Last week, the Garmin Forerunner 570 and Forerunner 970 were released, and with that, a slate of ‘new to Garmin’ features. The majority of those new features appeared only on the Forerunner 970. However, a handful (such as the new Evening Report feature) also appeared on the Forerunner 570.
After a bit of poking, I’ve finally got clarification on which existing watches will get these new features, and which ones won’t. To clarify, here’s the specific list of features we’re talking about:
– Running Tolerance feature
– Impact Load Factor
– ‘Autolap by timing gates’ feature
– Suggested Finish line feature
– Projected race time predictor feature
– Step Speed loss feature (requires HRM 600)
– Running Economy feature (requires HRM 600)
– Garmin triathlon coach feature
– Multisport Structured Workouts (from Garmin Connect to watch)
– Improved Ovulation cycle predictions using skim temp
There are a handful of other things already in the existing watch firmware update hopper, such as the Breathing Variations feature, seen on recent Garmin Fenix 8 betas (and going live today), as well as other recent beta features like the Rucking activity profile (been around since February or so). For example, Breathing Variations is going to an absolute ton of devices, including all Fenix 7 & Epic series (Pro & Non-Pro), Vivoactive’s, Venu’s, and more. I’m not including those in this list, since those are already trickling down to watches in a fairly predictable pattern. Instead, it’s all about the bits above, which are totally new to Garmin.
In any case, looking at that list, the long and the short of it is that existing Fenix 8, Enduro 3, and Tactix 8 variants will get those features at some point in the future. With ‘will get’ being more of a soft promise than a hard and fast guarantee. Specifically:
“The current plan is to roll the “new to Garmin” software features that announced with Forerunner 570 and 970 into the Fenix 8 series, Enduro 3 and Tactix 8 in future software releases. We cannot comment on the exact timing or guarantee that all features will make it into these updates.”
Said differently (and confirmed), there are no plans for any of these newly listed features to trickle down into the Forerunner 265, 965, Fenix 7 Pro, or Epix Pro series. Also clearly noted, as with all software development, things can and do change. Generally speaking, when Garmin says a feature is coming to other watches, 95% of the time it comes true. There are certainly contrary examples over the last decade, but frankly, they’re few and far between.
This is actually relatively similar to what we’ve seen in the past, at least in terms of timing. With the Garmin quarterly firmware release having started to trickle out in the last few days, that typically means the next cycle of public Fenix 8 betas is usually 2-4 weeks away (which would then culminate sometime in likely early-mid August with a production release, or slightly later if need be for a variety of reasons). As usual, the initial public beta may not include all the features that might end up in the final production version later (and vice versa, features could disappear).
In this case, with the Forerunner 970 clearly sharing most of the same new user interface base as the Fenix 8, it’s going to make that process much faster than it might otherwise have been.
Still, this will no doubt upset Fenix 7/Epix Pro users, or even Forerunner 965 users. From 2020-2023, Garmin actually got really good about updating existing devices (especially on the watch side, setting aside Venu of course). The Edge team still continues to do a very good job at porting features back as well. But with the release of the Fenix 8, it’s clear things have changed. Not just in terms of pricing upwards, but Garmin’s thinking around updating older watches. They’ve seemingly returned to the ‘old Garmin’ of the 2010s, that forced new watches if you wanted new features.
On one hand, you’ve got companies like Apple offering watch updates for many years back, but that’s also not everyone. Polar, for example, is pretty heavily limiting things to current-gen watches. Suunto & COROS split the difference a bit, with Suunto updating everything in the current family of devices, while COROS will tend to extend one generation back, depending on hardware constraints. Google (with an albeit rather limited history to look at) is mostly updating older devices too. And, Samsung splits the difference, with updating some older watches with new WearOS features, but not necessarily new Samsung features.
Either way, of the bigger companies, Garmin is definitely becoming the most strict in terms of those software feature updates. At the same time, they’re also adding *far* more features in their updates than any of the companies I just noted (heck, probably adding more software update features than all of those companies combined). Apple, for example, does one big update each year in September. COROS used to do more frequent updates than most, but in the last 1-2 years, the update cadence and depth have dramatically decreased from the 2022ish era. That’s common as companies mature.
Anyways, the reason all this might matter is the current Fenix 8 sales, which bring the price of the Fenix 8 down to $799, versus the $749 of the Forerunner 970. In that scenario, assuming form factor/style/size isn’t a factor, it’s a no-brainer to go with the more full-featured Fenix 8, especially assuming it’ll get the features listed above.
Of those features listed above, having used them on the Forerunner 970, I’d say the two most real-world useful ones are the Running Tolerance/Impact Load Feature (kinda a combo-dish), and the Evening Report feature. Some of the others are still interesting, especially the dynamic triathlon plans for triathletes. But beyond that, I find most are either a bit too geeky, or a bit too complicated to setup/use, for most people.
Anyways, hope this helps folks trying to figure out whether to pick up one of the Fenix 8 units on sale, or the Forerunner 970. Or, just giving up and still using your Forerunner 305 that continues to work just fine, now 19 years later.
With that – thanks for reading!
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As a 965 owner I was hoping for the new metrics to arrive there as well, since I won’t upgrade the watch but could consider buying a 600, but Garmin lost a sale of that one then ;-)
me too…
Fenix 7 user here and I find myself in the same place. Would gladly buy a HRM 600 if I would get the new metrics.
Yes, I would have bought a HRM600 strap if the new metrics was backported to my Fenix 7Pro.
And me.
Add me to the list. I was actually intrigued by the HRM 600 but if the new features won’t come to the 965 I certainly won’t buy it.
Yeah. Garmin’s greedy (and unsuccesful) attempt to push me into buying a Fenix 8 cost them a HRM 600 sale. For no reason. I already wasn’t going to buy a Fenix 8, but now I’m also not buying a HRM 600 (which I otherwise probably would have bought, but now have no reason to)
Epix Gen 2, but ditto. No need to get the new HRM then.
Same, will not replace my HRM+ or buy another one if I miss out on the metrics, what’s the point then.
As a 955 owner I felt burned that the 965 came out just 9 months later, I still think it should’ve been called 955 OLED given that it was functionally the same device other than the screen. And now the 965 is getting burned. Come on Garmin. Do better. Said as the owner of 6 Garmin & 4 straps.
I agree. I was furious when the OLED update came out. I’m furious now that I would have to spend a weeks worth of net income to get the Running Tolerance feature. Its super easy to implement on a technical level, but Garmin went 100% Boeing on this one.
Thanks for the clarification! Does that mean, that going forward the HRM 600 will replace the HRM pro + as a chest strap that also works during swimming, but the new features will not be usable with a Fenix 7 pro? Do you know, whether there will be a cheaper alternative suitable for triathlon? Thanks again!
This will be the case unless they come to their senses.
The HRM600 is already priced very high making hard to justify even for those with Fenix 8 series, but for anyone else I can’t see any reason to buy the HRM600 over the HRM pro. No one is upgrading their watch just to gain access to the HRM600 features.
There is a HRM200 and a HRM600. So there is space for a HRM400 in between
Hmm, compatibility of new features on some companion hardware release had occasionally been the motivator for unexpected backports in the past. Could well be a “we might look into it if/when we have spare capacity” situation, with real money waiting to be spent on HRM 600.
Could you please clarify what is Breathing Variations that will trickle down to Fenix 7? I could’t find that in the review of 970.
I think so. I have it on my 165
The breathing variations on my 965 Beta. Not sure what they are good for.
link to support.garmin.com
Requires Pulse Ox sensor to be enabled (Sleep Mode or All-Day Mode – does not work if disabled).
Thanks for the update! Any word on smart-wake? This feature is not included in the new Forerunners?
Interestingly enough, Garmin Connect app on my phone offered me to add a triathlon to the calendar this morning despite owning a 955. I kinda expected that at least triathlon plans and structured workouts would trickle down, but at the same time it’s understandable that Garmin wants to sell the new devices.
Same here :)
In the Coach glance or where?
Mine was just at the top when I opened the app. I don’t have any fancy coaching or adds to the watch.
It is in the Event Calendar/My Next Race. There are currently NO Garmin Coach triathlon plans. Unclear whether/how a triathlon in the calendar affects the Daily Suggested Workouts.
Garmin determined to change its relationship with its customer base it seems, firstly the premium idea and now they drop evolution updates for watches that are still on sale. Really the reasons to stay loyal to Garmin as a brand are being erased
Agreed, I’m.usimg an Epix Pro and although I love the watch, unless Garmin change their sales tactics I’ll likely be looking at other options when the Epix Pro is past its used by date. I’ve had Garmins since the FR10 with HRM and footpod combo and have skipped a series up until I switched to the Fenix 6pro now the Epix Pro. It’s been a great run but like the Banks and insurance companies, I’ll be shopping around as clearly my loyalty is no longer seen to add any value to Garmins goals.
The positive is I really don’t need a new chest strap so now I have now itch for new features to suck me in.
Completely agree. I had the Fenix 6, Epix and then the Epix Pro 2 and when Garmin announced they wouldn’t be bringing any new feature updates to the Epix Pro 2 even though it was marketed as a flagship device I decided to vote with my feet and jump ship. When they brought subscriptions that reinforced my choice. And this validates my choice even more.
I wonder how many people Garmin employs only to keep track of which feature goes to which watch, it must be hard to keep track of this even for them internally haha.
As FR965 owner, I like the idea of a new watch (mainly for flashlight feature, which obviously can’t be updated over the air haha), but realistically a) it has already more features I need b) new metrics are cool, but it’s not like you go from average runner (me) to Kipchoge thanks to them.
I guess there are at least a sub-department in Garmin that have employees with titles like sportprofile manager, sportprofile strategist, sportprofile architect and so on :-D
The way divisions are set up at Garmin in Olathe (Kansas City) they might even have multiple people basically doing the same “feature tracking” job for different watches.
If their HR is anything like their SKU management, they probably have people with completely different role titles in completely separate departments that do almost exactly the same jobs but for one or two very minor things.
As a past Garmin employee working in Product Management, keeping track of what features were available across devices was an impossible task. Made worse by the fact that we didn’t even know ourselves, hence Ray has had so much difficulty above getting the information for his article.
You’d be surprised by how many technical sheets // materials are made purely last minute to show to Ray
“You’d be surprised by how many technical sheets // materials are made purely last minute to show to Ray”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. As a pretty die-hard Garmin user for around 15 years, and someone that has worked in product management, it has really seemed like Garmin’s product management isn’t all that great. I mean, clearly they’ve done SOMETHING right over the years, as they took over this niche market entirely, but there are some things that I run in to that are simply baffling. Like features that seem like nobody at Garmin has actually used and that have had very active threads complaining about them on the Garmin forums for a decade without ever being touched.
I think Garmin got themselves a bit of a monopoly and have sat on it a bit. You describing dysfunction internally there probably isn’t surprising to the long-time customers. We can see it. When the right competitor gets their act together, Garmin might find their lunch get completely eaten by them. But the breadth of Garmin’s health product-line is pretty astounding.
Let’s hope we (Fenix 8 users) get the UI update of the 970/570. Fenix UI looks very dated. Barely anything has changed since Fenix 6, 6 years ago.
Thank you for the clarification Ray, precise as everytime !
I’m wondering how Garmin will playout the new “Smart Wake alarms” feature they interduced with the Vivoactive 6
Has the Forerunner 970 already got it, will the Fenix 8 get it or will it stay an Vivoactive 6 exclusive one ?
With Garmin you never know…
I am guessing that means no updates for the HRM Pro Plus as well?
I wonder if they could offer some of these trickle down updates as part of a sub, depending on hardware compatibility? Maybe folk would be happy to pay for Connect + and receive some of these new features, as opposed to buying a new watch? The majority will upgrade eventually, but in the meantime you could have the latest features and Garmin can have it’s £80 – £90 a year.
That’s my recent thought, that they could possibly get me on Connect+ if they gave my Epix Pro extended updates. Apple and Google clearly understand software better. From Ray’s reviews it sounds like Garmin’s code bases are different across devices and harder to maintain. But expanding coaching options seems a simple addition, as does something like Evening Report.
I was just thinking the same thing. I think this would be a great idea – high margin, software revenue stream for them, happy-ish customers for those who value the upgrades.
Garmin is losing me as a customer. Bought an Epix pro sapphire titanium a couple of weeks ago. Fenix 8 and newer watches is not an option for me as they have a microphone which keeps me from using it at work. When you add the circus around Garmin connect+ less than 6 months after bashing Strava and other competitors for doing the exact same thing, and now this treatment of watches not even former gen, and we have ourselves a prime example of things thats going to come back and bite Garmin in it’s own ***.
We are 5 people in the family who all are using Garmin products (watches, HRM, pods, bikecomputers) but as of now I’m going with the decision to replace those products with other brands as they are reaching end of life.
So my 18 month old watch is now a dud which will quickly become obsolete? Even quicker as it’ll be the last Garmin I’ll buy. People don’t update their watch every 2 years. Google have the right idea and I buy a Pixel for this reason. Bye bye Garmin.
In which way is it a dud and obsolete? Nothing has changed with this, your device still does everything and has all the functions (a few more actually) now as it had when you bought it.
Not quite. When you buy a watch you expect to get future updates. Would you still have bought your iPhone if you knew no new features or optimizations were coming? Would you have spent $1300 on that iPhone? The average consumer would 1) expect new features 2) not pay full price for obsolete products.
I’m not sure this is true. I highly doubt people buy phones in anticipation of some future development. Maybe security fixes. Likewise, when most ‘average consumers’ (aka non-DCR readers) buy a sports device, they are buying the functions they need today, not hopes and prayers for some future development.
“People don’t update their watch every 2 years”
Of course they do – maybe not all, but many do. I generally do (fenix 3, 935, 945, 955 then Enduro 3. All sold to part fund the next).
Feature roll-down is nice, but I buy the watch for what it can do on the day of release. I dont expect Garmin to provide full feature roll-down for years. I can see why they might until a new watch is released, but anything after that is even more of a bonus.
I’m confused by your comment. To be clear there’s absolutely nothing wrong eith buying any particular thing when it’s launched. But the examples you gave are a bit confusing. Minus the Fenix 3, all of the watches you mentioned essentially do the same thing. In others words your last watch did exactly the same thing that your new one will do. It would make more sense to say that the newer watch does “the same thing,” but better. Some people may even question what I’m saying as they may have had issues with hardware and software with the newer devices and make them miss the older ones. I wish people would be more honest and just say they wanted something new…
It’s almost like they haven’t even thought about it’s customer base, when launching a new product.
I’ve long watched the Apple Watch develop, and I think this year it is time to make the leap, surf the learning wave, and accept a couple of limitations.
Having a watch, that isn’t kept up to date, within 9 months of launch, is unacceptable, and blatant profiteering, from a company, that doesn’t seem to engage with its customers.
That’s it for me, a f965 user. Garmin lost me as a customer.
I’m still super happy with my 965. It just works. I’ll hang onto it as many years as it keeps working. Charge it once every 10 days or so.
I’m still happy with my Forerunner 955 Solar! Some people just won’t understand what your saying. They have no concept of being thankful for something that they have and throw tantrums when something new comes out that they don’t have. What not just wait until the devices become more affordable. They always do! The FR955/965 are incredible watches. I don’t understand the fuss. I also wouldn’t jump on the “I’m leaving Garmin” bandwagon since their competitors will be the same thing in regards to pricing very soon…just watch.
Well, I have been frustrated with features locked to new hardware for some time. This one will make me jump ship. I have a 965 and expected triathlon coaching to go to mod watches. I don’t care about any of the other stuff, coaching is not dependent on new hardware. That is greed. Done. After a lifetime of being a Garmin supporter I will sell this watch and move to Apple. Don’t come at me on features and battery life. I know. At least their ecosystem and updates roll down to virtually every watch.
Step Speed Loss and Running Economy are hardware locked to the new HRM 600. They’re hurting their own sales of they don’t open up this metrics to more watches.
Not just locked to the HRM600. You also need a new watch. Currently only the FR970 combined with the HRM600 will give you those new features. Plans to release to Fenix 8 series at best.
✓ Paywalled features in Garmin Connect
✓ Extended (!) Running Dynamics only available with a €170 (!) HR monitor
✓ €750 price tag
✓ Already obsolete feature-wise in 11 months/1-2 years, when the 971/975/980 comes out
Sounds like a good deal!
I really hope the absurdity of all this causes a competitor to step up and fill the gap that Garmin occupied a few years ago.
Completely agree. And still far from being a smart watch.
As a dedicated runner and more in more in Apple ecosystem, I just lost another reason for staying with Garmin for the next watch.
Love my 965 but also see how unreliable it can get.
Well Garmin good luck…
I think Ray has been saying this for a while, Garmin’s model is just messed up.
They would have been better off just allowing people to pay a fee for the new features rather than having to replace an 800$ watch to get triathlon mode or something. Most people will upgrade every 3-5 years to get the advances in hardware, gen 5 sensor, etc. Garmin should have focused on keeping a loyal customer base even if its costs them a little in the profit base. As a company, would you rather have a continuous consistence stream of revenue or have these quarterly earnings reports that jump up and down? I think that is obvious, with the move to subscription based products by just about everyone.
So now, as you see by the comments, people are going to look at different products. I would have never thought of buying an apple watch, hate the battery life, hate the square face. But, given the price/performance trade off that is something I am going to consider going forward.
Apple is a 3 trillion dollar company. Garmin is a 40 billion dollar company. If apple gets serious in the sports sector, which it looks like it is, Garmin is in trouble especially with alienating their core customer base.
maybe i am wrong.
Yes, you’re wrong. A lot of new features are hardware and processor speed dependent so no it isn’t that easy to port back. People think that Garmin is now doing
less back deliberately but it’s more likely IMHO to do with intergenerational differences and the type of feature. E.g. Garmin coach was easy to port back because it had little hardware dependency. ECG less so. They will be many more examples were the challenges aren’t always obvious to consumers.
People should always look at different products. It’s a gadget, not a marriage.
I originally thought the same as you re relative financial strength but according to latest numbers, Garmin’s ultra niche strategy sends to be beating Apple’s one-size-fits-all in sport at least.
> The Edge team still continues to do a very good job at porting features back as well. But with the release of the Fenix 8, it’s clear things have changed.
The Edge provided some update for the 30 series. But the failed with Bluetooth File Sharing
1. Feature was missing initially from 40 series
2. Added feature back with an update
3. Feature is incompatible to 30 series. File sharing between devices of this generations is not possible.
They completely ignore compatibility and user base as strength to build up on. What I should do now?
* Buying a 40 series devices means I cannot share GPX files with my group peers (all on 530/580/1030)
* Buying a 30 series devices. It has better screen to body ratio. I can share files. But not with riders which purchased a newer device of 40 series.
When I’ve time I will write a friendly request Garmin to port the new Bluetooth File Sharing back to the 30 series. Currently neither a Garmin 840 nor and Garmin 530 will even tell you, that the feature is incompatible. Just nothing happens, when you try to share a GPX.
PS: That feature is important in “tense” situations. And doesn’t required a long line of dependencies (modern Smartphone, Garmin Connect App, Garmin Connect Account, Cell Phone Coverage and finally the Garmin Connect Servers). File Sharing requires holding a Edge in the hand :)
I agree this the above comments, that as a 965 user, disappointed by certain features not being added. How can brick workout not be added to a $600 watch that was built to be a triathlon watch. I fully recognize many of these features are wants and very few are needs. Phone manufacturers have been increasing the price of their products over the years where $1k phones are normal, but they also come with 5-7 years of support and new features. I think that Garmin becoming more consistent with their updates would go a long way. I think updating, going back 1 generation, would be reasonable if the hardware allows. Going off a 2 year model cycle, that would give users 4 years of having the latest updates. For watches that are $550-800+, this seems reasonable.
I can’t wait to see how the Unawatch performs, before I’m tired of the marketing direction watches manufacturers are taking, especially Garmin.
I really don’t want to keep giving my money to Garmin after my watch “expires”, which apparently is going to be sooner than expected.
To be honest I blame consumers for where we are right now in regards to pricing and Garmin’s new approach to sales and marketing. The way a business functions is usually directly related to how they know consumers will respond. 1st (which is where we are now), there’s the initial outrage and threats such as “I’m done with Garmin.” This happens with every release and last for about a week…maybe less. When the outrage ends all of the same people who were outraged suddenly cave in because of FOMO or because they convince themselves they “need” whatever feature will not trickle down to their older device. Some of it I believe is psychological and the need to know their device is capable of doing something even if they never plan to use it. It’s the “latest and greatest” mentality. To be clear, I understand the frustration. However it’s just taken to far by some people. The FR955/965 are two of the best running watches available…Period. And that will be true even if they don’t ad any additional features. The same is true for the HRM pro/plus. If the HRM600 doesn’t ad value and you need a new HRM and feel you have to have the latest HRM, why not get the HRM200? Who cares if it doesn’t have some of the 600 features that you’ll never use. Like I said, large business like Garmin understand consumer behavior. They know this is how consumers react to changes which translates to more money. The theatrics that we all see from the online outdoor community when Garmin releases a new device is truly incredible. Lol there’s already rumors of an updated Fenix 8 and there’s just something incomplete about the latest FR970/570. This is all by design. Trust me, not everyone at Garmin is interested in outdoor activities and nor are they interested in you. They’re interested in making money. After all, is that the primary purpose of business?
hehe yes I too am thinking all this posturing and complaining by the Garmin masses will likely die down over time and things will return to something close to normal at some point. Granted, I’m sure there will be some % of the base (large %? Small? Something in between?) that will hop over to Coros or AmazFit or Apple Watch, only to realize the grass is in fact NOT greener over there, and come back to Garmin at some point. Of course there will be some who leave forever and that’s fine. We all are free to make our own consumer decisions with our wallets – time will tell how Garmin’s strategies of late will work out….or not.
I’m betting all these “I’m mad at Garmin; I’m leaving on the next bus” comments won’t end up fully happening the way so many are saying. Or they might – we’ll see….
I’ll also add that my now 3+ years old Epix Gen 2 (non-Pro) got the breathing variations function today, so – I’m happy. And it’s been getting constant beta build updates as well.
Woo-hoo!
Yeah, they know what they’re doing. I’m just a humble runner happy with my 255 and I don’t care about bright curved displays (that can’t stay on), microphones, or any of Garmin’s recent nonsense but it’s clear I’ll always be in the minority when compared to the masses that just must have the new shiny. From a business perspective they’re absolutely doing the right thing.
perfeito, essa necessidade criada na cabeça das pessoas de querer um recurso novo que nem impacta na performance nem na melhoria de nada do seu treino , e que no máximo você olha uma semana e nunca mais ver, qual o doido aqui que fica olhando como esta sua flutuação com o solo e etc, e todas as dinâmicas de corrida a cada corrida que faz? se controlem.
An excellent article. I wonder if Garmin has considered an “update” fee for something like this. I mean there is just no way I’d ditch my 965 for these updates and will likely finish my time here with the watch just the way I purchased it. I’m 78. I understand the need to make money for any company, but for the limited additions to my watch investment, Garmin continues to have my contempt and is another company that, for me, falls into the low category of “money grubber”. But, again, thank you for an excellent article.
I definitely agree, but like I said, the FR965 is (and will continue to be) and amazing watch for another few years. The FR945 is still an amazing watch and that released a while ago. Heck there’s people using the FR935. It’s really a mindset thing. The only reason I upgraded my FR945 to 955 was because Garmin was unable to replace my 945 and offered the 955 for free. These watches are incredible as is! In fact I’d argue that if a stable firmware is released please leave it alone. I personally have no problems with anyone who wants the latest tech. My problem is people who confuse their “wants” with their “needs.” It drives me nuts. We (as in consumers) create money grubbing business because we drive demand. These businesses are only taking advantage of the market and will continue to do so until they cannot. So given the constant “gotta have” behavior that people display now days, we might as well buckle in and get used to this type of stuff from these kind of businesses because buys will continue to “need” it.
Hi Ray, as someone who is not a runner, but enjoys the outdoors and who mostly cycles, I’m not really tempted by the features of the 970. I am keen on the v5 HRM. I can get the Epix Pro for a pretty decent price. Coming from a 955 would I be making a mistake going to the Epix Pro rather than the 970? I usually cycle my watch every two years. Thanks.
I went from the 955 to the Epix pro titanium sapphire 47mm. I miss some features from the 955 that have somehow disappeared from the epix (countdown timer is the most missed), and the epix weight is a problem when running and doing sprints because it bounces around a lot. If you go the other way I can guarantee that you will miss the screen, but the battery lasts a bit longer which might be an acceptable trade for you. I mostly walk/hike, run, lift weights, and do SW/MMA. The display and rough image of the Epix is mainly what made me do the switch due to the hiking part (being dropped off in the unknown and try to get back to civilisation within 8 hours is easier with better maps). There are some (or even many) differences in the UI which will take some time getting used to (mainly when strengthtraining and following set plans) for example when doing intervals or strength workouts, the screen keeps resetting back to the first page on the Epix which is very annoying, on the 955 it stayed on the screen you choose (yes, auto scroll is off, no need to comment on this). And as mentioned before, the 955 has a 5 seconds countdown timer before the next set or interval starts, a function I miss very much on the Epix (hopefully the will restore it some day).
Hi Ray, as someone who is not a runner, but enjoys the outdoors and who mostly cycles, I’m not really tempted by the features of the 970. I am keen on the v5 HRM. I can get the Epix Pro for a pretty decent price. Coming from a 955 would I be making a mistake going to the Epix Pro rather than the 970? I usually cycle my watch every two years. Thanks.
(just to say, I don’t really expect Ray (a busy guy) to personally answer my very specific question. I welcome thoughts from others too (and yes I accidentally double-tapped on the original post, sorry!).
I’m not ray, but I’ll try:
ELV5 vs EL4: how well does EL4 work for you on your 955? for me (955 -> Fenix 8), EL5 is better but not perfect. I have less instances of wonky drops in HR but they still exists (used to be 1 out of 3-4 runs ,now maybe 1 out of 10-15 runs).
Epix Pro vs 970: the 970 has a bigger screen and is lighter, the Epix Pro will have more more premium feel/build. I’ve gotten used to the weight difference with the F8 vs 955, and went AMOLED because I wanted the larger (1.4″ vs 1.3″) screen for my old eyes.
as pessoas tem a necessidade de ter essas novas métricas que em nada muda a dinâmica do treino ou da sua saúde, muitas vezes olham na primeira semana e depois nao mais. O mercado cria as coisas e a próprias pessoas geram a necessidade, calma meu povo, prestem atenção !!
Advice for Garmin: People don’t like it when their new $550 watch becomes outdated within weeks. Pre-announce new products and guarantee major updates for 3-4 years after discontinuation. This costs next to nothing to implement but adds tremendous value.
Advice for Garmin users: Garmin doesn’t pre-announce new products and going forward won’t update older models. This should cause you to discount all Garmins going forward. The 965, Epix, and Fenix 7 should now be valued at sub-$400. The Fenix 8 should be valued at sub-$600. Remember, this also means that your Garmins will have lower resale value.
How about the new Mobility sport profile that was announced with Garmin 970, do you think that would trickle down to the FR 965?
Shocked that the 1100 epix pro is not getting these mostly software features.
Oh well.
I think Garmin’s biggest problem is their spaghetti code “from agile development”
How do you get purple spaghetti to work on a green spaghetti watch? They probably spend hours and hours on trying to get code base compatible – and then someone shouts “we want neon spaghetti support” and then the agile developers drop everything – to work on the “neon” version. They then do an agile sprint – and nothing works on purple and green spaghetti any longer.
Garmin has lost me completely. InReach put away – marine chartplotters / GPS put away (long ago) – and now the watches.
I have Epix Pro – with extra purchased marine maps installed.
But that is my last Garmin Watch.
What with this and the Connect+ business, Garmin are slowly losing my customer loyalty. A bit crazy when there are so many other competitive produce nowadays.
These watch upgrades are already a joke. Increase the price beyond reasonable limits, put in some very niche software features no will use and then stop past support.
How about they innovate on the hardware front as that’s where all their money comes from. My 965 is just fine for everything and the 970 isnt worth the upgrade. Garmin has resulted to just increasing pricing to make up for their lack of innovation.
You’re 100% correct! Also let’s not forget that the 965 isn’t a real update from the 955. All they did was change the display and the appearance of the UI. It’s literally the same watch. That’s why I’m baffled that the 955 isn’t even being discussed anymore. The madness began when they started the AMOLED crap. Innovation is good thing, but sometimes it’s taken to far and begins to have no lasting purpose. And to support this point, look no further than the decrease in battery life for the new 970.
The Marq Damascus Steel was released this year, it costs $3100 and it’s already obsolete. Old hr sensor, old UI and won’t receive feature updates.
I know people get the Marq mainly for the looks and style, but they aren’t dumb. They also want the best sports watch they can buy and a premium experience.
Hi Juan, no offense, but if all it takes is for Garmin to release a new watch with several new (and questionable) features, and it causes you to doubt whether or not your device is “premium,” you may want to stop and consider if what your wearing was ever premium in the first place and if it was ever worth the money. Considering nobody from Garmin threatened you or forced anyone to pay $3000, the blame is 100% at the feet of the buyer. It’s incredible how people suddenly need these features that didn’t exist a week ago to feel “premium.” I’ll go ahead and assume when they release the next one that’s $4000 some of you will be the first in line to get that premium feel again. 🤷🏽
I have a 2 year old Marq and can’t agree with you. Its my second Marq. I’ve got a great watch that serves me very well and looks cool too. Not everybody needs the latest gizmos and it’s had plenty of updates. Also if somebody thinks £3000 is a lot to pay for a watch then maybe the premium ends of the market isn’t for them.
The garmin coach triathlon feature would be nice to have on the 965
With respect, you may want to re-read my post and the post that I wrote that proceeded the one you responded to. If you understood what I said, you’d see that I made no complaints or critiques about price. I have no beef with Garmin or any similar business…unless their products suck which is not the case with Garmin. However I do take issue with consumers who say, “…I paid $3000 (or any large amount of money) for my watch so I should be getting the latest features!” To be clear I do agree with that sentiment. However nobody forced anyone to pay any amount of money for their device. In the grand scheme of things Garmin doesn’t owe anyone anything in particular and neither with they give it because they know consumers pay anything to feel “premium,” which includes paying another high price tag because they have to have the latest and greatest thing. Perhaps the real problem is greed and an inability to be content with the things that are ordinary. Again there’s nothing wrong with spending your hard earned money. Heck, buy what you want! But in regards to the current outrage, is the problem truly “last years model,” or is it a problem with people’s mindsets? Obviously I believe it’s the latter.
Fenix 7 user and honestly don’t care about new features. The watch was feature complete to me whem I bought it two years ago. What I do care about are core features of the watch, eg battery life, HR recording, Bluetooth music, map display. Ironically, this kind of locks me to the ancient firmware 15.77 since Garmin somehow managed to mess one or more of the core features in every release since.
“But with the release of the Fenix 8, it’s clear things have changed. Not just in terms of pricing upwards, but Garmin’s thinking around updating older watches.”
Aside from possibly incompatible hardware on older models, I suspect this has something to do with the “great” F8 UI and is therefore limited to those devices. Or Garmin had something completely different in mind—it’s Garmin, after all.
What about the MARQ? When the 1st Gen came out Garmin put evey feature on to it and added new features as standard. You owned a MARQ then you got everything. But now with the Gen 2 the MARQ often doesn’t even appear in product lists for features and is often overlooked. The commitment by Garmin to MARQ owners has eroded away of late.
You and Des touched on it in the latest podcast, but the lack of back porting features has really annoyed me with Garmin.
I’ve been an avid Garmin user for years. First device was the Edge 500.
I’ve had the Vivofit, Forerunner 910XT, Forerunner 25, Edge 520, Vivoactive 3, 935, Fenix 6 Pro plus Vector 3’s and plethora of sensors including HRM-Pro.
I’m now an Apple Watch Ultra 2 user and won’t be going back to Garmin.
Spending £600 on a watch for it to be “out of date” a generation later just didn’t cut it with me.
I know Apple devices will get updates going forwards.
Hi Ray!
Can you gick out on the feature of the backward compatibility of the new Garmin Connect features like triathlon coach and weight training plan, if it will give access to older watches, like Fenix 7 and Garmin 965 and earlier?
I wonder if they can sell, that just as a Garmin connect+ feature rather than, buy a whole new watch.
If they’d guaranteed 2 years of feature updates (from release date) on the 970, plus the possibility of future updates via a sub (subject to hardware compatibility) I’d have bought the 970 by now.
My 955 has done well on the update front but it seems Garmin are heading in a different direction now. I could swallow the price increase for a new watch but not in the current climate of uncertainty around future support.
So I agree that it would be good, and definitely push me towards coughing up for a new watch, if they offered to extend feature support via a sub. But I’m not so sure this is what Garmin have in mind, I think it’s more likely to be limited to Connect App features and not specific device software.
Ridiculous!
My 965 is less than a year old and now they are dumping them for $499 link to garmin.com
Does the FR 970 have a better ui than the fenix 8? Or is the fenix 8 just better in every way?
I think it is time to stop bashing Garmin for not porting all features to older watches. Like mentioned in the article there are many features added after initial launch and one thing one keeps forgetting: All watches that keep getting all the new features become unusable after a number of years effectively turning those devices into e-waste.
Like with every product you will get a major overhaul of the software every x-number of years, if I remember correctly this is the case between 7 pro and 8, which means there will be less new features backported.
Making sure the watches are able to run the software in a decent way may reduce the amount of updates, but also makes sure you can use the watch until the hardware fails. My fenix 5 plus for example get regular usage and I also know users with a vivoactive 3 and other older models.
As someone who only recently got a 965 (for the brighter and slightly bigger screen mainly) over my 955… I’m glad I’d not bothered waiting any.longer for the 970.
These latest mods, if the trickle down, make no difference to me.
I’d prefer Garmin spent the time making the software less bug-filled rather than releasing more features that inevitably introduce further bugs.
Imagine a car manufacturer adding more features to the infotainment system… whilst not sorting out the wheels falling off.
I don’t see many bugs in my watch software. Do you have a few specific examples?
As a 955 Solar user I was a bit upset when 965 was released only 9 months later but then Garmin kept the 955 updates coming until now.
I’m decided for an upgrade but as a runner I am still trying to decide between the Fēnix 8 and the 970. The main advantage I see on the Fēnix is the battery but it is also tad heavier. On the other hand e the 970 has the sapphire glass (Fēnix 8 has but only in $100+ more expensive models).
As a Mk3i owner I really don’t care on the diving features.
I’m really not sure which one I will go for…
Except Breathing Variations will go only to x65, and won’t land on a not-so-oldish 955. I didn’t expect much, but still disappointed.
Garmin has released a document stating that it will come to the 255/955 – link to reddit.com
Garmin – Sierra has since posted on the Garmin 955 forum that it isn’t coming to the 955, only the X65 series.
I ran 30KM with FR970 and HRM600 last weekend
I can see my existing running dynamics data, but SSL is not showing (both on the watch face indicator while active and in Garmin Connect)
Is my HRM600 defective? Is this a bug? Or does SSL require a lot of running data to be accumulated?
Which has better heart sensor tech the 970 or the fenix?
Literally identical sensor tech.
However, from a functional standpoint, generally speaking the lighter the watch, the more accurate it’ll be, since weight in a watch tends to flop around on your wrist. Now, if you wear the heavier Fenix more snugly, you’ll get the same accuracy in most cases, but most people…umm…don’t do that.
agree with Ray’s assessment. the Fenix 8 can give excellent HR data if it’s snug enough. I find it’s easier to get a good snugness (without cutting of circulation) using a nylon strap like the Ultrafit.
I came from a 955 (Elevate 4) to a the Fenix 8 (Elevate 5) and was concerned initially about the weight both for OHR accuracy and sleeping. I’ve for the most part gotten used to the feel of a heavier watch (doesn’t bother me sleeping by every now and then while working at a desk, I for whatever reason, notice it) while “living.”
while running/hiking/swimming/cyclling the weight is not something I notice and I’ve gotten overall better data with the Fenix 8 than my FR955. it’s not perfect, but more reliable. where as I would get wonky HR (low by about 10-15 bpm) at some point in the run and have it sustained for the remainder (eg, miles 5-8), if such a wonkiness occurs, it usually corrects itself on the Fenix 8 after a few minutes. only once did I have this depressed heart rate issue last for the last 2 miles of my run.
I got the 570 based on being an advanced running watch. The tolerance and impact features did not land on the watch. Are there any plans to have this two features move to the 570 ?
No, I wouldn’t expect that at all unfortunately. Honestly, I think it’s kinda stupid, since the whole point of a more expensive FR is to cater to the more expensive running crowd, especially since it requires the HRM 600 purchase for the Running Economy features. Imho, both the Running Economy/StepSpeedLoss and Running Tolerance/Impact features should absolutely be on a $550 mapless running-focused watch. More as a ‘sorry we didn’t give you maps on this watch’ gift than anything else.
So what? More numbers to look at? Why should I upgrade from a 955? Its running perfectly and already has ALL you need…
just another “new” watch to milk the market.
If you’re happy with your FR955, go forth, nobody is stopping you.
But there’s a lot of people that wanted a flashlight for example, wanted ECG for medical reasons, or any of the other non-metric features.