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• Discussion (56)

56 Comments

1. pan

   November 15, 2020 at 8:12 pm #1

   Regarding point 1, i would suggest to Ray to stay away from the woke stuff, and people who promote the idea of equity rather than equality.

   Reply
   • MaGAMom

     November 15, 2020 at 10:22 pm #2

     Seriously Ray needs to stay in his lane. This woke snowflake BS isn’t what we come here for at all. There essentially is no racism in this sport, just look at people like Egan Bernal. There is equal opportunity to compete for everyone.

     Reply
   • Scrap Iron

     November 15, 2020 at 11:53 pm #3

     Wow! How fragile you must be to be unable to read this person’s comments and opinion. I want to say thank you,Ray, for posting this. I love cycling and I believe that there is significant racism Because the few black people have talked about it openly. It’s sad that so little is done to people like Gianni Moscon and others for their behaviors. There will be no change unless people realize there is a problem. There is also no reason to avoid this subject and pretend like it’s not there and there is no need to tell Ray what he should do either. It’s a free country/world and people can choose to read what they like.

     Reply
   • Okey Dokey

     November 16, 2020 at 12:06 am #4

     306.

     Reply
   • sandman7799

     November 16, 2020 at 12:11 am #5

     Seriously, you need to stay away from this website. Your racist trope is not what I come here for.

     Reply
   • Changren Y.

     November 16, 2020 at 1:31 am #6

     Spoken like a MAGAmom. You don’t have to be here if you don’t like what Ray has to say.

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 3:58 am #7

     Hi Pan-

     I generally find that when people use the word ‘woke’, it’s because they don’t understand something. In this case, I’m guessing it’s because you don’t understand the realities of racism. Which isn’t to say I could possibly understand the full extent of every racial issue – far from it. But ultimately, dropping news like this on a Saturday afternoon was meant to hide it. I found that noteworthy of attention, especially in the context that one of those companies makes one of the leading sports tech products in their market.

     One can have a valid debate on ones ability to change (improve) their views around racism, or what’s an appropriate consequence for an action from a pro athlete, or any number of other things in that sphere. Just as one shouldn’t be bullied for supporting a given political candidate. However, what’s far less debatable is that a professional athlete should have no consequences for publicly/openly liking (and thus endorsing) racist comments. And ultimately, whether a professional athlete likes it or not, their ability to make an income/career in sporting depends nearly 100% on sponsorships, which is in turn providing enough value/ROI to a brand to make paying them worthwhile. Actions they take will, like it or not, change the math on that formula.

     As for MaGAMom (or anyone else)…shrug.

     I get to choose my own lanes here…because it’s my own pool. If you don’t like my lanes, or my pool – you’re welcome to find your own pool somewhere else. Ultimately, your clicks, views, and as I recently pointed out to a DCR Supporter – money, isn’t welcomed here. I’ll happily refund any DCR Supporter that disagrees with me on the topic.

     Cheers,
     Ray

     Reply
   • fisao

     November 16, 2020 at 6:37 am #8

     Thank you Ray for this statement, it makes me feel better.

     Have a great day!

     Reply
   • DocMax

     November 16, 2020 at 6:42 am #9

     Well said Ray.

     MaGAMom – your reaction to this is driven by fear and ignorance. The conversation will continue whether you keep your head in the sand or not.

     Reply
   • pan

     November 16, 2020 at 6:58 am #10

     I don’t believe there is racism in cycling.
     There are woke people trying to convince people that there is an create a problem where there is none.
     This is my last visit to your site.

     Reply
   • pan

     November 16, 2020 at 7:13 am #11

     and fyi

     – every visitor of your site and every supporter belongs to the group of people which the woke crowd calls “white supremacist”
     – the vast majority of the cycling industry customer base belongs to the group of people which the woke crowd calls “white supremacist”
     – there is an expression that all those aligned with the woke crowd that they better keep in mind, which is “go woke go broke”

     and by the way, the only one african based cycling team is going to fold this year. I am wondering why there is not one single african business in the whole continent willing to invest some money…after all it is an african team….and cycling is very popular in africa…

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 7:17 am #12

     I thought you said this was the last visit to the site?

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 7:47 am #13

     Ok, I actually read the article in question. She said.

     “She doesn’t believe in feminism and has shown she also agrees with racism and transphobia.”

     This is in reference to Chloe liking some tweets. So, then I go read the tweets she liked. They were neither racist or homophobic. There are real problems with how to handle trans athletes. What classification, etc. Also she liked a tweet saying white privilege dopes not exist. I think it is ok for someone to think that.

     If we start canceling everyone who thinks differently we are in big trouble. If someone is truly racist, meaning, actually treating people differently because of their race then we need to call for change there. But the needle for what is racism or homophobic is moving to far to the left.

     Reply
   • pan

     November 16, 2020 at 8:05 am #14

     …and as a last contribution a couple of entertaining short videos related to the source of the woke crowd:

     link to youtube.com

     link to youtube.com

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 8:33 am #15

     Hi Real Bob-

     I think the challenge with assuming that it’s “OK” for someone to like something, is that there shouldn’t be ramifications of that like. Pretending that white privilege doesn’t exist, or the Kaepernick bits, ultimately do increase social media algorithms around how tweets and content are surfaced to their followers. And more specifically, the sources of those specific tweets/posts – which in this particular case are individuals who do actively promote racist ideals.

     If a private person wants to say those things – that’s largely their business. Unfortunate, but that’s their thing. However, a professional athlete, especially one likely as a role model to younger people – is arguably someone that should be held to a higher standard.

     And as we’ve seen lately, there’s a very thin line to being racist to a person/persons, and promoting ideas that further racism without directly committing the act to someone.

     I do agree – I think cancel culture is often dangerous. People do change, and cancel culture doesn’t give them that opportunity to realize their wrongs and change. My main point here was around SRAM’s handling of this.

     Cheers.

     Reply
   • Azure

     November 16, 2020 at 9:37 am #16

     THANK YOU Ray for using your platform to help promote a better world, and standing up against racism.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 10:13 am #17

     Thanks for the response Ray, this is all an interesting thought experiment about where we can draw lines as society.

     To take it to the extreme, if the KKK was against affirmative action, as an example, and someone liked a tweet where the KKK said this. Then, one would say if you like the tweet you like the organization. While I think this is a slippery slope, I can see the logic of making that connection. But, we should allow people to clarify rather than casting them out.

     Regards to your comment “pretending that white privilege doesn’t exist. That concerns me. Because I think there are different ways to look at this, and that tone implies there is only one way to look at it. Which is where the “woke” culture is going.

     I don’t believe white privilege exists. Does that make me racist? By some it would. But those that would accuse me know nothing about me nor my background. I grew up dirt poor, government handouts type of poor. I worked my ass off in my life and made big sacrifices to get where I am today. I have been and worked around a lot of people of different backgrounds. In my view there is only one type of privilege that exists, and it is neither right nor wrong, it just is. There is wealth privilege. People who have money have an advantage over people who don’t Just as people who are good looking or athletic have advantage over people that don’t.

     If people really took a good hard look at themselves they would see the only thing holding them back is themselves, regardless of race. Find your talent and maximize it. I guess it is easier to pretend there is some artificial hate out there holding you back.

     FYI, before you start celebrating Kapernick you should actually read the ideals he supports. He is hate filled.

     Anyways, love the site. Thanks again for what you do.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 10:20 am #18

     And you said this “held to a higher standard”. This is the the concern. Who sets the higher standard.

     What is a professional athlete came out against abortion. Right now, those who are pro abortion would want that person canceled, and the opposite is true.

     If someone says something you don’t like, they are a racist. You see this everywhere now. Racism accusations are being used as a power. And we as a society need to stop this. We need to allow open dialogue without fear of people losing their lives.

     FYI, I have a black brother in law and he has the same concerns I have about how racism is being used as a weapon. He would have liked the tweet about Kapernick, does that make him racist? I would actually say he probably has more concerns, because it affects him more. People are becoming less open and welcoming because people are just afraid to say anything so they are removing themselves from society. The “woke” crowd is making it tough for people to talk to each other.

     Reply
   • Amarynth

     November 16, 2020 at 10:36 am #19

     Hey Ray, keep up the good work. I just subscribed.

     Reply
   • White Privilege Is Real

     November 16, 2020 at 2:02 pm #20

     If you don’t believe white privilege exists, you are part of the problem.* This is not to say that money doesn’t bring privilege with it; of course it does, and income inequality is a huge problem. It’s is beyond debate, however, that a poor white guy doesn’t run the same risk as getting shot by a cop during a traffic stop as a wealthy black guy. It’s also beyond debate that the poor white guy is much less likely to be confronted by a homeowner in a wealthy area than the rich black guy. The list of examples like this is endless.

     *Being part of the problem doesn’t make you a racist. It simply means that by denying this reality you are making it harder for society to solve the issue.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 2:45 pm #21

     Thanks for proving my point. I am part of the problem because I think the cause of equality has nothing to do with race. I am part of the problem because I think differently than you.

     I would encourage you to look at the actual statistics on poverty vs crime. You would see, if you actually look at the numbers, race has nothing to do with policing. I know this is hard to hear, but that is what the actual statistics show. Things like a black person is more likely to get shot by a black cop than a white cop. Things like where police forces are majority minority (see LA) black homicides are higher! Again, I know this is hard to take. It is tough, and work, but I encourage you to look at the actual numbers and analysis, not on some website that has an agenda. If I am wrong, I am willing to admit I am wrong but the actual numbers don’t back your narrative.

     Did you know that in the USA, if you get a high school diploma and don’t have a child out of wedlock you are almost guaranteed a life of at least middle class regardless of your starting poverty level? If you get a college degree or trade skill (plumber, etc) and don’t have a child out of wedlock you are almost guaranteed to be in the top 10% of the wealthiest people? These numbers are regardless of race or gender. Go look at the single mother rate in the USA black community vs any other community. If you want to understand why there is wealth disparity you have to understand what is going on in the communities. But I guess it is just easier to point to “a racist hiding in the closet”.

     One other thing. In the USA, the black populations wealth ( by any metric, cumulative, average, etc) is hirer than anywhere else in the world and its not even close.

     So no, its not beyond debate, only when close minded people want to make it beyond debate. Making it beyond a “civilized” debate is making it harder for society to solve issues.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 2:48 pm #22

     here this a quick 2 second google search on single parent families. The most successful race in the USA by wealth is the Asian population. The two races that are struggling to gain wealth are native Americans and African Americans. Look at the link and see if there is any correlation!.

     link to datacenter.kidscount.org

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 2:53 pm #23

     sorry, one more.

     A 2016 Harvard researcher’s study found that Black people are no more likely to be killed by police officers than are white people. A 2019 study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found “no evidence of anti-Black .disparities across” fatal shootings by police. Both white and Black people are far more likely to be murdered by an acquaintance of their own race than they are to be shot dead by the police.

     These studies and statistics are out there for anyone to read.

     However, if you look at studies based on poverty, lack of wealth has a strong correlation with being killed.

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 3:10 pm #24

     That challenge with that 2016 Harvard study is that it only covered 4% of the black population, because it only focused on a handful of major metro cities. There has been numerous other studies since then that have had a wider data set that shows the true extent of the problem.

     The 2019 study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences study has since been retracted: link to retractionwatch.com (or another article explaining why the study was so flawed: link to washingtonpost.com)

     A more recent Harvard study shows that blacks were 3.23x more likely to be killed by police officers than whites: link to hsph.harvard.edu

     “However, if you look at studies based on poverty, lack of wealth has a strong correlation with being killed.”

     Because it’s an endless circle. In fact, that original 2016 study you referenced highlights that incredibly well, it shows that blacks are far more likely in almost every police interaction case to be overwhelmingly disproportional to blacks*. Which means they’re more likely than white person to end up in jail, which in turn increases single-parent families, and ultimately the cycle continues.

     *https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html

     Reply
   • White Privilege Is Real

     November 16, 2020 at 3:59 pm #25

     Nope. The issue isn’t that you think differently; it’s that you are wrong. In other words, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Ray already handed you your head on one issue. Here are a few links that counter some of the other nonsense you are spewing:

     Fact: Per capita, cops shoot more blacks than whites. link to news.northeastern.edu

     Fact: There are many studies that support the general point that minorities are “policed” differently than whites. Here’s a good collection, including some “dissenting” studies. link to washingtonpost.com

     Fact: Bermuda is a majority black country. It is wealthier than the black community in the U.S. on every per capita measure you can think of. Here are just a handful of the links that prove this:

     link to en.wikipedia.org

     link to en.wikipedia.org.

     link to en.wikipedia.org

     link to en.wikipedia.org

     I’m done wasting time responding to you as either don’t know what you are talking about or you are lying. In closing, though, you probably should note two things. First, if you continue to harp on “babies out of wedlock” as somehow explaining black poverty, you ought not be surprised if someone more judgmental than me calls you a racist. Second, if you are going to try to convince us you are smart, you probably you should know the difference between “higher” and “hirer” (and that’s generously assuming you accidentally used the obscure word for someone who hires someone else, as opposed to just don’t know how to spell “higher”).

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 4:43 pm #26

     Again, you bring up another systemic problem that is oft called racist, but is not in fact racist but based on wealth. Bail. That endless circle happens a lot because of bail. Someone is accused of a crime, can’t afford bail and sits in jail for years while their case resolves. Maybe they can’t afford a good lawyer, etc. In that time, they lose their job, lose their house etc. I saw this almost happen to a “white” friend of mine. Falsely accused of a crime. Luckily he could afford bail.

     As far as the studies. I didn’t review the data above, but I will. Sometimes studies mess with the numbers to get the answers they want. Maybe they don’t screen for some data etc and end up biasing the data. This happens on both sides of every argument. I work with statistics and see statistical bias daily. The Washington Post is notoriously bad about “fudging the numbers”.

     Even the data you cited doesn’t prove racism. Because it doesn’t evaluate cause. Police are not just up and walking around and shooting black people, that is not a thing. Black people are shot at a hire rate, 33/million than white 13/million. But black people are also committing disproportionately more crime. More interactions with police would give you a higher death rate.

     So again, people always say more deaths equals racism. The reality is not the case. And by simply throwing the racism tag on it it subverts the search for the actual cause. I have to find the data, but I think it was LA where a largely minority police force kills more black people than anywhere. I may be mixing up the location.

     My point in all of this, is we are creating a society where people believe race is the cause of all wrongs. Just like the person above, if I don’t believe in white privilege I am wrong or part of the problem. That is killing the world right now. We have to be able to disagree on controversial topics and it be ok.

     Black people have had more success in the USA than anywhere. If you are black in this world the one place you want to be is the USA. By every number that is the case.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 4:46 pm #27

     Typing this on my phone so spelling/word/autocorrect mistakes are bound to happen.

     Saying baby’s out of wedlock is racist?

     again, that is part of the problem.

     You should listen to Shelby Steele, he cites many of the same causes that I quoted. He is black. I guess that makes him a racist black person? This is getting confusing.

     Reply
   • The Real Bob

     November 16, 2020 at 5:02 pm #28

     Also, I am just arguing I think the wealth gap is the real problem and not racism. Not sure what that is spinning you up to call me names and racist.

     And for Bermuda, that link doesn’t answer it all. I don’t even see where it says wealth. Depending on who you believe the black population of the USA, if taken a a country, is either the 15th or 44th most wealthy country in the world.

     Bermuda has a really low single parent rate of 15%. They call that to high, not me. So does that make them racist?
     link to bermudasun.bm

     72% of all black children in America are born to single parents.
     link to en.wikipedia.org.

     As a kid of a single parent for a large portion of my life I can tell you it makes a difference having two parents.

     Sorry to trigger you White Privilege. Just trying to have an honest discussion, I mean no ill will what so ever.

     Reply
   • James

     November 16, 2020 at 7:55 pm #29

     Well said ?

     Reply
2. Slartibartfast

   November 15, 2020 at 8:24 pm #30

   An Update to Tickr mk2 – hooray! I was actually thinking about contacting support due to the problems I’ve been having with my unit. Hopefully now I won’t have to.

   Reply
3. Bikeman

   November 15, 2020 at 8:25 pm #31

   I suggest you stay away from telling others what to do. This isn’t your platform.

   Reply
   • Changren Y.

     November 16, 2020 at 1:34 am #32

     I suggest you stay away from telling what Ray should or should not do. This definitely isn’t your platform.

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 3:39 am #33

     I suspect in this case Bikeman was referring to others telling me what to do, not me telling me what to do on my own platform. :)

     Reply
   • Changren Y.

     November 16, 2020 at 5:59 pm #34

     If that’s the case, apologies to Bikeman.

     Reply
4. Robert Black

   November 16, 2020 at 12:09 am #35

   Was just about to push the button on the tickr, added it to my Amazon wish list one night, slept on it (already got hrm-dual and h10) woke up to order it. And it’s not listed on any Amazon EU countries web site. Not out of stock. I mean you’d never know the product existed

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 4:02 am #36

     Yeah, I don’t entirely understand why stockage has been such an issue. It’s rare that HR straps have stock issues. But then again, I suppose it’s rare to have a pandemic where tons of people are buying HR straps. :-/

     Reply
5. Sam

   November 16, 2020 at 3:15 am #37

   a typo in the garmin 1030 firmware

   Removed new radar > Improved new radar

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 3:37 am #38

     Actually, it has indeed been removed – not improved. They say down the line they’ll improve it, but for now they’re removing it.

     Cheers!

     Reply
6. Sam

   November 16, 2020 at 3:20 am #39

   a note for heaters, this is dc rainmaker blog, he has every rights to say anything he wants on his personal blog, please open your own blog if you want to dictate the editorial tone…

   Reply
   • Big A

     November 16, 2020 at 7:07 am #40

     Brr those damm heaters
     And haters can stay away too?

     Don’t you hate autocorrect..

     Reply
7. Dr. D

   November 16, 2020 at 7:18 am #41

   Ray – Thanks for sharing Ayesha McGowan’s piece. I have followed her evolution closely and admire her grit and determination to make a difference/be a role model.
   For fellow athletes who do not believe that there is no racism in cycling, why don’t you reach out to Ayesha and engage her in respectful dialogue.
   If she (Ayesha) states that racism exists in cycling, it is because she has seen/experienced it. [If it never snows where you are, do you believe it does not snow?]
   Find that person who is different from you and hear their story, look for perspectives.

   Reply
8. Robin White

   November 16, 2020 at 7:37 am #42

   Got to agree with the open letter about the virtual coaches. Garmin knows pretty much everthing I am doing from my wrist yet the vitual coach stuff seems to be a little dumb and as far as I can see have only come up with 9 plans (5k, 10k, 1/2 Marathon x 3 coaches). I was just expecting more. I can’t stretch to anything about a 245 so suggested workout are out for me but some other plans would be good. So near and yet so far.
   Also they *still* haven’t created an e-bike workout yet in Garmin Connect.. How hard can that option be? It’s an option on the edge 1000 but never passes through.

   Reply
9. ReHMn

   November 16, 2020 at 9:29 am #43

   I am not sure, that Garmin users are the best sample for Covid studies, but ok…
   The whole Covid now became a big business, where prevention and treatment go sideways and the only aim is to make money on it.
   The truth behind the numbers is, that any death cause is now claimed as Covid because health insurance companies pay 4times more for the coronery expenses than for any other case.
   yes, that applies to deaths by car accident too…

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     November 16, 2020 at 9:31 am #44

     “I am not sure, that Garmin users are the best sample for Covid studies, but ok…”

     These aren’t ‘Garmin users’ per se, they’re US Navy users, that are being given various Garmin devices.

     Reply
   • Facts Not Fiction

     November 16, 2020 at 2:12 pm #45

     Your statement regarding COVID is false. Only Medicare treats COVID differently than other illnesses.
     To be more specific, Medicare reimbursement rates for COVID treatment are higher than they are for other diseases, but even the increased rate doesn’t cover the cost of care (84 cents on the dollar for COVID instead of 70 cents on the dollar) — and it isn’t even double the rate of reimbursement for other illness, much less four times (it’s a 20% increase (14 cents divided by 70 cents)). Here’s an article laying it all out — if you continue to insist otherwise, please supply a source (to be clear, not a tweet — an actual source): link to denverpost.com

     Reply
   • ReHMn

     November 17, 2020 at 2:31 pm #46

     Maybe in the USA… But in the EU is totally different. I mean everything: the insurance, the capitation, the point/task ratio, the reimbursement.
     Do you want numbers?
     800 EUR bonus paid for the first-line health care workers.
     Hungary is now hiring for the Covid tests health care workers … 3000 EUR/month.
     And this is from an individual standpoint.
     You have no idea how much the institutes (hospitals, laboratories, coroners) claim against the insurance companies…

     Reply
10. Heinrich Hurtz

    November 16, 2020 at 9:59 am #47

    FWIW: Watching that clip of the guy totaling his bike, I put it mostly on him. Sure the car did a weird thing, but he should have been riding more defensively. He had plenty of time to slow before the car turned, and judging from the clip, he should have use WAY MORE FRONT BRAKE rather than just locking the rear.

    Reply
    • Ray Maker

      November 16, 2020 at 10:04 am #48

      It looks like a pretty steep hill though, and you can see it’s slowing down as the car comes out of the spot, and I think if the car hadn’t done the U-turn, all would have been well. After all, the U-turn was illegal.

      Given the downhill grade and the speed, there’s a super fine line between applying just enough front brake and endo’ing.

      Reply
    • SF rider

      November 16, 2020 at 3:51 pm #49

      As an SF biker, I can confirm that Woodside Avenue is a reasonably steep hill and a major N/S thoroughfare with a 35 mph speed limit. It’s literally a pass through the hills of SF (Twin Peaks and Mt. Davidson). SF has steep hills. The driver did a U-turn over an ISLAND (two sets of parrallel double yellow lines seperated by 1 meter with large diagonal yellow lines between). The rider was coming off a curve and through an intersection with a light. He didn’t have much time to see the car and the driver was an idiot. If the driver hadn’t pulled an absolutely illegal U-turn from the right lane without looking for traffic, the biker would have been fine.
      You should never blame the victim.

      Reply
11. Harriet

    November 16, 2020 at 11:07 am #50

    Fascinated to see how Garmin’s pregnancy tracking goes. Not sure what the Girl’s experience was but I found myself essentially unable to train in the first trimester (not helped by pools/lidos being shut here in the UK and feeling that ow in the Thames in winter in pregnancy won’t be ideal). I’m slowly, slowly, slowly starting to get a few running miles in the legs again and will get back on the turbo shortly.

    Garmin also added menstrual tracking at a recent update- I obviously haven’t been able to use it but these are awesome strides for female athletes and feed through into coaches finally taking periods seriously as a training enhancer/disruptor. There is surely a lot of scope to build on this work but it’s good that it is starting.

    Reply
12. Andre

    November 16, 2020 at 3:46 pm #51

    I don’t know if it is available on all countries, but on france, decathlon has the 735xt at 159eur
    link to decathlon.fr

    Reply
13. Adam

    November 16, 2020 at 5:52 pm #52

    You said it Ray “I get to choose my own lanes here…because it’s my own pool. If you don’t like my lanes, or my pool – you’re welcome to find your own pool somewhere else.”

    Keep sharing articles like the one by Ayesha Rosena Anna McGowan, because there is so much discrimination in the sporting world. It just seems that those not negatively affected can’t (or won’t) see it.

    Reply
14. James

    November 16, 2020 at 7:58 pm #53

    Well said ? Ray

    Reply
15. Patrick

    November 16, 2020 at 9:16 pm #54

    Thank you for sharing this article and shinning light on the challenges of being a black person wanting to simply enjoy our sport.

    Reply
16. Travis Thompson

    November 18, 2020 at 8:08 pm #55

    Hi Ray
    I love your work. Just wondering if you have been able to get your hands on or any info about the Amazon Halo fitness tracker. Would love to see a review from you I know its pretty new I dont think we can access it here in Australia yet but keen to learn more about it as its ongoing membership is much more reasonable than the Whoop ongoing costs.
    Cheers Travis Thompson

    Reply
17. Nicholas Favill

    November 19, 2020 at 5:25 am #56

    Why did wahoo call this a rival when it isn’t, that was bold and when someone shows a rival ownerv a fenix 5s plus that is like 2 years old and is more functional than this, and smaller, I’d say this is a big misstep. Do people buy products that are released too early, seems like wahoo will struggle to recoup capital to pay for the updates that are sorely needed.

    Reply