It’s here, the new Garmin Fenix 8 Pro & Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED. These two new watches add in both LTE & two-way satellite messaging connectivity, as well as brighter displays for both, including the first wearable to use a MicroLED display. But, there are some catches; most notably the disappearance of a smaller-sized Fenix unit, as well as the pricing jumping up another $200, to an entry point of $1,199 for the cheapest Fenix 8 Pro LTE model.
This release is all about connectivity (and displays). There are no additional new software features, aside from the gigantic boatload of features released a week or two ago that I outlined below.
Note, this is not a full in-depth review. That’ll come later-ish with a bit more time on the devices and cellular testing. Both my wife and I have units we’ve started testing, with me doing my best to find what works well and doesn’t. And her training for the Ironman 70.3 World Championships in 8 weeks.
With that, let’s get into it. Oh, and hang tight for a video, should be up in the next few hours!
What’s New:
Now, the first thing to remember about Garmin’s Fenix naming conventions is that the ‘Pro’ moniker doesn’t mean it’s some new level ‘above’ the existing Fenix watches. Instead, it means it’s the next iteration. That’s just the silly way Garmin works, which confuses buyers everywhere, especially first-time buyers. So yes, while it’s clearly a better watch, it’s not intended to be a second-tier Fenix, but rather, the next generation of Fenix.
With that, here’s how the Fenix 8 Pro LTE differs from a typical Fenix 8 unit:
– Increased display brightness to match that of Forerunner 970 & Venu X1 (roughly 2,000 nits is estimated)
– Increased speaker loudness compared to Fenix 8 (matches that of FR970 & Venu X1)
– Added LTE/Cellular Connectivity
– Added two-way Satellite connectivity (for messaging)
– Added LTE Live two-way voice calls
– Added LTE LiveTrack
– Added LTE Voice Messaging
– Added LTE Text Messaging
– Added LTE Weather
– Added LTE Location Check-Ins
– Added LTE incident detection
– Added LTE Emergency SOS
– Added Satellite Emergency SOS
– Added Satellite Text Messaging
– Added Satellite Check-in (Location)
– Only offered in 47mm & 51mm case sizes
– Increased price by $200, from $999 to $1,199/€1,199 for the base 47mm Fenix 8 Pro, and $1,299 for the 51mm edition
You’ll notice, though, there’s no 43mm option. It’s gone. Garmin says that’s “Due to hardware limitations with integrating the LTE antenna.” Which, I mean, seriously?!? You’ve skipped the one size watch where the female audience wants LTE emergency features more than any other group probably?
Garmin went on to say that it’s “Not that we don’t believe in it, and not that we’re avoiding it longer term”, but that the engineering challenge right now of keeping things small, including all the antennas for satellites, wasn’t possible.
Meanwhile, for the Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED, it’s got everything above, except the following:
– Uses a new 1.4″ MicroLED display with 4,500 nits of brightness (454px by 454px)
– Display has 400,000 individual LEDs on it
– Battery life is 10 days claimed in smartwatch mode (but only 4 days in always-on mode)
– GPS battery life up to 44hrs GPS-only, or 17hrs LTE LiveTrack with Multi-band (see full chart below)
– Weight is 93g including band (case is only 68g)
– Thickness is a beefcake
– Storage: 32GB
– Price is $1,999/€1,999 for the Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED unit, which is only offered in the larger 51mm case
Now, in addition to the above-noted items, it includes all the new features that the Fenix 8 got over the past few weeks (coming from the Venu X1, Forerunner 970, and other recent units), including:
Added Ability to Access Apps List by Swiping Left on the Watch Face: New to Garmin devices.
Added Calculator App: New to Garmin devices
Added Custom Focus Modes: Finally long-awaited expansion of this feature from when they launched it last summer
Added Editing for All Previous Sets in Strength: New to Garmin devices
Added Emoji Keyboard: Specifically for Android text/etc responses.
Added Evening Report Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Expanded Morning Report Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Garmin alerts to Notification Center: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Golf Range Finder Settings Menu: Not applicable to my wheelhouse of miniature golf.
Added Japanese Kana Keyboard: New to Garmin devices
Added More QWERTY Keyboard Layouts.
Added Multisport Workout Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Music Options to Music More Controls Page: New to Garmin devices
Added New Help Dialogs for Breathing Variations
Added Performance Glance Updates
Added Provisional Finish Point Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Race Timer Data Field to Sail Race Activity
Added Running Economy Support: Launched on Forerunner 970
Added Running Power to the Lactate Threshold Page: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Running Tolerance Support: Launched on Forerunner 970
Added Smart Wake Alarm: Launched on Vivoactive 6
Added Step Speed Loss Support: Launched on Forerunner 970
Added Support for Track/Road Display Transitions: New to Garmin devices
Added Tack Assist Data Page in Sailing Activities
Added Thai Keyboard
Added Track Run Option for Daily Suggested Workouts: New to Garmin devices
Added Triathlon Adaptive Training Plan Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Added Triathlon Race Events Support: Launched on Forerunner 570/970
Beyond this, it includes all the Fenix 8 features found from a year ago, including the dive functionality, speaker/microphone, and more. What’s notable, though, is that as I said when the Fenix 8 launched, it was really lacking in new sports features (literally, it has none, at least if you don’t count diving). Whereas this time around, I’d argue the LTE/Satellite pieces are huge for sports/adventure, and that’s in addition to the massive list above that the Fenix 8 just got last week in production.
Now, you may notice MIP is gone. Rest in peace MIP. But, I wouldn’t say it’s gone forever. After all, Garmin still has their Enduro series of watches aimed at forever battery (including solar), which is really the logical branding destination for a MIP display longer-term.
When asked, Garmin’s program manager, Jon Hosler, said, “We still believe in MIP displays, we just don’t have the connected versions of them this generation”.
Finally, getting to thickness, things are definitely thicker and bulkier. Building a MicroLED watch is actually similar to MIP watches in that they have to bond a touchscreen layer on top of the display, whereas in AMOLED, it’s all built into a single panel. As for whether or not MicroLED will replace those screens, Garmin said, “We don’t think this is a replacement to AMOLED”, at least for now, and went on to say, “there are tradeoffs for each”.
All of these start shipping on September 8th.
Got all that? Good, let’s get into the connectivity bits.
LTE Cellular Connectivity:
Next, Garmin has finally delivered on putting LTE in a Fenix watch. Up till now, it’s really been occasional forays by the Venu team (Vivoactive 3 Music Cellular in 2019), and then the Forerunner team (Forerunner 945 LTE in 2021), and most recently, the kids-focused Garmin Bounce watch in 2022, which my daughters love.
Finally, they’ve done it. Though it’ll ultimately be like you’d expect from other Garmin watches: Really a safety and basic messaging focused feature, rather than some full stack of cellular features like you might find on an Apple, Google, or Samsung watch. This is designed to cover the main athletic use cases of tracking and basic messaging to friends/family when out on a workout. For example, up till now, my wife would often do late-night runs after the kids went to bed…stealing one of their Garmin Bounce watches to use as a LTE run tracker (she hates bringing her phone). Given she already was wearing a Fenix, this now solves that.
When it comes to LTE features, Garmin offers the following features over their LTE network, via LTE-M (which requires lower power as an ecosystem, including voice calling over LTE-M):
– LTE Live two-way voice calls
– LTE LiveTrack (30-second sampling rate)
– LTE Voice Messaging
– LTE Text Messaging
– LTE Weather
– LTE & Satellite Emergency SOS
– LTE Location Check-Ins
– LTE Incident Detection & Assistance
In addition, they also offer satellite text messaging, more on that in a second. Notably, the watches are cross-region compatible due to LTE-M. Meaning, you can use your European model in the US for LTE-M (and satellite), and vice-versa.
As you can see, this is all about telling your friends/family where you are, and checking in with them. That said, the two-way voice calls is a good place to start, which isn’t really limited to being a workout feature.
To begin, getting things set up requires setting up an account within Garmin’s inReach platform. This gives you 30 days free, after which it is $9.99/month for unlimited LTE stuffs, and emergency-only Satellite bits. Beyond that, there are additional fees for satellite check-ins/texts that I’ll cover below (or, a higher-priced plan).
Once that’s all set up and activated (and seriously, it takes forever and is mostly a giant hot mess of different Garmin phone apps, switching, etc…), you’ll be ready to go.
From there, you’ll see a menu option on your watch that shows the different connectivity status options, in terms of how and when it leverages both LTE & satellite. Essentially, you can leave it on Auto, force it off/on, and any number of combinations within that.
For LTE connectivity, if enabled, you’ll see the cellular signal strength on the watch face, as well as start of workout pages:
Next, looking at LTE LiveTrack, here’s an example of a run today I did with the LTE LiveTrack feature, sent to DesFit to follow along. In this case, a portion of the run goes through no-cellular ranges, though the rest is within cell service.
Meanwhile, out on the run with cellular range I could text Des, have him follow my live tracking, and dork send messages via LTE back and forth to my wife…running alongside me.
On the texting side, he was using the Garmin Messenger app on his phone, while I had just my watch with me. I could choose his name, and then send either manually typed-out messages, or pre-canned messages. I also have some pre-canned messages I’ve added to it, for use across my inReach devices.
And back and forth we went:
All of this worked great and within seconds when I had connectivity, and then was slightly delayed when I didn’t (but did send shortly thereafter). I was also able to text my wife, who was running alongside me, also on pure watch LTE (no cell phone).
To be really clear – the recipient does *NOT* need to have the Garmin Messenger app loaded. If they don’t, they’ll receive a text message from a random Garmin phone number, and when they reply, Garmin will correctly route it back to your watch. You do not get assigned a dedicated phone/text number. A recipient who just wants to text can do so without the Messenger app. However, if they want to send voice messages, they need the Garmin app.
Next, I can do 2-way voice calls. In that scenario, you find the contact within the Messenger app/menus on the watch, and select to call them:
The call will then complete using the microphone/speaker on your watch, to their Messenger app. Unlike text messages, for calls, the other person needs to have the Messenger app on their phone. In this case, the voice call quality was good enough, even on 2/5 bars of LTE.
Finally, there are voice messages. This allows someone to send you short voice messages. When these come into you, they’ll actually show up initially as a transcribed message. In my case, out in the trails, it took maybe another 30-45 seconds (with poor LTE connectivity) before the full voice message was downloaded to the watch:
At which point I could simply tap it to play using the speaker on the watch (or headphones). Audio quality was so-so, like the Venu X1 and Garmin Forerunner 970. Functional, but nothing fantastic.
LTE connectivity requires a Garmin-specific plan, and costs $7.99/9.99EUR a month. That plan also covers the Garmin inReach satellite connectivity features I discuss next.
Satellite Connectivity Features:
Next up, the next piece here is Satellite features via Garmin inReach-like functionality, when out of cellular range.
In Garmin’s case, this falls into a bucket of three core satellite features:
– Satellite Messaging (basic texting)
– Satellite position/location check-ins
– Satellite Emergency SOS (via Garmin Response)
This is more extensive than what Google launched two weeks ago with the Pixel Watch 4, since that was only for satellite emergency SOS (though ironically, it does use Garmin’s Response Center). Further, while these new features definitely have more capability than Google, they fall short of a traditional Garmin inReach device in that they aren’t continuous tracking features, or continuous messaging features, since they require you to position your arm in a specific way to send/receive messages.
With the Fenix 8, the antenna now allows for on-demand connectivity to GEO satellites, which is different than the much larger antenna form factor of a typical inReach device. This means that, unlike a typical inReach device, this will only send messages to the satellite when you position your arm in a specific orientation. That’s because it needs to point to an exact satellite, whereas a typical inReach device has a huge antenna to find the correct satellites in virtually every orientation. The traditional Garmin inReach Iridium devices use LEO satellites, about 66 of them, and much closer to earth. Whereas GEO is more limited in service areas: Covering a specific area of the earth, focused on a specific area of the earth, and thus, a specific coverage area.
Therefore, the coverage maps are essentially the Continental US/Canada (+ about 50 miles offshore) and the vast majority of Europe.
Garmin confirmed they’re using SkyLo as their network provider as well.
So, to show how this works. First up is a whole slate of activation stuff that takes forever. It’s super cumbersome, but once it’s sorted…well…it’s done.
Next, when it comes to satellite features, by default, everything will run over LTE if that’s available first. You can force it to a satellite if you need to, but there’s really no point if LTE is there.
Still, if you’re outside cellular range (or Bluetooth range to your phone), then when you go to send a text message from the watch, it’ll prompt you to go into satellite mode. This will first have you double-check the compass, which is then leveraged to point towards the right satellite location.
At which point, you’ll then get a further UI piece to refine connectivity towards that satellite. This piece seemed to take about 20-30 seconds to get a lock on the satellite.
After that’s done, it’ll send the message, which is pretty quick (5-10 seconds). It’ll also receive any inbound messages.
And then finally, confirms the message was sent:
This same process happens if you want to send a position check-in message, which sends your current location to your BFF.
Finally, there’s the Garmin SOS features, leveraging Garmin’s Response Center, for emergencies. You can access that via the controls menu, which then gives you 10 seconds to cancel it, in case it accidentally does so. As with the other features, it’ll first try via LTE, then satellite.
Now, as you might expect, given Garmin’s hard push for increasing services revenue, there is a cost for this. Garmin’s plan is $7.99/9.99EUR/month, including both LTE & satellite inReach response pieces. This is a business-clever, but consumer-unfriendly approach. After all, Apple and Google are giving the Satellite SOS pieces for free on their devices (for at least 2 years, although Apple has long-since passed that deadline without charging anyone, and Google sounds like they plan to do the same). I’m not sure why Garmin couldn’t have followed a similar model, allowing the emergency piece for free, and then charging for non-emergency pieces.
Personally, I feel like the emergency satellite SOS piece should be included in the cost of a $1,999 watch, given that Google is doing so for watches that cost $449. After all, this piece of the service is leveraged very infrequently (hopefully never for you or anyone you know), yet the press/media ROI for Garmin’s marketing is massive (as both Apple and Google effectively acknowledge).
Here’s the full pricing bits, there is no annual plan option (Europe is 9.99/month for the base plan):
Note that at the moment, you can only have one inReach device associated to your account (meaning, if you already had an inReach standalone device, you literally can’t have both watch and device concurrently – it deactivates the other one). Garmin says by the end of the year, this will be solved.
Closer Look At The MicroLED Displays:
So what the heck is MicroLED? Well, in short, it’s a brighter display, but more importantly, one that has long been purported to use less battery life. More specifically, a crapton less battery life. It’s always been looked at as the display equivalent of dual-frequency GPS, in terms of ‘solving’ some of the AMOLED battery concerns. Except that doesn’t happen here. As we see at the end of this section, the battery life is actually worse than the previous-gen Fenix 8 models.
Nonetheless, with the Fenix 8, this is specifically coming to the model variant called “MicroLED”, and only in the 51mm variant. The Fenix 8 Pro edition still features an AMOLED display, one using Garmin’s latest gen displays seen on the Forerunner 970 & Venu X1 (thus, newer than the original Fenix 8 displays). Those displays are silly bright, but at least on those watches, Garmin is still burning far too much battery life due to a lack of brightness optimizations.
In any case, for the Fenix 8/Pro MicroLED variants, Garmin states that it’s the brightest display in a smartwatch anywhere. And that seems to be true. Well, at least for a few days anyway. The display has a peak brightness of 4,500 nits, which is well in excess of any other display out there today, the brightest AMOLED ones floating around 3,000 nits, and most of Garmin’s existing ones like the Fenix 8 are assumed to be 1,000-nit displays. The display is made by AUA, not Samsung as some had assumed might happen.
Here’s a Fenix 8 (last year’s), Fenix 8 Pro (this year’s), and Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED – all using default brightness settings (2/3rds):
They noted that they really only use those peak periods for small portions of time. For example, they won’t turn it on at full 4,500 pixels on the map page, because it’d blow through the battery. Whereas it would really be more for data fields, because they only need to turn on those white pixels.
Now, what’s kinda funny about this is that despite what some MIP-loving people may say about AMOLED, the issue has never really been display brightness on sunny days. Seriously, the Epix Gen 2 display is perfectly visible on a sunny day, be it on top of a snowy mountain, the beach in summer, or anywhere else I’ve taken it.
Instead, it’s primarily been about off-angle viewing when your wrist is down (and the backlight isn’t activated). This aims to solve it, without smashing the battery. That’s sorta the goal here and is something Garmin heavily touts as being a big advantage. Here’s an example side-by-side:
(Side-by-side: Fenix 8, Fenix 8 Pro, Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED)
As you can see, that’s a huge difference! Albeit, I’d be hard-pressed to spend $2,000 on such a difference. But hey, that’s just me.
However, just as important as peak brightness is minimum brightness. Being able to get super dim at night, ideally down to 1-nit. That way, you can still see the screen, but it doesn’t blind you at night. Garmin has been pretty good there on their own displays in recent years, though, I find the newer Venu X1/FR970/etc still a bit too bright (compared to say the Apple Watch Ultra 2 display). In fact, when I talk to Apple & Google, the key thing they often tout and are most proud of, is *not* the peak brightness, but the minimum brightness. Both companies have noted how hard it is to get that right. Blasting it full brightness is, by comparison, easy.
In any case, in real-world out on the trails on a sunny Mediterranean island day, it’s frankly hard to tell the difference head-on between the Fenix 8 Pro display and a Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED display to the naked eye. However, the camera definitely sees the MicroLED more. Again, this is part of the challenge of how cameras look at shadows and try and balance things out.
Instead, it’s really about those on-angle viewing differences that you definitely notice it. Though that was never really a big deal to me on previous AMOLED devices. Thus, this clearly isn’t worth it to me – especially with the battery hits. Speaking of which, here are those battery hits:
As you can see, it’s pretty substantial, which kinda seems like it defeated the entire point of MicroLED in having longer battery life.
Going Forward:
In terms of wearables, Garmin is making a massive stride forward for the industry. Sure, everyone else has had cellular connectivity for years, and now Garmin is finally joining that camp on their flagship devices. But more critically, Garmin is leading the way on satellite messaging & connectivity. Undoubtedly, we’ll see competitors expand their offerings (it’s widely expected Apple will join Google’s watch-based satellite SOS pieces next week), but I suspect with Garmin we’ll see Garmin’s deeper athletic focus here drive the cellular/satellite-focused features faster than the others.
The ability to not only have LTE live track sessions during workouts, but also have backup position check-ins when out of cellular range is huge, at least for me. Large chunks of the trail running routes directly out my front door don’t have cellular connectivity, and are rarely run/used, but if something were to happen, I’d probably be there a while. Meanwhile, for my wife, who mostly runs within cellular coverage, this solves the big tracking gaps for her (she hates taking her phone).
Yet, she’s pretty angry about these new sizes. This is not at all what she wants. She’s been a small-sized Fenix customer for years, and this entirely misses the boat in her opinion. Furthermore, she’d argue (correctly, I’d say) that the audience that wants LTE-onboard connectivity for safety reasons more than anyone else is probably the female audience. And these new watches won’t fit many of them.
As for pricing…yeah, that sucks. It sucks even more that Garmin is clearly aiming to deliver parity pricing to Europeans (e.g., both $1,199/EUR), despite the tariffs being US-driven. Setting that aside, there frankly isn’t much competition for what Garmin is offering, and as such, they can charge whatever they want.
In any case, I’ll be putting things through deeper testing over the coming weeks – so stay tuned for the full in-depth review!
Thanks for reading!
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Any news about expanding coverage? Still limited even in countries they sell the watch. Is Garmin working to expand or this will be it for the lifespan of this watch?
Also any reason why the LTE/satellite plans are bundled? I am in a country without LTE and would need to pay the same for satellite, but not have livetrack or any of unlimited messages.
It seems to be restricted by the satellite network provider itself, since this watch doesn’t connect to Iridium. For me that is a pass.
I meant more like Italy does not have LTE and the Fenix 8 Pro is not even on sale on website. Czechia for example has no LTE too but the model is on sale but you won’t have LTE. I just wonder does this mean Garmin is planning to expand LTE to some (like Czechia) but for example never to Italy? Or they will only ever have these countries it is releasing with? Also what would be even the point of offering in some markets where LTE does not work then but not others.
Why would you think LTE is not available in Italy? And generally, Garmin will not start building cellular or satellite infrastructure, they never have and probably never will. They are not a full-blown mobile or sat service provider, nor do they hold the licenses required to be one. They’re essentially a virtual service provider comparable to MVNOs, reselling services operating on existing infrastructure, while also manufacturing and selling their own custom consumer devices. Nothing more.
Bevause Italy is not listen on Garmin page for LTE coverage. Nobody is asking if they are going to build infrastructure but if they plan to expand their coverage through regular providers with deals behind the scenes.
Interesting. Might be linked to the release only? They do list a lot more countries having LTE coverage for PlaneSync, including Italy: link to garmin.com
Also, their coverage map includes Italy when checking for Forerunner 945 LTE coverage, notably excludes the Czech Republic though: link to discover.garmin.com
Though neither of those might be using LTE-m.
Saddle up and heeeere we goooo!
Oh man. I’ve been waiting for MicroLed for years, thinking battery-wise it will be in-between AMOLED and MIPS, and then this? My wallet is safe. MIP forever!
I was ready to burn some cash for the same reason, holding out on my Epix gen 2 to match a micro-LED screen with better battery and the benefits of the elevate 5 sensor.
Feels like I’ve been waiting for nothing. Worse battery and far thicker feels like a loss rather than a gain, even before looking at the price.
Epix Gen 2 is currently the best price-to-quality ratio. I’m very happy with the Epix Gen 2.
I’m glad that Garmin hasn’t given up on LTE in their sportswatches. it has been awfully quiet since the 945LTE. This line of big, heavy, adventure-style watches is not for me though. I run and do some cycling, something like a 965LTE would be perfect for me. Or maybe something like a Venu X1 LTE. Maybe in the future. Looking forward to the full review though!
“2 corrections:
“because it’d below through the battery”, I guess you mean “blow”
and:
“out in teh trails”
Two more: “Not that we don’t believe in it, and not that we’re avoiding it longer term”, but that the engineering challenge right now of keeping things smal,l including all the antennas for satellit,e wasn’t possible”
link to garmin.com
Any word on if the SOD satellite or LTE features are automatic for contacting emergency services? For example, in a fall where you are knocked out. Apple certainly advertises the heck out of this feature on the Apple Watch and it does set it apart in the industry. I can imagine the satellite feature with them will have fall detection SOS.
Amazing tech but really disappointed in the battery life from Microled, I thought that was really the whole ‘best of all worlds’ point. Do we think Garmin can optimise this further going forward with subsequent firmware updates?
Since Fenix/Epix 7 Pro it feels to me as if the Flagship models have transitioned from a valuable tool for many, to a very expensive gadget for a few.
I understand the market strategy they follow, but paired with the price it’s way too far out there (especially when I look at the model refresh cycles).
Fenix 7 series is probably my last Garmin for some time.
I feel exactly the same. The features on my EPIX pro 51mm are pretty much everything I need at the moment and although the recently features are interesting (many requires a special & expensive chest strap!); they are not worth the extra for me.
The Fenix 8 felt not fully cooked, rushed, unstable and lacked new features compared to Fenix 7/epix pro; I really have the impression that they want to offer new hardware “at all cost” to keep selling more and more units. 12-18 months are too short in my opinion.
The pressure seems les present in the Edge serie (which has less innovations also).
Edge 830: April 2019
Edge 840: April 2023
Edge 850: TBA
thanks Ray for the amazing review, as usual!!
Finally! Although I’ll probably patiently wait for a Forerunner with these capabilities…
Can you clarify if a person receiving texts from the watch needs the messenger app?
At one point you say “Unlike text messages, for calls, the other person needs to have the Messenger app on their phone” – but above that is “On the texting side, he was using the Garmin Messenger app on his phone”
As always, thanks for the great write-up, Ray!
I think having requiring the other party to have the Garmin messenger app on their phone for calls is a HUGE miss. What other LTE watch has that requirement? None to my knowledge. That’s very limiting. Am I reading that wrong?
yes that other person has to have the Messenger app also, to receive texts – that’s how the inReach does it now, and that’s how it’ll work with this new watch (I know this because my son who does back country hiking uses an inReach and for his status-type ‘texts’ to get to me, I have to have the Messenger app on my phone/watch.
Exactly the same question I have.
confused as well by this; there’s gotta be a typo in there somewhere.
Actually not a typo. Both are correct, in different scenarios.
In short, if the other person receives a text message from the watch (but doesn’t have Messenger app), it’ll simply show as from a random phone number (it’s a Garmin number). They can respond back, and it will correctly route to your watch. But they won’t see your name or such. So kinda texting blind.
Whereas, if they have the Messenger app (even without registering), then they see the name and have more details.
Same with calls? Is the number fixed at least?
The other LTE watches piggyback off your phone plan, because their manufacturers are big enough to have enough leverage and have the phone ecosystem to support it, while Garmin has neither.
You seem to be pretty positive about a feature whose service costs about the same price as its competitors, but offers less. I pay $10 a month ($2 more than Garmin’s service) for LTE service on my Apple Watch and can call, send iMessages, RCS and SMS to anyone from my phone number (same number as my iPhone). I can also stream/download music and have my apps send/receive unlimited data.
My boyfriend does not pay for service but has had an LTE version since they were first offered to get its free fall/crash notifications and other emergency calls. Do Garmin users have to have service to enable emergency calling?
While I do not have voice service in every country, I have emergency service in most of them.
As for the satellite piece, the pricing feels very high compared to Apple’s pricing for their iPhone satellite plan (still free). In Apple’s case (and I bet in Google’s should they decide to expand past SOS), it seems that satellite messaging is not used enough to make it worth charging for a service that few would buy, while the publicity they receive for saving lives is very valuable.
Keep in mind, it’s no inreach! It’s powered by Skylo with another satellite system, you will see a lot of connectivity issues. The CAT S75 used the same technologies and if you want to use the Fenix 8 pro in the mountains as emergency system it will be wrong solution! It can’t replace the inreach messenger and it’s not using the same technology (Its only Garmin marketing) !
Using GEO satellites (which is what Skylo uses) is hardly new, nor untested. A random company not implementing it correctly isn’t saying much.
Undoubtedly, GEO satellites have different limitations than Iridium on Geo, but folks in the US and elsewhere have been using it for years with phones (on Skylo no less) for SOS without any issues.
I am confident that it works perfectly in the U.S. prairie, where there are no mountains or other large obstacles. This isn’t about faulty implementations; it’s about physics, as Garmin itself describes in its support articles.
link to garmin.com
Geostationary satellites normally orbit the Earth over the equator, so the farther a region is from the equator, the more difficult the coverage becomes.
Example: Germany. An SOS is triggered. The person in need is on the north side of a mountain range, about 70 m below the ridge line. A connection to the satellite is probably impossible because the elevation angle is too low and, from the caller’s point of view, the satellite is on the southern side. The signal would have to pass through the mountain, which simply won’t work!
The use case is crucial. At the moment, InReach devices cannot be beaten with current technology because they rely on moving satellites that cover almost the entire planet. Even if the person in need is in an unfavorable spot, there is still a good chance of a successful transmission.
Saying that the Fenix works with InReach technology is, in my opinion, extremely misleading, because some customers might think they can cover the same SOS scenarios with the Fenix as they can with an InReach. That’s simply not the case!
In my view, a €1,300 watch should include the SOS function at least for free—especially when an Apple Watch can be bought for a fraction of that price.
I’m not disagreeing that Iridium-based inReach is better, for lots of reasons. I’m just saying it’s not as bad as I think you’re making it out to be.
Either way, I’ll be covering lots of examples in the mountains (of Europe, fwiw), in my full review.
Also, I 100% agree that watch SOS should be free (I’m fine with the texting bits being paid for now).
Ray, just curious, I assume you did raise the “SOS should be free” with your Garmin contacts. If you’re allowed to say, where they “nah, never” or “we’re considering it”? I fully understand if this is under NDA (official or not).
And as to Skylo vs inReach, fully agreed. Having even Skylo is better than nothing, and for emergency is probably good enough for normal use cases. And if someone is really doing crazy stuff, then a proper inReach messenger is not a big gap (neither monetary nor weight in the backpack). In my opinion.
Do Apple Watches even have satellite communication yet? I thought that was one of the Tuesday rumors. iPhones do, but I don’t remember Apple Watches having it yet.
They very much now know about my opinions there. :)
We didn’t discuss that piece on the call and e-mails, was more focused on technical pieces. Once we get past Tuesday, I’m going to circle back on it.
My assumption here is Apple will be free like Google. Which might force Garmin’s hand some. I do wonder if the real core of the issue is actually backend here. As odd as that might sound, one has to remember that Garmin recently switched the entire backend billing side from being what I presume to be pretty old-school legacy Delorme stuff to being actually within Garmin’s Connect platform.
And having gone through the entire watch onboarding process a few times, it’s hot-mess level, at least compared to how you set it up on a Google/Apple side. And as we see with the lack of ability to have two units per account right now (e.g. handheld+watch), and that coming later this year, I wonder if there’s simply a case of too much technical work to get it done.
While it might seem trivial to say ‘just let it be free’, my assumption here is that technically the underlying code on both watch and backend is heavily tied into the LTE enablement protion. In other words, all the activation/etc flow is one bundle, rather than seperate streams.
That said, Garmin knew that Google was planning this for a long time (since they worked together on this, and Google’s team noted how much specifically they had worked with Garmin ahead of time). In fact, I’d be willing to wager money there’s a specific reason why Google is shipping the watches precisely 30 days…after Garmin starts shipping the Fenix 8. Google has never delayed the Pixel Watches that far from launch before. Seems too accidental to me.
Very interesting. The business negotiations must have been fun :)
And yes, from my experience with the inReach devices, it’s clear that they’ve been working through the migration, but it’s not done yet. Slowly slowly…
Ray, any noticeable improvements in scrolling widgets and navigating between screens on the pro vs the 8 or is it using the same internals? The occasional lag and stutters actually made me turn the touchscreen off.
really want to know this as well. a bit tired of expensive garmin watches that are laggy out of the box. waiting for them to do a meaningful processor upgrade that can actually keep up. not holding my breath… but let’s hear it Ray
my strong guess is they did not change the CPU…so same as in F7 and we’ll move into 2026 with C64-style map drawing performance – a bargain for 2k bucks.
No change that I see.
You’ll notice, though, there’s no 43mm option. It’s gone. Garmin says that’s “Due to hardware limitations with integrating the LTE antenna.” Which, I mean, seriously?!? You’ve skipped the one size watch where the female audience wants LTE emergency features more than any other group probably?
I love you for this!
thanks for the review. it’s a surprise that the MicroLED uses so much battery. I wonder if they eventually get around to giving more granular control of brightness this would move in the right direction. e.g., if the microLED had a 1/10 brightness setting, it might still be equal or brighter than a 1/3 or 2/3 Fenix 8 AMOLED setting and use a lot less battery.
for me, the added thickness is an issue, so I’m hoping in a few years, they can figure this out and move under 15mm for both LTE and MicroLED
I too am surprised basic SOS isn’t free…at least for a year or two.
to be fair, the Pros are titanium, right?
so, they are charging $100 for the LTE/Satellite capability.
The MicroLED pricing is bonkers. And you get a thicker watch with less battery… Quite a letdown.
Not sure why would anyone choose that version over the AMOLED versions.
To qualify themselves for MicroLED personal loans;-).
no burn-in possible
Does micro led allow for “Always On” screen? I returned my amoled Garmin because the screen can’t stay on even in workout mode. When I try to look at the watch while running, the screen was off and a pain to flick my wrist exactly right to turn it on.
strange – I have an AMOLED Garmin (Epix Gen 2, over three years old now), set with ‘Always On’ and the screen never goes off. Yes even when running.
I suspect you had the Running activity set to blank the screen…probably…
I’m saying – it’s not AMOLED that was doing what you saw – it was a setting you had set.
Thanks for the info. This must be a newer feature. I checked my email and I have a support ticket from March 2023 confirming that you can’t leave the screen on all the time due to battery drain and screen burn in. I didn’t realize it was back in spring 2023 when I got my new watch. Maybe I’ll try the amoled again with my next Garmin.
Yes, has always-on. All of Garmin’s AMOLED screens have had the always-on setting.
Some firmwares had bugs where it would switch off and need a reboot though so make sure firmware is up to date. I thought my Epix didn’t have it until I commented and Ray corrected me. It was switched on the whole time and not working. Firmware fixed it.
There was also a period of time where Garmin would ask you every time you unplugged to switch off Always-on Display. Super annoying, because it was an overlay screen that you’d accidentally hit yes on.
Thankfully, they’ve stopped doing that.
Me saying to my wife:
2 days ago: “F8 Pro is probably coming out soon, and I’ll buy it”
Today: “lol what a joke, guess not”
“Instead, it’s primarily been about off-angle viewing when your wrist is down (and the backlight isn’t activated). This aims to solve it, without smashing the battery. That’s sorta the goal here and is something Garmin heavily touts as being a big advantage”
If I’m understanding this correctly, does this mean that the microled display (in AOD mode):
1) …stays bright enough to be glanceable during an entire activity without a wrist turn?
2a) …stays bright enough to be glanceable during everyday use without a wrist turn?
2b) If the answer to 2a) is yes, does that mean the seconds hand/indicator never disappears from the watchface?
To me this would make microled a viable replacement for MIP watches, without some of the tradeoffs that amoled made. Only problems are the price, size and huge battery hit.
If the answer to all those question is “yes”, I would buy a future MicroLED Forerunner if it was reasonably priced and not bigger than the current FR955/FR965 models. Even better if it could be more like the size of FR255/FR265
“Now, what’s kinda funny about this is that despite what some MIP-loving people will say about AMOLED, the issue has never really been display brightness on sunny days. Seriously, the Epix Gen 2 display is perfectly visible on a sunny day, be it on top of a snowy mountain, the beach in summer, or anywhere else I’ve taken it.”
Can’t speak for anyone else, but for me it’s always been about the glanceability: being able to quickly glance at a MIP watch during a hard running workout, without a wrist turn or button press. It’s never been about how visible AMOLED is at *full* brightness, after wrist turn / button press.
Ofc having to turn your wrist to bring the AMOLED display to full brightness was said to be no big deal during the transition to AMOLED. But obviously Garmin thinks the loss of glanceability in moving from MIP to AMOLED is an issue after all, otherwise they wouldn’t now be touting MicroLED’s glanceability as a “big advantage”.
Yeah I know every tech company and business does this. Some missing feature that a minority or majority customers vocally request is said to be no big deal, up until precisely the point that a brand new model is introduced, where that feature which used to be no big deal is suddenly a huge selling point. Apple did this multiple times over the years. Steve Jobs would literally mock his userbase for wanting things, then he would turn around and hype up those exact things in the latest iPhone or iPad.
It’s kind of insulting to customers, but I guess we’re all used to it now.
They’ll use whatever they can for marketing, even if it conflicts with earlier marketing ;)
“Yet, she’s pretty angry about these new sizes. This is not at all what she wants. She’s been a small-sized Fenix customer for years, and this entirely misses the boat in her opinion.”
This how MIP users feel about losing proper always on displays with proper glanceability and battery life.
A 43mm Fenix 8 Pro MIP version without Satellite connectivity would have provided a real successor to the 945 LTE, without the bulk, poor battery life and exorbitant prices of the models they released today.
Fun fact: MIP based touchscreen watch are actually more expensive to make than AMOLED displays these days (at this quality level). Though, companies have largely convinced everyone it’s the opposite.
Oh Shucks. I am guessing that they cannot drop the touchscreen layer for a watch like the Fenix. They could have offered a 43mm AMOLED without satellite connectivity at a cheaper price?
“Fun fact: MIP based touchscreen watch are actually more expensive to make than AMOLED displays these days (at this quality level). Though, companies have largely convinced everyone it’s the opposite.”
That’s pretty interesting but not so surprising to me.
“Though, companies have largely convinced everyone it’s the opposite”
Haha ofc everything that’s newer is always better by definition and more expensive out of necessity. Garmin would never tell ppl that MIP displays are more expensive, or that there are no (important) tradeoffs when switching to AMOLED.
It’s kinda like when dumbphones switched from tactile buttons to crappy touchscreens (not nice touchscreens like we have today). The user experience was actually worse, but companies saved money by ditching expensive physical buttons. Those pennies add up when you multiply them by millions of units sold.
Even to this day it’s probably a reason (other than fashion) why some controls that used to be physical buttons are now resistive touch-sensitive spots. (Like the control buttons on computer monitors.) Ironically, physical buttons are probably seen as a premium feature (the more expensive gaming monitors have them.)
Maybe one day MIP will also be seen as a rare, but premium, feature. Hahaha jk that will never happen.
People have been complained about dull, washed out MIP displays that don’t look like the picture on the box for 10+ years already.
The only hope for MIP is for enough time to pass that it becomes retro cool, like vinyl, cassette tapes and casio watches. Except all of those things had a huge cultural impact, unlike Garmin MIP watches. No normal person ever looked at a Garmin MIP watch and said “wow that’s cool”. I have heard the opposite comment, like “it doesn’t like real” – this was around the time that Apple Watch was first launched. Imagine wearing a watch that looks so bad that people think the screen is fake.
(I’m all for AMOLED in almost any other device, including a regular smartwatch – if I wore one. But just for my running watch, I kinda prefer function over form/aesthetics. Same reason I think an ereader is better for reading than an ipad or phone)
My thoughts exactly. For me MIP is superior and Garmin should have invested in the tech in terms of resolution and visibility. Instead they went the other way, making as many cheap and flashy displays as possible and now they copy Apple by advertising useless brightness and shortening battery life. It’s ironic that I switched from AW because I hated the wrist gesture and now they force me to use it by ditching MIP in smaller watches. Ray never understood that for some it’s all about wanting to glance at the watch instead of waving hands every time we wanna check time or stats. And that freaking disappearing seconds hand is so annoying…
“Ray never understood that for some it’s all about wanting to glance at the watch instead of waving hands every time we wanna check time or stats.”
Ahh yes, the not-at-all-usable Fenix 8 MIP Solar map screen the moment you’re in the shade on a sunny day…until the backlight triggers by the…wait for it…wrist movement.
It’s so obvious how much the MIP diehards never actually try this stuff out in the real world, let alone any AMOLED displays made in the past few years.
Ray, with all respect, you seem like an AMOLED diehard here. I have not tried AMOLED yet, but I have no problems with my MIP watch. I don’t understand what lack of visibility problems you have with MIP, except that you seem to be badmouthing MIP at every occasion. Even now, 11pm, with backlight off and in sleep mode, and I can read the time at an angle of 45 deg.
Why I don’t want AMOLED: With always-on display the battery life is too short. And I want a watch that always shows the time, even if I don’t move my hand.
I have no problems with MIP. I just see a ton of misinformation.
As you noted, you haven’t tried AMOLED. But, AMOLED does show the time, always, in always-on mode. There are certainly use-cases for MIP, such as longer battery life in certain watches.
But display visibility in various conditions is certainly not one of those MIP wins. Anyone who has tried them side-by-side quickly realizes that.
I fully agree AMOLED shows the watch all time in AOD, but that’s now what I said. The battery life for AOD is not good enough for me. From your review: F8 51mm MIP Solar (without taking solar into consideration): 30 days. F8 51mm AMOLED AOD: 13 days. That’s 2.3x worse life, and if we add some sun, 2.5x.
And the problem here is not 13 days per se. It’s that with training and GPS, it’s lower (both for MIP and for AMOLED).
Side-note: I was _really_ hoping MLED will be in-between, and I was ready to order. But somehow, MLED is _worse_.
The visibility issues are more due to the combination of solar and sapphire over MIP displays. But MIP battery life is so good, that you can do without solar, and gorilla glass is super tough on small devices like watches.
It would be interesting to see if the MIP screen that Coros used on the Nomad is superior to what Garmin has used.
Same here. I want an always on display, and don’t want to have to charge my watch every couple of days to get it.
Yes, AMOLED might be easier to read but frankly I quite like it muted – it’s not a smartphone.
The other thing I don’t get is why Garmin seem to be assuming that just because I want MIP and a battery life (in AOD) over a week, that I also want solar and sapphire. I don’t. So frustrating. Gonna keep my 6 Pro going as long as I can, then probably look at other makes.
As for LTE, I just want the ability for my partner to reliably track me in events that don’t allow phones. Would have loved a separate little dongle that existing watches can connect to (ble / Wi-Fi) to do live track, but guess there’s not enough money in that for Garmin.
““Ray never understood that for some it’s all about wanting to glance at the watch instead of waving hands every time we wanna check time or stats.”
Ahh yes, the not-at-all-usable Fenix 8 MIP Solar map screen the moment you’re in the shade on a sunny day…until the backlight triggers by the…wait for it…wrist movement.
It’s so obvious how much the MIP diehards never actually try this stuff out in the real world, let alone any AMOLED displays made in the past few years.”
—
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I will reiterate that for me:
– The thing with MIP is about *glanceability* (visibility without a deliberate wrist turn), *not* visibility after a wrist turn and waiting for the watch to go to full brightness. In your own words, Garmin says the glanceability of their MicroLED display is a “big advantage”
Garmin can’t have it both ways: can’t say that glanceability means nothing when MIP delivers it, but tout glanceability as a big advantage when it comes to MicroLED.
Everyone, including you (Ray) pointed out that users need to turn their wrist to bring the watch to full brightness during an activity, but it’s nbd.
So if it’s nbd, it’s nbd. I train with lots of ppl who run workouts by feel and/or by keeping up with their pace group and never look at their watches. Not everyone needs instant glanceability.
But understand that some people like glanceability. And by repeating Garmin’s statement about MicroLED glanceability being a big advantage, you are implying that glanceability is a good thing, too.
– I’ve tried recent Apple Watches and I like the display. One thing I’ll say is that their gesture detection seems to be better than Garmin’s.
—
“As you noted, you haven’t tried AMOLED. But, AMOLED does show the time, always, in always-on mode. There are certainly use-cases for MIP, such as longer battery life in certain watches.”
—
I never said AMOLED doesn’t show the *time* always, in always-on mode. I said it doesn’t always show a *seconds indicator* on the watchface, in always-on mode. Just like Apple Watches (other than Series 8), the seconds indicator disppears roughly 5 to 8 seconds after you turn your wrist or press a button.
MIP devices can show a seconds indicator *always* (24/7/365). They can also show other small pieces of information that change once-per-second, persistently (24/7/365). AMOLED Garmins cannot.
i’m very familiar with how this works, as I develop CIQ apps as a hobby. (I do other kind of development in my day job).
This is also why I asked with Garmin’s MicroLED display shows *seconds* all the time.
I will also say that there is evidence people care about seeing the seconds indicator all the time (or rather, not having it disappear after a few seconds):
– Apple Watch Series 8 touts 1Hz refresh rate for select watch faces, which means they show seconds all the time. Previous Apple Watches would not do this. The fact that the brag about this and that people care means it’s seen as a desirable feature
– In the dev documentation for Connect IQ watchfaces, Garmin talks about how MIP watches (and not AMOLED watches) can show a persistent seconds indicator (and other small data that changes once per second, like heart rate). They noted that some users like to quickly glance at their watch, so this feature is a win.
BTW, even though built-in watchfaces for MIP devices have supported persistent seconds forever, *CIQ* watchfaces only gained this ability around 2017 (it was said that special hardware was required to do this in an energy-efficient – note that CIQ apps, including watchfaces, have always been more battery-hungry than their built-in counterparts). At the time Garmin promoted this feature to devs. Again, one cannot argue that persistent seconds means nothing to people when Garmin has promoted it themselves.
– In the Fenix 8 Garmin forums, people are complaining that the seconds indicator displays after a few seconds (maybe 5 to 8 seconds). They are especially complaining that the timeout for CIQ watchfaces is shorter than the timeout for
Keep in mind these people *like* AMOLED and care nothing about MIP. MIP usually isn’t even brought up in the discussion. A lot of people aren’t even aware that Garmin MIP devices *generally* have persistent seconds. (There may be some exceptions, like Instinct in general, or analog watchfaces on Fenix 7. But I’ve used MIP Forerunners since 2013, and the built-in watchfaces have always had persistent seconds)
—
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t spouted any misinformation. I like MIP for instant glanceability, I know it has lots of disadvantages compared to AMOLED, like small number of colours, poor colour accuracy, low resolution (so it’s bad for maps), low refresh rate, looking terrible indoors, etc.
What it shines at is glanceability outdoors in bright sunlight. And at night, I can just have the backlight on indefinitely (at the cost of battery life). Having a Garmin AMOLED at full brightness *all the time* during an activity isn’t possible bc Garmin won’t allow it.
Again, if glanceability were a non-issue, Garmin would not suddenly be touting as a big advantage for microled.
If a persistent seconds indicator were not nice to have, Garmin wouldn’t have touted it as a feature for MIP watches in the past, and Apple wouldn’t have touted it as a feature for Series 8.
As you (Ray) pointed out, Polar has special behaviour for at least one of their AMOLED watches where they keep the display glanceable the whole time during an activity, by continuously flipping the display between super bright to bright, at the cost of battery life, to support the use case of mounting the watch on a bike handlebar, where it’s obviously not possible to do a gesture, and it’s not practical to press a button.
So in that case, Polar also thinks that being always visible/glanceable is a consideration.
I know that in later reviews, you mentioned this use case is not a problem for Garmin since the motion of the bike typically triggers the gesture (and full brightness) all the time, anyways.
TL;DR
– I think AMOLED looks great
– I think AMOLED has tradeoffs with MIP, just like Garmin admits it has tradeoffs with MicroLED
– I like 2 things about MIP:
— instant glanceability during activities. (Glance at my watch during hard running workout and see stats instamtly without gesture/button press and waiting a split second for the display to go to full brightness)
— persistent display of seconds on the watchface (and other data like HR). This is another form of glanceability
– Through their actions and words in the past and present, Garmin admits glanceability and persistent display of seconds on watchfaces are actually things that people want
– I realize MIP has lots of disadvantages compared to AMOLED. If I only wanted a smartwatch and not a running watch, Apple Watch would be a no-brainer
– I am asking good faith question about MicroLED as to whether it has the two things I said I like:
— glanceability during activities. It seems like you already answered this question in the hands-on text
— persistent seconds indicator on watchfaces. This is not so clear to me
These are two things I wanted to know especially ever since MicroLED Garmins were leaked last year, and even before that, when MicroLED Garmins were simply speculated on.
“– In the Fenix 8 Garmin forums, people are complaining that the seconds indicator displays after a few seconds (maybe 5 to 8 seconds). They are especially complaining that the timeout for CIQ watchfaces is shorter than the timeout for”
Sorry meant to write people are complaining that the seconds indicator *disappears* after a few seconds.
Again, this is common to all Garmin AMOLED devices, and to all Apple watches (except select watch faces on Series 8).
One can argue it’s nbd, but they cannot deny it happens. And no one can deny that nobody is complaining about this. (It may be a tiny minority of ppl tho)
No one can deny that most MIP watches have a persistent seconds indicator on built-in watchfaces, and that MIP watches released from 2017 onwards have the option for persistent seconds in CIQ watchfaces (if the dev choose to opt-in and write the code to support this behaviour).
(Ofc I mean the seconds indicator on a *watchface* disappears after a few seconds, not on the timer during activities)
> And no one can deny that nobody is complaining about this. (It may be a tiny minority of ppl tho)
Sorry, I meant:
“And no one can deny that people are complaining about this. (It may be a tiny minority of ppl tho)”
Yeah, my comments are too long and badly edited.
> “In the Fenix 8 Garmin forums, people are complaining that the seconds indicator displays after a few seconds (maybe 5 to 8 seconds). They are especially complaining that the timeout for CIQ watchfaces is shorter than the timeout for”
Again, sorry. The correct text should be:
“In the Fenix 8 Garmin forums, people are complaining that the seconds indicator disappears after a few seconds (maybe 5 to 8 seconds), for AMOLED watCHES. They are especially complaining that the timeout for CIQ watchfaces is shorter than the timeout for built-in watchfaces”
I will say that while the shorter timeout for CIQ watches may or may not be under the dev’s control, it’s undeniable that both built-in and CIQ watchfaces have a timeout in AMOLED watches. When you turn your wrist or press a button, the watchface goes into “high-power mode” for a few seconds, at which point it can update the whole screen once-per-second, including showing a seconds indicator. After it times out, it updates once a minute.
In the Garmin ecosystem, only MIP watches can show a persistent seconds indicator on a watchface (and other small pieces of data that change once per second, like HR). (Unless MicroLED Garmins can now do it too.)
“Ahh yes, the not-at-all-usable Fenix 8 MIP Solar map screen the moment you’re in the shade on a sunny day…until the backlight triggers by the…wait for it…wrist movement.”
—
Again I will point out that one difference between MIP and AMOLED is that Garmin MIP devices are allowed to have the backlight on persistently (at the cost of battery life). Users have that *choice*, for full visibility during an activity (or otherwise), day or night, sunlight or shade. (Ofc MIP still looks bad indoors no matter what.)
Garmin AMOLED devices are *not* allowed to stay at full brightness (during an activity or otherwise), to avoid burn-in. (Ofc AMOLED still looks gorgeous no matter what, but it doesn’t have 100% glanceability outdoors.)
So:
– For MIP devices I can *choose* to have backlight on for an entire activity, which somewhat negates the argument that MIP also needs a wrist turn when it’s nighttime or not full sunshine. For AMOLED devices I cannot choose to have the brightness at 100% (or whatever it needs to be) for full an entire activity
– For MIP devices – at a glance I can get persistent seconds indicator and persistent live HR (whether those things are important is debatable – I don’t need live HR by any means but it’s fun to have). For AMOLED devices, I can’t see seconds or HR at a glance without wrist turn and small wait
Again if glanceability were not an issue, Garmin would not be touting it as a big advantage now (and in the past). Hopefully I am not misunderstanding what is meant by the “big advantage” in this specific case of Fenix 8 MicroLED.
No shade to you (Ray) or anyone else, but these nuances are never explored during reviews, and frankly I don’t blame you.
That doesn’t mean these nuances don’t exist, and it doesn’t mean that users don’t complain when they discover that, for AMOLED, the seconds indicator disappears a few seconds after wrist turn, or that they don’t like that a wrist turn is necessary to get good visiblity outdoors.
Yes, you covered the wrist turn quite extensively, but *nobody* ever mentions lack of persistent seconds on AMOLED. I will laugh if Garmin starts touting persistent seconds as an amazing feature for MicroLED (if it is the case that MicroLED has it), since they said nothing about the fact that MIP has it but AMOLED doesn’t.
Also, thank you for this hands-on and all the other content in general. I have been following you since 2013 and I appreciate everything you do! Tbh you’re a beacon in a sea of clickbait and low-effort tech “journalism”
@TomTom Frankly, that is nonsense. Garmin is the one player in the industry (maybe also Coros but really they had just missed the bus on OLED) that has continued to offer MIP options in their line-up, including as recent as with the Fenix 8 and Enduro 3.
Fact of the matter is that people overwhelming prefer OLED. As with most technological choices there are trade-offs between advantages for OLED/disadvantages of MIP (brighter, more colors, better colors, does not require backlight, higher resolution, thinner, cheaper, easier to manufacture) and the other way around (longer battery life, visibility without being ‘on’ in certain scenarios, somewhat easier/cheaper to incorporate solar).
These relative dis/advantages can shift over time as technological advances – but if anything, these changes favor OLED even more (burn-in has effectively been eliminated, power requirements keep getting lower, maximum brightness continues to increase, production keeps getting cheaper) while MIP technology has stagnated/peaked.
Are there people who (sometimes passionately) prefer MIP – definitely.
Is that preference based on actually (vs perceived benefits) – maybe/in some edge case.
But the market market has spoken on this: At similar price points and in pretty full knowledge of the differences/trade-offs, buyers overwhelmingly choose OLED.
MIP _might_ continue to be superior for a few people and certain edge cases, but ultimately the market for it is probably too small and it will follow steam engines, etc. into the technological dustbin/history books.
@Will That is a wall of text and will not spam the comments section by addressing all points.
But your entire argument is a strawman because the fundamental premise does not hold:
Your argument is based on the supposed superior ‘glanceability’ of MIP.
I (and many other people) disagree with that.
I agree that there are some specific/extreme scenarios where MIP has superior ‘glanceability’ over a dimmed OLED display – but conversely there are many scenarios where a dimmed OLED has superior ‘glanceability’ over an MIP display.
In my experience, most scenarios fall into the latter category, including many cited by MIP proponents, (like during an outdoor activity in bright sunlight).
Or paraphrasing your own words: The thing with OLED is that has superior *glanceability* (visibility without a deliberate wrist turn) over MIP even in dimmed mode, i.e., without a wrist turn and waiting for the watch to go to full brightness.
I have owned several MIP watches from Garmin over a decade…and have now owned 2 AMOLED watches from them as well (FR965 and Epic Pro 51). I have never had any issues seeing an AMOLED screen during a workout under any condition. I use my watches outdoors for at least 10-15 workouts per week. At this point, I would never buy another MIP watch again. AMOLED for me has been better in every situation.
What exactly is your use case that you find MIP to actually be more useful than AMOLED? I can’t even complain about battery life. I charge once every ~3 weeks.
@SG you’re welcome to disagree with everything I said and I fully admit I could be wrong about the glanceability argument.
I tried Apple Watch and it was just fine outdoors. Honestly for most use cases Apple Watch would be better than any Garmin.
I also said that I think AMOLED is superior in many ways and for most use cases.
> The thing with OLED is that has superior *glanceability* (visibility without a deliberate wrist turn) over MIP even in dimmed mode, i.e., without a wrist turn and waiting for the watch to go to full brightness.
All I’ll say is that every tech reviewer, including DCR, admitted that the “new thing” for AMOLED Garmins (compared to MIP) is you have to turn your wrist but that’s ok bc Apple Watch users are used to it. Now it’s being retconned to “you never had to turn your wrist”? I’m not gonna argue this point because I don’t have enough experience with AMOLED Garmins.
I will say that many people have complained poor gesture detection on Garmins, and anecdotally I think Apple Watch is much better at that, as they are at everything related to UX.
Back to my original points: I just said I like MIP for a *running watches* for the following reasons:
– my perception that it’s more glanceable than AMOLED (I could be wrong)
– the fact that the backlight – when needed – can be turned on indefinitely (e.g. at nighttime). Contrast with AMOLED watches where the brightness cannot be kept at max indefinitely
– the fact that a seconds indicator (and other small pieces of live data) can be displayed *persistently* (24/7/365) on the watch face.
If none of these things were a concern to anyone:
– Garmin would not say glanceability is a big advantage for microled
– Garmin would not have touted MIP watches with persistent seconds in the past (in the context of Connect IQ)
– Apple would not tout 1 Hz watchfaces for Series 8
As an analogy, nobody would say an ereader is prettier than an ipad or an phone display, but it’s better for reading. I realize it’s a niche market too.
I will also say that I actually agree with 99% of what you said here:
link to dcrainmaker.com
Except this:
> in pretty full knowledge of the differences/trade-offs
If ppl knew all of the trade-offs, the following topics would not exist in the garmin Fenix 8 forums:
– watchface seconds hand/indicator disappears too quickly (from a paramedic who uses his Garmin watchface as a timer for work)
– watch dims during an activity (I’ve seen multiple posts like this from ppl who want the watch to stay continuously visible – at full/sufficient brightness – during an activity)
– watch isn’t bright enough (sometimes)
A lot of these ppl give zero fs about MIP. They like AMOLED in general, they’re just not 100% happy with the performance of their Garmin.
I would argue that MIP does not have some of these disadvantages, in some cases.
I admit that MIP has lots of disadvantages. I realize people have been complaining about it for 10+ years.
You don’t have to like MIP and I don’t have to unconditionally love AMOLED.
I will happily get a MicroLED Forerunner if and when:
– the price is right
– it stays glanceable continuously during activities
– the watchface has persistent seconds (maybe this will never happen, so I’m flexible on this)
I will also say it’s a distinct possibility that some older Garmin users prefer AMOLED because they *require* the additional brightness. So AMOLED may actually be even more suited to Garmin’s demographics, compared to the average smartwatch users, in a twist of irony.
I’ve seen more than one comment saying that AMOLED than MIP is better for their presbyopia.
Personally I don’t have any problem seeing MIP displays:
– in bright sunlight
– at nighttime (with backlight, which I enable indefinitely after sunset, during activities)
Again, I cannot say anything definitively about Garmin AMOLEDs or even Apple Watch AMOLED because I don’t have enough experience with them.
But I can see why they would be superior for most uses cases anyway.
Finally I will point out that it’s that the gesture is required in at least *some* cases (meaning AMOLED isn’t perfectly glanceable), because:
– again, reviewers pointed out the wrist turn thing when the then-new Garmin AMOLEDs were unveiled
– some users complain about poor wrist turn detection (why would they complain about that if a wrist turn was always unnecessary)
– again, Garmin is touting the glanceability of microled as a “big advantage”. Why would do they do that if AMOLED was already perfectly glanceable.
Now you will say: in some (or many cases) MIP isn’t perfectly glanceable either. e.g. In the shade or at might.
And again I will counter with: With MIP I have the *choice* to enable the backlight indefinitely during activities. I do not have the choice with AMOLED to keep the display at full/sufficient brightness during activities.
And again I will point out that Polar made the decision to implement their own battery-burning hack to keep the AMOLED display at full brightness during activities. Why would they do that if somebody didn’t think it was necessary?
Also, my understanding of the performance of MIP vs AMOLED in bright sunlight is:
– MIP is reflective, so the brighter the natural light, the *more* visible it is
– AMOLED is transmissive, so the brighter the natural light, the *less* visible it is. That’s why both your phone and your AMOLED smartwatch have to go to high/full brightness when you’re outdoors
So it’s hard for me to see how AMOLED could be more glanceable than MIP in that specific scenario, unless the AMOLED watch was able to stay at full brightness all the time (which it is not).
But again, I could be wrong. Maybe if I ran with an Apple Watch or an FR965 for a few weeks I’d be super happy and never look back. As it is, I’ve only run outdoors with Apple Watch and never during a hard interval workout (which is my primary use case for glanceability)
I realize I’m creating a another wall of text but:
> But your entire argument is a strawman because the fundamental premise does not hold:
A strawman argument is a *bad faith* argument which attacks a position that the opponent does not hold. The metaphorical “strawman” is the fake position that is created to unfairly discredit their opponent.
A example of an actual strawman argument would be like me saying that you are wrong because in fact AMOLED is *not* more energy-efficient than MIP. But ofc you never said that AMOLED is more energy-efficient than MIP.
I’m pretty sure I never created a strawman out of anyone else’s opinions or arguments, but if I did, that was not my intent and I’m sorry.
My thing has always been an argument in good faith that I like MIP for a couple of reasons that I already mentioned, and also that there’s a few nuances about MIP vs AMOLED that are never mentioned in that popular discourse. Which is fine, but that doesn’t mean those nuances don’t exist. (I already mentioned a few complaints that come up every now and then, regarding those nuances)
It’s fine for you to say that my premise is invalid, but please don’t accuse of creating a strawman argument, as that suggests I’m just here to make bad-faith arguments and smear people who disagree with me.
On the contrary, it’s pretty easy for me to see that the AMOLED users are the “normal” people here (which hold the extreme majority opinion) and people like me (who like MIP for a couple of reasons) are in the extreme minority.
All I wanted to do was explain why.
It’s almost never mentioned that MIP watchfaces have persistent seconds and AMOLED does not. But people still complain that the seconds indicator disappears on their AMOLED watchface, without being aware (or caring) that MIP does not have this problem
It’s never mentioned that the MIP backlight can be enabled indefinitely, while AMOLED cannot stay at full brightness indefinitely. I think this should be an obvious win when it comes to MIP glanceability – if MIP isn’t glanceable enough by default (like at nighttime), you can just turn on the backlight indefinitely (like during nighttime activities). If AMOLED isn’t glanceable in some cases, nothing can be done except to turn your wrist.
I didn’t say anyone has to care about those things. But I do, regardless of whether it’s weird or only reflecting a tiny minority of users.
But again, persistent seconds and glanceability have been touted in other cases, and very recently (e.g Apple Watch Series 8 1 Hz and microled’s “big advantage”). So some people *do* care, just not in the context of MIP because everyone has already decided that MIP sucks too bad for any purported advantages to matter. Which is fine with me.
I’ll wait for a nice MicroLED Forerunner. And again if I were not a runner I would happily rock an apple watch
“Ahh yes, the not-at-all-usable Fenix 8 MIP Solar map screen the moment you’re in the shade on a sunny day…until the backlight triggers by the…wait for it…wrist movement.”
Actually I have wrist gesture disabled in every mode, only use button when I need it, and the scenario you mentioned happens to me maybe twice a year when I actually use the map in shade on that tiny screen. On the other hand, when I used Epix (because I actually HAD IT for a month) I could not see anything while running/hiking/skitouring in sunlight until I actually twisted my wrist. Very convenient especially with a freaking ski pole and people right next to you or when I simply glanced down at the watch. And that constantly dimming screen with disappearing seconds hand – no thank you. Sold it and went back to Fenix 7.
Isn’t AMOLED turning off when not in AOD? Like fully-off, not just dimmed? Then how can it be superior in glanceability? My MIP is always visible (to some extent), in all situations.
If you’re talking about AOD, that’s not enough battery life then.
My issue with AMOLED on my Epix Gen 2 Pro is the sensitivity (or lack) of the gesture to activate the screen. Running I often have to press the light button to get it to activate because it doesn’t brighten and I can’t see the screen well enough in AOD mode. Really a pain in races. I wondered if the Fenix 8 is better at this and wish they had a setting to increase sensitivity.
> My issue with AMOLED on my Epix Gen 2 Pro is the sensitivity (or lack) of the gesture to activate the screen. Running I often have to press the light button to get it to activate because it doesn’t brighten and I can’t see the screen well enough in AOD mode. Really a pain in races. I wondered if the Fenix 8 is better at this and wish they had a setting to increase sensitivity.
I’ve seen complaints about Garmin wrist gesture detection for years, especially wrt to AMOLED models.
The Garmin forums are down for maintenance rn, but you can see ppl are still complaining about the wrist gesture.
link to google.com
Similar story on reddit:
link to google.com
Again anecdotally I will say Apple Watch seems better at this. It’s not to say you should use Apple Watch instead, but only to point out that it’s apparently not impossible for wrist gesture detection to be better.
This is simply not the case, Ray.
Even with AOD turned I have to flick my wrist to see the time when in daylight. Especially while riding my bike to work the angle of the watch while my hands are on the handlebar make the display not-so-usable.
I am in no way an MIP diehard, but AMOLED most deffinately have it’s limitations. As does MIP. None of them are superior to the other, if you ask me. Depends on your usecase.
For me, I have been very dissapointed with my purchase of the AMOLED. Poor visability in in sunlight and intrusive in darker conditions.
You won’t convince people who gladly wave their hands in order to see anything because they’re used to it on Apple Watches and due to a stupid trend are now becoming used to it on every other watch. In terms of usability it’s a regression. They will never understand that for some of us AMOLED in an outdoor watch is useless just like AMOLED would be useless in an ebook reader.
“Especially while riding my bike to work the angle of the watch while my hands are on the handlebar”
You literally have to twist your wrist already to see any watch on your handlebars. Factually speaking, it’s facing outbound. A wrist turn is already happening.
“Poor visability in in sunlight”
Again, if you’re having poor visibility in any recent AMOLED watch, then something is configured incorrectly.
No Ray, you don’t have to, MIP is easily visible at an angle. Maybe, depending on sun’s position, you have to move your hand by a couple o millimeters but you don’t have to take it off handlebars. I would understand your logic If you still lived in Amsterdam but on Mallorca??
Everyone has their preferences but there’s no denying that Garmin, in pursuit of bigger earnings, left its loyal customers with nothing to buy and this shouldn’t happen.
I’m not talking about that.
I’m talking about the simple fact that when your hands are on a typical road bike handlebar, you can’t see the face of any watch, period. It’s faced outwards. Whether on hoods or drops. If talking MTB, then neither is an issue. Same goes for general purpose bikes.
For road bikes – you’re right. Was taking about regular and MTB. But there’s no chance you can see AMOLEDs AOD in that scenario while riding in the sun. That’s why MicroLED has a huge advantage over it. But then battery life drops from MIPs 30 to 4 days 😉
@TomTom Incorrect. I can easily see the time and other stats on the AMOLED display in dimmed AOD state while riding a bike in bright sunlight/daylight. Not an issue whatsoever.
Either something has changed since I was using the first Epix in 2022 or you’re lying. Why would Ray say: “Instead, it’s primarily been about off-angle viewing when your wrist is down (and the backlight isn’t activated). This aims to solve it, without smashing the battery. That’s sorta the goal here and is something Garmin heavily touts as being a big advantage. Here’s an example side-by-side…” and then show a picture clearly showing that what you’re saying isn’t true.
Actually, what Steve Jobs would do was more clever than what you claim. He would talk about why current implementations of a feature were terrible and why no one would want them. Then in future version, Apple would introduce a version that did not have those limitations (it may still have had other limitations, just not the ones that he bashed).
@Alan Wynn
You’re right, I wasn’t being entirely fair to Jobs. What you said is true in many cases.
But I’m specifically thinking about that time he said Kindle will fail because “people don’t read anymore”. 2 years later he unveiled the first iPad…and iBooks.
It’s fine – Apple is and was great at marketing. Their products are overpriced, but they are great at design and user experience. You cannot compare the UX of a Garmin watch to an Apple Watch, or the UX of Garmin Connect to anything that Apple makes.
@SG so you are saying the wrist turn isn’t necessary for you (when you use AMOLED). That’s great! I’m legit happy that your experience is good.
I will say that a wrist turn is not necessary for me, either (when I use MIP).
– I have never had the problem of being unable to see a MIP Forerunner during a race (like someone else said). Are they making it up to get attention? Many people are saying that they need the wrist gesture to use AMOLED effectively. Why should we believe only you and not anyone else? Furthermore, no reviewer claims that you don’t need the wrist gesture
– In general I don’t need the backlight in daylight
– When I do need the backlight (at night), I leave it on indefinitely (i.e. no backlight timeout during activities, after sunset). I have this choice (which is *never* mentioned anywhere), while AMOLED users do not have the choice to have full brightness indefinitely. It’s a fact that Garmin AMOLED watches will always dim after a time out.
In *general*, I don’t think it’s possible that the wrist gesture is unnecessary for AMOLED Garmins, for all users, or even most users.
There is a mountain of evidence here, and most of it comes from AMOLED users/reviewers who give zero Fs about MIP.
Here’s what I’ve seen re: AMOLED Garmins for the past couple of years:
– Every reviewer of then-new AMOLED Garmins, including Ray, went out of their way to mention that you have to turn your wrist, but it’s ok because Apple Watch users are fine with it.
If AMOLED were no different than MIP in this regard, there would be no need to mention this in a review. You don’t see Ray (or anyone else) mentioning that you have to turn your wrist in reviews of MIP Garmins from before the AMOLED era.
– As Ray reported, one Polar AMOLED watch has a hack to continuously keep the display at full brightness during activities, at the cost of battery. Why would they do that if the watch doesn’t need to be at full brightness? Since the feature burns battery and can’t be turned off, that would be an insane move.
– Complaints on numerous platforms about the wrist gesture not being sensitive enough, including right here
– Complaints on numerous platforms about the display dimming during activities. Or people asking whether the display still dims, like previous Garmin AMOLED watches
– Complaints on numerous platforms about the dimmed display not being bright enough (especially outdoors), and people requesting for the display to stay bright during activities
I didn’t make up any of this stuff, including the comments on this very post. Just use your critical thinking skills and ask yourself why so many people, including people who are trying to *sell you on AMOLED*, talk about the wrist turn gesture? Are they all secretly pro-MIP trolls? Obviously not, and even if they were, everyone knows that MIP is basically dead now, so it would be a waste of time.
Besides that, there are complaints about the seconds indicator disappearing from watchfaces on AMOLED watches. Some people want it to stay on the screen for longer, or indefinitely. MIP watches have a persistent seconds indicator on watchfaces, but these people don’t even care about that, they just want more from their AMOLED watch. See, they don’t have a pro-MIP agenda, they have an “pro-wishing-their-Garmin-was-even-better” agenda.
None of this is to bash AMOLED or to say that MIP is unconditionally better than AMOLED, with no compromises. For me, AMOLED is not unconditionally better than MIP, either.
Rather, I think AMOLED is great, but there’s just 1 or 2 compromises that prevent it from being the perfect display for a running watch, *for me*.
My first comment was a couple of *good faith* questions about whether Garmin’s MicroLED watch has the same compromises. I could’ve easily written it without any reference to MIP, and I think the questions would still be valid.
Anyway, I will (sort of) answer one of my own questions:
– At least for Connect IQ watchfaces, Fenix 8 MicroLED still has disappearing seconds. Based on information in the Connect IQ SDK, this watch is no different than its AMOLED cousins when it comes to watchfaces. (It’s subject to burn-in protection rules, and when you’re not actively looking at your watch it can only update the screen once per minute. As with all Garmins, it does update the screen once per second for a few seconds after wrist turn or button press.)
If you want to say that persistent seconds don’t matter, that’s fine. Tell it to all the AMOLED users who want it, and to Apple who touted 1 Hz watchfaces for Series 8. If they do matter to some people, then I am allowed to ask whether MicroLED has them, and I am allowed to point out that loss of persistent seconds is a *tradeoff* for people who moved from MIP to AMOLED (assuming that they care about that feature).
@Alan Wynn
Also, Apple is pretty famous for never implementing a feature unless they can get the user experience right (as you implied).
I think that’s where they differed from most of their peers, and it’s been a net win for tech.
One great example is “retina” displays. Apple was mocked by some for putting a marketing label on what was “simply” high resolution displays at the time. But actually, what they did was a vast improvement on past efforts, beyond simply coining “retina display”.
Before “retina” displays, some laptop manufacturers (for example) would just stick a high resolution screen in a laptop, but there was no scaling support in the OS (e.g. Windows), so all the text and graphical elements would be tiny. You had a super sharp screen, but it was mostly unusable. High resolution screens in laptops remained very niche, as the downsides generally outweighed the benefits.
Apple legit revolutionized this kind of thing when they introduced “retina” displays: they added scaling to the OS, so you’d get a super sharp screen with legible text and a usable interface.
And actually, making up the term “retina display” wasn’t such a bad idea. Much better than the then-industry standard practice of throwing meaningless numbers at the general public. Only tech nerds like me would care about the raw specs. A normal person’s eyes would glaze over if you started talking about the resolution of a phone or laptop display. But people understood what “retina display” meant.
All these years later, *everyone* (iOS, macOS, Windows, Linux) uses display scaling for high-resolution displays. And almost every phone has a high-resolution screen.
(The funny thing is I used to be the biggest Apple hater, but they won me over eventually. I use all of Windows, Mac, and Linux tho.)
> Also, Apple is pretty famous for never implementing a feature unless they can get the user experience right (as you implied).
Contrast with Garmin, where they often implement as many features as possible (gotta pack that specs sheet), but some of them are nearly useless because of bugs, implementation issues, and/or poor UX.
Like the complaints of the Fenix 8 speaker not being loud enough. I saw that moment in Ray’s video review where he recorded a voice note, put the watch down on the table he was standing in front of, and pressed “play”. For me it was comedy gold when he instantly leaned down to put his ear to the watch so he could hear the audio.
Or how about the voice notes feature for workouts? On paper it seems great, but in practice (for me) it’s useless because the playback volume (over connected earbuds) is way too low, compared to the rest of audio.
So to be clear, I’m not bashing Apple at all. It would be great if Garmin could be more like Apple in some ways
MIP also has disappearing second hand with the native Garmin faces. I think this started during the life of the fenix 5 series but definitely the fenix 6X and 7X have a timeout on the second hand.
I came from the 7X to the fenix 8 51mm AMOLED and then had to go back to the 7X for a couple of months because of a fault when I was overseas and Garmin could not swap the replacement to me.
I will say that at first the AMOLED was disorienting for me primarily because of the color reverse and the fonts are much lighter than the MIP version that I have had for so many years. I was in equatorial Africa and I had no problem at any point reading the AMOLED display. The AMOLED vs MIP have different strengths though. At maximum noon the MIP is slightly better but there are in fact more circumstances where the AMOLED is superior including twilight, forest, and storm conditions.
I have the fenix 8 on AOD mode and LOW brightness in watch and AOD mode and HIGH brightness for activities. I would say the circumstances where I cannot glance the data is rare. However when I do want the wrist gesture to brighten the display the response is slightly slower than I would like.
The overall practical battery range is about equivalent between the 7X and 8 51mm AMOLED.
My main complaint is that I prefer an analog dial and I actively dislike most of the watch faces Garmin bundles. The Deep Sea is OK at best. I have ended up using the Windsor face by Roboleo Apps. This is the first time I seriously used a CIQ watch face.
I think it is pretty uncontroversial to say the AMOLED display is better for general purpose sports use. I think the only sensible use of MIP is in a specialty watch like the Enduro range where they are really focusing on extended range.
On the other hand the LTE and satellite features in the 8 pro series seem to have a large number of trade-offs and limitations: thicker, loss of range, connectivity limitations. It’s really optimized for LiveTrack in town or a marathon/iron man. Plus it’s limited to USA and parts of Europe — notably not Italy. You still need an InReach or Spot for tracking and comms in back country adventures in the current state. I think this needs to bake at least another generation.
And the uLED seems hardly more than a curiosity. I question the executives that green-lit going to market with the uLED in the current state.
@Will
Apple doesn’t have anything similar to Garmin Connect.
As for the UX of the watches (for me currently an Ultra and an Epix 2, starting with a series 0 and an original Fenix), the Apple UX is far more touch screen oriented. My Ultra has 3 buttons, a regular AW has 2, while the Epix has 5. Touchscreen control is great for most things, but when you’re outdoors with gloves on it’s not so wonderful. My Ultra is my daily wear, the best smartwatch available for an iPhone owner, but it’s my Epix I take when hiking or cross country skiing. The AW is a lousy sports watch, and I don’t think anything that happens on Tuesday will change that. I’ll get an Ultra 3 if the rumored blood pressure and/or blood sugar detection is actually true, otherwise I’ll probably stick with my Ultra for a fourth year. (Being on the Apple Upgrade Program, I’ll most certainly be getting a iPhone 17 Pro.)
> MIP also has disappearing second hand with the native Garmin faces. I think this started during the life of the fenix 5 series but definitely the fenix 6X and 7X have a timeout on the second hand.
When you say second *hand* it sounds like you might be specifically referring to analog watchfaces. I said seconds “indicator” on purpose, because I was also talking about digital watchface.
To clarify, it depends on the model, the type of watchface (analog or digital), and whether it’s a built-in watchface or a Connect IQ watchface.
– Some MIP watches (like Instinct) have disappearing seconds indicators (analog or digital) for all built-in watchfaces
– Some MIP watches have disappearing analog seconds hand, but persistent digital seconds (I don’t have a Fenix, but that’s what I’ve heard from Fenix users)
– Some MIP watches have both persistent analog seconds hand and digital seconds indicator: every Forerunner I’ve used is like this, including my FR955 (similar software and generation to Fenix 7)
– ALL MIP watches released since 2017 can have persistent seconds for Connect IQ watchfaces, provided the developer of the watchface implements support in code
The last point is a nuance that is lost on most people. (Which is understandable – wouldn’t expect most ppl to care, even if they care about persistent seconds)
> I think it is pretty uncontroversial to say the AMOLED display is better for general purpose sports use
Can’t argue with that. Like I said, most runners don’t even glance at their watch, so glanceability is not a concern.
Obviously AMOLED is much better for looking at maps, and for the general user experience. (More colours, brighter display and faster refresh rate all improve the UX. Apple Watch is a joy to use compared to any MIP Garmin.)
AMOLED displays are also better for general purpose use, period.
But I wish Garmin would employ the Polar hack for keeping the display at full brightness during activities, as an option.
If wrist turns and display dimming weren’t issues, you wouldn’t see agenda-less users talking about them all the time.
> Apple doesn’t have anything similar to Garmin Connect.
That’s true.
Sorry, I was making an apples-to-oranges comparison: Apple’s general software UX compared to Garmin’s Connect UX (and the UX of any other Garmin software)
I just mean that the user experience of Garmin’s software is generally bad. And in *general*, Apple has a huge focus on user experience. They’re not perfect, but clearly they care.
I’ve already written way too much here, so I won’t go in-depth, but just look at:
– selecting shoes in the Connect app. I’ve talked to normie users who give zero Fs about technical things, and they agree that selecting shoes is bad
– trying to look at *all* your courses in the Connect website, if you have even one course outside of your immediate “home” geographic location. There’s a reason multiple users have said that they can’t see all their courses
I will also say that most runners I know use Strava, and rarely (or never) open Connect. One guy I know said Connect is too complicated (he’s a grad student btw)
> However when I do want the wrist gesture to brighten the display the response is slightly slower than I would like.
Common complaint, and it comes from people like you who *like* AMOLED.
Polar has (apparently) proven it’s possible to keep the AMOLED display at full brightness during activities (at the cost of battery life), so again, it would be really great if Garmin would have that as an option. But I can’t see them doing this (as it doesn’t seem to be industry-wide practice).
> I think it is pretty uncontroversial to say the AMOLED display is better for general purpose sports use
I have also seen a handful of complaints from users who use the watch in cases where they can’t turn their wrist or press a button:
– weightlifting (iirc)
– rowing
And ofc there’s the use case that even Ray called out:
– mounting watch on bike handlebars. In early AMOLED reviews, even Ray said this might be a use case which AMOLED isn’t suited for. [*] More recently he has implied that it’s not a problem because the constant motion of the bike (little bumps and shocks) triggers the backlight anyway. But this is the exact use case which led Polar to implement a hack for continuous full brightness during activities, according to Ray
[*] again this is another data point which suggests that the wrist gesture is needed for AMOLED in some cases where it would be unnecessary for MIP, despite some denials. Otherwise Ray himself wouldn’t have previously said or implied that maybe a MIP watch is better for this one use case where you can’t use the wrist gesture.
tbh it boggles my mind that anyone could argue that the wrist gesture is (generally) unneeded for AMOLED watches, when almost every discussion of AMOLED Garmins literally revolves around the wrist gesture, and every review of the then-new AMOLED Garmins made sure to mention it.
Fun thought experiment: take away the wrist gesture (as well as any other way to turn on the backlight / full brightness) from both FR955 (MIP) and FR965 (AMOLED) and see which of them would be more useful in daylight.
In fact I only have used analog faces on any fenix so if there is a different behavior for the seconds on digital faces, I wouldn’t know. But on the fenix MIP version for the past several years the second hand times out after a few seconds.
CIQ faces caused the MIP devices to have substantially worse battery life. Ironically this seems to be much less the case in my experience with AMOLED. I think the actual direct lighting up of pixels is much more expensive than the compute inefficiency of the MonkeyDo runtime or it has just got better since I last tried a CIQ face which was admittedly on the 5X.
Any use of a watch on handlebars is non-optimal. No watch is optimized for handlebars. That’s why there are Edge bike computers but I am willing to believe that the MIP display may be less non-optimal.
I’m also saying glanceability with AOD HIGH during activity is quite good. It has to be extremely sunny conditions for there to be an issue where I really need to have the wrist flick brighten up to see what I’m trying to glance.
Contrariwise the readability of MIP at dusk, in shadow, and in storms is poor. (I used gesture backlight after dark mode.) In particular the solar sapphire was not great and the solar part turns out to be 99% gimmick. The balance for me is easily in favor of AMOLED and until recently I was living in sunny equatorial tropical conditions.
Maybe I am just deluded and forgot how great
MIP was, but I don’t think so. The increased area of the 6X was a big upgrade. The solar 7X was a small downgrade. The AMOLED is an upgrade — in my opinion.
I also personally have no problem reading the AMOLED display for HIIT and gym sessions. I can only imagine an issue if you were using it in display timeout mode — which I think you would never be the default. I also cannot understand the people who claim not to be able to read the AMOLED indoors or in the dark. I don’t have any experience of those problems.
If they ran the display at max intensity for a whole activity it would torch the battery. I’m struggling to really criticize the power management decisions on the AMOLED brightness as the net result is practical parity between my 7X and my 8 51mm AMOLED. It’s enough for ultramarathon events. You have to be into 100 mile plus foot races, multi-day races, or fast packing and through hiking to really contemplate the enduro 3.
Thinking back on the nearly useless solar capability of the 6 and 7, I would say that Garmin has and will flog a flagship feature of dubious benefit.
“Contrariwise the readability of MIP at dusk, in shadow, and in storms is poor. (I used gesture backlight after dark mode.) In particular the solar sapphire was not great and the solar part turns out to be 99% gimmick. The balance for me is easily in favor of AMOLED and until recently I was living in sunny equatorial tropical conditions.”
Yes this is fair but I will continue to say that when MIP needs the backlight, it can be turned on indefinitely. I don’t think most people actually knew this, back when MIP was the only option for Garmins.
I see one other person in this comment section who mentioned that. Probably the first comment like that I’ve seen in a year or so.
During the day I don’t need the backlight. For night time I use I set the backlight to not timeout during activity (after sunset). That way I go for a run at night and have the backlight on continuously. Ofc it burns battery, but at least I have the option.
I will say that other than the case of darkness, MIP probably performs the worst indoors, under not-so-bright artificial light. In this case you may need the backlight but you’re probably also not be willing to keep the backlight on indefinitely, just for indoors general use. So indoors general use is def where MIP suffers (and ofc it makes you look bad in front of your apple watch-wearing peers).
But I don’t care so much as I primarily use my Garmin outdoors, day or night, for running. When I use it for the the gym, the indoor lighting is bright. When I use it for other stuff (like basketball), I’m not even wearing the watch on my wrist.
Ofc these are just my personal use cases and experiences.
“Maybe I am just deluded and forgot how great MIP was, but I don’t think so”
I don’t think you or anyone else is deluded for liking AMOLED, and I never suggested that. Like I said, there’s lot of things to like.
I also don’t think anyone who has problems with AMOLED is deluded (or trolling), either.
I think most people, myself included, are sharing their legit personal experiences.
“If they ran the display at max intensity for a whole activity it would torch the battery.”
But they don’t give users the option. I have seen several posts from Garmin users asking for this feature.
I think they’re also worried about display burn-in, not just battery life. MIP users are allowed to burn battery by keeping the backlight on indefinitely (I realize the battery impact may not be quite the same).
When Ray described the Polar hack for keeping the AMOLED display continuously bright during activities, he said they constantly flip between high and super high brightness, and this was the only way they could avoid burn-in. (Not sure if I quite understand that, but that’s what they said, according to him).
> Thinking back on the nearly useless solar capability of the 6 and 7, I would say that Garmin has and will flog a flagship feature of dubious benefit.
Can’t argue there. Garmin loves their marketing bullet points
> Any use of a watch on handlebars is non-optimal. No watch is optimized for handlebars. That’s why there are Edge bike computers but I am willing to believe that the MIP display may be less non-optimal.
“I am willing to believe that the MIP display may be less non-optimal.”
Yes, for this one case, even DCR said that an AMOLED watch may not be recommended, for his review of one the first AMOLED Garmin watches. Btw, he’s the one who brought it up. That implies to me that using your watch on bike handlebars isn’t some insane edge case that never happens. I wouldn’t know, as I’m not a cyclist. But that use case has been mentioned here more than once. More recently, DCR said that actually using an AMOLED watch on bike handlebars is ok since the bumps and shocks of the ride tend to keep the display bright anyway. (I forget if he was specifically talking about MTB or not.)
Anyway, it’s an additional data point to support the idea AMOLED watches *need* the gesture in some cases where MIP watches do not, despite protestations to the contrary.
The point isn’t to score points and say “see MIP is better in this one case”.
The point is to affirm that using the gesture (or button press) to bring the AMOLED screen to max brightness is in fact, actually something that is necessary in many (daytime) use cases.
Ofc at night it’s the opposite: MIP needs the backlight, but AMOLED may not need full brightness. But the difference here is:
– most people do more outdoor activities during the day compared to night
– for people who like to run at night (like me), MIP devices can turn on the backlight indefinitely
My overall point is I don’t like the gesture and I would prefer to avoid it when running. With a MIP watch, I can.
There’s lots of other things to like about AMOLED, but the gesture is unavoidable, except for that one dude who claims he doesn’t need the gesture for AMOLED (fine, I believe him), but who also implies that nobody else needs the gesture for AMOLED either, which is just plain ridiculous given the amount of discourse surrounding the gesture and AMOLED display dimming. If nobody needed the gesture, nobody would be talking about it (e.g. gesture not detected, gesture too laggy, etc). If the dimmed display was bright enough in all cases, nobody would be asking for the display to not dim. And Garmin would not be hyping up MicroLED’s “big advantage”.
“But on the fenix MIP version for the past several years the second hand times out after a few seconds.”
It used to disappear after 5 minutes on a Fenix 5. On Fenix 7 it disappears after 30 seconds so while a regression, it’s still better than AMOLED.
“Everyone has their preferences but there’s no denying that Garmin, in pursuit of bigger earnings, left its loyal customers with nothing to buy and this shouldn’t happen.”
Say again…what kind of statement is that? If that would be true and you would still be buying Garmin, then shame on you and only you! Because in the case that Garmin is the only company out there that would produce faulty products that don’t allow you to check time without you turning your wrist, then there would be a plethora of other companies providing the world with better devices. It seems, this is very much a you problem….or shall we say an “only you” problem. I have a Tactix 7 and a Tactic 7 AMOLED. They are both almost perfect of each possible scenario, indoors and outdoors. And if I would think they are inadequate, I would feel them and get something else and wouldn’t” waste my time whining how bad they are.You are welcome!
Super excited about the post but the vernacular seems to imply that everyone knows exactly what you are talking about when it comes to LTE and Satellite, which unfortunately is not the case for me, and I am sure many others. Maybe a quick second copy and paste from previous reviews with full explanations or links to them might be a bit more helpful to convey your meaning and therefore enthusiasm. It is kind of a bummer that I bought the EPIX Pro last year because of the screen upgrades just to find out nothing on the watch will be upgraded again. That seems like a bit of an underhanded action from Garmin. So, I went from the FENIX 7 to the EPIX 2, in the last 2 years and now they are both kind of crap when compared to the 8 and 8 Pro. Really expensive crap I might add. Maybe I am finally going to have to go to the Apple…which just sort of blows but I am sort of tired of getting kicked in the junk by this company that I have been so loyal to…
LTE = cell phone data, similar to your phone (except Garmin doesn’t give you all the features that a phone does). This is for basic messaging when you “on the grid”.
In this case you use Garmin’s own cell network, which requires a separate subscription. You should hopefully be able to use LTE-related features in most places you would normally get cell service.
Satellite = connectivity when you’re off the grid. This is available in more places than cell data, like the remote wilderness, but it’s limited to emergency features. This is like the Emergency SOS feature on Apple iPhone or Apple Watch
> satellite…it’s limited to emergency features
Sorry I should say it’s mostly emergency features. Garmin is also offering satellite text messaging and location check-ins.
But as you can see from the feature list near the top, Garmin’s LTE service has many more features than their satellite service.
Is it just in the photo or does the microLED screen have a less black looking background than the Amoled one?
I’m pretty sure Garmin could have made a 43mm microLED model if they wanted without LTE.
Do you think we’ll be seeing solar microLED models? Or is that still the only area where they’d still use MIP?
£1800 and screen is still 1.4 in a 51mm watch….
I recall getting into a Facebook debate about LTE and suggesting that it wasn’t really something that many of us desperately needed. My reasons being, a bigger device to squeeze in the antennae and the likely subscription. I also wondered what the effect on battery life would be. TBH it gives me no pleasure to be proved right. In the UK at least, most of us don’t need satellite as we’re generally within cellular reach and over the last few years, it’s become much easier to carry a phone due to a multitude of trail shorts coming to market with loads of built-in, bounce-free storage (got three pairs of the Janji version which are brilliant and cost a fraction of the premium for the LTE plus sub). I’ve gone from never taking the phone to always taking it on runs of more than an hour. On the other side, MicroLED seems be solving a problem that didn’t exist except in myth. I would totally agree that modern AMOLED displays are readable in all conditions and why on earth would you want to view your watch at a strange angle when you can simply raise your wrist? The fact that it increases the thickness (and the cost) and worsens battery life is the final nail in the coffin on this implementation at least. These look like watches mostly for folk who live in FOMO-land and simply have to have the latest iteration. Hopefully my Epix Gen2 will carry on for a while yet, until there is a real step change from Garmin.
The UK does have good LTE…right up until you do stuff these devices are good at. We’re sailing the west coast of Scotland right now and no signal in a lot of places. We anchor, no signal in the anchorage then climb a mountain…no signal.
In my opinion satellite is more useful than LTE for outdoors watches. I won’t be upgrading as battery life and size are important to me more than connectivity. My partner (who likes that I can track her with Fenix8) won’t be upgrading because there’s no small version.
Ray was spot on in the review, and that’s good because Garmin always listen to him eventually.
Somewhat off-topic, but Garmin’s new Fenix 8 logo has major “Mario Kart 8 Deluxe” logo vibes, right down to the same blue-to-red color styling.
monitor => moniker, probably.
Thanks!
Hi Ray
Are you able to compare the speaker loudness for calls between Fenix 8 and Fenix 8 Pro?
The speaker loudness in Fenix 8 is poor – barely usable outdoors. Given now the LTE is main selling point of Fenix 8 Pro – have the speaker improved?
Also – just to confirm my understanding – when you subscribe InReach – do you have new phone number assigned (that you announce to your family/friends – that need to know how to reach you when you are away from phone)?
The Fenix 8 Pro appears to use the new louder speaker found in the FR970 & Venu X1.
You do not get a specific number. It’s all handled server-side via Garmin Messenger.
Regarding the loud speaker – good news. The one in Fenix 8 sucks.
So the caller has to have Garmin Messenger app to call the persons Fernix 8 Pro watch?
Correct.
I have an inReach mini 2 that I use when I go camping out of cellular network range (I have an iPhone with satellite too) and I pay for the Iridium subscription. If I were to get a F8Pro would this be included in my subscription of would I have to pay for a second one?
Ray mentioned above that you can’t have two inReach devices associated with your account, so two plans would definitely not be helpful. You’ll have to choose between using your inReach 2 or the F8P. He also mentioned Garmin plans on fixing this at some point – I imagine at that point your inReach plan credits would be shared across devices. (Garmin does currently have corporate inReach plans for guiding companies and such so that a single account can have multiple devices, so it would probably follow that model, roughly.)
I have consistently been keeping on a fēnix purchasing cadence where I wait to buy the Pro model, so I was really looking forward to today and upgrading from my fēnix 7 Pro Solar. But these additions are almost useless. I would have loved to be able to leave my inReach at home. But it sounds like if I ever actually have an emergency, I need to make sure I fall and land in a very specific shape so that my arm will be pointing exactly to the right satellite while I am immobilized.
Advertising this as having Emergency and SOS capabilities seems pretty unsafe and quite dangerous, if most of the time you need an SOS you won’t actually be able to send one out because you won’t be able to position yourself just right.
Also, it sounds like I’ll probably just be bumping down to the Enduro line after over 10 years of fēnix because of MIP.
So if I already have an inReach, and I get this watch, would I need to have two Enabled plans at a minimum just to be able to use both devices for different use cases? (Assuming they fix their glitch of not being able to add two devices on one account). Or would one enabled plan with LTE work for both devices?
My understanding is one device = one account, but I’ll confirm that’s the intent.
Garmin Europe have confirmed, via email, that you still cannot have two active devices on one account. For example, if you have a GPSMAP 67i or or Messenger Plus or H1i Plus with Iridium inReach service, you cannot add a Fenix Pro 8 with LTE-M/Skylo inReach service, even if you’re willing to pay for two subscriptions.
This is the text from the email: “I am afraid you would need to use a new account for the Fenix 8, You are unable to have two subscriptions for this under the same account if you are using the Fenix 8, Its one or the other sadly. This is a limitation with the device subscriptions.”
See what Ray replied to me yesterday, it confirms what you say, and additionally says later in the year both devices on a single plan will work.
Do recipients of text messages need the garmin messenger app? you seem to suggest that the app is only needed for phone calls and not for text, is that right?
2. As an aside, I see more grammatical typos that are fairly unusual on your posts. Curious if you rushed this out or is someone else responsible? 😄
Honestly, I thought the same… Here and in the Polar post as well. Busy day? Coffee machine broken? 😊
Some other reviews mention that for the other person to be able to speak to you on your F8 Pro on a purely LTE phone call, they need to have the Garmin Messenger app. (Can you confirm this Ray?) So in that case, the voice calling feature is a substantially less valuable addition. Is everyone your regularly going to call going to download the garmin messenger app and create a new garmin account, Not likely.
Yes, need the Messenger app to make LTE calls.
Yes, you need the Garmin Messenger app to call someone’s Garmin watch. My understanding is you don’t need a Garmin account though.
This is the most anticlimactic release ever for me. I was really excited about the battery upside of micro-LED; now that’s been flipped on its head. So now I would have a much thicker watch with much less battery for a much higher price? That math doesn’t math. I’ve got the money but just doesn’t make sense unless the battery was better. When either battery or screen technology evolves to allow that screen with at least equivalent if not better battery life, I think we’ll see more traction. Until then, it’s not a question of price that will keep people from buying it; it’s a lack of function.
I wonder what this means for the future of the MARQ series, now the microLED model of the Fenix 8 has leapfrogged the ‘entry level’ Gen 2 Athlete in terms of price.
This is no real cellular watch. Phone calls and texting only through a proprietary Garmin app, no music/podcast streaming, no mails, nothing standard.
It is 2025 and you still can not put your own eSim in your watch. My phone provider gives me free eSims (with my phone number) for all my devices and I can use my flatrate for internet traffic and calls. No idea why I would subscribe to this costly additional Garmin plan.
Exactly Steve.
I have been waiting for this for ages and it really falls flat. I get unlimited data for a watch with my mobile/cellular plan.
They want 9.99/month – nope.
Exactly mi situation. I guess I’ll keep my Apple Watch Ultra 2, which gives me everything a Fenix would, plus all the other smartwatch features, although with much battery life. But, at this point, battery life is the only tradeoff.
Can it share your mobile phone number for text messages, or does it have its own number? If the latter, it seems like the kind of feature that would only really get used by a spouse who knows that you just went out for a run.
No, it does not have it’s own number.
Can you call 112 (Europe) without paying a monthly fee?
In almost all cases where I run there is lte connectivity to at least one network (although not everywhere). It would be nice to have the option to call emergency services (for yourself or others) even though you don’t need a subscription on lte/satellite..
No payment = no LTE activation.
That’s a shame.
In the US, you can use pretty much any generation of unactivated cell phone to call 911.
Good reason to keep an old flip phone with a stable battery, in your trunk along with other emergency supplies.
I’m surprised that new devices don’t have the same capability.
The watch doesn’t act as a phone – the watch uses a data connection, so it acts as a laptop or an LTE router. It’s the Garmin backend that transmits the messages further as “normal” SMS messages (which is why the recipient gets them from a random number).
Good info, Pavel!
Makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
When I read somewhere that MicroLed is super energy efficient and doesn’t cause burn-in, I thought that this might be the MIPS Killer, at least for Garmin…but I also thought that ML would be around 1699. I was wrong on both accounts…ML is at this point totally overhyped and overpriced. If I get 4 days AOD out of the most expensive Fenix ever, then I guess I am out. This is now the 3 release F8, Instinct 3 and F8P is is somewhat anticlimactic.
I hope for Garmin that it pays off to innovate, but I will be on the sideline, sticking with my older models and waiting for something really cool.
Is this new Fenix LTE now banned from major Triathlon competitions? Wasn’t there a decision that you can”t have any LTE enabled watches?
And what about traveling to India, I read that if they find an inReach device on you when you come into the country and don”T declare it, you spend some time in jail.
17.5mm thickness brings back Fenix 3HR memories.
To me the Fenix line first and foremost is a rugged sportswatch, not a smartwatch. Maybe the Fenix9 lineup will feature something without LTE and satellite connectivity focusing on optimizing performance metrics… just me dreaming…
I got an Epix Pro gen 2 51 mm sapphire a few years ago, used. No reason for me to upgrade from this to any new Garmin model. Especially with their pricing nowadays. RIP Garmin. 😄 If they’ll cripple my Epix Pro with software updates or make me pay some subscription to use my Epix, I will try Suunto or Polar or something else that respects their customers.
Correction, not few years ago, last september. 😃
Hey Ray,
How about the minimum brightness ons the 8 pro, you write: “I find the newer Venu X1/FR970/etc still a bit too bright”, but don’t say anything about the new devices… Is it the same as the X1/970, better, worse?
Same-same.
I am a bit confused. Is the MicroLED version 100 Euros cheaper than the AMOLED and it has the LTE as well?
MicroLED should be 1,999EUR. Others are 1,199 and 1,299EUR. Where are you seeing otherwise?
It’s annoying that you cannot use your own LTE plan. I have one specifically for a mini phone I was carying with me when running and now I would have to cancel it…
Just to further clarify what Ray already said, the LTE for voice and text calling does not work anything like the Apple Watch or the others that use LTE. Whoever you are calling must have the Garmin Messenger app which requires them to sign up and download the app. Without that app they can not receive your calls or text messages. I don’t know about others, but most people I would be calling/texting do not have a Garmin product and will not want to go through the trouble of setting up the messenger app. Finally, one other point, unlike the Apple Watch, if you are knocked unconscious in any type of fall while biking, running, hiking, etc, this LTE feature will not call 911 or the Garmin Emergency response center. The only way they are notified is if you physically activate the SOS calling feature. Therefore, it is useless in the event you are really hurt and unable to do anything. To me, they have totally missed the key reason to have LTE and not worth upgrading.
Yep, similar situation. Not in the market for a new watch, not long having purchased a 970, but if I was it wouldn’t be this. I’d be wanting to use the watch esim included in my mobile contract, not forking out for another sub, on top of a 4 figure sum to purchase the device.
If I decide LTE is something I really need in the future then I’d have to look elsewhere than Garmin, unfortunately.
Ray stated they can receive texts without the app, it will just come from an apparent random number not associated with your name when they see it. This is the same way it works messaging through a separate inReach device. I don’t remember if it’s a consistent Garmin number they could tag. I feel like probably not. Incident detection works the way it does today through your watch. Apple may have improved things some, but when they first introduced the feature, 911 was getting inundated with false calls at places like ski resorts from normal activity triggering the feature.
Great intro/review, thanks! I have an Epix Gen 2 51mm for 2 years now and still love it. The main reason I have it, over he Apple, is battery life (other reasons too). I actually bought/tried the Ultra but even with the larger size, having to charge it every other day (or so) doesn’t cut it (so I returned it). And I saw no reason to upgrade to the Fenix 8 for what was mainly a speaker/mic, since I always have my phone on me anyway. And while I do appreciate the new Pro’s satellite connectivity for texting and emergencies, I’ll pass. Again, for now….while I do love the brightness and extra deep angle viewing of the MicroLED, again, the sacrifice of battery life will negate this option for me until it gets much better. Again, the Epix does the job more than well enough for now. I charge it every week or so and that’s with numerous tracking of activities each week. Note that I would love to help contribute $ to you, but money is really tight these days. I will sooner or later…but thanks for all of your reviews/efforts!
No 43mm, and the definitive death of MIPs… Pretty disappointing overall.
Anyone know if the LTE/inReach function behaves in the same way as Garmin Assist? I.e. fall detect?
I’m also disappointed at the microLED battery life. That’s dreadful, and completely contrary to expectations!
Is the processor still the same (NXP i.MX RT595)? Any extra RAM memory?
People have different use cases – I tend to carry my phone during all activities (running, road and mountain biking, hiking, etc.), so watch connectivity would be nice to have but not worth an additional monthly fee – at least not for me.
What I don’t like about the Fenix 8 Pro is the price hike, as I’m set on buying a Fenix 8 until the end of the year, and I was expecting that a new watch would lead to price reductions on the “old” generation. My Epix Gen 2 is actually fine, but as I had heart surgery earlier this year I like the idea of having the new HR sensor with EKG functionality.
I see a cheat here.
MicroLED data fields use bold charset so they seem brighter !!! (i.e. more white pixels)
Niche question, but can you text between this and a Bounce (and vice versa, obviously)?
Not so niche :) I didn’t see your question and I just asked the same question. I’m sure there are enough parents out there who are curious!
Interesting! As a bounce family I didn’t think of that! Direct over lte would be great. Same as using one messaging app for both end devices.
Not any method that I’m aware of, but I’ll ask. I agree, would certainly be handy.
The Bounce side is pretty heavily firewalled off, in terms of communicating to kids, with tons of precautions in place.
Asked myself the same question.
Already 2 Bounces in the house for about two years now (kids are 9 and 10 now).
Communicating between 8 Pro and Bounce would be essential.
I’m happy I didn’t buy the 970 right away, even though at this point I expect the pro version of the 970 in 2026 . Having to prepare the IM and 70.3, the doubt has always been between the latest fenix and the latest 900 series, but I confess that it seems to me that the differences are minimal.
Do you know if this Fenix 8 LTE can communicate with the Garmin Bounce directly?
Thanks
The Fenix 8 Pro is what the Fenix 8 should have been from the start to justify the price increase. I must say it’s far too expensive for me, but at least there’s no competition on the market for now, and those who need this level of security will definitely pay for it.
The price tag of the MicroLED version suggests that it is probably a trial run. Compared to the Amoled version, the battery life is worse, which is really strange.
I’m looking forward to the full review. Thank you, Ray.
I think too. The Fenix 8 should have hold and not release last year, it wasn’t ready at launch anyway as the most recent SW features were released few weeks ago.
I fully understand that the Fenix 8 introduced the speaker and different button technology. But Garmin should (in my opinion) release it only now.
Fenix 7 pro/Epix pro were released in May 2023. That is only 2 years ago!
I guess Garmin is leaning toward Apple way of releasing more frequents material with less differences between iterations. The fenix 7 pro/epix pro was a 1000 USD watch. I guess time will tell!?
Does this mean, we will only have Fenix watches with LTE now? Or will Garmin still offer a future Fenix 9 without LTE? Because I couldn’t care less about LTE – when I’m out training with my road bike, I have a Wahoo or Garmin bike computer to choose from and will have my smartphone with me in case I get stranded. I don’t wear my Epix Gen2 while on a bike. And when I’m out mountaineering and I’m without reception, my smartphone has satellite emergency SOS. I was waiting to replace my backup Fenix 3 with this year Fenix but not interested in LTE on my watch.
Wow, $200 price increase? Garmin-only LTE service? Really hard to see how they’re playing the long game well vs. Apple. I say this as someone who has been buying Garmin devices for over 25 years, bought a FR305 way back when, and has bought zero Apple Watches.
*typo*
‘Pro’ monitor
‘Pro‘ moniker
f8 43mm is already a bit too big for me and battery life is not perfect. Cannot imagine getting a 51mm watch with the same battery life … I was really hoping for 43mm MIP or at least microled with the same battery life as mip.
I’ve been a Garmin customer since 2012, one of their watches has been on my wrist 24/7 since then. I’ve got over tens of thousands of miles logged on my original Forerunner 220 and my Fenix 6 Pro across all my adventures and most of the events of my adult life. If you look close, there’s a Garmin in my college graduation photos, my wedding photos, at the birth of my child, at my job interviews, building my home… it’s almost a part of me.
Still, I’ve always said I can’t imagine a compelling reason to upgrade to a new watch after the Fenix 6 Pro splurge in 2018, unless they added emergency satellite connectivity. And here it is!
But these prices are just out of control. Garmin have completely lost touch with how much a watch can cost, they’ve tried to ratchet up consumer expected prices at breakneck pace and normalize a $2000 device but this is insane. And even at this price, the watch is heavy and thick and the battery life sucks and they took away MIP and they took away the 43mm size. I will not be buying this overpriced thing.
Maybe if Enduro 4 has satellite, MIP, sheds the display stack bulk, and costs $600? Maybe, we’ll see. Or more likely, after my Fenix 6 dies (which is likely to take a few more years), my next watch will be a Coros or Suunto model. They’ve got time to add satellite connectivity to their next models…
Until then, I’ll keep my trusty F6P on my wrist and carry my non-subscription (seriously, they expect $2000 PLUS a monthly fee?) ACR PLB1 with my essentials when I’m going into the backcountry.
Why LTE and not 5G? I guess they want to force one to buy the Fenix 9 pro or 10 pro when LTE is sunset in many places.
Where I live in Germany LTE does work outside populated are, texting via LTE not possible while 5G works perfectly in middle of nowhere. Without 5G I can not consider any connected watch.
There is a general hit to battery range vs the original fenix 8 of around 15-20%. Using the 51mm which is the best battery range: 29 vs 27 days in raise to wake and 15 vs 13 days of AOD watch. 49 vs 41 hours multiband tracking.
I presume this is directly related to (a) brighter display and (b) LTE background data signaling in order to be able to receive txt and calls. I seems like the display is the bigger hit.
It isn’t like this is catastrophic but it is going in the wrong direction. As Ray noted with the Forerunner 975 and Venu X1, if Garmin is going to have such bright displays they need to add options to more aggressively dim the display.
Then we have the uLED display which is 4.5x brighter that the fenix 8 and more than 2x brighter than the forerunner 975. Oh and 50% brighter than the Apple Watch (hmmmm).
I have used the fenix 8 in West Africa which has PLENTY of sun and there was never a problem reading the display and few if any scenarios where the fenix 7x MIP display was more readable. Having the brightest display seems to be some kind of point of competition between manufacturers all of a sudden and I’m not quite sure why. This is solving a kind of non-problem at great expense and while damaging the differentiation of Garmin which was range. It’s odd.
If that £1,729.99 microLED watch can have white backgrounds and stay with the display on it will have finally caught up with what a £150 MIP watch can do :P
You can also leave backlight on indefinitely on all you like with MIP. Sure, you pay in battery life but you can. Amoled is just the wrong tech on a watch, especially a sports watch. But is Garmin targeting the athletic type these days?
Garmin have moved this watch into the direct sights of the AW2. Blurring the performance differences, and widening the price gap.
Is the release on the 8th Sep to beat the launch of AW3 on the 9th?
It’s crazy that they’re going to:
1. Dramatically increase prices.
2. Start ending feature updates years earlier for flagship watches.
3. Attempt a monthly service revenue stream for subpar features.
At the same time, their software and QC is absolutely bonkers-level atrocious. I just a Garmin Express update remove all the activity profiles from the watch, and then waste time fixing it.
I’ve bought many Garmin devices over the years, including my Epix Pro, but this shift in the value proposition is just way too much for me. I’ll stick with my watch until it dies (which it may not for a long time) and then figure something else out.
My replacement FR955 is on the way. Recent FW borked it. Now, a $1200 Fenix? Once the 955 croaks and Garmin will not replace, I’m tapping out. Ridiculous, unsupportable pricing. I know that the new Fenix will be on sale at some point and I get Ray’s ‘there is nothing like this, so they can charge what they want’. But I also have decision making capacity. Unfortunately my wants are an intersection that is pretty rare…multi sport, onboard music, routable mapping. C’mon Suunto…use the expanded storage to add music and I’m in!
Thx
Great article. MIP lover here – my fenix 6 pro still holds a solid 15 days charge.
Is there somewhere we can check the coverage maps for the sat inreach things. I am based in Otago, South Island, New Zealand.
This Sat coms could be super clutch to have as you very quickly and easily fall out of LTE/Cell service anywhere you go.
The fine print on Garmin’s web site says that the satellite features do not work in Australia or New Zealand. Also, if you look at the cost of the cellular subscription plan, it’s three times the price of what OneNZ would charge to connect an Apple Watch. If that’s not enough to put you off, Garmin Pay has very limited availability in New Zealand compared with Apple Pay.
I live in New Zealand and intend to buy the next generation Apple Watch Ultra for the above reasons.
Can you compare the watch sizes on Bobbi’s arm too please. I am annoyed they stopped with the “s” versions. Loved my Fenix 3 but it was a beast compared to my 5s and 6s. Was holding out for an 8 s pro solar but I guess I won’t hold my breath anymore.
Can’t wait for the comparison Fenix 8 Pro vs the new Apple Watch Ultra 3
So, for Australia and NZ, there is no value in Satellite connectivity, and only LTE would be avail? I had high hopes to replace my inReach Mini, but seems would need to wait longer.
Same here. Was hoping to be able to ditch my inreach. No such luck in Australia
I was super excited reading basically everything in this review. The watch seems to have everything I need to leave the phone at home so even with the crazy pricing it seems worth it.
….. until I checked the Garmin In Reach pricing for Australia. The most basic enabled plan is $13.50/month (my apple watch costs $5/mth). I simply am unwilling to pay AU$2100 for a watch (a $450 premium over the Fenix 8), and then a further AU$162 per year just to make use of its only differentiating feature.
for the same money up front I could buy a Fenix 8 plus a an Apple Watch SE LTE, spend less money each year on the subscription side.
I get that Garmin is giving more functionality with their satellite messaging and such but the vast vast majority of cellular users aren’t looking for that. I wonder how much removing satellite functionality would save both in the upfront cost + ongoing subscription pricing?
Except no satellite in Australia so it’s killer feature isn’t available.
OMG. These watches are so expensive. I paid 380 bucks for my Epix Gen2 Ti/Sapphire brand new.
You can literally buy 4 Pixel Watches with LTE/Satellite for the price of one of these.
Thanks for the info. Since I don’t want the LTE/Satellite feature and MicroLED is either badly implemented or just not ready I pulled the trigger on an 8 AMOLED sapphire, upgrading from a MIP sapphire solar 7x.
Massive let down – not just this watch, but the general direction that Garmin is going in: strateospheric prices, subscriptions, and now an additional subscription for connectivity which seem better implemented (and cheaper) with their competitors
Personally I am looking forward to in depth reviews of the Google Pixel Watch 4. The battery life sucks vs the Garmins, but at less than half the price, with no fees for the Satellite SOS, and some other cool features, this could really be my next watch.
I’ve been a Garmin faithful since my Edge 305, but it’s looking like it’s time to pull the plug
I got really excited about LTE, but I understand you can’t pick your own connectivity provider? 10 euros a month feels really steep for LTE.
This is certainly marketing. For the calls, does the receiver need to have the Garmin app installed? It’s quite misleading to say this watch has LTE, especially in comparison with Samsung, Apple, or Google watches.gle watches.
Ruined by the price (and bulkiness).
It looks like this time around, the Pro models are really a new tier: they add cellular and satellite connectivity at a higher price point to an otherwise seemingly unchanged base. The Fenix 8 (and E) remain « current » on Garmin’s web site. And if you try to buy one, all Fenix 8 variants (Pro and non Pro) share the same web store page with just a selector for the different subversions, a bit like when you buy an iPad on Apple’s store.
I guess we’ll see if the Fenix 9 will keep non-cellular models.
Hi Ray,
I’m curious about “if the recipient doesn’t have Messenger app, they will still receive a message from a random Garmin number and if they reply to it, the reply will be delivered to the watch”.
While this is clearly an “opportunity” for all sorts of scammers, is the phone number truly random (i.e. could it be that a recipient in the EU would receive a message from a US Garmin number) or are the numbers at least region-locked (i.e. a recipient will receive a text from a random Garmin number in the same country as the recipient number – i.e. if I send a message to a Dutch number from the watch, would my recipient receive it from a Dutch number)? If it’s the former (location-agnostic Garmin numbers) I can imagine this turning into a very expensive message exchange – international texts aren’t cheap.
It’s on my to-do list to test a bit today and show how it works. Just gotta figure out my testing plan with spare numbers/etc…
(Getting spare Spanish eSim numbers is actually incredibly difficult)
Good morning Ray. Just a question about AOD for clarification:
we have a real AOD display or is it after some seconds dimming down, like the F8 does?. Still AOD, but dimming down? So we have a dimming down AOD? It doesn´t stay at full brightness the whole time? Thanks
Correct, still dims down.
Do you think it is otherwise the exact same hardware platform (Processor/SoC etc.) as the Fenix 8 and Enduro 3?
And if yes, do you think we can conclude that going forward we will still have feature parity with upcoming updates ? (of course if they are not relevant to the new hardware (LTE,Sat))
Thanks for this! On connectivity, bringing my phone is no longer an issue.
With the newer training shorts (with inner tights) and tights both with a phone pocket high on the side of the thigh, where the phone sits tight without bouncing, I no longer have a problem bringing my phone on runs/trail runs. It’s not noticeable. I would never get a pair of shorts or tights without this pocket.
Buying new shorts/tights seems a much cheaper alternative than a new fenix 8 pro. And you get to bring all your connectivity – and a camera.
I’m a long time Garmin user (borderline fanboy tbh)
Currently wearing the fenix 7X Pro Saphire Solar, I’ve had the fenix3 & 5 plus, forerunner 305 & 310xt, the swim and Edge 520 + 1040. I’ve done many marathons and probably a dozen full/half Ironman races with them.
The fenix 3 was a game changer for me, it was the first time there was a Garmin watch I was happy to wear all day and I didn’t have to worry about ensuring I remembered to bring my swim/forerunner, that they were charged, etc.
The fenix 5 plus was another big jump, it was great to be able to store music without my phone.
I almost bought the 8 as I wanted the AMOLED screen but I decided to wait as I couldn’t justify the price for an upgrade without LTE.
Yes, the fenix 8 PRO is expensive, I can get over that for a premium watch. I can’t get over the fact that it’s less capable compared to many watches half its price. I’m really disappointed with the approach Garmin has taken to LTE. I can’t (I suspect) stream Spotify, get WhatsApp notifications, etc. All the sort of things that are table-stakes for smart watches today. I can share my existing number with a watch for free today. Paying 10e p.m. for less functionality is something I can’t bring myself to do. I understand the satellite coverage is a USP, I don’t see it being a large part of the market though, maybe that should be the functionality that’s behind the subscription :shrug:
This feels like a regression in the product direction from Garmin, they are not trying to take any of the smartwatch market share and are moving back to being more of a niche fitness product. I’m going to start looking at WearOS/Apple watches for my next watch. I think they can probably do fine for most of my day to day training sessions. I’ll still use Garmin, I like the edge a lot. I’ll probably keep my fenix in a drawer (or a cheaper forerunner) for race day.
I suspect Garmin thinks there’s more profit to be made in the fenix 8 PRO model where (I assume) they will sell less but get more recurring revenue from the subscription and I’m sure the subscription has higher margins. It seems really short sighted though.
What’s going to happen when we see an apple/wearOS watch on the podium in Kona? It can’t be more than a few years away. It’s going to get to the state where I don’t even need to take the old Garmin out of the drawer on race day. Apple, Samsung, et al. are eating Garmin’s lunch and Garmin is just letting them.
We already had an Apple Watch Ultra in UTMB (2023?), and this year even an Amazfit (new model just released, some sponsored athlete already had one). UTMB is not Kona but it’s pretty much the main stage for Trail Running and outdoors sports, a segment all brands are trying to capture.
So these are all Sapphire, but not solar versions right? Which means if I wanted solar & sapphire the only option remains the non-pro version?
I assume we’re expecting similar UK pricing / release date for the pro
Oh if that US trip you mentioned has anything to do with a certain Apple event, any chance of prodding to find out what happened to satellite messaging outside of the US (given the cross over with this offering here). We were told to expect UK and Canada back in 2024 but it seems to have got lost like Apple Intelligence
Thanks Ray
Indeed, Apple.
That said, satellite messaging is offered in Canada, per this: link to support.apple.com
Looks like it happened last September. But I’ll check on other European bits.
“A smartwatch pricier than a MacBook? Now that’s intelligence—clearly, the watch isn’t the only ‘smart’ thing in that purchase.”
1. Hate the subscription model. But they gotta squeeze out more $$$$
2. You would think after all these upgrades their crap charging port would get better. It stinks IMHO.
3. Next you will need to hang the watch around your neck.
4. Then, speaking of $$$$, when you upgrade GARMIN kicks in 20$ or so…not too loyal to their customer if you ask me.
Don’t get me wrong, I have used and upgraded GARMINs about 5 times. Way better than others, but still some head scratching company policies and features that I think 99% of people just never use.
Massive let down, very disappointed – this prices are insane. The general direction that Garmin is going with prices, subscriptions and arogance with sensors whic are not working very well are pure greed and anti customer.
I’m getting off this greedy train. Year after year more greedy and less inovative and they dont listen to customers, they negate or ignore problems with software and hardware.
For me it is unclear is it possible to make watch to watch calls.
It the review it is mentioned: Unlike text messages, for calls, the other person needs to have the Messenger app on their phone
Here: link to garmin.com
It is written:
With an LTE connection and using the Messenger Calls app on your fēnix 8 Pro smartwatch, you can call any other fēnix 8 Pro device or anyone who has downloaded and set up the Garmin Messenger app on their compatible smartphone.
I have a question, what would be the battery life of the Fenix 8 Pro in Smart Watch mode with LTE activated so that I can receive messages even if I am not doing any activity?
I’m surprised you weren’t bothered by the limited functionality of the LTE connection – not functioning seamlessly like other watches with LTE, requiring people to use the Messenger app for more capability, etc. Maybe you had that pre-knowledge working with Garmin so it wasn’t a surprise. I realize it’s similar to how communication works with a separate inReach device, but I and, from comments, most people, expected it to be more of a phone replacement. While I see the upside of not getting every spam message your phone might receive, being able to communicate outside a tight circle would be useful in many cases
Ultimately for me when I’m out doing a workout sans-phone, about the only people I need to communicate with is really my wife, and probably Des. That’s it – everything else can kinda wait. If it’s kids school or whatever, they have both myself and my wife’s number, and we’d either have phones if together on a ride, or, woudl be going solo at different times to ensure overlap.
Maybe I just don’t have a big enough social circle. :)
I have to agree here. For me, emergency reachability would be for close family, not for random whatsapp messages. So I’m not bothered by the LTE implementation in the 8 pro.
You wear an Apple Watch for daily use, don’t you? That may satisfy the more general scenarios for you, where I was looking at a model like this to be my single solution for sport and day-to-day functionality
That’s what I thought when I bought a got my first LTE-enabled Apple Watch as well, but in reality for myself, I _never_ use it for general purpose calls.
For voice, it kinda sucks. There is no privacy (unless you’re wearing headphones when a call comes in), the speaker (even on my AWU2) is not fantastic, and it only gets worse if I have to e.g. look/type on a computer while taking a call. It’s a pretty bad experience overall imo.
Texting is a bit of a different story (particular for short responses) but I’d still rather use my phone for anything substantial.
The one area I thought that it would work WAY better would be for swimming at the pool. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work great at my pool where the LTE is spotty, and it drains itself incredibly fast in that scenario as it tries to reconnect over and over again.
In the end, I just end up using a phone (or waiting until I get back to it) anyways _unless_ it’s my SO, especially during activities.
Why do I keep LTE on my AWU2 then? For safety and communicating with my SO. If my phone is dead/lost/damaged, I have a backup when I’m hiking or cycling in the country… both places where I can also be on the edge of cell phone service, so the satellite SOS is SUPER appealing in those circumstances for me. Anything else can wait until I’m done.
After going through the entire article once more, and watching the YT video too, I think this is not entirely as bad as I thought initially. But still, I’d have to switch from MIPS to AMOLED.
And the other concern is the reduced battery life (F8 Pro Amoled vs F8 Amoled), although here it’s a bit strange.
Your Fenix 8 review said: 51mm AMOLED, smartwatch, 29/13 days.
Fenix 8 pro: 51mm AMOLED, smartwatch 27/15 days.
F8 activity all systems + multiband: 51h/39h
F8 pro, same: 53h/41h.
F8 all systems + multiband + music: 18h/17h
F8 Pro same: 23h/21h.
It looks like, actually, the F8 pro has a tiny bit bigger battery for the LTE, so that in non-LTE mode, it has slightly slightly longer battery? But then how come in GPS only or max batter GPS it is lower (145h vs 123h)? And in Expeditions GPS, it’s way way worse (F8: 145h, F8 Pro: 123h)?
Or am I just wishing this, and I actually read the numbers wrong?
My wrist-watch is 38 mm wide and looks fine. Needless to say, that this 51 mm brick is far to big.
I hope LTE-M will be soon in a Venu 4s. Then we can talk about a purchase.
I know you are very busy, but I think it would be interest to see how this compares in size to the Timex Ironman GPS Global Trainer from 15 years ago. I remember when it came out it was seen as extremely large.
Now with the largest Fenix, I can’t image its that much bigger.
Is it possible to send a voice message from the Fenix 8 Pro directly to your child`s Garmin Bounce? My kids have both their own Bounce and they love the possibilty to send messages to each other. Would be great as a parent to be able to send from F8 Pro to Bounce as well. What about F8 Pro to another F8 Pro?
So if I try to call someone who does not have the Garmin app, it does not connect? I have that right?
Somewhere somebody must have done a demo of this for us to verify. But my understanding from Ray’s initial take and another post is you can’t even attempt to call somebody that doesn’t have the Messenger app loaded. Like you can’t punch in a number. You are basically doing a VOIP call initiated between Messenger apps
Let me get this straight: you pay substantially more (ridiculously more for microled) for some new features, but the main point (that being LTE) is in fact sold separately in a form of a monthly subscription. It’s not even a simple, straightforward messaging and calling, they force you to install an additional app for that. And if you truly wish to extract the full potential of your high-end watch, you still have to pay another monthly subscription to get a Connect+?
What a complete joke. I’m staying with my FR965 for a long time, I guess.
Hi Ray. Does the current pricing of the Fenix 8 vs Fenix 8 Pro make sense to you? Taking the 47mm AMOLED as an example, the Fenix 8 is $1,600 CAD vs $1,680 CAD for the Fenix 8 Pro. Similarly, in the USA store the difference is $100 USD.
I’m not sure any pricing makes sense anymore.
If we (for pretend) assume the $999USD pricing of the Fenix 8 at launch ‘made sense’, then in a post-tarrif world (either implemented or companies trying to figure out how to plan pricing for 1-2 years worth of who knows), then I can vaguely see how they get to $1,099. I think $1,199 is an odd stretch to me. I know that yes, all models are titanium, etc… but I don’t think most people really care about that (relative to having $200 back in their pocket).
As for CAD pricing…that’s always a wild card.
More critically, though, I think the MicroLED pricing simply lost the plot. Or, the entire unit for that matter. Like, it’d have been one thing if it had incredible battery life, and they wanted to charge crazy-town for it. But in fact, it’s the opposite. And the at-angle glancing improvements just isn’t worth $800. And that says nothing about how overly bright it is at night.
Oh Garmin….
Great job finally coming out with an LTE enabled watch four years after the 945 LTE, which I still rock to this day. But, $1200!!! Wow. Hopefully, a forerunner version comes out in the next year or so and the pricing is more reasonable. But I might just keep rocking my 945 LTE. Any idea how to replace the battery ahhh asking for a friend…
I just can’t get past these prices. I love my Garmin devices because they do what they do REALLY well. But not 2 – 5 times the price of the competition well. The idea that you could buy a $2,000 watch and then, on top that, have a subscription to pay for (not talking about the LTE…that’s different and I get it) for Garmin Plus is INSANE.
My Samsung S24 Ultra has 5 years of major OS upgrades and was less than these watches. Garmin is awful when it comes to keeping flagships up to date for more than a year or two.
I didn’t read all the comments above. But, recently over on scubaboard.com there were discussions about satellite comms coming to dive watches. This is a massive step forward for not only endurance sports but scuba. A diving watch with LTE and satellite is an incredible potential life saver. I’m not surprised by the price increase as this effectively replaces an $500 running watch, $400 satellite communicator, $500 diving watch, and $1,000 iphone, in many situations. I’ll certainly be ditching my inreach and diving watch when I get one. When diving last week in the Keys I was carrying an EPIRB in a diving case. This will arguably replace that as well.
I am wondering: is it possible to make calls with a Bluetooth headset or are calls only possible via built-in speaker and mic?
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I was VERY excited for this watch – I thought I would be able to leave my phone at home and if I got in trouble on a long bike/run and needed a pickup, I could call out a set of friends/family to come get me. I had thought that the functionality would work like an Apple Watch, meaning, for the LTE service, I would add it to my data plan through my cell provider. But no, for this thing to work, everything has to go through the Garmin Messenger App? No one that I would reach out to uses that. I suppose they could get the app, but I would much rather have this be “Apple Watch” like where it has its own phone number. I know that isn’t the option now, but my question is, why not? And will it likely eventually work like I was hoping?
Hi Ray! I am suprised that the Micro-LED burn so much battery. But I supposed that the Micro-LED screen could be set to a much lower brightness, like a ordinary AMOLED-screen. So if you set the Micro-LED screen down to 1000 nits, how will the battery time then compare to the AMOLED version?
Hi Ray, great review!
– still only 1.4 inches at 51mm case size, that is too little!
– no microled version without LTE, I don’t want that phone stuff!
– the price – OH NO!
– bad battery lifetime!
Big disappointment!
The big question is, does the satellite SOS emergency call work without a subscription?
It’s quite understandable that Garmin charges extra for LTE and value-added services such as messages, etc. However, if an emergency call fails because you don’t have a subscription, Garmin has failed.
That sounds like a sleazy insurance salesman: “If your family isn’t worth it to you…”
inReach systems always needed a subscription. Ray’s review clearly say you need a subscription. What is not clear?
Hey Ray,
do you have any insights why garmin doesn‘t just use an e-sim like Apple, Google etc. ?
Is it just to sell their subscription or is there a good reason for it? Adding a Watch esim to my plan costs just 5€. People can reach me through my usual number, I can make phone calls and stream music with my Apple Watch.
If Apple manges 3-4 days of battery on the new Ultra for less money then it would seems to me that the new 8pros will be a hard sell. Especially the MicroLed since its barely brighter than the Ultra display.
Greetings Felix
MicroLED is clearly a niche product, but I don’t see how 3-4 days can compete, for a sports watch, with the 8 Pro at 15 days in AOD and 27 days in gesture?
The Ultra and 8 Pro AMOLED are still different products. Sportswatch with some connectivity vs Smartwatch with some sports. True, the Garmins are overpriced now. But they’re not in the same category, if the new Ultra only gets 3-4 days, IMHO.
Wait, it doesn’t work in Hawaii? So I might as well get an inReach and hook it up to my 955 for emergency, my wing broke, I’m drifting out to sea…
Really had my sights set on the next Garmin watch with LTE, but the price is just ridiculous. I mainly use my AW Ultra 1 as my main device (also have a Forerunner 165), but most definitely prefer the look of Garmin watches vs the AWU. But I guess I will just upgrade to the AWU3 since with a trade in of my AWU1 it will probably only cost me $500 (with trade in) vs $1200 for the Fenix 8 Pro. I know the big tradeoff is battery life, but still getting 2 days with my AWU1 and rumors suggest improved battery life with the AWU3.
Hopefully Garmin will eventually add LTE to the Forerunner or other less expensive options in their lineup.
Also, relative to the lack of a 43mm option for the Pro, since both Garmin and Google are apparently using SkyLo for their Satellite provider, how to Google manage to make the antenna work for their 41mm Pixel watch, and Garmin said it wasn’t technically feasible? Especially given that the Pixel watch is only 12.7mm thick.
Ray, can you expand on the inReach and LTE situation for people who already have an inReach device? You mention it will get better towards the end of the year, but today, can I use LTE on the watch and keep the inReach Sat on the other device? Or if I use LTE on the watch, for a few months my inReach device will be disconnected?
Thanks!
Today, you cannot. It literally boots your other device from your account entirely. You can’t even pay for a second device on your account if you want to.
Garmin knows that’s a (big) issue, and is aiming to fix here here by the end of the year. I suspect it’ll be sooner.
I did confirm last night with them that the plan is that once that’s in place, you’ll be able to have multiple devices on your account sharing the same plan (e.g. watch & dedicated inReach device). It’s unclear if there’s a limit beyond that (e.g., I’d assume you can’t have two watches or 3 inReach devices), but I think for most people, merely having watch + dedicated inreach device is the goal.
Thank you for the very fast reply!
If they will allow watch + inReach on the same plan, that will actually increase the value of the plan for me, so this is looking more and more appealing. I can also live with just watch for the autumn, no problem, so this is quite enticing at the moment.
Still have to convince myself that going F8 Solar → F8 Pro AMOLED won’t be too annoying, but I am tempted. Rewatching your original F8 review to see understand how to live with AMOLED. I hope that at 51mm, with 1-1.5 hours of GPS per day, I can still charge weekly (you mentioned 6 days with 47mm in your F8 review), which is doable.
Thanks again for the reply!
Ray, I think you’re going to have to do guides to watches in certain price brackets soon. As in, which GPS watch is best under £500/$500, £501/$501 to £750/$750, £751/$751 to £999/$999, over £1k/$1k etc, and update said guide after each new release. The higher these prices go, the more of us religious Fenix users will start to look and lower priced watches but as we’re used to high specs, we need to know what we’re getting into.
It would be amazing if your site has a compare feature like many mobile/cell phone providers do, so you can differentiate between different models easily in list/bullet point mode to see what feature they do and don’t have.
> It would be amazing if your site has a compare feature
It does
link to dcrainmaker.com
I’m rocking a 6X Pro, the battery is still in good shape, but I’ve been considering upgrading to the Enduro 3, while also waiting to see what the Fenix 8 Pro line will offer.
It’s not so much that I’m “against” Amoled, but I absolutely need to have proper (read: MIP-like) AOD during an activity. Meaning that the screen literally is always on, at the pre-set brightness throughout the recorded activity.
There are more than one activity, where the watch is not worn on my wrist, but attached to the handlebar or just set on a nearby table. It’s definitely a deal-breaker then, if the screen suddenly gets dim or even completely blacks out during such an activity.
That said, in non-activity use, I could live with the current Amoled screen behavior. My aging eyes would definitely appreciate the resolution and clarity of Amoled.
> It’s not so much that I’m “against” Amoled, but I absolutely need to have proper (read: MIP-like) AOD during an activity. Meaning that the screen literally is always on, at the pre-set brightness throughout the recorded activity.
Ray mentioned in a past Polar AMOLED watch review that Polar keeps the screen “always bright” during activities by continuously flipping between high brightness and super high brightness, at the cost of battery life. They did this to support the use case of mounting the watch on bike handlebars, where a wrist turn gesture would be impossible and pressing a button would be inconvenient.
I wish Garmin would implement this as an option.
> It’s definitely a deal-breaker then, if the screen suddenly gets dim or even completely blacks out during such an activity.
I think what’s rarely mentioned in this discourse is that a lot of Garmin users (like runners) barely look at their watches anyway. Even (or especially) faster runners will just run by feel and/or keep up with their pace group during interval workouts.
Who cares if your watch is glanceable when you never glance at your watch anyway?
The people who actually want to look at their watch are actually the weird ones.
It’s not a criticism, just an observation. I don’t think anyone needs a running watch in the first place, let alone an instantly glanceable running watch. But since we’re all throwing away our money anyway, why not buy the tech that does things the way we want?
Theres truth in this I think. Ironically the more experienced I get at running the less I rely on my watch. But still, when I look at it I don’t want to deal with dimming, brightness self adjusting or wrist gestures. I vastly prefer MIP when not running for same reasons plus spectacular battery life.
Amoled is great tech in some places. Outdoors watch is just not one of those.
I am curious as to how Amoled and microLED compare when viewed underwater? I surf and freedive and know that Fenix has been considered difficult to see when used in watersports.
Microled is already discounted by £173 on Garmin uk website 2 days after launch. Says it all really.
Hmm, looking at the Garmin UK website I’m not seeing any discount (same for anywhere else). Any chance you have a corporate discount program loaded?
(Note: I’d argue it needs a heck of a lot more discount to move units that that…)
With a battery life 3-4 times worse, it probably needs to be at most $200/EUR 200 higher than AMOLED…
Sincere apologies Ray,you’re right, cookies seemed to have logged me in via a previous discount site.
🙄
And yeah agree needs to be same price as the pro.
Cheers
What was Garmin thinking with that pricing on the microLED version?
That model is not only DOA, but when you introduce a tech, with almost no improvement over the competing tech AND charge 60% more for it, you’re likely to blackball the name of that tech for the foreseeable future.
I know that GPS accuracy is always compared favorably, but can the Fenix 8 Pro finally calculate distance and pace correctly? This concerns sections of the route where GPS reception is weaker (e.g., under trees). In my experience, the entire Fenix series always calculates the distance to be between 5-8% too short in these areas. It’s a sad reflection on Garmin that this is purely a software issue and that the algorithm they use for weak signal phases should simply be disabled, but Garmin doesn’t do this and isn’t making any improvements in this area. Or is the situation finally looking better with the 8 Pro?
I found LED to much brightness for my eyes….
I woud prefer… e-ink, but the next best thing is Black & White & Grey MIP
Hi Ray – Thank you for a great review on the new Fenix 8 Pro options. I called Garmin support regarding AMOLED display brightness on the new Fenix 8 Pro AMOLED 47mm, and told it is the same exact display as the Fenix 8 AMOLED. In your review, you mentioned a brighter display on the Fenix 8 Pro AMOLED. Do you have anymore details on the display? – Thank you!
hi, is possible to use for travel in India?, last trip my inreach mini was confiscate from airport police!!!
Appropos the discussion on MIP and AMOLED – Honestly, for me the battery life of AOD AMOLED is painfully low. After my fenix 3 HR, I had tried a Venu 2 just for AMOLED, but in less than a year I switched back to a MIP fenix 7.
However, where is the fenix E refresh?
You can’t compare, at all, a Fenix and a Venu in battery life, MIP or AMOLED.
Per Garmin’s specs, a Venu 2 in AOD mode has _2 days_ batter life. The Venus are simply not made for AOD.
A Fenix 8 Pro 51mm has, in AOD mode, 15 days. That’s 7x more, and it’s a different category. It’s very true that a Fenix 8 Solar MIP has 30 days, but 15 to 30 is way closer than 2 to 15…
Could someone please help me with this, as I can’t seem to find any conclusive answer.
On a Fenix 8 (Pro) Amoled, how does the AOD display behave (autodimming etc.) during an activity in the following use scenario:
– The watch is not worn on the wrist
– The watch doesn’t detect any kind of movement
– The activity is configured to use AOD mode
– The activity has auto-scroll enabled (to scroll between two identical data screens in this scenario)
My question is basically, would the above hack work for emulating a MIPS-like “true AOD”? (I’m aware of the increased battery drain and burn-in risk, but let’s leave that out for now for simplicity’s sake.)
The worst part of this review is I noticed the Garmin logo is upside down on the top right button on some watches (see thickness comparison photo). I checked my watch and my button is upside down! Damnit!
The buttons rotate pretty much freely on the fenix 8. For that matter, also on the fenix 7. The triangle can have any orientation.
Did you test indoor pace/distance “from the wrist” without GPS (indoor, treadmill)?
I have a Fenix 6 pro and the results when running intervals on the treadmill are all over the place. I use to run intervals at 15 km/h with
recovery at 8 km/h and the watch shows almost the same pace even though the difference is massive in reality.
I wonder if that has improved with more modern watches – especially since old fashioned foot pods have become hard to come by.
It doesn’t work particularly well with the fenix 8. Even with the HRM pro it’s not amazing at treadmill pace and distance.
… and that’s the reason I use Stryd on top of the Garmin.
Sadly it doesn’t make me faster, just confirms I’m slow…
I am right there with your wife’s reaction. So, as a female runner who wants LTE for safety, I wonder: why doesn’t your wife use an Apple watch? (I’m torn about switching and don’t really want to wear two watches–so I’d like to hear her opinion.)
Disappointment
Should Whatsapp be able to work instead of needing Garmin Messenger? I know its not available currently with its way more popular then Garmin Messenger and provides both text and calls. Could this be a future update that works on this watch?
So I HAVE to pay for BOTH an LTE connection AND Inreach???? Plus, I already have an Inreach mini 2 which I need seeing as the 8PRO doesn’t work in Northern Canada, Yukon, NWT, Alaska etc and I can’t have both the 8PRO and mini 2 active at the same time.
I really wanted to get this but with the cost of TWO Inreach subscriptions plus an LTE subscription it just doesn’t make sense.
The LTE is included in the Inreach subscription; it’s a standalone device not tied to your carrier (or phone number).
The bigger problem is the only one Inreach subscription per account at the moment. As Ray says in another comment, they’re addressing this later this year… and it sounds like you might only need one subscription shared between the watch and Inreach device.
“You literally have to twist your wrist already to see any watch on your handlebars. ”
Well you literally don’t, there are certain positions where I can read my MIP watch without doing anything, on a drop bar handle bar.
He’s talking about AMOLED watches.
Hi Ray, will you review the T-Rex Pro that just came out?
Review is already up on YouTube, just need to finish dragging photos into my written review as well, that’s already written. Probably later in a few hours.
YouTube: link to youtube.com
*Few might be 2-3 hours, 4-6 hours, or 12 hours.
Thanks Ray, we appreciate your efforts during these crazy release weeks.
Can you please also include the Fenix 8 Solar (MIP screen) in any comparisons you do? The only reason I default to MIP is because of the fact that it’s truly always on and has great off axis viewing by nature of the display technology. Also AMOLED technology is strange to me with respect to refresh rates and perceived brightness.
Hi Amr-
What kind of comparisons are you looking for? I’ve done a ton of the existing Fenix 8 battery/etc comparisons in my previous review. Or is there something else?
Cheers!
Hi Ray. First big thanks for replying to me and everyone else here. There’s a reason you’re loved and respected.
First, for me, most AMOLED screens basically oscillate from an on state to off state at a frequency to give the perception of brightness. You can test this by recording a video in slow motion to catch the rolling lines as the screen refreshes. Typically this gets worse as AMOLED screens get brighter because the gap from its brightest point to off is bigger if you want to keep it at say 50% brightness.
I’m looking for a comparison of off-axis glanceability while running, strength training, and other sports as well as while sitting in an office setting (say slyly looking at a notification during a meeting, for example). It would be nice to see you do this with MIP vs the new AMOLED and also the micro LED.
Thanks in advance!
In Germany you used to be able to call 112 (the 911 equivalent) without a SIM just like in the US.
But this was disabled in 2019.
Far too many people called 112 to try phones on flea markets etc. blocking capacity in emergency response centers.
That’s a pass for me. Too little extra (I’m a Epix Pro user) for far too much. I have been holding out for a next-gen Epix/Fenix. To me, this seems like a gen 1 product. Making Apple Ultra seem more attractive.
Just ordered the F8 Pro 47 mm version. Looking forward to have it at the end of the week. Precisely the watch I was waiting for from Garmin. Sure there will probably be a “smaller” FR-version within a year. But without satellite capability. It probably won’t be cheap either.
you may be the first post I saw of someone that’s actually buying. iam on the fence for the pro (none microled) but a little hung up with the extra thickness.
I got the 51nm earlier today. I was a bit anxious about the size, but it doesn’t feel any thicker or different than the 8 51mm solar.
The AMOLED changes from my MIP do take a bit of adjustment. And LTE didn’t want to connect today.
Oh, and has to apply five updates. Clearly a bit rushed before Apple’s event tomorrow.