Heads up – Massive Sports Tech Holiday Deals List is Live!!! The Garmin Fenix 8 is $250 off (even the Fenix 8 Pro is $100 off!), the Apple Watch Ultra 3 is on sale, the Garmin inReach Mini 2 is $249, the GoPro Hero 13 Black, DJI NEO, and a ton of other brands/deals, including Wahoo, Oura, Whoop, Polar, Samsung, Google, and more than 100 sports tech deals here!
The Week in Review is a collection of both all the goodness I’ve written during the past week around the internet, as well as a small pile of links I found interesting – generally endurance sports related. I’ve often wondered what to do with all of the coolness that people write, and while I share a lot of it on Twitter/X and Facebook, this is a better forum for sending it on to y’all. Most times these different streams don’t overlap, so be on the lookout at all these places for good stuff!
So with that, let’s get into the action!
DCR Posts In The Past Week:
Ebb and flow, quiet week this week in preparation for a busier week next week.
Here’s what hit the tubes over on the You of Tube; definitely don’t forget to subscribe there to get notified of videos the second they hit!
Sports Tech Deals:
Companies are starting to announce their Black Friday deals, which will basically stay the same through the holiday period. I’ve been working to add them in as they get announced. In general, for most companies, if they announce sales now, won’t introduce lower prices on Black Friday for those same exact models/products, as it annoys the @#$@# out of retailers, who have to deal with price credits or returns. Stuff like the Amazon-driven sales of the Garmin Epix though, are wildcards, because that’s not really Garmin’s sale, but Amazon controlling that particular product as it’s not under Garmin’s MAP policy anymore (minimum advertised price).
Product
Sale Price
Amazon
Other site
Sale Notes
Adobe Creative Cloud Pro (12 Months) - $389 off (50% off!)
As a side note, you can cancel and take advantage of this. Which, is precisely what I did when I realized my existing plan was gonna be stupid expensive. In any case, I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Pro suite for a lot of what I do.
We did see lower just back in July, at $199. So I'd probably hold out a bit more here. Assuming that happens, you can't beat this watch at this price point (heck,not even at $226 either).
Perhaps this deal will get better, but right now at $20 off...nah. Given the price of the Garmin Epix Pro has flirted into the $429 range a bit over the past few days (and is a vastly better watch), this needs to drop down closer to $299 to be worth picking up during Black Friday pricing.
Despite being a tech-focused dude, our kids don't actually get much tech in their lives. However, we got these two years ago for them in their rooms, to play music. They do lots of other things, but our kids mostly just use it to play music (from Spotify and Apple Music too), and occasionally they ask it questions. It has all the parental controls I want, so it locks it down from bedtime/etc...For $31? Solid deal (The coolest 'nice touch' feature is that if you whisper to it, it'll whisper back...in the owl kids voice it has.)
⚡ This is an awesome deal. I use my iPad primarily for TrainerRoad as well as Zwift when not with a larger display. I also occasionally use it for other apps, namely Indievelo, Kinomap, Rouvy, and Peloton. But I pretty much test every smart trainer app on it. For all these cycling apps, the graphics capabilities is really pretty irrelevant, so having the absolute top-end/latest model won't make any difference. I prefer the budget options.
Apple 2025 14" MacBook Air Laptop with M4 - $250 off
See my other note about the MacBook Pro. While I'd love the MacBook Air instead, the singular reason I use the MacBook Pro is the added USB-C port (2 vs 3 on MacBook Pro). Otherwise, this spec-wise woudl do the trick.
Apple 2025 14" MacBook Pro Laptop with M5 - $250 off
This is the updated/newer model of the MacBook M1 Pro that I use for all my video editing. In my case, I still use a 2021 14" MBP, with relatively modest specs (32GB RAM). And I've been super happy with it, even while editing complex drone/action cam videos with 4 concurrently 4K streams in a multicam configuration, it has zero issues rendering or anything else.
These are the just-released AirPod Pro 3, with optical heart rate sensors in them. These are my daily-driver headphones these days, and even more notably, the heart rate accuracy is incredibly good in these.
This is the first major sale for the Apple Watch SE 3, which came out just 2 months ago. It's essentially Apple's 'budget' offering, yet it still has all the same software features as a higher-end Apple Watch Series 11, as long as the hardware permits.
This is the first time we've seen the Apple Watch Ultra 3 on sale, and given it's $100 off, that tends to be the typical sale price for the holidays/Black Friday for the current/just-released version.
This is the singular piece of apparel that's lasted the longest in my collection - some 15-16 years of buying the same socks. Heck, some of them are probably half that old. EIther way, this be the ones I use. Love them (well, except for hiking and trail running, then I use other stuff that goes higher). I'm wearring them as I wrote this post too.
This is a great price for this watch. Note though that technically speaking, this is a price reduction (took effect Nov 14th following the launch of the Pace 4). Most companies would first call it a sale, then make that sale price the new price as a price reduction. But COROS often beats to a different drum. Kudos on being upfront about the reduction though!
This is a great price for this watch. Note though that technically speaking, this is a price reduction (took effect Nov 14th following the launch of the Pace 4). Most companies would first call it a sale, then make that sale price the new price as a price reduction. But COROS often beats to a different drum. Kudos on being upfront about the reduction though!
This is last year's model. And sure, the Action 6 came out 48 hours ago, but honestly, the initial rection hasn't been kind there. I just started testing it, so more to come very shortly.
Look, don't buy this drone. This is the drone that never should have left the napkin at the lunch table at DJI's HQ. The unit breaks easily (as I, and many others found out), and doesn't really do anything super well. Literally, buy any other DJI drone except htis one...you're welcome.
⚡ This is a great little drone as your first drone, especially for sports usage, where it'll do an astonishing job following you (running, cycling, etc...). And, you can crash it a gazillion times without any problem.
NOTE: This is not sold by DJI directly via Amazon. DJI itself is NOT selling the OSMO 360 in the US, and WILL NOT support/repair it in the US. That said, it's a solid deal if you're ok with those risks.
This is Elite's previous-gen trainer, but it's still a reliable workhorse. This bundle is paired with the Zwift Cog/Click, though, you can also buy it without a cassette for the same price.
These is the new model just released this past summer with stronger anti-scratch resistance (I even dragged it down a textured concrete pool desk, lens-down, to show this).
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro MX dual-sided power meter pedals deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing constantly along with the PRO RS pedals. Note for US folks: Favero does include all taxes and tarrifs in the price.
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro RS dual-sided power meter pedals having their first sale yet. This deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing, and will likely pick up another set in this sale. Note for US folks: Favero does include all taxes and tarrifs in the price.
FeedBack Sports Pro Mechanic Bike Repair Stand - $50 Off
We use this stand for both any of the work we do on any of our bikes (well, except the cargo bike). Super quick and easy to take out when we need it. Note: Feedback Sports is a DC Rainmaker Partner
FeedBack Sports Pro Mechanic HD Bike Repair Stand - $55 Off
I've got this setup, andit's basically got almost everything I need for regular/daily bike maintenance across virtually all of my bikes. Plus, in theory I can keep things tidy in that carrying case....I mean, if I were to actually put all the tools back in it. Note: Feedback Sports is a DC Rainmaker Partner
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price we've seen on this watch to date. This is their first full smartwatch focused on kids activity tracking and gamification.
⚡ This is the go-to sale price for the Fitbit Charge 6. It happens often, but it still doesn't take away from the fast that it's argueably the best bang for your buck fitness tracker out there.
If you're looking for a simple and inexpensive activity tracker, you won't go wrong with a Fitbit (or this Inspire 3). It's got literally all the same software features in the Fitbit app as a higher-end Google Pixel Watch or other Fitbit device, except...just tiny.
⚡ This is Garmin's newest kids-focused and LTE connected smart watch. Our three daughters have been using it for about two months now, after using the original Bounce 1 for years. This is a *massive* upgrade over the Bounce 1, both in features/hardware, but frankly also battery life. My review should be up next week, but if you've got any questions drop them in the comments below.
This is the activity tracker that both of our oldest daughters have used for years (age 8 & 9), as well as most of their friends now. They/we all like it. Check out my full in-depth review for all my thoughts. That said, the new Bounce 2 came out two months ago, and while my review isn't out yet, it's a far better product. But, quite a bit more too. The TLDR on that review will be that it's the best kids smartwatch/tracker to date (for both parents and kids), but obviously will cost you $100 more.
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market.
Garmin Descent MK3i (Dive watch with air integration) - $250 off!
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market. The 'i' version (MK3i) means that you can connect it to an air tank monitor transmitter pod.
⚡This is a very solid deal, and is still one of the best bike computers Garmin has ever made, especially when you look at the battery side of things (it lasts far longer than the Edge 1050).
⚡At $249, it's pretty much impossible to beat this deal in terms of bike computers. There's no competitive option that beats it on features/battery/etc at this price, or frankly anywhere near it. Sure, it doesn't have a touchscreen, but it's not as bad as it used to be (I did a stint on it this winter for a week or so, and was fine).
⚡⚡This is the lowest price we've seen on the Garmin Edge 540 Solar to date, which has gained virtually all of the new Garmin Edge 1050 features as well. And notably, lower than the Edge 540 without solar (which is kinda silly, but hey, win for us!).
This is the lowest price we've seen on this to date. The Enduro 3 is simply the Fenix 8 with a MIP/Solar display (but without the scuba or voice calling features). It gets all the Fenix 8 features and updates otherwise.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support. Note: Availability on this deal fluctuates, just keep checking back, I'm sure it'll pop back again (it always does).
⚡⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡⚡ This is very unexpected, and is an Amazon-specific deal, not a Garmin-supported one. Thus, I expect it won't last more than minutes/hours. Grab it while you can! [Update: This keeps fluttering back and forth, just keep checking!]
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
As a general rule, the Fenix E is the watch that literally nobody is buying, and makes no sense at higher prices. The hardware is simply the Epix Gen 2 with Fenix stamped on it. That watch is going for $400, though I expect we'll see it down to $300 over Black Friday. However, one *KEY* difference with the Fenix E, is that it includes all of the software features of the newer Fenix 8, whereas the Epix Gen 2 doesn't get all the new software features. Otherwise, save your $200.
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price on the Forerunner 265, which was recently replaced by the Forerunner 570 (but at nearly twice this price). What's fascinating about this sale price, is it's well beyond the usual sale prices for Garmin for this product. This pricing is 100% an Kansas-themed 'Hello!' to COROS and their just released COROS Pace 4 at $249.
The Foreurnner 55 is a great option if you simply don't want to spend a ton, but still want a super-capable runners watch (and general activity/sleep tracking watch). I've heard a lot of you get it for teenagers that run, as a great/inexpensive way to track their runs, and still be a good everyday watch.
⚡ This is the lowest price to date on the Forerunner 965, which is logical given the Forerunner 970 came out this past spring (which essentialy adds a flashlight and some other running metrics/features).
⚡ This is a very unexpected sale, just launched, on this very new watch, which is Garmin's top of the line Forerunner watch with virtually all the same software features as the Fenix 8 (but in a plastic case and without the diving features).
The Garmin Inded BPM is Garmin's medically certified blood pressure monitor. It integrates directly into your Garmin Connect account. I use it on occasion as a comparison for wearables, and it works just fine (obviously it's already medically certified by the FDA, so I say 'works' here in the sense of usability/functionality/etc...).
I use this scale, merely for the weight tracking functions (not body fat). It works just fine for that piece, and integrates with the rest of your Garmin data. If you aren't in the Garmin ecosystem, there's plenty of (far) cheaper options.
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, with both an AMOLED and Solar variants. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, and the Solar edition in particular has 'unlimited' battery life in certain scenarios. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
This is Garmin's radar without the light, so it's a bit smaller as a result. Same radar tech though, and compatible with Garmin/COROS/Hammerhead/Wahoo bike computers.
This is Garmin's standalone radar+taillight option, and $149 is pretty much the standard sale-price. Even despite all the new radars out there, this remains the most accurate option on the market. Now, only if Garmin would just re-release it with USB-C. C'Mon Garmin...maybe next year?
This is the first time this product has been on sale, since launching last spring. I'd argue it could have used a $100 off sale...but hey...they don't consult me.
⚡ The Garmin Venu 4 just came out two months ago, and one of the big ticket features is the LED flashlight built-in. However, it's also got a ton of other new features, as Garmin merged the codebase with the Forerunner/Fenix series, resulting in a boatload of added things like Training Readiness, Acute Load, and more.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen on the newest product in the entire Garmin Holiday 2025 sale lineup. This is basically a blend of a Forerunner 970, Venu 4, and Fenix 8...but super thin. It's argueably one of the best deals here at $599, though, Garmin is still clearly trying to figure out the right pricing to drive purchases.
⚡ This is the first time we've seen the Vivoactive 6 on sale, which is essentially a Venu 4, but without the voice/calling/ECG features (and a few other tidbits). It's probably one of the best deals in Garmin's lineup (sale or otherwise).
⚡ This is the lowest price we've ever seen for this. This is my defacto satellite communicator when out of coverage area, and I've used it on a number of major treks over the past two years when well outside of cellular service, both in a 24x7 tracking mode for friends and family, but also there in case of emergency. Would strongly recommend for anyone doing anything in the wilderness.
This came out last fall, and is the second time this has been discounted, but now to the lowest price to date. The key difference with the new Plus model is that it adds the ability to send photos and voice messenges via satellite. I've used it a bit, and it's pretty cool because it makes it a lot faster to just say something rather than type it out, but the $499 price seemed excessive. $399 makes it slightly more palatable.
This is GoPro's budget option, which includes a full color touchscreen on the back as well. The main benefit is it's super small, but note it's not quite in the same quality ballpark as their higher-end cameras. If you want size and GoPro ecosystem on a budget, this is an option. But with the DJI Action 4 just $20 more than $199, that offers notably better quality.
We have more Nest cam's than I can count. No really, we have half a dozen at the DCR Cave alone, plus more at home. We love them. Nest Cam's really only go on sale about 1-2x per year.
The newer Pixel Watch 4 came out back in October. I see the Pixel Watch 4 as a pretty substantial hardware upgrade over the Pixel Watch 3, notably due to satellite SOS, as well as a user-replaceable battery.
This has become one of my favorite drones, given it's tiny size (fits in my running shorts pockets) and ease of use. Plus, you can crash the crap out of it (hundreds of times for me and my wife) without any issues. This combo includes an extra battery and fast charger.
⚡ This is a solid deal on a solid drone, and one of the two main ones I use when taking videos of myself hiking or running. This includes the two extra batteries as well as the fast charger (so 3 batteries total).
This is one of the other more popular display-laden rowing machines. I haven't tried this, but my sports-tech reviewing buddy DesFit has (linked at side) and liked it.
⚡ This just came out this past August, and is a great little unit. The pod isn't quite as tiny as the Go 3S, but the features and quality are a huge step up (especially the removable MicroSD card).
This is one of the best 360 action cams on the market, alongside the GoPro Max 2 (both have their pros and cons, check out my full comparison guide linked).
This is one of the most popular indoor trainer fan companies out there, which rivals the Wahoo Headwind fan but cost a fraction of the price. Of course, it lacks ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but realistically if you really want that you can add a smart outlet for $10 to toggle it on/off from your phone if need be. It's one of the ones in my rotation.
Nespresso VertuoPlus Coffee and Espresso Machine by De'Longhi Delux Kit - 35% off!
⚡ Let's be honest: This place runs on Nespresso (or, well, the knock-off pods we buy). But, the machine is Nespresso. Without it, reviews most definitely would not get done (and certainly not on time). This is a pretty sweet deal if you ask me!
Ooni Karu 12 Multi-Fuel Outdoor Pizza Oven - $120 off
I use the Fyra 12 (with wood pellets), and love it. The Karu 12 is essentialyl the newer version of that, and there's both a gas-only version, and a multi-fuel option (gas or wood). Love it!
I use Philips Hue stuff all over the DCR Cave/Studio for lighting, both obviously colorful stuff in the background of shots, but also just for automation of the lights. Same goes at home. Love it (mainly when it's on sale like now). Starter packs are a good place to begin, and then I love the light strips (such as pictured).
⚡The Pixel Watch 4 LTE includes satellite SOS connectivity, even if you don't activate a cellular plan on it. I'd strongly recommend getting the LTE version for $50 more, to future-proof you a bit there (or, to save your bacon in the woods).
This is a great dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart (with two Bluetooth Smart connections) chest strap that you'll often find me using as a reference strap in heart rate sensor testing. We only tend to see deals on it around Black Friday, always topping out around 20%.
If you're looking for a good solid high-quality strap, that does both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, for a reasonable price...look no further than the Polar H9
These are the main gels I use when I don't need the bigger 90g ones. So for example doing something a bit shorter where I don't want to carry the bigger 90g packs (mainly running). Note: Precision Fuel & Hydration is a DC Rainmaker partner
Precision Fuel & Hydration PF90 Energy Gels 10pkg - 15% OFF
I primarily use these 90g packs on all my adventures, roughly doing 90g/hour for cycling/trail running/hiking/etc... Note: Precision Fuel & Hydration is a DC Rainmaker partner
We have a few SONOS speakers around the house and DCR Cave (the Ikea variants at DCR Cave), but by far our favorite is the Roam, which we take outdoors into the garden during the summer, beach vacations, AirBNB's, etc... It has a battery in it, and also connects to both WiFi and Bluetooth. Love, love, love. I think the main reason I love it, is that we heavily use it in summer, so...kinda reminds me of summer.
⚡This is one of the two the high speed drives types I use to store the footage I'm actively video editing. I typically buy the 2TB and 4TB ones, and then eventually offload the footage onto a NAS array when I'm done.
Sony Alpha 7 IV Full-frame Mirrorless Camera w/ 28-70mm Zoom - $400 offThis is the main camera I use for still photography and video b-roll. I semi-recently wrote about all the photography gear I use, linked at side here.
Suunto Aqua Swimming Open-Ear Bluetooth Headphones - 22% off!
This is a very solid deal. It's got virtually all the software features of Suunto's higher-end watches (minus the app store), and just came out this past May.
While the new Suunto Vertical 2 just came out a month ago, if you wanted to stock-up on MIP-based display watches before they disappear, here's your chance. This is also the lowest price we've ever seen on the Vertical 1, which is otherwise still a very soild watch.
I have bigger Synology NAS units at the DCR Studio/Office, but I also have a smaller unit (this one) that I use to keep various piles of data here too. I like the Synology stuff, as it's generally quite dependable.
This is the go-to sales price for the NEO 2T, though has become more frequent over the past year. It's still an incredible trainer, and is the top-end non-moving trainer from Garmin/Tacx.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen to date on the Tacx NEO 3M, and finally takes it down to a semi-logical price (compared to it's competitors). This is a good buy, and obviously, given it's only a year old, I definitely don't expectany sort of new version of this anytime soon (the last NEO series unit was about 5 years between versions).
This is another very popular fan that people use for indoor training/cycling, especially due to inclusion of the remote and remote holder to clasp on your handlebars.
This simulates the up and down motion on Wahoo KICKR trainers moving your bike up and down. Also, there's virtually no product except SNAP, that Wahoo likes to put on sale more. Wouldn't be a sale around here unless this thing was discounted.
⚡ This is a very solid deal for this bike, and the lowest price to date. I actually like the KICKR BIKE SHIFT more than the higher-end KICKR BIKE V2/Pro, mainly because it's both quiter, and seems to be more resillient to issues (less complex design).
⚡This is actually the lowest price we've ever seen on the KICKR V6. Wahoo says we won't see a new top-end KICKR this fall, with them instead focusing on the new KICKR Bike Pro, KICKR CORE 2, and all their new bike computers/radar/etc...
Here’s a not-so-small smattering of all the random things that I stumbled on while doing my civic duty to find the end of the Internet:
1) Zwift Announces Mallorca April 2025 In-Person Community Event:Called ‘Zwift Community Live’, this event is being held in Mallorca and will bring in various Zwift employees, including CEO Eric Min, as well as other high-profile guests from within Zwift, and outside of Zwift. It sounds like Zwift eventually wants to grow this new annual event quite large. Obviously, that portion of the island has amazing riding, and the event is focused on outdoor riding.
2) Peloton Members get 20% off Google Fitness Devices: Of course, I’d fully suspect the Google Pixel Watch 3 will get a 20% off discount during Black Friday anyway, and the Fitbit Charge 6 got a far greater discount the last few days (see above).
3) Sony Discontinues Airpeak S1 drone: In a move that surprises exactly nobody, Sony has discontinued their drone attempt. While the drone was super interesting (theoretically) for Sony camera owners, it ultimately lagged so far behind the competitors in features, that it just wasn’t worth the effort or cost. In many ways, it was kinda like when GoPro tried to compete with DJI all those years ago (or even Skydio’s consumer drones, setting aside tracking).
4) The Pros Closet Rises Again: After auctioning off everything (that auction was crazy-pants cool full of goodness if you wanted bike stuffs), some existing employees bought out the remaining digital assets and plan to bring it back to its full glory. Disclosure: TPC sponsored various videos and FIT File podcast episodes, though, I haven’t heard from them since the closure…and frankly, they still have outstanding bills. Nonetheless, I think there’s clearly still a market for used bikes that have been professionally vetted.
5) Apple adds ability to share AirTag location with airline (or anyone): This could be super interesting, assuming airlines care to find bike boxes. As one who has an AirTag always in my bike case, and a bike case that seems to need its AirTag friend more often than not, this might be handy…again, if airlines make an effort to leverage it.
6) Breakdown of power meters from Kona 2024: Looks like this data was captured after all. Though, would love to see the exact unit numbers (quantities) to see how many users in the field had power. The shift from Garmin pedals to Favero pedals makes sense, as the market clearly shows that a solid product at roughly half the price is simply logical. Though, I’m far more surprised at the Quarq side of things 2x-3x’ing. Obviously, Quarq makes great power meters, but that’s a massive YoY jump in the field.
I find it interesting how Zwift and earlier Rouvy has acknowledged that “outdoor” cycling is a good thing and that their products can help you to enjoy or enhance your outdoor riding experience. Previously (to me anyway) it seemed the indoor cycling apps wanted nothing to do with the outdoor experience.
I guess they realize it’s better to expand their audience in any way.
Yeah, I think to a degree they all always said outdoors played a part in it, but I agree they seem to be embracing aspects of that better than in the past.
The $399 deal on Amazon Prime Days for the Epix Gen 2 was for the white titanium sapphire model with dual band GPS, not the standard. There seems to be a lot of these, as I’m seeing a number of authorized sellers offering them for under $500. Interesting, I see one seller already discounting the Fenix E at $689.
I, too remember this as being the white titanium version.
The Wayback machine: link to web.archive.org
Also matches this – the picture is of the white model, the link is to the same white titanium model, (currently at 450).
At the time, I tried for the black titanium model, and it was not on sale at the time – nor is it now.
It was the Apple Watch Ultra that was the black titanium model.
Since I missed out on it, I’m kind of bummed that it’s now an extra $50 higher, and that none of the other models appear to be on sale again. :(
As for Amazon doing Amazon changing the price…I suspect that’s what keeps getting you back to Amazon’s page to buy some kitchen spatula you didn’t think you needed till Amazon suggested it.
Sure, I recognize that it’s a bit of a ploy to upsell, but it seem counter to the whole “be stably priced so sellers don’t have to deal with credits and returns” that you mention at the top.
I guess maybe I can’t tell the difference between the seller deal and the Amazon deal, but it seems like thrash either way.
Mallorca…, Mallorca…, where have I heard that place name recently?… 🤔 😉
Interesting news about TPC. Looking at the ungodly amount of stuff in that auction my initial thought is no wonder they went out of biz. And the level of “investment” debt (~$80M!) for a “used bike reseller” is bonkers.
I’m not thrilled about TPC returning. Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham. And some people made a lot of money gobbling up used bikes to flip to TPC at absurd prices, and then TPC jacked them up even more. It’s difficult to say the average bike user really benefitted. And the statement in the article that their new attempt at a dealer trade-in program “provides value to dealer” suggests dealers will be paid more, which means more markup for end buyer.
I don’t see how wholesale commercialization of the used bike market into corporate hands is a good thing for the average cyclist. I think anyone shopping for a used bike in local markets knows firsthand the effect it had. But it will be interesting to see how v2 unfolds.
Having been to their facility a few times, they definitely had a lot of stuff. But essentially you have to divide that into two buckets:
A) Typical bike shop repair bench stuff
B) Stuff they were trying to sell to consumers (e.g. parts/etc…)
For the bike shop repair bits, that was all pretty much normal stuff to be expected for having dozens of high end bike mechanics on staff servicing boatloads of high-end bikes (since, most of these were high-end bikes). So that’s not really what got them in trouble.
The warehouse space was massive, obviously, and certainly, that contributed a lot. Looking at similar space costs in the area, for 265,000sq ft, we’re talking the $3M/year range. Which is nuts.
“Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham”
Not sure about that, but certainly not what I saw when I visited there. In fact, their processes were far beyond what you’d see at most bike shops. Obviously, you’re going to see exceptions at either end of the bike shop spectrum, but on the whole, I’d say the servicing level of TPC was beyond that of your average LBS.
Again though, the ‘problem’ was the prices they were willing to buy bikes at wasn’t going to make money once they accounted for how much money they put into bikes. That’s the piece most people didn’t really understand. TPC didn’t just wash the bike, add some lube, and call it done. They almost always swapped out well-used parts/etc… to increase the resale value. That costed real money, as they were almost always brand-new parts. And then ultimately, the cost the final consumer bought for it, just didn’t leave a ton of margin.
There’s still absolutely a huge market for this. After all, TPC was a tiny drop in the bucket for used bike sales in the US. At roughly 1,000/bikes in inventory at any point in time, we’re only talking taking 20/bikes per US state. That’s nothing. A few bike shops in a random town are going to have 2-4 bikes each on-hand that might be lightly used.
Of course, as always, whenever you add VC or private equity, things often go wrong…and ultimately, that’s what happened here s well. Remember, TPC was around for like 20 years.
>>”“Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham””
>”Not sure about that, but certainly not what I saw when I visited there. In fact, their processes were far beyond what you’d see at most bike shops. Obviously, you’re going to see exceptions at either end of the bike shop spectrum, but on the whole, I’d say the servicing level of TPC was beyond that of your average LBS.”
I’m just going by some of the many threads I read after the closure news broke, particularly on reddit (sent you a link to one back then). Obviously take with a grain of salt but there certainly seems to be enough there from insiders and especially customers that all was not well, moreso in recent years.
>”Of course, as always, whenever you add VC or private equity, things often go wrong…and ultimately, that’s what happened here s well.”
^^^ This. Surfaces in those threads a lot.
Don’t get me wrong, I was really excited when I first discovered TPC (thru your coverage actually) and I checked their listings regularly. One of the biggest appeals was the claimed verification of carbon frames, which is always a big hesitation with used bikes (and let’s be honest they leveraged that as part of their value pitch). I communicated directly with them about their inspection methods, the equipment they used, their damage detection rates, etc. and was considering sending my frame there because proper NDT inspection services are really hard to find. (Theirs wasn’t terrifically sophisticated, but certainly better than tapping a coin. And when they were closing I considered offering to buy their NDT equipment…, it sold in the auction.)
But for purchasing a bike, the value just wasn’t there, and no surprise with buying up used bikes at insanely inflated prices and then marking them up even more. Up until the closure “sale” hit I was still seeing prices above original sale prices.
A service needs to offer real value for bike buyers first and foremost, and not just value to investors. (And that value can’t just be “we offer bikes you can’t find locally… because we bought those up at inflated prices”.) They would need to up their inspection game, address the surprising complaints (at least from the most recent years), and the price distortion. Yes that means no longer throwing thousands at your 10-yr old tradein you found in your uncle’s garage, sorry everyone lol. But that also translates into more appropriate market pricing that reflects the actual value they add to the bike for the buyer.
I do want to see something like this succeed, provided it *increases* options in the used market, not reduces them in favour of commercial profit.
I suspect they have quite of bit of reputational / confidence repair to do now as well. Will be interesting to see if they keep the name.
Yeah, it’s always hard to tell with the internet, but I’d say that short of pile-on type scenarios, I heard virtually no negative feedback on TPC. Actually, literally none came into my inbox that I can remember.
As for the naming, I agree, but for different reasons. I don’t think TPC as a name helped at all. The change from “The Pros Closet” to TPC I think is actually a part of the failure. So much so that I always kept a graphic I made myself that had both “TPC” and “The Pros Closet” stacked atop each other.
Nobody except industry bike geeks knows what the heck TPC is. It’s just three random letters. The Pros Closet at least brought in some intrigue, enough for people to click on. And the name of the game in marketing is getting people to click. If people see TPC and can’t possibly see how a TLA is going to have reputable bike stuff, then they won’t click.
Please do a better power meter stats page as that linked page is terrible. A graph that seems to compare different years but also swaps and compare women’s for one year and men the other.
Then a pointless pie chart (all pie charts are terrible. This is more terrible).
And.. no, I just don’t trust it having looked at it
Generally speaking, yes. About the only exception being:
A) You plan to purchase the Wahoo KICKR CLIMB (only compatible with CORE)
B) You didn’t pre-order and need the trainer immediately (since JetBlack Victory timeline for newly placed orders is like late December I think now).
Hey Ray,
Not sure if you have seen that Zwift are offering 10% off the ride, kickr core and the bundle with code CYCLINGZ10 for their 10 year anniversary. This is available in the UK, US and EU.
At what point do we expect the majority of Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals to stop rolling in? I’d love to make a decision earlier, but would also hate to have to deal with the changes if I should have waited a few more days.
I would guess sometime around Black Friday or Cyber Monday, and even then some of the deals might continue past that date. The small premium you pay now in the event that a price drops below a current sale price is basically an insurance fee, as some items may run out of sale inventory if the deal is good. If you are buying something reliable that you need, it’s going to last long enough that an extra $20 or $50 shouldn’t hold up your decision too much.
> In general, for most companies, if they announce sales now, won’t introduce lower prices on Black Friday for those same exact models/products, as it annoys the @#$@# out of retailers, who have to deal with price credits or returns.
It sounds like the “saving an extra 20-50” is the least likely of the things to change.
Thus why I’m asking if there’s a time range for those early deal announcements. Or if companies (like Garmin) might announce deals for some items now, and then add in other products only on Black Friday.
Garmin tends to go-live usually around this week each year, typically later in the week, but we’ll see.
Generally speaking Garmin announces all their deals as-is at this time, for the holiday season. Any subsequent deals for Black Friday specifically, are either retailer driven (if in Europe), or non-MAP deals if in the US (e.g. older products Garmin has taken off of restricted MAP pricing, and then companies can go wild). Uncle Amazon’s Epix deals fall into that category.
I don’t have an exact list of which products are on MAP (and Garmin certainly wouldn’t say it), but generally speaking it’s anything other than current gen. I believe Fenix/Epix Pro are still MAP though.
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I find it interesting how Zwift and earlier Rouvy has acknowledged that “outdoor” cycling is a good thing and that their products can help you to enjoy or enhance your outdoor riding experience. Previously (to me anyway) it seemed the indoor cycling apps wanted nothing to do with the outdoor experience.
I guess they realize it’s better to expand their audience in any way.
Yeah, I think to a degree they all always said outdoors played a part in it, but I agree they seem to be embracing aspects of that better than in the past.
The $399 deal on Amazon Prime Days for the Epix Gen 2 was for the white titanium sapphire model with dual band GPS, not the standard. There seems to be a lot of these, as I’m seeing a number of authorized sellers offering them for under $500. Interesting, I see one seller already discounting the Fenix E at $689.
Interestingly, the records I had showed it was black titanium/sapphire. Didn’t see they also offered white.
I, too remember this as being the white titanium version.
The Wayback machine: link to web.archive.org
Also matches this – the picture is of the white model, the link is to the same white titanium model, (currently at 450).
At the time, I tried for the black titanium model, and it was not on sale at the time – nor is it now.
It was the Apple Watch Ultra that was the black titanium model.
Since I missed out on it, I’m kind of bummed that it’s now an extra $50 higher, and that none of the other models appear to be on sale again. :(
Ugh, and now it’s at 500 today. I’m unclear why they can’t just leave the price alone for a bit.
Nice, internet archive for the win!
As for Amazon doing Amazon changing the price…I suspect that’s what keeps getting you back to Amazon’s page to buy some kitchen spatula you didn’t think you needed till Amazon suggested it.
Sure, I recognize that it’s a bit of a ploy to upsell, but it seem counter to the whole “be stably priced so sellers don’t have to deal with credits and returns” that you mention at the top.
I guess maybe I can’t tell the difference between the seller deal and the Amazon deal, but it seems like thrash either way.
Mallorca…, Mallorca…, where have I heard that place name recently?… 🤔 😉
Interesting news about TPC. Looking at the ungodly amount of stuff in that auction my initial thought is no wonder they went out of biz. And the level of “investment” debt (~$80M!) for a “used bike reseller” is bonkers.
I’m not thrilled about TPC returning. Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham. And some people made a lot of money gobbling up used bikes to flip to TPC at absurd prices, and then TPC jacked them up even more. It’s difficult to say the average bike user really benefitted. And the statement in the article that their new attempt at a dealer trade-in program “provides value to dealer” suggests dealers will be paid more, which means more markup for end buyer.
I don’t see how wholesale commercialization of the used bike market into corporate hands is a good thing for the average cyclist. I think anyone shopping for a used bike in local markets knows firsthand the effect it had. But it will be interesting to see how v2 unfolds.
Having been to their facility a few times, they definitely had a lot of stuff. But essentially you have to divide that into two buckets:
A) Typical bike shop repair bench stuff
B) Stuff they were trying to sell to consumers (e.g. parts/etc…)
For the bike shop repair bits, that was all pretty much normal stuff to be expected for having dozens of high end bike mechanics on staff servicing boatloads of high-end bikes (since, most of these were high-end bikes). So that’s not really what got them in trouble.
The warehouse space was massive, obviously, and certainly, that contributed a lot. Looking at similar space costs in the area, for 265,000sq ft, we’re talking the $3M/year range. Which is nuts.
“Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham”
Not sure about that, but certainly not what I saw when I visited there. In fact, their processes were far beyond what you’d see at most bike shops. Obviously, you’re going to see exceptions at either end of the bike shop spectrum, but on the whole, I’d say the servicing level of TPC was beyond that of your average LBS.
Again though, the ‘problem’ was the prices they were willing to buy bikes at wasn’t going to make money once they accounted for how much money they put into bikes. That’s the piece most people didn’t really understand. TPC didn’t just wash the bike, add some lube, and call it done. They almost always swapped out well-used parts/etc… to increase the resale value. That costed real money, as they were almost always brand-new parts. And then ultimately, the cost the final consumer bought for it, just didn’t leave a ton of margin.
There’s still absolutely a huge market for this. After all, TPC was a tiny drop in the bucket for used bike sales in the US. At roughly 1,000/bikes in inventory at any point in time, we’re only talking taking 20/bikes per US state. That’s nothing. A few bike shops in a random town are going to have 2-4 bikes each on-hand that might be lightly used.
Of course, as always, whenever you add VC or private equity, things often go wrong…and ultimately, that’s what happened here s well. Remember, TPC was around for like 20 years.
>>”“Read many insider and customer comments that their “professional vetting” of bikes was a joke/sham””
>”Not sure about that, but certainly not what I saw when I visited there. In fact, their processes were far beyond what you’d see at most bike shops. Obviously, you’re going to see exceptions at either end of the bike shop spectrum, but on the whole, I’d say the servicing level of TPC was beyond that of your average LBS.”
I’m just going by some of the many threads I read after the closure news broke, particularly on reddit (sent you a link to one back then). Obviously take with a grain of salt but there certainly seems to be enough there from insiders and especially customers that all was not well, moreso in recent years.
>”Of course, as always, whenever you add VC or private equity, things often go wrong…and ultimately, that’s what happened here s well.”
^^^ This. Surfaces in those threads a lot.
Don’t get me wrong, I was really excited when I first discovered TPC (thru your coverage actually) and I checked their listings regularly. One of the biggest appeals was the claimed verification of carbon frames, which is always a big hesitation with used bikes (and let’s be honest they leveraged that as part of their value pitch). I communicated directly with them about their inspection methods, the equipment they used, their damage detection rates, etc. and was considering sending my frame there because proper NDT inspection services are really hard to find. (Theirs wasn’t terrifically sophisticated, but certainly better than tapping a coin. And when they were closing I considered offering to buy their NDT equipment…, it sold in the auction.)
But for purchasing a bike, the value just wasn’t there, and no surprise with buying up used bikes at insanely inflated prices and then marking them up even more. Up until the closure “sale” hit I was still seeing prices above original sale prices.
A service needs to offer real value for bike buyers first and foremost, and not just value to investors. (And that value can’t just be “we offer bikes you can’t find locally… because we bought those up at inflated prices”.) They would need to up their inspection game, address the surprising complaints (at least from the most recent years), and the price distortion. Yes that means no longer throwing thousands at your 10-yr old tradein you found in your uncle’s garage, sorry everyone lol. But that also translates into more appropriate market pricing that reflects the actual value they add to the bike for the buyer.
I do want to see something like this succeed, provided it *increases* options in the used market, not reduces them in favour of commercial profit.
I suspect they have quite of bit of reputational / confidence repair to do now as well. Will be interesting to see if they keep the name.
Yeah, it’s always hard to tell with the internet, but I’d say that short of pile-on type scenarios, I heard virtually no negative feedback on TPC. Actually, literally none came into my inbox that I can remember.
As for the naming, I agree, but for different reasons. I don’t think TPC as a name helped at all. The change from “The Pros Closet” to TPC I think is actually a part of the failure. So much so that I always kept a graphic I made myself that had both “TPC” and “The Pros Closet” stacked atop each other.
Nobody except industry bike geeks knows what the heck TPC is. It’s just three random letters. The Pros Closet at least brought in some intrigue, enough for people to click on. And the name of the game in marketing is getting people to click. If people see TPC and can’t possibly see how a TLA is going to have reputable bike stuff, then they won’t click.
Oh wow I didn’t even realize they were using “TPC” as the name! I always called it “The Pros’ Closet” but TPC for short.
Please do a better power meter stats page as that linked page is terrible. A graph that seems to compare different years but also swaps and compare women’s for one year and men the other.
Then a pointless pie chart (all pie charts are terrible. This is more terrible).
And.. no, I just don’t trust it having looked at it
Unfortunately as noted, they don’t list the exact numbers as was usually the case in past years (allowing me more flexibility/analysis potential).
I had assumed that they were comparing Nice 2023 to Kona 2024, but, if not, yeah, that would explain the wild swings.
For a first time smart trainer purchaser, would you recommend the JB Victory over the Kickr Core with Zwift Play bundle?
Generally speaking, yes. About the only exception being:
A) You plan to purchase the Wahoo KICKR CLIMB (only compatible with CORE)
B) You didn’t pre-order and need the trainer immediately (since JetBlack Victory timeline for newly placed orders is like late December I think now).
Hey Ray,
Not sure if you have seen that Zwift are offering 10% off the ride, kickr core and the bundle with code CYCLINGZ10 for their 10 year anniversary. This is available in the UK, US and EU.
At what point do we expect the majority of Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals to stop rolling in? I’d love to make a decision earlier, but would also hate to have to deal with the changes if I should have waited a few more days.
I would guess sometime around Black Friday or Cyber Monday, and even then some of the deals might continue past that date. The small premium you pay now in the event that a price drops below a current sale price is basically an insurance fee, as some items may run out of sale inventory if the deal is good. If you are buying something reliable that you need, it’s going to last long enough that an extra $20 or $50 shouldn’t hold up your decision too much.
I’m specifically referring to Ray’s comment:
> In general, for most companies, if they announce sales now, won’t introduce lower prices on Black Friday for those same exact models/products, as it annoys the @#$@# out of retailers, who have to deal with price credits or returns.
It sounds like the “saving an extra 20-50” is the least likely of the things to change.
Thus why I’m asking if there’s a time range for those early deal announcements. Or if companies (like Garmin) might announce deals for some items now, and then add in other products only on Black Friday.
Garmin tends to go-live usually around this week each year, typically later in the week, but we’ll see.
Generally speaking Garmin announces all their deals as-is at this time, for the holiday season. Any subsequent deals for Black Friday specifically, are either retailer driven (if in Europe), or non-MAP deals if in the US (e.g. older products Garmin has taken off of restricted MAP pricing, and then companies can go wild). Uncle Amazon’s Epix deals fall into that category.
I don’t have an exact list of which products are on MAP (and Garmin certainly wouldn’t say it), but generally speaking it’s anything other than current gen. I believe Fenix/Epix Pro are still MAP though.
Great, thanks! That makes a lot of sense, and was seeing pricing for the Epix/Fenix 7 Pro as pretty stable vs the previous models.
Also, feel free to the duplicate message below (about the $500 price for the Epix) that got double-sent.
Ugh, and now it’s at 500 today. I’m unclear why they can’t just leave the price alone for a bit.