Heads up!!! Here’s your massive holiday sports tech deals list! This includes the Garmin Epix for just $419, the Apple Watch Ultra 2 for just $699, the GoPro Hero 12 Black for $249, (or the brand new Hero 13 or $299!) and plenty more! Go check out the full list of 100+ deals here!
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In Depth Product Reviews
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Read My Sports Gadget Recommendations.
Here’s my most recent GPS watch guide here, and cycling GPS computers here. Plus there are smart trainers here, all in these guides cover almost every category of sports gadgets out there. Looking for the equipment I use day-to-day? I also just put together my complete ‘Gear I Use’ equipment list, from swim to bike to run and everything in between (plus a few extra things). And to compliment that, here’s The Girl’s (my wife’s) list. Enjoy, and thanks for stopping by!
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My Photography Gear: The Cameras/Drones/Action Cams I Use Daily
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The Swim/Bike/Run Gear I Use List
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For ebay, are these just the sports devices found on ebay so we should still be just as careful about the seller as other ebay items or are they from sellers that you looked into?
For bluetooth, its 4.1 not 4.3. Also I don’t think the change is doing what you think. Going by that link its still one to one as before only now a watch as can both receive data from a BLE sensor simultaneously with the watch being paired to a smartphone. So the change allows the watch to be master and slave at the same time but still only have 1 to 1 pairing. Their description of the added bulk data transfer to BLE seems interesting. Makes it seem like they are planning for smarter sensors that can store the data for later transmission which could be very useful for swimming (HR data can’t be transmitted underwater to a watch but after the swim is over the watch could get all the data and save it)
The docs mention a device can be both a hub and peripheral, but I couldn’t tell if the “hub” part allows it to be many:1 or just 1:1
Interestingly, two of the “end user examples” from the BT 4.1 quick reference guide are fitness related.
Under “Maintain connections with less frequent manual intervention” / “Exchange data more efficiently”:
and “Device supports multiple roles simultaneously”:
Having cycled for a year with the Wahoo Fitness app and a host of BTLE devices: speed/cadence, HR, RFLKT and more recently Stages, I have experienced permanent dropouts from one of the devices if the phone strays too far from the bike for an extended period–like grabbing lunch at a cafe. Sometimes you’d have to end the workout, exit the app and resync all again. Not sure if the key issue is the software implementation or the BT spec, but perhaps 4.1 could alleviate some of this.
I asked Niclas (on the BT sig from Polar) a couple days ago about that specifically, and he noted:
Me: “Any chance that allows for dual-connection to sensors (or other devices)?”
Him: “Yes, a sensor can have many simultaneous connections and a device can be master and slave at the same time. In other words 4.1 has full scatternet support.”
The additional storage piece (sorta like ANTfs) is separate, and very cool, but was beyond the scope of what I wanted to cover in the usual one-line aspect of the week in review post.
Interesting Ray. I read through four or five articles on 4.1 and NONE of them mentioned dual connection. I really wanted this to be the case but I couldn’t find any reference. I don’t understand why this wasn’t published more as this is huge – it really removes the ANT+ advantage. Right now I wear two HR straps when I’m on the trainer (I fell like a wannabe Rainmaker) so I can get HR data to my Polar Loop as well as my Mac (for TrainerRoad).
With BLE a master can have multiple slaves and a slave can only have one master, the change 4.1 seems to make is that it went from a singular device can’t be both slave and master for BLE (normal bluetooth already allowed that) to allowing a singular device to be both slave and master. This allows a scatternet.
But I don’t see where they changed the spec to allow a slave to have multiple masters which is what would be needed to be more like ANT+ so for example a heart rate strap could pair with a phone and watch at the same time. (That would be a big deal as it would be a completely new way for pairing to work)
For those interested: link to eetimes.com (doesn’t cover the changes in 4.1)
I’ll catch-up with Niclas and have him respond here, since he’s sorta the master there (head of the BT SIG for Fitness).
Seems like my comment went into the wrong place in this discussion
so I am reposting. The specification (Volume 6, part B, Section 1.1.1) says clearly
1.1.1 State and Role Combination Restrictions
The Link Layer may optionally support multiple state machines. If it does support
multiple state machines, then:
• The Link Layer in the Connection State may operate in the Master Role and
Slave Role at the same time.
• The Link Layer in the Connection State operating in the Slave Role may
have multiple connections.
• The Link Layer in the Connection State operating in the Master Role may
have multiple connections.
• All other combinations of states and roles may also be supported.
I think this is pretty clear.
Niclas Granqvist
So clear in the actual spec, but not clear in the PR release Bluetooth put out that Ray linked to which made no mention of it.
Eli, there are many new features not mentioned and the marketing has a tendency to reduce and simplify the message.
Thanks for the info. Sorry for making assumptions based on the press release
Can’t help but wonder if the Garmin firmware announced for the fenix regarding iPhone notifications has any thing to do with the 4.1 Bluetooth announcement?
No, it doesn’t leverage 4.1.
The specification (Volume 6, part B, Section 1.1.1) says clearly
1.1.1 State and Role Combination Restrictions
The Link Layer may optionally support multiple state machines. If it does support
multiple state machines, then:
• The Link Layer in the Connection State may operate in the Master Role and
Slave Role at the same time.
• The Link Layer in the Connection State operating in the Slave Role may
have multiple connections.
• The Link Layer in the Connection State operating in the Master Role may
have multiple connections.
• All other combinations of states and roles may also be supported.
I think this is pretty clear.
Niclas Granqvist
Oh, and for Ebay, they’re collections with items more like a gallery, not a recommendation of who to buy from.
Ray,
Is this change to Bluetooth-Smart a hardware one, or can existing devices be used with new firmware?
Sean
Some mfgs can update to 4.1 without changing HW.
Thanks Niclas for all the info, this is great news. Ray, I’m hoping you could do a post about this in light of all this info. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has many questions such as:
– Can you get any info from any companies about support for dual connection (Polar, 4iiii, Wahoo, PowerTap, etc.)
– If they won’t give you info that you can publish maybe they’ll tell you they have plans “on background” so you can say you are aware of at least x companies working on this.
– Do you know of HR straps (other than the Viiiiva) getting firmware updates in the past (in other words how likely is a hardware upgrade going to be required)?
– What about speed/cadence sensors? Any past firmware upgrades?
– Will the phone/tablet/Mac/PC OS need an update to support this?
– Is the above true in the case of two apps on a single phone/tablet talking to an HR strap (for example) and is it also true if you have one phone with one app and one tablet with a different app talking to a single HR strap?
– Will phone/tablet/Mac/PC APPS need an update to support this?
– Is the above true in the case of two apps on a single phone/tablet talking to an HR strap (for example) and is it also true if you have one phone with one app and one tablet with a different app talking to a single HR strap?
Like I said, lots of questions!
Thanks so much for any info you can offer.
Outside of the Viiiiva hr strap and most of the power meters I don’t think the other sensors have user upgradable firmware as the lack a way to connect to them in order to update the firmware. (Why invest in creating a wireless interface when the device’s circuit board can be directly connected to during manufacturing?)
By “Will phone/tablet/Mac/PC OS need an update to support this?” I assume you mean:
Can a 4.1 slave talk to a 4.0 master?
but in some way the more important question for this new functionality is:
Can a phone that is BT4.0 and supports BLE talk to a 4.1 sensor while that sensor is simultaneously connected to some other device? (i.e does the master matter when you want a slave to connect to more than one master?)
I guess what I’m asking (put another way is) will a phone (the master) need a firmware update to go to 4.1 and assuming it does, will every app need to be updated as well so that you could use two apps on a phone to communicate with one 4.1 capable HR strap (the slave).
Also will two masters (say a phone and a tablet) still on 4.0 with non-updated apps be able to communicate with a 4.1 slave (a new HR strap).
Actually, for many LE 4.0 use cases you can just remove the topology restrictions and it will work fine
with no modifications.
– A 4.1 slave can talk to a 4.0 master, of course.
– A 4.1 phone can support a mix of 4.0 sensors and 4.1 sensors with no problems
That is what was asked.
The first step when a Bluetooth 4.1 device connects to an another device is a feature exchange. The feature exchange tells the capabilities of the other party. This is build into Bluetooth from the start.
Practically Bluetooth is a hierarchical stack. Each layer is completely independent from all other layers and properly implements mechanisms that makes the stack very extensible.
Niclas
Amazon got confused on the correct cyber monday? Garmin GSC10 Ant+ speed/cadence sensor for $33:
link to amazon.com
Since I’m sure everyone thinks there ar too many smart watches:
link to indiegogo.com
Its a ring, not a watch, why are you looking at me like that? :-p
Firstbeat Sport is 20% off:
link to shop.firstbeat.com
So still way too expensive in my mind for a software app at $319.20 for a year license and $799.20 for a lifetime license. Seems like they could make more money by selling the software at a lower price so people who aren’t very serious about training would be tempted to get it. (i.e. less profit per unit sold but many more units sold) But thats just me