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A little unclear…. Is the new verison thinner or thicker?
Ray,
I think you have a slight typo: “reducing the thickness to 8.2mm from 7.5mm” should be “reducing the thickness to 7.5mm from 8.2mm”
0.7mm thinner
Thanks – all clear now!
No plans to add more data? BLE power profile supports sending vectors during the pedal stroke like Pioneer’s proprietary Ant protocol.
Ray,
I know the pricing for all groupsets is still tbd, but its not clear what the self install vs factory install price difference is, nor what the single sided starting price point is on the one groupset above which has prices. Can you clarify all prices?
Single-sided remains the same at $399, and upgrade pricing for the base is listed down below at $349. The reason there isn’t upgrade prices for everything is that since the full prices aren’t yet known…it’s hard to know upgrade prices. ;)
ah got it – just asked you this on twitter. I guess contacting them next week might be the best option!
So to be clear, I have a ride ready left only on my Ultegra 6800 and I can send my crankset to them and they will upgrade me for 349 to the full dual solution?
Do you know if they replace the left arm device or just add one for the right and they work together?
I’m wondering how the upgrade will work. I have a Precision left side power meter on an Ultegra 6800 crank which i’ve been waiting to upgrade. Will they replace the pod on the left crank arm as part of the upgrade? Or am I going to be stuck with a coin cell battery on the left and a rechargeable on the right?
Finally! Was contemplating jumping ship to get the dual pedal based options.
If they’re doing the upgrades like how they were doing the precision -> precision pro (dual), they would take out your gen 1 or 2 precision from the non-drive side and put the new models on both sides. I doubt the current precision units will talk well with the new podium units.
I understood left side sensor is thinner,
but how about followingcomaptibility?
1.LEFT with BB-side Shimano Direct mount brake.
2.RIGHT with Rotor Q-rings or other Asymmetric rings.
Hey Ray
Any word on what the limitations around the upgrade offer are? Their website says “eligible FC-R6800 4iiii customers” but no further details.
I would love to see compatibility with some cranks that work with 28/44 (or similar) chain-rings… looks like a good market for crank arm power meters when there’s not much space for a spider based PM…
Looks like pedal-based will be the way to go – the few companies that actually do support Campagnolo only support the highest of high ends, and I don’t think replacing my entire groupset for the privilege of being able to fit a powermeter is worth it.
Ok… so just to confirm, I’ve currently got a single sided Ultegra 6800.
Can I now upgrade to dual sided?
Is this the $349, or is that for the DA dual side upgrade?
So again nothing for Mountain Bike lovers? Especially Shimano XT cranks would be nice ;-)
Good initial pass on this and thanks. Would they be able to provide the recharge cycle expectation? Also, is the battery customer serviceable or does it need to be sent back to the manufacturer a la SRM battery servicing?
I am watching this space with interest. As a single side Precision Ultegra FC-6800 user I am interested how the upgrade will work. However, looking at the pricing AND me being in Europe, it is not a slam dunk.
Most probably limited time upgrade option at $349 refers to factory install (install on my crank). My quick and rough calculation is that for customers in Europe the end cost of upgrade may be somewhere in the region of 450 EUR minimum (postage both ways, VAT and customs). P2Max NGeco 3d24 w/ praxis rings w/o bb works out 790 EUR shipped.
Here’s the reply I got from them on the question of Gen 2 replacement or no:
Podiiiium will work with Gen2 PRECISION units. For those wanting to save money you can simply add the drive side unit to you existing crankset. We will also have an upgrade available for those that want to have their Gen 2 PRECISION removed and have a full Podiiiium set up. Please fill out this form and we will contact you as more information becomes available.
Thanks for asking them! I wonder if the $349 is to get a drive side installation (assuming that requires you to send it in) to go with your old Precision, or if the $349 is for the latter.
Is that form on the website or did they only send it because you requested it?
Come on 4iiii, are the 5800 users being forgotten?! I bought mine in March and was hoping for a upgrade to dual-sided. Does it mean it is not gonna happen?
“you buy a new crankset from them with everything pre-installed”
Completely incorrect. You can not “pre-install” anything, that would mean it was installed before it was installed. It is simply “installed’.
It would be correct to write “you buy a new crankset from them with everything installed”.
“Completely incorrect” is incorrect. You are either correct, or not correct. Completely incorrect is redundant. It’s akin to saying “the flight is completely full”.
Oh the burn.
hope there is more news on the $349 upgrade to dual sided. I bought the unit from CleverTraining.
Ray,
I’m not easily finding the differences between the podium and precision lines? Is the only difference batt/recharge and thickness? Accuracy? Compatibility with head units? I see that Bora will be using Wahoo Bolt with Podium…..which on 4iiii web page isn’t listed as compatable?
Edit.. podium vs. Precision Pro
No difference in compatibility with head units.
Not sure why exactly it doesn’t show compatible to BOLT, perhaps just some admin-type thing.
Thanks for the reply Ray I must say you are attentive
I have the opportunity with the company to buy a Precision Pro unit now by sending in my dura ace 9100 cranks they said the podium would not be available for the 9100 cranks until later in 2018. So the biggest question is is there any difference between the two power meters. Their website is unclear to me the differences between them
Thanks for the reply Ray I must say you are attentive
Ï
I have the opportunity with the company to buy a Precision Pro unit now by sending in my dura ace 9100 cranks they said the podium would not be available for the 9100 cranks until later in 2018. So the biggest question is is there any difference between the two power meters. Their website is unclear to me the differences between them
Hey Ray do you think they’ll release the Podium for 105?
Ray! From the other posts I know you are working on Stages dual and Shimano power meter reviews. What about 4iiii Podiiiium. Is that in the pipeline?
Just got an email from 4iiii about availability of the drive side upgrade. The 6800 is listed as an option on the order page, but no mention of the $349 deal.
Yeah, I’ve received the email too. Looking at the website prices, looks like the price to upgrade from single side precision to dual sided podiiiium will be 599 USD. So 150 dollars discount from the 749 USD regular price for dual sided fresh install.
Hardly a “discount” when the factory dual install comes with 2 new power meters for $150 more.
The picture for drive side only installation shows the left crank arm with the precision power meter still in place; presumably they are just leaving the left as is and installing podiiiium on the Drive side….
Honestly have had no complaints with my left only 6800 precision… But for $599 I may look into something like Assioma or factory reconditioned powertap.
Hardly a “discount” when the factory dual install comes with 2 new power meters for $150 more.
The picture for drive side only installation shows the left crank arm with the precision power meter still in place; presumably they are just leaving the left as is and installing podiiiium on the Drive side….
Honestly have had no complaints with my left only 6800 precision… But for $599 I may look into something like Assioma or factory reconditioned powertap.
For the $349 discounted upgrade, it appears to only be a drive-side Precision Podium installation on your existing right arm/spider that you send them (and they ding you a fairly expensive round-trip shipping cost). It sounds like there is about a 4 week backlog, and the left side they don’t touch, so you end up with a Precision Pro coin-cell battery on the left side, and a Precision Podium rechargeable on the right side. I’m not sure if there’s a firmware update or how the two communicate with each other.
The original vague press release made it sound like they’d give you a left/right Podium upgrade for $349, but really you’re just getting a right side for $349+shipping (almost $50 for me, which seemed really steep) instead of $599. You need to contact them for the details and to confirm that you purchased a FC-6800 Precision Pro.
I signed up for it, but I’m having my doubts. My Precision Pro is usually pretty good but sometimes it gives out wonky cadence data (it will double the cadence occasionally), and I was hoping to upgrade to hopefully have a new unit on both sides. What I don’t know is whether the right side is a complete standalone PM or if it is just a slave to the left side. Plus, having a coin cell on one side and a USB rechargeable with a shorter life on the other seems like the worst of both worlds, although hopefully the system can resort to single sided if the battery on either dies.
After reading the review for the double sided Precision,it sounds like the left and right are basically separate powermeters that you pair within the app. Either side can work independently, and if one dies then the other takes over and starts doubling. So the mixed setup isn’t that big of a deal, and there’s an added bonus that if I wanted to put the left side on a different bike, I could unpair them and have two separate single sided PMs.
Where do you see the $349 upgrade option? I can only find $599 drive side upgrade (factory installed) option on their website.
I got my order in for the $349 6800 dual side upgrade. It’s really more like $400-$425 because you do have to pay for shipping. Since I have an original first gen Precision, I was told I’d need to send both cranks in and that both sides would be upgraded to Podiiiium. I guess if you have the second gen Pro, the left is already dual capable and it won’t be changed out.
My original Precision has served me well and I’m looking forward to the dual side upgrade. I also have a Watteam, and I’ve had some question about the accuracy of it, so it will be interesting to see how they compare.
What about Europe? Are they going to set a dealership here? As far as we have to send it to America and pay fees customs, it wouldn’t worth for us.
Ray,
Any chance of the review for this to come out soon?
Cheers
Definitely not soon. I don’t even have a unit.
Has anyone placed an order for the 4iiii Podium PM? Has anyone ridden them yet?
I own two 4iiii precision PM’s which worked well for me, and liked their customer service when one of them stopped working and they replaced the Gen1 pod with a Gen2 pod. On that basis I ordered the Podium dual sided PM for my new Dura Ace 9100 cranks and shipped my cranks to 4iiii early March to have the PM factory installed.
Installation was scheduled for wk11 of this year. It’s wk16 now and I have not seen my cranks. In fact I have no idea what’s going on with my cranks. Communication is incredibly poor. Multiple emails have gone unanswered. Update emails are promised but not sent, etc. I spoke to an employee once but got rather inconclusive answers as to what’s going on. I suspect they have run into reliability / production issues, which to me is baffling. Why introduce the PM if it doesn’t work? Surely they have done rigorous testing?
In the mean time I have an event coming up in 10 days for which I’ve trained hard. I need my cranks back for that event. At this stage either with or without a power meter installed, but it’s tough to get anything done when the company is essentially ignoring paying customers.
I asked 4iiii sales support for their installation time on the podiiiium and this is the reply I got.
“We are scheduling installs for Podiiiium into the first week of May. Have a great day.”
Hope this helps. Cheers.
I pre-ordered a podiiiium in January, and still haven’t received it. Apparently they were having accuracy issues. Whilst I have been getting responses to my emails from the sales team, they have been very vague. Disappointing and frustrating.
Well, I guess this explains why Ray doesn’t have a unit yet. I appreciate that they want to get it right and ship out a quality product, but they shouldn’t be having folks send in their cranks on an unrealistic install date and say that there will be a 5-7 day turnaround when it sounds like there is going to be an extended delay. Not cool that we’re going to be without our cranks all this time.
Here’s my timeline (for the $349 FC-6800 upgrade). Note that this is JUST a right side Podium. I guess if you have a Gen1 Precision they replace the whole shebang, the Gen2 owners just get the Podium right side. So I’ll end up with a mixed Precision/Podium, a coin cell on the left and a USB rechargeable on the right. Not a significant problem, according to the review they can pair each other and if one side battery dies, the other will take over and start doubling it. It’s essentially two standalone power meters. Note also that for me at least, there was a $45 shipping charge, which included round trip shipping to Canada.
March 5 – I placed order, got an e-mail saying they were scheduling for the week of April 2nd / April 9th, with a 5-7 business day turnaround.
April 6 – I got an email saying they would send out shipping labels next week.
April 9 – I got a shipping label e-mailed to me late in the evening. This was a little confusing, the e-mail says to bring it to FedEx and they will package it, or if you use your own packaging it needs to be within a certain dimension. When I showed up to the FedEx store, the lady was confused, told me that she would try to fit it in a FedEx ‘large’ box (which is a centimeter or two longer in one dimension than the dimensions 4iiii tells you), but if she needed to use different packaging I would have to pay for it. So I just had her use the large box.
April 13 – It was delivered in the morning to 4iiii.
And that’s where I am at – this is the 6th business day, I haven’t gotten any confirmation that it was even received, let alone an ETA for when it will be ready. I’m a bit frustrated because when I was first going back and forth with them, I told them I had a race on the 22nd and I needed it back by then. That’s obviously not going to happen, so I had to borrow a crankset for my race. I guess I’ll call on Monday if I don’t hear anything by then (that will be the 7th business day).
Edit – not a minute after posting this comment, I got an e-mail that they have the crank and are doing the install now. So it seems like they should make the 5-7 business day window they provide.
I wanted to clarify my experience since it seemed like there was some confusion from 3 different scenarios –
There’s a several week backlog if you order the upgrade right now (John 4/16 comment) for them to schedule the upgrade
If you have the upgrade scheduled (me), it seems like they are on track to make the 5-7 business day window
If you pre-ordered a non upgrade (EJ 4/20 comment) sounds like there are issues (which is a little concerning if they are shipping hardware that could have issues)
I have tried SOO Many times to get ahold of 4iiii and never I mean NEVER get a reply…….email, voice main, phone call nothing…..their CS sucks. I hope for all if, when something goes wrong, they don’t treat you this way. I was so hopeful of this product, maybe things will change…………
Has anyone here actually has got their Podium dual and used it ona bike? 4iiii shop indicates it is out of stock. I wonder if any ride ready units have actually been shipped and are in use by someone somewhere?
My cranks have been with 4iiii for weeks. I’ve received one email, promising a subsequent update that never came. At this point I am pretty disappointed and concerned that the product I eventually receive will not live up to basic quality / accuracy standards. Circumstances and human nature would suggest that they are struggling with the design, and will be incented to push out a product before it’s ready, just to keep people quiet. Of course, the mistake was made long ago when they took people’s money without being ready. Anyone else share this concern?
I posted last week that they told me my crank was in the factory having the install conducted. Unfortunately, there’s still been no update or shipping notification. It arrived the 13th, today is the 25th, so that’s 9 business days (they claimed 5-7). At least for me the customer service has at least been responding to my e-mails fairly quickly, but they are just handing out canned excuses it seems like.
I’m quite annoyed – I already raced on a borrowed crank last weekend after they missed their initial estimate (April 2nd ship date + 5-7 business days).
This is the kind of behavior I’d expect from a start-up doing an initial production run, not from a company that is on their 3rd generation product and has been equipping World Tour teams and selling to the public for several years already.
I’m hopeful that the technology is fundamentally sound, since they’ve already been selling a Precision dual sided for years, and the Podium is basically just a different enclosure and battery. Hopefully this is just a manufacturing delay fiasco, and not an issue with the engineering or the technology, but who knows?
My cranks were delivered to 4iiii earlier than yours, but I have had zero updates or communications. Asked for a status update, but haven’t received a response. I can deal with paying up front for a pre-order since they do say there might be delays, but having us send them our cranks when they know they can’t get to them is not right.
My installation date window was week of April 9. I’m going from Precision Gen1 on 6800 to dual Podiiiium. I dropped off my cranks the week before April 9 at their office and have since received one email during the week of April 9 saying they have received the cranks and installation was underway. On one hand, I’m not in a hurry to go ride outside yet, but would be nice to get some status update. From all the complaints on here, sounds like they’re pretty swamped with installation.
Would be nice to compare it against my Tacx neo to see how much deviation (or left/right imbalance I have). The numbers from my single sided precision numbers were quite a bit different to my Tacx vortex. Didn’t try comparing to the Tacx neo.
I am sure the technology works, it’s the implementation that concerns me (and probably you too). They likely rushed this out due to the arrival of the Shimano and Stages dual PMs, took people’s money, and realized they couldn’t deliver. There are so many good power meter options now. To preserve goodwill they should offer refunds and take the time to get the product right rather than pushing out an inferior product. If a Podiiiium showed up at my house tomorrow I would be very concerned about accuracy and durability.
Update: Still no word. 18 days and they have stopped responding to my e-mails. I sent one more e-mail this morning. If I don’t hear back, I’m going to open up a dispute with my credit card company. This is a bunch of BS, I’d expect this sort of thing from a fly-by-night kickstarter operation, not a company that’s been around for several years and sponsors World Tour teams.
I would urge Ray to put up a warning or remove 4iiii from his recommendations.
Hmm, odd. I sent them an e-mail on Friday about the lack of response being largely unacceptable and they responded briefly that they were digging into it. i agree, 18 days is too long (assuming you weren’t e-mailing them every day anyway). I’ll give them to the end of today to respond publicly (or at least to customers).
Same thing with me, sent them a couple of emails last week and no response. Another person told me they couldn’t get a response either. I’m really concerned because they haven’t even acknowledged that they have my cranks and power meter, which were delivered to them 19 days ago.
Called 4iiii and turns out my crank is almost ready to ship out! It seems like they are doing the installs and are just behind on communications. The install is complete and they just need to do final quality assurance checkout and then they are going to send it out. I assume the other people who sent theirs in around the same time as me are probably shipping out in the next couple of days as well.
I also need to apologize because when I called last week, I got a recording that my call could not be completed. I assumed there was a problem with them not answering, but I tried from a different phone and it went through. I guess even though it’s a US style phone number that doesn’t require dialing a country code, it’s in Canada, and not every phone plan supports that. I had to use a different phone, so if you’ve called from the US and they didn’t answer, try a different phone.
That sound promising, though I still am wary about the situation given their previous stated estimates and the lack of direct or public communication.
I just don’t understand their communications fail. I emailed twice a few days apart and the automated ticket numbers assigned were only 120 apart. They seriously can’t handle 120 emails inquiries over a few days? One tends to assume the worst when they won’t respond.
woah, just got a shipment notification!
Just received an email saying mine is ready for pickup at their office.
Fedex showed up this morning with my cranks. Went for a spin on the trainer and the power numbers out of the Podium look comparable to my Powerbeat. The wait and lack of status was frustrating, but my order seems to have turned out ok in the end.
First ride with mine went well, data seems accurate but I didn’t dig into left/right balance. It is reading power if I pedal with one leg on either side so it’s working.
Until my dumbass left foot slipped when I was trying to pedal with just my right foot and slid into the spokes of my rear wheel and now it’s out of true. Fantastic, after a month waiting for my road bike, now I need to wait even longer until I can get the wheel trued.
Word to the wise – BE CAREFUL WHEN PEDALING WITH ONE FOOT TO TEST OUT YOUR FANCY NEW POWER METER
What cranksets have you guys got? I’m waiting on R8000 factory install
6800 for me, and nalc also I believe
Ah. Maybe there’s a different. I’m waiting for new shimano.
So guys please help me to understand what is the bottom line here.
Can I trust them to finish the work in 1 month?
For those users that have received their new podiiiium (ride ready or upgrade) – what is your initial /medium term impression? Anything that sticks out in therms of accuracy / quirks?
Now that there are some podiiiiums in use out there, the relative silence in the comments section here must mean that everything is OK. Is that so?
Haven’t had a chance to ride mine (dual 6800) outdoors yet. I did use it indoors on Zwift, looked at my left right balance and compare the numbers to my Tacx Neo. For the low power I have, there’s a deviation of a few watts (2-3 watts). That’s around 1.5%. This should help me greatly in pacing when riding outdoors now that both my indoor and outdoor numbers are more closely matched.
My previous setup was the Tacx Vortex Smart and left side Gen 1 Precision. And they don’t match up that nicely +/- 10% on various “terrain” on Zwift.
Yeah, pretty much. It seems accurate. Power balance checks out OK. The only thing I’ve noticed is that my NDS Precision has seemed to run down the battery fairly quickly – the app says 50% after 40 hours or so of riding for the left (coin cell) and 75% for the right (rechargeable). I think the published numbers are 100 hours for the coin cell and 60 for the rechargeable, so it’s a bit odd. Nothing I’m worried about though.
Before you order from 4iiii, and send your money and your crank in, you should be aware that this is not really a quick process, and should expect to lose the use of that particular bike for 3 to 4 weeks, particularly if you are outside Canada. I paid US$27 for shipping; they claimed on their package it weighed. 7.9 kg. They are impressive until they get your crank. They send all the paperwork, and you send it FedEx. Then, everything slows down. Their marketing said 5-7 workdays for installation. It took 10. Then, they sent it back Canada Post. Really? For $27, I would expect a more expedient shipping method.
I really feel like they misled me, and had I known this, I probably would have gone with a different alternative.
Caveat emptor.
Just adding in my own experience in case it helps anyone.
Ordered factory dual sided install on my DA 9000 direct from 4iiii website May 14.
FedEx label created and emailed to me May 16
Shipped cranks via FedEx May 22
FedEx pick up in Toronto May 23
FedEx delivered to 4iiii in Calgary May 24
4iiii shipped back cranks via Canada Post June 8
Received cranks June 15
So roughly 3 weeks turn around time.
As for the power meter its very slim and seems accurate when compared to my Wahoo smart trainer. Im happy.
As with Vince,I’m about to receive mine within a month, which also accounted for about a week trying to find a fedex location to drop it off at (turns out they do pick up). That’s a month to get it from Singapore to Canada and Back with my week of delay so 3 week turn around from 4iii including delivery. Installed on the previous (silver) dura ace cranks rather than purchasing pre-installed to new cranks. Watch out from me is the hefty shipping costs from Singapore. Only found that out late in the purchase process what the costs were so check postage costs first. Overall seems like they are turning these round pretty swiftly now and 3 weeks isn’t far off what can be expected I’d say.
I know that is old news and old thread, but I want to inquire about the user experience with these Podiiiium units. Do you find it realiable, accurate. How is the battery holding up? And is the carging process easy/uneventful? Does the dust cap stay in place?
I know that Ray was using a double sided Podiiium (for review purposes AFAIK,l but the review never appeared). It certainly appeared on some graphs and comparison datasets.
I have been using the older Precision Pro single sided on two bikes. After years of use, it looks like one of the units is acting up (which I beleive was caused by water ingress, when in a crash the battery cover was damaged and perhaps some water managed to seep in). So am thinking about possibly upgrading to dual sided Podiiiium. The problem, of course, is availability, It looks like factory install only, ride ready units are not available even at 4iiii webshop (let alone in Europe where I am from).
Yeah, I was using it over the summer, but took it off back in August before Eurobike. I’ve got all the data/shots I need. Just need a few hours to write up the text and push it out.
Short version is that I agree here with GPLAMA, the underlying Shimano R8000/9100 based units just aren’t good for dual-sided power meters, especially on the right side: link to gplama.com
In the case of 4iiii, I was consistently getting wobbly data. I’d have zero concerns if not on an R8000/9100 (for example their setup on the Specialized units).
Getting that review posted it on the to-do list.
Thanks a lot for your reply.
Ah, that is super interesting. I had somehow missed GPLama’s post on this.
Looking forward to you Podiiiium review.