-wise), the pricing will remain the same. Once stocks do come online in various countries, the NEO 1 will see a price reduction to get rid of inventory.
The price of the Neo 1 has already significantly dropped at many outlets. And given the changes outlined here I would say take the lower price!
Correct. In Europe the prices were dropped, but not in the US (note that the price drop that occurred back a few months ago isn’t what we’re talking about here).
Wiggle have an excellent deal on the Neo 1 right now
Hi Ray, thanks for the multi-trainer-rides day! I guess the Neo 1 will be heavily discounted now that the 2 is (almost) out until they empty their stocks… From what I understand of your review the difference is not huge, at least for the main features. Do you think the bet on the “unknown future features” is worth the price difference?
Thanks! See above comment about the same time as yours on pricing plans.
In terms of benefits, it honestly depends on how much you’re saving. Also worthwhile keeping in mind Black Friday type sales are just around the corner, so that could impact things (on either new or old unit).
Ultimately, the Neo 1 is still a really solid trainer that easily keeps up with all other top-end 2018 introduced trainers this year. So I see the Neo 2 more as future proofing yourself for unknown newness than anything else.
Thanks for the writeup! Is there any word of whether any of the features introduced will be available in any capacity on the original NEO, or do they all require the new hardware?
Everything is all about new hardware here. Basically, things inside were physically changed with new hardware, new chipsets, new etc…For things like pedaling metrics, those are dependent on new sensors inside the body of the Tacx to detect passing objects.
Given I don’t know what other unannounced new features are coming, I can’t say for certain if any of them would apply to the Neo 1. My guess is most/all wouldn’t, since Tacx made a point of saying that said new electronic internals were driving whatever new features they’ve got coming.
Maybe a stupid question. But I wonder if an upgrade kit could/would be made avail?? In form of a new “CPU” pcb and a pcb with the new sensor….
I’m mainly interested in :
– New microcontroller and additional memory: This will improve ERG control Tacx says, and reduce vibrations
and the vibration part in particular.
Thing is, I don’t see the NEO as all so quited. I live in a multi-story apartment complex with 100 year old wooden floor construction. It’s pretty sturdy with 8″ beams and sand in the middle, but the vibration from the 32 magnets setup, is enough to make the whole floor vibrate… And this to a level, where I don’t dare to ride my NEO in the evening, out of consideration for the folks below.
I don’t suppose my unit could be broken???
Will all these features be present in the Bike Smart T8000 as well?
The NEO 2 smart is equipped with the same hardware as the NEO bike smart. Alle features (and more) will be available in the NEO bike smart also.
Thanks Martin! Now, logical follow up question: when can we expect the T8000 then? ?
Wish it had the ability to tilt the bike like the climb.
There is also the problem of how to transfer a fit from your bike to the trainer so they fit the same. Velo Angle? https://www.veloangle.com
Eli, I like the suggestion, though I’m a bit biased. Yes, the three primary applications for which I developed VeloAngle out of frustration with what was available for capturing and transferring setup are:
A. To/from fit bike
B. New bike setup based on old bike
C. Swapping or new purchase of the “touch” components
One aspect I think DCR readers will find interesting is the use of point-to-point polar measurement (length and angle vs. X-Y). The accuracy benefits of a single direct measurement rather two (horiz, vert) are nice, and the the digital inclinometer can adjust the zero plane so the bike doesn’t need to be leveled. However I think the real conceptual benefit is thinking of the bike setup as we do fitting and even frame geometry. That is, using angles as the primary parameter to convey efficiency/performance/handling. The angles of the BB/Saddle/Cockpit triangle should be able to convey a setup more succinctly than a number of coordinates that are size dependent. For example, conventionally one might talk about a 100 mm handlebar drop. The meaning is strongly influenced by the size of the rider, whereas a 10 deg. drop is more informative.
However just as we grey-hair engineers that spent a career working in units that were archaic but familiar, it will take a while to evolve from the gravity-based measurement language of the bubble level and plumb bob. In recognition the VeloAngle App converts between polar and X-Y coordinates.
Dave
But will NEO 2 support long deraliure? And can a 135mm disc bike fit In now?
Will the Tacx Neo II be compatible with medium to long cage derailluers?
Is the clearance any better on the left side? The Neo is really tight for some disc frames. It looks as if the flywheel has a bit of a ridge on it in the new version to push the cassette farther out (avoiding derailleur rub in the largest cog).
Also, do you have a sense of any structural changes? The Neo can get a little creaky.
The most fascinating thing about the new update is the improved memory or performance with ERG mode. I have had the Neo1 for over 2 years now and occasionally the trainer will have delayed changes in resistance for ERG mode or road feel on Zwift. I’m not sure if this is an issue with Zwift or with the trainer messing up the ERG mode/road-feel queue. Any insight on that? The Neo seems to hit resistance targets in ERG mode between 3-5 seconds which is reasonable and from what I understand, typical.
I think the road feel update for the Neo was a game changer – it’s pretty cool. The isotonic mode was also really useful, however I have yet to find software aside from the Tacx phone app that I can use it for trainer workouts (ie. set my ERG intervals to do isotonic – I realize isotonic gets rid of the flywheel but setting it at a percentage resistance and modifying cadence to target a wattage would work).
Looking forward to see if there are any new killer features they release down the road that compels me to upgrade. The pedaling metrics are cool just like the isotonic resistance, however there isn’t a good way to utilize it outside of Tacx software…
Can a long cage RD be used on the new unit? NEO 1 has a plastic ridge in the housing that blocks the largest cog. Hard to say from your pictures, but it looks like the housing is the same aside from the new colors.
Yeah I’d like to know if clearance for a long cage mech is better on this model as well.
Same, would love to understand what is the latest on clearance with the new version.
Me too, even with the spacer it is still not perfect
Hi, was worried too about long cage, ordered Neo 2 for my Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0, Sram Force 22 and a long cage Sram RDR. Everything fine for the largest cog. It‘s just my left pedal that hits the plastic hood at every stroke that I‘m worried about. Why the hell Tacx‘s engineers couldn‘t place the electronics on the other side? Have they got classes in sabotage before conceiving this nice piece?
No calibration is THE feature why i can not go back to Wahoo. Still happy with my Neo one. Nothing compelling here to make me wish to update.
Hope they solved the plastic squeezing sound.
neo cadence refresh rate far higher then many apps creates what i call super cadence spikes, dont have the issue on tacx training or trainerroad but common on zwift sufferfest.
Hi Ray,
Do you think it would’ve been cool if Tacx added the rotating dropouts that would’ve made it compatible with the Wahoo Kickr Climb?
Or even adjustable feet, to allow centering on sloping floors.
None of the new features are interesting, …or anything to write home about. :D
Regards,
Luke
Regarding CLIMB + NEO, check out this exchange between Tacx and Wahoo on it: link to twitter.com
Hahaha this would be cool …. :-)
The customer would be the winner here. So hopefully it works out within a acceptable timeframe.
Thoughts yet on the pedal stroke analysis? I assume any strain gauges must be in the body of the trainer… so there is no way that they can be true L-R is there?
In essence are we looking at a form of reverse engineering, so single figure + position in pedal stroke + clever algorithm = some kind of disaggregated read out.
Don’t know much about these things, but can that really be any more that an approximation, and poor cousin to strain gauges in the cranks?
They’re using a blend of known position plus speed (and power of course).
I haven’t ridden that piece yet, nor had a chance to compare it. I’m interested in perhaps comparing it against a duo of the Pioneer power pedaling metrics with either Garmin or PowerTap atop it. I suspect all those pieces will come together later this month.
As far as I know strain gauges always need calibration. (neo can’t be calibrated so no strain gauge)
For pedal stroke analysis, it wouldn’t know about the forces on the pedal that aren’t in the direction of movement. So wouldn’t know if one leg is pushing and one leg is pulling, or if any force is not going in a tangent to the circle of the cranks. I do wonder if it processes the data fast enough to get data similar to the Dead Stop Score Leomo captures (see: link to leomo.zendesk.com)
Look forward to seeing that
Of course the question that immediately follows is for this kind of analysis (the WattBike peanut), does the algorithm give any less USEFUL info for training purposes, even if the scientists can show the absolute values are 3.852663% out
Ray;
I bought and returned a NEO 1 last year because of slippage during climbing. You mentioned the same thing when going from a complete stop to sprinting. There is no such slippage with the Kickr I use. Is there any improvement with the NEO 2 regarding climbing?
–Kirk Wemple
I did some climbing last night, though no massive sprints during climbing (which is where that slippage can happen). In my case the slippage I was was from stand-still to sprint.
I’ll put it on the to-do list tomorrow, as well as see if there’s any planned improvements there from Tacx.
Same slippage as before, tried it during a ride a few hours ago.
I wonder if a deciding factor between Kickr and Neo is that those residing in the U.S. should go with the Kickr and vice versa for those in Europe because of the possibly better support from a “local” manufacturer respectively?
These days both companies have warehouses and in-continent support/replacements (assuming it’s bought within that continent), so I don’t think it’s a factor anymore.
I wonder how the trainer will know between left and right legs since, as far as the trainer knows, it is just power applied to the cassette though the chain.
When I ride, I dont have a preference on what leg starts pedaling when I am start to move or start to pedal after coasting for a bit. I just use the leg that is in the best position.
If the trainer is detecting mass passing it to tell cadence I’m guessing that same sensor can tell which side of the neo it is detecting that cadence (notice how the cranks overlap the trainer and the feet will overlap it even more)
Given the semi flexible nature of the Neo itself, which tilts by a few degrees, they could probably ascertain which side is being pedaled from high speed tilt sensors.
Hi Ray, any word on Bluetooth FTMS support on the original Neo?
As far as I know all Tacx smart trainers will get it soon.
Hi Ray,
Something which is never talked about on these new product reviews is the build quality and life expectancy of the units. There is a lot of mechanical force and manipulation of mechanical forces utilized on these devices. How long should you reasonably expect one to last?
I thought that pedal analysis and left/right power was added with the latest firmware on the NEO 1?
link to smartbiketrainers.com
My understanding is the differences here are accuracy changes as well as being able to integrate with 3rd parties, plus transmission of that information for left/right balance.
When the bike is in the trainer can you lift it and pivot it like it would need to to use a “Climb” type unit? I mean doing this without machining your dropouts away. Just kind of interested in seeing if they are interested in making their own unit eventually.
On my specific bike, it does pivot without issue on the Neo 2. Of course, that was also true of my bikes and the earlier KICKR’s that weren’t compatible with CLIMB.
Still, seems like there’s some hope still: link to twitter.com
Thank you for taking the time to do this!
Does the neo allow the bike to move up and down while clamped in like the kickr? I know it doesn’t support the climb as the climb is controlled by the kickr but allowing rotation instead of there being friction and wear on the frame where it clamps to the trainer could speak to future functionality (assuming there isn’t some patent that prevents them from creating their own version of the climb)
As to cadence, wouldn’t any magnet based cadence sensor be good enough to use as a baseline? The original cadence sensors from garmin or a pioneer power meter with magnets on the frame and configured to use the magnets.
For Climb, I’ll give it a shot tomorrow.
As far as cadence sensors go, sure, though it doesn’t sound like there’s any need for the magnets. They were talking about even being able to detect the changes going past with your feet or hands.
I know they are claiming the neo sensors don’t need a magnet, I’m talking about what to compare the neo sensors too as they seem to be claiming their sensor with its much higher refresh rate is more sensitive then accelerometer sensors which is what you were comparing to above. But guessing you have access to magnet sensors to compare to
I asked that CLIMB feature couple of weeks ago from Tacx Support and atleast then they told me that they have not working with CLIMB or any similar system to Neo trainer. But maybe they not just told me the truth. :)
Any results on the “Climb” experiment?
I’d be interested in your Climb experiment, as well. Have you tried it?
While I didn’t hook up a CLIMB today to it, I did validate it goes up/down without any issue. So now it’s just up to Tacx/Wahoo to work it out.
Of course, it’s more complex than than in reality. There’s validation of more frames than my sample size of one, as well as longer term wear items. Plus things like implementing in software.
The good news is the Neo hub system is super modular, so that gives a lot of leeway for flexibility if needed.
Hi Ray,
is the mount of the bike still fix or can it be turned and lifted by the Kickr Climb?
Thx
Chris
For my specific bike if lifts without issue, YMMV.
Hey Ray
Is the neo bike incorporating the new neo 2 inners and two sided pedal strike analysis, or is it the same as neo 1?
It incorporates the Neo 2 innards.
I am in turmoil over Kickr v Core v Neo v Flux v Cycleops H2.
I was all set to buy Neo after being spooked by bad reports about Core / Kickr 2018. Now put off Neo by fear of missing out if Neo 2 does something fancy that would transform my riding experience…..maybe not. Apart from pedal dynamics that I can get from my Assioma pedals so I am struggling to see what this new functionality could be.
Ray – will the winter 2018 trainer summary be out soon to put me out my misery?!
Hey Paul, just wondering if you could expand on the issues with the KICKR core you were concerned about. I’m on the cusp of picking up a core vs a STAC zero in the next few days.
link to cyclechat.net
Yes that’s what I read and was in local bike shop and they’d had 2 Kickrs and Core back already. Surprised how honest they were!
That link is full of incorrect information. Wahoo is on top of the situation and is shipping updated, tested units that do not have issues. The problem was an improperly machined “key” that allowed for some play (and a lot of noise) in the drivetrain internals. I have spoken to Wahoo’s support manager directly.
Happy NEO 1 rider
But will this support long deraliure? And can a 135mm disc bike fit In now?
Hi,
Have you noticed any improvement in the latency between power applied (or cadence) and readings getting update on Zwift? There seems to be latency between road surface changes and effects being felt on the trainer.
Thanks
Rahul
Any word on adjustability of feet for uneven shed floors? I was hoping they might fix that in Gen 2..
My dream setup: Neo+Climb
I would buy this immediately.
Hi
I did not find in this article any information regarding the rigidity of this NEO 2. When you stand up on the bike and push the watts, does the trainer bend right and left, does it squeak, as the previous version NEO 1 does ?
Regards
Mihai
Yes, it bends, as it should and it doesn’t sqeak, as it shouldn’t. You can see that in the video, check it out.
Hi Ray,
Is the Bluetooth control for the NEO2 the Tacx specific type or FTMS?
I realise it’s a niche case but I use Xert and would love to use their IOS app to control my Neo. Apparently FTMS is coming soon, but it has been doing so for a good 6 months now so don’t have much hope considering the Neo1 will be phased out.
Thanks for the write up.
Cheers
Adam
It’s currently the Tacx type, but all Tacx products will soon be FTMS, including both NEO1 and NEO2 (and virtually all other current/recent Tacx ‘Smart’ products). They’ve got beta builds already circling around for testing, so it’s not far away.
It looks like it (FTMS for Tax NEO 1.1) still hasn’t been released?
Contacted Tacx-Support. They replied very fast.
OK. Now that’s a trainer I might actually enjoy! Was hoping for a better carrying handle at a minimum and smaller/lighter if at all possible. It’s now on my wish list. Looking forward to the full review with comparison to Pioneer for stroke analysis and L/R balance. Really intrigued about the upcoming new features.
Cool to see you also rode the “Halloween” bike with the “skeleton” frame/wheel upgrade on Wednesday. Think maybe tacx/Zwift should enable the Neo to make bone creaking sounds when riding on Halloween … ;-)
On cadence and spinning things, wouldn’t a portable tachometer work? might also work on drone propellers too? Not sure how much $$$ to be more accurate than sensors attached to bike parts, especially for slower revolutions.
Revolutions per minute = RPM
What does RPM’s mean, RPM possessing something?
NO handlebar for easy transport … DOH ! Otherwise thanks for making an awesome product
Hi,
Is there a difference between Neo 1 and 2 on the stand-alone mode? I mean, I like to trainer unplugged and the Neo automatically add more resistance without changing bike gears. Is the Neo 2 better (more realistic) in that way?
sorry for my English
No difference there.
Is plastic used in Neo 2’s frame ? Which parts are of plastic and which are of metal ?
The outer casing is plastic, but directly under that it’s a metal frame.
how many millimeters from the cassette to neo2 body?
How do you rate the Kickr Core up to this? Im on a slight of a budget, and is the Core a better deal for me then? I am also a Star Wars fan and the looks of the NEO is pretty damn awesome. And which of the three trainers, kicker, Kicker core and NEO vibrates the least end is the quietest?
I don’t think you’ll be upset (at all) with a KICKR CORE. No question there.
Insofar as sound, here’s a comparison I did between exactly those three: link to youtube.com
Vibration-wise, I haven’t done a test there, though, I suspect the Neo 1 would produce the most vibrations. I know Tacx did some stuff in the Neo 2 to reduce vibrations, but I haven’t figure out a good way to test that yet. Unfortunately, the exact flooring surfaces in your apartment/etc tend to dictate how things vary in terms of vibrations.
Unfortunately the new DCR Cave is just a concrete beast (almost a foot thick concrete floors), and our home is on the ground floor. :(
Thanks for the great feedback. In my paincave I had concrete before, but now i have a laminate floor. The reason for my question was that my neighbour (the person living above us) has complained about noise from my tacx sartori trainer. You say that the core is a great match-up then? being on a budget? :) Keep up the good work, love your channel and site.
What happened to the tacx neo smart bike?
It’s slated to start shipping in about 3-4 weeks (currently).
Do you know if it will have the updated internal hardware of the neo2? Thanks
Yes, it will.
Hey,
Looking to get the Neo 2 next week. Clever Training has It on its .com website but oddly no mention on .co.uk.
Any ideas on U.K. availability?
Cheers
I took delivery of the NEO2 yesterday (Glasgow) Yay, or so I thought, as the packaging had previously been opened and resealed along with a number of scuffs and a couple of chips on the outer metal flywheel casing? Emailed an enquiry and awaiting a reply to confirm if this is ‘normal’ for a brand new premium product. Ordered direct from Tacx too so I’m feeling fairly deflated on the customer experience side of getting a brand new thing. On the plus side everything else looked fine but haven’t used it yet just in case. And I’m champing at the bit to try it out so I’m currently stuck between the preverbials.
As for availability, Tacx show limited Euro stock with all other areas weeks away. There’s a few UK sites now showing pre-orders for early next month.
Hi, I ordered a NEO2 from Mantel and received the home trainer 2 days ago. I had the same experience as you. When I opened the parcel, I noticed that, although the parcel wasnt not damaged on the outside, the polystyrene inside was broken … Strange … also some of the polystyrene was inside the machine. I was told to hoover it …
And finnaly when I started using it, an odd metallic sound came up …
It is quite a shame when you spend 1300€ (+ all accessories !) on a “brand” new product. I am now waiting for Mantel (and tacx) to confirm what they will do about it …
I have serious doubts about neo 2 reliability and feel like being the “Beta customer” for this new machine …
RE: The odd metal sound, when did it occur?
A) Did you check that your rear derailluer isn’t touching it in certain gears?
B) Any chance it was on Zwift while riding on ‘off-road’ terrain (dirt)? There appears to be a bug in the algorithm that makes a wonky sound there (road feel bug), the second you hit pavement it goes away.
I forget to update my moan!
Don’t get too down about it. Although they were a bit over their own deadline for answering queries, their turnaround for a replacement was fast, even with their limited availability. From dropping the original unit at the courier depot, to getting a replacement only took about a week. So double thumbs for their customer support. Since then though I’ve had some minor issues to overcome. As this was my first trainer and a total noob to using them I found myself struggling on finding the correct combination of adapters to fit my bike (2016 Canyon Spectral mtb). After finally getting it all put together I had to dial in the rear derailleur and after a trial run of two minutes, found part of the inner brake mech was scoring into the neo housing so I’ve had to jam in a bit of rubber to stop it from wearing though until I find a better solution. Really hoping there’s nothing internal the casing can be pressed against. And yes the occasional metallic rubbing/ticking sound too but that has been intermittent and not enough to have me worried (yet). All in all though I’m enjoying it when I can and currently trying to decide on which app to subscribe (Trainerroad- untested, and Zwift- still trialing, and will start their own premium trial once I’m happy with my setup. Looking forward to cycling along using actual video footage :) My biggest concern at the moment is how to mitigate the low frequency noise levels generated on carpeted wooden flooring. Resonates more than I’m comfortable with so will need to experiment on soundproofing. Any and all suggestions much appreciated.
Best of luck.
Hi,
A) Yes, it was not touching
B) I have not used any aplication yet. The noise came up while cycling (not even used nluetooth).
I ahave to admit that MANTEL wasvery quick to sort this out. I sent them a video and they received an answer from tacx in the same day. My new home trainer is already on the way. I’ll let you know about it if you want to.
Will this fit Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Disc frames? Wahoo tells me their direct drives do NOT. Thanks for the info!
There is no mention of Campagnolo compatibility in your reviews… any reason why?
There are still plenty of campy users.
I often mention whether it is or isn’t compatible in my actual reviews, which this isn’t. This is a first-look style post, not a full review.
It’s something I’ve been wanting to put into the product comparison database however.
I read somewhere else that “the Tacx Neo freehub is Edco, meaning that it is both Campagnolo and Shimano/SRAM compatible” – can you confirm?
Just use a shimano casette with you campa groupset, Ive done then and have no shifting issues once.
Is this so ? Isn’t it a bit more noisy ? Some cogs go perfectly fine, others make a bit more noise, no ?
I drive an older Elite Real Turbo Muin B+, but on that trainer I started with a Shimano cassette (ultegra), but that didn’t shift very well IMO. Changed the hub, and ended up as a happy man again. Seemed like (for that trainer) there is a reason why another hub exists…
But curious for your experience in combination with the Neo
Hi Ray,
Ready to buy a new trainer. Difficult to decide between Neo 2, Kickr 18 and Core … I use ERG mode quite a bit. How would you rate Neo and the Kickr in terms of ERG mode operation?
The idea of having a really accurate trainer with no calibration is attractive. However, having to spin down the Kickr every few weeks is not a big deal to me.
Thanks,
Morten
Pretty darn similiar between those for ERG mode. I’m sure there’s 1% type edge cases where one might be better than the other, but for the ERG workouts I’ve tried (including things like 30×30’s and such), there’s no tangible difference for ERG mode.
Wondering as well about clearance on the non-driveaide. Comparing pictures between the original Nep and the Neo 2, it looks like the “cutout” on the non-driveside is angled downward more on the Neo 2 and provides more clearance. On the original neo, the left chainstay on the non-driveside contacts the plastic on my P5. Hoping the Neo 2 can solve that.
How fast can the Neo 2 change resistance for the purposes of ERG intervals? With my OG Wahoo KICKR it’s 2 seconds behind what’s shown on the screen but ends up to be the same time.
How high can I set the ERG for a given interval? OG KICKR is 999W. Personal record was 20 seconds at that value but would like to see if I can extract higher wattages if I had an ERG trainer that could put on some serious wattage (for reference I’m 100kg so w/kg is still terrible).
I can try it tomorrow, but I can’t do more than 1,000w on my legs. Also, the KICKR 999 limit was just within the default app, you can set it higher for 3rd party apps like TrainerRoad.
The trick is to setup a workout with a mostly very low wattage. After a bit of warmup you spin your legs 120-150rpm right before the 1000 watts + interval happens. Try to hold the cadence as the pain happens.
Hi Ray, I heard the TA adapter set includes 1mm, 1.5mm and 1.75mm thread pitch endcaps now. Is this true?
I think it does, see attached picture.
Did you do any more testing regarding the slippage?
I use the virtual mountain routes on Rouvy so often get out of the saddle (around 240w), drop a gear and put in a short effort (very quickly up to 550w). Is it likely to slip then?
There is a good discussion on the Neo owners group: link to facebook.com
I started it because I had similar questions. Bottom line is, I think, you should not have any issues unless you go up a climb, let speed drop and then hammer it. IRL you might wheelie the bike with such an effort … ;)
I just want to share my experience with the Neo 2 so far.
I exchanged my Neo 1 for a Neo 2 hopping to get some pedal efficiency and/or L/R balance being transmitted via ANT+ or Bluetooth to my Garmin Edge 1030. As far as I can tell the Neo 2 does not send it.
Next thing is the cadence, which supposed to be improved. But actually it has not. I tested on Tuesday my brand new Neo 2 and it failed to register a cadence. Only when I move my feet inward (they hit the chain stay) it starts tracking the cadence.
I contacted Tacx support and they told me sometimes the sensor gets disturbed/disconnected after transportation (I live in The Netherlands where the factory of Tacx is located). So they suggested to exchange the unit. Today I picked up another unit, but same problem :(
I do have an old full suspension MTB mounted to the Neo 2 with a chain stay that is lower then normal. I now suspect this chain stay to interfere with the cadence sensor.
So please be warned that the cadence sensor does not always work with every bike!
Happy training
I ‘fixed’ the cadence issue for now by extending my crank arm, see picture, until Tacx comes up with a better solution ;)
*Update*
Cadence issue is still there. I replaced the MTB frame by a Cube cross frame with normal chain stays, but the problem is still there.
Tacx support is aware of this issue and the told me that more MTB frames might have the same issue. They hope to fix it with a firmware upgrade or else they will use my ‘fix’ as basis for a more permanent/professional fix.
I also tested the new Garmin Edge 1030 6.45 beta (which includes cycling dynamics metrics) but this does not work with the Neo 2. So far I have not been able to get L/R or pedal dynamics from the Neo 2 to show on any device/app :(. I tested using their desktop app on Mac and the app on Android.
*Update*
Firmware 0.0.18 seems to have solved my cadence issue in most cases. Only doing standing stomps < 60 RPM (via Stages PM) cadence on the Neo goes back to 0 most of the times.
Gentlemen,
I just returned a NEO 1 after verifing that it does not work with my road bike and mtb, both disk brake.
Does anyone know about disk brake compatibility with NEO 2 ?
What about Wahoo… by looking at pictures it seems better.
I would love to know if the new Neo would work with disk brakes too. I have a 2017 Lynskey Helix Pro with TA and Disks that I would like to run on this trainer.
I noticed that you went right to Zwift for ease of use for video demo. My question is how easy/user friendly is the TACX platform? I currently have the TACX T2050 Ironman Virtual Reality Trainer…..and it is not easy to work with, importing and exporting workouts/real ride data etc.
As always, thanks for your reviews, input, and valuable data the community relies on! You rock.
Chirs
Always enjoy your reviews and advice.
Looking to buy Neo 2 to replace my Flux (it’s my 3rd one)
Want to buy the Neo 2 but Clever is only showing the Neo 1 and then again at full price. Many other retailers have Neo 2 in stock!
What’s going on????
Where are you looking? In the US, Amazon shows 2 dealers offering the Neo 2 – Brands Cycle and Ride With Us, both $100 more than Clever’s price of $1399. Clever does show the Neo 2, expected due date at the end of December. Am I missing something?
To confirm I’m looking an Clever’s European site which as of 5 minutes ago still has no mention whatsoever of the Neo 2 and is still hopefully/desperately? trying to sell the original Neo at full price….. am wondering if the 2 facts are connected. Tried to contact Clever but getting anything meaningful out of them was like pulling teeth. At the end of the day it’s like…. “Whatever” life is too short. Google showed me 5 retailers that will bite my hand off for a £1200 sale and deliver free on next day delivery.
Anyway am now sorted with my Neo 2.
Ho hum!
Question: The Wahoo Fitness app has a wonderful ERG mode through which you can simply state the watts you want to ride at and change that wattage quickly. The Neo 2 is not compatible with the app. I cannot identify another app which has a simple absolute power interface – everything seems to be done off % FTP which is starting to bug me. Any suggestions?
Hmm, I was going to recommend Hurts Ergo – but it doesn’t appear to work with non-Wahoo trainers either: link to dcrainmaker.com
Maybe checkout a few of the other apps from the list?
Thanks. It is a fantastic list but I don’t think the Wahoo Fitness can be bettered for simplicity and function. I’ll just have to go on punching the +5w button on Tacx/Hurts etc!
Hi Ray,
I’m in a budget and have therefore a question. Which trainer would you buy, Kickr Core or Tacx Neo 2015 edition?
Also, does the Kickr Core fold a bit for storage?
Cheers and thanks for your great reviews!
Pelayo
If they were the same price, and assuming no compatibility issues, then I’d probably lean towards Neo.
However, if you want KICKR CLIMB, then I’d likely lean towards CORE (since at this point the Neo isn’t compatible with CLIMB).
Both fold a bit, though it’s mostly a wash as to which one folds the ‘smallest’.
Thanks!
Here in the Netherlands there are some interesting deals with the old Neo and taking into account the need for a cassette for the Kickr Core, the difference in price is not so big, relatively speaking.
Regarding the folding, I had the impression that the Neo folded much smaller but it was maybe just an optical illusion.
P.F.
Note that the Neo needs a cassette as well, so that bits a wash (yes, seriously, somehow Tacx doesn’t include a cassette with the most expensive direct drive trainer on the market).
For the folding, it’s sorta like comparing a banana to a largeish pear. Different shapes, but ultimately about the same volume. Ok, my analogy is horrible, but you get the point.
Tacx Neo2 or Elite Drivo II. Which do you think is the best one? thx.
My Elite Drivo-I control board died and I didn’t want to be without a trainer for the approx 2 weeks it will take for the replacement board to come from Italy. So I pickup a Neo2 a couple days ago. When I moved my aluminum frame Cannondale Synapse training bike to the Neo2 I used the quick-release that came in the Neo box and didn’t know I needed to install the spacer under the left side mount. This resulted in some chain line shifting problems. So it took me a while to figure out that I need the spacer. Here is a picture of it installed. Hope this helps other folks.
Which do you prefer? The Drivo or the Neo?
I think the Neo is the better trainer. I find it smoother, quieter, and more stable than the Drivo-1. The Neo’s motor driven flywheel on descents is a big diff in feel between the Drivo-1 and the Neo. The Neo’s road surface vibrations don’t do much for me though.
I was looking at the Kicker Core also but I am using an Apple 4K TV for Zwift. I didn’t want to deal with the having to use the Zwift companion app for Heart rate, Apple TV only has 3 Bluetooth channels.
Has anyone received Neo 2 from Clever Training? It seems everybody else in the US has them available for shipping but not Clever. I emailed them and got the generic “we’re expecting them soon.” I’ve had mine on order since 11/17. Local shops around here even have them.
I ordered mine from them on November 8, and it shipped yesterday. Should have it tomorrow. I saw a post on the Neo Owners Facebook group from someone who also ordered on the 8th and theirs shipped last week. I’m guessing they must just now be getting them in batches and fulfilling the pre-orders.
Travis, I ordered mine at same time as you. The Neo 2 from CT came in today via FedEx. Hope you get yours soon as it’s the bees knees! I have had an Elite Direto for 6 weeks (900 virtual mikes on Zwift) now and from just doing a short test ride on Zwift, I am impressed with the Neo 2! Needless to say, this is going to be my main Zwift rig and the Direto will be used by the wife while ride together.
ray You meantioned that you don’t need a power cable but than you are using one?
Could you elaborate a bit on this? Can I use the neo with Zwift or TrainerRoad without power cable does it generate it own power ? Does it connect to computer even without power cable
How does this works
The main reason I use it is just simplicity.
It makes it easier to pair to apps since it’s always powered on. Allows me to know before jumping on the bike that everything is happy, versus jumping on and finding something is amiss.
It doesn’t need a cable though, it generates it’s own power once pedaling. But if not pedaling, it’ll shut off.
Ray, just to clarify, without the power cable it has full functionality when pedalling? I assume therefore no “assisted drive” on descents? That needs the cable yes?
Thanks for the test. It helped me a lot to find the right decision. By the way you’ve already helped me several times with your tests and or comments!
I had heard that connecting the cable adds the downhill grade simulation…(?)
Would there be any advantage in buying direct from Tacx website vs CT wrt if there was a warranty or support issue (USA)?
Sorry for the delay on the warranty piece – no change there. For US buyers it’s actually handled by the exact same distributor no matter who you buy it from in the US.
Obviously with CT you get the 10% discount, and it helps the site. But I won’t call you too many bad names if you buy direct. :)
I have Neo 2.
It is wonderful, but i see that in Zwift cadenze is crazy, 0, 90, 135, 101, 59…. rpm always.
I already have ultimate release software.
Hi, are Disc Bikes with 140mm Flatmount and 135mm quick Release supported?
Can the Neo 2 output the power balance to a head unit such as Garmin 1000 / Wahoo Bolt
It currently does not, I tested with an Edge 1030 on latest (beta). Tacx support told me they are planning to or working on it.
Hi,
I have one question about Tacx Neo 2 trainer. I,ve just started to use this great mashine, but something seems to be wrong – my bike is not in straight axis with trainer. Bike is turned right and it’s mostly visible from the back. I know, that Neo 2 left side is little bit wider and it could be optical illusion, but it’s not the case ;)
Did you recognise same same issue with your trainer?
Plese check a photo.
Regarding axle-compatibility the Neo is not compatible with Cervelo and Focus R.A.T axles. Tacx does not have a 12mm hole through the hub like most other trainers do, so a 9 mm skewer and cap adapters need to be used. This does not work very well with R.A.T.
You also might have to take the rear disc brake caliper off the frame on bikes with Flat mount brake mounts – like Focus Paralane.
Flatmount are the standard for disc roadbikes right now and the whole roadbike market change to disc. So Tacx release a new trainer without support for the most sold roadbikes at this time?
Can believe this, that would be really bad product management.
My Neo 2 creaks like crazy when out of the saddle. Very annoying.
Have been having a lot of problems solving for the Cervelo S3 R.A.T. Axel with my TACX. I have a Flux 2 which is the same set up as Neo, but my Flux 2 came with the 12mm through adapter kit, however, it only has included in the set an end piece with a 1mm threading and 1.5mm threading but no 1.75mm threading.
I was able to find the Cervélo OEM rear derailleur hanger that is threaded (you will have remove your RAT style rear derailleur hanger and switch your through axle to quick release threaded, not RAT) but the Cervelo rear derailleur hanger threads with 1.75mm spacing.
The instructions show a 1.75mm is available — yet it just doesn’t appear to available anywhere! Does anyone have the third 1.75mm threaded version?
I have just buy the Neo Tacx 2, and some parts of plastic have some crunch noise. Any one with this problem? any solution?
Regards
I am getting mine replaced
link to tacxfaqx.com
I’ve been looking at Wahoo KickR’s and got one recently. Only to be disappointed with its reliability (dead optical sensor out of the box). Doesn’t inspire much confidence getting another one long term.
Since I’m new to looking at the Neo or Neo 2, how would you all rate the reliability of the Neos?
Thanks in advance
Can I get pedal stroke analysis on my Garmin Edge yet?
Did they fix/address the low RPM vibration issue with the Neo2?
I have a Neo 1 that has always felt “notchy” at low RPM and lower power levels (through the pedals/bike). It’s like a low-grade version of road feel. I can feel it at higher power levels, but lactic acid usually becomes the dominant thing on my mind…
I’ve read that some people do not experience it and the pedaling is smooth.
Yes i have a wahoo kicker that has never been a problem, it has been great probably have 10,000 plus miles on it. It’s starting to get a little loud could be in my head too. Lol. I was wondering if you were buying a new one which one would you buy, the neo2 or another new wahoo kicker? DO all of my riding on Zwift also
Thanks
The tilt on the Neo2 is excessive! It feels unnatural, unstable and power robbing. I don’t ever flop all over the place like on the Neo2 when I ride on the road. The worst part is that the flopping robs from the pedaling power and reduces the power going to the drive chain. My average wattage reduces by more than 20% when I went from the rigid Tacx Vortex trainer to the Neo2. It feels more like a downgrade!
Tilting doesn’t rob you of anything.
Where do you think the power comes from to tilt the bike left or right?
If you’re seeing differences of 20% between your Vortex and NEO, it’s because one of them is wrong. Simple as that. And I’d bet a pretty substantial sum of money you’re Vortex was the wrong one.
As for the slight bit of tilting side to side – most people actually like that. It’s a feature, since it allows a little bit of give, akin to out on the real road where you bike moves and tilts. Slight bit of movement in trainers/platforms also increases comfort for longer trainer rides, but it means your body ever so subtly moves to different muscles/parts of your butt. Trek showed this with Saris last year in a study (and of course, is something everyone already know).
As for tilting, it’s unlikely to reduce drivetrain power since that’s not how power transfer works. Your legs output the power to the crank arms, which drive the train, which in turn drive the cassette that’s connected to the NEO. No part of that cares at all that you’ve tilted 1-2*.
Your core could however require extra work to maintain stability, but I think it’s probably more likely just a case of getting used to it. In all the years the NEO has been out, this is the first complaint of this nature I’ve seen.
Cheers!
The tilt issue on the NEO is the permanent tilt to the right. It is not the slight movement from side to side which is a nice feature. Adjusting trainer with e.g. cardboard underneath or krepning your bars turned lleft is not a good feature
Mist people mix tiltning and rocking. I would still like to hear from Tacx regarding the permanent tilting
If it’s permanently stuck to one side, then something is defective and I’d reach out to Tacx support.
I’d love it for my Vortex to be wrong. Unfortunately, I don’t think so. My average wattage on the Neo2 is about the same as my average on my road rides. The difference is that my road rides have a lot of obstructions to cause my average wattage to be lower such as drafting, slowing down for stop signs/lights, slowing down for curves, slowing down for traffic, … My average wattage on the Neo2 should be a lot higher given that I don’t have any of those obstructions to force me to ease up on my pedaling. BTW, I ride about 7000 miles a year so I am acutely aware of these differences.
The Neo2 tilting is unnatural and unstable. On a road ride, the law of physic says the faster the forward motion the higher the resistence to the change in motion to swaying left or right. In other words, I am a lot more stable on a road ride despite my hard pedaling. The Neo2 feels unnatural because the faster you go, the harder you pedal, and the more unstable and the more tilting left/right you get.
I am looking into building a custom brace to reduce the excessive titl.
I have the same issue for my new neo 2. it always slightly leans to the right. Just wondering it’s a defect for the one I received or it’s a common/design issue for all neo 2? Is it necessary to exchange or contact the tacx support?
What are the best 3rd party apps to record and view left/right data? (Apologies if this has already been asked).
Hello deare
Am facing a mismatch between my Cerve´lo Bike fitted with Cerve´lo R.A.T Quick Release (PAT . 20 2013 009 812 0), and my Tacx NEO2 Indoor trainer. The supplied from TACX Universal quick release for placing your bike in the trainer is not suitable. What is your advice? Which parts would matches my Bike?
Ahmed Al Ajmi
QassabAhmed@gmail.com
Tel. +968 99344757
I’m a little late to the party here, having only just purchased a Tacx Neo 2. Like Ahmed I found that my bike does not fit the trainer using any of the various parts supplied.
I use a GT Grade (gravel bike) as my main trainer, and if I try to use the QR supplied, the rear forks are just too wide to fit, plus the disc brake is pushed hard up against the side of the trainer.
I’ve purchased a couple of different conversion spindles to allow the QR to be fitted through the middle and haven’t yet found the correct length (148mm was too long – now waiting for 142 and 135 to test).
Does anybody know if it’s worth contacting Tacx/Garmin about this, in case they are able to supply a part that will resolve the issue?
Thank you!
Thanks for the very nice comparison!
Due to an accident i need to look for my right knee and therefore i bought a tacx neo 2 se last week.
As you showed in the tacx software there is a nice L/R power and smothness graph.
But there is nothing to analyse afterwards, or?
Do you know how to use (get) these L/R Data into Zwift or so?
KR