Heads up! The big Garmin annual spring sale has started, with $200 off the Fenix 8 (first sale to date!), $100 off the Edge 1050, Forerunner 965 at $499, the Forerunner 265, the new Instinct 3, and countless other Garmin products including inReach Mini 2. Plus the Apple Watch Ultra 2 Black Titanium is on sale, and some Suunto & Wahoo product deals too. Full list & thoughts here!
I’m DC RAINMAKER…
I swim, bike and run. Then, I come here and write about my adventures. It’s as simple as that. Most of the time. If you’re new around these parts, here’s the long version of my story.
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Hi Ray,
I’m curious, does the sensor pairing explicitly require cellular coverage or will any data connection (Wi-Fi for example) work just as well?
WiFi works as well (and how I initially did it, before switching to a SIM-enabled phone). And while technically you can use existing power meter connections without cellular/WiFI, that only works if it decides to remember the connection and let you connect to the PM.
So practically speaking, you’ll want cellular/wifi if doing any power stuff.
It seems that FTP is not a number that can be exactly quantified, more just a “ballpark range”, so I wonder how one would ever know if the watch was “correct” or not?
“With that, stay tuned for my full in-depth review of the Samsung Galaxy Watch Ultra’s optical HR sensor, GPS accuracy, and more. Same goes for the Galaxy Watch 7,…”
YES, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE! Dying out here, delaying my order until this comes out!
In terms of correctness, I think it’s really going to be ballpark-ish. Basically: “Is this number believable?” – Short of doing a full ~1hr FTP test, and even that, is iffy at best unless you know you gave it 100% and had 100% to give. (Hence, the entire somewhat silliness focus on FTP)
Hang tight on the other pieces, so far, at least for Ultra, things are actually looking pretty good…
OK, thanks! I’m really leaning towards the 7 over the Ultra, but they have the same HR and GPS sensors, if I understand correctly.
How about the ring?
I am not entirely convinced of the utility vs. a Garmin watch but who knows…
I was set to pickup the ring today, but alas, it wasn’t there. So…yeah, I wait.
(I had ordered Ultra & Watch 7 units that arrived a few hours before the Samsung media units arrived, so I didn’t need the media units. However, the Samsung Netherlands media/press office couldn’t get Ring’s since they don’t sell in the Netherlands, so I ordered one to France where I am now…but alas, it wasn’t at the store today, and they don’t really know why.)
Either way, I have other backup options, so…yeah, I wait.
I worked with Samsung directly in a previous job and the takeaway I had at the time is that they do a great job of recruiting talent (they are like the “ivy league” of South Korea in the sense of working there will gain you entry to a completely new societal status), and they produce a lot of interesting things, but they have a very poor ability to tie anything together into a cohesive user experience.
So you end up with stuff like this which is impressive, probably deep tech, but barely works for very basic reasons like the sensor drops out and it’s impossible to find out set up for ordinary mortals. I’ve seen it play out like this so many times that I just instinctively stay away from anything Samsung that isn’t a single use device like an appliance.
What I took from Ray’s piece here is that a great many very smart people designed this, and that precisely none of them are included in what they think the target market is, or what the UX needs to be for it to be a viable offering. It’s absolutely screaming “how do you do, fellow cyclists?”
*or have any understanding of what the UX needs to be
watched your YT video, thank you for sharing.
I have the latest Garmin Cadence and Speed 2 sensors and they work nicely with my Venu 3. Only after seeing your video and reading this article did I realize that I could possibly use the SH app to find these as accessories – thank you!
The app actually found both sensors. For indoor cycling, it is unfortunately simply ignoring the speed sensor and only reporting the cadence. For outdoor cycling it shows both. One annoying effect is that it uses some interval to pull the data for both sensors, ending up in a sawtooth graph (attached). Interestingly, it ignores the 0s and gives the correct average. The cadence was working simultaneously on both the SH app and the Venu 3. I thought that caused the intervals, but I confirmed that it still shows intervals when I remove the sensors from the Venu 3.
I am wondering if you have more past experience with this setup you could share. I keep looking.
Very much looking forward to your continued testing of the Ultra.
Scathing. Love it.
The algorithms coming from far east (Samsung,Huawei,Coros etc.) are fully inacceptable.
The have good hardware and that was.
I had thought I could not pair a chest strap for heart rate measurement with a Samsung watch. However, in this you didn’t pair the power meter to the watch but the phone. Could I get the same or at least similar effect as pairing a chest strap to a Garmin watch by pairing a chest strap with my phone and tracking an activity with a Samsung watch? I prefer biking, treadmill, and rowing for most exercise activities – could these be done with a chest strap reasonably well paired to the phone and using a Samsung watch. I am not sure its time to drop my Venu 3, its only a year old, but I was just wondering if I have been overlooking how to do this with a Samsung watch. My chest strap has bluetooth connectivity BTW.
I have the Venu 3 too. I wouldn’t give that up for its battery life. Looking at the Samsung Health it lists these heart rate devices, e.g. the Polar chest belt. I don’t know if these are all chest belts. I have not tried any of these for the Ultra because I do not own any. The Garmin sensors I tried (see above) were not listed under the app but still connected. Maybe any Polar belt will work, not sure.
Did it measure and get the FTP into a believable ballpark, or is FTP for all users a Gauss curve and taking into account age, gender, perhaps training load, any value near average will be ‘in the ballpark’?
I mean, it’s not far off of Garmin’s values, but then again, few people with a power meter will be below 200 W and few will be above 400 W, so taking the average and throwing in some factors will never be 100 W wrong?
How do you know it’s not simply taking a percentage of your best 4 minute effort?
The 4-minute “FTP” test is giving 7-minute abs energy.
link to youtu.be
I’m sorry Ray but you really dropped the ball on evaluating the correctness of this “FTP test”.
There are lots of tests that one can do to get an estimate of FTP. The original Coggan FTP test required at least a 40 minute max effort. The idea being that such a long effort is going to be dominated by aerobic fitness, which FTP is a measure of. Then someone made a 20 minute test as a less fatiguing alternative and used a correlation factor (0.95) to calculate FTP. This test is pretty accurate, assuming you follow the actual test protocol that includes an anaerobic effort first to make sure you’re testing your aerobic capacity in the 20 min effort. But still people wanted shorter, easier tests. So then came the 8 min test which isn’t accurate for many people because your anaerobic capacity has too large an influence to the result.
So Samsung comes along and says they can do it in 4 minutes, which is absurd, because your 4 minute power is heavily dependent on anaerobic ability. But again FTP is a measure of aerobic fitness. So you’re basically running a 400m all out and trying to estimate your 5k pace. Does that make any sense? No. Sure, you could take a bell curve of people and come up with some “typical” ratio of those times, but it will be wildly off for anyone that’s trained to be good at either distance.
Your sample size of one test is useless to prove if it’s reasonable or not. And a 20W error is actually quite large. So I would judge it a fail even for your n=1.
So what’s a better alternative? Simply upload your normal riding power data to Strava or intervals.icu. Assuming you’ve been doing some hard efforts on your rides, they will estimate your FTP fairly accurately, automatically.
“I’m sorry Ray but you really dropped the ball on evaluating the correctness of this “FTP test”.”
I get the feeling you didn’t actually read the post, at all. I literally talked about every caveat you listed, in my post.
That design is not aesthetically pleasing. They should have kept the body round as well.
I don’t suppose there’s any way that would work with an older Galaxy Watch4, but a Galaxy Fold5 phone?
– I’ll try it when I get home, but I don’t know if it’s dependent on the watch being able to pair with a power meter (Quarq in my case) or the phone