As I wrap up my Samsung Galaxy Watch Ultra review, and a few other review things in the hopper for this week, here’s two quick technical tidbits I thought were interesting. Some geekery here, but, such is this site.
Stats on Zwifter Levels
Zwift Insider reported on some interesting stats, from Zwift employee James Bailey, in their recent podcast. It’s a good discussion that is definitely worthwhile listening to, especially if you’re a veteran Zwifter. The discussion starts at the 30:50 marker.
The stats are quoted as “engaged Zwifters” who are both paying and actively riding (meaning, excluding inactive accounts), and based on current late July 2024 data. For the purposes of this discussion, the Zwift Insider crew notes using a number of 1,000,000 engaged riders as a potential simplistic watermark. That matches the recent interview I had with CEO Eric Min last month.
Here’s how Zwifter’s break out today:
– 45% of all engaged Zwifters are in Level 1-10
– 19% of all engaged Zwifters are Level 11-20
– 36% of all engaged Zwifters are above Level 21
The percentage of Zwifters at Level 100 is 0.06%, so assuming 1,000,000 engaged Zwifters, that would be merely 600 people. The ‘median’ Zwifters is Level 10.
/// Update – August 1st, 2024: Zwift has issued a correction to the above, saying “there was a database error causing the data to be erroneous. The data error has been corrected.”
Here’s the updates/corrections:
- Prior/incorrect: 45% of all engaged Zwifters are between levels 1 and 10
- Correct data is 10% are L1-L10
- Prior/incorrect: 19% of all engaged Zwifters are level 11-20
- Correct is 14% are L11-L20
- Prior/incorrect: 36% of all engaged Zwifters are level 21+
Further, they added an additional breakdown of the community above Level 21, specifically “Here’s our community leveling broken into roughly thirds”:
- 43% are L1-L30
- 47% are L31-L60
- 10% are L61-L100
/// End Zwift Corrections…back to the original post as originally written.
In the podcast, they posited that perhaps this meant that the majority of riders are ‘new riders’. And that’s an interesting, and certainly very possible take with some truth to it. But I actually think it means something else: People don’t actually ride Zwift as exclusively/often as some might think. Especially in the ‘off-season’. I mean, one merely needs to look at the active riders Companion App screen seasonally to see that. Roughly speaking, there’s a drop of 80%+ in max concurrent users between winter to summer. Those people (like myself) are simply riding outside for more workouts in warmer weather than in colder weather. Sure, I do indoor Zwift workouts in summer (like yesterday), but I do them far less in summer.
However, I do agree with them very much on one thing, with them saying “the big portion of Zwift’s customers are nothing like me” on the podcast, and further “nothing like the loud voices you hear in the community”. This is a nod to various changes Zwift made recently with respect to XP, and racing features, levels over 100, and so on, that the “Zwift Community” has been upset about.
It’s a challenge that every large platform has with an active community (be it hardware, software, or some other group), in that the old guard/veteran users often go down the rabbit holes that the general population simply doesn’t care about. Now, that doesn’t mean those rabbit holes aren’t worthwhile, or that they aren’t right. They very much can be. And undoubtedly I’m guilty of that in various technical topics as well from time to time. And as I note many times, the leading voices of a given community will often set the tone for everyone else, so appeasing those rabbit holes can be strategically important for a product/company.
Now, as Shane Miller noted in the podcast, there’s “really not enough detail to draw many conclusions from,” and there’s some truth to that. We don’t have some of the added data Peloton releases in their quarterly earnings reports, which talks to sessions per user per month, which is a *MUCH* more useful metric (even if it is heavily skewed by warm-ups/cool-down, it still is consistent month to month).
Still, I thought it was notable.
Peloton Adds Running Track Mode:
PeloBuddy has noted that Peloton has added a virtual running track mode to its treadmills, somewhat mirroring the little single-dot LED running tracks you saw on old-school treadmills throughout the 90’s and beyond. This is in addition to, of course, the instructor-led classes Peloton has for the treadmill, as well as various scenic runs.
On my Peloton Tread, I didn’t get the fancy new notification that this feature was added. Instead, it’s very thoroughly buried. You’ll select the “Experiences” tab at the bottom, then “Just Run”, and then “At your Own Pace / No Goal” (it doesn’t show the track for goals). At which point you’ll get a running track as a default thing shown where you’d previously have seen a blank screen:
The track is a 400m track, and is split into typical 100m sections. You’ll see a yellow dot moving around track (you), and then it’ll close out the yellow ring each time. You’ll get a lap notification each 400m. You can hide the track by tapping on it.
As an owner of one such Peloton treadmill, I actually think this is great. I’d guess that about 80% of the time when I jump on the Peloton Tread, I’m doing my own workout – rather than one of theirs. While I think their running coaches are actually *really* good (seriously, one is an Olympian), there’s the simple reality that I already have a specific workout of my own I need to do. So I usually end up just picking either a scenic run, or the nothing-burger option of basically just a blank screen of metrics. In this scenario, most of the time that structured workout would align better to a track. Thus, this works well.
It’s sorta like the Zwift May Field track. I love that silly thing, and probably the majority of time I spend on Zwift Running is spent doing structured workouts on that.
Go figure that my preference is to take an already miserable experience (running on a treadmill), and aim to make it worse (by running loops around a mindless track). Go big or go home, I guess.
Either way, nice to see Peloton’s addition here. And, in theory, this feature is actually available without a subscription, since it falls under the “Just Run” feature that doesn’t normally require a subscription on a Peloton Tread (but, I can’t validate that personally, since my treadmill is tied to a subscription).
Thanks for reading!
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I’ve tried running the track on Zwift and for the life of me I can’t figure out why would anybody do it willingly?
Running indoors is inherently boring, running on track outside is kinda boring (though consistent and therefore useful), but combining those looks like an ultimate boring thing to me.
“I’ve tried running the track on Zwift and for the life of me I can’t figure out why would anybody do it willingly?”
To me, it’s basically the running equivalent of ERG mode on a cycling trainer. Mindless, but efficient.
Isn’t any treadmill run essentially an ERG mode run since treadmills (maybe with an exception of Wahoo one) can’t do follow the gradient simulation from Zwift?
There’s an app called QZ that can connect to treadmills and adjust incline. Mine treadmill only does incline, but it does work with Zwift this way.
The median level can’t be 10 if 45% are between level 1 and 10. Must be at least 11.
Is 0.06% riders at level 100 correct or 600 riders at level 100? If using 1,000,000 riders wouldn’t 0.06% be 60,000.
No, because it’s percent. 0.06% = 0.0006, so 0.06%x1e6 = 6e-4x1e6 = 6e2 = 600.
The median numbers being quoted were all time and the 45% number between level 1-10 was currently engaged Zwifters. If you listen to podcast, they make a differentiation.
The median would have to be somewhere between 11-20 (e.g. there could be one person at levels 11 and 12)
Question: If the average rider is level 10, what does that say about the volatility/financial stability of Zwift in the long run? I’m level 33 and certainly don’t consider myself very Zwift engaged. I have a yearly subscription but tend to bounce around from different apps during the winter and rarely in the Summer months.
It would depend if those sub-10 riders are truly new, or not. If the bulk of riders are new, then that would mean there’s some new growth (which, we’ll see more clearly in concurrent user maxes this winter).
I’m probably pretty similar to you in terms of level/etc, in that I’m definitely not considered an very engaged user by normal definitions, since I use multiple platforms as part of what I do, plus ride outside/etc…
For fun, I looked at the handful of real-world people I know that I follow on Zwift (setting aside online sports tech geek outliers). Most are also in the 30’s as well. Long-term Zwifters, but simply not the main thing they do.
I suppose in some ways, this very metric is a good example of not really being the right metric. Ultimately, from a business standpoint, only one metric actually matters: Subscriber churn. That’s another metric that Peloton does report in their quarterly earnings statements.
From a pure financial standpoint, if there’s lots of Zwifters like us that use it occasionally, but still pay each month/year – that’s perfectly fine for Zwift as a company. Where there’s risk though, is when those people realize they aren’t using it that much, and/or find some other shiny object and cancel.
I’m level 53. I’m two miles away from 54, which, according to the current weather forecast, I’ll probably reach tomorrow morning. I’ve been using Zwift since December 2022. It’s certainly not the main thing I do. I’m happiest in the summer when month go by without riding indoors, but, alas, that isn’t this year. I’ve done two indoor rides in July, with likely a third tomorrow.
Would I ever leave Zwift? Probably not. It’s good enough to get me through 80 minutes without going insane (something I could never do on rollers). I know the worlds and which routes are worth riding for me, and there’s sufficient variety to keep me occupied. There’s still a few routes from the latest expansion that I haven’t ridden (saving them for winter). So I’ll be paying the annual subscription for the foreseeable future.
It begs the question of what they mean with engaged. L10 means 550km on the latest scale (just made harder), 275km if done on different routes excluding other bonuses.
I was fed up with their bugs, regressions on every release, broken coffee break, annoying delayed leveling up scheme (took me 1.6M XP to reach L100 on previous scale)… I canceled end of June before the price increase would kick in. I enjoy indieVelo very much.
Thank you Ray for mentioning it.
If Zwift is talking about “nothing like the loud voices you hear in the community” they forget a very important thing that several sports teams / leagues had to learn the hard way: That pretty small but active group is responsible for a big part of the experience for the “casuals”.
For example, Zwift is very proud of their pace partners. If you remove the high volume riders from the A to C pacers, those groups would get pretty small, significantly limiting draft and fun for the remaining riders. Without the vocal minority, most group rides would be dead.
Frankly, the only thing that sets Zwift apart from MyWoosh (outside moralities) is traffic on the platform. If they tell me they don’t care about me and my level 100 avatar, I’ll just head back to TrainerRoad which would probably be better for my training anyway.
Hi Ray, any hints on Zwift focus on Running? I use it, my wife uses it a lot, and whoever gets a Bluetooth-enabled treadmill (natively or via a Pod or Runn) seems to enjoy it.
However, I feel they have given up on launching new structured workouts (useful to fight boredom), which may signal that they are leaving Running behind.
I understand that there’s so much one can focus on, but I hope they don’t give up, as I see the treadmill status with a prevalent lack of Bluetooth as the main barrier to wider adoption.
Any thoughts or feelings on that? (from your point of view or theirs?)
Cheers
Raul, you probably want to listen to the interview Ray recently did with Eric Min, Zwift’s CEO (link to dcrainmaker.com). In short words Eric mentioned their focus on cycling for the foreseeable future. Didn’t sound too promising to me from a runner’s perspective. Btw, I’ve only tried Zwift Running a couple of times when travelling in winter times and having access to a treadmill in a gym and was kinda disappointed by the lack of dedicated running routes. Having spend quite a bit of time on Zwift cycling I sometimes think I know every pixel in and out so really didn’t enjoy running the same courses that already bore me from cycling them.
honestly speaking, these figures do not bode well for the financial results of Zwift. Level 10 is achieved with around 25 hours of rides, so it seems that the relative majority of users are either “newbies” or very casual users which are the first to pause the subscription…
I do not see anytime soon reaching the revenues expected by the VCs… balance sheet/CF will be hardly sustainable in the long term
Thank you as always Ray. Regarding the Zwift user base, it would interesting and insightful to know what is the median number of months that engaged Zwifters have been subscribed, and better yet, the trend of that number since Covid. Of course as a private company, they the privilege of not having to divulge any of this.
On the zwift statistics. I wonder how different this is is to a typical gym membership. From my understanding: 20% of gym members never actually attend the gym ever. I think ~ 10-15 % of gym members attend very occasionally, and 30% of new sign-ups cancel within 6 months.
In that sense, it’s important to market to new people to keep new members coming, but it’s almost pointless to cater to those members who simply won’t be using it, and might really alienate your dioe-hards, who probably impact purchase decision of their more casual friends.
If that’s true: For zwift, I think the most important thing is to retain the occasional users, and convert the semi regular users (1-2 times per month) to regular user.
I must also be an anomoly…I have been on Zwift since November 2016, and am currently at level 99. While i definitely enjoy cycling IRL, the convenience, comradery, and competition i have found on Zwift lead to me doing most of my riding there, (and most certainly, building the majority of my fitness there). That said even with my countless hours on the platform, i really don’t have any complaints.
The vast majority of issues i have with indoor cycling relate to the associated hardware, (So far I’ve had to repair or replace 6 trainers).
I have a Nordic Track treadmill with iFit and also find that a majority of my workouts are on the “track. ifit has some great stuff, but it usually does not fit in with what I am trying to do that day.