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First Look: The IQ2 149€ Power Meter

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(Note: Please, please, please read the entire post before ‘investing’. Especially my concerns in the last two full sections…not paragraphs, sections.)

As each year passes, we continue to see drops in power meter prices.  One only needs to look at my recent post on power meter pricing to see these plainly obvious pricing trends (in picture-graph format no less!).  Which doesn’t mean power meters are getting more inaccurate, nor does it mean there’s a race to the bottom.  In fact, power meters have never been more accurate (on the whole) than now. The technology of power meters a decade ago can’t do much of what today’s power meters do – for example, accurate temperature compensation, or high-speed data analytics.  Neither of which are reserved for only the most expensive units either.

Still, there continues to be progress made on lowering the barrier to entry in the power meter world.  And in the case of today, that’s coming from a Dutch company called IQ2, and their power meter that just launched on Kickstarter.

Of course – if you’re a regular around here you know I have a (perhaps unhealthy) fascination with digging into crowdfunded power meter projects.  But my basis is simple: Show me the goods.

Specifically, I generally take the approach with power meters that unless I can touch and feel it in my hands, it’s not real. Same goes for data too – if I can’t see actual data with my own eyes…it’s probably not baked yet.

So where does IQ2 fit in that paradigm? Well, I went for a 50KM bike ride to find out.

But first, if text isn’t your thing – then this video explains it all nice and quickly (even including the full installation):

Ok, on with the text.

The Technology:

In many ways, the IQ2 power meter is a blend of power meter concepts we’ve seen before. It’s part Limits and part Vector/WatTeam.  By that, I mean that it uses a small pedal spacer akin to Limits, while shifting the communications/battery portion to an attached ‘pod’ that aligns next to your crank arm (like WatTeam or Vector 1/2).  Of course, other companies have used pods previously – including Polar and Look.  IQ2’s pod is powered by a standard CR2032 coin cell battery used by countless others. Battery life’s minimum floor is 200 hours, but they’re hoping for 250-300hrs.

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IQ2 notes that by shifting to a wholly enclosed pod design they significantly minimize the number of variables to deal with, in comparison to a glued on crank arm design (à la Stages/4iiii/Avio/etc…). And they’re right. Any of those companies will tell you that one of the biggest challenges is dealing with variances in crank arm manufacturing, especially for carbon designs.  Whereas with a totally encapsulated pod design like IQ2 has, they completely remove any crank arm uniqueness aspects from the equation. Mostly.

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The portion they’ll still have to deal with is crank arm thickness and depth variances.  This was an area that Garmin ultimately had to have two separate SKU’s for their original Vector system to accommodate for. I don’t believe IQ2 will end up with that situation, but they will likely end up with having to include additional spacers (as Garmin does for Vector 3), to accommodate thinner crank arms.  This would have the negative impact of further increasing q-factor (which we’ll get to in a moment).

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The IQ2 power meter can be purchased either in a single-leg or dual leg configuration, like most dual systems on the market today.  When purchasing single-leg you can even select whether that’s left or right you want.  As with others, it simply doubles your single leg power to get total power.  If you purchase the dual-leg system then it comes with two sets of sensors, one for each side.

Installation of the system is pretty simple.  You’ll start by inserting into your crank arm an interior pedal adapter of sorts. This takes about 8-10 seconds using the small tool provided. This effectively decreases the width of the pedal attachment point in the crank arm. You can see below (right) that it doesn’t quite look like a normal pedal from the backside.

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Next, you’ll attach your pedal to the IQ2 pod using a pedal wrench (before attaching anything to the bike).  The pod is inclusive of the spacer.  This takes about 10-12 seconds because of the pedal wrench bit:

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And finally, you’ll attach your pod/pedal combo dish to the crank arm and insert a bolt through the back using a hex wrench:

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Entire installation time – 60 seconds including brief breaks to rest. This is quite a bit cleaner than the Limits installation was, though it does draw on some of the same overall concepts.

At this point you’ll notice the obvious: The entire setup has bumped out your pedals away from the crank arm.  It’s done that 16mm on each side. In most cycling circles, that’d be considered ‘a crapton’.

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This increase in distance is part of what’s known as your q-factor. Or essentially the distance between the pedal attachment points on both sides of the bike. Note above how the silver pod in between the pedal and the crank arm extends your stance outwards .

Since Limits came aboard, there’s been plenty of debates about q-factor (since that increased it as well). Most of these debates overlook the most basic thing: If you have multiple types of bikes, your q-factor already varies significantly. For example, a road bike has a q-factor generally of ~150mm, while a mountain bike has a q-factor of 170mm.  Jump on that WattBike?  It’s got a q-factor of 173 but the Atom is 160.  But wait, your gym spin bike has a different q-factor, and that’ll vary by brands and models too.  Schwinn’s AC Performance is 170mm, while Keiser’s M3 is 197mm. Thus, if you switch bikes – then things are already changing.

Though, IQ2 does seem to have an answer for this. They’re looking to simply produce/OEM pedal spindles for a few of the major brands, with a shorter length – thus putting you back to the original q-factor. They don’t have this ready for their Kickstarter campaign, but they did have some prototypes of it available when I visited them.  Obviously, there could be downsides with this approach, but that’s probably a different discussion for a different day.

Next, when it comes to the tech side of things, the unit will broadcast dual ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, like virtually every other power meter on the market today.  It does this using the same chipsets that most others do, a Nordic nRF51 communications stack.  It’ll broadcast power and cadence like most power meters. Though other extended metrics aren’t quite yet announced.

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The system is designed to be portable and easily moveable between bikes. Though, every non-crank based power meter has stated that in their marketing campaigns for years, and very rarely has it actually been true. Sure, they’ve been portable, but not as easily swappable as something you’d do every day (a somewhat often request I hear). Looking at the structure of this design, I wouldn’t have any concerns swapping it every few weeks between bikes, but like most threaded gizmos, I wouldn’t want to do it every week between bikes.

There’s simply too much possibility of getting sand or grit into the threads and then deforming the threads. Especially since there are three sets of threads to consider here (versus one on a single pedal).  This recommendation is no different than when I look at pedal based power meters like Garmin Vector or PowerTap P1. There’s eventually going to be a day when you’re in a rush and don’t catch those few grains of sand because the light was bad that day and everything goes to crap.

On the bright side, with the planned pricing of IQ2 – you can probably afford to outfit multiple bikes more easily than Vector 3 (which costs 4 times the price).

Finally – what about stated accuracy? Well, that’s kinda a funny one. Nowhere on their Kickstarter page is it mentioned, so I asked and didn’t exactly get an answer initially. Instead, I got a question back: “What do you want it to be?”.

Founder Keesjan Klant went on to explain that based on the specific strain gauges they’re using that they had an accuracy tolerance well under +/-0.1%.  And that’s true if you were looking at purely the strain gauge itself (inclusive of temperature shifts). Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as that. One also has to account for aspects like accelerometers and their associated algorithms too.  Ultimately, Keesjan stated that their goal was a system which was ‘under +/-1.0%’, but that it would depend on getting production units tested.

A Test Ride:

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Now remember when I said I went for a 50KM bike ride? That’s true. That was the distance between Amsterdam and Wassenaar, where I rode to meet with the founder of IQ2.  It was unfortunately not however the distance I rode with an IQ2 unit.

See – at this stage, no production-sized IQ2 units have been outside for a ride yet and transmitted power data to a computer.  Thus, neither I nor they have any data from that.  They have put together some larger prototype units as shown in their Kickstarter campaign (and a screenshot of which is below), but I wasn’t able to ride that either.

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Compounding things – the company isn’t releasing any data at this point. You heard that correct, no power data at all.  Instead, they prefer to do that with production models down the road.

Now, some have criticized me for ‘requiring’ companies show goods and prototypes at an early stage. And that’s true. But there’s also a simple reality to that requirement. In exchange for the visibility a company gets here, I need to validate it’s not vaporware.  After all, the reason people come here is to get my opinion on whether a product is viable or worth your cash.  And there’s simply no way I can do that unless I’ve seen the product first-hand.  Photos won’t do it justice, nor a phone call.

So, there was no ride with the IQ2.  But I did ride home. Or most of the way home anyway until I ran out of light and ended up using the excellent Dutch railway system for the remainder.

Going Forward:

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Meeting with the founder Keesjan Klant was without question interesting.  He’s part Elon Musk and part Dr. Emmett Brown from Back To the Future. I have zero question in my mind he’ll be able to pull this off. He and his team are certainly smart enough – and he’s got a long resume of far greater and more complex engineering projects to work from.

But, like Elon Musk, I suspect he’s underestimating the difficulties in this product and the timelines involved.  There’s a long trail of companies that have tried and failed to develop power meters.  And many that have succeeded. And every…single…one of them has had delays and complexities along the way (yes, even SRM). No matter the money invested (Garmin), or the time in the industry (PowerTap or Quarq). Making power meters is far more difficult than people realize.

Like Elon – he’ll get there, and the product will likely be great in the end.  But, it probably just won’t happen when you think it will.  On the bright side, a power meter is generally considered easier than re-landing rockets on a floating platform in the ocean.

So the real question is whether or not you put out the money now for a unit. For that, I turn to my general rule on crowd funded campaigns: Expect to lose your money and get nothing. Thus, your expectations are such that anything above and beyond that is a success. Kinda like investing in crypto currencies such as Bitcoin – treat it all like money in Vegas.

My money would say that IQ2 will succeed in a power meter, that they’ll probably deliver next spring (2019).  If/when they do that with an accurate unit, they’ll notably shift the market pricing at the same time.  Competitive pressure doesn’t occur in this market until a new entrant actually ships an accurate product.

When it comes to the underlying technology in their unit – it all sounds great from a hardware standpoint, but none of it will matter without corresponding software to account for all of the environmental and human variables that have caused so many others to stumble.

So yes – if you’ve got 149€ to spare (or 199€ for the dual-leg) and don’t need a power meter this year – then give the wheel of Kickstarter fortune a spin.  It might just pay off.  But, if you’re looking for something to train and race in 2018, then consider a product already on the market today.

With that – thanks for reading!

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102 Comments

  1. Keith Wakeham

    Like with that other one that went in between the pedal…. Not sure how it’ll compensate for the pedal offset. All the spindle based sensor units (vector and Look and assioma) use two strain gages offset a distance between them to create a differential bending beam, and then have multiple around for sensitivity / angle compensation. So minimum of 4 needed, 8 for angle, and 16 for sensitivity and angle as 4 sensors. It’s hard to believe this would have that necessary offset for two gages in that space, thus it’ll end up having the same issues as that other one I suspect – Limits or whatever. I do find it interesting they are using the same ADC (ADS1247) I used in my original Accuity design 5+ years ago.

    • salmat

      Your are completely right ! It is impossible to measure a force with only one measuring point in the axis direction; they are just measuring a torque between pedal and crank arm, so the force, and than the power precision should not be better than 20% ? and depending on the pedal offset and the way of pedalling : sitting, standing …
      Regarding what we really see working, to me it seems they have a fairly nice mechanical prototype, but the rest … proto of a data logger on a strain gage Wheatstone bridge, a configuring phone application I am not even sure is connected to anything ? Even the cadence early prototype seems to use a magnet (the product is not supposed tu have one on the frame, is supposed to use accelerometers)!
      If they had a usable proto, they would have showed it ! I am nearly sure they do not have any …

      How do you know they are using à ADS1247 ? You have seem it on photos ?

    • salmat

      For information in the kickstarter comments :

      “””””””””””
      Keesjan Klant Creator 1 day ago

      What we have learned from previous power meter projects is that the hardest part is not to make a working prototype, but to mass-produce power meters. We analyzed why it is so difficult to mass-produce a power meter, and our conclusion is the inconsistency of the current glued strain gauges.
      Every power meter with a glued strain gauge has different characteristics that needs extensive calibration and complex software.
      With this knowledge, we did things different, we started our design from the end to the start and found a way to make every power meter exactly the same in mass production. The solutions is a laser trimmed thin film deposited strain gauge that is molecular bonded to our titanium adapter. This thin film strain gauge is, compared to normal strain gauges, immune to temperature changes and has exactly the same linearity, every power meter again.
      We think it is not fair to give data of our prototype and show the world we can build a prototype that works, instead of showing the world we can mass-produce a power meter that is accurate in every condition and affordable for every cyclist.
      When the first mass production power meters are produced, we certainly give accuracy data to our backers. We hope you have just as much trust in our new approach as we have!
      In addition, we cannot thank you enough for your support, without your support we were not able to give every cyclist the opportunity to ride with a power meter.
      “””””””””””

      => so there is not any usable prototype …

    • Michal

      From what I understand they’re not measuring strain on the spindle outside of the crank but on the insert/adapter which is located in fixed position inside the crank arm pedal thread (basically at the end of the spindle, inside the crank arm). Hence compensating for pedal offset is not necessary.

    • Salmat

      I am not sure I understand all you said ?
      For power, we need torque in the centre of rotation (bottom bracket), it is why it is possible directly measure torque on crank arm … (if your are not where is applied the force to the crank arm : the pedal thread/spindle).
      It is why on the pedal spindle it is needed to measure the perpendicular force, and calculate the torque with the length of the crank. But what I understand is they only measure torque on spindle (witch is depending were and how is applied force), and thus need to estimate perpendicular force…
      From what I have seen, all precise pedals are measuring 2 torques to have force.

    • Michal

      The thing is they don’t really measure it on the spindle. Technically measuring point is in the crank arm (adapter/insert with strain gauges is inside the crank arm pedal thread which is inside the crank arm, not outside of it like the rest of the spindle).

    • Salmat

      On drawings/plans/photos I see they are on a free ring between : the thread for the pedal, and the part in the the crank arm. It seems logical, as bending would be dependent of other pats in front of the threads.
      Were did you see it was inside ?

    • Michal Wozniak

      I’ve seen they mentioned it on their kickstarter page in a discussion with backers. Now I’ve seen photos where in fact strain gauge is outside of the crank but exactly on the point where screwed in pedal thread ends.

  2. HdB

    So tempted, but given the Limits fiasco (last ‘communication’ was Nov 2017) I am worried this will go the same way.
    At least, unlike the Limits Indiegogo campaign, you can cancel your pledge before the campaign ends, if they have no numbers to show by then.

    • HdB

      I am also unsure whether these pods are compatible with pedals that only use a hex wrench, for example my current Look Keo Max pedals – is there a hole through the adapter to attach the pod and pedal?

    • Peter Kundrat

      I believe in KS you can cancel, until the campain has reached its goal.

    • On KS you can cancel your pledge at any time until the campaign is finished.

    • HdB

      I know, and I plan on doing just that if I have too many doubts in the last few hours of the campaign.
      200 Euros for dual-sided is way cheaper than anything else I can get here (less than half the cost of Powertap P1S pedals, for example), BUT… I can get them and they have been proven to work.
      29 days to come up with believable data. No pressure 😉

  3. I am mostly looking for an option to use mountain bike pedals with an easy to install power-meter.

    I just switched to keo cleats on my road bike because of the Powertap P1. I was quite happy with my SPDs before that.

  4. John

    It looks like a refined Limits powermeter.
    Pros: 199€ for the dual-leg it’s a real deal! It’s compatible with any road/mtb pedal and it’s easily moveable.
    Cons: 16mm q-factor increase, no power data at this moment, have to wait 1 year.
    I think I’m going to wait until they show accurate power data.

  5. ReHMn

    But the 16 mm or 1,6 cm attachment distance/thickness to the side can cause significant leg positioning issues… And I can imagine, that in some cases the cleat adjustment won’t solve this issue.
    On the other hand, the benefit can be on triathlon races in T1, in a combination of flat pedal with cage and running shoes. Because running shoes are wider then road shoes…

  6. Doug

    On the maxim of 95% is easy, the last 5% is the killer – it feels like these guys are 70%?

  7. Neil Jones

    I think when it comes to Q-factor, users fit in to one of four groups:

    Never heard of it
    Know what it is but not bothered about it
    Know what it is and like to think it’s a significant factor in their cycling
    Know what it is and it actually is a significant factor in their cycling

    I’d suggest that the last group is pretty small and doesn’t have to worry about choosing and buying PMs, especially low-cost ones.

    • Scott E

      True, and interesting that my schooling on Q factor comes from DCR University.

      Specific leg/knee/ankle/hip injuries can be a significant bike fitting Q factor, and of course it is a smaller segment of the population. There too there are other power meters that has zero Q impact.

      Still, glad to see the first two groups helping to pull down power meter prices.

  8. m1588

    “When purchasing single-leg you can even select whether that’s left or right you want.”
    does that mean that the dual-leg could be split to one left and one right single leg?

    • Doug H

      I also have this question. It might be interesting. You’re essentially buying a two-pack of single leg meters for a little more than the cost of one. Also wondering if they could be mixed. I have a Stages left crank already. Could I put the right side one on that bike and get a dual-leg system and then put the left one on another bike?

    • IvanDobski

      I’ve pledged for the L&R package and asked this very question – I don’t think it will be possible out of the box though. Looking at the bundles you can choose an L or an R not just a generic single sided option which suggests that they’re different somehow. They could be daisy chained together from a broadcasting point of view I suppose but could it be more likely to do with thread direction on the adaptors?

    • IvanDobski

      Just realised we were talking at cross purposes – I was referring to using the right pod from the dual bundle on the left pedal of a second bike not using the left on one and the right on the second. I’m not sure how good an idea this would be though, would it not introduce further inaccuracies when comparing, say, your race and training bikes? If you’ve a 52/48 L/R split then that’ll be quite a significant difference – 2×52% v 2×48% of your total?

    • Mike Richie

      They talk about a set of a left and a right unit as if they are separable, technically does not seem to be any reason they couldn’t be used on 2 bikes. Given the ease with which they can be moved, it would be easy enough to use on one bike to check your left right balance, then use them on two different bikes. Hopefully we will get a difinitive answer.

    • Jon

      Left and right pedals have different thread directions, so there’d be no way to put a right pedal unit on the left.

  9. Yup. After the LIMITS debacle I will say that they are apparently being far more honest about where they are. Having said that, I’ll quite happily crowdfund a campaign to take a product from prototype to production, I’m no longer interested in crowdfunding things from idea to working prototype. Right now it looks like they have a non-working mockup if its never actually left the lab, and that’s just not enough.

  10. Getting in a price-range where it would difficult to justify not getting one 🙂

    • Dan

      199€($243) for Dual Leg, so about $150 less than Watteam Powerbeats.

      Of course this is currently non-existent, and who knows what their actual pricing will be. Is it worth $150 and 5 months to bet on possible vaporware?

      Hope it isn’t vaporware, because it would probably force other manufacturers to lower their prices.

  11. Jhs

    Very appealing but it could turn into another “Limits” nightmare. This will be inside my head for some days tough!

  12. Tim

    I would suggest you pledge at the lowest price, then give them 30 days to show some data. If not, withdraw your pledge.

    • Mike Richie

      The left or right only are not an early bird special (no limit). The combo of L & R is only about $60 more, if early bird. Although it’s moving pretty quickly. You can still withdraw your pledge 😉

  13. prefersdirt

    Looks like this could be an option for MTBing, provided as HdB earlier questioned, they work with hex wrenched pedals. If I had the $250ish to spare, I would be on this. Especially with the ability to give 30 days to show data and hear Ray’s thoughts.

  14. okrunner

    Well, I was far more hopeful than this. Supposedly they were releasing a GCN youtube release special. Don’t see it. Strange these guys knew the rules, “get Ray on board”. And yet, no power data whatsoever. So, it appears GCN won’t run their spectacular release video and Ray is not on board. Pretty much sums it up for me.

    That said, I was already very skeptical. I understand the purpose of kickstarter for new ideas from small unfunded folks. But here, these guys have significant means at their disposal. Why a kickstarter then? Why not just bring it to market? Now we learn they built a dummy shell but don’t have the tech to put the works inside it. That’s false advertising folks. That would be fraudulent and a crime in any other market. I’ll sell you sum beach front property here in Oklahoma, it looks just like Hawaii. I’ll send you pictures, I promise.

  15. Michael Smith

    Love you Ray, but I am a little surprised you would give another ultra low cost powermeter the “First Look” treatment without any numbers whatsoever. Undoubtedly many folks will (mistakenly) view this video as a pseudo endorsement and give them money. When a product is really all about the numbers/software, not sure it makes sense to even give them a First Look until you see at least a little evidence that indicates it has a chance of being successful. I say this with peace and love!

    • Matt B

      I suspect it’s less Ray wanting to do a first look, and more not being able to put up with the volume of reader requests on a product people know is being made right on his doorstep, especially when there is a Kickstarter deadline involved. Easier to throw up one post than answer hundreds of emails!

    • Mike Richie

      +1, it may come back to bite him, but I’m glad he gave us the heads up.

    • Perhaps there’s some confusion, though honestly I can’t think how someone who read through this post would arrive at the conclusion that they’ll hit their timelines. I explicitly say that, including the following:

      “Compounding things – the company isn’t releasing any data at this point. You heard that correct, no power data at all. Instead, they prefer to do that with production models down the road.”

      “My money would say that IQ2 will succeed in a power meter, that they’ll probably deliver next spring (2019).”

      “But, like Elon Musk, I suspect he’s underestimating the difficulties in this product and the timelines involved. There’s a long trail of companies that have tried and failed to develop power meters.”

      “When it comes to the underlying technology in their unit – it all sounds great from a hardware standpoint, but none of it will matter without corresponding software to account for all of the environmental and human variables that have caused so many others to stumble.”

      Note, these are roughly my definitions for post categories:

      First Look: Brief hands-on time in a non-active/ride setting. This includes trade shows and the like where I can’t do my own thing and take it for a workout/etc.
      Hands-on: Where I can go and do my own thing, but the product isn’t ready for review yet (meaning, beta/etc…)
      In-Depth Review: Final product hardware/software, me doing my own thing.

      It’s not a perfect definition thing, but by and large it’s worked fairly well. I was super clear in both the post and the video that a ride didn’t happen and that I was disappointed about that.

      Ultimately, I’m trying to be fair and present both sides of any product I touch. As I noted earlier in this comment, I think my piece is super clear on the pitfalls here. In fact, all but the first paragraph of my entire summary section is basically saying be incredibly careful.

    • okrunner

      I think you were abundantly clear. Folks, take notes from Ray’s sentences: No power data, they might succeed a year after they say they will, they don’t entirely understand what they are doing, and they don’t have the software and this will cause them to fail like many others. Pretty clear to me.

  16. Mike Richie

    So, I went ahead and backed this. Not only is the price where I think power meters need to be, the described production process seems to eliminate a lot of the variances that need to be compensated for in other systems. The Kickstarter campaign says:
    “Our thin film strain gauge is of an entirely different caliber. Instead of being hand-glued, it requires no human interaction because it is directly deposited on the surface of the part, molecularly bonded and trimmed by laser. All our strain gauges are exactly the same when they come out the production process. It’s a revolutionary technology used in situations with zero error tolerance, such as in medical, military and harsh environments.”
    Ray (or anyone else), have you heard of this before? Or know if it has been used on power meters before. Seems to make sense, if it is real. (If not – I’d like to know, before the campaign completes)

    • It’s true in comparison to something like a Stages/4iii/etc that are glued onto a crank arm, but that’s different from how someone like Vector or the PowerTap P1 – which are fully automated.

      Said differently: It doesn’t really matter in the real world. And since they haven’t shown any outside data, we don’t really know where they stand there.

  17. Spencer Oswald

    I am excited to see how this product pans out. I have been hoping to get a power meter for awhile now but the prices have been to high. I also backed it but will wait to see how the accuracy is and cancel if it is turning into another Limits and of course getting the approval of my wife which may be a challenge 🙂

  18. Jason

    Hey Ray, as always thanks for the in depth review! I currently have Garmin Vector 2 left pedal, would I be able to buy a right legal by IQ2 and see dial power meter results on my Garmin/in Garmin connect? I have a Fenix 5x.

    • okrunner

      Jason,
      I think it’s pretty common knowledge that you cannot connect two power meters, two cadence monitors, two heart rate monitors, etc. to one head unit at the same time. I know your not the first to ask this or something similar but I’m a little dumbfounded by these questions as both units would have their own separate bluetooth and/or ant+ ids/streams. Kindalike, you can’t listen to two radio broadcasts from the same radio at the same time. Just one channel at a time. If I understand it correctly, dual power meters talk to each other and transmit only one stream to the head unit. And, they have to be programmed to talk to each other, i.e. same manufacturer.

    • Fwiw – there is actually a Connect IQ app that can plot both on Garmin Connect:

      link to apps.garmin.com

      I’ve been using/testing it a bit lately, but it has some minor bugs/limitations that doesn’t allow it to connect to six-digit ANT+ ID’s, so I can’t connect to my Vector 3 unit (which happens to be six digits, other folks may be 5 or less digits).

      Note that as OKRunner said however, it doesn’t ‘merge’ the data into one stream, instead, just plots two piles of it. Unfortunately, there is no standard for dual-sided units to talk between two halfs.

    • okrunner

      Thanks Ray! I learn something new everyday here. However, sadly, I don’t own one of the compatible devices.

  19. Jason

    Appreciate the response okrunner, but could have done it without the condescending tone. It’s clearly not common knowledge to everyone, or people wouldn’t keep asking it. Sorry I can’t keep up with every comment on the site.

    • okrunner

      Sorry if I cam across condescending. I know everyone here is to obtain knowledge surrounding fun/sports. Please don’t take me too seriously. Sorry again.

  20. Jonathan

    I backed the dual package. I already use the PowerPod, but would like something to verify it. Im pretty patient so I would not mind waiting until 2019 or whenever. Also, I didnt have the pleasure of experiencing the Limits fiasco.

  21. Bjoern

    The project got backed. Lets see how they communicate R & D in the next 30days. They have a video on their kickstarter showing a unit mounted to a mountain bike and a road bike. They show it paring to an app and riding with it showing power data. So the prototype must be further than we know so far…Ray did they give you any info? The video is from April 8th…

    • T Corso

      Good call not to release the video on April the first 🙂

    • Mike Richie

      Yeah, that’s a little concerning. Ray’s ride was on the 11th, and he couldn’t use it yet, but they are showing videos of it working on the 8th. Something is wrong with this picture. Even if that is a prototype of how it is supposed to work, when it is actually done, they do not make that clear. It appears they are actually using a prototype to receive power data on their software. If that is not the case, they may be posting intententionally misleading videos. That has got to be against the KS rules.

    • It was slated to go live on Kickstarter last Tuesday, but got held up in a queue by Kickstarter, hence was pushed to this Tuesday.

      That initially put my visit to them only a few days prior.

      As noted in my post numerous places, I definitely have concerns about lack of access to data – both on the miniaturized variant as well as the lab variants.

    • Mike Richie

      Yes, my concern is certainly not with your post. My concern is that in the gallery, along with other photos, they have a video showing Keesjan installing what is referred to as a Design Prototype on to a Mountain Bike, configuring it with an IQ2 app on an iPhone, connecting it to the Strava iPhone app and then producing power data as the bike is ridden down the street. Unless that video is a fake, why couldn’t he have shown that to you (with whatever qualifiers necessary). The video suggests they have a functioning design prototype, producing data.

    • Yeah, I don’t know why there.

  22. Matt

    Agreed. If they had tested it outside the lab then it would be worth taking the risk. As it stands, i think this is a product that will be better when it reaches a second iteration. Good luck to them though – I hope they manage to do something different as well as bringing prices down.

  23. John Hamann

    From your review it seems like:

    1) They did not show you a working device that uses the small circuitboard and case (if it worked, wouldn’t they be testing with that?)

    2) The device with all the wires on it you did not get to ride or otherwise validate that it works–something that Kickstarter guidelines require

    3) You did not see data supporting their claims of accuracy and battery life

    4) Their founder reminds you of Elon 🙂

    Based on what you saw, what persuades you this is different from vaporware?

    • Kickstarter doesn’t require I validate it, but rather, the company has validated it. They show some of that in their video – whether or not it’s real I can’t say.

      I’d say it’s different from vaporware in that they’ve got a miniaturized design complete, which may have flaws, but that’s up to them to sort out. Keith’s very first comment in this post illustrates that they have all the core components to make something in the realm of a power meter. And their prototypes they’ve shown in the lab are collecting power data (again, we don’t have that though).

      Just like one could argue that since the final-looking design of AeroPod is just an empty shell, it’s not terribly different than this from a pure Kickstarter standpoint (since AeroPod didn’t share data on Kickstarter either).

      Of course, I’ve held and used a non-final variant of AeroPod and it’s producing something believable, so that’s a key difference.

      But I think the last two sections of this post make my thoughts pretty clear.

    • Ray, thanks for your response, and most certainly your job doesn’t include Kickstarter compliance! (though you acting in that role would increase any project’s credibility by at least ten times) 🙂

      I’m guessing that every company that has ever tried to make a power meter has correctly figured out the required core components, and also has built proof-of-concept prototypes.

      But that last 1%…many years ago I remember attending an Interbike where a very credible company, with really smart people, was demonstrating its new PM; on a test stand was their prototype, generating very believable power numbers. About 3 years later, they finally got it to market.

      Power meters are hard.

  24. Raoul

    I’ll rather say this is a pure engineering company without or missing software knowledge. When looking at the current number of backers, I believe they can invest soon into software development engineers to create a working product.

  25. Tom Long

    I’m backing it. Their Kickstarter now lists accuracy of 1% with a range of up to 2600W.

    Got to be worth a punt if you ask me.

    • Brandon Harris

      They cant put this on the kick starters website unless its true right? or is this a “goal”?

    • Like any Kickstarter project, there’s a sometimes fuzzy line between goal and current. Really no different than most non-Kickstarter projects too for that matter. Be it Garmin, Wahoo, or Apple – all tend to be ‘hopeful’ in their longer range projections for products that aren’t immediately available.

  26. Bjoern

    Over $300000 in 12h. Double their goal. I have a feel that they have a functional prototype but kept things more closed up. Production facilities are secured in UK and Netherland. With a big backing like this I wonder what the next week will bring from them. Lots of pressure until May 24th.

    • Sebo

      602,505$ and 27 days to go. let me tell you something: looking at Kickstarter I was 150% confident and convinced they have working prototype and all is missing are $ to start mass production to make it less expensive.
      Ray did awesome job in explaining he didn’t have a chance to ride with their product or even look at the data produced by their product.
      It is hard to say they if they are that dumb not to let Ray ride with their product because they simply “forgot” or they know there is serious problem to be solved and they do not have it at all.
      I’m sure if they would let Ray ride what they have and there would be small accuracy issue, he would say: good product needs some algorithm tweaking but prototype looks good and produces data. Same as in the case of AeroPod which I backed up just because of his video and actual ride with the product.
      he said I have no clue about accuracy, but here is how it works now.

    • Bjoern

      mass production has started for the titanium adapter with the strain gauge based on kickstarter and a link to their production partner. link to smdsensors.com

  27. Rodney

    For the $50 bucks difference between backing and final product, why not just wait..

  28. Alejandro

    Could you make a review comparisson with another Power Meters in the market, so you can test the accuracy of this product?

    • I’m more than happy to once I have a unit I can do so with. It doesn’t sound like that’s going to happen for some time (either by their timelines, or my timelines – what I consider to be realistic timelines).

  29. Alejandro

    Hey man! Thanks for your obective review, I haven’t read it all at the begining, but its very realistic. So lets better wait and see what they get at the end, so we know if it’s worth it.

  30. Ed Gillmor

    Life is short; get a 4iiii and go riding now.

  31. Fred Stig

    As a slight side question… are there any pedal-based power meters that work with SPD-patterened cleats? This meter looks like a perfect compromise for me. I’m a Crank Brothers user for MTB and CX and ride almost no road (except on a CX bike with slicks). Does anybody make a pedal-based meter that can work with something other than Look-Keo cleats? I’m never going to use road shoes for any purpose so Look-Keo isn’t an option. Maybe it’s going to have to be a spindle-based meter (I am a sucker for Race Face/Easton equipment)…

  32. Mark W

    A lot of food for thought here:
    The Kick Starter is currently near 5x Goal with 28 days to run – Demand is validated and financing is assured.

    Q factor – I’m dimly aware of it’s existence but it’s not in my consciousness when swapping between bikes.
    A bit of Googling suggests that you can buy ‘knee saver’/pedal extenders that increase q factor. So you can validate whether this would make a difference to you while waiting for the product delivery or before dropping coin on it.

    I’m a bit risk averse and the target retail price still seems quite sensible. I’ll wait and see how this pans out into a delivered and tried product. When I first see people out riding with them I’ll try to catch up, ask how they are working out, and congratulate them on getting in early on a good deal.

  33. Ricardo B

    Apologies if this is a stupid question, but if purchasing a single sided power meter, which side is best to choose (given you have the choice?). Left side as its the non chain-ring side?

    Also, given the impact to Q-Factor, would singe sided here be a bad option, as it would make you slightly lop-sided?

    • Ian

      On the lop-sided question, I believe that IQ said they’ll be providing a ‘spacer’ for the other side to balance it. They also said they might sell after market spaces so in theory you could split a L&R pack into two single-sided packs (if you bought two spacers)

  34. Robert Lim

    great job on sharing the tech!

  35. Wolfgang

    As I see, you have many doubts concerning the success (in time) of the project.
    but what I have learned in my business life now for many years: never underestimate the Dutch

    • JTH

      Your post somehow reminded me of this video:

      link to youtube.com

      Would never happen in my country where just a simple road repair takes weeks if not months.

      So yeah, them being Dutch makes me also think they could actually pull this off. The schedule seems pretty tight so I guess we’ll know soon enough…

  36. Omar

    It’s silly that they invited you and then didn’t even share with you their power data or even let you ride and record the power data from the device, even if the power data has issues we all know this is a pre-production model that was tested and it’s more then likely that the final production version will iron out the issues.

    If they have done that, I would’ve backed and I’m pretty sure many others as well.

  37. atlaz

    There’s a slight issue there in that if you want to swap between bikes you need to helicoil each bike. This means that if you are someone who travels with pedals and kit and rents bikes, you’ll need the tools to remove it ASSUMING they’re using free running helicoils and they’re that easy to remove.

    • No need for that. The entire installation process is as fast as you see in the video (I think I only cut a few seconds out of it while I refocused camera). Simply bring the tiny little tool (about the size of a grape), and you’re good.

    • atlaz

      So you’re saying that yes, you do need to helicoil rentals or indeed all your bikes you intend to use it on. Not saying it’s a big deal but they do say that they will sell extra helicoil sets precisely for this reason (I asked the question).

    • Yeah, certainly if you buy extras it’ll save you a tiny bit of time. But as seen in the video we’re only talking a few seconds.

  38. jerome

    Hi Ray,

    Thanks for this report. For me it’s a wait and see thing…
    In this category, did you hear about that link to magnes.ch ?

    Cheers !

    J.

    • Yup, I actually met with them last fall in fact for a meeting*. They showed me how their tech worked, which was certainly interesting. And they did send me two brief snippets of comparative data later on (they weren’t awesome, but they weren’t horrible either – showed signs of needing some smoothing and such).

      To be honest, I can’t quite remember why I didn’t end up writing about them, but I can’t find the Indiegogo campaign at this point that they had launched (looks like it got pulled?). They may have pulled the campaign before I got a chance to write about it. Not sure.

      What I do remember from the convo (without digging up notes) is that I thought they were on the right track, but too early to launch from a schedule standpoint. Their industrial design wasn’t quite to the same point as IQ2, though, at least they could share some data.

      *https://twitter.com/magnesCH/status/905779036928045056

  39. chup

    That 16mm+ to the Q-Factor may not be favorable for crit racing, depends on BB drop and crank length.

  40. Roy

    Thinking about single sided power meters in general and the fact that there maybe 5% – 20% difference between legs. Which side should you put a single sided meter on, the leading or weaker?

    • I’d argue spend 50EUR more and get dual-sided…it’s worth it.

      Generally though, most people are in the order of 2-6% variance per side, 20% is almost unheard of (except injury recovery). And most people tend to vary how much a given leg is dominant as well through varying conditions.

  41. Pbm

    You need to wave your arm more on the next video.

  42. @csrpirata

    Great idea for us!!!!

  43. Jim

    Watching the Kickstarter for this project is amazing.
    It is like a house fire that you just can’t stop watching.
    That said, I see what Slipstream Sports did wrong in their crowd funding last year.
    They didn’t include a vaporware power meter as one of the rewards.
    I sure hope this turns out well for the huge number of people who are buying into it.
    Just my $.02.

    • Dan

      Nice to see that they’ve completed their kickstarter campaign, started an Indiegogo campaign, and still haven’t shown any data.

      I also loved their claims that they couldn’t make a functional prototype because it was too expensive to make a one off, so they’re going to do the first full run and hope they can fix everything in post.

  44. Greg Simpson

    I am very interested in this. My reason is having spent over $2000 for Garmin 2S about 4 years ago – they cost me new pods because the originals broke easily (cast alloy) and ow I find that my Durace compact crank (50:34) and 180 on my Specialised S works, the right side pod connection on the inside of the crank will not clear the chain when in the 50:11 gear. I have sheared off two connectors beofre I relaised it does not fit.

    So while there might not be many people using 180 cranks with Garmin 2S on a Tarmac, it fundamentally is $2000 wasted. So I will not be buying Garmin again – irrespective of the ‘new’ pedals. This solution allows me to at least continue using the pedals but without the power from them. So bring it on in fact I would like to trial them – one or two sided – even thought the Q factor is increased.

    • Fwiw – most of the time Garmin support (specifically, Vector support) is pretty happy to help folks out and swap out parts, even in cases of self-inflicted wounds. I’d really consider giving them a call/e-mail/something.

  45. db

    Very good review (as always), DCRainmaker. Thanks a lot. -{db}.

  46. Chris

    Do you think this will be compatible with Zwift?

    • Jorge Sousa

      “the unit will broadcast dual ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, like virtually every other power meter on the market today”.

      These are the protocols supported by Zwift and almost every telemetry application.

    • Chris

      Thanks Jorge. Makes sense although not all ant+ or BLE sensors are the same to zwift (I.e. Jetblack Whisperdrive)

  47. Andrea

    Hi,
    The KickStarter campaign ended with 3,536 backers and €932,732 pledged!!
    They have started also an Indiegogo campaign.
    I think that part of their success is also yours Ray 😉
    Is possible to ask your opinion Ray?
    Out of curiosity have you ever spoke with them?

  48. Jonathan

    Received a kickstarter email update. There was no data in the email, just production updates.
    Everything is “on schedule”.
    Plastic molds have come together.
    They are selecting electronics based on availability.
    They have created and submitted the molds for low pressure molding technique.
    Their production lines in the UK are on schedule.