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Fascinating stuff Ray, I’m looking forward to part 2!
My 13 and a bit mile commute via a cycle route and a canal towpath is roughly 13 and a third miles, my Garmin Edge 500 has it varying slightly in distance on every commute.
Not an issue for me, but your blog is/will no doubt tell me why!
It would be very interesting if you had a Forerunner 305 available to include in the test. The Forerunner 305 has a mode in which you can store position every second (instead of only the “smart recording modes”), giving potential for more interesting data. Orienteers typically prefer the Forerunner 305 over the newer models due to the 1 second interval, as this gives more data for the analysis.
Hi Ray,
I’m curious as to the accuracy of your “wheel”, shouldn’t you be using a Jones counter as a proper test ?
Cheers,
chilli
What I’m curious about is the accuracy of sites like mapmyride.com? I’ve compared my runs with both an FR60 and a Forerunner 305 to plots from that site, and I get slightly different distances. Not much difference (<2%), but mapmyride.com is usually just a touch "longer" than the 305, and a touch "shorter" than the FR60 (calibrated on a 1600m track).
I’m wondering if mapmyride.com incorporates elevation changes into their distance calculations, where the 305 may not? As a note, I live in very hilly Pa.
You should get yourself a Jones counter and test compared to a course you measure with that based on a steel-tape test course.
awesome stuff.. thanks for doing that for us!
Ray,
it would be interesting to see if the result of the Garmins would be different when storing position every second instead of smart recording. Accoding to Garmin manuals Edge 310XT, 500 and 800 record points every second if they are paired with a powermeter. How about adding a bike with your Cinqo to the test?
Ray, really enjoyed reading this, there are a couple of questions I always had regarding GPS accuracy.
Does having the GPS device on your wrist effect the accuracy when you are running – as your wrist is constantly moving back and forth, unlike cycling when its fairly steady. The reason I ask is because I have heard the Edge500 isn’t very accurate when running as it doesn’t have the same software to account for this as say the Forerunner310 does?
Another point about GPS accuracy I had always wondered was whether it accounts for the extra distance you travel when you go up or down hills, or do they just measure “as the crow flies” distance?
thanks
Anthony
Pretty Fascinating Stuff!! I have a Garmin 405 and 305 and notice when my boyfriend and I go out for the same run, one might say a couple feet more! interesting
This is a great article. One more test I would really enjoy seeing is a course through an area with tall(er) buildings. I live in NYC and the mapped accuracy of my Garmin 310 is very jerky through the streets, i.e. a lot of times it has my path jumping from one side to the other of a street when I ran a straight line. These are the streets of SoHo too, so only about 4-6 story buildings. I’m sure if I were in midtown, around 40+ story buildings it would be much worse.
Cheers.
yay!! an experiment!! So fun!! This was a very interesting test! Thanks for sharing :D
I would like to add my opinion about the “jones counter”… can we not buy one of those too, there’s no space left downstairs!!
I agree with Jan, can you strap the 305 for a quick run to see where is comes in.
@Bertie…Jones Counters are like jello…..There’s always room for more!!!!
I often get a .98 on a track and when looking at the map you can see the curve is just a set of straight lines and every now and then there is a tangent that cuts too much. I have also been playing with the elevation and found that the best I can get is 75% when running up a mountain for 20 minutes that is a 10% grade and about 60% when doing rolling hills bc on the track I get about 10 ft “hills” I often wonder if this triangulation also can cause a distance irregularity if the point taken is consistently above or below “ground” Thanks for the test.
Hi,
Nice work! Really enjoy your blog. I was wondering: do you know if the Garmin uses an algorithm to correct for inaccuracies? Because IMO, the raw data should always overestimate distance because only part of the inaccuracies will even out. Only inaccuracy that is in line with the direction you’re going evens out (i.e. the estimated position is “in front” or “behind” the actual position). It evens out because at one moment the estimated position is in front, and the next moment it is behind the actual position. However, if the estimated postion is to the left or right of your actual position, this will not even out, but only add up (because it’s always a detour). So, the conclusion would be that the longer the run or ride, the greater the over-estimation? Or am I mistaken here? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
If you haven’t finished the tests yet, how about throwing on an Edge 705? It would be interesting to see how this generation of technology compares to the last. In general, I have noticed my FR310 to be quite a bit more accurate than my Edge 705 especially in windy and tree covered situations. With the 500 and 800, is there any way to force 1 sec recording? as you mention, that would be another interesting metric to compare the effects on accuracy. At least with the 705, could do that.
I think there’s another import factor: whether there are clouds or not.
I’m very interested to see how they perform in heavy tree cover such as Lake Accotink or Burke Lake. Being the owner of a 310XT, I know how mine did under tree cover, awful lol.
P.S. – As soon as I saw your map I knew where you lived. I ride into work past there a couple times a week…. on good weeks.
Great blog, keep up the good work!
RE: Foreruner 305
I had considered adding the FR305 as well, but didn’t do it primarily due to the added data tracking. I might in the future just do a stand-alone test with the FR305 vs the FR310XT for fun.
RE: Jones Counter vs. Wheel
The wheel I have is actually a certified measuring device (link above in post), and unlike a Jones Counter isn’t reliant on exact PSI to get a correct measurement (the wheel in my counter is solid-state). That’s not to say that if I was doing longer tests that a Jones would make more sense, but for anything under a mile I can walk it easily. My particular wheel measures up to 9,999ft before I’d have to reset it. I’ve measured it against a tape measure a few times and it comes out accurate each time.
RE: Sites like MapMyRide and accuracy
The challenge with comparing MapMyRide and exact GPS coordinates from a track file is that MapMyRide is simply showing you the pinpoints you enter. So if you drag your mouse a few pixels to the left/right – that may be 30-50meters, unknowingly added. In some cases, that could be short, and others long – really just depends on how conservative you are with the mouse vs the run. ;)
RE: 1s recording vs regular
Hmm, that’s something to look at – though, look for tomorrows post for a few more thoughts on that. :)
RE: Wrist movement
In all the tests I’ve done, the Edge has faired pretty well actually while running – in about half of these tests it’s actually been the most accurate, despite the arm movement.
RE: Builings and GPS accuracy
I’ll be talking about accuracy distance in Part II. Stay tuned!
RE: Raw data
All Garmin processing is done in-unit. So the raw files I get are post-processing by the unit, but prior to any particular software suite interpretting them differently (sometimes you see different software suites try and correct for errors). This way we’re working from the same page.
Thanks all, and stay tuned for Part II…just a few hours away!
Here’s an interesting article that was referenced on the USATF site about GPS accuracy and course certification.
link to hamptonrockfest.com
Really looking forward to part 2. I have a 310xt and Edge 705 and I’m often intrigued about the accuracies of both. I did a 150km mountain bike ride not long ago and took both. The final result was a difference of around 200m. The difference seemed to be that the Edge was more prone to inaccuracies in trees.
Sorry if I missed it but did you use all the devices at the same? You have to account for differences in satellite alignment and solar activity too – not to nerd out on you but those effect GPS accuracy as well when comparing different devices. Now sure how much of a difference but I know it can make a difference.
RE: Jones Counter
For me the experiment provides more information when choosing which device to use. So the use of the measuring wheel or a jones counter makes no difference as i see it.
Unless the baseline measurements are overstated, the Timex clearly has the poorest performance.
Which leads to another interesting result, why are none of the watches showing a distance greater than the baseline measurement?? They all come up short.
Great article. A lot of good data that will make the next watch purchase a challenge
1) The Forerunners (and probably the Edges too) ALWAYS samples the GPS data EVERY second. In smart mode, it just doesn’t record the data unless there is a change in the velocity vector. So, the recording (note: recording) mode, is of no import for the _unit calculated_ accuracy. It might, though, be of import for software processing the data afterwards, but that’s hardly Garmin’s problem, so to speak.
2) A strength of the GPS devices is that a 10 meter error over 1km, does not necessarily translate into a 100 meter error over 10km. The random errors might cancel out in the long run (pun certainly intended).
Great catching up on your blog today. Echo on Katz and Central Park and great summary of the latest USAT. Thanks also for the triple for the guys overseas, nice touch!
oli
Good work, well done!
I have two garmin gps devices: edge 205 (for bike) and FR 310xt. I compared them on an athletic field, running on the first track (400m) 12,5 times (5km). After several comparisons, edge 205 accuracy (in smart recording mode) is better than FR 310xt. Typically, the edge 205 error is < 1%, while FR 310 XT error is often > 2%.
What let me be astonished is the route of FR 310 XT displayed by ST or garmin connect: it is worse that edge 205’s route.
That brings me to the conclusion that FR 310 XT is worse that its predecessors 205 on athletic fields.
I’ve always been curious about this, but hadn’t investigated for myself because I knew it would involve walking a route with that tape measure thing. I’m glad you did it for me!
Oddly enough, you appear to live right around the corner from me. It was trippy to recognize the routes you used as your test cases! I frequently run along the straight one!
I have been doing track workouts with the Garmin FR 225. Today I ran 800m interval training. Two laps around the track measured between .53-.54 miles according to my watch. It’s consistently high every week. The guy I run with has a Garmin FR 220 and his watch recorded the same laps as .49 miles every time. I believe the GPS hardware is identical. Why is there a difference and are there settings I can change to make my watch more accurate on a track. PS Running in a straight line on the road is very accurate with my watch