On the list of quirky things, I didn’t have “Strava bans user for running in North Korea” on my bingo card today. But here we are. I’ve just spent the last hour going down the rabbit hole that is the Pyongyang Marathon (in North Korea), and it turns out – it’s a thing. As in, a thing that outsiders come and run. There’s even an official website for it. In fact, there’s been 31 editions of it. And over 1,000 foreigners run in it and the affiliated running events each year, including plenty of diplomats such as the then British Ambassador to North Korea.
The event has been happening for decades, but that’s actually not what caused this person to have their account banned. Rather, they were there for a trip because they are working on their doctorate about North Korea, and while there, went on a run, then came home (to a different country). After which, they uploaded their run to Garmin Connect, which then synced it to Strava. Finally, Strava then sent them a note that their account was being terminated.
But wait, it gets better!
Last month, a person did a treadmill run where their virtual run location was set as North Korea. Guess what? Their account too was banned. Albeit, after contacting support, the company eventually reinstated it – but clearly Strava has some pretty funky rules in place around uploading activities related to North Korea. What’s strange here though is that it’s not simply hiding the workout, but straight-up deleting the account. Which obviously, makes no sense – so, I did what I do best: Dig into it.
!!!Now, before we go too far, let’s just take two seconds to do a quick explainer on North Korea travel. In a nutshell, there are tour operators who operate trips to North Korea. Depending on your citizenship, it is actually not illegal for people to go to North Korea within one of those tour operator trips. These trips are *highly* controlled, and generally speaking give outsiders a positive impression of North Korea, generally only featuring the lives of elite families. They would rightly be called propaganda. Equally though, they are one of the few windows into society in North Korea, polished and skewed as it might be. Perhaps the best balance of a video I’ve seen recently was this one published just 10 days ago, with over 5 million views. Again, I’m definitely not here to endorse you (or me) going to North Korea!!!
Instead, I’m here to illuminate an absolutely bonkers automated system that Strava has, backed by an even more unexplainable policy.
How Strava Handles Activities in North Korea:
That now-Strava-deleted-user lives outside North Korea, and is studying North Korea for her doctorate. In addition, she also has a YouTube channel (and other social media bits), that are a blend of ultra running + insights into North Korea from an outsider’s perspective. Again, I’m definitely not here to advocate going to North Korea. Nor am I here to judge her and her study of North Korea. After all, the study of all countries and cultures is important to understanding them. Instead, I’m here to ‘free the GPS track’. It’s like the ‘free the nipple’, only less exciting.
While on one of these aforementioned tourist trips, she went on a run, and recorded that with her GPS watch (specifically, a Garmin Forerunner 265 by the looks of it). Note that while technically North Korea has historically prohibited standalone GPS devices, it appears that these days they turn a blind eye to watches, given most smartwatches have GPS in them today. Same goes for phones (which are permitted for tourism trips).
Of course, there’s no publicly accessible internet in North Korea, thus the person waited till they got home to upload the workout. After uploading the workout, they received a notice that their account had been terminated, for violating Strava’s Terms and Conditions. Here’s a screenshot of that Instagram story:
Strava’s response seemed like a pretty harsh reaction, but then I did a bit more digging. Just over a month ago, a user on Reddit reported doing a treadmill run. Their iFit-equipped treadmill enabled them to do runs pretty much anywhere Google Maps has mapping information, which does indeed include North Korea. It can essentially recreate a route anywhere. And they did just that, after which it uploaded to Strava. Following which, Strava banned the user.
Now, following the ban, the user reached out to Strava Support, and was able to get the account un-terminated, after they determined the user didn’t actually go to North Korea.
Figuring Out The Rules:
But still, none of this was holding water, logical or otherwise. Why on earth was Strava banning users for uploading random runs in North Korea. After all, the company is more than happy to publish data from military officers and other government officials on top-secret plans. Certainly, North Korea would be the opposite of top secret. (Nitpickers Corner: I’m fully aware that in these cases, Strava is actually not at fault here, but rather individuals not understanding that posting data to a social media site is…umm…social.)
In any case, regarding the North Korea case, I asked Strava what was up.
And here’s what they had to say:
“Thanks for the chance to provide clarity on this.
In accordance with mandatory US sanctions and export controls, which prohibit the offering of online services to North Korea, Strava does not allow users to post activities occurring there. This is also directly stated in our Terms of Service (“[users] may not use or export the Content in violation of U.S. export laws and regulations”). When a user uploads activity with GPS data indicating North Korea, the activity is hidden, the account is automatically suspended, and the user is notified. If the user believes the block was made in error—e.g., as a result of faulty GPS data—they are able to reach out to our team and, if confirmed, have their account restored.”
Hmm.
After their initial response, I volleyed back that this didn’t really make much sense. The user in question wasn’t accessing Strava from North Korea (thus, Strava isn’t providing services to North Korea). Further, the user created the run in North Korea on Garmin hardware, not Strava hardware. And then uploaded it to Strava once they left the country. Again, Strava isn’t available in North Korea, so this isn’t an issue. Said differently, nobody is violating US export controls here, since the company (Strava) isn’t providing a service to North Korea.
In fact, countless people upload videos to YouTube that were shot in North Korea on all manner of devices/phones. Just as numerous mainstream media entities have done so for decades. These tourism trips are hardly new. Again, propaganda-driven, but hardly new. The Pyongyang Marathon has been going on for years. Likewise, you can upload a photo taken within North Korea to Facebook, or Instagram, or any other platform you choose. Further, Garmin does not have any sort of ban or prohibition on a user going for a run with a Garmin watch anywhere on this planet. That’s your device, to do as you wish, and uploading it to Garmin Connect won’t get you banned either.
If there was a real basis for legal concern, there wouldn’t be thousands upon thousands of videos uploaded to YouTube that were shot in North Korea. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that Google has better lawyers than Strava. Likewise, Facebook and Apple. Because Apple doesn’t terminate your iCloud account because it contains your iPhone photos taken in North Korea (yes, I checked that too).
In any event, after I volleyed back to Strava again, asking why the company seems to be taking a much more restrictive stance than any other company on this planet that I can find, they said:
“We can’t speak for other companies and how they approach compliance with export controls. Strava’s controls are based on feedback from the US Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, and we take a broad, zero-tolerance approach.”
Again, per above, that doesn’t really explain why Strava seems to be (seemingly incorrectly) interpreting how this law works. But nonetheless, since that’s the way Strava is handling it, I asked if there was a list of other countries that fall into this camp (so users could be aware), which they responded with:
“As noted previously, Strava’s approach is based on feedback from OFAC.”
So, no?
Ok, let’s go on a field trip then to the Treasury Department’s website and see if we can find the list from OFAC. I’ll save you a crap-ton of bumbling around. The main page you need is this one. Or, maybe this one. This first lists *MASSIVE* PDF files full of every possible sanction type. There are dozens of countries on the list. But the level of sanctions varies by country. For example, China is on the list, but it does not prohibit regular business transactions. As are plenty of countries in Africa and the Middle East, again, which don’t prohibit most business transactions. The best I could easily discern was a list from Oregon State University, that seems to indicate it’s: Cuba, Iran, North Korea, and Syria.
Figuring out exactly which list Strava is using to decide would be very helpful. But alas, I already asked that. Which begs the question: Why can’t they provide it, and state it simply, on some support site? Further, why on earth would a user be banned, as opposed to having their activity hidden? If Strava’s goal is to hide that data source, simply hiding the activity would solve that.
In fact, years ago, Strava did actually show data from North Korea. There’s an old Reddit thread on it. And there was even a Segment at one point. None seem to exist today.
In any event, that completes my rabbit hole for the day. You’re welcome.
FOUND THIS POST USEFUL? SUPPORT THE SITE!
Hopefully, you found this post useful. The website is really a labor of love, so please consider becoming a DC RAINMAKER Supporter. This gets you an ad-free experience, and access to our (mostly) bi-monthly behind-the-scenes video series of “Shed Talkin’”.
Support DCRainMaker - Shop on Amazon
Otherwise, perhaps consider using the below link if shopping on Amazon. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. It could simply be buying toilet paper, or this pizza oven we use and love.
I have several activities in Cuba on Strava in December 2019. Not going to post links here because I don’t want to get banned as well.
Lol, there are tons of us Canadian runners who have runs in Cuba. I have several, spanning a few years. Anyone who’s gone to an all inclusive and done a beach walk and recorded it falls into this category.
It’s really only the US that has a thing with Cuba.
This just adds to the ‘knobber’ behaviour that we have seen over the years from Strava, if they keep banning users they won’t have any left
Strava… Never gets boring with it.
Didn’t I comment something similar on an article days ago? 😁
On a sidenote… how many times can you emphasize in one article that you do not encourage anyone to travel to North Korea?
Is that really such a big deal for Americans?
Yes. From link to travel.state.gov
*U.S. passports are not valid for travel to, in, or through North Korea, unless they are specially validated by the Department of State. See here for how to apply special passport to travel to North Korea.
I agree, it was unnerving to see such insistence. This site is not only for Americans, obviously. And I am sure it is read by people with a certain level of intelligence, so surely they know the situation and if they are thinking of going there, they will surely investigate restrictions first. The more people visit there (and everywhere), the more people are getting closer and friendlier with each other, the better for the planet.
The US is technically still at war with North Korea, so yes, it’s an especially big deal here :-D.
TBF, he probably just doesn‘t want anyone crying afterwards „DcRaINmAkeR sUGesTeD tO gO To NOrTh KoREa“. There are always some (fortunately very few) people who regard articles like this as some kind of challenge like „what, Strava forbids me from recording an activity in North Korea? Hell no! I‘ll show them!“ and if then something happens the fault lies in the article, person, whatever but not with themselves.
The US was actively at war with North Vietnam when Jane Fonda went there. I’m not a US citizen so I cannot be sure, but I don’t think there is a law forbidding this.
“Technically,” the US never declared war on North Korea. They declared it a “police action” in support of the UN.
Putin learned from the best, before starting his “special operation”.
Cuba, Syria and Iran all have Heat map data. North Korea doesn’t.
Cuba and Iran, sure. But I can’t see any heatmap data for Syria. And while North Korea doesn’t show any heatmap data, it does have some Strava segments. You can also find activities recorded in North Korea on Strava. One example would be link to strava.com
So, is this ban selective? Or was it introduced recently and they haven’t cleared out old data?
I was wrong about Syria. There’s heatmap data in Damascus.
that ride was in -6 degrees. ouch
I have a few activities recorded in Iran on Strava and I didn’t get banned. Strava also shows heatmaps and segements for Iran.
Ok whew. I just got back from Iran lol
Umm. Aren’t strava providing services by having a segment, leaderboard in North Korea? link to strava.com
Of course they do.
I guess this falls under: bad lawyers are making as much illegal as possible to cover their behinds.
A good lawyer would go for minimal impact to users.
Yet another reason I will not pay for Strava. I’m happy to pay for other tools like Zwift and RWGPS, but not for Strava.
Totally agree – Strava has lost my subscription after its recent idiotic behaviour but I am happily paying for companies who provide cycling related online services to customers they value
Strava, the gift that keeps on giving.
The company that alienates its user community to see how far it can push them not to use their platform
I continue to be baffled by the thinking at Strava. They seem to be taking lessons on PR from Tesla (not a good idea even before the current dynamic) of generally ignore input and when you bother to answer, minimal interaction.
As to this specific idiocy, it seems someone took an ultra-conservative interpretation (can’t get in trouble for saying ‘no’). If in doubt, hit the ban hammer. Any time you hear a policy is ‘zero tolerance’ you should assume that thought does not go into either it or its enforcement. Kinda the point.
So, instead of having tools or process to intelligently filter content, they just use a simple flag (geo=DPRK) to whack. Then don’t listen to feedback.
This is also the case with the link blocker they implemented a few months ago. They had problems with scammers posting links in posts and comments. So they do the dumbest, simplest thing possible and remove ALL links as they are submitted. Not even a note or feedback to the user. Just stripped. No effort to whitelist safer content (say known domains like youtube.com). They post a page on this to their support site promising updates. None. Well, except that they disabled commenting on that post. Hmmm. I guess it’s fine, no complaints.
Seriously, Strave, you’re pissing off PAYING customers along with free ones who fill out the ecosystem. I happen to like what Strava does right. The basic tools and archive are amazing. The ability to use it as a hub (in and out) for all this data is an amazing thing (remember offloading files with a serial cable to your computer and hoping for format compatibility?) But they keep doing dumb, customer-unfriendly things that make me look at alternatives. The competition is very close if you’re willing to accumulate products/services. I am currently questioning my upcoming renewal. Why pay when the critical parts are free and the extras are being damaged?
Bro, you wanna get banned? Stop talking so much about North Korea!
Are there any good alternatives to Strava when it comes to archive and data hub?
You mean besides Garmin Connect? I use intervals.icu because I like the analytics, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t serve as a hub. Of the things I’ve used in the past but no longer use, maybe Runkeeper is still around.
On macOS, I still use RubiTrack and Golden Cheetah. And you can always just store your files in the cloud, like in a Dropbox folder.
“This is also directly stated in our Terms of Service (“[users] may not use or export the Content in violation of U.S. export laws and regulations”)”
Yes, it is so clear. Everyone knows what actions violate US export laws and regulations!
If this is really such a big deal, make uploading throw an error if the activity is in North Korea. So dumb to suspend the account.
[Minor FYI for commentors, as usual, any comment with a URL/link in it, goes into a holding bin. The exception being for registered DCR Supporters, because that gets us past endless spam (like, actual spam about Nigerian princes).
Feel free to keep including links/etc in your comments, totally cool! Just note that there might be a slight delay before I manually approve it, especially since I’m riding out in the Morocco deserts and the internet has been…limited.]
You don’t have a Starlink Mini yet Ray? Here I thought you liked tech gadgets 🤣
Do you still use your unlimited worldwide roaming subscription from way back, or did you switch to something else at some point?
Still that same AT&T plan from about 16-17 years ago. :) Deal of a lifetime, and I intend to keep it for that much too!
Only downside is that I can’t tether devices to it (like my laptop), been like that since the beginning. I have a cheap secondary Dutch eSIM that has 100GB of data on it for just that, covers EU.
Else, for this trip (in Morocco), I just use hotel WiFi for my laptop if/when I need it. But hotel WiFi has been hit or miss, and cellular so-so.
I looked at the Starlink Mini, but honestly, the cell coverage is just so good in Europe that it’s incredibly difficult to get out of range – even deep in the mountains, save some valleys.
what if:
– we all do a virtual ride/run in North Korea and we all posted that on Strava
– we would be banned of course
– then we all send e-mails about it to Strava -support
– and then should get our account back
– will they get the hint?
Just stop at step 2, it’s brilliant! Strava auto-deletes their *entire* user/subscriber base — their only business value — and wakes up Monday morning to Board of Directors firing the CEO 😂
Maybe Strava has the same legal advisors that Stride Gum had in the “Where the Hell is Matt?” fiasco…
The hilarious part is Strava still claims ownership of said data and prohibits you from uploading it to any other site.
Up next: Ray banned from the internets for naming countries visible on any map.
The TOS states that disputes are to be resolved via binding arbitration through JAMS. The consumer only has to pay $250 for arbitration, and Strava would have to pay the full arbitration fee plus tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
Yet you can have ebike rides categorized as bike rides daily, or include your drive home from a ride at 70 mph on the regular and strava says no prob.
So, I did a little nosing around on the Strava Heatmap – you would think that I have better things to do… Russia? No problem, Moscow is full of glowing streets. Damascus (Syria)? Totally fine! How about Cuba? Plenty of traces in Havana. Iraq? Iran? Yup, both fine. So, the prohibited locations other than North Korea are … hmmm…
Strava’s policy towards Russia is somewhat inconsistent. Details are generally unknown to the world.
Tracks of workouts from Russia are successfully downloaded via Garmin (as is the case for 99% of users worldwide).
When trying to access the Strava website from Russia:
“403 ERROR
The request could not be satisfied.
The Amazon CloudFront distribution is configured to block access from your country.”
Since according to current statistics, more than 90% of users in Russia have VPN technology to access the Internet through neutral countries (for example, to watch YouTube), it is not difficult to use the same technology for Strava to bypass blocking – and in fact, there are no other obstacles to use. In addition, it is impossible to use paid functions from Russia even if desired.
Here you can see heatmap data and segment in Damascus
I enjoyed going down that rabbit hole, here is another one for you.
Zwift races, why can you mark them as commutes but you can’t mark them as a race? :)
Here’s hoping, that some clever app developers, can come up with a new app, that brings back what Strava was, without all these, frankly, woke concepts.
I’m always surprised, that Training Peaks, hasn’t developed a social side to its platform, with aspects from Strava, than can be enabled/disabled by the end user.
At this rate – Canada is going to be on the list soon. 😂
As a Korean myself(South!), it was very interesting article and the video from an England guy was fun. Since South Korean does not be allowed to visit North, I hope that I could participate in the sports events(Running, cycling etc.) in North Korea before I gone. There are a lot of mountains over 2,000m, comparing to the highest mountain top in South Korea is 1,952m.
Their reference to ofac is a misnomer.
BIS Country Group E is what they would be pointed to.
They are applying a very narrow definition of “Export” from 734.13 (a) (2)
link to ecfr.gov
> Releasing or otherwise transferring “technology” or source code (but not object code) to a foreign person in the United States (a “deemed export”);
And are selectively including only North Korea from 740
link to bis.gov
So Strava is inconsistent, I get it. BUT, why the hell would you go there in the first place considering the human rights violations, the number of US citizens and Christians killed and murdered, and why the hell post an activity to Strava? This is not a vacation to Mallorca to see Ray for God’s sake! Why is anyone compelled to go there and then post an activity to Strava? Just saying.
Perhaps because not everybody believes the media reports on it word for word (like you seem to do) and are curious enough to want to find out? Just saying.
North Korea has certainly murdered fewer US Citizens that the US. Probably even as a percentage, let alone as a total.
It’s not the media at all. But thanks for presuming you know anything, which clearly you don’t. About every person or organization that has ever investigated North Korea has come to nearly the same conclusion, most of them are not the media. These conclusion aren’t new, recent, or even questioned
as they are supported by years and years of facts. link to en.wikipedia.org; link to ewtn.co.uk; link to persecution.org
@ okrunnenr: I can see not going to North Korea, but at this time the ethics of what’s happening in the US is better? An elected president (ie the majority thinks putting him in power is a good idea) who makes up his own truths and rules, thinks he’s above the law and acts accordingly, breaks down the government, threatens to pull out of international treaties meant to protect against aggression from dictators invading other countries for no reason is ok? He even considers said dictator as a personal friend. Pretty hypocritical to be pointing fingers at other countries when it comes to ethics.
This article has me worried: I posted a strava activity recorded in China yesterday…
Isn’t there any way to do a class action against Strava?
So disappointed I renewed my premium account with the family offer, if I knew about this I would be almost ready to terminate the account totally.
Let’s all write to MyWhoosh people and ask them to be kind enough to work also on an alternative Strava platform: they’re doing a great job with virtual indoor sport, after all (just joking, but would be on top of that in a second if they were really doing this).
Recently received a “shadow ban” from posting content in my own club page after being critical of Strava’s shit policy on links that was recently reversed. Apparently pointing out that the spam wave never occurred and it was about preventing people from leaving the platform irked people… Strava is run by idiots
It’s a bit weird, as I’m following an Iranian cyclist, who posts activity carried out in Iran. I make no judgement either way on the Iranian regime, but he’s “just a guy” and he posts really interesting photos (landscapes, mostly) which have shown me a different image of Iran to the hot, desert country I had a mental image of.
And surely the hope is that, one day, North Korea (and Iran) are freed from tyrannical leadership and become open, functioning sovereign states within the United Nations family?
I have a number of Iranian expat friends. Iran is absolutely beautiful. Much of it looks like Colorado. There’s also a massive divide between the people and their totalitarian regime. They’re pretty educated and cosmopolitan. Couldn’t be more different from, for instance, Afghanistan, where the Taliban actually has a ton of support from the populace.
Strava, some of the finest enshitification you will see
Another WEIRD crack down by Strava? What about posting links or URLs in my activities?! Why does Strava strip those out? I thought it was a social media app. Which product manager or executive came up with that idea?
At this point I’m wondering why Strava chooses to be bound by US law? They are big enough to easily move the company to a decent country without these ridiculous “export” ban.
1. They are established as a corporation under the USA law.
2. They have their headquarters and legal residence in the USA.
3. They have most of their paying user base in the USA.
Pick any of those.
Typo I guess: …. field trip the*n* ….
Great read.
In North Korea all KOMs are held by the Young Marshall.
We are all lucky Zwift didn’t use North Korea as their fake Watopia GPS location 😂
My guess would be that this is more to do with strava working with the US Gov after accidentally revealing operations and clandestine sites in previous years, so just wiping any activity without question. Better to reinstate with an argument than to accidentally keep up data that gives away classified info.
Totally agree, I want to replace Strava, don’t care for their ridiculous interpretation of the rules. No more payments to Strava.
@Ray: Out of curiosity, have you ever been approached to do consulting work by investors of a platform like Strava?
Strava’s Covid-time funding round was led by Sequoia Capital. They usually know pretty well what they’re doing. But even after Strava canned the Co-founder CEO two years ago after that price hike PR disaster they seem to have no direction at all. They’ve been raising money for almost 15 years with no real chance for an IPO in sight and it doesn’t look like the two most obvious buyers (Apple, Nike) are interested in taking them over at this stage?
Yup, I do consulting for various investment entities from time to time. Mostly more Wall Street types than PE/VC types, that basically want the landscape distilled down to a 1hr call. So basically, talking all the bits/discussions from months/years of posts & podcast episodes, and giving it to them in a single hour, covering whatever topic they want (watches, action cams, drones, etc…).
As for Strava, I actually don’t think their overall company direction is that far off (setting app fiasco aside). Instead, I think it’s somehow in their DNA to try and make a PR mess out of everything (every single time). I guess this was just such a good example. I approached them days before I published, with simple questions and trying to understand the issue at hand. I volleyed back and forth numerous times, basically outlining that they were confused on the legal basis. As every single person and expert has weighed in here and elsewhere on the internet, Strava is factually wrong here. It’s not even close to debatable. Like, hard wrong. Their lawyer simply doesn’t understand the laws at play. Period.
Thus, my days of volleying gave them all the time in the world to say “Hey, one sec, let us look into this more closely and see if we’re misunderstanding”. But nope, they just went all typical Strava “we are right, we know better, we like PR fiascos”. I don’t understand how that ethos has managed to permeate through multiple CEO changes. This whole thing was such an easy one, I threw them a gimme to see if they could fix it, and they doubled-down on it.
For everyone mentioning Cuba, we as in the US, maintain a base there. There are plenty of American in Cuba, I only suspect the ones that are not there by choice, are probably not using Strava
The US base in Cuba is sorta quirky though, in that you can’t go from the base (aka Gitmo) into Cuba proper. It sits on the edge of the island, partially restricted by a bay+river, and partially by really big fences. In other words, Gitmo there is actually much more akin to a separate country that happens to be stapled onto Cuba, with little in the way of border crossing allowances.
In fact, if you fly to Gitmo, you won’t overly Cuba, but rather, go all the way around it, approaching into the south. Example flight: link to flightaware.com
“Now, before we go to far, let’s just take two seconds to do a quick explainer on North Korea travel.”
Please don’t miss the opportunity to use a third spelling of too in one sentence.🙂
Achievement unlcoked. :)
“Google has better lawyers than Strava.”
Yep.
Until recently, I couldn’t access my bank’s public website (with things like branch locations and hours) at work or on my phone due to overly aggressive GDPR compliance. I’m assuming it was because the IP address wasn’t whitelisted to be located in the United States.
Reading this article, I could hear Ray thinking several times „WTF?? I mean…? What.. How… WHY?“ when trying to figure out Strava‘s thinking in all of this mess 😂
How are users supposed to know when they are breaking Strava terms and conditions if Strava does not provide a list of places in thier terms and conditions. Also, my watch automatically uploads all my runs and uploads to the garmin service, Strava then downloads them from that service, so the fault would be Stravas for downloading a run located in North Korea. If strava does not want that data, thier service can just filter it out. Strava seems to be run by people who can’t think straight.
“Strava then downloads them from that service”
Nope. That’s not how it works. Garmin Connect uploads to Strava.
You are mistaken. Strava pulls this data from Garmin Connect through Garmin’s API. Garmin does not *push* the data to all the services you add.
“When new activities are added to your Garmin Connect account, Garmin notifies Strava and other connected services through what’s called a “webhook” or “push notification” system. Here’s how it works:
1. When you complete and sync an activity to Garmin Connect, the data is stored in Garmin’s database
2. Garmin’s system then sends a notification to all authorized third-party services (like Strava) that you have new data available
3. Upon receiving this notification, Strava makes an API call back to Garmin to retrieve the specific activity data
4. Strava then processes and adds this activity to your Strava account”
As an application developer myself, I realize how stupid it is for Strava to blame the user for “uploading” data from North Korea, when it is Strava that not only downloaded the data, but also is fully capable of reading that data and making the decision of whether to publish it or not. The data first goes up to Garmin servers and Garmin has nothing against GPS data from North Korea. Only Strava has a problem with that data, and it is Strava that downloads that data by choice. It is not technically possible for a user to upload the data to Garmin (which they are fully allowed to do) and then prevent the data from being accepted by Strava. It is Strava that has to make that choice. The whole situation is complete stupidity on Strava’s part. Imagine for a second that this export ban was more comprehensive across many countries and you had various GPS data publishing services operating out of various regions under different export bans. It cannot reasonably be left to the user to preemtively have knowledge of this and manage this while they travel. The simple solution is for Strava to be less retarded.
Well, I stand corrected.
But in the end that has very little bearing for the matter at hand. You as the user created the link between your Garmin Connect account and Strava account. It’s your responsibility as a Strava user that the data offered over that link complies with Stravas TOS or face the consequences.
This isn’t about whether Strava could simply filter out unwanted data. It’s about whether it’s within their rights to terminate your user account if you offer up such data for import (be that via direct upload or by linking Strava to a third party data source).
I would assume that as long as their TOS clearly spell out that importing activities recorded in Norh Korea will result in the termination of your user account, they would be in the clear. The only argument here is that Stravas TOS might not as clear on this matter as Strava claim them to be.
Nevertheless, yes, Strava’s stance on the matter is boneheaded and stupid (as is par for the course for Strava). If they don’t want to host activities recorded in North Korea, they should simply filter them.
Hey Strava,
I just noticed the message in this activity: link to strava.com
“You’ve been tagged in this activity so data shown might not reflect your personal effort. ”
Does it mean that any idiot can freely tag other users, and based on that Strava is taking actions?
May I know who that user was?
Have you ever considered banning such users?
What you gone do about it?
Why is it allowed to mess up others’ own activities?
My understanding is that being “tagged in an activity” means that a friend added you to their activity.
i.e. Your a friend recorded an activity, posted it to Strava, pressed Add Friends / Add Others, and selected your profile, which caused an invitation to be sent to you. But you had to explicitly accept the invitation for this action to be completed.
If that’s not what happened in your case, I’m not sure why you’re getting that message.
More information about tagging friends:
link to support.strava.com
You can prevent people from tagging or mentioning you by changing your privacy settings:
link to support.strava.com
So in the case of the activity you linked, it really doesn’t look like you were added to another friend’s activity.
It might just be a weird bug that you’re seeing that message. I don’t think it’s meant to suggest that your own activity stats were messed up due to a tag, only that if you were truly added to a friend’s activity, the stats from that activity would not necessarily be the same as the stats from your actual effort (obviously).
I thought we believed in free speech and inclusivity? Or have I got this wrong? If there’s a problem with the run, like far too fast. just flag it
No wonder I havent been able to find Kim Jong Un’s activities!
There are segments in North Korea, with leaderboards:
Run segments:
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
Ride segments:
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
link to strava.com
Plenty more.
“…The best I could easily discern was a list from Oregon State University, that seems to indicate it’s: Cuba, Iran, North Korea, and Syria…”
Hmm. I’ve cycled in Cuba, and Strava shows the posts I made from there in 2017. BUT, nothing appears on Strava’s global heatmap from Cuba, nor on my personal heatmap. I will remain anon. to protect my account.
Agreed regarding the basis for legal concern being weak at best. I can see much more credence to enforcing people listed on the OFAC’s SDN (Specially Designated Nationals) List, which is: “…a list of individuals and companies owned or controlled by, or acting for or on behalf of, targeted countries. It also lists individuals, groups, and entities, such as terrorists and narcotics traffickers designated under programs that are not country-specific. Collectively, such individuals and companies are called “Specially Designated Nationals” or “SDNs.” Their assets are blocked and U.S. persons are generally prohibited from dealing with them.” – Taken from the OFAC website link to ofac.treasury.gov. Perhaps they do have something behind the scenes that scrubs this list of SDN’s as well but that doesn’t address why they would terminate an account with little to no legal basis for uploading of an activity from Garmin hardware which has coordinates in North Korea.
So… there is an international Pyongyang marathon due in April 2025. First time after 2019 marathon will be open also for foreigners (as I read, tours to PY will restart in April). And with foreign runners that means probably also lots of problems with Strava…
I ran PY Marathon in 2017 and i’m still on the segments I passed. At that time, it was not a problem loading an activity from DPRK to Strava. There are a few run segments in Pyongyang, and most of them are connected with this marathon. Only other people outside the marathon route (and outside days of the marathon) were probably resident diplomats before 2020 (germany, sweden, UK, poland,…). As tourists we were not allowed to wander or run around Pyongyang alone, except on Yanggakdo island. After 2020 only activities from russians were recorded on Strava (i found an activity from 2024), as foreigners (including diplomats) haven’t returned back yet.
As a sanctions lawyer, I appreciate this!
This is super stupid. The moment you sync your watch with your phone (given there’s internet) your violating this strange strava-only rule. I wonder if there would be time (and how much?) to quickly go to Strava and delete the activity before they ban you. Or is it too late? ’cause when you sync the watch it actually appears on Strava before it even appears in Garmin connect.
Strava is just begging people to unsubscribe from their services with almost every decision they make towards company’s direction lately.
I cancelled my Strava account when they changed their policy, now back to a free account and there’s no feature I’m actually missing. I just became a Ray’s supporter with the money I saved, and got no discount for posting this :-)
2 more things we could do to show our disapproval:
1. mark all activities private for one month, and give no kudos either.
2. leave all brand clubs, i.e. see fewer adds in your feed.
If enough Strava users did this, maybe it would make a noticeable dip in their stats.
One more reason to delete my strava account. One less us based social media. The world is becoming totally nuts. Too much strafe and conflict.
And a decade in and we still don’t have Zwift maps for Zwift activities on Strava. Such an easy thing to implement and crickets.
“…we take a broad, zero-tolerance approach”
And this brain-dead logic is why Strava will never see a single cent from me.
How fascinating! And yet again, Strava doing its best to just piss people off!
I was interested by the list at the very end so I decided to go and have a quick satellite tour of all four countries. Sure enough there clearly recorded roots on the Strava map in all of those countries other than North Korea.
Siri, it doesn’t have many outside of Damascus, but it has quite a lot in Damascus and if you zoom in a little further there are several in the far east of the country as well as the south and the west. Iran has got loads, Cuba has got loads, especially for its size. There seems to be very variable interpretation of the sanctions even within the Strava household and as you say, Strava are not providing any services within North Korea so it’s all BS.
Ah, the irony is exquisite. A doctoral student, diligently researching the enigmatic Hermit Kingdom, embarks on a run within its borders, only to find herself exiled from Strava’s digital realm upon her return. Strava’s draconian enforcement of U.S. sanctions, leading to outright account termination, raises questions about their overzealous compliance measures. One must ponder: in their quest to avoid geopolitical entanglements, has Strava become an unwitting enforcer, punishing the innocuous alongside the illicit?
I just checked the heat map and there are a couple segments still there. I gave up after finding 3 of them. The others at the very north end of NK appear to be on the China side assuming the Yalu River is the defining borded
Funny side note. I notice that Strava was looking for an Deputy GC to join their team. Perhaps they were undermanned.
Sadder still STRAVA has dumped South Korea as well! Wtf!
Of course this is due to some ,”restrictive BS” the gov has levied agsinst the app. Yet, sadly, Strava rolled over like a lame dog destined to become 보신탕 (Korean dog soup).