Garmin has just announced their latest flagship Forerunner watch, the Forerunner 970. This watch takes many of the new smartwatch elements found on the Fenix 8 and Venu 3, and merges them with new sports features not previously found on any Garmin watch to date.
This includes elements like the addition of speaker and microphone for calls if your smartwatch is in range, adding in the much-desired LED flashlight, and new running metrics focused on running economy and projected race time and pace. Plus a host of new sports profiles/modes, the newer Garmin Elevate V5 optical heart rate sensor (with ECG), Evening Report, and plenty more.
In addition, Garmin has announced a new Garmin Forerunner 570 watch, which is the successor to the Forerunner 265. Yes, you read that right, Garmin’s Natalie Miller confirmed that the “Forerunner 570 is [the] successor to 265”. Further, Garmin also introduced a new chest strap, the HRM 600, which brings in additional running metrics, along with secured connections like the HRM 200 earlier this year. The HRM 600 is the successor to the HRM Pro series.
Note that this post isn’t a full in-depth review, but rather more of a first-look hands-on explaining all the new features. Expect an in-depth review of this and the other watches down the road. As usual, that’ll include how well these features work in real-life with hours upon hours of testing across numerous sports. With that, let’s get into it!
What’s New:
In this section, we’re gonna look at how it compares to the existing Forerunner 965. That watch is also AMOLED, as noted before, MIP is dead on the Forerunner series, so don’t be expecting any sort of MIP-based high-end Forerunner at this point. That’ll be reserved for the Instinct and Fenix variants.
So, digging into the key differences compared to the Forerunner 965:
– Titanium Case is a 47mm case with a 1.4” AMOLED touchscreen display (same as before)
– Increased display cover to Sapphire Crystal (from Corning Gorilla Glass 3 DX)
– Added Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor (previous was Gen4)
– Added ECG (medically certified) & Skin Temperature Features
– Added speaker & microphone for calls (when connected to phone)
– Added LED flashlight (with both white & red LEDs)
– Watch slightly thinner than FR965 by 0.3mm
– Added Evening Report feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Voice Commands feature
– Added Skin temperature feature
– Added Past Ovulation estimates feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Running Tolerance feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Impact Load Factor (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Running Economy feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Step Speed loss feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added ‘Autolap by timing gates’ feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Suggested Finish line feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added project race time predictor feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added Garmin triathlon coach feature (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added previous Forerunner migration feature (will migrate old watch settings)
– Added Large Font size option
– Added Focus Modes (as seen on Fenix 8)
– Added new Multisport Structured Workouts (new to Garmin entirely)
– Added 15 new sport profiles (see list below)
– Added Multiple Battery Power Mode Customizations (previously just a single mode)
– Switched to 1-second recording as the default (finally!!!!)
– Improved mapping clarity (the map style design)
– Improved Garmin Coach adaptive training (show more details on watch)
– Tweaked user interface to somewhat match updated Fenix 8 UI (with a Forerunner 965 slant on it)
– Lots of changes to battery specs (mostly increases, some decreases, see below)
– Increases price to $749USD (from $599USD)
– Slightly higher at 56g (compared to 53g before)
When it comes to the battery specs, it’s a bit of a mixed bag. These are mostly increases, save the smartwatch mode and GPS-only modes. Here’s the table:
Smartwatch mode: Up to 15 days (965 was 23 days) GPS-Only GNSS mode: Up to 26 hours (965 was 31 hours) SatIQ (AutoSelect) GNSS mode: Up to 23 hours (965 was 22 hours) All-Systems GNSS mode + Multi-Band: Up to 21 hours (965 was 19 hours) GPS-Only GNSS mode with music: Up to 14 hours (965 was 10.5 hours) SatIQ (AutoSelect) GNSS mode with music: Up to 13 hours (965 was 9.5 hours) All-Systems GNSS mode + Multi-Band with music: Up to 12 hours (965 was 8.5 hours)
Got all that? Good. Let’s take a closer look at some of the newer features.
A Closer Look:
If you’ve got a Forerunner 965, here are the new features you’ll notice, and a Quick Look at how they work. First up, is the restoration of your Forerunner 965 watch settings. It’ll offer to do this in the app, and then on the watch, it finishes up transferring all those over.
From there, you’ll notice the updated user interface. This essentially takes chunks of the sport mode UI from the Fenix 8 series, and applies a bit of a FR965 slant/flavor to it.
Meanwhile, before we get into those sport modes, if you flip the watch over, you’ve got the new Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor. The main feature this adds is ECG support for approved countries (US, EU, and a boatload more), as a medical device.
Flipping the watch towards the forward, you’ll see the new LED flashlight. This became super popular on the Garmin Fenix and Instinct lineups, and has finally branched out beyond the Garmin Outdoor team watches, to the Forerunner 970. It’s by far my favorite hardware feature on recent watches.
Next, getting into some of the new sports features, there’s the Running Tolerance feature, which is looking at your previous weekly mileage trends, and giving you some boundaries on what to run (to avoid injuries). This is kinda taking that old adage about adding no more than X amount of your previous weekly mileage. For example, it says my last 7 day’s mileage is a mere 39KM, and thus, I can do 45KM.
In my case, the last 4-5 weeks have been much more cycle-heavy, though the winds shift very very quickly around these parts. Considering doing a marathon next week. TBD.
The next new feature is the Impact Load after each run. You’ll see how this would compare to a flat run, with the general conversion of hilly runs (like mine) emphasizing the impact of downhill sections. So this 5.3KM run was equivalent to a 7.2KM run on a flat course.
Here’s how the elevation impacted each portion:
Diving a bit more into the running features is the new Running Economy feature. This widget is only available with the also-new HRM 600 (which will set you back an astonishing $169!!!). This will look at your efficiency during running, including the step-speed loss, which evaluates how much your speed slows down when your foot impacts the ground. If you don’t have that strap’s data coming in, this is what it’ll show:
Whereas, once you do have data from the HRM 600, you’ll get more data shown after you’ve completed a number of runs, preferably flatter ones. And with that HRM 600, you’ll see the new Step Speed Loss data as well:
Speaking of Step Speed Loss, that’s one of the new metrics to Garmin entirely. You’ll see those in the watch during the workout (and see it shifting as you go up/down hills), as well as afterwards.
Next, there are the new smartwatch features, starting with the speaker and microphone, like we saw on the Fenix 8 and Venu 3. This brings with it the ability to take calls, as long as your cell phone is within Bluetooth range. There’s no cellular in the Forerunner 970.
This also lets you access your phone’s voice assistance (e.g., Siri on Apple Watches, Google Assistant on Android, and Bixby on Samsung phones). Either way, to access this, you’ll configure a hot key (in my case, upper right) for a long hold, and then it’ll audibly return your queries.
Next, there’s the new Evening Report feature. This is nearly identical to the concept of the Morning Report, except at night before you go to bed. You can customize it (both the contents and the time it triggers, which is 1 hour and 30 minutes before bedtime by default).
Here’s a little gallery of this evening:
Lastly, there’s the ECG function, which you’ll need to activate with the Garmin Connect app first (by doing a quick onboarding process that confirms you understand it does not detect heart attacks), then you’re good to go. As with before, you can save these and then share them with a doctor via PDF.
Wrap-Up:
Obviously, lots to unpack here with the new Forerunner 970. With the price increase, it’s certainly creeping closer and closer to the Fenix 8 pricing (which starts at $999), so essentially you’re looking at a $200 difference to add in more features, including diving support, extended microphone features, and a bunch of other navigation-related items. Plus, of course, more screen sizes and bigger batteries. I’ll be doing a full comparison between these soon.
In the meantime, it seems like Garmin listened when folks (including me) were disappointed with the Fenix 8 launch lacking much in the way of sports features (and by ‘much’, I mean any new features except diving). This time around, there’s a pile of new running features, expanded battery life for GPS modes, more sport modes, flashlight, and plenty of other more practical things people have been asking for.
About the only thing people didn’t ask for is that price increase. Welcome to 2025, I guess?
With that, plenty more to come in the coming weeks, thanks for reading!
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Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
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And finally, here’s a handy list of accessories that work well with this unit (and some that I showed in the review). Given the unit pairs with ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart sensors, you can use just about anything though.
This wifi-connected scale will track your weight and related metrics both on the scale display and in Garmin Connect (plus 3rd party apps like TrainingPeaks). It'll also then sync your weight to your watch/bike computer, to ensure accurate calorie data.
This is a dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart cycling cadence sensor that you strap to your crank arm, but also does dual Bluetooth Smart, so you can pair it both to Zwift and another Bluetooth Smart app at once if you want.
Seriously, this will change your life. $9 for a two-pack of these puck Garmin chargers that stay put and stay connected. One for the office, one for your bedside, another for your bag, and one for your dog's house. Just in case.
These are one of my favorite power meters, due to both cost and accuracy. These have mostly become my defacto gravel pedals, and also get used on a lot of other comparison testing.
The Garmin Rally series is effectively 3 power meters in one, for three pedal types. I use these often in accuracy testing. While they're a bit more expensive than the Favero pedals, they offer the ability to swap pedal types easily.
The HRM-PRO Plus is Garmin's top-end chest strap. It transmits dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart, but also transmits Running Dynamics & Running Pace/Distance metrics, stores HR data during a swim, and can be used without a watch for other sports. Also, it can transmit XC Skiing Dynamics as well.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
and yet – when solar first came out (I had a Fenix 6 Pro Solar that I really liked) almost every hardcore Garmin user lampooned it. Thought it was useless. Mocked the solar function. They did the same thing on the flashlight, notably, when it came on the F7, until people started to USE it, and they realized maybe Garmin does have a clue after all.
And LTE – the device that did come out with LTE, the 745LTE, didn’t sell at all. No one bought it, for the most part.
So – not sure too many folks are going to be let down without LTE or solar, really….
I’d buy this in a heartbeat if it had LTE. This is the only advantage I see an iWatch has over Garmin. I don’t want to have to take my phone out with me.
yes I’m sure there are a certain quantity of users (such as yourself) who might want LTE now. I’m just saying Garmin HAD that function before and literally no one bought it at the time. Perhaps the market has shifted, and people are potentially seeing the value of having always-there connectivity. But man when the 745LTE came out, it landed with a thud. No buyers. 🤷♂️
Also had the 6 solar, which didn’t have a meaningful impact on the battery, now have a 7 and the solar does make a visible impact.
When the 945 LTE was out, I was using an inreach for my adventure activities and wasn’t as keen on livetrack features. Now that I’m older with a family, my priorities have shifted, and would love for tracking and communication without my phone or a separate device.
Yes, technically Garmin had LTE functionally on previous models, but non of the useful LTE features that people want. If Garmin make watch which can receive texts, stream music, make calls etc. and is not tied to Garmins subscribe service people will buy it for sure.
Yes, technically Garmin had LTE functionally on previous models, but non of the useful LTE features that people want. If Garmin make watch which can receive texts, stream music, make calls etc. and is not tied to Garmins subscribe service people will buy it for sure.
As someone who suffered a stroke a couple of years ago by doesn’t want to carry a phone on runs LTE could (literally) be a lifesaver. I really hope that Garmin brings out a new LTE watch soon.
You had a stroke? Carry your freakin’ phone. What in the world… Major medical issue but won’t carry a phone. My FIL had a stroke and that’s how he got help. For your family’s sake, if nobody else. Wow.
As @Charles said, the (apparent) commercial failure of Garmin’s previous LTE watch(es) was probably more due to the implementation (need to subscribe via Garmin (as opposed to with a telco like most smartwatches), limited wireless functionality (focused on safety/tracking rather than messaging, calls, etc), not available in many countires),…) rather than a lack of demand/consumer interest,
So upgrading from my Venu 3 will get me a flashlight, maps and some new metrics (if I buy a very expensive new hrm strap ) ?
Hope the voice stuff is improved, it’s close to useless in my Venue 3. Mic and speaker is very low quality imho.
Can’t wait for the full review.
Curious how well the 970 will do at this price. Value for money seems pretty poor.
Make a decision, Garmin. Either roll Connect+ in for free with all the premium watches, or cut down to a realistic price (*cough* Coros *cough*) and let people choose whether they want the subscription.
4-5 years ago the post launch support for garmin watches was great. My FR945 and Fenix6 at the time learned a lot of new tricks in the year after their respective release.
I just can’t comprehend how Garmin keeps raising prices as better and better products come on the market for half or even more of the price. You can say what you want about Amazfit or Coros but after using them you can’t justify the price of a Garmin unless your a top 1% athlete that needs certain aspects. The Fenix 8 has the same internals as the Fenix 7 except with Amoled screen yet they charge more and stop updating the 7. $750 for this is robbery
Nothing too surprising about this watch, it’s pretty much the expected incremental updates; a 965 + some of the hardware features from the Fenix 8 passed down to it.
The price is a little absurd though.
I like the new running metrics, I’m particularly interested in the step speed loss, as I think unlike almost all the other Running Dynamics metrics, this one is actually actionable, particularly for newer runners who haven’t gotten good coaching on their form and might be losing way too much energy to bad foot placement.
I’d consider myself in the target market for a stat like that. Though for a new runner, the extra $160 on the HRM 600 would probably be a bit of a jump if you
I’m a cyclist and hikert who is looking to switch from an Apple Watch to a Garmin watch as I already have the Edge. I run a bit, but would like to get more into it. This seems like the right watch considering how I want the mappings, already in the Garmin ecosystem, battery life, sapphire glass, yet can’t justify the pricing on the Fenix.
As you said though, the price seems a bit absurd for such an incremental update.
Anyone understand why it is named forerunner 970 and not 975? Does that indicate there will also be a 975 coming? For me it is just confusing to step away from a nomenclature structure that has been around for a long time.
It used to be that the XT meant triathlon and ending in 5 meant optical HR. But now they all have triathlon and optical HR. On the other hand they are running out of numbers before rolling over to 4 digits so I think it’s just an economy of numbers situation. They can increment by 5 for several generations without having to come up with an entirely new naming scheme. (I would bet on Forerunner 9000 eventually.)
Running out of numbers is a good enough explanation for me. Did not think of that, thanks. And I realize also now that it has not always been a 5 in the end. The FR310XT I had did not even start with a 9, and was still a top of the line MJ product. :-D
prolly just product managers being silly. if i were to guess the old pms are gone, let go or retired or quit. and the new ones came in and they gotta change everything: product name, screen, price, add subscription, etc. to feel useful. and then ppl will stop buying. always the same story.
In the old days, integrated pod/contact area was the way to go, with a replaceable dumb strap for the elastic part. I’m still on an HRM1G (and on some off-brand clone) because none of the separate pod ones gave me acceptable reliability. Garmin, Polar H10, exotic silver thread third party straps, all have been disappointing eventually.
Much more meaningful updates over the 965 as compared to epix pro/Fenix 7 pro users upgrading to the Fenix 8. But the eye watering prices are driving may garmin customers away.
I’m interested by the new running metrics. I hope some of them are ported to the Fenix 8 line. Any guesses as to if that will happen ?
I would also like to know if the HRM600’s strap is made from different materials as the HRM PRO (non-plus)? The HRM PRO gave me a horrible rash, and after ~2 weeks, I couldn’t wear it anymore. Paused for a few months, tried again, same problem. (And yes, I washed and scrubbed the thing after each use).
Never had problems with Polar H9 or H10.
I had something very similar with luna sandals that caused me to have hives on my feet and no amount of washing or leeching would fix it. I think I had a contact allergy to an adhesive in them or something.
The advantage of this modular format is that it may be compatible with other manufacturer straps.
I used to use the old garmin HRM3 pod on a replacement Polar strap.
This may be a big price increment from the forerunner 965 but it’s a significant discount for a fenix 8. Having not seen it in person it seems very similar conceptually to how the enduro 3 is a variant of the MIP fenix 8 that is a little streamlined and specific to purpose. This is an AMOLED 47mm fenix 8 with a bit of a streamlined case.
I think that the materials upgrades may appeal to some that have been in the fenix camp just to get a bezel and sapphire. I have a friend who cracked a forerunner on a pool deck and switched to fenix and then expix pro for sapphire and bezel. This seems to fit the bill except she is into the 43mm case.
I also wonder if they put the chartreuse and purple accents on there strategically to push people to the fenix just to get the neutral color option. Like the apple black tax.
Wanted to switch from Apple Watch to Garmin, especially since I already have an Edge bike computer. The Fenix 8 seemed a bit too expensive and overkill, yet I really wanted the more durable materials since I enjoy the outdoors and find my Apple Watches quite scratched up after a few years.
The bezel still is recessed and the first point of contact if it drops is still the glass. I always hated the the rounded glas on the f965 and unfortunately they kept it (although the glass is more robust). So I will keep the F8 and hope that the features are coming over in the next update.
At that price point with little new features (even though I’d love to have the flashlight) I’ll skip that model and either wait another two years for the next one or make the switch to Apple Watch Ultra. Going to take a very close look once Apple releases v3.
Ray, can we expect that Impact Score and other features will come to the next quarterly update for the fenix 8 series?
The Impact Score is really interesting because they are trying to capture musculoskeletal load and not just aerobic TSS-type load. Having an empirical neuromuscular load number is a really missing feature from most of the fitness tracking world.
Any word from Garmin on that? I got a F8 and would be really baffled if the top model doesn’t get the new features (especially since Apple is passing almost everything down to their watches for many generations).. But I am a little worried that they need some stuff for the F8 Pro..
The 570 seems like a disappointing update. As far as I can see, it only has Evening Report as a software update compared to the 270. Then just a mic, a brighter screen and temperature.
i wish you would have taken a look at the “new” evening report and go over how it differs from the current evening report on my tactix 7 since you said it’s new to garmin entirely. no mention whatsoever after that little tidbit…
I know we all count on Garmin watches as sports and health watches first, but they are quickly becoming mutli-tools for life, so I’m curious about a couple of other features.
First, do the speaker and microphone integrate more usefully to your phones voice assistant? (which opens up many functional opportunities)
And second, my usual comment about the placement of the super useful flashlight.
I thoroughly believe the flashlight should be on the front face of the watch, pointing toward the back of the hand.
This allows shining light on things you are pointing toward and/or holding/bracing with your hand, i.e. similar to how most people hold a flashlight, with index finger forward and palm facing laterally.
Whereas the current watch placement is more like back-handing the flashlight, like police do.
The latter does not allow you to hold something else with the hand you’re using for watch illumination.
The neon stripe is a little sad to see. I’ve got a few leather bands I throw onto my 965 for more formal events since the all black blends in well enough, but neons a little tougher! Not looking to upgrade anytime soon anyways, but that makes it just that much harder to justify!
Honestly, in most light it looks just like a light silver stripe. In some light it looks similar to the MARQ Athlete yellow stripe. In no light conditions I’ve seen, does it appear neon.
Unfortunately it does become more noticeable with more ‘subdued’ straps. I have the F8 in raw titanium with the orange guard and it is very obvious with a titanium or leather band. I almost ordered the German version (with the silver/grey sensor guard) because of that.
That said, there is not a single Garmin watch that I consider even remotely dressy enough for office wear anyway. I always hide them under the shirt sleeve for that reason.
These prices are the result of the corporate greed. But if we keep on buying more and more expensive stuff, they have no reason to stop increasing prices. We need stop buying these expensive shit, no matter how good it is and switch to the brands that are driven by the values instead of greed.
I do see your point, but could it be, that Garmin covers real peoples adequate wages for R&D of products that are of superior quality and equipped with better features than the rest of the companies? It’s like many other things. The expensive part of a product or service is often not the physical production itself, but the people who develop the stuff. Therefore I am ok with paying more for a better product and, in my case, leaving out every other iteration (e.g. I won’t go to the Fenix 8 from the Fenix 7pro but to the Fenix 9). Enjoy your day!
Worse battery life for GPS-only isn’t great, especially at this price point. For example, a FR955 could be used even by ultra runners – not anymore, Fenix only.
Also my guess is they still did not upgrade the CPU and map operations (zoom, rotation) is painfully slow like on F8.
“I do see your point, but could it be, that Garmin covers real peoples adequate wages for R&D of products that are of superior quality and equipped with better features than the rest of the companies? It’s like many other things. The expensive part of a product or service is often not the physical production itself, but the people who develop the stuff. Therefore I am ok with paying more for a better product and, in my case, leaving out every other iteration (e.g. I won’t go to the Fenix 8 from the Fenix 7pro but to the Fenix 9). Enjoy your day!”
Not sure if naive or trolling. First of all, are we supposed to be impressed that Garmin supposedly pays “adequate wages”? Is this meant to imply that Garmin’s competitors pay starvation wages? Is there any proof for either of those things?
Second, do you think that when you pay high prices for a product or service, there’s necessarily a correlation with the quality of the offering? Or could it be that Garmin charges its customers the maximum it thinks the market will bear, and pays its employees the minimum it thinks they will accept?
But just to humour this theory, I checked out Garmin’s salary information on indeed.com.
– 47% think they are paid fairly, based on 319 ratings
– the average software engineer salary is $92k
I guess that’s ok if you don’t live in a high cost of living area.
Then again, here’s a sample of some employee reviews:
“Awesome Workplace Culture, Garbage Pay
It’s pretty much all there in the title. Some of the best management and human resources I’ve had are here at Garmin. The workplace culture is fun and energetic and understanding.
Literally unlivable pay. They do not keep up with the market.”
Easy job, no expectations from their employees, management is a joke. If you want to advance or get a raise better than 2% you better be best friends with your supervisor. Hard work means nothing here, if you aren’t playing the game of sucking up you’re better off not working here. Great benefits, probably the best package around but with that they pay less than most places around.”
Last time I checked, “horrible” and “garbage” aren’t synonymous with “adequate”.
Furthermore, nobody other than Garmin users thinks they are using a “superior product”. I say this as a runner who’s used Garmin for ~10 years.
There’s a reason that Apple Watch-wearing normies are mystified that anyone would wear a Garmin, and that WSJ published an article called “the cult of Garmin”.
There’s certain reasons I like Garmin better than Apple Watch (for example), but I recognize that puts me in the minority of the general population. And if I only wanted a smartwatch (not a runner’s watch), Apple Watch (or even Samsung Galaxy Watch) would objectively be a better choice.
Ironically, people who like Garmin (vs any other smartwatch) are analogous to Garmin users who like MIP instead of AMOLED. In both cases, the wider population of users cannot understand why the smaller population likes their weird niche product. It’s ironic bc the Garmin AMOLED user judges the MIP user for liking MIP while failing to see that everyone else judges them for liking Garmin.
People who mindlessly gas up Garmin and insist their high prices are acceptable because the products are so awesome actually do sound like cult members to me. Either that or shills.
I think you overestimate the price elasticity of demand for personal sports gadgetry, particularly a watch. If you buy a f9xx every two years or so the cost is about $1 a day at this new $750 price tier. Most adults spend more on coffee. Certainly for a triathlete this is a de minimus cost compared to other gear. I mean bikes and cycling kit — my god.
The thing about Garmin 9xx and fenix 8 is they have *all the features* and compatibility. Anything you might want to do or connect is going to work with this if it works with anything. That’s one definition of “best”.
Now you could say a bunch of stuff is half-baked and flaky and maybe that’s the case but for the moment Garmin is doing ok. Maybe it’s overpriced. I certainly don’t prefer the prices going up but also my revealed preference is I have continued to buy a new Garmin every 2-3 years. I also upgraded over time from a forerunner 2xx to a fenix so “cult of Garmin”. There were points where you could argue a Coros Vertix was better value than a fenix 7X or enduro 2 but there are switching costs and I understand the Garmin ecosystem. Or maybe a Suunto Ocean is a better deal than a Fenix 8. The absolute difference is a couple of hundred dollars which doesn’t really justify the hassle unless the Garmin really starts to f**k up.
The fenix 8 firmware is actually shockingly flaky so far which does piss me off and early on I kicked myself for buying. But it is getting better now and I do prefer the anoled to MIP. My 51mm f8 has essentially identical battery performance to my f7x — which is amazing. If they fix the stability problems and add features I will likely forgive them. But good will is not infinite and Garmin can and will lose customers if they continue to squander it and not provide the perception of value.
Are there any better options for recording backpacking now than the following Workaround?
• Set a custom weight in your profile to approximate your total pack weight (body weight + backpack).
• Use a custom activity profile based on Hiking and rename it “Backpacking” — this way, you can track specific backpacking stats while retaining core metrics.
likely just a few more numbers that we will look at in the first 2weeks and never again, but still, would be cool to have them back-ported to the top line models
I’ve calendared myself to look on Black Friday 2026 to see if it’s been discounted. (Not kidding.). The flashlight and sapphire glass make me drool. Until 2026 I’ll depend on the screen protector on my reliable 955.
The impact load is particularly interesting from the musculoskeletal point of view. Love to experiment with it on my Enduro 3. Part of the reason why I don’t train with Garmin’s first beats algos is their over reliance on 3-zone model. Your phosphagen, anaerobic, and aerobic systems are always firing all the time independent of an artificial tier. And that anaerobic/low-aerobic/etc deficiency Garmin loves to report is not the full picture.
I’m interested to hear about these triathlon plans that this watch has. Specifically, whether it can generate duathlon plans as well. I always find with the daily suggested workouts currently that I’m capable of doing more. It would also be good if they could suggest workouts that fit within a limited time eg 1hr. I’m more likely to only have time for a 1hr workout during the week and some of the daily suggested workouts get too long.
That’s exactly what I thought. But then in AU it’s $1400!! Converting directly from USD->AUD the US price translates to $1170AUD, so they’re certainly gouging here.
It’s fine if the US wants to add import taxes to screw their own citizens. But it seems like Garmin has taken this US tax and run with it into other markets. Probably because people have been buying anyway.
It’s more complicated because Australia (among many other countries) have a VAT that is incorporated into the ticket price and I think also import duties. US prices are displayed exclusive of sales tax which is then added on at the time of sale based on the jurisdiction. Tariffs of course raise the base price in the US before sales tax.
That’s a good point. But it’s a pretty safe bet that the US tariffs are a big reason for the price increase in the US. And Garmin seems to have passed this on to the rest of the world.
Probably because they can (…and also not to stoke the ire of US politicians by increasing US prices alone).
Fenix 8 was insanely priced a year ago….way before tariffs. Don’t make the excuse for Garmin. Competition is showing that hardware is getting less expensive, not more.
Hang on, these aren’t manufactured in the US, and unless Garmin logistics is completely bonkers then they won’t be shipping them from Taiwan where they are assembled to the US and then on to AU/NZ or even EU. So Trump tariffs have no bearing on the markets outside North America (I’m saying this as potentially the Canadian distribution route could be via a USA warehouse.
However, if you think AU is bad, then NZ is $1599NZD = 1470AUD/943USD including our 15% sales tax. And $349NZD for the chest strap.
Honestly, I may be missing something, but even taking onto account some shipping cost impacts due to relative market size in NZ, 25% difference is bonkers. I’d love to get some rationale for the cost from Garmin.
There was an article maybe a month or so back, I think on The Verge, that basically explained how the US tarifs are making products more expensive for other countries, through counter-tariffs.
In short, China for example, counter-tariffed products coming from the US. So there are many tech-specific components that might start in the US, then go to China/etc to get added into products, and then exported out to anywhere globally.
Obviously, some of the price increase here is Garmin being Garmin, some of it is tariff uncertainty, and some of it is inflation (the FR965 actually mostly escaped major price increase compared to previous models).
Australia has pretty strict ‘parallel import’ laws, and so what happens, is the creation of businesses in a market segment, which will import (say in this case) Garmin products.
They will buy at a markup from Garmin, on sell to shops, with another markup, who then sell to customers, for, you guessed it right, another markup!
Is it wrong of me to lay the price increase at the door of the US tariff war?
UK launch pricing for the 965 to 970 has gone from £599 to £629: +5%
US launch pricing for the same devices has gone from $599 to $749: +25%
This seems like a US issue? Exchange rates have not meaningfully moved over the period, so…
If that would be true, prices should come down in case China and the US are striking a deal, which they eventually will….but I bet that these prices are here to stay.
Keep in mind Garmin watches aren’t made in China. As noted elsewhere, the China tarrif situation actually has a loophole for smartphones and smartwatches (likely thanks to Apple). Taiwan is currently in a substantially higher tariff bucket (where Garmin makes almost all their products in their own factories). Till that gets sorted (or rather, un-f’d), expect higher prices.
Of course, tariffs are only one part of it. The other is just Garmin being Garmin. They aren’t having their most profitable years ever by accident….
Damn MIP dead on FR.. I was really hoping they would stick and have one. Its not like there isn’t a variant in Fenix line so parts a plenty. Lack of MIP essentially kills this upgrade for me. Now I either need to look at enduro 3 (too large) or fenix 8 (heavy). Or change my allegiance to some other make.
I’d invite you to give the Enduro 3 a shot if you can — it looks large but wears light, and if you don’t need to dress it up for some office thing then it might just end up working. The specs are great.
Speaking of dressing up. The new color schemes are quite impossible to match with any professional attire unless you are a clown or sportstech influencer.
Back to Apple Watch and going to Karoo when time to upgrade the Edge 1040. The Connect+ charge is just too much of a F*ck You after spending thousands on hardware. Un-Garmining.
At this price point, does it make more sense to just buy the Enduro 3? Battery life isn’t even close and the only thing you’d really miss out on is the ECG (don’t care), speaker/microphone (don’t care), and the Running Tolerance stat. Running tolerance would be nice but I think I’d be worth sacrificing for 3x battery life.
What’s new with the dynamic round trip routing? Garmin seems to be saying this is a new or updated feature, but Ray didn’t mention it in his video or article.
No LTE in the 970 is a bummer. Hopefully there will be an updated 975 with LTE shortly like they did with the 945. I was really hoping this watch would have LTE.
That’s really crazy at these prices.
Garmin has to pray that Apple doesn’t catch up with the next watchOS or Apple Watch (Ultra) in terms of sports metrics.
Google has shown the way with its Pixel watch.
I’m curious to see how the market develops.
AWU won’t catch up with Garmin’s metrics anytime soon, because they are far, far, far away from even having very fundamental calculations.
Let me show one example: Garmin can suggest a good workout for today (heck, it can even base it on the race event if you set one).
To do this:
– it has to know your current training load (this is the only thing that AW also does, however, IMO Apple’s implementation is garbage)
– it has to know the training load focus (Apple doesn’t have it)
– it has to be able to calculate your HR zones to suggest the workout structure (Apple: I can easily hit ~200 bpm, and AW hard-limits max HR at 220-age, which in my case is ~180ish. It can’t even properly calculate max HR, not to mention the zones themselves)
– it has to incorporate sleep, HRV, and possibly other body metrics (AW can only tell how long I have slept)
– it should be able to auto-calculate LTHR (AW doesn’t even have this metric)
Apple is obviously able to do this, as they have superior hardware (even the HR sensor is way better), but their software is lacking. IMHO, all of Apple’s sports-related department management should be fired. They are implementing “mind-blowing” features like auto-pause for years, in some super complicated way, where the basic implementation should take one software development sprint (2 weeks): if speed < X for Y seconds, then pause; unpause the same way, X and Y differing depending on workout type.
As much as I love my AWU, I still run with Fenix (and AWU on the other hand, because Garmin is exactly as helpless with implementing LTE as Apple is with sports-related things).
You are aware that there are apps like Athlytic or Bezel, Fitiv Pulse or Peak Watch for the Apple Watch that do all that. So you can upgrade this functionality with an additional app that gives you markers like Body Battery, Recovery Time, Stress, HRV variance and all that. It’s just not there “out of the box” with Apple.
I have tested multiple apps and none of them were even close to what my Fenix 7 does. The best app I have found, Athlytics (which I still subscribe) is developed by one guy. I have some trust issues here…
Of course, you’ve raised some good points and Apple definitely has the edge at the moment!
At the moment, it looks as if Apple’s AW sales figures are regularly falling.
On the hardware side, Apple no longer has many options.
That leaves only the software -> Sport.
If Apple only implements 3 points here every year that Garmin currently offers, then Garmin will quickly feel it in 2-3 years.
Sports metrics and training plans would be no problem for Apple to implement. If necessary, Apple could make 2-3 takeovers and bring the knowledge in-house.
Apple’s greed and the compulsion to push people towards the more expensive Apple Watch Ultra is extremely annoying and makes me think about it
Only the AWU, for example, offers a night mode and this Precision Start (start only when the GPS signal is there) and that’s just ridiculous.
And will Apple ever tackle the battery life?
What hope is left?
Suunto (Suunto Race S) and Polar (Polar Vantage M3).
I hope both will benefit from Garmin becoming more and more expensive!
At the moment, I would rather continue to use my Garmin FR265 as my daily watch.
I rarely use my AW10. (Waiting for next watchOS releases!)
Maybe buy a reduced FR970 in the future,
Because I would like to have sapphire glass, ECG and offline maps.
The FR570 is a huge disappointment.
And the FR970 is insane in terms of price.
The problem is not only implementing the features, but doing it right.
2 examples:
– training load. Apple doesn’t use TRIMP-derived like all the world does. They are basing on avg hr * activity time. So, 30 min run with hardcore intervals in the middle gives you ex. 6*30=180. They are not even giving the number, but you have a chart. And somewhat brisk walking that is rated as 3 gives you also 180 after 60 minutes. If you use automatic rating, then 1 hour walking is equal to 30 minutes of hardcore running. This is clearly BS.
And if you decide to override the automatic rating then firstly, you get consistency problems, and secondly, it is more complex that it seems to be (i tried).
– maps. I have AWU, marketed as outdoor watch. Apple has maps and even navigation feature. However, they are not using OSM, but their own maps. It’s ok for city navigation, but forests are basically a green area of nothing. It is useless, and you can’t even import a gpx trace to have a route. Utter garbage.
Obviously, like others said there are 3rd party apps. But firstly, the quality is mediocre (Work Outdoors: UX sucks, no navigation, heck, it doesn’t even know how long your route is unless you put it manually), and secondly, they are often subscription based apps where your health metrics are interpreted by developers, not sports science. I tried some and basing on their metrics, for example, I was overtraining and not training enough at the same time. I prefer my health related advices to be well considered, I trust Apple, I trust Garmin, I do not trust some developer studios that are not widely recognized, well respected and possibly not even having medical expertise onboard.
Ads a great example; even Runna isn’t even capable of basing on hr instead of pace, and when I tried to follow this plan I had to stop twice (in same plan!) because my body couldn’t handle overtraining of this magnitude they were suggesting. Went straight back to Garmin, and it helped me to get back on track.
I wonder if Garmin’s target demographic is shifting. I see a lot of posters claiming to be priced out, first of the fenix 8 and now this, yet Garmin has been seeing some strong earnings. Are they targeting the upper middle class more and more, promoting themselves as a luxury brand, and what’s a dirtbag adventurer to do? I’d be curious to hear from someone with inside knowledge.
Ray, with regards to the new running related features, will Garmin publish research on them or even some white papers? When you consider all of the “scores” that have proliferated out of Garmin in the past few years, I’d like to see some published research to back them up.
Do you know if the known altimeter issue with Forerunner 955 that have been exposed to salt or chlorinated water (swimming!) has been resolved with this model?
For years I am waiting for direct Dexcom or Libre CGM support in Garnin – Apple Watches already have that. I do realize that we Type 1 Diabetics are a minority but there are a lot of us and I hear non diabetic athletes are sometimes wearing CGM Sensors to keep track of their blood glucose as well. For us this is a killer feature that would make me buy an expensive watch immediately – I would love to go for a run without having to lug a smartphone around.
There are basically no new features in these watches currently that would make me switch from my fenix 6x pro. The new displays that are no longer MIP with corresponding bad battery runtimes are actually a step back in my opinion. Regarding prices and Connect+ I will see. Prices for garmin watches were always outrageous. With a CGM feature added I wouldn’t care. As it is now, someone else can pay them, I am not interested.
If you are anything but a runner, this 970 doesn’t bring too much really new stuff, apart from the evening report. I wouldn’t buy one new, but in a year the first will show up on the second hand market and if I can gett one for less than 500, I’ll give it a try.
Ok, the prize. Mhm: from the hardware side they have added (compared to a 965):
sapphire glass
ECG/Elevate Gen 5 sensor
speaker+mic
flashlight
and from the software/feature side: also a bunch of new things.
I’m going to make myself unpopular: one could consider it (just) appropriate. Of course I would have hoped for a cheaper price! And why can the competition do it so much cheaper…
However, I think the price of the 570 is completely excessive. Garmin isn’t doing itself any favors with this…
Plus don’t forget the inclusion of proper triathlon training plans (given what Ray has shown in the video it now supports even middle-distance events, maybe full distance as well) and triathlon race guidance (finally!) This is another €100-€200 saved on external tools like TriDot.
I’m waiting for the final review but overall the feature gap between my 955 solar and 970 is big enough to begrudgingly justify the purchase. And I can’t stress how I hate the solar PowerGlass on 955 Solar.
I would definitely skip the new HRM though, at least until my HRM-Pro+ breaks down.
Really interesting that dive functionality didn’t make the cut. I think that’s the biggest divergence from Fenix hardware since the FR935 era. For many of us that’s a huge differentiator and the main reason I upgraded from Epix to F8
I bought an Epix 2 Sapphire Titanium for 399 Euro a few weeks ago. This watch has all the essential features (lightweight, lasting battery, SatIQ, 32 GB memory, perfect screen). Can’t see any reason to pay this really high prices. The new features are gimmicks to me no one really needs.
Sad that this one tiny thing negatively impacts my user experience so much but does this watch also have the white text on a yellow background on the pool swim rest screen? I got new googles with a slightly different tint and now it’s even harder to read.
I’m with you. I don’t understand why Garmin made this change. In my pool, it’s extremely difficult to see the rest interval. Garmin’s solution: Remove my goggles. That doesn’t really help since I need reading glasses. There’s just not enough contrast to see the interval value.
Yes, does this watch have the same white-text-on-yellow-background for pool swim rests? This is clearly a bug – I get adding yellow border to the screen to show you’re in a Rest interval, but white text on a yellow background is impossible to read through droplets, or even slightly foggy goggles, or if you wear glasses out of the pool, and especially through droplets and slightly foggy goggles AND you need glasses!!! It’s a BUG or it’s by-design but poorly implemented. Anyway, is it that way on this watch too?
I’d be interested in what features are pointless for us that wears the watch only while running, and something like an Apple Watch the rest of the time.
If you’re interested then just take the list of features and make a decision which of those are important for you as a runner and which are not. Clearly there is no need for Ray to do an article on something you can just work out for yourself with the available information. Just saying…
Hey Ray, when you do the FR970 comparison to Fenix 8 could you also include notes on comparing to Enduro 3? These three feel like the ‘big 3’ top ends right now.
Also, apologies if you’ve discussed this in prior posts but does the lack of features in the smaller 570 come down to room for hardware? For those with smaller wrists, especially women, it feels like their options are very limited to get the full hardware/software suite in a smaller package?
Great first look Ray, as usual. Regarding your point on Running Dynamics long term value (interest?) for us common mortals, what I’d really love to see is macro analytics on it, I have hundreds (thousands?) of runs on my 945 and 955, and would love medium/long term insights into how my stride length/vertical oscillation, cadence or GCT are trending over time and correlated with my fitness or Endurance Score…do you see any chance of this happening and how likely would that be behind the Connect+ paywall?
$910 usd to cover every metric I may or may not need. (FR970 and HRM600). The days of throwing on a pair of Brooks Chariots, Dolfins shorts, a Casio and actually beating someone in a race vs Strava are long gone. But man, I love all the metrics. It has shown my steady decline as I age and gives me hope I may improve tomorrow. Today, I don’t think I need a LED torch built into my watch, but maybe next month’s early morning dark run it will come in handy. With the new Step Speed Loss feature, I can show my wife hard proof why I am slowing down and she will let me have that bowl of ice cream.
Yeah, this watch is expensive, and I had just gotten a new Garming HRM a couple weeks ago to replace the old one that died, but I am sure, being the tech geek I am, I will search the couch for coins and buy this. How else will I get faster?
I have searched everywhere but am not able to find anywhere how many connect IQ datafields can be set up in one activity. Can you tell me if that is more than 2?
Did anyone notice the 570 and the 970 are exacly the same size, the same display aso. Could it be they are the same watch, where Garmin did only unlock more software features (including maps) on the 970?
I’ve always been an early adopter of Garmin watches (910XT, 920XT, Fenix 2, Fenix 3, Fenix 5 Plus). However, over time, prices have started to rise significantly for relatively small hardware and software modifications. The price increase has now become substantial, unlike that of other brands that also produce excellent watches (Suunto, Coros, and even Amazfit).
So, while I still appreciate Garmin, for the past 3–4 years I’ve focused on models from 2–3 years ago, which might have a few fewer features but are perfectly suited to my needs. In fact, I’m currently very happy with my FR255 for swimming, road running, and racing (triathlon), my Epix Gen 2 (non-PRO) for trail running, and Edge 530 for cycling. Each of them cost under €300 (except the Epix, which was slightly more). At this point, my next target will be the 965 next year!
Such a shame the bezel on the black watch is blacked out. Coating over titanium is such a miss and what a great way to make your watch look like any other $5 piece of junk from Dollar General. Is this watch made for triathletes or wanna be donut force.
How are the rapidly escalating prices of these units not a headline. In Australia we’ve gone from $999 (FR965) to $1399 for the new 970. A 40% increase?! Yes there are new features, but it’s getting ridiculous. Are Garmin taking the Sony PS5 approach and padding prices in the rest of the world to cover the Trump levy in what I’d assume is their largest market in the US?
On smartwatch mode the battery dropped to 15 days (from 965), is this with SPO2 reading always on like most smartwatches or does it take a hit when you turn it on?
On previous Garmin’s it was taking a big hit! If it doesn’t on this one 15 days is something i could live with.
Thank you for the hands on! Looking forward to the full review and a possible comparison with F8!
With the summer/Father’s Day price drop of the Enduro 3 to $799, I’m very interested in whether or not the E3 will get Running Tolerance and Impact Load Factor will come to either the E3 or F8 family. I would think Garmin would want to sell the new HRM strap to the likely large group of E3/F8 owners so it would make sense to carry over most of the new features. Has anyone seen either of those show up in beta software?
1 second recording has no impact on pace rounding. 1 second vs smart recording only impacts what gets saved in the file and has zero impact on what you see on screen during the activity. Even distance recorded in the activity file won’t be impacted as it’s not just straight line distance from point to point.
That said, 1 second recording as default would be great as the only reason for smart recording is file size. Any activity with a power meter already was ever second as are all activities on the Edge devices.
Pity about the gopping ugly AF neon band. What on earth were they thinking.
Deal crusher for me as I wear the watch for work. (Yeah I have a Fenix 3 I can use for work instead, but I can rarely be assed to charge it up and wear it unless its a special occasion.)
I’ll hang on to my 965 Solar until they release a variant with a black or muted band of some kind thanks.
Might even push me to try an Apple watch whilst I’m waiting.
Before you jump into the Amazon marketplace, it is good to make a price comparison. Amazon became the US-style AliExpress, but with double prices. For example, the HRM Pro Plus: link to geizhals.at
Supporting content creators on YouTube? Lol, very funny…
Idiots at YouTube first created the Subscription metrics. Why should users subscribe if they check the website and see what is new? I check Ray’s web and that’s all I have to do. For the presenters available only on YouTube (e.g., GCN/GTN), users know when a new video is available, because it is coming regularly.
As a second metrics, idiots at YouTube implemented the “watched till the end” parameter.
Who will watch videos till the end if it is interrupted by advertisements?
So, having installed AdBlock, I ended up banned from YouTube.
Idiots at YouTube, you are violating my free decision about what content I will be watching. Even more, you are violating the parents’ right to keep children away from commercial interests.
I won’t uninstall AdBlock, and I refuse to pay for premium. I could be the one and only in this situation, but then, So Long, YouTube, you won’t be missing!
Is my understanding correct that the Forerunner 970 doesn’t support Voice Notes (link to support.garmin.com) even though it would have all the hardware required? Any reason for this? Any chance Garmin will support it soon with a software update? Sometimes I have some good idea that I would like to save as a voice memo for myself during a long run.
Correct. I don’t see it there. I’ll ask if I’m missing something, but by now usually Garmin would have sent over any corrections (I always ask all companies if they spot anything technically inaccurate to let me know), and nothing came through.
Is there a good way to attach the Forerunner 970 to a standard Garmin mount (as used, e.g., for an Edge 840)?
The QuickFit® Quarter-turn Bike Mount (link to garmin.com) isn’t compatible with Forerunner. The Forerunner 970 lists the Bicycle Mount Kit (link to garmin.com) under accessories, but this looks like it attaches to a round handlebar (who still has this?) rather than a standard Garmin mount as many of us have on our road/tri bicycles.
Someone will have to try it as it’s been hit and miss if you can use the Fenix bike mounts with Forerunners. Some work, some don’t. You would have to switch to a Quick Fit band so you can easily remove the band, but I’d recommend that anyway. That’s one of the first things I do with Forerunners so that I can also use velcro bands. My 945lte worked on the 42mm Fenix mount, although a bit snug. Pretty sure the 965 worked on the 47mm Fenix mount, although slightly loose.
Odd that Garmin hasn’t come out with a bike mount specific for the spacing of Forerunner pins as it would also help sell more Quick Fit bands. Being a tri watch, you’d think this would be a priority.
That said, it will also have to be seen how well the display stays on during a ride. One of the biggest issues with the Epix2 on the handlebars was the screen would spend most of the time dimmed so you couldn’t actually see it.
Hello Ray, comparing the FR 970 to the turn-by-turn notification of the 965, is it still the same anoying alarm like or did Garmin change to something less irritating like it is on the Fenix 8?
Garmin gave a lot of money to the republican party in the US. Take that as you will.
As for me, someone who has bought at least every other flagship forerunner since the 305, the prices have gotten out of hand compared to the competition. My FR955 is still working fine and none of the new stuff really grabs me. I would like LTE (I carry a motorola razr flip phone with me that is fairly small for a smartphone but would be nice to not need it). When the time comes I’ll be looking at alternatives.
No comment on the RD running pod. It has disappeared from website even on previous products. Are they still able to connect with both the 570 and 970, or must a person spend for the new strap to get the same info?
No sure what the value would be (I don’t have/use and RD-POD), but Garmin’s CA website (for example) does list both the FR570 and FR970 under “compatible devices” for the RD-POD.
Just my two cents: something that’s really starting to piss me off these days is that as soon as a new model with new features comes out, people immediately start whining about when these new features will be released for, say, the Fenix 8 series etc. New features often come out (later) for older models as well, but the decision lies with Garmin (not the user), and we have no right to control it. It’s like with small children, where another child gets a newer toy, and you just have to have it too (whether you actually need/use it is another matter). Cheers!
Looks quite nice, with some useful upgrades. Price has gone up a bit but is bearable (UK). However, Connect +. Deal breaker for me, at the very least until I can see exactly what Garmin is going to do with it. Also I can’t find any mention of Connect + on the 970 product page, so anyone going straight there might not even know that they may have to cough up another £6.99 a year to get the best out of their already expensive watch. Disingenuous at best.
Actually what is disingenuous is that comment.
Unless something is specifically listed as a Connect+ feature, it is included without subscription. Simple as that.
You mention the speaker functionality goes beyond beeps… Just wondering whether any activity alerts can be set to talk to you, eg tell you you’re out of range and why, eg too fast, rather than using beeps? Also any navigation based speaking alerts?
Do you know if the Enduro 3 and Fenix 8 will be compatible with the HRM 600 and its new running metrics? Very oddly, the list of compatible devices on Garmin’s official website for the HRM 600 does not include either model, though much older models are included.
Strategically it makes no sense for Garmin to limit the market for the HRM 600 to 970 and 570 purchasers. Those are also derivative of the fenix 8 platform anyway. I would be stunned if the fenix 8 range including the enduro, tactix and other specialty SKUs did not get support for these new metrics in the next quarterly update. That has been the pattern: the forerunner 9xx has had exclusive new features which immediately came to the corresponding fenix generation.
Honestly the fenix 8 internal hardware is so similar to the fenix 7 / Epix 2 there seems like no reason that they couldn’t port these metrics to those platforms other than will or segmentation of features to new products. I think that is unlikely but Garmin could do it.
I was really looking forward to this watch dropping. Then Connect+ happened in March. I think the new features on the FR970 are great and in line with what I was hoping for. I have no interest in LTE or solar.
That being said, I think the price of $650 is a bit of a stretch – $750 is just insulting. Then there is the fact that all new significant feature development and features will be pay-walled in plus subscription. I use an Edge 840 and FR955 with all the sensors, etc. The FR is mostly stable (after 3 years), but the Edge still acts up a LOT. It’s getting harder for me to justify staying on Garmin’s ecosystem. I like the idea of the FR970, but I think I’m one firmware bug away from a Coros PACE Pro.
As I’ve reported about the Forerunner 965 (which I own) compared to my old Epix 2 (which I sold, too heavy for me), the Forerunners I’ve had – even these top-of-the-line ones – seem WAY less responsive to button presses and other navigation actions than the Epix series was (and I’m presuming also the Fenix series). That is, I start some action, and there has been a small delay, or I finish an exercise and it takes several seconds before pressing buttons can do ANYTHING. On the Epix 2, when I finished an exercise, I could immediately navigate around the menus, etc, there was not waiting for some process to complete.
I don’t know if this was due to slower processors, or if Garmin intentionally throttles things in order to get people to upgrade to Epix or Fenix series to get better performance, but it has been a big pain in the butt for me.
Did you notice if the Forerunner 970’s UI is as snappy as that of the Epix 2 or modern Fenix series, without extra delays in processing data, etc? I like the lightness of the Forerunner series (I don’t like a heavy chunk on my wrist while working out), but I want the processing speed and snappy UI of the top-end Multisport devices.
I have never experienced that difference between my Epix Gen2 and FR965 (or previous generations like FR945/Fenix 6).
I venture that it is something specific to your situation or devices.
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No LTE and no Solar….another let down.
and yet – when solar first came out (I had a Fenix 6 Pro Solar that I really liked) almost every hardcore Garmin user lampooned it. Thought it was useless. Mocked the solar function. They did the same thing on the flashlight, notably, when it came on the F7, until people started to USE it, and they realized maybe Garmin does have a clue after all.
And LTE – the device that did come out with LTE, the 745LTE, didn’t sell at all. No one bought it, for the most part.
So – not sure too many folks are going to be let down without LTE or solar, really….
I’d buy this in a heartbeat if it had LTE. This is the only advantage I see an iWatch has over Garmin. I don’t want to have to take my phone out with me.
yes I’m sure there are a certain quantity of users (such as yourself) who might want LTE now. I’m just saying Garmin HAD that function before and literally no one bought it at the time. Perhaps the market has shifted, and people are potentially seeing the value of having always-there connectivity. But man when the 745LTE came out, it landed with a thud. No buyers. 🤷♂️
Also had the 6 solar, which didn’t have a meaningful impact on the battery, now have a 7 and the solar does make a visible impact.
When the 945 LTE was out, I was using an inreach for my adventure activities and wasn’t as keen on livetrack features. Now that I’m older with a family, my priorities have shifted, and would love for tracking and communication without my phone or a separate device.
Yes, technically Garmin had LTE functionally on previous models, but non of the useful LTE features that people want. If Garmin make watch which can receive texts, stream music, make calls etc. and is not tied to Garmins subscribe service people will buy it for sure.
Yes, technically Garmin had LTE functionally on previous models, but non of the useful LTE features that people want. If Garmin make watch which can receive texts, stream music, make calls etc. and is not tied to Garmins subscribe service people will buy it for sure.
As someone who suffered a stroke a couple of years ago by doesn’t want to carry a phone on runs LTE could (literally) be a lifesaver. I really hope that Garmin brings out a new LTE watch soon.
Why would you need to take your phone with this watch?
You don’t, that’s why I use the 945 LTE
You had a stroke? Carry your freakin’ phone. What in the world… Major medical issue but won’t carry a phone. My FIL had a stroke and that’s how he got help. For your family’s sake, if nobody else. Wow.
Pretty sure he said he doesn’t “want” to, not that he doesn’t.
As @Charles said, the (apparent) commercial failure of Garmin’s previous LTE watch(es) was probably more due to the implementation (need to subscribe via Garmin (as opposed to with a telco like most smartwatches), limited wireless functionality (focused on safety/tracking rather than messaging, calls, etc), not available in many countires),…) rather than a lack of demand/consumer interest,
So upgrading from my Venu 3 will get me a flashlight, maps and some new metrics (if I buy a very expensive new hrm strap ) ?
Hope the voice stuff is improved, it’s close to useless in my Venue 3. Mic and speaker is very low quality imho.
Can’t wait for the full review.
Curious how well the 970 will do at this price. Value for money seems pretty poor.
Price increase. 🤮
Garmin Connect+ 🤮🤮
Make a decision, Garmin. Either roll Connect+ in for free with all the premium watches, or cut down to a realistic price (*cough* Coros *cough*) and let people choose whether they want the subscription.
Plus you need to upgrade your HR strap to get the new running dynamics feature +$169
right?
I’m looking at other brands personally
Do you think the software features (eg evening report, running impact) will come to the 965?
The Fenix 7 got almost none of the Fenix 8 features. Why would the older 9xx watch get new features?
4-5 years ago the post launch support for garmin watches was great. My FR945 and Fenix6 at the time learned a lot of new tricks in the year after their respective release.
I guess these times are over.
Came here to ask the same thing about the Epix 2
When is Rucking coming to the Epix Gen 2?
Unfortunately never. I expect only the new running dynamic metrics to lure you in buying the new strap.
will some features come to the 965/955 or won’t that happen?
I won’t happen.
I just can’t comprehend how Garmin keeps raising prices as better and better products come on the market for half or even more of the price. You can say what you want about Amazfit or Coros but after using them you can’t justify the price of a Garmin unless your a top 1% athlete that needs certain aspects. The Fenix 8 has the same internals as the Fenix 7 except with Amoled screen yet they charge more and stop updating the 7. $750 for this is robbery
Thanks a lot for this very helpful first impression!
What’s the new triathlon coach? Will that go to all watches (fenix8)
Will this slate of “new to Garmin” features be available on the Fenix 8 solar edition sometime soon?
Nothing too surprising about this watch, it’s pretty much the expected incremental updates; a 965 + some of the hardware features from the Fenix 8 passed down to it.
The price is a little absurd though.
I like the new running metrics, I’m particularly interested in the step speed loss, as I think unlike almost all the other Running Dynamics metrics, this one is actually actionable, particularly for newer runners who haven’t gotten good coaching on their form and might be losing way too much energy to bad foot placement.
I’d consider myself in the target market for a stat like that. Though for a new runner, the extra $160 on the HRM 600 would probably be a bit of a jump if you
I’m a cyclist and hikert who is looking to switch from an Apple Watch to a Garmin watch as I already have the Edge. I run a bit, but would like to get more into it. This seems like the right watch considering how I want the mappings, already in the Garmin ecosystem, battery life, sapphire glass, yet can’t justify the pricing on the Fenix.
As you said though, the price seems a bit absurd for such an incremental update.
What is evening report? I assume not similar to Daily Summary which is useless…
How about just reading the article. You even get screenshots for the evening report to see what it includes…
25% increase….thx but no thx
Anyone understand why it is named forerunner 970 and not 975? Does that indicate there will also be a 975 coming? For me it is just confusing to step away from a nomenclature structure that has been around for a long time.
They also dropped XT.
910XT, 920XT, 935, 945, 955, 965.
I think they realized they would quickly run ot of future mode numbers in a few years if they kept the increment at 10.
It used to be that the XT meant triathlon and ending in 5 meant optical HR. But now they all have triathlon and optical HR. On the other hand they are running out of numbers before rolling over to 4 digits so I think it’s just an economy of numbers situation. They can increment by 5 for several generations without having to come up with an entirely new naming scheme. (I would bet on Forerunner 9000 eventually.)
Running out of numbers is a good enough explanation for me. Did not think of that, thanks. And I realize also now that it has not always been a 5 in the end. The FR310XT I had did not even start with a 9, and was still a top of the line MJ product. :-D
prolly just product managers being silly. if i were to guess the old pms are gone, let go or retired or quit. and the new ones came in and they gotta change everything: product name, screen, price, add subscription, etc. to feel useful. and then ppl will stop buying. always the same story.
Regarding the new hrm, quite glad to hear that they ditched the integrated strap/pod model…
In the old days, integrated pod/contact area was the way to go, with a replaceable dumb strap for the elastic part. I’m still on an HRM1G (and on some off-brand clone) because none of the separate pod ones gave me acceptable reliability. Garmin, Polar H10, exotic silver thread third party straps, all have been disappointing eventually.
Much more meaningful updates over the 965 as compared to epix pro/Fenix 7 pro users upgrading to the Fenix 8. But the eye watering prices are driving may garmin customers away.
I’m interested by the new running metrics. I hope some of them are ported to the Fenix 8 line. Any guesses as to if that will happen ?
I would also like to know if the HRM600’s strap is made from different materials as the HRM PRO (non-plus)? The HRM PRO gave me a horrible rash, and after ~2 weeks, I couldn’t wear it anymore. Paused for a few months, tried again, same problem. (And yes, I washed and scrubbed the thing after each use).
Never had problems with Polar H9 or H10.
I had something very similar with luna sandals that caused me to have hives on my feet and no amount of washing or leeching would fix it. I think I had a contact allergy to an adhesive in them or something.
The advantage of this modular format is that it may be compatible with other manufacturer straps.
I used to use the old garmin HRM3 pod on a replacement Polar strap.
This may be a big price increment from the forerunner 965 but it’s a significant discount for a fenix 8. Having not seen it in person it seems very similar conceptually to how the enduro 3 is a variant of the MIP fenix 8 that is a little streamlined and specific to purpose. This is an AMOLED 47mm fenix 8 with a bit of a streamlined case.
I think that the materials upgrades may appeal to some that have been in the fenix camp just to get a bezel and sapphire. I have a friend who cracked a forerunner on a pool deck and switched to fenix and then expix pro for sapphire and bezel. This seems to fit the bill except she is into the 43mm case.
I also wonder if they put the chartreuse and purple accents on there strategically to push people to the fenix just to get the neutral color option. Like the apple black tax.
Funny enough, I feel like I’m in that camp.
Wanted to switch from Apple Watch to Garmin, especially since I already have an Edge bike computer. The Fenix 8 seemed a bit too expensive and overkill, yet I really wanted the more durable materials since I enjoy the outdoors and find my Apple Watches quite scratched up after a few years.
The bezel still is recessed and the first point of contact if it drops is still the glass. I always hated the the rounded glas on the f965 and unfortunately they kept it (although the glass is more robust). So I will keep the F8 and hope that the features are coming over in the next update.
I was more than ready to throw my money towards Garmin for an upgrade. Until Connect+ appeared. And then this price. What a joke.
At that price point with little new features (even though I’d love to have the flashlight) I’ll skip that model and either wait another two years for the next one or make the switch to Apple Watch Ultra. Going to take a very close look once Apple releases v3.
Don’t forget! Maybe the increase of price is for new watch faces! 🤡
Ray, can we expect that Impact Score and other features will come to the next quarterly update for the fenix 8 series?
The Impact Score is really interesting because they are trying to capture musculoskeletal load and not just aerobic TSS-type load. Having an empirical neuromuscular load number is a really missing feature from most of the fitness tracking world.
No one here can answer this, not even Ray. The watch isn’t even on sale yet haha.
I’ve sent over a note to get clarification on this one.
Any word from Garmin on that? I got a F8 and would be really baffled if the top model doesn’t get the new features (especially since Apple is passing almost everything down to their watches for many generations).. But I am a little worried that they need some stuff for the F8 Pro..
Not yet. Most of the folks were travelling back from NYC media events, so, a bit delayed. I suspect I’ll have answers on Monday.
Can you have Battery Saver on during sleep? They removed that ability on the F8 latest betas….absurd move.
The 570 seems like a disappointing update. As far as I can see, it only has Evening Report as a software update compared to the 270. Then just a mic, a brighter screen and temperature.
Just published details of Forerunner 570 here: link to dcrainmaker.com
In the article this link is bad
i wish you would have taken a look at the “new” evening report and go over how it differs from the current evening report on my tactix 7 since you said it’s new to garmin entirely. no mention whatsoever after that little tidbit…
No problem, just added in gallery/details.
man you work fast. so it is very different from the existing evening report on the other watches. interesting. thanks!
does this have a domed or flat screen?
It looks domed in the Youtube video :(
I know we all count on Garmin watches as sports and health watches first, but they are quickly becoming mutli-tools for life, so I’m curious about a couple of other features.
First, do the speaker and microphone integrate more usefully to your phones voice assistant? (which opens up many functional opportunities)
And second, my usual comment about the placement of the super useful flashlight.
I thoroughly believe the flashlight should be on the front face of the watch, pointing toward the back of the hand.
This allows shining light on things you are pointing toward and/or holding/bracing with your hand, i.e. similar to how most people hold a flashlight, with index finger forward and palm facing laterally.
Whereas the current watch placement is more like back-handing the flashlight, like police do.
The latter does not allow you to hold something else with the hand you’re using for watch illumination.
The neon stripe is a little sad to see. I’ve got a few leather bands I throw onto my 965 for more formal events since the all black blends in well enough, but neons a little tougher! Not looking to upgrade anytime soon anyways, but that makes it just that much harder to justify!
Black sharpie FTW.
Honestly, in most light it looks just like a light silver stripe. In some light it looks similar to the MARQ Athlete yellow stripe. In no light conditions I’ve seen, does it appear neon.
Unfortunately it does become more noticeable with more ‘subdued’ straps. I have the F8 in raw titanium with the orange guard and it is very obvious with a titanium or leather band. I almost ordered the German version (with the silver/grey sensor guard) because of that.
That said, there is not a single Garmin watch that I consider even remotely dressy enough for office wear anyway. I always hide them under the shirt sleeve for that reason.
These prices are the result of the corporate greed. But if we keep on buying more and more expensive stuff, they have no reason to stop increasing prices. We need stop buying these expensive shit, no matter how good it is and switch to the brands that are driven by the values instead of greed.
I do see your point, but could it be, that Garmin covers real peoples adequate wages for R&D of products that are of superior quality and equipped with better features than the rest of the companies? It’s like many other things. The expensive part of a product or service is often not the physical production itself, but the people who develop the stuff. Therefore I am ok with paying more for a better product and, in my case, leaving out every other iteration (e.g. I won’t go to the Fenix 8 from the Fenix 7pro but to the Fenix 9). Enjoy your day!
Worse battery life for GPS-only isn’t great, especially at this price point. For example, a FR955 could be used even by ultra runners – not anymore, Fenix only.
Also my guess is they still did not upgrade the CPU and map operations (zoom, rotation) is painfully slow like on F8.
I’m really curious to see how Garmin’s sales figures will develop over the next 1-2 years, against the down?
And also with Suunto and Polar….
I hope they benefit from Garmin’s decisions.
“I do see your point, but could it be, that Garmin covers real peoples adequate wages for R&D of products that are of superior quality and equipped with better features than the rest of the companies? It’s like many other things. The expensive part of a product or service is often not the physical production itself, but the people who develop the stuff. Therefore I am ok with paying more for a better product and, in my case, leaving out every other iteration (e.g. I won’t go to the Fenix 8 from the Fenix 7pro but to the Fenix 9). Enjoy your day!”
Not sure if naive or trolling. First of all, are we supposed to be impressed that Garmin supposedly pays “adequate wages”? Is this meant to imply that Garmin’s competitors pay starvation wages? Is there any proof for either of those things?
Second, do you think that when you pay high prices for a product or service, there’s necessarily a correlation with the quality of the offering? Or could it be that Garmin charges its customers the maximum it thinks the market will bear, and pays its employees the minimum it thinks they will accept?
But just to humour this theory, I checked out Garmin’s salary information on indeed.com.
link to indeed.com
– 47% think they are paid fairly, based on 319 ratings
– the average software engineer salary is $92k
I guess that’s ok if you don’t live in a high cost of living area.
Then again, here’s a sample of some employee reviews:
“Awesome Workplace Culture, Garbage Pay
It’s pretty much all there in the title. Some of the best management and human resources I’ve had are here at Garmin. The workplace culture is fun and energetic and understanding.
Literally unlivable pay. They do not keep up with the market.”
—
“Good benefits, horrible pay, horrible management.
Easy job, no expectations from their employees, management is a joke. If you want to advance or get a raise better than 2% you better be best friends with your supervisor. Hard work means nothing here, if you aren’t playing the game of sucking up you’re better off not working here. Great benefits, probably the best package around but with that they pay less than most places around.”
Last time I checked, “horrible” and “garbage” aren’t synonymous with “adequate”.
Furthermore, nobody other than Garmin users thinks they are using a “superior product”. I say this as a runner who’s used Garmin for ~10 years.
There’s a reason that Apple Watch-wearing normies are mystified that anyone would wear a Garmin, and that WSJ published an article called “the cult of Garmin”.
There’s certain reasons I like Garmin better than Apple Watch (for example), but I recognize that puts me in the minority of the general population. And if I only wanted a smartwatch (not a runner’s watch), Apple Watch (or even Samsung Galaxy Watch) would objectively be a better choice.
Ironically, people who like Garmin (vs any other smartwatch) are analogous to Garmin users who like MIP instead of AMOLED. In both cases, the wider population of users cannot understand why the smaller population likes their weird niche product. It’s ironic bc the Garmin AMOLED user judges the MIP user for liking MIP while failing to see that everyone else judges them for liking Garmin.
People who mindlessly gas up Garmin and insist their high prices are acceptable because the products are so awesome actually do sound like cult members to me. Either that or shills.
I think you overestimate the price elasticity of demand for personal sports gadgetry, particularly a watch. If you buy a f9xx every two years or so the cost is about $1 a day at this new $750 price tier. Most adults spend more on coffee. Certainly for a triathlete this is a de minimus cost compared to other gear. I mean bikes and cycling kit — my god.
The thing about Garmin 9xx and fenix 8 is they have *all the features* and compatibility. Anything you might want to do or connect is going to work with this if it works with anything. That’s one definition of “best”.
Now you could say a bunch of stuff is half-baked and flaky and maybe that’s the case but for the moment Garmin is doing ok. Maybe it’s overpriced. I certainly don’t prefer the prices going up but also my revealed preference is I have continued to buy a new Garmin every 2-3 years. I also upgraded over time from a forerunner 2xx to a fenix so “cult of Garmin”. There were points where you could argue a Coros Vertix was better value than a fenix 7X or enduro 2 but there are switching costs and I understand the Garmin ecosystem. Or maybe a Suunto Ocean is a better deal than a Fenix 8. The absolute difference is a couple of hundred dollars which doesn’t really justify the hassle unless the Garmin really starts to f**k up.
The fenix 8 firmware is actually shockingly flaky so far which does piss me off and early on I kicked myself for buying. But it is getting better now and I do prefer the anoled to MIP. My 51mm f8 has essentially identical battery performance to my f7x — which is amazing. If they fix the stability problems and add features I will likely forgive them. But good will is not infinite and Garmin can and will lose customers if they continue to squander it and not provide the perception of value.
„ If you buy a f9xx every two years or so the cost is about $1 a day at this new $750 price tier. Most adults spend more on coffee. …“
Hello Tim Cook, is it you? ;)
Your math reminds me of that boys math / girls math thing on social media ;)
But yes, we’ve all done the math before:P
But Garmin is really overdoing it here.
I would have liked an FR570 with:
– maps
– Sapphire glass
– ECG
I could have done the math, although my FR265 works perfectly.
But not with what Garmin has delivered!
Argh, still no backpacking sports profile??
“Here’s the new sport profiles that are added:
Pool Triathlon, Brick, Rucking, Mobility, Adventure Race, Expedition, Obstacle Racing, Hunt, Fish, Horseback Riding, Fishing, Boat, Sail, Sail Race, Snorkel”
Are there any better options for recording backpacking now than the following Workaround?
• Set a custom weight in your profile to approximate your total pack weight (body weight + backpack).
• Use a custom activity profile based on Hiking and rename it “Backpacking” — this way, you can track specific backpacking stats while retaining core metrics.
Rucking is backpacking, and let’s you specify the pack weight.
Cheers!
👍 nice!
couldn’t find any reference if the new software features will be added to fenix 8 or fenix 7 as well?
* Running Tolerance
* Impact Load Factor
* Running Economy
likely just a few more numbers that we will look at in the first 2weeks and never again, but still, would be cool to have them back-ported to the top line models
I’ve calendared myself to look on Black Friday 2026 to see if it’s been discounted. (Not kidding.). The flashlight and sapphire glass make me drool. Until 2026 I’ll depend on the screen protector on my reliable 955.
The impact load is particularly interesting from the musculoskeletal point of view. Love to experiment with it on my Enduro 3. Part of the reason why I don’t train with Garmin’s first beats algos is their over reliance on 3-zone model. Your phosphagen, anaerobic, and aerobic systems are always firing all the time independent of an artificial tier. And that anaerobic/low-aerobic/etc deficiency Garmin loves to report is not the full picture.
I’m interested to hear about these triathlon plans that this watch has. Specifically, whether it can generate duathlon plans as well. I always find with the daily suggested workouts currently that I’m capable of doing more. It would also be good if they could suggest workouts that fit within a limited time eg 1hr. I’m more likely to only have time for a 1hr workout during the week and some of the daily suggested workouts get too long.
I bet some of the price increases are the new tariffs, but no way to be sure : )
Not sure if that’s the case here, as aussie price is higher than USD.
Australian price is $1,399 AUD or approx ~900 USD.
That’s insane.
That’s exactly what I thought. But then in AU it’s $1400!! Converting directly from USD->AUD the US price translates to $1170AUD, so they’re certainly gouging here.
It’s fine if the US wants to add import taxes to screw their own citizens. But it seems like Garmin has taken this US tax and run with it into other markets. Probably because people have been buying anyway.
It’s more complicated because Australia (among many other countries) have a VAT that is incorporated into the ticket price and I think also import duties. US prices are displayed exclusive of sales tax which is then added on at the time of sale based on the jurisdiction. Tariffs of course raise the base price in the US before sales tax.
That’s a good point. But it’s a pretty safe bet that the US tariffs are a big reason for the price increase in the US. And Garmin seems to have passed this on to the rest of the world.
Probably because they can (…and also not to stoke the ire of US politicians by increasing US prices alone).
Fenix 8 was insanely priced a year ago….way before tariffs. Don’t make the excuse for Garmin. Competition is showing that hardware is getting less expensive, not more.
@Brian thanks to ChAFTA no import duties. Yes, VAT is incorporated, but it is only 10%, so hard to justify 230 aud difference between US and AU price.
Hang on, these aren’t manufactured in the US, and unless Garmin logistics is completely bonkers then they won’t be shipping them from Taiwan where they are assembled to the US and then on to AU/NZ or even EU. So Trump tariffs have no bearing on the markets outside North America (I’m saying this as potentially the Canadian distribution route could be via a USA warehouse.
However, if you think AU is bad, then NZ is $1599NZD = 1470AUD/943USD including our 15% sales tax. And $349NZD for the chest strap.
Honestly, I may be missing something, but even taking onto account some shipping cost impacts due to relative market size in NZ, 25% difference is bonkers. I’d love to get some rationale for the cost from Garmin.
There was an article maybe a month or so back, I think on The Verge, that basically explained how the US tarifs are making products more expensive for other countries, through counter-tariffs.
In short, China for example, counter-tariffed products coming from the US. So there are many tech-specific components that might start in the US, then go to China/etc to get added into products, and then exported out to anywhere globally.
Obviously, some of the price increase here is Garmin being Garmin, some of it is tariff uncertainty, and some of it is inflation (the FR965 actually mostly escaped major price increase compared to previous models).
Australia has pretty strict ‘parallel import’ laws, and so what happens, is the creation of businesses in a market segment, which will import (say in this case) Garmin products.
They will buy at a markup from Garmin, on sell to shops, with another markup, who then sell to customers, for, you guessed it right, another markup!
Fenix 8 user here
Any idea if “Auto lap by timing gates” is coming to any other watches.
Waiting for clarification there.
Is it wrong of me to lay the price increase at the door of the US tariff war?
UK launch pricing for the 965 to 970 has gone from £599 to £629: +5%
US launch pricing for the same devices has gone from $599 to $749: +25%
This seems like a US issue? Exchange rates have not meaningfully moved over the period, so…
This is interesting.
Looks like a 25% hike in Canada as well.
It’s a 40% price increase in Australia, $999 for the 965 and $1399 for the 970, including tax.
If that would be true, prices should come down in case China and the US are striking a deal, which they eventually will….but I bet that these prices are here to stay.
Keep in mind Garmin watches aren’t made in China. As noted elsewhere, the China tarrif situation actually has a loophole for smartphones and smartwatches (likely thanks to Apple). Taiwan is currently in a substantially higher tariff bucket (where Garmin makes almost all their products in their own factories). Till that gets sorted (or rather, un-f’d), expect higher prices.
Of course, tariffs are only one part of it. The other is just Garmin being Garmin. They aren’t having their most profitable years ever by accident….
Garmin sure makes it tough for people to like them. Certainly need the competition to step up their game to put these clowns in their place.
Damn MIP dead on FR.. I was really hoping they would stick and have one. Its not like there isn’t a variant in Fenix line so parts a plenty. Lack of MIP essentially kills this upgrade for me. Now I either need to look at enduro 3 (too large) or fenix 8 (heavy). Or change my allegiance to some other make.
I’d invite you to give the Enduro 3 a shot if you can — it looks large but wears light, and if you don’t need to dress it up for some office thing then it might just end up working. The specs are great.
Speaking of dressing up. The new color schemes are quite impossible to match with any professional attire unless you are a clown or sportstech influencer.
Enduro 3 felt large for about a day (upgrade from 955). It feels perfect now. Love the battery life and the extra screen space is great.
My name is bonzo!
Back to Apple Watch and going to Karoo when time to upgrade the Edge 1040. The Connect+ charge is just too much of a F*ck You after spending thousands on hardware. Un-Garmining.
sera que esses novos recursos de corrida chegaram ao fenix 8??
Não chegaram. Será que chegarão? Ainda ninguém sabe.
does Sapphire Crystal means no need of using screen protector?
At this price point, does it make more sense to just buy the Enduro 3? Battery life isn’t even close and the only thing you’d really miss out on is the ECG (don’t care), speaker/microphone (don’t care), and the Running Tolerance stat. Running tolerance would be nice but I think I’d be worth sacrificing for 3x battery life.
Happy with my Enduro 3. The price difference isn’t horrendous, the battery is nuts, materials comparable, and you do get the ECG, for what it’s worth.
Out if all of Garmin’s recent releases, I think the E3 has been the only home run. If you don’t care about amoled, it might be the way to go.
What’s new with the dynamic round trip routing? Garmin seems to be saying this is a new or updated feature, but Ray didn’t mention it in his video or article.
No LTE in the 970 is a bummer. Hopefully there will be an updated 975 with LTE shortly like they did with the 945. I was really hoping this watch would have LTE.
That’s really crazy at these prices.
Garmin has to pray that Apple doesn’t catch up with the next watchOS or Apple Watch (Ultra) in terms of sports metrics.
Google has shown the way with its Pixel watch.
I’m curious to see how the market develops.
AWU won’t catch up with Garmin’s metrics anytime soon, because they are far, far, far away from even having very fundamental calculations.
Let me show one example: Garmin can suggest a good workout for today (heck, it can even base it on the race event if you set one).
To do this:
– it has to know your current training load (this is the only thing that AW also does, however, IMO Apple’s implementation is garbage)
– it has to know the training load focus (Apple doesn’t have it)
– it has to be able to calculate your HR zones to suggest the workout structure (Apple: I can easily hit ~200 bpm, and AW hard-limits max HR at 220-age, which in my case is ~180ish. It can’t even properly calculate max HR, not to mention the zones themselves)
– it has to incorporate sleep, HRV, and possibly other body metrics (AW can only tell how long I have slept)
– it should be able to auto-calculate LTHR (AW doesn’t even have this metric)
Apple is obviously able to do this, as they have superior hardware (even the HR sensor is way better), but their software is lacking. IMHO, all of Apple’s sports-related department management should be fired. They are implementing “mind-blowing” features like auto-pause for years, in some super complicated way, where the basic implementation should take one software development sprint (2 weeks): if speed < X for Y seconds, then pause; unpause the same way, X and Y differing depending on workout type.
As much as I love my AWU, I still run with Fenix (and AWU on the other hand, because Garmin is exactly as helpless with implementing LTE as Apple is with sports-related things).
You are aware that there are apps like Athlytic or Bezel, Fitiv Pulse or Peak Watch for the Apple Watch that do all that. So you can upgrade this functionality with an additional app that gives you markers like Body Battery, Recovery Time, Stress, HRV variance and all that. It’s just not there “out of the box” with Apple.
I have tested multiple apps and none of them were even close to what my Fenix 7 does. The best app I have found, Athlytics (which I still subscribe) is developed by one guy. I have some trust issues here…
Of course, you’ve raised some good points and Apple definitely has the edge at the moment!
At the moment, it looks as if Apple’s AW sales figures are regularly falling.
On the hardware side, Apple no longer has many options.
That leaves only the software -> Sport.
If Apple only implements 3 points here every year that Garmin currently offers, then Garmin will quickly feel it in 2-3 years.
Sports metrics and training plans would be no problem for Apple to implement. If necessary, Apple could make 2-3 takeovers and bring the knowledge in-house.
Apple’s greed and the compulsion to push people towards the more expensive Apple Watch Ultra is extremely annoying and makes me think about it
Only the AWU, for example, offers a night mode and this Precision Start (start only when the GPS signal is there) and that’s just ridiculous.
And will Apple ever tackle the battery life?
What hope is left?
Suunto (Suunto Race S) and Polar (Polar Vantage M3).
I hope both will benefit from Garmin becoming more and more expensive!
At the moment, I would rather continue to use my Garmin FR265 as my daily watch.
I rarely use my AW10. (Waiting for next watchOS releases!)
Maybe buy a reduced FR970 in the future,
Because I would like to have sapphire glass, ECG and offline maps.
The FR570 is a huge disappointment.
And the FR970 is insane in terms of price.
Don’t worry. FR 975 with LTE coming soon. My prediction? $1000.
The problem is not only implementing the features, but doing it right.
2 examples:
– training load. Apple doesn’t use TRIMP-derived like all the world does. They are basing on avg hr * activity time. So, 30 min run with hardcore intervals in the middle gives you ex. 6*30=180. They are not even giving the number, but you have a chart. And somewhat brisk walking that is rated as 3 gives you also 180 after 60 minutes. If you use automatic rating, then 1 hour walking is equal to 30 minutes of hardcore running. This is clearly BS.
And if you decide to override the automatic rating then firstly, you get consistency problems, and secondly, it is more complex that it seems to be (i tried).
– maps. I have AWU, marketed as outdoor watch. Apple has maps and even navigation feature. However, they are not using OSM, but their own maps. It’s ok for city navigation, but forests are basically a green area of nothing. It is useless, and you can’t even import a gpx trace to have a route. Utter garbage.
Obviously, like others said there are 3rd party apps. But firstly, the quality is mediocre (Work Outdoors: UX sucks, no navigation, heck, it doesn’t even know how long your route is unless you put it manually), and secondly, they are often subscription based apps where your health metrics are interpreted by developers, not sports science. I tried some and basing on their metrics, for example, I was overtraining and not training enough at the same time. I prefer my health related advices to be well considered, I trust Apple, I trust Garmin, I do not trust some developer studios that are not widely recognized, well respected and possibly not even having medical expertise onboard.
Ads a great example; even Runna isn’t even capable of basing on hr instead of pace, and when I tried to follow this plan I had to stop twice (in same plan!) because my body couldn’t handle overtraining of this magnitude they were suggesting. Went straight back to Garmin, and it helped me to get back on track.
I am a current 265 owner and am certainly not tempted by the new 570, however, this new 970 might get me to upgrade.
Same here. I hate how well the upselling works with me.
I wonder if Garmin’s target demographic is shifting. I see a lot of posters claiming to be priced out, first of the fenix 8 and now this, yet Garmin has been seeing some strong earnings. Are they targeting the upper middle class more and more, promoting themselves as a luxury brand, and what’s a dirtbag adventurer to do? I’d be curious to hear from someone with inside knowledge.
Ray, with regards to the new running related features, will Garmin publish research on them or even some white papers? When you consider all of the “scores” that have proliferated out of Garmin in the past few years, I’d like to see some published research to back them up.
Nice watch! Great review!
Do you know if the known altimeter issue with Forerunner 955 that have been exposed to salt or chlorinated water (swimming!) has been resolved with this model?
For years I am waiting for direct Dexcom or Libre CGM support in Garnin – Apple Watches already have that. I do realize that we Type 1 Diabetics are a minority but there are a lot of us and I hear non diabetic athletes are sometimes wearing CGM Sensors to keep track of their blood glucose as well. For us this is a killer feature that would make me buy an expensive watch immediately – I would love to go for a run without having to lug a smartphone around.
There are basically no new features in these watches currently that would make me switch from my fenix 6x pro. The new displays that are no longer MIP with corresponding bad battery runtimes are actually a step back in my opinion. Regarding prices and Connect+ I will see. Prices for garmin watches were always outrageous. With a CGM feature added I wouldn’t care. As it is now, someone else can pay them, I am not interested.
If you are anything but a runner, this 970 doesn’t bring too much really new stuff, apart from the evening report. I wouldn’t buy one new, but in a year the first will show up on the second hand market and if I can gett one for less than 500, I’ll give it a try.
Ok, the prize. Mhm: from the hardware side they have added (compared to a 965):
sapphire glass
ECG/Elevate Gen 5 sensor
speaker+mic
flashlight
and from the software/feature side: also a bunch of new things.
I’m going to make myself unpopular: one could consider it (just) appropriate. Of course I would have hoped for a cheaper price! And why can the competition do it so much cheaper…
However, I think the price of the 570 is completely excessive. Garmin isn’t doing itself any favors with this…
Plus don’t forget the inclusion of proper triathlon training plans (given what Ray has shown in the video it now supports even middle-distance events, maybe full distance as well) and triathlon race guidance (finally!) This is another €100-€200 saved on external tools like TriDot.
I’m waiting for the final review but overall the feature gap between my 955 solar and 970 is big enough to begrudgingly justify the purchase. And I can’t stress how I hate the solar PowerGlass on 955 Solar.
I would definitely skip the new HRM though, at least until my HRM-Pro+ breaks down.
Are all these “new to Garmin entirely” features hidden behind that horrendous connect+ paywall?
If so, count me out.
They are clearly not…
What is fish vs fishing activity?
Really interesting that dive functionality didn’t make the cut. I think that’s the biggest divergence from Fenix hardware since the FR935 era. For many of us that’s a huge differentiator and the main reason I upgraded from Epix to F8
I bought an Epix 2 Sapphire Titanium for 399 Euro a few weeks ago. This watch has all the essential features (lightweight, lasting battery, SatIQ, 32 GB memory, perfect screen). Can’t see any reason to pay this really high prices. The new features are gimmicks to me no one really needs.
No quick fit bands?
Same like 955 don’t fit to 22mm quarter-turn quickfit bike mount?
Could you pls test the autolap by timing and finish line features. What does it even do?
Super expensive.
No way to think about it.
Sad that this one tiny thing negatively impacts my user experience so much but does this watch also have the white text on a yellow background on the pool swim rest screen? I got new googles with a slightly different tint and now it’s even harder to read.
I’m with you. I don’t understand why Garmin made this change. In my pool, it’s extremely difficult to see the rest interval. Garmin’s solution: Remove my goggles. That doesn’t really help since I need reading glasses. There’s just not enough contrast to see the interval value.
Yes, does this watch have the same white-text-on-yellow-background for pool swim rests? This is clearly a bug – I get adding yellow border to the screen to show you’re in a Rest interval, but white text on a yellow background is impossible to read through droplets, or even slightly foggy goggles, or if you wear glasses out of the pool, and especially through droplets and slightly foggy goggles AND you need glasses!!! It’s a BUG or it’s by-design but poorly implemented. Anyway, is it that way on this watch too?
I’d be interested in what features are pointless for us that wears the watch only while running, and something like an Apple Watch the rest of the time.
If you’re interested then just take the list of features and make a decision which of those are important for you as a runner and which are not. Clearly there is no need for Ray to do an article on something you can just work out for yourself with the available information. Just saying…
Hey Ray, when you do the FR970 comparison to Fenix 8 could you also include notes on comparing to Enduro 3? These three feel like the ‘big 3’ top ends right now.
Also, apologies if you’ve discussed this in prior posts but does the lack of features in the smaller 570 come down to room for hardware? For those with smaller wrists, especially women, it feels like their options are very limited to get the full hardware/software suite in a smaller package?
Thanks!
Great first look Ray, as usual. Regarding your point on Running Dynamics long term value (interest?) for us common mortals, what I’d really love to see is macro analytics on it, I have hundreds (thousands?) of runs on my 945 and 955, and would love medium/long term insights into how my stride length/vertical oscillation, cadence or GCT are trending over time and correlated with my fitness or Endurance Score…do you see any chance of this happening and how likely would that be behind the Connect+ paywall?
Sacrificing battery life for mic and speaker is a bummer :(
$910 usd to cover every metric I may or may not need. (FR970 and HRM600). The days of throwing on a pair of Brooks Chariots, Dolfins shorts, a Casio and actually beating someone in a race vs Strava are long gone. But man, I love all the metrics. It has shown my steady decline as I age and gives me hope I may improve tomorrow. Today, I don’t think I need a LED torch built into my watch, but maybe next month’s early morning dark run it will come in handy. With the new Step Speed Loss feature, I can show my wife hard proof why I am slowing down and she will let me have that bowl of ice cream.
Yeah, this watch is expensive, and I had just gotten a new Garming HRM a couple weeks ago to replace the old one that died, but I am sure, being the tech geek I am, I will search the couch for coins and buy this. How else will I get faster?
Don’t forget to budget for a pair of $500 super-duper shoes or just pedestrian $250 super shoes to really go after that segment.
Hi Ray,
What are the screen size and resolution/quality diferences between this one and the Fenix 8 51 and 47?
Thanks,
That information is right there on the Garmin website…
Given the price increase, can we ask for a comparison with the enduro 3 as well?
I have searched everywhere but am not able to find anywhere how many connect IQ datafields can be set up in one activity. Can you tell me if that is more than 2?
Did anyone notice the 570 and the 970 are exacly the same size, the same display aso. Could it be they are the same watch, where Garmin did only unlock more software features (including maps) on the 970?
570 only has 8 gigabytes of storage, 970 has 32 to accommodate the maps.
True, the battery is also much smaller on the 570. So, a 970, with a different memory module, smaller battery and software disabled then?
I’ve always been an early adopter of Garmin watches (910XT, 920XT, Fenix 2, Fenix 3, Fenix 5 Plus). However, over time, prices have started to rise significantly for relatively small hardware and software modifications. The price increase has now become substantial, unlike that of other brands that also produce excellent watches (Suunto, Coros, and even Amazfit).
So, while I still appreciate Garmin, for the past 3–4 years I’ve focused on models from 2–3 years ago, which might have a few fewer features but are perfectly suited to my needs. In fact, I’m currently very happy with my FR255 for swimming, road running, and racing (triathlon), my Epix Gen 2 (non-PRO) for trail running, and Edge 530 for cycling. Each of them cost under €300 (except the Epix, which was slightly more). At this point, my next target will be the 965 next year!
Would really like to see Autolap by timing gates and running tolerance backported. I don’t expect them to be, but sure would be nice.
Such a shame the bezel on the black watch is blacked out. Coating over titanium is such a miss and what a great way to make your watch look like any other $5 piece of junk from Dollar General. Is this watch made for triathletes or wanna be donut force.
How are the rapidly escalating prices of these units not a headline. In Australia we’ve gone from $999 (FR965) to $1399 for the new 970. A 40% increase?! Yes there are new features, but it’s getting ridiculous. Are Garmin taking the Sony PS5 approach and padding prices in the rest of the world to cover the Trump levy in what I’d assume is their largest market in the US?
On smartwatch mode the battery dropped to 15 days (from 965), is this with SPO2 reading always on like most smartwatches or does it take a hit when you turn it on?
On previous Garmin’s it was taking a big hit! If it doesn’t on this one 15 days is something i could live with.
Thank you for the hands on! Looking forward to the full review and a possible comparison with F8!
No, SpO2 is not on by default with the FR970.
Cheers!
With the summer/Father’s Day price drop of the Enduro 3 to $799, I’m very interested in whether or not the E3 will get Running Tolerance and Impact Load Factor will come to either the E3 or F8 family. I would think Garmin would want to sell the new HRM strap to the likely large group of E3/F8 owners so it would make sense to carry over most of the new features. Has anyone seen either of those show up in beta software?
“Switched to 1-second recording as the default (finally!!!!)” means that there is no 5 seconds rounding in the current pace? That would be great.
1 second recording has no impact on pace rounding. 1 second vs smart recording only impacts what gets saved in the file and has zero impact on what you see on screen during the activity. Even distance recorded in the activity file won’t be impacted as it’s not just straight line distance from point to point.
That said, 1 second recording as default would be great as the only reason for smart recording is file size. Any activity with a power meter already was ever second as are all activities on the Edge devices.
Ray,
Do you plan to add Forerunner 970, 570 and Vivoactive 6 to the notorious product comparison table?
link to dcrainmaker.com
ah man i hoped for a flat screen. I don’t like this bended screen om the edge…..why do they do that
It looks a great watch.
Pity about the gopping ugly AF neon band. What on earth were they thinking.
Deal crusher for me as I wear the watch for work. (Yeah I have a Fenix 3 I can use for work instead, but I can rarely be assed to charge it up and wear it unless its a special occasion.)
I’ll hang on to my 965 Solar until they release a variant with a black or muted band of some kind thanks.
Might even push me to try an Apple watch whilst I’m waiting.
Before you jump into the Amazon marketplace, it is good to make a price comparison. Amazon became the US-style AliExpress, but with double prices. For example, the HRM Pro Plus: link to geizhals.at
Supporting content creators on YouTube? Lol, very funny…
Idiots at YouTube first created the Subscription metrics. Why should users subscribe if they check the website and see what is new? I check Ray’s web and that’s all I have to do. For the presenters available only on YouTube (e.g., GCN/GTN), users know when a new video is available, because it is coming regularly.
As a second metrics, idiots at YouTube implemented the “watched till the end” parameter.
Who will watch videos till the end if it is interrupted by advertisements?
So, having installed AdBlock, I ended up banned from YouTube.
Idiots at YouTube, you are violating my free decision about what content I will be watching. Even more, you are violating the parents’ right to keep children away from commercial interests.
I won’t uninstall AdBlock, and I refuse to pay for premium. I could be the one and only in this situation, but then, So Long, YouTube, you won’t be missing!
Is my understanding correct that the Forerunner 970 doesn’t support Voice Notes (link to support.garmin.com) even though it would have all the hardware required? Any reason for this? Any chance Garmin will support it soon with a software update? Sometimes I have some good idea that I would like to save as a voice memo for myself during a long run.
Correct. I don’t see it there. I’ll ask if I’m missing something, but by now usually Garmin would have sent over any corrections (I always ask all companies if they spot anything technically inaccurate to let me know), and nothing came through.
Still no quickfit strap, stuck with same old fastening device in all the forerunner watches.
Not stuck at all. While the included strap is not Quickfit, the 9xx FRs have worked with Quickfit straps for several generations.
Hardly the point! The watch, in particular the flagship of that ‘model’, should come with quickfit.
From a business prospective it would reduce sku’s.
Well, it was your point…and incorrect…
Is there a good way to attach the Forerunner 970 to a standard Garmin mount (as used, e.g., for an Edge 840)?
The QuickFit® Quarter-turn Bike Mount (link to garmin.com) isn’t compatible with Forerunner. The Forerunner 970 lists the Bicycle Mount Kit (link to garmin.com) under accessories, but this looks like it attaches to a round handlebar (who still has this?) rather than a standard Garmin mount as many of us have on our road/tri bicycles.
Someone will have to try it as it’s been hit and miss if you can use the Fenix bike mounts with Forerunners. Some work, some don’t. You would have to switch to a Quick Fit band so you can easily remove the band, but I’d recommend that anyway. That’s one of the first things I do with Forerunners so that I can also use velcro bands. My 945lte worked on the 42mm Fenix mount, although a bit snug. Pretty sure the 965 worked on the 47mm Fenix mount, although slightly loose.
Odd that Garmin hasn’t come out with a bike mount specific for the spacing of Forerunner pins as it would also help sell more Quick Fit bands. Being a tri watch, you’d think this would be a priority.
That said, it will also have to be seen how well the display stays on during a ride. One of the biggest issues with the Epix2 on the handlebars was the screen would spend most of the time dimmed so you couldn’t actually see it.
Hello Ray, comparing the FR 970 to the turn-by-turn notification of the 965, is it still the same anoying alarm like or did Garmin change to something less irritating like it is on the Fenix 8?
Garmin gave a lot of money to the republican party in the US. Take that as you will.
As for me, someone who has bought at least every other flagship forerunner since the 305, the prices have gotten out of hand compared to the competition. My FR955 is still working fine and none of the new stuff really grabs me. I would like LTE (I carry a motorola razr flip phone with me that is fairly small for a smartphone but would be nice to not need it). When the time comes I’ll be looking at alternatives.
No comment on the RD running pod. It has disappeared from website even on previous products. Are they still able to connect with both the 570 and 970, or must a person spend for the new strap to get the same info?
No sure what the value would be (I don’t have/use and RD-POD), but Garmin’s CA website (for example) does list both the FR570 and FR970 under “compatible devices” for the RD-POD.
link to garmin.com
Cheers.
(PS I used the CA website, because the RD-POD has been removed entirely from my local AU website)
Still shows the RD pod just fine in the list of pairable sensors on the watch on the FR570/970.
Just my two cents: something that’s really starting to piss me off these days is that as soon as a new model with new features comes out, people immediately start whining about when these new features will be released for, say, the Fenix 8 series etc. New features often come out (later) for older models as well, but the decision lies with Garmin (not the user), and we have no right to control it. It’s like with small children, where another child gets a newer toy, and you just have to have it too (whether you actually need/use it is another matter). Cheers!
Looks quite nice, with some useful upgrades. Price has gone up a bit but is bearable (UK). However, Connect +. Deal breaker for me, at the very least until I can see exactly what Garmin is going to do with it. Also I can’t find any mention of Connect + on the 970 product page, so anyone going straight there might not even know that they may have to cough up another £6.99 a year to get the best out of their already expensive watch. Disingenuous at best.
Actually what is disingenuous is that comment.
Unless something is specifically listed as a Connect+ feature, it is included without subscription. Simple as that.
You mention the speaker functionality goes beyond beeps… Just wondering whether any activity alerts can be set to talk to you, eg tell you you’re out of range and why, eg too fast, rather than using beeps? Also any navigation based speaking alerts?
Do you know if the Enduro 3 and Fenix 8 will be compatible with the HRM 600 and its new running metrics? Very oddly, the list of compatible devices on Garmin’s official website for the HRM 600 does not include either model, though much older models are included.
Strategically it makes no sense for Garmin to limit the market for the HRM 600 to 970 and 570 purchasers. Those are also derivative of the fenix 8 platform anyway. I would be stunned if the fenix 8 range including the enduro, tactix and other specialty SKUs did not get support for these new metrics in the next quarterly update. That has been the pattern: the forerunner 9xx has had exclusive new features which immediately came to the corresponding fenix generation.
Honestly the fenix 8 internal hardware is so similar to the fenix 7 / Epix 2 there seems like no reason that they couldn’t port these metrics to those platforms other than will or segmentation of features to new products. I think that is unlikely but Garmin could do it.
A 25% price hike? Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. It’s just another iteration, just another sports watch. Nothing to see here folks.
“It’s just another iteration, just another sports watch. Nothing to see here folks.”
And yet, you clicked on the link, read the story, and commented. Seems like there was something to see after all.
I was really looking forward to this watch dropping. Then Connect+ happened in March. I think the new features on the FR970 are great and in line with what I was hoping for. I have no interest in LTE or solar.
That being said, I think the price of $650 is a bit of a stretch – $750 is just insulting. Then there is the fact that all new significant feature development and features will be pay-walled in plus subscription. I use an Edge 840 and FR955 with all the sensors, etc. The FR is mostly stable (after 3 years), but the Edge still acts up a LOT. It’s getting harder for me to justify staying on Garmin’s ecosystem. I like the idea of the FR970, but I think I’m one firmware bug away from a Coros PACE Pro.
As I’ve reported about the Forerunner 965 (which I own) compared to my old Epix 2 (which I sold, too heavy for me), the Forerunners I’ve had – even these top-of-the-line ones – seem WAY less responsive to button presses and other navigation actions than the Epix series was (and I’m presuming also the Fenix series). That is, I start some action, and there has been a small delay, or I finish an exercise and it takes several seconds before pressing buttons can do ANYTHING. On the Epix 2, when I finished an exercise, I could immediately navigate around the menus, etc, there was not waiting for some process to complete.
I don’t know if this was due to slower processors, or if Garmin intentionally throttles things in order to get people to upgrade to Epix or Fenix series to get better performance, but it has been a big pain in the butt for me.
Did you notice if the Forerunner 970’s UI is as snappy as that of the Epix 2 or modern Fenix series, without extra delays in processing data, etc? I like the lightness of the Forerunner series (I don’t like a heavy chunk on my wrist while working out), but I want the processing speed and snappy UI of the top-end Multisport devices.
I have never experienced that difference between my Epix Gen2 and FR965 (or previous generations like FR945/Fenix 6).
I venture that it is something specific to your situation or devices.
Could be, but it’s definitely happening; and I didn’t do anything weird settings-wise on the 965 that I can think would be causing it. :-/
Any hope for Garmin adding LTE to the Fenix or Forerunner line?