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Hands-on: Kinetic inRide V3 and Smart Trainers now support dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart

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It’s been just shy of 6 years since the original Kinetic inRide sensor was announced (Fall 2012), and today they’ve updated it with the guts it always wanted.  The inRide sensor allowed you to take virtually any existing Kinetic fluid trainer (which is pretty much all of them) and get proper power broadcasting from it, so that apps could consume that data. But far more importantly, it allowed you to calibrate the sensor on your trainer, accounting for differences in how tight you twisted the roller wheel or your tire pressure.

That calibration often meant the difference of 20-40w in accuracy between the inRide method and just a generic power curve that trainer apps often utilize.  In other words, it was a big deal.

And to that end the original inRide sensor was solid. It bought power to probably a decade’s worth of older trainers that weren’t equipped for the world of TrainerRoad, and years later, Zwift.  And did so in an accurate way.  But there were some issues.  First, it never supported ANT+, so you couldn’t connect it to your Garmin or numerous other devices or apps that used ANT+ (even an older computer).  Second, it didn’t actually support the Bluetooth Smart power standards. Instead, they cooked their own (which wasn’t actually a huge deal 6 years ago when there were no power standards).  But that meant that over time the inRide sensor got more and more isolated as the rest of the world moved to standards.

Today though, that changes. The new V3 sensor not only supports ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart, but it does it four different ways.  Atop that, they sliced the price considerably from when it first launched. Now it’s a mere $49. Oh, and it’s still compatible with a decade or so’s worth of trainers.

Now, in addition to the updated Kinetic inRide sensor, they’ve updated their ‘Smart’ trainer lineup. These are essentially just their Road Machine and Rock and Roll Trainers that ship with an inRide sensor already slapped on. They are very different from their ‘Smart Control’ trainers, which use an entirely different resistance unit. Though, that resistance unit can replace the flywheel on an existing trainer frame, reducing your costs somewhat.

[Minor clarification Aug 2018: I’ve updated this posts title/text to show V3 vs V2. That’s because technically there was a V2 version that shipped at one point when Kinetic made some code ownership changes. You might not have noticed, but in Kinetic’s listings now, they’ve gone with V3 for this product name. You may notice some comments before this point calling it V2 when in reality it’s V3. Hope this helps!]

What’s in the box – inRide V3:

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First up on the unboxing docket is the updated inRide unit itself. You’ll see that it proudly displays the ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart logos on the front, while doubling down on that on the back with more text related to it and a bunch of apps that are compatible listed.  Of course, it’s far more than these, but these are the bigger ones out there.

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Once we shake all the parts out of the box, here’s what’s left over:

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Inside you’ll find the pod, CR2032 battery, magnet/magnet plug, an installation guide, and some product safety stuff.  A nice tidy package so to speak.

Here’s the pod itself, which from the outside is identical to the existing pod, except now green instead of black.

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Then we’ve got the battery and magnet/holder.  The battery should last about a year or so, and then it’s just a simple replacement with another coin cell battery.

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Oh, and here’s the all-important product safety guide:

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And that’s all there is in the box. The pod itself has simple double-sided tape on the back of it, so it sticks to the trainer as you’ll see in the next sections.

What’s in the box – Road Machine Smart 2:

In addition to the updated Kinetic inRide pod, they also updated their fluid based trainer bundles, which include the inRide sensor built in.  Specifically, the Road Machine Smart 2, and Rock & Roll Smart 2 trainers.  Those take the Road Machine and Rock & Roll trainers/frames and plop an inRide pod on it and call it a bundle.  While I have an older Kinetic trainer myself from yesteryear, here’s a look at what the latest bundle for the Road Machine looks like:

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Note on the box you’ve now got the ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart glory listed:

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Inside you’ll find the trainer frame, the flywheel/roller unit (detached), a few screws and press-on-screw/knob, a trainer skewer, and the manual.

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The inRide sensor is already attached to the back of the trainer, and the magnet already placed inside the roller itself.

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‘Building’ the entire thing only takes a second.  You simply attach the resistance unit with a single bolt and then twist in the press-on knob. Done:

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At this point, there’s no difference between a standalone inRide sensor on a Kinetic fluid trainer and the pre-stickered variant I just unboxed.  So the rest of the post will just focus on the inRide pieces, so those are identical here.  Finally, for lack of anywhere else to stick it – the Smart Fluid bundled trainers will start shipping in late July (whereas the new inRide pods ship in July).

The Basics:

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Assuming you’re starting with the inRide sensor alone, you’ll need to get the magnet installed into your trainer.  This simply pops into the small hole on the rear of the trainer near the flywheel.  This magnet comes in the box and sits inside a little rubber stopper:

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The purpose of the magnet is to measure wheel speed.  From there it can then align that to a known power curve to determine power.  With a fluid trainer, the specific speed corresponds to a specific power level (at least after the fluid has warmed up a bit).  Because fluid trainers generally have no resistance knobs, it’s a relatively well-understood curve. Here’s an example of the power curve chart:

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But the most important piece is what comes next – calibration. See, while the power curve is accurate, what’s not accounted for is how tight you’ve attached the wheel to the trainer.  If you overtighten it, that isn’t accounted for in the resistance curves, and thus you’ll actually be working harder than the math assumes.  The trick is that there’s no perfect methodology for tightening, since everyone’s wheel size is different.  Kinetic, in their instructions, says ‘tighten the knob till it touches, and then rotate the knob fully 2-4 more times’.

As you might presume, depending on your wheel, there’s a vast difference between 2 times and 4 times in terms of resistance applied.

And that’s specifically what calibration seeks to resolve.

So to calibrate you’ll open up either any app that supports ANT+ FE-C calibration or Bluetooth FTMS calibration, and then trigger calibration from within the app.  Alternatively, if your app doesn’t support that (cough, Zwift over Bluetooth Smart), you can do it using Kinetic’s free Kinetic Fit app (that app also has paid training aspects, but that’s not in play here).  The process merely has you speed up to 21MPH, and then stop pedaling to let it coast down.

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As you coast it measures the duration it takes for the wheel to reach a certain speed, which allows them to figure out an offset value to use.  And as a result, transmit accurate power values.  Note that generally you want to wait a little bit for the fluid to warm-up, about 10 minutes usually does the trick. Or, if you’re in a hot garage in Florida with the temp is already 92°F…then I found it was nicely warmed up already.

Also, if you don’t change the roller knob in between trainer rides, and then you also ensure your tire pressure (PSI) is the same each ride, then you can get away without calibration each time since nothing has ‘changed’ in the system. You’ll likely see some slight variances during the warm-up period, but that’s pretty much normal for most fluid (and even non-fluid) trainers anyway.

While calibration is ‘the feature’ of inRide, it’s of course not exactly why you bought it. You bought it because you want to see your power numbers.  But inRide broadcasts more than that, it’ll give you speed and cadence too.  In fact, it’ll do that more ways than a Swiss Army knife. Here’s all the different methods it broadcasts your data:

ANT+ Power Meter device profile (Power + Speed + Cadence)
ANT+ FE-C Smart Trainer device profile (Power + Speed + Cadence)
Bluetooth Smart Power Meter device profile (Power + Speed + Cadence)
Bluetooth Smart FTMS device profile (Power + Speed + Cadence)

Why use FE-C and FTMS if you can’t control the resistance levels on the trainer you ask? Simple: It’s how they can allow 3rd party apps to trigger calibrate commands, which are normally reserved for high-end resistance controllable trainers. It’s kinda an ingenious idea when you think about it.

If you’re in an app like TrainerRoad, you’ll see the inRide sensor listed a number of ways, depending on whether you’ve got both ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart (or both) enabled/connected.  The key thing in TrainerRoad you’re looking for is to use the ‘Electronic Trainer’ option, versus the power meter option (since that supports calibration).  TrainerRoad started supporting Bluetooth Smart FTMS last summer when it was first introduced.

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And you can calibrate it directly from there too:

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Meanwhile, in Zwift, you’ll see it come up in both the power meter section and the resistance controllable trainer section.  You’ll note that in this section only the ANT+ trainer-specific variant (‘ANT+ Trainer 108’) is showing (the icon is of a trainer, as opposed to a power meter). That’s because Zwift doesn’t actually support Bluetooth Smart FTMS yet properly. They support a variant of Bluetooth Smart support, which companies tend to code to. But not yet FTMS.  So if you want calibration inside of Zwift you’ll need to use ANT+ FE-C instead.

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The second piece Zwift supports (just like TrainerRoad) is just showing it as a regular power meter (sans-calibration).  You can see that above as well ‘Powermeter 108’. Notice you’ll see both the Bluetooth Smart (inRide 00108) and ANT+ variants (Powermeter 108 108) of the same sensor (and 98 other power meters on my bike).  It doesn’t really matter whether you pick ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart in this context.

In the case of Zwift, you’ll also want to ensure the cadence pairing selector automatically picks the inRide sensor as well (it should), unless you have a separate cadence sensor, in which case I’d use that instead.

Once all that is up and cooking – you’ll just Zwift or TrainerRoad (or whatever your app is) like normal. You’ll see your power, speed, and cadence data shown on the screen just like a higher-end fancy trainer.  And most importantly, that data will actually be accurate too, since it’s calibrated.

And, just to round things out, here’s the inRide sensor showing up via ANT+ as a regular ANT+ power meter on a Garmin Forerunner 935 watch:

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The world is now complete, everything displays everywhere.

Accuracy:

It’s long been established that the inRide sensor is actually very solid once calibrated (logical, given the entire point of the inRide sensor is calibration). In terms of the device itself, nothing has changed in that respect – all that code is the same. What changed was the broadcasting pieces over ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart. Still, I never trust any time. Or even if I do trust companies, I always verify.

Thus, this section is about verifying. I’ve been playing with variants of the inRide V3 pod for a few months now, but for accuracy testing we’ll look at data from last week on the final production unit.  For this test I looked at Zwift, and compared it to a handful of other power meters concurrently.  On this data set we’ve got the trusty PowerTap G3 hub, alongside newcomer Avio and their Avio power meter. I had two other units on the bike at the time, but they both had issues – so we’ll remove them from this data set to reduce WTF factor.

Here’s the overall ride at a high level (and the data set is here):

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As you can see, things are very close between the three devices.  Some minor nuances here and there, but overall all very close.  These were captured on pretty different devices, so that contributes a bit. The Avio was captured on a Garmin Edge, the PowerTap G3 on a Wahoo BOLT, and the inRide data is from Zwift itself.

Let’s zoom in on the first 6 minutes to start.  What you see here is some definite stabilization of all the units. Somewhat normal actually in the first few minutes of a ride.  That’s usually when power meter temperature sensors start to stabilize for offsets, and when the fluid on the trainer is also stabilizing:

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After that I do two sprints, at which point all the units seem to ‘lock’ quite nicely into place:

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I’m seeing some slight variances/wobbling within the Avio unit, but on the whole, these three were tracking quite nicely through here.

And here’s the next little while as well.  Note that the change in scale here means that the wobbles are slightly more pronounced.  These charts at smoothed at 5-seconds.  Since this is a non-interactive trainer, it means that you won’t see quite as perfect stability as you’d see in a typical smart trainer since the wattage is purely variant on my cadence/speed/gearing (versus something like ERG mode).

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One thing to notice is that even on both the sprint and the recovery (post-sprint) are proper.  It’s actually the recovery off the sprint that is most challenging for trainers, since you can sometimes get into a spot with a trainer where it needs the speed to ‘catch-up’ a bit.  Even the KICKR SNAP can show some issues when you sprint and then instantly back-off the wattage/speed a bit, causing a bit of a gap.  Not so here though.

Overall though – the power accuracy is just as it was more than half a decade ago here: Perfectly fine.

But, one last question – what about cadence?

While something I consider a ‘bonus’ feature, it’s not quite perfect. It seems a little bit low:

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In fact, if I pull in all five units onto that chart from that test, you’ll see that the odd-man out was the inRide 2, lower than the rest by about 8RPM.  Though, there were also some spikes and dropouts on cadence that you see there.  These corresponded to the sprints a bit, which is somewhat normal for cadence coming from a trainer (when it goes awry, it’s usually due to a big sprint and the pedaling stopping, as the estimation gets confused).

As I noted a moment ago, I generally don’t consider cadence a huge deal on trainers, since so many people have it on their bike anyway.  It’s nice when it’s there, but it’s hardly a deal killer.  And given how consistently this looks to be offset, it might just be an easy fix for them (you know, like ‘add 8RPM and call it done’).  But I’m not a programmer, nor do I play one on TV.

Instead, I focus on power for trainers.  And in this case, the power is exactly where I want it to be.  So that makes me happy inside.

(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy portions were created using the DCR Analyzer tool.  It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)

Wrap-Up:

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Simply put, if you have a Kinetic fluid trainer of any vintage, the updated Kinetic inRide sensor is the best deal in the trainer/power meter realm today. There’s nothing anywhere near $50 that can provide accurate data and do so properly across all the major protocols. They nailed it.

More importantly though, I’m optimistic that we’ve seen Kinetic turn a page in their support of industry standards. With the original inRide they were hesitant to support ANT+ (or even Bluetooth Smart standards when it finally emerged).  They of course doubled-down on that with the Smart Control, costing them significant market share that should have been easy pickins for them.  But in my discussions with the company they seem to now understand how critical it is to support these standards, and over the last few months I’ve been playing with an inRide V3 variant they have gone out of their way to ensure the pods are nailing the nuances of broadcasting different power metrics in the most open ways possible.

I’d say the only area that gives me pause is the pricing on the overall Kinetic Smart Fluid trainer packages (non-Smart Control variants).  In other words, the ones where you buy a (non-interactive) Road Machine or Rock & Roll Trainer and get the updated inRide pod attached.  I’m not sure in this day and age that those prices are as competitive as they used to be.  For the money, I’d spend slightly more (or even slightly differently) and get the interactive smart control aspects from other options on the market.  Road-like feel on non-fluid trainers has improved dramatically, and the gap isn’t as wide as it used to be (if at all).

But for the inRide pod, yeah, that’s brilliant now. Especially if you’ve got an older Kinetic trainer sitting in your garage somewhere, this just breathed a gigantic breath of new life into it in terms of compatibility between apps and devices.  While Zwift and TrainerRoad did support the older inRide sensor, that support didn’t extend to other devices from Suunto, Polar, Garmin, Wahoo, and countless other apps. With the new pod though – all that changes.

With that – thanks for reading!

Wanna Save 10%? Or found this review useful? Read on!

Hopefully you found this review useful.  At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device.  The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love).  As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.

I’ve partnered with Clever Training to offer all DC Rainmaker readers an exclusive 10% discount across the board on all products (except clearance items).  You can pick up the Kinetic Smart products (or any accessories) from Clever Training. Then receive 10% off of everything in your cart by adding code DCR10BTF at checkout.  By doing so, you not only support the site (and all the work I do here) – but you also get a sweet discount. And, since this item is more than $49, you get free US shipping as well.

Kinetic inRide Gen 2 (dual ANT+/BLE)
Kinetic Road Machine Smart 2 Fluid Trainer
Kinetic Rock & Roll Smart 2 Fluid Trainer

Additionally, you can also use Amazon to purchase the unit (all colors shown after clicking through to the left) or accessories (though, no discount on Amazon).  Or, anything else you pick up on Amazon helps support the site as well (socks, laundry detergent, cowbells).  If you’re outside the US, I’ve got links to all of the major individual country Amazon stores on the sidebar towards the top.  Though, Clever Training also ships there too and you get the 10% discount.

Thanks for reading!

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103 Comments

  1. Wyatt

    Great to see Kinetic finally bring their ball back to the park to play with everyone else. Looking forward to the same update with their smart control trainers, specifically the upgrade modules for existing dumb road machines – – hopefully they come with a discounted price from what they wanted for those before as well.

  2. Dane

    Great read as usual- any news on a release date and where/how I can get one in Australia?

    • Jason from Kinetic

      Dane,
      The inRide sensors and new Smart trainers will be available in late July. You should be able to find them at your local bike shop. Our distributor in Australia is Velo Vita, they can help you find our stuff when it is available.

    • Neil A.

      Should be around AU$70 based on US$-AU$ currency conversion so I’m hoping we don’t get slugged with too much of an “Oz tax” price hike over here.

    • Glenn Levine

      Hi Jason, any plans for Polar v800 or v650 compatibility?

    • While I haven’t tested either with it, both should work. Both support the BLE power spec just fine, which the inRide 2 also supports.

  3. Matt W

    Looks like a neat bit of kit. May invest in one of these for my Road Machine. Currently use a Wahoo Blue SC with TR. Only thing putting me off is the cadence issue. Do you know if it’s possible in TR to use the InRide pod for speed/power but use a different sensor for the cadence? Thanks! Matt

    • Jason from Kinetic

      Matt,
      Most software will let you choose different sensor for different metrics, so if you want to use a different sensor for cadence that shouldn’t be a problem. That said, we will dig into the cadence a bit and see if we can refine that. That is the nice thing about having the firmware be update-able via BLE on these new sensors.

    • Charley Hay

      >> May invest in one of these for my Road Machine. Currently use a Wahoo Blue SC with TR. <<

      As you'll see exactly the same power number in TR with the inRide as you already see with your Wahoo Blue SC (using TR's Virtual Power), what's the point in buying an inRide for this use-case?

    • Matt W

      Will save me having to swap the Wahoo sensor between mine+my wife’s bikes when she wants to do a trainer session! I get through a lot of zip ties (don’t trust the rubber band for outdoor rides). I know I could get another wahoo sensor for her bike for around the same price but I like the idea of the spin down calibration.

    • Charley Hay

      >> Will save me having to swap the Wahoo sensor between mine+my wife’s bikes when she wants to do a trainer session! <<

      Fair enough – cannot argue with that!

    • “what’s the point in buying an inRide for this use-case?”

      Also – to be really clear here, it’s all about the calibration. It’s the difference between being spot-on, and being 20-40w off.

    • Matt W

      Another benefit I realised is being able to do comparable efforts on different bikes without having different virtual power “ftps”. Recently I was waiting for a part for my road bike and had to use my hard tail mtb on the trainer. Due to different wheel and tyre size/pressure the sessions had a lower RPE for the same reported virtual power. The inside would eliminate that issue.

  4. Charles

    when will the v2 be available for purchase – don’t see them on either amazon or Kinetic InRide website?

  5. Charley Hay

    Question: will this fit *every* past Kinetic Road Machine model, including an old blue/gray one from ~2005?

    ie. is the roller magnet hole going to be the right size, and is the resistance unit shape OK on this old model for the inRide to stick to?

    Similar to Matt W’s post above, the inRide could be handy for me to allow my partner to occasionally use her bike on the trainer….

  6. I’ll buy this the second it becomes available. Glad KK is finally coming to their senses.

    • Two bits of good news for you then:

      A) I just added in the purchase links for Clever Training for the three units (inRide only, R&R Trainer, and Road Machine Trainer bundles)
      B) Doing so helps support the site here 🙂
      C) Using DCR coupon code DCR10BTF saves you 10% off (though, I think that then puts you below the free shipping threshold, so might be a wet)

      Ok, that’s three bits of good news. Or, at least two and a half bits 🙂

    • Haha, thanks. I was looking for purchase links, but didn’t see any. Guess I got to the article too quickly.

  7. ChrisO

    Hi Ray,

    How accurate are these / do they claim to be? I’m a Garmin Vector 2 user, I’d gladly buy one of these new pods so to save me swapping pedals between bikes but only if they can be close to as accurate as the Vectors. Garmin claim 2% accuracy, what about the InRide?

    Cheers,
    Chris.

    • They claim +/- 2%, which seems about right.

      Areas that they say can cause slight issues are significant sprints sometimes, but even in my testing above I didn’t actually see any problems there.

    • Duane

      I’ve also done testing with this and I’ve gotten similar results as Ray comparing with a Powertap and Stages. The peak power gets a little cut off but this is mostly because it calculates power from the roller drum speed. So you might see your peak sprint power indoors a bit lower. The process sort of smooths out the power but it is in the acceptable range and quite repeatable for training purposes.

      Disclaimer: I’m a brand ambassador for Kinetic. I did product testing on this pre-release.

  8. Yannik

    Very interesting product! As I’m currently using a fairly old Tacx Trainer (Fortius Multiplayer), I was wondering if anyone knows about a similar product for this machine? I’d be more than happy if I could use it with Zwift instead of buying an all new one…

  9. Allan

    I’ve never understood how inRide can calculate (or even estimate) pedal cadence using nothing but a magnet on the roller. How does it know whether I’m generating the speed and power by spinning like crazy versus pushing a big gear.

    Any insights on this?

    • michal

      I think is has to do with the “dead-spots” of your pedal stroke?

      There is a speed difference between the dead-spots (0&180-degree) and the pushing/pulling-spots (90&270-degree).

  10. Christopher Scallion

    I would have been all about this. It’s nice to see KK come to the plate, as I always thought their trainers set the benchmark for robust and bullet proof operation.

    That is, until last month when my nearly decade old trainer bit the dust. No worries, lifetime warranty right? Not if you can’t find your decade old receipt.

  11. mpulsiv

    Help me understand the purpose of InRide V2, when my Rock-n-Roll trainer supports virtual power by Peripedal. I have been training with power for years with no hiccups and accurate metrics.

    • So in apps like TrainerRoad, Peripedal, and others, when you have a regular non-smart trainer, it uses power curves to determine your wattage (the graph looking thing linked early in the post above). That gets you in the general ballpark, but it’s not very precise.

      The reason is that the power curve assumes a very specific press-on force (aka how much you twisted that knob onto your wheel). In Kinetic’s manual, they recommend twisting the knob until it comes in contact with the wheel, and then turning 2-4 full rotations. Next time you’re at the trainer, look at the difference between 2 and 4 full rotations. 1 rotation is easy, 2 is getting pretty firm/hard, and for me and my bike, 3 is almost impossible, with 4 being totally impossible.

      But your wheel might be different. Why? Likely tire pressure, but also wheel materials. The point being that those differences if not accounted for do produce dramatic differences in wattage – about 20-40w swings. That’s a crapton in the world of wattage.

      So the inRide essentially measures how much force and tire pressure is being applied any time you do a roll-down, and then offsets the power curve so that it’s transmitting the correct power.

      Said differently: Power curves are basically just a guess that could be (and likely is) off a lot, whereas calibration gets you pretty much spot-on.

    • Kali Breighter

      Don’t all training programs (including TR) that have virtual power support spin down calibration using wheel rpm to determine tire drag on the roller and apply that to power determination?

      It appears this device is doing the same thing that the training programs do, use model specific resistance curves and spin-down calibration to determine power. The difference being the rpm sensor is on the roller rather than on the wheel and the computation is done in the little box. Detecting rpm on the roller is arguably better, and it might be assumed that Kinetic has determined better power curves for their trainers.

    • Wyatt

      TR had talked about implementing the roll down calibration, but never did – – I think to not step on KK’s original inRide gadget (I could be wrong on that, but that’s the story I recall hearing quite a few years ago now). Not sure if others have it, but I’m pretty sure Zwift doesn’t either (I was never prompted for it while using virtual power).

    • mpulsiv

      @Ray
      20-40 watts swings is definitely dramatic. Per instructions, as soon as a tire in contact, it requires 2 full rotations. That’s what I have been doing for years, consistency. I’m not sure whether manual wheel calibration plays a role in accuracy but I measured the length of full rear wheel rotation with myself on the bike (e.g. extra 160 lbs does compress tires) down to millimeters using carpenters tools (e.g. laser levels). Same tire at 80 psi was 2125mm and 60 psi is 2117mm. Which brings up a a very good point not to rely on Garmin auto calibration, unless you don’t care about accuracy.

      After all, I will probably end up getting InRide 2 for my dumb Rock-n-Roll trainer for sake of accuracy.

    • Alex

      I think one of the reasons that TR never implemented the roll down functionality was the issue with number of rotations tranmitted via cadence.

      In order to determine the offset they need to be able to measure the exact time taken for the speed to change between two values. With a larger bike wheel and cadence sensor they’re not getting enough revolutions to measure that time accurately. The inRide solves this problem by measuring at the flywheel which spins much faster and transmits more frequently and therefore they can determine an accurate value for that time.

      I think it was explained by Nate in the calibration section here: link to blog.trainerroad.com

    • I’m not aware of TR or anyone else doing that at this point (and a bunch of searching doesn’t yield anything from TR or anyone else about them having a calibrate option for VP.

  12. Colin Watts

    I confess to being one of those few who took the plunge and upgraded from a dumb Road Machine (later with the 1st gen InRide added) to a Rock ‘n Roll Smart Control January of this year. KK’s position to NOT support standards really held me back, and I’ll admit to considering a Tacx, but I decided to support an American company (the KICKR was beyond my means) and “live with” recording duplicate activities on my Garmin device and speed/cadence sensor and an iPad connected to the RnR. One activity has power, the other without. Yeah, I could also struggle to export .FIT files between platforms, but it’s a “pick your poison” thing.
    I stuck with Kurt Kinetic, and I hope they stick by us Smart Control users and offer the same capabilities as this new InRide sensors. I’m counting on you!

    • Brad J

      Unfortunately, I saw elsewhere that the current Smart Control trainers will not be able to be updated or otherwise benefit from the changes. Like you, I bought a Rock Roll Smart Control at the beginning of the year—they had a 20% off deal at that time, so I decided to get it notwithstanding the issues since I really like having the motion/rocking.

    • Colin Watts

      I’d read the same, but was wondering if that was a techology limitation, or just “policy”? I was hoping KK would respond, but probably too much to ask.

    • The current Smart Control units don’t have any ANT+ chipset in them, so that’s a non-starter from a hardware standpoint. The chipset they selected simply can’t get there from here.

      However, that chipset is technically capable of anything they want to transmit over BLE. So technically they could look to implement BLE FTMS over it like the new inRide.

      I suppose in some ways at this point that ship has long since sailed. Folks buying those trainers kinda knew what they were getting into. :-/

    • Duane

      FTMS support for the Smart Control is in beta testing now. It is getting better but there are some rough edges and the biggest hold up at the moment is the release of FTMS support in Zwift to really get more touch points and feedback.

    • Glenn Levine

      Can someone tell me the additional specific metrics/controls I would get if I upgraded to this new InRide while using Zwift and a Road Machine Smart?

      Also, since I also use Polar devices alongside Zwift, it seems there could be a benefit of sending power and cadence, Bluetooth to Polar, Ant+ to Zwift, simultaneously. Will that simultaneous transmission be possible?

      g

  13. Sohil Parekh

    Hi, I currently use Kinetic Rock and Roll smart trainer which has inride sensor which gives power, cadence and speed. It also syncs to Strava but not to garmin. What additional advantage I will have with Inride V2? Will it control resistance if I use it on zwift or trainer road?

    • Rich Ray

      The only Kinetic trainers Zwift can “Control” are those with the Smart Controller. Uses magnets and not fluid to provide resistance. InRide (V1 or V2) does not give Zwift or for that matter any app the ability to control the Kinetic trainer. I still think the Kinetic fluid trainer offers the best feel. Even better with the Pro Flywheel accessory. So while Zwift cannot control the resistance it is still worthwhile to use with Zwift.

    • Bill

      The last In-ride sensor suite didn’t accommodate their pro flywheel.

      Are you aware whether or not this newer version does? I’ve got an older road machine with the pro flywheel and would love to add this sensor, especially since it’s only $50, as long as their calibration can now accommodate the pro flywheel.

      Thanks!

    • Steve@Kinetic

      Actually the Pro Flywheel accessory is currently supported by our black inRide sensors and the Kinetic Fit app. The added mass will increase the spindown calibration and the app will automatically know it’s present and make accomodations in the power curve. The older Kinetic inRide app was also compatible, but there was a toggle that needed to be switched, it wasn’t able to auto detect it’s presence during spindown.

    • Bill

      Thanks for clarifying this for me! I appreciate the quick response!

    • Roady

      So the pro flywheel is NOT compatible with the NEW Green InRide, only the older Black InRide? The fact you specifically mention the colour (not mentioning Green)?

    • Neil A.

      @Roady: I believe the PRO flywheel will be supported, it was just Steve’s answer was phrased to answer the comment that the current sensor suite didn’t support it (but it does) and did not directly refer to the new green sensor.

    • Duane

      The pro flywheel is compatible with the new sensor.

  14. Jim

    Will this work with a Kurt kinetic on a old small wheel adaptor? Will the reading be accurate?

    • Steve@Kinetic

      Yes and yes. Make sure you use the smoothest tire available and if the pressure rating for the tire is less than 100 psi, make sure you run it at the max psi listed on the sidewall.

    • mpulsiv

      @
      Steve@Kinetic

      What does “smoothest tire available” supposed to be mean? All road tires are smooth.
      Are you saying that Kinetic trainers were calibrated at your facility at max tire pressure in order to provide accurate metrics? If this is true, you might want to be vocal about this and maker it crystal clear to all users. Needless to sayt, update your website link to kurtkinetic.com

    • Chader

      “All road tires are smooth.”

      That is not true at all. Many road bike tires have short grooves for water and dirt control. Those can and will impact the sound for sure, and possibly performance of any wheel-on trainer.

      Point being that tire choice for a wheel-on trainer does matter.

    • mpulsiv

      Indeed, all road tires are smooth. ~0.25 millimeter grooves (e.g. Continental GP4000) have zero impact. Not smooth tires would be gravel tires with knobbies.

      I fail to understand the statement by Steve@Kinetic “make sure you run it at the max psi listed on the sidewall”.

      Perhaps we should be using their dedicated trainer tire for sake of accuracy?
      link to kurtkinetic.com

  15. Rod MB

    ‘…It’s long been established that the inRide sensor is actually very solid once calibrated (logical, given the entire point of the inRide sensor is calibration). In terms of the device itself, nothing has changed in that respect – all that code is the same..’,

    Couple of queries:

    I’m taking from the above that there would be no advantage to upgrading from my current set up using a Kinetic trainer retrofitted with the previous inRide which I’m happy works fine for me in conjunction with a Garmin speed / cadence sensor on TrainerRoad.

    Second thing that has always bugged me! At the end of calibration process does the little box actually make an adjustment to offset the power data output based on the roll down time?

    The advice I get occasionally on the Kinetic app if the roll down time exceeds the ‘ideal’ is to tighten the roller. This suggested the app is just measuring the roll down time, comparing this to an acceptable known range, and then advising tightening the roller to increase the rolling resistance and thereby reduce the roll down time until it lies within the ‘accepted range’.

    I’m not sure if second query has much relevance if (at the end of the day) the power data is accurate.

    Thanks DC / Jason / others in advance.

  16. Neil A.

    “So if you want calibration inside of Zwift you’ll need to use ANT+ FE-C instead…….And most importantly, that data will actually be accurate too, since it’s calibrated.”
    Did you actually undertake a calibration purely within Zwift Ray? How was it?
    I see that ability as one of the main advantage of moving from V1.6 to V2.0. That and the ability to use apps that currently only support Ant+ (such as VirtuGo) and not available to InRide users.

  17. Alberto

    Stupid Question Number 1: Can I use the inRider on trainers of other brands?

    Stupid Question Number 2: Can I use the inRider on the field?

  18. Paul Le Fevre

    Well I guess I should have known. For the last 2 weeks I’ve been going out of my mind trying to locate an InRide sensor pod for a Road Machine trainer I was given by a friend. From Australia, you can’t buy them from overseas and numerous enquiries to local KK retailers and finally the distributor amounted to nothing. Last Saturday though, while I was having $900 worth of tyres fitted to my car, I went for a walk and stumbled on a bike shop… While browsing a guy came up and asked me if I needed any help. “No thanks, just browsing” I said. “Well, actually, I don’t suppose you have a Kurt Kinetic InRide sensor do you?”. “A what?” he replied. After looking on his computer, of course the answer was no. But then another staff member came up and asked what we were looking for so I told him. “Give me a minute” he said. A minute later he comes back with a package. “We’ve had this sitting on a shelf for 18 months, it’s not even in our stock inventory any more – how does $20 sound?”. While the $900 on the tyres really hurt that day, the $20 InRide sensor was a bright little light. Problem is now that I have InRide 2.0 envy….

  19. Looks like a neat bit of kit. May invest in one of these for my Road Machine. Currently use a Wahoo Blue SC with TR. Only thing putting me off is the cadence issue. Do you know if it’s possible in TR to use the InRide pod for speed/power but use a different sensor for the cadence? Thanks! Matt

    • Chader

      Yes, if you have a dedicated cadence sensor paired in the TR devices, it will use that instead of the Kinetic cadence.

  20. Paul Le Fevre

    How does InRide record cadence?

    • Jason from Kinetic

      It detects the variation in power during the pedal stroke. Even the smoothest pedal stroke has enough variation to pick up. (though our test robot can fool it)

  21. Roady

    Ray, grammar/incomplete sentence under Accuracy – “One thing to notice is that even on both the sprint and the recovery (post-sprint) are proper.”

    It’s good to see Kinetic do a complete U-turn/eat humble pie over their BT decision and I’m glad they will continue supporting and adding functionality to what are very solid dumb trainers. But I’d seriously question their marketing and price points. They’re still selling 10-15 year old trainer tech with 5+ year old InRide technology.

    I was one of the burnt original InRide owners. I went through 4 pods and 10 months of what felt like Beta testing their Android app for them before they imploded software support wise (nothing else left to try), which coincided with the bad comments & ignorance from their rep/lead programmer on another page here. My experience was such that I’ll never touch another Kinetic product again. I’m really glad I didn’t venture to the original Smart Control unit and all the expensive disappointment it seemed to bring.

    Have KK done anything to help those owners who bought into their products – only to be left high and dry with expensive, untested, non-functioning & pointless paperweights?

    TLDR; Buyer beware!

  22. G

    Will this show me live virtualpower?or do I need a third party app like trainerroad to see the live power?

  23. Jeff

    Another great review—but am wondering. For those of us that have the original InRide unit and use it on a Road Machine and only train with the Kinetic app is there any benefit to upgrading?

  24. Matthew

    Now, if KK would only make a wheels off version of the Rock and Roll, that would be the perfect trainer for base training / sweet spot training.

  25. Andy

    So I have an original inRIde unit and a P2M power meter. They both give different power numbers (usually the P2M is 20-30W lower) which annoys me no end. P2M have refused to help over the past several years but kinetic have been super helpful and replaced units that they have calibrated. I suspect the P2M is off but their customer service has been atrocious even after doing hill tests that they prescribe. Are the original and new inRide’s the same level of accuracy or is there improved accuracy? I’d love to have my indoor power translatable and relevant to riding outdoors!!!

  26. Steve Hyle

    I’ve got the Rock & Roll 2.0 Trainer I bought new in February of 2015. It doesn’t have a small hole by the flywheel to attach the sensor.
    Am I missing something?
    Thanks,
    Steve

  27. Jonathan Nelson

    I skimmed over this since I have a short attention span but I appreciate the thoroughness of the review. I did see that it does connect with Garmin. I use the Edge 520 bundle which comes with a speed and cadence sensor, but not a power meter. Will this device pair with the Edge 520 head unit? How about the speed and cadence? If the trainer senses it and I have sensors on the bike, what will the head unit actually pick up? Will I have to remove the sensors when riding indoors and then put them back on when riding outdoors?

    Also the RM Smart 1 is currently on sale for $275. What is the anticipated MSRP for this trainer?

  28. Yale

    Hi
    I have a Garmin 935 – it’s not finding the sensor but I used the kinetic app to calibrate and it worked fine. Any tips to get 935 to find sensor?

    • You should be able to find it as an ANT+ power meter without issue.

      As for calibrating, you won’t be able to do that from the FR935, since the FR935 doesn’t support ANT+ FE-C, and last I checked Kinetic doesn’t accept the calibrate commands over the regular power side (since it requires a spindown).

    • yale

      i went to settings/sensors and accessories/add new/search all – says nothing found – (held watch anywhere from 1 cm from sensor to three feet away). Tried speed and power, nothing. On power, it said to pedal to activate sensor, nothing. Is it possible that my ant on the watch is somehow shut off? Anyway to check that? Thanks for the help btw

      My point on calibrating was that from the kinetic app on my phone it showed the device was actually working (showing speed, power, etc.) so i know the device itself was working.

    • Jason from Kinetic

      The new version of the inRide sensor is not yet available in the market, the one you have is the Bluetooth-only version. The new sensors (which are green rather than black) will be available later this month in the US.

    • yale glazer

      well crap – can I return this one and get the new one?

    • jason from Kinetic

      When and where did you get it? Where do you live?

    • yale

      just bought it 6/26/18 from the website, based on this post – just installed it two days ago (I saw DC Rainmaker’s 935 watch pic showing the ANT connection, so thought I was good to go).

      I live in NJ –

    • jason from Kinetic

      Email me at joverman@kurt.com. I can swap it out for you. We don’t have inventory yet, but I think I have one at my desk.

    • yale

      awesome, thanks so much, just emailed you!

      DC Rainmaker, making dreams happen!

  29. siddharta1979

    I got a roadtrainer, but still have to purchase either a speed/cadence sensor to use with virtual power or this new KK v2 sensor. After the first calibration, both sensors seem to rely on consistency (same PSI pressure and same knob turns): what’s the difference then? “real” power only?
    E.G. v2 sensor -> real power numbers
    speed/cadence sensor -> consistently 20 watts off the real power number

    Is this right?

  30. michael powell

    Is the power sensor the only change to the v2 as compared to the current smart trainer?

  31. Brittany McIntosh

    Any trouble calibrating? When I spun up to 22mph and coasted it just got stuck on preparing to calibrate?

    • Colin Watts

      Brittany,

      I first must say I don’t have this exact sensor, but I do have the older InRide, and the Rock-n-Roll Smart trainers, and both have had the same problem being “stuck” calibrating. I’ve found that if I get off and tighten the trainer on the rear tire more, it will calibrate. Sometimes even just a half-turn of the knob is enough.

  32. Danny Bower

    Fab write up as always – can’t wait for these to hit the UK (2-3 weeks according to kinetic so just enough time for me to save).

    Quick question re: calubration. Is the calibration stored in the unit or in the software. So for example if I calibrate in the kinetic software and the go straight in to Zwift will the calibration be carried over?

    • jonlynch

      I was also told on the 12th of August that they expect them to arrive in europe in 2-3 weeks and that they will be available from their site first most likely. link to kurtkinetic.eu . Also clevertraining mentioned that at this time they do not have plans to bring this item to the UK site.

      regarding the calibration, it appears to be done on a per application basis (ie. by trainerroad, zwift etc) and stored by that application for its use only. So I imagine you will have to calibrate in each application separately. for zwift just use ANT+ FE-C calibration in the zwift application. Once tyre pressure and knob turns on trainer remain constant there is no need to re-calibrate.

    • jonlynch

      its up now on link to kurtkinetic.eu and link to kurtkinetic.eu , you can add it to you cart, but dont see anywhere to go to the checkout.

  33. Maura G.

    So far, so……nothing. We can not get our sensor to be recognized by the Kinetic Fit app. Turns out–after communicating with Kinetic–that there are “code issues”. No clear idea of when they’ll be fixed. They have offered us a free trial of another app, or an old sensor.

    So if anyone is going to try to use this version with the Kinetic app, you may want to wait a bit.

    Disappointing.

    • Jason from Kinetic

      Maura, we are working on an update to the Android Fit app to address the problem you are having. This is only affecting the Android version of Fit, iOS works fine. We expect to have the update done in a week to ten days to address the problem. In the mean time, if you want to use Fit we are willing to send you one of the previous inRide sensors, which will work with the current Android Fit app. Please bear with us, it is the top priority for our Android dev team.

    • Anthony

      iOS is not working fine. I can’t get a successful calibration even following the detailed FAQ instructions from Kindtic Support. The app just gets stuck calibrating and I have to remove the battery to reset the InRide before being able to try the calibration process again…and again…and again…

    • Michael Gregory

      Any progress on this? I just got an inRide v3 to use on iOS and I’m having the same problem: freezes on calibration spin-down and drains battery.

    • Chazu

      Works on my machine.

    • Michael Gregory

      I started a support ticket from within the inRide app on iOS. Steve from Kinetic told me that they are working on the app right now. The problem only occurs when the calibration fails, so if I get the calibration right, no freeze. My problem – Steve says the most common problem – was that I didn’t have enough turns on the tensioner. I added one full revolution and now my inride works fine and matches my PowerTap G3 hub.

  34. Nik

    Seems to be having same issue with the Kinetic App in Android… Can’t find the sensor… It was picked up by TrainerRoad app and seems to be working decent there… My issue has to do with the gromet and the magnet that you have to fit in the hole. Based on the instructions the magnet has to lay flat/flush with the gromet and the trainer drum…
    My magnet got pushed 3mm inside the rubber gromet and I can’t seem to be able to get it back up/out…I used it regardless and seems to be reading both the power and the cadence lower than expected.

    -Do you think the magnet being 3mm deeper could cause it to inaccurately report data?
    -Any ideas how to get that magnet back out? Tried a variety of tools, including tweezers with the only success of tearing the lip of the rubber/gromet! Thanks in advance.

    • jonlynch

      i have a similar problem where the inride sensor is not detected in the kinetic fit app on android 8 via bluetooth. the app detected my wahoo tickr hr monitor no problem via bluetooth. (neither sensors were paired with bluetooth through my phone as recommended). i tried multiple times, and took battery our of inride, flipped battery around, and then back to positive side up but results are the same.

      My garmin edge 520 detects the inride as a trainer sensor, and gives power numbers and in the menu when i go to the calibrate option, the target speed is 35kmph and when that is reached it says to stop pedalling, i see the speed drop down but then it stops at 24kmph and says “calibration failed” “Calibration error”. i tried multiple times, and took battery our of inride, flipped battery around, and then back to positive side up but results are the same.

      my magnet also ended up a few mm deeper into the hole on the trainer, i followed instructions on installing, the lips of grommit sat up outside the hole (as in step 4 of the user guide) and the space for the magnet seemed small, i pushed the magnet down and the lips of the grommit ended up going inside and the magnet ended up inside a few mm deep in the hole and sitting sideways. If this is going to be a big issue, I too would like to know how to get the magnet back out

  35. Aaron Santos

    Great write-up!!!

    I’ve been loyal to Kurt Kinetic for nearly ten years and I’m glad they finally support the Ant + . I was extremely disappointed last year when I had to upgrade my trainer from the original Rock and Roll to the Smart Control Road Machine and found that the trainer did not support Ant +. KK has the most realistic feeling trainer and their customer support has been amazing which is why I have remained loyal the brand. Looking forward to the introduction of the smart control units with Ant +. Any new insight if these are available or when they will be available as I’m not seeing these available on the website yet?