JUMP TO:

BUY NOW:

  • Clever Training

Hands-On: Tacx’s NEO 2T Smart Trainer With Increased Power

DSC_6034

At Eurobike this year Tacx has announced their latest update to the Tacx Neo Series, with the new 2T trainer. For those not familiar with the Tacx lineup, the Neo series is their top of the line trainer. It’s virtually silent, has an electromagnetic flywheel that allows it to replicate road surfaces (like cobblestones), and is arguably the most powerful trainer out there.

The new NEO 2T essentially takes the Tacx NEO 2 trainer that was announced last fall and gives it more power. It does this through a combination of stronger magnets and tweaks to the magnet topology. The reasons you care about this is that it eliminates the ‘slip’ feeling that the Neo exhibited in the past when hard-sprinting at extremely low speeds. It also means faster ERG mode responsiveness. Way, way, way faster. And now native thru-axle support.

Meanwhile, on the software side, they’re close to releasing a firmware update (which isn’t ready yet) that will bring Cycling Dynamics to not just the NEO 2T, but also the existing NEO 2 trainer. That helps to close the loop a bit on Tacx’s promise last fall to ‘bring undefined new features’ to the Tacx Neo 2 down the road.

Now, I’ve been testing this trainer for a number of weeks. But part of the reason you don’t see a full in-depth review yet is that the firmware simply isn’t final yet (pre-production) – though the hardware is final. I’ll get more into the specifics down later in the post, but ultimately, I’m calling this a ‘hands-on’ look at things, with a full in-depth review to follow once some issues are worked out. In fact, even in the last 5 hours since the official announcement there’s been some tweaks to the firmware.

But again – we’re getting ahead of ourselves. Let’s talk trainer geekery first!

What’s different:

The vast majority of the changes to the Tacx NEO 2T are internal, not external. In fact, the only external change you’ll notice is a new ‘racing stripe’ inset on the back panel of the folding NEO wing. Here you can see it next to the Tacx NEO 1 and Tacx NEO 2:

DSC_6099

But like they teach you in grade school, it’s what’s inside that matters most. And in this case what matters most is magnets. The company has made a pile of changes internally around the magnets. It’s magnet mania. Here’s what’s different inside at a geeky level:

– Stronger Magnets: This gives it the higher torque that eliminates the slip
– Thicker Wiring: This reduces the heat output and improves efficiency
– Changing Wiring Topology: This reduces vibrations but also reduces the sensitivity of manufacturing tolerances
– Skewing of Magnets: This reduces vibrations and sounds
– New Magnet Holder: This helps in manufacturing by increasing position accuracy, but also reduces vibrations

Like I said, it’s magnet mania.

What does that all mean in real-life? Well, we’ll get to that in the First Rides section. But first, let’s look at a graph, since again, geeky. This shows you the braking power of the Tacx NEO 2T versus the NEO2, against your speed. This shows why you could cause ‘slip’ at low speeds on the NEO2 at lower speeds, as it’s more than tripled in those lower scenarios.

image

But beyond all this magnet mania, there’s a few practical considerations. First, it’s quieter. At least in theory, frankly – I can’t tell the difference in my studio. Maybe if I move the whole setup to the podcast recording room with the soundproofing now installed on the walls I’ll be able to hear it.

The other change coming, but not yet in any firmware, is Cycling Dynamics. That’ll give us access to the typical Cycling Dynamics suite of data, though I haven’t tried it yet to see if all the metrics are carried through, or how it stacks up against Garmin Vector 3. After all, those two should match in my mind. So I’m keen to see how that looks. And for that matter, how it might stack up against Favero Assioma and their recent Cycling Dynamics update as well.

Fun testing times ahead for sure!

First NEO 2T Rides:

DSC_5993

When I say ‘first rides’, I mean like, first, second, third, fourth, ninth, tenth, and so on. But before we get there, let’s start with some quick NEO basics – it’s the same here regardless of which model you’re on. The NEO 2T folds out just like the rest of them. Aside from the aforementioned racing strip, you’d never notice the difference between them.

DSC_4668 DSC_4678

Once unfolded you can either plug it in or not. Plugging it in ensures downhill drive (meaning, it’ll spin the flywheel when you go down a hill in apps like Zwift), and also makes it easier to pair with apps since you don’t have to pedal for it to wake up.

DSC_6006

You’ll also need to install a cassette on it. Despite being the most expensive consumer smart trainer on the market, it doesn’t come with one:

DSC_4681

Once that’s all done, toss your bike on it, and you’re good to go. The unit supports both quick-release and thru-axle bikes (natively now!), and includes adapters in-box for both as well:

DSC_6019

Next, you’ll pair it up to your favorite app of choice. In my case, I used both TrainerRoad & Zwift as my main testing platforms. Both will see it enumerate via either ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart, depending on which type of device you’re using.

2019-08-18 10.17.45

With that, you’re ready to pedal and get cookin:

2019-08-18 10.44.18

The first thing past Tacx NEO users will notice is that the slip is gone. If you aren’t familiar with the slip, essentially it meant that if you were going a very slow speed (such as when climbing a really steep hill), and then threw down a sprint effort, it’d feel like the trainer ‘slipped’ for a second. It didn’t last very long, again, about a second or so. And for most people, you might never encounter it. But it was one of those unique Tacx Neo things. Either way, it’s gone now.

That’s largely due to the pile of extra magnets in there, and that also manifests itself in other ways – most notably ERG mode. For example, in TrainerRoad, the shifts in wattage on my 30×30 workouts were astoundingly quick. My usual test workout is ~150w up to ~400w, in 30-second sets back and forth. I do this on all trainer tests. It’s a great way to test responsiveness.

image

(Note: It was overshooting the ERG set point in Sunday’s firmware, that’s supposed to be fixed in today’s firmware.)

And indeed, the Tacx NEO 2T is incredibly responsive. In fact, one might make the argument that it’s actually too responsive, potentially too fast. Most trainers will take between 2-4 seconds to complete that 150w to 400w transaction, or a normal time for your body to adjust. But the NEO 2T delivers that in about 1-1.5 seconds.  Now, I say ‘might’ make the argument, because the firmware isn’t quite final yet and there’s still some tweaks to come and test there. So I’ll hold my final judgment.

Speaking of which, let’s talk about why this isn’t a full review. After all, that was definitely the plan: Hardware was final, and software was looking final too (save the Cycling Dynamics bit, which might have been a later update anyway). Unfortunately, I just couldn’t get power values to match with trusted power meters in my arsenal. I tried a Quarq DZero, Garmin Vector 3, Favero Assioma, and 4iiii Precision Pro. And while the values on the latest firmware were close – they weren’t good enough.

I was consistently getting the Tacx NEO 2T underreporting power by about 4-6% – which is way too much, even despite the drive chain loses. I went through a few more new 2T’s, and in turn they made some tweaks to firmware and calibration machines, and the process repeated itself a few times. But ultimately, even with new tests this morning – I couldn’t get accuracy where I want it.

And more importantly – I just wasn’t on final consumer firmware anymore, which is generally my bar for an in-depth review.

image

Now, it’s very likely they’re gonna sort this out pretty quick. Even just in the last 5 hours since the NEO 2T’s announcement they think they may have cracked the nut on what’s going on. They had engineers spending all day, and frankly, all this past weekend on it. I even met them Saturday afternoon at the factory on my way to Eurobike so they could diagnose not just the trainer, but my bike too, to try and figure it out and if it was something unique to me.

At this point (10PM our time), they think they know what might be going on, and are working on a firmware update to address it. If they can do that, and if I can get some more rides in with various software and it checks out, then I’ll happily release my in-depth review accordingly. It doesn’t sound like they’re shipping products until they sort this out. Which again, could be tomorrow.

I don’t want this to sound negative by the way – I think it’s hugely positive that a company is willing to listen and iterate to the feedback, working quickly to sort out what’s wrong. The best companies do that, and they don’t just pretend it doesn’t exist.

Wrap-Up:

DSC_6030

Assuming Tacx can work out the minor firmware issues – I suspect the NEO 2T will easily firmly implant itself in the usual Neo series location at the top of the trainer pyramid. The stronger magnets have resolved the virtual slip aspects, and atop that, you’ve got Cycling Dynamics coming. This will be the first trainer to support the standard (remember it became a standard a while back). Right now it does though already show power balance between left and right legs, though again, I’ll withhold judgment on that until I get the final firmware.

As far as pricing and availability, it’s essentially the same as the NEO 2, so that’s €1,299/$1,399/£1,199, with availability being pretty close to immediate – they’ve already been building and stockpiling units over the last month. Again, pending the final firmware update piece – which can be done after the fact anyway.

I’m looking forward to getting that and putting it through its paces. As many readers know, most of the time when I’m not testing something I’m using the Tacx NEO 2 as my main trainer. So getting rid of the minor slip issue will be great. Hang tight for that review soon, oh, and thanks for reading!

You can now pre-order the Tacx NEO 2T from Clever Training, which helps support the site. Shipping should be very shortly, and if you use the CT/DCR VIP Program, you can get 10% back in points. Plus of course, free US shipping.

(P.S. – Preemptive before you ask about the Tacx Neo Bike: It’s very plausible they’ll announce shipping has commenced before the end of the week. It’s also plausible they won’t. They’ve already moved containers of units to Garmin’s distribution center in the US (Olathe), as well as have a warehouse ready to send out trucks in Europe to distributors/retailers with units already built. They continue to wait on one last certification before shipping. With the Garmin acquisition, Tacx is subject to a far greater number of certifications globally  – 10 in total – prior to shipping that previously required, including some unanticipated country-specific ones related to the classification of the product from a trainer to a ‘spinning bike’. Apparently one final one is holding up the lot.)

Post a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked.
If you would like a profile picture, simply register at Gravatar, which works here on DCR and across the web.

You can click here to Subscribe without commenting

Add a picture

*

128 Comments

  1. Ihsan

    I was really hoping for their “climb” version. Well, there’s still time till Eurobike.

  2. David E.

    Anything here (or in other Tacx products) reflecting that Tacx is now part of Garmin? I was sort of hoping that we might see some sort of novel integration. Not even sure what that would look like–I’m not a product designer–but you’d think there might be something Garmin could leverage to make Tacx trainers stand out from the crowd. As you’ve discussed previously, we’re approaching the flat of the curve on improvements in power accuracy and noise. . .

  3. Matt

    Amazed that there’s never a mention of bike compatibility. I recently purchased Neo 2 to use for fitness with Trek FX2. Unfortunately crank arm or chain stay length is too long to trigger cadence sensor. Supposedly there’s an extension kit available but never does Tacx mention this anywhere

    • Generally Tacx is pretty good about exact part lists. Have you tried contacting Tacx support and asking for the exact part number?

    • Matt

      I filed ticked with Tacx weeks ago. They are very responsive but couldn’t identify the cause. Lucked on to tacxfaqx.com and Drew Epstein suggested that it might be crank arm chain stay length. I’m just suggesting that Tacx or u point out in requirements and equipment reviews that this is an issue. Saves a user from either buying the equipment or a lot of wasted troubleshooting effort. Your reviews are always spot on

    • Yeah, to be honest, bike compatibility issues are super rare on the Tacx NEO 2 at this point (and most other trainers that have shifted to support longer derailleur cages).

      Tacx does actually have a cutout you can print somewhere on their website for you to double-check compatibility with your frame. Though again, since the switch from NEO1 to NEO2, I haven’t seen any discussion in the comments about people running into issues. In fact, I think you’re the first person.

      The challenge with frame compatibility in general is there are tens of thousands of bikes out there, and even simple component changes can make or break something.

    • Matt

      I suspect most don’t pair a Trek FX2 with this trainer as it’s a fitness bike vs serious road bike. I’ve scoured Tacx website and have never seen the cutout you mentioned. There are more than one of us with the cadence trigger issue, mostly soft vs. Hardware but, we’re out here. If this saves one person the aggravation then it was worth mentioning. Btw, Tacx is making no commitments re extender at this point

    • Ross F

      Hi Ray.
      Thanks for the article. I’m looking forward to the final report.

      The cadence sensor doesn’t work on either of my bikes when fitted to the Neo 2. Scott Spark RC 29er and my Merida hardtail with 27.5 wheels, both with 175mm cranks fitted. Tacx support is aware of the issue and suggested an adapter was on the way. A bent teaspoon tucked into a crank boot works a treat while we wait!

      The problem can be caused by shorter cranks or a longer chain stay. It’s very real on many bike frames out there, but I think most people don’t care much. It’s easy to add an extension or use another cadence sensor.
      I’m sure the sentiment will change rapidly when the cycling dynamics you mention start to become useful.

      Have fun at Eurobike!
      Ross.

    • nunya

      Hmm, this could be a problem for those that want to use the Apple TV with out the companion app or an additional sensor. Tacx supports Boost 148, which is common on mountain bikes, and those have really long chainstays. So, the use of a Trek FX2 with only a 445mm chainstay is really not that long. Touring bikes can have 460mm chainstays (Surly Long Haul Trucker), and mountain bikes can get even longer. I think the random frame I bought for a trainer bike, off craigslist is around 460mm.

      I’ve not heard of this problem before, and it’s a good thing I stumbled across it, when considering a Neo 2T.

      Where on the trainer is the capacitive cadence sensor located?

    • Ross F

      It’s a little bit annoying that I didn’t know about it before purchasing my Neo2. The fix is simple enough in my case and works perfectly. See attached image.
      The cadence sensor is in front of the LEDs that your left foot passes. Behind my teaspoon!

    • This is officially the most hilarious thing I’ve seen today.

  4. Sören Bosse

    Is there any mention of FTMS support? The latest XERT app on iOS only works with it.

    Or have Tacx just silently dropped the issue?

  5. Tyler

    It looks like ordering thru Garmin is delayed 5-8 weeks.
    Is that a purposeful choice because of some other retailer agreements?
    I get a small Garmin discount, so looking for when I may be able to apply it.

    • Garmin always does that to support their retailers first.

      (Fwiw, while you don’t get a discount using the DCR/CT link, you do at least get VIP points back, which is a crapton of points – $130 worth to be exact). 🙂

    • Tyler

      If you have any insights, I’m curious why Garmin does that with some products, and not others.
      For example the Fenix 6 seems to be fully available on the Garmin site from day one.

  6. David W

    Hi Ray,

    How do the electronics of the Tacx Bike compare to the 2T? Does it have the slip issue? It would be a shame to finally get a Tacx Bike and find out that it was a generation behind in capability.

  7. Louis Matherne

    Any chance this will support Wahoo Climb?

    • It could, but Wahoo has backtracked on their previous public promise to support 3rd party companies who wanted to add CLIMB compatibility.

    • Frank-enstein

      I also was wondering this. They’ve formally backtracked? Pshhh.

      In that case, it’s nice to see Garmin not match the pettiness, and for example prevent Wahoo from integrating its radar standard.

    • Gryphon

      Ray, just curious whether the source for this information was publicly released information or just your privileged back-and-forth with Wahoo? And, is this the final word, or is there still hope of opening up the compatibility? Lastly, there seems to be sufficient interest in pairing a Climb with other trainers, so any professional influence you have with them would be welcome! Thank you.

    • Conversations with both sides about it.

      Yet, both Elite and Tacx have designed their latest trainers to be physically capable, should Wahoo change back their mind on it.

      I’ve made my point a few times to them (Wahoo).

    • Ihsan

      So does this potentially mean, if one is so inclined, they can purchase the climb and just manually adjust the slope on the climb remote even though there’s no native control/support from Elite & Tacx line of trainers (since they’re physically capable of supporting climb)?

    • Correct. That’s pretty much always been that way for the most part though.

    • Ihsan

      Oh ok. Didn’t know that.

      I thought the rear axle connections had to be updated if you didn’t want instantaneous carbon explosions from Wahoo’s “even some of our own models are NOT compatible.” statements.

    • Thomas

      I could have sworn that on Neo2 the bike is fixed. I just checked and I can move up and down (with the thru-axle adaptor). But are you certain about that Ray?

    • As always, use at your own risk.

      But you can pretty easily look at it and see if there’s any resistance or not, and if the axle adapter moves with the bike, or if it’s grinding against it. In the case of Wahoo’s past trainers, some of them weren’t even compatibility issues (such as the original SNAP), just marketing reasons as they once admitted.

    • Thomas

      That’s exactly my thought; the axle adaptor. Going from classic QR adaptor to say thru-axle one will notice that the bits are tight fixed to the tacx. No parts can move like they can on the Kickr18 (which I eventually swapped to a Tacx due to issues). I would not dare to use a climb module on the Neo 2…

    • Ross F

      I agree with you Thomas.

      In my case, I use MTB’s on the Neo 2. Even with the suspension locked out you get some movement up and down.

      Over a short period of time the drop outs started creaking loudly. Upon inspection it’s easy to see some (minimal)wear on the bike frame.
      A tiny bit of grease stopped the noise for now. I’ll probably contact support for some washers?

      Tacx really need to come up with something if we’re going to have the bike moving up and down to simulate climbing.

  8. Mike

    I saw GPLama reporting the same power reading issues, I want to upgrade from my Neo 1, think I will wait until the firmware is sorted and the power readings are good.

  9. Michael

    So while you sort of covered the question about frame compatibility, after reading an overview on another site, I am unckear on the issue of thru-axles. So if you have a disc brake frame with 12×142 thru-axle, does that mean the bike can be attached to the Neo 2T with the bikes thru-axle or is Tacx still insisting on users insert adapters into the frames thru-axle holes which some have reported has caused issues with damaging the threaded side?

    • Damon

      I have the same question. I have the Neo2, and not a huge fan of the thru-axle solution (although Tacx support is AWESOME with doing whatever it takes to make your bike work – I just received a custom cone adapter for my Neo2 because there was wobble on my new 2020 Specialized Roubaix – the cone adapter was too long so they sent me one 3-4mm shorter). I’d love to see a pic or get a definitive answer on this one. If you can indeed use a standard 12×142 thru-axle, that would be great news. No need to mess with additional adapters, and I don’t like the piece that screws in to the drive side on the current adapter.

    • With the bikes thru-axle, like most other trainers now days.

  10. Dave

    Thanks for this Ray – the Neo Bike is something I’m very, very interested in seeing. I’m never buying another trainer that I have to remove a wheel for…I just can’t be bothered (and my Specialized pain-in-the-ass weird chain stay Diverge makes it a hassle anyway).

  11. Stuart Brown

    Is it just me or is there a really obvious way to tell the NEO 2T and NEO 2 (and NEO 1) apart:

    The screws on the case on the NEO 2T seem to be black, silver on the other two models.

    • Robert

      NEO1 is all black. NEO 2 has the blue highlights in the base. NEO 2T has the gloss black wide/narrow stripes on the upper rear portion of the base, just under the rear hinge.

  12. Benjamin Pettett

    Would the Cycling Dynamics data come though to GC/Strava when riding on Zwift or do you need to record directly onto a head unit? I ride indoors just on Zwift and just happy to have the ride sync through to Garmin/Strava from the app. Cheers.

  13. DLinLV

    Surprised they do not have a larger alpha and beta test group. No offense Ray but you shouldnt be this involved in their testing power output. This should already be known this close to ship date.

    I love my origin Neo but may sell and buy this once they work out the bugs.

    • dizpark

      I thought about that too . And not just Tacx, many other companies do this too – it seems like they never really test new models, but send them to reviewers and start finetuning from there. Or is this actually the the new ‘de facto’ testing model in this industry?

  14. Thanks for the post. Any improvement to the difference in inertia between ERG and non-ERG modes that is created by the virtual flywheel? The Neo 1 had less in ERG (to me noticeably and making pedaling harder) but it sounds as if the new hardware might improve this?

  15. Andrew

    Does this mean the Neo 2 will be discounted in price?

    • I suspect at some point, like last fall, we’ll probably see them clearance out some older units.

    • Andrew

      Thanks, I’ve been following the “don’t buy a trainer in the summer commandment” written in DCR stone, and saving money for that matter. But now I am torn which Neo 2 to go with… Thanks for all the great content!

  16. tadaka

    Any chance they’re going to have xd-r drive bodies available in the US? I’ve searched around and haven’t found anywhere to buy them. Garmin interestingly doesn’t even have it listed on their site.

    • Tim

      Try asking your local bike shop to order it in? I needed a different (obscure) part from tacx that I couldn’t find anywhere online, but just asking my local bike shop to order it in was easy.

    • Damon

      You can order it directly from the Tacx.com website. I did, and switching to the new xdr free hub to support sram AXS 12 speed was a piece of cake. I’m in the US in North Carolina. They shipped to me, and it didn’t take too long.

    • Bjørn

      Hi, can you tell me how you’ve managed to put the cassette on the XDR body? The flywheel spins if i try to tighten te cassette…

  17. Gary

    Any chance we’ll ever see the Tacx Magnum?

    • It’s already shipping and available. But I don’t plan to review it. Not sure how big the market is for $10K units here.

    • Yes but not in the USA.
      Too difficult to provide the white glove service?

    • No, concerns around US folks falling off and suing because they can’t ride their bike.

      A uniquely American problem. 😉

    • Ihsan

      Surely, you must be joking Mr Maker.

    • Presented as a joke…but the reason is actually the real reason last I checked/asked.

    • Ihsan

      Wow! I know it is beyond many can justify the expenditure, but I would have thought the US market to have been one of their targets…

      Perhaps the whole Garmin acquisition may change it.

      On a more related note, I’m contemplating whether I should buy the 2T, or if I should just keep the dumb wheel-on trainer + Favero Assioma combo. Certainly, the most economical solution is to keep things as they are, but we all know how it goes.

      Even now, during north hemisphere warm season, I’m limited to only two outdoors rides per week, and it definitely won’t get better in the winter. I wonder if controlled resistance would make enough difference on my training to justify the cost. No matter what, I’ll wait for the CT fall sale, I know that 🙂

  18. Dan Aponik

    Typical Garmin business model. Rush the product to market. Expect the public to beta test it. Release numerous firmware fixes. Get it right by the 3rd version.

  19. Sean

    XDR hub support?

  20. fl33tStA

    hope the firmware Update of Neo 2 will come soon, one year waiting for Cycling Dynamics is very weird, as i remind, this was one of the main features for Neo 2 during their marketing presentations?

  21. Jordi Backx

    …. The big 2019/2020 trainer buyer’s guide on the horizon? The days are getting shorter again. 😉

    I’d think the 2T will be accompanied by an updated Flux. And Wahoo will release new Kickr (Pro’s) … not to speak of Elite and the others.

  22. Jari

    Thanks for the review! Will the 2T model be compatible with bikes having R.A.T-axles?

  23. Rai

    Has there been any comment on a Neo 2 upgrade kit? I.E. Can the 2T flywheel be used on the 2 to address some (maybe not all) of the slip issue? I’d imagine there’s a lot of disgruntled Neo 2 owners as a result of this release.

  24. Kari Nieminen

    Hi Ray, Is the firmware updating going to reduce the slip effect of Neo 2.

  25. Nick

    I too would like to know if Tacx will release a 2T flywheel kit or similar for those with Neo 2.

    For the sprinters, the slip effect is hugely frustrating.

    Ray, can you get an answer from a Tacx on this please? Really would be great to know.

    • Kareltje

      I suspect not, as the 2T has different magnets and different placement of the magnets. GPLama filmed at the TACX factory, watch his video and you can see in more detail.

    • Kareltje

      Sorry this was supposed to be a reply to Kari’s comment.

    • Eoc

      Totally agreed. They promised me a fix for it because you get the slip but then no resistance at all and you have to stop your session losing the work already done. Its not what was described when purchased and so they have a legal obligation to fix it.

    • The slip issue has been around since the beginning of time with the Neo. As noted, there isn’t a retrofit kit here, it’s a totally different beast.

  26. Nick

    When I’m working on my neuromuscular power I do standing starts kicking up to 1450w and the slip effect is shocking.

  27. David Sanchez

    Ray,

    Thanks for the review. One question, do you think that. Neo 2 will receive the firmware update to be open to third parties cycle-computers (as wahoo, polar, sigma) in order to see the data of the advanced cycling dynamics? At the current date they updated only for Garmin devices … secondly, do you know if they want to add new firmware for Bluetooth in order to permit that two devices that use BLE could be connected (for example record data in Polar and Tacx software?

    Many thanks

    • Cycling Dynamics is actually an open standard these days. It’s up to other companies to adopt it. Favero has already, on the broadcast side.

      I don’t know of any plans to add secondary Bluetooth sensor connectivity, though, Wahoo is implementing such today via firmware update…

  28. DerLordBs

    What TaxcX NEO trainers are compatible wit the Sram AXS line up.? I got a NEO 1 an I am not sure if a Force Axn would fit. The website said it is not compatible with Red AXS. But I am not sure if it’s also the not compatible with Force AXS

    • Eric Tiffany

      Where did you see that Red AXS is not compatible? You would need a XDR driver body, but the fact that they make that available implies AXS compatibility. I can’t imagine why Red vs Force would be different — they both have approx the same RD cage length and crank setup…

    • DerLordBs

      It was stated at their old support website. TACX is now part of Garmin and I could not find a compatibilty list at the new Garmin site.

  29. Marco

    I would buy a DD trainer if only they came with some sort of construction/quick-release to swap different cassettes quickly! The girl is using 10 speed campa and I use 11 speed shimano. We’re using the same trainer due too space issues and are now forced to a wheel-on trainer 🙁

  30. fisao

    I am still rocking( haha) the Tacx Neo 1, and so far, I have seen very little incentive to upgrade between their models. I guess that is a good news/bad news situation.

    Now, please, please, please, give us a great trainer bike product TACX!

  31. Audun

    Do the Wahoo Kickr/Kickr Core also have these slipping issues at low speed? Meaning this is another reason to choose a Tacx Neo 2T over a Wahoo Kickr (Core)?

    • kwemple

      i have a Kickr that is a few years old and do not have any slippage issues. I tried a Neo last year but returned it after trying a few climbs.

  32. James Brown

    I wonder if the Neo smart bike will also have the new 2T internals or if its still based on the Neo 2

  33. Eoc

    “Which part of the public beta tested this?
    By and large people are pretty happy with the Tacx 1 & 2 units out there.”

    I can only speak for myself and I have had this slipping issue since the first day. I lodged 3 complaints and was told in June a fix would come in September. So i fully expect a fix or a full refund.

  34. Joakim

    Will this really fix the virtual tire slip issue, or will it just slightly move the point at which it will occur? (I mean according to the specs, the motor doesn’t seem to be that much stronger?)

    • It fixes it (both on paper, and in my testing). The chart/graph shows it’s not just barely moving it. You’d have to put out massive power to override it.

      I certainly can’t come anywhere even close to achieving that power to make it slip.

    • fl33tStA

      Hi Ray,

      is it possible to aks how support is handled in the future and of course today, seems Tacx homepage isn’t up to date and the Garmin sites aren’t up to date too?

      Tacx Training Software will get updates too, or no changes nor new things?

      cheers
      fl33tStA

      THX for the great Live Ticker!

    • Joakim

      Ok sounds great. Heard that the release date is Jan 2020 though, atleast here in Sweden. So currently considering if I should sent the neo 2 that I ordered and if it’s worth the wait.

  35. Stephan van Sint Fiet

    Would love to get one of these, but I ride quick release bikes while my wife rides a thru axle bike. Switching between the two seems easier on the Kickr than on the Tacx, plus some people seem to find it challenging to fit their disc brakes next to the body of the NEO. Any thoughts on this?

  36. Paul

    Tacx have just agreed to replace my faulty Flux2 with a Neo2 under warranty, I guess this release is why they are now happily shifting the older units as warranty replacements. I’ll see if they’ll send me a 2T instead, but I doubt it…

    • Thomas

      I have a warrenty case with my 2. Neo2. I asked whether to get the new one – me willingly paying extra for it – but they said no… 🙁

    • Paul

      My replacement arrived and I was very surprised to get a 2T, when they had told me I could only upgrade to a 2. Don’t know if I just got a lucky mistake from the warehouse or it was intentional.
      Fingers crossed for you.

  37. Alex

    Hi Ray,

    I have a thru-axle bike (Canyon Ultimate) and am hesitant between the Neo 2 (at 1099€ with Mantel in the EU) or the 2T (higher price point but direct thru-axle compatibility). What would you choose?

    Thanks,
    Alex

  38. Fish

    Here’s the question… is the new Smart Bike using these 2T internals or the previous 2 internals?

  39. Greg

    I got a Neo 2, and tried my first Level mode power test on it (Sufferfest Full Frontal) and had huge problems with “slip.” I had to quit my test. I’ve had zero problems over a about a month of Erg mode workouts.

    Is there something weird about Level mode on this trainer? The slip occurred over a wide range of power/torque/cadence. From 100W to 400W 50-100RPM.

  40. Pete

    Wait for Tacx Neo 2T
    or
    buy Wahoo Kickr Core + Kickr Climb (now with cadence support and BT)

    My first smart trainer.
    I would appreciate the help.

    P.S.
    No need for cobblestone feel. 🙂

    • Jcg

      I started with a 1st gen Neo, and then moved to a KICKR + Climb this past December. For me, the ability to ride the hilly routes on Zwift with my position moving to a true climbing position was the most important feature to make my training more realistic. Pretending to ride hills with the bile in a static position is not the same. Ask any Dutch rider who trains on pancake flat roads. I’ve had that experience years ago.
      I’ve used both and prefer the addition of the Climb.

    • Pete

      Thank you for the advice.

      I am also attracted to the Climb as I live in the Alps and would like to have the riding position feel over the winter.

      I also own pair of Assioma powermeter pedals and would like the power output similarity with the Kickr Core.

      So I guess the only issue would be the need for calibration and stuff but I don’t mind.

      Not really sure if the cadence transmission works ok now with the SW update or not.

    • Ross Foulkes

      How does the Climb help you get better at climbing hills?
      That seems like a ridiculous claim.
      Any of the erg trainers on the market can do that by pushing you over your threshold for extended periods. Even my old fluid trainer can do this.
      I’d say it’s harder to stay comfortable on the very static Kickr vs the Neo that flexes.

    • On one hand I agree, there isn’t in theory a difference from a wattage/incline standpoint.As you noted, any trainer can do that.

      But there is a difference from a position perspective. You’re pushed back on the saddle, and that’s going to engage different muscles. Hugely? Unlikely (Wahoo says there’s some study around it, but it seems somewhat limited).

      I think if one flips the equation around though and asks instead: If training for a long climb would it be better to mimic a climb, or better to mimic flat ground – I think everyone would realistically say ‘mimic a climb’. Even from a mental standpoint there’s undoubtedly something there.

      As for flex – one interesting tidbit is that both solutions flex, but in different ways. In the case of the NEO you get more flex under your seat (but really, it’s pretty small). However, in the case of the KICKR/CLIMB you actually get some subtle rotational flex because the CLIMB unit rotates slightly left/right if you press on it (just as the NEO does in the back). I’m not sure either are huge deals, but worthwhile noting.

    • Thomas

      Not all are equally impacted going uphill. So if training on flat grounds, then some will feel the difference on a climb a lot while others (like myself) are not very much affected.

    • Ross F

      Fair play Ray. I don’t own a Climb unit so have nothing to compare to.

    • Thomas

      I have had the Kickr18 with a climb module. But swapped it to a Neo2. I think the Neo2 is quite a bit comfier to ride compared to Kickr. The Kickr is a harsh ride. The climb module did not change that a lot for me. Just saying…

    • Pete

      Oh waw, now I’m lost again.
      Haha.

    • Thomas

      If you live in the Alps, buy a climb module. It’s fun nonetheless 😉

  41. Thomas

    FWIW: My Neo2T has currently shipped (ordered at Tacx website). So they’re shippping right now…

    • mo

      woo hoo! I guess i should just order then

    • …doesn’t mean the accuracy issues that both myself and Lama are waiting on are fixed.

    • Robert

      any information about upcoming firmware update?

    • We got a note today saying they’re getting close on one, with a bunch of detail around what they’ve found. They expect to have that update ready on Monday.

    • Thomas

      Great news! I’m getting mine on Monday. I’ll report back my findings (compared to a Quarq).

    • Robert

      Bielieve It , when I see It

    • Robert

      Can you share any updates about firmware ?
      I wont buy 2T before they fixed accurance issues

    • Thomas

      I got my N2T yester (on Monday 17th.) and currently I’m running firmware 0.0.27. I believe my old N2 was running the same firmware version. So I think it’s not the new firmware? @Ray can you comment on that?

      I have had two rides on my N2T. Both with a lot of testing. My initial input on accuracy is – it varies. I have riden ERG-mode with 30s @ 700W with less than 1% difference (Quarq vs Neo). But then later that day I did a SIM-mode with 5% too little from Neo.

      So if I should give a very initial and short summary, I’d say accuracy is between 0-5% less than Quarq. It’s not bad, but definitely needs to improve.

      I hope the next firmware fixes that. Any news on that Ray?

    • Hi Guys-

      I don’t have any updates yet on firmware, it hasn’t been released yet. I think they’re close, as we’ve been chatting about other topics, but nothing yet on this one.

      I wouldn’t surprise me if I see an update later today.

      Cheers.

  42. JCG

    Not a ridiculous claim at all. When I was an amateur racing in Italy during late 80’s and 90’s I lived in Bologna, where part of the city is pancake flat, extending to the Po Valley, that is miles of pancake flat roads. While to the south we had amazing hills. I’ve had real life training experiences with top riders on how to train. No one trains on flat roads to ride up a hill. Big gear, low cadence, is still riding a flat road. Riding your bike in a horizontal position stresses your muscles in slightly different way than when your on an incline. Shifting your weight to back of the saddle changes how you pedal up hill. I’ve been riding trainers for almost 30 years now. Yes, you can build strength in a static position, but riding on undulating roads with long climbs is not static. Now that I have an opportunity to properly simulate a proper riding position, I’ll take it.

    • Ross F

      Hi JCG. If it works for you, that’s great. I’ll take note and take that on board.
      Personally, I’ve found lower cadence drills in lower gears give the best results for hill training, but I can see the merit in changing the angle of attack also. On the trainers in erg mode at least.
      I’ll happily throw some books under the front wheel for the mornings intervals to see if it makes a difference.
      Admittedly, I can ride hilly terrain right outside my door all year round, so I’m probably already doing the work outdoors.

      Sorry if my comment came across as a personal attack. Written words can come across that way when trying to keep things short.

  43. Peter Balog

    Hi, Ray.
    I have read the reviews of Kickr Core and NE2t extensively.
    I am wondering witch one to get? I have a Bushido that is a good trainer but I want to upragde to a direct drive, both because of that they are more silent and that I don´t want to change to trainer tire. I tried to leave the regular tire on now, but last workout the tire overheated I thnink. It got all sticky. 
    Now I read the Neo 2t and I get even more confused. If I Choose between Neo2 and 2t, should I pot for the newer one? But then I don´t think I have the budget anymore, cause I found the Neo2 like 280 Euro cheaper than the 2t.
    So i´m back I think to choose between NEO2 and Core (maybe with a Climb) ?
    Is the Climb any more than just gimmick? If I don’t get the climb total cost is cheaper, but it could be nice to simulate uphill.? 
    I feel that the while the Neo doesn’t seem to need calibration, that’s nice. I don’t have power meters and such stuff so it would be nice to have accuracy. Not sure how often you need to calibrate the Core and if its tedious? Read somewhere her I think that in the future climb will be compatible with Neo?
    What should one choose ?

    • nunya

      Some things to note:

      1) The climb doesn’t work in ERG mode. So, if you only do workouts and don’t free-ride Zwift, the Climb is not worth the investment.
      2) Kickr 2018 has some noise issues. Ray has a video on it, but the fixes from the factory are not always performed correctly and you get continuing issues.
      3) Kickr should be calibrated every week or 2 weeks of usage.

    • Peter Balog

      After a couple of days thinking i want the Neo 2.
      However is the Neo 2 T worth the extra money,?
      I should think that the Neo2 is still pretty good for about 270 dollars less

  44. Paul

    As of 17th September with Zwift with firmware 0.0.27 and Zwift 1.0.39812 the road feel doesn’t work, as Zwift doesn’t recognise the Neo2T as being a Neo if you connect using ANT+. Apparently works fine over Bluetooth. Tacx are aware, hopefully it should be a simple fix but I think it needs to come from the Zwift side.

  45. Thomas

    A quick headsup on my 3. run on the N2T. So far – I’m quite happy with it. Accuracy is almost there; I’m seeing an offset vary from 3-10W. That is not much and one could say it is ok. But thing is, I see 5W error on a 1000W sprint! But then again, I see 10W off on a 2min interval @ 350W…?! So IT IS GOOD – but still needs a bit on finetuning, if you ask me…

    Check out my data here: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com

    BTW – Z.E.R.O tireslip on my 10s 1kW intervals. The two first one was starting at 50 rpm. The next two about 75 rpm. This is really great.

    I’m still in dialog with TACX about some kind of spacer on the NDS. Issues is that my Tarmac disc caliber touches the N2T housing. For now I have solved it with an extra spacer between the frame and the N2T adaptor. But that seems like a cheap solution. I’m awaiting Tacx’ input…

    Oh gotta mention the noise level. It is true. The N2T IS really quiet. So I hope the next firmware will fix the last wattage finetuning and then I think we have the perfect trainer. I really think the N2T has that potential…