Heads up – Massive Sports Tech Holiday Deals List is Live!!! The Garmin Fenix 8 is $250 off (even the Fenix 8 Pro is $100 off!), the Apple Watch Ultra 3 is on sale, the Garmin inReach Mini 2 is $249, the GoPro Hero 13 Black, DJI NEO, and a ton of other brands/deals, including Wahoo, Oura, Whoop, Polar, Samsung, Google, and more than 100 sports tech deals here!
I suppose I could collect these in a ‘Week in Review’ post, but some of them are worth a touch bit more discussion, thus, here we are. This is like the potpourri of Garmin news and tidbits from the last week or so, mostly more quirky and/or geeky news items than not.
Garmin Imports Competitor Scuba Logs
This caught my eye, because it’s the curiously kinda fun aggressive Garmin we rarely see. Garmin is largely a “don’t upset the apple cart” kind of company, preferring to keep a low profile when it comes to talking about competitors or drawing attention to them.
But Garmin did actually announce a new feature that lets you import scuba logs from one of the big dive computer competitors – Shearwater, into your Garmin account. This lets you pull in almost all of the historical data from your dive logbook into Garmin’s platform. Of course, Garmin has made massive gains in the diving industry in the last few years, not just with watches, but all the connected accessories too, like underwater wireless communication systems, even floating buoys, for dive masters to divers and more.
In any case, you can follow this support article to import in your logbook from Shearwater. At present, it imports in all the things below:
The following data will be imported from a Shearwater dive file:
Time and date
What device recorded the dive
Dive time
Max. depth
Avg. depth
Average, minimum, and maximum temperature
Surface interval time (prior to dive)
Bottom time
Conservatism setting
Starting and ending tank pressure
The following data will not be imported: Deco ceiling or stops
Gas consumption
Notes or Tags added in the Shearwater dive log
This reminds me of 2016 Garmin, which actually added a similar feature to import in your Fitbit data. That was back in the peak-Fitbit days, and Garmin really wanted to convert those customers into the Vivo lineup of devices. I have no idea if that feature still works today.
Though, when I step back, it does surprise me that Garmin hasn’t made a similar feature for pulling in data from something like Apple Health (to convert Apple Watch users). Frankly, out of all the integrations, that’s probably the one with the biggest ROI, since the user pool is the largest. Of course, any time you do these sorts of data conversions, you have to decide which data types get converted, and how they get converted. Take for example, Sleep Score (from Apple). Do you simply convert the number straight into Garmin? Or do you skip it? And then do you pull in respiration rate too, and on and on. Point is, it’s a bit more complicated than it might seem.
Garmin Kills off Sleep Mode for Focus Modes:
This has been in the Fenix 8 series betas for a long time now, so long that I forgot it finally made it to production in the last few days (week?) – and the internet is not happy. And in this case, I agree with the internet.
In short, you used to be able to manually force the Sleep Mode (which is more about killing notifications and reducing screen brightness) via the controls menu with a dedicated icon that looked like the moon. Now, you have to know that it’s under the ‘Focus Modes’ icon, which looks like…nothing…and then within that set the Sleep Mode. It achieves the same thing, but is an extra step.
As I said up above, the first night this happened to me a long while back now, I was instantly annoyed. Why on earth did this get overcomplicated? Every other watch has a dedicated sleep button. And while I appreciate the theory behind focus modes, they still seem to fall short. Take for example, the default ‘Theatre’ mode they added. Have you actually tried that with the Fenix 8 MicroLED? It doesn’t change the brightness level at all. So while it turns off notifications, it’s still incredibly overkill bright on your wrist in the theater (just as it is on a redeye flight, or any number of other scenarios).
I feel like a simple compromise here is to just let us still have the dedicated control option for Sleep mode that we can add. Right now, that control option has been removed entirely.
Garmin Introduces Peloton Integration:
Garmin has introduced a long-rumored connection between Peloton and Garmin. And by ‘rumored’, I mean the CEO of Peloton accidentally mentioned it during a tech conference like 6 months ago.
In any case, the integration lets you sync your Garmin workouts to the Peloton platform. This is available for anyone with access to the Peloton app/devices, so it doesn’t require Peloton hardware. Upon completing a Garmin workout, it’ll push over to Peloton and show up in the platform there.
Unfortunately, this sync is only one-way, and doesn’t sync back the other direction (from Peloton to Garmin). I’m honestly kinda surprised here. Certainly, Garmin has long wanted the integration to Peloton, for many years. But equally, I expected it to be bidirectional, since right now this still basically requires double-recording a workout on their watch+Peloton app/device. Whereas I’d hoped we’d see something akin to the Zwift/TrainerRoad/etc integrations in that it just pushes the completed workout back to Garmin. That’s the best consumer-facing experience for customers of the two companies. Hopefully that’s in the works down the road
Garmin Display Manager Talks MicroLED Display:
Garmin’s Display Technology Manager gave an interview to Tom’s Guide that covered some of the inside details on the new MicroLED display in the highest-end Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED variant that came back in September. The article outlined the process to become the first wearable with a MicroLED screen, as well as some of the challenges they faced.
It also outlines a bit around the largely negative reaction from consumers about the battery life, as well as where Garmin expects to go from there. As I’ve said repeatedly, while the screen is incredibly bright, at the current price point and with current battery burn rates being so high, it’s incredibly hard to recommend this over the regular Fenix 8 Pro AMOLED screens. At the same time, as we often see with technology, doing V1 of something is really the only way to get to V3/V4/V10 of something. And sometimes V1 has lots of catches.
Hopefully, as per the article, Garmin can iterate quickly to deal with the catches, and we’ll see the benefits of the technology in a few years on more reasonably priced devices.
Garmin Outdoor Segment Misses Earnings Targets:
This one caught my eye, mainly because it came out of nowhere. Yes, to be clear, Garmin as a company once again performed very strongly, with being up 12% year over year (YoY) to $1.8B in the quarter. For context, Garmin is basically divided up into the following segments, which report investor information in the following segments:
Fitness: Forerunner, Venu, Edge, Tacx, etc… [Q3 up 30% YoY to $601M from $463M] Outdoor: Fenix, Instinct, inReach devices, etc… [Q3 down 5% YoY to $497M from $526M] Aviation: Things that fly [Q3 up 18% YoY to $240M] Marine: Things that float [Q3 up 20% YoY to $267M] Auto OEM: Things that neither fly or float (Q3 down 2% YoY to $164M]
During the Q3 earnings/investor call, Garmin announced that the Outdoor segment revenue fell by 5%, and they’d be adjusting their full-year expectation to 3% growth (from a planned 10%), which is a huge drop.
On the call, this was immediately questioned by investors. In fact, the first question and a number that followed, kept picking at this. I’ve included some of the relevant answers below (you can read the full transcript here):
[As part of prepared investor statement]: “delivering back-to-back years of double-digit revenue growth has been more challenging than originally anticipated following the one-year anniversary of the highly successful product launches in this segment, most notably the Fenix 8.” – Cliff Pemble, CEO
////
[In response to investor question about reduction of Outdoor full year guidance]: “The Fenix 8 Pro did launch fairly late in Q3, so it didn’t have a lot of time to make an impact. And the results from the Fenix 8 release last year were incredibly strong. And so, I think that those are all factors as we look at the back half of the year that we’re thinking that maybe our expectations were a little bit too high to begin with.
If you look at the long term, over several of these major launches, like the Fenix 7 to Fenix 8 and now to Fenix 8 Pro, the overall growth of our watch category has been strong double digits and also ahead of the market. And so we feel like in the long term view that these devices and the outdoor segment in general have been remarkable performers.”- Cliff Pemble, CEO
/////
[Regarding upcoming guidance around]: “Let me kind of give a start out with the gross margin, maybe first of all, the year over year on Q3. You know, that is lower due to higher product costs. Part of that is relating to tariffs. Another thing relates to our strengthening of the Taiwan dollar, which does impact our cost of goods sold. As Cliff mentioned, you know, there’s the warranty accruals in the prior year period sales. And that’s partially offset by some favorable FX on sales due to the weakening US dollar.” – Doug Boessen, CFO
While digging around, I did find this tidbit from the Q2 (July 30th) earnings call that I thought was interesting, where Garmin noted that none of the wearables were being tariffed at that time:
“Our tariff estimate is lower now today than it was in April, primarily because of changes in some of those tariffs as well as not having a tariff on wearables. From that standpoint. And that’s really offset, you know, on the gross margin line item by unfavorable impact on our gross margin due to the strength in the Taiwan dollar, which will increase our product costs that we have.”
I’ve talked about this in the past, but in short, there’s an exemption in place that covers wearables and phones specifically, ostensibly to protect Apple revenue, but the way it’s written, others get to take advantage of the exemption.
But back to this quarter’s earnings call, there were some interesting exchanges regarding subscription revenue for Bounce & Garmin Fenix 8 Pro products, where basically Garmin said straight up that if you buy those products, they expect you’ll also buy an LTE/etc subscription too (and that their numbers support this).
Garmin also noted that they plan promotional activity in Q4, as they do every year. Typically, we see that start any day now. In the earnings call, Garmin’s CEO said, “I’d say they’re in line with what we’ve seen in previous years”. Looking at REI’s just-released sale catalogue, it appears Garmin is doing $250 off the Fenix 8 series (not Fenix 8 Pro, though). That’s in line with past years.
(Inside Garmin’s massive distribution center in Olathe, KS)
Still, it’s hard to know what to think of this. Simply put, being outside of Garmin, we don’t really have good product-specific data to know for sure if the Fenix 8 Pro is selling well or not. It’s worthwhile noting that the Garmin Fenix 8 (non-Pro) was released and available for purchase on August 27th 2024, whereas the Fenix 8 Pro was announced a week later this time, on September 3rd, 2025. But with Garmin’s new structure on how they do product releases, retailers didn’t know about it prior (nor can they book orders earlier like they used to), and couldn’t sell that for nearly yet another week later, until September 8th, 2025. In terms of missing earnings by 5% in a quarter, those two factors alone could easily account for the gap. So in one sense, yes, the dust can eventually settle.
But, if it were merely a case of the dust settling a week or so later, then Garmin wouldn’t have adjusted their full-year guidance downwards to 3% growth from 10% growth (per their Q2 earnings call on July 30th when they reaffirmed the 10% growth figure). Especially when you remember that Q4 includes the holidays, known for strong revenue. To put things in context, the Outdoor segment’s full year 2024 revenue was $1.96B, a 16% increase over 2023. Thus, going from 10% growth (to roughly $2.16B), down to 3% (roughly $2.02B), means a shortfall of roughly $150M from the Outdoor segment. Or approximately three Fenix 8 Pro MicroLED watches.
I’ve gotta imagine that the underlying price of the Fenix 8 Pro is driving some of this. As the world has collectively noted, it’s gotten pretty crazy. And I wonder if things are reaching the breaking point there, and that’s starting to show. Heck, a 7% drop in guidance could be attributed alone to female and other small-wristed buyers not having a Fenix 8 Pro option to even buy. My wife won’t buy it for purely that reason (despite otherwise really wanting it for the LTE connectivity on solo runs).
All of which sets aside the reality that most other sports tech companies have had relatively minor US price increases (such as Wahoo), with the remainder of Garmin’s other competitors having largely kept pricing in check or exactly the same (notably Apple and Google kept pricing identical, and Samsung/Suunto/COROS with very minor tweaks).
Erik Woodring from Morgan Stanley: “…we’ve seen Garmin Ltd. make some relatively significant price hikes across a number of different kind of smart wearable products over the last, let’s call it year, year plus. What have you learned about the elasticity of demand of your customer base? And how does that inform your or Garmin Ltd.’s ability to maybe take more price in the future? How should we think about the relative pricing power of the consumer wearables business, please? Thank you.
Cliff Pemble [Garmin CEO]: “Well, I probably take exception to significant price hikes in the past year. What we’ve done is we’ve introduced new product lines with new features that can command a higher price point because they do more for the customer. So we aren’t necessarily, you know, moving prices on existing categories, products, and existing SKUs. We’re doing innovation. We’re unique products, innovation is something that customers always love. And we’ve been successful in doing that. In terms of elasticity, you know, I think when we introduce a product at the higher end, our strategy is to continue to push and promote the products that it overlaps with and ultimately replaces.
So we have a one-two strategy where we can promote products that have been in the market a while and play on the value side while at the same time offering new products with innovation and at higher price points.”
There are two interesting factors here. First, there is the very clear outlining of the fact that Garmin sees its previous-gen products as the ‘budget’ option for consumers who aren’t going to spend substantially more on the latest model. Garmin has long adopted this strategy, and we of course, see it in full color during the holidays (likely to our benefit as consumers, as usual).
However, the second piece that caught my attention here is trying to imply that Garmin hasn’t increased prices. Let’s be clear, all of their product lines in 2025 saw substantial increases in prices, far more than they’ve ever historically done. Every new product gets new features, else…ummm…it wouldn’t be new. So to say that a successor product inherently has to have a price increase seems problematic, since many of Garmin’s products saw minor price increases historically. For context, pricing on the Venu series:
For reference, the Apple watches have remained virtually identical in price since introduction (only a $50 price increase since the original Apple Watch 1 in 2015 at $349, to now at $399). And the Google Pixel watch has remained with a base price at $349 since its introduction.
Likewise, looking at the Fenix series, showing the least expensive model available in the 47mm/middle size, trying to normalize/detail model changes (e.g., MIP to AMOLED) where possible.
The point is, the last year has seen the biggest jumps in price to date in the Fenix lineup. And I’m not saying the new inReach technology isn’t cool, or the other new features that came with it over the last year. Seriously, it is. But looking historically, all of those Fenix’s had cool new features and functions at the time…which didn’t seem to require a $400 price hike in the past two years.
Certainly, Garmin can point to the success of the Fitness segment when it comes to price increases and show that it’s working (financially). But those products are roughly half the price of a Fenix 8 Pro, and perhaps the price increase math doesn’t scale anymore above a certain price point. Or, maybe we’ll find ourselves on the February call, and somehow it’ll have worked out. And that ignores the fact that the Fitness Segment is far more diversified in terms of products (including all of Tacx, all the Venu/Vivo/etc bits, all Forerunner, all Edge cycling, all power meters, etc…).
Either way, I found it all interesting…and now that I’m thoroughly distracted from finishing the editing on the backlogged reviews of said products, I’ll end things.
With that – thanks for reading!
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Thanks for the analysis on the price hikes. Agree completely with your pushing back on Pemble’s framing.
Couple thoughts, the first somewhat minor:
1) not totally clear to me what Garmin distinguishing between “fitness” and “outdoors” accomplishes? Are EDGE cycling computers not “outdoors”? A lot of the fitness products get used outdoors. What is the point here? And if there is weakness in the outdoors segment, maybe they’ll be folding that in with fitness to mask that?
2) on the question of why Garmin is price hiking in the outdoor category, and Apple et al are not, I wonder how much of this is gross margin pressure due to increasing direct head-to-head competition with the Apple juggernaut.
The CFO calculation at Garmin may be something along the lines of: “better to sell fewer units and maintain gross margins, that grow revenue as much”?
Apple’s free bundled satellite service has gotta be putting growing pressure on In-Reach (and it’s also very expensive premium service level pricing).
I think a lot of backpackers/outdoorsy folks would love to own Garmin products over Apple. But Garmin needs to remember that a lot of those folks also aren’t rich.
Fitness vs Outdoor is really just the way the divisions grew up over the last 10-15 years.
Basically, Outdoor used to be things like outdoor handhelds and such. When the Fenix 1 was introduced, it was essentially an Outdoor handheld at heart, just in a wrist form-factor. You should read my Fenix 1 review up above to see how rough it was. Super frustrating if coming from a Forerunner.
In any case, that’s the history there. All major corporations that have public facing have semi-odd ways of dividing up and obscuring revenue. Like all companies, every once in a while things move between different segments in order to make it more opaque to investors, as well as to provide more stability within a group.
For example, technically, the Auto group is now just Auto OEM. Back in 2023, Garmin merged Auto into the Outdoor group, because…well…Auto SatNav devices were doing pretty badly. Whereas now, the Auto OEM group is focused purely on integrations with various companies.
Yeah, it’s funny. The Enduro 3 is actually the counter-example to a super well priced product. Perfectly priced, and is essentially a Fenix 8 base for the same price as previously.
The problem is, one can only explain it so many times to consumers. Meaning, I think it’s the best deal if you want a MIP-bsaed display option in that size. But it’s kinda hard at every single recommendation interaction to say “But actually, if you don’t care about scuba and voice or LTE, and don’t want AMOLED, then maybe the Enduro 3 is the best deal for you, since it’s all the software features of a Fenix 8, just with longer battery life. Oh, and it’s only available in one size.” Somehow, that doesn’t really convey super quickly.
Unless I missed it, no explicit callout from Garmin to their change in strategy for updates to prior new/flagship devices. For example May 2024 I purchased an Epix2 Pro Sapphire LED, nearly Garmin’s flagship watch which was latest gen at that time. Less than a year later they’d introduced the now-merged Fenix 8 MIPS/LED, killing off Epix line. Epix has yet to receive the last few quarters of feature updates, all happening in my first year of buying what was one of their most expensive products.
So I’ll continue using this hardware they’ve predetermined for force obsolesce, in the meantime looking for the next best thing from Coros or elsewhere. This is the first, and likely last Garmin product I’ll ever own from their Outdoor/Fitness lines, largely due to this and the intro to paywalled features in Garmin+ (largely dependant on *my data* for them to present back to me), when so many consumers are already in their subscription fatigue era. I understand their business strategy changing, and I hope their leadership and shareholders will be equally understanding of all the consumers current and new they’re ostracizing and the lost revenue that goes along with that.
So your Epix does everything you paid for when you bought it and more than the completion but does not get software features from newer flagship decides. Yes this is annoying and less value than it would be if Garmin continued to ship feature updates for a longer period.
But I fail to see the superior value in replacing this with another brand that is “next best” or by definition does not have the features in your Epix. I would think you would just not upgrade for some period of time until a competitor or Garmin provided you with more features or your epix battery got poor or it otherwise stopped working.
Should have added that by Garmin not adding new software capabilities to “older” hardware (that which is able to support, except for code being intentionally walled off from specific models) Garmin is doing themself another disservice: feature disparity. The longer I continue to use my feature-locked Epix2, potentially into 2028+, the less loyal I’ll be top Garmin when looking for a replacement device. Browsing Garmin’s latest devices in the future will be extremely similar to browsing their competitors’ devices: lots of cool new stuff! Versus if Garmin continued pushing new features to older compatible hardware, there’s more features I may latch on to and find harder walking away from their ecosystem.
Can I continue to use Garmin Connect? Sure, just manually upload .fit files! What about my sleep score and other historical data like that? It’ll still live on in Connect, and a couple weeks after using a competing product they’ll have it figured out moving forward so who really cares how I slept or what my body battery way some random day back in 2024?
Compare that to someone like Apple and their smart watches. What if Apple played the same game preventing a user with a watch from 2020 from adding more apps? They’d reduce the value of the current device, and only make it easier for the shopper to switch to competing products from a different brand’s ecosystem. At least Apple offers the latest iteration of same product line for the same price point, where Garmin’s latest +50% price bump for latest gen and killing off feature updates while keeping majority of the hardware consistent. I merely see the company behind the tech on my wrist is no longer pushing innovations, so I’ll happily hook my cart to a different horse.
Annoy now and then welcome me back in a few years with a product line that may see multiple +50% price increasing between now and then is a fantastic way to lose consumers across all product categories. Not smart guys….
WTF? Fit files still automatically upload to Garmin Connect from an Epix 2, same as always, even after Connect+. And Garmin just recently released a beta update for the software, 23.31 (mine is on the beta track). So the firmware is still being updated. The hysteria about Connect+ is simply amazing.
I’m talking about fit or other activity files from a future non-Garmin device, needing manual import to Garmin Connect. And while I agree my Epix received a recent update, these are minor updates for bug fixes, security patches and the like. Very different from new feature rollout. The last substantial update that was, and will ever be sent to Epix2 was May 2025, v21.19 – as confirmed today on Garmin.com.
Latest for Fenix 8 series was August 2025, v17. 28 with tons of new stuff.
Compare the changelog of the two and the differences are obvious. This has nothing to do with Connect+ which is of so little value to 99.9% of users that it sounds like Garmin’s CEO isn’t even willing to talk about it unless it starts generating revenue worth discussing with shareholders now, or likely ever.
I would agree with you, but the most interesting question is:
How many of Garmin’s buyers per year are new customers vs. how many users does Garmin lose?
Garmin must be quite satisfied with that at the moment.
I am curious to see how Garmin’s business will fare when Google Fitbit Health Coach is available everywhere.
And when Apple launches its Health+.
“How many of Garmin’s buyers per year are new customers vs. how many users does Garmin lose?”
Garmin actually talked in their earnings call about where the growth is coming from, saying it’s primarily coming from new users.
I have a suspicion that Garmin isn’t actually “losing” many customers to the likes COROS, but rather, the majority of those customers are coming from Polar and such. Sure, some people switch from Garmin to COROS, but I suspect not as many as the internet would have you believe.
Sign up to the beta program and you get some pretty regular updates. I have an EPIX and it’s been pretty good from first purchase, no complaints. A few software bugs around battery life, but they’ve been resolved. They do keep adding features as far as I aware.
If you only read Reddit, it seems like all the new Garmin users are former Apple users ;)
Polar has a tough time:
An old app that has been neglected for too long and its OS on the watches.
Unfortunately, not much has changed since the first Grit version I owned back then.
I’m not surprised that the Garmin Outdoor (Fenix) division isn’t doing so well:
– It’s become too expensive.
– That ugly colored side component.
– Fenix 8 with and without sapphire glass is a joke at these prices.
> Take for example, the default ‘Theatre’ mode they added. Have you actually tried that with the Fenix 8 MicroLED?
I’m, for one, very happy for this Theatre mode. Because now I can configure it separately from my sleep mode. Sure, by default it inherits the ridiculous default setting, but since it’s a separate focus mode, you can also configure it separately. For example, my Theatre mode configuration on FR970 retains whatever watchface is set (instead of switching to the simplified “sleep face”), retains the touchscreen settings but enables Red Shift and disables AOD.
Of course, I would very much prefer Garmin to let us have a quick access to different focus settings in the controls section instead of making us go into the Focus menu first, but it’s a good first step.
I love Theatre mode on Apple Watch and seeing Garmin introducing the same thing is a very welcome improvement.
I love when you dig into the weeds on the business side of these products. The technical/product reviews are always excellent, but these business strategy discussions are also top notch and so interesting. I do think the Fenix 8 is suffering from a combination of sticker shock and the loss of the smaller model. I’m still on the Fenix 6S and while I’d love to upgrade for the improved optical heart monitor and maybe solar and LTE connectivity, there’s no way I’m paying that price for a watch that looks and feels like a microwave sitting on my wrist. I suppose their “prior model is the bargain option” will work for a little while in these cases. But when the 7S is no longer on the shelf, they have nothing to offer folks who aren’t looking for a big face (which, btw, would include my 6’2″ husband). Here’s hoping there will be a few sales this holiday season on the prior models and I can find a 7S Solar to pick up for him before they run out.
I have to agree with your sentiment. I know the diehard Garmin boys out there will have something to say in the comments about Coros or Suunto being subpar compared to Garmin, but very few of the reviews mention the fact when comparing an Apex 4 or Vertical 2 that they are hundreds of dollars less in price. The GPS and OHR are really good on other models. If you are concerned a $100 HRM that will last for years is a super easy fix and a $35 flashlight or a $15 night light can take care of the pee time needs of Fenix owners needing flashlights on watches. How much do most of really travel and need light in unknown bathrooms. Its like buying a Enduro 3 when I only backpack once a year.
The GPS and OHR field has really leveled and if you are using these watches as they were originally intended (tracking sport) then there is no need for many people to have these extras. There is no Garmin that is anywhere as good as an Apple watch at being a smart watch and they will not be anytime soon. Garmin will never be as good as an Apple and if it were it would be 1000s of dollars according to the quotes above from Garmin execs.
Garmin knows who they are and are taking advantage of it. That is pure and simple.
I agree that Garmin prices at launch are very high but the discounting is also substantial and even the new old stock has very advanced features. The biggest competition to Garmin flagship is new old Garmin flagship stock at steep discounts.
The one generation old premium Garmin watches still compare favorably to the current competition top of the range so it is in fact a “hard compare”.
Again the Epix 51mm has objectively similar battery range and much more full-featured.
I think the Coros Apex 4 is doing the best at competing against a similar Fenix. It’s priced on Amazon at about the same as a fenix 7 or 7S but gets a bit better battery range and has the new voice memo thing. On the other hand it is missing other advanced features like ClimbPro and PacePro and tap to pay and music streaming services (cache offline)…
I use the torch on my Instinct 2X almost daily – it’s excellent for picking up dog poo when I walk the beast at night, for illuminating my garage door keyhole, and a whole load of other little things I do a lot. Is that a deal breaker? Clearly not. But if you haven’t had a watch with a torch it’s possible you underestimate just how useful it is.
Seems like Garmin is justifying cost increases by adding features most folks will never use. As a Forerunner 955 owner, would the flashlight in the 970 be nice? Sure. But what is the compelling reason to upgrade absent battery issues or breaking the watch?
A) It doesn’t even get an Amazon volume sell-through number (so, less than 50 units/month on Amazon)
B) There are a grand total of 7 comments in *5 months* on the Garmin Fenix E forums. For context, the Fenix 8 has 7 comments in the last 7 hours.
That said, I think what Garmin was trying to do with the Fenix E could/would make a ton of sense if they’d just stop filling the channel with Garmin Epix Gen2 unit at half the price. Right now, the Epix Gen2 with a titanium bezel no less, is $429. I’d guess we’ll see it as close as $299 during Black Friday: link to amzn.to
Until that goes away, there’s very little reason for people to buy the Fenix E, unless they really hate the sleep/moon icon, and want to forcibly get rid of it, via Focus Modes. Again, I like the idea of a Fenix E that has almost the same software as the Fenix 8 series, but given it’s the same hardware as the Epix Gen 2 for almost double the price…yeah.
Again, I have no problem with the concept of E. It’s not really any different in theory than what Apple does with the SE. Except, Garmin missed the key aspects that make Apple successful here.
Apple does keep one previous generation of iPhone in the market in addition to the SE but that is an enormous market. They definitely do not do that with Apple Watch:
– series 11
– specialty partner cobrand series 11 (Hermes and Nike)
– ultra 3
– SE
Garmin by contrast has a vast number of watch models with overlapping features and a bunch of SKUs and trim levels and at least 3 years previous generations of products. Plus a substantial range of ultra-niche models of Fenix-derived watches.
Garmin is running 3 or 4 product strategies simultaneously at various levels of competing with themselves.
Lower price compare to the standard product (i bought a AW SE2, good price/features) and much more, not higher than past generation.
I forbade to talk about the operating system over years ;-)
Your article is really interest regarding the pricing point at Garmin
Your updated on the Peloton integration is inaccurate. While you can now push workouts from your watch into Peloton, they do NOT count towards Peloton milestones. Peloton had taken the position that they want those milestones to be only of workouts completed in their ecosystem.
Source: own a Garmin and a Peloton, and milestone counters do not increase
You would think but No. The miles count towards challenges. It currently counts towards daily and weekly streaks (it didn’t at first). But not milestones.
Is there ever going to be an in depth review of the Fenix 8 Pro and the AWU3? We have seen the pictures of the epic runs and hints at a comparison of the comparative usefulness of the satellite connectivity – but nothing seems to be forthcoming…
I’ve been using Garmin products since upgrading from my Timex Global Trainer. I don’t always get the newest model but they certainly have gotten pricey. With my daughter getting into running I did exactly what Pemble suggested —I got her an older Garmin 55 as an entry level unit. If she is still competing next year I’ll get her something nicer.
In the end, Garmin can set these prices because they are arguably the best at hardware and software integration. It leaves room for competitors to compete on price and features.
…and a very smart developers at Garmin turned off the ANT+ protocol.
Now you can not transfer activities from Garmin’s own devices to Garmin Connect. Neither with that cursed Garmin Express…
What a wonderful development, pure idiots!
or another brand
today the competitors provide great devices, with a better balance in terms of price/features.
most of the features on our watches are not used, or only by a small number of customers (by feature)
over the past years, Flashlight was the most important hardware feature introduce by Garmin and copied by the competition. Other than that, most of the features are not mandatory, climbpro for example
Perhaps but another brand is less likely to be an upgrade than a discounted previous gen premium Garmin product like the Epix Pro and that kind of upgrade does not incur switching costs. There is a bit of a signal in Garmin financials that the fitness division (forerunner) grew while the outdoor division (fenix) sales fell. I’d assume that the most likely “other brand” switch would be to Apple Watch.
“most of the features on our watches are not used, or only by a small number of customers (by feature)”
The thing is though, this is fundamentally what’s made Garmin successful. Dominating to be more precise.
They’ve realized that every feature isn’t for everyone. But equally, everyone has their specific feature. And Garmin ensures they have eatures you know you need/want.
“Other than that, most of the features are not mandatory, climbpro for example”
In fact, this is the perfect example. I’d argue ClimbPro is mandatory. It’s by far my favorite feature on climbs, both riding and hiking/trail running. In the riding realm, everyone has it now. But in the hiking realm, only Suunto has something like it (and while it’s good, it’s not quite as good as Garmin’s). COROS doesn’t have it outside of Dura/riding, and neither does Polar or anyone else.
As for the flashlight, it took is only copied on two models. The T-Rex 3 Pro, and the Suunto Vertical 2. Obviously, we’ll probably continue to see it expand. In the case of both of those, AmazFit gets it closest to Garmin, but still not quite there. Suunto’s implementation still needs love too.
It took years for Garmin to nail it (in terms of usability), so in terms of getting there, it’ll take time.
There must be some price increase/gouging fatigue with people who follow tech. I like Garmin products and respect that they are workhorses once the bugs are fixed, but at some point don’t you think that people will start to feel like they are being taken advantage of?
Is a 4 year old Epix Gen 2 Refurb as good as a Race 2 or a Apex 4? For me you would really really want to have a Garmin to do that considering you will never get new features.
“Is a 4 year old Epix Gen 2 Refurb as good as a Race 2 or a Apex 4? For me you would really really want to have a Garmin to do that considering you will never get new features.”
See, that’s the thing. Objectively, if you pull away the ‘year date’ on these products, yes, a 4-year old Epix Gen 2 is argueably better than a Race 2 or Apex 4. At least in all the categories you said you considered important up above in an earlier comment.
The two main areas which the Apex 4 would beat the Epix Gen 2 would be battery life (remembering the Apex 4 is MIP, not AMOLED), and the voice calling bits (with a phone nearby). The Race 2 has better GPS battery life than the Epix, though a wash for daily battery life. But, I think we’ve collectively established that the vast majority of Fenix/etc owners simply don’t care about voice calling (Suunto doesn’t have that). That’s been made clear by everyone.
But once you dive into the nuance of the actual features, stuff like map deatils, navigation, all the other features, Connect IQ platform support for apps, sport modes, sensor support, integration with 3rd party platforms, and on and on and on and on….again, there’s a reason why Garmin sold $2B (with a B, like billion) worth of Fenix/Instinct products last year.
Which doesn’t mean I don’t disagree with you here: “There must be some price increase/gouging fatigue with people who follow tech.”
Definitely – I think that’s how a lot of people feel, myself included. But that’s also very different from trying to argue a Suunto Race 2 actually competes, objectively, against an Epix Gen 2, in terms of software features and depth of those features. Especially when priced identically.
Thanks for the reply. You and Brian Reiter make good points. I guess I got a bit of a chip on my shoulder with all the price increases. Before the F8 increases I never really considered Suunto or Coros.
I am totally with you when it comes to tech price hike fatigue. I was an early adopter for years. I bought many devices the day they poped up on Garmin’s website. And while I can easily afford to do so, these high prices take the fun of owning a new product away. I switched now to buying my devices on ebay or other second hand platforms. I got a 5 month old Enduro 3 for 550, 7 Pro for my wife for 400 and a Fenix 8S for my daughter for 540. I still think that Garmin is the superior brand, especially when you use them for navigation, even if Suunto and Coros are getting close. And I know that buying second hand can be risky and you have to be patient when you want a certain model, but so far I was lucky.
I have done the same at times and I think because of the quality, a second hand Garmin can be a great option even on a 2-3 year old device.
I also agree with Ray that the depth of features and the depth of those features cannot be compared when talking about other brands. I think we all have to make our own decisions on whether we use all these features or even need them in our watch. Garmin undeniably has the best optioned out devices out there. If some options are not important, I think that is when a lot of doors start to open up both in older Garmin devices and other brands.
Ray I would love to hear your opinions on how different styles of training are interpreted by Garmin. I have spent the last year on a Training for the Uphill Athlete training plan and my Garmin consistently tells me that I have a High Aerobic Shortage because in this type of endurance training there are little or no VO2 Max sessions. When I plug all these workouts into TrainingPeaks I feel better, but Garmin can for lack of a better term make people feel sad for not following their model.
I feel like these conversations would be better over a beer than type fest. We all love the tech, there is just so much nuance.
I understand your point about Garmin all features, but because i exchange with power users over the forum and during Beta to reproduce issues.
I confirm that i saw a lot of features only used by a couple of customers.
And i can add that more than half the customers didn’t RTFM, then sadly a lot of features are unknown or misused.
further remark to the price hikes: The competitive counterpart to the AppleWatch Ultra 3 (899,00 EUR), the Garmin fenix 8 pro MicroLED (1.999,99 EUR) is missing in your list. From my point of view the price increases does not reflect or cannot be justified by the “innovations” that come up with new versions.
By this price policy Garmin forces its customers to the competition and split up the Garmin universe to different brand, e.g. Wahoo and Apple, Or to low price Garmin alternatives that offer 95% of the functions that are often used…
What about the impact of Connect+? No mention of additional revenue? No questions about premium features getting hidden behind a pay wall scaring customers away or causing people to skip upgrades and defect to other brands? That launch caused huge negative publicity and online sentiment, it surely impacted sales.
And what exactly is hidden behind a paywall? Their stupid AI? The extra challenges? I tried Connect+ for the free month and then dropped it, because it adds nothing of value to me. Even Trails+, which looked mildly interesting, can easily be gotten around by an extra step. So why would Connect+ scare anyone away?
Actually, it was mentioned numerous times in the call. Reporting requirements don’t require subscription revenue to be broken out unless it reaches the 10% of revenue threshold. And Garmin’s CEO made very clear they have no plans to report it until it reaches that threshold. Which frankly, will be a very long time.
Still, I agree with Paul. I don’t think it’s having any real-world impact (negatively) on people deciding to buy a Garmin. Sure, it’s made a bunch of internet roar, but as Paul noted, when push comes to shove, all they’ve done is basically add a handful of mostly useless new features behind a paywall. And only a single one of those features (screen mirroring) is available on Apple/COROS for free. Whereas there’s literally a gazillion other features not on Apple/COROS that exist on Garmin for free.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think Connect+ is hurting Garmin’s brand, but mostly in a echo-chamber kinda of way. The internet way. It gives people fire to shoot at Garmin, even if the underlying decision is still buying a Garmin device. Not sure how else to phrase it, but…hopefully that makes sense.
Correct, that’s always been there but isn’t syncing anything. But that basically puts you in one of two camps:
1) You broadcast HR but don’t record an activity. Thus, it doesn’t count towards training metrics.
2) You record an activity (and broadcast HR), but then end up with double-activities on the Peloton side.
Point being, neither of which is really all that awesome for the user, on both platforms.
How frustrating about the one-way transfer with Peloton! Imagine being able to pull in metrics like FTP without having to install a separate power meter (i.e. pedals). I wonder what’s preventing this from happening (whether it’s a technology hurdle holding it back vs. stubborn mgmt angry in a conference room somewhere).
Purely someone on one of the two sides being stubborn.
The tech is there. The file formats are there, etc…
Peloton already spits out a .TCX file with power data that syncs to both TrainingPeaks & Strava (maybe they’ve upgraded to sending over .FIT files, I’d have to check).
Garmin inversely, can already consume that from partners today, and does for high-profile ones (Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc…). Certainly Peloton is higher-profile than all of those combined.
Thanks for update, if i may ask Is garmin 7x Pro still good choice? Just thinking os moving up from Polar Grit X, and I am not convinced about either Coros or Suunto.
It’s still a very soild unit. It’s not getting any meaningful new feature updates, though, does get Connect IQ updates and little tidbits here and there (and security updates).
Ultimately, at the end of the day, the Fenix 7 Pro series is still more feature-rich than virtually any of it’s current competitors.
The thing that actually has stopped receiving updates is the fenix 6 and forerunner 945. But these are also 6 years old now.
The fenix 7 and Epix series are still receiving updates which are almost entirely bug fixes and not new features.
I know people who still are rocking a fenix 3 or fenix 5. A lot of those would have died from wear and tear by now but if they are still working Garmin Connect still syncs with them. It’s not as if the day Garmin stops sending software updates to your watch they kick it out of the ecosystem.
I would rather Garmin supported feature updates for a longer period and also that the software is completely free of defects. But Garmin has a bit of a different strategy. Early in a product cycle they ship hardware with an incomplete feature set which they fill out over 2 years and then support with bug fixes for another 2 years or so.
If you bug the pro or plus model it is halfway through that feature super cycle.
I think that is very accurate. With tech hardware improvements slowing down the Pro or Plus models are not super smart buys if feature updates are very important to you and you want to be on the cutting edge.
One thing I have been thinking about when I see people like Ray use Garmin fairly religiously for years. I wonder if they would still use Garmin if they were only runners or hikers? If you only need a watch for one sport is Garmin still the best decision when it is the most expensive decision.
I ride, run, trail run, hike, backpack and do some lifting. If I did not need a cycling computer that works well in the same ecosystem my decisions might be very different.
Do people think Garmins are more compelling to triathlon athletes and people who both cycle and run/hike vs people who don’t need a watch to do well in water or don’t want to use Connect for an Edge device and a Fenix/Forerunner?
I guess my point is we all have these discussions online, but we are not really clear on how the other people in the discussion use their devices. If I was at a triathlon or an ultra event it would be more clear having these conversations. I would have a much better idea how they use theres. On here if a guy says he will by a Suunto next time, maybe he only runs 3-4 times a week. In that case a Fenix would be a bit of overkill.
not only did Garmin get rid of the quick sleep focus control, but in the recent firmwares the removed the ability to enable “Battery Saver Mode” (eg, having BT and wifi off) as part of the sleep mode/focus. this one is a bigger thing to many of us, IMHO.
Every company has organizational lines. Somewhere those lines have to be drawn. One can question all sorts of organizational line decisions from every company, where one app is outside another division, etc…
The key thing is that earlier this year, those software platforms are now truly the same exact thing. Just with different UI skins atop them. That was a slow-shifting move that took years to get to, but finally arrived.
“Of course, any time you do these sorts of data conversions, you have to decide which data types get converted, and how they get converted. Take for example, Sleep Score (from Apple). ”
Re: Fenix price hike, I wonder how much of it is to make room for an Instinct price hike? With the introduction of color screen Instinct I imagine that there are very competing ideas about the line’s identity. A cheaper option vs effectively equal, but *different*. The color screens clearly pull the line up in the price range towards focusing more on different than on cheaper (e.g. the often stated attitude “with that screen or can’t not have maps”), but that will only make the people in the company who want the portfolio clearly distributed across the price range push harder.
“What we’ve done is we’ve introduced new product lines with new features that can command a higher price point because they do more for the customer.”
This BS, smaller competitors like Coros,Suunto switched to better SoCs/screens than Garmin all while introducing new functions but commanding minimal price increases whereas Garmin in their fenix 8 line is still using the same old ass 2021 SoCs and older gen amoled screens ,all while keeping high margin per unit and demanding higher prices increases that the wereable market .
I still like my Fenix 8 but while it’s a good fitness watch in no way it’s hardware nor inflation should warrant these prices/prices increases.
My feeling is there is a history of the plus and pro model being more of a test bed of incremental new features and less of a value prop than the major version increment year. The 5 plus added music. The 6 pro I don’t even remember what they added. 7 pro almost nothing but Epix pro new sizes. 8 pro adds LTE and satellite capability with caveats and brighter displays and kills off MIP solar also at the expense of a significant loss of range and no 42mm version.
The Fenix 6 Pro added significantly more storage (32 GB versus 64MB), mapping and navigation, on-board music, Wi-Fi, golf maps, and different glass and case options (sapphire glass and titanium case), as well as several other software options to the regular 6.
The Fenix 7 Pro added a new generation heart rate sensor, multiband GNSS, solar charging as standard, and flashlights for all models instead of only the 7X model.
For both generations, those were very significant upgrades in my opinion, and far more extensive as an in-between update than any full generation Apple Watch change did.
I would really like to love the Fenix 8 Pro, but the new features (or lack of) making hard to justify the price.
LTE is nice, but it is unusable where there is no coverage, and essentially it is only doing lass than my phone can already do. Would be nice to drop the phone when out exercising, but not for this price.
Satellite would fill this gap – only if it would work in Australia.
Not scuba diving enough to worry about replacing my existing dive computer to the Fenix.
Help me – what else should I consider when thinking about replacing a Fenix 7X to an 8 Pro?
I guess the question is whether or not we’ll see Garmin add LTE support to AUS/NZ. Or rather, when. Obviously, at some point they will.
Currently they support LTE for the Bounce watch in AUS, which means that groundwork is laid. Next, then is satellite coverage. If we look at Skylo (their provider), they do actually have coverage there (and everything nearby). Those two factors alone would signal to me it’s more a case of ‘when’, than if’.
Any chance Garmin will allow exports from Tusa or other dive companies? Most all dive computers will sync with the third-party Subsurface app. Would be nice if Garmin would allow this. I’ll poke around and try it.
Those 8 Pro’s definitely will not sell good enough. Except being expensive, they don’t have anything special and new, other than LTE/satellite conn. And guess what, Garmin provides these services in limited countries. They don’t have LTE-M agreements with mobile providers in all countries. Also their satellite coverage for watches is limited. So in many countries Pro models are not even sold. So a lot of people can’t even subscribe these services…
A part of it will be rolling out satellite and LTE connectivity to more countries.
In Garmin’s world, there’s essentially three pieces that have to be dealt with:
A) SOS pieces: Do they have coverage in that country to handle emergencies. Due to inReach and the Garmin Response center being there forever, this is already covered for virtually everywhere on the planet. This is actually the hardest people for Apple, so Garmin kinda lucks out here.
B) Satellite coverage: In the case of the watches, they’re leveraging Skylo. So, we can look at Skylo’s current and upcoming map to see what might be next. That’s basically AUS/NZ/Brazil: link to skylo.tech – That said, Skylo is an umbrella provider, so adding capacity can literally be just the case of a new partnership
C) LTE-M connectivity agreements: Again, this has an element to it, but it’s not as messy as the above. We can look to Bounce countries as a good indicator.
But I agree, this does overall limit sale potential, when the core new features of the Fenix 8 Pro are connectivity-based (save the newer display which most don’t really care/notice).
I also agree w/ the internet on loss of quick sleep mode. Whenever I try and get a quick nap in or any other time I want to cut notifications I used the shortcut. I now use the DND shortcut but that doesn’t dim the screen and I just don’t like it. First world problems, lol.
The Fenix 8 being very similar electrics wise to the 7 so didn’t have extra cpu/memory to do much more work. Moving to a new CPU that runs at ~50% more MHz and more memory means more ability to run features that need more cpu/memory.
The outdoor division includes dog stuff which hasn’t hadmany changes in the past few years. Their best hand unit for training is te pro 550 plus which came out in 2018
So at this time it would seem like if deciding between the Fenix 8 Pro AMOLD or MICRO LED, it would be a very strong lean toward the AMOLD (at least for the next several months – year?
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Thanks for the analysis on the price hikes. Agree completely with your pushing back on Pemble’s framing.
Couple thoughts, the first somewhat minor:
1) not totally clear to me what Garmin distinguishing between “fitness” and “outdoors” accomplishes? Are EDGE cycling computers not “outdoors”? A lot of the fitness products get used outdoors. What is the point here? And if there is weakness in the outdoors segment, maybe they’ll be folding that in with fitness to mask that?
2) on the question of why Garmin is price hiking in the outdoor category, and Apple et al are not, I wonder how much of this is gross margin pressure due to increasing direct head-to-head competition with the Apple juggernaut.
The CFO calculation at Garmin may be something along the lines of: “better to sell fewer units and maintain gross margins, that grow revenue as much”?
Apple’s free bundled satellite service has gotta be putting growing pressure on In-Reach (and it’s also very expensive premium service level pricing).
I think a lot of backpackers/outdoorsy folks would love to own Garmin products over Apple. But Garmin needs to remember that a lot of those folks also aren’t rich.
Fitness vs Outdoor is really just the way the divisions grew up over the last 10-15 years.
Basically, Outdoor used to be things like outdoor handhelds and such. When the Fenix 1 was introduced, it was essentially an Outdoor handheld at heart, just in a wrist form-factor. You should read my Fenix 1 review up above to see how rough it was. Super frustrating if coming from a Forerunner.
In any case, that’s the history there. All major corporations that have public facing have semi-odd ways of dividing up and obscuring revenue. Like all companies, every once in a while things move between different segments in order to make it more opaque to investors, as well as to provide more stability within a group.
For example, technically, the Auto group is now just Auto OEM. Back in 2023, Garmin merged Auto into the Outdoor group, because…well…Auto SatNav devices were doing pretty badly. Whereas now, the Auto OEM group is focused purely on integrations with various companies.
It has always felt like the different Garmin lines of business don’t talk a lot. Missed opportunities for more for a more cohesive platform.
I think you mean ‘small-wristed buyers’ instead of “and other small-waisted buyers” :D
Haha…good catch.
I switched from the Fenix 5 to an Enduro 3, instead of the Fenix 8, mostly because of the price.
It was still quite a price bump.
Additionally: “attributed alone to female and other small-waisted buyers” I assume that was meant to be small-wristed.
Yeah, it’s funny. The Enduro 3 is actually the counter-example to a super well priced product. Perfectly priced, and is essentially a Fenix 8 base for the same price as previously.
The problem is, one can only explain it so many times to consumers. Meaning, I think it’s the best deal if you want a MIP-bsaed display option in that size. But it’s kinda hard at every single recommendation interaction to say “But actually, if you don’t care about scuba and voice or LTE, and don’t want AMOLED, then maybe the Enduro 3 is the best deal for you, since it’s all the software features of a Fenix 8, just with longer battery life. Oh, and it’s only available in one size.” Somehow, that doesn’t really convey super quickly.
The Forerunner 970 is pretty much the Amoled equivalent of the same strategy as the Enduro 3.
Unless I missed it, no explicit callout from Garmin to their change in strategy for updates to prior new/flagship devices. For example May 2024 I purchased an Epix2 Pro Sapphire LED, nearly Garmin’s flagship watch which was latest gen at that time. Less than a year later they’d introduced the now-merged Fenix 8 MIPS/LED, killing off Epix line. Epix has yet to receive the last few quarters of feature updates, all happening in my first year of buying what was one of their most expensive products.
So I’ll continue using this hardware they’ve predetermined for force obsolesce, in the meantime looking for the next best thing from Coros or elsewhere. This is the first, and likely last Garmin product I’ll ever own from their Outdoor/Fitness lines, largely due to this and the intro to paywalled features in Garmin+ (largely dependant on *my data* for them to present back to me), when so many consumers are already in their subscription fatigue era. I understand their business strategy changing, and I hope their leadership and shareholders will be equally understanding of all the consumers current and new they’re ostracizing and the lost revenue that goes along with that.
So your Epix does everything you paid for when you bought it and more than the completion but does not get software features from newer flagship decides. Yes this is annoying and less value than it would be if Garmin continued to ship feature updates for a longer period.
But I fail to see the superior value in replacing this with another brand that is “next best” or by definition does not have the features in your Epix. I would think you would just not upgrade for some period of time until a competitor or Garmin provided you with more features or your epix battery got poor or it otherwise stopped working.
Should have added that by Garmin not adding new software capabilities to “older” hardware (that which is able to support, except for code being intentionally walled off from specific models) Garmin is doing themself another disservice: feature disparity. The longer I continue to use my feature-locked Epix2, potentially into 2028+, the less loyal I’ll be top Garmin when looking for a replacement device. Browsing Garmin’s latest devices in the future will be extremely similar to browsing their competitors’ devices: lots of cool new stuff! Versus if Garmin continued pushing new features to older compatible hardware, there’s more features I may latch on to and find harder walking away from their ecosystem.
Can I continue to use Garmin Connect? Sure, just manually upload .fit files! What about my sleep score and other historical data like that? It’ll still live on in Connect, and a couple weeks after using a competing product they’ll have it figured out moving forward so who really cares how I slept or what my body battery way some random day back in 2024?
Compare that to someone like Apple and their smart watches. What if Apple played the same game preventing a user with a watch from 2020 from adding more apps? They’d reduce the value of the current device, and only make it easier for the shopper to switch to competing products from a different brand’s ecosystem. At least Apple offers the latest iteration of same product line for the same price point, where Garmin’s latest +50% price bump for latest gen and killing off feature updates while keeping majority of the hardware consistent. I merely see the company behind the tech on my wrist is no longer pushing innovations, so I’ll happily hook my cart to a different horse.
Annoy now and then welcome me back in a few years with a product line that may see multiple +50% price increasing between now and then is a fantastic way to lose consumers across all product categories. Not smart guys….
WTF? Fit files still automatically upload to Garmin Connect from an Epix 2, same as always, even after Connect+. And Garmin just recently released a beta update for the software, 23.31 (mine is on the beta track). So the firmware is still being updated. The hysteria about Connect+ is simply amazing.
I’m talking about fit or other activity files from a future non-Garmin device, needing manual import to Garmin Connect. And while I agree my Epix received a recent update, these are minor updates for bug fixes, security patches and the like. Very different from new feature rollout. The last substantial update that was, and will ever be sent to Epix2 was May 2025, v21.19 – as confirmed today on Garmin.com.
Latest for Fenix 8 series was August 2025, v17. 28 with tons of new stuff.
Compare the changelog of the two and the differences are obvious. This has nothing to do with Connect+ which is of so little value to 99.9% of users that it sounds like Garmin’s CEO isn’t even willing to talk about it unless it starts generating revenue worth discussing with shareholders now, or likely ever.
I would agree with you, but the most interesting question is:
How many of Garmin’s buyers per year are new customers vs. how many users does Garmin lose?
Garmin must be quite satisfied with that at the moment.
I am curious to see how Garmin’s business will fare when Google Fitbit Health Coach is available everywhere.
And when Apple launches its Health+.
“How many of Garmin’s buyers per year are new customers vs. how many users does Garmin lose?”
Garmin actually talked in their earnings call about where the growth is coming from, saying it’s primarily coming from new users.
I have a suspicion that Garmin isn’t actually “losing” many customers to the likes COROS, but rather, the majority of those customers are coming from Polar and such. Sure, some people switch from Garmin to COROS, but I suspect not as many as the internet would have you believe.
Sign up to the beta program and you get some pretty regular updates. I have an EPIX and it’s been pretty good from first purchase, no complaints. A few software bugs around battery life, but they’ve been resolved. They do keep adding features as far as I aware.
Interesting.
If you only read Reddit, it seems like all the new Garmin users are former Apple users ;)
Polar has a tough time:
An old app that has been neglected for too long and its OS on the watches.
Unfortunately, not much has changed since the first Grit version I owned back then.
I’m not surprised that the Garmin Outdoor (Fenix) division isn’t doing so well:
– It’s become too expensive.
– That ugly colored side component.
– Fenix 8 with and without sapphire glass is a joke at these prices.
> Take for example, the default ‘Theatre’ mode they added. Have you actually tried that with the Fenix 8 MicroLED?
I’m, for one, very happy for this Theatre mode. Because now I can configure it separately from my sleep mode. Sure, by default it inherits the ridiculous default setting, but since it’s a separate focus mode, you can also configure it separately. For example, my Theatre mode configuration on FR970 retains whatever watchface is set (instead of switching to the simplified “sleep face”), retains the touchscreen settings but enables Red Shift and disables AOD.
Of course, I would very much prefer Garmin to let us have a quick access to different focus settings in the controls section instead of making us go into the Focus menu first, but it’s a good first step.
I love Theatre mode on Apple Watch and seeing Garmin introducing the same thing is a very welcome improvement.
I love when you dig into the weeds on the business side of these products. The technical/product reviews are always excellent, but these business strategy discussions are also top notch and so interesting. I do think the Fenix 8 is suffering from a combination of sticker shock and the loss of the smaller model. I’m still on the Fenix 6S and while I’d love to upgrade for the improved optical heart monitor and maybe solar and LTE connectivity, there’s no way I’m paying that price for a watch that looks and feels like a microwave sitting on my wrist. I suppose their “prior model is the bargain option” will work for a little while in these cases. But when the 7S is no longer on the shelf, they have nothing to offer folks who aren’t looking for a big face (which, btw, would include my 6’2″ husband). Here’s hoping there will be a few sales this holiday season on the prior models and I can find a 7S Solar to pick up for him before they run out.
I am back to Suunto for good, thanks to these massive price increases.
Garmin denying them makes me happier with my move.
Are they copying Shimano arrogance?
Bye, Garmin, you are not missed.
I have to agree with your sentiment. I know the diehard Garmin boys out there will have something to say in the comments about Coros or Suunto being subpar compared to Garmin, but very few of the reviews mention the fact when comparing an Apex 4 or Vertical 2 that they are hundreds of dollars less in price. The GPS and OHR are really good on other models. If you are concerned a $100 HRM that will last for years is a super easy fix and a $35 flashlight or a $15 night light can take care of the pee time needs of Fenix owners needing flashlights on watches. How much do most of really travel and need light in unknown bathrooms. Its like buying a Enduro 3 when I only backpack once a year.
The GPS and OHR field has really leveled and if you are using these watches as they were originally intended (tracking sport) then there is no need for many people to have these extras. There is no Garmin that is anywhere as good as an Apple watch at being a smart watch and they will not be anytime soon. Garmin will never be as good as an Apple and if it were it would be 1000s of dollars according to the quotes above from Garmin execs.
Garmin knows who they are and are taking advantage of it. That is pure and simple.
I agree that Garmin prices at launch are very high but the discounting is also substantial and even the new old stock has very advanced features. The biggest competition to Garmin flagship is new old Garmin flagship stock at steep discounts.
The one generation old premium Garmin watches still compare favorably to the current competition top of the range so it is in fact a “hard compare”.
For example right now today on Amazon USA:
– Garmin enduro 3: $900
– Coros Vertix 2s: $700
– Garmin enduro 2: $500
The Enduro 2 is objectively more featured and equivalent battery range.
– Garmin Fenix 8: $1100
– Suunto Vertical 2: $600
– Garmin Epix Pro 51mm: $500
Again the Epix 51mm has objectively similar battery range and much more full-featured.
I think the Coros Apex 4 is doing the best at competing against a similar Fenix. It’s priced on Amazon at about the same as a fenix 7 or 7S but gets a bit better battery range and has the new voice memo thing. On the other hand it is missing other advanced features like ClimbPro and PacePro and tap to pay and music streaming services (cache offline)…
– Fenix 7S $470
– Fenix 7 $450
– apex 4 42mm $430
– apex 4 46mm $480
I use the torch on my Instinct 2X almost daily – it’s excellent for picking up dog poo when I walk the beast at night, for illuminating my garage door keyhole, and a whole load of other little things I do a lot. Is that a deal breaker? Clearly not. But if you haven’t had a watch with a torch it’s possible you underestimate just how useful it is.
Seems like Garmin is justifying cost increases by adding features most folks will never use. As a Forerunner 955 owner, would the flashlight in the 970 be nice? Sure. But what is the compelling reason to upgrade absent battery issues or breaking the watch?
Oh, but we have a less expensive option: Fenix E…..
So few people have bought the Fenix E that:
A) It doesn’t even get an Amazon volume sell-through number (so, less than 50 units/month on Amazon)
B) There are a grand total of 7 comments in *5 months* on the Garmin Fenix E forums. For context, the Fenix 8 has 7 comments in the last 7 hours.
That said, I think what Garmin was trying to do with the Fenix E could/would make a ton of sense if they’d just stop filling the channel with Garmin Epix Gen2 unit at half the price. Right now, the Epix Gen2 with a titanium bezel no less, is $429. I’d guess we’ll see it as close as $299 during Black Friday: link to amzn.to
Until that goes away, there’s very little reason for people to buy the Fenix E, unless they really hate the sleep/moon icon, and want to forcibly get rid of it, via Focus Modes. Again, I like the idea of a Fenix E that has almost the same software as the Fenix 8 series, but given it’s the same hardware as the Epix Gen 2 for almost double the price…yeah.
You can’t tell that Fenix E Garmin total count is 7 … you can add 9 post from Garmin that double this number :-)
The E products are really a nonsense, rebrand aold models at a higher price than the “past generation” ….
Haha…no, admin posts from Garmin don’t count!
Again, I have no problem with the concept of E. It’s not really any different in theory than what Apple does with the SE. Except, Garmin missed the key aspects that make Apple successful here.
Apple does keep one previous generation of iPhone in the market in addition to the SE but that is an enormous market. They definitely do not do that with Apple Watch:
– series 11
– specialty partner cobrand series 11 (Hermes and Nike)
– ultra 3
– SE
Garmin by contrast has a vast number of watch models with overlapping features and a bunch of SKUs and trim levels and at least 3 years previous generations of products. Plus a substantial range of ultra-niche models of Fenix-derived watches.
Garmin is running 3 or 4 product strategies simultaneously at various levels of competing with themselves.
Lower price compare to the standard product (i bought a AW SE2, good price/features) and much more, not higher than past generation.
I forbade to talk about the operating system over years ;-)
Your article is really interest regarding the pricing point at Garmin
Your updated on the Peloton integration is inaccurate. While you can now push workouts from your watch into Peloton, they do NOT count towards Peloton milestones. Peloton had taken the position that they want those milestones to be only of workouts completed in their ecosystem.
Source: own a Garmin and a Peloton, and milestone counters do not increase
Interesting, I was under the impression it was supposed to count towards towards milestones. Good to know!
You would think but No. The miles count towards challenges. It currently counts towards daily and weekly streaks (it didn’t at first). But not milestones.
Is there ever going to be an in depth review of the Fenix 8 Pro and the AWU3? We have seen the pictures of the epic runs and hints at a comparison of the comparative usefulness of the satellite connectivity – but nothing seems to be forthcoming…
The text/written review of the Ultra 3 is done, just finishing up my editing of the video review. I suspect they’ll go-live tomorrow.
The Fenix 8 Pro review will follow immediately, though maybe a Wahoo CORE 2 review tossed in between, because that’s quick and easy.
Many thanks Ray.
I’ve been using Garmin products since upgrading from my Timex Global Trainer. I don’t always get the newest model but they certainly have gotten pricey. With my daughter getting into running I did exactly what Pemble suggested —I got her an older Garmin 55 as an entry level unit. If she is still competing next year I’ll get her something nicer.
In the end, Garmin can set these prices because they are arguably the best at hardware and software integration. It leaves room for competitors to compete on price and features.
…and a very smart developers at Garmin turned off the ANT+ protocol.
Now you can not transfer activities from Garmin’s own devices to Garmin Connect. Neither with that cursed Garmin Express…
What a wonderful development, pure idiots!
I suspect that some people who would have purchased a Fenix in the past and wanted a new generation device opted instead for the Forerunner 970.
or another brand
today the competitors provide great devices, with a better balance in terms of price/features.
most of the features on our watches are not used, or only by a small number of customers (by feature)
over the past years, Flashlight was the most important hardware feature introduce by Garmin and copied by the competition. Other than that, most of the features are not mandatory, climbpro for example
Perhaps but another brand is less likely to be an upgrade than a discounted previous gen premium Garmin product like the Epix Pro and that kind of upgrade does not incur switching costs. There is a bit of a signal in Garmin financials that the fitness division (forerunner) grew while the outdoor division (fenix) sales fell. I’d assume that the most likely “other brand” switch would be to Apple Watch.
“most of the features on our watches are not used, or only by a small number of customers (by feature)”
The thing is though, this is fundamentally what’s made Garmin successful. Dominating to be more precise.
They’ve realized that every feature isn’t for everyone. But equally, everyone has their specific feature. And Garmin ensures they have eatures you know you need/want.
“Other than that, most of the features are not mandatory, climbpro for example”
In fact, this is the perfect example. I’d argue ClimbPro is mandatory. It’s by far my favorite feature on climbs, both riding and hiking/trail running. In the riding realm, everyone has it now. But in the hiking realm, only Suunto has something like it (and while it’s good, it’s not quite as good as Garmin’s). COROS doesn’t have it outside of Dura/riding, and neither does Polar or anyone else.
As for the flashlight, it took is only copied on two models. The T-Rex 3 Pro, and the Suunto Vertical 2. Obviously, we’ll probably continue to see it expand. In the case of both of those, AmazFit gets it closest to Garmin, but still not quite there. Suunto’s implementation still needs love too.
It took years for Garmin to nail it (in terms of usability), so in terms of getting there, it’ll take time.
There must be some price increase/gouging fatigue with people who follow tech. I like Garmin products and respect that they are workhorses once the bugs are fixed, but at some point don’t you think that people will start to feel like they are being taken advantage of?
Is a 4 year old Epix Gen 2 Refurb as good as a Race 2 or a Apex 4? For me you would really really want to have a Garmin to do that considering you will never get new features.
“Is a 4 year old Epix Gen 2 Refurb as good as a Race 2 or a Apex 4? For me you would really really want to have a Garmin to do that considering you will never get new features.”
See, that’s the thing. Objectively, if you pull away the ‘year date’ on these products, yes, a 4-year old Epix Gen 2 is argueably better than a Race 2 or Apex 4. At least in all the categories you said you considered important up above in an earlier comment.
The two main areas which the Apex 4 would beat the Epix Gen 2 would be battery life (remembering the Apex 4 is MIP, not AMOLED), and the voice calling bits (with a phone nearby). The Race 2 has better GPS battery life than the Epix, though a wash for daily battery life. But, I think we’ve collectively established that the vast majority of Fenix/etc owners simply don’t care about voice calling (Suunto doesn’t have that). That’s been made clear by everyone.
But once you dive into the nuance of the actual features, stuff like map deatils, navigation, all the other features, Connect IQ platform support for apps, sport modes, sensor support, integration with 3rd party platforms, and on and on and on and on….again, there’s a reason why Garmin sold $2B (with a B, like billion) worth of Fenix/Instinct products last year.
Which doesn’t mean I don’t disagree with you here: “There must be some price increase/gouging fatigue with people who follow tech.”
Definitely – I think that’s how a lot of people feel, myself included. But that’s also very different from trying to argue a Suunto Race 2 actually competes, objectively, against an Epix Gen 2, in terms of software features and depth of those features. Especially when priced identically.
Thanks for the reply. You and Brian Reiter make good points. I guess I got a bit of a chip on my shoulder with all the price increases. Before the F8 increases I never really considered Suunto or Coros.
I am totally with you when it comes to tech price hike fatigue. I was an early adopter for years. I bought many devices the day they poped up on Garmin’s website. And while I can easily afford to do so, these high prices take the fun of owning a new product away. I switched now to buying my devices on ebay or other second hand platforms. I got a 5 month old Enduro 3 for 550, 7 Pro for my wife for 400 and a Fenix 8S for my daughter for 540. I still think that Garmin is the superior brand, especially when you use them for navigation, even if Suunto and Coros are getting close. And I know that buying second hand can be risky and you have to be patient when you want a certain model, but so far I was lucky.
I have done the same at times and I think because of the quality, a second hand Garmin can be a great option even on a 2-3 year old device.
I also agree with Ray that the depth of features and the depth of those features cannot be compared when talking about other brands. I think we all have to make our own decisions on whether we use all these features or even need them in our watch. Garmin undeniably has the best optioned out devices out there. If some options are not important, I think that is when a lot of doors start to open up both in older Garmin devices and other brands.
Ray I would love to hear your opinions on how different styles of training are interpreted by Garmin. I have spent the last year on a Training for the Uphill Athlete training plan and my Garmin consistently tells me that I have a High Aerobic Shortage because in this type of endurance training there are little or no VO2 Max sessions. When I plug all these workouts into TrainingPeaks I feel better, but Garmin can for lack of a better term make people feel sad for not following their model.
I feel like these conversations would be better over a beer than type fest. We all love the tech, there is just so much nuance.
I understand your point about Garmin all features, but because i exchange with power users over the forum and during Beta to reproduce issues.
I confirm that i saw a lot of features only used by a couple of customers.
And i can add that more than half the customers didn’t RTFM, then sadly a lot of features are unknown or misused.
I am wating for Marq3. Fenix still look cheap and plastic.
further remark to the price hikes: The competitive counterpart to the AppleWatch Ultra 3 (899,00 EUR), the Garmin fenix 8 pro MicroLED (1.999,99 EUR) is missing in your list. From my point of view the price increases does not reflect or cannot be justified by the “innovations” that come up with new versions.
By this price policy Garmin forces its customers to the competition and split up the Garmin universe to different brand, e.g. Wahoo and Apple, Or to low price Garmin alternatives that offer 95% of the functions that are often used…
What about the impact of Connect+? No mention of additional revenue? No questions about premium features getting hidden behind a pay wall scaring customers away or causing people to skip upgrades and defect to other brands? That launch caused huge negative publicity and online sentiment, it surely impacted sales.
And what exactly is hidden behind a paywall? Their stupid AI? The extra challenges? I tried Connect+ for the free month and then dropped it, because it adds nothing of value to me. Even Trails+, which looked mildly interesting, can easily be gotten around by an extra step. So why would Connect+ scare anyone away?
“No mention of additional revenue?”
Actually, it was mentioned numerous times in the call. Reporting requirements don’t require subscription revenue to be broken out unless it reaches the 10% of revenue threshold. And Garmin’s CEO made very clear they have no plans to report it until it reaches that threshold. Which frankly, will be a very long time.
Still, I agree with Paul. I don’t think it’s having any real-world impact (negatively) on people deciding to buy a Garmin. Sure, it’s made a bunch of internet roar, but as Paul noted, when push comes to shove, all they’ve done is basically add a handful of mostly useless new features behind a paywall. And only a single one of those features (screen mirroring) is available on Apple/COROS for free. Whereas there’s literally a gazillion other features not on Apple/COROS that exist on Garmin for free.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think Connect+ is hurting Garmin’s brand, but mostly in a echo-chamber kinda of way. The internet way. It gives people fire to shoot at Garmin, even if the underlying decision is still buying a Garmin device. Not sure how else to phrase it, but…hopefully that makes sense.
I have been using my vivoactive 5 which syncs information from peloton when I connect to (broadcast) heart rate via Bluetooth.
Correct, that’s always been there but isn’t syncing anything. But that basically puts you in one of two camps:
1) You broadcast HR but don’t record an activity. Thus, it doesn’t count towards training metrics.
2) You record an activity (and broadcast HR), but then end up with double-activities on the Peloton side.
Point being, neither of which is really all that awesome for the user, on both platforms.
How frustrating about the one-way transfer with Peloton! Imagine being able to pull in metrics like FTP without having to install a separate power meter (i.e. pedals). I wonder what’s preventing this from happening (whether it’s a technology hurdle holding it back vs. stubborn mgmt angry in a conference room somewhere).
Purely someone on one of the two sides being stubborn.
The tech is there. The file formats are there, etc…
Peloton already spits out a .TCX file with power data that syncs to both TrainingPeaks & Strava (maybe they’ve upgraded to sending over .FIT files, I’d have to check).
Garmin inversely, can already consume that from partners today, and does for high-profile ones (Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc…). Certainly Peloton is higher-profile than all of those combined.
If it’s helpful, I’ve been using this for a few years (to sync Peloton to Garmin) and it has worked well: https://syncmyworkout.com
(I’m not affiliated with them or anything)
Thanks for update, if i may ask Is garmin 7x Pro still good choice? Just thinking os moving up from Polar Grit X, and I am not convinced about either Coros or Suunto.
It’s still a very soild unit. It’s not getting any meaningful new feature updates, though, does get Connect IQ updates and little tidbits here and there (and security updates).
Ultimately, at the end of the day, the Fenix 7 Pro series is still more feature-rich than virtually any of it’s current competitors.
The thing that actually has stopped receiving updates is the fenix 6 and forerunner 945. But these are also 6 years old now.
The fenix 7 and Epix series are still receiving updates which are almost entirely bug fixes and not new features.
I know people who still are rocking a fenix 3 or fenix 5. A lot of those would have died from wear and tear by now but if they are still working Garmin Connect still syncs with them. It’s not as if the day Garmin stops sending software updates to your watch they kick it out of the ecosystem.
I would rather Garmin supported feature updates for a longer period and also that the software is completely free of defects. But Garmin has a bit of a different strategy. Early in a product cycle they ship hardware with an incomplete feature set which they fill out over 2 years and then support with bug fixes for another 2 years or so.
If you bug the pro or plus model it is halfway through that feature super cycle.
I think that is very accurate. With tech hardware improvements slowing down the Pro or Plus models are not super smart buys if feature updates are very important to you and you want to be on the cutting edge.
One thing I have been thinking about when I see people like Ray use Garmin fairly religiously for years. I wonder if they would still use Garmin if they were only runners or hikers? If you only need a watch for one sport is Garmin still the best decision when it is the most expensive decision.
I ride, run, trail run, hike, backpack and do some lifting. If I did not need a cycling computer that works well in the same ecosystem my decisions might be very different.
Do people think Garmins are more compelling to triathlon athletes and people who both cycle and run/hike vs people who don’t need a watch to do well in water or don’t want to use Connect for an Edge device and a Fenix/Forerunner?
I guess my point is we all have these discussions online, but we are not really clear on how the other people in the discussion use their devices. If I was at a triathlon or an ultra event it would be more clear having these conversations. I would have a much better idea how they use theres. On here if a guy says he will by a Suunto next time, maybe he only runs 3-4 times a week. In that case a Fenix would be a bit of overkill.
not only did Garmin get rid of the quick sleep focus control, but in the recent firmwares the removed the ability to enable “Battery Saver Mode” (eg, having BT and wifi off) as part of the sleep mode/focus. this one is a bigger thing to many of us, IMHO.
How does it make sense for Fenix and Forerunner watches to be under different divisions within Garmin lol
Every company has organizational lines. Somewhere those lines have to be drawn. One can question all sorts of organizational line decisions from every company, where one app is outside another division, etc…
The key thing is that earlier this year, those software platforms are now truly the same exact thing. Just with different UI skins atop them. That was a slow-shifting move that took years to get to, but finally arrived.
“Of course, any time you do these sorts of data conversions, you have to decide which data types get converted, and how they get converted. Take for example, Sleep Score (from Apple). ”
There is no public API for reading Sleep Score…
…figures, the one data metric I use as an random example. 😂
Re: Fenix price hike, I wonder how much of it is to make room for an Instinct price hike? With the introduction of color screen Instinct I imagine that there are very competing ideas about the line’s identity. A cheaper option vs effectively equal, but *different*. The color screens clearly pull the line up in the price range towards focusing more on different than on cheaper (e.g. the often stated attitude “with that screen or can’t not have maps”), but that will only make the people in the company who want the portfolio clearly distributed across the price range push harder.
“What we’ve done is we’ve introduced new product lines with new features that can command a higher price point because they do more for the customer.”
This BS, smaller competitors like Coros,Suunto switched to better SoCs/screens than Garmin all while introducing new functions but commanding minimal price increases whereas Garmin in their fenix 8 line is still using the same old ass 2021 SoCs and older gen amoled screens ,all while keeping high margin per unit and demanding higher prices increases that the wereable market .
I still like my Fenix 8 but while it’s a good fitness watch in no way it’s hardware nor inflation should warrant these prices/prices increases.
I went from an Forerunner 25 -> Vivoactive 3 -> 935 -> Fenix 6S Pro which I paid £549 for during Covid.
Gamin putting the 7 Pro into hibernation mode and the lack of a small option for the 8 Pro (plus the large jump in price) meant it was a no-go for me.
I wanted LTE and ended up going with an Apple Watch Ultra 2 which is perfect for what I need.
Can’t see myself going back to Garmin now.
My feeling is there is a history of the plus and pro model being more of a test bed of incremental new features and less of a value prop than the major version increment year. The 5 plus added music. The 6 pro I don’t even remember what they added. 7 pro almost nothing but Epix pro new sizes. 8 pro adds LTE and satellite capability with caveats and brighter displays and kills off MIP solar also at the expense of a significant loss of range and no 42mm version.
The Fenix 6 Pro added significantly more storage (32 GB versus 64MB), mapping and navigation, on-board music, Wi-Fi, golf maps, and different glass and case options (sapphire glass and titanium case), as well as several other software options to the regular 6.
The Fenix 7 Pro added a new generation heart rate sensor, multiband GNSS, solar charging as standard, and flashlights for all models instead of only the 7X model.
For both generations, those were very significant upgrades in my opinion, and far more extensive as an in-between update than any full generation Apple Watch change did.
Was very excited by the Shearwater XML export and import – alas not working for me :(
Uneducated guess, but try renaming the filename to something shorter/without special characters. I could see the []# causing a parsing issue
That was a good thought – alas no dice :(
I would really like to love the Fenix 8 Pro, but the new features (or lack of) making hard to justify the price.
LTE is nice, but it is unusable where there is no coverage, and essentially it is only doing lass than my phone can already do. Would be nice to drop the phone when out exercising, but not for this price.
Satellite would fill this gap – only if it would work in Australia.
Not scuba diving enough to worry about replacing my existing dive computer to the Fenix.
Help me – what else should I consider when thinking about replacing a Fenix 7X to an 8 Pro?
I guess the question is whether or not we’ll see Garmin add LTE support to AUS/NZ. Or rather, when. Obviously, at some point they will.
Currently they support LTE for the Bounce watch in AUS, which means that groundwork is laid. Next, then is satellite coverage. If we look at Skylo (their provider), they do actually have coverage there (and everything nearby). Those two factors alone would signal to me it’s more a case of ‘when’, than if’.
Thanks
Hopefully Edge 1040 discounts coming to Europe … if so, I’ll buy one.
Any chance Garmin will allow exports from Tusa or other dive companies? Most all dive computers will sync with the third-party Subsurface app. Would be nice if Garmin would allow this. I’ll poke around and try it.
Those 8 Pro’s definitely will not sell good enough. Except being expensive, they don’t have anything special and new, other than LTE/satellite conn. And guess what, Garmin provides these services in limited countries. They don’t have LTE-M agreements with mobile providers in all countries. Also their satellite coverage for watches is limited. So in many countries Pro models are not even sold. So a lot of people can’t even subscribe these services…
A part of it will be rolling out satellite and LTE connectivity to more countries.
In Garmin’s world, there’s essentially three pieces that have to be dealt with:
A) SOS pieces: Do they have coverage in that country to handle emergencies. Due to inReach and the Garmin Response center being there forever, this is already covered for virtually everywhere on the planet. This is actually the hardest people for Apple, so Garmin kinda lucks out here.
B) Satellite coverage: In the case of the watches, they’re leveraging Skylo. So, we can look at Skylo’s current and upcoming map to see what might be next. That’s basically AUS/NZ/Brazil: link to skylo.tech – That said, Skylo is an umbrella provider, so adding capacity can literally be just the case of a new partnership
C) LTE-M connectivity agreements: Again, this has an element to it, but it’s not as messy as the above. We can look to Bounce countries as a good indicator.
But I agree, this does overall limit sale potential, when the core new features of the Fenix 8 Pro are connectivity-based (save the newer display which most don’t really care/notice).
I also agree w/ the internet on loss of quick sleep mode. Whenever I try and get a quick nap in or any other time I want to cut notifications I used the shortcut. I now use the DND shortcut but that doesn’t dim the screen and I just don’t like it. First world problems, lol.
I wonder when Garmin will move from the NXP RT500 cpu in their watches to the NXP RT700. Should give a nice speed boost
The Fenix 8 being very similar electrics wise to the 7 so didn’t have extra cpu/memory to do much more work. Moving to a new CPU that runs at ~50% more MHz and more memory means more ability to run features that need more cpu/memory.
The outdoor division includes dog stuff which hasn’t hadmany changes in the past few years. Their best hand unit for training is te pro 550 plus which came out in 2018
Have you published a tri workout guide to Amsterdam? I couldn’t find one in your blog. Heading to AMS for 10 days. Thanks!
549/399, so 37,6% increase was within 24 months.
1199/799, so 50% increase was within 28 months, so intrapolated it to 24 months it was 42,9%.
So it was not an exceptional “two year” move by Garmin.
It is just the range Garmin has achieved already a long while ago, which became unacceptable for toy lovers.
So at this time it would seem like if deciding between the Fenix 8 Pro AMOLD or MICRO LED, it would be a very strong lean toward the AMOLD (at least for the next several months – year?
Definitely AMOLED in the current generation.