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Hands-On: Tacx’s NEO 2T Smart Trainer With Increased Power

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At Eurobike this year Tacx has announced their latest update to the Tacx Neo Series, with the new 2T trainer. For those not familiar with the Tacx lineup, the Neo series is their top of the line trainer. It’s virtually silent, has an electromagnetic flywheel that allows it to replicate road surfaces (like cobblestones), and is arguably the most powerful trainer out there.

The new NEO 2T essentially takes the Tacx NEO 2 trainer that was announced last fall and gives it more power. It does this through a combination of stronger magnets and tweaks to the magnet topology. The reasons you care about this is that it eliminates the ‘slip’ feeling that the Neo exhibited in the past when hard-sprinting at extremely low speeds. It also means faster ERG mode responsiveness. Way, way, way faster. And now native thru-axle support.

Meanwhile, on the software side, they’re close to releasing a firmware update (which isn’t ready yet) that will bring Cycling Dynamics to not just the NEO 2T, but also the existing NEO 2 trainer. That helps to close the loop a bit on Tacx’s promise last fall to ‘bring undefined new features’ to the Tacx Neo 2 down the road.

Now, I’ve been testing this trainer for a number of weeks. But part of the reason you don’t see a full in-depth review yet is that the firmware simply isn’t final yet (pre-production) – though the hardware is final. I’ll get more into the specifics down later in the post, but ultimately, I’m calling this a ‘hands-on’ look at things, with a full in-depth review to follow once some issues are worked out. In fact, even in the last 5 hours since the official announcement there’s been some tweaks to the firmware.

But again – we’re getting ahead of ourselves. Let’s talk trainer geekery first!

What’s different:

The vast majority of the changes to the Tacx NEO 2T are internal, not external. In fact, the only external change you’ll notice is a new ‘racing stripe’ inset on the back panel of the folding NEO wing. Here you can see it next to the Tacx NEO 1 and Tacx NEO 2:

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But like they teach you in grade school, it’s what’s inside that matters most. And in this case what matters most is magnets. The company has made a pile of changes internally around the magnets. It’s magnet mania. Here’s what’s different inside at a geeky level:

– Stronger Magnets: This gives it the higher torque that eliminates the slip
– Thicker Wiring: This reduces the heat output and improves efficiency
– Changing Wiring Topology: This reduces vibrations but also reduces the sensitivity of manufacturing tolerances
– Skewing of Magnets: This reduces vibrations and sounds
– New Magnet Holder: This helps in manufacturing by increasing position accuracy, but also reduces vibrations

Like I said, it’s magnet mania.

What does that all mean in real-life? Well, we’ll get to that in the First Rides section. But first, let’s look at a graph, since again, geeky. This shows you the braking power of the Tacx NEO 2T versus the NEO2, against your speed. This shows why you could cause ‘slip’ at low speeds on the NEO2 at lower speeds, as it’s more than tripled in those lower scenarios.

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But beyond all this magnet mania, there’s a few practical considerations. First, it’s quieter. At least in theory, frankly – I can’t tell the difference in my studio. Maybe if I move the whole setup to the podcast recording room with the soundproofing now installed on the walls I’ll be able to hear it.

The other change coming, but not yet in any firmware, is Cycling Dynamics. That’ll give us access to the typical Cycling Dynamics suite of data, though I haven’t tried it yet to see if all the metrics are carried through, or how it stacks up against Garmin Vector 3. After all, those two should match in my mind. So I’m keen to see how that looks. And for that matter, how it might stack up against Favero Assioma and their recent Cycling Dynamics update as well.

Fun testing times ahead for sure!

First NEO 2T Rides:

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When I say ‘first rides’, I mean like, first, second, third, fourth, ninth, tenth, and so on. But before we get there, let’s start with some quick NEO basics – it’s the same here regardless of which model you’re on. The NEO 2T folds out just like the rest of them. Aside from the aforementioned racing strip, you’d never notice the difference between them.

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Once unfolded you can either plug it in or not. Plugging it in ensures downhill drive (meaning, it’ll spin the flywheel when you go down a hill in apps like Zwift), and also makes it easier to pair with apps since you don’t have to pedal for it to wake up.

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You’ll also need to install a cassette on it. Despite being the most expensive consumer smart trainer on the market, it doesn’t come with one:

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Once that’s all done, toss your bike on it, and you’re good to go. The unit supports both quick-release and thru-axle bikes (natively now!), and includes adapters in-box for both as well:

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Next, you’ll pair it up to your favorite app of choice. In my case, I used both TrainerRoad & Zwift as my main testing platforms. Both will see it enumerate via either ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart, depending on which type of device you’re using.

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With that, you’re ready to pedal and get cookin:

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The first thing past Tacx NEO users will notice is that the slip is gone. If you aren’t familiar with the slip, essentially it meant that if you were going a very slow speed (such as when climbing a really steep hill), and then threw down a sprint effort, it’d feel like the trainer ‘slipped’ for a second. It didn’t last very long, again, about a second or so. And for most people, you might never encounter it. But it was one of those unique Tacx Neo things. Either way, it’s gone now.

That’s largely due to the pile of extra magnets in there, and that also manifests itself in other ways – most notably ERG mode. For example, in TrainerRoad, the shifts in wattage on my 30×30 workouts were astoundingly quick. My usual test workout is ~150w up to ~400w, in 30-second sets back and forth. I do this on all trainer tests. It’s a great way to test responsiveness.

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(Note: It was overshooting the ERG set point in Sunday’s firmware, that’s supposed to be fixed in today’s firmware.)

And indeed, the Tacx NEO 2T is incredibly responsive. In fact, one might make the argument that it’s actually too responsive, potentially too fast. Most trainers will take between 2-4 seconds to complete that 150w to 400w transaction, or a normal time for your body to adjust. But the NEO 2T delivers that in about 1-1.5 seconds.  Now, I say ‘might’ make the argument, because the firmware isn’t quite final yet and there’s still some tweaks to come and test there. So I’ll hold my final judgment.

Speaking of which, let’s talk about why this isn’t a full review. After all, that was definitely the plan: Hardware was final, and software was looking final too (save the Cycling Dynamics bit, which might have been a later update anyway). Unfortunately, I just couldn’t get power values to match with trusted power meters in my arsenal. I tried a Quarq DZero, Garmin Vector 3, Favero Assioma, and 4iiii Precision Pro. And while the values on the latest firmware were close – they weren’t good enough.

I was consistently getting the Tacx NEO 2T underreporting power by about 4-6% – which is way too much, even despite the drive chain loses. I went through a few more new 2T’s, and in turn they made some tweaks to firmware and calibration machines, and the process repeated itself a few times. But ultimately, even with new tests this morning – I couldn’t get accuracy where I want it.

And more importantly – I just wasn’t on final consumer firmware anymore, which is generally my bar for an in-depth review.

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Now, it’s very likely they’re gonna sort this out pretty quick. Even just in the last 5 hours since the NEO 2T’s announcement they think they may have cracked the nut on what’s going on. They had engineers spending all day, and frankly, all this past weekend on it. I even met them Saturday afternoon at the factory on my way to Eurobike so they could diagnose not just the trainer, but my bike too, to try and figure it out and if it was something unique to me.

At this point (10PM our time), they think they know what might be going on, and are working on a firmware update to address it. If they can do that, and if I can get some more rides in with various software and it checks out, then I’ll happily release my in-depth review accordingly. It doesn’t sound like they’re shipping products until they sort this out. Which again, could be tomorrow.

I don’t want this to sound negative by the way – I think it’s hugely positive that a company is willing to listen and iterate to the feedback, working quickly to sort out what’s wrong. The best companies do that, and they don’t just pretend it doesn’t exist.

Wrap-Up:

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Assuming Tacx can work out the minor firmware issues – I suspect the NEO 2T will easily firmly implant itself in the usual Neo series location at the top of the trainer pyramid. The stronger magnets have resolved the virtual slip aspects, and atop that, you’ve got Cycling Dynamics coming. This will be the first trainer to support the standard (remember it became a standard a while back). Right now it does though already show power balance between left and right legs, though again, I’ll withhold judgment on that until I get the final firmware.

As far as pricing and availability, it’s essentially the same as the NEO 2, so that’s €1,299/$1,399/£1,199, with availability being pretty close to immediate – they’ve already been building and stockpiling units over the last month. Again, pending the final firmware update piece – which can be done after the fact anyway.

I’m looking forward to getting that and putting it through its paces. As many readers know, most of the time when I’m not testing something I’m using the Tacx NEO 2 as my main trainer. So getting rid of the minor slip issue will be great. Hang tight for that review soon, oh, and thanks for reading!

You can now pre-order the Tacx NEO 2T from Clever Training, which helps support the site. Shipping should be very shortly, and if you use the CT/DCR VIP Program, you can get 10% back in points. Plus of course, free US shipping.

(P.S. – Preemptive before you ask about the Tacx Neo Bike: It’s very plausible they’ll announce shipping has commenced before the end of the week. It’s also plausible they won’t. They’ve already moved containers of units to Garmin’s distribution center in the US (Olathe), as well as have a warehouse ready to send out trucks in Europe to distributors/retailers with units already built. They continue to wait on one last certification before shipping. With the Garmin acquisition, Tacx is subject to a far greater number of certifications globally  – 10 in total – prior to shipping that previously required, including some unanticipated country-specific ones related to the classification of the product from a trainer to a ‘spinning bike’. Apparently one final one is holding up the lot.)

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332 Comments

  1. Ihsan

    I was really hoping for their “climb” version. Well, there’s still time till Eurobike.

  2. David E.

    Anything here (or in other Tacx products) reflecting that Tacx is now part of Garmin? I was sort of hoping that we might see some sort of novel integration. Not even sure what that would look like–I’m not a product designer–but you’d think there might be something Garmin could leverage to make Tacx trainers stand out from the crowd. As you’ve discussed previously, we’re approaching the flat of the curve on improvements in power accuracy and noise. . .

  3. Matt

    Amazed that there’s never a mention of bike compatibility. I recently purchased Neo 2 to use for fitness with Trek FX2. Unfortunately crank arm or chain stay length is too long to trigger cadence sensor. Supposedly there’s an extension kit available but never does Tacx mention this anywhere

    • Generally Tacx is pretty good about exact part lists. Have you tried contacting Tacx support and asking for the exact part number?

    • Matt

      I filed ticked with Tacx weeks ago. They are very responsive but couldn’t identify the cause. Lucked on to tacxfaqx.com and Drew Epstein suggested that it might be crank arm chain stay length. I’m just suggesting that Tacx or u point out in requirements and equipment reviews that this is an issue. Saves a user from either buying the equipment or a lot of wasted troubleshooting effort. Your reviews are always spot on

    • Yeah, to be honest, bike compatibility issues are super rare on the Tacx NEO 2 at this point (and most other trainers that have shifted to support longer derailleur cages).

      Tacx does actually have a cutout you can print somewhere on their website for you to double-check compatibility with your frame. Though again, since the switch from NEO1 to NEO2, I haven’t seen any discussion in the comments about people running into issues. In fact, I think you’re the first person.

      The challenge with frame compatibility in general is there are tens of thousands of bikes out there, and even simple component changes can make or break something.

    • Matt

      I suspect most don’t pair a Trek FX2 with this trainer as it’s a fitness bike vs serious road bike. I’ve scoured Tacx website and have never seen the cutout you mentioned. There are more than one of us with the cadence trigger issue, mostly soft vs. Hardware but, we’re out here. If this saves one person the aggravation then it was worth mentioning. Btw, Tacx is making no commitments re extender at this point

    • Ross F

      Hi Ray.
      Thanks for the article. I’m looking forward to the final report.

      The cadence sensor doesn’t work on either of my bikes when fitted to the Neo 2. Scott Spark RC 29er and my Merida hardtail with 27.5 wheels, both with 175mm cranks fitted. Tacx support is aware of the issue and suggested an adapter was on the way. A bent teaspoon tucked into a crank boot works a treat while we wait!

      The problem can be caused by shorter cranks or a longer chain stay. It’s very real on many bike frames out there, but I think most people don’t care much. It’s easy to add an extension or use another cadence sensor.
      I’m sure the sentiment will change rapidly when the cycling dynamics you mention start to become useful.

      Have fun at Eurobike!
      Ross.

    • nunya

      Hmm, this could be a problem for those that want to use the Apple TV with out the companion app or an additional sensor. Tacx supports Boost 148, which is common on mountain bikes, and those have really long chainstays. So, the use of a Trek FX2 with only a 445mm chainstay is really not that long. Touring bikes can have 460mm chainstays (Surly Long Haul Trucker), and mountain bikes can get even longer. I think the random frame I bought for a trainer bike, off craigslist is around 460mm.

      I’ve not heard of this problem before, and it’s a good thing I stumbled across it, when considering a Neo 2T.

      Where on the trainer is the capacitive cadence sensor located?

    • Ross F

      It’s a little bit annoying that I didn’t know about it before purchasing my Neo2. The fix is simple enough in my case and works perfectly. See attached image.
      The cadence sensor is in front of the LEDs that your left foot passes. Behind my teaspoon!

    • This is officially the most hilarious thing I’ve seen today.

    • Matt

      I went with a chopstick with aluminum foil to class it up. Still no word from Tacx on a fix or the adaptor they promised

  4. Sören Bosse

    Is there any mention of FTMS support? The latest XERT app on iOS only works with it.

    Or have Tacx just silently dropped the issue?

  5. Tyler

    It looks like ordering thru Garmin is delayed 5-8 weeks.
    Is that a purposeful choice because of some other retailer agreements?
    I get a small Garmin discount, so looking for when I may be able to apply it.

    • Garmin always does that to support their retailers first.

      (Fwiw, while you don’t get a discount using the DCR/CT link, you do at least get VIP points back, which is a crapton of points – $130 worth to be exact). 🙂

    • Tyler

      If you have any insights, I’m curious why Garmin does that with some products, and not others.
      For example the Fenix 6 seems to be fully available on the Garmin site from day one.

  6. David W

    Hi Ray,

    How do the electronics of the Tacx Bike compare to the 2T? Does it have the slip issue? It would be a shame to finally get a Tacx Bike and find out that it was a generation behind in capability.

  7. Louis Matherne

    Any chance this will support Wahoo Climb?

    • It could, but Wahoo has backtracked on their previous public promise to support 3rd party companies who wanted to add CLIMB compatibility.

    • Frank-enstein

      I also was wondering this. They’ve formally backtracked? Pshhh.

      In that case, it’s nice to see Garmin not match the pettiness, and for example prevent Wahoo from integrating its radar standard.

    • Gryphon

      Ray, just curious whether the source for this information was publicly released information or just your privileged back-and-forth with Wahoo? And, is this the final word, or is there still hope of opening up the compatibility? Lastly, there seems to be sufficient interest in pairing a Climb with other trainers, so any professional influence you have with them would be welcome! Thank you.

    • Conversations with both sides about it.

      Yet, both Elite and Tacx have designed their latest trainers to be physically capable, should Wahoo change back their mind on it.

      I’ve made my point a few times to them (Wahoo).

    • Ihsan

      So does this potentially mean, if one is so inclined, they can purchase the climb and just manually adjust the slope on the climb remote even though there’s no native control/support from Elite & Tacx line of trainers (since they’re physically capable of supporting climb)?

    • Correct. That’s pretty much always been that way for the most part though.

    • Ihsan

      Oh ok. Didn’t know that.

      I thought the rear axle connections had to be updated if you didn’t want instantaneous carbon explosions from Wahoo’s “even some of our own models are NOT compatible.” statements.

    • Thomas

      I could have sworn that on Neo2 the bike is fixed. I just checked and I can move up and down (with the thru-axle adaptor). But are you certain about that Ray?

    • As always, use at your own risk.

      But you can pretty easily look at it and see if there’s any resistance or not, and if the axle adapter moves with the bike, or if it’s grinding against it. In the case of Wahoo’s past trainers, some of them weren’t even compatibility issues (such as the original SNAP), just marketing reasons as they once admitted.

    • Thomas

      That’s exactly my thought; the axle adaptor. Going from classic QR adaptor to say thru-axle one will notice that the bits are tight fixed to the tacx. No parts can move like they can on the Kickr18 (which I eventually swapped to a Tacx due to issues). I would not dare to use a climb module on the Neo 2…

    • Ross F

      I agree with you Thomas.

      In my case, I use MTB’s on the Neo 2. Even with the suspension locked out you get some movement up and down.

      Over a short period of time the drop outs started creaking loudly. Upon inspection it’s easy to see some (minimal)wear on the bike frame.
      A tiny bit of grease stopped the noise for now. I’ll probably contact support for some washers?

      Tacx really need to come up with something if we’re going to have the bike moving up and down to simulate climbing.

  8. Mike

    I saw GPLama reporting the same power reading issues, I want to upgrade from my Neo 1, think I will wait until the firmware is sorted and the power readings are good.

  9. Michael

    So while you sort of covered the question about frame compatibility, after reading an overview on another site, I am unckear on the issue of thru-axles. So if you have a disc brake frame with 12×142 thru-axle, does that mean the bike can be attached to the Neo 2T with the bikes thru-axle or is Tacx still insisting on users insert adapters into the frames thru-axle holes which some have reported has caused issues with damaging the threaded side?

    • Damon

      I have the same question. I have the Neo2, and not a huge fan of the thru-axle solution (although Tacx support is AWESOME with doing whatever it takes to make your bike work – I just received a custom cone adapter for my Neo2 because there was wobble on my new 2020 Specialized Roubaix – the cone adapter was too long so they sent me one 3-4mm shorter). I’d love to see a pic or get a definitive answer on this one. If you can indeed use a standard 12×142 thru-axle, that would be great news. No need to mess with additional adapters, and I don’t like the piece that screws in to the drive side on the current adapter.

    • With the bikes thru-axle, like most other trainers now days.

  10. Dave

    Thanks for this Ray – the Neo Bike is something I’m very, very interested in seeing. I’m never buying another trainer that I have to remove a wheel for…I just can’t be bothered (and my Specialized pain-in-the-ass weird chain stay Diverge makes it a hassle anyway).

  11. Stuart Brown

    Is it just me or is there a really obvious way to tell the NEO 2T and NEO 2 (and NEO 1) apart:

    The screws on the case on the NEO 2T seem to be black, silver on the other two models.

    • Robert

      NEO1 is all black. NEO 2 has the blue highlights in the base. NEO 2T has the gloss black wide/narrow stripes on the upper rear portion of the base, just under the rear hinge.

  12. Benjamin Pettett

    Would the Cycling Dynamics data come though to GC/Strava when riding on Zwift or do you need to record directly onto a head unit? I ride indoors just on Zwift and just happy to have the ride sync through to Garmin/Strava from the app. Cheers.

  13. DLinLV

    Surprised they do not have a larger alpha and beta test group. No offense Ray but you shouldnt be this involved in their testing power output. This should already be known this close to ship date.

    I love my origin Neo but may sell and buy this once they work out the bugs.

    • dizpark

      I thought about that too . And not just Tacx, many other companies do this too – it seems like they never really test new models, but send them to reviewers and start finetuning from there. Or is this actually the the new ‘de facto’ testing model in this industry?

  14. Thanks for the post. Any improvement to the difference in inertia between ERG and non-ERG modes that is created by the virtual flywheel? The Neo 1 had less in ERG (to me noticeably and making pedaling harder) but it sounds as if the new hardware might improve this?

  15. Andrew

    Does this mean the Neo 2 will be discounted in price?

    • I suspect at some point, like last fall, we’ll probably see them clearance out some older units.

    • Andrew

      Thanks, I’ve been following the “don’t buy a trainer in the summer commandment” written in DCR stone, and saving money for that matter. But now I am torn which Neo 2 to go with… Thanks for all the great content!

  16. tadaka

    Any chance they’re going to have xd-r drive bodies available in the US? I’ve searched around and haven’t found anywhere to buy them. Garmin interestingly doesn’t even have it listed on their site.

    • Tim

      Try asking your local bike shop to order it in? I needed a different (obscure) part from tacx that I couldn’t find anywhere online, but just asking my local bike shop to order it in was easy.

    • Damon

      You can order it directly from the Tacx.com website. I did, and switching to the new xdr free hub to support sram AXS 12 speed was a piece of cake. I’m in the US in North Carolina. They shipped to me, and it didn’t take too long.

    • Bjørn

      Hi, can you tell me how you’ve managed to put the cassette on the XDR body? The flywheel spins if i try to tighten te cassette…

  17. Gary

    Any chance we’ll ever see the Tacx Magnum?

    • It’s already shipping and available. But I don’t plan to review it. Not sure how big the market is for $10K units here.

    • Yes but not in the USA.
      Too difficult to provide the white glove service?

    • No, concerns around US folks falling off and suing because they can’t ride their bike.

      A uniquely American problem. 😉

    • Ihsan

      Surely, you must be joking Mr Maker.

    • Presented as a joke…but the reason is actually the real reason last I checked/asked.

    • Ihsan

      Wow! I know it is beyond many can justify the expenditure, but I would have thought the US market to have been one of their targets…

      Perhaps the whole Garmin acquisition may change it.

      On a more related note, I’m contemplating whether I should buy the 2T, or if I should just keep the dumb wheel-on trainer + Favero Assioma combo. Certainly, the most economical solution is to keep things as they are, but we all know how it goes.

      Even now, during north hemisphere warm season, I’m limited to only two outdoors rides per week, and it definitely won’t get better in the winter. I wonder if controlled resistance would make enough difference on my training to justify the cost. No matter what, I’ll wait for the CT fall sale, I know that 🙂

  18. Dan Aponik

    Typical Garmin business model. Rush the product to market. Expect the public to beta test it. Release numerous firmware fixes. Get it right by the 3rd version.

  19. Sean

    XDR hub support?

  20. fl33tStA

    hope the firmware Update of Neo 2 will come soon, one year waiting for Cycling Dynamics is very weird, as i remind, this was one of the main features for Neo 2 during their marketing presentations?

  21. Jordi Backx

    …. The big 2019/2020 trainer buyer’s guide on the horizon? The days are getting shorter again. 😉

    I’d think the 2T will be accompanied by an updated Flux. And Wahoo will release new Kickr (Pro’s) … not to speak of Elite and the others.

  22. Jari

    Thanks for the review! Will the 2T model be compatible with bikes having R.A.T-axles?

    • Daniel

      Not certain on R.A.T. support, but if you need (or want) to swap for a more standard through axle, you can find a kit here:

      link to robertaxleproject.com

      I changed out the stock R.A.T. system for these on my Cervelo R5. The kit worked flawlessly and is of a very high quality.

    • David D

      I’m hoping that’s the case. It’s the main reason I’m upgrading my 2 to 2T. I 3D printed an adapter to use with the Tacx axle but it’s a pain to switch all those parts out every time I want to switch riding outdoors or on the trainer.

  23. Rai

    Has there been any comment on a Neo 2 upgrade kit? I.E. Can the 2T flywheel be used on the 2 to address some (maybe not all) of the slip issue? I’d imagine there’s a lot of disgruntled Neo 2 owners as a result of this release.

  24. Kari Nieminen

    Hi Ray, Is the firmware updating going to reduce the slip effect of Neo 2.

  25. Nick

    I too would like to know if Tacx will release a 2T flywheel kit or similar for those with Neo 2.

    For the sprinters, the slip effect is hugely frustrating.

    Ray, can you get an answer from a Tacx on this please? Really would be great to know.

    • Kareltje

      I suspect not, as the 2T has different magnets and different placement of the magnets. GPLama filmed at the TACX factory, watch his video and you can see in more detail.

    • Kareltje

      Sorry this was supposed to be a reply to Kari’s comment.

    • Eoc

      Totally agreed. They promised me a fix for it because you get the slip but then no resistance at all and you have to stop your session losing the work already done. Its not what was described when purchased and so they have a legal obligation to fix it.

    • The slip issue has been around since the beginning of time with the Neo. As noted, there isn’t a retrofit kit here, it’s a totally different beast.

  26. Nick

    When I’m working on my neuromuscular power I do standing starts kicking up to 1450w and the slip effect is shocking.

  27. David Sanchez

    Ray,

    Thanks for the review. One question, do you think that. Neo 2 will receive the firmware update to be open to third parties cycle-computers (as wahoo, polar, sigma) in order to see the data of the advanced cycling dynamics? At the current date they updated only for Garmin devices … secondly, do you know if they want to add new firmware for Bluetooth in order to permit that two devices that use BLE could be connected (for example record data in Polar and Tacx software?

    Many thanks

    • Cycling Dynamics is actually an open standard these days. It’s up to other companies to adopt it. Favero has already, on the broadcast side.

      I don’t know of any plans to add secondary Bluetooth sensor connectivity, though, Wahoo is implementing such today via firmware update…

  28. DerLordBs

    What TaxcX NEO trainers are compatible wit the Sram AXS line up.? I got a NEO 1 an I am not sure if a Force Axn would fit. The website said it is not compatible with Red AXS. But I am not sure if it’s also the not compatible with Force AXS

    • Eric Tiffany

      Where did you see that Red AXS is not compatible? You would need a XDR driver body, but the fact that they make that available implies AXS compatibility. I can’t imagine why Red vs Force would be different — they both have approx the same RD cage length and crank setup…

    • DerLordBs

      It was stated at their old support website. TACX is now part of Garmin and I could not find a compatibilty list at the new Garmin site.

  29. Marco

    I would buy a DD trainer if only they came with some sort of construction/quick-release to swap different cassettes quickly! The girl is using 10 speed campa and I use 11 speed shimano. We’re using the same trainer due too space issues and are now forced to a wheel-on trainer 🙁

  30. fisao

    I am still rocking( haha) the Tacx Neo 1, and so far, I have seen very little incentive to upgrade between their models. I guess that is a good news/bad news situation.

    Now, please, please, please, give us a great trainer bike product TACX!

  31. Audun

    Do the Wahoo Kickr/Kickr Core also have these slipping issues at low speed? Meaning this is another reason to choose a Tacx Neo 2T over a Wahoo Kickr (Core)?

    • kwemple

      i have a Kickr that is a few years old and do not have any slippage issues. I tried a Neo last year but returned it after trying a few climbs.

  32. James Brown

    I wonder if the Neo smart bike will also have the new 2T internals or if its still based on the Neo 2

  33. Eoc

    “Which part of the public beta tested this?
    By and large people are pretty happy with the Tacx 1 & 2 units out there.”

    I can only speak for myself and I have had this slipping issue since the first day. I lodged 3 complaints and was told in June a fix would come in September. So i fully expect a fix or a full refund.

  34. Joakim

    Will this really fix the virtual tire slip issue, or will it just slightly move the point at which it will occur? (I mean according to the specs, the motor doesn’t seem to be that much stronger?)

    • It fixes it (both on paper, and in my testing). The chart/graph shows it’s not just barely moving it. You’d have to put out massive power to override it.

      I certainly can’t come anywhere even close to achieving that power to make it slip.

    • fl33tStA

      Hi Ray,

      is it possible to aks how support is handled in the future and of course today, seems Tacx homepage isn’t up to date and the Garmin sites aren’t up to date too?

      Tacx Training Software will get updates too, or no changes nor new things?

      cheers
      fl33tStA

      THX for the great Live Ticker!

    • Joakim

      Ok sounds great. Heard that the release date is Jan 2020 though, atleast here in Sweden. So currently considering if I should sent the neo 2 that I ordered and if it’s worth the wait.

  35. Stephan van Sint Fiet

    Would love to get one of these, but I ride quick release bikes while my wife rides a thru axle bike. Switching between the two seems easier on the Kickr than on the Tacx, plus some people seem to find it challenging to fit their disc brakes next to the body of the NEO. Any thoughts on this?

  36. Paul

    Tacx have just agreed to replace my faulty Flux2 with a Neo2 under warranty, I guess this release is why they are now happily shifting the older units as warranty replacements. I’ll see if they’ll send me a 2T instead, but I doubt it…

    • Thomas

      I have a warrenty case with my 2. Neo2. I asked whether to get the new one – me willingly paying extra for it – but they said no… 🙁

    • Paul

      My replacement arrived and I was very surprised to get a 2T, when they had told me I could only upgrade to a 2. Don’t know if I just got a lucky mistake from the warehouse or it was intentional.
      Fingers crossed for you.

  37. Alex

    Hi Ray,

    I have a thru-axle bike (Canyon Ultimate) and am hesitant between the Neo 2 (at 1099€ with Mantel in the EU) or the 2T (higher price point but direct thru-axle compatibility). What would you choose?

    Thanks,
    Alex

  38. Fish

    Here’s the question… is the new Smart Bike using these 2T internals or the previous 2 internals?

  39. Greg

    I got a Neo 2, and tried my first Level mode power test on it (Sufferfest Full Frontal) and had huge problems with “slip.” I had to quit my test. I’ve had zero problems over a about a month of Erg mode workouts.

    Is there something weird about Level mode on this trainer? The slip occurred over a wide range of power/torque/cadence. From 100W to 400W 50-100RPM.

  40. Pete

    Wait for Tacx Neo 2T
    or
    buy Wahoo Kickr Core + Kickr Climb (now with cadence support and BT)

    My first smart trainer.
    I would appreciate the help.

    P.S.
    No need for cobblestone feel. 🙂

    • Jcg

      I started with a 1st gen Neo, and then moved to a KICKR + Climb this past December. For me, the ability to ride the hilly routes on Zwift with my position moving to a true climbing position was the most important feature to make my training more realistic. Pretending to ride hills with the bile in a static position is not the same. Ask any Dutch rider who trains on pancake flat roads. I’ve had that experience years ago.
      I’ve used both and prefer the addition of the Climb.

    • Pete

      Thank you for the advice.

      I am also attracted to the Climb as I live in the Alps and would like to have the riding position feel over the winter.

      I also own pair of Assioma powermeter pedals and would like the power output similarity with the Kickr Core.

      So I guess the only issue would be the need for calibration and stuff but I don’t mind.

      Not really sure if the cadence transmission works ok now with the SW update or not.

    • Ross Foulkes

      How does the Climb help you get better at climbing hills?
      That seems like a ridiculous claim.
      Any of the erg trainers on the market can do that by pushing you over your threshold for extended periods. Even my old fluid trainer can do this.
      I’d say it’s harder to stay comfortable on the very static Kickr vs the Neo that flexes.

    • On one hand I agree, there isn’t in theory a difference from a wattage/incline standpoint.As you noted, any trainer can do that.

      But there is a difference from a position perspective. You’re pushed back on the saddle, and that’s going to engage different muscles. Hugely? Unlikely (Wahoo says there’s some study around it, but it seems somewhat limited).

      I think if one flips the equation around though and asks instead: If training for a long climb would it be better to mimic a climb, or better to mimic flat ground – I think everyone would realistically say ‘mimic a climb’. Even from a mental standpoint there’s undoubtedly something there.

      As for flex – one interesting tidbit is that both solutions flex, but in different ways. In the case of the NEO you get more flex under your seat (but really, it’s pretty small). However, in the case of the KICKR/CLIMB you actually get some subtle rotational flex because the CLIMB unit rotates slightly left/right if you press on it (just as the NEO does in the back). I’m not sure either are huge deals, but worthwhile noting.

    • Thomas

      Not all are equally impacted going uphill. So if training on flat grounds, then some will feel the difference on a climb a lot while others (like myself) are not very much affected.

    • Ross F

      Fair play Ray. I don’t own a Climb unit so have nothing to compare to.

    • Thomas

      I have had the Kickr18 with a climb module. But swapped it to a Neo2. I think the Neo2 is quite a bit comfier to ride compared to Kickr. The Kickr is a harsh ride. The climb module did not change that a lot for me. Just saying…

    • Pete

      Oh waw, now I’m lost again.
      Haha.

    • Thomas

      If you live in the Alps, buy a climb module. It’s fun nonetheless 😉

  41. Thomas

    FWIW: My Neo2T has currently shipped (ordered at Tacx website). So they’re shippping right now…

    • mo

      woo hoo! I guess i should just order then

    • …doesn’t mean the accuracy issues that both myself and Lama are waiting on are fixed.

    • Robert

      any information about upcoming firmware update?

    • We got a note today saying they’re getting close on one, with a bunch of detail around what they’ve found. They expect to have that update ready on Monday.

    • Thomas

      Great news! I’m getting mine on Monday. I’ll report back my findings (compared to a Quarq).

    • Robert

      Bielieve It , when I see It

    • Robert

      Can you share any updates about firmware ?
      I wont buy 2T before they fixed accurance issues

    • Thomas

      I got my N2T yester (on Monday 17th.) and currently I’m running firmware 0.0.27. I believe my old N2 was running the same firmware version. So I think it’s not the new firmware? @Ray can you comment on that?

      I have had two rides on my N2T. Both with a lot of testing. My initial input on accuracy is – it varies. I have riden ERG-mode with 30s @ 700W with less than 1% difference (Quarq vs Neo). But then later that day I did a SIM-mode with 5% too little from Neo.

      So if I should give a very initial and short summary, I’d say accuracy is between 0-5% less than Quarq. It’s not bad, but definitely needs to improve.

      I hope the next firmware fixes that. Any news on that Ray?

    • Hi Guys-

      I don’t have any updates yet on firmware, it hasn’t been released yet. I think they’re close, as we’ve been chatting about other topics, but nothing yet on this one.

      I wouldn’t surprise me if I see an update later today.

      Cheers.

  42. JCG

    Not a ridiculous claim at all. When I was an amateur racing in Italy during late 80’s and 90’s I lived in Bologna, where part of the city is pancake flat, extending to the Po Valley, that is miles of pancake flat roads. While to the south we had amazing hills. I’ve had real life training experiences with top riders on how to train. No one trains on flat roads to ride up a hill. Big gear, low cadence, is still riding a flat road. Riding your bike in a horizontal position stresses your muscles in slightly different way than when your on an incline. Shifting your weight to back of the saddle changes how you pedal up hill. I’ve been riding trainers for almost 30 years now. Yes, you can build strength in a static position, but riding on undulating roads with long climbs is not static. Now that I have an opportunity to properly simulate a proper riding position, I’ll take it.

    • Ross F

      Hi JCG. If it works for you, that’s great. I’ll take note and take that on board.
      Personally, I’ve found lower cadence drills in lower gears give the best results for hill training, but I can see the merit in changing the angle of attack also. On the trainers in erg mode at least.
      I’ll happily throw some books under the front wheel for the mornings intervals to see if it makes a difference.
      Admittedly, I can ride hilly terrain right outside my door all year round, so I’m probably already doing the work outdoors.

      Sorry if my comment came across as a personal attack. Written words can come across that way when trying to keep things short.

  43. Peter Balog

    Hi, Ray.
    I have read the reviews of Kickr Core and NE2t extensively.
    I am wondering witch one to get? I have a Bushido that is a good trainer but I want to upragde to a direct drive, both because of that they are more silent and that I don´t want to change to trainer tire. I tried to leave the regular tire on now, but last workout the tire overheated I thnink. It got all sticky. 
    Now I read the Neo 2t and I get even more confused. If I Choose between Neo2 and 2t, should I pot for the newer one? But then I don´t think I have the budget anymore, cause I found the Neo2 like 280 Euro cheaper than the 2t.
    So i´m back I think to choose between NEO2 and Core (maybe with a Climb) ?
    Is the Climb any more than just gimmick? If I don’t get the climb total cost is cheaper, but it could be nice to simulate uphill.? 
    I feel that the while the Neo doesn’t seem to need calibration, that’s nice. I don’t have power meters and such stuff so it would be nice to have accuracy. Not sure how often you need to calibrate the Core and if its tedious? Read somewhere her I think that in the future climb will be compatible with Neo?
    What should one choose ?

    • nunya

      Some things to note:

      1) The climb doesn’t work in ERG mode. So, if you only do workouts and don’t free-ride Zwift, the Climb is not worth the investment.
      2) Kickr 2018 has some noise issues. Ray has a video on it, but the fixes from the factory are not always performed correctly and you get continuing issues.
      3) Kickr should be calibrated every week or 2 weeks of usage.

    • Peter Balog

      After a couple of days thinking i want the Neo 2.
      However is the Neo 2 T worth the extra money,?
      I should think that the Neo2 is still pretty good for about 270 dollars less

  44. Paul

    As of 17th September with Zwift with firmware 0.0.27 and Zwift 1.0.39812 the road feel doesn’t work, as Zwift doesn’t recognise the Neo2T as being a Neo if you connect using ANT+. Apparently works fine over Bluetooth. Tacx are aware, hopefully it should be a simple fix but I think it needs to come from the Zwift side.

  45. Thomas

    A quick headsup on my 3. run on the N2T. So far – I’m quite happy with it. Accuracy is almost there; I’m seeing an offset vary from 3-10W. That is not much and one could say it is ok. But thing is, I see 5W error on a 1000W sprint! But then again, I see 10W off on a 2min interval @ 350W…?! So IT IS GOOD – but still needs a bit on finetuning, if you ask me…

    Check out my data here: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

    BTW – Z.E.R.O tireslip on my 10s 1kW intervals. The two first one was starting at 50 rpm. The next two about 75 rpm. This is really great.

    I’m still in dialog with TACX about some kind of spacer on the NDS. Issues is that my Tarmac disc caliber touches the N2T housing. For now I have solved it with an extra spacer between the frame and the N2T adaptor. But that seems like a cheap solution. I’m awaiting Tacx’ input…

    Oh gotta mention the noise level. It is true. The N2T IS really quiet. So I hope the next firmware will fix the last wattage finetuning and then I think we have the perfect trainer. I really think the N2T has that potential…

  46. Claude-Etienne Borduas

    Are the features that low thru-axle support on the 2T transferable to a Neo 2 by purchasing different adapters?

    I’m not keen on the Neo 2 solution of having a straight metal rod resting on the female threads of the thru-axle drop out on my bike as the point of support for my weight.

    Is there now a solution that screws into the dropout properly that can be used on a Neo 2?

    Is

  47. Karla

    Does anyone know of compatibility issues with Oversized PulleyWheels (such as CeramicSpeed) and short cranks (155) with the NEo 2T???

    • nunya

      The only thing I know about is the cadence sensor. Read the other comments.

    • Ross F

      Hi Karla. I’m running SRAM eagle on the Neo2.
      The pulley wheels are pretty large and the cage is quite long.
      I can use the full 12 speed 10-50 range of the cassette. There is a slight rub of the cage on the trainer when I’m in the 50 tooth.

  48. Gary

    All quite on the firmware update😐

  49. Robert

    @Dc Rainmaker – any news why we still wait for update? 3 weeks ago you mentioned that It would happen in a moment

    • When I checked on Friday, they were still working on it and polishing it a bit.

    • Johannes

      Just ordered a neo 2t … I think this is actually a good thing. It’s better if they take their time and do it right instead of pushing buggy updates!

    • Thomas

      You will not regret the N2T. I think it’s quite a bit better than N2. It’s really quiet and so strong. I just hope that next firmware will fix the minor wattage issues, which Ray mentioned earlier and Tacx confirmed looking at. But even though these minor issues, I would at any time recommend the N2T over previous Neo’s. Just my 2 cent…

  50. Johannes

    I experience a strange behaviour from my 2T:
    When i switch the trainer on (ie. plug it in) the red light glows as it should. When i first start pedalling i see the cadence sensor is reporting the cadence correctly but after aprox. 5 seconds the red light starts flashing and the cadence is not reported any more. The red light then keeps flashing indefinitely. Everything else seems to work normally although i once had an “overheating” error displayed…
    Does anyone experience similar issues?!

    • Thomas

      Nope…. Mine just works out of the box (except the known minor wattage issues mentioned earlier in the thread)

    • Johannes

      3rd test today…my NEO 2T is overheating after 7 minutes Zwift with avg power of 161w 😛 … i think this one has to go back!

    • Ihsan

      The deep discounts on Neo2 starting to look attractive.

    • Matt

      I just received my 2t today and I had the same issue. It works for about 5 minutes and then overheats and resistance drops out (no resistance, 0 watts in Zwift). The internal cooling fan doesn’t seem to be working. It works when first plugged in but doesn’t stay on or come on when the trainer heats up. If I unplug it and plug it back in, the fan starts up on a high speed and it take about 10 minutes to cool down. I called Garmin and they said I have to return it for a new one. What stinks is I’m in the US and I received the unit directly from Tacx in Holland. They don’t have them in the US yet, I’ve learned, and it will take 2-3 weeks to get the replacement.

    • Johannes

      They seem to be having some manufacturing issues. I wanted to remove the freehub body to return the trainer but it was impossible due to the endcap being extremely overtightened. They ensured me that they will send a new trainer as soon as they receive the old one. I’d hope that they will send you a new one as soon as your old one is on it’s way back…let’s see how this plays out. Looks like tacx has some serious issues in QC anyway…

    • Thomas

      This is weird. I have done several 280-300W 30 min sessions workout any issue. The fans are working though they’re very quiet. Maybe I’m just lucky with mine…

    • Johannes

      I think this is an issue only affecting a (hopefully small) subset of units probably due to manufacturing tolerances/issues. If you could do 30 min of ~300w you should be fine. My 2T overheated in 3 testrides after several minutes of very light (sub 200w) pedaling. I did hear the fan so this is not the problem, at least with mine…

    • Matt

      I hope it’s a small number. I enjoyed the trainer when it was working. My overheated in the same way, after about 5 minutes at around 200w. For mine, I believe the fan was the issue. It would run at a high speed when first plugged in, but then I wouldn’t hear it run at the speed again as I rode and eventually it would overheat.

    • Matt

      @Johannes – Did you receive your replacement trainer yet? Curious to hear if you had similar problems with the new trainer?

    • Johannes

      Not yet, although they received the unit yesterday they are taking their time :/ … you’ll probably receive yours before i do after all 😀 … i’ll report back here when i get mine and have it put through it’s paces!

  51. Charles Dauphinais

    Ray, any updates on the firmware and the overheating issue? Should I buy a discounted Neo2?

  52. Matt

    You’re lucky, it seems you live in a country where they can quickly ship it. In the US, Garmin is telling me it will take 2-3 weeks for a replacement because they are unable to order a replacement directly from Tacx due to the two companies not being fully integrated yet. So, they’re waiting for their shipment of 2T’s. I wonder how widespread the overheating problem is.

    • Johannes Dünser

      Fingers crossed that it will not take so long for you until you get the replacement. Pretty annoying!

    • Matt

      Yeah, hope you’re back up and running soon too! Keep us posted.

    • Bill

      I’m thankful for this discussion. I was on the fence between a 2T and a Wahoo Kickr 2018 / Climb. (The Wahoo delivery is scheduled for Tuesday.)

    • Matt

      Good luck with your purchase! It sounds like that trainer is very comparable. I’ll keep folks up to date on where my situation goes.

    • Nunya

      Kickr 2018 vs Neo 2T…you have t read the comments in the thread have you?

    • Matt DelMarcelle

      Quick update – Tacx contacted Garmin to speed things up and they arranged to have the replacement shipped this week, should arrive tomorrow. So, happy that they were able to switch things out quickly. They actually shipped the new trainer out before actually receiving the old one, but they were able to see that I shipped it. I’ll update folks on whether I have any issues with the replacement.

    • Matt

      One more update – I received the replacement Neo 2T today and set it up right away. It arrived much faster than Garmin first said thanks to some help from Tacx directly I believe (sent it back on Sat and got it today (Thurs)). I’m happy to report that I’ve had no issues with the replacement. It’s practically silent, super smooth, and a big upgrade from my previous trainer. 6 years ago or so, I bought the Cycleops Powerbeam Pro, which was one of the first smart trainers out I believe when smart trainers started becoming popular. But it was a wheel on trainer. When I got it, I loved it, coming at that time, from a basic fluid trainer. The trainer was very reliable, and worked well with Rouvy (and whatever Cycleops called it before that) and Zwift. Over the years, though, I grew tired of the tire on design (slips, limited possible resistance, only decent road-like feel), and that trainer wasn’t incredibly quick with resistance changes. The 2T is a huge upgrade on all fronts. Resistance changes are relatively instantaneous. The road-like feel is much better. Resistance, particularly on hills is much greater and there seems to be more range on the low end too. With the old trainer, the resistance never really let up that much going down a virtual hill. With the 2t, it’s much more noticable.

      So, overall, I’m very pleased with the trainer and hope I get as many years out of it as my old one. If anything changes I’ll come back and provide an update.

    • Johannes

      Hi Matt,

      good to hear that TACX was able to replace your broken 2T so quickly. I am still waiting on the replacement 2 weeks after i sent it back with no change to the status visible in their system. I am living in Europe, so sending a new trainer would take 2 days…
      Although i believe the 2T has the potential to be a great trainer i am really pissed about the way TACX is handling their QC and support. I hope they can get their act together soon!

  53. Shea

    If I had to make a purchase today, Neo 2T at $1400 or Wahoo Kickr/Climb for $1600?

    • Shea

      Keep this in mind when answering the previous question posted. I also MTB (29er on Eagle platform) quite a bit through summer alternating between mountain and roads and with Zwift trying out MTB with possible turning for funzies. I live in NoDak so a trainer is very useful for me, but would like the ability to do both if more MTB trails come to fruition.

    • nunya

      I do all sorts of biking, road, MTB, and gravel.

      Which trainer you use depends heavily on what you’re doing on it. I use Zwift as well, but only because it makes it easier to access training plans with automatic imports, and it makes it less monotonous. Though, with Garmin integration, it’s probably an area where I can save $15/month.

      That said, I only do 2 things on the trainer. ERG workouts, or Zwift racing. I never futz around, and I don’t think the MTB adder to Zwift will be the least bit interesting to me. Because of those, the climb is out of the question, for me, since. it doesn’t do anything in ERG mode and would be an expensive fork dropout holder. Also, the way accelerometers work in the phone and the connectivity to Zwift being a tad slow, I’m not sure their MTB feature is going to pan out, other than being annoying with missed turns and subtle adjustments being missed or completely off. In short, it’s going to be nothing like steering on a real bike, and be just as annoying as trying to play some games on a phone.

      That makes it a base Kickr 2018 or the Neo 2T. Having had problems with a Kickr 2018, I would not use it. I even bought the Kickr *after* the supposed fix, and have had multiple returns with exchanged units continuing to fail, well into 2019 as it is. That leaves the Neo, by default. The 2T, though, seems to be having problems, so I’m in a holding pattern, running my older Kickr at the moment to see how the 2T plays out.

      link to dcrainmaker.com

      The comments show repeated issues by multiple people, even after the supposed fix. That’s pretty annoying. But, Wahoo support is awesome. That said, they have some problems, their latest fitness app seems to have stopped working properly on my Kickr 1, and I don’t know if I’m getting any power matching at all when I use Zwift on AppleTV, so have to go back to using the Zwift Companion. Their support can’t seem to respond to this issue. Tacx, I have no idea about. Garmin support, though, is slow and sucks. Their software has historically been not that great, at least on their GPS devices, and slow to update. Garmin having bought Tacx, brings a bit of a dark cloud over things.

      Which poison is better? I don’t know. The 2018 Kickr issue has really soured it for me having dealt with it first hand, and would like to see a 2020 Kickr that’s not so poorly designed in a key area. The Neo, people seem to like alot, but they have some design issues, and (for me) Garmin, which is an albatross. Even then, I’m leaning towards the 2T at the moment, but will wait some more.

      Also, when I had the Kickr, I didn’t find the power accuracy to be that great. It was off, and it varied considerably more than my power meters.

      In all honesty, I’m considering going back to a dumb trainer and a power meter, as well. But, the 2T is in the lead at the moment.

      Just sharing my thought process, and hope to bring some insights, having been burned by the Kickr 2018.

    • Shea

      It is good information for sure… Doesn’t really help me, but thanks for adding your thoughts. It sounds more like whatever route I go, expect issues and I don’t like that. Thanks!

    • nunya

      Sure, no problem.

      I also wanted to point out how you will use the trainer and what matters to you. For me, the Climb add-on isn’t worth it, as it would never really be used in an interactive manner. I might set it to max height, to work on climbing, but it’ll sit that way for the duration. That can also be accomplished by putting blocks under the front wheel.

      One point that may have been lost in all that, is that ERG mode and the Kickr Climb don’t play together. The incline of the course doesn’t affect the climb, when doing an ERG mode workout. It only works in Sim mode, or in other words, free riding on Zwift. Workouts just won’t have your front end going up and down with the Zwift course.

      That, by itself, may save you some money on the Kickr side and may alter your price point for decision making.

    • Ihsan

      “In all honesty, I’m considering going back to a dumb trainer and a power meter, as well.”

      nunya, since you’ve touched on this, allow me a question.

      I have a power meter and a dumb trainer. I use Zwift to break the monotony but it’s difficult to match power profiles of outside and inside rides. (ie, for a given slope/grade one always seems to output more power outside compared to inside on the dumb trainer)

      Do you find the smart trainer matches the outside ride power profile a bit better?

    • Ihsan

      “In all honesty, I’m considering going back to a dumb trainer and a power meter, as well.”

      nunya, since you’ve touched on this, allow me a question.

      I have a power meter and a dumb trainer. I use Zwift to break the monotony but it’s difficult to match power profiles of outside and inside rides. (ie, for a given slope/grade one always seems to output more power outside compared to inside on the dumb trainer)

      Do you find the smart trainer matches the outside ride power profile a bit better?

    • nunya

      @Ihsan

      “Do you find the smart trainer matches the outside ride power profile a bit better?”

      No, but I also don’t have that problem until it gets steep. Flat stuff, I’m closely matched. The steep stuff, it’s different muscles due to a different angle and saddle position and pedal stroke, compared to being flat.

      That said, the resistance on the pedal stroke is very different than a real bike ride. It feels different, but the numbers do match for me. I can last longer outside, because it’s not as hard.

      The SMART trainers I have used, Kickr 1 and Kickr 2018, I have had to use a power meter, as I found the Kickr 1 to be highly inaccurate and variant. The Kickr 2018 didn’t quite match as well. Between the replacement units on the 2018, even after spindowns and the like, it was off.

      Based on reviewers and the like, it seems the expectation is to warmup, do a spindown and then continue on. That’s not really how I workout. I just get on and go. Wahoo recommends every few weeks or so, I can’t remember. But, I find variations. The Wahoo 1 is especially bad, hence the power meter, and that’s what I’ll continue to use. It would be nice to be more accurate, and one reason why the Neo catches my eye.

    • Ihsan

      nunya,

      Thanks a lot! I agree 100% on the warmup-spin-calibrate thing.

      That’s why I’m considering the Neo series as well.

    • Phil

      @nunya

      I’m with you on the accuracy of the original Kickr. I bought mine new in 2014. It always seems to be reading much higher than my power meter but improves as my Kickr warms up. However, over a one hour ERG mode workout, the average power is off by as much as 20%. For example, using the Wahoo Fitness app, if I set my Kickr to 240 watts and ride for an hour, my Stages power meter paired to my Garmin head unit will say that I only rode at 200 watts for an hour. Is this the type of difference that you are seeing? I would like to get a second power meter to be certain that it is not my power meter that is the problem.

      Like you, I am looking at buying a second trainer but waiting until the issues are sorted out on the Neo 2T. I am also considering the Drivo II but concerned about its accuracy, especially with short intervals in ERG mode.

      On the positive side for the Kickr is that Wahoo support has been good. I have not been able to convince them that the Kickr is inaccurate but they have been good at resolving any other issues that I have had during the past five years and sending me parts, as needed. The other factor in the Kickr’s favor is the new Inside Ride E-Flex motion system that is soon to be released. It only works with the Kickr and could make riding indoors for long periods more comfortable.

      Like you, I only ride in ERG mode. I have mostly been using TrainerRoad.

    • nunya

      @Phil

      “It always seems to be reading much higher than my power meter but improves as my Kickr warms up. However, over a one hour ERG mode workout, the average power is off by as much as 20%. For example, using the Wahoo Fitness app, if I set my Kickr to 240 watts and ride for an hour, my Stages power meter paired to my Garmin head unit will say that I only rode at 200 watts for an hour. Is this the type of difference that you are seeing? I would like to get a second power meter to be certain that it is not my power meter that is the problem.”

      I bought mine early in the first release, as it seemed to be a game changer compared to my Kurt Kinetic.

      This is exactly the type of problem I see with it, and why I have had to put a power meter on it. Though it’s not always higher, it’s lower. There’s a heavy temperature variance. I’ve done spindown multiple times, and the spindown is highly inconsistent. I can spindown once and have power higher. Spindown again, and power is lower. I do it after a workout, so it’s definitely warm. The next morning, the power is not even close to what the power meter reads. Then they converge about 20 minutes in. About 40 minutes in, they diverge. Without the consistency of the power meter, the workouts would sometimes feel easy and sometimes feel hard. I would think it’s me, and look through fitness data, and can’t figure out why I would feel so weak or so strong. Then I put a power meter on, and found the nonsense. I used that for a couple of more years, and finally got the 2018 model, and boy that was a big mistake.

      The 2018 model was better in terms of power consistency, but within the different trainers I had, the variances were different. Sometimes high, sometimes low. It did not diverge as much as the Kickr 1.

      For the Drivo II, I have looked at it, but I have heard that their support is not good, and slow to respond, and that there are ERG response issues which have not been resolved. I don’t know for sure, the user base seems to be much smaller than the Wahoo Kickr or the Neo. The Wahoo experience has definitely made me gun shy about buying a new trainer, and seriously considering going back to a Kurt Kinetic with a power meter, which can survive an atomic bomb. I may just wait for the bearings to go out on my Kickr 1, I already had to replace the belt tension bearing, due to pitting in the steel from the environment in which it sits (the sweat and humidity, I presume).

      The Kickr 1 with a power meter kinda works, except they screwed up something with their latest Fitness App release. The toggles no longer work, and the cadence from ANT+ is all screwed up. Power from ANT+ no longer works as well. So, using it with Zwift on an AppleTV is going back to the old Zwift Companion method, which is annoying.

      Since you have a Kickr 1, does the Fitness App work for you now? It got screwed up with the latest update. This is on iOS. I don’t know if Android is any better.

      I agree, Wahoo support has been good, but this fiasco of the 2018 model has me taking them off my list.

      The main problem is that they are using the user base to screen their problems. They claimed a fix, and then they continue to cycle trainers through the use base in a rotating fashion, retrofitting them as they come back and sending them back out. Who knows how large an inventory they have to cycle through. Also, that means that if you buy a new trainer, you’re likely to get a refurbished one. That’s really not cool. I also got my trainer after seeing the DCR Wahoo CEO video. I got it in mid 2019. The SN was after the range indicated, and I still had to go through multiple trainers until I got a refund and would’ve claimed a lemon law buyback if this were a car.

      Till this day, people are posting problems about the 2018 Kickr, and that’s really mind numbing. If this were a car, they would’ve been hit with a class action lawsuit already.

    • Phil

      @nunya

      I have not updated the Wahoo Fitness app on my iPhone and tried it with the Kickr yet. I will let you know the results when I do. I have been riding outside but that is starting to come to an end unfortunately with the colder and darker days.

      The only reason the Drivo II came onto my radar is because my local bike shop recommended it. What they like about the support from Elite is that instead of having to send the entire trainer back if there is an issue, Elite actually sends the parts to my local bike shop to fix the trainer. The turnaround is much quicker. That said, I wish there were zero issues in the first place. Also, reading various forums online, there are still issues in ERG mode. The Drivo II does not respond quickly to changes in power, especially with short intervals. DC Rainmaker and GPLama did not seem to have issues with their units but so many people are talking about their issues online.

      Per your bad experience with the Kickr 2018, my local bike shop has completely given up on Wahoo. They told me that it has been a nightmare for them with so many people returning their Kickr 2018 trainers to the store and then the store having to ship them back to Wahoo for repair or replacement. They spent a lot of money on shipping.

      So, with all that said, I guess I am down to the Neo 2T whenever they release the new firmware to fix the current issues. It makes me nervous though. It seems next to impossible to find a good reliable trainer even if I am willing to buy a top-end one. They all seem to have issues.

    • Phil

      @nunya

      It is getting pretty chilly here so I finally put my bike on my Kickr (2014) yesterday. It looks like the latest Wahoo Fitness app is 5.24.0. I am running 5.14.2 and hesitant to update to the latest version based on what you said. I am running it on my iPhone 6.

      Other details that you did not ask for:

      Kickr firmware: 1.5.68 (latest version for Kickr 2014)

      Wahoo Fitness Utility app: 3.1.2

      Spindown result after riding for one hour using Wahoo Fitness Utility app:
      Spindown time: 27.141
      Temperature: 42.36
      Offset: 32769

  54. Tjeerd Tim

    Hi all,

    Still undecided between the neo 2t and neo 2. Does anybody know if the sound difference between the 2t and 2 is huge, or not really worth the price difference? Set aside any other difference of course, I am really curious about the noice levels.

    Thanks!

    • Thomas

      I have the N2T (and had N2). Both are great trainers. The N2T definitely is quieter. It’s not worlds, but you will notice it. Also I have no vibrations or anything on my N2T. That too helps keeping the noise down. After a while you slowly start to realize how much noise your chain actually makes.

    • Tjeerd Tim

      Thanks Thomas!

  55. Martin Becker

    Hi Ray did you get a response of

    I’m still in dialog with TACX about some kind of spacer on the NDS. Issues is that my Tarmac disc caliber touches the N2T housing. For now I have solved it with an extra spacer between the frame and the N2T adaptor. But that seems like a cheap solution. I’m awaiting Tacx’ input…

    I got the Neo 1 and a Canyon Aeroad Disc. The Discbrake touch the Body of the Neo. After searching the Web i found a Tacx Neoowners FB Group that discuss the problem. Some one uses a 5mm spacer, but some one got stability probs with the thru axle and the spacer. I will purchase the neo2t where the prob still exists. Tacx offers a special Assembly kit with spacers.

    Thx

    • Thomas

      I had the same problem with my tarmac disc. I solved it by cutting a piece of the NDS 148/12 adaptor so that it now is 143,5. Or the other way around +1,5 mm of the NDS 142/12. I have been in dialog with Tacx all the way and emailed them pictures as well. My solution world really well. I had a lathe to trim the adaptor.

    • Martin Becker

      Hi folks,

      today the parts from Tacx arrives, and with the 5mm Spacer it works fine.
      Look at this vid for details, I found it on the trainerroad forum:
      link to youtube.com
      The Discmount dont touch the body of the neo and the bike axle fis in.

      Greets

    • Thomas

      Are you using the 12mm thru axle? I do…

    • Martin Becker

      Yes the thru axle from the original part kit dir 12*142 plus the 5mm spacer from the add part kit dir neo

    • Thomas

      Ok the video just shows different 🙂

    • Bjorn

      I have the same problem with my Venge with SRAM AXS. Unfortunately the extra spacer didn’t solve the problem of the brake hose to touch the casing of the Neo. Maybe an extra 3mm wil solve the problem but than my axle might be a bit on the short side…

      I’ve contacted Tacx again and explained this issue. Hopefully they come up with an solution.

  56. Del

    Being in the same boat as a few of you in this conversation–choosing my next smart trainer–I’m wondering if anyone has a compelling reason not to consider the Saris H3 over the NEO 2T and the KICKR? I’m also primarily using my trainer for ERG workouts, so I want a good quality ride and reliable power numbers. To quote Ray’s review from 8/29, “if you’re living in a TrainerRoad world (or any other ERG mode app), there’s no better trainer than this for nailing ERG workouts best I see at this point.”

    I’ve never ridden a Tacx–assuming they get the issues with the Neo 2T worked out, is it really worth the premium over the H3?

  57. Gary

    I’m with you on the H3,
    I can’t see how it isn’t coming up trumps against these other few leading trainers.

    • Sean

      I’m trying to choose a trainer to replace my aging Kurt trainer. Like many, I’m torn between Wahoo Kicker / Climb – which seems really attractive, and Tacx, which seems a solid, but expensive option. Both of those models seem to have quality control issues that make me a bit nervous. However, after reading this review of the H3, I think that it has become an option that I need to consider pretty thoroughly. I would love to hear more thoughts on how it stacks-up against the “big two” – especially for an older guy who simply wants to stay in shape over the winter. I ride mostly Sufferfest and FulGaz in my pain cave.

    • Thomas

      Didn’t Wahoo just buy Sufferfest? I’m pretty sure they did… On the other hand, Tacx’s Desktop Software is the best if you want to ride videos. The quality is the reference.

    • Sean

      Wahoo did just buy Sufferfest – which makes me wonder what is in store for integration between the two. I am quite concerned about Wahoo quality issues. On the other hand, Kicker & Climb seems like a nice combination to fight off boredom (though I have never tried the combination) as compared to a rear-only trainer.

      With discounts currently available on last-year’s models, I wonder if I am better off buying a Tacx Neo 2 at a discount versus the H3 or a Wahoo system. Given the newness of H3, it is hard to know what issues might arise in the future. I think that I can probably live with the slipping issue of the Tacx. Still, the Wahoo Kicker/Climb combination is intriguing (though more expensive than a discounted Neo 2.

    • Thomas

      Remember – like one mentioned earlier – climb module doesn’t work in ERG-mode. It will stay level. Though you can still tilt your bike manually with the climb module by pressing a button. Just saying…

  58. Jimmy Rueda

    Greetings from Colombia, I’m Jimmy Rueda sorry if this post is not the one for this problem I have, I have done the firmware update of my Neo 2 obviously following the steps suggested in link to tacxfaqx.com -updates / I have already completed 100%, after that the Neo 2 has been in the “limbo” and is no longer detected correctly in the “Tacx Utility” app I have tried to reverse the process and it is not possible following these indications link to support.tacx.com this I also did link to tacxfaqx.com -0-15-rollback /. It doesn’t work for me in any application (Zwift, Bkool, etc.)
    Please help, I think I lost my Tacx. Thank you

  59. Robert

    Dv rainmaker – do you work for Garmin / Tacx ?

  60. Robert

    It took them month to be closer… I hope they finally find the way . Sorry but we hear same thing more than month….. they are close

    • RossF

      Better to wait a month or two for a release that doesn’t brick the trainer. I seem to remember that happened to Wahoo when they released the cadence update recently.
      That’s not a dig at Wahoo in particular. It’s a common theme with cycling trainers and power meters.

      How far out was the trainer when you tested it Ray? A few watts here or there?

    • In the post above I included some accuracy snippets as well as my concerns.

    • RossF

      Sorry Ray. I went back and found the info.
      4-6% under. Without drivetrain loss I’d imagine.
      I only brought it up because I was reading some comments where people sounded like they’d poo poo the Neo 2t over that alone.

      My experience with with a Kickr Core was worse than that. It’s now an oversized doorstop that I’d struggle to get half of the purchase price back on.
      I figure I’ll keep it as a spare for that sort of money.
      No problems with the Neo 2 so far. It just works.

  61. Laurent

    Hi
    I broke the bank and invested in the 2T despite Ray reco to stick to the old one. But now I realise it returns 20W less than my assioma or 4iiii.
    Anybody facing this issue? As there is no calibration needed or possible, no idea how to align the 2.
    I have a brand new chain and cassette so loss through the drive train should not be that big
    I contacted the client service and waiting for their answer.
    Thanks in advance for your help

    • Paul

      I’ve recorded a few rides using 2T on Zwift and my 4iiiiiii single sided power meter recording to my Garmin independently. I’ll put the files into Ray’s comparison tool over the weekend and see how they compare.

    • Thomas

      I have 0-10W on my N2T when comparing to my Quarq. It’s a wellknown thing and Tacx are working on it. DCR stated that a bit time ago. It should be fixed in the long awaiting next firmware….

  62. Sean

    I am curious about the internal changes made to the Neo 2T – especially related to airflow through the unit. Long-term durability / reliability is important to me. Will the changes to the 2T make this unit worth the extra $200 to purchase the 2T now, or would a smarter decision be to save $200 and purchase a Neo 2 at a discounted price?

  63. Matt

    Hi, so I’m getting ready to buy a Tacx Neo 2T I think, I’m slightly concerned about the firmware/power discrepancy issues as described above, but I figure these should be resolved soon…
    One of my main reasons for preferring the Neo 2T is the pedalling analysis due to an old injury and seeing how this is affecting me and if I can improve things.
    Or should I be buying the Kickr?

    • Matt

      I recently purchased the 2T, but haven’t had a chance to play with the pedal analysis functionality yet. I’ve only used it with Zwift. Regarding your concern about power accuracy, I haven’t had any issues with it. The trainer this replaced was a Cycleops Powerbeam Pro, which I think was supposed to be accurate within +/- 5%. So, it’s not as accurate as the 2T, but from my experience with the 2T, the power numbers seem within the same range as my old trainer. I don’t notice any differences with the amount of effort I’m putting out and the power readings. Sounds like Tacx plans to update the firmware to improve the power accuracy, but where it’s at now seems pretty good. It’s not as though it’s reading 25% over or under. Good luck with whichever direction you go.

  64. Pete

    Hello again,

    Ray, if I have a pair of Assiomas and with the “power-match” feature on Trainerroad app I shouldn’t have any problems in terms of hitting the right goal wattage on intervals right? I’m planning to buy 2T and subscribe to TR and until recently wasn’t aware about this feature so I was searching for the “perfect wattage” trainer.

    Just wanted to make sure if I got it right. I am missing something?

    Tnx

  65. Cato

    Also seeing a huge W discrepancy between the 2T and my dual Vector 3.
    Here’s a short 5 min test I did yesterday comparing the power measurement between the two.

    The grill on the 2T was also so hot yesterday that I couldn’t hold my hand on top of it. Also having major problems with cadence, where it sometimes shows for a couple of minutes, then drops off completely or does not show up at all. Still seeing speed measurements, however. Might just contact my local distributor tomorrow and see what they say.

  66. Is the underreporting of power by 4-6% still expected with firmware 0.0.27? I definitely still see that compared to my Vector 3 pedals.
    Also, left/right power with that firmware version gives me very different results (57%-43%) from the Vector 3 (50%-50%, I’m not always at 50/50 but the worst I’ve ever seen with the Vector 3 was 53/47).
    link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

    One thing I do like about the Neo, though, is that it seems to report power and cadence changes much quicker to Zwift when paired via the companion app. I’d say the Neo is almost a second faster than the Vector 3 pedals there.

  67. Laurent Goux

    I just had tacx customer service. All the above issues are known and will be fixed within a matter of weeks.

    • Cato

      By firmware?

    • Cato

      Happy days. Thanks.

    • nunya

      so awesome. can’t wait for black friday to pick up a 2T.

    • Sean

      Given the upcoming firmware update, it seems as though the issues facing the 2T will be resolved. However, that still leaves me in the same position of trying to decide whether I should buy the Neo 2 or 2T. In the long term the $200 discounted prices of the Neo 2 isn’t such a huge deal if the 2T is a better machine.

      At the same time, I’m not the strongest guy in the world, so will the slipping issue that the Neo 2 had (which is gone in the 2T) really appear that often? Are the changes made to the 2T worth spending a few extra dollars now or should I save the money and go for the Neo 2?

    • Thomas

      2T is quieter, is stronger, has native thru axle support – and is the latest and greatest 😉 It is really good and I’d say it’s worth the few extra bugs due to the above. But if that doesn’t matter to you, buy the N2 instead. It is still a very good trainer.

    • Tod

      Heck, buy the neo 1. Remember when neo 2 came out the big selling point was “future features via firmware upgrade”. So far nothing has come out for that, but they have come out with new hardware, so how much effort are they going to be putting into older hardware now?

    • Laurent

      Flllowing up from my earlier post now I have updated the firmware neo is giving me 5W less and sometimes even less than assioma at 280W so I guess the problem was solved and it is to be expected due to different point of measurements. Assioma being always higher as closer to the power input.
      I am happy with it and keep using it (a lot?)

  68. Mibra

    The new Firmware 0.0.31 ist here

    • Fish29

      What’s news ?

    • Thomas

      Here’s a first comparison on wattage with fw 0.0.31. Don’t mind data from 1:30 till finish – I stopped and fiddled with the FDderal. Data is correct, but it got offset a bit. But the data up till 1:30 – check it out – it’s spot on! Really really good wattage on this first ride!

      link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

    • Thomas

      Don’t know why there’s so many drop outs on the Tacx data via ANT+. Quarq data was recorded via BT with TDA.

    • Tofel

      Thank you, Thomas, for sharing this data. My theory is that this is related to the left-right cadence sensor of the NEO 2T. I had similar (much worse actually) dropouts in cadence with 0.0.27, but only in cadence, probably because of my MTB setup. I reached out to Tacx support, they said that they will provide me with special metal plates.

    • Fish29

      The problem of power underestimated is it corrected with the latest firmware?

    • Thomas

      Yes – see my previous post where I compare.

    • Cato

      Funny how there seems to be different answers from Tacx. I was told to contact my local retailer for an exchange of the 2T, for the exact same reasons.

    • Tofel

      Maybe, Cato, that’s because I can eliminate those dropouts completely by using a DIY crank arm extension I built.

    • Cato

      Tofel, Ok. Did you mount the crank arm extension only on the left crank? I tried it myself yesterday after having received the response from Tacx support re contacting local retailer, but it made no difference.

    • Tofel

      Yes, Cato, left only:

    • Cato

      Thanks, Tofel. I can obviously rest assured that it is definitely something wrong with the internals on my 2T and it will have to go back. Sucks to send it back when everything else works as it should.

    • Gary

      Hi Thomas,
      Thanks for the updates along the way and uploading your power data files.
      Out of curiosity is your primary training on TR or Zwift?

      Have you ridden the Kickr or Hammer, I would be interested to hear how you think the 2T feels in comparison?

      I primarily ride TR.

      Thanks

      P.S DCRainmaker can we expect you to be doing a updated ride once your happy with where the Firmware is?

    • Paul

      I’m just looking forward to seeing a few percent boost to my FTP once I update the firmware 😉

    • The firmware isn’t quite out yet to fix the issue. But, Tacx contacted me today with a firmware that should. Hoping to ride it in the next day or two and report back.

      But yeah, definitely a full review coming.

    • Thomas

      Hi Gary,

      I use a custom program. I then ride my sessions in either Zwift or TDA – whatever suits my session best that day.

      I don’t know the Hammer. I had the Kickr18 (with all the issues) but that’s a year ago. So I don’t think it’s fair to compare today.

    • Gary

      Hi Thomas,

      If it is possible to disregard the issues you had with your Kickr…

      The comparison I was after is the ride feel and how well it holds intervals in ERG mode.

      Regards

    • I actually think that with 0.0.31 it over-reports power now compared to Garmin Vector 3 pedals. Most noticeable at low wattages.
      Left/right balance looks better as with 0.0.27 but still different from the Garmin pedals. That’s probably to be expected, though, the Neo has to make some assumptions about power distribution to the pedals. E.g. with one-legged pedaling and slightly pulling in the upstroke, it gives quite some watts to the empty pedal while Garmin really knows it was empty.

    • Thomas

      I have seen a tiny bit of over reporting in the low wattage too. But it’s no more than 3-4w and it’s not every time. As soon as you push a bit harder, I find it really good. In summary, I’d say it’s within +/- 1-2% and that is all good all variables taken into consideration

    • Hi Thomas,

      I’m seeing a difference of up to 10%: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

      This was with different gears in ERG mode. Up to 00:32 I was on the small ring. After switching to the big ring, the difference gets noticeable larger. Around 00:48 I switched to the largest gear (52/11): For the low wattage interval the difference is around 10%, it looks a bit better on the following high intensity interval.
      The rest of the ride was in different gears. The trend seems to be: the larger the gear, the larger the difference at low intensity.

  69. Chris

    Well, I got my Neo 2T on Tuesday… and it crapped out on Wednesday 🙁

    In the middle of a Zwift ride, the resistance shot up to the point where I can barely turn the crank in my easiest gear and all the status LEDs turned off. Now it appears to be stuck that way no matter what I do, and is effectively a paperweight. Off to Garmin support I guess. It was a fun 30 minutes while it worked lol.

    • jim

      Well that really sucks.

      Hope this is not going to be trend but not a good start. The Neo 2T & Saris H3 are on my short list for a new trainer. Ruled out the Kickr due to all the ongoing problems that have been posted.

      Keep us informed on how Garmin/Tacx handle this issue if you can.

    • Ben

      Sorry to hear that Chris. I hope you can get it sorted out quickly. My Neo T2 is arriving today. I’m not usually an ‘early adopter’ so this is a punt for me. I’ve been on a Kickr 2017 which has given me no trouble at all. But…I’m tired of calibrating it and I want the features that the Neo T2 offers that are absent on my iteration of the Kickr – added ride feel, acceleration down hill, cycling dynamics, cadence ‘baked in’.

      I hope the problems are firmware related, although I do wonder whether any units (from any manufacturer) are as durable as the early ones were – such has been the surge in demand in the last couple of years. I had one of the first Kickrs and it was bombproof.

  70. Nick

    Ray – when using smart trainers and from your experience, are there any differences in terms of noise, performance and/or shifting quality between using a Shimano 105, ultegra or Dura Ace cassette and chain?

    As you know with the Neo you need to purchase a cassette so wondered if a 105 cassette is perfectly fine?

    • In general I see slightly more noise from a 105, whereas once I’m on Ultegra/DuraAce it’s negligible. Most of the noise seems to be tied to the quality of the shifting/alignment.

      But we’re talking super-small amounts of difference here, and I’m not sure if I were to scientifically test it with say a dozen cassettes of either type that I’d find the evidence supports my gut feeling.

  71. any update to their pedaling stroke application?

  72. John

    I went against everything you said and ordered it. I’ve noticed that my sram wifli derailleur hits the flywheel on the easiest cog. Attempting to follow the terrible instructions it says place the two washers between the freehub and the unit. But the inner diameter seems too small for the black sleeve in the spindle. Any ideas?

    Also the nut on the end of the QR skewer is bent. I’m not impressed for a premium product!

    • The washers go behind the black thingie. The order is: Neo – washers – black thingie – freehub/cassette.

    • Tofel

      What do you mean when you say that “the nut is bent”?

    • John

      Thank-you very much! That’s done the job! I tried before but it’s caked in grease it wouldn’t come out but I see it slides over the spindle. I’ve got all my gears back!

    • John

      @Tofel – I think it must be by design. After my failed attempt to add the spacers (fixed now thanks to Jürgen) as I was tightening the QR arm I noticed it wasn’t parallel to the chainstays but it looks like it’s got a bit of play in it. I thought it was cross threaded!

  73. Matt

    I recently got the Neo 2T. I had an issue with it overheating and got the unit replaced quickly by Tacx. The new unit works well, but I’ve had an odd experience a couple times where the trainer continues spinning after I get off the bike and walk away. It spins as it would if I were going down a hill in Zwift (freewheeling). In the first instance, I walked away assuming that the trainer was slowly spinning down and would stop in a bit. But, I learned that my son went into the basement near the trainer the following morning and it was still spinning and he unplugged it. Not realizing this happened (my son didn’t tell me at the time), I used the trainer again and it happened again a few days later. I walked away one day after using the trainer and came back the next day and the trainer was still spinning. I got on the bike and used the trainer and it worked fine. After that I unplugged the trainer to prevent it from happening again between sessions.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts on what might cause it or how to resolve it? I’m on the most recent firmware release (.31 I think it is).

    • nunya

      I’m more and more convinced that these trainer companies are hiring second rate software engineers or don’t have any in-house and contract out work, including QA.

    • Nick

      Certainly not normal. My Neo 2 did the same thing but would quickly stop spinning after.

      Do you exit Zwift after stopping, not while you are riding along, right?

    • Thomas

      I have had a few times where my 2T keept rolling for about 2-3 min. Then it stopped. But not tor a whole night.

    • Lukaszpl

      Ok i was going to buy it this week, after reading all these posts i cancel my order ;/
      Will look at Wahoo Core or buy a lot of warm cycling clothes. Both look better invcestment then Neo 2t ;/
      It supposed to be a hi-end trainer, at least the price is high.
      ehhhh

    • Kris

      @matt – I may have the same issue (also Neo 2T, 0.0.31 firmware). I have noticed the trainer keeps spinning after closing the Zwift app. I always disconnect the power supply after using it, so I don’t know how long it would continue to spin.

      Yesterday I also noticed that when I stop pedaling on downhills in Zwift the trainer still reports some power (between 6 and 14 watts, with cadence 0), and the reported amount of power seems to be related to the downhill speed in Zwift / the spinning speed of the trainer. Only when I fully stop on the flat the power is 0 again. Do you have this issue too?

      I also checked the numbers in the Tacx Utility app after quitting Zwift with the trainer still spinning, and the Tacx app also reported some power without input from me. To me both issues seems related to the trainer and not to Zwift. When I disconnect the power supply, and then reconnect it, the spinning stops. I will also report these issues to Tacx.

  74. Dave

    Came to balance the thread with a positive comment here. I bought the 2T and been using it for the last two weeks (300km in so far), I’m a beginner and this is my first smart trainer but I could not be happier.
    There was a brief challenge with installation: I got a 10 speed Shimano 105 casette and it wasn’t clear if both the casette’s own spacer plus the tacx provided spacer should be installed. After some googling decided to put on both – seems fine.
    Updated to firmware 0.0.31.
    Software is great, it’s a nice plug and play experience (OSX, IOS) everything just works out of the box.
    I had no overheating problems in the red range – my peak is currently around 750W, 190 FTP.
    Mainly used Zwift for the trainings so far. In general it’s a very quiet and realistic ride experience and I love my new trainer.
    Question: What tool/device should I use to get left/right balance information?

    • Nick

      I believe you can use the Garmin’s pedalling dynamics on their current Edge units but I’ve not tried or attempted it.

      Also, I’ve cooked my Neo 2 doing hitting 1300+ w and is now with Tacx for repair/replacement so not all good news.

  75. Sleep

    Read through review and all comments, it seems that after near 2 months, the power accuracy issue still remain unresolved?

    I came from kickr 2016, a soild unit, no much complains other than the regular calibration (Honestly, I probably only calibrate once a couple of months), and that’s the key reason I want to move to NEO. I am current on the fence between neo 2 and 2T, since the major reason for me to switch to a NEO is accuracy, I certainly won’t go this router without it.

    I am not sure why Tacx still failed to release a fix after so long (while it sounds like a easy fix which can be done for a day or two), and is it becuase the root cause is actually something to do with the new stronger magnets and improved torque? If so, is there a real fix in the future, or only a “tricky fix\patch” possible because it is more a deep design fault.

    • sleep

      Hi Ray,
      You mentioned that you got a new firmware from Tacx suppose to fix this issue back to Oct. 9, how did that come out? Really look forward to get your full review on 2t, need to decide if I should go Tacx router or go back to get a wahoo kickr core.
      And one more question, did you experience different power reading gap to other power meter in high speed and low speed? It seems a couple of folks reported this not only on 2t but also neo 1&2 as well, did you experience this issue?

    • My latest tests, including this morning, the firmware (which I don’t think is out yet) are pretty good.

      Both in 30×30 tests (which are done at low speeds per TrainerRoad recommendations) and Zwift (a variety of speeds) seem solid accuracy-wise.

      TrainerRoad 30×30’s: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
      Zwift: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

      It’s still a bit aggressive in the 30×30’s (meaning, it’s too powerful), but the 1-second overshoot at the beginning of each set is far better than before.

    • Nick

      Hi Ray

      You can see the Neo 2T is overshooting by about 20w in the 30 x 30 tests, which is around 5%, significantly above Tacx’s 1-2% claim, no?

      Am I right in my assessment that the Kickr doesn’t have this problem? I’ve noticed those on Kickrs produce more linear power when in erg mode than those on the Neo. Have you noticed this too?

    • Thomas

      That looks absolutely OK to me

    • It overshoots the set point by about 20w, but not the power meter accuracy, if that makes sense. And that overshoot is for about 1-second. What’s interesting is you can see how sensitive the Quarq is, as it actually sees my reactive force (power) to that super powerful ERG shift as a higher value. I suspect the Quarq is correct, but at merely 1-second recording rates it’s more of a chance of luck that it ends up that way. I don’t see any point where the actual power numbers between the NEO 2T differ more than a couple watts.

      For KICKR, most people have left ERG mode smoothing ‘on’, which basically fakes the numbers. Same problem on the KICKR bike. It simply tells you what you want to hear, versus actually telling you the measurement. I always turn it off.

      At the moment I’d say the KICKR handles that first 1-second better, but beyond that it’s a wash.

    • The test you have performed 23. of. October is this with a newer firmware version than 0.0.31.?

    • Ahh, sorry, yeah, .31 – I didn’t realize that was pushed out. Good deal.

      The other minor difference is they swapped the unit (to a unit from earlier October), since they changed some aspect of the calibration procedure and didn’t have the baseline data for the unit from back in August.

  76. jb

    i just set up my new Neo2T trainer. did a short ride. the blue light turned off but i hear this humming noise 10 minutes after i got off the trainer. is this normal ? i am on the latest firmware.

  77. Jason

    I have had my Neo 2T for about two weeks now. I placed a pre-order through Clever Training/DCR membership and it shipped out right when they said it would. The 2T replaced a Neo 2 that I resold locally, reason for replacing the 1 year old trainer was the native through axle support and stronger drive mechanism preventing the Neo virtual tire slip. In two weeks time I’ve put about 400 miles on it and the 2T has performed flawlessly for me. I have to be honest I’m not super wrapped up in the over/under wattage issues reported. Before long I will compare it to a separate power source but for now the machine does exactly what I need it to do. The firmware update was simple and I have had no cadence issues and no overheating issues. Unlike an earlier post, I cannot achieve 1300 watts, but I can push 850-900 for a sprint effort and there’s tons of headroom left in the resistance unit for me. Some of the Neo features I enjoy are the road feel and the side to side flex of the unit. The road feel definitely makes me pay attention and wake up a little when it kicks in, and for me it is fun. The flex was a big selling point, and even though it is only a few degrees side to side it makes for a much more comfortable trainer session. Lastly, I have regular need to use the trainer without power so the Tacx Neo was/is the only choice for me there. I have complete faith in Tacx even with the Garmin acquisition and don’t see them ceding territory in the indoor trainer market any time soon.

    • Thomas

      I absolutely agree with you Jason. I also bought the 2T due to native thru-axle support. I had a bit of fiddling with the disc caliber touching the 2T housing. But I got it sovled and since that, my 2T has been flawless and that is for more than 1100 km of indoor training.

      I have done several wattage comparisons with my Quarq Dzero (which is “validated” against other powermeters) and I’m happy to report that with firmware 0.0.31 my N2T is always within +/- 2% and typically spot on! My 2T just works, everytime – I love it.

      I love the side-flex too.

    • nunya

      I’m happy to hear these reports. With the bad experiences being posted, I was getting concerned.

    • John

      Thanks for the comments, Jason and Thomas!
      I’ve been planning to get my first trainer for quite a while. Feature-wise, I’ve felt that the Neo 2T is the trainer I should get, but I’ve been concerned with all the comments about the power accuracy and the other issues others have encountered. I have been hoping that Ray or GPLama would post updates from testing the latest firmware updates to ease my mind before I make such a large purchase. Both of your comments help ease my mind, and I’ll probably make the purchase in the next few days – especially if I see others posting that the New 2T is worth paying the difference over the discounted Neo 2.

    • Thomas

      There’s still a few issues with soldering pearls inside the free wheel. This is what causes this rattling/metal grinding noise.

      There’s also a few over heating issues as well.

      But if you’re lucky and yours is without issue, then you should be all good. Then the N2T is truly great.

      I know Tacx are aware of the issues. So assumeably they’re working on fixes. Maybe DCR knows more about that?

    • Johannes

      Sounds also like these 2 issues could be related as soldering debris could cause the overheating … Anyway i think it’s really annoying that it takes tacx this long to fix this issues and that they do not communicate it more openly!

      I am waiting for the replacement now for 3 weeks and i am starting to get really annoyed as i need a trainer for my winter training…If they don’t get their act together soon they will loose a lot of customers, including me!

    • Nick

      Agree – my faulty Neo 2 has been with Tacx for 2.5 weeks and I still don’t have an answer or an update as to when I’ll get a sorted trainer…

      Wahoo’s customer service on the other hand is far, far superior to Tacx.

    • sleep

      About virtual tire slip, I am not fully understand. Let’s say if I start with 40-50 cadence and apply 4-500w force and keep 5 mins, it will only slip once at beginning or it will keep slip?
      If only slip once, I feel it is not a big deal? no?
      If keep slip, it seems that answer from Tacx is right, quoted below:

      “The explanation here is a simple physics one apparently, and is merely to do with resistances and force applied. The example I was given was that you would get the same slip if you try to push a full cup across a table – initially, nothing happens, and then as you increase pressure, and overcome the early inertia you get a slip, then smooth movement. This is not a failure in the unit, but a characteristic of electromagnets, and physics.”

    • myoda

      I’m in the same boat: cannot comment on the over/under wattage discrepancies since I don’t have another power meter to compare, but otherwise the Neo2T has performed flawlessly.
      Only small problem is that disc callipers slightly touch the Neo2T when bouncing, but I contacted Garmin/Tacx and they will send me a small spacer to correct that.

    • Ross F

      I have the Neo 2.
      The slipping is a non issue in my case. It does not effect my training.
      When the unit slips it is very short and resistance increases very quickly. You don’t keep slipping.

      To make the unit slip momentarily I need to have the flywheel moving very slowly. I then stick it in a high gear and suddenly stomp on the pedals.
      The slip is the time it takes for the electronics to increase the resistance. A split second maybe.
      The Neo 2 is more responsive than my Kickr Core in adjusting resistance, but the Kickr has a heavy flywheel attached via belt that cannot slip IME.
      The downside to that heavy flywheel is it vibrates as it isn’t very well balanced in my unit.

      HTH.

  78. Matt

    So I got my Neo 2T last week and I can not for the life of me understand the Tacx software and how I actually start training with it.
    Are there any guides or videos on getting started with it as there doesn’t seem to be anything useful on the Tacx website. An email to them just told me to log on the ‘Cloud’, which again is totally un-intuitive and has no guides or help files. They also told me to use the Tacx training app, but it doesn’t appear I can use this on my laptop, only on my smartphone, which has a 5″ screen, so is going to be pretty useless.
    So I’m getting pretty fed up and not even pedaled the bloody thing yet!
    Any advice gratefully received.
    Thanks, Matt.

    • Tod

      You don’t have to use any Tacx software (except to update the firmware). Most people with a trainer use Zwift or TrainerRoad. Sufferfest is also popular, there are a lot more options link to dcrainmaker.com

    • mf22433

      On your computer you cannot use the Tacx Training App, you have to use the Tacx Desktop App (TDA).
      I am actually almost exclusively using TDA because I prefer the Tacx films, they are really good.
      Here is a link to the TDA user manual:
      link to tacx.com

  79. Matt

    Ok, so even when I’m not pedalling it’s showing I’m doing 400 or so watts?
    What is going on with this bloody thing?!
    At this rate it will be going back for a refund and I’ll be back on my trusty old rollers.
    Very unimpressed with ‘smart’ trainers so far…

  80. Matt

    So after multiple resets, turning everything off and back on again and multiple attempts to get it to connect to my smartphone I was able to start the Mount Teide training ride.
    Except the video kept dropping out and going to a black screen despite very strong internet signal and the speed was 4km/h at 200watts on a 5% slope. Any ideas what is going on here and how to get the speed working correctly?

  81. Matthew Eastwood

    Thanks. I feel like I need support 🙂
    Cheers.

  82. phil

    Hi Is there an update on the power reading error? firmware update yet or due? Is the Elite drivo 11 now the price has dropped £850 a viable option over the 2T or even the kickr? Thanks

  83. Ron Gurney

    The new 2T has a wider axle making the previous disc extractor tool useless. It also has stronger magnets making it more likely to develop the annoying traditional Neo metallic noise under the disc. The new tool is not yet available in the US. Availability is uncertain at this point.

  84. mf22433

    I just got my Neo 2T today, I see that firmware 0.0.32 is available in the Tacx Utility app.
    Any idea what’s new since 0.0.31 which was fixing the ERG mode ?
    0.0.32 must be quite recent as firmware 0.0.31 is still listed on the Garmin forums as the current one.

    • mf22433

      I read that firmware 0.0.32 fixes issue with the cadence sensor.
      Anyway, after a first 1 hour test, mine works perfectly. I had a Neo 1 before and I find that the 2T give a better, smoother road feel.

    • Mark Put

      The new firmware should solve the cadance problem some of us have.
      I got my neo 2T more than a week ago, and cadance wasn’t reliable at all. I mailed Tacx support, and two days ago they mailed me that the new firmware solved the problem. But it didn’t at all. Instead I got the impression the software now shows the last known cadance number when the signal drops, because my graph now shows a perfectly steady cadance, although I varied slightly and even varied a lot. Sometimes cadance completly disappeared.
      This is a picture off my first ride with 0.0.31 software. I’ll post the short ride with 0.0.32 also.

    • Mark Put

      Here’s the picture of my ride with the latest firmware 0.0.32, which didn’t solve the problem.

      Ray, when you get the chance of doing the indept review of the Neo 2T, please pay attention to this problem. From what I’ve read, the issue might be happening mainly on a bike with a long chainstay. In that case the left foot doesn’t reach the cadance sensor. Some have resolved it by attaching something to elongate the left crank.

    • mf22433

      No problem with cadence in my case. Here is the picture of the 1 hour test I did yesterday. My bike is Pinarello in size 55, the chainstain is 408mm.

    • Yeah, no issues with my ride yesterday on .32 either (or .31) with cadence. Totally normal. I just have a regular non-long derailleur bike.

    • Mark Put

      My bike is a Specialized Epic fully from 2015, 29inch, large, with a chainstay of 448 mm.
      I guess this might make the difference.

    • Jim

      My Domane SL6 has 420mm chainstays. Do you think that will be any problem for the Neo 2T? Not much longer than mf22433’s 408mm.

      I think I’ve decided to go with the Neo 2T when Clever has their sale in the next week or two. Hopefully Tacx will not be excluded this year but with the new ownership I’m not getting my hopes up too much.

    • mf22433

      See the picture below, the position of my crank relative to the base of the 2T (I think the cadence sensor is located at the base of the non drive side of the 2T).

      The length of your crank may play a role as well, mine are 175mm.

      I can imagine that with a chainstay of 448 like Mark’s (4cm longer than mine) it will place the crank further away from the 2T and that could be an issue. A 165mm would again increase the gap by 1cm as compared to my 175mm.

      I understand that Tacx now has a little device to attach to the crank to “extend” it for those who would face this issue which then very much depends on the geometry of your bike.

    • Mark Put

      This is a picture of my pedal relative to the base of the 2T

    • Mark Put

      And this is the solution I use to get a reliable cadance

    • Jim

      Thanks for the pictures guys.

      Mark, I can certainly see why you would have trouble with the cadence. There is a pretty large distance between the sensor and your crank arm. It looks like Tacx should be thinking about tweaking the design a bit since longer chainstays aren’t going to be going away any time soon.

      mf22433, with my 420mm stays and 172.5mm crank arms I would be about 14.5mm in front of where yours is. Hopefully, that will be close enough. If not I guess I can always use something to extend it like Mark or just use my Garmin cadence sensor that is on the crank I guess.

    • Mark PUT

      Tacx support sent me a spacer to solve the problem of the disc brake housing, and a metal piece to elongate my crank arm. Cadance is perfect now, so it wasn’t a software problem.

      Riders who use a bike with a longer chain stay and experience cadance problems, should definitely look at this solution. You can easily fabricate a DIY piece.

  85. Uday C

    I wanted to know if there is an improved feel when you are off the saddle. In the earlier version I would feel that the slip prevented me from staying up too long off the saddle. Is it better in this one?

  86. Darryl Carter

    Any news on firmware updates to the Neo 2T fixing the undervaluing of top end power you mentioned in the test above?
    Thanks

  87. CowRob

    So I must be doing something wrong. I hope…

    I upgraded from a Hammer H2, using a bike with Ultegra 10 speed cassette. The shifting was off. I used the Tacx spacer, and had to re-index the shifting. Nice…

    Then the ride was odd. The H2 felt like the flywheel kinda dragged along at time, like coasting. The 2T didn’t coast at all. The power kept jumping all over the place too. Not huge, I guess, but it was like 20 watts or so at similar cadence. It was also quick to death spiral if the cadence drifted lower, it seemed.

    What settings are there and what should I have set? I was hoping for a ‘deluxe ride’, and out of the gate had issues. Disappointing…

    Thanks for any ideas on what’s happening…

    • CowRob

      Now I heard that the supplied spacer is too thin. Why? Really? WTH!

    • Did you take the full cassette (and spacers) directly off of the H2 and slide it onto the NEO? Or was this a new cassette/arrangement?

    • CowRob

      Just the cassette. Following the directions with the 2T, unless that spacer they have in the bag is not the spacer I need.

      Someone on FB just told me to use the spacer from the H2 AND the Tacx spacer. That seems a little extreme to me, but now I’ve got a freaked out Ultegra rear derailleur, and need to get it back to reality so I can swap wheels for trainer.

      And by ‘coasting’, I meant that the flywheel made up for some irregularities in my cadence. The 2T death spiraled a couple of times as I adjusted myself to the new normal. I generally have a fairly consistent cadence, I thought.

    • Never seen that on coasting on the 2T and I’ve been throwing all sorts of wonky things at it as of late. In fact, I’ve never seen a death spiral on a NEO at all.

    • CowRob

      The power jumped as I slowed my cadence playing with position on the bike. It surprised me. Death spiral is a little harsh possibly…

      And on the spacer, use the H2 spacer AND the Tacx one too?

    • CowRob

      And I just found this ‘tacx faqx’ page.

      So, for Ultegra cassettes, 2mm of spacers have to be installed. It’s not in the manual, and hasn’t been since the Neo 2, possibly the original Neo.

      Sorry I didn’t know that.

      I debated on using my 11 speed Roubaix. I should have done that for sure. I wouldn’t have had any issues with the shifting. DOH!!!

    • CowRob

      I donated all my old 10-speed parts to recycle-a-bike, so it’s off to the LBS to get a spacer.

      You can delete this comment/thread if you want. I’ll get along. I do love the quietness of the 2T. I’ll survive.

    • CowRob

      So I called Garmin. Glad I did.

      They said my 2T is working as it should.

      So, in ERG mode, there is no simulated flywheel. The 2T is holding me to the set point. If I stop pedaling, I have to fight to get it turning again (death spiral) until it’s up to what is required. There is no ‘coasting’ in ERG mode on the 2T. Supposedly it DOES coast in ‘sim mode’. Also, the 2T requires the rider to be in a smaller gear. I rode the H2 in the big ring, towards 18 to 20. The 2T wants me in the small ring, and probably at 5 to 7. That is why it was death spiraling on me. I was trying to slow my cadence down to get the power set point, and it was thinking I was dropping power and demanded more. (I thought that regardless of the input, the 2T should be holding the set point. It seems odd that it demands (asks?) for the input to be within a certain range)

      ALL of this is contrary to how the H2 works. It has a real flywheel, obviously, and that flywheel sometimes makes riding the H2 difficult, but it always works.

      This has been interesting… The assumptions and method of handling the same task/process. The way they handle ERG mode seems wrong, but *shrug*.

      I also need to work on my pedaling, to be smoother, but anyway.

      So this has been a learning experience. I hope my commentary and experience will help someone in the future…

    • Ross F

      Hi CowRob,
      I can’t say I’ve used the H2, so no idea about that comparison. I do own a Kickr and the Neo2 for reference.
      During the middle of a workout on the Neo2 I tried to see if it would coast at different power outputs.
      If you’re only putting out 100-150watts it coasts just fine. Bump that up and the resistance unit stops any coasting pretty quickly. It’s much the same on the Kickr.
      A bit like riding outside on a 30% grade and trying to coast.

      Does the Hammer behave differently to this?

      I’ve found the latest update on the Neo2 noticeably coasts more than the earlier firmware versions. Maybe the 2T behaves differently to the Neo/Neo2?
      (I’d figured the extra coasting at low speed was to limit the virtual slip when stomping on the pedals at low flywheel speeds).

      Gotta love a death spiral. Legs say no then computer says no!
      Spanish Needle rings a bell.

    • CowRob

      Here is a Garmin Connect graph of a ride with the Neo 2T, and the H2. The 2T drives like a fixie spin bike.

      The difference is quite striking. This is the Baxter ride.

    • CowRob

      The H2 graph…

    • Ross F

      Hey CowRob.
      Both those graphs look similar to graphs from the Kickr or the Neo2. Cadence and speed track each other if you stay in the same gear throughout a workout.
      The second graph from the H2 looks like you changed gears early on and then stayed in a higher gear.
      What is the power doing during intervals using erg mode?

      Here’s a similar pic using the same gear for the entire workout.

    • Ross F

      And another pic of the same workout showing power.
      Personally, I’ve found very little difference between the feel of the virtual flywheel and a real flywheel design.
      Have you tried doing the same workout in the same gear on both units? You mention in your earlier comment that you had to run the 2T in a different gear? That doesn’t sound right.

    • CowRob

      I don’t usually change gears in rides. I can ride the H2 for the same TR ride again, and see what it looks like. The only time I change physical gears is when not riding in ERG mode.

    • Ross F

      Hi CowRob,
      Try it and see what happens. The speed and cadence should mirror each other as the reported speed is linked directly to cadence and gear ratio.
      You really shouldn’t have to be pedalling in lower gears on the Neo. I do it because I’m riding XCM and that’s how it feels, but the unit works fine with higher gear ratios.
      There’s a wattage floor on every traine9r that can cause problems in higher gears. That could be causing you to chase power targets through a reduction in cadence?
      No shame in having a lower FTP than the next person. There’s always someone cooler than you. I’m very familiar with having my ass handed to me by a 100kg mate with a lower FTP than me.

      Is it possible that lowering the gearing is causing the low inertia feeling?
      If so, it’s a totally different beast doing workouts at opposite ends of the gearing range. It’ll catch you out if you’re not careful.
      I’m sure if you train in the gearing range you use most outside you’ll get s o me solid results on the 2T.

      I noticed that the H2 has a 20lb flywheel. That’s a big flywheel. Bigger than the Kickr even.
      I’d guess if you’re training for a TT that would be very realistic.

    • CowRob

      Several of the Zwift L’Etape du Tour de France rides require a slow cadence. Zwift actually demands the cadence be below a certain high set point. Trying to get that low on the 2T seemed very slow, and the effort seemed to increase a bit, which didn’t make sense, or make it productive to fight it. I don’t usually ride low cadence as it stresses my knees too much.

      According to the graphs I posted, I expected the ‘speed’ to be more similar between the two as ERG would keep the power close to the set point. I did pull a power graph out of each ride, and the power is remarkably the same except for some high instantaneous spikes on the 2T. Is the speed difference because of the flywheel, which doesn’t make sense to me. Shouldn’t they be largely similar for similar input?

      The changes between the two trainers have me thinking of returning the 2T. It’s so much more *different* than the H2. There seem to be so many little issues with the design/operation of the 2T, to me. I don’t know which one is more realistic, or even better, from a training standpoint, and don’t have much hope that Garmin (Tacx itself still perhaps) will be able, or inclined, to address them, or if they even need to be fixed. Perhaps I was spoiled on the H2. It is my first smart trainer, and I can’t dismiss the idea that it might not be the ‘best trainer’, but seemed to work. I was just having issues with power dropping, and cadence being sketchy at times.

      An issue I discovered with the 2T is that my pain cave floor isn’t level. The 2T has no inherent leveling feature, so I’m using some 1/2″ workbench gripper pucks I got at the local hardware. They actually nailed the height I needed, so far. The frame seems to creak and rock a little more though. (And I wonder if my house is sinking)

      The H2 does have a ‘real’ flywheel. I never noticed it until I was trying to move it. Having no flywheel makes me wonder why the 2T is so heavy. There must be a lot of ballast in it.

      Thanks for your replies. It’s given me a lot to think about.

    • Ross F

      All good. Best of luck getting things dialled in and getting back to your training.
      I’m sure nearly any trainer can give you solid results in that regard. Warts and all.

    • Ross F

      PS. The trainer speed is a made up number based on the flywheel rpm and the imaginary wheel diameter. It’s best not to worry about it in erg mode.
      If you’re doing two identical workouts in erg mode and using the same gearing ratio the speed will only be the same if you hold the same cadence. That’s why both your graphs have different speeds, yet similar power.
      Nothing wrong with either trainer there!

      I typically tend to use a higher cadence as my legs fatigue. It’s totally normal.

  88. Sander

    Have you heard any news regarding FTMS support for Neo 1 and 2?