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Hands-On: Elite’s New $799 Suito Smart Trainer (with cassette)

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It’s very likely that the just announced Elite Suito will be the trainer to beat for 2019 in terms of value for the money. In many ways, this is repeating Elite’s successes of 2017 with the original Elite Direto which dramatically shifted the price equation downwards. Just like then, it appears to be the ideal balance of functionality and price.

Which isn’t to say it does anything earth-shatteringly new from a technology standpoint. At this point in the trainer industry, I don’t think we’ll see any major shifts tech-wise. Instead, it’s about creating better value for the money (read: continued lower pricing), and in some cases various accessories.  The Elite Suito will however look dramatically different than existing Elite trainers, but it shares many aspects of the Elite Direto lineup. But there are some improvements over that product line, notably that it’s quieter and responds faster in ERG mode.

Though, before we talk all tech, let’s just talk. As in, how to pronounce it. Which is always the discussion for any Elite product. This time, the proper pronunciation is akin to sweet-o. Like Cheeto, but, with sweets. You can add some Italian flare in there if you want, it’s optional. Also optional, but highly recommend – is watching the below video recap of everything (it includes the audio tests too!).

Oh, and note – this isn’t a review. While I do have a near-final production unit, there’s some minor tweaks to be had – mainly in firmware, but also even to the packaging. This was considered a test production run, and based on that test there’s a few tiny things they want to do. Point being – things could change in terms of my impressions. They’re expected to do final production runs in about 2 weeks, with European deliveries occurring in early August, and US deliveries the first week of September (the first few weeks of production actually go to North America, but due to boat shipping times, they’ll arrive after Euro deliveries).

And lastly, as usual, this is just a media loaner unit. Once I’m done with the full review I’ll ship it back to Elite and go out and get my own. You can use the links at the bottom to help support the site.

The Tech Specs:

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So, let’s get straight into the tech side of the question. Ain’t got no time to waste! Here’s your bulleted top-line tech specs for the Elite Suito.

– Direct drive trainer: This means you remove your rear wheel
– Includes Shimano 11sp cassette (Shimano 105, 11-28)
– Flywheel: 3.5kg/7.7lbs
– Max Simulated Incline: 15%
– Max Resistance: 1900w @ 40kph, 2900w @ 60kph
– Stated Accuracy: +/- 2.5%
– Legs: Adjustable in/out to consolidate, as well as individually adjustable feet
– Sound: Quieter than a Direto, not as silent as a KICKR CORE (less than your fan though)
– Handle: Yes, includes a handle to move around/store
– Protocol Compatibility: ANT+ FE-C, ANT +Power, ANT+ Speed & Cadence, Bluetooth FTMS (Trainer Control), Bluetooth Power, Bluetooth Speed & Cadence
– App compatible: Every app out there basically (Zwift, TrainerRoad, Rouvy, Road Grand Tours, Sufferfest, Kinomap, etc…)
– Compatibility: 130/135 QR, 142×12 thru-axle included (and 148×12 Boost adapter available)
– Weight: 14.5kg / 31.96lbs
– Includes a Zwift 30-day voucher/card in the box

So more or less, it’s very similar to the Wahoo KICKR CORE in most categories. The main differences are the KICKR CORE goes to 16% (vs 15% here), the CORE is slightly quieter, and the CORE has a bigger flywheel (5.45kg vs Suito’s 3.5kg). On the flip-side, the Suito includes a cassette on the unit so that’ll save you ~$60 (+ $15-$20 in tools if you don’t have them), and comes fully assembled and has adjustable feet. Further, it supports proper Bluetooth FTMS, and includes cadence inline (a big deal for Apple TV users).

So, let’s start with the box side of things. Cause that’s where I started. Here it is:

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Inside you’ll find the trainer 100% fully assembled. Well, I suppose you have to plug in the power cable and then put the skewer on the trainer. But that takes like 6 seconds. No leg assembly to deal with like so many past Elite trainers. Finally!

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Speaking of that power cord, the unit I received included a rather short 1.5-meter cord cord. However, I’ve been told that starting sometime in August the production line will switch to a 2.5-meter power cord. For consumers that receive a unit between those two points, they can simply hit up Elite support and they’ll send them the longer cord gratis.

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The most notable thing about the Elite Suito is that it includes a cassette. This is the only other trainer except the $1,199 Wahoo KICKR 2018 (and all top-end KICKR prior to that) to include a cassette. While cassettes are hardly expensive, I’ve always found it fascinating (read: stupid) that more higher end trainers don’t come with them. A typical cassette will set you back about $50-$60, and then another $15-$20 in tools if you don’t already have them. So for a $799 trainer to include a cassette is a huge industry shift. Whereas the $899 Wahoo KICKR CORE doesn’t include a cassette.

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That cassette is an 11-speed Shimano 105 (11-28), and will work just fine with 11-speed SRAM if the rest of your drivetrain is like that (as is mine). Additionally, you can always swap out the cassette for other cassettes including Shimano & SRAM 9/10/11 speed cassettes, or there’s a separate freehub adapter available for Campagnolo 9/10/11 speed cassettes.

One minor tidbit that I noticed immediately upon my first pedal strokes was that without a tiny bit of chain lube on my otherwise dry chain, the Suito sounded fairly loud/rough. But after adding a few drops of lube I was good to go. As a result, Elite will be including a tiny little bit of chain/cassette oil in the box so that if your bike is not as ideally maintained (like mine), your trainer will still sound great.

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Speaking of attachment type things, the unit includes 130 & 135mm quick release compatibility for standard road bike skewers. Additionally, in the box is a 142mm thru-axle adapter. If you’ve got a 148x12mm thru-axle (Boost) or a 135x10mm or 135x12mm setup, then Elite has separate accessories for those. Again, this is notable as there’s a number of other trainers that don’t include the 148x12mm thru-axle adapters in the box at the lower price points.

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And lastly on the accessory front, it includes a front riser/wheel block. Elite started adding this to the Direto trainers last year (2018), and has continued that down to the Elite Suito as well:

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The Suito includes a 3.5kg (7.7lbs) flywheel. This is smaller than the $899 Wahoo KICKR CORE at 5.4kg (12lbs) and less compared to the $749 Tacx Flux S trainer at 6.7KG flywheel (which can simulate 32KG). Flywheel weight is generally what drives how realistic the road-like feel is. But there’s not a perfect 1:1 mapping there. Companies can do various secondary belts that multiply the flywheel effect (as Elite has done in the past), or in the case of the Tacx Neo, have no physical flywheel at all, but a virtual one. Still, from a road-like feel standpoint it’s about the same as an Elite Direto to me, and not as good as the Wahoo KICKR CORE – felt primarily during accelerations.

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The belt is also a tiny bit wider than the Direto belt, while the case is obviously much thinner than the Direto, with both sides being two sheets of metal versus the plastic shell found on the Direto.

Finally, before we get to the pedaling side of things, let’s talk protocols. The unit supports ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart in the most open way of any company out there. It supports all of the following:

– ANT+ FE-C Trainer Control (including power/speed/cadence)
– ANT+ Power Meter Broadcast (including power/speed/cadence)
– ANT+ Speed/Cadence Sensor Broadcast
– Bluetooth Smart FTMS Trainer Control (including power/speed/cadence)
– Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Broadcast (including power/speed/cadence)
– Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Sensor Broadcast

Neither Wahoo nor Kinetic support this. And Tacx is a bit of a mixed bag on the FTMS side.

The inclusion of cadence in all of the signals is a huge deal for Apple TV users, whereby Apple TV is limited to two Bluetooth Smart connections (plus the Apple TV remote). So Wahoo users for example have to choose between having heart rate or cadence, whereas with the Elite Suito you’ll be able to pair the trainer and get all the data: Control/Power/Speed/Cadence + heart rate from your own HR sensor.

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Also of note is that the Elite Suito includes their ‘power meter link’ feature, which means the trainer can pair to your power meter to have the two values match (effectively ensuring the trainer matches your power meter). I’m not usually a huge fan of using this feature on any trainer unless you’ve got a really specific use case. But it’s there for those that want it.

On more thing before we talk first ride is the folding capability. The unit folds up easily so it can fit into smaller places. I suppose you can easily lie it down on it’s back (side?) too, and it’ll probably fit under some beds. The stack height when folded this way I measured at approximately 8in/20cm including the skewer:

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And here’s a before/after with its legs extended:

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Ok, with all that covered, let’s get onto riding it.

First Ride Data:

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Technically speaking, I think I’m on my 2nd ride by now. But the first ride was just some quick setup type validation, whereas this second ride was a little bit longer. Definitely not a full test, but enough just to get the feel for things.  Keep in mind the firmware isn’t finished on this, and there’s already some tweaks in the pipeline based on some of my initial ride feedback.

For both of my initial rides I just used Zwift in regular simulation mode (non-workout mode). I’ll likely take TrainerRoad for a spin sometime later today (Monday), if life cooperates, allowing me to test out ERG mode.

Speaking of Zwift, one semi-unique selling point here is the inclusion of a free 1-month trial of Zwift. Many other trainers include 7-day trials, but 1-month is pretty rare. There’s a little credit card thingy found in the box, and on the back of it is a disturbingly long code you can input into Zwift for the 1-month of freedom.

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In my case, I’ve long been paying for Zwift, so this wasn’t terribly useful for me. Though, at least it was pretty. I cracked open the app and got Zwift all paired up. Apparently this is Suito #14 off the assembly line.

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You’ll notice I’ve got it paired as a controllable trainer, the power meter, and then the cadence as well. For the heart rate I ended up on a TICKR FIT for this ride – all paired via Bluetooth Smart.

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At this point, off I went – pedaling away. I ended up doing a few loops of Zwift’s NYC Central Park, which includes some nice rollers and a few brief climbs up to about 12% I believe (on the park perimeter loop):

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From a ride feel standpoint it was mostly good, though certainly not at the same level as something much higher end (but also not horribly far away either). As I often note – at the end of the day I’m still staring at a wall inside, there’s only so much a company can do to simulate the outdoors in any meaningful way. But still, accelerations and such were fine – and there wasn’t the grinding feeling found on some lower-end trainers.

Sound-level wise, I’d wager it was quieter than an Elite Direto, but certainly not at the same near-silent level of a Wahoo KICKR/CORE. I’ve got a video coming up sometime today over on YouTube that’ll cover exactly this. Just running out of hours in the day this past weekend.  Also, no issues with the quality of the included cassette. Not that I’d expect that on a 105 either. Sure, the greater Shimano 105 groupset isn’t the pinnacle of engineering tolerances compared to an Ultegra or Dura-Ace one, but for the most part the 105 cassettes are just fine (even when mixed in with a SRAM RED eTAP groupset like I was doing).

But now it’s time to shift our focus to the power accuracy bits. Keeping in mind that this *will* change. Mostly because Elite has already stated it’ll change, specifically around the sprint accuracy. Ideally/hopefully, it’ll change for the better. Here’s the data from this ride, compared against the Favero Assioma Duo pedals and the 4iiii Precision Pro power meters.  Full DCR Analyzer data set here:

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(Note: I’ve divided this ride up into two chunks, because Zwift on iOS has a bit of a weird quirk where if you change to a different app for a second, it’ll create a delay in the data, so I did that around the 17 minute marker, and then things were offset for a few seconds. So I’ve adjusted for that in the later graphs.)

What you see above is that for the most part the Elite Suito is similar to the other power meters (namely the Favero Assioma Duo pedals via an Edge 530) during the majority of it. We see it slightly lower, as expected, since it’s further down the drive chain. Oddly the 4iiii Precision Pro unit connected to a Garmin MARQ over ANT+ showed a number of dropouts. I don’t believe I’ve seen this on any previous rides with this combination, so it’s unclear if this is something in the DCR Cave for this ride that caused that.

If we zoom into the sprint a bit, we’ll get a bit more clarity on things at higher outputs. In both the above/below graphs I’ve added smoothing of 10-seconds to make it easier to see. It seems highly unlikely the 4iiii Precision Pro power is accurate at nearly 800w for 10-second smoothed value. Whereas the Elite Suito and known-good Favero Assioma pedals are near identical.

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However, you’ll notice that at the end of the sprint, the Elite Suito seems to somewhat ignore the pullback in power, likely due to the speed not catching up, and throwing the algorithm a bit. The Elite Suito (like many trainers these days), doesn’t have a built-in power meter. I don’t particularly care whether a unit does or doesn’t have a power meter in it, some of the highest end trainers don’t have them and report perfectly accurate power. All I care about is whether the number is accurate, the means are irrelevant in 2019.

Now what you’ll see a bit later on is the small issue I saw on my first test ride (more of a quick break-in), whereby the Suito will undercut power on less-intense sprints. So in the above case, it was a very rapid sprint. Whereas in the below case it was more of a gradual/sustained build. And it’s oddly in that case where I see the undercuts:

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Though, on the second one which is sharper, you’ll see it appears to slightly overshoot. Like I said, some imperfections here to work on. Again, in talking with Elite about this, they believe they can adjust things and address it before it goes into production in the next few weeks.

As a reminder, the Wahoo KICKR CORE also overshot sprints when it first came out – and took about three months to get it addressed (after it started shipping). So this isn’t really unchartered territory by companies. In fact, the Tacx Neo 2 also had some sprint accuracy issues that took a bit of time to sort out.  And hey, CycleOps still (two years later) is the favorite among Zwift sprinters for generously overshooting sprints.

Just a brief note on cadence – in case you were wondering. The Elite Suito uses a bit of black magic to determine cadence, just like most other companies (except Tacx with the NEO2, where they are sensing the pedal instead). Here’s how that cadence data looks on the Suito:

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You’ll notice it’s pretty darn close, with roughly two blips of a few seconds being higher/lower than the others. I suspect for most people that aren’t doing hyper-specific cadence drills, this is more than adequate. Whereas if you want more accurate cadence you’ll want to pick up a separate cadence sensor.

As part of my full in-depth review down the road once things start shipping, I’ll dive into many more data sets across multiple apps and different scenarios. This is just a bit of a quick first look at things. And again, I expect (hope) things will change prior to shipping.

Update – ERG Mode Test: I’ve now had a chance to run it through a nice proper 30×30 TrainerRoad ERG mode session. This tests how quickly the trainer can respond to shifts in power, as well as stability of holding power. For these tests I disable any form of power matching or smoothing, and I use the exact same custom workout across all trainers. Per typical recommendation of TrainerRoad and manufacturers, I put the bike’s gearing in the small ring in the front and mid-way on the rear cassette.

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The test itself is a very short build, followed by 30 seconds on (this time at ~400w, or 396w to be precise), and then ‘off’ for 30-seconds at about 142. Rinse and repeat 8 times, then a short section at about 285w afterwards.  Here’s how that looked. Note: Ignore the blue line, I had reduced the intensity prior to the start, but TrainerRoad doesn’t show that (somehow, still, all these years later).

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The green line indicates the specified power, and the yellow line indicates the actual power. For responsiveness, the unit took on average 3-seconds to adjust between 142w and ~400w, pretty consistently each time.

2019-07-15 18.03.16 2019-07-15 18.03.39 2019-07-15 18.13.40

Now, one oddity that did occur was on the 6th interval, it simply didn’t change at all. Whether this was a communications issue (extremely likely) or something else is unknown. About mid-way through the interval it ‘took’ and changed the wattage. Typically this happens due to wireless interference, though I’d have somewhat expected that TrainerRoad would be sending commands every second to maintain the interval wattage (to mitigate exactly this scenario). Perhaps it does and the Elite Suito didn’t respond. I’ll follow-up with TrainerRoad.

From a power accuracy standpoint, here’s how it compared against the Favero Assioma Duo and 4iiii Precision Pro (dual as well). In this case we’re looking at ensuring the trainer isn’t ‘lying’ about the power meter numbers it says it’s holding to the app (there’s a long history of trainers that do that). So effectively using the power meter as the arbitrator of things. Here’s that data set:

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That’s super-duper close. Some slight variations at the peak of each interval, mostly due to my cadence drifting a bit, which means you’re going to get slightly different transmission rates on the power meters which in turn impacts recording timing. But really darn close. I’m content with that for this stage of things, but want to ensure any changes coming for the other bits of firmware fixes don’t impact this.

(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool.  It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)

Product Comparison:

I’ve added the Elite Suito into the product comparison database, and for the purposes of this post I’ve compared it against the Wahoo KICKR CORE, the Tacx Flux S, and the Elite Direto 2018. I suppose I could have thrown in the Tacx Flux 2, but you can do so yourself via the product comparison tool here – adding in any other trainers as you see fit.

Function/FeatureElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated August 6th, 2019 @ 3:36 pmNew Window
Price for trainer$799 (incl cassette)$849 ($799 for 2017 models)$749USD/€599$899
Attachment TypeDirect Drive (No Wheel)Direct Drive (No Wheel)Direct Drive (no wheel)Direct Drive (No Wheel)
Available today (for sale)Yes - Ships Aug 2019YesYEsYes
Availability regionsGlobalGlobalGlobalGlobal
Wired or Wireless data transmission/controlWirelessWirelessWirelessWireless
Power cord requiredYes (no control w/o)Yes (no control w/o)YesYes
Flywheel weight3.5kg/7.7lbs4.2KG/9.2LBS6.7kg (simulated 25kg)12.0lbs/5.44kgs
ResistanceElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Can electronically control resistance (i.e. 200w)YesYesYesYes
Includes motor to drive speed (simulate downhill)NoNoNoNo
Maximum wattage capability1,900w @ 40KPH / 2,900w @ 60KPH1,400w @ 40KPH / 2,200w @ 60KPH1,500w @ 40KPH1800w
Maximum simulated hill incline15%14%10%16%
FeaturesElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Ability to update unit firmwareYesYesYesYes
Measures/Estimates Left/Right PowerNo9EUR one-time feeNoNo
Can rise/lower bike or portion thereofNoNoNoWith KICKR CLIMB accessory
Can directionally steer trainer (left/right)NoNoNoNo
Can rock side to side (significantly)NoNoNoNo
Can simulate road patterns/shaking (i.e. cobblestones)NoNoNoNo
AccuracyElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Includes temperature compensationYesN/AYesYes
Support rolldown procedure (for wheel based)YesYesYesYes
Supported accuracy level+/- 2.5%+/- 2% (Sept 2018 models, +/- 2.5% for earlier models)+/-3%+/- 2%
Trainer ControlElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Allows 3rd party trainer controlYesYesYesYes
Supports ANT+ FE-C (Trainer Control Standard)YesYesYesYEs
Supports Bluetooth Smart control for 3rd partiesYesYesYesYEs
Data BroadcastElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Can re-broadcast power data as open ANT+YesYesYesYes
Can re-broadcast data as open Bluetooth SmartYesYesYesYes
PurchaseElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Amazon LinkN/ALinkLinkN/A
Clever Training - Save with the VIP programLinkLinkLinkLink
Clever Training EuropeN/ALinkN/ALink
DCRainmakerElite SuitoElite Direto (2018)Tacx Flux SWahoo Fitness KICKR CORE
Review LinkLinkLinkLinkLink

Two minor tidbits that don’t really show up as well on this chart is that I don’t find the Tacx Flux S road-feel all that great (kinda sounds grinding-like), and it doesn’t fold up at all. Nor does things like setup time or included Zwift/app trials. Perhaps considerations for the future.

Again, don’t forget you can mix and match and create your own product comparison graph/chart using the tool here.

Wrap-Up:

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When it comes to indoor training in 2019, there’s essentially two ways companies can ‘innovate’. The first is by advancing new technology that changes the ride experience in a meaningful way. For example, a couple years back we saw Wahoo add elevation via the KICKR CLIMB accessory, or Tacx prior to that with the exceedingly quiet NEO.  The second way to innovate is on price and value, which is what Elite has focused on in recent years – and that’s precisely what they’ve done with the Suito.

They’ve essentially lowered the price point of a trainer in this class by about $175-$180, once you factor in the cost of a new cassette and any required tools (and I suppose slightly more if you include the free month of Zwift).  But it’s also not quite as easy as that. After all, unlike the Wahoo KICKR CORE, this does include cadence over Bluetooth Smart – something of growing importance for Apple TV users.  And it has other smaller touches like adjustable feet for uneven floors.

Of course, as I’ve noted, it’s not perfect either. It undercuts the sprints in its current pre-production form (just like the KICKR CORE did for the first few months), and it’s not got the near silence or the road-feel of the KICKR CORE.

Like I said at the beginning though, I suspect this will be the trainer to beat value-wise this year. Of course, Eurobike is still some 6-7 weeks away (first week of September), where we usually see new trainer announcements. Though, true to historical form – Elite will be long-since shipping the Suito before those companies even announce, let alone ship anything new (if anything at all).

With that – thanks for reading!

(Update: You can now pre-order the Suito from Clever Training, which helps support the site and gets you 10% off using DCR Coupon Code DCR10BTF, also, free US shipping. Delivery timeframe is the first week of September for US orders, and early to mid-August for European orders. Pricing is $799USD/€699/£599/$999CDN/$999AUS)

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78 Comments

  1. Cobus

    What happened to the Zumo?

    • It’s been sunsetted. It was only offered to a handful of companies and then ran into technical issues for a good chunk of the winter last year. I understand those may be resolved now, but Elite sees this as their better bet going forward.

  2. Fabio

    Ray, i’m an happy direto user but for me there are 2 issue i’ve experienced.

    1) it is slow in erg mode and when it has to simulate incline changes (in zwift this is really evident)

    2) the belt issue: a lot of direto needs to replace the belt (and another part inluded in elite kit) due to problem in the tension.

    hope this new trainer will solve both problems

    • 1) Yup, ERG mode is one of those things addressed. I’m looking to give that a whirl. Though, ERG mode and incline mode can’t be combined. In Zwift workout mode, all trainers actually ignore the incline, and just use ERG mode. But Zwift has always been a bit funky (imho) on how well it executes ERG mode compared to TrainerRoad. I know Zwift would disagree with that, but I find TR’s implementation far more consistent and precise in my testing than Zwift’s. I don’t know why that is, or if perhaps it’s tied to certain protocols, etc…

      2) This does contain a new belt. Will see if it resolves things. Though I don’t think it was really a widespread issue. Certainly some people ran into it (just as they do/did on the KICKR), but not something I saw a ton of feedback on.

      Cheers!

    • Fabio

      Thx ray. I agree ERG mode in zwift is something different because it is not so ‘active’ as in trainer road and it let you stay ‘near’ the target watt but for me is one of the pro even if i admit that it is not what the erg mode shoud be (i often do workouts with erg disabled)

      IN zwift it is really evident when incline changes quickly such as in the London Metro or in watopia on the bridge in the jungle. Sometime it takes seconds to feel what is happening on screen

      anyway is what they have really improoved with the drivo 2..so i hope it will be the same with this ‘direto 2’… hope we won’t see another trainer called direto 2 with something more than this Suito.

    • ArT

      I use Direto for the second year, I do not understand how you can have problems with the belt. I do not do anything there and it’s ok. When it comes to changing the load, you exaggerated a few seconds. It’s about 1s! It’s enough for a real ride.

    • gaetano Mercante

      This is Gaetano from Elite R&D.
      Actually with Direto there were some broken belts. we’ve investigated a lot about that to determinate the cause.
      Thanks to this investigation, the belts have a new compound that prevents the breakage.
      Furthermore on Suito, we’ve increased the belt section to make it even stronger.
      Moreover we’ve improved the qualifying procedure of all the belts.

    • Adam

      Hi Gaetano,
      I have had a Direto for 18 months, have had two broken belts and a 10% low reading of power. Australian importer has been nice and all providing new belts, but I have been so disappointed with it. Currently asking the bike store I purchased it from to replace of refund since repair has not solved issue.
      Sure it may only be a few units, but I seem to be one of those few and not happy. The 10% low reading when compared to PowerTap P1 is really frustrating.

    • Fabio

      as u can read from gaetano, the first gen of direto has had several belt problems, forcing elite to replace both belt and tension system with a kit.

      Happy to hear this issue s been adressed

    • Adam

      Hey Fabio, not sure if you were replying to me, but yeah I have had two of those kits, and still have problems.
      Glad other people have had this solved, but not me 🙁

  3. tizzledk

    I have been very happy with my Direto, although not so happy with the lack of firmware updates (they are just going to do one almost 2 years later). This is a great move again by them because they get to beat everyone to the punch and as. you said getting a cassette included makes this a huge win for them. If they don’t have too many kinks this should be another great deal and maybe an upgrade for me. 🙂

  4. Chris

    Have they given any indication of availability for an XDR freehub? Desperately trying to find a direct-drive trainer that can match an AXS drivetrain (12mm TA for what it’s worth)

  5. PeterF

    Speaking of trainers Ray, I seem to remember you had plans to compare the various offerings with regards to their “real” simulated grading / max wattage. Ie the most resistance a trainer can generate at a low (say 10kph) speed, without it getting so choppy and uneven that normal pedalling is impaired. Still on your todo, or did it turn out to be technically impossible to test?

    • Vaguely still on the to-do list. The challenge is part testing, but also honestly figuring out how to best quantify it all in an even way across all vendors.

    • Adam

      Perhaps you’ve finally stumbled upon a use for Garmin’s Cycling Dynamics?

    • RD

      Thank you, I very much hope something can be sorted for this to be tested/quantified. Seems an important comparative measure for actual user experience that the current numbers don’t provide.

  6. Alex

    If the lube fixed the noise, it’s definitely from your drivetrain not from Suito 🤔

    • The cassette is considered part of the drivetrain, but if there wasn’t any oil on it – and thus none also on my chain, then it’ll be louder than it should be.

      I suspect Wahoo might apply a tiny bit of oil to their cassettes during production, as I’ve never had an issue putting my bike straight on a new Wahoo KICKR trainer.

    • andre

      I recently switched from oil to a wax based lubricant. Most of the work was in cleaning and degreasing the chain and cassette before applying the wax.

      So if given the choice I’d prefer not to have any lube on the cassette.

  7. David E.

    Somewhat of an aside, but this sentence caught my attention: “I’m not usually a huge fan of using this feature [i.e., power match] on any trainer unless you’ve got a really specific use case.”

    I can’t recall you expressing this skepticism about power match before. Can you say a bit more? I’ve used power match on my Gen1 Kickr since it came out, and it seems to work like a charm. Maybe the Gen1 Kickr is that “specific use case” (given the problems they had early on with discrepancies between power meter readings and Kickr readings)?

  8. Alex

    Ray, thanks for this preview, as usual insightful and balanced.

    Any thoughts on Wahoo adding cadence to Kickr Core to match Elite featurewise?
    I suspect this is just a matter of firmware update.

    • I suspect it’s just a firmware update as well. It’s something Wahoo has talked about for years (like, since the original KICKR), but never done. But it’s becoming more and more important for app as more and more apps are going to Apple TV.

      There’s additional ways they could solve it as well – including passing the ANT+ cadence from a cadence sensor back through via BLE (or doing the same for HR).

      I suspect that the Suito will force Wahoo’s hand in some manner here. I think they’ve basically got three options:

      A) Add in cadence support and slightly lower price to $849
      B) Add in aa cassette but maintain price (since people place a higher value on Wahoo trainers)
      C) Do none, but lower price to $799

      Just my two cents.

  9. ArT

    Cadence transfer with power is ideal for Apple TV. The key was choosing ELITE for me :).

  10. hdb

    “Though, before we talk all tech, let’s just talk. As in, how to pronounce it. Which is always the discussion for any Elite product. This time, the proper pronunciation is akin to sweet-o. Like Cheeto, but, with sweets. You can add some Italian flare in there if you want, it’s optional.”

    Now all I can think is “Dorito(s)”… Is there a Cool Ranch version slated for future release?

  11. Michal

    Does it have spindown/zero offset calibration? It surely requires one if power is estimated.

  12. Chader

    I don’t see mention of the OTS power measurement that is used on some Elite trainers.

    Do we know if they are using OTS for this new trainer, or some other power estimation method?

    • No OTS in this unit. So akin to Zumo, but ideally with lessons learned.

    • Chader

      Thanks. I figured not, as they would likely be using that as a marketing bullet point, but wanted to be sure.

      I’m looking forward to hear the results of the ERG mode testing (adjustment delay fixes) and overall full review. We appreciate the time and effort for this and other reviews. Cheers.

    • Fabio

      Does it mean that power i ‘only’ estimated right? so from this point the direto with its ots is better right= maybe that is why direto is 2% (but a lor of reviews report that is even more accurate than 2%) and this 2.5% ?

    • Fabio Mussi

      Hi Ray, this could explain the really good price for the suito and why it s ‘only’ 2.5% accurancy (less than direto).

      Big question: do u think the price gap between suito and drivo 2 could allow a real ‘direto 2’ from elite in the future?

      Speaking of official prices drivo2 costs as 2 suito (almost) considering the lack of cassette in drivo 2

  13. John

    Any word on Shimano Microspline support?

  14. Anonymouse

    Your comment about Apple TV reminded me to ask a question. I have a Core and use a Viiiia HR strap as a bridge because my speed-cadence censor is ANT+. I have been considering getting Apple TV for Zwift, but am concerned about having to use the Companion app to get HR or cadence. Would the Apple TV treat the cadence and HR as one connection or two?

    Thanks!

  15. Keith

    Aesthetically, I find the Direto more eye pleasing. The new Suito looks like a piece of industrial equipment.

    So now that Elite figured out how to improve the responsiveness of the trainer to large power swings, will a firmware update finally be issued to improve it on the Direto????

  16. Felipe Serra

    Hello. I will dig into internet, but this tech: Bluetooth Smart FTMS Trainer Control (including power/speed/cadence) is just for trainers or is intended to be used in other areas? It’s like a bus. Zwift must read this no? You are using just a BLE Channel or the apple TV has some BLEApple Something?

  17. Jonathan

    Did you test the trainer without power cord? I’m interested using this trainer at race warm-up, but usually there is no access to electricity. I understand that there is no control, but what is the “basic” resistance it offers?

    • Gaetano

      Hi Jonathan,
      Suito, once powered sets the resistance to 10%. If you remove the power before to connect it to any device, then Suito keeps this resistance level.
      This brake means about 125W@20kmh, 210W@30kmh and 300W@40kmh.
      So you can easily use that for any no-power warming session. Just power the trainer for few seconds and remove the power before you leave.

      There is also a way to change the 10% resistance level, in case you need.
      Start a Level Mode training session with our myE-training app, adjust the resistance as you like, and then remove the power. As before, Suito keeps the resistance level you set, until you power it again.

    • Gaetano

      To avoid misunderstandings, 10% is not a gradient but related to the brake capability.
      It means that the brake is set at 10% of the max.

    • Neejc

      Hello Gaeatano,
      Is that also possible with Direto? To set the resistance and then use it without power.

    • Gaetano Mercante

      Hi Neejc,
      yes, that’s possible with Direto as well.

  18. mkuczara

    So for a mid-range trainer – Elite Suito or Tacx Flux S?

  19. max

    I don’t understand why Zwift can’t handle the slow adaption of the Direto for gradients. The course in Zwift is fixed and I can’t steer. They can calculate when i will likely reach the gradient change and when they know how long it takes a trainer to change it, why not give the order to change the gradient x seconds earlier?
    It seems more to be a software problem than a hardware issue? Zwift does not sell trainers, it would be good for them if the experience on a mid budget trainer is closer to high end trainers.

    • Robert

      That would mean coming up with and then maintaining an advance timing for each trainer model – quite a heavy workload for an app supplier.

    • Fabio

      a zwift developer (long time ago) wrote in a forum they do anticipate incline changes for some trainers. i have asked if they could do something similar for the direto…but no answer yet (after about 2 years).

      Direto was one of the best selling trainers in the last few years so it could make sense to manage its ‘lag’ with this setting:

      Maybe a better way to do this should be to hide a ‘lag setting’ in zwift so that every user (with medium IT skills) could edit it

    • Max

      It could be a setting like the audio lag setting on blu-ray players and flat screen TVs.

      If someone like DcRainmaker would work for Zwift they would program an Ebike or a dedicated motor to simulate a training session with the direct drive trainers at different power and cadence levels. Then they could measure the trainer resistance and create power/resistance curves to anticipate the trainer lags in all circumstances.

      And no one would have to buy new trainers 😉

    • Fabio

      Imho it would be enough if this ‘lag’ settings could be hidden in some xml file or similar. Maybe it s a ‘dangerous’ setting for newbies but it could be useful for others.

  20. Stas

    Yesterday I ordered a new Direto trainer and today I see that Elite announced a new trainer Suito.I cancelled an order and waiting for some new information about which one is better.Any thoughts?

  21. Robert

    Ray, your “interval #6” issue does look like a BT drop-off. I use a Tacx Flux S connected to TrainerRoad (Win10) using ANT+ (as opposed to BT in your case, assume from the screeshots that it was running on iOS/iPhone), and I get a few drop-offs which gives the same result – power demand changes are ignored by the trainer for a few seconds, while power measured seems to still transmit. The output file shoud give enough information to confirm if there was indeed a drop-off.

  22. Tim

    Thanks Ray. Do you know how much the unit weighs? This is looking like a perfect additon for me to train when away from home. I’d be leaving it in storage for 2-weeks a month and then setting it up in a long-stay hotel for 2-weeks. I already have a bike I store (Salsa Vaya), but have been considering a trainer for some time.

  23. Mike Petrik

    Thanks for another great trainer review.

    I would like to buy a trainer for the winter.
    Ray, what’s your suggestion, should I buy one now or should I wait until september/october.
    For example Tacx Flux Smart is now on sale for about 520 euros (it seems to me like a good value for the money).

  24. Zhao

    Found the Suito at the same price as Directo in a shop. Guess I’d better choose the new one. What’s your recommendation, DC?

    • The Direto has a power meter in it, and proven accuracy along with it. It’s not as compact as Suito, but by and large spec-wise it’s got an edge (price wise, it just depends as you noted).

    • Alan

      Thanks for another great review. Likewais I am looking to buy a new turbo and not sure between the suito or direto. Despite the improvements in erg mode and quite in the suito, you think that the direto is the better choice?

    • It’s a really hard choice. I think people have been universally pretty happy with the Direto, so I don’t think you’ll go wrong there.

  25. Marc

    Thanks for the great initial review of the unit! My issue with older Elite direct-drive trainers was the stepper motor which adjusted the resistance in ERG-mode. How does the Suito adjust resistance?

  26. Dave

    Thanks for a great review DC. Is it stable out of the saddle? I always worry about over-balancing

    • No issues with my sprints inside and a ‘normal’ amount of rocking (assuming you deploy the feet of course).

      I suspect like most trainers, if you were somehow sprinting while reaching to pet your dog on the side of the trainer, perhaps something could go wrong. But I think in general most of us are more stable than we realize on the trainers.

  27. Mark Boothroyd

    Will you/have you done a review of the Elite Nero?

  28. Hey folks-

    Super quick update because I forgot to update it like three weeks ago… You can now pre-order the Suito from Clever Training, which helps support the site and gets you 10% off using DCR Coupon Code DCR10BTF, also, free US shipping.

    link to clevertraining.com

    I expect to drop a final review likely either late August or very early September. Just waiting on the final firmware and final-final unit to validate everything.

    Enjoy!

  29. dizpark

    Question to Ray about 4iiii power meter in these data sets. In the text you refer to it as 4iiii Precision Pro, but in the graphs it is 4iiii Podiiiium Dual. Which one it is is? I guess that it is the newer Podiiiium as you reviewed the older Precision prom back in 2017? And if it is Podiiiium, does it mean that you are working on a review?

  30. Andreas

    How does the noise/vibration compare to a Wahoo Kickr Snap?

    Looking to replace that because the level of noise/vibration in a small flat is just too much.

    • You’ll have less vibrations than the SNAP. I’d have to pull out an old Snap, but my rough guess is that it’s quieter than the SNAP. I’d be surprised otherwise.

  31. Wu

    Hi Ray
    Nice preview. I have followed your blog since my first purchase of the Ploar rxc5 TDF after I’ve read your review on the product :-). Now, I am planning to buy this Suito, and I have following questions;

    1. which offline indoor cyling app do you recommand, I’ve read about that trainerroad and sufferfest will work offline, but have no experince with both mentioned apps. Will the E-traning app from Elite work offline?

    2. I am living in Norway, and will store and use Suito in the shed, so I wonder if I can have Suito in the shed year round considering that the temperature can be down to – 20 celsius or more?

    Thaks!

    • Gaetano

      Hi Wu,
      my E-training app requires the internet connection for the first login/configuration, then you can use it even without internet connection.
      Of course, some features, like Gmaps courses or saved training synchronization won’t be available.

      Honestly we’ve never tested the trainer at such low temperature, but as all the power generated by the rider goes into heat, after few minutes, the internal temperature goes up quickly and this should be enough to make it work.

    • Wu

      Hi, Gaetano, thanks for the reply.

      I am conserned about the product’s life span, if I let it staying in the shed year round. Will the life span be significantly reduced because of the temperature??