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Hopefully we will hear something about the Kickr Climb…. one day.
I wonder if Wahoo is rethinking the Climb. Maybe some kind of rocker plate trainer. The Climb has been on hold so long it seems like they are equivicating on it.
Nope, it’s coming… A lot later than expected, but it’s coming.
Got an email from Wahoo earlier this week they ‘officially’ opened pre-orders. Albeit, on a very limited basis, but they accepted pre-orders.
My guess is one of those 7/06 ‘In-depth Reviews’ will be for the climb… Or perhaps that’s just my wishful thinking.
Kinetic is rumored to have a direct drive offshoot of their rock and roll.
I wonder if the Edge 1030 will get Galileo.
i hope this means the 935xt will get galileo too (i think its the same hardware as the F5)
i’ve been seeing issue with tracking on my 935 which i upgraded to because i was getting poor tracking on my 920 :(
I’m also a 935 owner hoping it gets it. I haven’t seen any major tracking issues that I can remember at the moment, but I always having new toys to play with.
Crossing my fingers that the 935 gets this and it helps. The 935 works great in all conditions except the trails where it is significantly worse than my old 910xt
And it is available! Just updated my 935, and possible to select GPS + GALILEO now.
I’m getting a 404 with all three of the Garmin Fenix 5 beta links.
After finding the link for the F5 at link to www8.garmin.com, I gave it a whirl. Did the folder drop thing, installed, connected to Garmin Express for the GPS update, then it appeared as an option within the individual activity.
Feeling even better about buying the F5 at $100 off a couple weeks before the Plus announcement!
Copy/paste foul ball. Fixed!
Hey Ray. Powerpod and MTB? I see they’ve got a new calibration for this. Any good?
We have a lot of users using PowerPod on MTB.
So glad PowerPod lowered prices. Now I can add power to my Zwift setup
Ha!!!! That’s really funny. :) (I’m a fan of subtle humor.)
And my 5x just died a day ago going into continuous restart at night. Hard Reset, drive mode with USB cable – nothing worked. Pretty upset with Garmin over the last 5-6 years, as is not the first time.
Are there any alternatives, besides suunto and polar? Anything new I might have missed.
Besides the usual suspects there’s nothing else out there in that segment. Which explains the absurd prices for the new Plus editions…
Haha it almost sounds like a real job for a change!
I hope one of those blanks is a new Polar high end watch. I won’t buy one, but they were my first, second, third and fourth sports watch (one of which actually had GPS!) so it makes me feel sad seeing them dropping out of the running over the last few years. Hopefully Wahoo will take thier place to offer Garmin a little competition though, I get the feeling Garmin don’t see Suunto as a threat. With the 5 plus pricing we’re in desperate need for competition more than ever!
That’s a lot of new smart trainers/rollers/accessories at Eurobike.
This is a very good sign from Garmin that they value their customers. If they enable feature parity across the F5/F5 plus line where the hardware support exists, that will do a lot for customer good will.
Getting the smart notifications would be a good sign that Garmin really values their existing Fenix customer good-will but I have notifications turned off, so it would not affect me. I would, however, be super-pleased if the ClimbPro feature came to the 5X or even just the continuous calibration of the barometric altimeter against the DEM elevations in the cartography data. The altimeter drift is one of the weakest points of the f5x.
It is fascinating that the *new* GPS firmware that enables Galileo is v2.20 and the *current* is v4.30 (and some people seem to have v4.40). That is a major versioning disconnect. I wonder what the version number for the Display, WiFi, Sensor Hub (BLE/ANT/SNS), and WHR are in the Fenix 5 plus series? Maybe the new GPS driver came from the f5 plus series development effort and now they are aligning the software stacks across those two lines where the hardware is actually the same.
My FR935 is on GPS v4.40 … i did nothing special to get it.
(firmware 9.1, wifi2.4, ciq 2.4.4 ble6.2)
Fenix 5X:
– system 9.20
– GPS: 4.30
– Display: 2.80
– WiFi: 2.40
– CIQ: 2.4.4
– BLE/ANT/SNS (sensor hub): 6.20
– WHR: 20.03.31
No matter how you slice it GPS 2.20 < 4.30 or 4.40, which means something. Normally these version numbers are monotonically incrementing. In general software engineering release practice major version numbers incrementing when there are major features or breaking API changes and minor version numbers are generally bug fixes / performance improvements.
Inerestingly,, my wife has GPS 4.40 on her Fenix 5S.
yep @brian. agreed
interestingly i’ve just done an hour run with the 4.4 GPS stuff in fairly tricky gps conditions and the 935 looks pretty good. Better than i’d have normally expected AND I wore it on the underside of my arm (for a variety of reasons i won’t go into)
also it seemed to get some GPS track parts ‘correct’ where gps reception was impossible. perhaps there is a NEW FusedTrackesque thing going on with the Garmin accelerometer??? DCR might know.
so maybe, just maybe, it’s made regular gps better?
dont get excited. i’m probably imagining it at this stage. but other readers just might want to have a little look…just in case.
The 4.40 to 2.20 “downgrade” seems weird until you realize that Fenix 5 plus line ships with GPS v2.20. I think they basically broke continuity to bring these two in alignment. In other words, it would seem that what they did is they took GPS firmware for Fenix 5 plus and used it for 5. Which might indicate they actually use same/close enough chipset to run on the same firmware. Which might be even better news since then Fenix 5 can profit from any updates done for 5 plus GPS.
Also liking the heart rate monitoring in the beta, lets hope both come to the 935!!
Added abnormal heart rate alerts. Enable these in Heart Rate widget > Heart Rate options > Abnormal HR alert. An abnormal heart rate will be detected if your heart rate exceeds the entered threshold for an extended period of time while sedentary.
Does this work the way I think it works? In that if your lowest recorded RHR for the day is higher than ___ for 2 or 3 days in a row, it alerts you?
When I monitor it closely, I’ve noticed that EVERY time that happens, I’m about to get sick. If I’m monitoring it closely I’m even able to act proactively, but otherwise it’s usually too late to act. Getting a notification would a godsend…
I’ve not seen it but I think it’ll be more like alert if your HR is > 120 bpm when sedentary rather that RHR alerting.
Someone’s going to be busy :)))))))
No joke, he won’t have enough time to retrofit the new industrial DCR cave. Got to love the fact he is working from an Excel sheet. Wonder what the other list from The Girl looks like.
Hi Ray,
have you heard anything about FR935 and Edge 1030 getting Galileo as well?
Excited for what else is to come
Thanks
Tim
Im very looking forward to see a garmin 820 update since this unit had quite a lot of flaw or bad reputation and also kind of near the end cycle
What about the Forerunner 935, since it is basically a less rugged and lighter version of the Fenix 5?
Will also the FR35 (without 9) have Galileo? I’m also a Garmin customer :-)
Also hoping to get the Galileo update on the 935. Come on Garmin!!
I did not connect to Garmin Express and was still able to get the Galileo update.
On the 5x, after disconnecting from the computer and restarting the device, I went to:
Menu
Settings
System
Software Update
And it was able to pull the GPS update (also have the watch connected to WiFi)
Do I understand correctly that with PowerPod Lite there is no access to all the useful weather/environment data it measures and no ability to fine tune it with Isaac software? Well, that doesn’t sound very useful.
My real question is how the powerpod lite is going to handle different bikes if it doesn’t have access to Isaac. On the regular powerpod it seems like you could just set up speed sensors on a couple of bikes and move the pod, have it recognize the sensor on the new bike, and go from there. With only one profile on the new powerpod moving to a different bike will also require editing the weight etc in isaac, except that Ray’s table above implies you don’t have isaac access. Am I thinking about this wrong…?
That’s my understanding, I’ll ask the PowerPod folks to confirm here (they e-mailed a few hours ago on something else). The chart as noted is directly from their page.
You can fine tune PowerPod Lite with Isaac software.
Some cyclists love the environmental data PowerPod measures, some…not so much. PowerPod Lite provides the same both-leg power measurement of every other power meter.
If you have a PowerPod Lite, a firmware upgrade will add some, to all, of the capabilities of its “big-brother” variants.
PowerPod Lite has full Isaac access for profile creation, customization, and selection.
You can store as many profiles in Isaac as you wish, for all your different bikes. To use them, you’ll select the profile you want in Isaac for today’s ride, then transfer it to PowerPod Lite.
Thanks John, thats great followup, almost certainly getting one soon…
Second line on that PowerPod chart should technically read combined “left and right leg power”?
Agreed. We normally use the short hand phrase “both-leg power” which, of course, is the “combined left-and-right leg power.” We will update the chart.
Just loaded the Garmin Fenix 9.53 beta update. I was able to move the files where they needed to be on my MacBook even though the installation instructions only mentions “IBM compatible…” On the watch, I did end up having to push both the light and down buttons (like a hard reboot) to proceed with the install.
Why cant F5x non plus not get music update? Plenty of memory available
That doesn’t necessarily mean it has everything necessary. There is likely a hardware decoder for mp3, AAC/mp4 to do efficient low-power playback that may or may not exist in the 5x.
I think it is fair enough to have the “plus” SKU mean NFC payment and music. I am pleased to see the Galileo support added to the original 5 series and would be very pleased to see continuous calibration of the barometric sensor against the TOPO map data and ClimbPro added to the 5x.
Beacuse it needs a stronger/better BT to continiously broadcast music. One of the upgrades to ‘+’ models is a ‘better’ BT meant for music connectivity.
Any expected announcements re power meters at Eurobike? Thinking of grabbing some Assioma’s but may wait if there’s stuff coming down the pipe.
There’s been some discussion around the Garmin forums regarding the use of Galileo in the US. It seems that the government wants anyone who wants to do any sort of GNSS system they have to jump through some hoops to get approval or it can’t be made available to areas within the US.
It would appear that some cell phones that already have Galileo support turn it off when the phone knows it’s in the States to avoid this issue. Do you know how Garmin is handling this?
Hey All-
A number of you asked about other Garmin devices, including the FR935, and whether or not they too would be getting Galileo support. I went back to Garmin and got the full list of planned device updates (these will/are be merely software updates, it won’t require new hardware or anything).
Galileo support is scheduled to be in the FR935 release planned for this Wednesday, June 27 as a production release (not beta like the Fenix 5 release was).
Additionally, the following other Fitness/Outdoors devices over the last year or so (basically, newer GPS chipsets), will also be getting Galileo support (no specific timeframes yet):
• Forerunner 645/Forerunner 645 Music
• Vivoactive 3
• Vivoactive 3 Music
• Edge 820
• Edge 520 Plus
• Edge 1030
Cheers.
That’s awesome!! Thanks for sharing. Has anybody seen improvements related to instante pace with the new beta update the enables Galileo on the Fenix 5??
Fantastic! Thanks for finding out about this!
Is it a big thing, the Galileo support? Will it perform better or is it just good to have more options?
Fascinating that the FR935 team goes once more into the breach with production firmware rollout while the fēnix team is in beta with the same feature on very similar hardware. I have the distinct impression that the fēnix team is has grown more cautious in 2018.
What newer chipsets did you mention? F935 have v.4.40 gps chipset M5(1621), the same version has founded in F645. It is Mediatek3333?
Garmin generally doesn’t discuss/release specific chipset versions these days. Instead, as noted above it lists the actual units being updated.
I know that. F5, F935, F645 share the same GPS chipset firmware M5 (1621), now v.4.40: link to www8.garmin.com. Just see on System of watch. Version M5 (2957) io don’t know which devices have this firmware: link to www8.garmin.com
Brian – One minor thing to remember is that last Monday was the culmination of close to a year of work for the Fenix 5+ team. In other words: My guess is that they were busy getting that newer product out the door, versus focusing on the previous units (logical for any company trying to get a new product out the door). Most folks at Garmin in that division would have been wearing daily the F5+ series to try and catch/fix any last minute bugs.
Thus, after Monday, attention turned (a bit anyway) to getting other editions up to date. Whereas the Forerunner division could have been focusing on that a while.
While the company now shares code between divisions, they are still very much separate divisions. In talking to Garmin yesterday about the Galileo thing, apparently it’s been in the works for a really long time for a lot of products. Just sorta where it landed when all their internal testing was finally green to go more public.
:) thank you!
I would love a peek into Garmin’s source control management. I’ve always wondered if they share common code and libraries among devices. With tools like Git and NuGet, you would think this would be a no brainer for them.
I understand that the Forerunner is a separate division from Outdoor (or something) but that seems like a weird historical artifact that doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me today. It’s beyond me why they would have more than one division making wearables that essentially compete with each other but are supposed to share resources. It doesn’t seem like a good alignment of incentives and is a bit worrisome.
What division(s) are responsible for the more sport-specific watches derived from the fenix: Quatix, Tactix, D2, and Descent?
Those watches are all part of the Outdoor division (same as Fenix). Well, I’m not sure who technically owns the D2 actually, but the others are Outdoor.
Part of the big reason is revenue distribution. By separating it they can obscure revenue lines a bit better from an investor standpoint.
To be clear, those divisions work very closely together, and are ‘owned’ by a single person on an org chart. But ultimately, in any product you need to have a line in the sand as to who owns a product when you get low enough down the org chart. Just like how in Microsoft, Server and consumer versions are windows all have the same codebase* – but eventually you find the split in divisions and how those divisions are managed.
(*super over simplification)
That sounds about like I thought. The premise being essentially to obscure the balance sheet doesn’t tend to inspire a lot of confidence. ?
Funny. Microsoft is often used by business analysts as a dysfunctional divisional organization — at least pre-Satya. There is a cartoon org chart that shows all of the divisions holding a gun to all of the other divisions. ?
I don’t think the premise started off that way. After all, the Fenix lineup started off on its own back in the day (F1), with the functionality and nuances generally identical to that of the handheld lineup (for better or worse). It was a few years until they got where they are today.
But, around the same time is when I think someone got smart and realized it allowed them to show growing profits in the ‘Outdoor’ division (one of the 5 major official Garmin divisions: PND/Auto, Marine, Aviation, Fitness, Outdoor). Just like VIRB quietly moved over to PND/Auto a year or two back. That made it more even compared to it just being only Fitness that was growing like crazy.
Side note you may not realize: I worked at MSFT for a a dozen years before finally making DCR my full time job. Not all cartoons are accurate, though, some are. I think in general most people simplify Microsoft far too much. They know Windows, Office, and Xbox (and maybe have seen a paid Surface ad in a TV show), but fail to realize just how many other products (software) are made (or, have to be supported for a decade or longer). Especially in the enterprise space. It’s mind-boggling how many products. I’d bet that no Microsoft employee could name them all – or even get 50% of all actively ‘shipped’ products. Hundreds and hundreds of them, many components you’ve never heard of in your life and never will have a use for. But likely powers billion dollar business every day.
> I worked at MSFT for a a dozen years before finally making DCR my full time job.
I actually did know that you worked for Microsoft, but I didn’t realize it was quite so long. Counting on my fingers and toes means you are older than you look. Well done. ?
I still think there is something questionable about the divisional structure at Garmin where the Forerunner and Fenix wearables are in different *divisions*. The watches depend on pieces first released across divisions. The FR935 is essentially identical except for the case to the F5.
History aside, the current situation of having the “high end” watch case SKUs being in the Outdoor division and the others being the Fitness division is perverse.
Other than the Descent, there seems to be zero reason for the other derivative brand SKUs of the fenix series to exist. The quatix and tactix are literally just different colors, watch faces, and default widget configuration. The D2 is a little bit more of a fork of the OS, but that sucks if you are a D2 Charlie owner hoping to get the new f5 features that keep rolling out. The main purpose of these SKUs seems to be attempting to identify market segments that can drive up the ASP with a minimum of differentiation. That said, the D2 Charlie and Descent Mk1 do have cooler bezel designs.
Sorry… starting to ramble on there.
I’ve connected my 935 to Garmin Express and it’s still saying the latest firmware version is 9.2. Nothing about 9.6. Is this a rolling release?
Same here. Still waiting for the updated.
How about BeiDou support on EDGE1030???
How about BeiDou support on EDGE1030???
MTK chip support, bun no any China regional firmware with it! (((
Wow, is anyone else shocked the 2 year old (and often panned) Edge 820 is getting Galileo? My Garmin arsenal of the 820 and 935 seems reaffirmed as the best options out there – most of the bugs worked out and getting the key features for sport. Thanks Ray for getting the confirmations.
Agreed ! I have the same setup and so far delighted.
My 820 is couple years old I think, and my 935 about 6 months (as replacement for Fenix 3 that I found too heavy).
Yep came here to post this. Really surprise at the 820 getting Galileo.
Great that garmin have enabled it but after a few runs I’m seeing zero difference between gps+glonass and gps+galileo on an F5x Sometimes tracks are good and sometimes tracks wander a bit
on the 5x try using the Mapp application – you find yourself wandering across roads and rivers just the same.
I’m in the uk if it makes any difference – varied terrain – open fields and woods etc.
I’m a bit disappointed seeing that the Edge 520 which is hardware-wise the same as the 520 Plus will not get Galileo support.
you’re assuming it’s the same hardware-wise (apart from the extra storage – so it’s obviously NOT the same hardware-wise) – but that’s just a guess. It’s entirely possible/probable that they use a different GPS chipset in the plus as they have been in all recent devices.
FWIW I’ve never had a problem with satellite lock on ANY of the edge series, although that’s mainly road cycling. I have had problems with various forerunner/fenix devices, but as I mentioned in another reply I’ve not seen any improvement or change with Galileo
TLDR: – I wouldn’t worry too much about galileo support in the edge series
You may be right, but above all it also shows that Garmin is giving away the Edge 520 in terms of update…
I know you don’t generally cover the outdoor devices from garmin like the etrex and/or the Oregons, but do you happen to know if they’ll be getting the Galileo support? After all they’re outdoor devices and some models aren’t too old (yet). Would love to find more info about these, still hoping you’d do an in depth review of them ;)
I didn’t ask specifically about those products, and my question was technically directed to the Fitness team, rather than the full Outdoors team. Though, I believe the question ended up in the hands of the GPS engineering group for answer.
Nonetheless, I’ll circle back and ask if any other Outdoor units are getting anything.
+1 for coverage on the Garmin outdoor line. I’m still happy that I chose the Oregon 750 over the Edge 820 when it came out (I explained why in the comments for the 820 review). I can even get power data on the Oregon now via ConnectIQ.
I know you’re really busy swimming and testing and enjoying the great summer we’re having here. But any chance you checkup up about those other outdoor devices (oregon / etrex) about them getting galileo? If not, can you ask around at eurobike?
Thanks in advance again and hope you dont mind the reminder :)
Ray, on your ‘to do’ list there are two items “hands on” scheduled for 26th June, but there have been only one (Kinetic) – shall we expect anything more in short time? ;)
(& Magnus from below)
I ended up consolidating the Kinetic Road Machine Smart 2 into the Kinetic inRide 2 post. Just ran out of time to write two separate posts that use the same pod and were done on the same hardware. That was the only one on the list that could have been consolidated a bit.
Thanks… July 3rd posts?
Eagerly awaiting all the upcoming announcements.
Damn, I just ordered Tacx Neo since it was sligthly discounted. Hope this doesn’t bite me in the ass, although my Turbo Muin started making weird noise after last ride.
Where’s the second ‘Hands-on’ post from yesterday (06/26)?
Hi
I have just updated to Beta 9.71 from 9.2
But I do not get Galileo support.
Under about it says GPS 4.40 (!)
Any ideas what it means and what to do?
Henning, go to Settings -> System -> Software Update. There should be another update for GPS 2.2.
Thanks
Yes there was an update that I have to run manual
Funny that the version have a lower number 2.2 where the original was 4.4
And my 5x just died a day ago going into continuous restart at night. Hard Reset, drive mode with USB cable – nothing worked. Pretty upset with Garmin over the last 5-6 years, as is not the first time.
I updated my 935 to 9.60 but I still don’t have GPS + Galileo. Looking at the release notes, it says I need to have GPS 2.20 but I’m on 4.40 with an exclamation point next to it: “GPS: 4.40 (!)”. This is the release notes:
“Added GPS + GALILEO support (Activity Settings > GPS). (Requires GPS version 2.20)”
What’s going on here?? There isn’t another update available my watch.
I’m using PowerPod and I’m happy with this. Its not necessary to spend to much money and ideal for two bikes
Hello, I write this post from Argentina and my English is not so good, I’m sorry. If I use this pod with a fenix 5, the vo2 max of cycling is calculated or I must use a vector. Thank you
Ray,
I think it’s time for you to dig a little on Garmin top watches (Fenix 5 and Forerunner 935) Firmware updates.
In the last month Garmin has released a lot of updates and every new one has introduced new bugs.
With the Galileo update they completely messed up the open water swimmimg gps traking, then they made a new update to solve the problem and now workouts uplaod via Garmin Connect Mobile doesn’t work again (that problem already showed up with another firmware update last spring).
It seems to me they are loosing control on their softwares.
Maybe you could speak with someone at Garmin and understand what’s going on…
Thanks Luca-
On the OW swim bit, I actually made an entire video last month about it (the issue) – though, the scope of that was it breaking the Fenix 5+ rather than the existing F5/935. It’s only after that video that people started letting me know it also recently broke on the 935/F5 too.
I actually shot yet another OW swim video yesterday using the latest firwmare, but that too is still broken (better, but still sucky).
I’m not sure I understand the GCM bit you mention though. I’ve got a FR935 that uploads just fine to GCM (yesterday’s workout in fact). Or am I missing something?
That said, I do agree that it appears there isn’t a strict test protocol on some of these things. Anyone who’s gone out and swam just a simple 1,000m would have seen the swim issues.
Things do seem to have taken a turn for the worse. Run workout pacing also seem broken perhaps since 9.60 firmware on the 935?
normally follow a planned workout on my 935 at least once a week when I go for a run, that will typically have section(s) with a pace target. Lets say 4:50-5:10.
It used to be the case with earlier firmware that on the workout screen during that segment, there’d be a display of the current lap average pace, whilst the Red-Green-Red bar around the top of the screen would have an arrow that gave an indication of the current pace. This was very useful as it let you know if you were currently going fast or slow right now, whilst the lap-average pace let you know how you were tracking for that segment overall.
However, the new behaviour has the Red-Green-Red bar just give an indication of the lap-average pace as well, so there’s two data displays telling you the same thing.
I’m hoping this is a bug and not desired behaviour as having instant pace and workout avg pace were extremely useful prior to the recent firmware updates.
Hey Ray,
I could imagine that you are quite busy due to Eurobike but I saw by coincidence that Velocomp has a PowerPod V3.
I was always very pleased with the first generation and wonder if there is a good reason to upgrade and if you will do at least a little review of it?