It’s been exactly three months (plus a day) since Garmin announced their latest power meter, Vector 3. With that unit they introduced a slew of both technology features and non-technology new aspects. From a physical standpoint they got rid of the dangling pods off the side of the unit; everything is now internal. They also went away from a 3rd party manufactured pedal, and built the whole thing from the ground up in-house. From a technology standpoint, they increased accuracy claims to +/- 1% while also adding in Bluetooth Smart transmission (*soon), and settings configuration with your mobile phone.
The real question is – when it came to real-world usage out on the road, how would it fare? For that, I’ve done a boatload of riding. Four months of it in fact, well before Vector 3 even was announced. I’ve iterated through three sets of pedals: Two pre-production sets, and then the last two months a final production set. Vector 3 started shipping back on October 14th, 2017 at the Kona Ironman World Championships. While production was behind schedule and at lesser volumes than Garmin had hoped, many people have seen in the last few days a significant increase in units landing in stores (finally).
Speaking of which, as always, I’ll be shipping back the two remaining test units I have of Vector 3 shortly and going out and getting my own via normal retail channels. Just like always. If you wanna help support the blog, hit up the links at the bottom.
With that – let’s get cookin’!
Unboxing:
First things first is to get things unboxed. In this case I’ll be doing an unboxing of the Vector 3 dual-sending set (as opposed to the Vector 3S single-sided pedal). I’ve put together a complete unboxing video that runs through all the bits in the box, plus some installation tidbits and a brief look at Garmin Cycling Dynamics:
Want all that in non-video format instead? No problem, here ya go!
More importantly than the exterior, you’ll crack open the box and find the pedal sittin’ there looking up at ya:
Note that if you bought a Vector 3S unit, you’ll still get two pedals. It’s just that one of those pedals won’t have any sensors/electronics in it. The left pedal will have sensors, and the right pedal will be a blank. The left power will simply be doubled to produce total power (identical to how other left-only products, like Stages Power, work).
While the pedals are fully self-contained, underneath are some additional parts you may use:
These include optional washers (if the pedal pokes through too far), as well as cleats. These are standard Look Keo compatible cleats, so if you already have such cleats, you don’t have to switch. But everyone likes new clean cleats, right?
There’s also the cleat mounting hardware in there as well, to attach the cleats to your shoes.
Then there’s, of course, the pedals themselves. But fear not, you’re going to get so many photos of the pedals by the end of this post you’re going to be…umm…a peddler.
And finally, you’ve got the paper quick-start guide. While short, it does a good job of covering everything you’d probably need to know in a concise manner.
To briefly bulletize all the things that are new in Vector 3 compared to Vector 1/2, I put together this list of sorts. I cover most of these in more depth throughout the review, so this fits in this section more as a prelude than anything else:
–No longer using Exustar pedals: Instead, they internally developed the pedal. The Vector team said that while Exustar served them well, their goal with the pedal body “aimed to be considered like Shimano & Look”. You can see the new pedal just looks really clean now – and I’d say that at least from a looks standpoint they achieved that (it’ll likely take me a year or so to find out if that’s true from a durability perspective).
– Contains Bluetooth Smart: This is used both for firmware updates, as well as connectivity to head units using Bluetooth Smart (i.e. to a Polar or Suunto watch, or Zwift on iOS, or similar).
– Elimination of pods also eliminated SKU’s: If you didn’t buy Vector you may not know there were actually multiple Vector SKU’s, based on pod sizes. This, in turn, meant bike shops had to stock these multiple SKU’s and try and figure out who might buy what size. Vector 3 eliminates that, there’s only one SKU.
– Decreased weight: The unit now weighs 162g, versus the previous 179g.
– Changed bearing type: Previously they were bronze bearings inside, now they’re needle bearings.
– Totally different spindle body: Simply put, it’s all different both inside and out. Much of this, of course, is the result of changing everything else within the pedal, like the bearings.
– Increased rider weight: The certified weight is 105KG (231 lbs) for rider weight, previously it was 90KG (198 lbs). That may not sound like a lot, but that’s actually a fair bit different.
– Update pedals via phone or Edge: Previously you had to use the desktop or Edge device to update your firmware. Now you can use the Garmin Connect Mobile app to update Vector 3 firmware. That’s due to inclusion of Bluetooth Smart.
– Slight increase in spacer size: I think Garmin learned that people put too few spacers on, so you’ll notice the Vector 3 ones are a hair bit thicker so that if someone only puts one on, it’s still safe. Though, at the same time, spacers are no longer required.
– Slight decrease in battery life: Previously it was 150 hours on Vector 1/2, however with Vector 3 it’s roughly in the 120 hour range with Cycling Dynamics and Bluetooth Smart enabled. If you don’t use a Cycling Dynamics capable head unit (it’s smart enough to know that now), it’ll get you closer to 150 hours again with just normal bike power.
With that, let’s see how these compare in size to other options on the market.
Size & Weight Comparisons:
Let’s start with all the weights of comparable units. This includes the following line-up:
– Garmin Vector 3
– PowerTap P1
– Favero Assioma
There’s no real reason to belabor this point in text, here’s the weights of each pedal, and then the total set of pedals.
For each one, I excluded spacers, since not all cranks/pedals require that. For fun, here’s the weights of the spacers. I just weighed one spacer from each, but obviously you need either one or two per pedal, again, depending on your cranks.
Next, here’s how they look side by side. First, front on:
Next, spindle-side:
Then the other side:
And finally, the rear:
To state the obvious, the Vector 3 is the slimmest of the bunch from a sizing standpoint, and the P1 the chunkiest. The photos otherwise kinda speak for themselves.
With all of our sizing goodness out of the way, it’s time to install and start using the darn things.
General Use Overview:
We’ll start out with getting them installed on my bike, which is virtually identical to installing any other pedal. In general though, there are two ways you can install pedals (depending on type):
A) Using a pedal wrench, which wraps around the pedal axle
B) Using an Allen (hex) wrench, which sticks into the end of the axle
Alternatively, you can just spin it on with your hands/fingers most of the way. But you’ll want a wrench to really tighten it up. It doesn’t need to be gorilla tight, just normal tight.
In any event, with Vector 3, you have to use ‘Option A’ above, since the end of the pedal has the LED status lights on it, so you can’t stick a hex wrench in there.
In the case of Vector 3, I use my hands/fingers to get it most of the way in the crank arm, and then a quick twist of a pedal wrench to finish the job:
Note, while I have the large pedal wrenches like seen above that are more common, I also bought this tiny little travel bike tool which includes a mini pedal wrench. It’s not the best pedal wrench on earth due to its size (in terms of leverage), but it’s great if you want something small for travel:
You’ll repeat installation for both sides. Unlike past Garmin Vector pedals, there is no requirement to use a torque wrench, nor are any specific torque specifications required. I’ve simply tightened it to what felt fine, and my accuracy numbers have been spot on every time. Speaking of which, unlike previous generations of pedals, there’s no need to do multiple rides to ‘settle’ the unit. I find doing a simple 4-8 second long sprint once or twice will ensure it’s nice and snug – same as most other pedal power meters.
So what about those washers/spacers that came with it? Unlike in the past, you don’t need to install those. However, you want to install them in two scenarios:
A) If the pedal rubs up against your crank arm
B) If the pedal spindle goes through too far and clips the chain
The spacers simply push things out. Again, most pedal based power meters have them for the same reasons as Vector (those two listed above).
While installing the pedals you’ll likely have noticed the little lights on the inside of the pedals:
These are status indicators, which let you know what’s going on. These are most useful not just for ensuring the batteries are working, but also during firmware updates. From a handy list on the Garmin Forums, here’s what the lights mean:
3 Green Blinks: Cannot find other pedal – battery good
1 Red Blinks: Battery low
Long series of alternating red/green blinks: File transfer during firmware update – could be from the display unit to the left pedal. This will also be seen on both pedals at the same time when the left pedal is sending the update to the right pedal
20 Green Blinks: File transfer/Firmware update successful
20 Red Blinks: File transfer/Firmware update failed
That same list also details all of the Garmin Vector 3 error codes that can be generated too.
On the flipside of each pedal is the battery compartment. In the case of Vector 3, the company is using LR44 batteries.
Each pedal uses two of these batteries, which are placed in a little pod holder which slides into the pedal, sorta like peas in a pod:
As for using LR44 versus SR44 batteries, that’s a good question which many readers asked since launch. I went back to Garmin on this after your questions and asked what was the difference, specifically, in their recommendation of using LR44 versus SR44 batteries. They said they started to validate both LR44 and SR44 cells, but found “much more consistent performance” with the LR44’s than the SR44’s. They noted that “in the validation, we found overall that the SR44’s had higher variability and some even performed worse than the LR’s”. Interestingly, as part of that testing they did find that SR44 was giving longer battery life, but that given the variability they saw they settled on LR44’s as the official recommendation, coming in at 120 hours (on LR44’s).
Next, cleats. It comes with Look Keo compatible cleats as noted, so you’re pretty much set there. One thing that’s worthwhile pointing out is that both competitors Favero Assioma/bePro and the PowerTap P1 use slightly unique cleats that are a Look Keo variant. This means that in theory they aren’t fully compatible with Look Keo stuff. In practice, it varies. I find they are compatible when they’re new – but that over time (wearing out), they become less compatible and you pop out more. None of this affects Vector, but a lot of people ask about it, so I figured I’d mention it. Similarly, the lack of precise compatibility doesn’t matter too much if you only have a single set of shoes…or if you just buy an extra set of cleats – they’re cheap. Don’t let that be a hindrance to what you decide to buy (I’ve used P1’s for years with the non-conforming cleats without issues), but just be aware of it.
Now that everything is installed (which btw, should only have taken about 30-60 seconds), you’re ready to pair it to your bike computer. I’m going to use a Garmin unit here for purposes of demonstration, but it works with any ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart unit, or app. I cover which other units I’ve tested a bit later.
To start you’ll pair with your bike computer by searching for a power meter. Vector 3 broadcasts as both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart (BLE). In almost every scenario, most vendors will recommend using ANT+ first for power meters, unless you see issues there (primarily due to some standard quirks between companies on the BLE power meter spec). By default, Garmin will search for ANT+ first anyway.
You’ll see the ANT+ ID listed on the head unit. That ID won’t match what’s etched on the side of the pedals, as with Vector 3 each pedal has its own unique ID. Note that you can actually ‘de-pair’ a dual Vector 3 set into a Vector 3S and then…a secondary useless pedal. By that, I meant that you cannot take a full Vector 3 set and put one pedal on one bike, and another pedal on another bike. The left pedal is considered master and thus required. In a Vector 3S kit, you’ll get the left pedal with sensors in it, and then an empty right pedal to match.
Once you’ve paired the pedal, you can go ahead and rename it as you see fit:
Additionally, and this is really important, you need to set your crank length. This is listed on the inside of your crank arm, and if you’re not sure, look for something like 172.5mm or similar. In my case, it’s 175.0mm (but the default in the industry is shipping with 172.5mm cranks).
And then finally, you’ll want to do a zero offset, which is a variant of doing a calibration. As a general rule I do this prior to each ride to ensure there’s no quirks.
Note that unlike previous Vector units, you can turn off auto zero if you’d like to. This can be done both on the head unit, as well as the mobile app. And as with previous Vector units, you can hang weights on them to do a static check if you’d like, as it’ll show you the torque value above.
Speaking of the mobile app, if you use Garmin Connect Mobile (Garmin’s mobile app), you can pair up Vector 3 there as well:
This allows you to configure settings on the pedal and update the firmware:
Additionally, if you have a recent Garmin Edge unit (1030/1000/820/520), it’ll also download updates for Garmin Vector and update the firmware when required. Note that updating the firmware takes about 4-8 minutes, so it’s best not to do that sitting outside on a cold winter day. Just defer the update till after the ride while you’re taking a shower or something.
Speaking of riding, let’s talk about what you’ll get while riding. Of course you’ll get the basics like total power, as well as cadence. And you’ll get other ANT+ standardized metrics like torque effectiveness and pedal smoothness. These metrics are shown on pretty much any head unit/watch that supports power meters by pretty much any vendor.
But then you’ll get the Garmin Cycling Dynamics metrics as well. These include things like platform center offset, seated time, standing time, and power phase. These advanced metrics are shown live on Garmin Edge devices, and then on Garmin Forerunner devices you’ll get these metrics afterwards.
Up until a few months ago, these Cycling Dynamics were only available on Garmin devices. However, back in September Garmin started opening things up. First, it was TrainerRoad to get the new Cycling Dynamics metrics:
And then they followed that up a few weeks later with opening up things to the ANT+ power meter working group, enabling any vendor to implement cycling dynamics into their products. Nobody has done so yet, but it’s still early. Read my full post on that to understand what that’ll take.
In addition to real-time display of these metrics, you’ll also get the metrics recorded for review on Garmin Connect later. Here’s what a sample ride looks like (you can click here to view the full activity and dork around with it):
Note that some 3rd party apps like WKO4 also support displaying these metrics as well as SportTracks.
To summarize all of the protocols and standards that Garmin transmits upon, I’ve put together this quick list;
ANT+ Power (total)
ANT+ Power Balance (left/right)
ANT+ Cadence
ANT+ Pedal Smoothness
ANT+ Torque Effectiveness
Bluetooth Smart Power
Bluetooth Smart Power Balance
Bluetooth Smart Cadence
Garmin Cycling Dynamics (currently private-ANT)
One uniquely interesting tidbit on Garmin’s Bluetooth Smart implementation is that it appears to apps as a single unit. That’s logical you say, isn’t that the norm? Actually, no, it’s not. Most other power meter pedals that also transmit on Bluetooth Smart show up as both a left and a right unit. Some bike computers and apps are smart enough to merge this data together, but most don’t. Instead, they only permit you to connect to one side or the other (meaning you wasted your money on a dual system). Note, this doesn’t impact ANT+. Update: You can read all about the Vector 3 Bluetooth Smart update here in my separate post.
In Garmin’s case though, when you use an app or device to connect to the Bluetooth Smart side, you see a single all-encompassing Vector 3 unit. Take for example Zwift below (again, just on Bluetooth Smart, in this case on an iPad).
If using Vector 3, I get both pedals’ data. Whereas with the PowerTap P1 or Favero Assioma, I get both the left and right pedals shown. That means with those systems I can only connect to either the left or right side, but not both sides. And again, if you connect over ANT+ to those pedals, this isn’t an issue.
Finally, wrapping things in the general use section up, what about less technical things? Stuff like clipping in or float? All that feels good and natural to me. I’m not a huge pedal/component junkie (I’m a tech guy), but everything feels perfectly fine to me. Additionally, since Vector’s been shipping almost two months now, I haven’t seen any complaints from anyone in this area. I also haven’t seen any issues with wear/tear on the pedals in the four months I’ve been using them. They’ve held up quite well, despite me treating them pretty harshly.
Update – March 2018: Some users are reporting issues with the battery holder mechanism, which results in dropouts during a ride (and sometimes spikes). It can also result in high battery burn (less than the stated results). This is seemingly mostly due to lack of contact between the battery and the connector, likely due to differing batteries having a variance of +/- .2mm. Garmin says they’re working on it, and they’ve started shipping out new battery pods to some customers. While the Garmin Forums and even the comments section below would make it seem like everyone is impacted, I don’t think that’s really the case. I think it’s starting to come up more often as people hit the end of their first set of batteries. Garmin says it’s a small number of customers, and in looking at the sell-through rates I see, I think we’d see far more comments in both locations if it was actually a massive widespread problem. Just my two-cents.
Update – April 2018: See this big-ass long comment I wrote down in the comments section after a multi-hour meeting with Garmin on the issues some folks have seen with Vector 3.
Update – May 2018:Garmin has begun production of new battery pod/caps, which will be sent to all registered Vector 3 users. Non-registered users can also request them via support. Currently it sounds like these should all go out by the end of May. Garmin states this will resolve virtually all outstanding issues with respect to drops and connectivity. Of course, ultimately it’s just going to take time (such as June or July) to know whether that ends up being the case.
Update – June 1st, 2018: Garmin began shipping the new battery caps the last week of May, and people have begun to receive them. Garmin is sending the new caps to all users. Additionally, on May 31st they released a new firmware version. It’s too soon to know whether or not this fixes things for good. I suspect by the end of June we should have a much clearer picture of stuff. Fwiw, my Vector units from normal retail back in December are still fine – I just swapped the batteries again about two weeks ago.
Power Meter Accuracy Results:
I’ve long said that if your power meter isn’t accurate, then there’s no point in spending money on one. Strava can give you estimated power that’s ‘close enough’ for free, so if you’re gonna spend money on something it shouldn’t be a random number generator. Yet there are certain scenarios/products where a power meter may be less accurate than others, or perhaps it’s got known edge cases that don’t work. Neither product type is bad – but you just need to know what those use/edge cases are and whether it fits your budget or requirements.
As always, I set out to find that out. In power meters today one of the biggest challenges is outdoor conditions. Generally speaking, indoor conditions are pretty easy to handle, but I still start there nonetheless. It allows me to dig into areas like low and high cadence, as well as just how clean numbers are at steady-state power outputs. Whereas outdoors allows me to look into water ingest concerns, temperature and humidity variations, and the all-important road surface aspects (I.e. vibrations). For reference, the Garmin Vector 3 pedals have a claimed accuracy rate of +/- 1%. It also does not require any magnets for cadence, while also automatically correcting for any temperature drift. Both of these are pretty common though on most power meters these days.
In my testing, I generally use between 2-4 other power meters on the bike at once. I find this is the best way to validate power meters in real-world conditions. In the case of most of these tests with the Vector 3 I was using the following other units on four different test bikes equipped at varying times with the following diversity of units:
4iiii Precision Dual power meter
Elite Direto Trainer
FSA PowerBox
Power2Max NG
Power2Max NG ECO
PowerTap G3 hub based power meter (two different units)
Stages Left-Only Power Meter (LR soon!)
Wahoo KICKR SNAP 2017/V2 Trainer
Wahoo KICKR 2017/V3 Trainer
Wattbike Atom Indoor Bike
Given I tested these over the course of four months, I was using a lot of different gear.
In general, my use of other products is most often tied to other things I’m testing. Also, when it comes to data collection, I use a blend of the NPE WASP data collection devices, and a fleet of Garmin head units (mostly Edge 520/820/1000/1030 units). For the vast majority of tests on the Garmin Vector 3 I just used the Garmin Edge 1030, and a FR935 watch. But I also recorded on apps as well, including TrainerRoad and Zwift.
Note all of the data can be found in the links next to each review. Also, at the end is a short table with the data used in this review. I’ll likely add in other data not in this review as well.
With that, let’s get right into it and start with analyzing an indoor trainer ride from earlier this week, in this case a workout on Zwift. Note that this particular workout also had a PowerTap PowerCal on it (non-direct force power meter), but I’m going to skip it for these charts. This was a structured workout (Jon’s Mix, long-form variant). Here’s the DCR Analyzer file set if you want to dig yourself:
What we’ve got on this one is Vector 3 vs a Power2Max NG ECO vs the Wahoo KICKR3/2017. As you can see, all three units are very close in comparison across everything (save one brief second where the NG Eco lost contact momentarily with the head unit recording it). You do though see that the KICKR3 undercuts power slightly on the 30-second intervals for reasons I’m not super clear on.
The Power2Max NG ECO and Vector 3 are very close. Note that some of the KICKR’s undercutting can be blamed on drivetrain efficiency losses (or rather, lack of drivetrain efficiency), which is typically in the 5-12w range. Though this is a tiny bit more than that at 10-20w on 450w.
If we look at the steady-state sections, we actually see a slight flip between the P2M and KICKR3 in terms of who is highest/lowest between them. The Vector 3 remains highest (as expected in the proper order of loses). Note that despite how big that gap may look in the chart below, in reality if you look at the numbers we’re only talking 4-6w difference here, which is really darn close. That’s above the margin of error for the accuracy of the two units combined.
For the most part the above is somewhat of a boringly clean set, so let’s shift gears to another ride…which is also boringly clean. In the below ride, I’m using the Wattbike, and as such since I can’t swap out the cranks I can really only have two power meters (versus the 3-4 I prefer). Still, I thought I’d include it just because it looks so darn perfect. In fact, you probably can’t even tell there’s two power meters there:
Save a few very tiny variances, they match up almost perfectly. Up above you see around the 27-minute marker a tiny blip on Vector that Wattbike doesn’t follow. That’s where I specifically applied extra pressure on Vector 3 that the Wattbike didn’t seem to catch (too short perhaps, only a second or so).
And then below, inversely, you can see on the 3rd interval I seemed to undercut it slightly, and the Wattbike appears to carry the momentum of the flywheel through that couple second sprint, when in actuality I probably didn’t – thus matching Vector 3. But when I didn’t cut things short, the units are near perfectly matched – far more than I usually see actually.
And again, if we look at another portion later in the workout with more repetitive intervals, it’s all the same – boringly clean.
So let’s head outside for a moment. This couple hour ride includes everything from city streets to cobbles to off-road riding on it. Below I’m first showing it smoothed at 5-second intervals, but then I’ll re-smooth it again to make it easier to spot any issues. You can dig into the full set here.
Here’s everything smoothed at 30-second intervals. You can see that over the course of the entire ride, there’s virtually no moments where the three units differ in any manner. Almost the entire time they are within a couple watts of each other, with the PowerTap G3 being the lowest (as it should be).
Within that, if I back down the smoothing factor a bit in the graphs, I want to look at one sprint. This is still smoothed slightly, thus the peak is actually higher than this. But I find when comparing power meters, about a 2-3s smoothing factor for sprints helps to make it clear what’s going on.
In this case, the sprint is a touch over 800w. We see the Vector 3 and P2M units very close – 6w difference on 800w (thus 0.7% apart), and the PowerTap G3 seems to shoot slightly higher. Of course, anytime you’re talking max sprint power, it’s incredibly difficult to get units to match due to the differing transmission rates and then corresponding recording rates. So you end up with situations like this were sub-second maxes just get averaged out to a single second, and you get slight differences.
Still, you see the overall trend on this 800w sprint, and then the following 600w efforts is very close.
And if we look at cadence on this ride, all three are nearly identical. Only a handful of times the PowerTap G3 hub gets flustered with its estimated cadence (typically when you quickly back off a sprint). But this is well known.
Now, let’s look at another set – another outside ride. This has some totally funky stuff in it that’s 100% unrelated to Vector 3, but I figured I’d use it briefly to show some data comparisons. In short, you see how halfway through the Power2Max NG sees drops? Something started on the most recent Edge 520 firmware with the NG ECO causing this precisely every 60 seconds for 1-2 seconds. I hadn’t analyzed this set till later, so didn’t catch it initially since it happens so quick.
So instead, let’s just look at the first 45 minutes where the units are all happy.
You can see here that things are really darn close. If we zoom in on that sprint again, we’ll see very close alignment as well:
As always, once you start talking few second long sprints, you get slight variances at the peak, but throughout this sprint things are very close between the units.
And then again here later in that ride on another 800w sprint:
Ultimately I’m not seeing any issues with Vector 3 from an accuracy standpoint. I’ve ridden across messy cobblestones, as well as rougher dirt roads – none of which have proven to be an issue. Same goes for indoor riding, as well as both low and high cadence work. All of it seems very solid to me.
Here’s the full table of rides since the unit started shipping (I’ve skipped including rides from previous to shipping – such as August and September), since they were on beta firmware. Though, by and large, I saw very few accuracy issues in beta hardware/software, especially once I got into September and the issues evaporated with software updates.
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)
Power Meter Pedals Shoot-Out:
Earlier this fall I did a complete power meter pedal shootout. So if you can’t decide which power meter pedal is best for you, then it’s definitely something you should check out.
There are pros and cons to each of the pedal platforms, be it price, compatibility, or sensor aspects. I did it with a mind-boggling number of those aspects, including:
But what if you’re not sure you want a pedal based power meter? That’s great – there’s tons of options out there, and pedal based units are just one option (and often one of the most expensive options). So you should check out my full 2017 Annual Power Meter Buyer Guide, which walks through every power meter on the market, and the pros and cons to each one. It’s massive!
[Update: Please be sure you read my comments above about some of the battery issues some portion of people are having. These are located just before the start of the ‘Accuracy’ section.]
It’s easy to say that Vector 3 is Garmin’s best power meter yet. That’s true, but that’s also a cliché cop-out.
It’s more important instead to understand that in being their best power meter yet, they finally arrived at many of the original promises and goals of Garmin acquiree Metrigear’s founding ideas more than 8 years ago. The goal was an easily transportable/moveable and accurate pedal power meter. Up until now, there were always caveats with each of those aspects on Vector. It was accurate, but only if you did X and Y. And it was moveable, but again, only with A and B. And it was compatible, but only with P and Q. And it was supported on R cranks, but only with Z SKU. Thus, it was full of ‘but only if/with’ statements.
When I first sat down to listen to Garmin’s pitch on Vector 3, they started with the common marketing sentence of ‘We wanted to address all of the past complaints’. Mentally I rolled my eyes at the polite Canadian driven team. But after four months of using them, it’s actually clear they did exactly that. And your (reader) comments on them checking off all the other requirements boxes are clear too. They went dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart, and even opened up Cycling Dynamics to be an open standard. They removed all those ‘but only if’ statements with past Vector products and ended up with a clean and sleek power meter pedal that’s easily moveable between bikes, and is accurate as well. Full stop, no more buts.
Third time’s the charm.
With that – thanks for reading!
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Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
Hi Ray. I couldn’t find a definitive answer on the decrease in pedal stack heights V2 compared to V3 being ‘slightly’ lower. Do you have any insight on that one?
Vector (all variants) doesn’t account for non-round rings. There’s a Garmin Forum posts that have done the math to show roughly what the inaccuracy would be at various cadences.
Have never posted here before (though always enjoy reading), but I think many folks must have the same question as me, so I’ll ask it: is there any reason to get these over the much less expensive Assiomas? So far I see differences in the appearances of the pedals (subjective), battery mechanism (subjective), and Cycling Dynamics (subjective re: usefulness). I’ve got no horse in the race, but bypassed the recent BF deals on the Assiomas because I wanted to learn more about the Vectors before choosing (first PM purchase for me). (Would love DCR’s thoughts on this–may be wrong, but I sense diplomacy because the differences seem so subtle and a matter of personal preference–as well as others’.)
And that’s honestly all it comes down to. Some don’t like the look of Assiomas, and some prefer varying battery technologies. The one minor one is the whole Zwift connectivity issue over BLE, which some Assioma buyers have been upset about (ANT+ is fine). But again, minor depending on your specific configuration.
But again – really just the differences you’ve outlined for the most part (aside from some varying tiny minor tech/sizing differences outlined in detail in the other post).
Thanks for the response. It’d be easier if there was a clear and compelling difference. I was hoping you might say that there was an obvious winner on build quality (though figured that assessment would take a year+) or that cycling dynamics had proved its worth as a training tool. But my sense is that it’s now a question of whether the slightly cleaner look of the Vectors is worth several hundred $$$ (we all put a lot of stock into the look of our bikes, so I guess it’s an honest choice).
IMHO this is rather a major issue with BLE and Strava+Zwift. I use my iPhone right on the bike and I see no point in using ANT when BLE is available.
I think it was an important design decision for Garmin to make the pedals appear as one BT device and to strive for the official BT certificate. Another positive point is the auto calibration. All settings seem to be available from the Garmin app (no need for a separate head unit). This is all well-considered by Garmin.
Looks or battery life are minor in my opinion. I really wanted to buy the Assiomas because of the price, but the unsolved BLE issues are a show-stopper for me. It will be the Vectors now, as soon as they are in stock.
Hi Chris,
Does the Phone is showing the power vaules live? Garmin Connect App?
I will use the pedals on my indoor trainer without a separate head unit. The power and U/min should be showed right away on my phone(Android).
On the “hands on” post/blog, there was quite a few people asking about upgrade/trade-in deals for existing V1 and V2 customers. Have you heard anything since? (guess you would have mentioned it) Could you poke Garmin for us??
I’m very close to the weight limit for the old Vectors, and if I got any decent amount of riding done, I’d trash at least one set of Vectors each season. On my 3rd or 4th set now. Not sure if it’s my fat legs or the wet and salty environment here in Denmark. But I’m not a happy Vector owner at all…
PS. Small typo: …you can turn off auto zero if you’d like to. This can be __down__ both on the head unit, as well as the mobile app.
Assume down=done?
No, I’m not aware of any trade-in deals at all (or talks of them). To be fair, Garmin has largely phased out such offers as a company in general (as have most tech companies these days I suppose). In the case of Vector 1 to 2, it was technically a simpler problem to solve. Whereas things are substantially different from a hardware standpoint in V3.
I have an issue where I tend to destroy the clip-but that is at the back of the pedal, specifically the part that clips in to the back of the cleat. It’s not clear to me why this happens – maybe I need to clean my cleats off more often? – but it happens pretty frequently. e.g. I just destroyed a set of pedals in about 7000 kilometers. So my question is, is this part servicable / replacable on these pedals?
Mine were delivered today but a bit disappointed the crows foot was no longer included. I had a set of Vector 2 pedals so I went out and bought a torque wrench to swap out as needed… Now I’m the other way around, have a torque wrench but no crows foot to install or swap… Staring at my pedals until I get a chance to stop by the LBS should be as fun as riding them.
Magnus had an old set of Vector 2 pedals. Those required a torque wrench, and in particular, a crows foot adapter for said torque wrench. Garmin initially didn’t include those in the box, but eventually did. All of which allowed for proper installation of the pedals, but was well beyond what you’d need to normally install pedals.
With Vector 3 you simply need a normal pedal wrench, which are widely and easily available (and what you’d need for many other pedals too). Magnus is simply noting that now he has an overkill tool of little use, versus the cheap and easily found tool.
Hmm, I received a reply from Garmin support saying that Vector 3’s still require specific torque and they sent me the link to the torque wrench and crow’s foot tool links. Maybe support hasn’t gotten the memo? The user guide also says to tighten to a specific torque.
I’ve got a pair of Vector 3 on pre order but I just can’t decide if I prefer the Assioma instead. Regarding durability, which ones do you think are the most durable? It does happen that pedals take a little beating, and it seems as though Favero’s design with the electronics being away from the pedal body would make them safer than the Vectors, where an impact would hit the electronics directly. What’s your take on that? There’s also the possibility to change the pedal body on the Favero’s where as I guess that the Vector’s electronics are so integrated that it is not possible on them, do you know?
I’d actually argue the inverse – that Favero’s pod-design makes it more susceptible to damage, because the pods have a point that could also get damaged, versus being protected inside the pedal.
But ultimately, I’ve really seen no evidence of either design being a concern (either with Assioma or their previous generation bePro). With Vector 3 there will be service kits made available.
Speaking of service kit – fun fact I didn’t mention in the review: Vector 3 is designed so that all the electronics are in the spindle, enabling them to more easily consider other pedal body types down the road…
Hi Ray,
Is there anything thing that the Vector 3 will not push to the BOLT? In other words, is there an advantage to pairing the Vector 3 to the 520 or other Garmin computer rather then parking w/ my BOLT ? Thank you.
At this point in time, by reading Ray’s well researched reviews, the only thing you won’t get when using Vector 3 with a WAhoo Bolt is Garmin’s cycling dynamics information on the Bolt. Probably not a deal breaker for many people but worth a note. There is hope that Wahoo may implement cycling dynamics in the future now that garmin has opened them up for industry adoption (but that’s not a guarantee). At this time though, the advantage of using a Garmin 520 or similar from Garmin is the support for cycling dynamics.
I didn’t run Vector 3 with the BOLT to my knowledge on any of my more formal tests, so if there’s any unexpected quirks, I wouldn’t have caught them. I may have paired to it here or there on a ride, but can’t remember specifically.
I’ll probably try some Polar/Suunto via BLE units in the near future and add them in. With Polar you’ll get more detailed information on power meters than Suunto.
That’s the key difference though with Vector 3 compared to Assioma and PowerTap P1: It shows as a single channel (with both sides within it). It’s not just doubling like the others. Thus, it’ll actually work even better for Suunto which only accepts single channel.
If you compare Vector 3 with prior versions, they look like beta products.
I like the elimination of pods and now you don’t need a torque wrench. I’d prefer to use an allen wrench, but it’s not a big deal. LR44 batteries are not as standard as AAA from powertap, but they last longer.
At last, pedal power meter are easily transportable/movable, but they are more exposed to falls and hits. It isn’t the best option for durability.
What’s the reason that there isn’t Shimano compatible pedal power meter on the market? I prefer Shimano cleats because they has a larger platform and are more durable than Look Keo ones.
Considering that I can easily find places that sell LR44 batteries for about 20 cents a pop, whereas the cheapest option I can find for SR44 is around 90 cents a pop (both AUD), I’d say it’s a good thing that Garmin have validated the LR44; I find it difficult to believe that the SR44 would last about five times longer than the alkaline option. If only I could bring myself to justify the upgrade from the Vector 2 … (sigh.)
Ray, appreciate you asking Garmin about the SR44/LR44. Remain curious why the LR is more consistent… but I’m sure I can figure out a way to get over that. 🙂
I’m a Garmin dealer and in speaking with them today regarding batteries they advised that the SR is the preferred battery. I wonder if something has changed in the past few days. I originally asked because Alkaline batteries (LR) leak while Silver Oxide (SR) don’t…and inside your $1000 pedals is not a good place for leaking batteries and I wanted to get their take as to preference between the two.
…but expect it to be longer, as the specs would indicate.
“SR44 batteries have not been tested for battery life however are expected to last longer that LR44 batteries.”
All interesting. I doubt it matters much, honestly. I’ve not seen issues with charged LR batteries leaking in storage. And the battery life is solid either way.
But then again I probably didn’t need to know my PCO is different between my left and right feet either..
I’m considering your statement ‘…nor are any specific torque specifications required.’
Still, I DO see they’re recommending “25 lbf-ft or 34 N-m” on their quick-start guide (please, see picture #4 – link to media.dcrainmaker.com ).
All this reminds me of the old Vector 1 installing recommendations ( link to youtu.be ).
‘…hand tighten those [pedals]. Achieve a nice firm tightening of the pedal, but not over tighten. Pedals don’t need to be over tightened. And if you’d like to use a torque wrench to achieve that exact 25 lbf-ft or 34 N-m, _by all means_ do so…’
And we all know that a torque wrench was mandatory for a successfully installation of Vector 1 pedals.
I must say it won’t bother me as I already have such a torque wrench (I bought it a few months after Vectors 1 had arrived).
I just thought it would have been worth to point it out.
Yeah, I can say that they left it in there more as general guidance than anything else. In reality, there’s no reason for it, and they’ll more or less admit to the same thing when asked in a non-official capacity.
Terrific review. I’m still running my perfectly functional Edge 510, but have been shopping around for a power meter. Despite only the newer generation head units being listed as “compatible” with the Vector 3/3S’s, do you think I’d still be able to display power/cadence on that (minus all the cycling dynamics data)? There wasn’t much that I found on the Garmin forums.
They aren’t going to take a standard that has been in use since the original Vector and throw it out the window. Given that the original Vector transmitted cadence as well as power, and is listed as compatible with the Edge 510, I’m going to bet a significant sum of money against a single doughnut that the 3/3S will function in an identical fashion, at least as far as the 510 is concerned. You might miss out on some of the fancier, newer features (although the biggest is Bluetooth support – no big deal in this context), but if all I had was an Edge 510, I’d have absolutely no qualms about picking up the Vector 3.
Let me dig around a bit. I have a Stages arm on that bike for every ride, but don’t always bother to record it, since it’s left-only and thus isn’t super interesting from an accuracy standpoint.
I’ll dig back, as I recorded some rides in August and September with it.
Ray, any idea of what the variances between the 2 & 3? I have the 2 on one bike and the 3 will be going on the other, once I receive it. (Looks like CleverTraining will be shipping them today). I just trying to figure out if the variance will be something I will have to worry about going forward.
I wouldn’t expect to see any power accuracy variances (mostly because while I never bothered to write a full review of Garmin Vector 2, I also didn’t see any power accuracy issues with it either).
So now the question is pedal vs crank power. Pedal has the advantage of being swappable but I have only one road bike running time pedals and a gravel bike with spds. If money wasn’t the first consideration, how would you compare vector 3 with the new shimano and 4iii dual power meters?
I have read all your indepth reviews and find them fascinating. Just about to part with some hard earned cash for a pair of power pedals. If it was your money vector 3’s or P1’s? Can’t see much in it now.
I went through that same debate a back in the late spring. I ended up originally picking up the Powerbeats. After 8 weeks with nothing but issues with the Powerbeats, I was able to return them and switched to the Vectors.
I decided on the Vectors at that point because I was fulling invested in the Garmin ecosystem. I also felt that just having some of the metrics from the cycling dynamics would be interesting.
The P1s also provide some of the same additional metrics, but only if you use a Powertap computer. Since I didn’t want to replace my computer, the Vectors were a better choice.
If you are not after the additional metrics, then go with the one you can get the best deal on.
Many thanks Ray for this very good and in-depth review.
It is greatly appreciated since l have been sitting on the fence over the last couple of weeks to decide on my next power meter.
As for Mark, I have been invested since several years in the Garmin ecosystem for cycling computers, tri-watches and over the last year and a half the Vector 2 (dual).
Overall, never had any problems with these things and I have been satisfied. Except for the Vectors for which I had to return two sets since my first purchase in August 2016.
The first one was defective after couple of weeks and was fully replaced by the LBS/supplier under Garmin’s warranty. The second one worked without flaws until early fall this year when I have started noticing a power output difference of 30 watts on average and much more higher during sprints when I installed the bike on the Kickr. Before that, the difference was 4 to 9 watts. Balance between the two legs was also way off.
This second set was also declared defective by Garmin’s supplier and available for full replacement with Vector 3 if I want to through the LBS. Not bad! 🙂
So, although I want to give Garmin a third chance with these pedals since I enjoy the dual pedal power, switch between bikes and cycling dynamic data, I do not want to experience a third time this kind of failure. Electronics is electronics after all and Garmin through its supplier here has stand behind its warranty policy which is a good thing. I could switch to the P1 which are bigger or a Stage/4iii but I am not a big fan of crank-based power meters.
This review is therefore helpful to help me decide on the next step.
Anyway, no more pods, torque requirements and several steps calibration procedure is a good start…
Should pair just fine as an ANT+ power meter, assuming SRM aren’t doing anything funky in the specs.
If it was a hassle on V2, then honestly that’d be 100% SRM’s fault, since Vector follows the standards pretty clean-cutly (no other vendor has had issues there).
Thanks for the review. After reading around on the garmin forums I’ve become aware of a potential problem with the bearings so I’ve been watching every unboxing or review on youtube on the Vector 3.
For example: link to youtube.com
On that video, from 8:40 to 9:10, the pedals appear to be way too tight. Let alone the potential fraction of a watt you’re losing because of that, I wouldn’t want to start off on a busy intersection or an incline with my pedal hanging around on that position.
What’s your take on this? How was your set when you first got them? Did they loosen up after a while? Anyone else had this problem?
I don’t remember it being like that on any units I unboxed. If only for the reason that for photo purposes that stickiness would actually make my life a million times easier – since it keeps the pedal perfectly level. 🙂
The very first shot in the review is from just after unboxing a pair (I take them then to look pretty still). So if it were level, it’s actually be a niftier photo. Sometimes I’ll hold it level with something just out of view.
I just installed mine today (ordered beginning of October…)
Turning the cranks they behave like in the video.
If I position the bulky part of the pedal at app. “10.30-11.30 o’clock” the pedals will balance themselves and stay in that position. Any higher or lower they will find their natural position in about 2 seconds.
All in all I find it nothing to worry about. I’d rather describe the feel of the resistance as snug and quality. Not grindy or over tightened. Actually I believe my ultegras were about the same when new, and now they “dangle” freely.
Honestly, nobody can tell you the answer to that. The challenge with the Stages issue is that it’s nearly 100% bike/human configuration dependent. For some people, no issues, for others, plenty of issues.
One tip: Some folks that are seeing Stages/Fenix 5 issues have it solved by switching over the BLE transmission from Stages to the Fenix 5.
That said, Garmin’s Vector team is incredibly aware of the Stages issue (the Vector team largely is based out of Canada, in the same building as ANT+/Dynastream). I suspect this is something they tested a boatload. But as always…never say never.
I don’t think that Vector 3 will have the same reception problems as Stages with Fenix 5, because both are Garmin products and they show Vector 3 as compatible device with Fenix 5.
If any problem should occur, Garmin should take care of that in warranty. Anyway, I think they should have tested it before releasing, as Ray says.
I ordered Vector 3 in Clever Training (thanks to Ray 10% discount) and I have a Fenix 5. When I receive them I can tell you more about how they perform.
Honestly, it’s gonna be really hard to find one for at least the next few weeks unless you’ve pre-ordered somewhere (a while ago). It sounds like inventory will probably catch-up around mid-December.
Of course, sometimes you might just luck out by calling various local bike shops in Amsterdam and one might randomly have a unit that came in for a customer that then cancelled a unit…but I think it’s gonna be tough. 🙁
Interesting to hear that Garmin are now manufacturing the pedal bodies in-house; do you think Garmin will release a Shimano SPD-SL compatible pedal body at some point in the future?
Years ago after the acquisition they talked about other pedal types that wanted to go into….and it never happened.
But I think they’re in a much different (more mature) position than they were however many years ago that was. Both from a product standpoint, but also a manufacturing standpoint.
I sent an email to Garmin support asking this very same question. They replied with the below:
Regarding your question we have no updates on if that will ever come to fruition. This year on the V3 we designed our own pedal instead of using the Exustar body. So pending the market need and response we got from the Vector 2 Shimano kit, it may be easier for Garmin to do since in house design. But as of now no information.
While not a perfectly accurate comparison, the capacity is roughly equal. Yet the cost of the CR1 is a good bit higher (14USD for both pedals vs ~1.20USD). Other than longer shelf life I’m not sure what the benefits of the CR1 would be.
Have the P1 pedals, but thinking of selling/buying vector 3 for the increased clearance (one of my bikes has a super low bottom bracket. Also the better compatibility with regular look cleats (I have found the PowerTap P1 stock ones are prone to breakage). Saving 100 grams. Cycling dynamics. Running look keos on my indoor trainer bike and running these on the outside bike.
The battery choice seemed silly at first, but the chance to have different bodies in the future would be nice. I’m guessing this means potentially Shimano, but one can always dream for Speedplay-esque.
Hi,
thx for the great review!
Why would I choose a power based pedal like vector 3 over another system like power2max NGeco? looking out for a power meter but don’t know what’s more interesting.. Price for my setup would be pretty identical (need new crank for p2max). swappability between bikes isn’t an issue..
The main reason to purchase a pedal based power meter is really portability between bikes. The secondary reason to purchase a dual sensing unit is for accurate left/right metrics.
For what you’re saying, I don’t see much of a reason for you to go with Vector 3 over the NG ECO.
Stupid question. My stationary bike computer is broken. Can i use the Vector 3 to replace it? Kinda thought might as well hit two birds with one stone. Thanks
You could (assuming the bike just uses standard crank arm that have removable pedals). Just be aware that you won’t get speed from them. You’ll get power and cadence though.
Hi Ray – I am looking at the data sets and checking how the units compare in terms of mean max power at the 20 minute mark. All of the outside rides you did in October look pretty good, within 5 watts @ around 240 so well within spec. All the rides you did in November look a lot more suspect. I think the dropout issue you mentioned with the P2Max explains why that unit is reading low, but also the G3 looks significantly more variable in the November data.
Can you think of any reason why this might be?
Indeed, the P2M dropout issue complicates some of those data sets. But I’m not seeing anything obvious/of note with respect to the G3. Which specific data set and/or time?
On 10/25, 10/15, 10/9 10/4 the G3 and the Vector3 are within 1 watt at 20 minutes Mean Max Power – looks impressive almost like the Wattbike sets. On 11/5 the G3 and vector are 15 watts apart at 20 mins MMP i.e. one of the units out of spec. On 11/19 they are about 6 watts apart so just about in spec but not as impressive as the rides from October.
It looks like it’s good through about half-way into the workout, and then you see a bit of a slight shift after that point on the G3 vs Vector 3. I’d say the P2M and G3 agree, which they shouldn’t, which means that likely the G3 went slightly higher than it should of.
Could have been anything from a weird autozero or something else. Not sure.
Keep in mind that in theory, we actually shouldn’t have Vector 3 and the G3 identical (or within a watt or two). Ideally we’d be talking 5-8w of difference, with Vector 3 higher. Assuming PowerTap doesn’t slightly skew their numbers higher on their hubs…
Thanks Ray, that makes sense, I came to a similar conclusion that the Vector 3 looks the more solid of the 3 units in terms of accuracy but it takes a bit of reading between the lines. I have a couple of G3’s and now and again they do seem to glitch on the offset by up to 15 watts or so easy for me to believe that the G3 was slightly out. (Would be interesting to know if PowerTap do build in a fudge factor for the drive train!)
At the moment Vector 3’s are notable by their absence in the UK but I will take a punt on a set once they do show up here – hope that the 1% accuracy claim stands the test of time….
I recently installed my vector 3 pedals and they seamlessly paired with my edge 520, yet I can not seem to pair them to my Garmin mobile connect app on my phone. Also as you pointed out there are two different numbers on the pedals. Does it matter which one I use when attempting to pair? Also on the left pedal it’s one digit less than the right pedal. Is that right? The app asks for the seven digits so I assume it should be the right pedal. I’m “waking” them up and can see the green light but nothing. The app states it can’t find the pedals. Is there something I am not doing?
You should only be seeing a single number on Edge 520, not two numbers. That’d imply that the two aren’t linked.
As for the app not finding them, I’m not entirely sure on how to troubleshoot that. I know Garmin is monitoring the comments here, but it may be faster to hit them up on the Garmin Forums for Vector, which they are hyper-aware of.
My pedals start with a 0, thus making it 7 digits.
But a weird thing is, that the number on the left pedal is nothing like the one reported on my Edge 1000 and the apps I’m using, which shows only 5 digits.
(Entering the 7 digits stamped on the left pedal into the “control [kickr] with ant+ power meter” field in the wahoo Fitness app automatically converts the stamped 7 digit number to the 5 digits ant+ number)
I recently received a pair of Vector 3’s and have done a few rides inside using Zwift comparing the Vectors power readings with the Tacx Neo using your analyzer software. I have found the Vectors to be running consistently lower than the Neo. Here is a public link to the charts: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Have you seen similar things when you have used the two devices and do you think I should be concerned about this consistent and pretty sizable difference?
Thanks and I truly appreciate your hard work keeping us all informed,
Matthew Loggie
Hi Ray,
Love your work.
Great review as usual.
If one bought a pair of Vector3s, do you know if it would be possible to use the left and right pedals separately on 2 different bikes with separate head units?
I like the idea if having L & R Power but bring able to use as 2 separate meters would help justify the cost over the single sided option.
David
In Garmin’s topology, the left pedal is considered the master/primary pedal, and thus is required. Some companies have failover type topologies (such as 4iiii with their dual cranks), though that’s more the exception than the rule.
DOH. That’s quite clearly stated, isn’t it.
Serves me right for trying to check this on my phone before posting my question.
and then finding I can’t edit my last reply so I have to waste everyone’s time with a 2nd post to apologise for wasting everyone’s time with redundant questions. 😉
I finally received my Vector 3s this week and I have a question that I am hoping Ray or someone else can help with. For triathlon races I keep my shoes on the bike in transition for a faster T1. To practice how I race I always leave my shoes on my bike. This also saves wear on the cleats.
My question is whether or not I can calibrate the Vector 3s with my shoes clipped in or do I need to always disengage the shoes, calibrate Vector 3s, and then reengage the shoes before I start my ride with a standard running start. Thanks in advance for the guidance!
The main issue with this would be auto-zero, which could occur when your bike is in transition with the shoes attached. The weight of the shoes would affect the balance but not the total power being reported.
So make sure auto-zero is disabled before your event. Do a manual zero calibration with the shoes detached, the night before you race, and you should be good to go.
“Garmin hasn’t yet released the firmware to the public for the Bluetooth Smart power transmission pieces.. early January for release” would imply you can’t yet use the Vector 3’s with Zwift on an iPad (i.e. only Ant+, unless you have some sort of conversion)? If so, is Garmin still on target for a January release?
and they are starting to worry me. Some users are having problems connecting to their pedals with Garmins GCM software. This looks like a chicken-and-egg problem. How do I update the BLE firmware with my iPhone (and without owning a Garmin head unit) when I am not able to connect to the pedals? Would it be recommended to wait for new units to come out, which already have the new firmware installed?
Nothing has changed there, still on target as far as I know.
I think Shane figured out the silly workaround is to simply pair it to a head unit first, and then you’re good to go via the phone. I don’t know if that would trigger on a brand new pairing via a non-Garmin unit, though my assumption is yes. Obviously, no idea why it’s doing that, but it appears Garmin is active in that thread trying to see what’s going on. I suppose most of us know of a friend somewhere that has a Garmin to get it to wake up if all else fails until they can sort out a better workaround for those seeing the issue. :-/
Well, just installed my spanking new Vector 3s from Clever Training and tested them out on Zwift for a short spin. All seems in order.
Been using the Powertap P1 for the last year, probably going to switch those to my wife’s bike for her, and see how things go with the V3s. Hate having to use a pedal wrench versus just a simple hex tool though, obviously because of the location of the indicator lites no way around that.
Since I was lazy I kept my cleats for the P1’s on which seems to sort of work with the garmin, though I threw on the new cleats on another pair of shoes i had and they seem to be a far cleaner fit with the pedal. I seemed to pop out here and there with the wellgo cleats. Not terrible, just had to be a little careful.
I just installed a new set of Garmin Vector 3 pedals. I was surprised to see how much friction there seems to be in the bearings. Unlike the Shimano pedals that I just removed, you cannot spin these petals around with your fingers. They turn slowly, like they are moving through a dense liquid. Place them in a level position and let go, and they take about 4 seconds for the heavier heel end to fully drop. It makes me wonder how many watts will be lost due to this extra friction. I found similar complaints by other purchases on the Garmin site. Does anyone else see this as a problem?
I noticed the same friction in mine, initially wondered if it was a problem with the pedals, but didn’t really feel any issues while actually pedaling itself. Maybe someone else can clarify why this is the case or if there is a break in period here.
I found this thread on the Garmin site: link to forums.garmin.com
Apparently, because the pedals contain sensitive electronics, Garmin had to install waterproof seals at the spindle. Those seals impart a level of friction that you would not tolerate in a normal bike pedal. Does that really matter? If the impact is 1/10 of a watt, it should be ignored. If the impact is 5 watts, that’s unacceptable. I would like Garmin to share data to put this issue to bed.
The bearing seals in Vector 3, to ensure water resistance, do create the feeling of more pedal stiffness when moved by hand. The drag is minimal when moving and causes no significant penalty in wattage while riding. The consequential power loss is less than a ¼ watt total.
Hi Ray,
I went out for a couple of spins with the V3, did an FTP test, that was quite similar to my results with vector 2S, so in general I was satisfied, however:
-During the first rides I just torqued the pedals with a small wrench and they showed 50-50, 49-50 and so…balance
-After this they started to loose, so I realized I made a mistake not torquing them harder -» torqued them not gorilla tight, but about the advised torque with my big wrench
-Started to realize that the balance gone far to my right (43-57, 44-56)
-Did a static calibration and the left was 0,999 of the expected the right 0,89…I guess this is not normal. I don’t want do always static calibrations, do you think it is warrant to a replacement?
Te static torquing that garmin advices: put on a 11 or more weight. Measure twice the shown NM on garmin. Average and calculate the expected value weight*9,81*cranklength
Update: Removed the pedals, wiped off a bit of grease from the threads, torqued them snug by hand with a smaller wrench…just for feeling, not NM 🙂
I was worried a bit, because the static torque test showed negative values on the right, but the left was spot on.
I rod a bit on the rollers, one legged, both legs, different effort.
Performed the static test again and now both sides were spot on, within 0.01 of the expected value on both sides.
So honestly…I think it was the too much grease. And now not just Ray confirms, but I do as well: No need to torque them to 40NM anymore, just have them snug.
I finally received my set of V3 a couple of days ago, I had some similar anomalies so far. Bit too early to tell for sure, but they seem to need a bit of bedding in after swapping bikes (Ray’s method of performing a couple of sprints after fitting seems wise)
In my case, I set off for a road ride comparing the V3 with a PT G3. All looked OK then the V3 started showing much higher readings than the PT. Stopped an did a re-calibrate, problem went away. V3 reading around 8-10 watts higher than the PT which is completely expected with a chain in shocking condition like mine.
Changed them to a different bike today to do a short test against my Stages. This time the PT was reading far to low. Again the pedals were nice and tight, repeated the test after a new calibration and ended up with exactly the results I expected.
In both cases during the period with suspicious results my L-R balance was way off indicating to me that one or other of the pedals was having an issue until the re-calibration.
I will be keeping a close eye on this over the next few rides as the reason for going this route it ease of swapping between bikes and accuracy.
Having decided to go with the Vector 3 rather than Quarq I am having similar issues. A number of times I’ve calibrated before setting off and had crazy l/r imbalance. Re-calibrating seems to correct that but the power readings just don’t look right afterwards with maximum effort up climbs producing readings well below FTP. As I don’t have another power meter I’m relying on feel and HR to judge but I know what a 10 mile TT effort feels like and I’ve put in harder efforts than that, producing a high HR and power readings at least 60watts below FTP. Today a 1 1/2 hr ride produced an I’m using a Wahoo Bolt so would like to try a Garmin unit and do some turbo sessions before contacting the retailer. Any suggestions welcome.
Yesterday I swapped the pedals to my TT bike on the turbo, no issues at all, swapped back to my winter bike today and again had some inconsistent results vs my Powertap G3 before the pedals settled down.
The only think I can think of is that they just need some time to bed in – not ideal, they are after all marketed as easy to swap between bikes. I did them up pretty firm so I really don’t think that torquing them any harder will really help.
This was a 2 hour steady ride. when I set off and readings from the V3 looked too high so I re-calibrated after about 4 minutes (later analysis showed l/r balance out of wack also). Set off again, this time the V3s were reading too low (again later analysis showed l/r balance out, this time the other way around though). Another re-calibration at around 8 minutes and things started to look better until around 30 minutes in when I saw things drifting again. Another re-calibration at around 34 minutes and everything looked exactly as expected for the rest of the ride, V3 reading 3-5 watts higher than the PT which it should do if both are reading correctly.
I will do another ride Thursday without touching the pedals, hopefully I will see good accurate results from the outset this time (otherwise time to be concerned).
In my case, it is also happening the same things. With the Garmin (820) unit I have about 40-60w less, with the Wahoo Bolt unit it’s all right. I can not explain it.
Any chance you have the two .FIT files to download? It’d help tell the story of what’s going on. Or, you can upload them yourself using the Analyzer: link to dcrainmaker.com
Makes it super easy to pin-point where the discrepancy is form (head unit or power meter).
Has anyone reported any reliability issues with the Vectors? I had the first type and ended up getting my money back under warranty so am wary. Also considering the Quarq Dzero but the ease of changing bike with the Vectors is tempting – can they take the odd knock in case of an occasional ‘off’ or would you consider them prone to crash damage?
Reliability/consistency and portability are my priorities. I have a Cannondale BB30a frame and a BSA frame and Quarq advise with Rotor BSA/BB386 bearings I can move the powermeter between bikes, obviously swapping pedals is easier but would swapping cranks be straightforward or a pain?
I bit like you I had reliability issues with my Vector 2 and about 6 months ago switched to a Quarq Four. The Quarq has been fantastic and has been totally reliable and I now have 100% confidence in my power meter on every ride. What a difference!!!!!
I swap the Quarq between 2 bikes. Both Specialized road bikes which required an adapter to convert the press fit BB to GXP. Initially the adapters were a bit tight and moving the Quarq was a pain. However after ever so slightly sanding the inner surface of the adapter the Quarq can now be moved by hand without the need for a rubber mallet and the whole process from start to finish honestly takes no more than 5 mins to do methodically & carefully. This is faster than I could change my Vector 2 but obviously not as quick as Vector 3.
So for me I am very happy to stay with the reliability and confidence of the Quarq as I think I have just had too many bad experiences with my Vector 1 and 2 upgrade kit. I contacted Quarq before purchasing and they said “no problem with moving from bike to bike on a frequent basis”.
Just sharing my perspective but obviously others will have equally valid and different experiences.
Good point, but I still can’t decide for some reason. As I have no particular pedal/cleat allegiance and have eTap and the Cannondale SiSl2 cranks on my Supersix it’s hard to overlook the Vectors. But if they are that good why buy anything else unless you are set on another pedal system? Price wise there’s nothing in it once you add chainrings, except you get a top of the range crankset plus powermeter instead of a set of pedals plus powermeter!
I guess from your comment you’d be tempted towards the Vectors?
Main advantage of a Quarq or similar at this point (ignoring any hypothetical reliability items), would be pedal type choice as noted (inclusive of pedal format as well as things like stack height/weight/etc…), as well as slightly more cornering capability (for those that care about that in races).
Like a lot of other people, I think Garmin has finally found the product they were aiming for three generations ago. And within that, I think it’s going to do what people thought it’d do half a decade ago. The challenge they have now though is undoing all those perceptions from half a decade or so’s worth of internet comments about not just Vector 1/2, but also various perceptions on the PowerTap P1/etc…
Hello Ray, I may have missed it but I see Questions circling but not asked that I have seen. That being, what about Bearing servicing,adjustment and replacement issues? Your site is the first I’ve read about the Garmin Vector 3. Your reviews are very informative, thanks for that.
Thanks for the review Ray! I am going to get them ordered when my powertap p1 are returned (I had very weird issues of balance inaccuracy or battery caps not working)
I wish I could order them with your affiliate link on Amazon! Clevertraining (UK) returns policy don’t seem as easy as the Amazon one for european (France) based customers!
CT UK returns are pretty straight forward, I know a few users have done stuff over the last year and nobody has had any issues. Thanks for the support!
As always, when using 2 power meters, you never know which is right.
In my case above, I only saw a +/- 3% difference, which is inline with expectations. I don’t know what occurred in that one section on his trainer ride where the two differed by more than that. It’s odd it only occurred for that section (which was flat and relatively easy). While typically I’d side with the Neo, I also saw a case a month or so ago in a different power meter review of mine where the Neo did actually have an off section as easily demonstrated by three other power meters.
Unfortunately, this is the fun and often confusing reality of power meter testing.
Honestly, I’m using the v3-s for 2 weeks now. It is consitent (the data was almost inline with the v2s, apart that it is more accurate due to stronger right leg), I did static calibrations as well, both pedals are spot on the expected value (maybe a few 0.1 Nm difference). The pedals are much more stable than v2 , the data is stable (no sudden zeros, no strange peaks, lows). All in all, what I feel in my legs , that is reflected well on the screen, always. 🙂
Ray, took delivery of my vector3s today and after fitting did a 20 km ride on zwift. Delighted with them and a big thank you to you for the reviews and accessibility (answering questions). It has given me confidence to buy through informed decision making.
Thanks again,
Chris
Very informative review, Ray. Seems like the power aspect of the V3s are pretty spot on, but just wondering how they are as actual pedals? I had to stop using Look pedals because of their creaking, and I can’t stand noise coming from the bike. Do the V3s creak, given they seem to be using Look cleats? Also, can you swap the spindles onto Shimano SPD-SL pedals as with the previous version?
No swappage at this point, though Garmin has left the possibility open. You’ll probably remember that last time it was some time down the road before the Shimano swap-out option was announced/available.
No creaking from my Vector 3 units, though, at only 4 or so months in, perhaps that’s too soon (then again, I’ve never had any pedals creak).
Great testing and review, as always.
This time, I am trying to find out which power meter would be best on a new road bike: the Vector 3, or the Stages LR UltegraDi2. Any thoughts? Which performs best after 30,000 km? Is maintenance (replacing driver gear wheel) an issue with Stages?
Thanks.
apart from that I can’t pedal smoothly: Yes….occasionally happens that for a point in time the difference between the two is 10W, but in general, even around 300W-s they are within 4-5W.
We did a couple tests and garmin is consistent, when the pedaling is smooth the rpm is consistent (so the tacx does not have to compensate) the data is totally OK and within the error range.
Hey Ray – thanks for the fantastic reviews! I was super pumped to get my vectors in last week, but am somewhat equally deflated to discover upon installation that they are still Bluetooth dumb and won’t be working with my trainer set up until firmware is released at some point in the future..
Egg on my face for not catching the consequences of your firmware update note you added to the post above about this topic. It may be worth calling a little more attention to the fact so folks getting these as a holiday gift can have their expectations set accordingly. And it irks me that Garmin is marketing these as dual ant+/ble capable, when that’s not yet the case..
Perhaps you could throw an asterisk in where you mention at the top that the pedals are Bluetooth capable? I’m hoping Garmin is getting plenty of pressure to get the cert pushed through and out of beta. I chatted with them earlier and they had no firmware release timeline they were willing to give me.
Any update on when Bluetooth is going to work? Bought these as I love cycling dynamics but it really sucks they come without BT enabled… hoping its not too far away especially when its on the box 🙁
Hi, I received my V3 pedals a couple of days ago and so far have only used them indoors on Zwift. Everything seems good, except my pedals seem to lose connection very quickly when you stop pedalling.
A specific example: on Zwift, the mountain route – near the top there is a short downhill before the final push to the finish line. I freewheeled down that slope (estimated 5-6 seconds) then started pedalling as the road flattened out and then ramped up, however my power stayed at zero for about 2 seconds (with the watts & cadence greyed out) – after this delay connection was re-established. This happened a few other times on the ride in similar situations.
I assume this is a power-saving feature and is of less concern outdoors, however indoors it’s quite frustrating.
Has anyone else experienced anything similar, or know of a workaround?
Hi Ray, the USB stick is on an extension cable, so the sensor rests on the floor just under the non-drive side chain stay. There were no power drop-outs during normal riding, so the signal strength seems ok.
I have resently tranfered from Shimano SPD SL to the set look(a like) who followed my 3mnth old Powertap P1. They have some special cleats which I think is floating around in the pedal (+/-6%?) – I will for my next set of pedals go for the Garmin Vector 3 but I’m not sure if Powertap cleats will fit the Garmin pedals and can I for the Garmin use ordinanary look keo? Can ordinary look keo fit the Powertap?
I was too lAzy to switch off my p1 cleats for the keo ones on one pair of my shoes and they sort of work anyway. A little less secure than using the keo compatible cleats that came with the v3 as I found when I put those cleats on my other set of trainer shoes.
Hi – Thx for yet another great test. 🙂
I am having the pleasure of riding these Vector 3 pedals, and has dicovered a problem in the POC, (Platform Offset Centerline), where I see that you also seem to have some problems. On your results you have 8 & 7 mm. offset whick is pretty much and for me it is even worse as I have 10 & 8 mm despite that I have tryed to place the cleats as far away from the pedalarmside as possible which should bring the offset to the smalles value or maybe to a negative offset. This also means that the Q factor will be higher and therefore a cause for knee problems. Do you have any solutions or have you heard if Garmin are aware of this issue? Thx.
Q factor doesn’t cause knee problems, ask any fat bike owner.
Why do you think a positive PCO is a problem, what research have you read to support this?
Moving cleats will not change your PCO, if anything moving your cleats towards the outside of the shoe will make PCO larger. PCO is simply the way you push down with your foot, you can easily change it by pressing down with the inside of your foot – I can make mine -15 up to +15 very easily and consistently. Historically though, forcing your body to do unnatural movements has not been awesome from an injury perspective.
Ray mentions the dubious usefulness of cycling dynamics on a regular basis – well OK maybe he says it more politely by refering to the lack of research, but still there’s no way to tell what is better or worse.
I’m having a consistent problem with my new vector 3 pedals and the Edge 520… Since getting the Vector 3’s, my Edge 520 silently turns off about every 6 miles. It never did this before pairing with the Vector 3’s. My Forerunner 920XT does not exhibit this problem. All software/firmware on both the Vector 3’s and Edge 520 are current.
I contacted Garmin support and they asked me to download my 520 history files and send it to them. I did this a few weeks ago, and Customer Support said that Engineering is now looking into it.
Anybody else having this issue with the Vector 3 and Edge 520?
I’m starting to feel like a Beta tester.
thanks
Paul
If it’s ‘about’ every 6 miles, that almost sounds like it might be failing every 10KM, which almost sounds like perhaps there’s some sort of alert/autolap/something that’s triggering every 10KM causing a crash.
Either way, I’d bet pretty strongly it’s not Vector, but rather an update or similar that got to your Edge 520 that’s causing it. It would be interesting to go for a quick drive with your Edge 520 and see if it triggers a failure at the 6mi marker again.
Thanks for the quick reply on the Vector 3 / Edge 520. I’ll try de-pairing with my 520 and see if the shutdowns continue. With respect to some sort of auto-lap shutdown, the events may be a bit too random for this, but software issues escape me. To elaborate on perhaps some boring chronology, I received my Vector 3’s from Clever Training on 12/7. Most data is from commutes to/from work, which, depending on route, is about 16 miles each way. Note the miles between shutdowns and the occasional successful ride to completion:
12/8 AM: 17.25 miles – no issue
12/10 AM: 7.14 miles – shutdown
5.47 miles – shutdown
19.46 miles – ride end (no shutdowns for over 19 miles)
12/11 AM: 6.26 miles – shutdown
5.47 miles – shutdown
2.45 miles – ride end
12/11 PM: 5.70 miles – shutdown
5.88 miles – shutdown
1.23 miles – ride end
12/12 AM 6.34 miles – shutdown
9.10 miles – ride end
12/12 PM 15.8 miles – ride end (worked the whole ride home!)
12/14 AM 5.89 miles – shutdown
6.11 miles – shutdown
1.19 miles – ride end
12/15 AM 5.48 miles – shutdown
5.86 miles – shutdown (didn’t turn back on)
12/15 PM 5.36 miles – shutdown
4.97 miles – shutdown (didn’t turn back on)
Thank you for the details Paul. I can confirm we are investigating reports of shutdowns when the Edge 520 is paired with Vector 3. We will reach out to you through our support channel once we have a resolution. Apologies for the frustration.
I installed a beta software update from Garmin into my 520, and after several weeks of use with it, it appears to have resolved the random shutdown problem I was having when using the Vector 3 with the Varia radar.
1) Shutdown’s: I haven’t heard of other units impacted, but then again, the one individual above is I think the only instance of it occurring.
2) Updates: Not sure there, the theory is you’d be able to update via the mobile app, though I think Garmin is looking into why that’s not triggering for some people (I opened up a new pair the other day, and the mobile app found it just fine before i ever contacted it with a Garmin head unit).
3) Correct, they are Exustar ARC2 cleats (you can make it out in the picture), but are fully Look Keo compatible, so you can use Keo cleats if you prefer.
Fwiw, so does Clever Training. For EU folks they can use http://www.Clevertraining.co.uk and the DCR discount code (DCR10BTF), and the US folks can get 10% off most things and 10% back in points on the remainder at just http://www.clevertraining.com – all of which support the site here.
Has anyone measure the nut thread total length (from extreme to extreme) in the Vector 3. I would like to check if I will need the washer spacer or not. I’ve searched in the Garmin Vector 3 user’s guide but there is not such data. I add a picture with the measure I’m looking for
Like always I very much enjoy reading your reviews. Your site is the first I go to when buying some new technology for bike or running (got the Kickr and the FR35 after reading your in debt reviews).
I’m now on the market for a power meter and very much like the look of the vector 3 pedals. The only concern I have is the tests Shane Miller (Daily Lama) has conducted where he found discrepancies when using ERG mode where the new vectors seem to read a lot higher. I’ve followed his thread and Garmin has replied to his comments but yet not found the reason why the vectors were doing this. As Shane is using your software and I’ve seen him mention you occasionally, I wouldn’t be surprised you are aware of his issue with the pedals? If you do, what is your take on it? And have you experienced anything like it when using ERG mode for a constant effort (e.g. sweet spot work,…)
Yup, aware of it, and been chatting with Lama about it as well.
Neither of us (nor apparently Garmin) are clear why it’s happening to him. Be it a certain use case with his hardware (other pieces), his Vector units, or something else.
It’s actually not seen in my files. The differences shown in my files are all within spec. Definitely following it though (though, I haven’t seen anyone else show the same, hopefully we’ll have clarity soon).
Ray – Just received my V3 units and noticed the battery covers behave differently on each pedal. On the right hand side the cover screws closed to a stop. On the left hand side, it screws closed to just beyond finger tight then, on further tightening it loosens slightly and goes around the final tightening circle again – and so on. When left at max screw-in, the LHS is sitting snug, so not sure if this is a manufacturing defect or something to be worried about. Any advice?
Philip- Please reach out to us at social@garmin.com, mention my name in the email and that I asked to have you contact us about your battery covers. Thank you.
Gonna try to be brief. Seek your input based of what follows:
Which power pedal for what I desire (Favero Assioma, Garmin Vector 3, Powertap P1)?
Not sure what I will do in 2018 in the way of specificity. I desire to capture data for left and right pedal strokes to assist in understanding bike fit (cleats forward/back, seat up/down, slide forward on seat and slide back, to shimming a cleat. The additional pedaling analytics GPR,GPA, Power Phase… is welcome to the power balance and pedal smoothness.
Most of the time will be spent on the trainer for each bike. I even desire to see what occurs on my mountain bike when I change the link on my full suspension to adjust the degree of head tube angle and setting up my hardtail. Of course I will be wearing road shoes and hopefully understand bike fit better when I get to this trial.
What would I see on a Garmin 502 head unit when using Favero Assioma and Powertap P1?
I’m thinking my goal is to see the power phase and is this only available with Garmin Vector3 and Garmin Cycling Dynamics? Is it viewable with Powertap P1 with or without their app? Will Favero Assioma offer anything more than an accurate watt number?
You might say that this is over kill. But with the mindset of the least amount of the most effective exercise at the appropriate time leads to the time counting. I have had bike fits and read as much about them as there is on power meters.
I am now at a place where I can satisfy me after reading your power meter articles. I see the discounts you mention available from using the code. It looks like Clever Training also has another 10% available???
Getting the Garmin Vector3 pedals within $100 of the Favero Assioma almost settles the issue.
You may tell me that I am going about this all wrong.
I welcome your reply.
No hex key removal. Compared with better look cleat compatibility. Want to swap a single pedal frequently and have both Park spanner and their pedal hex key. Much prefer the hex key (Assioma). How big a deal do you find this Ray when swapping daily?
How do the cranks look after being assaulted by that big blue spanner on a daily basis?
Hi.
Really love the site in general and this review in particular.
Do you have updated info on transmission of Power data using Bluetooth?
All the best
Kristian, Norway
Awesome. The Vector 3S is my first powermeter and was really looking forward to playing around with them. Problem is that since I am using a Polar computer the pedals are pretty much useless at this point. Crossing my fingers for a actual imminent release.
I am in the market for a Vector 3 power meters but do not want to invest in an expensive bike computer.
With that said, I understand that a lack of computer will limit my display options unless I can hopefully pair it it with my Forerunner 935 and/or Iphone 6 running Garmin Connect.
My questions are the following:
1. If paired to my 935, will I be able to see the wattage displayed?
2. If paired with my Iphone 6 running the Garmin Connect and setting is on LIVETRACK, will I get be getting instantaneous and live wattage values and pedal metrics and if so, can anyone send a screenshot of what it would look like as an example?
3. If no to question #1 and #2, are there apps I can use I can install on my 935 or Iphone and display live metrics in place of a bike computer?
1) Yes
2) You’ll get live power, but no pedal metrics. Honestly though, using that app that way for just displaying on your phone is a bit of a complex solution. Personally, I’d just use some free 3rd party apps. For example, the Wahoo Fitness app works just fine (once Garmin enables the BLE support here any day/week now).
Hi, I have the Vector 3S and can see that the readings on Zwift from a Tacx Vortex is way higher than the Vector 3s. Around 60 watts higher on Zwift at FTP, though I am inclined to think that the Vector’s are way more accurate than what the Vortex measures, even for a single sided power meter (I probably have a leg imbalance as well). The Vector 3S numbers seem to feel right for my ability.
The only downside is that Garmin have not yet released the software update for BT smart – I checked with them today and they confirmed it is in testing and will be released soon, so I will just have to stick with an Ant+ dongle.
I’m not sure. They’ve said they were start doing Garmin.com orders after most other retail channels caught up. I think they’re getting closer.
But given you can purchase it in the US or Europe with relatively minimal delay these days (and if in Europe, at a discount), I’m not sure what the advantage is of Garmin.com.
Searched a bit and it seems for now Cycling Dynamics is not accessible unless you use Garmin supported devices or a very short list of clients like Trainer Road. I’ve got an Elemnt and even with TWG stuff, its going to be a while if ever.
I’m surprised Garmin doesn’t make possible saving CD data via the Garmin Mobile app. There’s not reason for me to get the Vector 3 over the 3S. Am I missing something?
I have had two issues with my Vector 3 pedals my first set which were returned under warranty would flash green and red lights on both pedals and after a couple of weeks the pedals would only stay connected for about 10 seconds.
My new set will occasionally show a message on my Edge 820 “Right Sensor Missing” and when it happens the left pedal will go into a series of 3 flashing green lights the first time I noticed this was about two hours after powering down the head unit I assume it would have flashed until the battery was completely drained had I not reconnected the sensor and powered off the head unit while both pedals were connected.
A couple of days ago I got the alternating lights again green and red, I think the problem might be in the Edge 820 anyone else seen behavior like this?
I was looking forward to these but with it now being just shy of 4 months since full payment on a pre-order with no concrete shipping date, I’ve finally given up and got a refund to spend the money on something else or possibly still get them down the track when they are readily available and have had some long term usage by the lucky recipients…
In general, retailers had to place pre-orders back before it was announced (and/or the same day it was announced). But still, most of those types of orders have been cleared in the US and Europe. My guess is that for retailers that aren’t having major delays (i.e. only a few weeks), is that they place significant pre-orders early to account for sales well through early 2018.
I’m in the same situation, but in NZ… we use the Australian shipping channel though. ordered and paid through LBS in September last year. Local Garmin product info is next to useless…
Clever Training sent an update last night, their expected shipment this week did not end up shipping, they are now estimating end of month to receive a shipment to satisfy current backorders.
Actually there is a lot a powermeter in the market, and the choise is difficult.
What is your advise for the best solution price/accuracy/durability :
– Used SRM with PC8 – 1000/1200€
– Garmin Vector 3 with – 520 1200€
– P2M ng eco / 520 – 900€
– Assioma Duo / 520 – 1000€
I have a Wahoo Elemnt and recently purchased Vector 3s.I’m a bit disappointed that I can’t sync with Garmin Connect (should have checked first) and that I can’t use Cycling Dynamics.
Before I sell my Elemnt and purchase a Garmin.
Can anyone answer these questions:
– Does anyone use an Elemnt with their Vector pedals and are you happy that they are producing an accurate ouput?
– Why is there no calibrate option on the Elemnt (just one to Forget the sensor)?
– How do I calibrate the pedals without this option?
– If I have left and right average of 45/55, does this just mean that I put more power down with my right leg or do I need to recalibrate?
– On smoothness, one pedal keeps cutting out – is this normal? What am I aiming for here – matching numbers?
Hi, I use an Elemnt Bolt. At first the readings were a bit wayward but now they match a Garmin 520 readings. You calibrate by pressing the power button once on the lower edge, this takes you to settings and you scroll down to sensors. As long as you’ve turned the cranks the powermeter will be recognised and the left hand of the bottom 3 keys gives you calibrate option.
When I got the Vectors I sent my faulty 520 back for repair so I could get Cycling Dynamics, not sure why I bothered really as the Bolt gives me all the data I can use.
Each to their own but I don’t think you’ll gain much by getting a Garmin head unit – certainly not £200 worth.
That is where I was looking but I will have another look in case I missed the calibrate option. I’m now wondering whether this works on the Elemnt Bolt but not the Elemnt.
Presumably there is no need to set crank length anywhere?
Hello, I think I set the crank length in the app on my smartphone. Yes I use 3s average on both my 520 and my Bolt.
I’m due to do an FTP effort on Saturday and will record it on both head units to see if there is any difference but I don’t expect there to be. At first I had similar concerns about The Elemnt but I think The issues were down to the pedals bedding in after swapping bikes and me not being clear on the calibration process – which is dead simple. After swapping bikes I now do that before any ride and then a few minutes in after a couple of short harder efforts.
Incredible review of a product I’m really interested in! Overall, more than I needed to konw, but there was one key (for me) issue that you didn’t comment on. With the original Vectors, which I am still riding, the cadence limit was 150rpm or something and in practice I find that over 160rpm it just cuts out meaning that I cannot measure very high cadence sprints. You comment on this limit in the review of the original Vectors but nothing about it here. Do you know if there still a cadence limit and whether or not this point is the same?
I have the 3S with a Garmin Edge 520 head unit. Having seen your post, on my workout tonight I whipped up my cadence to 169 which registered on the Vector 3S and Edge 520 head unit. I could only hold for about 3 seconds though :-). One thing I did notice when I ramped it up, the cadence briefly displayed erratic readings – it must have been milliseconds but I certainly did see it register. It looks as though I had a drop out in connection but I cannot remember if I stopped then tried again – I think I must have done, as a wattage of 22 registered. Looking at my cadence in the files after the workout, the increase in cadence over the 3 seconds each time I tried was smooth (I took off smoothing on TrainingPeaks).
Hope that helps. I can have another go during my next workout and report back.
I only had that in me the once and I was spinning a light gear – my power at the time was around 340 Watts, so I am not going to be troubling any sprinters any time soon. It was on an indoor trainer as well. I have a attached the peak in cadence for reference.
Hi Carl S, Thanks very much for testing this out! Your sprint is actually very similar to the kind where I get complete loss of data. I use an indoor training program called TrainerRoad which includes ‘form sprints’ (high cadence low power) and before I get to the high cadence you achieved both power and cadence drop out even though I’m still pedalling. From your description and the helpful graph you posted, it looks like the situation has been greatly improved with the 3S but not entirely eliminated as you mention the eratic readings. Anyway, this is very informative and a real help. Thanks again for literally going the distance to check this out! I know this is not an easy thing to research!
BTW I use TrainerRoad and a Tacx Vortex Smart, with an Ant+ dongle connected to my Mac. TrainerRoad works fine with this set up, with readings from the Vectors, controlling the trainer through the app during intervals. I am really happy with the Vector’s so far and they feel very constant from ride to ride, providing all the calibration protocols are done.
Thanks for the follow up, Carl S. It sounds like you have an excellent set up there for TrainerRoad, definitely something I would like to replicate in the long run. I’m not in a position to get a smart trainer at the moment as I will be moving overseas in a few months so making do with resistance (dumb) rollers but upgrading the Vectors is looking like an atractive option at the moment.
I had the same issue starting Jan 14th after my GC mobile updated. Both Vector 3 pedals would blink Green/Red whenever my Android phone would be in range of the pedals even though the GC app says not connected. Tried unpairing/repairing, restarting phone, removing battery from pedals,…etc. I also let Pedal blinking/update run all night draining the batteries but it never finished. If I remove the Vector 3 pedals from my GC/phone, the blinking/updating stops and the pedals work fine. Tried adding the pedals back again yesterday Jan 17th and the blinking/updating started again. Had no issues prior to the GC mobile update.
Thanks for great review! Does anyone have tried to use these Vectors with Polar V800 or other Polar unit? Because in the Polar page, Vectors are not on the supported power sensors list: link to support.polar.com
Thanks!
Thanks for the update. I am following this closely because deciding whether to go for Vector 3 or Powertap. Vector 3 not an option until it can connect to V800 or M460.
They’re getting me a more detailed date today. They did confirm it passed the BLE SIG, and they were working to address a regression in test before they released it.
Yes, current date is ‘Early Feb’, so basically within the next couple weeks. They said they were good with that date, assuming no further regressions in the beta build.
If my technology skills allow (not hopeful) I intend to start a closed FB group for vector 3 users. Have no intention of stepping on Rays shoes or stealing any thunder but such a group may be able to ask questions and discuss experieces as the product becomes more main stream leaving Ray to product review.
Any thoughts?
The only caveat I’d note is that Garmin does have their official support forum, which they are pretty active in. My guess is it’d be hard for them to follow more places on-line. But if that’s not a desire, then no worries.
I’m looking to invest in the Vector3 as my first power meter. Firstly the device I am going to be pairing with is a garmin fenix3 as I don’t own a head unit. Will all the cycling dinamics be available to that device and will it transfer all data to garmin connect via that device?
Secondly I am using a campagnolo Bullet crank which was one of only 2 that wasn’t compatible with Vector1/2s because of the thickness and addition of the pods. I was hoping the new version 3s would be fine. Any thoughts.
Thanks
P.s. Thanks for all the articles that have influenced me in various products, be it to purchase or not
Thanks Ray.
I have now created a Facebook group called Vector 3 users and would be delighted and honoured if you were able to join it so as to keep the advice coming.
Thanks for such a great review! Just trying to decide on the single or double Vector 3. No idea how much of a power discrepancy I have on the L vs R. I am sure that changes all the time. It is a lot of money an I am trying to justify the double pedals. Thoughts?
Thanks for the great review. I’m considering the Vector 3’s but I’m a bit concerned with the weight limit of 105Kg. I’m normally 104Kg so with cycling gear on would be a bit over 105Kg. I don’t see this limit with other pedal power meters. Don’t want to risk any problems with the pedals so would you recommend others?
Do I need every time before usage of Vector 3 (on the same bike, just different day) calibrate it via Garmin 1000? Is there any effect on calibration if I unclip pedals and press “calibrate” at horizontal level or vertical level pedals versus floor level ?
Hi Mark,
It would be helpful to do a zero calibration before each ride as a best practices approach. Pedal position will not impact the calibration if there is no load on the pedals. After a re-installation of the pedals a manual calibration is recommended.
I don’t know where in the world you are from, but are you able to find out what product availability for these pedals is expected for the AUS/NZ part of the world? I don’t think Garmin wants the southern hemisphere to use their products 🙁 I have been advised by local bike shops in NZ and AUS, that nowhere has recieved any stock, despite numerous pre-orders. Shocking support by Garmin International.
Hi Paul
There’s a number of AU online retailers advertising “in stock” (Highly Tuned Athletes and Pushys for example). I talked to an NZ retailers today and they’re expecting their first stock over the next couple of days
Am I able to do it in Garmin connect app? Or is it a different calibration to that. Issue is I don’t use an edge and I don’t take my forerunner on rides and as per Rays recommendations, I should do a few short sprints before re-calibrating. Would be nice if I could do that then just do it on my phone?
Thx for great review again! With many years of bad itch to get a power meter I finally decided to go for it and get 3rd gen Vectors. Pedal makes most sense for me with a total of 6 road/cx/tri bikes in use (w/o MTBs). My question: does anyone know for sure that Garmin Vector 3 will support simultaneously ANT+ and BLE? I.e. can I have L/R power displayed on a compatible Garmin Edge device and get one channel/combined power on some BLE device (like Polar V800 that I am using)? To Garmin: I have high hopes that you would implement two-sided L/R BLE later with a firmware upgrade, but until that I would have to go with using 2 devices to get full benefit.
Are these vaporware? Does anyone have these . . . purchased via a retail outlet? I’ve been on the Garmin’s email notification list since November . . . no update. Should I be concerned that there is a quality issue as these haven’t been released for mass consumption?
Hi Todd,
We tend to sell through our retail outlets first and are currently shipping to our retailers. You might want to reach out to your local Garmin Dealer. Please feel free to reach out to us if you are unable to locate a set and we will help.
Shawn – I contacted local dealers who would stock or would order a 1K specialty bike product, and they do not have any in stock or plan to have any in stock. Many would order but have no idea as to availability.
So, I reached out to customer support and got a big fat zero . . . I was told I can try to order of 2/16/18.
Shopping in local shops in 2018? I admire you 🙂 But on serious note. Power meters are still rather niche products and are not widely available in local shops (never were). The best way to buy power meter of any brand is through online retailer or even directly from manufacturer.
I have a set of vector 3s coming my way will they work ok with my Wahoo elemnt? and as my first power meter which i want to use to help track and increase fitness have i made a good choice?
They work great with the ELEMNT. Well I only have the 3S, but I think the dual setup 3 will work transparently but will *not* have the Cycling Dynamics features that show power differences left and right.
Hey, do you know if the Edge 500 is compatible with the Vector 3 pedals? I have asked Garmin and they pointed me to their compatibility page which suggests the Edge 500 isn’t compatible but since it works on ANT+ why wouldn’t it work? Thanks, Kevin
It works all good, except you don’t get Cycling Dynamics information. So you’ll get total power, power balance, cadence. But none of the seated/standing type stuff, nor the platform center offset pieces or power phase stuff.
Thanks Ray. Will cycling dynamics be available on Garmin Connect for post ride analysis if the ride is recorded on the Edge 500? Or not available at all?
Hi Ray
Tested my vector 3/Edge 1030 against watt bike atom and vector 3 are running at lower power output by c15%. Anything I should check on the vector 3 settings that Im missing. Thanks
A) Double-check crank length is set (or just set it to something like 170.0 for a few seconds, then set it to whatever your crank length is, which 110% ensures it’ll confirm that entry).
B) Do 2-4 super quick sprints, just 5-10 seconds is fine, reasonably hard. Then do a zero offset.
C) Then see where things are. I’d expect Vector 3 to run slightly higher than the Atom, just slightly.
Beyond those things, the next trick would be figuring out whether it’s Atom or Vector that’s out. Unfortunately, that’s a wee bit trickier.
Great review!! I purchased a vector 3S. But somehow I can’t get the pedal to pair with my Suunto spartan watch?! I can pair the pedal via ANT+ to my Garmin Edge. I can pair it via Buetooth to the Garmin app on my phone. I can connect my watch via Bluetooth to my phone, But I can’t pair the vector pedal to my Suunto watch. I had no trouble at all pairing a stages power meter to the watch. Can anybody help me out here?
Got my Vector 3 pedals last night. Only got to check them out for a few minutes but this feels like a very well-made product. The prior versions of the Vector did not really feel like a finished product. The Vector 3 from a hardware standpoint looks like a finished product. So far, very happy that I switched to Vector from the PT pedals. I bet Powertap starts getting real nervous.
Where do you see Vector 2 having issues below 5*C? They’re rated for -10C*, and given the Vector team is based in the mountains of Alberta, Canada which is pretty much below 0*C all winter long…
I just bought the Garmin Vector 3 recently and would like to share my experience with everyone:
I was using Shimano 6800 pedal and switched to the Vector 3.
I replaced the cleat come with the Vector 3, it works ok but don’t feel comfortable with the cleat installation done by myself. Place a visit to my bike fitter to re-install the cleat and found that my bike fitter can’t use Ergon tool to install it because Garmin cleat is not the same sharp as Look Keo. I bought a Look Keo 4.5 degree float cleat and get the installation done by using Ergon cleat tool.
I ride on the trainer last night and discovered that the float of the cleat is bigger than I thought. This 4.5 degree float Look Keo cleat and bigger float than the 6 degree Garmin cleat. I wonder the pedal is not 100% compatible with Look Keo cleat….
Anyone else have the same issue?
Thank you Ray!! very helpful review!! I started use Vector 3 after year of Stages PM. I noticed a small difference from power value between them (a little bit higher for V3). What do you think? Is that it?
Fairly normal. Technically speaking Vector 3 would measure almost negligibly higher than Stages due to losses.
But realistically what you’re likely looking at is that your left/right balance is skewed slightly on Stages (since it only measures left leg and doubles it). Versus Vector which measures both legs.
Fwiw, if you really want to dig into it, you can actually load both files (from the same ride) up in the DCR Analyzer (link to dcrainmaker.com), and then within the graphs you’ll see a left/right balance graph, which allows you to compare the left leg of Stages to the left leg of Vector 3.
sorry….I wrote Vector 3 but I actually have a Vector 3s. So I think you are right….the higher values for the Vector 3s depend on the losses in the measure that are different for the two PM. The Vector 3 measure the power on the pedal axe….so the losses are smaller then the Stages.
Wow! This article answers all the questions I had about pedal power meters and, I guess, all the ones I should have had but didn’t. Unfortunately after reading this I realize I better read the other articles on power meters as well before assuming I was right in limiting myself to pedal meters.
Hi I just got a set of vector 3 pedals and installed them on my bike, I am using a wahoo element bolt and paired the pedals to the device, I am a bit unsure on how to calibrate or do a zero offset using the element bolt if you could advise that would be great.
I connected through the garmin connect app and changed in settings from the default crank length to 175mm which mine are but do I need to do this on my ELEMNT bolt also?
Finally as the weather was too bad to go outside to test the pedals I put my bike on my kickr and connected to zwift I changed from the kickr to the pedals for power source and went riding my power figures seemed way higher using the pedals as power source. So when I unpair on the sensor screen I can see what the kickr is reading and the pedals and there was a difference of 300-40watts with the pedals reading higher.
Have I don’t something wrong?
I’m using your exact setup. On crank length, you set it in the Garmin Connect app and it stores it in the pedal. No need to change it in other apps.
On calibration, if you have latest firmware for your ELEMNT, go into the sensor screen (power button), scroll down to the sensor, you should see a “calibrate” option above your center button.
On Kickr power, I noticed that too. One source of difference is that there is power loss in the drive train and in the Kickr itself. The pedal is receiving raw push power not reduced by the transmission drive train. Did you mean 30-40 not 300-40? 🙂 Even 30-40 seems too high. Try the calibrate button.
Hi Andrew thanks for your reply.
I had seen a post somewhere about the calibration and tried it initially but it didn’t work as I was spinning the crank.
So tried it again with the crank stationery and it calibrated fine, re tried zwift again and it was matching the kickr.
Slightly disappointed cause I thought maybe the kickr was reading low and I was actually putting out more power but sadly not haha.
Hi! Still no word of when the Bluetooth is available? I don’t want to buy an ant+ stick for $100 to get in trainer road. it’s crazy that it has taken so long… thanks
Very very soon. Garmin stated ‘early Feb’ last week or so, and re-confirmed that two days ago to me (along with the final version to try out). They also noted their displeasure at it taking so long.
I just got a feedback from their Customer service in Germany that the upate is announced but they have no idea when and if it will work for example with a Suunto Spartan. Thanks Garmin…
Bought a set of Vector 3 pedals and seeing some odd behaviour when comparing against my Tacx Bushido Smart.
Did a ride on Zwift and for the first 45 minutes the Vector 3 and Bushido track very closely and my L/R balance is about 50/50.
After a period of low Watts (downhill from mountain) I’m suddenly seeing a gap of 30-40W between the Vector 3 and Bushido (also, the L/R balance is now 55/45, the right pedal is reporting less power).
Have you seen this behaviour before?
Wondering if there’s an issue with the pedals…
That’s weird. I’d agree that your left/right split totally goes wonk at the 40-minute marker. But I suppose that could also be after a hard effort for your first 40 minutes (if you didn’t see that as a hard effort, then I’d lean towards something else being up).
I’d be interesting if you did a zero offset if the left/right balance is still weird. If so, I’d hit up Garmin Support. If it had just been a total power shift between the two units, I’d be more inclined to blame the Bushido (temp shifts, etc..), but for the left/right balance to randomly go out, I’d lean towards Garmin.
I’ve got just the same issue with my vector 3. The total power drop 30-40w down, and it’s the right pedal fault.
D.C – it’s not related to high watt at the beginning, for me it’s appear for the start of the ride. Nothing solve the problem.
It’s was the 5th ride with the vector 3, after 4 good rides.
I’ve left them at the warranty support lab yesterday, and I’m waiting for them to reply.
I’ll keep you posted.
Note:
It’s happened while I was on the Bushido too – hop it’s not the issue…??
I’ve done a few more rides and a number of zero offsets as well.
The Bushido and the Vector seem to be much more in line now.
See this ride from today, they track closely except at the lowest watts.
The L/R balance was 50/50 as well over 75 mins. link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
I’m happy with this evolution.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
I have one question and I know you can give some light in the matter. I am pretty closed in buying a power meter now, I know they are great tools to track your progress and do your training. I going to buy a pedal base power meter since they acurate, easy to move and also price accesible for me now and my question is the following what are the differences between a single leg or dual leg pedal base power meter?, I mean how can I benefit in real life from a single leg to a dual leg one?
I’ve just purchased the Vector 3S and will switch them between my roadie and Tri bike. I was wondering, can you buy a single right sided Garmin pedal? Given my tri bike just sits on the trainer, it would be even better only having to swap the one pedal each time!
No, I’m not aware of any way to buy just a blank right pedal. Though, I agree, that would be kinda logical. Perhaps reach out to Garmin support and see if maybe there’s an option through a special service SKU or something? I suspect they must have some option to handle damaged non-sensor pedals.
If anyone tries changing the batteries, be really careful when removing them and then inserting the battery door into the pedal. Plenty of info on the Garmin forums about this but it is really easy to strip the threads and screw the door in at the wrong angle.
Be careful when removing the batteries from the holder as well, as you can remove some clear strips from the side contacts, which can cause false readings. I would use your fingers, rather than a knife edge/flat screwdriver.
I just had to change out my first set of batteries for the Garmin Vector 3 Pedals (dual-sided) since getting them at Xmas. My total run time according to Strava was 83h10m, but I added a 1.05 multiplier to get 87 hours or so because the pedals were probably on for some of the time before and after rides, and more importantly, before and after cafe stops. I live in Northern California and temperatures ranged from 45-75F during this time. I did not use these in the rain. I did not spill coffee on them during my cafe stops. Pedal smoothness was disabled.
I started getting low battery warnings on my Garmin 820 head unit for the last 40 hours or so, but when I checked the battery life using the Garmin mobile app via bluetooth on my phone, it showed 3 full bars. Finally, today, the 3 full bars instantly turned into 1 red bar and I was convinced to change them. During those 40 hours though, I had perfect data from both pedals. This sounds like a voltage calibration issue before the pedals should start (prematurely) issuing the warning to the head unit. Garmin should address this via a firmware update.
The battery change was straight forward, just needing a 4mm hex. The problem though, however, is the yellow rubber o-ring. Af part of the waterproofing, Garmin opted for a thin, yellow o-ring that freely floats inside the spindle. This o-ring is not going to cut it. It’s incredibly flimsy and seems to get caught in the threads of the cap, no matter how careful you are (I have a very steady hand for this type of task). If I were to guess, the o-ring will break after a couple more battery replacements … so where do we get o-ring replacements??? Garmin? Anyone figured out a replacement from a random hardware store? We shouldn’t have to do that for a $1,000 product …
@Kendrick I’m nearly 100% sure in my box there was a bag with some yellow o rings in them!
Now I’m worried my pedals have no O-rings fitted at all!
Do the pedals come from Garmin with batteries already installed?
Hopefully they are just spare o-rings.
I raised the low battery message on the head unit with Garmin support (GCM gives three bars an ‘good’). They got back to me saying they had added my issue to the case, so I think mine is not an isolated issue. They said the are treating it as urgent and hope to resolve it quickly.
FWIW, I split protein drink on my pedals – the expected turbo boost in watts did not materialise.
I’ve been offered a set of these second hand with only a couple of month’s use and I’m SERIOUSLY considering the offer since the price is rather tempting. Does anyone know if Garmin’s warranty is transferable or it still applies if the product is bought second hand (but inside the warranty period, naturally)
As long as you get a copy of the original sales receipt from an authorized retailer, you should be fine.
I am basing this on my experience with Garmin product warranties, and this section below:
Online Auction Purchases: Products purchased through online auctions are not eligible for rebates or other special offers from Garmin warranty coverage. Online auction confirmations are not accepted for warranty verification. To obtain warranty service, an original or copy of the sales receipt from the original retailer is required. Garmin will not replace missing components from any package purchased through an online auction.
Just as a quick heads up to those following along on comment subscriptions, Garmin has released the Vector 3 BLE firmware. Details here: link to dcrainmaker.com
I ordered the Vector 3 in early January from Clever Training and as of now it remains in pre-order status through at least March. Any explanation for the break in the supply chain?
I know they got delayed coming out of Christmas a few weeks, and then started catching up. But now you’re battling Chinese New Year (Garmin’s factory is in Taiwan, which celebrates as well). That basically takes everything in the tech world offline for two weeks (+).
Very happy that I was able to get them instantly, instead of the indicated 5-7 weeks (which has been pushed several times)
Thanks for the Bluetooth upgrade info. Great to be able to stick to my training program when at work offshore and it will be great to have a small kit like this for travel. Just now realising all the potential that opens up with these and a small pedal key.
Thanks Ray for all your super detailed reviews that always answers way more issues than I ever thought I would be curious about.
It works fine with one major caveat. Once you switch bike, you will need to ride it for a while before you can be sure of correct readings. There are a couple of reasons for this,
– V3 needs to adjust for the new installation torque,
– also needs to adjust for the spindle orientation
In addition to this, the pedals may “bed in” over the first couple of hard efforts and so again the torque may alter slightly and all the above adjustments take a finite period of time.
When I first used the pedals I was quite worried that there was an accuracy issue (I bought them specifically for the accuracy claims plus the ease of bike switch so I get no variation due to different PMs when testing on TT bike vs road bike) because they seemed off after moving between bikes almost every time, but once I understood the above process I am happy enough to work around it.
You can speed up the adjustment by resetting the install angles – some more info appears in this thread. link to forums.garmin.com
My change bike routine is once I switch the pedals over I do the normal zero offset calibration followed by the install angle reset, ride for a few minutes and repeat the zero offset reset. After that it seems to work well.
Thanks Martin. You’ve made that sound quite simple. One question, can you do a install angle reset without owning an edge? I use a bolt (although I do have a forerunner 935 but don’t take it on rides). Also, is there anyway of knowing when you are ok to do the second zero offset or do you just give it a couple of short hard effort like Ray suggests? Cheers
Hi Stu, I think the reset install angle might be available in the Connect app (although the app seems a bit flakey from what I can see, e.g. it ignores when I adjust crank length for example) – if not, then it will still self adjust but might take a bit longer so shouldn’t be a show stopper.
I generally do the second zero offset after a 10-15 minute warm up and that seems fine, probably the quick couple of sprints is enough though. It would be nice if Shawn@Garmin or someone could give us an estimate for best and worse case for the V3 to self adjust so that we know 😉
Ray – If you had your bike setup on a Cycleops Hammer with Garmin Vector 3 pedals, which method of power tracking would you pick when recording your indoor training sessions? Would you use the built-in Cycleops Power Meter or Vector 3 Power Meter? Many thanks!
Personally, I generally go with the power meter over the trainer, since the number is applicable inside and outside. Sometimes with the Tacx Neo specifically, if I’m lazy I’ll just use that. Since it’s one of the few trainers I truly trust on power accuracy.
One question occurs to me now that the BLE firmware has been released – when connecting to a Wahoo Elemnt. Bolt, which is the best way to connect- BLE or ANT+ ?
Ant+. Quote from comment written by official Wahoo representative under Elemnt Bolt review:
“(…)After several comments and emails I’ve been looking into the reported problems and unfortunately we had some internal confusion and things didn’t get escalated correctly. There is two known problems:
1. L/R BT Power Sensors are not supported, this has been a known limitation since we launched, this is because they actually two sensors. Our preferred solution here is to always connect via ANT+, you still get L/R data and this is our preferred method for all duel BT/ANT+ sensors as it leaves the BT connection open for the phone for things like firmware updates without blocking connections. We normally do this prefer ANT+ logic internally but require a few things from the manufacture.”
Just wanted to make a quick post that may be useful to someone.
So I was riding on my zwift using my kickr and vector 3 pedals and my left pedals started creaking really bad, of course I panicked and thought I had got a faulty product.
Anyway a quick google and I came across a gcn YouTube video about noisey pedals and a quick spray of lube on the cleat sorted the issue.
A lot of people may of already been aware of this solution but if you weren’t hopefully this will help you.
Some users (myself included) are experiencing dropout issues after replacing the Vector 3’s batteries. Garmin is apparently aware of the issue and suggests that it might be hardware related. Given that early adopters are only now beginning to replace the batteries, the number of comments already posted online, and the possibility of the issue becoming more commonplace following multiple battery swaps, Garmin could have a major issue on its hands. Kudos, however, to Garmin support for acknowledging the issue without hesitation and immediately offering to swap my pedals and pay the return shipping.
The Garmin representative said that they would send a return label with the new pedals but they did not. I will call and see what I can do. BTW, I’ve been getting dropouts on the right _replacement_ pedal. This may be due to my use of additional spacers (to balance the R/L Q-Factor) which has the impact of pulling the spindle end back into the crank and, perhaps, degrading the signal. I’ve gone back to one spacer (which I need to keep the spindle end from contacting the chain) and will see what happens on my next ride.
Would you see any problem in using these with pedal extensions? I called garmin and was basically told they didn’t know because it hadn’t been tested. Seems like if there were some added inaccuracies due to the extensions that it would be consistent to my setup and still useful in that I’d be comparing it against myself as a baseline.
Has anyone tested PR44 batteries? If Vector 3 could work with 1.4V, the stamina could be much higher. You need to be careful because this type of battery is used, for example, in watches where the peak load is not high.
Have the pedals a few weeks now and the one thing I didn’t like about them was the amount of float the standard red cleats have. I came from using shimano pedals with yellow cleats and these garmin cleats just have way too much float.
When I got these vector pedals I removed 3 sets of shimano pedals from all my bikes and sold them, so I bought a set of look keo blades to put on the bike I’ll be using on wahoo kickr so I don’t have to be swapping the vectors around 3 bikes. They arrived today and came with grey cleats so I tried the grey cleats with the vectors 3’s and they are so much better.
I will be ordering another set of grey keo cleats and bining the garmin cleats!
Same feelings. I love the solid feel from Shimano cleat and pedal. I am using 4.5 degree float Look cleat, it it’s still too much float. It affected the way I pedaling…
Matt need to try 0 degree float cleat next time…
I haven’t ridden with the new firmware yet but I have been getting HORRIBLE drops between my vector 3 and edge 520. All the rides were on a trainer (haven’t been able to go outside yet) but I even have a video where the power, cadence, etc all dropped for a full minute. It was typically happening after an hour of use or so. I will ride outside and see if I get the issue. Also the new firmware may have fixed this problem.
That’s pretty odd, haven’t heard that I don’t think.
Any chance your HR or trainer also dropped out? That’s a good way to tell if it’s more a transient interference thing, or a Vector 3 specific thing. Though I’ve certainly had WiFi/whatever interference in the past that only impacted one sensor at a time randomly.
Update: I just rode for over 1.5 hours and got over 32 minutes of 0W data (yes, I stopped a few times at lights but honestly pedaled the entire ride). When the power cuts out it can be for just a second or up to minutes. I only use garmin equipment (HR, 520, and vector 3). During the ride I was connected to my phone via bluetooth and tested some things including turning wifi off on my phone partway into the ride, next I turned bluetooth off on my phone, and next I turned bluetooth off on the garmin. In all instances, the drops were never fixed. During that time, the data that dropped were only from the pedals. Both my 520 and vector 3 are completely up to date and I calibrated my vector 3 twice before and during the ride. If there is interest I was able to take a few more videos, but obviously that’s difficult to see.
I would say one of the worst parts, besides not getting data for a significant portion of the ride, would be that when it “reconnects” I will get spikes in the data, whether it’s cadence or power or whatnot, it changes every time. This past ride I saw max cadence of 246 rpm which I can promise I cannot achieve. These spikes were typically 2-3 times more than what I was seeing immediately before. Some spikes though were in the thousands. I regularly see 2-4k watts (this past ride I saw 3627W). I had to turn off zero averaging to get any sensible data and its ridiculous that I would my avg power for the whole ride is 20% higher than my max 20 min power… which makes no sense. These spikes destroy the normalized power too as it is usually 25+% higher than my average power for the ride even though my intensity factor is usually very close to 1.
I honestly bought these because of cycling dynamics, but if garmin is releasing that to other companies, these things are honestly worthless.
Seems like battery issue to me. It might lose contact for some periods of time. Power and cadence spikes occur when power meter reboots after being powered on again.
Nick, any chance the black plastic caps on the end of the pedals are recessed in the crank arm?
I just helped a friend who was seeing drops from one of the two pedals. The pedal with the drop accidentally had two washers on it making the plastic bit with the antenna recessed into the crank a good bit. Removing the extra washer and having the antenna no longer shielded by the crank arm seems to have fixed things up.
This is becoming a recurring problem for a number of users on the Garmin Forum. link to forums.garmin.com
I’ve been fighting it for the last week. Same symptoms. It’s been blamed on GCM, head unit, and a number of other factors. However, it sounds like the battery housing, cover, whatever, design or manufacture is problematic. Some report backing off the battery cover 1/8th of a turn will help. Not very encouraging for product longevity in my opinion.
Just had the same issue. Sent back the pedals, spent a fortune on the return shipment. After the replacement I’m considering selling the pedals and moving over to quarq. Measurement is reliable, build quality is questionable.
For me, it is getting enough of Garmin.
I’ve been getting dropouts on the right pedal where I use additional spacers to balance the R/L Q-Factor. I’ve gone back to using only one spacer which I need to keep the spindle end from contacting the chain and will see what happens.
This may have done it. I replaced the batteries and so far the communication is good. I will try a few more rides before I say that it’s fixed. I have read similar issues on garmin forums and this was the thought and it still didnt work for everyone
Nick, have you been in contact with Garmin? Has the problem gotten worse with time. I’ve had my V3s for 2 weeks. They were perfect for the first two rides. Then, started getting “right pedal sensor missing over and over during a training race. That went on for a couple or three rides before the Edge 520 started reporting — Watts. Now, that’s all I get. “- – – Watts”.
I’m also using an Edge 520 with ANT+ connection. No Bluetooth at all. The Cadence also goes away occasionally with the pedal power indication. Garmin tells me that with the Vector3s, I do not need cadence sensors. That’s fine for outdoor riding, but Zwift needs cadence that comes from my Garmin cadence sensor.
I really don’t want to send these back for a refund. I absolutely loved the pedals for the first 2 or 3 rides. I’ve never had a power display and recording before . . . it was marvelous. But now, after spending $1,000.000 for this set of pedals, I am feeling very frustrated.
Just to clarify Ken – have you removed it from Garmin Connect Mobile?
Though, you should 100% be seeing it in Zwift assuming the firmware did properly update, which tells me something is amiss that doesn’t actually match what other folks are seeing. Perhaps the firmware update failed and only updated one side? You can double-check this on your head unit looking at the sensor details.
I have gotten in touch with Garmin and they are sending me a redesigned battery door. I will keep you all updated to see how it performs. I will probably ask them to send me the left side as well, but for now I will see how right side fix works.
I think I’ve removed it from the Garmin Connect Mobile. Not sure how to tell. Will work on that subject this evening when I go All-In to try to get the Vectors to work again. I’ve purchased some new batteries, even though last time I had a status on the Edge 520, it indicated that both pedals’ batteries were fine.
By the way, I cannot seem to log in to your blog. When I try, it doesn’t recognize my email address or username. I tried “lost password” and it cannot find my email address. So I tried registering (even though I’m pretty sure I’d already done that) and it says that my email address already exists.
First, I bought a new set of batteries for the right pedal. Measured the voltage of the existing pair at 2.75 volts. Then measured the two new batteries at about 1.5 each. Combined, they measured at 3.1 volts. I don’t think the original batteries were in need of replacement at only 1/4 volt lower than brand new ones.
The battery connection points are really dinky. But I could see witness marks in the dielectric grease on the contacts and on the positive side of the first battery in the hole. It appears that they contacts are indeed making contact.
Spun the cranks. A red LED in the left hand pedal glows briefly, and then it goes to three green flashes (indicating that it cannot find the right hand pedal). Every 10 seconds or so, 3 more green flashes. It doesn’t matter how much pedal/crank spinning I do, the right hand pedal isn’t waking up. In fact, I think it’s muerto! (dead). I’ve never seen any LED activity from the right-hand pedal. Granted, I never looked during the few days that the pedals were functioning.
So here I sit . . . . with a $1,000 set of power-indicating top-of-the-line pedals that don’t function. Really disappointing; especially after waiting so long for them and exhausting my toy budget to buy ’em. Oh well. I hope Garmin comes up with a fix soon. I fear that mine will need to be replaced since the right pedal shows no signs of life at all.
I have similar issues. I find that my cadence (and therefore power readings) are more stable/smooth when bluetooth on my phone is turned off (the phone is in direct vicinity of the my head unit). When bluetooth is turned on, there are occasional spikes while pedaling very steadily (indoors!). Sometimes there are also no cadence (nor power) readings at all for a few seconds, as described by other users.
At least for me, as soon as I turn bluetooth off on the phone, there seem to be no more spikes (nor 0 readings) and the numbers are less volatile.
For information, I updated my Vector to the latest version, I use a Garmin Edge 520 and my phone is a Galaxy A5 2017.
As far as I can tell so far, it feels like a bluetooth or interference problem…
I tried that on my next indoor ride. De-paired the Vector 3 and maintained bluetooth on on the phone. There were no drop-outs and no spikes. So that bug-thing might indeed be the reason. I’ll keep a close look during the next rides…
However, cadence feels sometimes too unstable (even with bluetooth off). For example while riding steadily around 90 rpm, it might suddenly jump to for example 94 then 87 for a couple of seconds. It’s not dramatic but it does feel weird. I don’t have the impression my Powertap P1 did that.
(You’ll find this post a second time further down the page, it came up on the wrong location, sorry for that).
Slight fluctuations at +/- 1-2RPM is pretty common even for super stable peddlers, but 3-4RPM (for a total spread of 7RPM) is a bit much. One thing to validate is if you’re also seeing power fluctuations there from a trainer, as that might cause variations that might have a ripple impact.
(No problem on duplicate, just took care of it. Thanks!)
I dd that for yesterday’s 3 hour training ride, DCR. And using the pair as a Vector 3 S, it worked wonderfully as a single-pedal power meter. I haven’t seen that result in weeks.
I’m amazed that it still impossible to get hold of theese until March at the moment here in Europe. Wonder if they are so incredibly backed up with orders, have a low production yield or if it is so complex that it’s hard to produce at high enough numbers
I’m in the US and ordered a set from a well-known online retailer in late December, and they have been on backorder ever since. The ETA has moved from mid-January, to early February, to late February, and now to early March.
No one seems to have them in stock currently. My new bike will be arriving in the upcoming weeks, and I’m currently riding indoors on a Computrainer, and I also have a number of wheelsets built with Powertap G3 hubs, so I can be a little patient. But I’d like to have some time to get used to the Garmin pedals indoors before the ice and snow goes away and I finally can get outside, as I’ve used Speedplay pedals for decades and I’m sure there will be a period of adjustment.
I’m thinking that if I can’t get the Vectors in the next few weeks, I may have to reconsider the Powertap P1 pedals or another option.
One of the Vector3 main selling points over its predecessors is that they no longer require a torque wrench for installation, although Garmin still recommends it.
If you read Ray’s review above you’ll find that he tested them at a range of tightening torques and apparently the consistency was rock solid.
I installed mine with a torque wrench, but that’s mainly because after blowing 80€ on it i’m itching to find excuses to use it.
Is the weight limit of any practical concern if your normal weight? And how does that limit transfer to watts? Will the reading be off after a few years of use?
Great write-up. I have a Garmin 1000 and am using both a cadence and speed sensor. If I go with the Vector3 pedals, would I need the separate cadence censor sensor if the pedals already provide that info? Or if I did keep the cadence sensor on my crank arm, would I then have two cadence readouts — one from cadence sensor and on from pedals. Thanks in advance.
Hi!
Thanks for nice work during many years!
I am considering buying Garmin Vector 3, mainly for indoor spinning use both at home and in my cycling club’s training studio. I have a silly question: Since this is a dual side system, would it be possible to set up one pedal (e.g. the left pedal) on one trainer/bike and the other one on another trainer/bike? I guess there must be some redundancy in any case, whenever the battery of one pedal dies before the other pedal’s battery. If it’s possible to use the pedals separately like this it will actually give me two power meters. Or: Is it too good to be true?
Best regards,
Inge H.
I’ve had the Vector 3 since late December. Initially everything went fine. They were easy to install and gave accurate readings. They provided a great deal of data, some worthy of contemplation and some not worth my attention. The pedals are a bit stiff on the spindle but it’s not a major issue (less than 1 watt power loss) and they seem well placed when I need to engage. The cleats appear to have more float than my equivalent Shimano cleats and I will experiment with alternatives. (Note, I’ve used Vector 3 only on actual road rides where I average over 200 miles per week.)
Problems, however, began with the first battery change. The change itself was easy having read other users comments and being sure to treat the battery compartment gingerly, ensure correct placement of the yellow o-ring, and not over tighten the end cap. (It’s not rocket science.) Unfortunately though, I began to experience dropouts almost immediately thereafter. The dropouts grew in frequency to the point where the data and the Vector 3’s were useless. I searched the Garmin forums and discovered that others were experiencing the same problem following a battery change and found that none of the suggested fixes (mineral oil on the batteries, tape, backoff 1/8 turn on end cap, etc.) were working consistently. Moreover, even if these fixes worked, the fact that users would have to preform them and that the problems were occurring so early in the product lifecycle suggested a serious problem. (If this occurs with the first battery change what about after the 7th or the 30th?) I contacted Garmin and the very helpful representative reviewed my data on Garmin Connect, confirmed the problem, _stated that it was a known issue_, and immediately exchanged the pedals.
The replacements arrived quickly and I promptly installed them and went for a test ride. Sadly, I experienced and have continued to experience frequent dropouts with the right pedal. I checked the torque and ensured that the spindle end was clearing the crank arm. (I went from using two spacers to one which is the minimum I require for chain clearance.) Everything with the installation is correct but again the product is unusable.
I’ll call Garmin today and see what its support team suggests. Unfortunately, I suspect that there is design flaw in the battery compartment and that the issue will become widespread as users begin replacing the batteries. Sadly, I cannot recommend the Vector 3 at this time.
A similar experience here. Left pedal not spinning freely after 2 months and lots of use. Garmin have offered an exchange when they have stock – end of month apparently. In the meantime right hand pedal has dropped out on a couple of occasions which I rectified by disconnecting and then reconnecting the pedals after removing and reinstalling the batteries. However the battery covers are a real issue to refit and tighten as they tend to cross thread and you need to proceed with extreme caution to avoid damaging the thread or shredding the yellow o ring.
I’ll reserve judgement until after the replacement set and Garmin have been very helpful but after reliability problems with the V1s first time round I’m yet to be convinced.
Thank you for your information. About the thread, I know the external cap of the batteries hosting is alluminium made. But what about the internal piece where the external cap is screwed? Is also metallic or is plastic?
I’ve seen lots of messages (various in this post) about problems with the pedals related to the battery change: dropouts, problems related to the cap thread, with the yellow washer, with the metallic contact piece, etc. Also apparently Garmin knows these issues. In my case I purchased on January 5th the Vectors, but they have not still arrived, because, as from powermeter24 have said, Garmin have not yet supplied (they receive some pedals apparently next week). But I’m affraid because I have no idea if Garmin has yet fised these issues.
Yeah, I wrote up a long comment somewhere, but it must have been on a different post.
In short, I don’t know the specifics or how widespread the problem is. I think some people are discovering it now because it’s about the first time they’ve needed to change batteries. It sounds like Garmin has changed the battery caps a bit, lately, and they are supplying different caps to folks that contact support with an issue.
I don’t think it’s a blanket ‘everyone is broke’ sort of scenario on batteries, as my battery change was simple and straight forward (I just did one a touch over a week ago). Took less than a minute, no issues since.
I do know from way back in the beta cycle that both I and the Vector team individually discovered slight differences in batteries. Meaning, not all batteries are exactly the same, and fit slightly differently. The pods are supposed to be designed to handle that, but there may be cases where they don’t properly – which perhaps the new battery caps deal with. It’s on my to-do list to reach out and see what the proper story there is (or perhaps Shawn from Garmin will comment here).
Garmin’s fulfillment process is incredibly quick. So if PM24 says they’re getting units to start going through backorders next week, that means those units are likely not yet even produced (or being produced today/tomorrow). They’d then be sent to distribution centers over the weekend, and from there at retailers within 1-2 days depending on if the retailer has paid for expedited shipping or not.
Keep in mind, that weekly process has been happening since October, every week (except for Chinese New Year, the previous two weeks).
As always with forums posts, I’d put them in context. If you count individual user names (and people that are actually having problems versus just being concerned about having a potential problems), and then do the math on how many units are shipping per week (my guess is 500-1000 units per week, maybe more), then you’re talking relatively tiny numbers. Not broken situation ideal, but context is always important.
I wouldn’t minimize the concerns we have. Garmin Engineering has a file open on the issue, but I’m a week plus with no reliable power data. If you haven’t had an issue yet, consider yourself fortunate. In my opinion, the problem is more than a hardware defect with batteries or the battery case. There are software problems related to GCM and the Vector version 3.0 firmware as well. For version 3, this is a major f* up by Garmin. I would not recommend this product at this time to anyone considering it.
It’s not minimizing, it’s simply putting it into perspective. It’s more or less just a numbers game.
There’s a thread on it on the Garmin Forums, I count 10 unique individuals on this thread. That’s it. Let’s say there’s a few more here and there that are also having issues. A few people having GCM connectivity related issues, but that’s sorta a different bucket.
And how many have shipped? Let’s assume 500 units a week since mid-October as a minimum till first week of Mid-Feb (my bet is that’s double that, but that’s OK). So that means 16 weeks give or take, or roughly 8,000 units in the wild. So 10 in 8,000. To me, it’s all mostly a numbers game.
As I noted above, obviously, Garmin thinks there’s something to it, given they’ve redesigned the battery caps. But I don’t think it’s world-ending. Hopefully, Garmin can shed some light on it.
Time will tell how great a problem or combination of problems this is but let’s keep in mind that only a small segment of users have had to replaced their batteries to date and only a very small percentage of those experiencing problems will post here or in one of the Garmin forums. The fact that one has to be very careful when replacing the batteries so as not to over-tighten the cap, strip it, or damage the yellow o-ring does not bode well for long term durability. Looking at 8-10 battery changes per year x 2 x the number of users and that represents a real issue for Garmin. In my case, I experienced complete dropouts after the first battery change. Garmin immediately replaced those pedals but the right replacement pedal experienced dropouts from its very first use. (No battery change required.) I worked with Garmin support today to document the problem, review the software on my pedals, iPhone, and Edge, pull the batteries so the units could reset, reinstall the batteries, hand tighten the caps, recalibrate the pedals, and take the bike for a test ride. Still right side dropouts. Garmin downloaded the additional data, escalated the issue, and says that it will get back to me within 24 hours. In the meantime, the pedals are not only worthless as a power meter but are turning out invalid data that I’ll have to clean-up less it alters my fitness metrics.
Hi Ray,
That’s great that you’ve put it in context, but eventually, the no. of problematic customers is increasing daily on the forum. Everyone is really-really frustrated. Mine worked just fine in Dec- Jan. Then the battery drain issue came, after this, the battery door on the left pedal and finally the whole system went down 🙁 Not to talk about the issues with fw 3.00, which is causing drops and peaks.
A better metric would be how many people reached out to garmin, the forum is a weak metric I think. I was really happy with mine, they were accurate, stable, but after 2 months they just gave up.
We’d really appreciate a communication from Garmin if they admin the issue if they’re investigating it and will figure out something for the existing customers.
In my case it’s maybe too late anyways…I’m considering selling the brand new ones and never go back to the garmin world 🙁
As Ray states above, the battery change is a fairly simple process and should not cause any problems. We are actively reviewing reports of battery door issues and researching returned products. We encourage anyone who is having issues reach out to our support team for us to investigate their concerns. We appreciate the continued excitement and discussion about Vector 3.
Sure, but you have quite a few problems being reported on multiple forums. You shouldn’t say the process is easy when you’ve got people doing the following things under advice from Garmin support:
– needing to pry up the battery terminal with pinky
– needing to tape the batteries with electrical tape to avoid rattling
– needing to put baby oil on the battery surfaces to bond them
– need to replace some sort of transparent contact tape on the inside
– needing to backoff the caps 1/4 turn
I’m super happy to see Garmin is being responsive, but I would not go so far as to say the procedure is “fairly easy”. Its fairly easy if none of the above things go wrong.
Hi Shawn,
Yes I agree it should be simple, but not it is not 🙁
Garmin has one of the best support teams I’ve ever seen, which is awesome and really enjoyed the discussions, honestly. However, there are a few of us who has to send back the 2nd set of the pedals and that’s usually a whole lot of money if you have to send it to a different country. In my case, the first set’s shipping cost was 5% of the total pedal cost. All the hassle with the pedal + sending them back and hoping for a better one, simply just incovenient and expensive and btw unacceptable from a user standpoint.
Dear @Shawn, thank you for your answer. I would like to ask you some questions related to the pedals issues exposed in this and other forums, and the steps taken by Garmin about.
You said that Garmin is reviewing the reports about the battery door issues, but has yet any solution? Are the pedals sent this weeks any upgrade (battery door, metallic contact piece, washer) or are the same as the December version?
@Frank has said in post #355 that he sent his pedals to Garmin and he has paid the shipping costs, which were about 50 €. Are the shiping costs not covered by warranty?
Do you know what the OEM batteries are that the Vector’s ship with? I remember reading somewhere that they may be manufactured by Varta but I may be wrong. Which battery manufacturer did you replace yours with? I have used Duracell LR44’s and they seem good.
Just thinking that if like-with-like are replaced, it may help.
(1) Let me second the kudos to Garmin support. Although they have not yet solved the issues they are certainly being responsive and reasonable. (2) As to the batteries, I use Energizer LR44’s. (3) I am unaware of any hardware changes having been made to the Vector 3 since its release. If someone knows differently I would appreciate the details. (4) The battery change is not complex but one does have to be careful not to over tighten or strip the threads of the cap and to ensure that the yellow o-ring is properly placed and undamaged. I understand that there is also a clear tape strip and conducting pins that can be easily damaged but did not notice these components when I changed the batteries. Regardless whether these factors are related to the dropout issues, I think that the design of the battery compartment and its components lacks durability and might cause long-term headaches. (5) As to the dropouts on my right pedal, bear in mind that that pedal is part of a replacement pair that I received from Garmin after my first set failed following a battery change. Unlike the original pedals, the new pedal experienced dropouts without my ever having made a battery change, Inexplicably however, after a brief initial dropout my right pedal appears to have worked solidly yesterday over a 50-mile ride. No changes were made to any of the factors since the preceding day when I was getting dropouts every minute or two. I suppose that I should be happy about this spontaneous resolution but gremlins bother me more than understood problems. I need to trust my components and not be waiting for something to go wrong. In any event, I’m waiting to hear back from support regarding this new information.
I paid it but it was far less for me since it was entirely domestic. I imagine that I could seek reimbursement but it is not worth my time. If I have to return the second pair I will certainly resolve that issue upfront.
Hey, i AM interesten in the Garmin vector 3. Bud Will this work on me edge 800? And if yes, can i see the left and the richt power on this edge?
Thanks !
Hi Johan, yes it will work. L-R option is there, cycling dynamics is the only thing that you won’t see on the 800.
If you interested in them more in-depth reach out to me in private. godoferenc at gmail dot com
I am a Garmin Vector 3 user since almost a month now. I have been lucky enough to spot a small batch of Garmins arriving at one online store here in Germany(bike-components) and have ordered a pair (imemdiatelly after they went out of stock so lucky me I guess :)).
So far everything good, I have done about 5-6 rides (due to bad weather here in south Germany) and the power metrics seem very consistent. Moreover I have no dropouts. I didn´t update the firmware yet (I am I gues of v2.3…) as I read many of the users have reported problems after the update. I am using the Garmin V3 with the Wahoo Bolt unit. But I am getting really concerned reading more and more posts of people which have to change the batteries, and after that the pedals just give up completely. I haven´t changed mine as I have done probably around 14 hours of riding. But what will happen when I need to change them? I am an engineer and I do not fear the process itself, moreover I am quite handy and skillfull with hands, but it seems that the procedure is way too sensible, with minimal tolerance accepted, and seems like even if you do it by the book, there is a great chance that things will go wrong. And the proposed solutions I read of taping the battery compartment, baby oil between the batteries, etc…..this is just not a robust product and solution, and excuse me if I say but this is not an engineering solution expected from a product that costs 1000€. I am only hoping that as I got mines in late January-early February, they may be from one of the latest production batch, where Garmin has already addressed the battery cap/replacement issue. I will keep you updated once I need to replace the batteries.
@Frank: And regarding the need to send them back, in such cases where Garmin admits there is a problem with that specific set of pedals, they should include the shipping costs, it seems only natural that someone like Garmin should do that for their customers covering the shipping expenses, and not make them pay 5% (around 50€).
@Garmin: please consider that very serriously!!!
@DCRainmaker, I agree with other users, the forum here is not relevant enough to quantify that out of 8000 units only 10 have been reported (one needs to consider first, out of the 8000 how many have actually needed to replace the batteries? I for one, am one of those who didn´t have to do this process so far…)
Bottom line, I am somehow worried,but I hope though that it is all in vein. I will post an update once I need to replace the batteries.
Cheers guys, and hope to have good news to report in future!!!
I understand that the battery change may cause problems or may fix them. I am lucky enough to have seen my drops stop after my battery change. My biggest concern is that these battery doors seem to be WAY too delicate. I don’t know about the rest of this community but I race pretty regularly and if you have any kind of accident, the most likely thing that will touch the pavement will be the edge of the pedals. I am seriously concerned that a moment of scraping will break the battery door and render the pedals useless. Does anyone else have my fears? This product almost definitely WILL BREAK if and when you have an accident/crash.
@DCRainmaker I would love to hear your opinion on this. This type of issue is pretty negligible to most other PMs though other pedals do have similar potential. I am just so worried that the vectors can’t handle the slightest scrape.
What’s funny to me about this whole battery thing is I actually changed my batteries almost every other ride all summer on earlier prototype units (there was a battery short problem in some prototype units, which was resolved by late summer).
I changed them on the side of the road, in small shops, outside an RV, in the Cave, everywhere. Just never had any issues. I also undid the batteries multiple times on the final production units this past fall for photos and videos, also no problems.
Not saying people aren’t having some sort of issue – but I think it’s probably overblown.
As for scrapping the battery pods, both the P1 and Vector 3 do have their battery doors in the same spot. I don’t actually think the battery door would be your biggest issue in a clipping crash. I suspect other concerns around accuracy would be a bigger issue (damage). But even then, it really hasn’t been the issue a lot of people thought it would be 5 years ago when Vector/etc were first announced.
As for slight scrapes? My bike falls over constantly taking photos (seriously, look at some of my recent photos to see how scraped up my Vector 3 pedals are). No issues.
RE: Shipping/etc (from above)
I do agree that companies should cover shipping costs to/from consumers when the product/issue is caused by the company. When it’s caused by the user, then the user should cover it. In this case, I presume it’s a company-driven issue, thus, they should cover it. Though, I’m not entirely sure how one spends 50EUR on shipping unless it’s overnight. Within Europe I presume you’re sending to Garmin UK’s support center, though maybe Germany handles them internally.
Speaking of which, Garmin actually has a support policy that allows you to do what’s called a ‘cross-ship’, which means that you provide a credit card and they ship you a new device straight away. Then you’re given the RMA number and as long as you ship back your device within a set period (30 days the last time I did it), then your card isn’t charged. You can even request fast shipping. Perhaps there’s not enough inventory for Vector 3 at this time, but typically Garmin keeps inventory on the site for support.
RE: George
I guess it’s tough because in some ways your post sorta illustrates my point. At present your pedals are working just fine and dandy. But then people might come along and skim and think that you’re having a battery problem given the length of the post, when in reality your talking about the potential to have a problem that you read about. But not actually having it. It ends up being somewhat of a feeding frenzy over actual people exhibiting the problem.
Thanks for your extended feedback on mine and on some other replies.
But I think I was quite clear when I said that I DO NOT HAVE PROBLEMS/ISSUES with the Garmins, I am just worried and it seems that I am not the only one here. The length of my reply was so, because I wanted to address several topics (such as availability, battery compartment/battery replacement issues/shipping costs which the consumer needs to address apparently,etc…).
Anway, let’s keep fingers crossed and hope that what was so far reported as faulty, is indeed as you suggested just a infinitesimally small fraction (10/8000) and that this will not increase as more people start changing batteries.
Me I am 100% satisfied with the Garmins so far, no dropouts, good consistency of the power data, battery life seems to be at its max(even though my rides ave been done in 0ºC averages), so I only hope for the best.
@Ray:
Shipping: It was actually 43 Euros, and it is simple. Budapest, Hungary to Southampton, UK shipping with Hungarian Post for 2-4 business days with insurance for the half of the price of the vector.
If I went for 5-7 days that would’ve been 33. And since I wanted to arrive there fast + secure I opted for the more expensive one, but the problem is not with the price, it’s with the policy.
Or it’s possible that you’ve been very lucky. I am now on my second set pedals and have experienced dropout, power spike, standing vs. seated, R/L balance, and other issues from first use. In other words, before any battery change. For the time being I am willing to work with Garmin and have given them access to my files and tried several suggested fixes, none of which have worked. I appreciate Garmin Support’s responsiveness, want the company’s product to be successful, and ensure that other purchasers have a great experience. Hopefully, a resolution will be forthcoming soon.
@DCRainmaker So I lightly clipped the pedal yesterday in a race on a turn and the pedal completely stopped working today. Right pedal will pair to the other but after pairing, it does not report any power data and I will keep getting errors during calibration basically stating that the pedal is not working. Going to get rid of them now.
I ordered the Vector 3’s in early January and it looks like they will be arriving sometime next week. After reading some of the recent posts, my excitement over the new purchase is moving towards trepidation. Is there any way to know whether the product I receive has the new battery cover? Thank you.
Thanks a lot for your website and video, i’m a french cyclist from britany, i loved your review, video (And shane miller’s too !) Thanks to improve my english and spend my money. After reading yours articles, I want to buy The power meter Vector 3 and the Gps unit Wahoo Bolt element. I’am afraid to loose some informations “cycling metrics’ and others. For you and your readers is it a clever choice or i should take the garmin 520. Thanks a lot. Hope to see you one day on the beautiful road or beach here in Britany (Bretagne)
Another dynamite review – thank you DC for putting in all the work! So I’m contemplating the Vector 3 pedals, but it appears they don’t work or they don’t work well with elliptical chain rings (like my Rotor QXL). Just how much do the elliptical chain rings effect the readings? A little? A lot? I ask bec I’m considering the Garmin Edge 1030 and would like to take advantage of all the technology.Garmin has to offer. But, this development throws a wrench into my plans.
Correct, and actually, most power meters don’t support oval rings. Only a handful do (PowerTap hub, PowerTap P1, ROTOR units and questionably Power2Max).
They’ve been shipping since the second week of October. They mostly got caught up around Christmas, but since then things went downhill with the supply vs demand ratio. It doesn’t sound like they’ll recover from a production standpoint till at least April.
They are still shipping each week though. In a nutshell if you’re looking to order a pair it’s best to get a an order in with a retailer (since Garmin prioritizes that over Garmin.com), and then wait till they ship. Garmin generally focuses on shipping to retailers with active backorder queues.
Hi, I bought a dual sided Vector 3 and installed the pedals this week. I use an Edge 500. It paired with the Vector 3 straight away so I did two rides indoors with them I then analysed my rides and discovered that my L/R balance was 100%L therefore the Right pedal isn’t recording anything. I noticed during my second ride that the right pedal lights were flashing Green/Red alternating throughout the ride. I tried using the Android app to connect to the pedals for more information but when I did the connection would not go through and then the LEDs on BOTH pedals would flash Green/Red alternating. I haven’t touched the batteries and calibrated before both rides though I did get an error when calibrating on the first ride, I think it was error 514? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the deep review. I ordered from CT mine (With the DCR´s VIP membership!) . They should be shipping hopefully sometime this week. I’m a little bit scared about possible failures since I ordered on CT USA from Spain… lets get fingers crossed.
I’ll pair them with my Edge 820. I feel that this computer is quite slow in general, not really “responsive” (An really slow if you are following a map (It was a nightmare in the last Powerade nonstop Madrid-Lisboa),
Do you see real advantage upgrading to the 1030 from a computing speed point of view, and why not, from a feature improvement as well?. As far as I read there’s not a ton of new features in de 1030 over the 820, but just wanted to know your opinion about it. The size of the 1030 does not thrills me, but if is worth it, I may think about it. Other point would be waiting and hold the 820 until de launch of the 830… If the improve the speed would be worth it. Anyway, don’t think they’ll launch an Edge 830 until next year or so…
I have my Vector 3 now for 11 weeks.
2 things…
The LR44(duracell) batteries are only lasting 30-35 hours, not 120+.
The battery cover is a pain in the neck. Though im being very careful and never over tightening them, the 4 flimsy O rings have already disintegrated, its very awkward to get the batteries out, and the battery cover now turns in the pedal housing before even getting snug.
Here is an update to the issues with my Vector 3 pedals. The first pair worked fine until I replaced the batteries after approximately six weeks of use. Then I started getting dropouts that grew more frequent and longer until the units were largely nonfunctional. Garmin confirmed the issue and swapped the pedals for a replacement set. The second set suffered right pedal dropouts immediately. (Before any battery change.) Garmin again confirmed the problem and had me reset the pedals by uninstalling/reinstalling the batteries on both sides. Although the dropouts became less frequent there were still a number of anomalies including right and left dropouts, power spikes, and miscalculation of standing/seated times. Garmin reviewed my daily workouts and had me send photographs of the high pedal interior and exterior battery cover threads. According to Garmin support, a preproduction issue was identified regarding problems with the battery cover threads that the company thought it had solved. Unfortunately, they are seeing this same problem in some of the pedals suffering right side dropouts. Garmin will now be sending my a third set of pedals that I have been assured will be inspected for any battery cover thread issues before shipping. Here’s hoping the third time is a charm.
Similar problem here. Right pedal drop outs preceded the first battery change, following the battery change I’ve had some very erratic readings and right pedal connection loss. From day one (late December) the left pedal has not spun freely. Garmin offered a replacement for the stiff spindle before the drop outs started occurring but now do not have stock until 3rd April. They have been nothing but professional in my dealings with them however following a warranty refund with the original Vector S and now these issues my confidence is evaporating and surely you need to believe the data a power meter is giving you. This is also the critical period for me for power meter based training. Tempted to go back to the retailer for a refund on exchange for Quarq or similar. I have commented on the spindle issue here before so this is an update rather than a new user with concerns/issues.
Garmin states that it will now send me replacement battery doors and PCB boards rather than a third set of pedals. Certainly a less costly and time consuming fix if it works.
I wanted these pedals really bad but then I started reading the Garmin forums and seeing people complaining about the battery life, drop outs and power numbers really make me thing if this product is even ready to hit the market (I mean it’s probably not because the release date is being pushed back every few days – I know you can get single units somewhere, but in general it’s very hard to find).
I’m not sure what’s the call in this situation – whether I wait for Garmin to sort things out (will they?) or do I just get Favero Assioma Duo.
I’m in the same boat. Have been thinking about the Vectors for a few months and been closely monitoring the reviews and issues here.
I had originally planned to buy the Vectors vs the Assiomas. Because of the better BLE compatibility with Strava and Zwift.
My reasons not to buy the Vectors now are:
1. I own a Wahoo Bolt now, which has Ant+ (no more need for an iphone and a BLE connection)
2. troubling issues (drop outs, batteries) with the Vectors
3. the Vectors are still not available in Germany
I am leaning towards the Assiomas. They have a battery pack (which suddenly sounds very easy and convenient), they are cheaper and available. I like the looks of the Vectors better but thats only a minor point for me.
Couple hundred miles on mine so far and no issues.
People with no issues tend to keep quiet. Its the ones with issues that make noise on every website out there.
I certainly wish him luck. It’s totally frustrating to have gotten addicted to having such good data and goals; to have completely lost the ability. I’m still going through withdrawals. And mine only worked properly for a little over 300 miles (mostly indoors because of lousy weather).
So when users are reporting backing off the cap a quarter turn, they are actually fixing an alignment issue with the positive contact prong with the positive contact pads on the PCB? So Over/under tightening by even a small amount will cause them not to be aligned? Or is there some mechanical limits on the threads that prevent this from happening?
Seeing this FAQ, now I’m really glad that I’ve sold my Vector 3 after replacement. Honestly…I had fewer issues with Vector 2S, considering all the torque, pod things.
If the users need 1 page long FAQ about a battery replacement the product is so to say crap.
Shawn, I appreciate this helpful response but the added information only highlights my concerns. How is such a fragile mechanism, one that is already suffering issues, going to withstand years of hard riding and scores of battery changes? Need I really have a magnifying glass, toothpicks, and mineral oil on hand for every battery change? Will this mechanism ever be made idiot proof and durable?
Changing the battery doors without damaging them shouldn’t be a concern to anyone that takes care. They’re not that fragile. If you don’t take care to not cross-thread them and don’t torque down beyond “good and snug”, replacement of the batteries should be easy and fool proof.
I worry more about clipping a pedal or falling while riding where the battery doors will be the second or third thing to hit the tarmac (after hips and shoulders).
My Vectors aren’t working, with “Right Pedal Sensor Missing”; so I’ve had the batteries out of both several times to try to diagnose. So far, no luck; but they’re sending a new pair just as soon as they can get some in their replacement stock.
Perhaps take it to a watchmaker and make ask them to change the battery, they are used to work with tiny fragile things. Some just have thick fingers or clumsy hands.
I’d like to say something good about the Vector3 pedals.
They’re the easiest and quickest pedals to clip into than any pedal I’ve used in the past 12 years.
NOW, that may be due to the fact that I’ve been using Dura Ace pedals for the past 12 years’ and that I’ve missed clipping in several times and had to bridge up to the racing pack several times. In one race, I missed it three times in a row while the race left me at the line with my left pedal invisibly spinning.
Yes, bridging up at light speed to a crit pack that was out of sight probably made me stronger; but it wasn’t a fun way to start a race. I could see my entry fee evaporating with the blur of the spinning pedal, not once but 3 times!. The race went around the corner and was out of sight before I finally regained my composure (in front of the spectators, by the way), clipped in, and began my chase. How embarrassing! So much adrenaline ws in my blood that I flew by at least a half dozen riders that were dropped or in the process of getting dropped on my way to rejoin the pack. Whew. This was one of my most memorable crits. . .. all because of my inability to clip in first time and the chase back into the pack that surprised everyone (including me)
With these Vector 3 pedals, I have never missed a clip-in. Without looking, the pedal always seems to be in position and my cleat has inserted and locked every time. I should have changed away from Dura Ace pedals to this style long ago.
Since I haven’t heard a peep out of the right pedal in a couple of weeks, I wonder if I can use the pedals at a set of Vector 3S pedals until Garmin fixes whatever is wrong with them?
Thank you, DC.
Yes, actually I have. Several chat sessions and finally I broke down and called on the phone. They were very customer-friendly and Kate seemed genuinely interested in helping me.
They’ve analyzed my Garmin Connect data and told me that I’m experiencing the same issue(s) on which their engineers are working.
and just Saturday, I got an email letting me know that a new pair of battery holders are coming and for me to try them and report back.
This shall henceforth be known as The Great Coin Cell Confusion of 2018:
In you review, Ray, you mentioned basically: Go fo LR44. Now, the birdy’s Duracell 357 is an SR44. To confuse things even more, Garmin appears to be recommending Energizer SR44 (link to forums.garmin.com).
Ray, help! If you happen to have a coffee with the good people from Garmin could you ask them to clarify things? I am happy to run my own test but am a bit nervous regarding the battery change – this appears to be a possible source for trouble, albeit not very frequently from your experiences.
The birdy I’m hearing is what support is telling folks right now. I suspect it’s mostly about size right now, and less of a concern about other factors that led to the LR vs SR recommendation. Meaning, I suspect that the Duracell 357 is probably a ‘known good’ from a manufacturing standpoint.
Though, I’ve gotta believe the battery pod/cap tweaks that a few users have had would probably account for more variation in battery production than the current ones.
I circled back about two weeks ago with them for lots of details, which I sprinkled in comments and such here. In general though, they’re saying that the number of impacted people is very small (at least those that have opened up tickets/cases/Garmin Forum posts), relative to the number of units shipped. Which is roughly the same conclusion I’ve come to with different data (obviously, their data is better than my data on this topic).
At the same time they do seem very aware that it’s a problem and are working on solutions (as seen by users getting new caps) to address it. They did note that they *really do want to hear* from folks experiencing issues, mostly because they want to ensure their tweak covers any outliers.
Finally, I don’t see the pods as fragile as all, and honestly still don’t understand that concern. I see them as not covering all their bases on a battery standpoint (meaning, the variances in models people find in stores), which has more or less led to everything you see here.
Note, it sounds like the GCM issues are a separate bucket – which I kinda agree with. That sounds more GCM-specific than Vector 3-specific. Which isn’t so much a case of shifting blame, but just being a technical person and knowing where that issue lies.
Again, I’ll circle back to them, since it’s been about two weeks.
>> I don’t see the pods as fragile as all, and honestly still don’t understand that concern.
Hi DCR! I’m concerned about a product that I pay £850 for (minus your CT code – thanks!) where what should be a simple battery change operation requires a lengthy FAQ post (link to support.garmin.com), with all manner of potential pitfalls such as dislodging little pieces of insulating tape, stripping threads from slight over-tightening etc, needing to use baby oil…
None of this should be a concern on a premium priced product, and it’s disappointing that Garmin did not sort these issues before releasing to market. Seems like a similar strategy to how they release their firmware upgrades which, in my experience with numerous Garmin fitness products, exhibits lax or no QA checking.
I’ve not yet had to change my batteries, and frankly am dreading having to do so. My 60 day CT returns window closes on 20th March.
I think in this case Garmin is kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t. To me, the FAQ seems like more a way to try and consolidate boatloads of forum posts (here and on their on forums) into a single cohesive place to answer questions (thus – damned if you do).
As they note directly in that, they’re working on a fix. But that FAQ is a pretty good spot to consolidate tips on how to deal with ‘the now’ for those that get in a pickle.
In the same sense, as I stated elsewhere, I think now I’m just seeing a lot of posts about people concerned about said pickle, but not actually being in a pickle. Meaning, it’s sorta the swirling effect of ‘What ifs’, or ‘I might have this issue’, when in reality, the vast majority of people (my guess is 95%+) aren’t having said issue.
For fun, if you’re concerned about the return period – you can simply change your batteries now. No harm in throwing a few new ones in there, my guess is it’ll be a non-event.
Ray, I appreciate your expertise, understand your logic, and certainly hope that you are correct. But MY numbers suggest a different story. When my first set of pedals failed (R/L dropouts following battery charge) that was a one-off. When the second set had problems (occasional R side dropouts and intermittent anomalous data) out of the box that was a red flag. Then when the repair kit (battery door and PCB) for the second set made matters worse (extended R side dropouts and anomalous data) that was a revelation. What are the odds of this presuming that, for example, only 1 in 500 pedals are “bad”? Which is more likely, that I am the Garmin lottery winner or that the problems are fairly endemic? Less there be any doubt, Garmin support has access to my data files and has confirmed the issues. They have seen the returned parts and the photographs they requested that I take. We’ve communicated regularly by phone and email. I’ve even been on the phone with them while together we’ve tried troubleshooting not just the pedals directly but the Edge, the phone, the app, and the environment. I am continuing to work with Garmin but until the company actually provides me with a solution I will stick with my conclusion.
I have had my 3S for a couple of months now, done around 1200 miles on them mainly in awful weather. I am happy with how they have performed. The battery changes have been fine but you do have to be careful. I had a drop out on one ride and Garmin support advised me on what to do fix it and it is now sorted. I had some drop out issues on an indoor trainer but that was due to my set up and 2.4GHZ wifi interference.
With the abuse I have thrown at them in the conditions I have ridden, I have been impressed with how they have held up.
The data has been really solid and reliable and I am fitter as a result. I have really enjoyed using them and when I bought them I expected there to be issues from real world users, being such a new product.
I guess only Garmin know how many people are impacted with issues compared to units sold but I hope these things can be ironed out for those that are having the problems.
So many negative comments have been piled on the Vector 3 pedals that I’ve held back so far, but I have just wasted another three hours on them. I’ve had it.
My Vector 3’s have suffered from most of the troubles reported here. I first installed them at the end of November 2017. The factory provided batteries lasted for less than 40 hours. It has always taken a long time and multiple tries to get the pedals to connect to any of my devices: fenix 5, Edge 510, HTC U11 Android phone, iphone 6s plus. Only the Edge 510 was sometimes quick to connect. Most rides indoor and outdoor have been plagued by frequent dropouts that are long enough to invalidate the data. The right pedal would often disconnect. GCM on Android crashed every time I tried to update to the 3.00 firmware. GCM on ios would always tell me that 2.30 is the latest version.
None of this seems to have anything to do with the integrity of the battery compartment cover in my case. It looks perfectly happy even under magnification, every time. The contact points inside the pedal show just a bit of wear from the two positive contacts at the edge of the battery retainer. The pedals have not reported any errors. The LED’s blink the way they should.
Then finally today with the latest version of GCM on Android the 3.00 firmware actually downloaded to the pedals. The download completed message showed up and a notice that the pedals would disconnect to complete the update. That was the last I ever heard from the pedals. I can finally send them back. I removed them and re-installed them. I removed them in the software, unpaired them, tried to pair them again, etc. … all in vain. All of this after waiting for about 60 minutes for a sign of life from the pedals after the disconnect message. Apparently, they are doorstops now. They sometimes still blink for entertainment.
The following are my concerns that I want to share with anyone considering to buy the Garmin Vector 3 pedals: (1) You will be advised to use only channels 1 or 6 on any 2.4GHz WiFi device near your indoor trainer in order to avoid interference. I’m surprised that the FCC put its stamp of approval on a device that will not work reliably around other 2.4GHz devices. (2) Garmin might continue to ship unreliable software releases, GCM on Android comes to mind. (3) Garmin’s fenix 5 sapphire edition appears to be a terrible match for the Vector 3 pedals. I’ve gone on rides where my Edge 510 recorded OK while the fenix 5 had huge problems with drops. (4) Battery life will almost certainly be much shorter than Garmin claims. (5) You might not get valid power data from the pedals for all the reasons mentioned above. (6) You might waste as much time trying to baby your Vector 3 pedals as I have and all for very little in return.
I’m really beginning to consider canceling my order on the garmin pedals and get Favero Assioma instead. Because of what I’ve read about the fragile battery container, having to apply oil each battery change and batteries not lasting as long as promised. And also where the battery container is placed may be more exposed to damage. The favero solution just seem better when it comes to this. Also the interference problems with WiFi.
I’ve looked at the comment section on Favero Assioma here on DCRM website and there are very few complaints. AND the Favero pedals has been out longer.
The only thing holding me from not switching is more data on garmin and perhaps better integration with the garmin eco system.
I don’t even know for certain how long I must wait to get the garmin pedals and the price on favero is better.
As a vector 3 owner I’m considering to claim my money back.
I didn’t buy a 40 hours battery life product,
I don’t want to use a baby oil when replacing the batteries,
I won’t tolerate a drop outs and power spikes.
I was in the same point choosing Vector / Assioma – looks like I’ve got the wrong choice.
In my eyes the V3 offering looked a little to good to be true.. Now I’m actually pleased my initial ordering of them at CT Europe fell into the “memory hole”, and were cancelled by them. Waiting months then for Wiggle to get them in stock, I have certainly become more skewed to going the Quark route. Perhaps stacking two coin cell batteries on top of each other in something that’s subjected to both vibrations and sometimes rapid shifts in temperature (like storing your bike indoors, and then going for rides in winter climates), were just a bad idea. Never seen this done in any other electronics before.. Cycling dynamics is cool and all. But in the end, it’s just data that no one as of yet has figured out any way of making good use of. It is also nice to be able to use whatever pedal/cleat combination I like and still have power readings. Sometimes I prefer using SPD on my road bike, for the sole reason of being able to walk in MTB/touring shoes.
I replaced the right pedal PCB board and battery door with the replacements provided by Garmin. On the first ride everything appeared normal on my Edge but there were some possible anomalies in the data that I’ll have to review with support. These include very brief periods of 0% power from the right pedal and standing periods that I can’t recall from my ride. Also, unlike simply replacing the batteries, removing and replacing the PCB board _is_ delicate; the two bolts holing the board in place are extremely small and the board itself must be correctly aligned. It’s a paradigm shift of working on bike components to working on electronic components. This is significant since removal of the PCB board is necessary to service the pedal bearings and thus is a process that most users will encounter down the road. Despite my best efforts and utmost caution I might have stripped one of the bolts. Never mind that the bolt was set properly, turned normally, and tightened with fewer rotations than I required to remove it. This reinforces my primary concern regarding what will happen with these delicate components overtime as they wear and are subjected to high stresses, changing temperatures, indirect ground contact, and repeated removals and reinstalls as users replace batteries, service bearings and spindles, etc.
Robert, I am about to do the PCB change. The issues you are experiencing on your first ride seem to be identical to the issues before the switch. Any additional rides? This seems terrible.
Second ride since replacing the PCB and battery door. Forty miles. A complete bust for the Vectors. Frequent, long dropouts of the right pedal beginning at around three miles and concentrated in the first 25 miles. Inaccurate standing time. Constant notices of right power sensor loss which I finally stopped selecting. One low battery notice which is contrary to the sensor information and highly unlikely as the pedals are nearly new.
I have tried to work with Garmin on this issue. I have been supportive of the company and laudatory of its customer support. However, this is literally strike three–first set of pedals failed, right pedal of replacement set failed, and now the PCB and battery door replacement failed. The odds against this happening with an isolated problem are so remote as to be nearly impossible. I cannot recommend the Vectors, I will be returning my Vectors. I think Garmin should remove the Vectors from the market until it corrects the problems.
That is very discouraging. VERY!
Garmin sent a new set of battery “doors” to me, except that somewhere the wires got crossed and they sent a couple of pairs of O-rings. I contacted them and they’re going to try again, this time with the doors. From your email, I’m not expecting any joy.
For full refund, to whom to send the pedals? Garmin? or the dealer? I’m not giving up yet, but will soon if they can’t resolve it. BikeTiresDirect.com has a 60-day money back guarantee. I’m about 30 days into it.
I am outside the return window with my retailer but have a good relationship there and think that we could find a solution. As some point though, Garmin bears responsibility if it cannot fix or replace its product with a working unit. In my case, they’ve now had two unsuccessful opportunities to do so. I’m curious to know what they’ll suggest next but cannot have my performance and training data become further skewed by the Vector’s.
After 4 weeks of dead and useless Vector 3s, I received the Battery Door & Holder kit for both pedals and attempted to install today. The flimsy insulating tape on both holders fell off when installing new batteries. This is a cheap design and/or a manufacturing failure. 4th call to Garmin Support seeking to escalate today. I really want these to work but I’m reaching the end of my patience.
My experience hasn’t been as bad as yours but nevertheless my confidence in them is sufficiently undermined for me to have returned them to the retailer. An £850 product should work, period. I can’t get a new pair as there is no stock at the moment and I’m not convinced I wouldn’t experience the same issues again in the future and at a critical point in the training calendar. I now have to decide whether to save some money and go for a single sided option such as Stages or get a Quarq Dzero. At least while the Vectors worked I could see I have a near 50/50 L/R balance most of the time so in theory single sided is good enough.
I’d be interested in any thoughts on the this latter point.
I decided to cancel the order due the multiple problems users are experiencing. And (take this as a reprimand for Garmin) warranty is not global. Something incomprehensible for a company that claim as a global company. I was buying in the US from Spain, and with the perspective that I will have to use the warranty almost for sure, this won’t work.
I’ll wait for a few weeks and see if Garmin fixes the issues, and if not I’ll go for the faveros.
Really? I guess this must be new. I had trouble in the past with a Fenix 3 bought in Australia and the Spanish Garmin branch refused to repair it because the unit wasn’t bought in the UE (It was 6-7 months old).
However, I will check with Clevertraining.
You’d be the first I’ve heard of Garmin refusing a warranty claim when purchased from outside the region. Not saying it can’t happen with a random customer service agent, but I’ve yet to hear anyone in all the years doing this note an issue.
My guess is that on paper policy it’s probably not permitted, but there’s probably also a policy that says not to enforce it unless they believe there’s some sort of fraud/etc going on.
Maybe.. unfortunately, in Spain we don’t “Stand out” for our customer services quality in general…
In this case, the Fenix was bough, as far as I know, in a respected Australian shop and had the invoice. On the phone the clearly told me the wouldn’t fix mi watch because It was bought in Australia.
Well, besides that, I’d love to buy the vectors, but I’m afraid right now they’re having serious issues. Maybe the % of customers suffering them is so low, but don´t think so. I’m on a very well respected forum about bikes (mtbr type) and there’s a thread about the vectors and for what I read, it seems the problem is not an isolated issue.
In any case, I’ll wait for a few weeks and see…
I’d be curious to hear your take on the issues (short battery life, battery door, dropouts) folks are facing with the Vector 3s and whether or not you still think the number of issues being brought forward based on the number of units produced is insignificant.
I’m really interested in the Vector 3 pedals but have some hesitations based on the issues being brought forward.
I saw the Ray’s review of Specialized Power Cranks where he’s using Favero Assioma Duos for a comparison and they look super solid, they track really close to the Specialized PM.
I actually used Vector 3 for my initial Specialized beta testing. In fact – little known secret: If you look at my very first Vector 3 preview post where it says ‘4iiii power meter’ in the accuracy section…that was actually the Specialized power meter. 🙂
It is interesting how/what people read on things though. The Specialized post actually made me notice an interesting bug/quirk in how Assioma handles short 1-2 second power stoppages that I hadn’t seen before (read: It doesn’t). A few people in the power meter industry e-mailed me after that yesterday and had some comments on what specifically that is and why it happens, but something that my riding conditions didn’t pickup previously (I mainly saw it on a shared bike path with lots of turns, so I was constantly stopping/starting pedaling).
In any case, I didn’t use Vector 3 with that review simply because I have the Vector 3 pedals on my other bike right now for the upcoming Shimano power meter review. I typically don’t like to move pedals back and for every day, because I don’t want the settling period (however small) to impact my data sets such that every data set is a settling period.
Yep. You can also look at the Assioma in-depth review instead of nitpicking bits of information from other power meters reviews and reach same conclusion. Assioma’s are super solid power meter. And ironically often criticized rechargeable battery might be it’s secret weapon against it’s closest rivals.
Things about Assioma putting me off:
1) Possible problems with pods – I might need additional cleat shims
2) I’ve read it’s pretty hard to clip-in instinctively (the way the pedals weight is distributed supposedly makes it hard to “predict” how to clip in without looking). Pretty sure it’s an exaggeration, but who knows..
I recall that the early Garmin GPS units, like the eTrex, were not reliable when used on a bicycle. They had removable batteries (AA cells) which would temporarily lose contact during cycling induced vibration. Garmin provided a battery compartment spacer to reduce the effect of the vibration on the batteries. It was not 100% effective so I added a crude capacitor circuit to compensate for the temporary loss of battery current. Garmin eventually moved to permanently installed, rechargeable batteries for cycling applications. In addition to the convenience of being rechargeable and offering higher capacity, a battery that is permanently affixed to the circuitry is unlikely to be affected by vibration.Stacking the two batteries in the Vector 3 battery compartment could be contributing to the drop out problem.Garmin discusses “fretting” in their best practice note. Fretting can lead to contamination resulting in the batteries intermittently losing contact with each other or the battery contact springs. I’d hate to think Garmin is relearning an old lesson.
After the clearance issues encountered with the BePro pods are a thing of the past, imho the pods are actually a STRONG point of the Favero offering. When cycling, and especially racing, you are going to crash sooner or later. In my experience, each time you hit the deck, the pedal on side you go down, takes a heavy beating. Unlike with P1s and V3s, with the Assiomas its only the easily replaceable pedal body that will be dingged up or destroyed, not the electronics and/or the weak battery cap. Also due to the external electronics servicing the Assiomas (replacing bearings, etc.) is like servicing any other pedal.
I want to get back to you about these stoppages – what do you think of them? Can they fix it by firmware update? Did you send your data to Favero? I’m kinda close(r) to getting Faveros than I’ve ever been before and just want to make sure it’s gonna be a good purchase.
I haven’t had a chance yet to ask them about it. Just been slammed trying to get a pile of reviews ready for the next 5-7 days. Sorta a death by a thousand cuts thing.
I have zero doubts that *could* fix it in firmware, but whether or not that’d be near-term is a different question. Sometimes things that seem straight forward….aren’t.
That said, I’d note that it really only surfaces in the very limited scenario I noted above where i was constant stop/start-pedaling on a bike/ped path. It’s not something I even noticed this past summer while doing plenty of city/mountain/etc riding.
I see.. Okay, thank you, I’m a bit relieved now. I have just emailed them myself (I’m interested as well). If I get a chance to see the reply I’ll post it here. I know the situation is extreme, but if it can be helped then let’s help 🙂
Thank you for your email. I am glad to tell you that my colleagues already knew about the article and had the chance to further investigate the topic.
Virtually every model of power meter has a different instantaneous behavior in short pauses (even thought, when it comes down to the average power nothing should really change).
This different instantaneous behavior of Assioma is a direct result of some technical design choices, mainly the type of measurements filters (stability over reactivity-oriented), the ANT+ configuration (event over time-based), the ANT+ Power message type (crank torque CT over power-only PO, and others) and the measuring point (Dual over single-sided).
From our experience, there is no best or worst choice in absolute terms, just different trade-offs and advantages depending on the specific situation and the general use of the power meter.
This is to say that, although we can understand it may appear “aesthetically” unpleasant in this specific case, we definitively do not consider Assioma’s behavior in short pauses as a sign of inaccuracy, but mostly a sign of our power meter’s ANT+ protocol implementation which, in our tests, proved to be able to guarantee an excellent measurement stability in the overall road cycling experience. This fact seems to be noticed and appreciated by both bePRO and Assioma’s end users.”
Garmin support continues to say the issues are from early manufacturing problems, only affected a small percentage of units, and that those units are no longer in its inventory. It is sending me a third set of pedals after the new battery door and PCB failed to correct right side dropout problem with the second set of pedals.
I believe there was a actually a change relatively early on that addressed some issues, but that doesn’t/didn’t include the most recent change for newly updated caps/pods that people are receiving via support if they have issues.
As DFWKen notes, basically anyone shipping Vector pedals out today are from units they probably got that same day from Garmin. They’re so significantly backordered that no stock is sitting around unless it’s in some random local bike shop somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
Got the battery door replacement and the right pedal won’t work. Still left to using just one pedal. Pretty disappointing. Got back in touch with Garmin. Hopefully they will be replacing the pedals next.
My Vector 3’s are defective. I bought a set of Vector 3’s and after spending a month with Garmin’s support team helping them troubleshoot the issue, they narrowed it down to a defect in the battery compartment. Apparently lots of customers are having this issue. Rather than simply replace them, Garmin is shipping a new battery compartment and asking me to fix the pedals on their behalf. The only problem is that the repair kit is out of stock so i have to wait for them to get more.
In summary, i paid $1000 for a defective product that Garmin now wants me to spend time fixing on their behalf, but only after they get enough stock to send the repair kit to me. Disappointed.
I’m not expecting battery “doors” to fix the problem. They haven’t fixed anyone else’s issues. I got a notice that they’re back-ordered until the end of March. I notified BikeTiresDirect that I will probably be returning the pedals for a full refund just before their 60-day return period is over and that so far, Garmin hasn’t been able to help.
I’ve swapped the batteries in the holders between the two pedals several times and it didn’t help anything at all. The right pedal sensor is still missing and all of my power readings are approximately half-power. 0% right pedal power.
Either the retailer or Garmin needs to give me a plan and money-back protection against ending up with a faulty product. That’s the only way I’m going to keep ’em (unless there’s a miracle cure really, really soon.
Have any readers had a battery door, battery holder, or PCB replacement fix their Vectors and, if so, approximately how many miles have you ridden since the successful repair?
Hi Ray.
Having seemingly got my Atom and Vector 3 aligned, did a 2 hour ride on them both.
While power readings were close at the start, by the end Vector was reading 5% below the Wattbike.
Any reason why this would be happening?
Thank you
That’s a super tough one to determine the correct one to assign blame to (or just, the correct one). A couple of things I’d look at:
A) Vector: I presume crank length was set?
B) Workout structure: Were there any breaks/rests in here, or was it two hours straight? I ask because a break would give auto zero time to kick-in on Vector
C) Temp shifting? Any changes in temp for the room? Typically Vector is pretty good with temp shifts, though I didn’t test temp shifting on the Atom simply because the room I’m in is pretty stable (sometimes I’ll be in places like this week whereby the temp is very much NOT stable in the garage, but that wasn’t the case with the Atom spot).
Unfortunately, it’s going to be super difficult to figure out which is which here, especially since the Atom design doesn’t permit any other power meters to be placed on it. :-/
I’m done waiting . . . and the risk seems too high that the V3 are going to have a problem. I’m going with the P1s. It’s a known product and been working for a couple years, and it has more analytics than the Faveros.
Meanwhile, I’m just sitting here… a super happy V3 user with no problems. Nobody ever posts that – or rarely. Yeah, I’m nervous/excited about my first battery change. But whatever, these pedals rock for me so far.
Thank you for posting this. My V3 didn’t work out of the box, so I’m waiting for a new pair anxiously. I really want to like vectors and I hope garmin will sort them out.
I feel like I’m piling on at this point, but given some of the comments about the issues being related to early production runs, I wanted to add that mine were shipped from Clever Training on February 28th and they experienced all the greatest hits list (right pedal missing, dropouts, long stretches with no power, power spikes) right out of the box. I hadn’t touched a battery compartment. I gave them six rides split between indoors and outdoors, but only had two that were usable.
I’m a big Garmin fan and know they will eventually figure this out, but for now, the Vector 3’s are going back to CT and I’m going back to my Vector 2’s.
Got my V3 duo’s from Clever Training late December. Had one minor spike, but no dropouts.
Changed the batteries recently after 2000 km / 66 hours. No issues…..
I’m (still) a very happy user.
Thank You Ray for a fantastic job and thank you guys for posting experiences, tweaks, questions & answers
I got my vector 3 pedals from CT end of February. First ride only had power readings for 12mins, then right pedal not found and losing readings on and off for the next 2.5 hours.
Next ride 50 mins with correct readings, then power and cadence spikes with lose of readings sometimes for a few minutes and sometimes for longer, and this is before any battery changes. Sending them back today.
According to what i’ve been reading apparently some batteries are better at minimizing the issues than others? Not too concerned with duration if that prevents dropouts, spikes and any of the other problems. Can someone tell me which batteries these are? Brand and model? Ideally reference number?
So far so good with my vector 3 duos, but I just got my first low battery warning and I’m pretty weary of the whole battery change process…
@nHerrero, I’ve had success with Duracell LR44 and Varta LR44. Only issue I have ever had is with the low battery warning appearing after about 40-50 hours riding, although the head unit says the battery levels are ‘Good’. I swapped them out anyway.
Not tried SR44 varients yet but have some in reserve for the next battery change.
Just be careful with the battery change – Garmin’s FAQ on that is good though.
I’ve got the battery warning after 40 hours too.
It’s keeps on showing up when using the pedals, and disappears between rides (indication goes back to full).
I’ve decided to go with this until the batteries will die.
So far, I’m reaching 70 hours with no spikes, no drops, and very accurate measurements.
Yeah,
Now that I’ve unpaired and disabled the right pedal sensor, I’m getting low battery once on every ride; usually with 15 minutes of starting. I click “OK” and don’t see it again until 10- – 15 minutes into the next ride.
I measured the voltage of the pair to be 2.75 volts, nowhere near needing to be replaced. Guess I’ll just ride on until it quits.
By the way, using the Vector 3 as a Vector 3 “S” is providing pretty good data. Maybe I should have bought 3S in the first place instead of waiting 2 months for the Vector 3’s to be available and then dealing with weeks of problems from them.
Could I put these on my Peloton indoor trainer, and get an accurate output? Or is there an accounting for resistance and weight of the flywheel that needs to be considered?
I ordered the Vector 3’s directly from Garmin, in Australia, on 5th Feb.
7 weeks later, and the expected shipping date has slipped twice. Now they’re saying mid-April. I’d bet Garmin’s decided that given the issues, they want to ensure no problematic units land over here. In IT we say security through obscurity. This is one advantage of living so far away!
Every single online store in Australia is showing backorder, and I’ve only ever seen one pair in a random shop in the ‘burbs here in Melbourne. I sure hope nobody buys them.
This has given me a chance to have a second look at the Assioma’s, and I’ve built up a fairly good list of pro’s to doing down this route:
– Cheaper AU$200-500 depending on where you look
– Greener (rechargeable)
– Cheaper to run (rechargeable)
– Lighter (30g, if you consider weight of batteries!)
– Installs with 8mm key, one less tool needed for travel
– The pedal itself looks to be better designed; better bearings, better protection from the elements, more easily serviceable with spare parts readily available from Favero’s site. The pod being on the inside also means if you take a tumble, it’s only the replaceable body that gets banged up
– Lower stack height (10.5 vs 12.7)
– Data looks to be really accurate and consistent
That’s a heck of a list, Ray! 😉
If only those pods were just a little bit smaller…
If I were a betting man, I’d bet Vector 4 will come out with a rechargeable battery and sensors on the inside too.
Yeah, I don’t think there’s ever been any debate that the Assiomas are a solid pedal. And my entire Vector 3 vs Assioma vs P1 pedal post from the past basically can be summed up with: Which look do you prefer?
For the most part, the major reason people do or do not pickup a pair of Assiomas hinges on the look of the pod and whether it matters to them.
The one single thing that is keeping me waiting for Garmin’s are:
1) Report as a single unit over Bluetooth in Zwift/TrainerRoad. (Has Favero fixed this?)
2) The Favero pods look a little unsightly with Campy cranks – they seem to be far more suited aesthetically to Shimano cranks.
Nope, they haven’t. I just checked with latest firmware and latest Zwift via BLE and it shows as two separate units – left and right. Vector 3 shows as one.
Well, from my experience I’d steer well clear until the issues are resolved. I bought my V3’s a few weeks ago and they have consistently dropped Bluetooth & ANT+ signals. The longest they have maintained any connection is around 20 minutes.
I’ve followed all the advice of deleting the Garmin Connect App, changing my wifi channel to avoid interference, etc etc but in short I have paid $800 for a pair of dumb pedals.
My picture is an image of what looks like a particularly spiky interval session, but was in reality a steady-state effort.
Garmin support is shocking – they can take up to a week to respond, and when they do it’s not exactly enlightening. They have advised me there is a known software problem but have not given any eta for a fix.
So, with regret, I’m going to return them to the shop and look for an alternative, the Assiomas look a likely candidate. This was my first & probably last Garmin purchase.
Sorry to hear you have had some frustration with your Vector 3 set Chris. Please reach out to us at social@garmin.com and we will help get this sorted out for you.
In theory, yes, they are compatible with the Edge 810. However, the beta software update released today to address some of the reported issues excludes the 810.
Placed my order for the Vectors last December, had to wait until mid Feb for delivery but everything worked fine out of the box. However, the batteries lasted nowhere near the claimed 120hrs, i had less than 30hours use before i got the battery low warning. Having seen the reports of issues following battery changes i was very very careful when changing them and first ride with new batteries was fine. Second ride was not. The right pedal was ‘missing’ and the power figures were all over the place with constant drops. I contacted Garmin and tried all their suggestions, including sending .fit files, but ended up having to return them. Replacement set came last week. First few rides were fine but then i started getting the right pedal missing warning again. Garmin suggested a battery change, despite only a few hours use, and low and behold, following this the numbers became inconsistent, frequent drops and pretty much unusable.
Garmin support have tried to assist but these are not exactly cheap to purchase so i have decided to get a refund and will try an alternative. Very disappointing as they seemed the perfect power meter.
I’ve just received confirmation my set are faulty and have decided to forgo a replacement set and get a Quarq instead. Shame as it won’t easily move between bikes but I’d rather have accuracy and consistency. Nothing worse than the readings going haywire 3/4 of the way through a threshold session. So that’s both Vector 1s and 3s that have failed on me in the last few years.
Well mine were good until the battery change. Totally dead after that. I followed their special directions.
I put in a case with Garmin and told them in my original notes that I followed the special directions. After days of no response, I got an email back, giving me the special directions for battery changes. Ugh. I think they are overwhelmed with this and not even reading the tickets before blasting back with the battery change notes. Might have to return these which will leave me without pedals.
I just received a new pair of Vector 3 pedals from Garmin under warranty. I’ve installed them on a bike that uses PowerCranks – nothing to do with a motor – cranks that have a clutch mechanism and turn independently from one another. Each leg is on its own for turning its crank. My first 6 minute test ride created a very interesting .fit file. I’ll investigate tomorrow and report back.
It won’t work right unless each pedal independently counts cadence, and I doubt that’s the case since there’s no reason to do that with normal cranks. If most of the time you’re using them “normally” then it should give a pretty good approximation.
I’ve had the Vector 3 for about a month and experienced the same issues as others. First an occasional drop while indoors on the trainer, changed batteries and seemed ok for a couple rides and then back. I took them on a week training camp in Cali, worked for 2 days and then the right pedal went missing and then totally dead. Bummer, when they worked they were great. Going back to Garmin, in MHO they’re not ready for release based on the number of reported similar issues.
It seems that a lot of users have had battery related issues. The CR1/3N battery is a Lithium battery with good low temperature performance and very low internal resistance. It could solve your issue while Garmin sorts out the bugs.
Already frustrated with a Bryton 310 GPS, when power readings from the Vector 3 became abnormal, it was the last straw and reason to invest in an Edge 520 hoping for a more compatible connection. Unfortunately, it took spending $250, on top of the $1000, to demonstrate the actual problem was in the pedals. $1250 is meaningful to me. All of this was before removing caps and replacing batteries. Have now, still without success.
I called Garmin, they couldn’t be nicer and are sending new PCBs to replace, although backordered and continuously pushed further back due to the high demand. This is a significant problem.
Please be sensitive with words like “overblown” and “10 unique individuals on THIS thread” as though that’s some sort of definitive sample size. With enough individuals detailing their challenges on here and on Garmin, there’s really no need for me or possibly many others to comment further. The comments that are here from the handful of “unique individuals” are incredibly valuable however to see what’s working, if new options have been discovered, if the replacement parts have been effective, etc. Thank you all for contributing.
I value your reviews and purchased through CT. Neither are responsible in any way adding to feeling no need to complain to you.
But please be careful not to minimize. There are a lot of frustrated customers with this right now. Out a good chunk of change. Practicing a lot of patience.
I just now received an email from Garmin that they have a new beta firmware for the Vector 3 pedals that is supposed to address the issue of Right Pedal Sensor MIssing due to conflicts between Bluetooth and ANT+ along with a form to download if any issues are experienced.
I’ll be trying it out tonight and tomorrow indoors since we have 2 full days of rain here.
Today we released a public beta for Vector 3 that addresses the known software issues that caused spurious right-sensor-missing messages, poor connection behavior, and unexpected power dropouts. Please see the link below for details.
I installed the public beta for the Vector 3 last night. After finally getting the new firmware into the Edge 520 , it finally tried to update the pedals. Then, it said that there wasn’t enough battery to do the whole thing (takes several minutes). I had to re-pair the right pedal since I’d unpaired it to get some single-pedal usage from the set since 2-pedal usage didn’t work. That took a while because the ANT+ ID isn’t conspicuous. Garmin helped me locate the ID number and then it paired instantly. The number is etched into the spindle where the wrench torques it into the crank arm. Very, very tiny.
Bought new batteries today at Walmart and carefully inserted them. This is set #4 since purchasing the Vectors . . . I don’t ride THAT much. ;>).
IT WORKS! This is the first time my pedals have worked since early February when I bought them.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Garmin has corrected the firmware issues and this will be a solid fix.
Shawn, I downloaded the software and saved the 006B278703.gcd file in the \GARMIN\RemoteSW folder of my Edge device in the location specified but when that device recognizes the Vector 3 it does not tell me that new software is ready to install. What now?
I received a followup but, unfortunately, the recommended steps did not work and I remain unable to upload the software to the pedals. Three sets of Vector 3s, PCB and battery door, near daily calls and emails with support, countless hours invested, and they still do not work properly.
I struggled with the recommended steps as well. But after installing another new set of batteries, unpairing the pedals from the Edge 520, re-pairing them, (maybe more than once, it was getting frustrating), re-pairing the right pedal . . . . suddenly the lights started going red/green/red/green and the update completed.
Today, I did 80 miles and I do believe that the pedals worked properly. I got one Right Pedal Sensor Missing just as I rolled out at the start of the ride and one Low Battery indication, but after that, no issues at all for 4 hours of hill riding. I’m very encouraged. At this point, there’s no reason to return the pedals to BikeTiresDirect for refund. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
OH, but I don’t understand why the message of Low Battery when I measured the pair of batteries to be 2.6 volts (no load). Seems they should provide plentiful power down to at least 2 volts.
So, I was able to get my 2nd set of Vector 3s finally working for 3 consecutive rides after replacing the batteries (dead out of the box) and turning off Bluetooth on my Edge 810. The public Beta release doesn’t work for the 810. According to Garmin Support, the software update should be released to all platforms soon.
In the meantime, Garmin Support has been very good about explaining their current state of knowledge, their plan forward, and improving my faith that they are working diligently on a number of fronts to address the issues at top priority. My synopsis of today’s discussion with them; manufacturing tolerances across battery manufacturers and even within a particular brand is problematic for Garmin. The battery housing design is not robust given those problems and may end up being re-designed. The Engineering team is working towards a long-term solution.
Yup, in a discussion with Verve (maker of the Infocrank power meter that uses the same battery types) back a week or two ago in-person, they showed me two 3rd party testing reports from a single battery manufacturer showing two things:
A) That batteries that were even branded the same identical battery model from said well-known and respected maker, produced dramatically different battery characteristics. In some cases, the battery only gave 20% of the prescribed duration.
B) In Verve’s case, they found that batteries differed in size as well (as Garmin has stated too). Verve was lucky in that most of the time their battery compartment design handled it (but not always).
This also ignores the whole LR vs SR bits as well as finding said batteries. As you might expect, Verve basically said that any future power meter designs would definitely not use that battery type again. It might have even been phrased “over our dead bodies”.
Which isn’t to say Garmin can’t get around the design issues (certainly, they seem to already be working on it). And of course, ultimately it’s a tradeoff between size and overall pedal design.
Have you seen any issues with your Vector 3 pedals. There are a lot of reports about battery and firmware issues from many users both here and on the Garmin Forum.
I had a single ride back about 2-3 weeks ago, where I got many of the same symptoms as others around dropouts. But I suspect that was because about 4 weeks prior I got a low-battery warning on my right pedal and replaced only the batteries in that…but stupidly not both pedals (thus violating a well understood and mostly unwritten ‘rule’ about always replacing all batteries at once…).
After the ride with the dropouts I simply swapped all batteries for new ones, and everything was fine for all rides since.
These pedals are from standard retail store, and not anythin provided by Garmin. Nor are they running any special firmware, just whatever is on production (and not even the latest beta one either).
It’s all a bit confusing. I am waiting for things to sort out with these pedals before placing my order. Garmin is addressing the battery size issue with a re-design of the battery holder and has recently issued beta firmware to address dropout issues. There is something going on for sure. What is strange is that some user have such serious issues while others, like yourself, seem to be OK from day 1.
I will wait a little longer to see how this sorts out. If you could talk to Garmin to see what is going on I am sure that we would all be interested to hear your take on the firmware and the new battery holder vs the old design. Some pictures of the old vs new design would be very interesting.
I suspect the battery size thing purely comes down to dumb-luck with battery purchases. I’ve largely purchased name-brand batteries for my production unit (Duracell/Energizer). Though in prototype I purchased all sorts of random no-name batteries (without issue).
See my comment just about about what Verve (maker of the Infocrank power meter) had to say about using this battery type. In their case they were lucky in that their annuals power meter volumes are less than what Garmin puts out in half a week or so. Said differently: Nobody hears that tree fall in the forest when users have issues.
I like the Verve assessment of the LR/SR battery type “over our dead bodies” would they use this battery type again. It will be interesting to see how Garmin sorts this out.
One option for the Vector 3’s is the CR1/3N battery which is a lithium battery with a 10 year shelf life. Only 1 battery is needed per pedal and it seems to have solved some peoples battery issues on the Garmin forum. I think that Garmin is not too keen about this approach since the battery is harder to find and can be expensive. Not a good marketing strategy. It does however have good cold weather performance and has a detailed spec sheet. The LR/SR batteries are mostly used in calculators, where the electrical load is really small and is therefore only specified at room temperature and very low currents. The CR1/3Nbattery is used in cameras where it is exposed to outdoor conditions and has a more detailed characterization. I have attached some datasheet links.
They’re available on Amazon for about the same price as a pair of LR-44s. I assume that CR 1/3 means 3 volts in 1 package. (LRs are 3 volts from two stacked packages).
As quickly as the Vectors run out of battery, I doubt they’ll have much opportunity for leakage.
I replaced my left pedal batteries this evening. Towards the end of a 3 hours training race, I was getting Right Pedal Sensor Missing errors again. I thought, “Oh no. I was hoping that was fixed with the beta firmware.” But before condemning the firmware, I checked my batteries. Right pedal first: 2.87 volts! Then the left pedal: 1.35 volts! I changed the left pedal batteries with two that were reading 2.75 (stacked). In all the battery confusion over the past month, I may have accidentally put an older set into the left pedal. Another training race tomorrow morning. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Ken,
I also buy batteries on Amazon but only if the seller has hundreds of positive reviews. There are however a lot of fakes on Amazon which are very hard to spot by the packaging and printed expiry date. As an example see this link.
Has anyone used the Vector’s with a Wahoo Element Bolt? I know Cycling Dynamics is not available but as long as I have cadence and power that’s all I need. I use 170mm cranks, although I think I can dial that setting into the pedals using my Edge 520.
I am using Garmin Vector 3 with Wahoo Element Bolt since I bought the Vectors. No problems whatsoever. You get quite a lot of features, such as Pedal Smoothness and Torque Effectiveness; no metrics though on pedal platform offset….nevertheless for me I have everything I would need. So botto line, the Bolt goes hand in hand with the Vectors.
By the way, @ Ray, the pedals have so far about 20-25 hours of riding, no dropouts, spikes etc… So I am one of the happy users :D.
Nevertheless I did not have to change yet the batteries, but to be honest, based on everything I have read within the last 2 months here and on the Garmin forum, I am dreading the moment I have to do it, and I really hope it will go smooth. Will keep you all posted.
You’ll obviously get all standard Ant+ metrics like power, cadence, L/R balance, pedal smoothness and torque effectiveness on Elemnt Bolt. I think that’s more than enough.
Thanks both for your reply. I think I will go with the Bolt as the battery life on the Edge 520 is draining really quick, after 2 years old.
Good luck with the battery change, George. I have used Varta and Duracell LR44’s with success. I will next try Duracell SR44’s and also have a go with CR1 type battery. Be sure to get them from a reputable outlet so that you know they aren’t fake. The FAQ on Garmin Vector forum page is a good reference point if you have not seen that.
Thanks C, I will follow your advice on the battery type for the Vectors.
Respect to the battery of the Bolt,I can vouch it is long lasting: I believe I did about 10-11 hours of riding with navigation for about 70-80% of the time and then decided to recharge (it was still showing if I remember correctly 24% battery). So all in all, I think the Bolt by far outperforms the Garmin either with navigation ON or OFF. My opinion is that you can’t go wrong with the Bolt.
I have some updates, unfortunately not very encouraging: since yesterday, the GC app (v 4.5) on my SamsungS8 is not recognising the Vector 3 pair anymore. Bluetooth is ON, I restarted the phone several times,also the GC app, I woken up the pedals several times, tried then several times to refresh via GC app to try and detect the pedals, unfortunately nothing…. says device not connected. While cycling and using the Elemnt Bolt unit I get power readings, which I believe they are still accurate.
I am wondering though if this behaviour (Vectors not being recognised anymore in GC app) is an indication that the batteries might be getting low. I have no other way of checking the level except via the app on my phone, as I have a Wahoo Bolt head unit and not a Garmin one.
Can any of you folks provide me some info on whether or not this might be the start of a battery issue?
I want to mention that the Vector set has now roughly 35 hours of riding.
We are aware of an issue with the 4.5 Garmin Connect Mobile (GCM) update for Android that did not allow the V3 to communicate properly with Vector 3. We have released a patch today (GCM 4.5.1) for Android that should resolve this problem. Apologies for the frustration. link to forums.garmin.com
Hey, love your site it’s helped me a lot with my triathlon related purchases.
I was in a minor crash today (a driver didn’t want me to get in front of them at the traffic lights, so caused me closed the gap with curb causing me to mount pathment). Anyway the result was the underside of my pedal got stuck on a high curb, and it removed quite a lot of material- it’s more than just a scuff.
My question is, are the vector 3 bodies just plastic shells with no electronics, can all the clever stuff around the spindle be removed? I hoping I can simply replace the the body at a relatively low cost.
Your best bet is to reach out to Garmin Support, and they can get you all setup with the replacement parts. I think you’ll generally find that if you can call instead of e-mail/etc, you’ll probably get pretty good support from the Vector team in this case.
I’m a bit confused about the statement that only Garmin Edge can display Cycling Dynamics. According to my Forerunner 920xt manual (and settings) it can display all those values. What’s am i missing?
It can record all those metrics, but I don’t think the FR920XT can display some of them as well as the Edge series can on the device itself. Meaning, the graphs and such.
It’s all a bit messy, as I de-paired the pedals because if the drops-outs and spikes due to the GCM bug. Therefore I can’t set crank length via the phone.
I’ll sent them back under warranty I think, and switch back to Powertap P1. Pity, but despite good initial feeling I’m disappointed with the Vector 3 so far.
I’m not sure why it’s not showing up for you on the FR920XT. But nonetheless, simply pairing it via the phone and setting the crank length and then de-pairing would only take 2-3 minutes tops. Seems quicker than doing the warranty thing, but that’s just me.
Yes that’s true. Might be a workaround. I’ll think about it. But since I change between bikes quite often, and the crank lengths differ, this is a bit annoying as well… I feel I shouldn’t have to fiddle around like this only because Garmin doesn’t deliver as expected.
To be honest, if your FR920XT isn’t showing the crank length for Vector 3, it likely won’t show for the PowerTap P1 either, since they’re both leveraging the same aspect of the spec.
I’d honestly try and troubleshoot why it’s not working for you with Garmin, because I’d hate for you to go through all the hassle, only to find out you’re in the same pickle on the P1 (or Assioma or whatever). All three are great pedals, and the FR920XT is a great head unit, so something isn’t quite clicking there.
One thing for fun to try is to remove the Vector 3 pedals from your FR920XT, and then re-add them, and see if it prompts for crank length then.
Odd, I’m stumped then. Might be worth a quick post to the Garmin Forums, I know the Vector team watches there and may have some obvious answer I can’t think of (I’d post to the Vector forums instead of FR920XT forums since I don’t think anyone from Garmin watches the FR920XT forums).
Thanks for the tip with the forum. I did that a fews weeks ago. No follow-up so far.
By the way, in the meantime I’ve tested with a second Forerunner 920xt unit. Same problem. Stunning. Especially for 2 products of the same brand.
REFUND
My reseller has agreed to take them back under warranty, also because of the spikes and drop-outs. I’ll go with the Assioma for now.
VERDICT
Without any intention to put shadow on your great review, my personal verdict is that for the moment these pedals are definitely not worth the money, given that all the software (be it Garmin Connect Mobile and/or firmware on the Vectors) is such a mess.
HARDWARE, CLEATS (vs Shimano)
It’s really a pity though, because the pedals definitely have great hardware features. I like the neat design, and I think the pedal platform gives great feedback, the cleats are really really nicely and solidly attached to the pedal (large platform). I’m a former Shimano-pedal-user and had great reluctance 2 years ago to switch to the Powertap P1 because of the Keo-style cleats. It wasn’t that bad though, and with the Vector 3 I definitely didn’t miss the Shimano pedals anymore. I might even prefer the feel of the Vector 3 over that of Shimano. Clipping in is perfectly easy (easier than Powertap P1 as I find): the pedal is always in the right position and doesn’t spin around like crazy (like the Assioma – or Exustar pedals in fact – as it seems, unfortunately). Garmin did a good job there.
INSTALLATION
On another hardware difference, I slightly prefer to attach a pedal with a hex key (like Powertap or Favero). With the Vector 3 it’s nearly impossible to avoid touching the spindle to get them into the crank arm, and thus one might get greasy fingers. This might not be an issue to many people, but I prefer not to put grease in places it doesn’t belong after touching the pedals ?
CYCLING DYNAMICS
And finally, although I really like numbers and stuff, the advanced cycling dynamics that Garmin provide are a gimmick and not really necessary (to me at least). I don’t believe they make you a better cyclist in any way. The time looking at the numbers is probably better spent training more or cooking a nice recovery meal.
WRONG MARKETING?
To wrap up, to me it just feels like that Garmin wanted to absolutely get the product out for the new season in order not to lose (more?) market share to their competitors. But what they achieved are 2 things: angry customers, and Powertap had to drop prices (thanks for that, Garmin). So I would be curious to know whether the premature launch of the Vector 3 wasn’t counterproductive for them.
With so many competitors and ever better products, I think Garmin can not afford anymore to use their customer base as beta testers. Too much frustration generated.
I also see the Vector 3 more as a 1st generation product rather than a 3rd generation product. Yes, it’s the 3rd powermeter from Garmin, but it is a completely new system, and as such has some initial issues as many had. But with the maturity that the powermeter market has reached in the meantime, such issues are just not acceptable anymore.
Apologies. Got excited and spoke too soon. The CR1/3N battery is not a fix. Some connection when previously there was none. But totally intermittent. Repeatedly connects and drops.
i notice there is a max rider weight of 105kg, how strict is this as i’m hovering around the 104-106Kg point.
Is this a calibration or structural limit?
Where did you read this information about the effect on the ‘durability of the pedal bearings’? I am 110kg and wondering if it is safe to used the Vector 3. I wouldn’t mind if they just wear out a little faster. I am more concerned about them breaking while I am climbing and standing…
Thanks for any thoughts on this or ideas where I can read more.
My V3 started off well – seemed to give reliable data. However, they required a very early battery change (had only been used indoors for about 30 hours), then updated firmware to v3.0, then started reading erratically and unreliably on Elemnt Bolt and Garmin 820 (whether ANT+ or BT). Apparently there is an issue of which Garmin are aware with the battery holder – need to put some mineral oil between batteries, and ensure that insulating tape on battery holder is not wrinkled – see link to support.garmin.com
All a great shame that on the third version of their pedals they cant get something like that right. Anyway, they are replacing them (UK help desk take a minimum of two days to respond to any email – they are “busy”). Hopefully they can sort out the problems or these pedals really aren’t fit for purpose. Apologies if all of this is already known and posted ….. :-))
FINALLY got Garmin to agree to send me new battery holders. They ask for my address, and then a few days later I get a ship notification, and they have sent it to an apartment that I lived in during college, 8 or 9 years ago. Not even sure where they got that address.
Tried to reach the customer service rep, no response at all.
I passed on Clever Training offering to swap the pedals b/c Garmin was going to send the new battery holders. Now I am stuck holding pedals that don’t work, and Garmin goes 5+ days between each reply.
I wish I bought these straight from Garmin so I could do a chargeback on my credit card. Not fair to do that to Clever Training so I won’t.
Shawn@Garmin, I cc’d social@garmin.com when I pointed out the wrong address issue, can you please look into this?
Major problems with my Vector 3s pedals here, Gafmin have not been able to help me at all. Massively disappointed as they were a major investment for me. Here are the issues:
-The pedals reset to a 222.0mm crank length no matter what I do, throwing my power data waaay off. It happens if I set the crank length through the Wahoo or Garmin app. Have tried the app on an iphone and iPad.
-Power spikes, innacurate cadence and constant drop outs on the road and turbo. I’m still on my first set of batteries and the charge is ‘good’.
Has anyone had the crank length problem? I can’t find any info on it? The drop out issue seems like a common one… honestly so disappointed, serious buyer’s remorse.
There is a YouTube video link and some discussion about damping the vibrations of the batteries. If you are careful about not putting too much cork under the spring, then this may be a temporary fix until Garmin sorts things out.
I have a Bolt as well and set the crank lengths through the Garmin Connect App and these settings stick in the pedals. I then removed the pedals completely from the app before pairing with the Bolt. There is a know issue with Vector’s chucking out strange readings if it is still connect to GCM.
I check that the crank length is correct in the pedals about twice a week to make sure everything is okay.
I am connecting the pedals and the Bolt through ANT+ and then calibrate through the Bolt. Wahoo are aware of a bug with setting the crank length through the Bolt and say they are working on it.
I noticed that the Bolt gave different TSS, NP results to that of the Edge. To correct this, I changed my power zone settings in the Bolt app, saved them, then inputted the correct settings. I then synced this with the Bolt and these figures seem to be about the same now.
John. In addition to the battery holder issues leading to erratic/disappearing data, I have also found the same issue. I set crank length in Garmin Connect – use the pedals and then when I check back they have been reset to 222.0 ….. why they default to this in the first place is a mystery to me and why, if they have to default to something, they don’t use 172.5 which is what the majority of people use I have no idea.
And when you change your batteries prepare yourself for further joy …. read the advice on Garmin support and the Garmin chat rooms.
When I get my current pair replaced by Garmin (which is what they are doing) I am going to switch to Favero which seems much less lie a beta version!
Thanks for your reply. I’ve made the decision to just sell them. I know it’s a defeatist attitude, but I can’t be bothered dealing with a product that is detracting from my enjoyment of riding.
Kinda glad i’m not the only one having this issue.
I’ve made the decision to just sell them. I know it’s a defeatist attitude, but I can’t be bothered dealing with a product that is detracting from my enjoyment of riding.
Here’s another customer with major problems with my brand new Vector 3. I got problems from ride number 1 and after three rides (and upgrading to 3.15 beta version) still no better. First ride I got tons of “Right pedal missing” and second and third rides I got either no power at all, or way too high watts (1200W while cruising anyone?). They are basically useless to me. I would wait a month or two before recommending anyone else from buying them.
Just to let everybody know: It looks like I caught the unicorn this time: Mine started reporting a “low” battery status when riding outdoors at cold temperatures after ca. 90h which is totally expected. I changed the supplied Vartas with store-bought Duracell LR44. Used a magnet to carefully get old the old batteries (probably not really required) and applied some baby oil (don’t know whether I need it). I hand-tightened the battery covers and closed them finally down to 2Nm using a torque wrench.
Everything (still) works perfect – rode with them at temperatures < 5° and battery is reported as "good", no drop-outs afaik.
I fully expect the units to be bricked by the next firmware release… 😉
I put new batteries in mine a few days ago, same time that I installed the new beta firmware. After 3 or 4 rides, began getting “low battery” indication within 5 minutes of starting rides. Last Thursday, the pedals quit communicating with the Edge 520 altogether, but began communicating again on Friday. Sunday, they quit again at the end of a Box Hill PR attempt. (grrrrr). So yesterday, Monday, checked battery voltages. 2.51 volts on the left and 2.57 on the right, measured with my Fluke DVM. That seems like it should be enough; but inserted new batteries in the left pedal. Instant joy. Worked perfectly for my Monday ride. They gotta last longer than that, don’t you think?
I got the low battery warning after 30 hours, which is just ridiculous, although I do have pedaling dynamics and every other possible metric switched on which is, after all, one of the main reasons to buy these pedals. They are still going strong but it really bothers me to have to clear the warning EVERY SINGLE RIDE, even though its a minor nuisance.
LR44s were clearly (in retrospect, though…) the wrong battery choice by garmin. I see plenty of CR1/3N batteries in our (or at least my) future… I doubt i’m gonna try messing with the contact bending, baby oiling or battery taping even once. Vector 2 got significantly better battery life out of a single coin cell…
I recently found your reviews and are quite impressed with all the effort. So thumbs up! Your review on the Garmin V3 got me quite excited, as I think they are the most appealing pedal based powermeters, by looks [sorry for those offended, but I don’t like the looks of the “fat” P1 or the pods of the favero] However, all the negative comments I read make me a little hesitant to purchase it, since you don’t want to be “the next in line” waiting for replacement parts and not getting the apparatus to work. I was hoping that you might ease my mind a bit on that topic.
But before that, another question rises. I use to ride with a Sigma Rox 11.0 as headunit. As Garmin states, this unit is not on the list of being compatible with the V3, but through your replies in the forum I thought to read that as long as you don’t use cycling dynamics, the “normal” data as power, left/right balance should be transmitted anyway. Is it then possible to configure the V3 through the Garmin Mobile app, and then pair it to the Sigma for use, or would you rather not take the risk to try and find out that they do not work?
Realistically, I certainly can’t guarantee you anything when it comes to Vector 3 and luck. I can say that while certainly there have been issues (as Garmin has themselves even noted), primarily in the battery compartment area (which then impacts other stuff), I do think that’s a small sliver of people. It so happens that when you ship a crapton of units, a small sliver is still a number of people. If it was everyone though, we’d have far more comments here and on the forums. Don’t get me wrong, totally sucks if you fall into that camp – and like anyone else, I certainly wish Garmin was moving faster on this. I see them next week, so I’m interested to see what they’ve got to say on where things stand from their perspective.
Still, my unit continues to work well, as does those of a few people I know in real life. I tend to use DuraCell batteries, since that seems to be a ‘known good’ for me. And I tend to follow some best practices like changing both pods at the same time. I haven’t done any of the things like baby oil or tape or anything else.
All that aside (since there’s plenty of discussion already on that)…as for Sigma.
Correct, you’d be able to use it with the Sigma without issues as you describe. I don’t know for 100% certain that Sigma supports left/right power, but if you see that as a data field option, then it certainly would. I have a chat with them tomorrow, so perhaps I’ll see.
Judging from the volume of complaints on Garmin’s forums and my own personal experience (I’m having battery compartment issues, despite following Garmin’s supplemental FAQ) I think it’s more than a sliver of users experiencing issues with these units. Would it be possible to add a footnote to the review or at least sticky a comment up top? Speaking for myself I bought this unit based on your review and I think it would be a disservice to people shopping for a power meter to not warn them of issues here.
I don’t think “Third time’s the charm.” is the whole truth for these at the moment.
Danny S, I do agree with you regarding the sliver of the units out there with the issues. The battery compartment problem and battery life are in addition to the “Right Pedal Sensor Missing” that prompted Garmin to issue the new beta firmware. I’m very happy that the sensor missing problem seems to be behind us.
But the battery problem may be inherent in the mechanical design of the pedals. I’m hoping that Garmin comes up with a new battery recommendation and also figures out how to get something closer to the advertised battery life. It appears that when a battery stack drops below 2.5 volts (from 3.0 brand new), there isn’t enough juice to power the units. I check battery voltage with new batteries and also when the pedals drop out due to low battery voltage. 2.6 to 2.7 seems to be the threshold. If my experience is an anomaly (in that sliver), then I’ll be asking Garmin for replacements.
I’ve used Garmin products for almost 2 decades. I’m also a stockholder. I have faith.
Danny – I updated the review with an addendum section in either late January or early February with comments about it. And then re-updated it again in March with the latest detail.
You’ll find that right before the ‘Power Meter Accuracy Results’ section.
As always, keep in mind that anytime you visit a forum for any company (be it Garmin, Apple, or even GE), it’s where people go to solve problems – not gloat about successes. With large volumes like Garmin/Apple/etc…You’ll therefor have more than just one or two people discussing an issue – even if they only affect 1%. Just my two cents.
That said, there’s no debating there’s an issue (Garmin has clearly stated as much). That’s more debatable is how many people it’s actually impacting. Garmin says a small number, and based on the numbers I see through various channels for volumes and such, I’m relatively inclined to agree with that. Doesn’t change it for those with issues, but does put it in perspective.
Why can’t I buy it on amazon? Is that a short term thing, or a change in their retail providers?
Also, should I be able to buy one knowing I should be confident of no issues? What if I do encounter a problem like this Battery Voltage issue – how has Garmin’s support historically been for consumers who have had these kind of issues? Does it get acknowledged but no real support for those affected? Do they do trade-ins for affected units? Some companies stand by their products and do whatever is necessary, and others simply don’t – I’m genuinely asking what Garmin’s track record history has been.
I ask because 1000USD is a huge amount to pay for, and at that point I’m also buying into their support network – I had been debating between these and the Favero Assioma, but the replaceable battery & advertised battery life is what is really steering me in this direction.
I also agree with you. I ordered through Clevertraining in mid February, even though I was planning to cancel the order (just planned to keep the queue) if issues weren’t solved by the time they’re ready to be shipped. By today CT still don’t get stock and keep pushing back the restocking date (early may right now). And there’s hard to find any shop with V3s stock (besides Garmin web)
Just makes me think they are not manufacturing this product for some reason. My guess is that there’s a real design failure that they are trying to solve before fabricating more pedals.
YAKOV,
It appears to be Beta Software 3.15 Released on March 27th.
I’m extremely pleased with the operation of the Garmin V3 pedals now. I’m currently recording a battery test to see how many actual hours of battery life I get. So far, 12-1/2 hours over 211 miles since Monday when I installed new batteries, 6 days ago. So far, no Low Battery messages.
Thanks Ken,
According to Battery life – my original VARTA supplied batteries started “low batteries” warning after 40 hrs, but I continued using them until 80 hrs extremely perfect.
Note:
My question about the firmware version was for my friend (my first V3 were replaced because of that after firdt week, and the replacement works fine from the beginning).
Any word or chance they will ever create an adapter kit for Ultegra/Dura Ace Pedals? To me that would be a huge game changer. Look pedals are meh fine, but Shimano’s are amazing.
It’s rather impossible because of big chunk of Vectors 3 electronics being contained in pedal body/bigger axle. It’s completely different design than it was with Vectors 2.
i bought the vector 3 pedals. from the first day of use i’ve got error ” right pedal is missing”. i did software updrade to version 3.30 that suppose to fix this problem but still i have the some problems. the head unit garmin 1030 is finding the power sensor but when i am trying to do clibration i am getting an error. when i am riding i am getting readings only from left pedal. please advice.
So, I am on my second pair replaced by Garmin. They worked for three rides and then suddenly stopped working – despite my Wahoo showing ANT+ connection, both pedals having Good battery strength and being calibrated.
I recognise that many people haven’t had problems but to get unlucky twice seems a particularly harsh stroke of fate or Garmin have a big problem.
Frankly, I can’t be bothered being a beta tester any more and am going back to Stages (for all their faults as well).
Hi,
Would any Garmin vector 3 buyer recommend me vector 3 as my first powermeter. I have an Garmin 1030 to pair with my vectors . As i see various issues faced by people and specially for the battery compartment. As I live in India where Garmin has not much developed and have good support, so I have to get it shipped from the US.
THANKS IN ADVANCE
Same question from me… I ordered Vector3 in november and have still not received them. Following the numerous complaints – and especially not so numerous hints from Garmin – I am probably lucky to not yet using them.
As of now I seem to have three options:
1. (most likely) change my order to Favero Assioma
2. (gamble) wait for the delivery and hope they will then work
3. (least likely) cancle the order and wait until (if ever) the dust has settled and Vector3 REALLY works
The second option would be OK for me as another couple of weeks won´t matter too much. However due to the absolute lack of communication from Garmin about what is going on and what/when the final solution is going to be I am really concerned that the Vectors might still be erratic when delivered.
Messing up a product launch is one thing – messing up the communication and what is done to solve the problems is another 🙁 The silence from Garmin makes me suspect that there are really deeper issues then just a redesign of e.g. a battery-cap.
Is there any sort of official (and convincing!) statement from Garmin that they will improve or redesign the Vector3 to make them reliable? And if so how and when?
garmin employee wrote this on garmin forums (so it’ semi official):
There is a legitimate effort underway to redesign the doors, and there has been for some time. But the redesigned doors are not yet available.
Also, some early production battery doors were subject to greater variability in assembly and that may have led to some of the problems identified by various users. These assembly issues have been identified and corrected as much as possible within the constraints of the existing design.
And that was posted when? And why “semi”-official? And when will “not yet available” end? And how are we supposed to believe that this REALLY solves the various issues?
If it would only be the battery door it would be good news and Garmin could be open about this issue (“will be resolved in june/july. Owners of older devices will receive the new doors once they are available”). However they are not, and instead prefer to take a solid beating… makes no sense to me and I thus suspect deeper problems.
I posted this on the Garmin Forum as well – let´s see if and how Garmin responds.
I want to post that since the firmware beta release 2 weeks ago, my Vector 3 pedals have been working flawlessly.
Yes, I had a short battery life right after the new firmware was installed, but that may have been a fluke. The new batteries I installed are almost 2 weeks old now. I ride 250 miles per week most weeks, so I have fairly heavy usage.
But the chronic problems that made my Vector 3 pedals useless have been rectified. I was within 2 or 3 days of claiming my money-back guarantee from Bike Tires Direct. Now, I’m glad that I still have the pedals.
Hi all,
Just wanted to give my experience of V3’s which I have owned since 18 th December 2017.
My pedals worked flawlessly out of the box and I mainly used them for Zwift as an existing dumb trainer user/owner. I was delighted with the change in Zwift experience that my V3’s gave me.
In around Feb 2018 ( after approx 60 hours) of use I changed the batteries when GCM showed them low. At the time I was oblivious to the battery cover issues and just changed them to Duracell LR44s as I would any electronic device. No problems and continued to use them, seemingly without issues, although I did have ANT+ connectivity problems which I managed to troubleshoot and wasnt related to the pedals. I continued my use of them with Zwift, desperately waiting for better weather to get some IRL riding done.
Within the last week my GCM has been showing the batteries as low but as they were still connecting with Zwift I kept going with the batteries, I had replaced in February. I managed to get another week or so out of them but then yesterday and with a change in the weather decided to put some new ones in so I could hit the road.
Now aware of the battery cover issues ( from this thread) I set everything up. I felt like a surgeon about to perform a complicated operation and was quite nervous and a little stressed!! I put my new Duracell’s in but had difficulty getting the cover thread lined up. Not wanting to damage the thread I tried several more times before the threads aligned and I tightened them up. The 2nd pedal was much easier but but I now had alternate green and red LEDs constantly flashing. They wouldn’t pair with GCM and I really thought I had broke them. Just on a whim I backed off the tightness on the covers by 1/4 of a turn. The lights stopped blinking and paired at which time it showed a firmware 3.3 upgrade was ready. This downloaded apparently without problem and I put them on my road bike before going out. Worked perfectly with my Edge 520.
Long winded way of saying I am delighted with my pedals, on Zwift or IRL, but the suffering – of reading all the posts on here and the ridiculous preparation/concentration when changing batteries detracts from the experience they give.
I genuinely feel sorry for all those who have had negative experiences and hope that Garmin can get a fix sorted for the covers very soon, for what are a great product.
Finally, a big thank you to Ray, for being both a brilliant source of information and for leaning on Garmin in the right way.
Ride on!
Chris
OK, the puzzle is solved: Garmin doesn´t respond at all – ZERO explanation, ZERO information!!!
Meanwhile I also talked to the Garmin Support in germany and that finally nailed it:
I also work for very, very large US Hightech company and know how tight-lipped engineering can be and how far away EMEA is from the US… but in a situation like this even I as a worker-bee would know what my company is doing to solve the issues. Unless of course they cannot be solved.
Last week I changed my order to Assioma DUO, received a considerable refund, and just now they mailed me the parcel tracking-ID.
Believe it or not – it can be that simple 🙂
I´ll update you once I logged a few miles with the Assioma.
My Garmin Vector 3 stop to send data to my Garmin Edge 1030.
i have version 3.9 on my EDGE 1030 and version 3.3 on my VECTOR 3 pedals. I can see on my EDGE that the power sensor is found “V3 BLE 0955541″ but still when i am trying to do calibration to the V3 i am getting an error message ” error balibration 0 ” and when i am riding i don’t receive any readings from the V3 to the EDGE 1030.
i need help.
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Thanks for posting Ray 🙂 Now I know what to do the next hour or so 😉
I was very interested in power pedals until i found out about the loss of around 6 degrees on bike lean angle.
What do you mean by losing 6 degrees on bike lean angle?????
Details here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Ray. I couldn’t find a definitive answer on the decrease in pedal stack heights V2 compared to V3 being ‘slightly’ lower. Do you have any insight on that one?
The stack height for Vector 2 is 10.50mm. The stack height for Vector 3 is 12.20mm. These measurements do not include the height of the cleat.
The Q factor for Vector 2 is 55.00mm (56.2mm with 1washer, 57.4mm with 2 washers)
The Q factor for Vector 3 is 53mm (55mm with provided 2mm washer)
I think someone asked about pedal stack heights.
Look Keo 2 Max Gen 1 – 15.7mm without cleats
Look Keo 2 Max Gen 2 – 15.9mm without cleats
Garmin Vector 3 – 12.2mm without cleats
3.5mm difference
I’m surprised Garmin was able to achieve a lower stack height then Look.
Is this to say that my leg will travel an extra 3.5mm on the stack height further and may have to lower the seat?
Exactly @jeremy
Don’t know if it’s a special deal or the new normal, but I just looked and Clever Training now says “FREE SHIPPING OVER $49”
Good catch, been updated for… a long time. Gotta update my little snippet!
Great as always.
One question regarding osymetric rings, support or not?
For best accuracy, it is advised that when using a Vector system, it should be installed on circular ring set.
I would love it if Ray tested the Vector 3 on none round chain rings. Very curious about what the numbers would look like.
As Shawn alludes to, they’d be inaccurate.
Vector (all variants) doesn’t account for non-round rings. There’s a Garmin Forum posts that have done the math to show roughly what the inaccuracy would be at various cadences.
Hi DC,
Have their been any updates to resolve the issue of accounting for Q or Oval rings?
I am looking at purchasing some power meter pedals and with running Q rings my bikes, there is the key factor in my decision?;)
No change.
Have never posted here before (though always enjoy reading), but I think many folks must have the same question as me, so I’ll ask it: is there any reason to get these over the much less expensive Assiomas? So far I see differences in the appearances of the pedals (subjective), battery mechanism (subjective), and Cycling Dynamics (subjective re: usefulness). I’ve got no horse in the race, but bypassed the recent BF deals on the Assiomas because I wanted to learn more about the Vectors before choosing (first PM purchase for me). (Would love DCR’s thoughts on this–may be wrong, but I sense diplomacy because the differences seem so subtle and a matter of personal preference–as well as others’.)
I think you’ve summarized the differences well.
And that’s honestly all it comes down to. Some don’t like the look of Assiomas, and some prefer varying battery technologies. The one minor one is the whole Zwift connectivity issue over BLE, which some Assioma buyers have been upset about (ANT+ is fine). But again, minor depending on your specific configuration.
But again – really just the differences you’ve outlined for the most part (aside from some varying tiny minor tech/sizing differences outlined in detail in the other post).
Thanks for the response. It’d be easier if there was a clear and compelling difference. I was hoping you might say that there was an obvious winner on build quality (though figured that assessment would take a year+) or that cycling dynamics had proved its worth as a training tool. But my sense is that it’s now a question of whether the slightly cleaner look of the Vectors is worth several hundred $$$ (we all put a lot of stock into the look of our bikes, so I guess it’s an honest choice).
IMHO this is rather a major issue with BLE and Strava+Zwift. I use my iPhone right on the bike and I see no point in using ANT when BLE is available.
I think it was an important design decision for Garmin to make the pedals appear as one BT device and to strive for the official BT certificate. Another positive point is the auto calibration. All settings seem to be available from the Garmin app (no need for a separate head unit). This is all well-considered by Garmin.
Looks or battery life are minor in my opinion. I really wanted to buy the Assiomas because of the price, but the unsolved BLE issues are a show-stopper for me. It will be the Vectors now, as soon as they are in stock.
Hi Chris,
Does the Phone is showing the power vaules live? Garmin Connect App?
I will use the pedals on my indoor trainer without a separate head unit. The power and U/min should be showed right away on my phone(Android).
Hello Ray:
Does include the Garmin Vector 3 weight the batteries?
Yes (merely because I always kept batteries in and rarely opened doors, except on the first test pair I had).
But still, I’ll triple-check tomorrow.
Glad I took a chance and got these before the in-depth review, actually just arrived and mounted them today.
Thanks for the RT Ray!
Might be worth mentioning the 2 different tension setting areas on the pedals? Looks like both bar and allen key tension adjustment.
Good call, will get some better pics of that tomorrow.
Thanks!
Nice review as always. thx!
On the “hands on” post/blog, there was quite a few people asking about upgrade/trade-in deals for existing V1 and V2 customers. Have you heard anything since? (guess you would have mentioned it) Could you poke Garmin for us??
I’m very close to the weight limit for the old Vectors, and if I got any decent amount of riding done, I’d trash at least one set of Vectors each season. On my 3rd or 4th set now. Not sure if it’s my fat legs or the wet and salty environment here in Denmark. But I’m not a happy Vector owner at all…
PS. Small typo: …you can turn off auto zero if you’d like to. This can be __down__ both on the head unit, as well as the mobile app.
Assume down=done?
Thanks!
No, I’m not aware of any trade-in deals at all (or talks of them). To be fair, Garmin has largely phased out such offers as a company in general (as have most tech companies these days I suppose). In the case of Vector 1 to 2, it was technically a simpler problem to solve. Whereas things are substantially different from a hardware standpoint in V3.
Thanks on the typo, fixed!
Now that they are making there pedal in house they should start focusing on a SPD version. That is the only if I have.
Anyone know why there *aren’t* SPD pedal power meters? Is it a licensing issue?
I have an issue where I tend to destroy the clip-but that is at the back of the pedal, specifically the part that clips in to the back of the cleat. It’s not clear to me why this happens – maybe I need to clean my cleats off more often? – but it happens pretty frequently. e.g. I just destroyed a set of pedals in about 7000 kilometers. So my question is, is this part servicable / replacable on these pedals?
Mine were delivered today but a bit disappointed the crows foot was no longer included. I had a set of Vector 2 pedals so I went out and bought a torque wrench to swap out as needed… Now I’m the other way around, have a torque wrench but no crows foot to install or swap… Staring at my pedals until I get a chance to stop by the LBS should be as fun as riding them.
Can you explain? Hard to understand for me.
Magnus had an old set of Vector 2 pedals. Those required a torque wrench, and in particular, a crows foot adapter for said torque wrench. Garmin initially didn’t include those in the box, but eventually did. All of which allowed for proper installation of the pedals, but was well beyond what you’d need to normally install pedals.
With Vector 3 you simply need a normal pedal wrench, which are widely and easily available (and what you’d need for many other pedals too). Magnus is simply noting that now he has an overkill tool of little use, versus the cheap and easily found tool.
Hmm, I received a reply from Garmin support saying that Vector 3’s still require specific torque and they sent me the link to the torque wrench and crow’s foot tool links. Maybe support hasn’t gotten the memo? The user guide also says to tighten to a specific torque.
Hi Ray!
I’ve got a pair of Vector 3 on pre order but I just can’t decide if I prefer the Assioma instead. Regarding durability, which ones do you think are the most durable? It does happen that pedals take a little beating, and it seems as though Favero’s design with the electronics being away from the pedal body would make them safer than the Vectors, where an impact would hit the electronics directly. What’s your take on that? There’s also the possibility to change the pedal body on the Favero’s where as I guess that the Vector’s electronics are so integrated that it is not possible on them, do you know?
I think they’re all pretty darn durable.
I’d actually argue the inverse – that Favero’s pod-design makes it more susceptible to damage, because the pods have a point that could also get damaged, versus being protected inside the pedal.
But ultimately, I’ve really seen no evidence of either design being a concern (either with Assioma or their previous generation bePro). With Vector 3 there will be service kits made available.
Speaking of service kit – fun fact I didn’t mention in the review: Vector 3 is designed so that all the electronics are in the spindle, enabling them to more easily consider other pedal body types down the road…
Ok! I’ll stick to Vector then, thanks for your reviews and the 10% discount at Clevertraining 🙂
A good point. Assioma and Vector are both user serviceable.
The Powertap P1 needs to be sent in for ~250USD, per their web site.
Hi Ray,
Is there anything thing that the Vector 3 will not push to the BOLT? In other words, is there an advantage to pairing the Vector 3 to the 520 or other Garmin computer rather then parking w/ my BOLT ? Thank you.
At this point in time, by reading Ray’s well researched reviews, the only thing you won’t get when using Vector 3 with a WAhoo Bolt is Garmin’s cycling dynamics information on the Bolt. Probably not a deal breaker for many people but worth a note. There is hope that Wahoo may implement cycling dynamics in the future now that garmin has opened them up for industry adoption (but that’s not a guarantee). At this time though, the advantage of using a Garmin 520 or similar from Garmin is the support for cycling dynamics.
Yup, Omar’s spot on.
I didn’t run Vector 3 with the BOLT to my knowledge on any of my more formal tests, so if there’s any unexpected quirks, I wouldn’t have caught them. I may have paired to it here or there on a ride, but can’t remember specifically.
I’ll probably try some Polar/Suunto via BLE units in the near future and add them in. With Polar you’ll get more detailed information on power meters than Suunto.
Suunto will only take a single BLE channel on SPARTAN. Polar should do both.
Might be useful for single channel BLE to clarify what power you get (doubled one side but which side and can you choose which side Or combined)
That’s the key difference though with Vector 3 compared to Assioma and PowerTap P1: It shows as a single channel (with both sides within it). It’s not just doubling like the others. Thus, it’ll actually work even better for Suunto which only accepts single channel.
Thank’s for great review Ray!
Any news on MTB (spd) version?
I use spd pedals on all my bikes (MTB, CX, road) and will be glad to by Vector3 in Shipman a600 or XTR shell
If you compare Vector 3 with prior versions, they look like beta products.
I like the elimination of pods and now you don’t need a torque wrench. I’d prefer to use an allen wrench, but it’s not a big deal. LR44 batteries are not as standard as AAA from powertap, but they last longer.
At last, pedal power meter are easily transportable/movable, but they are more exposed to falls and hits. It isn’t the best option for durability.
What’s the reason that there isn’t Shimano compatible pedal power meter on the market? I prefer Shimano cleats because they has a larger platform and are more durable than Look Keo ones.
Garmin Vector 2 can be used with Shimano Ultegra pedal body:
link to buy.garmin.com
Considering that I can easily find places that sell LR44 batteries for about 20 cents a pop, whereas the cheapest option I can find for SR44 is around 90 cents a pop (both AUD), I’d say it’s a good thing that Garmin have validated the LR44; I find it difficult to believe that the SR44 would last about five times longer than the alkaline option. If only I could bring myself to justify the upgrade from the Vector 2 … (sigh.)
Ray, appreciate you asking Garmin about the SR44/LR44. Remain curious why the LR is more consistent… but I’m sure I can figure out a way to get over that. 🙂
I’m a Garmin dealer and in speaking with them today regarding batteries they advised that the SR is the preferred battery. I wonder if something has changed in the past few days. I originally asked because Alkaline batteries (LR) leak while Silver Oxide (SR) don’t…and inside your $1000 pedals is not a good place for leaking batteries and I wanted to get their take as to preference between the two.
According to the Garmin web site, either LR or SR is fine. They state they haven’t tested the SR for battery life.
link to support.garmin.com
…but expect it to be longer, as the specs would indicate.
“SR44 batteries have not been tested for battery life however are expected to last longer that LR44 batteries.”
All interesting. I doubt it matters much, honestly. I’ve not seen issues with charged LR batteries leaking in storage. And the battery life is solid either way.
But then again I probably didn’t need to know my PCO is different between my left and right feet either..
These look fantastic, but I greatly favour SPD cleats (the MTB kind).
Is there a technical reason why nobody makes pedals with a power meter for SPD?
Hi Ray, thanks as usual for the useful review.
I’m considering your statement ‘…nor are any specific torque specifications required.’
Still, I DO see they’re recommending “25 lbf-ft or 34 N-m” on their quick-start guide (please, see picture #4 – link to media.dcrainmaker.com ).
All this reminds me of the old Vector 1 installing recommendations ( link to youtu.be ).
‘…hand tighten those [pedals]. Achieve a nice firm tightening of the pedal, but not over tighten. Pedals don’t need to be over tightened. And if you’d like to use a torque wrench to achieve that exact 25 lbf-ft or 34 N-m, _by all means_ do so…’
And we all know that a torque wrench was mandatory for a successfully installation of Vector 1 pedals.
I must say it won’t bother me as I already have such a torque wrench (I bought it a few months after Vectors 1 had arrived).
I just thought it would have been worth to point it out.
Ciao 🙂
P. S. Vector 3, here I come!
Yeah, I can say that they left it in there more as general guidance than anything else. In reality, there’s no reason for it, and they’ll more or less admit to the same thing when asked in a non-official capacity.
Great review, thanks
Terrific review. I’m still running my perfectly functional Edge 510, but have been shopping around for a power meter. Despite only the newer generation head units being listed as “compatible” with the Vector 3/3S’s, do you think I’d still be able to display power/cadence on that (minus all the cycling dynamics data)? There wasn’t much that I found on the Garmin forums.
They aren’t going to take a standard that has been in use since the original Vector and throw it out the window. Given that the original Vector transmitted cadence as well as power, and is listed as compatible with the Edge 510, I’m going to bet a significant sum of money against a single doughnut that the 3/3S will function in an identical fashion, at least as far as the 510 is concerned. You might miss out on some of the fancier, newer features (although the biggest is Bluetooth support – no big deal in this context), but if all I had was an Edge 510, I’d have absolutely no qualms about picking up the Vector 3.
link to www8.garmin.com
Thanks for the review Ray!
You mention that you tested with Stages. Any chance you can post the analyzer link for the Stages comparison?
Thanks!
Let me dig around a bit. I have a Stages arm on that bike for every ride, but don’t always bother to record it, since it’s left-only and thus isn’t super interesting from an accuracy standpoint.
I’ll dig back, as I recorded some rides in August and September with it.
Are there any limitations with oval chainrings? I recall there was an issue with high power readings in the vector 2 with oval chainrings.
See comment #7 and #8
Short answer: Not officially supported.
Ray, any idea of what the variances between the 2 & 3? I have the 2 on one bike and the 3 will be going on the other, once I receive it. (Looks like CleverTraining will be shipping them today). I just trying to figure out if the variance will be something I will have to worry about going forward.
Cheers
-marc
I wouldn’t expect to see any power accuracy variances (mostly because while I never bothered to write a full review of Garmin Vector 2, I also didn’t see any power accuracy issues with it either).
Thanks Ray.
So now the question is pedal vs crank power. Pedal has the advantage of being swappable but I have only one road bike running time pedals and a gravel bike with spds. If money wasn’t the first consideration, how would you compare vector 3 with the new shimano and 4iii dual power meters?
I have read all your indepth reviews and find them fascinating. Just about to part with some hard earned cash for a pair of power pedals. If it was your money vector 3’s or P1’s? Can’t see much in it now.
Ben:
I went through that same debate a back in the late spring. I ended up originally picking up the Powerbeats. After 8 weeks with nothing but issues with the Powerbeats, I was able to return them and switched to the Vectors.
I decided on the Vectors at that point because I was fulling invested in the Garmin ecosystem. I also felt that just having some of the metrics from the cycling dynamics would be interesting.
The P1s also provide some of the same additional metrics, but only if you use a Powertap computer. Since I didn’t want to replace my computer, the Vectors were a better choice.
If you are not after the additional metrics, then go with the one you can get the best deal on.
-marc
Agree with Marc.
Many thanks Ray for this very good and in-depth review.
It is greatly appreciated since l have been sitting on the fence over the last couple of weeks to decide on my next power meter.
As for Mark, I have been invested since several years in the Garmin ecosystem for cycling computers, tri-watches and over the last year and a half the Vector 2 (dual).
Overall, never had any problems with these things and I have been satisfied. Except for the Vectors for which I had to return two sets since my first purchase in August 2016.
The first one was defective after couple of weeks and was fully replaced by the LBS/supplier under Garmin’s warranty. The second one worked without flaws until early fall this year when I have started noticing a power output difference of 30 watts on average and much more higher during sprints when I installed the bike on the Kickr. Before that, the difference was 4 to 9 watts. Balance between the two legs was also way off.
This second set was also declared defective by Garmin’s supplier and available for full replacement with Vector 3 if I want to through the LBS. Not bad! 🙂
So, although I want to give Garmin a third chance with these pedals since I enjoy the dual pedal power, switch between bikes and cycling dynamic data, I do not want to experience a third time this kind of failure. Electronics is electronics after all and Garmin through its supplier here has stand behind its warranty policy which is a good thing. I could switch to the P1 which are bigger or a Stage/4iii but I am not a big fan of crank-based power meters.
This review is therefore helpful to help me decide on the next step.
Anyway, no more pods, torque requirements and several steps calibration procedure is a good start…
What do you think about pairing the V3 with a PC8? Doable? Not a hassle like with the V2?
Should pair just fine as an ANT+ power meter, assuming SRM aren’t doing anything funky in the specs.
If it was a hassle on V2, then honestly that’d be 100% SRM’s fault, since Vector follows the standards pretty clean-cutly (no other vendor has had issues there).
Thanks for the review. After reading around on the garmin forums I’ve become aware of a potential problem with the bearings so I’ve been watching every unboxing or review on youtube on the Vector 3.
For example:
link to youtube.com
On that video, from 8:40 to 9:10, the pedals appear to be way too tight. Let alone the potential fraction of a watt you’re losing because of that, I wouldn’t want to start off on a busy intersection or an incline with my pedal hanging around on that position.
What’s your take on this? How was your set when you first got them? Did they loosen up after a while? Anyone else had this problem?
I don’t remember it being like that on any units I unboxed. If only for the reason that for photo purposes that stickiness would actually make my life a million times easier – since it keeps the pedal perfectly level. 🙂
The very first shot in the review is from just after unboxing a pair (I take them then to look pretty still). So if it were level, it’s actually be a niftier photo. Sometimes I’ll hold it level with something just out of view.
I just installed mine today (ordered beginning of October…)
Turning the cranks they behave like in the video.
If I position the bulky part of the pedal at app. “10.30-11.30 o’clock” the pedals will balance themselves and stay in that position. Any higher or lower they will find their natural position in about 2 seconds.
All in all I find it nothing to worry about. I’d rather describe the feel of the resistance as snug and quality. Not grindy or over tightened. Actually I believe my ultegras were about the same when new, and now they “dangle” freely.
Problem with Stages is it drops connection with the Fenix 5 when I’m riding on the aero bars. Can I expect the same issues with Vector 3?
Honestly, nobody can tell you the answer to that. The challenge with the Stages issue is that it’s nearly 100% bike/human configuration dependent. For some people, no issues, for others, plenty of issues.
One tip: Some folks that are seeing Stages/Fenix 5 issues have it solved by switching over the BLE transmission from Stages to the Fenix 5.
That said, Garmin’s Vector team is incredibly aware of the Stages issue (the Vector team largely is based out of Canada, in the same building as ANT+/Dynastream). I suspect this is something they tested a boatload. But as always…never say never.
I don’t think that Vector 3 will have the same reception problems as Stages with Fenix 5, because both are Garmin products and they show Vector 3 as compatible device with Fenix 5.
If any problem should occur, Garmin should take care of that in warranty. Anyway, I think they should have tested it before releasing, as Ray says.
I ordered Vector 3 in Clever Training (thanks to Ray 10% discount) and I have a Fenix 5. When I receive them I can tell you more about how they perform.
Thanks Ray for your detailed in depth reviewed.
Thank you for your continued hard work. Your review helped me pull the trigger on these. Merry Christmas to me!
Just landed in Amsterdam from Kazakhstan and looking to get these. Notice you travel here often – any bike shop recommendations?
Honestly, it’s gonna be really hard to find one for at least the next few weeks unless you’ve pre-ordered somewhere (a while ago). It sounds like inventory will probably catch-up around mid-December.
Of course, sometimes you might just luck out by calling various local bike shops in Amsterdam and one might randomly have a unit that came in for a customer that then cancelled a unit…but I think it’s gonna be tough. 🙁
Great review as always!
Interesting to hear that Garmin are now manufacturing the pedal bodies in-house; do you think Garmin will release a Shimano SPD-SL compatible pedal body at some point in the future?
Years ago after the acquisition they talked about other pedal types that wanted to go into….and it never happened.
But I think they’re in a much different (more mature) position than they were however many years ago that was. Both from a product standpoint, but also a manufacturing standpoint.
Thanks for reply!
Garmin, if you’re reading this, please make an SPD-SL compatible pedal body!
I sent an email to Garmin support asking this very same question. They replied with the below:
Regarding your question we have no updates on if that will ever come to fruition. This year on the V3 we designed our own pedal instead of using the Exustar body. So pending the market need and response we got from the Vector 2 Shimano kit, it may be easier for Garmin to do since in house design. But as of now no information.
The curious question is if you can use a CR1/3N battery instead of the stacked LR44 batteries? Then it would be lithium instead of alkaline.
The CR1’s capacity is ~160mAh per : link to mouser.com
LR44 is ~175mAh per : link to data.energizer.com
While not a perfectly accurate comparison, the capacity is roughly equal. Yet the cost of the CR1 is a good bit higher (14USD for both pedals vs ~1.20USD). Other than longer shelf life I’m not sure what the benefits of the CR1 would be.
Have the P1 pedals, but thinking of selling/buying vector 3 for the increased clearance (one of my bikes has a super low bottom bracket. Also the better compatibility with regular look cleats (I have found the PowerTap P1 stock ones are prone to breakage). Saving 100 grams. Cycling dynamics. Running look keos on my indoor trainer bike and running these on the outside bike.
The battery choice seemed silly at first, but the chance to have different bodies in the future would be nice. I’m guessing this means potentially Shimano, but one can always dream for Speedplay-esque.
Hi,
thx for the great review!
Why would I choose a power based pedal like vector 3 over another system like power2max NGeco? looking out for a power meter but don’t know what’s more interesting.. Price for my setup would be pretty identical (need new crank for p2max). swappability between bikes isn’t an issue..
The main reason to purchase a pedal based power meter is really portability between bikes. The secondary reason to purchase a dual sensing unit is for accurate left/right metrics.
For what you’re saying, I don’t see much of a reason for you to go with Vector 3 over the NG ECO.
Hi Ray,
Stupid question. My stationary bike computer is broken. Can i use the Vector 3 to replace it? Kinda thought might as well hit two birds with one stone. Thanks
You could (assuming the bike just uses standard crank arm that have removable pedals). Just be aware that you won’t get speed from them. You’ll get power and cadence though.
Hi Ray – I am looking at the data sets and checking how the units compare in terms of mean max power at the 20 minute mark. All of the outside rides you did in October look pretty good, within 5 watts @ around 240 so well within spec. All the rides you did in November look a lot more suspect. I think the dropout issue you mentioned with the P2Max explains why that unit is reading low, but also the G3 looks significantly more variable in the November data.
Can you think of any reason why this might be?
Indeed, the P2M dropout issue complicates some of those data sets. But I’m not seeing anything obvious/of note with respect to the G3. Which specific data set and/or time?
On 10/25, 10/15, 10/9 10/4 the G3 and the Vector3 are within 1 watt at 20 minutes Mean Max Power – looks impressive almost like the Wattbike sets. On 11/5 the G3 and vector are 15 watts apart at 20 mins MMP i.e. one of the units out of spec. On 11/19 they are about 6 watts apart so just about in spec but not as impressive as the rides from October.
It looks like it’s good through about half-way into the workout, and then you see a bit of a slight shift after that point on the G3 vs Vector 3. I’d say the P2M and G3 agree, which they shouldn’t, which means that likely the G3 went slightly higher than it should of.
Could have been anything from a weird autozero or something else. Not sure.
Keep in mind that in theory, we actually shouldn’t have Vector 3 and the G3 identical (or within a watt or two). Ideally we’d be talking 5-8w of difference, with Vector 3 higher. Assuming PowerTap doesn’t slightly skew their numbers higher on their hubs…
Thanks Ray, that makes sense, I came to a similar conclusion that the Vector 3 looks the more solid of the 3 units in terms of accuracy but it takes a bit of reading between the lines. I have a couple of G3’s and now and again they do seem to glitch on the offset by up to 15 watts or so easy for me to believe that the G3 was slightly out. (Would be interesting to know if PowerTap do build in a fudge factor for the drive train!)
At the moment Vector 3’s are notable by their absence in the UK but I will take a punt on a set once they do show up here – hope that the 1% accuracy claim stands the test of time….
I recently installed my vector 3 pedals and they seamlessly paired with my edge 520, yet I can not seem to pair them to my Garmin mobile connect app on my phone. Also as you pointed out there are two different numbers on the pedals. Does it matter which one I use when attempting to pair? Also on the left pedal it’s one digit less than the right pedal. Is that right? The app asks for the seven digits so I assume it should be the right pedal. I’m “waking” them up and can see the green light but nothing. The app states it can’t find the pedals. Is there something I am not doing?
You should only be seeing a single number on Edge 520, not two numbers. That’d imply that the two aren’t linked.
As for the app not finding them, I’m not entirely sure on how to troubleshoot that. I know Garmin is monitoring the comments here, but it may be faster to hit them up on the Garmin Forums for Vector, which they are hyper-aware of.
See procedure to pair with Garmin connect starting at 1:30 min mark in this video:
link to youtu.be
You must use the left pedal (this is the master pedal) to pair with the phone.
The app asks for seven digits and the left pedal only has six digits. Is that right?
My pedals start with a 0, thus making it 7 digits.
But a weird thing is, that the number on the left pedal is nothing like the one reported on my Edge 1000 and the apps I’m using, which shows only 5 digits.
(Entering the 7 digits stamped on the left pedal into the “control [kickr] with ant+ power meter” field in the wahoo Fitness app automatically converts the stamped 7 digit number to the 5 digits ant+ number)
I just found the answer to my own speculation of different ANT+ IDs.
Apparently Garmin is rolling out a new 20bit ID format.
Details:
link to forums.garmin.com
Hi Ray,
I recently received a pair of Vector 3’s and have done a few rides inside using Zwift comparing the Vectors power readings with the Tacx Neo using your analyzer software. I have found the Vectors to be running consistently lower than the Neo. Here is a public link to the charts: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Have you seen similar things when you have used the two devices and do you think I should be concerned about this consistent and pretty sizable difference?
Thanks and I truly appreciate your hard work keeping us all informed,
Matthew Loggie
Hi Ray,
Love your work.
Great review as usual.
If one bought a pair of Vector3s, do you know if it would be possible to use the left and right pedals separately on 2 different bikes with separate head units?
I like the idea if having L & R Power but bring able to use as 2 separate meters would help justify the cost over the single sided option.
David
Actually Ray states that it’s not possible in the review (just below the first picture of an Edge 1000)
Ray, do you have any idea why this is so?
Sorry, I meant below an Edge 1030..
In Garmin’s topology, the left pedal is considered the master/primary pedal, and thus is required. Some companies have failover type topologies (such as 4iiii with their dual cranks), though that’s more the exception than the rule.
Oh,
Thanks.
I thought I read that if either pedal’s battery went flat then the other pedal could keep working on its own as a one sided meter.
DOH. That’s quite clearly stated, isn’t it.
Serves me right for trying to check this on my phone before posting my question.
and then finding I can’t edit my last reply so I have to waste everyone’s time with a 2nd post to apologise for wasting everyone’s time with redundant questions. 😉
Really great review (as always)!
I finally received my Vector 3s this week and I have a question that I am hoping Ray or someone else can help with. For triathlon races I keep my shoes on the bike in transition for a faster T1. To practice how I race I always leave my shoes on my bike. This also saves wear on the cleats.
My question is whether or not I can calibrate the Vector 3s with my shoes clipped in or do I need to always disengage the shoes, calibrate Vector 3s, and then reengage the shoes before I start my ride with a standard running start. Thanks in advance for the guidance!
The main issue with this would be auto-zero, which could occur when your bike is in transition with the shoes attached. The weight of the shoes would affect the balance but not the total power being reported.
So make sure auto-zero is disabled before your event. Do a manual zero calibration with the shoes detached, the night before you race, and you should be good to go.
“Garmin hasn’t yet released the firmware to the public for the Bluetooth Smart power transmission pieces.. early January for release” would imply you can’t yet use the Vector 3’s with Zwift on an iPad (i.e. only Ant+, unless you have some sort of conversion)? If so, is Garmin still on target for a January release?
That’s correct, without some sort of conversion (hardware based) – no go.
My understanding is that it’s still on target.
Any news on the BLE firmware update yet?
I just read some of the BLE connection posts on the Garmin forums
link to forums.garmin.com
and they are starting to worry me. Some users are having problems connecting to their pedals with Garmins GCM software. This looks like a chicken-and-egg problem. How do I update the BLE firmware with my iPhone (and without owning a Garmin head unit) when I am not able to connect to the pedals? Would it be recommended to wait for new units to come out, which already have the new firmware installed?
Nothing has changed there, still on target as far as I know.
I think Shane figured out the silly workaround is to simply pair it to a head unit first, and then you’re good to go via the phone. I don’t know if that would trigger on a brand new pairing via a non-Garmin unit, though my assumption is yes. Obviously, no idea why it’s doing that, but it appears Garmin is active in that thread trying to see what’s going on. I suppose most of us know of a friend somewhere that has a Garmin to get it to wake up if all else fails until they can sort out a better workaround for those seeing the issue. :-/
It’s been released FYI!
Indeed, full post here on it: link to dcrainmaker.com
Well, just installed my spanking new Vector 3s from Clever Training and tested them out on Zwift for a short spin. All seems in order.
Been using the Powertap P1 for the last year, probably going to switch those to my wife’s bike for her, and see how things go with the V3s. Hate having to use a pedal wrench versus just a simple hex tool though, obviously because of the location of the indicator lites no way around that.
Since I was lazy I kept my cleats for the P1’s on which seems to sort of work with the garmin, though I threw on the new cleats on another pair of shoes i had and they seem to be a far cleaner fit with the pedal. I seemed to pop out here and there with the wellgo cleats. Not terrible, just had to be a little careful.
I just installed a new set of Garmin Vector 3 pedals. I was surprised to see how much friction there seems to be in the bearings. Unlike the Shimano pedals that I just removed, you cannot spin these petals around with your fingers. They turn slowly, like they are moving through a dense liquid. Place them in a level position and let go, and they take about 4 seconds for the heavier heel end to fully drop. It makes me wonder how many watts will be lost due to this extra friction. I found similar complaints by other purchases on the Garmin site. Does anyone else see this as a problem?
I noticed the same friction in mine, initially wondered if it was a problem with the pedals, but didn’t really feel any issues while actually pedaling itself. Maybe someone else can clarify why this is the case or if there is a break in period here.
I found this thread on the Garmin site:
link to forums.garmin.com
Apparently, because the pedals contain sensitive electronics, Garmin had to install waterproof seals at the spindle. Those seals impart a level of friction that you would not tolerate in a normal bike pedal. Does that really matter? If the impact is 1/10 of a watt, it should be ignored. If the impact is 5 watts, that’s unacceptable. I would like Garmin to share data to put this issue to bed.
The bearing seals in Vector 3, to ensure water resistance, do create the feeling of more pedal stiffness when moved by hand. The drag is minimal when moving and causes no significant penalty in wattage while riding. The consequential power loss is less than a ¼ watt total.
Shawn@Garmin, thank you for clarifying.
Hi Ray,
I went out for a couple of spins with the V3, did an FTP test, that was quite similar to my results with vector 2S, so in general I was satisfied, however:
-During the first rides I just torqued the pedals with a small wrench and they showed 50-50, 49-50 and so…balance
-After this they started to loose, so I realized I made a mistake not torquing them harder -» torqued them not gorilla tight, but about the advised torque with my big wrench
-Started to realize that the balance gone far to my right (43-57, 44-56)
-Did a static calibration and the left was 0,999 of the expected the right 0,89…I guess this is not normal. I don’t want do always static calibrations, do you think it is warrant to a replacement?
Hi Frank-
That’s weird, in general when you pedal on a bike the pedals will actually get tighter, so it’s odd they got looser. :-/
On the static calibration, can you clarify the procedure you used?
Cheers.
Te static torquing that garmin advices: put on a 11 or more weight. Measure twice the shown NM on garmin. Average and calculate the expected value weight*9,81*cranklength
Update: Removed the pedals, wiped off a bit of grease from the threads, torqued them snug by hand with a smaller wrench…just for feeling, not NM 🙂
I was worried a bit, because the static torque test showed negative values on the right, but the left was spot on.
I rod a bit on the rollers, one legged, both legs, different effort.
Performed the static test again and now both sides were spot on, within 0.01 of the expected value on both sides.
So honestly…I think it was the too much grease. And now not just Ray confirms, but I do as well: No need to torque them to 40NM anymore, just have them snug.
I finally received my set of V3 a couple of days ago, I had some similar anomalies so far. Bit too early to tell for sure, but they seem to need a bit of bedding in after swapping bikes (Ray’s method of performing a couple of sprints after fitting seems wise)
In my case, I set off for a road ride comparing the V3 with a PT G3. All looked OK then the V3 started showing much higher readings than the PT. Stopped an did a re-calibrate, problem went away. V3 reading around 8-10 watts higher than the PT which is completely expected with a chain in shocking condition like mine.
Changed them to a different bike today to do a short test against my Stages. This time the PT was reading far to low. Again the pedals were nice and tight, repeated the test after a new calibration and ended up with exactly the results I expected.
In both cases during the period with suspicious results my L-R balance was way off indicating to me that one or other of the pedals was having an issue until the re-calibration.
I will be keeping a close eye on this over the next few rides as the reason for going this route it ease of swapping between bikes and accuracy.
Having decided to go with the Vector 3 rather than Quarq I am having similar issues. A number of times I’ve calibrated before setting off and had crazy l/r imbalance. Re-calibrating seems to correct that but the power readings just don’t look right afterwards with maximum effort up climbs producing readings well below FTP. As I don’t have another power meter I’m relying on feel and HR to judge but I know what a 10 mile TT effort feels like and I’ve put in harder efforts than that, producing a high HR and power readings at least 60watts below FTP. Today a 1 1/2 hr ride produced an I’m using a Wahoo Bolt so would like to try a Garmin unit and do some turbo sessions before contacting the retailer. Any suggestions welcome.
Yesterday I swapped the pedals to my TT bike on the turbo, no issues at all, swapped back to my winter bike today and again had some inconsistent results vs my Powertap G3 before the pedals settled down.
The only think I can think of is that they just need some time to bed in – not ideal, they are after all marketed as easy to swap between bikes. I did them up pretty firm so I really don’t think that torquing them any harder will really help.
This was a 2 hour steady ride. when I set off and readings from the V3 looked too high so I re-calibrated after about 4 minutes (later analysis showed l/r balance out of wack also). Set off again, this time the V3s were reading too low (again later analysis showed l/r balance out, this time the other way around though). Another re-calibration at around 8 minutes and things started to look better until around 30 minutes in when I saw things drifting again. Another re-calibration at around 34 minutes and everything looked exactly as expected for the rest of the ride, V3 reading 3-5 watts higher than the PT which it should do if both are reading correctly.
Here is the comparison for those who are interested:
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
I will do another ride Thursday without touching the pedals, hopefully I will see good accurate results from the outset this time (otherwise time to be concerned).
In my case, it is also happening the same things. With the Garmin (820) unit I have about 40-60w less, with the Wahoo Bolt unit it’s all right. I can not explain it.
See the segment at the picture!
Any chance you have the two .FIT files to download? It’d help tell the story of what’s going on. Or, you can upload them yourself using the Analyzer: link to dcrainmaker.com
Makes it super easy to pin-point where the discrepancy is form (head unit or power meter).
Has anyone reported any reliability issues with the Vectors? I had the first type and ended up getting my money back under warranty so am wary. Also considering the Quarq Dzero but the ease of changing bike with the Vectors is tempting – can they take the odd knock in case of an occasional ‘off’ or would you consider them prone to crash damage?
Reliability/consistency and portability are my priorities. I have a Cannondale BB30a frame and a BSA frame and Quarq advise with Rotor BSA/BB386 bearings I can move the powermeter between bikes, obviously swapping pedals is easier but would swapping cranks be straightforward or a pain?
Hi James.
I bit like you I had reliability issues with my Vector 2 and about 6 months ago switched to a Quarq Four. The Quarq has been fantastic and has been totally reliable and I now have 100% confidence in my power meter on every ride. What a difference!!!!!
I swap the Quarq between 2 bikes. Both Specialized road bikes which required an adapter to convert the press fit BB to GXP. Initially the adapters were a bit tight and moving the Quarq was a pain. However after ever so slightly sanding the inner surface of the adapter the Quarq can now be moved by hand without the need for a rubber mallet and the whole process from start to finish honestly takes no more than 5 mins to do methodically & carefully. This is faster than I could change my Vector 2 but obviously not as quick as Vector 3.
So for me I am very happy to stay with the reliability and confidence of the Quarq as I think I have just had too many bad experiences with my Vector 1 and 2 upgrade kit. I contacted Quarq before purchasing and they said “no problem with moving from bike to bike on a frequent basis”.
Just sharing my perspective but obviously others will have equally valid and different experiences.
Good luck either way with what ever you go for.
Hi Karl, that’s very helpful – thanks very much. Edging closer to the Quarq!
Do keep in mind that the core changes made to Vector 3 were largely focused on addressing some of the issues seen in Vector 1/2.
Of course, it’s far too soon to know about long term reliability on Vector 3.
Good point, but I still can’t decide for some reason. As I have no particular pedal/cleat allegiance and have eTap and the Cannondale SiSl2 cranks on my Supersix it’s hard to overlook the Vectors. But if they are that good why buy anything else unless you are set on another pedal system? Price wise there’s nothing in it once you add chainrings, except you get a top of the range crankset plus powermeter instead of a set of pedals plus powermeter!
I guess from your comment you’d be tempted towards the Vectors?
Main advantage of a Quarq or similar at this point (ignoring any hypothetical reliability items), would be pedal type choice as noted (inclusive of pedal format as well as things like stack height/weight/etc…), as well as slightly more cornering capability (for those that care about that in races).
Like a lot of other people, I think Garmin has finally found the product they were aiming for three generations ago. And within that, I think it’s going to do what people thought it’d do half a decade ago. The challenge they have now though is undoing all those perceptions from half a decade or so’s worth of internet comments about not just Vector 1/2, but also various perceptions on the PowerTap P1/etc…
Hello Ray, I may have missed it but I see Questions circling but not asked that I have seen. That being, what about Bearing servicing,adjustment and replacement issues? Your site is the first I’ve read about the Garmin Vector 3. Your reviews are very informative, thanks for that.
See this link at the Vector 3 Garmin Forum:
link to forums.garmin.com
Also direct link on servicing Vector 3 from Garmin’s Manual:
link to www8.garmin.com
And lastly, here is a Youtube video link on how to service the pedals:
link to youtube.com
I wonder if this multi-tool can be used to unscrw the pedals ?
It (the one linked) can unscrew them, but as with any super small tool, you’ll get slightly less leverage.
Thanks for the review Ray! I am going to get them ordered when my powertap p1 are returned (I had very weird issues of balance inaccuracy or battery caps not working)
I wish I could order them with your affiliate link on Amazon! Clevertraining (UK) returns policy don’t seem as easy as the Amazon one for european (France) based customers!
CT UK returns are pretty straight forward, I know a few users have done stuff over the last year and nobody has had any issues. Thanks for the support!
Hmm, that’s not look good: link to youtube.com
“power tap P1” vs “Tacx Neo” -> OK
“vector 3” vs “Tacx Neo” – > more than 3% difference
Drive train losses can be explanation but then “power tap P1” is not accurate?
As always, when using 2 power meters, you never know which is right.
In my case above, I only saw a +/- 3% difference, which is inline with expectations. I don’t know what occurred in that one section on his trainer ride where the two differed by more than that. It’s odd it only occurred for that section (which was flat and relatively easy). While typically I’d side with the Neo, I also saw a case a month or so ago in a different power meter review of mine where the Neo did actually have an off section as easily demonstrated by three other power meters.
Unfortunately, this is the fun and often confusing reality of power meter testing.
Honestly, I’m using the v3-s for 2 weeks now. It is consitent (the data was almost inline with the v2s, apart that it is more accurate due to stronger right leg), I did static calibrations as well, both pedals are spot on the expected value (maybe a few 0.1 Nm difference). The pedals are much more stable than v2 , the data is stable (no sudden zeros, no strange peaks, lows). All in all, what I feel in my legs , that is reflected well on the screen, always. 🙂
Ray, took delivery of my vector3s today and after fitting did a 20 km ride on zwift. Delighted with them and a big thank you to you for the reviews and accessibility (answering questions). It has given me confidence to buy through informed decision making.
Thanks again,
Chris
Very informative review, Ray. Seems like the power aspect of the V3s are pretty spot on, but just wondering how they are as actual pedals? I had to stop using Look pedals because of their creaking, and I can’t stand noise coming from the bike. Do the V3s creak, given they seem to be using Look cleats? Also, can you swap the spindles onto Shimano SPD-SL pedals as with the previous version?
Thanks again.
No swappage at this point, though Garmin has left the possibility open. You’ll probably remember that last time it was some time down the road before the Shimano swap-out option was announced/available.
No creaking from my Vector 3 units, though, at only 4 or so months in, perhaps that’s too soon (then again, I’ve never had any pedals creak).
Great testing and review, as always.
This time, I am trying to find out which power meter would be best on a new road bike: the Vector 3, or the Stages LR UltegraDi2. Any thoughts? Which performs best after 30,000 km? Is maintenance (replacing driver gear wheel) an issue with Stages?
Thanks.
Honestly, nobody will know after 30,000KM of riding yet. Vector only started shipping this fall, and Stages LR hasn’t started shipping yet.
Did today a test to calm everybody down, and let Shane know that his device or his tacx might be faulty:
did a couple tests on 200W with 90 rpm and a few above 200 ones with 100 rpm:
link to prntscr.com : overview
link to prntscr.com : zoomed into the 200W efforts
link to prntscr.com zoomed into the 250-300W efforts
link to prntscr.com: cadence
link to prntscr.com : left/right
apart from that I can’t pedal smoothly: Yes….occasionally happens that for a point in time the difference between the two is 10W, but in general, even around 300W-s they are within 4-5W.
We did a couple tests and garmin is consistent, when the pedaling is smooth the rpm is consistent (so the tacx does not have to compensate) the data is totally OK and within the error range.
Hey Ray – thanks for the fantastic reviews! I was super pumped to get my vectors in last week, but am somewhat equally deflated to discover upon installation that they are still Bluetooth dumb and won’t be working with my trainer set up until firmware is released at some point in the future..
Egg on my face for not catching the consequences of your firmware update note you added to the post above about this topic. It may be worth calling a little more attention to the fact so folks getting these as a holiday gift can have their expectations set accordingly. And it irks me that Garmin is marketing these as dual ant+/ble capable, when that’s not yet the case..
Perhaps you could throw an asterisk in where you mention at the top that the pedals are Bluetooth capable? I’m hoping Garmin is getting plenty of pressure to get the cert pushed through and out of beta. I chatted with them earlier and they had no firmware release timeline they were willing to give me.
No problem, added a pile of asterisks and bolding around that section and in the intro.
Cheers!
Any update on when Bluetooth is going to work? Bought these as I love cycling dynamics but it really sucks they come without BT enabled… hoping its not too far away especially when its on the box 🙁
Hi, I received my V3 pedals a couple of days ago and so far have only used them indoors on Zwift. Everything seems good, except my pedals seem to lose connection very quickly when you stop pedalling.
A specific example: on Zwift, the mountain route – near the top there is a short downhill before the final push to the finish line. I freewheeled down that slope (estimated 5-6 seconds) then started pedalling as the road flattened out and then ramped up, however my power stayed at zero for about 2 seconds (with the watts & cadence greyed out) – after this delay connection was re-established. This happened a few other times on the ride in similar situations.
I assume this is a power-saving feature and is of less concern outdoors, however indoors it’s quite frustrating.
Has anyone else experienced anything similar, or know of a workaround?
Thank you.
Hmm, that’s odd. How far away is your USB stick to your bike?
Hi Ray, the USB stick is on an extension cable, so the sensor rests on the floor just under the non-drive side chain stay. There were no power drop-outs during normal riding, so the signal strength seems ok.
Thanks.
Hi great review, a question
I have resently tranfered from Shimano SPD SL to the set look(a like) who followed my 3mnth old Powertap P1. They have some special cleats which I think is floating around in the pedal (+/-6%?) – I will for my next set of pedals go for the Garmin Vector 3 but I’m not sure if Powertap cleats will fit the Garmin pedals and can I for the Garmin use ordinanary look keo? Can ordinary look keo fit the Powertap?
br Lars
I was too lAzy to switch off my p1 cleats for the keo ones on one pair of my shoes and they sort of work anyway. A little less secure than using the keo compatible cleats that came with the v3 as I found when I put those cleats on my other set of trainer shoes.
Hi – Thx for yet another great test. 🙂
I am having the pleasure of riding these Vector 3 pedals, and has dicovered a problem in the POC, (Platform Offset Centerline), where I see that you also seem to have some problems. On your results you have 8 & 7 mm. offset whick is pretty much and for me it is even worse as I have 10 & 8 mm despite that I have tryed to place the cleats as far away from the pedalarmside as possible which should bring the offset to the smalles value or maybe to a negative offset. This also means that the Q factor will be higher and therefore a cause for knee problems. Do you have any solutions or have you heard if Garmin are aware of this issue? Thx.
Q factor doesn’t cause knee problems, ask any fat bike owner.
Why do you think a positive PCO is a problem, what research have you read to support this?
Moving cleats will not change your PCO, if anything moving your cleats towards the outside of the shoe will make PCO larger. PCO is simply the way you push down with your foot, you can easily change it by pressing down with the inside of your foot – I can make mine -15 up to +15 very easily and consistently. Historically though, forcing your body to do unnatural movements has not been awesome from an injury perspective.
Ray mentions the dubious usefulness of cycling dynamics on a regular basis – well OK maybe he says it more politely by refering to the lack of research, but still there’s no way to tell what is better or worse.
link to bike-components.de
Nothing bad about the pedals…on pair with dzero
I’m having a consistent problem with my new vector 3 pedals and the Edge 520… Since getting the Vector 3’s, my Edge 520 silently turns off about every 6 miles. It never did this before pairing with the Vector 3’s. My Forerunner 920XT does not exhibit this problem. All software/firmware on both the Vector 3’s and Edge 520 are current.
I contacted Garmin support and they asked me to download my 520 history files and send it to them. I did this a few weeks ago, and Customer Support said that Engineering is now looking into it.
Anybody else having this issue with the Vector 3 and Edge 520?
I’m starting to feel like a Beta tester.
thanks
Paul
If it’s ‘about’ every 6 miles, that almost sounds like it might be failing every 10KM, which almost sounds like perhaps there’s some sort of alert/autolap/something that’s triggering every 10KM causing a crash.
Either way, I’d bet pretty strongly it’s not Vector, but rather an update or similar that got to your Edge 520 that’s causing it. It would be interesting to go for a quick drive with your Edge 520 and see if it triggers a failure at the 6mi marker again.
Thanks for the quick reply on the Vector 3 / Edge 520. I’ll try de-pairing with my 520 and see if the shutdowns continue. With respect to some sort of auto-lap shutdown, the events may be a bit too random for this, but software issues escape me. To elaborate on perhaps some boring chronology, I received my Vector 3’s from Clever Training on 12/7. Most data is from commutes to/from work, which, depending on route, is about 16 miles each way. Note the miles between shutdowns and the occasional successful ride to completion:
12/8 AM: 17.25 miles – no issue
12/10 AM: 7.14 miles – shutdown
5.47 miles – shutdown
19.46 miles – ride end (no shutdowns for over 19 miles)
12/11 AM: 6.26 miles – shutdown
5.47 miles – shutdown
2.45 miles – ride end
12/11 PM: 5.70 miles – shutdown
5.88 miles – shutdown
1.23 miles – ride end
12/12 AM 6.34 miles – shutdown
9.10 miles – ride end
12/12 PM 15.8 miles – ride end (worked the whole ride home!)
12/14 AM 5.89 miles – shutdown
6.11 miles – shutdown
1.19 miles – ride end
12/15 AM 5.48 miles – shutdown
5.86 miles – shutdown (didn’t turn back on)
12/15 PM 5.36 miles – shutdown
4.97 miles – shutdown (didn’t turn back on)
Thank you for the details Paul. I can confirm we are investigating reports of shutdowns when the Edge 520 is paired with Vector 3. We will reach out to you through our support channel once we have a resolution. Apologies for the frustration.
I installed a beta software update from Garmin into my 520, and after several weeks of use with it, it appears to have resolved the random shutdown problem I was having when using the Vector 3 with the Varia radar.
Top review again Ray!
Just about to pull the trigger and buy a set but before i do can i ask a couple of questions?
Are the shutdown problems only between the vector 3 and the garmin 520? Or are other gps computers affected?
Shane miller had to connect his to his 520 before he could apply the latest updates. If you have a Wahoo elemnt would this stop you applying updates?
Finally, I know the cleats are look compatible but do you know what make and model they are as I have heard they are rebadged exustar.
Thanks
1) Shutdown’s: I haven’t heard of other units impacted, but then again, the one individual above is I think the only instance of it occurring.
2) Updates: Not sure there, the theory is you’d be able to update via the mobile app, though I think Garmin is looking into why that’s not triggering for some people (I opened up a new pair the other day, and the mobile app found it just fine before i ever contacted it with a Garmin head unit).
3) Correct, they are Exustar ARC2 cleats (you can make it out in the picture), but are fully Look Keo compatible, so you can use Keo cleats if you prefer.
Thanks for the reply and info.
Just ordered a set!!
Thanks again Ray.
Hi Ray,
Are you aware of any implemented beta functionality or plans for a >60Hz sample rate using Bluetooth once the Bluetooth capable firmware arrives?
Thanks
JP
Hello:
Although not available yet, in http://www.bike.discount.de the Garmin Vector 3 are announced at a price of 840 EUR: link to bike-discount.de
wgere you can orde for 840€?
…?
In this link: link to bike-discount.de I can see the Vector 3 at a price of 840.33 €, but marked as “not available”
Which country did you choose? Perhaps Serbia? If yes then you need to pay custom? If I choose Slovenia it’s 1025€, if Germany 999€
Oh, I apologize. You are right, I had a wrong country (Russia) to delivery and it was the reason I saw 840 €
On the other hand, link to powermeter24.com has a 10% discount coupon for pedal-bases powermeters now for Christmas. The code is PM24_Voucher_XMAS17
Fwiw, so does Clever Training. For EU folks they can use http://www.Clevertraining.co.uk and the DCR discount code (DCR10BTF), and the US folks can get 10% off most things and 10% back in points on the remainder at just http://www.clevertraining.com – all of which support the site here.
Hello:
Has anyone measure the nut thread total length (from extreme to extreme) in the Vector 3. I would like to check if I will need the washer spacer or not. I’ve searched in the Garmin Vector 3 user’s guide but there is not such data. I add a picture with the measure I’m looking for
Nobody has measured this length?
It is approximately 15.5mm
Thank you very much!
Hi Ray,
Like always I very much enjoy reading your reviews. Your site is the first I go to when buying some new technology for bike or running (got the Kickr and the FR35 after reading your in debt reviews).
I’m now on the market for a power meter and very much like the look of the vector 3 pedals. The only concern I have is the tests Shane Miller (Daily Lama) has conducted where he found discrepancies when using ERG mode where the new vectors seem to read a lot higher. I’ve followed his thread and Garmin has replied to his comments but yet not found the reason why the vectors were doing this. As Shane is using your software and I’ve seen him mention you occasionally, I wouldn’t be surprised you are aware of his issue with the pedals? If you do, what is your take on it? And have you experienced anything like it when using ERG mode for a constant effort (e.g. sweet spot work,…)
Kind regards
Kristof
Yup, aware of it, and been chatting with Lama about it as well.
Neither of us (nor apparently Garmin) are clear why it’s happening to him. Be it a certain use case with his hardware (other pieces), his Vector units, or something else.
It’s actually not seen in my files. The differences shown in my files are all within spec. Definitely following it though (though, I haven’t seen anyone else show the same, hopefully we’ll have clarity soon).
Ray – Just received my V3 units and noticed the battery covers behave differently on each pedal. On the right hand side the cover screws closed to a stop. On the left hand side, it screws closed to just beyond finger tight then, on further tightening it loosens slightly and goes around the final tightening circle again – and so on. When left at max screw-in, the LHS is sitting snug, so not sure if this is a manufacturing defect or something to be worried about. Any advice?
Philip- Please reach out to us at social@garmin.com, mention my name in the email and that I asked to have you contact us about your battery covers. Thank you.
Gonna try to be brief. Seek your input based of what follows:
Which power pedal for what I desire (Favero Assioma, Garmin Vector 3, Powertap P1)?
Not sure what I will do in 2018 in the way of specificity. I desire to capture data for left and right pedal strokes to assist in understanding bike fit (cleats forward/back, seat up/down, slide forward on seat and slide back, to shimming a cleat. The additional pedaling analytics GPR,GPA, Power Phase… is welcome to the power balance and pedal smoothness.
Most of the time will be spent on the trainer for each bike. I even desire to see what occurs on my mountain bike when I change the link on my full suspension to adjust the degree of head tube angle and setting up my hardtail. Of course I will be wearing road shoes and hopefully understand bike fit better when I get to this trial.
What would I see on a Garmin 502 head unit when using Favero Assioma and Powertap P1?
I’m thinking my goal is to see the power phase and is this only available with Garmin Vector3 and Garmin Cycling Dynamics? Is it viewable with Powertap P1 with or without their app? Will Favero Assioma offer anything more than an accurate watt number?
You might say that this is over kill. But with the mindset of the least amount of the most effective exercise at the appropriate time leads to the time counting. I have had bike fits and read as much about them as there is on power meters.
I am now at a place where I can satisfy me after reading your power meter articles. I see the discounts you mention available from using the code. It looks like Clever Training also has another 10% available???
Getting the Garmin Vector3 pedals within $100 of the Favero Assioma almost settles the issue.
You may tell me that I am going about this all wrong.
I welcome your reply.
No hex key removal. Compared with better look cleat compatibility. Want to swap a single pedal frequently and have both Park spanner and their pedal hex key. Much prefer the hex key (Assioma). How big a deal do you find this Ray when swapping daily?
How do the cranks look after being assaulted by that big blue spanner on a daily basis?
Hi.
Really love the site in general and this review in particular.
Do you have updated info on transmission of Power data using Bluetooth?
All the best
Kristian, Norway
Hi Kristian,
Just checked with Garmin now and they say that BT Smart is still in testing with an imminent release date. Ray may have more up to date info though.
Carl (UK)
My understanding is that it’s still on the same timeframe as from back in November ‘Early January’. I’ll see them next week at CES, so can ask then.
Awesome. The Vector 3S is my first powermeter and was really looking forward to playing around with them. Problem is that since I am using a Polar computer the pedals are pretty much useless at this point. Crossing my fingers for a actual imminent release.
Kristian
Thanks Ray. Great review BTW, it really helped in my buying decision, when looking at all the options.
Did you by any chance test the pedals With a Polar computer given that you have Access to the beta firmware that transmits Power data over BT?
I didn’t, though, I should be able to give the V800 a whirl here shortly (just a bit sidelined doing other stuff ahead of CES next week).
Hi Ray,
I am in the market for a Vector 3 power meters but do not want to invest in an expensive bike computer.
With that said, I understand that a lack of computer will limit my display options unless I can hopefully pair it it with my Forerunner 935 and/or Iphone 6 running Garmin Connect.
My questions are the following:
1. If paired to my 935, will I be able to see the wattage displayed?
2. If paired with my Iphone 6 running the Garmin Connect and setting is on LIVETRACK, will I get be getting instantaneous and live wattage values and pedal metrics and if so, can anyone send a screenshot of what it would look like as an example?
3. If no to question #1 and #2, are there apps I can use I can install on my 935 or Iphone and display live metrics in place of a bike computer?
Thanks!
John
Hi John-
1) Yes
2) You’ll get live power, but no pedal metrics. Honestly though, using that app that way for just displaying on your phone is a bit of a complex solution. Personally, I’d just use some free 3rd party apps. For example, the Wahoo Fitness app works just fine (once Garmin enables the BLE support here any day/week now).
Enjoy!
Hi, I have the Vector 3S and can see that the readings on Zwift from a Tacx Vortex is way higher than the Vector 3s. Around 60 watts higher on Zwift at FTP, though I am inclined to think that the Vector’s are way more accurate than what the Vortex measures, even for a single sided power meter (I probably have a leg imbalance as well). The Vector 3S numbers seem to feel right for my ability.
The only downside is that Garmin have not yet released the software update for BT smart – I checked with them today and they confirmed it is in testing and will be released soon, so I will just have to stick with an Ant+ dongle.
Yeah, Vortex is tricky. It can be accurate, but i find getting a clean calibration can be tricky.
Late? check, buggy connectivity? check – yes, it’s another Garmin product.
Favero, please have my money when your Assioma is back in stock.
Hi DC Rainmaker,
do you maybe know when the Vector3 will be finally on sale on the Garminpage. The release date gets prostponed all the time.
Thx a lot, Markus
I’m not sure. They’ve said they were start doing Garmin.com orders after most other retail channels caught up. I think they’re getting closer.
But given you can purchase it in the US or Europe with relatively minimal delay these days (and if in Europe, at a discount), I’m not sure what the advantage is of Garmin.com.
Ray, following up to my other comment on the 4 month delay, any reccomendation on where to get these in europe?
Still not available to order via <a href="link to buy.garmin.com US, and EU stores show a “Processing time is 3–5 weeks” blurb.
Doesn’t look like Garmin’s getting anywhere close to meeting retail channel demand yet.
Searched a bit and it seems for now Cycling Dynamics is not accessible unless you use Garmin supported devices or a very short list of clients like Trainer Road. I’ve got an Elemnt and even with TWG stuff, its going to be a while if ever.
I’m surprised Garmin doesn’t make possible saving CD data via the Garmin Mobile app. There’s not reason for me to get the Vector 3 over the 3S. Am I missing something?
I have had two issues with my Vector 3 pedals my first set which were returned under warranty would flash green and red lights on both pedals and after a couple of weeks the pedals would only stay connected for about 10 seconds.
My new set will occasionally show a message on my Edge 820 “Right Sensor Missing” and when it happens the left pedal will go into a series of 3 flashing green lights the first time I noticed this was about two hours after powering down the head unit I assume it would have flashed until the battery was completely drained had I not reconnected the sensor and powered off the head unit while both pedals were connected.
A couple of days ago I got the alternating lights again green and red, I think the problem might be in the Edge 820 anyone else seen behavior like this?
I have a similar problem.
link to forums.garmin.com
Waiting for garmin support.
I was looking forward to these but with it now being just shy of 4 months since full payment on a pre-order with no concrete shipping date, I’ve finally given up and got a refund to spend the money on something else or possibly still get them down the track when they are readily available and have had some long term usage by the lucky recipients…
Where did you order that you haven’t received units yet (but paid)?
They’ve been shipping to retailers since October.
Same story here.. 4 months, ordered the second they were out from powermeter24.com and got nothing yet. Maybe they have an incredibly limited supply?
Melbourne, AUS. “Pre-Ordered” (paid in full) with local retailer 16th September ’17…
Hmm, weird on both.
In general, retailers had to place pre-orders back before it was announced (and/or the same day it was announced). But still, most of those types of orders have been cleared in the US and Europe. My guess is that for retailers that aren’t having major delays (i.e. only a few weeks), is that they place significant pre-orders early to account for sales well through early 2018.
I’m in the same situation, but in NZ… we use the Australian shipping channel though. ordered and paid through LBS in September last year. Local Garmin product info is next to useless…
Clever Training sent an update last night, their expected shipment this week did not end up shipping, they are now estimating end of month to receive a shipment to satisfy current backorders.
Does anyone have any further update on the bluetooth Smart firmware?
I’m looking forward to using zwift but cant until zwift can connect my pedals!
Hi,
Congrats for this website.
Actually there is a lot a powermeter in the market, and the choise is difficult.
What is your advise for the best solution price/accuracy/durability :
– Used SRM with PC8 – 1000/1200€
– Garmin Vector 3 with – 520 1200€
– P2M ng eco / 520 – 900€
– Assioma Duo / 520 – 1000€
Thanks
Great review – thanks.
I have a Wahoo Elemnt and recently purchased Vector 3s.I’m a bit disappointed that I can’t sync with Garmin Connect (should have checked first) and that I can’t use Cycling Dynamics.
Before I sell my Elemnt and purchase a Garmin.
Can anyone answer these questions:
– Does anyone use an Elemnt with their Vector pedals and are you happy that they are producing an accurate ouput?
– Why is there no calibrate option on the Elemnt (just one to Forget the sensor)?
– How do I calibrate the pedals without this option?
– If I have left and right average of 45/55, does this just mean that I put more power down with my right leg or do I need to recalibrate?
– On smoothness, one pedal keeps cutting out – is this normal? What am I aiming for here – matching numbers?
Thanks
Hi, I use an Elemnt Bolt. At first the readings were a bit wayward but now they match a Garmin 520 readings. You calibrate by pressing the power button once on the lower edge, this takes you to settings and you scroll down to sensors. As long as you’ve turned the cranks the powermeter will be recognised and the left hand of the bottom 3 keys gives you calibrate option.
When I got the Vectors I sent my faulty 520 back for repair so I could get Cycling Dynamics, not sure why I bothered really as the Bolt gives me all the data I can use.
Each to their own but I don’t think you’ll gain much by getting a Garmin head unit – certainly not £200 worth.
Thanks James
That is where I was looking but I will have another look in case I missed the calibrate option. I’m now wondering whether this works on the Elemnt Bolt but not the Elemnt.
Presumably there is no need to set crank length anywhere?
Are you using a 3s or 5s average?
Hello, I think I set the crank length in the app on my smartphone. Yes I use 3s average on both my 520 and my Bolt.
I’m due to do an FTP effort on Saturday and will record it on both head units to see if there is any difference but I don’t expect there to be. At first I had similar concerns about The Elemnt but I think The issues were down to the pedals bedding in after swapping bikes and me not being clear on the calibration process – which is dead simple. After swapping bikes I now do that before any ride and then a few minutes in after a couple of short harder efforts.
Thanks James
Now calibrated as per your instructions. A couple of failed attempts but if anyone else if reading this, try unpairing and repairing first.
Presumably the app sends the crank length info to the pedals – I input this through the Garmin Connect App.
FTP for me now!
Incredible review of a product I’m really interested in! Overall, more than I needed to konw, but there was one key (for me) issue that you didn’t comment on. With the original Vectors, which I am still riding, the cadence limit was 150rpm or something and in practice I find that over 160rpm it just cuts out meaning that I cannot measure very high cadence sprints. You comment on this limit in the review of the original Vectors but nothing about it here. Do you know if there still a cadence limit and whether or not this point is the same?
Hi Patrick66,
I have the 3S with a Garmin Edge 520 head unit. Having seen your post, on my workout tonight I whipped up my cadence to 169 which registered on the Vector 3S and Edge 520 head unit. I could only hold for about 3 seconds though :-). One thing I did notice when I ramped it up, the cadence briefly displayed erratic readings – it must have been milliseconds but I certainly did see it register. It looks as though I had a drop out in connection but I cannot remember if I stopped then tried again – I think I must have done, as a wattage of 22 registered. Looking at my cadence in the files after the workout, the increase in cadence over the 3 seconds each time I tried was smooth (I took off smoothing on TrainingPeaks).
Hope that helps. I can have another go during my next workout and report back.
I only had that in me the once and I was spinning a light gear – my power at the time was around 340 Watts, so I am not going to be troubling any sprinters any time soon. It was on an indoor trainer as well. I have a attached the peak in cadence for reference.
Hope that helps.
Here is the 169 RPM peak.
Hi Carl S, Thanks very much for testing this out! Your sprint is actually very similar to the kind where I get complete loss of data. I use an indoor training program called TrainerRoad which includes ‘form sprints’ (high cadence low power) and before I get to the high cadence you achieved both power and cadence drop out even though I’m still pedalling. From your description and the helpful graph you posted, it looks like the situation has been greatly improved with the 3S but not entirely eliminated as you mention the eratic readings. Anyway, this is very informative and a real help. Thanks again for literally going the distance to check this out! I know this is not an easy thing to research!
No problem Patrick66.
BTW I use TrainerRoad and a Tacx Vortex Smart, with an Ant+ dongle connected to my Mac. TrainerRoad works fine with this set up, with readings from the Vectors, controlling the trainer through the app during intervals. I am really happy with the Vector’s so far and they feel very constant from ride to ride, providing all the calibration protocols are done.
Thanks for the follow up, Carl S. It sounds like you have an excellent set up there for TrainerRoad, definitely something I would like to replicate in the long run. I’m not in a position to get a smart trainer at the moment as I will be moving overseas in a few months so making do with resistance (dumb) rollers but upgrading the Vectors is looking like an atractive option at the moment.
My Vector 3S is blinking red/green (which should mean SW upgrade) for the last 30 mins . My Garmin connect app say device not connected.
Is it normal to take so much time? how do I know it didn’t just hang…
Thanks!
ds9
I had the same issue starting Jan 14th after my GC mobile updated. Both Vector 3 pedals would blink Green/Red whenever my Android phone would be in range of the pedals even though the GC app says not connected. Tried unpairing/repairing, restarting phone, removing battery from pedals,…etc. I also let Pedal blinking/update run all night draining the batteries but it never finished. If I remove the Vector 3 pedals from my GC/phone, the blinking/updating stops and the pedals work fine. Tried adding the pedals back again yesterday Jan 17th and the blinking/updating started again. Had no issues prior to the GC mobile update.
Thanks for great review! Does anyone have tried to use these Vectors with Polar V800 or other Polar unit? Because in the Polar page, Vectors are not on the supported power sensors list: link to support.polar.com
Thanks!
As of yet, Garmin hasn’t released the Bluetooth Smart update for Vector 3, thus, the Polar V800 can’t talk to them yet.
Thanks for the reply! Maybe there is any news, when this update is coming?
Thanks for the update. I am following this closely because deciding whether to go for Vector 3 or Powertap. Vector 3 not an option until it can connect to V800 or M460.
They’re getting me a more detailed date today. They did confirm it passed the BLE SIG, and they were working to address a regression in test before they released it.
Any update on the release date? Been waiting for quite some time for the BLE firmware to be released.
Sorry, forgot to circle back.
Yes, current date is ‘Early Feb’, so basically within the next couple weeks. They said they were good with that date, assuming no further regressions in the beta build.
Hi, can anyone confirm this Garmin 3S Polar V800 is now supported?
If my technology skills allow (not hopeful) I intend to start a closed FB group for vector 3 users. Have no intention of stepping on Rays shoes or stealing any thunder but such a group may be able to ask questions and discuss experieces as the product becomes more main stream leaving Ray to product review.
Any thoughts?
That would be a great idea.
I’ve got no issues with that at all!
There’s a similar ones for Wahoo out there.
The only caveat I’d note is that Garmin does have their official support forum, which they are pretty active in. My guess is it’d be hard for them to follow more places on-line. But if that’s not a desire, then no worries.
I’m looking to invest in the Vector3 as my first power meter. Firstly the device I am going to be pairing with is a garmin fenix3 as I don’t own a head unit. Will all the cycling dinamics be available to that device and will it transfer all data to garmin connect via that device?
Secondly I am using a campagnolo Bullet crank which was one of only 2 that wasn’t compatible with Vector1/2s because of the thickness and addition of the pods. I was hoping the new version 3s would be fine. Any thoughts.
Thanks
P.s. Thanks for all the articles that have influenced me in various products, be it to purchase or not
Thanks Ray.
I have now created a Facebook group called Vector 3 users and would be delighted and honoured if you were able to join it so as to keep the advice coming.
Thanks for such a great review! Just trying to decide on the single or double Vector 3. No idea how much of a power discrepancy I have on the L vs R. I am sure that changes all the time. It is a lot of money an I am trying to justify the double pedals. Thoughts?
Thanks for the great review. I’m considering the Vector 3’s but I’m a bit concerned with the weight limit of 105Kg. I’m normally 104Kg so with cycling gear on would be a bit over 105Kg. I don’t see this limit with other pedal power meters. Don’t want to risk any problems with the pedals so would you recommend others?
One question:
Do I need every time before usage of Vector 3 (on the same bike, just different day) calibrate it via Garmin 1000? Is there any effect on calibration if I unclip pedals and press “calibrate” at horizontal level or vertical level pedals versus floor level ?
? Anyone ?
Hi Mark,
It would be helpful to do a zero calibration before each ride as a best practices approach. Pedal position will not impact the calibration if there is no load on the pedals. After a re-installation of the pedals a manual calibration is recommended.
Hi Shawn@Garmin
I don’t know where in the world you are from, but are you able to find out what product availability for these pedals is expected for the AUS/NZ part of the world? I don’t think Garmin wants the southern hemisphere to use their products 🙁 I have been advised by local bike shops in NZ and AUS, that nowhere has recieved any stock, despite numerous pre-orders. Shocking support by Garmin International.
Hi Paul
There’s a number of AU online retailers advertising “in stock” (Highly Tuned Athletes and Pushys for example). I talked to an NZ retailers today and they’re expecting their first stock over the next couple of days
Shawn, can you explain the process of a manual calibration please? I have vector3s and want to switch them between my Tri bike and roadie…
Hi Stuart-
You will want to use your Edge or Forerunner/Fenix product to calibrate the pedals when you swap them between your bikes.
Am I able to do it in Garmin connect app? Or is it a different calibration to that. Issue is I don’t use an edge and I don’t take my forerunner on rides and as per Rays recommendations, I should do a few short sprints before re-calibrating. Would be nice if I could do that then just do it on my phone?
Thx for great review again! With many years of bad itch to get a power meter I finally decided to go for it and get 3rd gen Vectors. Pedal makes most sense for me with a total of 6 road/cx/tri bikes in use (w/o MTBs). My question: does anyone know for sure that Garmin Vector 3 will support simultaneously ANT+ and BLE? I.e. can I have L/R power displayed on a compatible Garmin Edge device and get one channel/combined power on some BLE device (like Polar V800 that I am using)? To Garmin: I have high hopes that you would implement two-sided L/R BLE later with a firmware upgrade, but until that I would have to go with using 2 devices to get full benefit.
I’m curious what the Power field is in your Garmin head unit photo. The graph with a max and avg reading.
Are these vaporware? Does anyone have these . . . purchased via a retail outlet? I’ve been on the Garmin’s email notification list since November . . . no update. Should I be concerned that there is a quality issue as these haven’t been released for mass consumption?
Hi Todd,
We tend to sell through our retail outlets first and are currently shipping to our retailers. You might want to reach out to your local Garmin Dealer. Please feel free to reach out to us if you are unable to locate a set and we will help.
Thanks Shawn. I will. I used to shop at the Chicago store, but it closed . . . and there aren’t any local shops that are going to stock this product.
Shawn – I contacted local dealers who would stock or would order a 1K specialty bike product, and they do not have any in stock or plan to have any in stock. Many would order but have no idea as to availability.
So, I reached out to customer support and got a big fat zero . . . I was told I can try to order of 2/16/18.
Shopping in local shops in 2018? I admire you 🙂 But on serious note. Power meters are still rather niche products and are not widely available in local shops (never were). The best way to buy power meter of any brand is through online retailer or even directly from manufacturer.
None of my local shops carry any power meters. They will overnight anything their distributor has in stock though.
Hi DC
I have a set of vector 3s coming my way will they work ok with my Wahoo elemnt? and as my first power meter which i want to use to help track and increase fitness have i made a good choice?
kind regards Jason
@jason
They work great with the ELEMNT. Well I only have the 3S, but I think the dual setup 3 will work transparently but will *not* have the Cycling Dynamics features that show power differences left and right.
i only have the 3s through warranty so im a happy chap with them ?
Hey, do you know if the Edge 500 is compatible with the Vector 3 pedals? I have asked Garmin and they pointed me to their compatibility page which suggests the Edge 500 isn’t compatible but since it works on ANT+ why wouldn’t it work? Thanks, Kevin
It works all good, except you don’t get Cycling Dynamics information. So you’ll get total power, power balance, cadence. But none of the seated/standing type stuff, nor the platform center offset pieces or power phase stuff.
Thanks Ray. Will cycling dynamics be available on Garmin Connect for post ride analysis if the ride is recorded on the Edge 500? Or not available at all?
Hi Ray
Tested my vector 3/Edge 1030 against watt bike atom and vector 3 are running at lower power output by c15%. Anything I should check on the vector 3 settings that Im missing. Thanks
Quick hit list:
A) Double-check crank length is set (or just set it to something like 170.0 for a few seconds, then set it to whatever your crank length is, which 110% ensures it’ll confirm that entry).
B) Do 2-4 super quick sprints, just 5-10 seconds is fine, reasonably hard. Then do a zero offset.
C) Then see where things are. I’d expect Vector 3 to run slightly higher than the Atom, just slightly.
Beyond those things, the next trick would be figuring out whether it’s Atom or Vector that’s out. Unfortunately, that’s a wee bit trickier.
Thanks Ray. That seems to have solved it.
Great review!! I purchased a vector 3S. But somehow I can’t get the pedal to pair with my Suunto spartan watch?! I can pair the pedal via ANT+ to my Garmin Edge. I can pair it via Buetooth to the Garmin app on my phone. I can connect my watch via Bluetooth to my phone, But I can’t pair the vector pedal to my Suunto watch. I had no trouble at all pairing a stages power meter to the watch. Can anybody help me out here?
greetings Kees
BT sensor data transmission is not available yet afaik. It’s “coming soon”.
Got my Vector 3 pedals last night. Only got to check them out for a few minutes but this feels like a very well-made product. The prior versions of the Vector did not really feel like a finished product. The Vector 3 from a hardware standpoint looks like a finished product. So far, very happy that I switched to Vector from the PT pedals. I bet Powertap starts getting real nervous.
Is the issue withthe vector 2 that showed faulty watt readings in temperatures below 5 degrees centigrade adressed with these V3’s?
Where do you see Vector 2 having issues below 5*C? They’re rated for -10C*, and given the Vector team is based in the mountains of Alberta, Canada which is pretty much below 0*C all winter long…
(Never heard of Vector 2 issues with temp)
I just bought the Garmin Vector 3 recently and would like to share my experience with everyone:
I was using Shimano 6800 pedal and switched to the Vector 3.
I replaced the cleat come with the Vector 3, it works ok but don’t feel comfortable with the cleat installation done by myself. Place a visit to my bike fitter to re-install the cleat and found that my bike fitter can’t use Ergon tool to install it because Garmin cleat is not the same sharp as Look Keo. I bought a Look Keo 4.5 degree float cleat and get the installation done by using Ergon cleat tool.
I ride on the trainer last night and discovered that the float of the cleat is bigger than I thought. This 4.5 degree float Look Keo cleat and bigger float than the 6 degree Garmin cleat. I wonder the pedal is not 100% compatible with Look Keo cleat….
Anyone else have the same issue?
Thank you Ray!! very helpful review!! I started use Vector 3 after year of Stages PM. I noticed a small difference from power value between them (a little bit higher for V3). What do you think? Is that it?
Fairly normal. Technically speaking Vector 3 would measure almost negligibly higher than Stages due to losses.
But realistically what you’re likely looking at is that your left/right balance is skewed slightly on Stages (since it only measures left leg and doubles it). Versus Vector which measures both legs.
Fwiw, if you really want to dig into it, you can actually load both files (from the same ride) up in the DCR Analyzer (link to dcrainmaker.com), and then within the graphs you’ll see a left/right balance graph, which allows you to compare the left leg of Stages to the left leg of Vector 3.
Enjoy!
Thanks Ray for your reply
sorry….I wrote Vector 3 but I actually have a Vector 3s. So I think you are right….the higher values for the Vector 3s depend on the losses in the measure that are different for the two PM. The Vector 3 measure the power on the pedal axe….so the losses are smaller then the Stages.
Wow! This article answers all the questions I had about pedal power meters and, I guess, all the ones I should have had but didn’t. Unfortunately after reading this I realize I better read the other articles on power meters as well before assuming I was right in limiting myself to pedal meters.
Good
Hi I just got a set of vector 3 pedals and installed them on my bike, I am using a wahoo element bolt and paired the pedals to the device, I am a bit unsure on how to calibrate or do a zero offset using the element bolt if you could advise that would be great.
I connected through the garmin connect app and changed in settings from the default crank length to 175mm which mine are but do I need to do this on my ELEMNT bolt also?
Finally as the weather was too bad to go outside to test the pedals I put my bike on my kickr and connected to zwift I changed from the kickr to the pedals for power source and went riding my power figures seemed way higher using the pedals as power source. So when I unpair on the sensor screen I can see what the kickr is reading and the pedals and there was a difference of 300-40watts with the pedals reading higher.
Have I don’t something wrong?
Tnx Paul
@Paul
I’m using your exact setup. On crank length, you set it in the Garmin Connect app and it stores it in the pedal. No need to change it in other apps.
On calibration, if you have latest firmware for your ELEMNT, go into the sensor screen (power button), scroll down to the sensor, you should see a “calibrate” option above your center button.
On Kickr power, I noticed that too. One source of difference is that there is power loss in the drive train and in the Kickr itself. The pedal is receiving raw push power not reduced by the transmission drive train. Did you mean 30-40 not 300-40? 🙂 Even 30-40 seems too high. Try the calibrate button.
Hi Andrew thanks for your reply.
I had seen a post somewhere about the calibration and tried it initially but it didn’t work as I was spinning the crank.
So tried it again with the crank stationery and it calibrated fine, re tried zwift again and it was matching the kickr.
Slightly disappointed cause I thought maybe the kickr was reading low and I was actually putting out more power but sadly not haha.
Hi! Still no word of when the Bluetooth is available? I don’t want to buy an ant+ stick for $100 to get in trainer road. it’s crazy that it has taken so long… thanks
Very very soon. Garmin stated ‘early Feb’ last week or so, and re-confirmed that two days ago to me (along with the final version to try out). They also noted their displeasure at it taking so long.
I just got a feedback from their Customer service in Germany that the upate is announced but they have no idea when and if it will work for example with a Suunto Spartan. Thanks Garmin…
Hi DC
Bought a set of Vector 3 pedals and seeing some odd behaviour when comparing against my Tacx Bushido Smart.
Did a ride on Zwift and for the first 45 minutes the Vector 3 and Bushido track very closely and my L/R balance is about 50/50.
After a period of low Watts (downhill from mountain) I’m suddenly seeing a gap of 30-40W between the Vector 3 and Bushido (also, the L/R balance is now 55/45, the right pedal is reporting less power).
Have you seen this behaviour before?
Wondering if there’s an issue with the pedals…
Link to analyzer: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Tnx Jil
That’s weird. I’d agree that your left/right split totally goes wonk at the 40-minute marker. But I suppose that could also be after a hard effort for your first 40 minutes (if you didn’t see that as a hard effort, then I’d lean towards something else being up).
I’d be interesting if you did a zero offset if the left/right balance is still weird. If so, I’d hit up Garmin Support. If it had just been a total power shift between the two units, I’d be more inclined to blame the Bushido (temp shifts, etc..), but for the left/right balance to randomly go out, I’d lean towards Garmin.
I’ve got just the same issue with my vector 3. The total power drop 30-40w down, and it’s the right pedal fault.
D.C – it’s not related to high watt at the beginning, for me it’s appear for the start of the ride. Nothing solve the problem.
It’s was the 5th ride with the vector 3, after 4 good rides.
I’ve left them at the warranty support lab yesterday, and I’m waiting for them to reply.
I’ll keep you posted.
Note:
It’s happened while I was on the Bushido too – hop it’s not the issue…??
By the way, I’ve operated the vector as 3S and it worked well.
Hi Ray and Yakov
Thanks for you replies.
I’ve done a few more rides and a number of zero offsets as well.
The Bushido and the Vector seem to be much more in line now.
See this ride from today, they track closely except at the lowest watts.
The L/R balance was 50/50 as well over 75 mins.
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
I’m happy with this evolution.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
How did you get it back working well?
Just by itself?
For me nothing goes until replacement.
I even try to remove the batteries.
Hello,
I have one question and I know you can give some light in the matter. I am pretty closed in buying a power meter now, I know they are great tools to track your progress and do your training. I going to buy a pedal base power meter since they acurate, easy to move and also price accesible for me now and my question is the following what are the differences between a single leg or dual leg pedal base power meter?, I mean how can I benefit in real life from a single leg to a dual leg one?
Hi Ray,
Long time follower, first time poster!
I’ve just purchased the Vector 3S and will switch them between my roadie and Tri bike. I was wondering, can you buy a single right sided Garmin pedal? Given my tri bike just sits on the trainer, it would be even better only having to swap the one pedal each time!
Hi Stu-
No, I’m not aware of any way to buy just a blank right pedal. Though, I agree, that would be kinda logical. Perhaps reach out to Garmin support and see if maybe there’s an option through a special service SKU or something? I suspect they must have some option to handle damaged non-sensor pedals.
Cheers.
If anyone tries changing the batteries, be really careful when removing them and then inserting the battery door into the pedal. Plenty of info on the Garmin forums about this but it is really easy to strip the threads and screw the door in at the wrong angle.
Be careful when removing the batteries from the holder as well, as you can remove some clear strips from the side contacts, which can cause false readings. I would use your fingers, rather than a knife edge/flat screwdriver.
I’ve got a completely new device.
Under warranty replacement.
Yet to check it.
From the field: Garmin Vector 3 Battery Life Report
Short version:
Lasted 87 hours; battery warning problems; durability issues with rubber o-ring
Details:
I just had to change out my first set of batteries for the Garmin Vector 3 Pedals (dual-sided) since getting them at Xmas. My total run time according to Strava was 83h10m, but I added a 1.05 multiplier to get 87 hours or so because the pedals were probably on for some of the time before and after rides, and more importantly, before and after cafe stops. I live in Northern California and temperatures ranged from 45-75F during this time. I did not use these in the rain. I did not spill coffee on them during my cafe stops. Pedal smoothness was disabled.
I started getting low battery warnings on my Garmin 820 head unit for the last 40 hours or so, but when I checked the battery life using the Garmin mobile app via bluetooth on my phone, it showed 3 full bars. Finally, today, the 3 full bars instantly turned into 1 red bar and I was convinced to change them. During those 40 hours though, I had perfect data from both pedals. This sounds like a voltage calibration issue before the pedals should start (prematurely) issuing the warning to the head unit. Garmin should address this via a firmware update.
The battery change was straight forward, just needing a 4mm hex. The problem though, however, is the yellow rubber o-ring. Af part of the waterproofing, Garmin opted for a thin, yellow o-ring that freely floats inside the spindle. This o-ring is not going to cut it. It’s incredibly flimsy and seems to get caught in the threads of the cap, no matter how careful you are (I have a very steady hand for this type of task). If I were to guess, the o-ring will break after a couple more battery replacements … so where do we get o-ring replacements??? Garmin? Anyone figured out a replacement from a random hardware store? We shouldn’t have to do that for a $1,000 product …
Hmmmm ….
@Kendrick I’m nearly 100% sure in my box there was a bag with some yellow o rings in them!
Now I’m worried my pedals have no O-rings fitted at all!
Do the pedals come from Garmin with batteries already installed?
Hopefully they are just spare o-rings.
@Kendrick.
I raised the low battery message on the head unit with Garmin support (GCM gives three bars an ‘good’). They got back to me saying they had added my issue to the case, so I think mine is not an isolated issue. They said the are treating it as urgent and hope to resolve it quickly.
FWIW, I split protein drink on my pedals – the expected turbo boost in watts did not materialise.
I’ve been offered a set of these second hand with only a couple of month’s use and I’m SERIOUSLY considering the offer since the price is rather tempting. Does anyone know if Garmin’s warranty is transferable or it still applies if the product is bought second hand (but inside the warranty period, naturally)
Thanks!
As long as you get a copy of the original sales receipt from an authorized retailer, you should be fine.
I am basing this on my experience with Garmin product warranties, and this section below:
Online Auction Purchases: Products purchased through online auctions are not eligible for rebates or other special offers from Garmin warranty coverage. Online auction confirmations are not accepted for warranty verification. To obtain warranty service, an original or copy of the sales receipt from the original retailer is required. Garmin will not replace missing components from any package purchased through an online auction.
Source: link to garmin.com
I’ve got vector 3 service last week only by scanning the bar code on the box.
Just as a quick heads up to those following along on comment subscriptions, Garmin has released the Vector 3 BLE firmware. Details here: link to dcrainmaker.com
I ordered the Vector 3 in early January from Clever Training and as of now it remains in pre-order status through at least March. Any explanation for the break in the supply chain?
I know they got delayed coming out of Christmas a few weeks, and then started catching up. But now you’re battling Chinese New Year (Garmin’s factory is in Taiwan, which celebrates as well). That basically takes everything in the tech world offline for two weeks (+).
I went with an alternative version to get dual side sensors.
Bought the 3S, and then Garmin had a 3S right-pedal upgrade in stock. Voila, two pedals – No waiting
Now, they just need to release BT support before I take them offshore for training 6th of March
You are a f*&king genius! Hats off to you! I wish I had thought of that
That’s pretty smart…
Btw – the BT upgrade is available: link to dcrainmaker.com
Very happy that I was able to get them instantly, instead of the indicated 5-7 weeks (which has been pushed several times)
Thanks for the Bluetooth upgrade info. Great to be able to stick to my training program when at work offshore and it will be great to have a small kit like this for travel. Just now realising all the potential that opens up with these and a small pedal key.
Thanks Ray for all your super detailed reviews that always answers way more issues than I ever thought I would be curious about.
Just wondering if there’s anyone who has been using these pedals and switching them between two bikes regularly with success?
I have been switching my pedals about once per week since the end of December when my V3 arrived.
It works fine with one major caveat. Once you switch bike, you will need to ride it for a while before you can be sure of correct readings. There are a couple of reasons for this,
– V3 needs to adjust for the new installation torque,
– also needs to adjust for the spindle orientation
In addition to this, the pedals may “bed in” over the first couple of hard efforts and so again the torque may alter slightly and all the above adjustments take a finite period of time.
When I first used the pedals I was quite worried that there was an accuracy issue (I bought them specifically for the accuracy claims plus the ease of bike switch so I get no variation due to different PMs when testing on TT bike vs road bike) because they seemed off after moving between bikes almost every time, but once I understood the above process I am happy enough to work around it.
You can speed up the adjustment by resetting the install angles – some more info appears in this thread. link to forums.garmin.com
My change bike routine is once I switch the pedals over I do the normal zero offset calibration followed by the install angle reset, ride for a few minutes and repeat the zero offset reset. After that it seems to work well.
Thanks Martin. You’ve made that sound quite simple. One question, can you do a install angle reset without owning an edge? I use a bolt (although I do have a forerunner 935 but don’t take it on rides). Also, is there anyway of knowing when you are ok to do the second zero offset or do you just give it a couple of short hard effort like Ray suggests? Cheers
Hi Stu, I think the reset install angle might be available in the Connect app (although the app seems a bit flakey from what I can see, e.g. it ignores when I adjust crank length for example) – if not, then it will still self adjust but might take a bit longer so shouldn’t be a show stopper.
I generally do the second zero offset after a 10-15 minute warm up and that seems fine, probably the quick couple of sprints is enough though. It would be nice if Shawn@Garmin or someone could give us an estimate for best and worse case for the V3 to self adjust so that we know 😉
Ray – If you had your bike setup on a Cycleops Hammer with Garmin Vector 3 pedals, which method of power tracking would you pick when recording your indoor training sessions? Would you use the built-in Cycleops Power Meter or Vector 3 Power Meter? Many thanks!
Personally, I generally go with the power meter over the trainer, since the number is applicable inside and outside. Sometimes with the Tacx Neo specifically, if I’m lazy I’ll just use that. Since it’s one of the few trainers I truly trust on power accuracy.
Great insights and usual on this site.
One question occurs to me now that the BLE firmware has been released – when connecting to a Wahoo Elemnt. Bolt, which is the best way to connect- BLE or ANT+ ?
Ant+. Quote from comment written by official Wahoo representative under Elemnt Bolt review:
“(…)After several comments and emails I’ve been looking into the reported problems and unfortunately we had some internal confusion and things didn’t get escalated correctly. There is two known problems:
1. L/R BT Power Sensors are not supported, this has been a known limitation since we launched, this is because they actually two sensors. Our preferred solution here is to always connect via ANT+, you still get L/R data and this is our preferred method for all duel BT/ANT+ sensors as it leaves the BT connection open for the phone for things like firmware updates without blocking connections. We normally do this prefer ANT+ logic internally but require a few things from the manufacture.”
Just wanted to make a quick post that may be useful to someone.
So I was riding on my zwift using my kickr and vector 3 pedals and my left pedals started creaking really bad, of course I panicked and thought I had got a faulty product.
Anyway a quick google and I came across a gcn YouTube video about noisey pedals and a quick spray of lube on the cleat sorted the issue.
A lot of people may of already been aware of this solution but if you weren’t hopefully this will help you.
Great review, in depth. Validates my purchase of the pedals. Always nice when you spend the $$.
Some users (myself included) are experiencing dropout issues after replacing the Vector 3’s batteries. Garmin is apparently aware of the issue and suggests that it might be hardware related. Given that early adopters are only now beginning to replace the batteries, the number of comments already posted online, and the possibility of the issue becoming more commonplace following multiple battery swaps, Garmin could have a major issue on its hands. Kudos, however, to Garmin support for acknowledging the issue without hesitation and immediately offering to swap my pedals and pay the return shipping.
@Robert: did they pay the shipment to the garmin service facility?
The Garmin representative said that they would send a return label with the new pedals but they did not. I will call and see what I can do. BTW, I’ve been getting dropouts on the right _replacement_ pedal. This may be due to my use of additional spacers (to balance the R/L Q-Factor) which has the impact of pulling the spindle end back into the crank and, perhaps, degrading the signal. I’ve gone back to one spacer (which I need to keep the spindle end from contacting the chain) and will see what happens on my next ride.
Would you see any problem in using these with pedal extensions? I called garmin and was basically told they didn’t know because it hadn’t been tested. Seems like if there were some added inaccuracies due to the extensions that it would be consistent to my setup and still useful in that I’d be comparing it against myself as a baseline.
Hello Frank,
Did you ever receive any feedback on this topic or have you come to any conclution yourself.
KR//Fredrik
Has anyone tested PR44 batteries? If Vector 3 could work with 1.4V, the stamina could be much higher. You need to be careful because this type of battery is used, for example, in watches where the peak load is not high.
Have the pedals a few weeks now and the one thing I didn’t like about them was the amount of float the standard red cleats have. I came from using shimano pedals with yellow cleats and these garmin cleats just have way too much float.
When I got these vector pedals I removed 3 sets of shimano pedals from all my bikes and sold them, so I bought a set of look keo blades to put on the bike I’ll be using on wahoo kickr so I don’t have to be swapping the vectors around 3 bikes. They arrived today and came with grey cleats so I tried the grey cleats with the vectors 3’s and they are so much better.
I will be ordering another set of grey keo cleats and bining the garmin cleats!
Same feelings. I love the solid feel from Shimano cleat and pedal. I am using 4.5 degree float Look cleat, it it’s still too much float. It affected the way I pedaling…
Matt need to try 0 degree float cleat next time…
I haven’t ridden with the new firmware yet but I have been getting HORRIBLE drops between my vector 3 and edge 520. All the rides were on a trainer (haven’t been able to go outside yet) but I even have a video where the power, cadence, etc all dropped for a full minute. It was typically happening after an hour of use or so. I will ride outside and see if I get the issue. Also the new firmware may have fixed this problem.
That’s pretty odd, haven’t heard that I don’t think.
Any chance your HR or trainer also dropped out? That’s a good way to tell if it’s more a transient interference thing, or a Vector 3 specific thing. Though I’ve certainly had WiFi/whatever interference in the past that only impacted one sensor at a time randomly.
Update: I just rode for over 1.5 hours and got over 32 minutes of 0W data (yes, I stopped a few times at lights but honestly pedaled the entire ride). When the power cuts out it can be for just a second or up to minutes. I only use garmin equipment (HR, 520, and vector 3). During the ride I was connected to my phone via bluetooth and tested some things including turning wifi off on my phone partway into the ride, next I turned bluetooth off on my phone, and next I turned bluetooth off on the garmin. In all instances, the drops were never fixed. During that time, the data that dropped were only from the pedals. Both my 520 and vector 3 are completely up to date and I calibrated my vector 3 twice before and during the ride. If there is interest I was able to take a few more videos, but obviously that’s difficult to see.
I would say one of the worst parts, besides not getting data for a significant portion of the ride, would be that when it “reconnects” I will get spikes in the data, whether it’s cadence or power or whatnot, it changes every time. This past ride I saw max cadence of 246 rpm which I can promise I cannot achieve. These spikes were typically 2-3 times more than what I was seeing immediately before. Some spikes though were in the thousands. I regularly see 2-4k watts (this past ride I saw 3627W). I had to turn off zero averaging to get any sensible data and its ridiculous that I would my avg power for the whole ride is 20% higher than my max 20 min power… which makes no sense. These spikes destroy the normalized power too as it is usually 25+% higher than my average power for the ride even though my intensity factor is usually very close to 1.
I honestly bought these because of cycling dynamics, but if garmin is releasing that to other companies, these things are honestly worthless.
Seems like battery issue to me. It might lose contact for some periods of time. Power and cadence spikes occur when power meter reboots after being powered on again.
Nick, any chance the black plastic caps on the end of the pedals are recessed in the crank arm?
I just helped a friend who was seeing drops from one of the two pedals. The pedal with the drop accidentally had two washers on it making the plastic bit with the antenna recessed into the crank a good bit. Removing the extra washer and having the antenna no longer shielded by the crank arm seems to have fixed things up.
This is becoming a recurring problem for a number of users on the Garmin Forum.
link to forums.garmin.com
I’ve been fighting it for the last week. Same symptoms. It’s been blamed on GCM, head unit, and a number of other factors. However, it sounds like the battery housing, cover, whatever, design or manufacture is problematic. Some report backing off the battery cover 1/8th of a turn will help. Not very encouraging for product longevity in my opinion.
Just had the same issue. Sent back the pedals, spent a fortune on the return shipment. After the replacement I’m considering selling the pedals and moving over to quarq. Measurement is reliable, build quality is questionable.
For me, it is getting enough of Garmin.
I’ve been getting dropouts on the right pedal where I use additional spacers to balance the R/L Q-Factor. I’ve gone back to using only one spacer which I need to keep the spindle end from contacting the chain and will see what happens.
This may have done it. I replaced the batteries and so far the communication is good. I will try a few more rides before I say that it’s fixed. I have read similar issues on garmin forums and this was the thought and it still didnt work for everyone
Nick, have you been in contact with Garmin? Has the problem gotten worse with time. I’ve had my V3s for 2 weeks. They were perfect for the first two rides. Then, started getting “right pedal sensor missing over and over during a training race. That went on for a couple or three rides before the Edge 520 started reporting — Watts. Now, that’s all I get. “- – – Watts”.
I’m also using an Edge 520 with ANT+ connection. No Bluetooth at all. The Cadence also goes away occasionally with the pedal power indication. Garmin tells me that with the Vector3s, I do not need cadence sensors. That’s fine for outdoor riding, but Zwift needs cadence that comes from my Garmin cadence sensor.
I really don’t want to send these back for a refund. I absolutely loved the pedals for the first 2 or 3 rides. I’ve never had a power display and recording before . . . it was marvelous. But now, after spending $1,000.000 for this set of pedals, I am feeling very frustrated.
Ken
Just to clarify Ken – have you removed it from Garmin Connect Mobile?
Though, you should 100% be seeing it in Zwift assuming the firmware did properly update, which tells me something is amiss that doesn’t actually match what other folks are seeing. Perhaps the firmware update failed and only updated one side? You can double-check this on your head unit looking at the sensor details.
@Ken and @DCRainmaker
I have gotten in touch with Garmin and they are sending me a redesigned battery door. I will keep you all updated to see how it performs. I will probably ask them to send me the left side as well, but for now I will see how right side fix works.
-Nick
I think I’ve removed it from the Garmin Connect Mobile. Not sure how to tell. Will work on that subject this evening when I go All-In to try to get the Vectors to work again. I’ve purchased some new batteries, even though last time I had a status on the Edge 520, it indicated that both pedals’ batteries were fine.
By the way, I cannot seem to log in to your blog. When I try, it doesn’t recognize my email address or username. I tried “lost password” and it cannot find my email address. So I tried registering (even though I’m pretty sure I’d already done that) and it says that my email address already exists.
NO JOY.
First, I bought a new set of batteries for the right pedal. Measured the voltage of the existing pair at 2.75 volts. Then measured the two new batteries at about 1.5 each. Combined, they measured at 3.1 volts. I don’t think the original batteries were in need of replacement at only 1/4 volt lower than brand new ones.
The battery connection points are really dinky. But I could see witness marks in the dielectric grease on the contacts and on the positive side of the first battery in the hole. It appears that they contacts are indeed making contact.
Spun the cranks. A red LED in the left hand pedal glows briefly, and then it goes to three green flashes (indicating that it cannot find the right hand pedal). Every 10 seconds or so, 3 more green flashes. It doesn’t matter how much pedal/crank spinning I do, the right hand pedal isn’t waking up. In fact, I think it’s muerto! (dead). I’ve never seen any LED activity from the right-hand pedal. Granted, I never looked during the few days that the pedals were functioning.
So here I sit . . . . with a $1,000 set of power-indicating top-of-the-line pedals that don’t function. Really disappointing; especially after waiting so long for them and exhausting my toy budget to buy ’em. Oh well. I hope Garmin comes up with a fix soon. I fear that mine will need to be replaced since the right pedal shows no signs of life at all.
I have similar issues. I find that my cadence (and therefore power readings) are more stable/smooth when bluetooth on my phone is turned off (the phone is in direct vicinity of the my head unit). When bluetooth is turned on, there are occasional spikes while pedaling very steadily (indoors!). Sometimes there are also no cadence (nor power) readings at all for a few seconds, as described by other users.
At least for me, as soon as I turn bluetooth off on the phone, there seem to be no more spikes (nor 0 readings) and the numbers are less volatile.
For information, I updated my Vector to the latest version, I use a Garmin Edge 520 and my phone is a Galaxy A5 2017.
As far as I can tell so far, it feels like a bluetooth or interference problem…
Did you de-pair the Vector 3 pedals from the Garmin Connect Mobile app?
There’s some sort of bug in the latest version causing it to hold open the connection and trigger drops.
Ray, thanks for your quick answer.
I tried that on my next indoor ride. De-paired the Vector 3 and maintained bluetooth on on the phone. There were no drop-outs and no spikes. So that bug-thing might indeed be the reason. I’ll keep a close look during the next rides…
However, cadence feels sometimes too unstable (even with bluetooth off). For example while riding steadily around 90 rpm, it might suddenly jump to for example 94 then 87 for a couple of seconds. It’s not dramatic but it does feel weird. I don’t have the impression my Powertap P1 did that.
(You’ll find this post a second time further down the page, it came up on the wrong location, sorry for that).
Slight fluctuations at +/- 1-2RPM is pretty common even for super stable peddlers, but 3-4RPM (for a total spread of 7RPM) is a bit much. One thing to validate is if you’re also seeing power fluctuations there from a trainer, as that might cause variations that might have a ripple impact.
(No problem on duplicate, just took care of it. Thanks!)
I dd that for yesterday’s 3 hour training ride, DCR. And using the pair as a Vector 3 S, it worked wonderfully as a single-pedal power meter. I haven’t seen that result in weeks.
I’m amazed that it still impossible to get hold of theese until March at the moment here in Europe. Wonder if they are so incredibly backed up with orders, have a low production yield or if it is so complex that it’s hard to produce at high enough numbers
I’m in the US and ordered a set from a well-known online retailer in late December, and they have been on backorder ever since. The ETA has moved from mid-January, to early February, to late February, and now to early March.
No one seems to have them in stock currently. My new bike will be arriving in the upcoming weeks, and I’m currently riding indoors on a Computrainer, and I also have a number of wheelsets built with Powertap G3 hubs, so I can be a little patient. But I’d like to have some time to get used to the Garmin pedals indoors before the ice and snow goes away and I finally can get outside, as I’ve used Speedplay pedals for decades and I’m sure there will be a period of adjustment.
I’m thinking that if I can’t get the Vectors in the next few weeks, I may have to reconsider the Powertap P1 pedals or another option.
Do the pedals need a torque wrench as in vector 1&2 – these needed 35-40nm torque when installed or the power values were invalid?
One of the Vector3 main selling points over its predecessors is that they no longer require a torque wrench for installation, although Garmin still recommends it.
If you read Ray’s review above you’ll find that he tested them at a range of tightening torques and apparently the consistency was rock solid.
I installed mine with a torque wrench, but that’s mainly because after blowing 80€ on it i’m itching to find excuses to use it.
Is the weight limit of any practical concern if your normal weight? And how does that limit transfer to watts? Will the reading be off after a few years of use?
I’m 70 kg btw.
Still not available to order via Garmin US, and EU stores show a “Processing time is 3–5 weeks” blurb.
Doesn’t look like Garmin’s getting anywhere close to meeting retail channel demand yet.
Great write-up. I have a Garmin 1000 and am using both a cadence and speed sensor. If I go with the Vector3 pedals, would I need the separate cadence censor sensor if the pedals already provide that info? Or if I did keep the cadence sensor on my crank arm, would I then have two cadence readouts — one from cadence sensor and on from pedals. Thanks in advance.
Kye
Encinitas, CA
Vector 3 will provide that, so no need for the cadence sensor anymore. You’ll only be able to get one cadence sensor reading anyway.
Now if it’s a combo sensor, then keep the magnet on there so that you don’t get zero-values coming off the cadence sensor.
Whereas if it’s a seperate speed and cadence sensor (two units), then go ahead and remove the cadence sensor if you want.
Hi!
Thanks for nice work during many years!
I am considering buying Garmin Vector 3, mainly for indoor spinning use both at home and in my cycling club’s training studio. I have a silly question: Since this is a dual side system, would it be possible to set up one pedal (e.g. the left pedal) on one trainer/bike and the other one on another trainer/bike? I guess there must be some redundancy in any case, whenever the battery of one pedal dies before the other pedal’s battery. If it’s possible to use the pedals separately like this it will actually give me two power meters. Or: Is it too good to be true?
Best regards,
Inge H.
No, you need the left pedal to be the master.
I’ve had the Vector 3 since late December. Initially everything went fine. They were easy to install and gave accurate readings. They provided a great deal of data, some worthy of contemplation and some not worth my attention. The pedals are a bit stiff on the spindle but it’s not a major issue (less than 1 watt power loss) and they seem well placed when I need to engage. The cleats appear to have more float than my equivalent Shimano cleats and I will experiment with alternatives. (Note, I’ve used Vector 3 only on actual road rides where I average over 200 miles per week.)
Problems, however, began with the first battery change. The change itself was easy having read other users comments and being sure to treat the battery compartment gingerly, ensure correct placement of the yellow o-ring, and not over tighten the end cap. (It’s not rocket science.) Unfortunately though, I began to experience dropouts almost immediately thereafter. The dropouts grew in frequency to the point where the data and the Vector 3’s were useless. I searched the Garmin forums and discovered that others were experiencing the same problem following a battery change and found that none of the suggested fixes (mineral oil on the batteries, tape, backoff 1/8 turn on end cap, etc.) were working consistently. Moreover, even if these fixes worked, the fact that users would have to preform them and that the problems were occurring so early in the product lifecycle suggested a serious problem. (If this occurs with the first battery change what about after the 7th or the 30th?) I contacted Garmin and the very helpful representative reviewed my data on Garmin Connect, confirmed the problem, _stated that it was a known issue_, and immediately exchanged the pedals.
The replacements arrived quickly and I promptly installed them and went for a test ride. Sadly, I experienced and have continued to experience frequent dropouts with the right pedal. I checked the torque and ensured that the spindle end was clearing the crank arm. (I went from using two spacers to one which is the minimum I require for chain clearance.) Everything with the installation is correct but again the product is unusable.
I’ll call Garmin today and see what its support team suggests. Unfortunately, I suspect that there is design flaw in the battery compartment and that the issue will become widespread as users begin replacing the batteries. Sadly, I cannot recommend the Vector 3 at this time.
A similar experience here. Left pedal not spinning freely after 2 months and lots of use. Garmin have offered an exchange when they have stock – end of month apparently. In the meantime right hand pedal has dropped out on a couple of occasions which I rectified by disconnecting and then reconnecting the pedals after removing and reinstalling the batteries. However the battery covers are a real issue to refit and tighten as they tend to cross thread and you need to proceed with extreme caution to avoid damaging the thread or shredding the yellow o ring.
I’ll reserve judgement until after the replacement set and Garmin have been very helpful but after reliability problems with the V1s first time round I’m yet to be convinced.
Hello, Robert:
Thank you for your information. About the thread, I know the external cap of the batteries hosting is alluminium made. But what about the internal piece where the external cap is screwed? Is also metallic or is plastic?
Thanks
It appears to be made from the same material as the pedal body. Garmin is sending me replacement battery doors and PCB boards.
Hello, Ray:
I’ve seen lots of messages (various in this post) about problems with the pedals related to the battery change: dropouts, problems related to the cap thread, with the yellow washer, with the metallic contact piece, etc. Also apparently Garmin knows these issues. In my case I purchased on January 5th the Vectors, but they have not still arrived, because, as from powermeter24 have said, Garmin have not yet supplied (they receive some pedals apparently next week). But I’m affraid because I have no idea if Garmin has yet fised these issues.
Have you any information from Garmin about?
Yeah, I wrote up a long comment somewhere, but it must have been on a different post.
In short, I don’t know the specifics or how widespread the problem is. I think some people are discovering it now because it’s about the first time they’ve needed to change batteries. It sounds like Garmin has changed the battery caps a bit, lately, and they are supplying different caps to folks that contact support with an issue.
I don’t think it’s a blanket ‘everyone is broke’ sort of scenario on batteries, as my battery change was simple and straight forward (I just did one a touch over a week ago). Took less than a minute, no issues since.
I do know from way back in the beta cycle that both I and the Vector team individually discovered slight differences in batteries. Meaning, not all batteries are exactly the same, and fit slightly differently. The pods are supposed to be designed to handle that, but there may be cases where they don’t properly – which perhaps the new battery caps deal with. It’s on my to-do list to reach out and see what the proper story there is (or perhaps Shawn from Garmin will comment here).
Garmin’s fulfillment process is incredibly quick. So if PM24 says they’re getting units to start going through backorders next week, that means those units are likely not yet even produced (or being produced today/tomorrow). They’d then be sent to distribution centers over the weekend, and from there at retailers within 1-2 days depending on if the retailer has paid for expedited shipping or not.
Keep in mind, that weekly process has been happening since October, every week (except for Chinese New Year, the previous two weeks).
As always with forums posts, I’d put them in context. If you count individual user names (and people that are actually having problems versus just being concerned about having a potential problems), and then do the math on how many units are shipping per week (my guess is 500-1000 units per week, maybe more), then you’re talking relatively tiny numbers. Not broken situation ideal, but context is always important.
Just my two cents.
I wouldn’t minimize the concerns we have. Garmin Engineering has a file open on the issue, but I’m a week plus with no reliable power data. If you haven’t had an issue yet, consider yourself fortunate. In my opinion, the problem is more than a hardware defect with batteries or the battery case. There are software problems related to GCM and the Vector version 3.0 firmware as well. For version 3, this is a major f* up by Garmin. I would not recommend this product at this time to anyone considering it.
It’s not minimizing, it’s simply putting it into perspective. It’s more or less just a numbers game.
There’s a thread on it on the Garmin Forums, I count 10 unique individuals on this thread. That’s it. Let’s say there’s a few more here and there that are also having issues. A few people having GCM connectivity related issues, but that’s sorta a different bucket.
And how many have shipped? Let’s assume 500 units a week since mid-October as a minimum till first week of Mid-Feb (my bet is that’s double that, but that’s OK). So that means 16 weeks give or take, or roughly 8,000 units in the wild. So 10 in 8,000. To me, it’s all mostly a numbers game.
As I noted above, obviously, Garmin thinks there’s something to it, given they’ve redesigned the battery caps. But I don’t think it’s world-ending. Hopefully, Garmin can shed some light on it.
Time will tell how great a problem or combination of problems this is but let’s keep in mind that only a small segment of users have had to replaced their batteries to date and only a very small percentage of those experiencing problems will post here or in one of the Garmin forums. The fact that one has to be very careful when replacing the batteries so as not to over-tighten the cap, strip it, or damage the yellow o-ring does not bode well for long term durability. Looking at 8-10 battery changes per year x 2 x the number of users and that represents a real issue for Garmin. In my case, I experienced complete dropouts after the first battery change. Garmin immediately replaced those pedals but the right replacement pedal experienced dropouts from its very first use. (No battery change required.) I worked with Garmin support today to document the problem, review the software on my pedals, iPhone, and Edge, pull the batteries so the units could reset, reinstall the batteries, hand tighten the caps, recalibrate the pedals, and take the bike for a test ride. Still right side dropouts. Garmin downloaded the additional data, escalated the issue, and says that it will get back to me within 24 hours. In the meantime, the pedals are not only worthless as a power meter but are turning out invalid data that I’ll have to clean-up less it alters my fitness metrics.
Hi Ray,
That’s great that you’ve put it in context, but eventually, the no. of problematic customers is increasing daily on the forum. Everyone is really-really frustrated. Mine worked just fine in Dec- Jan. Then the battery drain issue came, after this, the battery door on the left pedal and finally the whole system went down 🙁 Not to talk about the issues with fw 3.00, which is causing drops and peaks.
A better metric would be how many people reached out to garmin, the forum is a weak metric I think. I was really happy with mine, they were accurate, stable, but after 2 months they just gave up.
We’d really appreciate a communication from Garmin if they admin the issue if they’re investigating it and will figure out something for the existing customers.
In my case it’s maybe too late anyways…I’m considering selling the brand new ones and never go back to the garmin world 🙁
As Ray states above, the battery change is a fairly simple process and should not cause any problems. We are actively reviewing reports of battery door issues and researching returned products. We encourage anyone who is having issues reach out to our support team for us to investigate their concerns. We appreciate the continued excitement and discussion about Vector 3.
Sure, but you have quite a few problems being reported on multiple forums. You shouldn’t say the process is easy when you’ve got people doing the following things under advice from Garmin support:
– needing to pry up the battery terminal with pinky
– needing to tape the batteries with electrical tape to avoid rattling
– needing to put baby oil on the battery surfaces to bond them
– need to replace some sort of transparent contact tape on the inside
– needing to backoff the caps 1/4 turn
I’m super happy to see Garmin is being responsive, but I would not go so far as to say the procedure is “fairly easy”. Its fairly easy if none of the above things go wrong.
Hi Shawn,
Yes I agree it should be simple, but not it is not 🙁
Garmin has one of the best support teams I’ve ever seen, which is awesome and really enjoyed the discussions, honestly. However, there are a few of us who has to send back the 2nd set of the pedals and that’s usually a whole lot of money if you have to send it to a different country. In my case, the first set’s shipping cost was 5% of the total pedal cost. All the hassle with the pedal + sending them back and hoping for a better one, simply just incovenient and expensive and btw unacceptable from a user standpoint.
Dear @Shawn, thank you for your answer. I would like to ask you some questions related to the pedals issues exposed in this and other forums, and the steps taken by Garmin about.
You said that Garmin is reviewing the reports about the battery door issues, but has yet any solution? Are the pedals sent this weeks any upgrade (battery door, metallic contact piece, washer) or are the same as the December version?
@Frank has said in post #355 that he sent his pedals to Garmin and he has paid the shipping costs, which were about 50 €. Are the shiping costs not covered by warranty?
Thanks
Hi Ray,
Do you know what the OEM batteries are that the Vector’s ship with? I remember reading somewhere that they may be manufactured by Varta but I may be wrong. Which battery manufacturer did you replace yours with? I have used Duracell LR44’s and they seem good.
Just thinking that if like-with-like are replaced, it may help.
Thanks,
I replaced with Duracell LR44s and so far so good
(1) Let me second the kudos to Garmin support. Although they have not yet solved the issues they are certainly being responsive and reasonable. (2) As to the batteries, I use Energizer LR44’s. (3) I am unaware of any hardware changes having been made to the Vector 3 since its release. If someone knows differently I would appreciate the details. (4) The battery change is not complex but one does have to be careful not to over tighten or strip the threads of the cap and to ensure that the yellow o-ring is properly placed and undamaged. I understand that there is also a clear tape strip and conducting pins that can be easily damaged but did not notice these components when I changed the batteries. Regardless whether these factors are related to the dropout issues, I think that the design of the battery compartment and its components lacks durability and might cause long-term headaches. (5) As to the dropouts on my right pedal, bear in mind that that pedal is part of a replacement pair that I received from Garmin after my first set failed following a battery change. Unlike the original pedals, the new pedal experienced dropouts without my ever having made a battery change, Inexplicably however, after a brief initial dropout my right pedal appears to have worked solidly yesterday over a 50-mile ride. No changes were made to any of the factors since the preceding day when I was getting dropouts every minute or two. I suppose that I should be happy about this spontaneous resolution but gremlins bother me more than understood problems. I need to trust my components and not be waiting for something to go wrong. In any event, I’m waiting to hear back from support regarding this new information.
@Robert, what about the shipping costs from you to Garmin and back again?
I paid it but it was far less for me since it was entirely domestic. I imagine that I could seek reimbursement but it is not worth my time. If I have to return the second pair I will certainly resolve that issue upfront.
Hey, i AM interesten in the Garmin vector 3. Bud Will this work on me edge 800? And if yes, can i see the left and the richt power on this edge?
Thanks !
Hi Johan, yes it will work. L-R option is there, cycling dynamics is the only thing that you won’t see on the 800.
If you interested in them more in-depth reach out to me in private. godoferenc at gmail dot com
Hello guys,
I am a Garmin Vector 3 user since almost a month now. I have been lucky enough to spot a small batch of Garmins arriving at one online store here in Germany(bike-components) and have ordered a pair (imemdiatelly after they went out of stock so lucky me I guess :)).
So far everything good, I have done about 5-6 rides (due to bad weather here in south Germany) and the power metrics seem very consistent. Moreover I have no dropouts. I didn´t update the firmware yet (I am I gues of v2.3…) as I read many of the users have reported problems after the update. I am using the Garmin V3 with the Wahoo Bolt unit. But I am getting really concerned reading more and more posts of people which have to change the batteries, and after that the pedals just give up completely. I haven´t changed mine as I have done probably around 14 hours of riding. But what will happen when I need to change them? I am an engineer and I do not fear the process itself, moreover I am quite handy and skillfull with hands, but it seems that the procedure is way too sensible, with minimal tolerance accepted, and seems like even if you do it by the book, there is a great chance that things will go wrong. And the proposed solutions I read of taping the battery compartment, baby oil between the batteries, etc…..this is just not a robust product and solution, and excuse me if I say but this is not an engineering solution expected from a product that costs 1000€. I am only hoping that as I got mines in late January-early February, they may be from one of the latest production batch, where Garmin has already addressed the battery cap/replacement issue. I will keep you updated once I need to replace the batteries.
@Frank: And regarding the need to send them back, in such cases where Garmin admits there is a problem with that specific set of pedals, they should include the shipping costs, it seems only natural that someone like Garmin should do that for their customers covering the shipping expenses, and not make them pay 5% (around 50€).
@Garmin: please consider that very serriously!!!
@DCRainmaker, I agree with other users, the forum here is not relevant enough to quantify that out of 8000 units only 10 have been reported (one needs to consider first, out of the 8000 how many have actually needed to replace the batteries? I for one, am one of those who didn´t have to do this process so far…)
Bottom line, I am somehow worried,but I hope though that it is all in vein. I will post an update once I need to replace the batteries.
Cheers guys, and hope to have good news to report in future!!!
I understand that the battery change may cause problems or may fix them. I am lucky enough to have seen my drops stop after my battery change. My biggest concern is that these battery doors seem to be WAY too delicate. I don’t know about the rest of this community but I race pretty regularly and if you have any kind of accident, the most likely thing that will touch the pavement will be the edge of the pedals. I am seriously concerned that a moment of scraping will break the battery door and render the pedals useless. Does anyone else have my fears? This product almost definitely WILL BREAK if and when you have an accident/crash.
@DCRainmaker I would love to hear your opinion on this. This type of issue is pretty negligible to most other PMs though other pedals do have similar potential. I am just so worried that the vectors can’t handle the slightest scrape.
What’s funny to me about this whole battery thing is I actually changed my batteries almost every other ride all summer on earlier prototype units (there was a battery short problem in some prototype units, which was resolved by late summer).
I changed them on the side of the road, in small shops, outside an RV, in the Cave, everywhere. Just never had any issues. I also undid the batteries multiple times on the final production units this past fall for photos and videos, also no problems.
Not saying people aren’t having some sort of issue – but I think it’s probably overblown.
As for scrapping the battery pods, both the P1 and Vector 3 do have their battery doors in the same spot. I don’t actually think the battery door would be your biggest issue in a clipping crash. I suspect other concerns around accuracy would be a bigger issue (damage). But even then, it really hasn’t been the issue a lot of people thought it would be 5 years ago when Vector/etc were first announced.
As for slight scrapes? My bike falls over constantly taking photos (seriously, look at some of my recent photos to see how scraped up my Vector 3 pedals are). No issues.
RE: Shipping/etc (from above)
I do agree that companies should cover shipping costs to/from consumers when the product/issue is caused by the company. When it’s caused by the user, then the user should cover it. In this case, I presume it’s a company-driven issue, thus, they should cover it. Though, I’m not entirely sure how one spends 50EUR on shipping unless it’s overnight. Within Europe I presume you’re sending to Garmin UK’s support center, though maybe Germany handles them internally.
Speaking of which, Garmin actually has a support policy that allows you to do what’s called a ‘cross-ship’, which means that you provide a credit card and they ship you a new device straight away. Then you’re given the RMA number and as long as you ship back your device within a set period (30 days the last time I did it), then your card isn’t charged. You can even request fast shipping. Perhaps there’s not enough inventory for Vector 3 at this time, but typically Garmin keeps inventory on the site for support.
RE: George
I guess it’s tough because in some ways your post sorta illustrates my point. At present your pedals are working just fine and dandy. But then people might come along and skim and think that you’re having a battery problem given the length of the post, when in reality your talking about the potential to have a problem that you read about. But not actually having it. It ends up being somewhat of a feeding frenzy over actual people exhibiting the problem.
Just my two cents.
Hi Rainmaker,
Thanks for your extended feedback on mine and on some other replies.
But I think I was quite clear when I said that I DO NOT HAVE PROBLEMS/ISSUES with the Garmins, I am just worried and it seems that I am not the only one here. The length of my reply was so, because I wanted to address several topics (such as availability, battery compartment/battery replacement issues/shipping costs which the consumer needs to address apparently,etc…).
Anway, let’s keep fingers crossed and hope that what was so far reported as faulty, is indeed as you suggested just a infinitesimally small fraction (10/8000) and that this will not increase as more people start changing batteries.
Me I am 100% satisfied with the Garmins so far, no dropouts, good consistency of the power data, battery life seems to be at its max(even though my rides ave been done in 0ºC averages), so I only hope for the best.
Cheers!!!
@Ray:
Shipping: It was actually 43 Euros, and it is simple. Budapest, Hungary to Southampton, UK shipping with Hungarian Post for 2-4 business days with insurance for the half of the price of the vector.
If I went for 5-7 days that would’ve been 33. And since I wanted to arrive there fast + secure I opted for the more expensive one, but the problem is not with the price, it’s with the policy.
Or it’s possible that you’ve been very lucky. I am now on my second set pedals and have experienced dropout, power spike, standing vs. seated, R/L balance, and other issues from first use. In other words, before any battery change. For the time being I am willing to work with Garmin and have given them access to my files and tried several suggested fixes, none of which have worked. I appreciate Garmin Support’s responsiveness, want the company’s product to be successful, and ensure that other purchasers have a great experience. Hopefully, a resolution will be forthcoming soon.
@DCRainmaker So I lightly clipped the pedal yesterday in a race on a turn and the pedal completely stopped working today. Right pedal will pair to the other but after pairing, it does not report any power data and I will keep getting errors during calibration basically stating that the pedal is not working. Going to get rid of them now.
Yeah, I’d just give Garmin a ring and see what options they have for you.
I ordered the Vector 3’s in early January and it looks like they will be arriving sometime next week. After reading some of the recent posts, my excitement over the new purchase is moving towards trepidation. Is there any way to know whether the product I receive has the new battery cover? Thank you.
Hi,
Ray, how’d you recon Vector 3 would behave on a track bike?
Any hope of ever seeing a SPD MTB power meter pedal from Garmin or PowerTap?
Thanks a lot for your website and video, i’m a french cyclist from britany, i loved your review, video (And shane miller’s too !) Thanks to improve my english and spend my money. After reading yours articles, I want to buy The power meter Vector 3 and the Gps unit Wahoo Bolt element. I’am afraid to loose some informations “cycling metrics’ and others. For you and your readers is it a clever choice or i should take the garmin 520. Thanks a lot. Hope to see you one day on the beautiful road or beach here in Britany (Bretagne)
Haha this is freakin’ funny….Garmin..solve the refund I don’t care how. Never again a vector.
Dear Ferenc,
I refer to your recent enquiry concerning the above.
I am contacting you regarding your RMA
Please be aware we do not currently have stock of the replacement item until early April.
I am sorry for the inconvenience caused, unfortunately we do not currently have an alternative.
Thank you for your patience.
Another dynamite review – thank you DC for putting in all the work! So I’m contemplating the Vector 3 pedals, but it appears they don’t work or they don’t work well with elliptical chain rings (like my Rotor QXL). Just how much do the elliptical chain rings effect the readings? A little? A lot? I ask bec I’m considering the Garmin Edge 1030 and would like to take advantage of all the technology.Garmin has to offer. But, this development throws a wrench into my plans.
Correct, and actually, most power meters don’t support oval rings. Only a handful do (PowerTap hub, PowerTap P1, ROTOR units and questionably Power2Max).
It’s not a ton, but is variable based on cadence. Here’s a bit more detail: link to bikeblather.blogspot.com.au
Any word on when these will actually be available to purchase? I can’t find anyone who has them in stock. Production seems extremely slow.
They’ve been shipping since the second week of October. They mostly got caught up around Christmas, but since then things went downhill with the supply vs demand ratio. It doesn’t sound like they’ll recover from a production standpoint till at least April.
They are still shipping each week though. In a nutshell if you’re looking to order a pair it’s best to get a an order in with a retailer (since Garmin prioritizes that over Garmin.com), and then wait till they ship. Garmin generally focuses on shipping to retailers with active backorder queues.
Hi, I bought a dual sided Vector 3 and installed the pedals this week. I use an Edge 500. It paired with the Vector 3 straight away so I did two rides indoors with them I then analysed my rides and discovered that my L/R balance was 100%L therefore the Right pedal isn’t recording anything. I noticed during my second ride that the right pedal lights were flashing Green/Red alternating throughout the ride. I tried using the Android app to connect to the pedals for more information but when I did the connection would not go through and then the LEDs on BOTH pedals would flash Green/Red alternating. I haven’t touched the batteries and calibrated before both rides though I did get an error when calibrating on the first ride, I think it was error 514? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Your best bet is opening a case with Garmin support. That way they can either figure out a quick fix, or ensure you get a long-term fix.
I think the error codes are also listed on the Garmin Forums too.
Thanks Ray for another great review.
I have just purchased a set of vectors through clever training with your discount code.
Thanks again
greetings
Timo
Thanks Timo – appreciate the support! Enjoy!
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the deep review. I ordered from CT mine (With the DCR´s VIP membership!) . They should be shipping hopefully sometime this week. I’m a little bit scared about possible failures since I ordered on CT USA from Spain… lets get fingers crossed.
I’ll pair them with my Edge 820. I feel that this computer is quite slow in general, not really “responsive” (An really slow if you are following a map (It was a nightmare in the last Powerade nonstop Madrid-Lisboa),
Do you see real advantage upgrading to the 1030 from a computing speed point of view, and why not, from a feature improvement as well?. As far as I read there’s not a ton of new features in de 1030 over the 820, but just wanted to know your opinion about it. The size of the 1030 does not thrills me, but if is worth it, I may think about it. Other point would be waiting and hold the 820 until de launch of the 830… If the improve the speed would be worth it. Anyway, don’t think they’ll launch an Edge 830 until next year or so…
Thanks (and sorry for my English!)
I have my Vector 3 now for 11 weeks.
2 things…
The LR44(duracell) batteries are only lasting 30-35 hours, not 120+.
The battery cover is a pain in the neck. Though im being very careful and never over tightening them, the 4 flimsy O rings have already disintegrated, its very awkward to get the batteries out, and the battery cover now turns in the pedal housing before even getting snug.
Vector 3 dual sides low battery warning after 40 hours.
I’m using with ANT+, no BT, no cycling dynamics.
And this is a replacement unit, the first one has been replaced after 10 days because right side zero measurement.
Looks like a very bad product!
Here is an update to the issues with my Vector 3 pedals. The first pair worked fine until I replaced the batteries after approximately six weeks of use. Then I started getting dropouts that grew more frequent and longer until the units were largely nonfunctional. Garmin confirmed the issue and swapped the pedals for a replacement set. The second set suffered right pedal dropouts immediately. (Before any battery change.) Garmin again confirmed the problem and had me reset the pedals by uninstalling/reinstalling the batteries on both sides. Although the dropouts became less frequent there were still a number of anomalies including right and left dropouts, power spikes, and miscalculation of standing/seated times. Garmin reviewed my daily workouts and had me send photographs of the high pedal interior and exterior battery cover threads. According to Garmin support, a preproduction issue was identified regarding problems with the battery cover threads that the company thought it had solved. Unfortunately, they are seeing this same problem in some of the pedals suffering right side dropouts. Garmin will now be sending my a third set of pedals that I have been assured will be inspected for any battery cover thread issues before shipping. Here’s hoping the third time is a charm.
Similar problem here. Right pedal drop outs preceded the first battery change, following the battery change I’ve had some very erratic readings and right pedal connection loss. From day one (late December) the left pedal has not spun freely. Garmin offered a replacement for the stiff spindle before the drop outs started occurring but now do not have stock until 3rd April. They have been nothing but professional in my dealings with them however following a warranty refund with the original Vector S and now these issues my confidence is evaporating and surely you need to believe the data a power meter is giving you. This is also the critical period for me for power meter based training. Tempted to go back to the retailer for a refund on exchange for Quarq or similar. I have commented on the spindle issue here before so this is an update rather than a new user with concerns/issues.
Garmin states that it will now send me replacement battery doors and PCB boards rather than a third set of pedals. Certainly a less costly and time consuming fix if it works.
I wanted these pedals really bad but then I started reading the Garmin forums and seeing people complaining about the battery life, drop outs and power numbers really make me thing if this product is even ready to hit the market (I mean it’s probably not because the release date is being pushed back every few days – I know you can get single units somewhere, but in general it’s very hard to find).
I’m not sure what’s the call in this situation – whether I wait for Garmin to sort things out (will they?) or do I just get Favero Assioma Duo.
Thoughts?
I’m in the same boat. Have been thinking about the Vectors for a few months and been closely monitoring the reviews and issues here.
I had originally planned to buy the Vectors vs the Assiomas. Because of the better BLE compatibility with Strava and Zwift.
My reasons not to buy the Vectors now are:
1. I own a Wahoo Bolt now, which has Ant+ (no more need for an iphone and a BLE connection)
2. troubling issues (drop outs, batteries) with the Vectors
3. the Vectors are still not available in Germany
I am leaning towards the Assiomas. They have a battery pack (which suddenly sounds very easy and convenient), they are cheaper and available. I like the looks of the Vectors better but thats only a minor point for me.
Couple hundred miles on mine so far and no issues.
People with no issues tend to keep quiet. Its the ones with issues that make noise on every website out there.
Couple hundred…
We’ve been there, pls replay again when you over the first thousand.
I certainly wish him luck. It’s totally frustrating to have gotten addicted to having such good data and goals; to have completely lost the ability. I’m still going through withdrawals. And mine only worked properly for a little over 300 miles (mostly indoors because of lousy weather).
We have added the FAQ link below that gives some recommendations for how best to replace batteries and some troubleshooting steps.
If you do encounter repeated problems or if you identify mechanical damage with your parts, please reach out to your local Garmin support team.
link to support.garmin.com
This is super helpful!
So when users are reporting backing off the cap a quarter turn, they are actually fixing an alignment issue with the positive contact prong with the positive contact pads on the PCB? So Over/under tightening by even a small amount will cause them not to be aligned? Or is there some mechanical limits on the threads that prevent this from happening?
The battery contact mechanism is self-aligning. Backing off the battery door does not impact the alignment.
Seeing this FAQ, now I’m really glad that I’ve sold my Vector 3 after replacement. Honestly…I had fewer issues with Vector 2S, considering all the torque, pod things.
If the users need 1 page long FAQ about a battery replacement the product is so to say crap.
Shawn, I appreciate this helpful response but the added information only highlights my concerns. How is such a fragile mechanism, one that is already suffering issues, going to withstand years of hard riding and scores of battery changes? Need I really have a magnifying glass, toothpicks, and mineral oil on hand for every battery change? Will this mechanism ever be made idiot proof and durable?
Changing the battery doors without damaging them shouldn’t be a concern to anyone that takes care. They’re not that fragile. If you don’t take care to not cross-thread them and don’t torque down beyond “good and snug”, replacement of the batteries should be easy and fool proof.
I worry more about clipping a pedal or falling while riding where the battery doors will be the second or third thing to hit the tarmac (after hips and shoulders).
My Vectors aren’t working, with “Right Pedal Sensor Missing”; so I’ve had the batteries out of both several times to try to diagnose. So far, no luck; but they’re sending a new pair just as soon as they can get some in their replacement stock.
Perhaps take it to a watchmaker and make ask them to change the battery, they are used to work with tiny fragile things. Some just have thick fingers or clumsy hands.
I’d like to say something good about the Vector3 pedals.
They’re the easiest and quickest pedals to clip into than any pedal I’ve used in the past 12 years.
NOW, that may be due to the fact that I’ve been using Dura Ace pedals for the past 12 years’ and that I’ve missed clipping in several times and had to bridge up to the racing pack several times. In one race, I missed it three times in a row while the race left me at the line with my left pedal invisibly spinning.
Yes, bridging up at light speed to a crit pack that was out of sight probably made me stronger; but it wasn’t a fun way to start a race. I could see my entry fee evaporating with the blur of the spinning pedal, not once but 3 times!. The race went around the corner and was out of sight before I finally regained my composure (in front of the spectators, by the way), clipped in, and began my chase. How embarrassing! So much adrenaline ws in my blood that I flew by at least a half dozen riders that were dropped or in the process of getting dropped on my way to rejoin the pack. Whew. This was one of my most memorable crits. . .. all because of my inability to clip in first time and the chase back into the pack that surprised everyone (including me)
With these Vector 3 pedals, I have never missed a clip-in. Without looking, the pedal always seems to be in position and my cleat has inserted and locked every time. I should have changed away from Dura Ace pedals to this style long ago.
Since I haven’t heard a peep out of the right pedal in a couple of weeks, I wonder if I can use the pedals at a set of Vector 3S pedals until Garmin fixes whatever is wrong with them?
Did that yesterday then even the left pedal stopped giving readings. Give it a go – good luck.
If you pull out the batteries from the right pedal, you will get 3s operation.
Ken – just to clarify, have you opened up a case with Garmin? I didn’t see that in your previous comments.
Also – for fun, go out and buy a set of DuraCell 357 batteries and swap them in…just a hunch from a bird.
Thank you, DC.
Yes, actually I have. Several chat sessions and finally I broke down and called on the phone. They were very customer-friendly and Kate seemed genuinely interested in helping me.
They’ve analyzed my Garmin Connect data and told me that I’m experiencing the same issue(s) on which their engineers are working.
and just Saturday, I got an email letting me know that a new pair of battery holders are coming and for me to try them and report back.
This shall henceforth be known as The Great Coin Cell Confusion of 2018:
In you review, Ray, you mentioned basically: Go fo LR44. Now, the birdy’s Duracell 357 is an SR44. To confuse things even more, Garmin appears to be recommending Energizer SR44 (link to forums.garmin.com).
Ray, help! If you happen to have a coffee with the good people from Garmin could you ask them to clarify things? I am happy to run my own test but am a bit nervous regarding the battery change – this appears to be a possible source for trouble, albeit not very frequently from your experiences.
The birdy I’m hearing is what support is telling folks right now. I suspect it’s mostly about size right now, and less of a concern about other factors that led to the LR vs SR recommendation. Meaning, I suspect that the Duracell 357 is probably a ‘known good’ from a manufacturing standpoint.
Though, I’ve gotta believe the battery pod/cap tweaks that a few users have had would probably account for more variation in battery production than the current ones.
I circled back about two weeks ago with them for lots of details, which I sprinkled in comments and such here. In general though, they’re saying that the number of impacted people is very small (at least those that have opened up tickets/cases/Garmin Forum posts), relative to the number of units shipped. Which is roughly the same conclusion I’ve come to with different data (obviously, their data is better than my data on this topic).
At the same time they do seem very aware that it’s a problem and are working on solutions (as seen by users getting new caps) to address it. They did note that they *really do want to hear* from folks experiencing issues, mostly because they want to ensure their tweak covers any outliers.
Finally, I don’t see the pods as fragile as all, and honestly still don’t understand that concern. I see them as not covering all their bases on a battery standpoint (meaning, the variances in models people find in stores), which has more or less led to everything you see here.
Note, it sounds like the GCM issues are a separate bucket – which I kinda agree with. That sounds more GCM-specific than Vector 3-specific. Which isn’t so much a case of shifting blame, but just being a technical person and knowing where that issue lies.
Again, I’ll circle back to them, since it’s been about two weeks.
>> I don’t see the pods as fragile as all, and honestly still don’t understand that concern.
Hi DCR! I’m concerned about a product that I pay £850 for (minus your CT code – thanks!) where what should be a simple battery change operation requires a lengthy FAQ post (link to support.garmin.com), with all manner of potential pitfalls such as dislodging little pieces of insulating tape, stripping threads from slight over-tightening etc, needing to use baby oil…
None of this should be a concern on a premium priced product, and it’s disappointing that Garmin did not sort these issues before releasing to market. Seems like a similar strategy to how they release their firmware upgrades which, in my experience with numerous Garmin fitness products, exhibits lax or no QA checking.
I’ve not yet had to change my batteries, and frankly am dreading having to do so. My 60 day CT returns window closes on 20th March.
I think in this case Garmin is kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t. To me, the FAQ seems like more a way to try and consolidate boatloads of forum posts (here and on their on forums) into a single cohesive place to answer questions (thus – damned if you do).
As they note directly in that, they’re working on a fix. But that FAQ is a pretty good spot to consolidate tips on how to deal with ‘the now’ for those that get in a pickle.
In the same sense, as I stated elsewhere, I think now I’m just seeing a lot of posts about people concerned about said pickle, but not actually being in a pickle. Meaning, it’s sorta the swirling effect of ‘What ifs’, or ‘I might have this issue’, when in reality, the vast majority of people (my guess is 95%+) aren’t having said issue.
For fun, if you’re concerned about the return period – you can simply change your batteries now. No harm in throwing a few new ones in there, my guess is it’ll be a non-event.
Ray, I appreciate your expertise, understand your logic, and certainly hope that you are correct. But MY numbers suggest a different story. When my first set of pedals failed (R/L dropouts following battery charge) that was a one-off. When the second set had problems (occasional R side dropouts and intermittent anomalous data) out of the box that was a red flag. Then when the repair kit (battery door and PCB) for the second set made matters worse (extended R side dropouts and anomalous data) that was a revelation. What are the odds of this presuming that, for example, only 1 in 500 pedals are “bad”? Which is more likely, that I am the Garmin lottery winner or that the problems are fairly endemic? Less there be any doubt, Garmin support has access to my data files and has confirmed the issues. They have seen the returned parts and the photographs they requested that I take. We’ve communicated regularly by phone and email. I’ve even been on the phone with them while together we’ve tried troubleshooting not just the pedals directly but the Edge, the phone, the app, and the environment. I am continuing to work with Garmin but until the company actually provides me with a solution I will stick with my conclusion.
Thank you Ray, for keeping us up to date (mine are still going strong and working as expected).
I have had my 3S for a couple of months now, done around 1200 miles on them mainly in awful weather. I am happy with how they have performed. The battery changes have been fine but you do have to be careful. I had a drop out on one ride and Garmin support advised me on what to do fix it and it is now sorted. I had some drop out issues on an indoor trainer but that was due to my set up and 2.4GHZ wifi interference.
With the abuse I have thrown at them in the conditions I have ridden, I have been impressed with how they have held up.
The data has been really solid and reliable and I am fitter as a result. I have really enjoyed using them and when I bought them I expected there to be issues from real world users, being such a new product.
I guess only Garmin know how many people are impacted with issues compared to units sold but I hope these things can be ironed out for those that are having the problems.
So many negative comments have been piled on the Vector 3 pedals that I’ve held back so far, but I have just wasted another three hours on them. I’ve had it.
My Vector 3’s have suffered from most of the troubles reported here. I first installed them at the end of November 2017. The factory provided batteries lasted for less than 40 hours. It has always taken a long time and multiple tries to get the pedals to connect to any of my devices: fenix 5, Edge 510, HTC U11 Android phone, iphone 6s plus. Only the Edge 510 was sometimes quick to connect. Most rides indoor and outdoor have been plagued by frequent dropouts that are long enough to invalidate the data. The right pedal would often disconnect. GCM on Android crashed every time I tried to update to the 3.00 firmware. GCM on ios would always tell me that 2.30 is the latest version.
None of this seems to have anything to do with the integrity of the battery compartment cover in my case. It looks perfectly happy even under magnification, every time. The contact points inside the pedal show just a bit of wear from the two positive contacts at the edge of the battery retainer. The pedals have not reported any errors. The LED’s blink the way they should.
Then finally today with the latest version of GCM on Android the 3.00 firmware actually downloaded to the pedals. The download completed message showed up and a notice that the pedals would disconnect to complete the update. That was the last I ever heard from the pedals. I can finally send them back. I removed them and re-installed them. I removed them in the software, unpaired them, tried to pair them again, etc. … all in vain. All of this after waiting for about 60 minutes for a sign of life from the pedals after the disconnect message. Apparently, they are doorstops now. They sometimes still blink for entertainment.
The following are my concerns that I want to share with anyone considering to buy the Garmin Vector 3 pedals: (1) You will be advised to use only channels 1 or 6 on any 2.4GHz WiFi device near your indoor trainer in order to avoid interference. I’m surprised that the FCC put its stamp of approval on a device that will not work reliably around other 2.4GHz devices. (2) Garmin might continue to ship unreliable software releases, GCM on Android comes to mind. (3) Garmin’s fenix 5 sapphire edition appears to be a terrible match for the Vector 3 pedals. I’ve gone on rides where my Edge 510 recorded OK while the fenix 5 had huge problems with drops. (4) Battery life will almost certainly be much shorter than Garmin claims. (5) You might not get valid power data from the pedals for all the reasons mentioned above. (6) You might waste as much time trying to baby your Vector 3 pedals as I have and all for very little in return.
I’m really beginning to consider canceling my order on the garmin pedals and get Favero Assioma instead. Because of what I’ve read about the fragile battery container, having to apply oil each battery change and batteries not lasting as long as promised. And also where the battery container is placed may be more exposed to damage. The favero solution just seem better when it comes to this. Also the interference problems with WiFi.
I’ve looked at the comment section on Favero Assioma here on DCRM website and there are very few complaints. AND the Favero pedals has been out longer.
The only thing holding me from not switching is more data on garmin and perhaps better integration with the garmin eco system.
I don’t even know for certain how long I must wait to get the garmin pedals and the price on favero is better.
What do you think guys?
As a vector 3 owner I’m considering to claim my money back.
I didn’t buy a 40 hours battery life product,
I don’t want to use a baby oil when replacing the batteries,
I won’t tolerate a drop outs and power spikes.
I was in the same point choosing Vector / Assioma – looks like I’ve got the wrong choice.
In my eyes the V3 offering looked a little to good to be true.. Now I’m actually pleased my initial ordering of them at CT Europe fell into the “memory hole”, and were cancelled by them. Waiting months then for Wiggle to get them in stock, I have certainly become more skewed to going the Quark route. Perhaps stacking two coin cell batteries on top of each other in something that’s subjected to both vibrations and sometimes rapid shifts in temperature (like storing your bike indoors, and then going for rides in winter climates), were just a bad idea. Never seen this done in any other electronics before.. Cycling dynamics is cool and all. But in the end, it’s just data that no one as of yet has figured out any way of making good use of. It is also nice to be able to use whatever pedal/cleat combination I like and still have power readings. Sometimes I prefer using SPD on my road bike, for the sole reason of being able to walk in MTB/touring shoes.
I replaced the right pedal PCB board and battery door with the replacements provided by Garmin. On the first ride everything appeared normal on my Edge but there were some possible anomalies in the data that I’ll have to review with support. These include very brief periods of 0% power from the right pedal and standing periods that I can’t recall from my ride. Also, unlike simply replacing the batteries, removing and replacing the PCB board _is_ delicate; the two bolts holing the board in place are extremely small and the board itself must be correctly aligned. It’s a paradigm shift of working on bike components to working on electronic components. This is significant since removal of the PCB board is necessary to service the pedal bearings and thus is a process that most users will encounter down the road. Despite my best efforts and utmost caution I might have stripped one of the bolts. Never mind that the bolt was set properly, turned normally, and tightened with fewer rotations than I required to remove it. This reinforces my primary concern regarding what will happen with these delicate components overtime as they wear and are subjected to high stresses, changing temperatures, indirect ground contact, and repeated removals and reinstalls as users replace batteries, service bearings and spindles, etc.
Robert, I am about to do the PCB change. The issues you are experiencing on your first ride seem to be identical to the issues before the switch. Any additional rides? This seems terrible.
Second ride since replacing the PCB and battery door. Forty miles. A complete bust for the Vectors. Frequent, long dropouts of the right pedal beginning at around three miles and concentrated in the first 25 miles. Inaccurate standing time. Constant notices of right power sensor loss which I finally stopped selecting. One low battery notice which is contrary to the sensor information and highly unlikely as the pedals are nearly new.
I have tried to work with Garmin on this issue. I have been supportive of the company and laudatory of its customer support. However, this is literally strike three–first set of pedals failed, right pedal of replacement set failed, and now the PCB and battery door replacement failed. The odds against this happening with an isolated problem are so remote as to be nearly impossible. I cannot recommend the Vectors, I will be returning my Vectors. I think Garmin should remove the Vectors from the market until it corrects the problems.
That is very discouraging. VERY!
Garmin sent a new set of battery “doors” to me, except that somewhere the wires got crossed and they sent a couple of pairs of O-rings. I contacted them and they’re going to try again, this time with the doors. From your email, I’m not expecting any joy.
For full refund, to whom to send the pedals? Garmin? or the dealer? I’m not giving up yet, but will soon if they can’t resolve it. BikeTiresDirect.com has a 60-day money back guarantee. I’m about 30 days into it.
I am outside the return window with my retailer but have a good relationship there and think that we could find a solution. As some point though, Garmin bears responsibility if it cannot fix or replace its product with a working unit. In my case, they’ve now had two unsuccessful opportunities to do so. I’m curious to know what they’ll suggest next but cannot have my performance and training data become further skewed by the Vector’s.
After 4 weeks of dead and useless Vector 3s, I received the Battery Door & Holder kit for both pedals and attempted to install today. The flimsy insulating tape on both holders fell off when installing new batteries. This is a cheap design and/or a manufacturing failure. 4th call to Garmin Support seeking to escalate today. I really want these to work but I’m reaching the end of my patience.
My experience hasn’t been as bad as yours but nevertheless my confidence in them is sufficiently undermined for me to have returned them to the retailer. An £850 product should work, period. I can’t get a new pair as there is no stock at the moment and I’m not convinced I wouldn’t experience the same issues again in the future and at a critical point in the training calendar. I now have to decide whether to save some money and go for a single sided option such as Stages or get a Quarq Dzero. At least while the Vectors worked I could see I have a near 50/50 L/R balance most of the time so in theory single sided is good enough.
I’d be interested in any thoughts on the this latter point.
I decided to cancel the order due the multiple problems users are experiencing. And (take this as a reprimand for Garmin) warranty is not global. Something incomprehensible for a company that claim as a global company. I was buying in the US from Spain, and with the perspective that I will have to use the warranty almost for sure, this won’t work.
I’ll wait for a few weeks and see if Garmin fixes the issues, and if not I’ll go for the faveros.
FWIW: Garmin’s warranty is global as long as from a authorized retailer, however, when in the US it’s a 1-year versus a 2-year EU warranty period.
Really? I guess this must be new. I had trouble in the past with a Fenix 3 bought in Australia and the Spanish Garmin branch refused to repair it because the unit wasn’t bought in the UE (It was 6-7 months old).
However, I will check with Clevertraining.
Thanks for the comment!
You’d be the first I’ve heard of Garmin refusing a warranty claim when purchased from outside the region. Not saying it can’t happen with a random customer service agent, but I’ve yet to hear anyone in all the years doing this note an issue.
My guess is that on paper policy it’s probably not permitted, but there’s probably also a policy that says not to enforce it unless they believe there’s some sort of fraud/etc going on.
Maybe.. unfortunately, in Spain we don’t “Stand out” for our customer services quality in general…
In this case, the Fenix was bough, as far as I know, in a respected Australian shop and had the invoice. On the phone the clearly told me the wouldn’t fix mi watch because It was bought in Australia.
Well, besides that, I’d love to buy the vectors, but I’m afraid right now they’re having serious issues. Maybe the % of customers suffering them is so low, but don´t think so. I’m on a very well respected forum about bikes (mtbr type) and there’s a thread about the vectors and for what I read, it seems the problem is not an isolated issue.
In any case, I’ll wait for a few weeks and see…
Thanks!!
Just canceled the Garmin pedals now. Assioma Duo on the way.
Ray,
I’d be curious to hear your take on the issues (short battery life, battery door, dropouts) folks are facing with the Vector 3s and whether or not you still think the number of issues being brought forward based on the number of units produced is insignificant.
I’m really interested in the Vector 3 pedals but have some hesitations based on the issues being brought forward.
Thanks!
Jesse
+1
Hi Guys-
See my comments from yesterday up here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Still, will be looking to get more updated details as well.
Thanks!
I saw the Ray’s review of Specialized Power Cranks where he’s using Favero Assioma Duos for a comparison and they look super solid, they track really close to the Specialized PM.
Wonder how the Vectors would fare..
I actually used Vector 3 for my initial Specialized beta testing. In fact – little known secret: If you look at my very first Vector 3 preview post where it says ‘4iiii power meter’ in the accuracy section…that was actually the Specialized power meter. 🙂
It is interesting how/what people read on things though. The Specialized post actually made me notice an interesting bug/quirk in how Assioma handles short 1-2 second power stoppages that I hadn’t seen before (read: It doesn’t). A few people in the power meter industry e-mailed me after that yesterday and had some comments on what specifically that is and why it happens, but something that my riding conditions didn’t pickup previously (I mainly saw it on a shared bike path with lots of turns, so I was constantly stopping/starting pedaling).
In any case, I didn’t use Vector 3 with that review simply because I have the Vector 3 pedals on my other bike right now for the upcoming Shimano power meter review. I typically don’t like to move pedals back and for every day, because I don’t want the settling period (however small) to impact my data sets such that every data set is a settling period.
Yep. You can also look at the Assioma in-depth review instead of nitpicking bits of information from other power meters reviews and reach same conclusion. Assioma’s are super solid power meter. And ironically often criticized rechargeable battery might be it’s secret weapon against it’s closest rivals.
Things about Assioma putting me off:
1) Possible problems with pods – I might need additional cleat shims
2) I’ve read it’s pretty hard to clip-in instinctively (the way the pedals weight is distributed supposedly makes it hard to “predict” how to clip in without looking). Pretty sure it’s an exaggeration, but who knows..
I recall that the early Garmin GPS units, like the eTrex, were not reliable when used on a bicycle. They had removable batteries (AA cells) which would temporarily lose contact during cycling induced vibration. Garmin provided a battery compartment spacer to reduce the effect of the vibration on the batteries. It was not 100% effective so I added a crude capacitor circuit to compensate for the temporary loss of battery current. Garmin eventually moved to permanently installed, rechargeable batteries for cycling applications. In addition to the convenience of being rechargeable and offering higher capacity, a battery that is permanently affixed to the circuitry is unlikely to be affected by vibration.Stacking the two batteries in the Vector 3 battery compartment could be contributing to the drop out problem.Garmin discusses “fretting” in their best practice note. Fretting can lead to contamination resulting in the batteries intermittently losing contact with each other or the battery contact springs. I’d hate to think Garmin is relearning an old lesson.
After the clearance issues encountered with the BePro pods are a thing of the past, imho the pods are actually a STRONG point of the Favero offering. When cycling, and especially racing, you are going to crash sooner or later. In my experience, each time you hit the deck, the pedal on side you go down, takes a heavy beating. Unlike with P1s and V3s, with the Assiomas its only the easily replaceable pedal body that will be dingged up or destroyed, not the electronics and/or the weak battery cap. Also due to the external electronics servicing the Assiomas (replacing bearings, etc.) is like servicing any other pedal.
Ray,
I want to get back to you about these stoppages – what do you think of them? Can they fix it by firmware update? Did you send your data to Favero? I’m kinda close(r) to getting Faveros than I’ve ever been before and just want to make sure it’s gonna be a good purchase.
I haven’t had a chance yet to ask them about it. Just been slammed trying to get a pile of reviews ready for the next 5-7 days. Sorta a death by a thousand cuts thing.
I have zero doubts that *could* fix it in firmware, but whether or not that’d be near-term is a different question. Sometimes things that seem straight forward….aren’t.
That said, I’d note that it really only surfaces in the very limited scenario I noted above where i was constant stop/start-pedaling on a bike/ped path. It’s not something I even noticed this past summer while doing plenty of city/mountain/etc riding.
I see.. Okay, thank you, I’m a bit relieved now. I have just emailed them myself (I’m interested as well). If I get a chance to see the reply I’ll post it here. I know the situation is extreme, but if it can be helped then let’s help 🙂
I’ve got the reply today:
“Dear Marcin,
Thank you for your email. I am glad to tell you that my colleagues already knew about the article and had the chance to further investigate the topic.
Virtually every model of power meter has a different instantaneous behavior in short pauses (even thought, when it comes down to the average power nothing should really change).
This different instantaneous behavior of Assioma is a direct result of some technical design choices, mainly the type of measurements filters (stability over reactivity-oriented), the ANT+ configuration (event over time-based), the ANT+ Power message type (crank torque CT over power-only PO, and others) and the measuring point (Dual over single-sided).
From our experience, there is no best or worst choice in absolute terms, just different trade-offs and advantages depending on the specific situation and the general use of the power meter.
This is to say that, although we can understand it may appear “aesthetically” unpleasant in this specific case, we definitively do not consider Assioma’s behavior in short pauses as a sign of inaccuracy, but mostly a sign of our power meter’s ANT+ protocol implementation which, in our tests, proved to be able to guarantee an excellent measurement stability in the overall road cycling experience. This fact seems to be noticed and appreciated by both bePRO and Assioma’s end users.”
Garmin support continues to say the issues are from early manufacturing problems, only affected a small percentage of units, and that those units are no longer in its inventory. It is sending me a third set of pedals after the new battery door and PCB failed to correct right side dropout problem with the second set of pedals.
I find that hard to believe.
My pedals were on backorder until finally being sent to BikeTiresDirect and shipped to me on February 20th.
I don’t know how to decipher the serial number, but I’ve always assumed that the shipment of pedals to BTD came from the most previous lot.
I believe there was a actually a change relatively early on that addressed some issues, but that doesn’t/didn’t include the most recent change for newly updated caps/pods that people are receiving via support if they have issues.
As DFWKen notes, basically anyone shipping Vector pedals out today are from units they probably got that same day from Garmin. They’re so significantly backordered that no stock is sitting around unless it’s in some random local bike shop somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
Got the battery door replacement and the right pedal won’t work. Still left to using just one pedal. Pretty disappointing. Got back in touch with Garmin. Hopefully they will be replacing the pedals next.
My Vector 3’s are defective. I bought a set of Vector 3’s and after spending a month with Garmin’s support team helping them troubleshoot the issue, they narrowed it down to a defect in the battery compartment. Apparently lots of customers are having this issue. Rather than simply replace them, Garmin is shipping a new battery compartment and asking me to fix the pedals on their behalf. The only problem is that the repair kit is out of stock so i have to wait for them to get more.
In summary, i paid $1000 for a defective product that Garmin now wants me to spend time fixing on their behalf, but only after they get enough stock to send the repair kit to me. Disappointed.
I’m not expecting battery “doors” to fix the problem. They haven’t fixed anyone else’s issues. I got a notice that they’re back-ordered until the end of March. I notified BikeTiresDirect that I will probably be returning the pedals for a full refund just before their 60-day return period is over and that so far, Garmin hasn’t been able to help.
I’ve swapped the batteries in the holders between the two pedals several times and it didn’t help anything at all. The right pedal sensor is still missing and all of my power readings are approximately half-power. 0% right pedal power.
Either the retailer or Garmin needs to give me a plan and money-back protection against ending up with a faulty product. That’s the only way I’m going to keep ’em (unless there’s a miracle cure really, really soon.
Have any readers had a battery door, battery holder, or PCB replacement fix their Vectors and, if so, approximately how many miles have you ridden since the successful repair?
Has anyone tried CR1/3N batteries? There is a post on the Garmin forum suggesting that it may be worth trying.
link to forums.garmin.com
New battery door/pcb didn’t make a difference. Garmin is going to send new pedals but they are out of stock until mid April.
Hi Ray.
Having seemingly got my Atom and Vector 3 aligned, did a 2 hour ride on them both.
While power readings were close at the start, by the end Vector was reading 5% below the Wattbike.
Any reason why this would be happening?
Thank you
That’s a super tough one to determine the correct one to assign blame to (or just, the correct one). A couple of things I’d look at:
A) Vector: I presume crank length was set?
B) Workout structure: Were there any breaks/rests in here, or was it two hours straight? I ask because a break would give auto zero time to kick-in on Vector
C) Temp shifting? Any changes in temp for the room? Typically Vector is pretty good with temp shifts, though I didn’t test temp shifting on the Atom simply because the room I’m in is pretty stable (sometimes I’ll be in places like this week whereby the temp is very much NOT stable in the garage, but that wasn’t the case with the Atom spot).
Unfortunately, it’s going to be super difficult to figure out which is which here, especially since the Atom design doesn’t permit any other power meters to be placed on it. :-/
I’m done waiting . . . and the risk seems too high that the V3 are going to have a problem. I’m going with the P1s. It’s a known product and been working for a couple years, and it has more analytics than the Faveros.
Meanwhile, I’m just sitting here… a super happy V3 user with no problems. Nobody ever posts that – or rarely. Yeah, I’m nervous/excited about my first battery change. But whatever, these pedals rock for me so far.
Thank you for posting this. My V3 didn’t work out of the box, so I’m waiting for a new pair anxiously. I really want to like vectors and I hope garmin will sort them out.
I feel like I’m piling on at this point, but given some of the comments about the issues being related to early production runs, I wanted to add that mine were shipped from Clever Training on February 28th and they experienced all the greatest hits list (right pedal missing, dropouts, long stretches with no power, power spikes) right out of the box. I hadn’t touched a battery compartment. I gave them six rides split between indoors and outdoors, but only had two that were usable.
I’m a big Garmin fan and know they will eventually figure this out, but for now, the Vector 3’s are going back to CT and I’m going back to my Vector 2’s.
Got my V3 duo’s from Clever Training late December. Had one minor spike, but no dropouts.
Changed the batteries recently after 2000 km / 66 hours. No issues…..
I’m (still) a very happy user.
Thank You Ray for a fantastic job and thank you guys for posting experiences, tweaks, questions & answers
I got my vector 3 pedals from CT end of February. First ride only had power readings for 12mins, then right pedal not found and losing readings on and off for the next 2.5 hours.
Next ride 50 mins with correct readings, then power and cadence spikes with lose of readings sometimes for a few minutes and sometimes for longer, and this is before any battery changes. Sending them back today.
Did you try de-pairing Vector 3 from the Garmin Connect Mobile app?
Given you haven’t likely touched the pods, your behaviors sounds exactly like the known GCM issue.
Ray,
Thanks for the quick reply. My pedals have never been pair with Garmin connect mobile app.
According to what i’ve been reading apparently some batteries are better at minimizing the issues than others? Not too concerned with duration if that prevents dropouts, spikes and any of the other problems. Can someone tell me which batteries these are? Brand and model? Ideally reference number?
So far so good with my vector 3 duos, but I just got my first low battery warning and I’m pretty weary of the whole battery change process…
@nHerrero, I’ve had success with Duracell LR44 and Varta LR44. Only issue I have ever had is with the low battery warning appearing after about 40-50 hours riding, although the head unit says the battery levels are ‘Good’. I swapped them out anyway.
Not tried SR44 varients yet but have some in reserve for the next battery change.
Just be careful with the battery change – Garmin’s FAQ on that is good though.
I’ve got the battery warning after 40 hours too.
It’s keeps on showing up when using the pedals, and disappears between rides (indication goes back to full).
I’ve decided to go with this until the batteries will die.
So far, I’m reaching 70 hours with no spikes, no drops, and very accurate measurements.
Yeah,
Now that I’ve unpaired and disabled the right pedal sensor, I’m getting low battery once on every ride; usually with 15 minutes of starting. I click “OK” and don’t see it again until 10- – 15 minutes into the next ride.
I measured the voltage of the pair to be 2.75 volts, nowhere near needing to be replaced. Guess I’ll just ride on until it quits.
By the way, using the Vector 3 as a Vector 3 “S” is providing pretty good data. Maybe I should have bought 3S in the first place instead of waiting 2 months for the Vector 3’s to be available and then dealing with weeks of problems from them.
Could I put these on my Peloton indoor trainer, and get an accurate output? Or is there an accounting for resistance and weight of the flywheel that needs to be considered?
I can’t think of any issues there. I used them on the Wattbike Atom indoor bike without problems.
I ordered the Vector 3’s directly from Garmin, in Australia, on 5th Feb.
7 weeks later, and the expected shipping date has slipped twice. Now they’re saying mid-April. I’d bet Garmin’s decided that given the issues, they want to ensure no problematic units land over here. In IT we say security through obscurity. This is one advantage of living so far away!
Every single online store in Australia is showing backorder, and I’ve only ever seen one pair in a random shop in the ‘burbs here in Melbourne. I sure hope nobody buys them.
This has given me a chance to have a second look at the Assioma’s, and I’ve built up a fairly good list of pro’s to doing down this route:
– Cheaper AU$200-500 depending on where you look
– Greener (rechargeable)
– Cheaper to run (rechargeable)
– Lighter (30g, if you consider weight of batteries!)
– Installs with 8mm key, one less tool needed for travel
– The pedal itself looks to be better designed; better bearings, better protection from the elements, more easily serviceable with spare parts readily available from Favero’s site. The pod being on the inside also means if you take a tumble, it’s only the replaceable body that gets banged up
– Lower stack height (10.5 vs 12.7)
– Data looks to be really accurate and consistent
That’s a heck of a list, Ray! 😉
If only those pods were just a little bit smaller…
If I were a betting man, I’d bet Vector 4 will come out with a rechargeable battery and sensors on the inside too.
Vector 3 is the best thing happened to Favero Assioma…
Yeah, I don’t think there’s ever been any debate that the Assiomas are a solid pedal. And my entire Vector 3 vs Assioma vs P1 pedal post from the past basically can be summed up with: Which look do you prefer?
For the most part, the major reason people do or do not pickup a pair of Assiomas hinges on the look of the pod and whether it matters to them.
… forgot to mention above:
– Support for oval rings…
The one single thing that is keeping me waiting for Garmin’s are:
1) Report as a single unit over Bluetooth in Zwift/TrainerRoad. (Has Favero fixed this?)
2) The Favero pods look a little unsightly with Campy cranks – they seem to be far more suited aesthetically to Shimano cranks.
1) It’s the same on the vectors.
Are you sure? Vector 3 reports as a single entity. Whereas Assioma reports as two units last I checked a few weeks ago.
Then it seams Favero has fixed it. Have dual Assioma, but I don’t have Zwift yet.
Nope, they haven’t. I just checked with latest firmware and latest Zwift via BLE and it shows as two separate units – left and right. Vector 3 shows as one.
Well, from my experience I’d steer well clear until the issues are resolved. I bought my V3’s a few weeks ago and they have consistently dropped Bluetooth & ANT+ signals. The longest they have maintained any connection is around 20 minutes.
I’ve followed all the advice of deleting the Garmin Connect App, changing my wifi channel to avoid interference, etc etc but in short I have paid $800 for a pair of dumb pedals.
My picture is an image of what looks like a particularly spiky interval session, but was in reality a steady-state effort.
Garmin support is shocking – they can take up to a week to respond, and when they do it’s not exactly enlightening. They have advised me there is a known software problem but have not given any eta for a fix.
So, with regret, I’m going to return them to the shop and look for an alternative, the Assiomas look a likely candidate. This was my first & probably last Garmin purchase.
Sorry to hear you have had some frustration with your Vector 3 set Chris. Please reach out to us at social@garmin.com and we will help get this sorted out for you.
Is the Garmin 810 compatible with this pedals?
In theory, yes, they are compatible with the Edge 810. However, the beta software update released today to address some of the reported issues excludes the 810.
Placed my order for the Vectors last December, had to wait until mid Feb for delivery but everything worked fine out of the box. However, the batteries lasted nowhere near the claimed 120hrs, i had less than 30hours use before i got the battery low warning. Having seen the reports of issues following battery changes i was very very careful when changing them and first ride with new batteries was fine. Second ride was not. The right pedal was ‘missing’ and the power figures were all over the place with constant drops. I contacted Garmin and tried all their suggestions, including sending .fit files, but ended up having to return them. Replacement set came last week. First few rides were fine but then i started getting the right pedal missing warning again. Garmin suggested a battery change, despite only a few hours use, and low and behold, following this the numbers became inconsistent, frequent drops and pretty much unusable.
Garmin support have tried to assist but these are not exactly cheap to purchase so i have decided to get a refund and will try an alternative. Very disappointing as they seemed the perfect power meter.
I’ve just received confirmation my set are faulty and have decided to forgo a replacement set and get a Quarq instead. Shame as it won’t easily move between bikes but I’d rather have accuracy and consistency. Nothing worse than the readings going haywire 3/4 of the way through a threshold session. So that’s both Vector 1s and 3s that have failed on me in the last few years.
Well mine were good until the battery change. Totally dead after that. I followed their special directions.
I put in a case with Garmin and told them in my original notes that I followed the special directions. After days of no response, I got an email back, giving me the special directions for battery changes. Ugh. I think they are overwhelmed with this and not even reading the tickets before blasting back with the battery change notes. Might have to return these which will leave me without pedals.
I just received a new pair of Vector 3 pedals from Garmin under warranty. I’ve installed them on a bike that uses PowerCranks – nothing to do with a motor – cranks that have a clutch mechanism and turn independently from one another. Each leg is on its own for turning its crank. My first 6 minute test ride created a very interesting .fit file. I’ll investigate tomorrow and report back.
Interesting. Though honestly I’d be pretty surprised/impressed if they work on that, given the oddities in rotation that occur with PowerCranks.
It won’t work right unless each pedal independently counts cadence, and I doubt that’s the case since there’s no reason to do that with normal cranks. If most of the time you’re using them “normally” then it should give a pretty good approximation.
any updates on the GV3 with Powercranks?
I’ve had the Vector 3 for about a month and experienced the same issues as others. First an occasional drop while indoors on the trainer, changed batteries and seemed ok for a couple rides and then back. I took them on a week training camp in Cali, worked for 2 days and then the right pedal went missing and then totally dead. Bummer, when they worked they were great. Going back to Garmin, in MHO they’re not ready for release based on the number of reported similar issues.
Before you send them back try to use a CR1/3N battery and follow the checklist on the Garmin forum post #153
link to forums.garmin.com
It seems that a lot of users have had battery related issues. The CR1/3N battery is a Lithium battery with good low temperature performance and very low internal resistance. It could solve your issue while Garmin sorts out the bugs.
Already frustrated with a Bryton 310 GPS, when power readings from the Vector 3 became abnormal, it was the last straw and reason to invest in an Edge 520 hoping for a more compatible connection. Unfortunately, it took spending $250, on top of the $1000, to demonstrate the actual problem was in the pedals. $1250 is meaningful to me. All of this was before removing caps and replacing batteries. Have now, still without success.
I called Garmin, they couldn’t be nicer and are sending new PCBs to replace, although backordered and continuously pushed further back due to the high demand. This is a significant problem.
Please be sensitive with words like “overblown” and “10 unique individuals on THIS thread” as though that’s some sort of definitive sample size. With enough individuals detailing their challenges on here and on Garmin, there’s really no need for me or possibly many others to comment further. The comments that are here from the handful of “unique individuals” are incredibly valuable however to see what’s working, if new options have been discovered, if the replacement parts have been effective, etc. Thank you all for contributing.
I value your reviews and purchased through CT. Neither are responsible in any way adding to feeling no need to complain to you.
But please be careful not to minimize. There are a lot of frustrated customers with this right now. Out a good chunk of change. Practicing a lot of patience.
I just now received an email from Garmin that they have a new beta firmware for the Vector 3 pedals that is supposed to address the issue of Right Pedal Sensor MIssing due to conflicts between Bluetooth and ANT+ along with a form to download if any issues are experienced.
I’ll be trying it out tonight and tomorrow indoors since we have 2 full days of rain here.
Today we released a public beta for Vector 3 that addresses the known software issues that caused spurious right-sensor-missing messages, poor connection behavior, and unexpected power dropouts. Please see the link below for details.
link to forums.garmin.com
I installed the public beta for the Vector 3 last night. After finally getting the new firmware into the Edge 520 , it finally tried to update the pedals. Then, it said that there wasn’t enough battery to do the whole thing (takes several minutes). I had to re-pair the right pedal since I’d unpaired it to get some single-pedal usage from the set since 2-pedal usage didn’t work. That took a while because the ANT+ ID isn’t conspicuous. Garmin helped me locate the ID number and then it paired instantly. The number is etched into the spindle where the wrench torques it into the crank arm. Very, very tiny.
Bought new batteries today at Walmart and carefully inserted them. This is set #4 since purchasing the Vectors . . . I don’t ride THAT much. ;>).
IT WORKS! This is the first time my pedals have worked since early February when I bought them.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Garmin has corrected the firmware issues and this will be a solid fix.
Shawn, I downloaded the software and saved the 006B278703.gcd file in the \GARMIN\RemoteSW folder of my Edge device in the location specified but when that device recognizes the Vector 3 it does not tell me that new software is ready to install. What now?
Hi Robert,
Please reach out to us at social@garmin.com if you don’t get a follow up email this afternoon. Thanks for reaching out.
I received a followup but, unfortunately, the recommended steps did not work and I remain unable to upload the software to the pedals. Three sets of Vector 3s, PCB and battery door, near daily calls and emails with support, countless hours invested, and they still do not work properly.
I struggled with the recommended steps as well. But after installing another new set of batteries, unpairing the pedals from the Edge 520, re-pairing them, (maybe more than once, it was getting frustrating), re-pairing the right pedal . . . . suddenly the lights started going red/green/red/green and the update completed.
Today, I did 80 miles and I do believe that the pedals worked properly. I got one Right Pedal Sensor Missing just as I rolled out at the start of the ride and one Low Battery indication, but after that, no issues at all for 4 hours of hill riding. I’m very encouraged. At this point, there’s no reason to return the pedals to BikeTiresDirect for refund. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
OH, but I don’t understand why the message of Low Battery when I measured the pair of batteries to be 2.6 volts (no load). Seems they should provide plentiful power down to at least 2 volts.
Thank you for your valuable review.
So, I was able to get my 2nd set of Vector 3s finally working for 3 consecutive rides after replacing the batteries (dead out of the box) and turning off Bluetooth on my Edge 810. The public Beta release doesn’t work for the 810. According to Garmin Support, the software update should be released to all platforms soon.
In the meantime, Garmin Support has been very good about explaining their current state of knowledge, their plan forward, and improving my faith that they are working diligently on a number of fronts to address the issues at top priority. My synopsis of today’s discussion with them; manufacturing tolerances across battery manufacturers and even within a particular brand is problematic for Garmin. The battery housing design is not robust given those problems and may end up being re-designed. The Engineering team is working towards a long-term solution.
Yup, in a discussion with Verve (maker of the Infocrank power meter that uses the same battery types) back a week or two ago in-person, they showed me two 3rd party testing reports from a single battery manufacturer showing two things:
A) That batteries that were even branded the same identical battery model from said well-known and respected maker, produced dramatically different battery characteristics. In some cases, the battery only gave 20% of the prescribed duration.
B) In Verve’s case, they found that batteries differed in size as well (as Garmin has stated too). Verve was lucky in that most of the time their battery compartment design handled it (but not always).
This also ignores the whole LR vs SR bits as well as finding said batteries. As you might expect, Verve basically said that any future power meter designs would definitely not use that battery type again. It might have even been phrased “over our dead bodies”.
Which isn’t to say Garmin can’t get around the design issues (certainly, they seem to already be working on it). And of course, ultimately it’s a tradeoff between size and overall pedal design.
Ray,
Have you seen any issues with your Vector 3 pedals. There are a lot of reports about battery and firmware issues from many users both here and on the Garmin Forum.
Have you not seen any issues with your pedals?
I had a single ride back about 2-3 weeks ago, where I got many of the same symptoms as others around dropouts. But I suspect that was because about 4 weeks prior I got a low-battery warning on my right pedal and replaced only the batteries in that…but stupidly not both pedals (thus violating a well understood and mostly unwritten ‘rule’ about always replacing all batteries at once…).
After the ride with the dropouts I simply swapped all batteries for new ones, and everything was fine for all rides since.
These pedals are from standard retail store, and not anythin provided by Garmin. Nor are they running any special firmware, just whatever is on production (and not even the latest beta one either).
Thanks for the feedback Ray.
It’s all a bit confusing. I am waiting for things to sort out with these pedals before placing my order. Garmin is addressing the battery size issue with a re-design of the battery holder and has recently issued beta firmware to address dropout issues. There is something going on for sure. What is strange is that some user have such serious issues while others, like yourself, seem to be OK from day 1.
I will wait a little longer to see how this sorts out. If you could talk to Garmin to see what is going on I am sure that we would all be interested to hear your take on the firmware and the new battery holder vs the old design. Some pictures of the old vs new design would be very interesting.
I suspect the battery size thing purely comes down to dumb-luck with battery purchases. I’ve largely purchased name-brand batteries for my production unit (Duracell/Energizer). Though in prototype I purchased all sorts of random no-name batteries (without issue).
See my comment just about about what Verve (maker of the Infocrank power meter) had to say about using this battery type. In their case they were lucky in that their annuals power meter volumes are less than what Garmin puts out in half a week or so. Said differently: Nobody hears that tree fall in the forest when users have issues.
Thanks Ray,
I like the Verve assessment of the LR/SR battery type “over our dead bodies” would they use this battery type again. It will be interesting to see how Garmin sorts this out.
One option for the Vector 3’s is the CR1/3N battery which is a lithium battery with a 10 year shelf life. Only 1 battery is needed per pedal and it seems to have solved some peoples battery issues on the Garmin forum. I think that Garmin is not too keen about this approach since the battery is harder to find and can be expensive. Not a good marketing strategy. It does however have good cold weather performance and has a detailed spec sheet. The LR/SR batteries are mostly used in calculators, where the electrical load is really small and is therefore only specified at room temperature and very low currents. The CR1/3Nbattery is used in cameras where it is exposed to outdoor conditions and has a more detailed characterization. I have attached some datasheet links.
LR44 – link to data.energizer.com
CR1/3 – link to mouser.com
Thanks for your insights. I think that I will still wait a bit longer to see how all of this gets resolved.
Thank you Joe for the battery insight. The CR1/3N is working. Right pedal is reading again. Things look good. After 2 rides.
The software download was not seeming to have effect. New PCBs, battery caps and O-rings still being sent out but hopefully they will not be needed.
I recommend others giving this battery a try.
Thank you to all who contribute suggestions to resolving this. DCR and Shawn@garmin both for sure.
They’re available on Amazon for about the same price as a pair of LR-44s. I assume that CR 1/3 means 3 volts in 1 package. (LRs are 3 volts from two stacked packages).
As quickly as the Vectors run out of battery, I doubt they’ll have much opportunity for leakage.
I replaced my left pedal batteries this evening. Towards the end of a 3 hours training race, I was getting Right Pedal Sensor Missing errors again. I thought, “Oh no. I was hoping that was fixed with the beta firmware.” But before condemning the firmware, I checked my batteries. Right pedal first: 2.87 volts! Then the left pedal: 1.35 volts! I changed the left pedal batteries with two that were reading 2.75 (stacked). In all the battery confusion over the past month, I may have accidentally put an older set into the left pedal. Another training race tomorrow morning. Keeping my fingers crossed.
I’m glad that it worked out. Quite a few people on the Garmin forum also found that the CR1/3N battery solved their issues.
Be careful about buying batteries on Amazon since you don’t know if they are fresh or if they are fake.
I buy all my hearing aid batteries on Amazon. They’re always fresh with date codes for usage out to 2020 or later. Never a problem.
Ken,
I also buy batteries on Amazon but only if the seller has hundreds of positive reviews. There are however a lot of fakes on Amazon which are very hard to spot by the packaging and printed expiry date. As an example see this link.
link to microbattery.com
Has anyone used the Vector’s with a Wahoo Element Bolt? I know Cycling Dynamics is not available but as long as I have cadence and power that’s all I need. I use 170mm cranks, although I think I can dial that setting into the pedals using my Edge 520.
Hi C,
I am using Garmin Vector 3 with Wahoo Element Bolt since I bought the Vectors. No problems whatsoever. You get quite a lot of features, such as Pedal Smoothness and Torque Effectiveness; no metrics though on pedal platform offset….nevertheless for me I have everything I would need. So botto line, the Bolt goes hand in hand with the Vectors.
By the way, @ Ray, the pedals have so far about 20-25 hours of riding, no dropouts, spikes etc… So I am one of the happy users :D.
Nevertheless I did not have to change yet the batteries, but to be honest, based on everything I have read within the last 2 months here and on the Garmin forum, I am dreading the moment I have to do it, and I really hope it will go smooth. Will keep you all posted.
Cheers,
George.
You’ll obviously get all standard Ant+ metrics like power, cadence, L/R balance, pedal smoothness and torque effectiveness on Elemnt Bolt. I think that’s more than enough.
Thanks both for your reply. I think I will go with the Bolt as the battery life on the Edge 520 is draining really quick, after 2 years old.
Good luck with the battery change, George. I have used Varta and Duracell LR44’s with success. I will next try Duracell SR44’s and also have a go with CR1 type battery. Be sure to get them from a reputable outlet so that you know they aren’t fake. The FAQ on Garmin Vector forum page is a good reference point if you have not seen that.
Thanks C, I will follow your advice on the battery type for the Vectors.
Respect to the battery of the Bolt,I can vouch it is long lasting: I believe I did about 10-11 hours of riding with navigation for about 70-80% of the time and then decided to recharge (it was still showing if I remember correctly 24% battery). So all in all, I think the Bolt by far outperforms the Garmin either with navigation ON or OFF. My opinion is that you can’t go wrong with the Bolt.
Cheers,
George.
Thanks George, that sounds plenty for what I need it for. I’ll check out Ray’s review too.
Hi guys,
I have some updates, unfortunately not very encouraging: since yesterday, the GC app (v 4.5) on my SamsungS8 is not recognising the Vector 3 pair anymore. Bluetooth is ON, I restarted the phone several times,also the GC app, I woken up the pedals several times, tried then several times to refresh via GC app to try and detect the pedals, unfortunately nothing…. says device not connected. While cycling and using the Elemnt Bolt unit I get power readings, which I believe they are still accurate.
I am wondering though if this behaviour (Vectors not being recognised anymore in GC app) is an indication that the batteries might be getting low. I have no other way of checking the level except via the app on my phone, as I have a Wahoo Bolt head unit and not a Garmin one.
Can any of you folks provide me some info on whether or not this might be the start of a battery issue?
I want to mention that the Vector set has now roughly 35 hours of riding.
Cheers,
George.
Hi George,
We are aware of an issue with the 4.5 Garmin Connect Mobile (GCM) update for Android that did not allow the V3 to communicate properly with Vector 3. We have released a patch today (GCM 4.5.1) for Android that should resolve this problem. Apologies for the frustration.
link to forums.garmin.com
Hi Shawn,
Thanks for the input. I just installed the patch v 4.5.1 and now GCM app recognizes the pedals. Battery indicator icon in GMC at max.
Many thanks for the super-fast response!!!
Cheers,
George.
Hey, love your site it’s helped me a lot with my triathlon related purchases.
I was in a minor crash today (a driver didn’t want me to get in front of them at the traffic lights, so caused me closed the gap with curb causing me to mount pathment). Anyway the result was the underside of my pedal got stuck on a high curb, and it removed quite a lot of material- it’s more than just a scuff.
My question is, are the vector 3 bodies just plastic shells with no electronics, can all the clever stuff around the spindle be removed? I hoping I can simply replace the the body at a relatively low cost.
Best Regards
Phil
Yup, you can replace the spindle.
Your best bet is to reach out to Garmin Support, and they can get you all setup with the replacement parts. I think you’ll generally find that if you can call instead of e-mail/etc, you’ll probably get pretty good support from the Vector team in this case.
Hi,
I’m a bit confused about the statement that only Garmin Edge can display Cycling Dynamics. According to my Forerunner 920xt manual (and settings) it can display all those values. What’s am i missing?
Thanks!
It can record all those metrics, but I don’t think the FR920XT can display some of them as well as the Edge series can on the device itself. Meaning, the graphs and such.
I can’t find a way to set the crank length of the Vector 3 pedals with my Forerunner 920xt. Is that normal?
You need to ensure that when you go to set the crank length that Vector 3 is connected to the watch (so spin the crank arms/pedals a few times).
Ray thank you for your quick reply.
The connection was well established. When the Vector 3 is connected with the Forerunner 920xt, I have only the following options on the watch:
Status (connected!)
AutoZero
Calibrate
About (-> I guessed this is where I can set length, but there is only static info on that page)
Name
Remove
By the way, I’m running firmware 9.70 on the Forerunner 920xt.
Odd. Should be there.
I don’t have a FR920XT easily accessible at the moment, so I can’t triple-check the settings location.
But I can say that if you use the Garmin Connect Mobile app to set the crank length there, my understanding is that the FR920XT will honor that.
Ok thanks Ray.
It’s all a bit messy, as I de-paired the pedals because if the drops-outs and spikes due to the GCM bug. Therefore I can’t set crank length via the phone.
I’ll sent them back under warranty I think, and switch back to Powertap P1. Pity, but despite good initial feeling I’m disappointed with the Vector 3 so far.
I’m not sure why it’s not showing up for you on the FR920XT. But nonetheless, simply pairing it via the phone and setting the crank length and then de-pairing would only take 2-3 minutes tops. Seems quicker than doing the warranty thing, but that’s just me.
Yes that’s true. Might be a workaround. I’ll think about it. But since I change between bikes quite often, and the crank lengths differ, this is a bit annoying as well… I feel I shouldn’t have to fiddle around like this only because Garmin doesn’t deliver as expected.
To be honest, if your FR920XT isn’t showing the crank length for Vector 3, it likely won’t show for the PowerTap P1 either, since they’re both leveraging the same aspect of the spec.
I’d honestly try and troubleshoot why it’s not working for you with Garmin, because I’d hate for you to go through all the hassle, only to find out you’re in the same pickle on the P1 (or Assioma or whatever). All three are great pedals, and the FR920XT is a great head unit, so something isn’t quite clicking there.
One thing for fun to try is to remove the Vector 3 pedals from your FR920XT, and then re-add them, and see if it prompts for crank length then.
That got me thinking. So I tried with my brother’s P1, it works perfectly, as with my P1 that I had before.
I also tried de/re-pairing several times. That didn’t help unfortunately.
Odd, I’m stumped then. Might be worth a quick post to the Garmin Forums, I know the Vector team watches there and may have some obvious answer I can’t think of (I’d post to the Vector forums instead of FR920XT forums since I don’t think anyone from Garmin watches the FR920XT forums).
Thanks for the tip with the forum. I did that a fews weeks ago. No follow-up so far.
By the way, in the meantime I’ve tested with a second Forerunner 920xt unit. Same problem. Stunning. Especially for 2 products of the same brand.
REFUND
My reseller has agreed to take them back under warranty, also because of the spikes and drop-outs. I’ll go with the Assioma for now.
VERDICT
Without any intention to put shadow on your great review, my personal verdict is that for the moment these pedals are definitely not worth the money, given that all the software (be it Garmin Connect Mobile and/or firmware on the Vectors) is such a mess.
HARDWARE, CLEATS (vs Shimano)
It’s really a pity though, because the pedals definitely have great hardware features. I like the neat design, and I think the pedal platform gives great feedback, the cleats are really really nicely and solidly attached to the pedal (large platform). I’m a former Shimano-pedal-user and had great reluctance 2 years ago to switch to the Powertap P1 because of the Keo-style cleats. It wasn’t that bad though, and with the Vector 3 I definitely didn’t miss the Shimano pedals anymore. I might even prefer the feel of the Vector 3 over that of Shimano. Clipping in is perfectly easy (easier than Powertap P1 as I find): the pedal is always in the right position and doesn’t spin around like crazy (like the Assioma – or Exustar pedals in fact – as it seems, unfortunately). Garmin did a good job there.
INSTALLATION
On another hardware difference, I slightly prefer to attach a pedal with a hex key (like Powertap or Favero). With the Vector 3 it’s nearly impossible to avoid touching the spindle to get them into the crank arm, and thus one might get greasy fingers. This might not be an issue to many people, but I prefer not to put grease in places it doesn’t belong after touching the pedals ?
CYCLING DYNAMICS
And finally, although I really like numbers and stuff, the advanced cycling dynamics that Garmin provide are a gimmick and not really necessary (to me at least). I don’t believe they make you a better cyclist in any way. The time looking at the numbers is probably better spent training more or cooking a nice recovery meal.
WRONG MARKETING?
To wrap up, to me it just feels like that Garmin wanted to absolutely get the product out for the new season in order not to lose (more?) market share to their competitors. But what they achieved are 2 things: angry customers, and Powertap had to drop prices (thanks for that, Garmin). So I would be curious to know whether the premature launch of the Vector 3 wasn’t counterproductive for them.
With so many competitors and ever better products, I think Garmin can not afford anymore to use their customer base as beta testers. Too much frustration generated.
I also see the Vector 3 more as a 1st generation product rather than a 3rd generation product. Yes, it’s the 3rd powermeter from Garmin, but it is a completely new system, and as such has some initial issues as many had. But with the maturity that the powermeter market has reached in the meantime, such issues are just not acceptable anymore.
Apologies. Got excited and spoke too soon. The CR1/3N battery is not a fix. Some connection when previously there was none. But totally intermittent. Repeatedly connects and drops.
Christopher,
Try bending the spring up a bit. You seem to have a contact problem and this may help. Also have a look at this possible solution.
link to youtube.com
It makes sense that if the battery can’t move then the contact will be maintained.
i notice there is a max rider weight of 105kg, how strict is this as i’m hovering around the 104-106Kg point.
Is this a calibration or structural limit?
According to what I’ve read straight from garmin, it’s got to do with the durability of the pedal bearings.
Hi,
Where did you read this information about the effect on the ‘durability of the pedal bearings’? I am 110kg and wondering if it is safe to used the Vector 3. I wouldn’t mind if they just wear out a little faster. I am more concerned about them breaking while I am climbing and standing…
Thanks for any thoughts on this or ideas where I can read more.
Cheers,
Tony
My V3 started off well – seemed to give reliable data. However, they required a very early battery change (had only been used indoors for about 30 hours), then updated firmware to v3.0, then started reading erratically and unreliably on Elemnt Bolt and Garmin 820 (whether ANT+ or BT). Apparently there is an issue of which Garmin are aware with the battery holder – need to put some mineral oil between batteries, and ensure that insulating tape on battery holder is not wrinkled – see link to support.garmin.com
All a great shame that on the third version of their pedals they cant get something like that right. Anyway, they are replacing them (UK help desk take a minimum of two days to respond to any email – they are “busy”). Hopefully they can sort out the problems or these pedals really aren’t fit for purpose. Apologies if all of this is already known and posted ….. :-))
FINALLY got Garmin to agree to send me new battery holders. They ask for my address, and then a few days later I get a ship notification, and they have sent it to an apartment that I lived in during college, 8 or 9 years ago. Not even sure where they got that address.
Tried to reach the customer service rep, no response at all.
I passed on Clever Training offering to swap the pedals b/c Garmin was going to send the new battery holders. Now I am stuck holding pedals that don’t work, and Garmin goes 5+ days between each reply.
I wish I bought these straight from Garmin so I could do a chargeback on my credit card. Not fair to do that to Clever Training so I won’t.
Shawn@Garmin, I cc’d social@garmin.com when I pointed out the wrong address issue, can you please look into this?
Major problems with my Vector 3s pedals here, Gafmin have not been able to help me at all. Massively disappointed as they were a major investment for me. Here are the issues:
-The pedals reset to a 222.0mm crank length no matter what I do, throwing my power data waaay off. It happens if I set the crank length through the Wahoo or Garmin app. Have tried the app on an iphone and iPad.
-Power spikes, innacurate cadence and constant drop outs on the road and turbo. I’m still on my first set of batteries and the charge is ‘good’.
Has anyone had the crank length problem? I can’t find any info on it? The drop out issue seems like a common one… honestly so disappointed, serious buyer’s remorse.
John, have a look at this thread from the Garmin Forum.
link to forums.garmin.com
There is a YouTube video link and some discussion about damping the vibrations of the batteries. If you are careful about not putting too much cork under the spring, then this may be a temporary fix until Garmin sorts things out.
Hi John,
I have a Bolt as well and set the crank lengths through the Garmin Connect App and these settings stick in the pedals. I then removed the pedals completely from the app before pairing with the Bolt. There is a know issue with Vector’s chucking out strange readings if it is still connect to GCM.
I check that the crank length is correct in the pedals about twice a week to make sure everything is okay.
I am connecting the pedals and the Bolt through ANT+ and then calibrate through the Bolt. Wahoo are aware of a bug with setting the crank length through the Bolt and say they are working on it.
I noticed that the Bolt gave different TSS, NP results to that of the Edge. To correct this, I changed my power zone settings in the Bolt app, saved them, then inputted the correct settings. I then synced this with the Bolt and these figures seem to be about the same now.
John. In addition to the battery holder issues leading to erratic/disappearing data, I have also found the same issue. I set crank length in Garmin Connect – use the pedals and then when I check back they have been reset to 222.0 ….. why they default to this in the first place is a mystery to me and why, if they have to default to something, they don’t use 172.5 which is what the majority of people use I have no idea.
And when you change your batteries prepare yourself for further joy …. read the advice on Garmin support and the Garmin chat rooms.
When I get my current pair replaced by Garmin (which is what they are doing) I am going to switch to Favero which seems much less lie a beta version!
Thanks for your reply. I’ve made the decision to just sell them. I know it’s a defeatist attitude, but I can’t be bothered dealing with a product that is detracting from my enjoyment of riding.
Kinda glad i’m not the only one having this issue.
I’ve made the decision to just sell them. I know it’s a defeatist attitude, but I can’t be bothered dealing with a product that is detracting from my enjoyment of riding.
Here’s another customer with major problems with my brand new Vector 3. I got problems from ride number 1 and after three rides (and upgrading to 3.15 beta version) still no better. First ride I got tons of “Right pedal missing” and second and third rides I got either no power at all, or way too high watts (1200W while cruising anyone?). They are basically useless to me. I would wait a month or two before recommending anyone else from buying them.
Just to let everybody know: It looks like I caught the unicorn this time: Mine started reporting a “low” battery status when riding outdoors at cold temperatures after ca. 90h which is totally expected. I changed the supplied Vartas with store-bought Duracell LR44. Used a magnet to carefully get old the old batteries (probably not really required) and applied some baby oil (don’t know whether I need it). I hand-tightened the battery covers and closed them finally down to 2Nm using a torque wrench.
Everything (still) works perfect – rode with them at temperatures < 5° and battery is reported as "good", no drop-outs afaik.
I fully expect the units to be bricked by the next firmware release… 😉
Mine started reporting low battery after 40h, but kept on working well until 80h in total.
I put new batteries in mine a few days ago, same time that I installed the new beta firmware. After 3 or 4 rides, began getting “low battery” indication within 5 minutes of starting rides. Last Thursday, the pedals quit communicating with the Edge 520 altogether, but began communicating again on Friday. Sunday, they quit again at the end of a Box Hill PR attempt. (grrrrr). So yesterday, Monday, checked battery voltages. 2.51 volts on the left and 2.57 on the right, measured with my Fluke DVM. That seems like it should be enough; but inserted new batteries in the left pedal. Instant joy. Worked perfectly for my Monday ride. They gotta last longer than that, don’t you think?
I got the low battery warning after 30 hours, which is just ridiculous, although I do have pedaling dynamics and every other possible metric switched on which is, after all, one of the main reasons to buy these pedals. They are still going strong but it really bothers me to have to clear the warning EVERY SINGLE RIDE, even though its a minor nuisance.
LR44s were clearly (in retrospect, though…) the wrong battery choice by garmin. I see plenty of CR1/3N batteries in our (or at least my) future… I doubt i’m gonna try messing with the contact bending, baby oiling or battery taping even once. Vector 2 got significantly better battery life out of a single coin cell…
Hey Ray,
I recently found your reviews and are quite impressed with all the effort. So thumbs up! Your review on the Garmin V3 got me quite excited, as I think they are the most appealing pedal based powermeters, by looks [sorry for those offended, but I don’t like the looks of the “fat” P1 or the pods of the favero] However, all the negative comments I read make me a little hesitant to purchase it, since you don’t want to be “the next in line” waiting for replacement parts and not getting the apparatus to work. I was hoping that you might ease my mind a bit on that topic.
But before that, another question rises. I use to ride with a Sigma Rox 11.0 as headunit. As Garmin states, this unit is not on the list of being compatible with the V3, but through your replies in the forum I thought to read that as long as you don’t use cycling dynamics, the “normal” data as power, left/right balance should be transmitted anyway. Is it then possible to configure the V3 through the Garmin Mobile app, and then pair it to the Sigma for use, or would you rather not take the risk to try and find out that they do not work?
Thanks in advance
Hi Rick-
Realistically, I certainly can’t guarantee you anything when it comes to Vector 3 and luck. I can say that while certainly there have been issues (as Garmin has themselves even noted), primarily in the battery compartment area (which then impacts other stuff), I do think that’s a small sliver of people. It so happens that when you ship a crapton of units, a small sliver is still a number of people. If it was everyone though, we’d have far more comments here and on the forums. Don’t get me wrong, totally sucks if you fall into that camp – and like anyone else, I certainly wish Garmin was moving faster on this. I see them next week, so I’m interested to see what they’ve got to say on where things stand from their perspective.
Still, my unit continues to work well, as does those of a few people I know in real life. I tend to use DuraCell batteries, since that seems to be a ‘known good’ for me. And I tend to follow some best practices like changing both pods at the same time. I haven’t done any of the things like baby oil or tape or anything else.
All that aside (since there’s plenty of discussion already on that)…as for Sigma.
Correct, you’d be able to use it with the Sigma without issues as you describe. I don’t know for 100% certain that Sigma supports left/right power, but if you see that as a data field option, then it certainly would. I have a chat with them tomorrow, so perhaps I’ll see.
Cheers.
Judging from the volume of complaints on Garmin’s forums and my own personal experience (I’m having battery compartment issues, despite following Garmin’s supplemental FAQ) I think it’s more than a sliver of users experiencing issues with these units. Would it be possible to add a footnote to the review or at least sticky a comment up top? Speaking for myself I bought this unit based on your review and I think it would be a disservice to people shopping for a power meter to not warn them of issues here.
I don’t think “Third time’s the charm.” is the whole truth for these at the moment.
Danny S, I do agree with you regarding the sliver of the units out there with the issues. The battery compartment problem and battery life are in addition to the “Right Pedal Sensor Missing” that prompted Garmin to issue the new beta firmware. I’m very happy that the sensor missing problem seems to be behind us.
But the battery problem may be inherent in the mechanical design of the pedals. I’m hoping that Garmin comes up with a new battery recommendation and also figures out how to get something closer to the advertised battery life. It appears that when a battery stack drops below 2.5 volts (from 3.0 brand new), there isn’t enough juice to power the units. I check battery voltage with new batteries and also when the pedals drop out due to low battery voltage. 2.6 to 2.7 seems to be the threshold. If my experience is an anomaly (in that sliver), then I’ll be asking Garmin for replacements.
I’ve used Garmin products for almost 2 decades. I’m also a stockholder. I have faith.
Danny – I updated the review with an addendum section in either late January or early February with comments about it. And then re-updated it again in March with the latest detail.
You’ll find that right before the ‘Power Meter Accuracy Results’ section.
As always, keep in mind that anytime you visit a forum for any company (be it Garmin, Apple, or even GE), it’s where people go to solve problems – not gloat about successes. With large volumes like Garmin/Apple/etc…You’ll therefor have more than just one or two people discussing an issue – even if they only affect 1%. Just my two cents.
That said, there’s no debating there’s an issue (Garmin has clearly stated as much). That’s more debatable is how many people it’s actually impacting. Garmin says a small number, and based on the numbers I see through various channels for volumes and such, I’m relatively inclined to agree with that. Doesn’t change it for those with issues, but does put it in perspective.
Why can’t I buy it on amazon? Is that a short term thing, or a change in their retail providers?
Also, should I be able to buy one knowing I should be confident of no issues? What if I do encounter a problem like this Battery Voltage issue – how has Garmin’s support historically been for consumers who have had these kind of issues? Does it get acknowledged but no real support for those affected? Do they do trade-ins for affected units? Some companies stand by their products and do whatever is necessary, and others simply don’t – I’m genuinely asking what Garmin’s track record history has been.
I ask because 1000USD is a huge amount to pay for, and at that point I’m also buying into their support network – I had been debating between these and the Favero Assioma, but the replaceable battery & advertised battery life is what is really steering me in this direction.
I also agree with you. I ordered through Clevertraining in mid February, even though I was planning to cancel the order (just planned to keep the queue) if issues weren’t solved by the time they’re ready to be shipped. By today CT still don’t get stock and keep pushing back the restocking date (early may right now). And there’s hard to find any shop with V3s stock (besides Garmin web)
Just makes me think they are not manufacturing this product for some reason. My guess is that there’s a real design failure that they are trying to solve before fabricating more pedals.
Hi Ken,
Can you tell what is your current firmware version, that solved the Right Sensor Missing problem?
Thanks,
YAKOV,
It appears to be Beta Software 3.15 Released on March 27th.
I’m extremely pleased with the operation of the Garmin V3 pedals now. I’m currently recording a battery test to see how many actual hours of battery life I get. So far, 12-1/2 hours over 211 miles since Monday when I installed new batteries, 6 days ago. So far, no Low Battery messages.
link to forums.garmin.com
Thanks Ken,
According to Battery life – my original VARTA supplied batteries started “low batteries” warning after 40 hrs, but I continued using them until 80 hrs extremely perfect.
Note:
My question about the firmware version was for my friend (my first V3 were replaced because of that after firdt week, and the replacement works fine from the beginning).
Any word or chance they will ever create an adapter kit for Ultegra/Dura Ace Pedals? To me that would be a huge game changer. Look pedals are meh fine, but Shimano’s are amazing.
Thanks!
It’s rather impossible because of big chunk of Vectors 3 electronics being contained in pedal body/bigger axle. It’s completely different design than it was with Vectors 2.
I wouldn’t use the term impossible.
i bought the vector 3 pedals. from the first day of use i’ve got error ” right pedal is missing”. i did software updrade to version 3.30 that suppose to fix this problem but still i have the some problems. the head unit garmin 1030 is finding the power sensor but when i am trying to do clibration i am getting an error. when i am riding i am getting readings only from left pedal. please advice.
So, I am on my second pair replaced by Garmin. They worked for three rides and then suddenly stopped working – despite my Wahoo showing ANT+ connection, both pedals having Good battery strength and being calibrated.
I recognise that many people haven’t had problems but to get unlucky twice seems a particularly harsh stroke of fate or Garmin have a big problem.
Frankly, I can’t be bothered being a beta tester any more and am going back to Stages (for all their faults as well).
Hi,
Would any Garmin vector 3 buyer recommend me vector 3 as my first powermeter. I have an Garmin 1030 to pair with my vectors . As i see various issues faced by people and specially for the battery compartment. As I live in India where Garmin has not much developed and have good support, so I have to get it shipped from the US.
THANKS IN ADVANCE
Same question from me… I ordered Vector3 in november and have still not received them. Following the numerous complaints – and especially not so numerous hints from Garmin – I am probably lucky to not yet using them.
As of now I seem to have three options:
1. (most likely) change my order to Favero Assioma
2. (gamble) wait for the delivery and hope they will then work
3. (least likely) cancle the order and wait until (if ever) the dust has settled and Vector3 REALLY works
The second option would be OK for me as another couple of weeks won´t matter too much. However due to the absolute lack of communication from Garmin about what is going on and what/when the final solution is going to be I am really concerned that the Vectors might still be erratic when delivered.
Messing up a product launch is one thing – messing up the communication and what is done to solve the problems is another 🙁 The silence from Garmin makes me suspect that there are really deeper issues then just a redesign of e.g. a battery-cap.
Is there any sort of official (and convincing!) statement from Garmin that they will improve or redesign the Vector3 to make them reliable? And if so how and when?
garmin employee wrote this on garmin forums (so it’ semi official):
There is a legitimate effort underway to redesign the doors, and there has been for some time. But the redesigned doors are not yet available.
Also, some early production battery doors were subject to greater variability in assembly and that may have led to some of the problems identified by various users. These assembly issues have been identified and corrected as much as possible within the constraints of the existing design.
Thanks!
And that was posted when? And why “semi”-official? And when will “not yet available” end? And how are we supposed to believe that this REALLY solves the various issues?
If it would only be the battery door it would be good news and Garmin could be open about this issue (“will be resolved in june/july. Owners of older devices will receive the new doors once they are available”). However they are not, and instead prefer to take a solid beating… makes no sense to me and I thus suspect deeper problems.
I posted this on the Garmin Forum as well – let´s see if and how Garmin responds.
I want to post that since the firmware beta release 2 weeks ago, my Vector 3 pedals have been working flawlessly.
Yes, I had a short battery life right after the new firmware was installed, but that may have been a fluke. The new batteries I installed are almost 2 weeks old now. I ride 250 miles per week most weeks, so I have fairly heavy usage.
But the chronic problems that made my Vector 3 pedals useless have been rectified. I was within 2 or 3 days of claiming my money-back guarantee from Bike Tires Direct. Now, I’m glad that I still have the pedals.
Ken
Hi all,
Just wanted to give my experience of V3’s which I have owned since 18 th December 2017.
My pedals worked flawlessly out of the box and I mainly used them for Zwift as an existing dumb trainer user/owner. I was delighted with the change in Zwift experience that my V3’s gave me.
In around Feb 2018 ( after approx 60 hours) of use I changed the batteries when GCM showed them low. At the time I was oblivious to the battery cover issues and just changed them to Duracell LR44s as I would any electronic device. No problems and continued to use them, seemingly without issues, although I did have ANT+ connectivity problems which I managed to troubleshoot and wasnt related to the pedals. I continued my use of them with Zwift, desperately waiting for better weather to get some IRL riding done.
Within the last week my GCM has been showing the batteries as low but as they were still connecting with Zwift I kept going with the batteries, I had replaced in February. I managed to get another week or so out of them but then yesterday and with a change in the weather decided to put some new ones in so I could hit the road.
Now aware of the battery cover issues ( from this thread) I set everything up. I felt like a surgeon about to perform a complicated operation and was quite nervous and a little stressed!! I put my new Duracell’s in but had difficulty getting the cover thread lined up. Not wanting to damage the thread I tried several more times before the threads aligned and I tightened them up. The 2nd pedal was much easier but but I now had alternate green and red LEDs constantly flashing. They wouldn’t pair with GCM and I really thought I had broke them. Just on a whim I backed off the tightness on the covers by 1/4 of a turn. The lights stopped blinking and paired at which time it showed a firmware 3.3 upgrade was ready. This downloaded apparently without problem and I put them on my road bike before going out. Worked perfectly with my Edge 520.
Long winded way of saying I am delighted with my pedals, on Zwift or IRL, but the suffering – of reading all the posts on here and the ridiculous preparation/concentration when changing batteries detracts from the experience they give.
I genuinely feel sorry for all those who have had negative experiences and hope that Garmin can get a fix sorted for the covers very soon, for what are a great product.
Finally, a big thank you to Ray, for being both a brilliant source of information and for leaning on Garmin in the right way.
Ride on!
Chris
Did you do various tricks recommended? Baby oil? Tape? Cork? Turning the cover in reverse to set the threads and then going forward to engage?
It’s sounds like a very bad joke.
OK, the puzzle is solved: Garmin doesn´t respond at all – ZERO explanation, ZERO information!!!
Meanwhile I also talked to the Garmin Support in germany and that finally nailed it:
I also work for very, very large US Hightech company and know how tight-lipped engineering can be and how far away EMEA is from the US… but in a situation like this even I as a worker-bee would know what my company is doing to solve the issues. Unless of course they cannot be solved.
Last week I changed my order to Assioma DUO, received a considerable refund, and just now they mailed me the parcel tracking-ID.
Believe it or not – it can be that simple 🙂
I´ll update you once I logged a few miles with the Assioma.
My Garmin Vector 3 stop to send data to my Garmin Edge 1030.
i have version 3.9 on my EDGE 1030 and version 3.3 on my VECTOR 3 pedals. I can see on my EDGE that the power sensor is found “V3 BLE 0955541″ but still when i am trying to do calibration to the V3 i am getting an error message ” error balibration 0 ” and when i am riding i don’t receive any readings from the V3 to the EDGE 1030.
i need help.
Honestly you need to contact Garmin. I would recommend via phone but you can open a case online as well.